บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Steve Jelfs: How Defibrillators Save Lives In Workplaces And Communities

00:04:58.480 And it will only work and deliver that shock. 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:13.040 So they're ideal for you or me or anybody who's who's in a non-medical environment to use in this case of cardiac arrest, because in most cases a non-medical person will probably be the first one to come across a cardiac arrest. 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:21.120 Okay, and uh so typically where do you find defibrillators and so we're in a in a town centre, city centre here. 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:24.480 So um where would you kind of typically find these devices? 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:28.639 Well, they're really anywhere where people are because it's people that have cardiac arrests. 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:36.560 And uh on LinkedIn this morning I see Sterling Bid had published a map of the devices they've actually funded and provided in this in the city. 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:36.959 Uh-huh. 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:44.800 So anywhere, hotels, gyms, airports, railway stations, football clubs, you know, you name it, that's where you'll find them. 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:45.759 Okay. 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:50.160 So um so what types of products do you have within your portfolio then? 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:51.759 So defibrillators, obviously. 00:05:52.000 --> 00:06:03.199 But Defib for Life, which I think is the institution that you uh you represent, what other types of products in and around that kind of sphere of defibrillation do you uh do you offer? 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:24.720 Well, as well as accessories for defibrillators like batteries and replacement pads, carry cases, cabinets that they go into, wall brackets, but we also sell first aid kits, we also sell uh specific first aid training, uh blood um kits, you know, if someone's stabbed or whatever it has a serious hemorrhage or bleed, you can treat that patient with that. 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:28.800 So we have a whole range of first aid type equipment. 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:31.439 But our main business is defibrillators. 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:32.160 Okay. 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:35.600 And does does a defibrillator have a shelf life? 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:41.360 Does it um once it's used, can it not be used again, or kind of how does it typically work? 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:43.040 Well, the actual device has a warranty. 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:48.319 They range generally between seven to ten years, but the actual battery and the pads are replaceable. 00:06:48.480 --> 00:07:00.480 For example, the defibrillation pads which go on the patient's chest in order for the shock to be delivered, they're one use only, uh, or they might have a lifetime between two to five years, depending on the type of which device it is. 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:15.600 Same with the battery, they have different life spans, but they're non-rechargeable, so you you insert the battery and all defibrillators have a visible and audible warning system because it tests regularly the pads to make sure they're in date and make sure they're usable. 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:21.600 It tests the battery to make sure it's there's power in it, and it checks the internal workings of the defibrillator. 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:30.319 If any of those are off-kilter or not working or or or expired, the device will tell you visible visibly and audibly. 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:31.519 Right, okay. 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:47.759 So how you the route to market for these products and the customer base, the demographic that I guess and you're educating people on a day-to-day basis, businesses as as well as individuals, I guess, but how do you typically take the product to market and who do you sell it to? 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:50.959 It's quite a wide question because it's quite a wide audience. 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:55.759 I would say most of our sales probably come from the website because we have a big web presence. 00:07:56.079 --> 00:08:05.279 So people can go directly on the website and look at the devices inside, you know, which one they want to purchase, um, depending on what their budget is, for example. 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:07.920 Also, you know, I'm talking to people all the time. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:15.040 For example, I was in an exhibition in Glasgow yesterday where there was a lot of interest uh on people looking at defibrillators. 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:29.519 One of the problems we've got though is most people aren't really aware, or it's not in their consciousness, about cardiac arrests, because we all think we're immortal and we're never gonna have anything happen to us, but you know, it can happen to anybody at any time, at any age. 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:34.080 So there's a very wide um audience for people who can purchase them. 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:46.399 And the British Standard Institute have just updated the BS standard for first aid kits for business, uh, where they've now recommended having uh defibrillators or ADs as part of their first aid kit. 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:52.879 So there's more I think every day there's more and more understanding coming along, but we're not really there yet. 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:58.159 I'd like to see more people understanding what the issues are and how we can help them uh with that. 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:11.120 Yeah, I guess I was the the logical places would be shopping centres and high streets and places like that where you have you know lots of footfall and people kind of mulling around on a on a on a daily basis, right? 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:28.639 But I guess if w where I was kind of going with my uh question is there's lots of small businesses, you know, whether they be retail, you know, small coffee shops, whatever, um they would potentially see you know the cost of a defibrillator as a as a as a cost to their business, right? 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.360 And then they're struggling with things like business rates and things like that. 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:42.559 So for me, I think uh a real value, and I'm sure this uh

this has been thought about, would be for businesses to protect potentially crowdfund together. 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:49.200 So, you know, three shops in a row, there's a there's a logical place on the high street to to put a device. 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:50.480 Do you see much of that? 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:55.279 Do you get businesses working together to, you know, fund these types of devices? 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:58.240 No, not to my I've not heard of anything particularly in that respect. 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:00.080 But I think that'd be a a good way of doing it. 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:06.320 In a small street or a small collection of businesses, that would be a great way of of providing it. 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:12.639 And you mentioned bid uh or putting defibrillate as the business improvement district, I'm assuming you meant by that. 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:16.879 Uh what what are they actually doing uh with with regards to distribution? 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:23.200 Well, I only read the post on LinkedIn this morning, so the actual mechanics of it I'm not uh I'm not okay with. 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:24.639 Well, I'll certainly be looking into that. 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:31.120 I'm I'm a board member of Bid, so I'll I'll uh I'll uh but I hadn't heard of that, so that's uh that that's interesting. 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:47.120 Yeah, I mean I did the same thing in Aloha when I was working for one company some years ago, uh in Aloha, the Clapmanisher or Aloha Bid, which whatever the name of it is, uh they they purchased 12 defibrillators to place in various parts around Clap Manisher in their business facilities. 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:54.159 One of the problems we have though is 75 to 80 percent of cardiac arrest happen in the home. 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:58.879 So we're only sort of scratching the surface with the public devices. 00:10:59.200 --> 00:10:59.279 Okay. 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:08.000 And that survival's very low, it's only between 8 to 10%, which means if you look at it the other way around, 92% of people are not surviving. 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:08.240 Right. 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:14.559 So until we crack somehow the home market in some way, then I can't see how survivors are increasing. 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:26.320 And education of how to you know, maybe a partner or whoever, or a child who's trying to kind of save a a parent or you know, grandparent, I guess, is i it's education. 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:28.080 It all comes back to education, right? 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.360 Yeah, there was a very interesting uh report on Sky News this morning. 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:40.159 Ross Skemp, the actor, was on, involved in about um talking about how people are reluctant to get involved when they see somebody collapse in cardiac arrest. 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:41.840 I think or get first aid in general. 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:43.200 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:47.279 And I think it was something like 42%

of people would only intervene. 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:51.440 And I think that's my experience, particularly from when I was in the ambulance service. 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:53.120 You know, people are afraid to do something. 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:58.080 Either they don't know what to do, they're afraid they'll make things worse, or they're whatever wait for the ambulance to arrive. 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:06.559 But when you think that for every minute you delay defibrillation and cardiac arrest, survival forced by up to 10%, it really isn't an option for the wait for the ambulance. 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:14.000 You really have to get someone in there, start CPR chest compressions, get the nearest defibrillators, give them a shock, and save their life. 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:19.039 And how are the s the uh the government, Scottish government in particular, getting behind this? 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:23.759 So they in terms of that education, is it something that's uh at the forefront of their minds? 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:24.159 Do you think that's a good thing? 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:31.519 Yeah, they've been they've included on all secondary school uh curriculums, CPR, um not particularly defibrillation, but CPR. 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:43.360 In fact, one of the things I'm doing, I've been I've submitted a petition to Parliament around the um the need to make sure that all ADs are registered on the British Heart Foundation circuit. 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.559 Now that's the database that all UK Armate Services use. 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:53.679 So if you ring up in 999, say someone's had a heart cardiac arrest, they'll tell you where the newest defibrillator is. 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:59.279 Now, one of the problems is when people buy defibrillators, they don't always register it in the database. 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:08.879 So though there's something like five to seven thousand defibrillators in Scotland, there's a hell of a lot more that aren't uh registered, so you might not be getting the latest information. 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.039 Uh and the other thing that people do with all good intentions But how do you register it then? 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.440 Do you register it with the central body? 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.720 You can do online, the British Heart Foundation, the circuit database. 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:29.919 And the other problem is people with all good intentions who buy a defibrillator, and as I said before, the defibrillator will ver um visually and orderly tell you if there's a f a problem, they don't bother and check it. 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.399 So they might go on the wall of the cabinet for months and then not even notice that there's an issue. 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.399 Yeah, it's like a fire alarm in a building you'd regularly do a test every week to make sure it works. 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:43.759 Yeah, so the second part of my my my petition is to look for the Scottish Government to look at legislation. 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:54.240 One, so the people register them, and two, they regularly maintain them because there's uh legislation around firefighting equipment, but there's only 30 to 40 deaths a year from fires. 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:57.840 There's 3,800 deaths in Scotland a year from cardiac arrest. 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.519 So to me, there's a bit of a illogical approach there. 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:12.320 So I've been speaking to Keith Bryan, the local MSP, he's very supportive, and I say I've submitted this petition to Scottish Parliament, so I'm just waiting for feedback to see whether it's what's going to happen with it. 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:13.919 Right, okay, good. 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:23.279 So actually, that the last topic you just talked about, what would a typical package look like from DFIB for life in terms of product service training? 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:26.559 Well, we can offer the whole range, as I mentioned. 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:46.879 Generally, when people look to buy a defibrillator, if it's say for an internal um building like this, for example, you'd have our you'd have the defibrillator, which comes with the a set of pads and the battery, you'd have a probably in a carrying case, and it'll sit on a wall bracket or within a cabinet, and everybody would know that it's there and what it's for. 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.279 Um we provide two types of training. 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:51.120 One is I sometimes do an awareness training. 00:14:51.279 --> 00:15:01.440 So if someone buys a defibrillator, I'll come along do an hour awareness training just to go through the product and let them see how simple it is to use and do a bit of CPR. 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:11.360 We um we also offer an annual maintenance contract that we could we'll come along, clean the device, check the pads, check the battery, make sure everything's working fine. 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:14.000 So that's an optional thing that we can do as well. 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:23.360 And we also do some longer training courses around things like the unconscious patient, how to use a defibrillator, how to do CPR. 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:30.159 So we've got a whole range of different uh packages that we can offer customers depending on their requirements. 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:31.840 Right, okay. 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.600 Um you just just kind of thought of something. 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:44.960 We were talking kind of earlier around obviously most most of the cardiac cardiac arrests are happening in the home as opposed out in the community. 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:56.639 There's little we could probably do with, you know, the kind of point about the kind of pieces in in the home, but around the community, uh the bid are launching something called the Digital Town Hub. 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:02.799 It's an app for Sterling, so it's for Sterling as opposed to you know Platman and Show, the wider Fourth Valley. 00:16:02.960 -->

00:16:12.799 But it's maybe uh something that can be used as a point of reference to show where all the different relators are across across Stirling, for example. 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:28.879 So it's another vehicle, it's going to be the interface for all businesses to interact and all you know um residents and what have you to interact with Sterling on to see if there are events happening and you know where I need to go, you know, for this or to go for that. 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:36.799 Maybe is there a vehicle there to get the message out and and and the network of defibrillation across across Sterling in particular. 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:43.200 Yeah, there is a I think called defib finder, which is a mapping of all the defibrillators in a certain postcode. 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.759 But it's only as good as the data that's in there, of course. 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.080 I'm sure there are a number of devices that aren't shown in that. 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:57.759 But it's maybe I'm thinking a bit more of a of a vehicle to to market defibrillation across Sterling. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.799 Yeah, I think anything that backs that up and can help, you know, raise awareness has got to be a good thing. 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.720 And I think there are many, many defibrillators out there that are in the community. 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:11.039 You'll see them on the wall of the church or the town hall or the community hall. 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.279 Business wise, we don't have so many in the business premises. 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.799 And I think there's an opportunity there for that type of approach. 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:19.599 Yeah. 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:21.039 Right, okay. 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.799 So I think you've answered this question anyway. 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:32.000 I was gonna ask you, do you need to be proficient in first aid, but in general, so you don't need to be a trained first aider to use a defibrillator. 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:38.400 No, there's there's no training required to use a uh uh defibrillator because it tells you what to do, and you can't make a mistake. 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:40.480 So there's no requirement for it. 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:46.640 I just imagine it's like a bit of a YouTube clipper just kind of explaining exactly how you do this, do that, do this, do the other. 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:53.279 Yeah, as soon as you switch it on, it'll say it will tell you what exactly what to do, make sure 999's called, yeah, um, etc. 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:53.920 etcetera. 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.079 So you you know you just have to follow those voice prompts. 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:57.680 It's very, very simple. 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:11.599 So um so Steve, if coming to the kind of end of our conversation here, so if you had a magic wand that you could wave, what and and what where would you like to see the world um in in years to come from a defibrillation point of view? 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:13.359 What would utopia look like for you? 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:13.680 Yeah. 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:24.400 I think as I said before, it's cr it's getting involved in the 75 to 80 percent of people that die or have a cardiac arrest in the home and and how we we tackle that. 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:28.799 Um but you know, the more defibrillators are out there, the more potential there is to save life. 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:38.799 And and in addition to that, you know, I would like to see more people trained in basic CPR because it's something like 40%, it's not a a huge amount of people, really. 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:48.000 So the more that people would go for first aid training, including CPR, and see a demo of a defibrillator and see how easy it is to use, that would be that would be great. 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:54.079 And I think it's and you maybe have less of the people just walking past the incident when see it. 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:57.039 Yeah, or not doing anything, absolutely because they're scared effectively, actually. 00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:59.039 Yeah, and it's understandable because it is a fact. 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.559 I can remember being a paramedic, it's very stressful on as a professional. 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:10.559 So you can imagine the stress on a bystander or someone who's never dealt with a a cardiac arrest before, especially if it's a friend or a member of the family. 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.039 It can be very very, very stressful. 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:13.920 Yeah. 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:16.160 Okay, well, thank you for coming in. 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.079 Very informative topic. 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:29.440 And uh, you know, hopefully this will be an opportunity to get the get the voice kind of heard and get the kind of message, you know, out uh broader and kind of wider across the Stirlingshire area, but the Fourth Valley. 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:33.920 I think we've got listeners from across uh, you know, all all parts of the Fourth Valley. 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:45.119 Um and yeah, we'll continue to you know fly fly the flag for it and you know hopefully we'll you know we'll get some interest from the podcast and uh you know and some follow-up discussion. 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:45.839 Okay, great. 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:46.799 My pleasure to be here. 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:47.759 Thanks so much for the opportunity. 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:49.279 Thank you. 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:54.319 So that brings us to another end of an episode of the Sterling Business Podcast. 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.039 Thank you again to our guests this week. 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:03.519 Remember to follow us on the YouTube channel, on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:06.240 Until next time, stay safe.