บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Workforce Revival: Rebuilding Company Culture in a Remote & AI World

the organization into a large organization. So, 36 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:06.840 you know, we we as entrepreneurs have a really difficult 37 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:10.919 time taking care of ourselves. We tend to are We're 38 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:14.120 constantly thinking of feeding our staff, we feed ourselves last. 39 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:16.520 I mean, it's just it's an exhausting process. And if 40 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:19.039 you're ever in fun of raising I mean, it's just 41 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:21.039 really difficult. And I have to say, as a woman, 42 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:25.879 it's even harder. So I get that that hustle and 43 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:29.800 burnout that happens with entrepreneurs. And you know, my my 44 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:33.919 background was in journalism actually, and then it led me 45 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:37.080 to work with an organization called Robert Half International, and 46 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:40.199 I was working in research when it was all you know, 47 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:45.520 employee employment, labor market research. And then we had this 48 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:48.680 kind of moment where my husband, who's a pro athlete, 49 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:51.639 ended up getting really sick and acutely paralyzed. And it 50 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:55.319 was in that moment where we realized that so many 51 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:58.039 athletes get coached early on, but when you're a high 52 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.879 performing person and you're you're not know like he was 53 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:03.800 he had a play, had a lacrostic, or he was 54 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:06.439 you know, he had a puck, you don't get that 55 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:08.879 same sort of development. And so we went on to 56 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:11.719 try to create that. And when we started to combine 57 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:14.759 those ideas of looking at well being and wellness and 58 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:19.000 also leadership, that's when we look to culture and realize 59 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:21.800 it's really broken, especially for entrepreneurs. 60 00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:25.000 So let me start with kind of the basic question, 61 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:27.000 how do you define culture? 62 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:31.199 That's a great question. I mean culture. It's so funny 63 00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:33.240 because I talk about culture like you can feel it 64 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:37.919 in the walls, and you can feel it in you know, 65 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:41.439 in your sense of cohesion, in your sense of connectivity 66 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:45.199 you have shorthand with someone. You feel it when you 67 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.680 walk in the office and people are feeling engaged and positive. 68 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:52.120 There's an energy, there's relational energy. All of that. That 69 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:55.199 is a sense that people feel when culture is good. 70 00:03:55.560

--> 00:03:59.639 When culture is bad, people are not friendly with one another, 71 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.680 are disconnected, they're less productive, they're less engaged, and so, 72 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:08.400 you know, culture is a feeling and culture is really 73 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:14.680 foundational when it comes to successful organizations, and that means 74 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:20.199 you have to have an ecosystem approach to culture. That 75 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:23.480 means employees need to show up. They can't show up 76 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:25.600 with learn helplessness. They need to do the work themselves 77 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.800 in psychological fitness of mindset, and employers have to do 78 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:31.879 the work to make sure that when people show up, 79 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:35.920 they're not detracting from their psychological fitness and their resiliency. 80 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:39.160 So it has to be working together. And when they 81 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.560 work together and a culture is really fueled, it is 82 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:46.519 sort of baked in to this culture of caring where 83 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:48.519 you just care about each other, you care about the 84 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:50.600 success of the business, and you have a shared vision 85 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:51.639 that you're working towards. 86 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:57.040 So I see that. That's so. I've had multiple businesses 87 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:01.279 over my career. I've found that very not that difficult 88 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:05.600 in when everybody prior to twenty twenty, when everybody was 89 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:10.040 in the office. Since then, I found it very, very, 90 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:13.120 very difficult. And what we're seeing is more and more 91 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:18.439 companies requiring their employees to come back to work, to 92 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.720 the office. And I've got to wonder if it isn't 93 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:23.639 part of it because of that culture, how do you 94 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:26.759 develop i mean, particularly with new employees. Okay, with people 95 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:30.360 who are there in twenty nineteen, you'd already developed the 96 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:34.720 culture a little easier to continue that even when you're 97 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:38.759 not in a physical presence. But physical energy is different 98 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:40.959 than virtual energy. I mean, if we were doing this 99 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:45.000 conversation in person, it would be a different energy than 100 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:50.240 it is online. The energy gets dispersed, and in my view, 101 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:53.600 it gets dispersed when you're when you're on Zoom or 102 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:58.680 any other you know, any other virtual media. So how 103 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:01.800 do you do that in a virtual environment? I mean, 104 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:05.279 that's that's my first question. Or is it even possible? 105 00:06:07.319 --> 00:06:09.920 You know, One of the things that we are learning 106 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:13.519 about kind of this new workforce and why I wrote 107 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.040 why are we here? It's an existential question for an 108 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:20.920 existential you know time. I think the reason why we're 109 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:25.240 having such a difficulty in engaging people right now is 110 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:29.680 that we're not recognizing that human beings just developed a 111 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:33.759 totally new framework and heuristic over the last few years. 112 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:37.000 And you know, you're talking about trying to go back 113 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.839 to existing frameworks, and we need to rethink the whole 114 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:42.319 experience of work and the whole experience of being in 115 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:45.240 the office. You know, we can't just kind of use 116 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:48.519 men in black kind of light flash in front of 117 00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:50.399 people's eyes and have them forget what it was like 118 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:53.720 to have that kind of flexibility. And flexibility for people 119 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:55.800 means freedom. And I wrote this chapter in the book 120 00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:02.120 about freedom. We are so genetically embedded and connected to 121 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:06.160 our sense of freedom and what happens and what happened 122 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:09.920 over the pandemic humans kind of developed all I shouldn't say, 123 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:12.800 you know, humans are the workforce. Anyone that was working 124 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:18.600 developed this feeling of freedom from being able to have again, 125 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:21.959 like ability to be flexible, the ability to pick up 126 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:23.759 kids if you need to at the end of the day, 127 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:26.439 or you know, doing some of those things that made 128 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:29.480 you feel like you had more work life balance. All 129 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.959 of the data shows that we were, you know, justice 130 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:35.680 productive or even more productive working remotely. So when the 131 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:40.079 data comes in to say, actually, these return to office 132 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:46.079 mandates aren't necessarily improving that cohesion or that connectedness, disengagement 133 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:48.759 is still low and even lower for those that had 134 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:51.399 return to office mandates talent leaves. When we have a 135 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:56.360 return to office mandate, you look at team building and relationships, 136 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:59.480 The relationship relational energy has gone. And this

is Stanford 137 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:02.839 research by you know, Nick Bloom and Mark ma And 138 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:05.920 one of the reasons, I think is that when you 139 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.839 give someone freedom and you clop back, we will fight 140 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:12.000 at all personal costs to hold on to that. And 141 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:16.279 so we're dealing with behavioral you know, mindset, and that 142 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:19.439 mindset is to now resist, is to rebel, even if 143 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:21.759 it is good for us, we don't. We feel like 144 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:25.279 something was taken away. And so leaders recognizing that it's 145 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.040 there's a root cause that we have to address, not 146 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:30.639 just kind of tell everyone they have to come back. 147 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:33.879 We need to realize that there is a sense of 148 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.720 rebellion happening in the workforce. And on top of that, 149 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:42.200 we are still, you know, having people come back in 150 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:44.080 the office and doing the same things they could be 151 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:47.639 doing at home. So then it fiells arbitrary. The office 152 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:50.039 needs to be a place where people come in and 153 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:54.120 they connect, they collaborate, where there's moments that matter, like 154 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:57.240 Microsoft does, where it's fifty percent time. You don't necessarily 155 00:08:57.240 --> 00:08:58.879 have to come in through a commute. You're there for 156 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:03.080 a very specific reason and that's for onboarding. Maybe it's 157 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:08.080 a real like sprint with new onboards, younger generation coming in, 158 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.159 giving them a sprint where they're in the office like 159 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:12.360 every day for six weeks to two months, but then 160 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:15.879 we give them that flexibility. It's about creating bonding when 161 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:18.279 we're there, not just sitting on a zoom meeting with 162 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:21.159 some other person. All of these things need to be 163 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:24.679 rethought and we haven't rethought them, and that's where we're 164 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.600 seeing the disengagement and the disconnect happen. 165 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:31.399 So I'm gonna be a little skeptic here, if that's okay, 166 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:35.000 y kind of push push it a little bit, because 167 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:40.240 you know, I'm a CPA. I have hundreds of clients, 168 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:44.679 and not one of my clients feels like their workforce 169 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:46.879 has been as productive at home as they were when 170 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:49.080 they were in the office. So I don't know what 171 00:09:49.120

--> 00:09:52.240 the studies who they're looking at. Maybe they're looking at Google, 172 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:55.039 maybe they're not looking at the small business. I don't know, 173 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:58.480 but I'm just saying that's not the feeling that is 174 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:02.320 out there, Okay, And yes there are some people that do. 175 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:05.240 But I will tell you when I go to the gym, 176 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:08.120 I'm working all sorts of hours, right, So I'm like, 177 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:10.799 I start my morning at six and I end up 178 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:14.360 when it ends. So I take when I can, I 179 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:16.879 take that time to go to the gym. So I 180 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:18.679 go to gym at eleven o'clock in the morning. The 181 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:21.799 other day it's packed. I go to the gym on 182 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:24.759 a weekend, it's empty. Now that used to be just 183 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:28.200 the opposite, right, If you went during the day, it 184 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.320 was empty. If if you went during the workday, it 185 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.440 was empty. If you went on the weekend, it was packed. 186 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:39.759 Now it's just the opposite. So so I'm challenged with 187 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:42.600 this idea. And I don't think anybody in my office 188 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:45.840 feels more connected. I have two offices. One of them's remote, 189 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:48.759 one of them's in person. The one in person I 190 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:52.039 find that they are really connected and the one that's 191 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:56.559 remote is not as connected. Let me put in my 192 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.759 view and what I can see. So what do you 193 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:04.600 do differently, because you have to do something differently if 194 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:06.320 you're remote than if you're in person, because if you're 195 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:09.960 in person, you talk about, for example, you talk about, well, 196 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:13.559 you know you're going to come in for pursposeful to connect. Well, 197 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:18.960 but the connections when you're in the office happen serendipitously 198 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:22.960 right that you're having that connection just because you're there, 199 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:27.159 not because you came in to have the connection. So 200 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:30.080 it almost feels like a little forced to say, Okay, 201 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:31.879 well you're going to come in this one day week 202 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.360 and you're going to connect with people. Darn it, You're 203 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:37.720 going to connect with people, and that's what it's going 204 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:41.759 to be. I'm sorry, but I'm I'm having a tough 205 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:43.159 time getting my arms around this. 206

00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.919 You know, I think it's it's fair. There's leaders that 207 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.279 are struggling with this question. And the return to office 208 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:54.360 mandate is you know, is frustrating for some because and 209 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:58.000 even just you know, being in the office, uh and 210 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.159 not having employees really want to be there. It's a 211 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:03.440 struggle and I get leaders are in this sort of 212 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:07.279 sandwich world where they're trying to meet demands and then 213 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:10.039 also make sure that their workforce is engaged and they 214 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:13.279 have you know, they they are getting resistance, which is difficult. 215 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:16.559 But I mean the data is quite robust. It's it's 216 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:19.600 global data, and it's looking at entrepreneurs and large organizations. 217 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:22.480 It's you know, tens of thousands of data points and 218 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.879 employees that were represented and now we're seeing that grow. 219 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.360 But I think the most important thing, and what you're 220 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:32.720 asking is like, how do we engage that group that 221 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:38.320 is going to be remote? And I think they're pulling 222 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:41.000 everyone back in the office. Has proven that that's not successful, 223 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:43.879 and five days a week is the is actually going 224 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:47.799 to be a detriment to revenue and shareholder value. And 225 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:49.960 I mean and I mean, I know entrepreneurs are not 226 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.639 necessarily dealing with shareholder value, but they're dealing with well, 227 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:53.639 if they're a startup. 228 00:12:53.799 --> 00:12:55.840 LD value, they're the shareholder, they're shared. 229 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:58.320 Of value, and they're dealing with you know, revenue, you know, 230 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.320 all of those metrics that matter to see. What they 231 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:04.519 find is that fully remote is not the most capitalist 232 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:07.039 way of looking at it. It's not the best work 233 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:10.840 mode if you're purely in a you know, a capitalist mode, 234 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:14.279 and all you're caring about is that data point hybrid 235 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:17.399 is the best approach where it is several days in 236 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:19.639 the office. It could be one or two, it doesn't 237 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:22.120 need to be three even, but a couple days in 238 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:25.840 the office and five days is actually worse than fully remote. 239 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:28.480 They're finding that the data shows that people are just 240 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:32.200 feeling exhausted. There's a lot of burnout that we're seeing 241 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:35.840 across the board. So unless we're fully preventing burnout, five 242 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.000 days in the office actually adds to burnout. So we 243 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.639 need to look at prevention for people to feel like 244 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:44.279 they're engaged and give them their time back and make 245 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.200 sure that that's prioritized their well being and work life balance. 246 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.240 But you know, having a couple of days in the 247 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:52.200 office every week is still very good because we do 248 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:54.759 need face to face time. And that's why I say, 249 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:59.080 you know, my, I'm not advocating for fully remote because 250 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:03.000 it isn't the most you know, it isn't the perfect 251 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.519 mode for making the most money and having the best 252 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:10.840 kind of outcomes measures. So we need to just look 253 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.720 though at when people are coming in. It's not just 254 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.919 about forcing connection. It's about bringing rituals back like we 255 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:20.440 used to have we've lost we've lost rituals. It's like 256 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:23.919 bringing rituals back, bringing things back that we've lost sight 257 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:27.279 of understanding that friendships and relationships really matter and we 258 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.360 need to build them. So it isn't just you know, 259 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:33.279 forced fun, but it is creating those sipitous moments. We 260 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.879 found that even twenty minutes of having lunch once a 261 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:40.600 week within one organization in this Cornell study, that even 262 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:47.679 just twenty minutes once a week eating together improves job satisfaction, engagement, connectivity. 263 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:52.600 So it's more about just starting small and also recognizing 264 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.279 that what happened in the pandemic is that people did 265 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:59.240 develop a lot of social anxiety. They were told that 266 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.200 other human beings are scary and that they could hurt you, 267 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.240 and that has developed this subconscious habit of feeling nervous 268 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:10.759 around other people. Not networking. Young younger generation right now 269 00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:13.919 are having a really difficult time with the soft skill 270 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:17.840 of networking and conflict management. So we have to use 271 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.279 that time in the office to train those soft skills, 272 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:23.279 to develop people

in a way that's really focused on 273 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:27.960 continuous learning, to have lunch together, to bring rituals back, 274 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:30.840 and we're not doing that. It's just come back in 275 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:34.039 the office. And maybe you're doing it, but most organizations 276 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:37.039 that I work with are not focusing on that. Instead, 277 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:40.919 it's just a lot of overwork. And when people are overworked, 278 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:43.360 they don't have time for doing the rituals or the 279 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:44.240 friendships or that. 280 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:47.559 So I saw a study not too long ago suggested 281 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.360 this is one researcher, of course, that was suggesting that 282 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.960 a work day of seven to one is a much 283 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.399 more productive work day than a workday of eight to five. 284 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.600 Have you looked at those studies as that, I mean, 285 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:04.320 is it not just is it not just the number 286 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:07.559 of days in the week in the office, but actually 287 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:09.720 the number of hours in the office. 288 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.600 Well, see, and I'm a big proponent of goals not hours. 289 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.639 If you give people goals, then and you're really good 290 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:18.919 at understanding what people's capacity are and if people work 291 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:22.440 fast or work slow, or you know, you learn when 292 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.039 you set goals that it's more about understanding what that 293 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:28.279 person's needs are and what their strengths are and where 294 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.480 their deficits are so you can train them. When we 295 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.639 just focus on people being there and the hours they work, 296 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:38.919 it actually ends up going against us. It's antithetical to 297 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:41.879 hitting those targets. So, you know, even the four day 298 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.159 work week we've found, or thirty five hour work week, 299 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.120 I don't like to say four day because often it's 300 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.120 just thirty five over five days, people end up being 301 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:54.039 equally or more productive than those people working fifty sixty 302 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:56.759 seventy hours a week. We actually have found that over 303 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:01.440 anything over fifty hours, you're not actually getting any more 304 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:05.880 work done. So this idea of hustle culture in the 305 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:10.200 startup world, in the entrepreneurial world, it's not it's a myth. 306 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:13.880 We need to just be better at having bespoke and 307 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:18.400 you know, personalized goal setting with our individual employees, and 308 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.640 managers need to run that and then figure out, you know, 309 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.480 how I can leverage the best and most optimal way 310 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.319 that my employee is working. And often we just we 311 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.440 get it really wrong in this in this world. And 312 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.039 I've been there and I've done that, so I know. 313 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.720 Do you think it is individual specific or do you 314 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.519 think it's more across the company. So are there particular 315 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.039 individuals that you think, well, maybe their job is more 316 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.599 of a remote job and others that need to be 317 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:50.599 in the office four or five days a week. 318 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:53.000 One of the things that you know, and I get 319 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.480 asked that too, you know, is this personal? Is this 320 00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.880 across the board? I think what is across the board 321 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:05.480 is that we need to have personalized individual relationships. And 322 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:07.880 this is why at the employer level we need to 323 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:12.440 really empower our managers to make those decisions. However, I 324 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.079 do think that there are some roles that are really 325 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.519 work really well remotely. When you look at programmers and 326 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:25.119 software developers and you know those folks are they require 327 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:27.599 heads down time and they need at least three or 328 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:31.440 four hours of uninterrupted time every day. And when you're 329 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.759 in a you know, an open office, your back is 330 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.319 to the rest of the organization. The way the space 331 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.319 is set up can really impact that. But I think 332 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:43.799 someone in marketing and sales that's a totally different kind 333 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.799 of relationship. And so it is understanding the role the 334 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:52.960 team dynamic. But I do think that everyone does need 335 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.200 time where it's protected, where they can get that administrative 336 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:57.880 work done, and they do not need to do that 337 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.880 in the office. So it's about no showing what part 338 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.160 of your week, and this is why I think Microsoft 339 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:05.440 does a good job. They have fifty percent time, but 340 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.599 it really is manager led. So they have discussions kind 341 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.119 of every

week about when people will be in the 342 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:13.480 office and making sure that time is productive when they're 343 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:17.200 together and then when they're out. And it's fluid, and 344 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:20.759 sometimes you might need more in a project, maybe to 345 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:22.880 get it over the finish line, and sometimes you might 346 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.720 need less. And having that fluidity of being able to 347 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.880 be agile is one of the best ways for us 348 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:33.319 to be leading in this kind of this very fluid 349 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:35.400 changing environment of remote work. 350 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:39.400 Yeah, so speaking of fluid and changing, so AI is 351 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:42.559 like I'm watching I mean, we all are, right, We're 352 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:46.759 watching AI develop so fast just in the last nine months. 353 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:53.480 I was in my Mastermind group nine months ago. One 354 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:57.000 of my colleagues he shows us this AI and it 355 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:02.119 was it was good. Last week he shows it and 356 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.400 it's like, you can't even tell it's not I mean, 357 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:06.839 this was a sales call. You can't tell it's not 358 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:09.960 a real person. You literally cannot tell. And that's how 359 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.759 fast it's evolving. And so he was actually able to 360 00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:17.680 decrease his appointment centers from like three hundred to five. 361 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:25.039 So how are how should we be dealing now? As entrepreneurs, 362 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:27.440 we're good with that. We've got you know, for us, 363 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:30.960 it's changed your dye, right, so not a big issue 364 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.279 for us. But with our employees, you know a lot 365 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:36.920 of them, they're worried about it, they're stressed about it, 366 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:40.279 and from my point of view, they're just going to 367 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:45.000 be more productive. How do you know? How do you 368 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:45.880 how do you deal with that? 369 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:50.119 From a culture standpoint, this is a huge question right now. 370 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:53.519 I just released my LinkedIn course that's you know, for 371 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:58.039 leaders AI anxiety to AI action and really dealing with 372 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.960 the stress of AI anxiety. There's a new term that 373 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:04.839 Gallup came up with, phobo fear of becoming obsolete. And 374 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:08.240 I think that there is this feeling across the board 375 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:12.000 from employees and that's hard for culture. But you also 376 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:14.359 want to be a leader that's

going to be able 377 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:16.680 to rapidly adopt AI that's going to help you and 378 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:19.119 make you more effective and efficient and a lot more money. 379 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:22.440 And I think what is getting missed in the communication 380 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.279 right now is that we're not showing how our employees 381 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:29.599 can be partnering with AI. We're finding that a lot 382 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.480 of their tasks are being replaced. But because we're so 383 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.359 busy and this does happen in the entrepreneurial world, you know, 384 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:38.920 we get sort of heavy focused on the future. We 385 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:42.359 forget sort of the development of our employees at all times. 386 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.160 But we should be making sure that when those repetitive 387 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:48.240 tasks are taken away, that we're giving that employee an 388 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:54.359 opportunity to develop their skills in a value added way instead. 389 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:56.559 I keep hearing from a lot of employees while now 390 00:21:56.599 --> 00:21:59.519 AI is doing the things I was doing, I'm supposed 391 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.880 to be doing more creative work. Or you know, for example, 392 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:06.160 I think you're person that gets your data. Now the 393 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:08.480 AI is mining data for you, and that was something 394 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.880 that you were doing. Well, why are we not training 395 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.359 employees then to be able to interpret results or provide 396 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.839 results and present results to clients. You know, we're missing 397 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:20.400 that piece of when it's taken away, we're not developing them, 398 00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:23.160 and we're going to have a talent shortage of people 399 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:27.200 that cannot support AI if we're not actually doubling down 400 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:32.440 on this balance between future readiness, labor market readiness, our 401 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:36.599 employees being skilled up, and adopting AI at a sustainable pace. 402 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:40.880 So there's that mix of having both that I think 403 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:44.079 is a gap right now, and also just explaining to 404 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:47.720 employees this doesn't mean that I'm making you absolute. I'm 405 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:49.799 actually going to enhance your job. But here's how I'm 406 00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:52.680 going to do it. Let's create a pathway. This is 407 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:55.319 how we're going to map it out, create goals so 408 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:58.799 people feel like they're moving along that path towards their goals. 409 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:03.000 And you're going to have a really excited workforce about AI,

410 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.839 which is exactly what you want. If they're afraid, they're 411 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:07.720 going to be resistant and then they're either going to 412 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:12.400 quit or they're not gonna embrace the technology that you're onboarding. 413 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:14.160 Well, I think one of the great things about AI 414 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:16.880 is it's really fun, right because you can't break it. 415 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:21.599 You can't break AI, and and uh, you know so 416 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:22.400 many employees I. 417 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:27.359 Have Tom I'm not sure it might break us first. 418 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:29.839 Well, it might, but what I'm saying is is that 419 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:32.319 you know, you play with it, it's not gonna You're 420 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:35.039 not gonna break it, right. You know, there's there are 421 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.000 certain equipment you play with it, you could break it, 422 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.119 but you can't. You can't break AI. You can only 423 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.160 make it better. And and it actually I think allows 424 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.119 people to be more engaged and use their brains more 425 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:53.160 and actually do things that aren't dreary things. So I 426 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:57.519 I think you're spot on that. I think AI it's 427 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:00.160 almost like in my world it's going from our are 428 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.559 you Are you the accuracy person? Are you the analysis person? 429 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:08.599 And analysis is so much more fun and engaging than accuracy. 430 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:12.160 I love that you said that because I use AI 431 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:15.720 and it's been so helpful. I didn't have you know, chat, 432 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:18.599 GBT and these other tools when I was writing The 433 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.640 Burnout Epidemic. Now I can go and say, hey, can 434 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:25.200 you give me ten academic journals and you know that 435 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:30.480 are looking at you know, supporting this argument or negating 436 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:33.519 this argument, making sure that I've a balanced approach to 437 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:37.200 my journalism. It gives you a lot of data. I mean, 438 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:39.599 I'm a person that's still you know, I don't have 439 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.160 a ghostwriter. I write my own stuff. And I feel 440 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:44.519 like that's just an old school like that I still 441 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.240 read paper books. But I like the idea that you know, 442 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.200 it can it can indicies stuff for me, it can 443 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:54.279 fact check, you know, and you have to fact check 444 00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:56.720 a but it's gotten so much better. But it's just 445 00:24:56.839 -->

00:25:00.519 being able to provide you with the kind of time 446 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:04.599 that we didn't have before, and you know, we were 447 00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.359 getting our time back with AI if we're using it right, 448 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:12.319 and you know, being afraid of it is unfortunate because 449 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:14.880 you're not actually developing your own skills, and so we 450 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:17.880 need to get employees to play around with it to experiment. 451 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.000 Another thing I recognize too, is that a lot of 452 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.480 people don't realize how much AI they have in their 453 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.680 own life, and so they're afraid of something because they 454 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:30.000 see it as this kind of big I robot, you know, 455 00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:35.160 like mass extinction kind of technology. And when you ask people, 456 00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:38.200 you know, do you use Siri? Do you use maps? 457 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:40.680 Like there's a lot of things that people are just using, 458 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:44.359 and once you let them know how familiar they actually 459 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.799 are with AI, they are more comfortable thinking about it 460 00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:49.599 in a much more normalized way. 461 00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:53.319 So it sounds like part of it is actually creating 462 00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:57.440 a culture of creativity and play where you can actually 463 00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.720 have fun. I've always felt, if you know, I find 464 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:03.039 at your job, why are you there? That's my perspective 465 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:07.839 on life. But to me, AI is the opportunity to 466 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:11.480 do that. Get rid of my non creative tasks, get 467 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.519 rid of. You know, here's the question I've got for you. So, 468 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:20.119 how do you go about encouraging employees who've been doing 469 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:24.519 the same thing for a long time, right, and encourage 470 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:29.200 them to, hey, figure out how to make your job 471 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.720 more fun, more productive, and more profitable. 472 00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.759 It's it's one of the things even just that you know, 473 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:40.039 the tactics that I suggest to managers and how you 474 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:42.680 can get people excited about it. Think about a problem 475 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:44.519 that you want to solve in your life and then 476 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.359 figure out where AI could maybe come in and solve 477 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.319 that for you. And it can be experimental in your 478 00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:52.319 life and at work. But it's a great project to 479 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:54.720 do as a team, and every week you kind of 480 00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:58.880

report on how it has improved your life, where you 481 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.359 found the less where it went wrong, you know, And 482 00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.640 I think, what the more we do that and see 483 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:06.960 that it can problem solve for us and we're actually 484 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:12.519 being led by our leaders to be more autonomous and 485 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.880 have agency in how we figured that out, the less 486 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:19.920 it becomes top down here's AI. You're adopting it more like, hey, 487 00:27:20.119 --> 00:27:24.039 I can test this, I can be curious and creative 488 00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:26.680 cultures are you know, some of the best cultures curious 489 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:29.400 cultures are the ones where you know, you get this 490 00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:33.240 ability to learn, and when you put that in employee's 491 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:36.920 hands to just be experimental, it totally changes the way 492 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:39.119 that they feel about it. And then you can go 493 00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:42.200 deeper into your own organization. You know, what are some 494 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.440 things we want to solve. Here's some big, hairy, audacious goals. 495 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.440 How could we implement AI? And if it's a weekly 496 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.480 sort of you know, curiosity meeting around AI, it needs 497 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.839 to be twenty minutes, half an hour. It really does 498 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:56.079 change the dynamic. 499 00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:01.400 I love that. I love that, all right, So let's 500 00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:03.839 wrap up with two or three things that you think 501 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:10.920 that the an entrepreneur ought to do to improve the 502 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.920 culture in their company, especially given that I think most 503 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:18.839 companies are at least either they're either virtual or they're 504 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:19.799 somewhat virtual. 505 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.400 Yeah. I think the first thing that I always say is, 506 00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:28.240 as a leader, what do I want to see changed? 507 00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.799 And then do a self audit. How many things am 508 00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:35.799 I saying I want to be changed? But I'm not doing? 509 00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:38.720 Am I not being curious about AI? Am I not 510 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:42.039 you know, leading the charge when it comes to building relationships? 511 00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:45.920 Am I telling everyone I want them to focus more 512 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.440 on you? Know on burnout prevention, but I'm burning out. 513 00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:52.039 I mean all of those things. Employees can't be what 514 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.799 they can't see. So modeling the change is critical and 515 00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:58.359 that requires a bit of a self audit and maybe 516 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:02.799 even some you know, opiness to having conversations with employees. 517 00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:05.079 I call them stay interviews. You know, you want to 518 00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:07.759 find out why people want to stay and why they 519 00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:10.400 want to go, and having those sit downs to say, like, 520 00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:13.359 let's have full transparency here and I want to know, 521 00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:15.480 like what it is that you love about your job? 522 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.559 What do you want to stop doing because it feels 523 00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:20.680 tedious and one of the things that you're missing. This 524 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.559 is a great opportunity for an AI conversation to say, 525 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:27.079 like where do you feel your strengths are and where 526 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:29.200 do you think that you need more training and development? 527 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:31.759 Where do you see your career going? You know, these 528 00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:34.839 are all opportunities for us to gather data That isn't 529 00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:37.640 like an engagement or looking back survey. This is just 530 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:41.160 sitting down, you know, with your people and making sure 531 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:43.480 that you're a modeling the behaviors you want to see 532 00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:48.000 change and asking your employees how you can come together 533 00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:50.799 to do that. And then you really need to have 534 00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:55.839 actionable measures on if you are living up to the expectations. 535 00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:58.160 We see a lot of these conversations fall flat, and 536 00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:00.440 then employees just feel like, you know why, by what's 537 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.599 the point? Why am I here? We need to show, Okay, 538 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:06.039 I'm going to do this in six months or this 539 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.039 is going to be incremental. I plan to get here 540 00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.839 in a year, and then talk about those outcomes, making 541 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.079 sure that we build cognitive hope. Right now, hope we're hopeless. 542 00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:17.519 We're feeling a sense of hopelessness and it's really driving 543 00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.839 disengagement and that's just because of poly crisis and all 544 00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:22.920 the other crap going on in the world. We need 545 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:25.720 to be leaders and give our employees hope. We do 546 00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:28.920 that by setting goals, meeting them, making sure that we 547 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:31.200 set our goals and demonstrate that we're meeting them too, 548 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.880 and then together you're going to have this really great 549 00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.240 momentum and that it's incremental, but

you'll feel it change. 550 00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:39.400 And that's what I think is really about how we 551 00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:40.759 need to build culture right now. 552 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:47.119 I love it. I often think about working with employees 553 00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:53.960 like parenting teenagers, and just because you know, you know teenagers, 554 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:56.200 for example, they want to push the envelope, but they 555 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.279 also want boundaries. And I feel that with employees lot. 556 00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:04.440 You know, they they want freedom, but they also want 557 00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:12.599 they want to feel like they're they're okay, right, they 558 00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:14.480 don't want to feel like they're just being put out there. 559 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:16.799 If they wanted to feel that, they just go start 560 00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:19.599 their own business, right, That's what entrepreneurs feel. So we 561 00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:22.519 don't put boundaries. And that's the difference between entrepreneurs and 562 00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:31.359 employees basically, So in final words, how do you what's 563 00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:34.400 the most important thing we do when it comes to 564 00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:37.359 this freedom with boundaries? 565 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:41.359 It's a good question. I mean we have different thought 566 00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:44.319 process on that. Some leaders, really good ones, say, you know, 567 00:31:44.359 --> 00:31:47.039 I spent all this money recruiting that person and hiring 568 00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:50.000 that person, attracting them, and you know I hired an 569 00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:53.279 an adult. I expect them to back like an adult, right. 570 00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.200 And I think that there is an element of when 571 00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.519 you have very clear, reciprocal like social contracts with people, 572 00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:03.839 that's when you see people work to their most optimal 573 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:07.279 And it is about the agency to say as an 574 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.279 employee and giving your employee that autonomy to say this 575 00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:12.200 is where I want to get to, and then you 576 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.960 hold them accountable to that, and they hold themselves accountable 577 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:18.000 to that. That's where it's ideal. You know where you 578 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.640 you know where you can have a culture of feedback, 579 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:24.759 positive and constructive and you're open to that. But you 580 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:27.440 can only do that if people feel psychologically safe, if 581 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:29.440 they feel like, Okay, I can make a mistake and 582 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.680 that's okay, or you know, I didn't actually hit that goal, 583 00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:35.200 but I'm getting closer to it, and then we can 584 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.880 revisit it. These are the ways that we should look 585 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.720 at It is not necessarily as top down, but more 586 00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:45.960 as us working in a social contract. For years, work 587 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:49.480 has been transactional and it still is, but that's changed 588 00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:52.240 because now we're in a social contract. If we're going 589 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.000 to ask employees to be working in all different aspects 590 00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:57.720 of their life, sometimes when there's a big project, you're 591 00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:02.240 working really long hours. If we're asking people to take 592 00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:05.119 time away from their personal lives, we need to make 593 00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:07.759 sure that we meet them where they're at. It's a 594 00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:11.519 two way street, and I think more employees in the 595 00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:14.519 workforce are sort of demanding that, and so we need 596 00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:17.480 to meet the moment as leaders, and that means coming 597 00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:20.920 up with plans together and then success, you know, being 598 00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:24.079 successful together and sharing in that success when we meet it. 599 00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:29.160 I love that. It's a social contract, so, which is 600 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.160 way different than when I started in the workforce. There 601 00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:35.039 was no social contract. It was the contract was I'm 602 00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:37.000 going to pay you, You're going to work long hours. 603 00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:41.440 That is that was the only contract. And it's clearly 604 00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:45.119 we've been through such a rapid evolution in the last 605 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:48.279 few years, right, I mean, I think more than so. 606 00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:52.160 I've been in my career forty five years, so the 607 00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:56.920 last five years have been way more accelerated and change 608 00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:00.160 in the previous forty years not even close to how 609 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.279 much things have changed in the last five years. So 610 00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:06.160 the book is why are we here creating a work 611 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:10.480 culture everyone wants? Our guests has been Jennifer of Moss Jennifer, 612 00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:13.079 where this has been delightful? Where can we find more 613 00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.559 about your work and what you're doing. 614 00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:20.679 Jennifer dashboss dot com. There's all of my work and 615 00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:23.599 my HBr articles I write for Harvard Business Review, and 616 00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:25.719 there's a ton of you know, lots of stuff that 617 00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.280 I write about there on this topic. And then you know, 618 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.440 all my courses and books are all there too. 619 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:33.679 I love it so thank you so much. I took 620 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.679 you saw me looking down. I'm taking notes, right, That's 621 00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:40.960 a good sign when the when the interviewer is taking notes. 622 00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:45.079 Uh so, it's it's been terrific. I think the message 623 00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:47.639 here is that when we do develop this culture, not 624 00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:52.320 only is our life more fun and more more exciting, 625 00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.880 but really we we do make more money. And of 626 00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.360 course in my world, we're making more money and we're 627 00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:03.239 paying less tax. That is that is the key to really, 628 00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:08.079 you know, having a strong sense of our of our 629 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:10.880 company name wealth ability. What's your wealth ability? Part of 630 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:14.079 it is, you know, I might say what's your cultural 631 00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:17.760 cultural ability in your workforce? And I love that. Thank 632 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:22.000 you Jennifer and everyone. Please share with your friends and 633 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:26.320 uh look for more episodes where we can actually help 634 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.239 you deal with an ever changing workforce on the wealth 635 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:29.800 Ability Show. 636 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:33.440 This podcast is a presentation of rich Dad Media Network.