บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Leading with Courage

cabbage patch down here. It's very nice. And so our spring sale is going to be on Saturday, so just in a couple of days. And our students make lovely things like these. They make vases, they make bowls, they make all sorts of items. And then they also make beads to make jewelry, earrings. Jen Rittenhouse: Gosh, now I'm wishing I had an earlier stopping time. Dr Kimberly Keith: necklaces, lots of things like that. And then the students make them in team production. So they produce the items that we sell at our sales. And then the earned income that we receive for the sales then goes back into providing scholarship funds for young people. It's a scholarship stipend and They get that and then they make more things and then we earn more money and then they get more scholarship stipends and it keeps going as a circle. And so that's pretty exciting, especially when you're like 14 and 15 years old and you don't have another way to earn some money to pay for that cell phone that you really want or that new bike or whatever it is. And it's like, we don't make them save it all up for. tuition or anything, it's their stipend to use as they choose. And it's a really unique program because it's in a liminal space between an apprenticeship and an internship, because it is an education space and it's concentrated on the learning every day, but also about the career and technical education that they're learning, but it has different kind of... outcomes than you get if you're an older student and you're doing an apprenticeship or an internship for a certification paperwork. And so, yeah, it's a lovely program. And I've been working here, you know, ironically enough, OK, on Monday is going to be May the 4th. And that's going to be my ninth work aversary here at Hilltop Artists. So I've been here since 2017. And yeah. Jen Rittenhouse: amazing. Dr Kimberly Keith: May the fourth be with me always. Jen Rittenhouse: I love that. So fitting! Dr Kimberly Keith: It is fitting. And so, yeah, that's what we do. And I have the privilege and the pleasure of being the director here. And how I got on that leadership path was before I was telling you, I grew up here on the hilltop and I went to this school. And so I'm very much of the hilltop from the hilltop. I'm a mixed race person who was raised by a single white mother on the hilltop. And she was always my inspiration about leadership and how to work, develop a work ethic. was really, she was 17 years old when she got her first job as a file clerk for Schwarshera, which was an insurance brokerage that today is known as Brown and Brown because of different acquisitions and growth over the years. But she worked there for 38 years and she had 15 different roles. within that 38 years and she was a leader and a manager in HR. And so I saw her working with staff and I knew what she did as a job. But even more importantly, I saw her volunteer work in the community. And so when I was really young, she volunteered for the crisis clinic and she worked on the crisis lines. And then she was on the board. of Comprehensive Mental Health, I believe that was the name. And was that the name? No, it was something like that. It was a sheltered workshop for people with disabilities. CenterForce, it was called CenterForce. It wasn't Comprehensive Mental Health, it was called CenterForce. And so she did that. And then later she was on the cultural council. She was on the Broadway Center board. She always gave back to community. So she worked corporate. but she was really committed to nonprofits and community here in Tacoma, Pierce County. And so she was my first example and she's still one of my best mentors and supporters for the work that I do. But she was the one that really instilled in me the importance of your human resources. So like your staff team and your people. And that's very much how I lead here at Hilltop Artists. know, they are, my staff are our number one asset. And so they need to be satisfied and happy and feel confident in their abilities to do their work. And then we need to set the stage for a positive organizational culture to occur with them. And then everything grows from there, the teaching and the working with the kids and being successful with the sales and the events and things like that. comes from having a really positive organizational culture from taking care of the staff. And so that's kind of the foundation of my leadership. Jen Rittenhouse: Well, and I know this because we talked about it before. You went to school and studied art, and that was also at your mother's encouragement. Dr Kimberly Keith: Yes, it was. I always loved art from when I was a little kid. And when I was in third grade, my teacher submitted a little drawing that I had made to the Tacoma Art Museum Children's Gallery. And it got there. And then we went to see it. And I was just like, well, this is my museum. You know, I'm in this museum. I'm like visiting this museum. My art is here. And so that's where I started really loving museums. And so I knew I wanted to go into the arts and study the arts. And my mom really encouraged me to do that because she had a kid at 20 and so she didn't go for traditional education. And she was very much in support of me doing whatever kind of education I wanted to do. if I was going to be a starving artist, then so be it, but she was gonna help me follow my passion. And so I did undergraduate art and art history studies at Evergreen. And then I started working within the first couple of years after college, working for the Children's Museum in Seattle. And I was there for nine years and I developed programs for kids that lived in public housing. And I did those arts and humanities programs in public housing for years and so all day. in the summer and every day after school. ran that for years and then was asked to help be on the startup team for the Museum of Glass here in Tacoma. And so I jumped at the chance to do that job, creating

community-based programs with Raymond Hall and other community partners. And so, yeah, that was kind of... my trajectory and that's when I met Hilltop Artists was when I was working at the Museum of Glass back in, that started in 2001. Yeah. I don't know if you can hear all the background noise. Can you hear that? Jen Rittenhouse: Just a little bit. It's always hopping in the hot shop. Dr Kimberly Keith: It is, but it's interesting because 6th period just started and 6th period has so many kids and is so energetic that the teachers have to use a microphone. Yes. And so our instructor, Mr. Mauer right now, he just got on the microphone and he's giving them, you know, the assignments for the day. But I think it's so interesting because They didn't always use it, but just this year, the classes have gotten just that little bit bigger and a little bit louder. And I was like, we have this built-in system. And so why not just, yeah. And so they started doing that. I didn't suggest it. I think they figured it out, but we have the system for doing events and stuff like that. And so why not? But in my office, my office is in the hot shop. Jen Rittenhouse: That's amazing. Right. Dr Kimberly Keith: And so I get to see all the students making things all day. And it's really inspiring when I'm trying to write a grant or having a meeting about fundraising and why it's important that we do this work. I get this reminder every day. But then as the day goes on, the noise picks up. And so now we have this new added dimension. Uh-huh. Yes. Jen Rittenhouse: Amazing. That's amazing. Well, and the Hot Shop has the best music. I think you should publish those playlists every time I'm in there. Those kids and their jams are awesome. Dr Kimberly Keith: They have some really great playlists. And this week we've really been in like the 70s disco and 80s R &B. So lots of Earth, & Fire. And then just earlier today it was like all Michael Jackson. And so that's interesting because you think it would be some of these contemporary current, you know, types of music, but the staff have to be in there too. And so they compromise with old school that kids like. And so everybody's a little bit happy. But there was a day last week that there was some techno stuff going on and I had to go out there and I was like, this is absolutely the worst music I've heard in my nine years at Hilltop Artists. And so I really don't want this playlist again. They're like, Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. No techno in the hot tub. Dr Kimberly Keith: Okay. but it wasn't even like techno. It was like really super fast and loud and this these contrapuntal beats and it was just like it was like raising my anxiety level and one of them was a cover of Just a Friend by Biz Marquis and it was like, yeah, it really grabbed me boys like that. You know, and it's like, no, we can't stop business turning in his grave. But yeah, and so that was a low point. And then some days when Mr. Mowers had enough, it becomes all Wilco and Jeff Tweedy and Grateful Dead and Fish. And it's like, okay, everybody needs to mellow out apparently today. Jen Rittenhouse: Yes! Okay, okay. Dr Kimberly Keith: Yeah. And then when I get to choose in my own office, it's usually Radiohead. Radiohead is good to work to. And I have this guy, Josh Cohen, who does like a piano interpretations of Radiohead. And so you can often like find that on my playlist. Yeah, but having a big sound system, that is definitely an added bonus. Jen Rittenhouse: Nice. I love that. After the Museum of Glass, where did you go? Dr Kimberly Keith: Well, my job was eliminated at the Museum of Glass. And of course, I was upset about that. And it was like, why is this happening to me? And then what do other people do? And so that's what spurred me to get my PhD. And basically what happened was like I had a position that was supported by soft funds. not from core operating costs. And so it was very much about working with community organizations, different types of community and a lot of minority community members. And so I was like, do other museums go through this? Do other museums have it set up differently? Does it work differently in other countries? And so I went to do my PhD in my postdoc in London. And I looked at museums, and this is art museums mainly, but how they engage with Black people as audience members, as artists, as staff, and all different means of representation of Black people in relation to art galleries. And I looked at London, New York, and then the Seattle Tacoma area. And... I was just a little bit of a statistic. found out, you know, many organizations, many museums that have a commitment in their mission or vision to working with diverse populations, that's all well and good. But if you don't fund it from the center, then it doesn't carry on, right? Because you can get a grant to like, we're going to work with, you know, X group and... then you build up the relationships and you do the exhibition and the program and the whatnot, and you might be doing that for two or three years. And then when that grant funding goes away, then the museum looks for the next grant. And often it's for a startup project and it's not to work with that same group that they made a relationship with. And so it's a really unstable way of doing collaboration. And it's also a really short-sighted, I think, way of engaging with community. But since it had affected me, and I told you like from third grade, I was museum person, you know, and that was my museum, the Tacoma Art Museum. And then I went into working in museums for over, you know, 22 years. the whole situation stymied me and I did my PhD on that. so, yes, it was in sociology, but it was using museum studies, culture studies, and lots of different types of theories to really look at it from different angles. And so, yeah, that's what I did after the Museum of Glass. I started Jen Rittenhouse: That's fascinating. Dr Kimberly Keith: researching museums

because I was angry. Jen Rittenhouse: Yeah, but it's also a brave endeavor to stare the problem in the face and try to understand it. That takes courage. Dr Kimberly Keith: Yeah, I mean, I really wanted find out actually a better way to do this work that can be more sustainable. But that wasn't the finding. The finding was like, oh, Kim, that happened to us, too. What are you what are we going to do about it? You know, kind of thing. Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr Kimberly Keith: I know that there's evidence of museums hiring more BIPOC staff as educators and curators. And so they're really expanding. the representation on the walls in the museums and then also who is coming to visit museums. And so I think that's really exciting. I know that just from, you know, just from the cadre of people that I met and worked with when I was doing my PhD and know that they're employed in museums all over the world now. And so that's exciting. But all of that learning about culture studies and about people and how they relate to the arts and looking at the class implications of museum participation, specifically looking at like Pierre Bourdieu and how he wrote about taste and how people develop their sense of taste and their aesthetic related to their class and their station. and life and their education and what they have access to or don't have access to. And then that creates who goes to museums, who doesn't go to museums. And then the whole like Tony Bennett's research the history of museums and how they are the places that show what's sacred and valued in society. And so if you're there and you're represented, you're valued and then if you're not, you're not. And what implications does that have for our communities, our society, our social interactions and relationships? even though I'm not working in a museum right now and deploying it the way that I researched it, that theory in the background and all the work that I did, I definitely bring to my work here at Hilltop Artists. And I think that's really important because what we do is we use glass art to connect young people from different social and economic and cultural backgrounds to better futures. Yeah. So we're using the possibility of making some glass as a means of engaging young people to get them here. And then getting to better futures starts with getting a good education. And so we are encouraging them to stay in school. We're encouraging them to participate in our program, which is glass blowing is a team activity. And so you have to build relationships. You have to learn how to communicate verbally and non-verbally with your team members that are helping you to make your art. And then tomorrow you'll help them to make their art. And so that's really important. And since we're doing it on the hilltop, we have students from every class and every ethnic and cultural background out there. understanding how difference is made and reinforced and engaged with is really important to being able

to successfully work with these kids. Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, you talked about human resources and like your impact on humans extends from your staff to the students, but then also out in the community. You're on boards, you're on committees. Can you talk about all of that work that you do and then what guides you to stay connected with the light as we live in the dark, it seems? Dr Kimberly Keith: Yeah, we have to be, you know, we have to commit ourselves to the light side of the force. And I always think of Yoda and it's like, do or do not, there is no try, you know? And so it's like, if you want to see the community in better shape, if you want to help something, if you want to see, positive change created, then you need to do it. And so I do that through like my mom before me being on boards. Like right now I'm on the Oasis Youth Board, Youth Center Board. so that's Oasis is an LGBTQIA plus Youth Center here in Tacoma. I'm on the Tacoma Community College Foundation Board. And the foundation raises funds to provide scholarships to people that go to Tacoma Community College. I just finished up being on the Juvenile Justice Task Force to investigate redoing our Raymond Hall Detention Center and turning it into a family and youth justice center. And so those have been my main things for the last few years. I mean, was also, when I did my PhDFs on the board for the Black Cultural Archives in London, and we built the UK's first Black Heritage Center, we regenerated a Georgian building in Brixton, and now it's a healthy going concern of an archive. And then I worked with as a representative of BCA worked with the Victoria and Albert Museum on a collection project and exhibition project for years. even when I was doing my PhD, was doing community work and board work. And it's just something that is really important to me. And right now I'm the vice chair of the TCC Foundation Board and then I'll be the next chair. I'm really kind of scared about, but it's like, have lots of practice, so I shouldn't be so nervous. And it's a great group of people and we're doing something that's really vital for the community. it takes all of us to make this happen, but I totally understand. Some people don't have the time, the resource, the inclination to do this. I don't have my own kids. I'm deeply involved and care about everybody else's kids because they're part of my community. I tell a lot of these students here, it's like, you're going to be taking care of me and my dotage. And so I need you to be a good critical thinker. And I need you to be able to make some decisions about me and what's best for me when I can't do that for myself. Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. Dr Kimberly Keith: And there's a couple of them that know I'm quite serious. And there's a bunch that are like, oh, Kim, you know. But it is true. mean, live with my mom and I a lot her as she is getting less and less mobile. And I know she appreciates that. And we have a good time. We still laugh. And not many people can live with their mothers. and have fun. We have like our Saturday breakfast exploration. We had a whole list and we've been to all the places and now we're researching new places and we play cribbage and you know, we do the things and not everybody has privilege of spending that kind of time with their parent. And so I'm really appreciative. I'm very blessed to have that opportunity. But I don't have my own children and I'm not married. And so the energy and the time that I imagine people like yourself that have children and spouses put into those other people in your interpersonal life, I'm able to put that time and energy into boards and doing some other civic engagement. I'm a person that I live to work rather than work to live, you And so it just works that way for some of us. Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yes, but we're all grateful for everything you do. I will happily sign up my kids to take care of you. Dr Kimberly Keith: we are. Well, we all have our strengths and we all have our purposes, you know, just like the incredible work that you're doing at SiteCrafting. And thank you again for helping us with our website. it looks so fantastic. And, you know, you are raising those people that are going to be in charge and running the world someday. And so thank you. for committing to do that because that was not gonna be in my response, in my wheelhouse. We would go extinct really as a species. Jen Rittenhouse: Yeah. Dr Kimberly Keith: We really would if it was up to me, you know, because I'll let you know, when I was with the Children's Museum, I did programs for kids that were like five to 14. And that's great. And I love people's babies who the people that I know, it's like, yeah, I love your kid. Your kid's great. Bring your kid over here. I love your kid. But birth to five in general. That's not my favorite, right? And everybody does have their favorite. For me, it's definitely middle school and high school young people. And so that's how I always knew. It's like, don't think it's my destiny just because I don't know how many times you got up in the middle of the night this week to take care of your kids. But I mean, that was like, that was not going to be my future. Too selfish. Too selfish. Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr Kimberly Keith: If you know that about yourself, great. Don't talk yourself into having kids and a family if you know you like sleep more. Jen Rittenhouse: Yeah. Right? Yeah, for sure. Dr Kimberly Keith: You know, talk to my staff. I have two staff that have two kids, each under six. And I'm like, I don't know how you do it. So and so is going to karate and so and so is going to, you know, dance class. And then you got the baseball and you got all the things. And then it's like, what's for dinner? You know, I'm amazed. I'm amazed. Jen Rittenhouse: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Or for our last board meeting, I was virtual because my 10 year old was planning a bird funeral with her

grandmother who lives next door to me. And I was like, I'll be there. I'm just going to be a little bit late. And then the bird funeral turned into a thing. There was like an itinerary. There was a program. There were not one, but two ordained reverends that attended and did readings. There was communion. Like she just like, Dr Kimberly Keith: Remember? my God. Jen Rittenhouse: blew it out and after all of that, I was just exhausted and then shifted to what's for dinner mode and then like at 8.30 I was like, oh, I missed that board meeting. Yeah, the cat that killed the bird was at the funeral in a carrier. It was a thing. was, but yeah, so it is a lot, but it takes all of us doing the work for the community. Dr Kimberly Keith: Uh-huh. Wow. See, and that's amazing. And the kids and the people that went to that bird funeral are gonna remember that and how it made them feel and how special it was and how unique it was. And then your daughter that got to arrange all the things, I mean, she got to have that extra responsibility and people actually did the things that she wanted them to do. And so that was a huge deal. huge deal. And now we've all got our special gifts and strengths and things that we want to do. And yeah, teenagers, older teenagers, young adults. Yeah, I'm, I'm super psyched because I have two trips coming up, one next week where I'm going to. Jen Rittenhouse: Yeah, uh-huh, it was. Dr Kimberly Keith: the graduation of one of our Hilltop artists. He's graduating from college down at the Appalachian Center Craft at Tennessee Tech. I've always been a mentor to him, just like some of the other staff, but I also. Since he was 12, so 14 years. And so this is a really big deal. And so I'm looking forward to spending time with him Jen Rittenhouse: Well, and he's been part of program for how many years? Dr Kimberly Keith: then in June, I get to be the chaperone along with one other staff person for three students that are going to participate in the Glass Fashion Show at the Glass Art Society Conference at the Corning Museum of Glass in upstate New York. And so that's pretty amazing. And these young people, they're so psyched. They've been making, they've been working on these costumes since last September. And the artist, Laura Donifer, I think this is her 26th and probably final Glass Fashion Show. And so there's a documentary being made about it. And the documentarian has been here twice to film our students making their costumery. so it's a pretty exciting. projects, all things considered. Yeah. And so this is like, things like this are highlight for me. I got to be a chaperone a couple of years ago, taking some students to Tennessee for the team takeover of the Appalachian Center for Craft. And that was fun. Kids came from all over the country and came together to do metal, wood, Jen Rittenhouse: That's great. Dr Kimberly Keith: glass and fiber art for a week and that was amazing. And for this fashion show, there's artists from around the world that are making costumes and then also another youth group in Chicago. I'm excited for our students to get to meet up with the students of Chicago that should be really great. And then to see all the demos and everything, it's pretty awesome. Jen Rittenhouse: That is pretty awesome. Dr Kimberly Keith: Yeah, and so it's work, but it's a really special privilege kind of work that I get to do that week. so no complaints here. Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. That's great. Well, know, SiteCrafting is nothing if not an internet company. And so we ask all of our guests, when did you first get on the internet or when did the internet first enter your life? What was that experience like? And do you remember your first username? Dr Kimberly Keith: Um, the internet first came into my life in 1997 when I was working at the Children's Museum. I'm pretty sure it was 1997. Didn't really know much about the internet, but, I was early adopter and fan of MTV they were doing this thing called the Brick Award. And I was like, I should get that award. I'm under 30. I did this thing for the community and blah, blah, blah. And so I had to get on the to do the application and do all this stuff for that. I think that was the first one. It was either that or when I applied do the Smithsonian Minorities in Museum Management course. But one of those was, it was definitely at the Children's Museum and it was definitely after hours writing some kind grant funding kind of thing that was for me. The name thing. I think it was, it might've been Rock Lady. or it might've been Kimba. And those are two that I still kind of use. We had this student in our program at Rainer Vista, Public Housing in Seattle, she did this drawing one day and the drawing was of her, I think, and glasses and in a tank top and very rudimentary 12 year old drawing and on the t-shirt it said, girl. And I was like, I love that. But I think my days of being a girl are over. And then my friend Amy said, well, you can be the rock lady. You're the rock lady. And then a few years not even that long after, I started curling the sport with rocks on ice. And then I really became the rock lady in my little children's museum circle and then Museum of Glass circle. I played on a mixed doubles team and a women's team and the resident team of glassblowers at the Museum of Glass. I had arranged for us to all go up and they could all try it. And this would have been back in 2000 and this would have been the fall of 2001. I was part of Granite Curling Club in Seattle Gabe still reminds know he's like oh that was so fun and we did that curling and that was like almost 30 years ago or 20 years ago 25 years ago and Jen Rittenhouse: Wow. Dr Kimberly Keith: it was fun. so, yeah, my friend Amy gave me that nickname it kind of stuck. think, Jen Rittenhouse: I love it. Dr Kimberly Keith: that would have been it. And so lots of connections. Lisa Sawyer's drawing and the curling. And then also like rock. Jen Rittenhouse: Yes, it's

so much dimension. I love it. Dr Kimberly Keith: Yep. Jen Rittenhouse: Yeah, Rock Lady sounds like someone who listens to instrumental radio head for sure. Dr Kimberly Keith: Yeah, I think so too. And she sounds really cool. I also remember that, you know, when I did, I went to college in 86 for my undergrad, I graduated in 90. I still had a typewriter, LED, you know, it was like so cool because it had like a little LED printout preview screen before you printed it on your paper. And so that was really huge. And then I was going to Evergreen. And so the LRC, my senior year, like in 89 got some of the first computers. So yeah, now I talk to students and I was like, yeah, I wrote that out with a typewriter. And they're like, what? You know, but, but yeah, but I really appreciated it. You know, so many decades later doing my PhD on a computer. Jen Rittenhouse: yeah, I bet. Dr Kimberly Keith: Yeah, that made a big difference. being of a generation and then also of a Luddite persuasion and not being tech native, you know, I still have a hard, I'm trying to learn this new and it's so simple, but it's like, whatever. We have a new system, Dext, where you put your receipts in and you got to copy your receipt and put it in the thing for the finance, because we have a new finance situation here. But I'm like, could somebody come in and help me with this again? You know, I try not to give up quickly, but I tell you, it doesn't come naturally or intuitively to me. But I do appreciate like a spiffy website. Jen Rittenhouse: Yeah. Yeah. Dr Kimberly Keith: You know, I remember having sets of encyclopedias or even doing my PhD, having, you know, four different library cards and going, going to the four different libraries. And that's how you did it. But now there's also so much stuff you can access online. And so I think that's pretty cool. But you also have to be savvy and skeptical. Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. Dr Kimberly Keith: about how you digest that information because it may or may not be accurate or true. You got to cite your source, you know, and then like you were saying earlier, it can be a bit of a cesspool out there. Certainly areas of dumpster fire on the internet, and so it's really the difference between our Jen Rittenhouse: Yep. Mm-hmm. Dr Kimberly Keith: my generation and the 12 year olds in this generation right now. I don't think it could be, I suppose it could be starker if it was between a boomer and these kids right now that we have in the classroom right this minute. If you think about COVID hit them right at the time when they needed to learn how to go to school. and how to build social skills in the kindergarten and first grade, you know, that kind of time. And they were under a Trump presidency, and then now they're under another Trump presidency and they're 12. And they just don't know what to do with themselves. They don't know how to put two and two together some days socially. And so that's fascinating. And then we're also we're in a

school. Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr Kimberly Keith: and everybody wants to have their favorite computer right next to them. And we can't have kids, especially in a glass-blowing class, messing around with their phones. young people have a lot to contend with that I didn't have to contend with as a child. Jen Rittenhouse: Yeah. Dr Kimberly Keith: as much as access has been increased and the breadth of knowledge that they can access, that's really great. But I don't know that it's the healthiest choice for them. It is. And that coupled with, actual community and neighborhood spaces being Jen Rittenhouse: Right, more is more. Dr Kimberly Keith: less safe than when I was a kid. I think that's really tough for this generation of youth. I didn't think of anything of riding my bike to Wright Park, by myself when I was like seven years old. just, yeah, you did that. That was your independence and you did the thing. But now even seeing seven year olds walking to school, like I walked to school. You don't see that much anymore. Jen Rittenhouse: Yeah. Dr Kimberly Keith: kids are gaining independence at a much older age. I think that is making them less resilient overall and over the long term. Jen Rittenhouse: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr Kimberly Keith: And so I'm glad I don't have to deal with it at home. I just engage with it here. Jen Rittenhouse: Okay. That's right. Well, thank you so much. Dr Kimberly Keith: thanks for asking me. This is fun. Jen Rittenhouse: Yeah, this was so fun! Dr Kimberly Keith: For my first time on a podcast, you made it relatively painless. And so I appreciate that. Jen Rittenhouse: Thank you. Thank you for participating and sharing so much with us. SiteCrafting: Hello. Hi. How'd it go? Jen Rittenhouse: hey producers. It went really well, it went really well. You know Dr. Kim, she's fantastic. SiteCrafting: I love her. She's my hero. I want to write her fan mail because she is truly my hero in this city and she like made me think about my future and what I want to do with it and I just want to be like her when I grow up. Oh wait that's beautiful. No seriously. She's the fucking coolest. No cussing a lot. But... Sorry, I get really excited. there was a cuss word that was dropped. Sorry. Jen Rittenhouse: cussing. You were just really excited. Yeah, it was really great. She talked a lot about Hilltop Artists, which are a client. I'm also on the board and just a big fan. It's such a great organization. They do so much amazing work. It's really easy to get behind. And then she shared about how her mom has inspired her career her career path from art school to her PhD and then to where she is today. And I think you're going to really enjoy listening to it. SiteCrafting: I am. I'm really excited to listen and be more inspired. Wow. That sounds really, really awesome. Jen Rittenhouse: I wore my Star Wars shirt for her because she is a Star Wars fan as we are here, so that was really cool. And yeah, that's it. SiteCrafting: totally great and with the earrings your outfit is just perfect. Producer approved. approved. Jen Rittenhouse: Thank you. All right, awesome.