บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Recapping WSU’s Strong Apple Cup Performance & Previewing Kansas State with Greg Woods

physically, even in the secondary. Like you mentioned that one catch. But outside of that, it felt like, you know, the defense was like physically up to the task. And I hope that says a lot of good things about Washington State, but also just, you know, playing a Big Ten schedule for that long. I think it might say a little bit about Washington too and what, you know. Seventeen might have been a little aggressive for them to start the year. But certainly I hope it says a lot about WSU and what what they're able to do against, you know, Kansas State next week. It will be like you said, short week. It's gonna be a grueling challenge, but we'll see. Greg: People have people have I I think like people have kind of talked about how awesome Trent Bray is as a DC, but up to the billing, game one, I mean just like Lucas Ingham: Yep. Yeah. Greg: even if we agree that like there wasn't as wide a talent gap as there we would kind of thought there would be going into this game, like the dude can coach some defense. Like maybe it's this Lucas Ingham: For sure. Greg: is the thing, like people and like maybe some people think that like, you know, he's Dame was goods or whatever after the head coaching standard Oregon State. But like I think it's totally okay to not be a head coach. Like sometimes Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: like you don't know until you get there and he got there and it wasn't the best role for him, which is like totally okay. So and the Duke co can can coach some defense. I mean to to limit them in the ways they did, I think they had they might have gotten like one first down in the first drive and Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: to to get the pressure, I think like maybe the thing that that that kind of illustrates this point the best is the way they kind of adjusted their offense after the first drive. When it became clear that Matthias declined a line of zunk were gonna cause some real problems. Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: in the fast rush department. and that became clear right away. So and as you saw the rest of the game, they started to get to kind of get the ball out quicker. They're running more up the middle to kind of get away from those two guys on the edges. They're adjusting their their game plan a little bit on offense to avoid those two badge rutchers that for for W zoo. So I think the way they got their points, the way they score, the way they operated their offense is in a lot of ways a compliment to the Wild Dude defense because of how the adjustments they had to make within The game itself. So Lucas Ingham: Well, you guys said It's like if you thought or maybe it was Canzano that said it, it's like if you expected one team to run a flea flicker, it was certainly not U Dub. You thought, you know, they're gonna be running the ball Greg: Yeah, yeah. Lucas Ingham: up the middle. And so I thought when they went to that, I was like, they really like respect this defense and feel the need to go into the bag to save a play that maybe you could have saved for a bigger game later in the year. and Greg: Totally. Lucas Ingham: I really think in for the first three quarters, like I don't really know what you could be critical of WCU's defense of. There was that one broken play, but I was rewatching it this morning and I I don't know if it's McLean or Zunk, but they forced Damond to step up and it gives the DB more time to get back into the play to tip the pass. So yeah, it was a busted Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: coverage, but they made up for it on the front end. So I thought it was Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: really impressive for for three quarters and we'll see how that continues to play out. Obviously, it's gonna be a tough we've we've, you know, chronicled the grueling stretch that they have to, but I I cannot wait to see how well they can play against Pac-12 opponents. But I think we have to talk about the Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: offense and it's gonna be, you know, the story of the season, I feel like what the ceiling of this team can be. we talked about we talked about before the season, you know, can you hit can on the the transfers and all that stuff? The offense seems to be the part where they're gonna be concerned about that. Obviously, Matt Miller's faced some criticism. Pinnock has faced some criticism. For me, I don't really know what you could ask Pinnock to do. I mean, he didn't really have a clean pocket. It's his first game, it's a tough environment. w who would you no one has to be face the blame for it, but what If there was a blame chart, which side's getting more blame? Pinnock or Matt Miller? Or the offensive line. Greg: I mean, I I don't yeah, there's just like s these things all run together in in ways that make it hard to kind of like single single one out. And not that they're immune from criticism, but I just feel like these are all kind of intertwined in so many ways. Like their offensive line had they they weren't awful, but they had a tough day. Like their left guard Kyle Martin ended up with a PFF offensive grade of like twenty nine point twenty nine point nine, a pass blocking grade of like five. Like that's just five. And I get it. First college star tough D line to go to go up against. but that kind of complicated a lot of the efforts they were trying to make. Like for instance they were trying to r r run up the middle for the first two or three quarters and I don't know how many yards they gained on those, but it couldn't have been more than like t twenty or thirty total. Lucas Ingham: No, no. Greg: like it was it was I mean, and and I think what people will will remember the most was the third and five inside shotgun run for Kirby Voorhees that went for one yard. And even Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Right. Greg: like I remember There are certain plays, like I'm sure you there's certain plays that you don't really like f realize how silly they were until after the fact. This was one where in the moment I was like, this was what are they? This is a

terrible idea. This is this is just Lucas Ingham: I know, yeah. Greg: ridiculous. So like those kinds of like inside runs early in the game, I think, fall at the feet of Matt Miller, their OCDs, because of like the time it took for him to make those adjustments. Because the thing about playing a team like Washington, like even if we agree that their talent gap is not like the Grand Canyon. There is still a p talent gap to some extent. Yeah, yeah. Lucas Ingham: Well, especially on that side of the ball. Like they're they're super talented defense. Greg: Right. So I think the thing with with the play calling and some of that kind of stuff is the time it took for them to kind of acknowledge like, okay, like we are a little bit mismatched up front and now we need to make adjustments. I th I think if he could do it again, he would kind of mix things up and go away from the inside of runs a lot earlier than he did in the actual game. So I think that that's that kind of demonstrates that that point the best just in terms of like how 'cause when they got down in the third and fourth quarter, like you saw some of those adjustments start to take place and Lucas Ingham: For sure. Greg: the fake toss I thought was incredible play call, really well faked by Tank Hawkins who was lined up at the backfield. Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: And then also a great block from Leo Polo Losti to kind of clear the way Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: on that run. So like once you started to see those kinds of like adjustments being made, you saw the often start to click a little bit. it was just that time it took to get there that I think was The biggest problem of all. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, well the well they come out of the gates with a pinnock twenty-five yard, you know, RPO, which I thought they should have gone to a lot more. Like that that play seemed to work Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: and he just seems to be better and more comfortable outside the pocket. So I don't know why. Greg: Total. Lucas Ingham: It seems like that's something that they should have tried to utilize more. I I I thought he was okay in the pocket, but and then, you know, they complete a pass right after that, right before the miss field goal. But I I honestly think and I this is what I was saying at the time, and and maybe this is They do have to adjust, but I honestly and we saw this last year with Jimmy Rogers. I think they felt that their defense was just like they didn't want to mess the game up being too aggressive. It's kind of what it felt like Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: 'cause they it's ten seven or and you know, without the two missed field goals, you're talking about it's ten six before the touchdown. So it's like they felt like their defense matched up and that's the kind of situation where you don't want to be like, Well, we got too aggressive and we made a silly decision and that cost us the game. But ultimately they put the Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: go ball on the ground twice anyway. So

what would it have really changed? Greg: Yeah, and I don't like I don't know. It's such a fine line and between the coaches thinking like how much w you know what are the risks or what risks are we willing to take and what does that say about 'cause they I I think that like the thing you have to remember is that like the coaches are not thinking about these these game plans the same way that like people like you and I are. Like I like we're more realistic about like okay, like they're not probably gonna be able to move bodies up front, but Th that their entire job is to make that happen. You know what I mean? Like they're paid oodles of money to like find ways to make that happen. So like I think there is like part of their their thinking that's like, okay, like we should be able to do this because that's our expectation and we have the guys, whatever. After after a while you have to realize that that's like not really the case and then you have to let that kind of inform the adjustments you make. Because I thought when they got it out of the pocket, like you said, their offense looked much better. not only because I think Pennick is more mobile anyway, but like this sounds kind of reductive, and I don't mean this as like a a derogatory, but like he's not a very big big quarterback. I mean he's he's enlisted as six foot and I having been next to him, that's a little generous. Lucas Ingham: No. Right. Greg: so I don't mean I dcause I've there have been plenty of great quarterbacks that are short. I mean, Drew Brees comes to mind, but I mean like at a certain point There is the physical aspect of like the physical stature that kind of creates some problems sometimes. so I think I thought when they got out of the pocket and rolled him out and got him better literal, just literal sight lines down the field, things started to kind of shake their way. So I think that that again, like you won't be facing the same kind of like size mismatches in the in the future games that'll kind of force those adja those adjustments. But while they have to play the likes of UW and K State and Arizona, like, not a bad idea at all. So that's kind of the way I see that. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, and I think Jamie made a great point on on your guys' podcast about like, you know, the running game wasn't great, but it also wasn't like atrocious. It's a lot of it looked better than it did against Idaho last season, and you're playing a much different caliber opponent. So I I there's not Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: for me as much reason to be concerned there if they're playing the best defense they're gonna play all year. I did want to get your thought on the fumble where they got the snap off and then they came back and gave them the timeout from your Greg: yeah. Lucas Ingham: perspective. Was that kind of weird timing or like that seemed like a Greg: I've never s Lucas Ingham: That seemed weird. Yeah. Greg: seen it happen that way. Like I've seen I mean we all seen I be like we've all seen plays get blown dead right before they snap it 'cause they called a timeout. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: But to let the entire play happen and then like, we call it a timeout, like I've never Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: seen a whole play unfold and then get called bat because of the timeout. So that was that was kinda weird. I mean, I guess we have to roll with the explanation that they that they gave in terms of the timeout getting called, but Lucas Ingham: Well, do we? I mean the Mac is threatening action against the Big Ten for the Michigan thing. So we can go that route if we want to. Yeah. No, I just wanted to Greg: Take a take him to take him to court. Take him to court. Lucas Ingham: get your opinion on that because I obviously, you know, I'm sitting there and all my cougar stuff and I'm like, that seems a little fishy, but it it yeah. He did fumble Greg: No, that was that was stran I mean that th that one Lucas Ingham: though, to be fair. Greg: to totally, totally like that like that much is not up for debate. It's just like the timing of like letting the play go through. That one and then and maybe you had a better view at in the stands or on TV or whatever, but the other one that I thought was a little bit strange was the McLean roughing the passer. Where Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: I guess the only explanation you could come up with and this and maybe this is what they saw, is that he like kinda what's the word? Like kinda speared him with his helmet or laid it on him too forcefully or hard. but in terms of like it wasn't like he got there like a an hour late and you know what I mean? Like that I guess that that's the only explanation. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, I think I think trying to be unbiased, it's kinda just the way it's called now. Like it looks like he put its Greg: Yeah, totally. Lucas Ingham: his body weight on him, but he kinda like lands to the side, like he puts his hands down so he doesn't put his like Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: so I think he made a smart play. And it's also so unfortunate for him because he's already in the process of making the tackle with his head down and Damon still has the ball. So it's like, well, he doesn't Greg: Right. Right. Lucas Ingham: know the bond like for all he knows he could be forcing a fumble. So it's it's just that was Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: unfortunate, but it that seems like it's that's pretty standard, like what the officials call. these days. And I know people were Greg: There's Lucas Ingham: mad about some of the PIs and stuff. I didn't I think those are just so fifty fifty it's hard to Greg: So many so many of like the weird calls that like people determine are like they hate our team, whatever, like it's possible that it's possible that the officials themselves think it's a silly call. Well, it's the rule. You know what I mean? Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Right. Greg: Like they're told to call it and you know, that's their job. So hate on hate on hate on the rule. Lucas Ingham:

And they were packed, they were packed 12 officials too. So it's not like you can't be Greg: yeah. Lucas Ingham: can't be can't be too mad about it. But I do want to circle back to Greg: Just yeah. Lucas Ingham: Pinnock before we move on to Kansas State. I really thought, other than the interception, I I think early on, first of all, people have to remember he's still a young quarterback. This isn't a guy who like had three years of experience at the FCS level. He had one. I think early Greg: Mm. Lucas Ingham: on he maybe had the tendency to scramble out of the pocket, which a lot of running quarterbacks struggle with. They want to go too early. but I thought when he he did set in his set his feet and make a pocket pass. He had a really nice slant to blood right before the touchdown, early on. He had that one right after he had the scramble. And you can see how dynamic he is running. I think he's 16 for 25 and there's two drops by the running backs in the flats and then the tip ball for Kirby Voorhees. So he's close to 70% passing percentage with with the offensive line, with the circumstances. I really I I did nothing about that game did I watch and I go, gosh, Caden Pinnock isn't going to be able to, you know, Get like I I I did not see him as an issue really at all, other than the one interception. Greg: Yeah, I I was like this is gonna sound like a backhand a compliment, but I was like pleasantly surprised by like the game he that he turned in. 'Cause based Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: on some of like the decisions he was making during fall camp and some of that, I'm like, huh, this might kinda kinda kinda get kinda go south pretty quickly against at least a against UWS defense. But but yeah, I mean like the one interception goes off the Kirby Voorhees hands and at in that case we're only talking about one interception and then the one I think you also mentioned the The drop by Daniel Blood on the on the screen pass. And even he, I mean, yesterday was he he talked on Monday and even he admitted like yeah, that was that really hurt us on on first down. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: so yeah, I just like I don't know, like I think he played a pretty good game considering the circumstances. I do agree that on a few like he I think he ran himself into at least one sack, just kinda getting getting going too Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: early, or kinda just scrambling when the pocket was pretty clean, all things considered. So I think those are are things that he can definitely kind of look to to build on and improve on. there's just so much. Like I think for the Kooks overall, there's just like so much that you were never really going to know about your team until you played a game. Like so much of like and and and this goes for every team, but I mean like so much of the way you come away from fall camp thinking about your team is just based on how they go you perform against your own defense. So like this was al there was always going to be a learning curve

for these guys, especially with the amount of new players that you have and a new O C and a new co like there's just so many you know different moving parts and I get that there's that's the case for a lot of teams across the country, but for these guys that on top of what was there was a talent gap obviously like Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: I thought he played a pretty decent game. I mean I I think I was more impressed, honestly not maybe maybe not more impressed, but to lead the team with sixty one wrestling yards I thought was Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: was solid too. I mean I I think they could have done did have done him a few More favors by getting into the bag a little more, being a little bit more what's the word? Like kind of more just just more exciting with with the play calls. I thought the fake toss to Hawkins, like I mentioned earlier, was awesome. And Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: the truth I mean, in my opinion, like I know they were right there, but to really put yourself in a spot to be the team, like you d you gotta take more risks on offense to kind of open the playbook a little more. and maybe if they do that, we're talking about a different game or anything like that. So like I think if there was one criticism of of him, it wouldn't really be like of him, it would just be more about like the situations that he was put into between the offensive line and the play con and things like that. Like it I think week two you will see a much different offensive approach than than what you saw in week one. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Yeah. And I just thought like there's been when I'm watching somebody who I feel like maybe isn't supposed to be the quarterback, I'm like scared every time they drop back. I didn't really feel that with him. Like the both interceptions Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: are forced, like it hits his arm, and then the second one is they're down two scores and he's trying to force a ball in and it gets tipped. I I I didn't feel like when his throws were in the air, I wasn't like as a fan, I wasn't like, my gosh, like I'm scared he's gonna throw an interception or make a wrong decision. I thought the decision making was pretty strong. I didn't feel like you put the Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: ball in harm's way like very often. And so when you when you look at a game like this, you mentioned being more aggressive. I thought like if they had gotten like maybe two explosives the whole game, I thought they maybe could have won. Like they just needed to flip the field Greg: Mm. Lucas Ingham: twice. Like they had other than Pinnock's twenty five yard run, did they I don't know if they had a explosive play. Greg: They had a long touchdown or not touchdown. They had a long pass to Daniel Blood. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: I think that was on the touchdown drive, I wanna say. That that might not be right. But the point is that like it's in their it's in their capabilities. Like this is not we're Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: not talking about

something that's like outside of what they're able to do. Like they Lucas Ingham: For sure. Greg: they they have the capabilities to do that. It's just doing it and having the confidence and comfortability to go out and give it a shot. So Lucas Ingham: Yeah, and I thought like as far as the game plan goes and like preparedness, like I was telling like my map to success. Were you here in twenty two when they played out Wisconsin or was the year before you got here? Greg: No, that was the one year before I got here, yeah. Lucas Ingham: S so I mean that was Cam Ward's third game and he like kind of struggled against Idaho or maybe it was his second and he wasn't like he threw two picks and I was like just kind of an ugly game and they just found a way with turnovers and so my whole thing Greg: Mm. Lucas Ingham: was you know you gotta win the turnover battle or at least be even and they didn't and so they lost. I thought had you been two two in turnovers and they had a chance for a pick and a fumble, maybe you could have flipped the game that way. But for that to be the margin, I think they should feel really good about. I think they should feel good about that they were that close into a game and you have to like people expect so much of teams because it's like everyone wants to succeed right away now. It's it's a first time head coach, it's a young Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: first time offensive coordinator. Pinnock may see in his first FPS start. Like I know we played there last year, but it that's just a lot to ask of them in one week. And so given all the circumstances, I I was really, really pleasantly surprised. I thought it could could Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: get ugly, honestly, before I I got into the game. Greg: I mean the last ten years, Cougar fans have kind of been spoiled by the success that this program has enjoyed. I mean, I just think there's like an expectation, and rightfully so, to win, 'cause that's kind of the standard that's been set the last decade or so. but you see like kind of the other side of of how things could go and it's not always guaranteed that you're gonna go to a bowl. I mean that's I know I mean, you saw it in twenty three, just like how how it can go south sometime. So Lucas Ingham: yeah. Greg: So point Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: is that like, you know, as rightful as it might be to have this standard of success and they've they certainly earn that, it's also a reminder that like things can change. I'm not saying they're gonna have a bad season, but like just a reminder to kind of like be appreciative of of of how well they've done the last ten years so ten years or so. Lucas Ingham: For sure. And I think their defense, you know, if it's really this strong, you know, it's just one week. But I think against, you know, the the Pac twelve teams should put it a keep in, you know, almost every game, w regardless of what the progression of the offense is. But let's talk Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: a little bit about next week. You were heading down to your alma mater, Kansas State. You're heading down early. I know you're excited about it. Kansas Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: State seventy to three against Nichols last week. Not really seventy one to three against Nichols last week. Greg: Seventy one three. Don't don't shortchange him. Lucas Ingham: Not a lot, not a lot to glean from the game, not a lot you can take from the tape, but Avery Johnson's been around for three years now. Not the most popular quarterback in the world, but certainly talented. What can Cougar fans expect and what can you expect from this WCU defense trying to stop this Kansas State offense? Greg: Yeah, I mean I think the quarterback, like defending the quarterback will be like similar in the same mold in the in the sense of like he's a mobile quarterback, he can hurt you all kinds of ways. I think and Jamie and I agreed on this, like Damond Williams is is more of an accurate passer than I think Avery Johnson. I mean, he has a career percentage of like seventy percent on his his passes, so like unreal. Lucas Ingham: Crazy. Yeah. Greg: and Avery, like, I don't know, like I don't get all the chances to watch the game, so like there's a lot of Cougar fans who might even know more about them than I do, to be honest. But like just kind of like tracking the program the last few years is kind of keeping up to to different extents. Like there's been a sense that like he's just kind of been like his game has kind of been what's the word? Like kind of kind of cornered or kind of just like hampered by different OCs they've had in the last few years. Like sometimes Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: they tried to make him into so much of a thrower that he's been scared to use his legs and vice versa. So this he's I think he's kind of been pulled in a lot of different directions his last couple of years, which it's easy to get into a head of of a quarterback that that that's young like him. So I think that that's like part of the calculus that you have to kind of think about when you think about defending a guy like that, because now their head coach is an offensive minded guy and Colin Klein, who was a quarterback at K State, was awesome, finished third in the Heisman voting that year. in twenty twelve, which is the same year that actually Kirby Moore was playing at Voice State. one of the years they overlapped. So I think that's kind of a funny little subplot. but anyway, I the like the point is that like I think now they have this coaching staff in place that they're hoping we'll kind of get the most out of him and kind of get him back to his roots as not just a running quarterback and not just a throwing quarterback, but kind of a guy that can hurt you with both both both fast faces of his game. So I think that's kind of the book on on Avery. I think the other thing that you have to kinda look out for with these guys is kind of is how they use tight ends. Like I this has like kinda gone understated, I

think, as this game kinda comes around. But like historically as a program, they have been awesome with their uses of tight ends and they've th they've had lots of plays where they use this like tight end pop pass where they died tight ends kinda like fixed blocking and then this is a big thing in Colin Klein's years, but he would kind of fake like he was rushing and then pop it out to a tight end and Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: Even and that was I know I'm talking kind of like in general specifics here, but like Colin Klein is like a case of Wildcat. Like he was he Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: played there, he's a coach there, he's now the head coach. Big time mentor of his is is Bill Snyder, who the freaking stadium is named after. So Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: like you see the all the through lines throughout all the years, and I think that's even informative of a new team like we have here today. and then let's I mean they and even on their game against Nichols the other day, they used a a bunch of two tight end sets between like Garrett Oakley And Lincoln Kier, who was a five star guy who was wooed by Oregon a couple of years ago, but still ended up signing with K State. So that was Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: that was cool to see. But I just think there's just a lot of to borrow with Jake Dicker phrase, a lot of like multiple sets they can go to, a lot of different like variability and kind of the offensive looks that they'll give you. So between that and Rodney Fields and Joe Jackson's at running back, they have a lot of talent on offense. So definitely a lot to keep track of on defense. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, so it y you look at it and kind of from like a a bird's eye view perspective, you're like Kansas State picked to finish like between fourth and seventh in the Big Twelve, kinda upper half, like a little bit of upside there compared to a Washington team with more resources, you know, picked to finish sixth in the Big Ten. E theoretically it should be, you know, more competitive on paper. The spread reflects that a little bit. But it seems like honestly they they might have a little bit more to go to on offense. You mentioned the running backs, Is there anything to and I you know this you might not be able to speak to this greatly, but they had to replace a a large portion of their offensive line. Is that something that WCU can maybe look to exploit here? What it w which was what appears to be, excuse me, a really strong WCU defensive line. Greg: Yeah, I mean I like their starting left tackle was gonna be John Pastor, who was a first team preseason all big twelve selection. Serious you lose a guy like that, I mean that's a giant hole, especially at the tackle Lucas Ingham: Right. Yeah. Greg: spot. espe and especially when you think about who the Kooks have at D end between McLean Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: and Zunk. So that on top of George Fitzpatrick, who was a transfer from from Ohio State, is also out for the season. So like two I mean, not not so insignificant holes on their offensive line, which I think really ch sh have to color the way you think about this game, not just for the Kooks, but their season as a whole. So and we both agree that like one of the top strength of this Kougar defense is their DNs. Like between McLean and Zung. I mean we just talked about how quickly U Dub had to pivot their game plan once they realized like, these guys are gonna gonna be a problem up front. Lucas Ingham: Right. Greg: So you you give you give those guys an offensive line that still talented, still solid, but doesn't have the guys they wanted up front, then you kind of start to see how they could kind of affect their game plan on offense, it'll just be a matter of like can they force K State to make enough adjustments and the way that you dub did and kind of start to get them out of their game plan and just kind of because that I think like throughout this kook season like those two guys are gonna cover a lot of a a a lot of games and if they're on they can change a game like like that. And if not, you know, things can can go south in my opinion. So definitely Lucas Ingham: For sure. Greg: the same definitely the case here on Here on Saturday. Lucas Ingham: And and on offense, you know, it it doesn't Kansas State, you know, had to go to the portal for almost their entire defense. They bring in a really talented guy and Wendell Gregory, but the synopsis that I read, and I'm not claiming to be an expert, said that if anything's gonna hold Kansas State back from being an up upper echelon Big 12 team, it's gonna be the d defensive side of the ball. and you're going from playing a what appears to be a pretty elite Big Ten defense. I mean, they were top fifteen last year, they have a really j legit front seven, a really strong secondary. It feels like it's gonna be a big gap between what you played last week and what you played this week. Is there gonna be an opportunity? We talked about WCU being more inventive, but what should they just have more success? Just straight up, you know, being able to run the ball, being able to put the ball in the air, pinnick have more time. It feels like it should theoretically, you know, be easier sledding if it's still a power four opponent. Greg: Yeah, I think it'll a a big part of this will kind of be what we mentioned earlier, just like how quickly like one, will they need to make adjustments and two, how quickly can they do that? Because like I Lucas Ingham: Right. Greg: said, like if they if they had been quicker to do that against you dub, like we're maybe talking about a different different outcome. So, Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Greg: you think if I I think if they g go into this game with that mindset, I think that'll be far and away the biggest key to the game. I also think that How you mentioned Wendell Gregory, how he does against W Such Tackles and Ashton Tripp and Johnny Lester was gonna be Lucas Ingham: Yeah, I was just gonna ask.

Yeah. Greg: that's a huge, huge, huge part of this game because Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: Ashton Tripp, I I he I think he he was their best pass blocker. At least again, I just use PFF for offensive line stuff because I'm like, I'm not an O line coach. It's so hard to evaluate that stuff. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. It's hard to yeah. Yeah. Greg: But but he he graded out their best as their best pass blocker, and I think he might have did not allow any pressures. so Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: he was their best offensive lineman. But you think about their other offensive tackle and Johnny Lester, and that was his first game starting at tackle. He kind of flipped there, I I think of the old miss game last year when there was an injury when Hillborne was out. And he's he's kinda flipped there off and on. but it's a big change going from left guard, which he's used to playing, to right tackle against power for edge rusher. So like I think that like so much of this game will kind of be informed by like, does Pinnock have time? Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. No, it's I think it's super true, yeah. Greg: Like know that's like kinda reductive and it goes for every game, but I mean like but like for again a a guy that like we both agree had a had a solid game all things considered against U Dub, like i going into like these these raucous environments, K State sells out I it's a l it's a little bit of a smaller environment than Husky Stadium, but it's packed I mean every Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: year, every game. So like that kind of environment i it is is tough. It's it's gonna be loud. The and on top of all this, they're not gonna have Tony Freeman, who is their best receiver. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: Which complicates things. I we should have brought that up earlier, honestly, 'cause that that's a big, big loss. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to get your take on how big a loss it is. Cause I I think Tony's awesome. I honestly think it's maybe a bigger loss for the return game than if anything else, which was just a disaster on Sunday. for both Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: teams, honestly. I mean, both teams really had an awful special teams day. But I you Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Lucas Ingham: know, Tony Freeman's a great player in and hope I I really do hope. I mean it's a short injury and and he's back, but it do you think there is I g I guess this is the question. Do you think there's that big a gap between him and the next guy up? Because to me, looking at it. If Tony Freeman is the difference between you scoring ten points and winning the Apple Cup, then that maybe just says more about your team in general than it does about losing Tony Freeman. Greg: Sure. I think the big thing with him is that he's like played college football before. Like a lot of their other receivers, Lucas Ingham: Yeah, experience, yeah. Greg: like I and and I know this is a little bit I think this is a little bit overstated in this day and age, but you have a guy like that that's played at Old

Man's, played at at Virginia, has played in Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: in Apple Cup before at you know two years ago. I I I think it I think it's easy to kind of overlook him because the guy's like 5 8, wait a whatever, but like Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: ha solid hands has been there before and I think it's more polished as a receiver. Like I think that they Lucas Ingham: Yeah, that's fair. Greg: had they they have great talent and Daniel Blood and Darius Clemens and guys like that, but he Tony Freeman is a seasoned polished receiver who Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: has sharpened his game as just a wide receiver. Whereas nothing and I'm not thinking anything I'm not taking anything away from Clemens and Blood, they just don't have the reps that that that Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: that Freeman has. So I I think in that way that that that's kind of where that loss hurts. But I I do also agree that that If it's not a bigger loss in the return game, like it's really close because of Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: how sure handed he is and how shaky Jalen Thomas and Thank Hawkins looked in that department too. So like yeah. Lucas Ingham: Well, and he's electric returning too. It's not just that he's sure handed. I mean, he can really flip the field sometimes. But it's as Greg: Totally. Lucas Ingham: it from a receiver perspective, and this is this goes back to projecting things that you know we can't, you know, you never know until you see it actually happen. But Tink Hawkins kind of profiles similarly to Tony Freeman as a potential receiver if he can pan out, and he's certainly gonna get the opportunity now that Tony Freeman's out. Greg: Yeah, like that that was kind of the thing that I was curious about going into fall camp. I'm like, if Tank Hawkins turns out to be awesome, like there might not be a huge drop off between the two guys because of how similar their games are. the difference is, like I said, like h Tank has played like two or like I d I I don't know, it's five or six college games. Like it's it's not a lot of experience. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, no it's a big difference. Greg: so I think the but I I think like he Tank Hawkins is another example of a guy that kind of illustrates what we think will be the biggest effort in the season where it's like if he turns out to be awesome, they could be incredible as an offense. And if not, it's like, well, things could go a little bit south. but they're very similar receivers, both both speedy. H Hawkins I think has this like we this like weird bad habit of like catching the ball with his chest as opposed to with his hands, Lucas Ingham: Interesting. Greg: which I noticed mostly in fall camp. which is not what you're taught, I I don't think. So Lucas Ingham: No, no, no. Greg: I think that like if if there's anything that like may if there's anything that like kinda goes south in this game, maybe it comes from that. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: but I d like in terms of potential, I don't think there's like such an enormous gap that Freeman ends up being the difference in a couple scores, if that makes sense. Lucas Ingham: No, you're right. I shouldn't diminish the experience of him. And I'm sure they like have a lot of like maybe some of the gadget plays that they wanted to go to were Tony Freeman plays and they weren't prepared to which Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: is another problem. I mean, they should be ready to run that play with for anybody, but it maybe Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: maybe they had a couple shot plays they wanted to take to Tony Freeman. That's what I thought was weird about the game plan is it felt like I don't think like the throw was there for Pennick to take a deep shot. Like I don't did he attempt Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: to pass over 30 yards? I didn't even feel like they ran a route like that. Greg: I think the one to plug that I mentioned a second ago was like thirty two but Lucas Ingham: Okay. Greg: that might have been the only like thirtieth pass yard play. And it was like kind of an acrobatic yeah, it wasn't like drawn up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lucas Ingham: where he he scrambled out and threw it down the sideline, then he was there. But that was kind of a broken play, right? Yeah. Yeah, I didn't feel like they called, okay, here's our play action, we're gonna get a shot play. I think mainly because they thought they didn't have the time. So I'll be interested Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: to see if this week with maybe, you know, you feel better about the offensive line, he has more time. Do they maybe call some of those plays where it's like, okay, here's Tank Hawkins on a post. Let's just take the shot Greg: Hm. Lucas Ingham: and if they pick it off on the five, then who cares? But I did I didn't feel like they Greg: It's an arm pine, yeah. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, I didn't feel like they ran any of those plays, but mainly because the offensive line wasn't holding up. One to ten, how worried Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: would you be about the offensive line? Greg: Offensive line. Let's see. I mean it's so hard to judge against a a defense like that. I Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: would give it like maybe a a five or a six with the potential for it to get higher depending on how Lucas Ingham: Worse. Yeah. Greg: this game goes. just because like it's it's so many I mean it was Kyle Martin's first first first start, Noah Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: Dunham's first well maybe it's not his first start, but first, you know, as a starter's first start. And then Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: Johnny Lecher's first start at right tackle, And then there's one other than a Nick Batkin's first started at at right guard. So I d I I think if we like in a much broader sense, a lot of the conclusions that we'll make about this team won't really happen until they get to Pac-Twel play. Yeah, Lucas Ingham: Yeah, that you just can't. It's so hard to evaluate right now. Greg: for sure. But I do think that there are still lessons to be learned and things to be

going from how these first games go. And if we g if we get through even a few games of of these, you know, UWK State, Arizona, like if their offensive line turns out to be a real what's the word? A big problem or a big liability of then like something to explore there for sure. So I I would say like five Lucas Ingham: Mm. Greg: or six and it could get higher depending on how these next games go. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, I I agree. I I just think it's gonna be so hard. I think honestly, really excited to be in Pullman for the Duquesne game just to see because I'm kind of expecting that to just be like, you know, you would hope that this game that they can find a way to win regardless of how well they play. But I just I'm interested Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: to see if like, wow, like the defense is really game wrecking against a lesser opponent. And obviously, you know, Duquesne's not a Pac twelve team, but I think it should show you more than maybe the first two games, just with the level of competition, like wow, like Pinick really is like a level above these guys. Like I think that will be a super telling game to see, like kind of where we stand. And it still we won't know really until we get through Fresno State, I don't think, what where Greg: I Yeah. Lucas Ingham: where they stand, but it'll maybe give you a little bit more of an eye of like, hey, these guys are, you know, they have more talent than maybe the UW game gave them credit for. Greg: I I I I agree. I think it kinda runs the same risk as the U Dove game, but just in the opposite direction, where it's like how much can you it's like Gay State beat Nichols by sixty eight. I mean like, you know, you're supposed to be, you know, three legs up on these guys. And if you are, it's like, well, that's the way it's supposed to go. And if you're not, it's Lucas Ingham: For sure. Greg: like, this this could be bad. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: So but no, I think it'll be more informative for sure than 'cause I think they're I guess it depends on like how co if you think they're cultured to the likes of Washington or if they're close to the likes of Duquesne. Which like I think Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: it's I think it's the former, but I guess we have to see see how it goes. Yeah. Lucas Ingham: I think so too. Well, I think especially like, you know, if if Uda doesn't have Damon Williams, I don't think they're winning that football game. But I mean they pay him that money to be there and Yeah, exactly. That no I know. That sounds like a stup that sounds like a really stupid hypothetical. Well, point being it's not like, yeah. Greg: But they do. Yeah. If they don't if they don't have their best player, they don't win the game. Yeah. Lucas Ingham: I mean the quarterback's so important, that's kind of that's kind of unfair. But it it just didn't feel like They had in l third and longs and it came Greg: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lucas Ingham: up to Demon making like you mentioned the play where the three guys missed the tackle. And it's it's those kind of plays that are the margin and and that's really thin. I mean, couple of bounces of the ball differently, it feels like and and maybe you dub, you know, didn't Greg: I yeah. Lucas Ingham: play up to their standard, but it it feels like they're closer to that certainly than they are the last. Greg: I think I think what you're trying I th I think what you were saying is if they were had if they had a little bit less talented of a quarterback, then it's a different different outcome. Like obviously they don't have the quarterback. Yeah, yeah, they yeah, they do. Lucas Ingham: Yes, yes. But they do. Yeah. Greg: Like I like yeah, I mean it's it's so tempting a as a fan to like, Well, if this was not the case and dah da da da da da well it's like, Well, it is and that's you know what I mean so Lucas Ingham: Right. Yeah, and I don't mean that to say like change the result of the game and it's not like, I thought WCU deserved a win. I'm not trying to get into that territory. I'm just trying to outline Greg: Mm. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Lucas Ingham: the map of like, like WCU isn't as, you know, far away as the Greg: Where are they at? Lucas Ingham: powers that be make you want to believe. And you see it with the games Greg: Right. Lucas Ingham: last year, Ole Miss Virginia, and then UMass beating the hell out of Rutgers, and then you Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: have the Western Michigan, Michigan thing. I just think there's this broad picture that like, like these teams can't compete physically and Maybe yeah, it doesn't ha it didn't happen on both sides of the ball for WSU, but they can at least, you know, formulate how it, you know, you gotta play all three phases. And so I thought they Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: matched up in at least two out of the three. But anyway, we got out of track. We got back on the Apple Cup, back to Kansas State. Tell us a little Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: bit about the culture there. You mentioned the sellout. You know, Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: the Apple Cup is a hard environment, but there's also a lot of WSU fans there. There won't be as many in Kansas State. That'll be different. It is early in the morning. What's the culture like at Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: Kansas State? I mean, is that still gonna be packed out, student section. Greg: I mean, every Lucas Ingham: Live that early in the morning. Greg: K State football is everything to people west of Manhattan and west, pretty much. You get a little bit closer than to Lawrence, Topeka, it's more KU and Kansas City stuff, but w all of western Kansas up to Manhattan and a little bit east, it's everybody everybody freaking loves K State football. Like it's a big thing. People travel from all corners of the state to to come to these games and they've sold out every game for I mean, I'd have to look it up, a lot of years, going back to even my time there probably. So Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Greg: it's it's never a question of

like what people show up. Like it's it's consistent for sure. and then I I I mentioned earlier just like how how clear a through line there is from like Bill Snyder, who's literally statue is outside of the stadium, the stadium's named after him, to Colin Klein, to all these guys. I mean, they have a receiver named Sterling Lockett, who is a younger brother of Tyler Lockett, who I know Seahawks fans will love him. He hasn't really Lucas Ingham: Ha ha Greg: panned out as as well as Tyler and his older brothers have, but The point is you see all these different kind of like through lines of common denominators through different areas of the program. So I think I think that's number one. I think yeah, I mean I I I I remember like in my time there, there's a little bit of the same problem that Wazoo has where it's like students leaving early and like what is that gonna but I think yeah, that's Lucas Ingham: I think that happens everywhere is the the secret, yeah. Greg: that's just kind of the way it goes. I do think there is something to be said for the the fact that the game is at nine AM Pacific time. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: Like, because it's one thing, like most of us are up at nine in the morning, but for th they get there what, like two hours before to stretch and get warmed Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: up and then you're thinking about how early they'll have to be up just to be awake and get on the bus and do all those kinds of things Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: and get cleaned up. Like we you're talking about being up at probably like five or six AM according to your your body clock. So like Lucas Ingham: Right. Greg: that is a pretty big difference I think to keep in mind. I'm not saying that'll like completely throw them off, but it's a lot different playing a game at one PM your body clock time to nine Lucas Ingham: For sure. Greg: AM. So I I do I I really do think that that's like a a complicating thing for them, on top of the fact that they played on a Sunday and now you're flying out to Manhattan like five days later, so Lucas Ingham: Are they traveling do they travel on Thursday or do they travel on Friday? Do you know? Greg: I believe still on Friday. so you're no yeah. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. I'm comparing it with the Rams going to Australia twenty four hours before the game. That's a little more extreme, but Greg: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're talking about I mean, they I'm sure they flew back to Plummet Sunday night or yeah, Sunday night, and then you get Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and I'm sure they'll leave like Friday morning or something like that. So Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: quick turnaround, early game. I power four team on the road. I mean there there's a lot that's kind of stacked against them. It's not impossible, but there's just a lot that is not going in their favor. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Certainly certainly is, but also I draw some comparisons, two comparisons to last season in two games that I don't think any WSU fan

expected to be in was the Ole Miss and their Virginia. And the Olmus, I Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: believe, was a 9 a.m. Pacific kick. So I don't know what their travel arrangement was Greg: Yeah, you're right. Lucas Ingham: for that. So but they were kind of helped in that in a way because it's like Ole Miss wasn't a full atmosphere, student section wasn't full, and that certainly played in WSU's favor with all the Cougar fans there. But certainly something to think about, you it that That game didn't pan out certainly where we thought it did, where we thought that would be a factor. And then the second one is they go to Virginia just the very next week, and you're like two trips to the East Coast back to back weeks. You've talked a lot about the short week, and I and I don't think anything you're saying is unfair at all. But it's just Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: it goes to show like how times like we can do all this stuff and then none of it ends up mattering. Cause it's like, I'm like, they're going to Virginia back to back weeks, Greg: No, I know. Lucas Ingham: like there's no way. East Coast trip, like they're just gonna be so gassed. And then they play well enough to win. And we, you know, we know that's the game they really kicked, but it's like, gosh, Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: like. they really put on a strong performance both those weeks. This is a different team, but those are two games that Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: come to mind that I'm like, like sixteen and a half based off the way they played last week seems a little tough to me, but I mean I just know that's the Greg: Mm. Lucas Ingham: way it goes. Greg: I mean, I I will always say that like, as as well informed as people like you and I try to be, like, we're not in the building. Like we're not we're not the players, Lucas Ingham: Course not. Greg: we're not the coaches. Like they think about things way differently than than people like you and I ever will. And whether that's a good or bad thing, who knows? I'm sure it changes. But I do think it's a window into just like how differently they approach things as opposed to just like regular regular Joes like you and me. So Lucas Ingham: Yeah. So before you before the season started, you and Jamie kind of did your prediction broadcast. I think you did what was the name of the bit you did about like this could happen, Greg: we did the Lucas Ingham: this would happen, and this is preposterous. Was that was it how it went? Yeah. And so Greg: Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lucas Ingham: you said, I did you land on it was preposterous that they would lose all three, or or no, or the like that they would win one of the games. I don't remember exactly how the phrasing of it was. Greg: I I think I said they will come out of that stretch one and three. I think I said that would happen. Lucas Ingham: One and three. So now based off what you've seen, is it reasonable to expect that they could win one of these next two games? Especially Arizona

at home feels pretty gettable. Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: We Kansas State's kind of just such a wild card. There's no way to evaluate their game. Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: but it feels like after week one, like there's so man like we're removing all the context just with the teams on the field. It feels like one of those two games is gettable. Greg: I feel a little bit better about their chances to beat K State than I did before the Apple Cup. That's for sure. Lucas Ingham: Okay. Yeah. Greg: it's not like if I had to like rate I'm s I f I would say I probably feel like fifteen, ten, fifteen, twenty percent better about their chances to beat them than I did before the game. Lucas Ingham: Okay, we'll take it. Greg: yeah, yeah. I just 'cause I think that like even though they played a lot better than we expected them to, it's still a lot of the same dynamics going on with the Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: team they have and challenges that that they're facing. So But I I I do think that like with if they played similarly on defense, not only in in this game, but throughout the season, like they're gonna have a lot of chances to win games that they might not have had that or at least we didn't we not we would not think they would have before the season. So I think that's that's kinda what what kinda drives that that thinking for me is just kinda seeing how well they manage things on defense and and and and how even though I expected McLean and Zung to be awesome, like To make the impact they did as quickly as they did against the opponent they did, I think says a lot about like how how high this defense can go for sure. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, and we've talked about that ceiling, and obviously, like if they're gonna hit their true ceiling, the offense needs to come along. And I I think it's reasonable to expect that they're gonna be better than they were against Washington, like for all the reasons that we've chronicled, even if they don't peek into this amazing offense that's scoring all these points, like certainly they're gonna be able to be more effective, especially running the ball and, you know, protecting the Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: quarterback against lesser opponents. But you see a team like San Diego State last year who really struggled at quarterback go through the Mountain West schedule and find nine wins across the way. These first four games, like you said, kind of evaluation, you kind of just have to toss out of the window. When they do get into conference play, it kind of feels like this defense could be the best defense in the conference, w the second best defense in the conference behind Boise State. You know, it c it feels like they could be making a pretty solid run if they can keep the the motivation and the vibes going. Greg: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's certainly possible. I like I don't want to put it out the window. I 'cause their defensive line is w was gonna be their strength. I the thing that I keep coming back to is that they were like at b at like even at the positions where we expected them to be good, they were even better than I expected them to be even in those Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: spots in the Apple Cup. So if there's any reason I think to believe in them in a way that we didn't earlier, it's for that reason, just because of like how solid How how awesome they seem to be even in the spots that we thought they would be great. The only thing I think that if there's anything that could kind of hold them back, it's like some of the secondary stuff. Jaleel Tucker got like a little bit banged up in the Apple Cup. He's he's he he's good to go. Lucas Ingham: Interesting. Okay. Greg: but they're they're a little bit thin in those spots and like I'm not like predicting an injury Yeah, Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Attrition could be tough, right. Greg: like it's it's a grueling schedule and like not only for these first three out of these first four games but throughout a whole entire Pac twelve schedule to keep that up is like is a tough, tough I we just thinking about like like you and me love the NBA playoffs, like the t the team that wins the the championship is not always the best team. It's the team that gets there with being the healthiest. Exactly. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, it's a team of the healthiest. Yeah. Greg: So I think that'll be just as key for them as as playing well, honestly. but if things Lucas Ingham: Right. Greg: break Ryan, I could see them being like top two, top three defense in the league for sure. Lucas Ingham: Yeah, I mean, you and Jamie were talking about like could they match the defensive production from last season? It kind of feels like they have a chance to as crazy as that is, as good as that defense was. Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: But I mean, I know it's just one game, so we're over projecting a lot, but for you to face the best, you know, theoretically the best quarterback you're gonna face the entire season in the best offensive line and to put up that kind of performance feels like a really something that you can build off of. And I'm sure Kirby Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: Moore with all the coach speak that I know you love is gonna say that these these first four games are an opportunity to test yourself against the best of the best before playing the pack twelve. So I'm hoping that can be an advantage that they take into conference play. Greg: My Kirby's birthday was a few weeks ago and my Lucas Ingham: Ha ha. Greg: birthday list for him is to get a little more imaginative and ex expressive in these in these press settings. for sure, for sure. Lucas Ingham: I think he'll get there. I think he'll get there. Yeah. Greg: I I mean I always I mean I I think back to my first year doing this and like I was pretty uncomfortable asking not uncomfortable, but it took me a little while to like get to a point where I'm like, you know, in a r in a really good comfortable zone in those Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: settings. And I'm sure it's the same for a

guy like that. I mean, the guy's never been a head coach and didn't really do a whole lot of media before before he got here. So I don't hold it against him. I just think it's funny to like it's funny to see like how like there are quick little moments where you see like, there's something there, he could get there, Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: but then he kinda ends up just kind of being more vanilla, which is which is fine. I that that's his prerogative, but I think there's potential. Lucas Ingham: that's what they're think that's what they're taught to do. But it was funny watching like SMU in Florida State last night. Like the SMU coach like came out of half and like spoke very candidly about like I don't know if you saw the power went out and like spoke about everything that they Greg: Yeah, yeah. Lucas Ingham: were going through there. And like I was like damn like that was like listening to like a a real human and it feels like so so many of the so many of these coaches feel Greg: Ha ha ha Lucas Ingham: the need to because I mean it is kind of a lose lose for them. Like they they end up slipping up and saying something too candid and then fans get pissed. Like they kind of just want to keep it down the Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: line. It it's just It's hard to find that line where it's like you want to be yourself, but also it's like they can get they can get anything taken out of context and then it gets thrown back in their face. Greg: I I think they're so and again, this is me just being an armchair psychiatrist. I think they're already th these guys are already operating at such a what's the word? Like, a pair I don't know, a paranoid that seems kinda harsh, but like they're already operating in like kind of in that Lucas Ingham: No. Yeah. Greg: direction as a baseline kind of thing that I don't think there's much risk of them like saying too much or like revealing their hand. Like the only thing that kinda comes to mind in that in that vein is a c a couple of years ago, Ben Arbuckle when he was the O C here, slipped up and said that Carlos Hernandez had had surgery and Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: just like a post pr I'm like, ooh, I don't think you were supposed to s I mean I'll I'll take it. Like that was great, but like for your sake I'm a little bit worried. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Well, I think about Kirby's first press conference when he said the new Mountain West, and I was like, eesh, that was that's a tough one for Branding. It might be, dude. 'Cause I cause Greg: the mountain. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that was maybe that's like stuck in his mind. Like, I can't make that kind of mistake again, yeah. Lucas Ingham: in dude, like the other thing is you know how Cougar fans are. I mean you saw Colin Coward's tweet this weekend, which was an awful take. I mean, that was just a stupid take. So it's like but Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: like people people are gonna swarm him, but I don't I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what he was thinking with that, but I Greg: Collins I I I had a tweet, I was like, you know, you could have a bat like the the take was weird, I didn't agree, but if there's one thing that you sni should never do is to intentionally pick a fight with Wazoo fans on on Twitter. Like that's just like that's just like never a good idea. Yeah, that's the thing, is that like Lucas Ingham: Yeah. He's gotta know better than that. Well he probably wanted the engagement. He probably wanted the engagement. He knew what he was doing. Greg: you can't think about these things logically. You have to think about just like the engagement that gets So maybe Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: he won in that way. Lucas Ingham: Well, Greg, this has been awesome. I want to get you out of here talking about your alma mater, Kansas State, where Cougar fans that are going to the game, where should they check out? Where they should they eat? Cool spots on campus. What what should people check out Greg: Mm-hmm. Lucas Ingham: for the Couggs heading down to Manhattan? Greg: I mean my favorite spots to eat, I'm trying to think. So Long Saloon is in a great restaurant in a bar district called Aggieville, which is Lucas Ingham: Okay. Greg: the big bar district of r around downtown ish. So there you have So Long Saloon. You have my favorite bar, which is called my god, I'm blanking on the name of the bar. It's like a tiki bar. Lucas Ingham: Sounds like your favorite cheese. Greg: my god. Yeah, geez, that was this is a high com anyway, there's Lucas Ingham: Hehehehe Greg: lots of there's all kinds of bars there. Some great Rockabelli Deli is a great bar. You can get a Get a nancy there. It's like beer and a little bit of vodka. It's it's awesome. I think I think or Lucas Ingham: God, that is awesome. Greg: I think orange juice there's a little bit of orange juice in there too. and I'm trying to think. There's so many great places. mostly a lot of what you want to go to is in Aggieville. There's a pizza place called AJ's, that that's awesome, that's downtown. go to Mr. K's, get a it's it's called a cookie, a cookie bake, which is kind of what it sounds like. It's awesome. All kinds of it's I mean, K State is like really beautiful. There's the main kind of attraction on campus is Anderson Hall. It's like it's it's like it's it's super beautiful. It's like where a lot of people get their graduation pictures taken, big big lawn in front of there. Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: so yeah, I would highly recommend just kind of taking a stroll through campus if you have the chance. Definitely hit up Aggieville and see all the bars and restaurants there. Lucas Ingham: How how big is Manhattan? I mean, is Aggyville and the whole bar scene close to the stadium? Are you talking an Uber or can people just walk over there from the Greg: No, I you you would have to like kinda drive over there or Uber or whatever from the stadium. It's not like it's not like here walking from from Martin Stadium to the Cougar or whatever. It's it's a little

bit yeah, Lucas Ingham: No, that's a little unique though. Yeah. Greg: it's it it's so it's a little bit farther. but that that's where people are gonna be, that weekend. Lucas Ingham: Right. Greg: So yeah, any mates to the great bar, there's there's all there's all kinds of party bars for s for students. I don't know if that's what people are into these days, but it Lucas Ingham: Yeah, probably not. Probably not the alums with enough money to travel down there for the game. Greg: Yeah. Bourbon and Baker is a great place to go to too. That's a little bit like birch and barley here in Pullman. It's pretty Lucas Ingham: Nice. Greg: fair comparison. I always tell people like Manhattan is like Pullman but like twice the size. Like it's Lucas Ingham: Yeah, that's kind of what I was expecting. Greg: it's it's the same vibe, like pretty remote. big time ag school. Actually both schools have awesome vet programs. So a Lucas Ingham: Yeah, hell yeah. Greg: a a lot of similarities, honestly. And it's all kind of agriculture based. Everybody takes pride in being in the middle of nowhere and Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: sp sports I mean the football team is kind of everything there. So and that way it's it's Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's kinda it's Lucas Ingham: Well in hoops hoops sometimes too. Greg: kinda crazy how like you can always with these two programs you can usually depend on football being pretty good to awesome and then basketball's kinda hit and miss. So you never know. We have we Lucas Ingham: Pretty intermiss. Yeah. Greg: have they have a new head coach now. So we'll we'll see how that goes. But but yeah, it's I'm I'm so I'm so excited. This is like I can't even put into words like how special this is gonna be. There was like a photo of me at like age fifteen or sixteen in the press box there when I was when I was growing up and Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: like ten or eleven years later here we are back back as a pro. So it's it's super special. I'm gonna get to see a lot of friends and people that I grew up with, so it's it's gonna be awesome for sure. Lucas Ingham: When's the last time you were back? Greg: last year for Christmas or Thanksgiving, I th I wanna say. I I usually try to go back at least once a year just to see my mom and sister and whatnot. but this time I didn't go back 'cause I knew I'd be coming back for for this game. So yeah, man. Lucas Ingham: Nice. Greg: Super special place. I I mean I feel about Manhattan the way a lot of pe a lot of cookies feel about Pullman, or it's just like Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: you don't really realize how awesome it is until you get there. Like a lot of people Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: talk about with with with Wazoo like it's just about with with Recruiting is just about getting them on a visit because once you get here, you can really sell the allure of the place. Lucas Ingham: Mm-hmm. Greg: and same thing with being had, it's it's hard to get to, so that's like you know, kind of a turn off for a lot of recruits. But if you can actually get them there, it's a whole different experience. So a lot of Lucas Ingham: Yeah. Greg: similarities, that's for sure. Lucas Ingham: No, it it seems like it's kind of like like you said, just a bigger pullman, dude. And I'm I'm so happy you get the opportunity to do this. Obviously, you've gotten a chance to cover a Super Bowl, but covering your alma mater as a Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: professional, I can imagine it is an amazing feeling. So dude, thanks for taking the Greg: Yeah. Lucas Ingham: time to do this. Have so much fun this weekend. Hopefully you're hopefully you're watching Kansas State lose. But I hope you enjoy covering the game back in Manhattan. And and thanks again for hopping on. Greg: Totally. Of course, Ben, thanks for having me.