บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Ethical Slut

broadcast and podcasting for for quite some time. But you're like 62 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:58.839 twenty writing is sorry, you look like twenty. I'm thirty five, but 63 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:01.839 thank you. Well, I'm gonna put that in my pocket and I'm going 64 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:09.839 to unfold it later. I uh. But you know, in LA, 65 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:12.519 with acting and writing, as anything goes, it's like it's it's just a 66 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:18.319 hustle until something happens. So, um, Maggie's husband and a good friend 67 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:23.360 of mine, UM Ryan Tillotson who runs straw Hat Media as you know, 68 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:28.040 and our mutual pile Alex Wall We you know, have just been working on 69 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:30.800 projects since college. We've been friends for a really long time. So, 70 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:36.040 you know, between shorts and an Instagram series and some features that we've written 71 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:41.399 that we're in pre production on, keeping busy and then um on my own 72 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.319 writing scripts as well, and then have a novel coming out this summer, 73 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:48.240 so that's exciting and just plugging away. And your novel is called The Fame 74 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:53.560 Fame by Misadventure, Right, what kind of novel is that? What is 75 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:59.560 that about? It's a dark satire sort of an analysis, humorous analysis of 76 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:01.959 our every worship culture when it comes to reality TV and sort of how we 77 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:06.240 consume media, especially in new media like this, and and sort of by 78 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:12.040 extension, how we consume human beings. Basically, like it's easy to other 79 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:16.639 than them, and because they're on television almost think that what they're dealing with 80 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:21.639 is not real or it doesn't matter because they're famous or they're rich, or 81 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:27.040 they're successful or whatever it is, and I think that there's a there's a 82 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:31.160 fine line between how that you know, it can be entertaining, but also 83 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:35.240 it can affect their real lives and our real lives because we sort of lose 84 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:42.600 our grip on how we contribute to when people like that suffer, you know, 85 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:45.279 like a Britney Spears or something like that. There's an element to which 86 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:47.639 when shit was going down for her, you know, people are like, 87 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:50.600 oh, she's just crazy, you know, she's losing her mind. But 88 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:57.680 you know, minus the entire media and public and everybody who just consumed her 89 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:00.800 until the point of, you know, just bringing her to a breaking point. 90 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:03.600 So I think the audience also has a responsibility and some of that stuff 91 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:08.759 as well. And so it's a it's funny but also very sad. Yeah, 92 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:12.360 so it's a it's a balance. Yeah, dark thus dark satire, 93 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:16.279 Yes exactly. Yeah. And you're you have a podcast, as you mentioned, 94 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:21.120 called History Rated R. So it is h and I know we can 95 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:25.720 say shit on this podcast. Is there are there words that are off limits 96 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:29.800 we can say? Well, I have personal words that are off limits that 97 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:31.639 I emailed you, Bob. But yeah, yeah, no, we can 98 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:34.959 say shit, we can say fuck, We can say whatever we want. 99 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:40.519 Great, those two those two are the are the but history rated r's there's 100 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:44.480 a lot of the F word on there, and so um, it's uh, 101 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:46.279 it's fun. I started. My co host is a seventy eight year 102 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:54.920 old former presidential speechwriter, and he's an old school conservative, um, which 103 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:58.560 makes for a fun balance because I'm a young liberal. But he's not a 104 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:03.120 Trump you know, conservat it's he believes in things like climate change in gun 105 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:05.879 control. So we have our disagreements where it happens, but also our common 106 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.720 ground. And it's fun, I think between the two of us sort of 107 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:13.720 the different perspectives. But also he's very, very wise and intelligent. So 108 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.879 he brings the history and I bring the blue color commentary. Nice. That 109 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:26.839 sounds like fun. Yeah, okay, so um, So apparently you have 110 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:33.639 had some shit happened to you, like along along the way, you know, 111 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:37.279 as you've been you know in the your connective word, yes and trying 112 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:43.120 to find yourself and something about you know, being in your twenties. So 113 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:50.279 let's let's hear some let's hear some of that what you got for me today? 114 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:54.919 I was married young, and I didn't it was my to my high 115 00:08:54.919 --> 00:09:00.759 school sweetheart that we started dating when I was seventeen, she was sixteen, 116 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:05.799 And I was raised religious and there was a lot of came from a small 117 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.399 town. So marrying that person was like the greatest thing anyone could ever do. 118 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:11.639 You know, like, if you marry your high school sweetheart, this 119 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:15.600 is like a gift from God basically, and no one tells you that. 120 00:09:15.639

--> 00:09:22.240 Emotionally, you're probably not prepared to confront, well not confront, but but 121 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.919 enter into a marriage with some experience under your belt. Obviously you know you're 122 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:33.480 I'm young. So married at twenty two and was divorced at twenty nine, 123 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:39.799 and so the twenties are usually a time when everybody sort of lives their best 124 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:45.720 life and figures their shit out and makes their mistakes and has their their drunken 125 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:52.279 antics and as my current spouse calls it, ethical slut people, and in 126 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:54.240 your time in life, maybe if you're open to that thing, you you 127 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:58.360 know, there's no shame. I missed all that, and so starting pretty 128 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:05.240 much at twenty nine, it was off to the races. And as Maggie 129 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:07.120 could attest to and Ryan, um, I was a bit of a mess. 130 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.399 But but there were some funny stories and some important life lessons that were 131 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:16.000 learned along the way, and there was a lot of there was a lot 132 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:20.559 of drinking involved in these decisions, which is, um, you know here, 133 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:22.600 I'm going to cheers to that. Yeah, right, meet you. 134 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:28.840 I'll cheers also because I've learned. You know, I've learned, and just 135 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.559 you know, we can kind of expand obviously as we go. But it 136 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.919 was I've been to a lot of therapy as well, so you know, 137 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.440 you emailed me and I was like, we can get as nitty gritty as 138 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:46.000 you want or keep it as loose, but a lot of therapy went a 139 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.519 long way, and I was especially when it came to therapy. I was 140 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:50.360 surprised at my therapist. I was like smoking a lot of cigarettes and drinking 141 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:56.039 a bunch and was shot nervous about like admitting to him like, hey, 142 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:58.919 I'm really kind of like not taking great care of myself because I'm going through 143 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:01.320 this thing. And so finally when I sort of brought that out into the 144 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:03.440 open, he's like, if that's what you need right now, that's okay. 145 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:09.679 And I was like, what, who gets You're giving me permission to 146 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:13.399 do something that it's usually typically so associated with shame, you know, personal 147 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:18.960 shame when it comes to it, And so I did things like I decided 148 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:24.679 drunkenly hitchhiking was a good idea and got picked up by a man coming home 149 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.960 from a construction site and his best friend and realized immediately like this could end 150 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:35.799 in my murder if the movies and television shows are correct. But I'd gone 151 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:41.279 to a concert and my phone died and I had forgotten to program in to 152 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:45.639 lift my new home address, and it dropped me off at my old home 153 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:50.679 address where I lived when I was married, and I was like, hey, 154 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:52.240 man, I can't this isn't where I live. And he's like, 155 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.240 uh, it's too bad. You gotta get out. My phone was dead. 156 00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:01.519 Oh no, So for whatever reason, yeah, I got out and 157 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.399 I was standing there and I was like, okay, what's my game plan? 158 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:11.000 Very very hammered logic coming through now my brain. And the first thing 159 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:13.799 that popped my man is like, just start walking. Just start walking, 160 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:20.200 see how far you can get. Maybe you can make it on Laurel Canyon, 161 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.360 which I got really far. Actually from that place to my new place 162 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:33.519 was probably about eight miles, oh yeah, which would be a really long 163 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:39.159 walk. Yeah if even if you weren't drunk. Um. So I and 164 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.080 I was wearing like boot that was not I was not prepared to make this 165 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.559 walk like fancy going out boots. I was at a concert trying to look 166 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:50.360 cute. But the first good idea was that I should start walking. So 167 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:54.799 I started walking, and the hitchhiking had not occurred to me yet. I 168 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:58.080 was convinced that I could walk over Laurel Canyon, which once that became very 169 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:03.759 dangerous. Then hitchhiking became a good idea. But I do remember there's this 170 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:07.360 um, there's this disparagement of the valley when it comes to Los Angeles. 171 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:13.720 People like the valley. And I remember I was walking up I had made 172 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.759 it past. I was on Melrose, going up past Melrose, and a 173 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:18.440 guy was coming out of some building doing something and I said hey, man, 174 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.159 and he looked at me like kind of scared, and I was like, 175 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:26.679 hey, you going to the valley and he goes no, and then 176 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:28.159 drives away. So I was like, Okay, I guess I'm not. 177 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.279 I guess I can't get a ride from a stranger, from a kind stranger. 178 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:33.960 So I get to Lorel Canyon and it's twisty turney and very dark, 179 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.799 and I

realized, like, I'd probably get hit by a car if I 180 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.720 do this on foot. So I was like, you know what, I 181 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.679 should just stick the thumb out like like I've seen people do, you know, 182 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:48.759 and maybe a kind motorist will pull over and pick me up. This 183 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:52.960 car truck finally does, and this guy coming home from the site and his 184 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:58.840 buddy and a dogger in the back, and he takes a left turn up 185 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.120 a part of like in the Hollywood Hills where it gets twisty turney and all 186 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.519 the houses are and things, kind of off of Laurel Canyon, and I 187 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.320 was like, oh man, we immediately detoured to the creepy, scary, 188 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:11.799 distant part and I think this is probably where I'm going to die. Maybe 189 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:16.240 I should get my life together as as the time goes on, and there's 190 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.080 a dog. There's a dog in the back and he has his head on 191 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:20.360 my lap, and I remember, hey, you have a really this is 192 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.360 a really sweet dog, and nobody acknowledged it or said anything, and I 193 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:30.600 was like, this, that means that means death. Yeah, lets his 194 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:35.080 buddy out, Yeah, yeah, come on, acknowledge the dog if you 195 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.919 acknowledge the dog. Then I think I'm gonna be okay. Um ends up 196 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:41.440 taking his buddy to his car, where he parked somewhere where it was free 197 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:43.759 to park. His buddy and the dog get out like okay, moved to 198 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:48.159 the front and it's dead quiet, and as we go down the other side 199 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.320 of the hill, you know, there's like little small talk like hey, 200 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:50.720 what do you do for work? And he's like, oh, I work 201 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:54.440 at constructions, you know, management or whatever, and I gotta be up 202 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.200 tomorrow again at four thirty. And then it's quiet for like ten minutes and 203 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.639 he pulls into a CBS parking lot and like I could tell that he was 204 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.039 also scared, like, oh, maybe I also made a mistake. I 205 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:09.200 don't know. Maybe the hitchhiker in this twist, this turn of events is 206 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.759 the one who murders me. And he looks over me. He's like, 207 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:15.039 hey, you cool here, I need you to get out. And I 208 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.080 was like, i was still like two miles away from home, and I 209 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.840 was like I'm just a little bit that way. He's like, I this 210 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.039 is good, and I was like okay, yeah, I mean he did 211 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.559 he did me a solid and saved me from being struck by a vehicle walking 212 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:30.919 over the dangerous part of the Lord. I don't know if you've spent any 213 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:33.679 time in Los Angeles and you know Laurel Canyon, but it's not that's not 214 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:39.000 a wise move to walk up that road, even in the daytime. So 215 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.799 I was like, I acknowledged the I acknowledge the help walk the rest of 216 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:46.080 the way home. Immediately put this in the group chat, and everybody was 217 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:48.000 like, you're crazy, what are you doing? And it's like, there's 218 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.399 been a lot of little moments of these stupid shit that happens to me that 219 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:58.320 are clear that they're happening because of grief or sadness or other things. And 220 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:03.879 it took some time to come around to h to accepting that that was a 221 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:07.159 big part of the reason and not just that I was having a great time. 222 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:10.679 Yeah, you know, well, I think you make a good point, 223 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:15.159 and I think what I've maybe never acknowledged on the on the three years 224 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:21.399 I've done this podcast is often, not always, but often shit happens to 225 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:26.759 certain people because we put ourselves in situations where shit is bound to happen right 226 00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:33.559 now. Sometimes it's out of grief or trauma, or you know, um, 227 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:40.799 just you know, unfortunate circumstances that we're in. But other times it's 228 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:47.080 it's because we're just not we're not thinking clearly, we're not we're not being 229 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.600 you know, we're not using our we're not using our wise mind, which 230 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:55.639 is psychological term when we're making certain decisions. So yeah, I mean that's 231 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:57.240 that's really true. And there's a lot of instances like that. But you 232 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:02.360 didn't get murdered, so that's amazing. And I did not get murdered, 233 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:04.799 not get murdered, and the truck driver thought you were going to murder him, 234 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:14.279 so yeah, yeah, so um other other examples of things you did 235 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:19.799 you know back then besides drunk chik drink, Yeah, exactly. Well, 236 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:25.160 and unfortunately, like some of these stories do involve a one time I drunkenly 237 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:27.359 took a school and this is always like what this became the pattern of like, 238 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.599 okay, this, we're using this, and I think this was like 239 00:17:30.640 -->

00:17:33.599 a big deal. And I think a learning point for me was self medication. 240 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:37.960 Not knowing that that's a real thing that people do. That doesn't necessarily 241 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.799 mean like, oh this is going to be a problem for the rest of 242 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:45.640 my life, but it's for sure a problem right now. And it was 243 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:49.519 always not always, but oftentimes I'd find myself away from home and sort of 244 00:17:49.559 --> 00:18:00.160 stuck in this position of of needing to get back and feeling sort of I 245 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.960 guess maybe you know there's some there's some kind of strandedness connection to too, 246 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:08.079 I guess my emotional state. But it was out for a joint bachelor bachelorette 247 00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:11.480 party and they had this big limit of taking everybody around. It was great 248 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:15.960 ended at this bar. Everybody goes their separate ways. This is I don't 249 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:21.079 know if you have ever taken a lift or on uber during like when there 250 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:22.960 were surge prices, and you would you know, you look for a car 251 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.759 at some point during the day and it could be seven dollars, and then 252 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.960 you could look during this window of high traffic time and it would be like 253 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:34.000 forty eight dollars. Yeah, And this is the time of like when the 254 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.960 lime scooters and everything were very, very popular, and I was like, 255 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.920 I'm paying forty eight dollars to go home. Now I'm still in the valley 256 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.319 at this point, and apparently all these stories start with me on the other 257 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:51.039 side of the hill and end with me ending up back in the valley and 258 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:56.240 the best idea that I had at the time was to take a Lime scooter 259 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:03.119 over the Koanga Pass another to nine miles to get home. And I unlocked 260 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:07.839 the scooter, I get on it and fall embarrassingly drunken immediately, but it 261 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.759 was like a noodle weird sort of fall, and I was wearing what I 262 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:15.400 felt like was like a really nice jacket, so I didn't want to mess 263 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.920 it up. So it was almost like a slow motion like ah as. 264 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:21.319 I kind of just rolled onto the ground, get up, sort of dust 265 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:25.359 myself off, look around. There's nobody there, and consciously think to myself, 266 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:27.599 I cannot do this again. If I do this again, some cop 267 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:33.599 somewhere is going to see me fall in this way and I'm going to get 268 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:36.839 arrested or I'm going to get a you know, what would be the ticket 269 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:41.960 if you were scootering intoxicated? Is that still drunken disorderly? Maybe if you're 270 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:48.480 going thirteen miles an hour. And so I just told myself, I was 271 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:52.279 like, you can't do that again, and I didn't. I in this 272 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.519 in this weird little, you know, scootery way, make it over the 273 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:03.160 hill seven and a half or so miles, going almost entirely uphill at like 274 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:08.720 seven miles an hour, and get pretty close to home and the battery dies. 275 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:12.319 Pick up a dozen donuts to eat out of the box as I continue 276 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:18.839 my walk home. Um. The lesson learned, I think, continues to 277 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:26.079 be the same um waking up with bruises and not knowing how I got them, 278 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.680 and things like this, and and and having to piece back some of 279 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:34.000 the pieces of of of these evenings of of of how did I how did 280 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:37.720 I get back? Why you know? Why have I done this? Why 281 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.920 did this happen? Um? I think the fun part of a lot of 282 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.880 the shit that happens to me is the shit that I kind of do to 283 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.359 myself. I don't know how much. I'm sure there's plenty of external shit. 284 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:52.319 I know there's plenty of external shit, but I have I do have 285 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:59.039 a good reputation of the the shit that I do to myself self flagellation you 286 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:03.440 mean afterwards, yes, exactly, Yeah, yeah, I can say. 287 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:08.480 I mean this isn't quite as you know, extreme as drunken hitchhiking. But 288 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:17.039 last week I was getting my nails done and I was trying to figure out 289 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:19.680 what color to get, and I was opening all of these bottles of nail 290 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:23.640 polish. And I do this thing where I hold too many things at one 291 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:27.720 time. I don't know if you do that. Like the phone. My 292 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:32.839 phone is always in my hand, you know, it could probably it should 293 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:36.119 just be glued to my hand. But I was looking at pictures and I 294 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:41.599 was looking at a nail bottle of nail polish, and I was also holding 295 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.039 all of the you know, when you go get your nails done. Don't 296 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.839 know if you know this. They paint nail polish on all these little fake 297 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:55.039 nails and they come in like these plastic things, and there's several of them 298 00:21:55.279 --> 00:22:00.359 on like a

ring. So I'm holding all three of these things at once. 299 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.759 I don't know why this is what I do. And the nail polish, 300 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.920 of all things, I mean, glad not my phone goes flying all 301 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.559 of a sudden, it to slip flop, flies out of my hand and 302 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:19.119 falls to the ground and splatters nail polish everywhere, which on the floor, 303 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:22.920 on the on the desk, you know, not a big deal. On 304 00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:27.839 my clothes, my nice clothes, you know, like stuff like that. 305 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:33.240 So so then I'm like, why do I do that? Why do I? 306 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.680 Why must I hold everything? It's a balancing act all at once. 307 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:41.400 So do you do what? What did you do? You feel like you 308 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.119 are able to sort of walk back why you do that? You know, 309 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.559 like, what what do you have your own? Oh, we're gonna get 310 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.119 psychological here. Why do I do that? I mean, like, that's 311 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:56.119 just my first question is I'm like, You're like, why do I do 312 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:57.640 this? And and so then my question is, yeah, why why do 313 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:03.119 you do it? You know? Like what? Yeah, I don't know. 314 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.680 I think there is an answer right now. I'm not the host back 315 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:11.759 off, no, but I will say there is a part of me and 316 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.640 I recognize this and I try really hard to not do this so much. 317 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:19.559 But but maybe that's a lie. Because I do have this podcast called The 318 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:23.240 Shit That Happens to Me. There's a part of me that maybe enjoys, 319 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:29.000 you know, um, sometimes being a little flighty, Like I'm like a 320 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:32.720 smart person, okay, but it's also fun to be a little flighty sometimes, 321 00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:36.880 like ha, look at this, I'm there's things flying, you know, 322 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:40.680 all around. Yeah, but I don't know, that's the best I 323 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:45.480 can come up with at the moment. That's fair. I did put you 324 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.920 up. That's what I do. So that's cool, Okay, it's and 325 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:55.319 so I, I, uh, what was the I just out of curiosity, 326 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:56.680 I think listening to some of the episodes and stuff. What was the 327 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:03.839 big inspiration for starting this show? Did you feel like you were accumulating shit 328 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:06.920 that was happening to you and you wanted to know what other people were going 329 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:10.759 to kind of go into it. The inspiration was mostly that I could just 330 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.400 tell my shit, but but no, it was also to hear other people's 331 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:18.720 shit. So I had this and and often the ship that happens to me 332 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:22.279 is good shit, you know, like funny, good good stuff. Like 333 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.440 yeah, like I managed. I didn't think that, like, oh maybe 334 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:29.960 I could have thought of the positive shit. I only think about negative. 335 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:36.319 I know, I know, but um, I managed to um get myself 336 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:41.720 on stage UM with I don't know if you if you've heard of um um 337 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:48.000 my favorite murder UM. Karen Kilgarriff and Georgia Hartstark before COVID were doing all 338 00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:51.680 these live shows and you know, they were, you know, really popular, 339 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.079 and they did a live show in Milwaukee and I managed to get myself 340 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:02.359 on stage with them for to tell like my hometown murder story. And you 341 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.720 know, it was like the kind of thing where I kind of like I 342 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:07.680 felt like I made it happen, like I I willed the whole thing and 343 00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:14.319 got on stage and told a story that that everyone thought. I mean, 344 00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:17.920 I mean everyone laughs when you're up there anyway, But um, I told 345 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:21.559 the story, and Karen and Georgia talked about me and my story for days 346 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:26.319 afterwards, and um, a lot of people in Milwaukee like heard it and 347 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:30.799 talked about you know. I mean, if you didn't listen to the podcast, 348 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.000 you didn't still didn't know who I was. But so but when that 349 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:40.000 happened and kind of um got got some small time notoriety, I thought, 350 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.119 oh, well, this is the time to start a podcast because this is 351 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:47.359 the kind of shit that happens to me. You know, I got myself 352 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.920 on stage. So yeah, the good ship, the good shit? Do 353 00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:53.920 you do you find that? Yeah? You need a balance, do guess 354 00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.400 how Now I'm like, wait, I should think of a good story, 355 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:03.440 some good shit that happened to me, just so I can balance out some 356 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.880 of the bad shit. It's mostly bad shit that people tell me. I 357 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:12.160 mean, it's mostly like you know, yeah, like there's some bad shit 358 00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:17.200 that's happened, but but it's funny bad shit also. I mean maybe at 359 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:18.880 the time it happens to you, it's not funny, but in retrospect it's 360 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:23.039 funny. So I have a hard

time when I think when I say this 361 00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:26.880 shit happens to me, or do I make the shit happen to myself. 362 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.119 A lot of the work right now is like a setting boundaries, being assertive 363 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.720 in places that I need to be communicated, being saying no. You know, 364 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:37.240 like, as I get older, thirty five has been for whatever reason, 365 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:42.480 like a different switch went on. It was the first time that maybe 366 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.400 not the first time, but you know, usually when when you have a 367 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.319 birthday, people are like, how do you feel, and you're like, 368 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:55.559 fucking the same the day after the yesterday, and I felt, you know, 369 00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:57.400 thirty four then, But thirty five was one of those things where I 370 00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:00.279 kind of woke up and I looked around. I was like, I am 371 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.559 not the big sensation that I thought I was copy and I'm still which is 372 00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:08.880 good. There's a level of like I grew up having specific dreams which can 373 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.640 still live in some place, but as I get older and I'm mature, 374 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:18.240 and I have to also be realistic and focus on what's in front of me 375 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:21.920 as opposed to what I don't have, you know, think about what I 376 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:25.440 do have as opposed to what I don't. And so many instants in my 377 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:30.279 life I look back on little shit of where I've just so badly wanted to 378 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.960 be tough, but all I end up doing is just like being nice in 379 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:41.480 a grumpy way. Like there was I was walking my dog once and he 380 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:45.079 was kind of like a challenge. My last dog. He was, you 381 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.799 know, behaviorally, so he's strong. And my neighborhood was full of dogs 382 00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:53.200 and a lot of cars people just kind of not paying attention. And this 383 00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:56.960 guy I watched. I stopped with the dog like a good distance because I 384 00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.680 could tell that this guy was not paying attention. He's like rolling up too 385 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:03.079 fast to a stop sign and rolls up to the stop windows down to the 386 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:08.039 stop sign, hands both hands on the phone, so maybe driving with the 387 00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:15.000 knee, I'm not sure. Pulls halfway through a stop sign, comes to 388 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.000 a stop and I'm standing right by his open window, and if I wasn't 389 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.640 paying attention, he would have hit me and the dog. And I got 390 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.039 the clear message in my mind of like, this is

your fucking moment, 391 00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:30.599 this is the time for you to be tough. You gotta tell this guy 392 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:36.319 off is this is dangerous. He needs to pay attention. And I go 393 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:40.960 hey, and he looks over, but he looks like he was totally to 394 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:42.039 know I was there. He looks over like a little kid, like was 395 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:45.480 like looking at Christmas presence. He's like, oh, And I wanted to 396 00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.359 be like, you're a fucking piece of shit, and I just said just 397 00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:56.039 drive safe. And then he drove away. That was like. And as 398 00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:57.799 he left, I was like, I should have punched him. I should 399 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:03.119 have done something that it's time to be tough guy. Yeah, And all 400 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:08.039 I could come up with was drive safe. So we got the message across. 401 00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:12.640 Maybe he's listening. I hope he's listening. And yeah, and Will 402 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:17.200 wants to tell him not only is he a fucking piece of shit, but 403 00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:19.839 he should drive safe. I mean that was the more important message. That's 404 00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:22.039 right. You can be both of those things, right, Yeah, Like 405 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:25.640 if you just call him a piece of shit, he might not have known 406 00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.799 he should be driving safe. Right, that's right, Right, I should 407 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.319 get the bumper sticker, drive safe, piece of shit, right, right, 408 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.319 it's a nice thing and then a backhand, you know, after the 409 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:41.240 compliment or after the kind suggest I'm pretty good at calling people out, but 410 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.200 I don't know. And my son's called me a Karen, and I don't 411 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:49.559 think that applies. I do not think I'm a Karen. And I asked 412 00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:55.119 him that's a very speci I know I am not. I know I am 413 00:29:55.160 --> 00:30:00.680 not a Karen. And I've asked my students who are in that generation, 414 00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.640 am I a Karen? And they assure me that I'm not. I hope 415 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:07.240 they're not just saying that yeah to you know, because I grade them. 416 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:11.039 But do you constantly ask do you constantly make like a server at a restaurant's 417 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:15.920 life? No? No, no, no, okay, but that's one 418 00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:18.880 point. Good. I don't. I don't do that. I but if 419 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:23.759 something is wrong, I am not afraid to call it out. So but 420 00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:26.839 I try to act. I think that's good. I know I'm assertive. 421 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:33.680 You know you're trying to be assertive, like, yeah, anyway, this 422 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:38.400 is not about me, Well, oh well, it's we can share a 423 00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:42.079 conversation. I think also, because I like have hosted things for so long, 424 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:45.119 I also have questions. I'm like, but let's talk about it, 425 00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:48.640 right right. Um, So I do want to ask you, though, 426 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:55.599 there's one other thing that you've mentioned here about, um partying with the Real 427 00:30:55.759 --> 00:31:00.039 Housewives. Did you party with the Real Housewives? I definitely want to hear 428 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:04.319 about that. Yeah. Two two of that well too, one from a 429 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:11.559 Housewives show and one from a vander Pump Rules. Okay, and I'm sure 430 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.960 you know where both of these nights end up. Now, I am somebody 431 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:22.960 when I partied with this person from Housewives. I am now out as a 432 00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:30.279 queer man identify as queer. At the time, this wasn't an idea that 433 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:33.240 I could make sense to me. I was still sort of living in this 434 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:37.640 like trying to make the binary make sense of like you're either straight or you're 435 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:38.880 not. You know, or you're gay or you're not, you're lesbian. 436 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:41.880 But I had, you know, friends who are trans and friends who identified 437 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:45.799 as queer. I'm binding. I understood some of these things existed, but 438 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:51.119 I didn't know that I could make it make sense for myself. And um, 439 00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:52.960 this didn't happen until much later that I was like, oh, this 440 00:31:53.039 --> 00:32:00.680 is who I am. But part of the confusion was during this single time 441 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:06.319 in my ethical slut days, hooking up with guys and knowing that it was 442 00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:10.079 something that I wanted to do, but not one hundred percent sure why or 443 00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:13.559 what it meant, but then also not giving it a lot of thought, 444 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:15.759 being like, that's just fine. Let's just like let it be what it 445 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:22.880 is. And so we go out for the Brandy Glamville a friend of mine 446 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:24.680 who has a podcast here on Straw. She I used to produce her show. 447 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:30.640 Actually she was having a birthday and my dog had just the same dog 448 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.039 that I was walking the store, had passed away, maybe two weeks or 449 00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:39.440 so before, so tough time. He was an important thing in my life 450 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:44.200 that transitioned sort of got him in my first marriage. Then he came with 451 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:46.240 me and we had, you know, our little relationship and he

was like 452 00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:50.839 my little copilot for so long. So it was tough to lose him. 453 00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:53.039 And so another grief period sends me into the spiral of like, well, 454 00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:59.000 let's time to party and go crazy. And we started at this mascuan food 455 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:02.079 restaurant. I don't I don't know if you've ever if you've met or heard 456 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:07.640 of Brandy, but in her company and I think she would admit to this. 457 00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:10.960 She can turn it up to like not just eleven, she can go 458 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:17.039 it goes higher. And I was in the zone of being like, whatever 459 00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:21.720 you say, like I'm gonna do because I just wanted to run away so 460 00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:27.799 much from We're at dinner and she she goes, hey, guys, I 461 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.200 know it's like, thank you guys all for coming out for my birthday. 462 00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:35.559 Will's dog just died, so I feel really bad for him. And I 463 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:37.200 was like, great, now I have this attension on me. I don't 464 00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.240 know why you needed to say that in front of all your friends, but 465 00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:44.119 okay. Which one of her friends was a very handsome, attractive man, 466 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:52.920 and I remember going to this this bar where they knew her and loved her, 467 00:33:53.559 --> 00:34:00.480 and we got like free bottle service. I think the manager what they 468 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:05.000 were They were sharing bumps of not Brandy, but the manager and certain people 469 00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.799 who had sort of tagged along strangers kind of just end up walking up. 470 00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:10.920 People are doing cocaine in the corner. I may have had some myself that 471 00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:16.440 that's to be determined. We won't talk about that. And this guy who's 472 00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:22.320 there is I'm just like, this thing's like a great idea. I really 473 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:25.800 want to go after this guy. So he comes home with me and you 474 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:31.239 know, we do the thing, and the next morning it's very awkward because 475 00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:37.119 the questions are all like, are you sure you're straight? And I'm like, 476 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:42.239 I don't know how to answer this question, so I guess I'm just 477 00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:46.800 not gonna and then getting a lot of text messages from this person afterward, 478 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:50.519 not forever, but you know, a week or two of like, let's 479 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:53.239 hang out again, let's say, and having no clue, you know, 480 00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:58.480 how to handle this thing that I had put in a box apparently my entire 481 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:01.039 life, or knew that it was okay, you know, to feel this 482

00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:07.559 way or have these these these hookups during my ethical slut days. Um. 483 00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:12.159 And so in a long way around, you know, it's like Brandy and 484 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:15.840 this wild birthday, and some of these experiences help lead to the fact that 485 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.519 eventually I become a more confident person. Who can I you know, claim 486 00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:23.599 my identity, come out as that thing, embrace that thing, live is 487 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:28.960 that thing. Um. So even in the wild party days, it can 488 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:35.639 still lead to some good shit happening very often, and I think you're lucky. 489 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:39.760 It's it's fortunate if you can do this, if you can move I'm 490 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:45.920 going to get psychological if you can move through the shit into what you can 491 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:52.760 learn or create or make sense of or you know, kind of claim us 492 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:58.440 as a result of you know, because like shit's always going to happen, 493 00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:01.239 like really bad shit is going to happen to us all the time, you 494 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:07.719 know, somewhere than others. And um, if we can find a way 495 00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:13.719 to you know, make some meaning from that, then um, that's the 496 00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:16.159 probably the best thing we can we can do with it at that point, 497 00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:22.039 right. So yeah, So that so that was something good that came out 498 00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:25.239 of yea that? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I think good things came 499 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:29.239 out of out of all of it. I'm somebody who likes to say also, 500 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:30.400 like, you know, I wouldn't be who I am in the present 501 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:35.519 without the past. I like myself, which is helpful. I have my 502 00:36:35.559 --> 00:36:38.920 bad days, obviously, but there's no I think a lot of people I 503 00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:43.360 feel always feel like people talk about like what are your biggest regrets? Yeah, 504 00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:49.000 and that's such a I think a horrible way to look at your own 505 00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:52.360 past, because what can you do about it? Like what's the point of 506 00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:57.960 Yeah, regret is not you know, is just not helpful? So correct 507 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:00.679 I don't really have any regrets. Luckily, there's no past of mine that's 508 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:07.840 like really violent or crazy or or you know, horrible. But still there's 509 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:10.840 like there's the ship that happens to me or to anybody that you might not 510 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:14.519 be proud of or embarrassed by, but at the end of the day, 511 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:20.079 it still brings you to, you know, ideally a more complete place, 512 00:37:20.239

--> 00:37:24.920 or at least a place where you're dedicated to doing the work of becoming better, 513 00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.519 becoming stronger, becoming more self aware. And I think you know, 514 00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:31.159 all these experiences are tied to that as well. I mean, I'm totally 515 00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:35.559 with you on that. Will I mean, I wish I hadn't dropped the 516 00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:42.400 nail polish on my new page Genom slacks that were kind of a splurt ruin 517 00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.400 it. I literally I came home, I took them off and I put 518 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:51.800 them on on the counter and I haven't touched them since because so I don't 519 00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:53.880 know what I'm going to do about them. But but no, I don't 520 00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:59.800 have any regrets. I try to try to make something out of everything, 521 00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:02.880 you know, learn a lesson in everything that I do. Go to bad. 522 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.880 So I've been I've had a very fortunate life, I have to say, 523 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:12.920 so, um, have a lot of privilege and opportunity. But um, 524 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:17.239 even when shit happens, I'm I feel so far I've been able to 525 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:22.159 make something out of that. So but that's what I tell my clients also. 526 00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:29.119 So yeah, it's not regrets are just unhelpful. It's like guilt. 527 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.760 It doesn't really help us at all. Right, Well, um, any 528 00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:38.199 other any other shit you want to talk about or questions you want to ask 529 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:45.199 me or interview for you. Yeah, Um, the I think it's sort 530 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:47.639 of saying like the juggling too many things at once. You know, you're 531 00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:52.159 like, why do I do this? Yeah, I'm somebody who who's very 532 00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:55.079 good at taking on probably more than I should because of the difficulty of saying 533 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.800 no. So I say yes to a lot of things and end up overwhelming 534 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:05.119 myself and don't to let people down. Um, and you know when that 535 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:07.000 all comes to a head, then you know, I'm talking to my therapist 536 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:09.960 and he's saying like, well, you know, this is sort of what 537 00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:15.519 happens as a result of juggling too many things at once, and it's the 538 00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:20.760 metaphorical spilling nail polishing myself. Yeah, I guess that that it that it 539 00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:23.599 could be, but I think that was I mean, I think that's when 540 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:30.480 I think about being married young and this shit happening to me at that time. 541 00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:34.239 It's interesting to see it now, obviously kind of with some clarity, 542 00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:38.639 but to know that that, I mean, that relationship served its purpose. 543 00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:43.000 But there was plenty of moments in there where, you know, we can 544 00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:46.920 look back and say like, oh, shit was happening, but I couldn't 545 00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:52.280 see it at the time, and there was it just it wasn't going to 546 00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:57.440 work, you know, I think between us and there, there was a 547 00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:01.960 lot of moments that that may it clear, but it kind of came to 548 00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:12.760 a head when I proposed an open marriage. And this is a just because 549 00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:15.519 I wasn't ready to say, do I view our c you know, like 550 00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:19.679 I was like, wow, I don't know how to let this go. 551 00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:25.960 And the specifics of this we can leave unknown. But that was a hard 552 00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:31.519 that was a hard thing to learn, or at least learning it the hard 553 00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:38.599 way that an open marriage is not for me and I. Luckily, when 554 00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:45.079 we kind of came back together to unpack things, we're able to come to 555 00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:47.039 the conclusion that like, yeah, you know, we should go our separate 556 00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:52.840 ways and kind of pursue things. But but in the panic of not wanting 557 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:57.440 to assert myself or establish you know, say no, basically saying like this 558 00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:59.639 is what I want. What I want is to get out of this. 559 00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:01.760 I think it's you sound like you want the same thing. So let me 560 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:08.159 propose something that well, basically you know, won't work as a way to 561 00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:13.239 sort of sabotage, not sabotage, but but in the in the long run, 562 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:17.800 get us around to where we probably needed to be anyway. So um, 563 00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:23.079 yeah, I mean I think that, and I'm grateful even too, 564 00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:25.840 you know, for that marriage and that relationship and that person, because it's 565 00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:29.800 the same thing. You know, it's the amount of like movies and TVs. 566 00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:30.960 I got my fucking X wife, my ex husband. I'm like, 567 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:37.320 it's such a it's such a cliche of the way that we look at our 568 00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:40.679 exes, but also the way that we It changed the way that I look 569 00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:45.000 at marriage. I was raised religious and am no longer, but there is 570 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:49.880 this sort of holiness associated with with marriage, and if you get a divorce, 571 00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:52.840 even socially or culturally, I think people are like there's still a little 572 00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:57.800 bit of the like your damage

goods. And when I was going out to 573 00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:02.960 start dating, I hadn't dated ever since I was seventeen years I didn't date. 574 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:05.599 I was in high school, like, you know, really date. 575 00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:08.400 So as somebody who's like finally on tender, like, oh the swipes, 576 00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:13.119 I can't wait to see what this is all about. It's it's bullshit, 577 00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:19.599 actually, but um coming from from thinking of it as like a holy institution 578 00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.800 of marriage to now sort of having the opinion that it's just an expensive breakup. 579 00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:30.239 You know, I don't know it it changed the way that I looked 580 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:31.800 at things. I'm somebody who when I make a commitment, I'm going to 581 00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:36.679 do a lot of work to keep that commitment. But if I'm doing a 582 00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:37.920 lot of work and it's not upheld on the other side, even when it 583 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:43.119 comes to friendships or other relationships, it becomes unsustainable, you know. And 584 00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:46.880 I think a lot of people I have met much older ages will say things 585 00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:50.920 like, well, well, we stayed together, you know, because that's 586 00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:52.800 the right thing to do, And I'm like, so you've just been miserable 587 00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:58.519 for twenty five years. Like there there is a version of this where it 588 00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:02.800 could have led to some finding of authenticity and independence. And I'm grateful, 589 00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:06.719 you know that that should happen to lead me to that place because now I'm 590 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.920 married to a wonderful person and committed to this person. It's not like, 591 00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:14.400 you know, throwing it away, like our marriage doesn't mean anything but the 592 00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:21.320 stigma, you know, and how we kind of feel like me especially like 593 00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.880 the failure element of it. You know, took a minute to sort of 594 00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:29.519 get past, and I mean now feel good. But but it was interesting. 595 00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:31.199 You know. I obviously didn't anticipate any of that stuff when I got 596 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:34.480 married, and to be doing it at twenty nine, I was like, 597 00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:37.280 I'm too young for this. I thought people got divorced when they were fifty. 598 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:42.360 This is not the age that you get divorced. But again, wouldn't 599 00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:44.840 be me in the present without the past. So it all worked out. 600 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.480 Yeah, Well, and anyone who says, you know, I stayed there, 601 00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.840 that's they're saying that in a very high and mighty kind of way, 602 00:43:53.320 --> 00:44:00.119 you know. So you know, you you do you, buddy, and 603 00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:06.480 you you do you like no one can like judge um judge it. You 604 00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:09.840 have to do what's what's best for you. So and you know, in 605 00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:17.280 our culture like childhood sweethearts are highly romanticized, you know kind of phenomena. 606 00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:22.679 And but it you know, that doesn't mean you have to stay in something 607 00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:28.880 that is not not good for you. And what you're saying that good for 608 00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:31.760 either of you. So have you ever seen Go Ahead? No? Not 609 00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:36.920 gone? It's a total other tangent. We don't need to walk down that 610 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:38.679 road. So off, I know, I was just gonna say, have 611 00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:43.760 you ever seen the movie, Um, I'm sure you have, um Eternal 612 00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:47.400 Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Yeah, yeah, so I where you know 613 00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:52.519 they basically they erase their mind so they can forget about the other person. 614 00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:58.440 But then they they they won't learn those lessons that you are that you are 615 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:01.000 talking about, right, Yeah, I think that's the I mean, that's 616 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:06.719 a common thing I think for life is like people want to do things to 617 00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:08.920 avoid work. And I'm sure you see this, you know as a therapist, 618 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:14.320 Like, that's that is the work, right coming and being open to 619 00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:17.599 change and open to work and open to not having the answers. And we 620 00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:22.480 see it in as big of things as like psychology, and as little of 621 00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:24.400 things of being like sprinkle this powder on your hot dogs and you can still 622 00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:30.360 lose weight, you know, like there's every angle of trying to eliminate the 623 00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:37.280 work, but unfortunately the only thing that's true about life is that the work 624 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:39.360 must be done. I mean, I was thinking this like an hour ago 625 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:45.440 before I jumped on here. Sometimes to get personal projects done, you know, 626 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:47.400 I have to make time or find time, and I'm realizing, like 627 00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:51.559 there's things that I'm falling behind on that I want for myself, and the 628 00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:52.800 only way to make it happen sometimes is like I gotta get up at five 629 00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:55.840 am, you know, I gotta get up at five thirty in order to 630 00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:59.800 be able to take care of this. I can bitch and moan as much 631 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:02.199 as I want about how pissed off I am that other people and other things

632 00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:07.000 are wasting my time in my opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that 633 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.599 those things give me money. So I don't I mean, I say, 634 00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:14.119 I don't have to do them, but they help when it comes to paying 635 00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:19.480 pills and paying rent, and so the personal projects end up getting sometimes the 636 00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.800 short end of the stick, and in order to make them happen, you 637 00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:27.920 know, it's an acceptance of of humbling myself and knowing like I have to 638 00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:31.920 do the work, and I think learning life lessons is a big part of 639 00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:37.320 that. I've seen people who are much older in age who behave like sixteen 640 00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:38.440 year olds, you know, and I'm like blown away that. I'm like, 641 00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:42.960 Wow, you made it this far and you're still reacting to these situations. 642 00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:46.079 A Karen would be this in this scenario, and I don't I don't 643 00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:51.280 think that you know, you have chosen a profession that I think usually doesn't 644 00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:55.199 go along with Karen. So I think you should be rest assured that you're 645 00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:59.599 you're you're It's very likely that you are not a Karen. I'm going to 646 00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:02.239 give you my son's phone number and you can call him and say, hey, 647 00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:06.119 I just talked to your mother for like an hour and she is not 648 00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:13.199 a parent, so you stop calling her that exactly. Yeah. Well, 649 00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:16.000 well, I really enjoy talking to you. I want to thank you so 650 00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:21.039 much for coming on, and I want to wish you a lot of luck 651 00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:27.679 with your all of your projects, your podcast History Rated R, your upcoming 652 00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:32.280 novel, Fame by Misadventure, and all of the other, all the other 653 00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:40.239 things any anywhere else we can see you in the near future. No upcoming 654 00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:45.880 film or TV projects. Currently, I was in a feature film called The 655 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:51.079 Dinner Parting, which has made its festival circuit run so nice. I'm hoping 656 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.559 within twenty twenty three will be the year that you know, it'll be on 657 00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:58.800 Amazon or Hulu or whatever where people can constume they're working out the deal. 658 00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:02.719 But if people want to take notes about the thing, it's like I have 659 00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:07.880 these things have coming up that aren't released. So if people like these dumb 660 00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:10.719 stories that I told or the tambre of my voice, and they want to 661 00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:15.360

know more about me, take out your yellow legal pad and write down the 662 00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:19.239 name of my book and the name of my movie, The Dinner Party, 663 00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:22.840 and be sure to google it periodically until it becomes available. I think I 664 00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:28.239 think that's reasonable. It's a request. But like I said, life is 665 00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.360 work. Yeah, so don't fucking dodge the work. Listeners, do the 666 00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:37.639 work and support me, don't. It's about my value. Be a fucking 667 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:40.719 asshole whatever. Whatever That guy was who yes, exactly, but Drive said, 668 00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:45.760 yeah, yeah, okay, that was Will Sterling on this show today, 669 00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:50.159 And um, Maggie, he's a friend of yours. Huh he is, 670 00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:52.119 Yeah, we've known each other for a long time. We met in 671 00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:57.360 college. Nice, so um. So you've known him like all through like 672 00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:02.880 those days he was talking about being marriage was childhood sweetheart and unfortunately getting divorced 673 00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:07.239 and everything like that. Yeah, he's actually he's one of Ryan's best friends. 674 00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:12.960 So I really know him more because of Ryan. Although I knew Will 675 00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:16.199 and I knew each other before Ryan and I were an item because we all 676 00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:20.440 kind of hunk. We all they were in the film department. Yeah, 677 00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:22.079 Will was in the film department. They were in the film department together, 678 00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:27.039 and one of my close friends is close with them, and so there was 679 00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:30.639 this kind of whole group of group of us. But yeah, I did. 680 00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:36.920 I knew his first wife and was there for that. I didn't go. 681 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:38.840 I think Ryan was at the wedding. Maybe maybe not. I don't 682 00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:43.239 know when they got married exactly, but but yeah, I've seen a lot. 683 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:46.400 I've seen a lot of it. And I have the the the group 684 00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:52.400 chat text message that he referenced in his story when he hitchhiked over Laurel Canyon. 685 00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:55.199 So I pulled it up during the interview to look at it, and 686 00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:59.239 I was like, yeah, there it is, and the response from the 687 00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:02.719 group chat was was very funny. Let's hear. It was like, what 688 00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:06.960 are you talking about? Why hasn't done this? You want to hear the 689 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:09.679 message I do, or you want to hear the responses both. I want 690 00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:14.719 to hear already heard the story. I suppose one thing he left out I 691 00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:21.480 can

tell you is that he had stopped at Jack in the Box on the 692 00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.119 walk and so he did eat something on the way. Okay, oh, 693 00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:30.519 and some seven eleven tikidos when he got home. Did you all think, 694 00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:32.440 like, what the hells are wrong with you? Will? That you would 695 00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:38.119 do such a thing? Um? Well, our friend Arturou said, wow, 696 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:42.000 good luck on the toilet Maniana. I guess after the Jack in the 697 00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:45.920 Box and the tikidos? Yeah, Will said he had been on a Hobbits 698 00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:53.039 journey. Um what else? Our friend Jill said, file under multiple things 699 00:50:53.039 --> 00:51:01.400 a woman should probably never ever attempt. I asked, did you walk Dave 700 00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:05.920 and have a shot when you got home? And he did? He said 701 00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:07.559 he did walk a dog when he got home. The dog's name is but 702 00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:12.719 no, Dave was Dave. That was his old dog, Yeah, Okave 703 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:16.559 Dave. Another friend Sam said, I don't really remember the plot of Homeward 704 00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:21.360 Bound two Lost in San Francisco. But I think it's basically that. So 705 00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:24.480 that was that was how that was the responses he got from our group chat 706 00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:31.400 Okay after he shared his journey. Yeah, so I think, you know, 707 00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:38.119 kind of like um Noam who shared a lot of stories after have you 708 00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:44.280 know, um maybe drank too much and making you know, poor decisions. 709 00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:50.920 Um, yeah, I think that he's he has. So the episode kind 710 00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:54.079 of you know, turned a little bit talking about all of these like ha 711 00:51:54.079 --> 00:52:00.199 ha funny things like he almost got murdered because he was hitchhiking to eat. 712 00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:05.400 Philosophical you know, questions about you know, what we can learn from our 713 00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:10.079 mistakes and meaning we can draw and you know, I wouldn't be my present 714 00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:15.360 self without my past self, so you know, um yeah, so I 715 00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:22.519 got to kind of flex my my humor and my psychology muscles in the episode 716 00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:25.559 with Will today, which was all great. Yeah I think so. And 717 00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:30.559 you know Will is also one to to wax philosophical, so for sure I 718 00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:34.360 think he was. He was really in a day game today too, So 719 00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:37.199 I think it was a good It was a good conversation. Yeah, it 720 00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:42.400 was great. So everyone should look for his podcast history Rated R and his 721 00:52:42.559 --> 00:52:50.719 novel fame by misadventure, and the dinner parting is maybe the movie, isn't 722 00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:53.119 that? What was called dinner party? I think dinner party party, but 723 00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:57.519 it sounded like he stretched that word out, but I could be wrong. 724 00:52:58.119 --> 00:53:01.679 Dinner party. Well, A good way I'd say to to keep up with 725 00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:06.800 him would be to go and follow him on Instagram, and he is Will 726 00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:10.599 Sterling underscore I think, Yeah, there's an underscore at the end. But 727 00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:13.920 you'll know, you'll see him. There's a little you know, there's like 728 00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:19.079 a fur coat picture, that's a picture of his new Frankenstein tattoo. Let's 729 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:23.559 get some picks with with a eyeliner. You'll you'll you'll know it's him when 730 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:27.440 you see it. You know. Well, I will say I almost mentioned 731 00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:30.960 this to him and then just opted not. But when I googled him, 732 00:53:31.719 --> 00:53:36.639 there are some there are some, um, you know, nice pictures of 733 00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:40.239 Will. He's a nice looking guy. And and there's there's there's one picture 734 00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:45.800 like kind of with his shirt open and looks like maybe he did some like 735 00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:50.039 you know, he works out. It could tell that he Let's just put 736 00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:53.000 it that way. You could tell that Will works out, and he does 737 00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:57.320 work out. Yeah, so maybe he did some modeling too. In his 738 00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:02.639 he he did a lot of pause playing as a Superman. Actually, oh 739 00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:06.760 so he got pretty buff for a while. He's he's he's tooped it down 740 00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:08.639 a little bit in recent years, but he did. He did get really 741 00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:15.119 into fitness and does does a pretty convincing Superman. So well, yeah, 742 00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:19.599 I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to follow up with him about about that 743 00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:24.000 Superman. So I'm like, okay, yeah, all right, yeah. 744 00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:30.800 Well thanks Maggie, and thanks everyone, and we'll see you next time. 745 00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:35.880 Thanks for listening to my ship. I really appreciate it. Come back and 746 00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:38.039 hear more shit next time on the Ship that Happens to Me podcast? Do 747 00:54:38.079 --> 00:54:43.639 you think I've said shit enough for one podcast episode? Tune in next time 748 00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:52.519 to the Ship that Happens to Me Podcasts. You Got a Baby