บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ The Cash-Flow Trap That Takes Down Growing Roofing Companies | Ryan Holliday

with Rayan Holliday, co -founder of 00:02:13.909 --> 00:02:17.449 Inc. and now vice president of customer success 00:02:17.449 --> 00:02:21.770 at Vami AI. We discuss why some contractors still 00:02:21.770 --> 00:02:25.409 resist technology, how AI is changing the claims 00:02:25.409 --> 00:02:28.789 process and the basic problems roofing companies 00:02:28.789 --> 00:02:31.530 continue to ignore, from answering the phone 00:02:31.530 --> 00:02:34.550 to maintaining enough cash reserves to survive 00:02:34.550 --> 00:02:37.449 insurance payment delays. Rayan also reflects 00:02:37.449 --> 00:02:41.110 on building Inc. starting a new chapter and how 00:02:41.110 --> 00:02:43.689 entrepreneurship and serious health challenges 00:02:43.689 --> 00:02:46.490 change this definition of success. Before we 00:02:46.490 --> 00:02:49.229 get into the conversation, subscribe to our YouTube 00:02:49.229 --> 00:02:51.629 channel and if you are listening this on Apple 00:02:51.629 --> 00:02:54.550 podcasts, leave us a five -star review. Let's 00:02:54.550 --> 00:03:00.389 dive in. Welcome to the Roofing Millionaires 00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:02.469 podcast, Ryan. It's a pleasure to have you on 00:03:02.469 --> 00:03:04.949 the show today. How are you feeling and how has 00:03:04.949 --> 00:03:07.770 been this year for you so far? Feeling great. 00:03:08.300 --> 00:03:11.719 This year has been fantastic. I had a pretty 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:15.039 big change in my life where I transitioned from 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:19.060 my company, Inc, to a new company. And so Inc 00:03:19.060 --> 00:03:23.340 is a payments company that I co -founded nearly 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:27.120 10 years ago. And now I am the vice president 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.659 of customer success over at Wami AI. So still 00:03:29.659 --> 00:03:32.639 within the same industry, but excited for the 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:35.889 new opportunity. Okay. I didn't know that by 00:03:35.889 --> 00:03:38.889 the way. Thank you. I have my questions about 00:03:38.889 --> 00:03:41.449 ink, but we'll definitely discover what you are 00:03:41.449 --> 00:03:44.490 doing with this new venture as well. But before 00:03:44.490 --> 00:03:46.669 that, would you briefly introduce yourself for 00:03:46.669 --> 00:03:49.270 the audience? So people who are either watching 00:03:49.270 --> 00:03:52.389 or listening to this show, they know that how 00:03:52.389 --> 00:03:54.729 did you end up in the industry? Whereas I am 00:03:54.729 --> 00:03:57.110 assuming a lot of folks already know you, but 00:03:57.110 --> 00:03:59.949 even if someone doesn't know the experience and 00:03:59.949 --> 00:04:02.889 the exposure that you have in the roofing industry, 00:04:03.270 --> 00:04:06.009 so would you like? to introduce yourself deeply. 00:04:07.270 --> 00:04:10.650 Sure. So I'm Ryan Holliday. I am the co -founder 00:04:10.650 --> 00:04:13.689 of Inc and Inc is a payments company that was 00:04:13.689 --> 00:04:18.089 built to manage and process property claim checks. 00:04:18.430 --> 00:04:21.170 And our goal at that company is to eliminate 00:04:21.170 --> 00:04:23.790 paper checks entirely from property claims. I 00:04:23.790 --> 00:04:28.110 had gotten into the industry as a roofing salesman. 00:04:28.149 --> 00:04:30.889 And so when I moved to Florida back in 2016, 00:04:30.889 --> 00:04:33.509 I got started with a company in Jacksonville. 00:04:33.660 --> 00:04:36.920 started learning the industry and my first year 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:40.860 in that business, I just experienced what it 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:44.439 was like to deal with property claims and discovered 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:48.959 that it was quite coversome to deal with the 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.660 payments that the carriers had issued. So I had 00:04:51.660 --> 00:04:53.860 kind of out of that frustration of dealing with 00:04:53.860 --> 00:04:56.220 property claim checks, my business partner, who 00:04:56.220 --> 00:04:57.939 was a public adjuster and I got together one 00:04:57.939 --> 00:05:00.040 day and we decided to put an end to the madness 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:03.259 as we call it. And that was the day that we you 00:05:03.259 --> 00:05:06.040 know, came up the idea for Inc. Okay, that's 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:09.519 amazing. And I would just say one thing here 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:13.279 that as you are not part of Inc anymore, do you 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:16.079 mind discussing that what Inc is doing and what 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:19.860 have you been doing with the Inc and how are 00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:24.000 you guys operating? Or do you feel that now your 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:27.079 sole purpose of serving is with the new company 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.620 and we should have this interview for the new 00:05:29.620 --> 00:05:33.709 company that you're working with. Yeah, so Inc 00:05:33.709 --> 00:05:37.750 is obviously still growing. We have a tremendous 00:05:37.750 --> 00:05:41.829 team in place over there and now they are really 00:05:41.829 --> 00:05:44.670 growing into some more enterprise servicing roles 00:05:44.670 --> 00:05:47.589 in the sense that, you know, you have a lot of 00:05:47.589 --> 00:05:49.769 different stakeholders who are involved with 00:05:49.769 --> 00:05:52.050 property claim payment. You know, you have the 00:05:52.050 --> 00:05:54.910 insurance company, you have the mortgage company, 00:05:55.189 --> 00:05:57.930 you have obviously the insureds. who are receiving 00:05:57.930 --> 00:06:00.709 the funds and then they have to pay the professionals 00:06:00.709 --> 00:06:02.110 that they're working with. So you could have 00:06:02.110 --> 00:06:04.629 claims professionals like an insurance company, 00:06:04.870 --> 00:06:07.170 or I'm sorry, a property attorney, you get a 00:06:07.170 --> 00:06:09.569 public adjuster, and they also have contractors 00:06:09.569 --> 00:06:12.470 who need to be paid to repair the property. So

00:06:12.470 --> 00:06:15.149 all these different entities that are part of 00:06:15.149 --> 00:06:18.529 the process that Inc. Services you know, now 00:06:18.529 --> 00:06:20.910 we're really moving more into partnerships with 00:06:20.910 --> 00:06:24.209 the mortgage companies. And that's exciting because 00:06:24.209 --> 00:06:27.209 we can obviously speed the process up for everybody, 00:06:27.209 --> 00:06:31.189 but really for those entities, we are saving 00:06:31.189 --> 00:06:33.689 them a tremendous amount of time and frustration 00:06:33.689 --> 00:06:36.009 and just having to deal with a paper check. So 00:06:36.009 --> 00:06:39.050 that's where ink is now. I imagine that over 00:06:39.050 --> 00:06:40.910 the next couple of years, you're going to see 00:06:40.910 --> 00:06:43.970 a lot of advancement on the enterprise side of 00:06:43.970 --> 00:06:46.449 the fence with a lot more mortgage partnerships 00:06:46.449 --> 00:06:50.740 and Hopefully some adoption soon from the insurance 00:06:50.740 --> 00:06:53.540 companies because our goal has always been and 00:06:53.540 --> 00:06:55.480 always will be to eliminate that paper check 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.860 for the process. So that way folks can be paid 00:06:58.860 --> 00:07:02.399 expeditiously. So that's where ink is. And then, 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:05.600 you know, for me, I feel like my contributions 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:10.069 to ink is a company kind of. plateaued if you 00:07:10.069 --> 00:07:13.670 will, I think we have some very talented individuals 00:07:13.670 --> 00:07:15.930 on that team who are going to take the company 00:07:15.930 --> 00:07:18.889 much further than I could at this point. And 00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:23.689 there was an opportunity at whammy AI and whammy 00:07:23.689 --> 00:07:28.019 is a platform that's designed for claim auditing 00:07:28.019 --> 00:07:31.019 and the long and short of how to describe WANME 00:07:31.019 --> 00:07:33.600 because it has so many fantastic features, but 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.660 the best way to describe it is that you can ingest 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:39.240 all of the claim information that you need to 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.939 so that everything can be analyzed from the policy 00:07:41.939 --> 00:07:45.980 to the damage photos, to the correspondence regarding 00:07:45.980 --> 00:07:50.540 the claim. Just essentially making sure that 00:07:50.540 --> 00:07:52.860 all the information is there that's needed either 00:07:52.860 --> 00:07:57.439 for litigation or defense of that certain matter. 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:02.040 So it's an agnostic platform that is built for 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:04.959 everybody who is working in claims. So we have 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:08.459 property attorneys, personal injury attorneys, 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.439 forensics companies, insurance companies, contractors. 00:08:12.660 --> 00:08:14.399 We have all sorts of customers that are taking 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.500 a look at this product to see how it's going 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:21.149 to help them manage their workflow. Okay, now 00:08:21.149 --> 00:08:23.329 before we talk about claim audit and everything 00:08:23.329 --> 00:08:26.649 that you have just mentioned Let me ask you that 00:08:26.649 --> 00:08:29.930 you are the co -founder of ink and you just mentioned 00:08:29.930 --> 00:08:33.309 that now it is developing into an enterprise 00:08:33.309 --> 00:08:37.590 enterprise solution, so What are the challenges 00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:41.450 that you feel ink will be facing because I still? 00:08:41.970 --> 00:08:44.090 See like before this interview. I was talking 00:08:44.090 --> 00:08:46.750 to some of the contractors and they still have 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:50.500 that old mindset I would say that I can uh, have 00:08:50.500 --> 00:08:54.200 someone in house or, and I can like handle all 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:57.159 of this by myself instead of having a software 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.059 handling the insurance payments and the mortgage 00:09:00.059 --> 00:09:03.600 and everything for me. Sure. So everybody's welcome 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:05.980 to run their business the way they like. I would 00:09:05.980 --> 00:09:08.779 say that the majority of folks these days are 00:09:08.779 --> 00:09:11.759 more apt to use technology to solve the problem. 00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:15.460 And statistically, the number of people who would 00:09:15.460 --> 00:09:18.279 rather pay for things electronically is certainly 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:20.700 in the majority these days. So there's, there's 00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:23.259 going to be stragglers and eventually they'll, 00:09:23.259 --> 00:09:26.419 you know, grow out of it, as I say, because they're 00:09:26.419 --> 00:09:29.220 just going to end up ultimately retiring. And 00:09:29.220 --> 00:09:31.679 then the fresh faces are going to come into the 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:33.659 industry. And I would say that most of the up 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:37.440 and comers are technology forward. So. Okay. 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:40.100 And you talk a lot about contractors' mats. You 00:09:40.100 --> 00:09:42.799 talk about like sales activities and non -sales 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:45.779 activities. So what is contractors' mats to you? 00:09:46.379 --> 00:09:51.340 What does it mean? I'm sorry. Contractors. Maths, 00:09:51.419 --> 00:09:54.240 like I've seen you in the videos you were talking 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:57.419 about, like there are non -sales activities and 00:09:57.419 --> 00:10:00.759 sales activities that roofing contractors are 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:03.919 indulged in, but you need to focus to be focusing 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:07.120 upon the sales activities that are in your business. 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:10.700 That was like an old video that you had on YouTube, 00:10:11.220 --> 00:10:15.059 but are you familiar? Like, do you remember discussing 00:10:15.059 --> 00:10:17.279

all of that? It might've been a little while 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:22.220 ago. I put out. numerous videos, but I don't 00:10:22.220 --> 00:10:27.240 recall that conversation. Okay. So I, you know, 00:10:28.779 --> 00:10:34.500 I think that contractors in particular are very 00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:38.340 proud of what they've built if they've, you know, 00:10:38.500 --> 00:10:41.720 been successful in growing a company. And sometimes 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:44.779 when you do that, once you get to a certain point, 00:10:45.139 --> 00:10:47.620 you want to hang on to that success and it's 00:10:47.620 --> 00:10:51.360 difficult to change. Right. And contractors, 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:54.399 sometimes once they have found something that 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:57.019 works and works well, they stick with that and 00:10:57.019 --> 00:11:00.100 they don't change from that. And that's fine. 00:11:00.220 --> 00:11:03.240 You know, I'm not here to change anybody's business. 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:05.840 I'm here to present opportunities that could 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:08.440 help them manage their business more effectively. 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:10.460 It could save them time. That's what I'm all 00:11:10.460 --> 00:11:13.139 about. I'm a process guy. I like solving problems. 00:11:13.340 --> 00:11:16.679 I like keeping things moving efficiently and 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:19.620 effectively. And that's really the goal of bank, 00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:22.419 right? Because when you're dealing with a paper 00:11:22.419 --> 00:11:25.539 payment that needs to be managed and endorsed 00:11:25.539 --> 00:11:28.919 and verified by numerous parties, obviously, 00:11:29.539 --> 00:11:31.700 you know, the only ways that you can get that 00:11:31.700 --> 00:11:35.179 done are by physically taking that, you know, 00:11:35.299 --> 00:11:38.500 check around town or mailing it around. And that's 00:11:38.500 --> 00:11:41.100 all just an integrated process. And we think 00:11:41.100 --> 00:11:44.679 you can manage that process digitally. So again, 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:47.960 it's really up to the folks that are using the 00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:50.779 platform and how they want to use it, but not 00:11:50.779 --> 00:11:54.259 every aspect of the ink platform needs to be 00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:56.799 used in your process. And so I feel like you 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:01.980 have the option to kind of mold the way ink works 00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:04.320 around your current process and make the best 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:07.740 of it. Right. But again, some contractors are 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:09.659 old school, like you said, and they just don't 00:12:09.659 --> 00:12:11.500 want to change and they just want to keep doing 00:12:11.500 --> 00:12:15.779 things the way that they used to. So. Okay. And 00:12:15.779 --> 00:12:18.259 speaking of that, would you walk me through like 00:12:18.259 --> 00:12:21.159 what you are doing with the claim audits that 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:24.700 you just mentioned with this new platform considering 00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:27.519 the fact that you mentioned that not every feature 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:30.399 that a platform has needs to be used in your 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:33.840 business or in your process. So what are you 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.580 exactly doing here and how it is going to help 00:12:37.580 --> 00:12:40.509 someone who is running a roofing company? So 00:12:40.509 --> 00:12:44.049 I would say that with, with Whammy, I'm not sure 00:12:44.049 --> 00:12:47.649 that Whammy is extremely applicable to a roofing 00:12:47.649 --> 00:12:50.570 company. Really it's more for analyzing policy 00:12:50.570 --> 00:12:55.009 documents, analyzing damage photographs, analyzing 00:12:55.009 --> 00:12:57.730 correspondence regarding the claim. And so keep 00:12:57.730 --> 00:13:00.889 in mind that our main customers over at Whammy 00:13:00.889 --> 00:13:05.769 are property attorneys. I'm sorry. Personal injury 00:13:05.769 --> 00:13:09.230 attorneys. These are defense firms that are representing. 00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:12.789 insurance, whenever they have a claim against 00:13:12.789 --> 00:13:15.169 their insurance company. And sometimes they have 00:13:15.169 --> 00:13:17.809 to, you know, take it to legal. Right. And then 00:13:17.809 --> 00:13:19.370 we also have the other side of the fence on the 00:13:19.370 --> 00:13:22.289 carrier side. There are, you know, defense attorneys 00:13:22.289 --> 00:13:25.090 and also insurance companies that are taking 00:13:25.090 --> 00:13:27.909 a look at the technology. But what whammy does 00:13:27.909 --> 00:13:31.330 is it will analyze all this information. It will 00:13:31.330 --> 00:13:35.100 analyze claim estimates. It'll analyze policy 00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:38.320 documents. It'll analyze photos. It'll analyze 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.740 any correspondence that has been coming back 00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:43.200 and forth regarding the claim. It'll help you 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:45.919 prepare certain documents that are necessary 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:49.419 for the claim and the litigation. And it's really 00:13:49.419 --> 00:13:54.080 to make the legal process of battling that claim 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:57.340 from one side or the other to make that much 00:13:57.340 --> 00:14:00.740 more efficient and much, much faster. Some of 00:14:00.740 --> 00:14:03.820 the work that could take, you know, a person. 00:14:04.100 --> 00:14:07.299 Hours, tens of hours is now taking minutes in 00:14:07.299 --> 00:14:10.080 analyzing, you know, hundreds of documents. So 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:12.919 our system can do it in a very short period of 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:16.759 time. So it's a huge time save and it's much 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:19.500 more accurate, obviously, because it's completely 00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:22.820 AI forward and making a lot less mistakes than 00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:26.500 what a human would

whenever it's. Okay, and what 00:14:26.500 --> 00:14:29.519 brought you to AI? Like, I can assume that you 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:33.019 work with ink, you are tech savvy, you like working 00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:36.120 with tech products and introducing solutions 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:39.899 to the industry and working on upcoming technologies, 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.139 but do you really believe that, okay, I get this, 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:48.879 that this will help, like, we can process documents 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:51.139 way faster and it's going to help defense attorneys 00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:54.700 and everything. So, do you really believe that 00:14:54.700 --> 00:14:59.960 if we just put this up against a real human being 00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:04.820 or how the work is handled in real world, a software 00:15:04.820 --> 00:15:09.379 can still be competitive against real humans 00:15:09.379 --> 00:15:14.700 when we talk about real problems and the challenges 00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:21.019 that require physical presence? Yeah, so I've 00:15:21.019 --> 00:15:23.799 thought quite a bit about this from the perspective 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:26.700 of several industries because AI is going to 00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:29.220 change the way the world works. It's not going 00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:34.480 to entirely replace humans, but it is going to 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:36.940 enable them to achieve a lot more than what they 00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:39.600 could have without it. And so let's say you have 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.120 a, in the case of Whammy, let's say you have 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:45.960 a policy document that you need to read for an 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:48.279 insured. And let's say that policy document is 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:51.769 a hundred pages. Now, you would have to go through 00:15:51.769 --> 00:15:54.470 and read 100 pages of this document in order 00:15:54.470 --> 00:15:57.850 to find certain provisions or certain exclusions 00:15:57.850 --> 00:16:01.730 or certain coverages regarding that policy to 00:16:01.730 --> 00:16:06.970 see how it applies to the particular claim. And 00:16:06.970 --> 00:16:10.370 for a human to read through 100 pages accurately 00:16:10.370 --> 00:16:13.830 of a policy document, you know, I can't imagine 00:16:13.830 --> 00:16:15.210 how long it's going to take, but it's probably 00:16:15.210 --> 00:16:18.240 going to take some time, at least a day. Right? 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.799 The whammy technology can read that policy in 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:24.820 its entirety in a matter of minutes, maybe less, 00:16:24.820 --> 00:16:27.360 it could be seconds. And the information that 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.519 it gathers and the way that it gathers that data 00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:34.460 indexes it and relays it back to the user. There's 00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:38.080 no way that a human could do that on their own. 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.179 And so to be able to do that and do that at scale 00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:46.679 with hundreds, thousands of claims, you know, 00:16:46.740 --> 00:16:50.259 we're able to save law firms a tremendous amount 00:16:50.259 --> 00:16:52.299 of time. We're able to save forensics companies 00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:54.820 a tremendous amount of time, public adjusters, 00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:59.340 basically anybody who needs to analyze these 00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:03.100 matters and analyze the data, there's no way 00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:05.819 that they can do it better than the AI can. So 00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:08.740 once that AI produces the result, it's always 00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:12.119 there for humans to review it. It's always there 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:16.240 for, you know, confirmation, but to be able to 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.500 extract that information, present it and have 00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:22.000 it checked to make sure it's accurate, which 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.700 in almost every case that it is, there's just 00:17:24.700 --> 00:17:27.140 no way that a human can do what the AI is doing. 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.759 Okay. And when we talk about human versus AI, 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.380 you have been working with Ink and now you are 00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:37.779 working with this platform. This is for defense 00:17:37.779 --> 00:17:40.119 attorneys and now I would say that you have sort 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:42.700 of transitioned. But if we talk about roofing 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:45.519 industry specifically, since our audience is 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:51.220 roofing contractors, you have been there, you 00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:53.900 have done that, like you have been part of this, 00:17:54.019 --> 00:17:57.339 all of these things for like last decade. Where 00:17:57.339 --> 00:18:00.200 do you feel that contractors, specifically if 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.039 we talk about roofing contractors, they go wrong 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.519 with the understanding of data and metrics? But 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:09.099 I feel, I will share my point of view with you 00:18:09.099 --> 00:18:11.980 as well, that I feel that we have become so obsessed 00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:15.720 with the collection of data and noticing different 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:19.140 metrics and mirroring and calculations, doing 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:22.519 calculations on paper that we do not know which 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:25.599 data is actually correct for us. And even if 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.240 you are using something like AI that has massive 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.900 capabilities, how we can actually analyze and 00:18:31.900 --> 00:18:35.420 feed that data and use that for our advantage. 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:39.079 So is there anything that you feel contractors 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:43.059 do wrong and it can be corrected, whether it 00:18:43.059 --> 00:18:46.339 is their perspective or the use of data and the 00:18:46.339 --> 00:18:49.579 metrics overall? Well,

I would say that the first 00:18:49.579 --> 00:18:53.019 thing that they do wrong is they have the mindset 00:18:53.019 --> 00:18:55.559 of this is, this is how we've always done it. 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:57.700 So the first thing is they have to be open to 00:18:57.700 --> 00:19:01.720 change and they have to want to improve the process 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:05.059 if they are. Currently implementing an antiquated 00:19:05.059 --> 00:19:07.859 process or something that can be more effective 00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:10.160 And so I'd say that's the first mistake that 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.039 they make is being set in their ways the second 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:17.680 and this is I would say this is probably an advantage 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.619 for a contractor But there's only so many things 00:19:20.619 --> 00:19:23.519 that you should be tracking when you are a contractor, 00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:25.420 right? There's not too many metrics that you 00:19:25.420 --> 00:19:28.539 need to pay attention to in order to be successful 00:19:28.539 --> 00:19:32.259 but certain things that maybe they're not thinking 00:19:32.259 --> 00:19:36.160 about, like how quickly they answer the phone. 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:39.200 I would say that the number one thing that contractors 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:43.420 are never great at is simply communicating and 00:19:43.420 --> 00:19:46.759 answering the phone. I can't tell you how many 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.400 times I've heard stories of contractors losing 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.500 customers and it's just because they were non 00:19:53.500 --> 00:19:56.079 -responsive. Right. You even see people posting 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:58.680 about it online where they're getting calls and 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:00.720 they're trying to catch up with 12 calls that 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:02.940 they got in that day because of, you know, a 00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:05.279 storm that came through. And it's like, you know, 00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:08.200 12 phone calls. It should be entirely manageable 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:10.519 by a company who is coming out to build your 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:14.220 roof in my opinion. So there's, there's certain 00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:17.460 things that they may not be thinking about that 00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:19.819 are important that are going to make a world 00:20:19.819 --> 00:20:23.180 of difference. And. A contractor sometimes is 00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:25.240 going to think, well, why is me answering the 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:26.960 phone quickly? You got to make a world of difference. 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.400 They don't realize that that's just how society 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.359 is these days. And they expect a quick turnaround, 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:36.059 right? Everybody's living in an instant gratification 00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:39.099 mindset. And with that mindset comes certain 00:20:39.099 --> 00:20:42.480 expectations of, you know, who you're

dealing 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.079 with and who you're working with. And it's for 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.240 a contractor. I mean, if you call a contractor, 00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:48.240 ask a question or you want to ask them a question 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.410 or have them come out and help you out. If they 00:20:51.410 --> 00:20:54.809 don't call you back for hours, you know, how 00:20:54.809 --> 00:20:58.250 are you going to feel whenever they're doing 00:20:58.250 --> 00:21:00.190 your work? Are you going to feel comfortable 00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:01.789 with them doing your work? Are you going to trust 00:21:01.789 --> 00:21:04.730 them because they can't even call you back in 00:21:04.730 --> 00:21:07.690 a matter of hours? And that's the beginning of 00:21:07.690 --> 00:21:10.789 that interaction. So I would say that there, 00:21:10.990 --> 00:21:14.509 there are certain things that contractors, you 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:17.430 know, look at and they're probably not. all the 00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:19.210 things that they should be looking at, but I 00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:22.250 don't think there are a lot overall. That's the 00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:24.869 good news. The good news is, is that for a contractor, 00:21:24.970 --> 00:21:26.910 you don't have, you know, a hundred different 00:21:26.910 --> 00:21:28.849 metrics you need to follow. You need to follow, 00:21:29.210 --> 00:21:32.089 you know, basically your, your customer service. 00:21:32.369 --> 00:21:36.009 You need to, uh, obviously keep an eye on your, 00:21:36.130 --> 00:21:38.809 your numbers, your net revenue and your, uh, 00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:42.750 your cost of goods. Right. So, so those are the 00:21:42.750 --> 00:21:45.769 primary things. And then, you know, When things 00:21:45.769 --> 00:21:49.190 go wrong, just fix it, right? Don't make excuses, 00:21:49.250 --> 00:21:52.609 just fix it. And that's really what makes a good 00:21:52.609 --> 00:21:55.089 contractor. One that answers their phone, gets 00:21:55.089 --> 00:21:58.289 the job done, makes sure they keep an eye on 00:21:58.289 --> 00:22:02.109 their numbers, and they just fix things when 00:22:02.109 --> 00:22:07.069 it happens, so. Okay. And I remember a book here 00:22:07.069 --> 00:22:10.009 from what you have said that there's a book named, 00:22:10.509 --> 00:22:13.430 Never Sweat the Small... Never sweat the small 00:22:13.430 --> 00:22:15.650 stuff. It's always in the small stuff. It's always 00:22:15.650 --> 00:22:17.809 in the small things that we ignore. There is 00:22:17.809 --> 00:22:19.990 an amazing book. If someone is listening to this, 00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:23.170 it's definitely a book that helps you focus on 00:22:23.170 --> 00:22:26.930 the smaller things. You have been with Ink, Ran, 00:22:27.809 --> 00:22:32.650 and I read your posts and I saw that you guys 00:22:32.650 --> 00:22:34.930 were dealing with loans as well. Like you were 00:22:34.930 --> 00:22:37.569 providing contractors with loans. If I am not 00:22:37.569 --> 00:22:40.450 wrong here, since you were with Ink and you were 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.559 looking over all these payments and how things 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:47.079 are being done. Are there any things that you 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.480 feel a contractors do wrong with their finances? 00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:52.799 And I'm not talking about the contractors who 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:56.980 have been into this industry for decades. I personally 00:22:56.980 --> 00:22:59.599 know three to five business business started 00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:01.940 in like twenty twenty four roofing businesses 00:23:01.940 --> 00:23:04.980 and now they are not in the industry anymore. 00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:08.559 They just collapsed because they couldn't handle 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.240 the cash flow or they didn't have, they didn't 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.660 plan anything. So you have been here, you know 00:23:14.660 --> 00:23:17.579 that how insurance company pays you, how you 00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:20.019 have to plan out the materials and how you have 00:23:20.019 --> 00:23:22.980 to do all these things. Are there anything that 00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:26.599 you can tell these contractors from your experience 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:29.400 that if you are starting out, then these are 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:32.579 the things that you need to be looking for? That's 00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:35.380 a great question. So I would say first and foremost, 00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:40.059 contractors need to have reserves, especially 00:23:40.059 --> 00:23:43.039 if you're working in the insurance space because 00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:44.980 you're going to have to float funds. You're going 00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:47.680 to have to cover expenses while money is coming 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:51.279 in. And it's just the nature of insurance claims. 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.099 So whenever a claim is approved, let's say it's 00:23:55.099 --> 00:23:57.519 a roof claim, the insurance company is always 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:00.279 going to pay out what's called the ACB payment 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.480 related to the policy. And that's the actual 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.950 cash value payment. So it's typically never the 00:24:05.950 --> 00:24:07.569 total amount of what the roof is going to cost 00:24:07.569 --> 00:24:11.269 to replace. And so, you know, as a contractor, 00:24:11.869 --> 00:24:13.950 you're typically getting that job started with 00:24:13.950 --> 00:24:15.509 that check and maybe you're going to collect 00:24:15.509 --> 00:24:18.849 the deductible check from the insurer. But in 00:24:18.849 --> 00:24:20.910 order to receive the rest of the money, you need 00:24:20.910 --> 00:24:23.529 to complete that job. And once that job is complete, 00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:25.470 you've got to pay your crews, you've got to pay 00:24:25.470 --> 00:24:27.910 your materials, you've got to pay expenses to

00:24:27.910 --> 00:24:31.410 keep the lights on. And so all these things need 00:24:31.410 --> 00:24:35.160 to be taken care of in a timely manner, but you 00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:37.380 may not receive that back end money for another 00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:40.400 month or two from the insurance company. So unless 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:44.539 you have a very strict accounts receivable process 00:24:44.539 --> 00:24:49.099 and perhaps a protocol where you are collecting 00:24:49.099 --> 00:24:51.039 payment from the insured, regardless of what 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:54.039 the insurance company is doing, you're going 00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:57.339 to have cashflow issues. And so if you're running 00:24:57.339 --> 00:24:59.279 your business just based on how the insurance 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.130 company is paying, you have to be prepared. For 00:25:02.130 --> 00:25:06.549 I would say at least at least three to six months 00:25:06.549 --> 00:25:09.769 of just runway to make sure that you have enough 00:25:09.769 --> 00:25:12.089 to pay the bills and cover everything and grow 00:25:12.089 --> 00:25:13.990 the business while you're waiting for money to 00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:16.509 come in. So that's one of the biggest challenges. 00:25:16.769 --> 00:25:20.730 I think that a contractor see is that or that 00:25:20.730 --> 00:25:23.349 they encounter is that they, they do not manage 00:25:23.349 --> 00:25:25.930 their money appropriately. And you know, as soon 00:25:25.930 --> 00:25:28.710 as it comes in, it's right out the door. You 00:25:28.710 --> 00:25:30.569 certainly cannot do that in insurance claims. 00:25:30.630 --> 00:25:34.069 He really cannot do that, especially after let's 00:25:34.069 --> 00:25:36.730 say a catastrophic catastrophic event where, 00:25:36.730 --> 00:25:39.490 you know, a hurricane comes in and you're probably 00:25:39.490 --> 00:25:42.690 writing 10 times the number of contracts. So 00:25:42.690 --> 00:25:44.390 you would write in a normal year and you're doing 00:25:44.390 --> 00:25:48.710 that perhaps in a month, you know, you financially 00:25:48.710 --> 00:25:50.049 are probably not going to be able to support 00:25:50.049 --> 00:25:55.930 that venture. So, okay. And so I, no, I was just 00:25:55.930 --> 00:25:58.960 going to say, so managing, Uh, managing your 00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:01.559 finances, I think is the number one thing that 00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:03.500 contractors need to plan for if they're going 00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:05.440 to be serious about growing any sort of business 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:10.019 in the industry. Okay. Do companies file more 00:26:10.019 --> 00:26:13.359 claims that they can handle as well? Sure. It 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.500 happens all the time, especially after a hurricane. 00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:19.220 I've, you know, seen a lot of companies, especially 00:26:19.220 --> 00:26:21.680 here in Florida, they come from out of state 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.000 and they see an opportunity of all this work. 00:26:25.180 --> 00:26:28.460 Right. And what happens is. They write all these 00:26:28.460 --> 00:26:33.299 contracts. They sign people up. And then as those 00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:36.019 claims start becoming approved by the insurance 00:26:36.019 --> 00:26:39.279 companies, you know, they are, they're obviously 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:41.819 not all approved at once. All that money does 00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:45.119 not come at once. And what ends up, what ends 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:49.460 up happening is the contract start the work on 00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:52.920 those initial jobs. And then as more money is 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.619 coming in from. additional jobs, they're trying 00:26:56.619 --> 00:26:59.920 to pay off the first round of jobs with the money 00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:02.880 that's coming in and they very quickly get overwhelmed 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.720 and consumed by their receivables and their payables. 00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:07.900 And what ends up happening is they go under because 00:27:07.900 --> 00:27:10.140 they don't have enough money then to complete 00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:13.680 the work or get any new jobs started. So you 00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:15.880 may think that it's a great idea to go out and 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.480 write all this business, but if you financially 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.440 cannot support it, then you're not going to make 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:25.460 it through. You started Inc in 2017. If we go 00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:29.500 back to when you were co -founding this or when 00:27:29.500 --> 00:27:34.460 you had this idea in your mind, do you believe 00:27:34.460 --> 00:27:37.779 that the industry or the processes have changed 00:27:37.779 --> 00:27:41.319 now with the introduction of tech? And what was 00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:45.319 in your mind when you started Inc and what was 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:49.519 your... condition mentally when you were now 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:52.579 getting separated from it or just taking like 00:27:52.579 --> 00:27:57.440 a different path. So when we first started talking 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.420 about the idea of ink, to me, it was ridiculous 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:03.160 that these property claims were being paid on 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:06.460 a paper check because even back then in 2016, 00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:10.319 we had plenty of payments platforms, you know, 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.960 Venmo is around PayPal. um, plenty of ways to 00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:16.039 send money electronically. And I thought, well, 00:28:16.180 --> 00:28:18.279 this is such an important matter for people. 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.960 Why are we still doing it by check? So those 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:25.160 were the first thoughts in my head. And after 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:28.059 we did some research, we found that there were 00:28:28.059 --> 00:28:32.599 no other solutions out there to manage this process.

00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:35.480 And so it became kind of an obsession of ours. 00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:37.680 Well, if it, if, if there's nothing out there 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.819 that exists, we have to fix this. We have to 00:28:39.819 --> 00:28:43.410 get it done. I can tell you that over the years, 00:28:43.450 --> 00:28:46.410 certainly, you know, this was my first major 00:28:46.410 --> 00:28:49.809 entrepreneurial journey. I've kind of been entrepreneurial 00:28:49.809 --> 00:28:52.309 all my life, but this was my largest venture 00:28:52.309 --> 00:28:57.230 to date. And I've learned quite a bit about technology, 00:28:57.869 --> 00:29:01.250 business in general, raising capital. And I will 00:29:01.250 --> 00:29:07.019 say that my view on, on everything to solve at 00:29:07.019 --> 00:29:09.359 large with ink. We always knew that it was going 00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:11.019 to be challenging. We always knew it was going 00:29:11.019 --> 00:29:13.819 to take some time. But I can tell you that technology 00:29:13.819 --> 00:29:17.380 always takes longer than you think until now. 00:29:17.619 --> 00:29:20.420 I think until AI has been brought into the fold, 00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:23.119 technology prior to that always takes longer 00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:26.480 than you expect. And it's extremely difficult 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:31.920 because we had to prove concept. in many ways, 00:29:32.059 --> 00:29:33.960 you know, first you're proving that there's a 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:35.900 need in the marketplace, right? And then you 00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:39.759 have to prove that there's a larger market than 00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:43.700 just where you are proving the model initially. 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:46.460 And then you have to, as we're doing now, you 00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:49.579 have to have enterprise adoption. And so out 00:29:49.579 --> 00:29:51.960 of these many levels of growth and different 00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:55.250 phases and fundraising and Everything that you 00:29:55.250 --> 00:29:58.230 go through in this journey. It's it's very much 00:29:58.230 --> 00:30:00.470 different even even with how you're operating 00:30:00.470 --> 00:30:02.950 the business based on where you're at in fundraising, 00:30:03.089 --> 00:30:08.869 so It's it's a lot to navigate. It's a it's It's 00:30:08.869 --> 00:30:12.630 certainly not easy. It's Not not for the fate 00:30:12.630 --> 00:30:15.170 of hard to grow business like this. I mean, it's 00:30:15.170 --> 00:30:19.720 a it's quite a roller coaster but I think as 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:23.140 long as you have the right team, as long as you 00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:25.619 just don't give up and as long as you're constantly 00:30:25.619 --> 00:30:28.180 innovating and thinking of ways to make everything 00:30:28.180 --> 00:30:31.299 better, whether it's the platform, the process, 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.440 you know, how you're working with your customers, 00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:36.160 how

you're out there marketing, you know, your 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:39.160 messaging, just everything. There's so much that 00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:43.519 goes into growing a business like this that it's, 00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:47.420 after you go through it, it's almost like, you 00:30:47.420 --> 00:30:49.859 know, wouldn't When I think about would I do 00:30:49.859 --> 00:30:55.119 it again probably not, you know It's you know, 00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.660 that's the only way to describe it, you know, 00:30:57.900 --> 00:31:02.059 I would I would I I Don't know when I give up 00:31:02.059 --> 00:31:04.480 the experience absolutely not it's been one of 00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:07.339 the greatest experiences of my life and And probably 00:31:07.339 --> 00:31:09.960 always will be but would I do it again had I 00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:12.119 known what I know now? Probably not. I probably 00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:15.269 would have done something different And maybe 00:31:15.269 --> 00:31:17.410 not tried to create a payments company that didn't 00:31:17.410 --> 00:31:19.390 exist. And I, you know, I think about that a 00:31:19.390 --> 00:31:22.369 lot. It's like, do you want to, do you want to 00:31:22.369 --> 00:31:26.789 continue in that realm of technology, especially 00:31:26.789 --> 00:31:29.829 with how things are advancing and, you know, 00:31:29.990 --> 00:31:32.730 dealing with the startup trials and tribulations? 00:31:32.950 --> 00:31:35.809 I mean, at any moment, you know, you can be put 00:31:35.809 --> 00:31:38.190 out of business at any moment. You could have 00:31:38.190 --> 00:31:40.210 somebody come along, competition come along and 00:31:40.210 --> 00:31:42.269 just squash you. I mean, there's so many things 00:31:42.269 --> 00:31:45.680 that can happen. that, you know, that are on 00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.859 the back of your mind and it's, it's very, uh, 00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.880 it's very, it's very, uh, testing. We'll say 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:58.339 that, but, uh, knowing what I know now, I can 00:31:58.339 --> 00:32:00.339 tell you that the experience has certainly prepared 00:32:00.339 --> 00:32:03.640 me for nearly anything else that I want to, that 00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:05.960 I want to take on. So, um, I'm very grateful, 00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:09.339 you know, for everything I've learned. I'm very 00:32:09.339 --> 00:32:12.240 grateful for all the people that I've met. Very 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.619 grateful for everyone that believes in the company 00:32:14.619 --> 00:32:17.480 and everybody that supported the growth of the 00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:20.680 company and everybody who is part of the team. 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.240 Now it just, it takes an army, right? It's, it's 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.980 just not easy. And so having done it in the environments 00:32:26.980 --> 00:32:30.799 that we did, I mean, we went through COVID, we 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:33.980 were raising money in the most difficult fundraising 00:32:33.980 --> 00:32:38.539 environment ever. And we still made it through. 00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:41.859 I mean, We overcame some extraordinary challenges 00:32:41.859 --> 00:32:44.960 and we press on and I think it's not just because 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:47.099 of our perseverance, but because the industry 00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:52.119 demands a solution. You know, it's, it's, it's 00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:54.380 a royal pain trying to get these payments taken 00:32:54.380 --> 00:32:58.299 care of. And if we can solve for this massive 00:32:58.299 --> 00:33:01.140 headache that affects so many different stakeholders, 00:33:01.460 --> 00:33:04.279 then the world's going to be a much better place. 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.059 So. We're going to get it there. It's just a 00:33:07.059 --> 00:33:09.039 much longer journey than we had anticipated. 00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:13.500 I'm going to come back to this at the end of 00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:17.059 this interview that this is a kind of a life 00:33:17.059 --> 00:33:20.240 question that rather than you do all the things 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.220 and then you have achieved everything, your perspective 00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:26.740 change, changes about the journey that you had. 00:33:27.099 --> 00:33:29.380 I'm going to discuss that at the end. But for 00:33:29.380 --> 00:33:32.180 now, you just mentioned that it was challenging 00:33:32.180 --> 00:33:35.859 and I know as well that creating demand is something 00:33:35.859 --> 00:33:38.079 you were out there you were creating demand I 00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:40.680 would say for something that was not even in 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.799 the minds of people like they they didn't even 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:45.680 think that this this is something they should 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.420 be having so when you were out there building 00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:54.140 demand for this or just selling your idea what 00:33:54.140 --> 00:33:56.960 are the things that you faced because there were 00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.619 so many things going on with ink like people 00:33:59.619 --> 00:34:02.660 are scanning checks homeowners are signing the 00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.819 checks or doing approving payments or stuff like 00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:07.859 that. Then there are mortgage companies out there. 00:34:07.859 --> 00:34:10.519 You are dealing with insurance. So like you are 00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.000 dealing with a lot of different avenues, I would 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.860 say. How did you manage to build trust with each 00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:20.519 of them? So I would say that a lot of our traction 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:24.280 early on came from people that we knew that Ken 00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:26.960 and I knew. So Ken Lawyers, our other co -founder 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:30.659 at Inc. He was and still is a public adjuster 00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:33.619 in the industry. We used to work together on 00:34:33.619 -->

00:34:36.239 claims here and there and Ken had a lot of great 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.400 relationships in the industry that we were able 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.800 to capitalize on. And so kind of getting, getting 00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:44.579 trust from people that you knew was a good start, 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:48.360 but getting out there, I think it wasn't until 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.820 2018, believe it or not. So the first months 00:34:51.820 --> 00:34:56.199 of January, 2018, we went to our very first industry 00:34:56.199 --> 00:35:00.619 event. And we went to the wind conference in 00:35:00.619 --> 00:35:04.099 Orlando, really looking for just feedback. We 00:35:04.099 --> 00:35:06.500 wanted to find out what the insurance industry 00:35:06.500 --> 00:35:10.099 thought of this potential solution. And I remember 00:35:10.099 --> 00:35:14.320 going to that first event thinking this is exciting 00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.860 because we're going to find out now whether or 00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:20.940 not this is a viable thing to pursue. And we 00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:24.179 came out of that conference with. a bunch of 00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:25.880 companies that were interested in actually using 00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:28.699 the product. So that was exciting. And then the 00:35:28.699 --> 00:35:32.519 very next conference that we went to was the 00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:35.840 International Roofing Expo. And that was way 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:37.639 different than the WINT conference. It was much 00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:41.380 larger, a lot of contractors. And we went there 00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:44.179 expecting to get a whole bunch of customers. 00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:48.219 And we did get quite a few leads. But really 00:35:48.219 --> 00:35:51.300 what we came out of that with was partnership 00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:53.119 interests and a lot of other companies in the 00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.619 space who were excited about what we were solving. 00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.699 They said, you guys are the missing link as to 00:35:58.699 --> 00:36:01.280 what a lot of folks in our industry need right 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:04.079 now. And that kind of gave us additional momentum 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.539 to say, okay, this is, this is the real thing. 00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:08.920 We, we need to make this happen and just getting 00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:11.980 that validation from the industry is what continued 00:36:11.980 --> 00:36:15.840 to propel us. So I think going out there, getting 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:18.739 feedback from your potential customers, your 00:36:18.739 --> 00:36:23.559 potential partners. All that was a catalyst to 00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:25.800 our growth in the beginning, just validation 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:28.559 from others and then showing them, here's, here's 00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:30.679 what we're planning to build. Here's how it's 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.280 going to work. But, you know, it was

amazing. 00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:38.840 I mean, Ken and I raised money nearly, uh, you 00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:42.099 know, almost, almost $900 ,000. Ken says a piece 00:36:42.099 --> 00:36:44.159 of paper. It was a little more than that, but 00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:48.099 it was, uh, not compared to how, how everybody's 00:36:48.099 --> 00:36:50.469 raising money today with. pitch decks and things 00:36:50.469 --> 00:36:52.130 like that. I mean, this was like a traditional 00:36:52.130 --> 00:36:54.670 business plan, an old school business plan. And, 00:36:54.670 --> 00:36:58.170 uh, you know, we, we were still able to get the 00:36:58.170 --> 00:37:00.730 support because people believed in what we were 00:37:00.730 --> 00:37:02.650 solving for. It was that, that big of a problem. 00:37:03.210 --> 00:37:07.349 So we just kept at it. Okay. And Inc was your 00:37:07.349 --> 00:37:11.369 first major entrepreneurial achievement, I would 00:37:11.369 --> 00:37:14.349 say. So what are the things that you feel if 00:37:14.349 --> 00:37:16.869 you look back now that, or the mistakes that 00:37:16.869 --> 00:37:20.809 you learned from Inc? that you don't want to 00:37:20.809 --> 00:37:24.170 apply in this journey that you are just beginning 00:37:24.170 --> 00:37:30.250 right now. A mistake? Well, it's, you know, it's, 00:37:30.250 --> 00:37:34.670 it's hard to say what mistakes we made at Ink 00:37:34.670 --> 00:37:38.550 because it was a learning journey and you can't 00:37:38.550 --> 00:37:41.610 learn without making mistakes. So Ken has another 00:37:41.610 --> 00:37:43.610 saying, you know, you don't know what you don't 00:37:43.610 --> 00:37:48.940 know. We, we only were able to progress with 00:37:48.940 --> 00:37:53.300 what we knew about the solution, what we knew 00:37:53.300 --> 00:37:57.760 about business, what we knew about just the industry 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.679 in general. And we learned basically along the 00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.719 way. So do we make mistakes? Sure. Could I have 00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:06.420 done things differently? Could we have done things 00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:09.380 differently as an organization? Absolutely. But 00:38:09.380 --> 00:38:12.300 were they mistakes? I wouldn't say there were 00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:15.019 mistakes. I think they were just. You know things 00:38:15.019 --> 00:38:17.420 that we learned from and that's that's the way 00:38:17.420 --> 00:38:21.179 every successful person grows and and actually 00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:23.679 become successful is they learn to deal with 00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:27.739 The mistakes they learn to fail and just get 00:38:27.739 --> 00:38:29.519 back on the horse and that's what we did. So 00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:33.340 we we certainly Had challenges over the years. 00:38:33.340 --> 00:38:35.440 We certainly could have done things better. We 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:39.179 certainly Probably could have gotten you know 00:38:39.179 --> 00:38:42.059 places faster,

but it's just how the business 00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:45.530 group, you know grew It grew because of what 00:38:45.530 --> 00:38:48.210 we knew, how we knew to do it. And of course 00:38:48.210 --> 00:38:50.969 we've gotten much better over the years, you 00:38:50.969 --> 00:38:54.869 know, to have gone from not knowing anything, 00:38:54.909 --> 00:38:58.809 just an idea on literally a napkin about, you 00:38:58.809 --> 00:39:02.510 know, how do we solve this problem? And the, 00:39:02.510 --> 00:39:04.670 the goal was, let's just get rid of the check. 00:39:05.269 --> 00:39:07.309 We had no idea how we were going to do it, you 00:39:07.309 --> 00:39:09.349 know, but that was, that was the goal. Let's 00:39:09.349 --> 00:39:11.789 just get rid of the check. That's what we decided 00:39:11.789 --> 00:39:15.099 that. that day that Ken and I first discussed 00:39:15.099 --> 00:39:17.539 the concept of eight. It was Sunday, September 00:39:17.539 --> 00:39:20.500 11th, 2016. And I could tell you where we were. 00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:23.340 We were at Miller's Ale House in South side of 00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:25.800 Jacksonville, Florida. And we were watching a 00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:28.940 football game during a beer. And it was the first 00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:31.519 time we discussed it. And that's all we knew 00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:34.500 was this is a problem. And we think the ultimate 00:39:34.500 --> 00:39:36.539 goal is to just eliminate the check. We didn't 00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:38.760 know how we were going to get there. We didn't 00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.599 know what we were going to build. That's all 00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:45.699 we knew and we were able to, you know, utilize 00:39:45.699 --> 00:39:48.980 our contacts. We were able to do to utilize our 00:39:48.980 --> 00:39:51.599 prior experience. Ken's obviously in the insurance 00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.659 space. You know, I started learning. Contracting 00:39:55.659 --> 00:39:57.679 and the roofing industry and property claims. 00:39:57.699 --> 00:40:00.820 And I had a background in the mortgage industry 00:40:00.820 --> 00:40:03.880 as well. So it kind of all came together with 00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:06.559 that. We went out and, you know, reached out 00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:09.719 to some of my Some of my friends and very good 00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:11.699 friend of mine, Brian Watson, who I've known 00:40:11.699 --> 00:40:15.619 since I was 15 and he was a lot more familiar 00:40:15.619 --> 00:40:18.059 with tech than I was. And he was able to come 00:40:18.059 --> 00:40:21.219 on and help us, you know, build out the website 00:40:21.219 --> 00:40:24.420 and start building the first iterations of our 00:40:24.420 --> 00:40:28.539 platform. So that's, that's just kind of how 00:40:28.539 --> 00:40:31.559 we started and we've all grown since then. I 00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:35.340 mean, we're able to come from that to. You know, 00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.039 as I've moved on to this new venture with way, 00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:41.239 I mean, you know, in, in a month was able to 00:40:41.239 --> 00:40:44.380 kind of come up with new processes and things 00:40:44.380 --> 00:40:47.920 that we can execute on from a customer success 00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.000 perspective. And, you know, how we can scale 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:52.800 up, you know, the experience for everybody. I 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:54.539 mean, everything that I'm implementing at way, 00:40:54.539 --> 00:40:57.739 I had no idea about, I didn't know any of this 00:40:57.739 --> 00:41:01.239 when we started Nick. So. You know, it's been 00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:03.480 quite a learning experience and I'm very grateful 00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:06.010 for it. regardless of anything that happened, 00:41:06.329 --> 00:41:08.369 you know, how, how we grew it, you know, any 00:41:08.369 --> 00:41:10.630 mistakes, anything like that. I don't consider 00:41:10.630 --> 00:41:13.269 it mistakes. I consider it a learning experience 00:41:13.269 --> 00:41:16.869 for sure. I just have two or three more questions 00:41:16.869 --> 00:41:19.070 for you. And the first one is that you have been 00:41:19.070 --> 00:41:24.090 a speaker at WTS in the storm conference in 2024. 00:41:24.130 --> 00:41:28.349 And if I'm not wrong in 2025 as well, if you 00:41:28.349 --> 00:41:31.349 can correct me here, if I'm wrong, I meet contractors 00:41:31.349 --> 00:41:35.369 that There is a group of contractors that say 00:41:35.369 --> 00:41:39.909 that these conferences are beneficial to the 00:41:39.909 --> 00:41:42.630 industry. And then there are also some group 00:41:42.630 --> 00:41:46.090 of contractors. They say that these are just 00:41:46.090 --> 00:41:50.989 a way to promote products or talk about or brag 00:41:50.989 --> 00:41:54.750 about achievements of people and nothing much 00:41:54.750 --> 00:41:58.559 beneficial for the contractors or for the roofers 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.260 who are in there to learn something. The question 00:42:01.260 --> 00:42:04.039 I have for you here is that you have been a speaker 00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:08.139 at WTS and I have had Chelsea Fover on my podcast 00:42:08.139 --> 00:42:11.760 as well. She had been on WTS. I had Lisa Simaroli. 00:42:12.019 --> 00:42:15.699 All of you guys have been speaking at these conferences, 00:42:15.699 --> 00:42:19.019 but I never had a chance to ask someone. So now 00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:22.139 I am asking you, what do you feel are the good 00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:27.360 side? So first of all, say that Anyone's opinion 00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:32.539 on a conference or any other educational or just 00:42:32.539 --> 00:42:35.079 anything, right? Anybody's opinion on anything 00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:39.119 is a reflection of how it's received by them. 00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:42.159 You're going to get out of it what you want. 00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:45.539 And if somebody goes to an event and they don't 00:42:45.539

--> 00:42:48.980 get anything out of it, I mean, what were they 00:42:48.980 --> 00:42:52.360 doing at the event in the first place? Or, you 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:57.809 know, what was, what was their game plan? I think 00:42:57.809 --> 00:43:01.809 some of the frustration that people have with 00:43:01.809 --> 00:43:05.349 events sometimes comes from the vendor side because 00:43:05.349 --> 00:43:08.110 it doesn't have the attendance that they expected. 00:43:08.610 --> 00:43:11.090 So everybody puts money up as a vendor, they 00:43:11.090 --> 00:43:13.690 go to these events and then if they don't get 00:43:13.690 --> 00:43:16.510 the ROI out of the event, they obviously hear 00:43:16.510 --> 00:43:19.809 their frustrations and those mumblings happen. 00:43:20.269 --> 00:43:26.550 But in any event, It was a slow event. We would 00:43:26.550 --> 00:43:29.570 find ways to get value out of that event, whether 00:43:29.570 --> 00:43:32.889 it was shooting content or talking to partners, 00:43:33.150 --> 00:43:35.210 talking to customers, doing anything that you 00:43:35.210 --> 00:43:37.829 can to make the experience the best. That's what 00:43:37.829 --> 00:43:39.449 you're going to get out of it, right? You're 00:43:39.449 --> 00:43:42.670 going to get out what you take out of it. And 00:43:42.670 --> 00:43:44.369 if you don't take anything out of it, then of 00:43:44.369 --> 00:43:46.010 course you're just going to say it wasn't worth 00:43:46.010 --> 00:43:48.369 anything, but that doesn't mean. That it's not 00:43:48.369 --> 00:43:50.309 worth something to somebody else. So that that's 00:43:50.309 --> 00:43:52.389 the first thing I'll say. I have no opinion one 00:43:52.389 --> 00:43:54.869 way or another events are they're what you make 00:43:54.869 --> 00:43:59.969 of it. So I would say that if there's anything 00:43:59.969 --> 00:44:02.949 negative about the events, it's, it's just that 00:44:02.949 --> 00:44:05.650 it's the mindset. It's, you know, new showing, 00:44:05.929 --> 00:44:07.550 showing up, you know, thinking you're not going 00:44:07.550 --> 00:44:09.510 to get anything out of it. You're probably not. 00:44:09.610 --> 00:44:11.789 If you have that mindset, you're already, you're 00:44:11.789 --> 00:44:13.449 already setting yourself up for failure. If you 00:44:13.449 --> 00:44:17.210 go in thinking, okay, well, let's make the most 00:44:17.210 --> 00:44:20.050 of this. And even if I only talk to a handful 00:44:20.050 --> 00:44:23.530 of potential customers, I was still able to, 00:44:23.530 --> 00:44:26.210 you know, talk to somebody about a potential 00:44:26.210 --> 00:44:30.489 partnership, or I was still, still able to shoot 00:44:30.489 --> 00:44:33.349 some content. I was able to get some feedback 00:44:33.349 --> 00:44:36.050 from existing customers. You know, there's many 00:44:36.050 --> 00:44:39.489 things that a conference like that can produce, 00:44:39.489 --> 00:44:42.690 but it's, it all comes down to what you're willing 00:44:42.690 --> 00:44:46.369 to attempt to get out of it yourself. And if 00:44:46.369 --> 00:44:49.949 it wasn't the best event for you, then that's 00:44:49.949 --> 00:44:53.190 fine. I mean, everybody has their preferences 00:44:53.190 --> 00:44:57.210 of, of how they like to get knowledge. Everybody, 00:44:57.210 --> 00:45:00.050 you know, has their preferences of how they want 00:45:00.050 --> 00:45:03.210 to go out and get partnerships or potential customers. 00:45:03.829 --> 00:45:07.050 And are there better ways to acquire customers? 00:45:07.389 --> 00:45:09.949 Sure. There could be. And then there's, you know, 00:45:10.050 --> 00:45:12.070 sometimes events are the best way to acquire 00:45:12.070 --> 00:45:14.829 customers just depends on. you know, what it 00:45:14.829 --> 00:45:17.730 is that you are trying to get the word out about 00:45:17.730 --> 00:45:20.090 and what your business does and, you know, how 00:45:20.090 --> 00:45:22.409 you approach it. So again, it all comes down 00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:25.469 to what you are actively trying to get out of 00:45:25.469 --> 00:45:27.969 that event and how you approach that. That makes 00:45:27.969 --> 00:45:31.289 it a success, not the event itself. Okay. Okay. 00:45:31.730 --> 00:45:34.070 So now we are at the end and let's, let's talk 00:45:34.070 --> 00:45:37.050 about life for a moment because you have been 00:45:37.050 --> 00:45:40.150 there. You have done that. You are sort of like, 00:45:40.539 --> 00:45:45.039 You have achieved success and everyone has a 00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:47.260 different definition of success. Earlier in the 00:45:47.260 --> 00:45:50.199 interview, you mentioned that if you had a chance 00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:52.860 to do all of it again, you wouldn't do that. 00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:56.980 And I think so you were being sarcastic there 00:45:56.980 --> 00:46:02.199 or funny. But let me ask you that you have achieved 00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:07.570 a landmark, I would say. You didn't plan it like 00:46:07.570 --> 00:46:11.230 in September 11 when you were sitting down with 00:46:11.230 --> 00:46:14.869 Ken, you had this idea and everything was in 00:46:14.869 --> 00:46:18.250 your mind. But now 10 years or 11 years later, 00:46:18.650 --> 00:46:21.150 you are sitting down. Everything has been achieved. 00:46:21.829 --> 00:46:27.090 Everything is done now. Have you changed the 00:46:27.090 --> 00:46:31.329 view or has this journey changed your view of 00:46:31.329 --> 00:46:34.980 life and success? And is there any part of you 00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:39.780 that you feel has something that still needs 00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:42.619 to be accomplished, but these things can't do 00:46:42.619 --> 00:46:46.480 that? So first I'll say, I don't, I don't consider 00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.340 myself done. I think there's no such thing as 00:46:49.340 --> 00:46:52.079 done. I think it's life is constant growth. People 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:53.539 have

asked me before, you know, what are you 00:46:53.539 --> 00:46:55.960 going to do when you retire? I'll never retire. 00:46:56.059 --> 00:46:58.400 I don't think I, you know, I'm always going to 00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:02.210 be involved in something. trying to make an impact. 00:47:02.489 --> 00:47:05.849 I think that, you know, one thing that everybody 00:47:05.849 --> 00:47:11.730 learns in life is that success is certainly subjective. 00:47:11.730 --> 00:47:14.730 And I think a lot of people's definitions of 00:47:14.730 --> 00:47:17.949 success early on in life are much different than 00:47:17.949 --> 00:47:22.130 what they realize true success is. You know, 00:47:22.130 --> 00:47:25.429 I think my definition of success 10 years ago 00:47:25.429 --> 00:47:28.489 is different than my definition of success now. 00:47:29.010 --> 00:47:32.269 And ironically, I think the perception of, you 00:47:32.269 --> 00:47:35.269 know, what people have of me or what we've accomplished 00:47:35.269 --> 00:47:38.150 at Inc. You know, of being successful is different 00:47:38.150 --> 00:47:41.010 than what I think even. But I just, you know, 00:47:41.150 --> 00:47:43.090 I'm going to keep going no matter what. I'm going 00:47:43.090 --> 00:47:46.349 to continue innovating. I think if you're an 00:47:46.349 --> 00:47:48.630 entrepreneur at heart and you have that mindset, 00:47:49.010 --> 00:47:52.889 you can't. shut it off and you can't stop thinking 00:47:52.889 --> 00:47:55.210 and seeking opportunity, thinking about opportunity 00:47:55.210 --> 00:47:57.829 or seeking opportunity. And for me, I'm always 00:47:57.829 --> 00:48:00.190 trying to, you know, solve problems. I'm always 00:48:00.190 --> 00:48:02.829 trying to think of better ways of doing things. 00:48:02.849 --> 00:48:05.329 I'm always trying to improve certain things. 00:48:05.349 --> 00:48:09.329 And so I'll never stop doing that. So for me, 00:48:09.369 --> 00:48:13.469 you know, success is, is, is the journey it's 00:48:13.469 --> 00:48:17.789 being, it's being on that constant path of growth 00:48:17.789 --> 00:48:21.539 and There is no done. There's no end. There's 00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:25.019 no finish line. And regardless of anything that 00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:29.719 I'm doing in life, whether it's working at a 00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:35.619 startup or advising companies on how to grow 00:48:35.619 --> 00:48:40.039 or anything like that, there's always going to 00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:42.760 be an opportunity. There's always going to be 00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:44.880 room for growth. There's always going to be a 00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:49.179 situation where I can improve and That's just 00:48:49.179 --> 00:48:51.780 how I'm always going to live my life. I'm never 00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:55.679 going to think of it as I'm done. I finished. 00:48:56.539 --> 00:49:01.559 But that's what I've learned is your internal 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:04.820 definition of success is going to change as you're 00:49:04.820 --> 00:49:09.500 achieving it. And even when other people are 00:49:09.500 --> 00:49:11.780 telling you that you've achieved that success, 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:15.500 for me personally, I don't feel that I have. 00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:20.170 I don't feel like it's a It's an end goal. I 00:49:20.170 --> 00:49:22.469 feel like it's just a journey at this point. 00:49:22.989 --> 00:49:26.409 You're right. And here is an analogy that I use 00:49:26.409 --> 00:49:29.309 that success is just like climbing a mountain 00:49:29.309 --> 00:49:34.269 that if you and I, if I am like trying to climb 00:49:34.269 --> 00:49:37.889 a mountain, but you are already at its peak and 00:49:37.889 --> 00:49:40.730 you have achieved that feeling. Now you are telling 00:49:40.730 --> 00:49:43.889 me that Muhammad don't come here. Like if you 00:49:43.929 --> 00:49:47.329 You want to, you can, but don't spend your entire 00:49:47.329 --> 00:49:50.789 life chasing this dream. It's not that much worth 00:49:50.789 --> 00:49:53.969 it than having a family or doing stuff like that. 00:49:54.050 --> 00:49:56.429 But I won't believe you because I am thinking 00:49:56.429 --> 00:50:00.530 that Ryan is just trying to be the solo guy who 00:50:00.530 --> 00:50:03.230 is at the peak and he doesn't want to see me 00:50:03.230 --> 00:50:05.630 succeeding. And the reason I'm bringing this 00:50:05.630 --> 00:50:08.170 up is because you have so many guys coming to 00:50:08.170 --> 00:50:10.909 you. because now you are at a position like this, 00:50:11.130 --> 00:50:13.829 they come to you for advice, I am assuming, and 00:50:13.829 --> 00:50:16.730 they ask you about growth, they ask you about 00:50:16.730 --> 00:50:19.010 operating the company and stuff like that. But 00:50:19.010 --> 00:50:22.989 I see, and of course you see this as people achieve 00:50:22.989 --> 00:50:26.010 so many things in their life, yet they are lonely, 00:50:26.329 --> 00:50:29.469 yet... They don't live a life that they assumed 00:50:29.469 --> 00:50:33.150 they would be living once this XYZ goal has been 00:50:33.150 --> 00:50:36.530 achieved. So if someone asks you today, not about 00:50:36.530 --> 00:50:38.829 growing a business, but about living a life, 00:50:39.190 --> 00:50:42.829 what would be the experience or the advice you 00:50:42.829 --> 00:50:45.510 would share with them? I know it's cliche to 00:50:45.510 --> 00:50:48.369 say it, but it's the little things in life that, 00:50:48.869 --> 00:50:51.130 that bring the happiness. You know, if you want 00:50:51.130 --> 00:50:54.510 to achieve success financially in life, certainly, 00:50:54.630 --> 00:50:58.349 you know, Money helps makes things easier. But 00:50:58.349 --> 00:51:00.389 at the end of the day, it really comes down to 00:51:00.389 --> 00:51:04.210 friends, family, and ensuring that time together 00:51:04.210 --> 00:51:06.989 and experiences. And I can tell you because, 00:51:06.989 --> 00:51:09.989 you know, I

mean, I've, I've gone through a lot 00:51:09.989 --> 00:51:13.610 of challenges in, in life and in business and 00:51:13.610 --> 00:51:16.849 certainly with my health, you know, I'm, I, I've 00:51:16.849 --> 00:51:19.730 stage five kidney disease. So, you know, I'm 00:51:19.730 --> 00:51:23.719 on dialysis and, you know, when you are facing 00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:27.260 a life -threatening health issue. I think that's 00:51:27.260 --> 00:51:29.800 also something that helps your, or not help, 00:51:30.340 --> 00:51:32.019 but something that changes your perspective as 00:51:32.019 --> 00:51:35.159 to what's really important in life. So I think 00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:39.260 having gone through the culmination of building 00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:43.460 and having that success and just growing in business 00:51:43.460 --> 00:51:47.000 and having all the trials and tribulations, the 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:50.159 ups and downs, and then also throwing on top 00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:53.519 everything else in life that can occur. you know, 00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:58.780 world events and, you know, health issues. I 00:51:58.780 --> 00:52:01.059 mean, after all these things start occurring 00:52:01.059 --> 00:52:04.260 to you or happening to you, you realize that 00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:06.659 it truly is the simple things, the little things 00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:10.239 in life that bring joy and happiness. And so, 00:52:10.500 --> 00:52:14.840 you know, everything that I'm doing, it's really 00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:16.900 a learning experience that I'm going to be able 00:52:16.900 --> 00:52:20.539 to pass along and share with others. And at the 00:52:20.539 --> 00:52:22.059 end of the day, you can't take anything with 00:52:22.059 --> 00:52:25.300 you. So hopefully I'm able to make an impact 00:52:25.300 --> 00:52:27.559 while I'm here and I can, you know, help others 00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:29.659 to do the same. And that's, that's what life 00:52:29.659 --> 00:52:31.880 is all about. You know, I, I've always wanted 00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:34.599 to live a life where I can be impactful and I 00:52:34.599 --> 00:52:38.119 can help others. And ink is it, and if whammy 00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:40.960 is it, and anything else that I'm doing is, is 00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:43.420 able to accomplish that where people can live 00:52:43.420 --> 00:52:46.159 an easier life or people can grow. And, uh, I 00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:48.960 can help people understand that this is where 00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:51.320 you're going to find your internal success. Then 00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:55.570 to me that. That's the success. That's the journey. 00:52:55.789 --> 00:52:58.789 That's the accomplishment for me in life. Okay. 00:52:58.789 --> 00:53:01.110 Thank you for sharing that. My last question 00:53:01.110 --> 00:53:04.909 to you, Rayan, is that so many young dudes nowadays, 00:53:05.210 --> 00:53:07.869 they follow influencers on the internet. And 00:53:07.869 --> 00:53:10.130 this is a life question, not a roofing question, 00:53:10.130 --> 00:53:14.070 I would say. And everyone tells you to get obsessed 00:53:14.070 --> 00:53:18.530 with work. I highly appreciate those guys. You 00:53:18.530 --> 00:53:21.550 and I, we do work as well. But what I believe 00:53:21.550 --> 00:53:24.889 is that you shouldn't tie your identity solely 00:53:24.889 --> 00:53:28.010 to the work that you do in your life. It should 00:53:28.010 --> 00:53:32.869 have other small things that you can just enjoy 00:53:32.869 --> 00:53:36.349 as well. But there are two groups of people that 00:53:36.349 --> 00:53:40.590 in my experience I see in the world. One are 00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:43.980 the people who have this thing engraved in their 00:53:43.980 --> 00:53:46.800 souls like they can't live without work or they 00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.840 are just made for work that's fine with them. 00:53:50.219 --> 00:53:52.460 The other group they are the people who want 00:53:52.460 --> 00:53:55.099 to achieve something and I think so these are 00:53:55.099 --> 00:53:58.159 in majority but when they see that there is no 00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:01.500 other way that you have to work so hard that 00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:04.739 you even have to forget your health, your identity, 00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:07.840 your family, your friends and your relationships. 00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:10.940 They think that this is the only way to achieve 00:54:10.940 --> 00:54:14.380 success. But when they do so, they realize that 00:54:14.380 --> 00:54:17.659 what they left in this entire journey of chasing 00:54:17.659 --> 00:54:22.000 success was way worth, was way worthy than the 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.960 success itself. So if Rayan Holi day is sitting 00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:28.099 down today with let's just say a teenager or 00:54:28.099 --> 00:54:32.159 someone in their 20s, how would you suggest them 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:36.559 to create core values of their lives so that 00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:40.579 they can end up having a life that is full of 00:54:40.579 --> 00:54:43.739 meaning instead of just having success that is 00:54:43.739 --> 00:54:46.579 meaningless. Number one, you have to believe 00:54:46.579 --> 00:54:50.179 in yourself in order to achieve what you want 00:54:50.179 --> 00:54:54.619 to achieve. And if you can do that, I think anything 00:54:54.619 --> 00:54:57.739 is possible. A lot of people just, they don't 00:54:57.739 --> 00:55:00.440 believe in themselves. They don't believe in 00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:03.739 their abilities. to go out and accomplish things 00:55:03.739 --> 00:55:06.619 that other people have. And I think it, it holds 00:55:06.619 --> 00:55:09.099 them, holds them back from that. So I think the 00:55:09.099 --> 00:55:11.119 first thing is you have to believe in yourself. 00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:13.500 The second is you have to be willing to learn. 00:55:13.739 --> 00:55:16.099 And the third is, you know, along the way, you're 00:55:16.099 --> 00:55:19.179 going to find out what it is that you're passionate 00:55:19.179 --> 00:55:21.059 about. And no matter what, I think you should 00:55:21.059 --> 00:55:23.380 always, you know, do what you're passionate about, 00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:26.199 regardless of what it, you know, what it is, 00:55:26.199 --> 00:55:29.579 regardless of anything that. Anybody else says 00:55:29.579 --> 00:55:31.260 if you're passionate about something, that's 00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:33.280 what you need to be doing You should always be 00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:36.119 chasing after what you love to do because then 00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:39.480 it's not work. It's it's it's your passion and 00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:42.139 That's how that's how you're gonna lead the most 00:55:42.139 --> 00:55:45.699 rewarding life is doing what you love and it 00:55:45.699 --> 00:55:48.920 doesn't matter what Anybody else thinks or anybody 00:55:48.920 --> 00:55:50.960 else says or what their opinion is. It's your 00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:55.139 life so however that comes together with family 00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:58.380 with friends with You know, your career, you 00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:00.539 know, it'll, it'll all work out, but at the end 00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:03.840 of the day, doing what makes you happy is, is 00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:05.500 what's going to be the most rewarding. It's not 00:56:05.500 --> 00:56:08.800 money. It's not, you know, trying to, trying 00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:12.320 to keep up with society or following trends or 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:14.559 anything like that. All that's great, you know, 00:56:14.599 --> 00:56:18.599 for the time being, it might be fun, but the 00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:20.340 things that really drive you and the things that 00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:23.320 you're passionate about and the things that get 00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:25.739 you out of bed every day. Those are the things 00:56:25.739 --> 00:56:28.219 that you need to pursue. And those are the things 00:56:28.219 --> 00:56:31.000 in life that are going to make you happy. I do 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:33.480 appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast 00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:36.460 today. And if there's an opportunity in the future 00:56:36.460 --> 00:56:38.900 to have a chat again, please let me know. But 00:56:38.900 --> 00:56:41.900 thank you again for having me. And I certainly 00:56:41.900 --> 00:56:44.679 enjoyed the conversation as well. Thank you for 00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:46.739 your time. Once again, have a great day. Take 00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:50.280 care. Thank you. You too. Thanks. Bye bye.