บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Can the Sandwich Generation Raise Kids and Care for Parents Without Breaking?

student 81 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,160 to kind of get the loans to pay for their education. 82 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:35,480 Because the thing is, it's like, 83 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,420 when you have this double demand, 84 00:03:38,420 --> 00:03:41,500 you can't go bankrupt to take care of other people. 85 00:03:41,500 --> 00:03:44,800 You can't drown to keep other people afloat. 86 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:46,880 They have to, you just can't, I don't believe in that. 87 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,680 I think you should not be impoverished in your life 88 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,360 because, you know, somebody else didn't make a decision 89 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:53,800 or you can't afford it. 90 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,720 I mean, it's okay to say you can't afford something. 91 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,920 It's okay to not be able to afford something. 92 00:03:58,920 --> 00:03:59,840 - Isn't that sad though? 93 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,040 Because there is a lot of pressure to never admit 94 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,840 that you can't afford something. 95 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:04,960 - Yeah, well, yeah. 96 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:06,520 - When you're a young person on dates, 97 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,680 you have to pretend like you can afford 98 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:09,760 everything on the menu. 99 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,480 Yeah, it's like you can't say, 100 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,960 oh yeah, please don't order the lobster, right? 101 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,720 Not the, you know. 102 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:16,840 - But I mean, what happens when you, 103 00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:19,000 let's say you are a sandwich person, 104 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,920 and then you come out on the other side 105 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,000 and you've run your entire financial, 106 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,880 you know, possibilities, potentials are gone 107 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,280 because you've spent all your money on caring 108 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:32,680 for either an adult parent or an adult or a children. 109 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,040 That's why I'm sorry, I really, 110 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:35,720 oh, I'm gonna get really spicy. 111 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,120 I think it's really irresponsible of any parent 112 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,400 not to have long-term care insurance 113 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,440 because, you know, no one can dictate 114 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,160 the last act of their life. 115 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,360 No one gets to dictate that. 116 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:47,920 I mean, you just don't know how things are gonna go. 117 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,160 You could have a stroke, you could have a fall. 118 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,160 There's any number of possibilities that could happen. 119 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,280 Everybody thinks they're just gonna, you know, 120 00:04:54,280 --> 00:04:55,120 just like dad says, he's not like,

121 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,240 I'm just gonna sail off into the sunset. 122 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,120 I'm like, isn't that a lovely thought? 123 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,720 You know, it's sort of like, I'm gonna be okay, 124 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:01,840 but screw you guys. 125 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:04,560 You know, it's like, I got mine, forget you. 126 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,040 - Well, I think they go along with the old school philosophy 127 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,520 of kids will take care of their parents. 128 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,240 So they're like, oh, I don't need that money. 129 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:13,440 You're gonna help me. 130 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:14,280 You're gonna take care of me. 131 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:15,800 Why do I have to pay somebody? 132 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,400 - But then the problem is that income earning 133 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:18,800 for that child is destroyed 134 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,160 because then they have to pay for, 135 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,000 what are they gonna, how are they gonna make money? 136 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:22,840 - Right. 137 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:25,880 And with Medicaid nowadays, at least in Michigan, 138 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,320 you can become a paid chore provider 139 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,680 for your family members, but you make like minimum wage. 140 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,200 So that's not really gonna help you. 141 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:35,040 - What I mean, like, yeah, 142 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,600 what happens if you're a bank executive 143 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,680 or you're some high powered vice president someplace 144 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,720 and the parent goes ill, you can't just stop your job. 145 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,040 You can't just stop working and go home and be like, 146 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,320 oh, I'm just gonna like go and take care of a parent now. 147 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:48,360 You can't do that. 148 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,200 Like it's not possible. 149 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,320 So, you know, I'm big on home care. 150 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,240 I mean, even a housekeeper is a good step 151 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,760 because a housekeeper, you know, if she comes in 152 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,480 or they come in 10 hours a week, 153 00:05:58,480 --> 00:05:59,920 if they just come in 10 hours a week 154 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,440 and like clean the house and like make a meal 155 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,000 or do meal prep or something, 156 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,360 I mean, that goes a long way to take care of an adult. 157 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,800 But also you have the problem of 158 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,240 some adults don't wanna be taken care of. 159 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:14,080 - Yeah. 160 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:14,920 - Right? 161 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,320 They don't want, they're like, no, leave me alone. 162 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,480 I wanna deal with myself. 163 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,360 I'm like, okay, well, you can't. 164 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,560 What am I supposed to do with that? 165 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:23,400 - Well, it's funny. 166 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,920 We were talking about that with Cheryl the other day at-- 167 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:27,560 - Oh yeah, someone from karate. 168 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,040 - Yeah, somebody from our karate class 169 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:30,960 because she had read the article I wrote 170 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,480 in the news tribune about, you know, 171 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,440 dealing with aging parents. 172 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,080 And she had a family member who was in their 80s 173 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,240 and they liked to eat potato chips and soda 174 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,280 and sit outside on their front deck. 175 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:44,120 And no matter what the doctor said, 176 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:45,280 they weren't gonna stop. 177 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:48,360 But it's also kind of like don't you, 178 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,320 haven't you kinda irrigated on some ways, right? 179 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:51,160 - Yeah, what are you gonna do? 180 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,000 - Yeah. - Exactly. 181 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:52,840 - What are you gonna do about it? 182 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:53,680 - You can't force somebody to change 183 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,160 that they're not gonna wanna change. 184 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:56,560 I mean, unless they wanna have a reason, 185 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,400 like, I think dad is like wonderfully flexible 186 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,120 at this stage because, you know, even like with his diet, 187 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:04,920 I mean, he realizes he wants to stick around 188 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:05,920 for these grandkids. 189 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:06,760 - Yeah. 190 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:07,920 - And, you know, so there's a reason for him 191 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,000 to, you know, hang around. 192 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,760 I mean, you know, it's not like, again, 193 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:12,760 because of the age difference, 194 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,600 I think you hit on that right earlier. 195 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,520 You know, if he was like in his 80s 196 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,320 and his grandkids were like in high school 197 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:19,800 or like college, you know, he'd be like, 198 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,120 yeah, everything's great, you know, 199 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,640 but he's got these baby grandkids 200 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,240 that he's kinda stick around for. 201 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,100 So, you know, he's changing his diet, 202 00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:28,080 he's working on eating better, he's, you know, 203 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,800 he's actually, he's

reaching a point 204 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,880 where I think he really realizes for the first time, 205 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,600 hey, my kid's actually know stuff. 206 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,280 (laughing) 207 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:37,680 Right, like, 'cause I mean, like, 208 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,360 I know a lot about what he should be eating 209 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:40,440 and I'm like how he should be eating 210 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,120 and like the kind of macronutrients 211 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:43,800 of what he should be eating and all of that. 212 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,200 And I'm like, yeah, I know how to do this. 213 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,280 I took him to the grocery store 214 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,120 and walked him through with the labels 215 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:48,960 and, you know, the-- 216 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,520 - Well, what did you tell him to eat? 217 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:52,880 - I told him he needs to eat more protein, 218 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,560 less carbohydrates and less sugars, you know, 219 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,840 and getting to eat protein is not a bad thing. 220 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,460 I even got him to go to the Sam's Club 221 00:08:01,460 --> 00:08:03,440 and get those Core Power protein drinks 222 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:04,840 that have 42 grams of protein in them. 223 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:05,680 - Oh, wow. 224 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,680 - You know, because protein is also satiating, right? 225 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,000 So you won't be as hungry. 226 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,800 I mean, when you eat more protein, you're not as hungry. 227 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,400 So, you know, just buying all that stuff. 228 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,280 - Steffi got me some protein potato chips, 229 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,480 but they taste like sawdust. 230 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,080 - Do you ever quest brand chips? 231 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,600 - Okay, so, okay, so, okay. 232 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,840 Here's the hot take, 'cause I know all about those things. 233 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:24,880 - Yeah. 234 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,360 - It depends on the kind you get. 235 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:27,960 Some of them are not good. 236 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,080 - Barbecue. - Yeah, not good. 237 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:29,920 Not good. 238 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,160 The ranch ones are very good. 239 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:32,140 The ranch ones are good. 240 00:08:32,140 --> 00:08:33,600 So if you get the ranch ones, they're not too bad. 241 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,600 I order those from Amazon, subscribe and save. 242 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,560 So I get those every month, the ones from Amazon. 243 00:08:38,560 --> 00:08:40,080 So, but the ranch ones are good. 244 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:41,560 The barbecue ones are awful. 245 00:08:41,560 --> 00:08:44,060 - Okay, yeah, I thought, yeah, okay, good to know, 246 00:08:44,060 --> 00:08:45,840 because I would have never tried them again 247 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,880 after I had my bad experience with those. 248 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,360 - No, but, you know, I think about my Uncle Bobby. 249 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,600 You know, our Uncle Bobby had our Grandma Hazel, 250 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,760 who, she basically was infirm. 251 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:55,800 I mean, she had dementia. 252 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,280 I mean, it was severe dementia. 253 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:58,120 - Oh, I didn't know that. 254 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,400 - And she came, she, first of all, she moved into a home. 255 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:02,920 That's the first thing that happened with Grandma Hazel. 256 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,000 She moved into a retirement community. 257 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:05,840 - Really? 258 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,400 - Yeah, over off state line in Kansas City. 259 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,080 - But it was too expensive. 260 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:12,120 - And it was too expensive, 261 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,140 and she wasn't happy there, socially, 262 00:09:15,140 --> 00:09:17,180 'cause Grandma was a proselytizer. 263 00:09:17,180 --> 00:09:18,320 - Yes. 264 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:19,680 - And there were a lot of Jewish people there, 265 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:21,920 and it was sort of like, 266 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,920 why doesn't anybody wanna hear about Jesus? 267 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,000 - Oh my gosh, that's funny. - I remember that. 268 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,080 I remember that, yeah, she was pissing people off 269 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,840 because she was telling everybody about Jesus. 270 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,680 - Yeah, you know, which was like, 271 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:33,200 that's just Grandma Hazel, man. 272 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,040 She's just gonna go, 273 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,000 and my Grandma Hazel was like a tough old bird, man. 274 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,040 She was a tough old bird. 275 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:39,720 And she, you know, she didn't care. 276 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,000 She'd be like, let me tell you about Jesus, 277 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,720 and then I'd be like, I'm Jewish. 278 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,320 But she wasn't happy there, 279 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,520 and then I think she got to the point 280 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:49,960 where she was sort of like, you know, 281 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:51,600 disoriented at the home, 282 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:52,960 and Bobby and Kathy were like, 283 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,400 well, you know, we should just bring her to live with us. 284 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:58,280 And I think that's what they did, 285 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,580 but they did get a home healthcare nurse that came in, 286 00:10:00,580 --> 00:10:03,000 and it was like there on site. 287 00:10:03,000 -->

00:10:06,400 And she was in the house there, you know, 288 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,360 in her last months of life. 289 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,040 - Getting old sucks. 290 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,620 - Oh, it's because you'd have no agency 291 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:13,560 at that point in your life. 292 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:17,000 You just have no, you literally are carried around 293 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:17,960 by other people. 294 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,440 Your diapers are changed by other people. 295 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:21,920 You don't, you have, you know-- 296 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:23,040 - You're like a child again, 297 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,000 but you have the mind of an adult. 298 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,520 - That's exactly, or if that. 299 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,760 - And the size of an adult. 300 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,040 Like Hazel, we can change your diaper real quick, 301 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:32,840 but an old person, oh my goodness, 302 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,840 you need like the heuer lift, 303 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,760 and like all the equipment to get them to, 304 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:40,920 'cause you can't lift those people. 305 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:41,880 You're gonna hurt your back. 306 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,480 - It's like the extended life cycles 307 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,440 of the humans are a double-edged sword. 308 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,780 It's nice to live longer, but then the years, 309 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:52,480 the final years that you have become more painful 310 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,600 and difficult and challenging, right? 311 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,720 - Well, and I would say most average people 312 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,520 don't wanna be a burden to their children. 313 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:00,760 You know, they don't wanna be, 314 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:01,720 but that's always what I'm saying. 315 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,080 You need long-term care insurance. 316 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,480 If you don't wanna be a burden to your children, 317 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,000 you can get your long-term care insurance, 318 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,040 because that will help cover it, 319 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:08,960 especially if you start young. 320 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,520 Like if you start in your sixties, 321 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:11,920 if you start late, I mean, it's too, you know, 322 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,320 for a lot of people in their seventies, eighties, 323 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:14,440 it's too late by that point. 324 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,520 It's just too late to get that coverage, 325 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,280 but long-term care insurance is very, 326 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:19,800 because no one, you know, 327 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,880 we're almost all of us gonna end in a home somewhere, 328 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:22,840 all of us. 329 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,000 - Yeah. 330 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,320 Well, I think too with Medicaid, 331 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,900 a lot of people, they don't worry about saving 332 00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:31,160 because they know once they spend 333 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:32,600 all of their personal money, 334 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,760 Medicaid will just kick in, 335 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,000 pay for their care at a nursing home. 336 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,000 It comes out of your social security check every month. 337 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,240 So you're like, I'll have it paid for. 338 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,520 So I think that's why a lot of people don't even save 339 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:45,480 anymore, 'cause they're just like, 340 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,080 the government will pay for it. 341 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:49,600 - Well, but there's certain things that, 342 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,840 I mean, if you wanna get like in-home care, 343 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:52,760 that they won't pay for. 344 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:53,800 - They won't pay for that. 345 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:54,640 - Yeah. 346 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:55,480 - Just nursing home. 347 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,440 - Yeah, and some of the stuff that they should pay for, 348 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:58,600 if they're gonna pay for anything, 349 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,280 they don't pay for, which is ridiculous, 350 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,360 like a grab bar that put it in your bathroom. 351 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,580 Some of the most basic stuff, 352 00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:10,520 long-term care insurance typically costs two to $5,000 353 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,440 per year for an individual with inflation protection, 354 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,400 or five to $7,000 combined for a couple, 355 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,640 depending on age, gender, and health benefits. 356 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:23,480 - Does that say when you start though? 357 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:24,320 - I'm asking. 358 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,800 - Because it gets cheaper if you start younger than if you, 359 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,000 'cause you can lock in a rate at a younger age 360 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,160 than if you start too late. 361 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,960 Like I think if you start in your 70s, 362 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,120 whoa, no, that's not a good choice. 363 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,360 - Yeah, so no inflation protection, level benefits, 364 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,200 age 55, man, 950. 365 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:48,200 So if you start at age 55, then it's $950 a year. 366 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,560 A woman, $1,500. 367 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,200 I wonder why it's more for a woman. 368 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:53,040 - Women live longer. 369 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:54,080 - Yeah. 370 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:54,920 Age 55. 371 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:55,760 - They wanna make more money. 372

00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:56,620 (laughing) 373 00:12:56,620 --> 00:13:00,360 - Yeah, and 55 for a couple, 2080. 374 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,560 If you start at 65, a couple, 3,750. 375 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:05,800 - Oh, and it's like who has that money 376 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,240 when you're trying to live in your normal life? 377 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:10,360 - I don't know. 378 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:11,800 - And the problem is then when you are, 379 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,440 if you don't have it, you will have it, 380 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,340 because if you are infirm and in hospice, 381 00:13:16,340 --> 00:13:18,440 it will eat through your life savings, 382 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,320 because somebody has to pay for it. 383 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:21,600 You'll have to go bankrupt. 384 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,520 You're literally, all the money you've accumulated 385 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,680 in your life will be for naught, 386 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:27,320 because you'll have to pay for your care. 387 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:32,320 - Now if you do it with compound inflation protection, 388 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,320 which is recommended for most people, at age 55, 389 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,680 you'll pay 2,200 a year if you start like that. 390 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:45,040 So inflation is generally what is gonna eat away at it 391 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,680 if you don't get that protection. 392 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,300 So if you are at the high end, 393 00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:54,300 if you're age 65 man, 3,280 a year, 65 woman, 5,290, 394 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,480 finally it pays to be a man. 395 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,480 Age 65 couple, 7,000 to $7,150. 396 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:02,800 - No. - $50. 397 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,760 If you're 65 and you try and get it, 398 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,400 that's how much you'll pay a year. 399 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,400 But $7,030 a year, if you think about it, 400 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,300 even age inflation, that's nothing compared 401 00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:15,720 to what amount of money you'll be spending 402 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,560 for the long-term care if you actually need it. 403 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,040 - Yeah, if you didn't have the coverage 404 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,040 and you had to go and be in a home or hospice, 405 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,840 I mean, how much does that cost? 406 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,400 - 8,000 or 10,000 a month for a nursing home. 407 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:28,240 - Yeah. 408 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:29,480 - If you go to a group home, 409 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,600 group homes are the new trend nowadays. 410 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,040 So they're just like house environments 411 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,300 and you're with a smaller group of people. 412 00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:40,440 And those could be like 2,000 to 6,000 a month, 413 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,120 depending on how nice they are. 414 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,160 So that's like a better cost efficient option nowadays 415 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:48,740 compared to a nursing home. 416 00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:50,320 - Andy Opperman sounds like our dad. 417 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,160 He says, "I fantasize about walking out on the ice 418 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,360 like the Inuit elderly did. 419 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,520 When they perceived they were no longer useful." 420 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,660 So that's kind of what dad and Stan say, 421 00:14:59,660 --> 00:15:00,500 that they're gonna go out in a boat. 422 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,480 - I love these romantic ideas of the last act of your life, 423 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,320 which is like, it's gonna be glorious like a Viking. 424 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:07,960 I'm going to Valhalla, you know? 425 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,240 (laughing) 426 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:10,600 And meanwhile, the rest of the world 427 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,200 has to kind of pick up the crumbs and be like, 428 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,920 okay, I guess we have to deal with the lack of planning 429 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,480 and the lack of, you know, foresight here. 430 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,520 - Stephanie knows, I went for a couple of weeks, 431 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,680 I went down the rabbit hole of watching this hospice nurse 432 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,440 who for some whatever reason was recording 433 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,080 some of the, you know, the last agonal breaths 434 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,000 of the lives of the people that she was taking care of. 435 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,280 It's not pretty, it's really not pretty at all. 436 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,840 - It's not pretty, but what I like about, 437 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,080 I think Nurse Julie is the one that I follow 438 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:41,720 on social media, I really like Nurse Julie. 439 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,600 She's the hospice nurse and what I've liked about her 440 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,400 is that by her talking about it though, 441 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,240 it takes the fangs out of it. 442 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,320 Because when people see things like that, 443 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,040 they do freak out because they're like, 444 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,440 oh my God, they're in pain, they can't breathe. 445 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,280 And because she has seen so much, 446 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,560 she's been like a death doula, right? 447 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,360 She's able to say, you know, this is a natural process, 448 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,560 this is what's going on, you don't have to be afraid of it, 449 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,200 you know, it's like it's a normal thing. 450 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,120 It doesn't make it easy, but I think that knowing 451

00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,920 that we die, like it's a natural thing we do. 452 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,560 We do die, like it's our body knows how to die, 453 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,040 and that's what Nurse Julie says, 454 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,040 she's like, our bodies know how to die. 455 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,880 But it is hard to watch, especially if they have discomfort, 456 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,080 which is always the thing you're trying to mitigate against, 457 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,240 right, is to make sure that they're not in pain. 458 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,440 - And that's where hospice kind of gets a bad rap, 459 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,440 because they use morphine for pretty much any ailment 460 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,080 you have, oh, having trouble breathing, morphine. 461 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,920 Having pain, morphine, right? 462 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,160 And so that's why they've gotten this reputation 463 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,400 that they kind of kill people using morphine. 464 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,240 - Yeah, yeah. 465 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,400 - Which I, they won't admit it, 466 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,960 but they give very high doses of morphine, yes. 467 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,800 - Yeah, I think some of those nurses are hospice 468 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,040 and they come in and they, you can stay in your home, 469 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,080 right, I mean, you can be in your home. 470 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,360 - Yeah, at the very end, like at the very end, 471 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:09,320 you can get an around-the-clock nurse, 472 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,440 but, or you can also go to hospice facilities 473 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:14,920 where you can get around-the-clock care, 474 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,480 but only certain people qualify for those services. 475 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,760 If you need like a high amount of oxygen, 476 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,200 but usually hospice will just be like a home visiting nurse 477 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,440 where they'll come see you like a few times a week, 478 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,320 or they'll come to your nursing home a few times a week. 479 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,960 - Justin, Justin, were you with mom in her final hours? 480 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,440 - I couldn't, I wouldn't, and I'm still to this day, 481 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,280 I'm really so glad I was not there. 482 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:40,120 - Really? 483 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:41,240 - Mainly because I was too young. 484 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,000 I was too young, I didn't have the fortitude mentally, 485 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,080 I did not, I wasn't strong enough mentally 486 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:52,080 to be able to do that, and I'm really so glad that I wasn't, 487 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,120 because I don't think even mom would have wanted me 488 00:17:54,120

--> 00:17:55,400 to see her in that state, 489 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,380 and yeah, I'm very glad I wasn't there. 490 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:04,240 Being 20-ish, I don't know how old I was, I think I was 20. 491 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,600 Yeah, I just, I was just like, nope, no, I'm good. 492 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,080 I was like, no, I don't wanna be, no, no, no. 493 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,680 - I didn't even have a choice. 494 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:13,760 I would have liked to-- - You were there? 495 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,680 - No, no, I didn't have a choice 496 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,400 'cause they sent me away to camp, remember? 497 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,280 - Oh right, right, right, right, right, right, right. 498 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,980 - Before you left, did they know your mom was dying? 499 00:18:22,980 --> 00:18:24,840 Oh gosh, that'd be hard. 500 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,280 - In the final weeks, you knew. 501 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:28,840 - Yeah, it's so funny though, even I didn't. 502 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,000 I was just so delusional. 503 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,200 I was just like, my grief is weird to you. 504 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,480 It does weird things to your brain. 505 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,120 It does scramble your brain. 506 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:36,880 Grief makes you crazy. 507 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,000 And you're not in your right mind. 508 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,800 And I just thought, even up to the day of, 509 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,560 they were like, that she was not doing well. 510 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,160 I was like, oh, she'll pull through. 511 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:46,600 It's gonna be fine. 512 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:47,840 Denial, denial, denial, denial. 513 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,200 - When you're a kid and it's your parent, 514 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,720 you'll believe that any miracle could happen. 515 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,260 I mean, we were going to every church service we could, 516 00:18:56,260 --> 00:18:59,960 praying for every miracle, any miracle that we could get. 517 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:01,500 When I saw something on television 518 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:03,400 about somebody being miraculously healed, 519 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,760 I believed that that could happen to us. 520 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,720 - Oh yeah. - Right, because I wanted it to. 521 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,080 - Well, and I will say, we have history in our family, 522 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,000 particularly like one of the interesting stories 523 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,480 grandma Hazel used to always talk about. 524 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,920 She was there when her own father died in the 40s, 525 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,000 I think already 50s. 526 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,680 I think he died in the 1950s on Christmas Eve. 527 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,760 And grandma Hazel would say 528 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,160 that that was a really key moment for her, right? 529 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,480 Like it's a key thing. 530 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,320 I mean, it's not like, listen, it's not like a dog, 531 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:37,160 you know, 'cause they would say that's 532 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,080 when you put a dog down. 533 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,160 It's like, don't leave the room. 534 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,040 - Yeah, I was there with both of my dogs. 535 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,520 The dogs are like looking around like, 536 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,160 where's my owner, where's my owner? 537 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,120 You know, it's spending its last moments 538 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,240 of life in confusion, you know, 539 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,000 'cause it's so hard for owners to go in 540 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,720 and be with their dogs in the last moments of their life. 541 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,080 But the vets are like, I'm sorry, you need to be there. 542 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,680 Like you have to be there for your dog, you know, 543 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,240 to hold your dog or whatever. 544 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,920 But that idea of being present with a, you know, 545 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,680 a loved one as they pass is, 546 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,120 it's a moment that you can't, it's like no other moment 547 00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,320 in your life, there's like no other moment 548 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,120 because it's sort of like being with someone 549 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:18,160 when they were giving birth. 550 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,800 It's sort of like you're taking, 551 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:20,960 you're bringing someone into the world 552 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,120 and then you're letting them go out of the world. 553 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,280 And I think, you know, 'cause I'm poetic 554 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,960 and I'm a sensitive artist, I think that things like that 555 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,880 can be tragically beautiful in a way. 556 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,280 You know, that you're there with that person. 557 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,360 I mean, I think about the people that couldn't be there. 558 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,520 You know, you think like when you have a parent that's dying, 559 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,560 you think, well, think about their parents, right? 560 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:41,520 Who have also passed away. 561 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,520 And it's like, well, their parent can't be with them. 562 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,800 So you as their child have to kind of be with them. 563 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,600 So you're like, it's a weird 564 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,600 cross-generational experience, right? 565 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,520 'Cause you weren't there when your parents were born. 566 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,120 Yeah, you

weren't in the room with your parents 567 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,840 when they were born, but you are in the room with them, 568 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,960 hopefully, when the parent passes away. 569 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,440 So it's this weird cross-generational handoff, right? 570 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,720 It's like you're handing things off. 571 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,480 And I always think about Hamlet, because I'm a weirdo, 572 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,200 about that line that Claudius says to Hamlet 573 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,160 when his fathers died. 574 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:12,360 You know, it's like, well, your father died 575 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,200 and his father before him, and the father before him died. 576 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,280 And it's like, okay, that's reality. 577 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,200 But at the same time, it's like, that's one of the, 578 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,960 I'm like, well, okay, maybe, yeah, okay. 579 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,920 So that's just the way of life. 580 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,360 We don't like it, but you know, 581 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:29,040 it's the fate of humankind that we, you know, 582 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,480 take our, hold our parents' hands 583 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,360 as they slip this early bonds of earth, you know, 584 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:34,600 and they go somewhere else. 585 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,560 - Stephanie, would you want to be with your mom 586 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:37,800 when she goes? 587 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:38,920 - I think so. 588 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,720 I think she would definitely want that. 589 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,120 Yeah, yeah. 590 00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:45,040 You know, 'cause they always say, 591 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,800 what would your parent have wanted? 592 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,160 Would they have been happy with what you did? 593 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,120 And it's like, I know my mom would want me 594 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:53,520 to be there 24 hours a day. 595 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,600 Whereas other people, like you hear this 596 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,480 from hospice nurses all the time, 597 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,120 the people who are dying, they literally wait 598 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:04,120 until their family leaves the bedside and then they die. 599 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,600 Because they really, like you were saying, Justin, 600 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,000 like they really just would not want their family 601 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,240 to see them like that. 602 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,400 And so it's almost like in their last moments, 603 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,280 they're conscious enough to know who's there. 604 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,160 - Justin, do you want me to be there with you? 605 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,320 - Oh, of course. 606 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,880 I mean, unless I look

like a, 607 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,360 look like a pound of shit, then I don't want you to be there. 608 00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:27,840 - Well, you're gonna look like a pound of shit, 609 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,840 but I mean, you want me to be there with you, Justin, 610 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:31,680 to hold your hand? 611 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:32,520 - I mean, I don't know, 612 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,840 because here's the thing I have learned about myself. 613 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,400 - Who do you want there with you? 614 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,560 - I'm like an old dog because I'm kind of like, 615 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,200 you know how old dogs just go out in the woods 616 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,800 and they just kind of like die by themselves? 617 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:42,640 - No, you wanna be like your dad, huh? 618 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:43,480 - I don't even like to be, 619 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,440 I don't even like to throw up in front of people. 620 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,520 I don't even like to throw up in front of people. 621 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,480 I'm like, don't look at me, don't look, you know? 622 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,480 I don't know how it's gonna feel 623 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,120 to kick off the bucket here, you know? 624 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:56,520 - You would wanna be alone with strangers, 625 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,480 people that you don't know? - No. 626 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,240 I mean, I would like to be with people I know, of course. 627 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,120 And my family, I keep thinking about that. 628 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:04,080 I mean, it's very emotional, but I think about like, 629 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,120 you know, my nephews and my nieces are gonna be there. 630 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,520 And it's like, oh man, it's kind of devastating. 631 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:10,360 Yeah, it makes me sad. 632 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:11,480 - It is really interesting 633 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,240 how strangers actually can calm you quite a bit. 634 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,480 'Cause I mean, the only major experiences with death 635 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,360 I've had are with my dogs who I put down. 636 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:23,640 But I remember the nurse or the technician 637 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,760 that was in the room when we were putting down my dog, 638 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,680 I remember saying like, are you sure? 639 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,480 Am I making the right decision? 640 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,960 - And in those moments, strangers actually give you 641 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,040 the most reassurance. - Yes. 642 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,720 - Rather than your own family members. 643 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,720 Like you just wanna hear from somebody else who's unbiased. 644 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,360 Like, am I doing the right thing? 645 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:42,400 Is this okay? 646 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,560 - It's so true. 647 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,120 - So it is funny how strangers 648 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,720 actually can be very comforting. 649 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:48,560 - Oh, it's so true. 650 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,560 Well, because there isn't the emotional baggage. 651 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,360 There isn't all the story there, you know? 652 00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:54,720 And no one's in their right mind. 653 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,600 This is the thing I wish people would really understand. 654 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,520 No one's in their right mind. 655 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,840 And it's really hard because everybody, 656 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,080 and as you know, Stephanie, 657 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,200 everybody does grief differently. 658 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,360 There is no one track. 659 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,360 Austin knows this too from when our mom died. 660 00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:11,040 There is no one track that we all go through for grief. 661 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,320 I mean, it led to, you know, 662 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,400 that conversation led to some difficulties with our family, 663 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,560 you know, in terms of how we thought 664 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,520 we should be expressing grief, you know? 665 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:20,720 Nobody does it the same way 666 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,400 and people should be allowed to do it the same way. 667 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,960 Austin needed grief to deal with his grief 668 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,040 by hanging out with his friends, 669 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,040 which I totally was like, yeah, you have to. 670 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,400 You have to go and be with your young people 671 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,960 and hang out and feel young and feel alive and be distracted. 672 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,480 I think those are just completely fine things to do. 673 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,520 But then if you have this sort of Victorian idea 674 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,320 that you're supposed to sit around in the house and, 675 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:43,320 sorry, Stephanie. 676 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,360 But if you're supposed to sit around and sit shiva 677 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,320 for like forever and ever and ever, 678 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,160 it's like, yeah, there comes a point. 679 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,640 It's like, okay, I can't just sit around the house. 680 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:52,880 I'm going stir crazy, you know? 681 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,280 It's like, I need to get out of this house. 682 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,760 I can't just sit in, you know, it's a lot. 683 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,120 Grief is a lot, it's a lot. 684 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:01,440 - Yeah, maybe you don't have to go full Scarlett O'Hara 685 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,000 and

go out to the dance and, you know. 686 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,240 - Right, exactly. 687 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,080 - But I Grieve in Stereo says, good morning, Austin. 688 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,760 How do you know Justin will go before you? 689 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,080 Ha ha, cheers. 690 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:10,920 - Oh man. 691 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,400 - Yeah, I might go before you, Justin. 692 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,720 - Listen, I have seen these videos of these 90 year old 693 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,920 brothers that are saying farewell to each other 694 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,400 'cause one's dying and I'm just like, bruh, bruh. 695 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:24,400 It's just like-- 696 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:25,240 - What do you think? 697 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,640 - I think I'll go first. 698 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,400 - Well, you have more stress than I do, I think, 699 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,520 because you have children. 700 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:31,560 - Yeah. 701 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,120 - I mean, you've got way, 702 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,960 church was just life stress. 703 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,120 I don't, I mean, I have a happy-go-lucky life, 704 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:37,960 you know what I mean? 705 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,160 Like, I don't have any babies, although I love your babies. 706 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,040 You know, I don't have the-- 707 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,840 - Yeah, same anxieties. 708 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,320 - No, I don't have those anxieties and it's, 709 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,920 it does, you know, although, you know, 710 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,680 but yeah, I don't know, I mean, I, listen. 711 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,640 - I think my hair is grayer than yours. 712 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:53,480 - What say? 713 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:54,760 - I think my hair is grayer than yours. 714 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,560 - Yeah, I have grandma Hazel's DNA. 715 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:57,680 (laughing) 716 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,400 She had her dark hair for a long time. 717 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,680 No, I just, death is devastating. 718 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,280 It's a devastating thing and I think that's why, 719 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,160 well, I'm gonna sound like a Hallmark card, 720 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,480 but that's why we gotta love each other, you know? 721 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,120 It's like, when you know you're loved, 722 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:11,600 when you know you're loved, like when mom died, 723 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,800 that's the thing that even to this day still consoles me. 724 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,600 It's like, I know my mother loved me. 725 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,200 Do you know how many kids I see? 726 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,440 Adults, adults whose parents don't love them 727 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,400 or don't tell them that they love them. 728 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,800 I mean, oh my gosh, I mean, the thing that is, 729 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,680 I'm so grateful for is I had loving parents, you know? 730 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,000 I had loving parents, which is rare, it's very sad. 731 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,720 - It's just unfortunate that like, 732 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,920 this thing where we're supposed to feel all this love 733 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,980 and like, you know, happy emotions. 734 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,360 In the end of our parents' life, 735 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:46,040 we end up feeling irritated, annoyed, guilty. 736 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,240 Like we feel all of these negative emotions, 737 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,880 at least I know I do. 738 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,520 'Cause like, my mom will make comments. 739 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,280 She'll be like, I'm paying for your lunch right now, 740 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,720 but remember me when I'm in the nursing home. 741 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,920 This is so you come visit me. 742 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,760 - She does that stuff, she does. 743 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:02,840 - Yikes. 744 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,240 - That's when you just start needing to fake dementia. 745 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,240 Be like, who are you? 746 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,880 (laughing) 747 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,040 Do I know you? 748 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,440 - But it's just like, you know, 749 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,320 there's this guilt and annoyance, you know, 750 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,680 when they don't do what you recommend that they do, 751 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,420 you know, like my mom, she works out all the time now, 752 00:27:19,420 --> 00:27:21,080 you know, that is wonderful. 753 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,000 But she works out so hard that she injures herself. 754 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,320 And then she's like, oh my gosh, my hip is hurting. 755 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,360 I think I need to go to the orthopedic doctor 756 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:29,880 and get surgery, you know. 757 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,600 And it's just like, oh my gosh. 758 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,660 Like, they bring these things on themselves sometimes. 759 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,320 And you're just like, stop it! 760 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:39,160 (laughing) 761 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,480 - Yeah, well, it's, oh, sorry. 762 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,640 - Go ahead. 763 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,280 - No, I was just gonna say, it's such a being, 764 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,320 growing up is weird because there does come a point, 765 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,120 and this has been my, I think this has been 766 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:51,880 one of my big things to work on in myself 767 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,520 is that sometimes, it's okay to be an adult. 768 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,520 And as you are an adult

child, 769 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,720 it's like the adult has got to come to the fore. 770 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,120 What I've really admired about Austin 771 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:03,320 is that Austin has gotten, 772 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,880 he's gotten there faster than I have, 773 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,180 in terms of like this sort of individuation, 774 00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:10,760 individuating away from parental structures. 775 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,920 I have not done that as well 776 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,760 because of my programming as a child growing up. 777 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:16,800 (laughing) 778 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,440 But Austin, because he was secondary, 779 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:19,460 I think he was a second child, 780 00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:21,800 I think he was able to individuate much faster 781 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,040 than I have been able to. 782 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,340 And to just be like, no, I'm doing this. 783 00:28:25,340 --> 00:28:27,140 Like when I stayed in a hotel, 784 00:28:27,140 --> 00:28:29,940 when I came back for this last trip to Kansas City, 785 00:28:29,940 --> 00:28:30,960 I mean, I thought that was like 786 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,200 the ultimate act of rebellion to do that, 787 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,940 to just go and not stay at the house. 788 00:28:35,940 --> 00:28:37,880 But then I realized I was like talking to other people, 789 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:38,720 like she was saying, Stephanie, 790 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,240 that we're not family, right? 791 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,960 That don't have that dynamic in their awareness. 792 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,600 And they're like, well, of course I stay in a hotel. 793 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:46,880 That's a completely fine thing to do. 794 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:47,740 You're gonna totally do that. 795 00:28:47,740 --> 00:28:49,080 There's nothing wrong with that. 796 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,200 But for me, it felt like an act of rebellion. 797 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,040 But I'll tell you, having done it, 798 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,120 it was wonderful for my mental health. 799 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:57,480 - Yeah. 800 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:58,820 - To be able to have my own space, 801 00:28:58,820 --> 00:29:02,660 my own shower, my own bed, my own clean bed, 802 00:29:02,660 --> 00:29:04,920 it made an enormous difference in my enjoyment 803 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,400 of my time being home, actually. 804 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,060 I enjoyed being home more 805 00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:10,020 because I knew that no matter what was gonna go on, 806 00:29:10,020 --> 00:29:12,920 I was gonna have my safety zone to go to the hotel room 807 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,480 and be able to have my space and be like, this is me. 808 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,280 No, you know? - Yeah. 809 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,960 - But for me, but to assert your dominance as an adult 810 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,120 is very difficult. 811 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,440 I will say my mother was very good at this 812 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,480 because I can remember Mom being in her 30s or whatever, 813 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,320 I mean, 'cause Mom passed away when she was 49, 814 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,280 but Grandma would come after us or something. 815 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,680 You know, like it would be me or Austin. 816 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,000 You know, we'd be at Grandma Hazel's house 817 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,040 and Grandma Hazel would come after us about some other thing. 818 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:41,960 And Mom would be present. 819 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,320 She would be there in the room. 820 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,400 And she'd say, "Mother, these are my children." 821 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,160 And I was like, "Oh, listen, my therapist loves our mom, man." 822 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,040 She's like, "Your mom was, she was A-okay." 823 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,920 Psychologically speaking, our mom was very mentally healthy. 824 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,800 She was very mentally healthy 825 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,240 because she had good boundaries. 826 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,520 She had a good way of expressing aggression. 827 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,160 Her, you know, she was very much in touch 828 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,440 with her feelings about how she felt about things. 829 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,240 But to see my mother stand up to her mother, 830 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,320 I remember that being a big moment in my life 831 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,120 and thinking, whoa, that's Mom talking back to Grandma. 832 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,080 Like that's, whoa. 833 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,280 So, you know, as you become an adult, 834 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,160 you do, as you know, Stephanie, from your therapy work, 835 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,320 you have to individuate away from your family. 836 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,880 You have to individuate away from your parents 837 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,080 and be your own person and have your own desires, 838 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,480 your own wants, your own needs. 839 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,840 - You had a lot of pressure, though, to sort of, 840 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,240 what's the opposite of individuate? 841 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,680 You had a lot of pressure. - Inmeshment, enmeshment, 842 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,120 when you're enmeshed with your parent, 843 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,440 and then that's basically covert incest. 844 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,040 That's basically just incest. 845 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,320 - Oh, yeah, that was me and my mom, yeah, 846 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,680 until I was like 30, yeah. 847 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,560 - It's incest, it's a kind of incest. 848 00:30:52,560

--> 00:30:55,560 It's an emotional incest, which is that, you know, 849 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,560 they are basically using you as an emotional way 850 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,760 to get their needs met, which is absolutely wrong. 851 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,600 Your parents, you should not be the spouse of your parent 852 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,600 and you're meeting your parents' emotional needs. 853 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:09,800 It's not the job of the child 854 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,080 to meet the parent's emotional needs at all. 855 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,720 But many parents do that. 856 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,120 Maybe because they're in a hapless marriage 857 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,600 or they're divorced or they don't like their spouse, 858 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,280 so they use their children as their romantic partners. 859 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,520 I mean, not in the sexual sense, 860 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,040 but absolutely in the emotional sense. 861 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,360 It's an emotional enmeshment, yeah. 862 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,880 Boy, you guys are getting hot topics today. 863 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:27,720 This is good stuff. 864 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,880 - Spicy, personal, I mean. 865 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,200 (audience cheering) 866 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,960 - Yeah, it's just, I just don't wanna feel bad 867 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,480 for not helping. 868 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,920 You know, like, I have all of this guilt and anticipation 869 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,160 that like, you know, when my mom needs me one day, 870 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,640 she'll be like, "Come now!" 871 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,440 And I'll be like, "No," and then I'll feel terrible. 872 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:51,720 (laughing) 873 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,080 - Well, I mean, I think it's always about, 874 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,360 like, relationships are living things, right? 875 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:57,680 They are living things. 876 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,880 And in those moments when you're feeling 877 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,080 that particular way, you know, you wanna have the ability 878 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,640 to help in the way that you can help, 879 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,600 in the best way you can help, right? 880 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,200 And negotiate those things out. 881 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,320 And I think that's where conversations come to the fore. 882 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,880 It's like having those conversations 883 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:12,720 and saying, "What do you need? 884 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,120 What do you anticipate? 885 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,960 You know, how can we work together 886 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,400 to help you get your needs met 887 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,760 when you need things to get done?" 888 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,040 I mean, my friend

Amy from high school, 889 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,800 when they bought their home, 890 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,760 they bought their home with her mother, okay, her mom, 891 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,840 knowing that they would use the home 892 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,320 as an in-care home for her 893 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,760 so she could just have a place to live 894 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,840 and everybody would be all there together. 895 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,360 And she has a gorgeous, beautiful home, gorgeous. 896 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,040 And when they bought that house, you know, 897 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,520 I didn't, I thought, well, you know, 898 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,560 'cause her husband is a teacher. 899 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,400 And I thought, "Well, girl, 900 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:46,720 how'd you get all the money to get this house?" 901 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:47,760 But it was three people. 902 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,560 It was three people combining their money. 903 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,960 But the intent was knowledge 904 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,520 that there was gonna be a time when her mom would need help 905 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,920 and that would be an important thing. 906 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,200 So they all sort of lived together. 907 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,040 So there was this in-house sort of thing going on there. 908 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:00,880 But yeah, no, you're right. 909 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,560 It's like, like I was saying, 910 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,200 if you're the vice president of Citibank 911 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,920 in downtown Manhattan and your dad lives in Kansas, 912 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,960 it's like, what are you gonna do? 913 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,920 You can't just quit your job in Citigroup, you know, 914 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,040 as a high-level executive and be like, 915 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,680 "I'm gonna come home and da, da, da, you know, 916 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:17,960 take care of my parents." 917 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,960 - Right, it's almost seen as selfish when you don't. 918 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,400 You know, like, especially in the Indian culture 919 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,680 or the Asian culture, it's like you help your parents. 920 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,160 They live with you in your house. 921 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,000 That is how it is. 922 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,760 But in the American culture, we are much more selfish. 923 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:33,680 - Yeah. 924 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,400 - Well, it's also hard if you have a combative parent, right? 925 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,480 If you have a very highly combative or, 926 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,320 let's suppose, disagreeable parent, right? 927 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,480 A parent who's very highly disagreeable, 928 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,000 who doesn't

want, who's not very amenable to change 929 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,760 or flexibility or doesn't wanna do things. 930 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,520 Caring for someone who refuses care 931 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,200 is psychologically very, very difficult to do. 932 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,080 'Cause at a point, you reach a point where you're like, 933 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,880 "I'm gonna strap you in that chair, old man." 934 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,040 (laughing) 935 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,960 Or if they only want things a certain way. 936 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,560 Because I think parents, they see help as, 937 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,920 you personally have to bring your body physically here 938 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:11,840 and help me. 939 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,120 They don't see help as, "Hey, mom, 940 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,040 let me get some resources together for you. 941 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,600 Let me get meals delivered for you. 942 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,640 Let me get an in-home person to help you. 943 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,680 Let me get someone to help clean your house." 944 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,640 They see those resources as not helping 945 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,160 because you're not physically there with them. 946 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,000 - Yes. 947 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,200 - So, it's like they have to be more flexible, 948 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,880 but they're not. 949 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,720 - Right. 950 00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:33,560 You're so right on that though 951 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,880 because it has to do with the psychological aspect 952 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,160 of expectation, right? 953 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,840 Because if you are doing all of those things, 954 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,160 I think you are caring. 955 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:46,280 That is caring. 956 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,080 And the thing that will happen is you'll feel guilty 957 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,000 'cause you'll think, "Well, I didn't do anything." 958 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:52,840 But you did. 959 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,840 If you arrange for home healthcare 960 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,520 or if you arrange for meals to be delivered 961 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,040 or if you arrange for, I don't know, 962 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,240 a fitness person to come or exercise coach to come or whatever. 963 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:03,360 It's like you are caring. 964 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,560 You are caring in the best way you can care 965 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,680 in your capacity to care. 966 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,680 I mean, it's amazing. 967 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,520 And here's the other thing too. 968 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,520 What's wonderful is, and I take such consolation in this, 969 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,160 there are resources for caregivers. 970 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,760 There's so many wonderful resources. 971 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,640 And you know you have to find them, 972 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,320 but there are resources for like, 973 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:24,680 how do I deal with the stress? 974 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:25,680 How do I deal with the guilt? 975 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,440 How do I deal with the such and such and such? 976 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,000 There's support groups. 977 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,600 There are Zoom conference things for people to go to 978 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:33,800 to figure out how to do it. 979 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,040 So the wonderful thing about the world that we live in today, 980 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,320 especially with social media and all the stuff we have, 981 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,640 which can take away stuff, but can also give us things, 982 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,360 is that we can find those ways of getting supported 983 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,920 in those particular roles of being caregiver 984 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,040 if those things should eventually happen. 985 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,200 There are resources. 986 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,680 That's the thing I always say to myself 987 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,360 whenever I'm up against a wall, 988 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,280 it's like, "Can I tell you something really helpful 989 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,000 "that's helped me in the past couple weeks?" 990 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,440 There's this thought of what if, 991 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,560 and then insert scary thought, right? 992 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,000 What if, dot, dot, dot, scary thought, right? 993 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,440 What if I can't, blah, blah, blah? 994 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:07,720 Or what if such and such happens? 995 00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:10,080 Or what if so and so, blah, blah, blah, blah? 996 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,760 I am loving this new reframe 997 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,600 that I've been putting on my refrigerator, 998 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,160 which is even if, right? 999 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,040 So instead of saying what if, say even if. 1000 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,120 So meaning like, even if, dot, dot, dot, scary thing happens, 1001 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,680 I'll find resources, there'll be help. 1002 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,160 I can look for what I need. 1003 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,680 I can ask for what I need. 1004 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,480 So it doesn't have to be this terrorizing, 1005 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,600 'cause I catastrophize like a mofo. 1006 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,120 But if I can find out the idea of even if I blank, 1007 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,620 or even if such and such happens, it's gonna be okay. 1008 00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:41,280 It's gonna be okay because I've gone through 1009 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,320 other hard things in life, and

there are resources. 1010 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,760 There are so many resources. 1011 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,840 Books, podcasts, television shows, therapists. 1012 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,940 I mean, there's so many things that are out there for us 1013 00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:54,440 to avail ourselves of that can help us. 1014 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,680 So even if has been my real great reframe change 1015 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,160 for if I'm catastrophizing, and I'm going, 1016 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,320 what if I blank, blank, blank? 1017 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,260 It's like, I used to have this, well, I still do. 1018 00:37:05,260 --> 00:37:07,080 I have a Metaphobia. (laughs) 1019 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:08,420 - What is that? 1020 00:37:08,420 --> 00:37:10,600 - A Metaphobia is the fear of vomiting. 1021 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,200 It's like a fear of vomiting. 1022 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,580 And like, I'm deathly afraid of it. 1023 00:37:14,580 --> 00:37:16,080 Like I don't like it, and I don't like it 1024 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:16,920 when other people do it. 1025 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,240 Like it really, it's not good for me. 1026 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:21,280 I have panic attacks around it. 1027 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,880 But my therapist and I have decided we're laughing. 1028 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,240 We're like, my first book is gonna be called, 1029 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:27,960 So You Threw Up in Front of Everybody. 1030 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,640 Now What? (laughs) 1031 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,660 So it's sort of like, even if I throw up 1032 00:37:34,660 --> 00:37:36,000 in front of everybody, right? 1033 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,980 Even if I get sick on this plane, 1034 00:37:37,980 --> 00:37:40,800 or even if I get sick on this train, or whatever, 1035 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,160 I'll be okay. 1036 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,560 I'll just come clean up. 1037 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,360 You know, what's the worst thing that can happen, you know? 1038 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,680 So, 'cause I'm a terrible catastrophizer, 1039 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,720 and it really makes my life very unhappy. 1040 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:53,960 And it's like, because it's not real. 1041 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,560 It's not even like these thoughts are real. 1042 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:56,400 They're not real. 1043 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,500 It's just like, you're terrifying yourself. 1044 00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:00,680 So I think it's being able to take your power back 1045 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,320 with those scary thoughts, and just say, 1046 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,480 you know, even if such and such happens, 1047 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,800 I've got family, I've got friends, I've got resources. 1048 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,680 I've got, you know, I'm not dumb. 1049 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:10,560 I'm a smart person. 1050 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,320 I can look for ways to find help. 1051 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,340 There are places that I can go. 1052 00:38:14,340 --> 00:38:16,640 We don't have to do this life thing on our own. 1053 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,400 I think that's the thing, you know? 1054 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,040 It's like, you don't have to do these struggles by yourself. 1055 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,800 - So then what do you wanna do, Justin? 1056 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,760 Let's assume that I'm not gonna die first. 1057 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,120 So then what do you wanna do? 1058 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,680 Do you wanna just go into a home there in Boston 1059 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:33,680 and die alone, or do you, what do you wanna do? 1060 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:34,880 - Do I wanna die alone? 1061 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:35,720 Well, I don't wanna die alone. 1062 00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:37,400 I mean, I can't make that, you know, 1063 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,280 it's so hard to make that call, because in the moment, 1064 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,120 you're just like, I don't know. 1065 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,800 How are you gonna feel next Tuesday, Austin? 1066 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,160 How are you gonna feel next Tuesday? 1067 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,440 It's like, I don't know. - Well, I know, I get it. 1068 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,040 Well, here's, I'll tell you what, I'll offer it up, guys. 1069 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,520 I wanna die surrounded by all my family, 1070 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,600 friends and loved ones. 1071 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,040 And, you know, unless you think it's gonna traumatize you, 1072 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,360 if you think it's gonna traumatize you, 1073 00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,640 you don't have to be there. 1074 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,200 But, you know, I would like at least, you know, 1075 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,000 Stephanie and my kids to be there. 1076 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,400 And unless my kids feel like they're gonna be traumatized, 1077 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,160 I would have liked to have had the choice to be with mom 1078 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:11,200 in her final hours. 1079 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,060 It would have been painful, but I think, 1080 00:39:13,060 --> 00:39:15,800 I'm just the type of person who likes to confront 1081 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,120 the painful things because I think it makes me stronger. 1082 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,360 And it also like, it would, there's, I mean, 1083 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,960 no matter how you felt about like being able 1084 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,820 to choose to go away, you'd show, you had the choice. 1085 00:39:27,820 --> 00:39:28,920 I didn't have the choice. 1086 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,260 So like, I don't like that I didn't have the option 1087 00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:34,100 to be there. 1088 00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:36,020 I would have liked to have been

able to make that choice 1089 00:39:36,020 --> 00:39:38,840 for myself rather than sort of like being sent away 1090 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:39,960 like I was a child, you know. 1091 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,360 - Yeah, and I think that you were 14, 15. 1092 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:43,520 - 16. - And I think that's one 1093 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:44,880 of the things about being a child, 1094 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,200 like you just don't have agency. 1095 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,240 You have no, you don't have agency as a child. 1096 00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:49,200 - Yeah. - You don't, you know. 1097 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,040 - I mean, but at that time, it's, you know, 1098 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,760 it's 15, 16 years old, you know, you become an adult 1099 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:55,600 because you have-- 1100 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,120 - Truly, and I think, you know, in our family, 1101 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,240 the thing that I try to do now is I look back, 1102 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,720 it's like, I try to give grace because here's the thing, 1103 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:04,800 nobody had gone through that before. 1104 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,640 I mean, that was, you know, when you put somebody to rest, 1105 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,960 they're usually 70, 80, and they're old. 1106 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,760 You don't know how to deal with a 49 year old 1107 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,200 who's dying of cancer. 1108 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,280 And dad was going through a loss of a spouse. 1109 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,840 Grandma was losing her child. 1110 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,800 Grandma Hazel was losing her daughter, 1111 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,080 which I can't even imagine what that was like, that pain. 1112 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,120 We were losing our mother. 1113 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,440 I mean, there were so many different emotional stories 1114 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,000 going on in that family at that time, 1115 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,000 so many different narratives happening and clashing together. 1116 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,000 And I think, you know, when you're in that space, 1117 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,800 I think, you know, if I give grace to the powers that be 1118 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,560 when that was happening for you, it was, 1119 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,720 I'm in such pain as the adult. 1120 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:45,880 I want Austin to go away 1121 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,280 so he doesn't have to experience this pain. 1122 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,280 I'll send Austin away 1123 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,080 'cause he can at least be distracted from it 1124 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,680 and will handle it, you know? 1125 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,760 Will handle the pain and Austin can go and be at camp 1126 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,600 and things and have time with his friends. 1127 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,680

- But again, that's other people assuming 1128 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,640 that they know how he should grieve, you know? 1129 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,480 - Well, I mean, that's, there you go. 1130 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,960 I mean, that's it, you know? 1131 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,920 - Yeah, they're like, oh, this is what's best for him. 1132 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,480 Well, maybe he wanted to see it in person. 1133 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,800 So he could actually get closure and like process it better. 1134 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,160 - And even the fact that we're having 1135 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,080 this conversation right now exhibits a level 1136 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,840 of emotional and maturity of adult, you know, 1137 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,440 psychological understanding that just was not available 1138 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:25,840 to any member of our family. 1139 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,960 And that historically has always been true. 1140 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:28,920 - Yeah, there were a lot of things 1141 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,800 that we couldn't and didn't talk about. 1142 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,000 - No, no. 1143 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,480 And because it was just, the tools were not there. 1144 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:36,640 The skills were not there. 1145 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,880 There was not, there was no, there was no-- 1146 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,160 - We would just get uncomfortable 1147 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,560 and get angry at each other. 1148 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,400 - Yeah, there was no way to sit calmly and rationally 1149 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,720 and because everything would always become emotional 1150 00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:50,160 and then it would just be destroyed. 1151 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:51,520 Like you couldn't have a conversation 1152 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,120 without things just becoming overly overwrought. 1153 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,200 And then just, okay, we had then the conversations to stop 1154 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,360 because people can't, they're just too flooded. 1155 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:00,760 The emotions are just too flooded 1156 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,720 and they can't talk about things. 1157 00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:05,480 - Do you think your mom like knew she was dying? 1158 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,400 Was she like having conversations with anyone about it? 1159 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:09,240 Do you think? 1160 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,160 Like your dad or anything? 1161 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,360 - That's such a great question. 1162 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:17,360 I think that there was a level of awareness subconsciously. 1163 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,640 Guess when I remember coming back from college 1164 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,800 and mom had been first diagnosed, 1165 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,480 she was not even the same person. 1166 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,640 Like she was not at all the same person that I knew. 1167 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,120 I mean, she was so introverted to herself 1168 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,840 'cause I think she was just so shocked about what is, 1169 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,400 like she was in shock. 1170 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,160 She was in shock that this was happening to her 1171 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,440 and here she was 48 years old 1172 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,080 and she had three kids 1173 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,840 and she's just in that hospital bed in Belton 1174 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,880 and she's just like completely within herself. 1175 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,960 Like she was so emotionally like vacant. 1176 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,000 It was just like, she wasn't even there. 1177 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,040 - Yeah, it was a completely different person. 1178 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:53,000 - Completely different person. 1179 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,680 And I think that then from that moment on, 1180 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,680 she was just like, okay, we gotta figure out 1181 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,640 how to make this happen. 1182 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,520 I mean, were there conversations about those things 1183 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:01,680 behind closed doors? 1184 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,160 Probably most likely. 1185 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,440 I mean, there's a lot of nuance in those last years 1186 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,520 that I could just, this has been the great exploration 1187 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,760 for myself as an adult in terms of hope and delusion 1188 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,480 and like Austin says, knowledge of things. 1189 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:16,760 Knowing when something's very bad, 1190 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,640 I told my best friend from my church, 1191 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,080 I said, it would have been nice 1192 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:21,840 if I hadn't been so delusional with my mother 1193 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,720 in the last years of her life 1194 00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:26,240 because I just kept hoping that she was just gonna get well. 1195 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,040 I just believed that she was gonna get well. 1196 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,000 And I said, I think what that did is it prevented me 1197 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,360 from having those really truly emotionally intimate times 1198 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,240 with my mother to be like, no, my mother's dying 1199 00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:37,080 and act accordingly, act accordingly. 1200 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,920 Like, it's a terrible thought to think 1201 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,000 your mother's gonna die. - Linger a little longer 1202 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,480 at the hospital. 1203 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,560 - Well, or just have the conversations, 1204 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,480 get to know her more emotionally, express effect.

1205 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,560 I mean, I did those things, but like expressing love, 1206 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,720 expressing affection, expressing gratitude. 1207 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,400 But here's the thing, we don't need to be dying 1208 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:55,680 to do that with our loved ones. 1209 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:56,640 We don't need to be dying. 1210 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,160 We can do that every day with our loved ones 1211 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,200 and say, I'm so grateful for you. 1212 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,600 I'm so glad you're such a wonderful parent. 1213 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:03,920 You are such a wonderful influence. 1214 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,000 I'm so happy. 1215 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,160 They don't need to be on their last leg 1216 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,560 before you say these things. 1217 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,600 And I think that's the marker of, 1218 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,200 I think how I wanna live my life. 1219 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:13,840 It's like, I want my, like my brother was so, 1220 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:14,960 well, Austin yesterday is so cute. 1221 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,200 He's like, he butt dialed me out of the blue, you know? 1222 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,160 And I go, sorry, butt dial. 1223 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,080 And then I was just joking. 1224 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:22,760 I go, that's a cute butt. 1225 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,440 (laughing) 1226 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,960 You know, but just like loving each other is like, 1227 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,720 'cause again, guys, we're not here long. 1228 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:31,520 We are just not, the span of life 1229 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,400 is just like dust in the wind. 1230 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,400 And for me, and this again, 1231 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:36,920 I can only speak out of the way I was raised 1232 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,520 and how I believe in like a war of myself. 1233 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,600 It's like, you know, it's truly about love. 1234 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,400 It really is just about loving your family, your friends, 1235 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,520 telling them that you love them, 1236 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:45,800 letting them know that they're valued, 1237 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,520 letting them know that you appreciate them. 1238 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,240 But I think, you know, when I think about mom dying, 1239 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:52,560 it's like, you know, it's on some level she knew. 1240 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,360 And even, you know, in the last days of her weeks of her life 1241 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,880 when it was really bad, she knew, 1242 00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,440 'cause like she would make these remarks. 1243 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,440 Like, she's like, I gotta go, I gotta go. 1244 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,200 You know, she was like, I gotta, this is gotta, you know, 1245 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,440 she's gotta go to heaven or she's gotta get out of here. 1246 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,320 You know, and she didn't wanna go alone 1247 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:12,920 because her friend Paula was there. 1248 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,320 And she's like, will you come with me? 1249 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,120 You know, I mean, it's just like, it's like so wreck you. 1250 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,680 You know, or, you know-- - I always wanted to meet Paula. 1251 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,160 I would like to talk to her best friend. 1252 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,560 - Oh yeah, Paula's awesome. 1253 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,400 Paula was a rock, even for me as a teenager, you know, 1254 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,840 to have Paula's house to go over to. 1255 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,360 You know, like I remember like lots of nights 1256 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,040 where I would just spend the night at Paula's house. 1257 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:34,640 Just, you know, just for change of scenery. 1258 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,000 Just to like, just to have a new experience 1259 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,400 of like being in another place 1260 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:39,920 and like just getting your head clear. 1261 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,960 You know, just getting your, you know, mind clear. 1262 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,920 But yeah, I think she knew and she didn't wanna go. 1263 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:51,320 That's the thing, you know what I mean? 1264 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,400 When you're a 49-year-old mother of three, 1265 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,400 you know, that's one thing dad says all the time. 1266 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:56,480 He's like, she wanted to live. 1267 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,040 And I was like, yeah, she did. 1268 00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,840 And so that's when death is a tragedy. 1269 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:01,080 That's when death is a tragedy. 1270 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,760 Because when you're 90 or you're 80, 1271 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,920 it's like, you had a great run, kid, you know. 1272 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,360 But when you're 49 and you still have so many, 1273 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,240 you know, 30 or 40 years more to go, it's hard. 1274 00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:15,720 I love these videos of people in the hospital 1275 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:16,560 when they see their mothers. 1276 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:17,680 I don't know if you've seen any of these things 1277 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,040 where I saw this guy in China and he was like, 1278 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,560 mama, like you could see his mother in the hospital. 1279 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,040 I'm like, I just want the death visioning to be really good. 1280 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:27,360 That's all I'm saying. 1281 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:28,200 I just want the visioning to be-- 1282 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:29,200 - What does that

mean? 1283 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,160 - The visioning of like, when people are near death, 1284 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:32,560 they vision loved ones. 1285 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,040 - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1286 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:35,040 - So they'll see-- 1287 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,640 - Do you want to see mom again? 1288 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,160 - Yeah, or grandparents, like my grandma Rose 1289 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,600 or grandma Hazel or, you know, any of those people. 1290 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,640 That'd be great, you know, to be, 1291 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,680 what happens is, and this is from Nurse Julie. 1292 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:47,680 I saw this from Nurse Julie, 1293 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,640 but it brings those people that are dying 1294 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,640 tremendous comfort, tremendous comfort, 1295 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,760 because they can kind of die in peace. 1296 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,200 It's a way that the brain maybe works 1297 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,680 so that they can pass peacefully. 1298 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,120 And like, she'll say like a lady whose husband 1299 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,320 came to her in a vision in her last days, 1300 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,280 like 48 hours of her life, you know. 1301 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,160 And she's like, it's okay, I'm gonna be okay. 1302 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,520 My husband's gonna come and get me. 1303 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:12,920 He's gonna come and get me. 1304 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,480 So, I mean, oh my gosh, how beautiful is that? 1305 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:16,720 How beautiful is that? 1306 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:18,920 I mean, that's like, you can't even, 1307 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,360 I mean, it's just gonna, yeah, I'm just gonna lose my, 1308 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,040 lose my tacos over here. 1309 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:25,560 I'm talking about all this. 1310 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,200 'Cause it's so beautiful that, you know, 1311 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,040 it's like something out of a beautiful romantic movie 1312 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,360 that your loved one is just on the other side of the veil 1313 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,840 and they're standing there waiting for you. 1314 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:34,960 It's a beautiful thought. 1315 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,680 It's a beautiful thought, I think. 1316 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,840 So, you know, and this nurse Julie, 1317 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,160 she's not very religious, you know. 1318 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,640 So, but she says when people die, 1319 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,200 she says I have this extreme experience 1320 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,200 that people are going home. 1321 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,360 Like there's something that they're just going home. 1322 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:51,520 They're going home. 1323 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,080 And she's

watched many, many people die. 1324 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,200 So, I don't know. 1325 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,240 I think we have sanitized death. 1326 00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:00,520 We've made it too sterilized 1327 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:01,920 and we've put it behind closed doors. 1328 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,480 We don't look at it. 1329 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:04,880 But it's something that happens to all of us. 1330 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,480 I think Austin and I, growing up on a farm, 1331 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,640 at least had an advantage of animal and livestock life 1332 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,520 of seeing things die. 1333 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:12,360 You know, whether it was a horse or-- 1334 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:13,200 - It's definitely not a talk about that. 1335 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,520 - That's the thing I can't deal with very well, yeah. 1336 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,200 - Whether it was a horse or a cow or a chicken 1337 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,880 or, you know, a beloved pet. 1338 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,880 You know, we dealt with all of those things 1339 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:26,440 in real time in front of our faces. 1340 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,160 I mean, it was real. 1341 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,480 And it doesn't make it not painful, though. 1342 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:31,880 It doesn't make it not painful. 1343 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:33,000 It doesn't make it hurt. 1344 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,280 Not less, you know. 1345 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,960 Because, you know, I'm a softie. 1346 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,800 Like, I'm not ashamed of being a softie. 1347 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,240 I have such a tender heart. 1348 00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:47,120 And, you know, I want to feel deeply. 1349 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,680 I don't want to close off my heart to things. 1350 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,800 You know, when you really are in this space 1351 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,160 of loving someone in that way. 1352 00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:56,920 To be with them or to care for them. 1353 00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,800 Or to just tell them that you love them. 1354 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,040 Death is the great equalizer. 1355 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,520 But it should also be the great teacher. 1356 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:03,360 It should teach us. 1357 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:04,720 You know, there's this great thing 1358 00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:08,240 about the Latin Roman world which was memento mori, right? 1359 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:10,680 This idea, remember you will die. 1360 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,160 And for the ancients, they would put skulls on their desks. 1361 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:15,720 So if you ever see these still life paintings 1362 00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:20,040 of desks in ancient art or on old artworks in museums, 1363 00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,240 there's always a skull on the desk. 1364 00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:23,520 And like, why the hell would you put a skull on your desk? 1365 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,880 Well the idea was to give you a reminder daily 1366 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,920 that you are impermanent. 1367 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,400 Your life is impermanent. 1368 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,240 And nothing lasts forever. 1369 00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:36,280 And there is tremendous joy in that. 1370 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:37,880 But there's also tremendous sadness in it. 1371 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,160 But it's also memento mori is a corrective. 1372 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:41,280 Death is a corrective. 1373 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,840 Death should be a corrective for our lives. 1374 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,960 Because it points to what are we doing? 1375 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,040 Am I doing what I want to do? 1376 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,040 Am I really making the impact that I need to make? 1377 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,800 Am I working towards my highest sense of self? 1378 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,320 My highest ideals? 1379 00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,040 Or am I really just wasting my time? 1380 00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,640 Am I just sort of frittering away my life? 1381 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,760 So death is a beautiful reminder of purpose. 1382 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,320 It can be a beautiful reminder. 1383 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:04,600 And what's really not important. 1384 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,840 I mean, I can remember when my mom died thinking, 1385 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,040 none of this stuff is important. 1386 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:10,760 All the things that I thought were so important 1387 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:12,960 were not important anymore in the light of death. 1388 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,360 Because suddenly the things I was valuing 1389 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:16,440 weren't valuable anymore. 1390 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:17,640 I was like, this doesn't mean anything. 1391 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,280 There's no meaning here to that. 1392 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,440 So it was a beautiful way to really burn away 1393 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,440 a lot of the detritus of existence. 1394 00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,920 And what's really valuable was not that. 1395 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:28,880 It was relationships. 1396 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,080 People are more important than things or money. 1397 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,120 Having those relationships is really key. 1398 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,720 So this is my philosophical musings at Friday morning. 1399 00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:39,560 - Absolutely. 1400 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:40,880 Oh, is it already over there? 1401 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:41,720 - It's already over there. 1402 00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:42,680 - Oh my gosh. 1403 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:43,520 Wow. 1404 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:44,360 - Good stuff. 1405 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,280 - It was a good topic, a deep topic. 1406 00:50:46,530 --> 00:50:48,090 That's today's Wake Up America Show. 1407 00:50:48,090 --> 00:50:49,130 Thanks so much for tuning in. 1408 00:50:49,130 --> 00:50:50,210 Follow the podcast. 1409 00:50:50,210 --> 00:50:54,110 So tomorrow's edition is waiting for you, and watch the full show anytime 1410 00:50:54,110 --> 00:50:56,450 at 4LibertyNetwork.com.