บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Roofing Companies Became Marketing Companies! | w/Chris Zimmerman

companies which serve the 00:03:28.979 --> 00:03:31.580 roofing industry as well, as well as a supplement 00:03:31.580 --> 00:03:34.879 company and a few other companies there as well. 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:36.939 And so, and a big part of what I'm doing now 00:03:36.939 --> 00:03:39.780 is working with Owens Corning as their Owens 00:03:39.780 --> 00:03:42.819 Corning university. I'm part of their speaker 00:03:42.819 --> 00:03:46.580 tour. And so I, I just. About wrapped up my first 00:03:46.580 --> 00:03:48.939 year with them and did about 40 events nationwide. 00:03:49.259 --> 00:03:51.500 So that's kept me pretty busy as well. Okay. 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:55.139 That's interesting. How does it feel like being 00:03:55.139 --> 00:03:59.400 in an industry or in a company for 15 years? 00:03:59.659 --> 00:04:01.439 Because I know that you have been part of this 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:04.539 like since 2005, if I'm not wrong. How does it 00:04:04.539 --> 00:04:07.919 feel like being a part of an industry that you 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:10.979 did not want to be a part of? for 15 years. Yeah. 00:04:11.020 --> 00:04:12.860 Well, I mean, I've been asked this question a 00:04:12.860 --> 00:04:14.219 few times and, you know, I don't think there's 00:04:14.219 --> 00:04:16.220 many people in the roofing industry that when 00:04:16.220 --> 00:04:18.000 we were little boys or little girls thought, 00:04:18.060 --> 00:04:19.800 you know, when I grew up, I want to be a roofer. 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:23.540 And so we all kind of find our way here on one 00:04:23.540 --> 00:04:27.180 kind of weird path or another. But once I was 00:04:27.180 --> 00:04:29.300 in it, to be quite honest, I mean, the money 00:04:29.300 --> 00:04:32.879 was too good to go anywhere else. And I ended 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:35.540 up falling in love with it, so to speak, because, 00:04:35.540 --> 00:04:37.720 you know, one, I was good at it. You know, everybody 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:40.360 enjoys things that they're good at. And so I 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:42.819 did very well in sales. And when I started the 00:04:42.819 --> 00:04:45.079 company and was building the company, like we 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:47.740 had a lot of success, not like monumental success 00:04:47.740 --> 00:04:49.959 or anything crazy, but it was, it was good. And 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:52.620 so that was good. You know, that kept me feeling 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:55.139 rewarded and happy. But what I love about the 00:04:55.139 --> 00:04:58.500 industry is the opportunity it affords people. 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:00.620 It's an industry for second chances. There's 00:05:00.620 --> 00:05:02.660 a lot of people that have criminal histories, 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:05.279 drug addictions that they're fighting and going 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.540 through recovery. And it's an industry where 00:05:07.540 --> 00:05:10.980 someone who has had some bad decisions, has had 00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:15.470 some failures can kind of... reinvigorate themselves 00:05:15.470 --> 00:05:18.009 and find success. There's a lot about the industry 00:05:18.009 --> 00:05:19.810 that I'm not really happy with and I'm doing 00:05:19.810 --> 00:05:22.129 my best to change those things. But there's just, 00:05:22.149 --> 00:05:24.810 there's a lot of rewarding things in this industry. 00:05:24.850 --> 00:05:27.050 And it's just kind of where I found myself and 00:05:27.050 --> 00:05:29.350 you might as well enjoy the ride. This is such 00:05:29.350 --> 00:05:31.290 a nice thing that you just said that this is 00:05:31.290 --> 00:05:33.509 an industry that gives you second chances. But 00:05:33.509 --> 00:05:36.329 I have been hearing a lot lately, Chris, is that 00:05:36.329 --> 00:05:38.990 after COVID, like there was a boom in the industry. 00:05:39.050 --> 00:05:41.449 Everyone was selling retail jobs, insurance jobs, 00:05:41.449 --> 00:05:44.769 and everything was happening. But now, since 00:05:44.769 --> 00:05:48.310 a year or six months back, everything has been 00:05:48.310 --> 00:05:51.949 changing. There is so much depression out there. 00:05:52.110 --> 00:05:55.209 I don't know whether it is related to the circumstances 00:05:55.209 --> 00:05:58.029 or the situations we are having in the world. 00:05:58.269 --> 00:06:00.910 in terms of wars and everything going on. Or 00:06:00.910 --> 00:06:03.850 people are saying that this is not an industry 00:06:03.850 --> 00:06:07.209 that it used to be a few decades back. What are 00:06:07.209 --> 00:06:09.910 your thoughts on that? And do you think that 00:06:09.910 --> 00:06:13.189 we are declining or heading towards a recession? 00:06:13.850 --> 00:06:16.610 roofing industry particularly. Yeah. Well, I 00:06:16.610 --> 00:06:20.269 mean, COVID changed everything. And my take on 00:06:20.269 --> 00:06:23.230 that is that the people who are dissatisfied 00:06:23.230 --> 00:06:25.550 with the roofing industry or some of the things 00:06:25.550 --> 00:06:30.870 that we're seeing are more about, it's less about 00:06:30.870 --> 00:06:33.509 society and more about the industry. It used 00:06:33.509 --> 00:06:37.019 to be easy. And it's just not easy anymore. And 00:06:37.019 --> 00:06:40.180 I say this at a lot of my classes that I'm a 00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:42.519 history guy, like watching history documentaries. 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:45.040 I like reading about history. And in World War 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:47.959 II, in the beginning of World War II, Nazi Germany 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:50.519 was very, very successful. and the U -boats were 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:52.899 out sinking everything and controlled the Atlantic 00:06:52.899 --> 00:06:54.860 and Blitzkrieg and all that kind of stuff and 00:06:54.860 --> 00:06:57.120 they were killing it. And that time in German 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:59.459 history was called the happy times. And I joke 00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:02.300 around that that roofing pre 2020 were

the happy 00:07:02.300 --> 00:07:05.139 times and everything was just going well and 00:07:05.139 --> 00:07:08.360 easy and anyone could do it. And COVID changed 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:10.779 that. And the reason why COVID changed that is 00:07:10.779 --> 00:07:14.259 that it basically doubled prices inside of a 00:07:14.259 --> 00:07:17.029 year. I mean, when I got into the industry, I 00:07:17.029 --> 00:07:20.029 think we were on $2 .60 a square, $1 .60 per 00:07:20.029 --> 00:07:23.290 square. And when COVID hit, we were at $330. 00:07:23.490 --> 00:07:28.050 And that's 10, 12, 15 years. with very little 00:07:28.050 --> 00:07:30.529 increase. And now, you know, at least in my market, 00:07:30.850 --> 00:07:34.810 we went from 330 a square to 500 a square virtually 00:07:34.810 --> 00:07:37.589 overnight. And we're now we're in the, you know, 00:07:37.750 --> 00:07:40.269 600 a square. So in something that only raised 00:07:40.269 --> 00:07:43.470 20 % over 10 years, it then doubled in a couple 00:07:43.470 --> 00:07:45.889 of years. And so that's going to be that's that's 00:07:45.889 --> 00:07:47.930 going to have consequences. Insurance companies 00:07:47.930 --> 00:07:51.259 can't up their rates fast enough to keep up with 00:07:51.259 --> 00:07:54.160 that kind of increase in cost. And I think that's 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:56.800 where we've seen on the restoration side of the 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:59.240 business where claims have gotten so difficult 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.220 is really that's the main driver of that. And 00:08:02.220 --> 00:08:04.339 so again, you've got people that it used to be 00:08:04.339 --> 00:08:06.860 easy and now it's not. Now for me personally, 00:08:07.339 --> 00:08:09.980 I love COVID. I was actually thinking about selling 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:13.899 my business in 2020, 2021 or getting out of the 00:08:13.899 --> 00:08:16.040 industry because I was bored. It was just rinse 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:17.759 and repeat. It was really doing the same things 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:20.319 over and over and I'm a starter. I'm a problem 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.649 solver. And so when things got really, really 00:08:22.649 --> 00:08:24.529 tough, that's for me, that's like, okay, great. 00:08:24.629 --> 00:08:26.529 Now there's challenges, there's problems to solve. 00:08:26.769 --> 00:08:29.009 And, but for most people that wasn't the case. 00:08:29.009 --> 00:08:31.589 And I think that's where most of the kind of 00:08:31.589 --> 00:08:34.049 fear, uncertainty and doubt in the industry is 00:08:34.049 --> 00:08:35.950 kind of coming from now. And there's a lot of 00:08:35.950 --> 00:08:38.009 people out there panicking. The sky is falling, 00:08:38.169 --> 00:08:40.629 you know, claims and restoration that's dead. 00:08:40.789 --> 00:08:43.590 It's got to be retail and private equity is a 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:46.190 real concern for most companies. And so there's 00:08:46.190 --> 00:08:48.850 just, you know, with AI right now and technology 00:08:48.850 --> 00:08:51.320 moving as quickly as it is. And so, yeah, it's 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:53.860 going to create a lot of fear, but whenever there's 00:08:53.860 --> 00:08:56.259 massive changes, there's massive opportunities. 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:58.039 And so I think for the people that are able to 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:00.960 kind of take a deep breath and slow down and 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:02.840 evaluate things and make some good decisions, 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:04.820 there's even more opportunity now than there 00:09:04.820 --> 00:09:07.779 was pre -COVID. Speaking of that, do you believe 00:09:07.779 --> 00:09:11.200 that there are other sides to this? story as 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:14.279 well like I meet people all the time and they 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:16.820 say that people are homeowners are not ready 00:09:16.820 --> 00:09:19.559 to pay they just want the cheapest option like 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:23.379 the market is really bad I can't take jobs because 00:09:23.379 --> 00:09:26.620 the cheapest guy always takes it and now I don't 00:09:26.620 --> 00:09:29.240 want you to get into that sales side of things 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:31.559 like how you can close more deals and stuff like 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:34.000 that but one thing you mentioned in in earlier 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:36.480 part of this interview is that you are going 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:39.960 to launch new locations in the coming time as 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.379 well. So in a market where everyone is saying 00:09:42.379 --> 00:09:45.399 that, okay, I might have to wrap up, how come 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:48.679 you open more locations and have more business 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:51.240 if people are really not willing to pay? Well, 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.279 I mean, maybe I'm crazy and dumb. Like that is 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:56.279 a possibility that I'm just making mistakes. 00:09:56.539 --> 00:09:59.009 But generally speaking, I think that Yes, cost 00:09:59.009 --> 00:10:01.350 of living is very high in it right now, but you 00:10:01.350 --> 00:10:03.789 still need a roof and roofs aren't going to get 00:10:03.789 --> 00:10:06.370 any cheaper. And so you can look at like the 00:10:06.370 --> 00:10:08.669 real estate market. When prices shot up around 00:10:08.669 --> 00:10:11.450 COVID or coming out of COVID, I don't think that 00:10:11.450 --> 00:10:13.529 there's really any markets that have receded. 00:10:13.690 --> 00:10:15.450 Like the prices haven't gone down. They may have 00:10:15.450 --> 00:10:17.909 flatlined and plateaued for a while and allowed 00:10:17.909 --> 00:10:20.299 other things to catch up. But either way, those 00:10:20.299 --> 00:10:22.639 who sit on the sidelines end up getting hurt. 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:25.679 Between financing and the fact that prices are 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:27.559 going to continue going up, people still have 00:10:27.559 --> 00:10:29.700 to

have roofs. And so it's really more about 00:10:29.700 --> 00:10:32.639 how you position yourself. So I just think that, 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:34.559 again, there's people getting out of the industry. 00:10:34.779 --> 00:10:36.500 We've seen that. We've seen a lot of companies 00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:39.200 close. And I've been calling for this for years. 00:10:39.460 --> 00:10:41.539 We're actually about two years behind where I 00:10:41.539 --> 00:10:43.940 thought we would be. I call it the thinning of 00:10:43.940 --> 00:10:46.830 the herd. Again, when it was so easy before COVID, 00:10:47.230 --> 00:10:49.190 you have something that's very, very easy and 00:10:49.190 --> 00:10:51.379 something that has no barrier to entry. right? 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:54.200 And if your state, like in Ohio, there's no licensing 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:56.779 for roofers. And so if you got a pickup truck 00:10:56.779 --> 00:10:58.500 and you throw a ladder in the back, you're a 00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:01.039 roofer. And so the industry as a whole, regardless 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:03.019 of what state is, is a pretty low barrier to 00:11:03.019 --> 00:11:05.480 entry. And so it got a little out of control. 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:08.200 There just got flooded too many. And so their 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:10.419 market needs to correct itself. There needs to 00:11:10.419 --> 00:11:12.200 find balance. And I thought that was going to 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:13.700 happen a couple of years ago. It's taken longer 00:11:13.700 --> 00:11:15.340 than I expected, but I think we're seeing it 00:11:15.340 --> 00:11:17.519 now where there's a lot of companies that are 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:19.700 going out of business. And so again, that's just 00:11:19.700 --> 00:11:21.740 more opp... Opportunity, I think for those that 00:11:21.740 --> 00:11:23.480 are that are staying in the business There's 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.220 more people out there that are as far as like 00:11:26.220 --> 00:11:28.620 your sales team or production teams, you know 00:11:28.620 --> 00:11:30.940 The employees are more readily available. There's 00:11:30.940 --> 00:11:33.440 less options for homeowners and there's still 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:38.080 a a void in the market, I think, of people that 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:40.919 want to do it on a more local level that are 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:43.799 quality of work driven, that are relational. 00:11:44.100 --> 00:11:46.600 And so what you're starting to see, I think, 00:11:46.659 --> 00:11:50.080 is the industry is heading in one of two directions, 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:53.440 either the private equity direction or in the 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:57.600 really small hyper local and small direction 00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.639 owner operators. And there's still a kind of 00:11:59.639 --> 00:12:01.820 a sweet spot in the middle that I think fits 00:12:01.820 --> 00:12:04.000 my vision and values and what my company is all 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.100 about. And so I see a lot of opportunity. You 00:12:07.100 --> 00:12:09.580 are right about it. And it's always about demand 00:12:09.580 --> 00:12:11.720 and supply. And one thing that you just mentioned 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:14.740 that it can go in the private equity direction 00:12:14.740 --> 00:12:17.600 or it can go towards the solo operator. And one 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:20.639 thing that I used to say is that roofing is like 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:23.860 a business that we had a few centuries back. 00:12:24.100 --> 00:12:27.220 Like every community had a farm. And if someone 00:12:27.220 --> 00:12:29.720 would ask like, who has the best milk? Everyone 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:32.039 would go like it's Uncle Bill's farm because 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:34.350 that is the power of a local business. And if 00:12:34.350 --> 00:12:36.429 you can create a roofing business like that, 00:12:36.649 --> 00:12:38.789 like if your community asks like who is the best 00:12:38.789 --> 00:12:41.549 best roofer for us, it's you, it's Chris. So 00:12:41.549 --> 00:12:44.110 that is maybe the future or it is the private 00:12:44.110 --> 00:12:46.149 equity. But one thing you just mentioned is that 00:12:46.149 --> 00:12:49.529 it is also about how you position yourself. So 00:12:49.529 --> 00:12:51.610 obviously you have multiple locations and you 00:12:51.610 --> 00:12:53.769 have branches and you have a leadership team 00:12:53.769 --> 00:12:58.409 as well. How do you train your team or how do 00:12:58.409 --> 00:13:00.450 you train roofing contractors in your classes 00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:03.570 about positioning or what is your positioning 00:13:03.570 --> 00:13:06.649 strategy for the coming time for your roofing 00:13:06.649 --> 00:13:09.269 company? Yeah. I think that our positioning is 00:13:09.269 --> 00:13:12.090 really a return to customer service. The roofing 00:13:12.090 --> 00:13:15.769 industry has overcomplicated things in my opinion. 00:13:15.929 --> 00:13:18.490 And I think that we've been so focused on the 00:13:18.490 --> 00:13:21.570 backend of your, you know, systems and processes 00:13:21.570 --> 00:13:24.690 and standard operating procedures and your different 00:13:24.690 --> 00:13:26.750 softwares. and marketing, you know, you've seen 00:13:26.750 --> 00:13:28.450 a lot of roofing companies that are marketing 00:13:28.450 --> 00:13:31.110 companies that do roofing, or they're sales companies 00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:34.070 that operate in the roofing space. And so for 00:13:34.070 --> 00:13:37.809 us, you know, we see there is demand for customer 00:13:37.809 --> 00:13:40.809 service, and I think the supply is pretty low. 00:13:40.929 --> 00:13:43.409 And so that's really where we're kind of positioning 00:13:43.409 --> 00:13:47.190 ourselves is a company that is you know, educated 00:13:47.190 --> 00:13:51.529 enough to know how to operate in the retail space 00:13:51.529 --> 00:13:54.110 or the restoration space. But

the focus isn't 00:13:54.110 --> 00:13:56.789 about our commissions and our revenue and our 00:13:56.789 --> 00:13:59.169 money. The focus is on customer service. And 00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:01.309 I often tell people, like, you can't fake that. 00:14:01.429 --> 00:14:03.370 You know, it's pretty easy for your customers 00:14:03.370 --> 00:14:06.889 to sense it. And so those that are really concerned 00:14:06.889 --> 00:14:09.590 about the customer and care about service, I 00:14:09.590 --> 00:14:11.990 think are in a position to do really well. You 00:14:11.990 --> 00:14:14.409 know, again, that the roofing industry for years 00:14:14.409 --> 00:14:18.139 has been about sky diamonds and, you know, Lambos 00:14:18.139 --> 00:14:21.120 and Rolexes and, you know, scaling the company. 00:14:21.139 --> 00:14:23.200 And we've kind of idolized people that were able 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:24.820 to do those things. And there's nothing wrong 00:14:24.820 --> 00:14:26.379 with those things. Like, I want to be very, very 00:14:26.379 --> 00:14:28.379 clear. I'm not saying that those are bad things. 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.159 That's not what my focus is. That's okay. But 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:34.120 I think that again, there's just a void for local 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:36.019 companies and not just the roofing industry like 00:14:36.019 --> 00:14:39.639 anything. There's a real void society, our culture 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:42.419 remembers what real customer service used to 00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:44.799 look like. And I think it's gotten fairly rare. 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:47.960 And I think there's going to be a demand for 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:50.409 that. Chris, don't you think that customer service 00:14:50.409 --> 00:14:53.309 is something that a customer experiences once 00:14:53.309 --> 00:14:55.970 they have became your customer, but in order 00:14:55.970 --> 00:14:58.769 to make them your customer, you have to make 00:14:58.769 --> 00:15:02.090 the sale first so they can experience what kind 00:15:02.090 --> 00:15:05.070 of customer experience or customer relationship 00:15:05.070 --> 00:15:08.169 strategy that you have in your company. And I 00:15:08.169 --> 00:15:10.950 think so it is easy for you to say, because you 00:15:10.950 --> 00:15:14.070 have been into this industry for like last 15 00:15:14.070 --> 00:15:16.250 years and you have that reputation, you have 00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:18.980 that strategy and you have that experience as 00:15:18.980 --> 00:15:23.480 well to just like make things work but if someone 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:26.000 like me or if there is someone just starting 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:29.679 out they have these fears and they find it difficult 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:32.379 to show up against guys like you or companies 00:15:32.379 --> 00:15:36.159 like yours and if they have to like yes maybe 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.279 they want to have the best customer service but 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:42.940 they are

against guys like yours so how can they 00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:46.639 show up against companies like yours or or like 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.120 big companies and make the sale in the first 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:51.779 place so the customer gets to experience what 00:15:51.779 --> 00:15:53.919 kind of customer service they have. No, that's 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.899 a great question. So I think a lot of those things 00:15:56.899 --> 00:15:59.379 that you just mentioned are based on assumptions 00:15:59.379 --> 00:16:04.000 and fears and not in reality. So I was talking 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:06.399 with a good friend of mine, and he's a very sharp 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:09.000 businessman. And he said, Chris, with your brand, 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:11.059 you could do this and you could do this. And 00:16:11.059 --> 00:16:14.200 I said, well, I said, my brand is strong inside 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:16.840 the industry. Other roofers know who at your 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:19.580 service roofing is. Homeowners don't. And he 00:16:19.580 --> 00:16:21.539 goes, no, Chris, you've been around for 15, 20 00:16:21.539 --> 00:16:23.740 years and you've done, you have great reviews. 00:16:23.980 --> 00:16:26.440 And I asked him, I said, name three roofing companies 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.279 here in our, where we live other than my company. 00:16:29.470 --> 00:16:31.889 And he named one and I said, well, yeah, but 00:16:31.889 --> 00:16:33.690 they're like, their business is on your street, 00:16:33.830 --> 00:16:35.809 right? Like you drive by them every day. And 00:16:35.809 --> 00:16:37.309 he goes, well, yeah. And I said, well, that doesn't 00:16:37.309 --> 00:16:39.490 count. So name any other roofing company and 00:16:39.490 --> 00:16:42.250 he couldn't name a single one. So in the roofing 00:16:42.250 --> 00:16:44.990 space, because most of it, like, yes, there's 00:16:44.990 --> 00:16:47.750 repair work and you can do maintenance agreements, 00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:50.129 but for the most part, you make a sale and that 00:16:50.129 --> 00:16:52.350 person doesn't need you. You know, that, that 00:16:52.350 --> 00:16:54.090 house doesn't need a new roof, hopefully for 00:16:54.090 --> 00:16:57.129 20 to 30 years. And they might move and need 00:16:57.129 --> 00:16:58.950 a house or refer you and that's, that's, that's 00:16:58.950 --> 00:17:01.850 all fine and well. There's branding and, and 00:17:01.850 --> 00:17:04.470 is really difficult in the roofing space. And 00:17:04.470 --> 00:17:06.970 so I think a lot of people assume those things, 00:17:06.970 --> 00:17:09.309 but they're not necessarily true. The other thing 00:17:09.309 --> 00:17:11.390 that I would, I would tell people is you have 00:17:11.390 --> 00:17:14.269 to prove it to your customer, not tell them, 00:17:14.450 --> 00:17:16.369 right? You have to show them what you're going 00:17:16.369 --> 00:17:19.200 to do, not. Tell them what you're going to do. 00:17:19.220 --> 00:17:21.160 Every single person that they meet with is going 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.480 to tell them the same thing. We use really great 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:25.940 products. We've got great reviews. We're going 00:17:25.940 --> 00:17:28.599 to communicate well. We really care about you. 00:17:28.619 --> 00:17:30.579 And there's no way for them to differentiate 00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:33.400 between them. So this is a topic I'm actually 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:35.660 doing a training in master your craft next week. 00:17:35.940 --> 00:17:38.039 Um, and this is something, a class that I do 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.980 for Owens Corning on selling value and not price. 00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:43.160 And really when it comes down to that, what I'm 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:46.980 telling guys is you have to prove it, not talk 00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:49.000 about it and it's the same thing with customer 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:51.559 service you have to show proof here's you know 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.579 social proof here's testimonials and actual things 00:17:54.579 --> 00:17:56.660 that have been said but far more than that here 00:17:56.660 --> 00:17:59.160 are the things that we actually do like here's 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:00.940 a picture of it here's what's going to happen 00:18:00.940 --> 00:18:03.220 here's what our workflow looks like here's what 00:18:03.220 --> 00:18:05.799 every step of the way because if you just tell 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:09.059 them it means nothing if you show them it it 00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:12.279 has a lot of impact and people are willing to 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.819 pay more to receive more but if they don't understand 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:17.920 they're going to receive more, then of course 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.079 they want to pay less. So there's brand new companies 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.700 out there that can survive. It's all about their 00:18:24.700 --> 00:18:27.579 message and their narratives. And so I think 00:18:27.579 --> 00:18:29.910 like you said, you know, If you're feeling that 00:18:29.910 --> 00:18:32.309 way, I think that that's, I want to challenge 00:18:32.309 --> 00:18:34.529 that. Is that based on like evidence in real 00:18:34.529 --> 00:18:36.970 world examples or is that based on your fears 00:18:36.970 --> 00:18:39.509 and assumptions? Because my guess is primarily 00:18:39.509 --> 00:18:41.470 it's based on fears and assumptions and you need 00:18:41.470 --> 00:18:43.450 to just put that out of your mind. It's actually 00:18:43.450 --> 00:18:46.250 correct because I have read so much about branding 00:18:46.250 --> 00:18:49.890 and one thing that I have noticed is that it's 00:18:49.890 --> 00:18:52.680 all assumption like A human mind, even you and 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:56.500 I, we see so many advertising online and offline 00:18:56.500 --> 00:18:59.019 every single day, but we hardly remember. If 00:18:59.019 --> 00:19:02.559 I ask you like name three headphone

brands, you 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:04.960 won't know any. No, even in the home services, 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.539 if you ask for an HVAC company here locally, 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:10.559 like I can probably name a couple maybe. But 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.819 I also think that when I go, when I need that 00:19:12.819 --> 00:19:16.500 guy, I don't immediately go to those names. Those, 00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:18.740 those names seem big. They have lots of overhead. 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:21.480 There's like, you know, I'm more. likely myself 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:24.559 as a consumer if I needed an HVAC electrical 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.460 plumber to post on Facebook and ask my network 00:19:28.460 --> 00:19:30.960 who they trust and who they recommend. I mean 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:34.660 I just did a my oven the heating element went 00:19:34.660 --> 00:19:38.079 out and so I still just googled and looked at 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.500 reviews and and then basically made a phone call 00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:42.500 and the first person that was able to take that 00:19:42.500 --> 00:19:44.359 call and schedule an appointment quickly is the 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:46.299 one who got the job. People especially in this 00:19:46.299 --> 00:19:48.750 industry but really people anywhere. have a really 00:19:48.750 --> 00:19:50.849 hard time getting out of their own perspective 00:19:50.849 --> 00:19:54.089 and into the perspective of their friend, neighbor, 00:19:54.390 --> 00:19:57.230 potential customer, whatever it is. And our perspectives 00:19:57.230 --> 00:20:00.309 are clouded with so many things from inside the 00:20:00.309 --> 00:20:02.490 industry. But again, if I had to name three electrical 00:20:02.490 --> 00:20:04.230 companies, I would have a really hard time doing 00:20:04.230 --> 00:20:06.670 that. And they're at least having lots of touch 00:20:06.670 --> 00:20:09.150 points. They a lot of times have the fleet of 00:20:09.150 --> 00:20:11.829 vehicles with wrapped vehicles. And so if you 00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:14.730 have a hard time creating a brand in plumbing, 00:20:14.990 --> 00:20:17.490 electrical, HVAC, roofing is going to be even 00:20:17.390 --> 00:20:19.430 harder because there's way more all of those 00:20:19.430 --> 00:20:21.769 other things you need licensing for. There are 00:20:21.769 --> 00:20:24.470 barriers to entry and still those companies have 00:20:24.470 --> 00:20:27.089 a really hard time building a brand, like a true 00:20:27.089 --> 00:20:29.309 brand that really means something. And so in 00:20:29.309 --> 00:20:34.089 roofing, I think it's over emphasized, overvalued. 00:20:34.430 --> 00:20:38.119 If you're a new guy just starting out, It really 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:40.420 all comes back down to service. How quickly can 00:20:40.420 --> 00:20:43.579 you return their call and get out on site? How 00:20:43.579 --> 00:20:46.380 much are you really looking to solve their problem 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:48.640 rather than sell them something and make money? 00:20:48.940 --> 00:20:51.819 And how concerned are you with helping them versus 00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:53.960 getting a paycheck or a commission? And if I 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:57.000 am not a new guy, how can I make myself memorable? 00:20:57.140 --> 00:20:59.240 Because I think so that is something that you 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:01.720 are referring to as well. If you can make your 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:05.339 company memorable for the human mind, then you 00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:07.640 can become the brand that they want to work with. 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:11.140 But unfortunately, if I am a roofer, I have a 00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:13.619 lot of opportunities, but because of the limitations 00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:16.559 that I have in my mentality, I can only think 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.220 of trucks, truck wraps. I can only think of yard 00:21:19.220 --> 00:21:22.700 signs. I can only think of all these stereotypical 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:24.940 things that other roofing contractors are doing, 00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:27.980 but that is not something that is going to make 00:21:27.980 --> 00:21:30.779 me memorable. So with all that experience that 00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:34.039 you have, what are your recommendations for the 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:35.940 roofing contractors in order to to make their 00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:38.019 companies memorable or how are you doing it? 00:21:38.180 --> 00:21:40.829 People remember how you made them feel. They 00:21:40.829 --> 00:21:43.029 don't remember what you told them. They don't 00:21:43.029 --> 00:21:44.950 remember what they saw. Like you just said, you 00:21:44.950 --> 00:21:47.049 can think of some yard signs and some truck wraps 00:21:47.049 --> 00:21:49.730 and maybe some commercials on TV. But again, 00:21:49.750 --> 00:21:51.490 there's a roofing company here that's been in 00:21:51.490 --> 00:21:54.029 my market for, for like a hundred years. They're 00:21:54.029 --> 00:21:56.170 like third generation, fourth generation. They 00:21:56.170 --> 00:21:58.509 sponsor the Cincinnati Reds. They're all over 00:21:58.509 --> 00:22:01.809 radio and TV. And if I still go down to my, and 00:22:01.809 --> 00:22:04.289 ask the random person, I go to the grocery store 00:22:04.289 --> 00:22:06.089 and just stop somebody and say, can you name 00:22:06.089 --> 00:22:07.869 a roofing company? They're not going to be able 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:10.769 to name that company. And so people don't remember 00:22:10.769 --> 00:22:12.650 those things. So the question becomes what do 00:22:12.650 --> 00:22:14.890 they remember? And whether you like it or not, 00:22:15.089 --> 00:22:17.430 they remember how you made them feel. You know, 00:22:17.569 --> 00:22:20.069 Adam Benzeman has been a, I have followed Adam 00:22:20.069 --> 00:22:22.450 Benzeman for a long time and he talks about three 00:22:22.450 --> 00:22:24.289 things that you need is trust,

need and money. 00:22:24.509 --> 00:22:27.410 Money I think becomes slightly irrelevant because 00:22:27.410 --> 00:22:29.569 if you need the work done, you gotta have the 00:22:29.569 --> 00:22:32.009 work done. And even the difference between my, 00:22:32.089 --> 00:22:34.410 the Delta, the difference between the highest 00:22:34.410 --> 00:22:36.569 price bid and the lowest price bid often isn't 00:22:36.569 --> 00:22:39.859 that egregious and so money's not super relevant 00:22:39.859 --> 00:22:42.920 the need well either they had a storm and they've 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:44.960 got a problem there's a need there or they're 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.680 if they're calling me there's a need that they 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:49.220 know the roof's old they know the roof's leaking 00:22:49.220 --> 00:22:51.519 whatever it is and so ultimately it really comes 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.660 down to trust and trust is an emotion you know 00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:57.329 it's not well a formula Well, they have this 00:22:57.329 --> 00:23:00.170 many reviews and this rated and been in business 00:23:00.170 --> 00:23:02.730 this long. Therefore I trust them. That's just 00:23:02.730 --> 00:23:05.130 not the way it works. And so when you're out 00:23:05.130 --> 00:23:07.269 on site with them, they're going to remember 00:23:07.269 --> 00:23:10.829 how you made them feel. Trust is a feeling. And 00:23:10.829 --> 00:23:13.069 so I don't know how many people in the roofing 00:23:13.069 --> 00:23:15.009 industry ever stopped to think about that and 00:23:15.009 --> 00:23:17.900 to think about when you trust someone. When you 00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:20.259 have that feeling of trust, what is it that that 00:23:20.259 --> 00:23:23.359 person did that gave you that feeling? And you 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:25.980 can then use that as a model and replicate that. 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.299 And so I want, when my people are on site with 00:23:29.299 --> 00:23:32.079 that homeowner, if their focus, if their concern 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:34.700 is on that person and serving them and solving 00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:37.480 their problems, not steering them to the outcome 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:40.039 that they want, not trying to pitch or sell them. 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.299 I think that they're going to, that's a really 00:23:43.299 --> 00:23:47.650 key way. of building that trust and giving them 00:23:47.650 --> 00:23:50.269 that feeling of trust. And, you know, we want 00:23:50.269 --> 00:23:52.609 them to. They should trust us. We do have a long 00:23:52.609 --> 00:23:54.410 history of doing things the right way and taking 00:23:54.410 --> 00:23:56.750 care of people. And again, this isn't a gimmick. 00:23:56.890 --> 00:24:00.099 It can be a gimmick. Like, you can... push that 00:24:00.099 --> 00:24:02.619 message and really try for those things. But 00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:04.440 if you're not actually truly committed to them, 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:06.059 I think that you're going to have short -term 00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:08.299 success and long -term failure. But yeah, again, 00:24:08.299 --> 00:24:11.579 I think what is it that translates into the feeling 00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:14.119 of trust? And then how do you replicate that? 00:24:14.140 --> 00:24:16.140 How do you deliver that on a consistent basis? 00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:19.299 It's such a nice example that you can be a company 00:24:19.299 --> 00:24:22.519 that sponsors everything locally, but the local 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:25.559 people still don't remember you because you have 00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:28.200 failed to connect emotionally with them. And 00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:31.349 I think so. that people love to think that humans 00:24:31.349 --> 00:24:34.269 make decisions with logic alone, but that's not 00:24:34.269 --> 00:24:37.730 the case. We make the decisions with logic and 00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:40.049 psycho. So it's and where psycho always comes 00:24:40.049 --> 00:24:42.930 first. There is a reason that we are called psychological 00:24:42.930 --> 00:24:45.930 creatures because psycho comes first and we rarely 00:24:45.930 --> 00:24:48.630 focus on the psycho part. The reason I am bringing 00:24:48.630 --> 00:24:52.359 this is that Earlier in this interview, you mentioned 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:54.740 that roofing contractors are obsessed with systems 00:24:54.740 --> 00:24:57.519 and SOPs and processes and scaling and writing 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.160 everything down on paper, making calculations, 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:03.119 equations and seeing that, okay, I will hit 10 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.579 million by next year and then giving them this 00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:08.200 feel good emotion. And that all feels good on 00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:10.779 paper, but you are someone who trains these people 00:25:10.779 --> 00:25:14.220 as well. Do you face a hard time training these 00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:16.640 people or actually bringing them to the reality 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:19.720 that logic alone won't make you a great company? 00:25:19.819 --> 00:25:22.720 So I don't think I struggle with that. You'd 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:24.559 have to ask the people that I consult for, but 00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:27.359 most of the people that I consult for, I continue 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.920 consulting for. Or if I do a private training, 00:25:30.220 --> 00:25:32.339 well over half of the companies that I do a private 00:25:32.339 --> 00:25:34.579 training for bring me back for another private 00:25:34.579 --> 00:25:36.700 training. And so that tells me that they're getting 00:25:36.700 --> 00:25:39.150 value out of it. So I think that I'm doing okay 00:25:39.150 --> 00:25:41.329 with that. The question then it becomes how. 00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:44.369 And so I can tell them what they're doing wrong 00:25:44.369 --> 00:25:46.329 and I can tell them what to do. And it's going 00:25:46.329 --> 00:25:48.470 to have very,

very little effect because we're 00:25:48.470 --> 00:25:51.869 not logical, rational beings where you are emotional. 00:25:52.289 --> 00:25:54.569 So what I have to do is show them. I have to 00:25:54.569 --> 00:25:57.369 get them to believe it. They have to see it in 00:25:57.369 --> 00:26:00.210 their eye. And so there's an exercise that I 00:26:00.210 --> 00:26:02.809 do, which is kind of exactly what you're talking 00:26:02.809 --> 00:26:04.890 about where I'll take a calendar. Like if you 00:26:04.890 --> 00:26:06.690 take a big whiteboard. And in the middle of the 00:26:06.690 --> 00:26:09.789 whiteboard, I just write one to 60, right? And 00:26:09.789 --> 00:26:13.210 that represents days. And then I go above that 00:26:13.210 --> 00:26:16.509 timeline and I ask them every single thing. I 00:26:16.509 --> 00:26:18.970 want them to give me everything that happens 00:26:18.970 --> 00:26:23.160 in the normal life cycle of a sale. from the 00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:25.920 initial phone call to the inspection, but really 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:29.039 needle in and when do the notes get updated into 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.140 the CRM? When do you order your measurements? 00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:33.680 When did you produce an estimate? You know, blah, 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:35.599 blah, blah, everything. And what you're going 00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:38.119 to see is there is just, if here's the timeline 00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:40.319 of the dates, there's all this stuff up here. 00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:42.710 I mean, there's a ton of things. And then I go, 00:26:42.710 --> 00:26:44.170 okay, great. And then I choose like a different 00:26:44.170 --> 00:26:46.250 color and I come below the timeline and I go, 00:26:46.250 --> 00:26:48.150 let's look at it from the customer's perspective. 00:26:48.349 --> 00:26:50.549 And I said, from the customer, where do they, 00:26:50.809 --> 00:26:52.650 okay, there's the initial call. And they're usually 00:26:52.650 --> 00:26:54.369 in the beginning, the first few days, there's 00:26:54.369 --> 00:26:56.170 a few different touch points and then there'll 00:26:56.170 --> 00:26:58.509 be a big gap and there'll be a couple more. And 00:26:58.509 --> 00:27:00.509 then they sign a contract and then there's a 00:27:00.509 --> 00:27:03.210 big gap and then they install the roof. And so 00:27:03.210 --> 00:27:07.299 this is a, when you see it. I can explain it. 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:09.380 I can tell it, but it's not going to have any 00:27:09.380 --> 00:27:12.619 real impact. When they write it out and they 00:27:12.619 --> 00:27:15.720 see it, they immediately see these large holes 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.819 and gaps. See how there's, you know, 50 to 80, 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:20.759 a hundred different things up on the, on the 00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:22.819 backside of the company, but there's only like 00:27:22.819 --> 00:27:25.980 10 or 12 for the customer. And usually what happens 00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:28.140 is by the time we get done, I step back and, 00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:30.319 and I don't even say anything. And the owner 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:31.619 of the company is looking at it and he's like, 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:34.140 Oh my God. And I go, you see it, right? And he 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:36.200 goes, yeah, I see it. I said, see, you've been 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.440 viewing this thing from your perspective the 00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:40.660 entire time, how to make your company more efficient, 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:43.160 how to be better trained, how to be more consistent, 00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:45.599 how to be this, how to be that. And you've completely 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.160 forgotten to think about your customer's experience, 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:51.799 what they see, what they feel. And, and so again, 00:27:52.410 --> 00:27:54.750 I can tell them that but they're not going to 00:27:54.750 --> 00:27:56.690 really grasp it but as soon as they actually 00:27:56.690 --> 00:27:59.609 see it and they decide oh my goodness look at 00:27:59.609 --> 00:28:02.630 this now we can go at least now you believe it 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:06.059 Now we, we've also visually, we can see the gaps, 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:08.859 the holes in the timeline, and we can now start 00:28:08.859 --> 00:28:10.720 to go in and fix this. And let's talk about, 00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:14.140 let's view this as a customer of XYZ roofing 00:28:14.140 --> 00:28:16.319 company. What are they experiencing? What are 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:18.279 they thinking? What are they, you know, and we 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:20.859 can walk through and plan that out. And the results 00:28:20.859 --> 00:28:22.859 that they have from that are generally pretty, 00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:25.670 pretty extensive. And what are the things in 00:28:25.670 --> 00:28:27.809 the roofing industry that you are not happy with? 00:28:27.970 --> 00:28:30.670 There are sales people that I tell them, don't 00:28:30.670 --> 00:28:32.829 get too big of a pipeline. If you get too big 00:28:32.829 --> 00:28:34.490 of a pipeline, they're just going to fire you 00:28:34.490 --> 00:28:36.960 and they're going to just... absorb your pipeline 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:39.180 and they would rather lose you than have to pay 00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:41.539 the commissions out on those. And man, is that 00:28:41.539 --> 00:28:44.319 just, it's slimy and shady. There's a company 00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:46.859 locally here in my market that just went out 00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:49.059 of business. And you know, I don't celebrate 00:28:49.059 --> 00:28:50.880 people's failures, but when this company went 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.079 out of business, I was, I was generally pretty 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:55.619 happy about it. And what they did is one of the 00:28:55.619 --> 00:28:58.559 owners has a government position and they racked 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:00.299 up, they kept stringing out their production,

00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.039 their labor crews for a few weeks and they racked 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:04.859 up about three, four weeks of money that they. 00:29:04.809 --> 00:29:07.170 them and then told them, we're not going to pay 00:29:07.170 --> 00:29:10.789 you. And then the Latinos community that was 00:29:10.789 --> 00:29:13.809 doing the labor, you know, threatened lawsuits 00:29:13.809 --> 00:29:16.410 or threatened whatever. And they said, if you 00:29:16.410 --> 00:29:18.670 do anything, we're going to call ICE and have 00:29:18.670 --> 00:29:21.250 you deported. Absolutely disgusting behavior. 00:29:21.309 --> 00:29:24.130 And that happens, you know, more than you probably 00:29:24.130 --> 00:29:27.589 think. Vandalism in the roofing industry is rampant. 00:29:28.109 --> 00:29:30.650 It's gotten really out of control. It's really, 00:29:30.650 --> 00:29:33.630 really bad. And you know, where guys go up and 00:29:33.630 --> 00:29:36.329 mimic wind damage, try to mimic hail damage. 00:29:36.450 --> 00:29:38.630 Finally, the industry is starting to call that 00:29:38.630 --> 00:29:40.930 out a little bit and you're seeing these videos. 00:29:40.930 --> 00:29:42.809 I mean, I get people that send me the videos 00:29:42.809 --> 00:29:45.150 before they post them because they know I speak 00:29:45.150 --> 00:29:46.829 out about these things and they'll send me the 00:29:46.829 --> 00:29:49.170 video and be like, hey, you know, my customer 00:29:49.170 --> 00:29:52.089 videoed this outside their window at the neighbor's 00:29:52.089 --> 00:29:54.289 roof and there's a guy up there damaging the 00:29:54.289 --> 00:29:57.630 roof. And so this industry is pretty quick to 00:29:57.630 --> 00:30:00.250 talk about how bad the insurance companies are 00:30:00.250 --> 00:30:03.029 and how bad the suppliers and the manufacturers 00:30:03.029 --> 00:30:05.640 are. greedy and keep raising prices. And yet 00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:08.079 a lot of them don't want to look internally at 00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:10.420 some of the things that they're doing. And so, 00:30:10.420 --> 00:30:12.259 yeah, the roofing industry has a lot of problems 00:30:12.259 --> 00:30:14.059 and they're deep seated and they're pretty... 00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:16.980 widespread. And so those are, those are the primary 00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:19.680 things that I really struggle with. And that's 00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:21.980 why John and I in Master your Craft, we have 00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:24.200 an application process. Like you're not allowed, 00:30:24.380 --> 00:30:26.720 you know, we sell training and we don't even, 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:28.400 if you go to the website, you're, you're going 00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:30.200 to get very, very little. We're not going to 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:32.299 show you much, even like what the topics are, 00:30:32.299 --> 00:30:34.460 what we do until you've been through an application 00:30:34.460 --> 00:30:36.940 process. And we spend about

two weeks vetting 00:30:36.940 --> 00:30:39.079 that company. We actually deny about a third 00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:42.240 of the people that try to buy our, our products. 00:30:42.339 --> 00:30:44.099 And I don't know many companies. that do that 00:30:44.099 --> 00:30:46.579 that actually you know make it difficult to buy 00:30:46.579 --> 00:30:50.619 or turn buyers away but John and I know how rampant 00:30:50.619 --> 00:30:54.309 that is And we don't want to help those people. 00:30:54.690 --> 00:30:57.569 And so we put up, you know, paywalls. We put 00:30:57.569 --> 00:30:59.509 up a lot of different guardrails to make sure 00:30:59.509 --> 00:31:01.650 that the people that are getting our content 00:31:01.650 --> 00:31:04.150 are people that we want in the industry and we 00:31:04.150 --> 00:31:06.250 want to help succeed. Cause there's just a lot 00:31:06.250 --> 00:31:07.670 of companies out there that we don't really want 00:31:07.670 --> 00:31:09.849 to help in any way, shape or form. I had another 00:31:09.849 --> 00:31:12.170 question for you, but you just mentioned that 00:31:12.170 --> 00:31:15.450 there are a third of roofing contractors that 00:31:15.450 --> 00:31:18.670 can't make master aircraft. So what is the criteria 00:31:18.670 --> 00:31:21.599 that you follow for roofing contract? to get 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.460 into your training. So our mission is to create 00:31:24.460 --> 00:31:27.059 a community of like -minded contractors committed 00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:29.140 to protecting homeowners and running a good clean 00:31:29.140 --> 00:31:32.440 business. And so that's really the bar. Do you 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:34.660 care about protecting homeowners and do you run 00:31:34.660 --> 00:31:37.059 a good clean business? And I don't want to get 00:31:37.059 --> 00:31:40.329 any deeper than that, but it... It's really not 00:31:40.329 --> 00:31:42.750 that hard to find out those things. John and 00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:44.630 I are very in tune with the industry. I mean, 00:31:44.650 --> 00:31:46.410 the community is large enough at this point where 00:31:46.410 --> 00:31:48.609 we can go into our own community and say, Hey, 00:31:48.849 --> 00:31:51.529 this company in this market has applied. Most 00:31:51.529 --> 00:31:53.829 likely there's a, we've got a company or two 00:31:53.829 --> 00:31:56.109 in that market and they'll usually come back 00:31:56.109 --> 00:31:58.230 and say like, dude, they're a great fit. I know 00:31:58.230 --> 00:32:00.410 those guys, they do a good job. They really, 00:32:00.410 --> 00:32:02.869 you know, uh, live out the vision and values 00:32:02.869 --> 00:32:05.309 of master your craft. Or they come back and they're 00:32:05.309 --> 00:32:07.619 like, dude, I'm telling you, like, I'm not, you 00:32:07.619 --> 00:32:09.859 do what you want to do, but I know those guys 00:32:09.859 --> 00:32:11.700 and they don't really fit the culture here. And 00:32:11.700 --> 00:32:14.740 so we've got

an actual process for what we do 00:32:14.740 --> 00:32:16.640 for vetting. But yeah, it usually takes us about 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:18.460 two weeks. It's really not that hard to figure 00:32:18.460 --> 00:32:20.200 out. And that's what we're looking for. Do we 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:22.460 believe that that company is committed to protecting 00:32:22.460 --> 00:32:24.279 homeowners and running a good clean business? 00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:26.380 And if the answer is no to either of those, then 00:32:26.380 --> 00:32:28.480 we just respectfully decline and just say, hey, 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.119 I'm sorry. Unfortunately, we're not able to. 00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:32.500 If you want to reapply in the future, you can. 00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:35.859 But honestly, those companies become... they 00:32:35.859 --> 00:32:39.119 operate under a different set of values aren't 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:41.740 really going to get the value out of our training 00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:44.339 either. Like our training is set up for those 00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:46.279 people that are already operating in a certain 00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:48.599 way and if you don't operate that way then this 00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:50.200 training is not gonna be super relevant there's 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:52.059 just not gonna be a lot of like cohesion and 00:32:52.059 --> 00:32:53.599 it's gonna be a waste of their time and money 00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:56.940 anyway. And so it's not us trying to be jerks. 00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:59.480 Um, I go, this isn't going to be good for you 00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:01.539 and you're not going to be good for our community. 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:03.859 And so let's just not do business together, but 00:33:03.859 --> 00:33:05.799 we wish you the best and good luck out there. 00:33:05.900 --> 00:33:08.640 You are right. You can't be everything to everyone. 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:10.940 You have to be something to someone. Besides 00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:13.779 this, you also mentioned earlier that there are 00:33:13.779 --> 00:33:15.700 things in the industry you are not happy with 00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:18.279 and you just share them. You also said that you 00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:21.500 are doing some things to solve these things. 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.019 Is there anything that you are doing besides 00:33:24.019 --> 00:33:26.559 master your craft to make the roofing industry 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:30.039 up? Yeah, so John and I have two other businesses 00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:33.240 which are relatively young. The first one is 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:35.819 called Unit 5 and it's an ice impact testing 00:33:35.819 --> 00:33:38.519 laboratory. And we are doing some incredibly 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:41.099 cool things there. We are building a mountain 00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:44.519 of data and we have a deeper understanding than 00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:47.299 anything we've ever seen. Most, most, not all, 00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:50.140 but most scientific studies that have been done 00:33:50.140 --> 00:33:53.119 regarding ice impacts on shingles. I believe, 00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.680 and this is my opinion, it's not a fact. that 00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:58.819 someone has come to that testing facility, that 00:33:58.819 --> 00:34:00.819 whatever, and said, here's the outcome we want 00:34:00.819 --> 00:34:02.660 you to come to and here's the money that we're 00:34:02.660 --> 00:34:04.450 going to give you. And they designed the test 00:34:04.450 --> 00:34:07.029 to get to the outcome. And so John and I are 00:34:07.029 --> 00:34:10.050 big believers in objective truth. And so we decided 00:34:10.050 --> 00:34:12.809 to write that wrong and kind of solve that problem. 00:34:12.929 --> 00:34:16.110 And so we are testing thousands of products and 00:34:16.110 --> 00:34:17.590 I don't want to go too much deeper into that 00:34:17.590 --> 00:34:19.750 one. The other one is actually one that I would 00:34:19.750 --> 00:34:21.429 like to talk about a little bit. And that's a 00:34:21.429 --> 00:34:24.469 product called Gladstone. And Gladstone is an 00:34:24.469 --> 00:34:27.559 AI software that John and I have built. The easiest 00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:30.519 way to describe it is to say that John and I, 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:32.599 as well as a couple of other people in the industry 00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:36.119 have kind of downloaded our brains into AI. And 00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.460 we, it took about a year to build and then we 00:34:38.460 --> 00:34:40.860 beta tested it for, I don't know, four months 00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:42.860 maybe. And we've actually been live with that 00:34:42.860 --> 00:34:45.659 product for about two months. And we did what's 00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:47.940 called like an early access. We just, we're still 00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:50.280 working out some last kinks, getting the user 00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:53.360 interface modified, but we've, we are revenueing 00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:55.900 and I'm, we're targeting a July for full launch. 00:34:56.389 --> 00:34:59.170 And so that will be something that is a per user 00:34:59.170 --> 00:35:01.829 base, like any person can just buy and there's 00:35:01.829 --> 00:35:04.489 no application process. And so for a certain 00:35:04.489 --> 00:35:06.610 dollar amount, which I'll just say right now, 00:35:06.690 --> 00:35:08.489 we're targeting a hundred dollars per month per 00:35:08.489 --> 00:35:10.969 user. And this software will integrate basically 00:35:10.969 --> 00:35:13.269 with your email. And the easiest way that I can 00:35:13.269 --> 00:35:15.989 think or say it is it's, it's like John having 00:35:15.989 --> 00:35:18.889 John or I writing your emails. So John and I 00:35:18.889 --> 00:35:20.889 have been teaching in the industry for a long 00:35:20.889 --> 00:35:23.610 time and we used to teach the what here's what 00:35:23.610 --> 00:35:25.460 you need to do. They go, Chris, I have this problem.

00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.260 I go, okay, here's what you need to do. And that 00:35:29.260 --> 00:35:31.480 helped, but it didn't solve the problem. And 00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:33.659 so then we started teaching the how. Well, here's 00:35:33.659 --> 00:35:35.960 what you need to do, but here's how we do it. 00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:38.820 And then last year we started teaching the why. 00:35:39.019 --> 00:35:40.940 Here's again, you've got this problem. Here's 00:35:40.940 --> 00:35:42.500 what you need to do. Here's how to do it. But 00:35:42.500 --> 00:35:44.960 here's why you need to do it this way. And if 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.719 you understand the why, then when things change 00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:50.780 and you can pivot on your own, because you actually 00:35:50.780 --> 00:35:53.039 understand why you're doing these things. And 00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:55.099 then we realized all of these things help, but 00:35:55.099 --> 00:35:57.360 they haven't solved the issue. And John said 00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.179 something on stage that really hit me. And he 00:36:00.179 --> 00:36:03.900 said, if your skill is a nine. but your communication 00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:07.340 is a four, your effectiveness is a four. It doesn't 00:36:07.340 --> 00:36:09.460 matter what you know or what you can do if you 00:36:09.460 --> 00:36:12.340 can't communicate that to somebody. And so that 00:36:12.340 --> 00:36:15.159 is a massive problem in our industry is that 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.800 people in this industry tend to lack a high level 00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:22.070 of communication. And so we We built the program 00:36:22.070 --> 00:36:25.429 to do that. And so it streamlines your communications, 00:36:25.710 --> 00:36:28.010 whether that's with your customer, maybe that's 00:36:28.010 --> 00:36:30.730 with the adjuster, maybe that's with whoever, 00:36:31.030 --> 00:36:33.409 like whoever you're dealing with in your business. 00:36:33.769 --> 00:36:36.650 And so the AI tool will already read the email 00:36:36.650 --> 00:36:39.250 that comes in and will basically already have 00:36:39.250 --> 00:36:43.030 a draft written for you that you can then proofread 00:36:43.030 --> 00:36:45.210 and use as training. You can send that email 00:36:45.210 --> 00:36:47.409 if you want, you can then tweak it. And most 00:36:47.409 --> 00:36:50.730 of the AI programs that are out there. are prompt 00:36:50.730 --> 00:36:53.050 -based. It's good data in, good data out. If 00:36:53.050 --> 00:36:55.289 you don't give it good prompts, it's not gonna 00:36:55.289 --> 00:36:57.590 give you good outputs. And most of the people 00:36:57.590 --> 00:36:59.829 using it don't know how to give it the right 00:36:59.829 --> 00:37:03.329 prompts. And so we didn't go that way. Our system 00:37:03.329 --> 00:37:05.230 will collect information. We will ask you, do 00:37:05.230 --> 00:37:07.690 you have this piece of information? And so we 00:37:07.690 --> 00:37:10.289 ask you, you upload whatever you do have of those, 00:37:10.530 --> 00:37:12.730 and then that's what everything is based on. 00:37:12.989 --> 00:37:15.570 And we don't wait for you to give a prompt and 00:37:15.570 --> 00:37:18.059 ask for something. We deliver it. And then you 00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:20.360 can prompt it to change it and tweak it and edit 00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:22.559 it if you like. And so what we're seeing from 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.420 that has been really astounding. I am shocked 00:37:25.420 --> 00:37:27.920 at how advanced it is because we're really still 00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:30.840 on version one, right? Like we just launched 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:33.800 and granted like through training it and beta, 00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:35.619 we've been through many different versions. But 00:37:35.619 --> 00:37:38.000 as far as like officially, it's just the first 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.639 version. We have got a laundry list of development, 00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:42.659 you know, software development that we want done. 00:37:42.989 --> 00:37:45.829 And it's going to be incredibly more powerful, 00:37:46.210 --> 00:37:48.610 but it already is. The feedback that we've gotten 00:37:48.610 --> 00:37:51.309 has been far better than I imagined. And so the 00:37:51.309 --> 00:37:53.650 people that are using it are reporting not only 00:37:53.650 --> 00:37:56.550 better success, but the real beauty is the amount 00:37:56.550 --> 00:37:59.489 of time that they're saving. And so most people 00:37:59.489 --> 00:38:01.730 that are using this product are saving somewhere 00:38:01.730 --> 00:38:04.969 between five and 10 hours a week of their time 00:38:04.969 --> 00:38:08.070 while also getting better results. And so they're 00:38:08.070 --> 00:38:10.210 making more money in less amount of time. That's 00:38:10.210 --> 00:38:12.809 more efficient. They can then either use that 00:38:12.809 --> 00:38:15.409 time to kind of restore the work -life balance 00:38:15.409 --> 00:38:18.150 and spend more time with family and hobbies, 00:38:18.150 --> 00:38:20.369 or they can use that time to go out and sell 00:38:20.369 --> 00:38:22.730 more and, and make more money and grow their 00:38:22.730 --> 00:38:25.150 business, whatever it is. And so that's something 00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:27.050 again, that, that John and I are super proud 00:38:27.050 --> 00:38:30.190 of. And again, that product is called Glidestone 00:38:30.190 --> 00:38:32.849 and it's actually very simple to use. You don't 00:38:32.849 --> 00:38:35.389 need a lot of training. There's not a big onboarding 00:38:35.389 --> 00:38:38.489 process. It's pretty simple. What is the primary 00:38:38.489 --> 00:38:42.190 purpose of this software Gladstone because you 00:38:42.190 --> 00:38:45.130 just touched a couple of points like communication 00:38:45.130 --> 00:38:47.750 with the insurance adjuster, communication with 00:38:47.750 --> 00:38:49.769 the customer, communication with the team or

00:38:49.769 --> 00:38:52.050 communication with the vendors or anything. But 00:38:52.050 --> 00:38:55.949 is that primarily a software, communication software 00:38:55.949 --> 00:38:58.590 that a roofing company can use to communicate 00:38:58.590 --> 00:39:01.769 with the adjuster because it has your knowledge 00:39:01.769 --> 00:39:04.530 and your brain integrated in that? Yeah. So I 00:39:04.530 --> 00:39:06.550 want to be very, very clear that this is not 00:39:06.550 --> 00:39:09.800 a like claims handling software. That's not what 00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:12.699 it's designed to be at all. It's a communication 00:39:12.699 --> 00:39:15.840 software. It's meant to streamline to make more 00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:17.900 effective and more efficient communications. 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:21.300 But yes, it is trained on, again, most of the 00:39:21.300 --> 00:39:22.699 other things that are out there. There's a lot 00:39:22.699 --> 00:39:24.900 of guys that have been building their own chat 00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:28.440 GBT model or using other softwares, but those 00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:31.159 softwares are all still based on either what 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:33.960 that user knows and has put into it, or what's 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:36.639 just out there in the public space. And that's 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:40.000 not what ours is. Ours is downloading John and 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.480 Mai's brain. So not only the leverage points 00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:46.079 that we use, not only the data sets that we use, 00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:50.199 I think that the model is trained on a tighter, 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:53.239 better set of data than anything else that's 00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:56.199 out there, but it's also going to communicate 00:39:56.199 --> 00:39:59.099 in the tone and the way that we communicate. 00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:01.900 And so if you're a salesperson in the roofing 00:40:01.900 --> 00:40:04.670 industry, You know, if you're talking to an insurance 00:40:04.670 --> 00:40:07.030 adjuster and you're like, Hey, I need drip edge 00:40:07.030 --> 00:40:10.230 on the rakes and ease. If you, the homeowner 00:40:10.230 --> 00:40:12.030 reads that email maybe, and they're like, what 00:40:12.030 --> 00:40:14.730 is drip edge? What's a rake? What's an Eve? And 00:40:14.730 --> 00:40:16.949 so then you've got to switch your speak. And 00:40:16.949 --> 00:40:18.230 then when you're talking to the homeowner, you 00:40:18.230 --> 00:40:20.389 got to say, well, you know, uh, it's a metal 00:40:20.389 --> 00:40:22.070 flashing goes around the perimeter of the roof. 00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:25.019 You know, and the EVE is like the gutter line 00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:26.860 and the rake is the edge of the house that's 00:40:26.860 --> 00:40:29.420 on an angle. And you know what I mean? And so 00:40:29.420 --> 00:40:32.860 I don't think that other programs are doing those 00:40:32.860 --> 00:40:35.059 things. They're just not doing the communication 00:40:35.059 --> 00:40:38.159 piece very well. Another example I would give 00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:43.000 is John and I do these classes. And so, I mean, 00:40:43.059 --> 00:40:47.099 we probably each do 40 to 60 a year. And there's 00:40:47.099 --> 00:40:49.400 on average of a hundred roofers in the room. 00:40:49.820 --> 00:40:52.380 And I asked them almost every single time towards 00:40:52.380 --> 00:40:54.760 the end of the class, I say, what percentage 00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:57.300 of today's information do you think you're going 00:40:57.300 --> 00:41:00.960 to retain? And the most common answer is 20%. 00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:05.090 And I said, okay. And now. I think that's fair. 00:41:05.489 --> 00:41:07.510 Now, how many of you are going to planning on 00:41:07.510 --> 00:41:10.090 going back to your office and training your team 00:41:10.090 --> 00:41:12.469 on these things? And you know, everybody pretty 00:41:12.469 --> 00:41:14.690 much says yes. And I said, okay, and when you 00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:17.590 train them, you take 20 % of the content and 00:41:17.590 --> 00:41:19.510 you train them, how much, what percent are they 00:41:19.510 --> 00:41:22.269 going to retain of yours? And they go, Oh crap, 00:41:22.630 --> 00:41:25.789 20%. And I said, what's 20 % of 20 %? I believe 00:41:25.789 --> 00:41:30.210 is 4%. And so another way of looking at Glenstone 00:41:30.210 --> 00:41:36.090 is or imagine if there was something that retained 00:41:36.090 --> 00:41:39.469 a hundred percent of every training John and 00:41:39.469 --> 00:41:42.849 I did. And then that was writing your emails 00:41:42.849 --> 00:41:45.489 and handling your communication. It's just, it's 00:41:45.489 --> 00:41:48.650 hard to really kind of grasp the gap between 00:41:48.650 --> 00:41:51.250 those two things. And so, you know, one other 00:41:51.250 --> 00:41:53.010 huge problem that we have in the industry is 00:41:53.010 --> 00:41:55.550 that it's become so complicated, especially on 00:41:55.550 --> 00:41:57.869 the restoration side. So not only internally 00:41:57.869 --> 00:42:01.670 do you have all of these softwares and you go 00:42:01.670 --> 00:42:03.269 into your sales meeting and they've got these 00:42:03.269 --> 00:42:05.489 directives and things they want you to do, and 00:42:05.489 --> 00:42:07.969 you've got to learn your price conditioning and 00:42:07.969 --> 00:42:10.349 objection handling. But on the claims side, on 00:42:10.349 --> 00:42:12.389 the restoration side of the industry, it's gotten 00:42:12.389 --> 00:42:16.010 incredibly difficult and all of this training 00:42:16.010 --> 00:42:18.329 and knowledge that you have to have. And so recruiting 00:42:18.329 --> 00:42:20.409 has become very, very hard. See, in the happy 00:42:20.409 --> 00:42:22.809 times, you just tell anybody that had a little 00:42:22.809 --> 00:42:25.369 hustle, a little... You know, get up and go, 00:42:25.670 --> 00:42:27.389 Hey, you know, if you

come knock doors for me, 00:42:27.409 --> 00:42:29.769 you can probably make a hundred, 200 grand. That's 00:42:29.769 --> 00:42:31.650 not the way it works anymore. You know, now it's 00:42:31.650 --> 00:42:33.349 like, Hey, if you, if you go out there and you 00:42:33.349 --> 00:42:35.369 really hustle and you really grind and you study 00:42:35.369 --> 00:42:37.469 and you take the training, you know, in like 00:42:37.469 --> 00:42:39.769 four months, you'll get a pretty good size commission 00:42:39.769 --> 00:42:43.210 and that doesn't sell real well. And so the other 00:42:43.210 --> 00:42:46.170 thing that Gladstone does is it takes a low skill 00:42:46.170 --> 00:42:48.630 person. And when I say, I talk a lot about low 00:42:48.630 --> 00:42:50.329 skill and high skill and medium skill people. 00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.139 What I generally mean by that is experience, 00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:55.820 but you know, you can still have a low experience, 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:57.880 high skill guy. They're just pretty rare, but 00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:00.659 it takes your low skill people and it, you know, 00:43:00.699 --> 00:43:02.840 I ask guys in these classes, how long does it 00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:05.239 take for you to take a low skill guy and get 00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:07.800 him to like, like a medium to high skill guy? 00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:09.679 And generally the answer is somewhere between 00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:11.900 six months and two years, but I always hear the 00:43:11.900 --> 00:43:14.909 answer. If possible, it'd take a year. Or like, 00:43:15.010 --> 00:43:17.070 if it ever happened, it would take this long. 00:43:17.250 --> 00:43:19.309 Meaning a lot of guys wash out of the industry 00:43:19.309 --> 00:43:22.309 before that happens. And so this is a way that 00:43:22.309 --> 00:43:25.230 you can take a low -skill, low -experience guy 00:43:25.230 --> 00:43:28.750 and he is communicating at a high level, at a 00:43:28.750 --> 00:43:31.269 very effective level immediately. And that's 00:43:31.269 --> 00:43:34.110 not going to happen through ChatGBT. That's not 00:43:34.110 --> 00:43:35.670 going to happen with some of these other programs 00:43:35.670 --> 00:43:37.769 and things that we see out there. I'm going to 00:43:37.769 --> 00:43:40.760 come back to how Gladstone is. helping with the 00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:43.179 recruiting. But allow me to make a comparison 00:43:43.179 --> 00:43:45.739 here. I don't know if it is right or wrong, but 00:43:45.739 --> 00:43:49.599 what you just said about the communication. Nowadays, 00:43:49.780 --> 00:43:53.760 what contractors do is that they, if they have 00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:56.579 a query, they just go to Facebook group or any 00:43:56.579 --> 00:43:59.159 kind of social platform that they use. They post 00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:01.880 it in that group. And then there are a bunch 00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:05.260 of comments under that post on how to handle 00:44:05.260 --> 00:44:08.389 this situation. And there are bashes and pulling 00:44:08.389 --> 00:44:10.829 a leg and everything else as well. Do you think 00:44:10.829 --> 00:44:13.210 that I don't know that if that is a comparison 00:44:13.210 --> 00:44:15.590 we should make with Gladstone or not, but if 00:44:15.590 --> 00:44:18.630 that has to be made, do you think that Facebook 00:44:18.630 --> 00:44:21.429 groups and these kinds of groups give you more 00:44:21.429 --> 00:44:25.329 exposure to experience of other roofing contractors 00:44:25.329 --> 00:44:28.409 as well? Because now you are giving your messages 00:44:28.409 --> 00:44:32.150 and your problems to contractors like with the 00:44:32.150 --> 00:44:34.829 years of experiences and with different locations 00:44:34.829 --> 00:44:38.320 and backgrounds and cultures and mindsets. And 00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:41.099 it's not just you and Joan, but now there are 00:44:41.099 --> 00:44:44.500 like 100 or 1000 or 5000 members of that Facebook 00:44:44.500 --> 00:44:47.219 group. So the Facebook groups have been instrumental 00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:50.019 to the industry. It just allows them to communicate 00:44:50.019 --> 00:44:52.440 and see that, oh, this isn't just my problem. 00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:55.099 Everyone's having this or to get new ideas and 00:44:55.099 --> 00:44:57.219 to pass those along. It's been very, very good. 00:44:57.400 --> 00:45:00.360 However, right now, yes, I think that, you know, 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:02.519 one of those problems that Gladstone solves is 00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:05.059 the time that it takes you to formulate. So if 00:45:05.059 --> 00:45:07.380 you, you're a smoothing salesperson and you wake 00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:10.559 up, you've got four emails from an adjuster on 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:12.760 a supplement or whatever, who knows, whatever 00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:15.340 it is, you have to frame your mind. Those four 00:45:15.340 --> 00:45:17.679 different, uh, customers have different situations. 00:45:17.780 --> 00:45:19.940 One's a wind claim, one's a hail claim, and one 00:45:19.940 --> 00:45:22.480 has this shingle and that shingle and this. And 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:25.380 so for you to respond, you have to reevaluate 00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:28.329 the whole file. and kind of familiarize yourself 00:45:28.329 --> 00:45:30.110 again with that file and then you think well 00:45:30.110 --> 00:45:31.730 there's probably I don't know should I write 00:45:31.730 --> 00:45:33.429 it this way should I do this I don't know what 00:45:33.429 --> 00:45:35.170 to do I'm gonna go to Facebook and I asked the 00:45:35.170 --> 00:45:37.889 question and then there's 35 answers and you 00:45:37.889 --> 00:45:40.320 know from experience that Five of those are pretty 00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:42.539 good and 30 of those are probably pretty terrible, 00:45:42.539 --> 00:45:44.559 but it still takes you an hour to figure out 00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:47.079 which five are the five

that you want and, and, 00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:49.519 and siphon through those. And then you got to 00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:51.820 take those five comments that were good comments 00:45:51.820 --> 00:45:53.780 and think about that and then write your email. 00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:56.940 Or if you're using Gladstone, you open your email 00:45:56.940 --> 00:45:59.840 and the email that John or I would write is sitting 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:03.400 there waiting for you. And so it saves a tremendous 00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:06.059 amount of time on those things. But to answer 00:46:06.059 --> 00:46:07.940 your question a little bit more directly about 00:46:07.940 --> 00:46:10.900 the. Facebook groups, you know, yeah, I spend 00:46:10.900 --> 00:46:12.940 some time on those. Like I own one of those Facebook 00:46:12.940 --> 00:46:16.039 groups. Master your craft is John and my Facebook 00:46:16.039 --> 00:46:19.119 page. He named that roofing siding and more is 00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:21.219 John's Facebook page, but I spend a lot of time 00:46:21.219 --> 00:46:24.460 there. And there's 40, 45 ,000 people there. 00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:27.320 You also have a lot of these other Facebook pages 00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:32.360 that have 60, 80 ,000 people. And there's a lot 00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:35.460 of people out there that can learn a lot from 00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:38.579 reading those posts and comments, but it's a 00:46:38.579 --> 00:46:40.500 small percentage of people because it takes a 00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:43.480 lot of discipline. to you have to learn who are 00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:46.440 the people you want to value their comments and 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.159 who are not. And so you have to spend a lot of 00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:51.579 time on there thinking about it and before you're 00:46:51.579 --> 00:46:54.820 really going to extract any value. But once you 00:46:54.820 --> 00:46:57.699 do, you can extract a lot of value. And so, but 00:46:57.699 --> 00:47:00.099 most guys get on there and they're new to the 00:47:00.099 --> 00:47:02.159 industry. They don't know these things. They 00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:04.820 put a comment out there and they get, you know, 00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:07.179 20 different guys giving them 20 different ideas. 00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:09.659 And basically it's just confirmation bias. The 00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:11.980 one that sounds like what they wanted to do or 00:47:11.980 --> 00:47:13.400 what they were thinking. They're like, yeah, 00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:15.719 you're right. That is what I should do. And then 00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.019 they go out and do that and they kind of shoot 00:47:18.019 --> 00:47:20.260 themselves in the foot. And so John and I have 00:47:20.260 --> 00:47:23.539 been trying to train people. on objective truth 00:47:23.539 --> 00:47:27.159 and critical thinking and shift the mindsets. 00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:29.880 And it's difficult to do. Like, how do you shift 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:32.199 the mindset of an entire industry? Especially 00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:34.059 there's all these new guys that are still flooding 00:47:34.059 --> 00:47:37.960 into the industry. And so that's where the Gladstone 00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:40.019 concept really came from. You know, when we started 00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:42.239 Master Your Craft, it was with the intention 00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:46.800 of training many people... at one time. So I 00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:48.559 probably have on average about five people a 00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:50.360 day in the industry that reach out to me for 00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:52.440 help. Chris, I've got this issue. Here's what's 00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.619 going on. Can you help me? I can't stop my day 00:47:55.619 --> 00:47:57.760 and do that with five different people every 00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:00.539 single day. But I can get on a Zoom or, you know, 00:48:00.820 --> 00:48:03.519 a digital training and deliver a piece of content 00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:06.199 that dozens or hundreds of people can then watch. 00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:09.199 And so it makes my time and therefore my output, 00:48:09.500 --> 00:48:12.599 my influence, my whatever, a lot more efficient. 00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:15.059 And so it's really the same thing that there's 00:48:15.059 --> 00:48:16.960 only so many people in the industry that truly 00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:19.360 want to master their craft, that truly want to 00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:22.320 learn at a deep understanding how to do those 00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.460 things. And so that's great. And for them that 00:48:24.460 --> 00:48:26.500 that's fantastic. But for the rest of the industry, 00:48:26.920 --> 00:48:29.460 there's some real problems and it's the homeowners 00:48:29.460 --> 00:48:31.869 that are suffering. And so that's kind of why 00:48:31.869 --> 00:48:34.849 we created the, the GlideStone tool is to help 00:48:34.849 --> 00:48:37.670 really anyone. It's not a silver bullet. It's 00:48:37.670 --> 00:48:40.590 not an easy button that just automatically, you 00:48:40.590 --> 00:48:43.150 know, changes everything, but it's as close to 00:48:43.150 --> 00:48:45.130 an easy button as I've seen in this industry. 00:48:45.789 --> 00:48:48.909 And again, you can understand the what, maybe 00:48:48.909 --> 00:48:51.489 the how, maybe even the why, but if you can't 00:48:51.489 --> 00:48:53.389 communicate those things, it doesn't really matter. 00:48:53.550 --> 00:48:55.630 And that's something that John and I have shown 00:48:55.630 --> 00:48:58.139 over the years to be very good at. And so again, 00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:01.320 you know, the ability for that person to log 00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:05.579 in to the platform, have the file already built 00:49:05.579 --> 00:49:08.059 and have a response that's coming directly out 00:49:08.059 --> 00:49:11.059 of the brain of me and John and other core people 00:49:11.059 --> 00:49:14.050 is a pretty darn powerful. I

just have a few 00:49:14.050 --> 00:49:16.170 more questions for you, Chris, that you just 00:49:16.170 --> 00:49:18.550 mentioned that Gladstone can help with recruiting 00:49:18.550 --> 00:49:21.309 as well. And correct me if I am wrong here, but 00:49:21.309 --> 00:49:24.469 what I can think of is that it definitely does 00:49:24.469 --> 00:49:27.250 not help with creation of systems and processes 00:49:27.250 --> 00:49:30.389 since it is a communication tool. But let's just 00:49:30.389 --> 00:49:32.650 say that if I am a roofing contractor and I am 00:49:32.650 --> 00:49:34.969 struggling with hiring the right people and I 00:49:34.969 --> 00:49:37.889 think so that everyone runs for a paycheck and 00:49:37.889 --> 00:49:40.730 people just don't want to do quality work anymore. 00:49:41.030 --> 00:49:43.539 Like I have all... those stereotypical beliefs 00:49:43.539 --> 00:49:47.159 that roofers hold. Can Gladstone help me with 00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:50.119 the interview process of the candidate that I 00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:53.119 want to interview? Not yet. So currently it is 00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:56.820 based on, it is a communication tool, but our 00:49:56.820 --> 00:50:01.019 roadmap has way more than that. So I think, and 00:50:01.019 --> 00:50:03.119 I don't know what the timeline is, we've actually 00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:05.880 got an open round of investment going on. And 00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:08.199 so the lion's share of the money that we're raising 00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:11.400 is to speed up development. So I know that... 00:50:11.179 --> 00:50:13.579 if we have X dollars, we can have everything 00:50:13.579 --> 00:50:15.920 on our development roadmap in probably about 00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:18.340 four months. But if we have to bootstrap that 00:50:18.340 --> 00:50:21.159 and reinvest the profits into that, it could 00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:24.579 take a year or two or possibly even longer. So 00:50:24.579 --> 00:50:26.260 I don't know what the timeline is, but we, one 00:50:26.260 --> 00:50:28.920 of the things that we envision is it's not just 00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:32.239 on John and I on how we, you know, help a homeowner 00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:34.719 when they have an insurance claim. It's not just 00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:37.869 on how we write emails. people want a lot of 00:50:37.869 --> 00:50:41.250 other information from us. And so I think that 00:50:41.250 --> 00:50:44.889 there is a way we have just hundreds of hours 00:50:44.889 --> 00:50:48.269 of our recorded content built into the brain 00:50:48.269 --> 00:50:52.050 of the AI and it is able to speak in our tone 00:50:52.050 --> 00:50:54.889 and our inflection and our word choice very well. 00:50:55.210 --> 00:50:57.809 And there will be a version hopefully soon where 00:50:57.809 --> 00:51:00.360 you can ask anything. And it's basically now 00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:02.500 instead of having John and I inside your company 00:51:02.500 --> 00:51:05.380 writing your emails, you have John and I inside 00:51:05.380 --> 00:51:08.199 your company as a private consultant full time. 00:51:08.300 --> 00:51:11.159 And so you might say, Hey, I've got, you know, 00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:14.159 interviewee A who had these strengths and weaknesses. 00:51:14.219 --> 00:51:16.320 And this is the things that they said. Here's 00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:18.880 interviewer B. You might record those interviews 00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:21.500 and just upload them into Gladstone. And you're 00:51:21.500 --> 00:51:24.340 going to have either John or I, or a hybrid of 00:51:24.340 --> 00:51:26.900 us saying here are the red flags that we see 00:51:26.900 --> 00:51:28.539 with each of these. Here are the pros and the 00:51:28.539 --> 00:51:31.840 cons. Here's what I would do personally. But 00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:34.099 if you can do either one, but if you're going 00:51:34.099 --> 00:51:35.800 to do this one, you need to be looking out for 00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:37.599 these things. If you're going to hire this person. 00:51:37.579 --> 00:51:39.639 you need to really look out for these things. 00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:43.099 And so it can become a tool that, again, it's 00:51:43.099 --> 00:51:45.840 like having John and I sitting in your office. 00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:49.219 And what was your testing process when you were 00:51:49.219 --> 00:51:52.119 creating this? Like, did you have anything like 00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:55.480 that where John and you like would write your 00:51:55.480 --> 00:51:58.059 responses to a specific scenario and then you 00:51:58.059 --> 00:52:01.199 would have Gladstone review that specific scenario 00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:03.900 as well and then see and cross match that what 00:52:03.900 --> 00:52:07.639 kind of response both of you generate and may 00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:10.099 calculate that. Yes. Yeah. And what's funny too 00:52:10.099 --> 00:52:13.099 is that John and I are usually going to approach 00:52:13.099 --> 00:52:15.219 the exact same situation from a very different 00:52:15.219 --> 00:52:17.579 angle. And that's one of the beauties about Mastercraft 00:52:17.579 --> 00:52:20.019 and what we do and how we teach is we're not 00:52:20.019 --> 00:52:21.960 telling you, here's what you should do, here's 00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:24.099 the right way. What we're doing is telling you, 00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:26.159 here's what I would do, but here's what John 00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:28.300 would do. Both of these are going to work. The 00:52:28.300 --> 00:52:30.760 real secret sauce, the key is understanding that 00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:31.960 even though we're both coming from different 00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:34.679 angles, we're both using the exact same principles, 00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:37.769 the same understanding. And so, yes, so when 00:52:37.769 --> 00:52:40.250 we, we first, we uploaded and trained all of 00:52:40.250 --> 00:52:42.989 the documentation and all of those things, all 00:52:42.989 -->

00:52:45.590 of our leverage points, all of our, the way that 00:52:45.590 --> 00:52:48.110 we do things. And we also, you know, whenever 00:52:48.110 --> 00:52:50.409 John and I are doing a training, we're usually 00:52:50.409 --> 00:52:52.849 miked up, right? There's a little DJI mic hanging 00:52:52.849 --> 00:52:55.289 on the shirt. And so we're able to put all of 00:52:55.289 --> 00:52:57.619 that transcriptions right into it. And so we 00:52:57.619 --> 00:52:59.840 started by feeding it all of those things. And 00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:02.000 then we gave it real world data. Like I own a 00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:04.739 roofing company and we also have all of the companies 00:53:04.739 --> 00:53:07.440 in the master craft community. And so everything 00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:10.360 that we do, we test first in my business at your 00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:12.860 service roofing, and then we test it in a select 00:53:12.860 --> 00:53:15.400 group of master craft businesses. And then we 00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:19.239 test it to the wider master craft community before 00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:21.360 we actually, you know, bring it out to the public, 00:53:21.559 --> 00:53:24.219 to the market. And so, yeah, we took it with 00:53:24.219 --> 00:53:26.500 my company first and then with a select group 00:53:26.500 --> 00:53:31.460 of other companies and we allowed it to create 00:53:31.460 --> 00:53:33.989 its own output. And then went back and said, 00:53:34.230 --> 00:53:36.610 you know, this, this is a word that should rarely 00:53:36.610 --> 00:53:39.989 ever be used, or this was too assertive, or this 00:53:39.989 --> 00:53:42.010 was too technical, or, you know what I mean? 00:53:42.150 --> 00:53:44.670 And, and just a lot of those things back and 00:53:44.670 --> 00:53:46.969 forth before it really started to work itself 00:53:46.969 --> 00:53:49.570 out. And it's now at the point, I told this story 00:53:49.570 --> 00:53:52.050 on another, I think podcast, but there's a guy 00:53:52.050 --> 00:53:53.929 that was using the software and I didn't necessarily 00:53:53.929 --> 00:53:56.480 know who the ones were that were using it. So 00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:59.000 he reached out to me and he's in the mastercraft 00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:00.820 community and he's a friend of mine. He goes, 00:54:00.940 --> 00:54:03.099 Chris, I'm really stuck on this one. Here's the, 00:54:03.099 --> 00:54:05.179 the latest, you know, responses. Here's some 00:54:05.179 --> 00:54:07.380 of the information that I have. And this is the 00:54:07.380 --> 00:54:09.320 response that this is the email that I was going 00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:12.360 to send. And I read it and I thought, man, that's 00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:15.280 really good. I thought, man, these guys in mastercraft, 00:54:15.340 --> 00:54:17.480 they're really starting to get it. They're really 00:54:17.480 --> 00:54:19.840 starting to understand it. What a beautiful email. 00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:21.579 And I go to, you know, my head, I said, there's 00:54:21.579 --> 00:54:23.159 a couple of little things that I would tweak, 00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:25.559 but very, very minimal. and it's not even really 00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:27.519 worth talking about those things so I responded 00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:30.099 back to this person with two words and all it 00:54:30.099 --> 00:54:33.059 said was solid gold and the next response I got 00:54:33.059 --> 00:54:35.639 was good because I ran it through Gladstone and 00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:37.820 that's the email that it put out and I thought 00:54:37.820 --> 00:54:41.570 so On one hand, I'm like, well, I thought these 00:54:41.570 --> 00:54:43.969 guys were learning, their skill level was increasing. 00:54:44.170 --> 00:54:45.889 So I was disappointed there, but on the other 00:54:45.889 --> 00:54:48.190 hand, I was seeing what Gladstone was doing in 00:54:48.190 --> 00:54:50.550 the real world. And yeah, I mean, my, my response 00:54:50.550 --> 00:54:52.869 was, man, that is solid gold. Like I was a proud 00:54:52.869 --> 00:54:55.570 dad. Like, yes, that is beautiful. And then the 00:54:55.570 --> 00:54:57.909 feedback that we've had, I keep going back to 00:54:57.909 --> 00:55:00.389 my operations director going, what's the negative 00:55:00.389 --> 00:55:02.349 feedback? And he's like, well, there's not really 00:55:02.349 --> 00:55:04.210 like negative. There's some things to tweak. 00:55:04.690 --> 00:55:06.449 There's some bugs and kinks that we got to work 00:55:06.449 --> 00:55:09.289 out. Um, but nobody is saying. that this is taking 00:55:09.289 --> 00:55:11.670 them more time. Nobody's saying that they're 00:55:11.670 --> 00:55:14.090 not getting results. Some of the feedback has 00:55:14.090 --> 00:55:16.730 been absolutely outstanding. And there's a couple 00:55:16.730 --> 00:55:19.150 of companies that are really diligent about tracking 00:55:19.150 --> 00:55:20.929 everything in their business where the owner 00:55:20.929 --> 00:55:23.710 has got processes in place to track time, how 00:55:23.710 --> 00:55:25.590 long it takes to respond to an email, how long 00:55:25.590 --> 00:55:28.170 it takes for a file to close, how long it takes 00:55:28.170 --> 00:55:30.909 for the, like everything. And he's, the feed, 00:55:31.050 --> 00:55:33.070 the data that we've seen there has been shocking, 00:55:33.150 --> 00:55:35.329 to be quite honest. I mean, there, there's... 00:55:35.230 --> 00:55:37.369 There's, there, there, there people are saving 00:55:37.369 --> 00:55:42.050 like 20 to 40 % of their time. And that's, that's 00:55:42.050 --> 00:55:44.570 pretty crazy to me. Is there anything that you 00:55:44.570 --> 00:55:48.269 feel you can add to this interview? Well, I tend 00:55:48.269 --> 00:55:51.989 to get the question a lot of if you could tell 00:55:51.989 --> 00:55:54.570 a new guy in the industry, one piece of advice 00:55:54.570 --> 00:55:57.650 or things like that. And so there might be, and

00:55:57.650 --> 00:56:00.079 I don't know your audience that well. But I'm 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:01.820 guessing that those people that are watching 00:56:01.820 --> 00:56:04.039 it, there might be some people thinking like, 00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:06.179 what's one thing that you can point me to or 00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:08.719 what should I be doing? So I'll rattle off a 00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:10.940 couple of my kind of standard answers at this 00:56:10.940 --> 00:56:12.900 point, but I think I stand by them. I think that 00:56:12.900 --> 00:56:14.340 they're important. The first thing that I would 00:56:14.340 --> 00:56:16.860 tell people is actually the first core principle 00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:19.719 in master your craft is slow down. So many mistakes 00:56:19.719 --> 00:56:23.019 are made by rushing and, and so one, yes, on 00:56:23.019 --> 00:56:25.280 the micro level, when you're dealing with a customer, 00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:28.079 slow down. Maybe you have to talk to an insurance 00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:30.579 adjuster about one of your customer's claims. 00:56:30.780 --> 00:56:33.280 Slow down. There's so many mistakes that are 00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:36.000 made when we're rushing. Just take a deep breath, 00:56:36.219 --> 00:56:40.199 slow down, try to control your emotions. When 00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:41.800 you're dealing in the restoration side of the 00:56:41.800 --> 00:56:44.960 business, objective truth is key. Evidence is 00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:48.420 evidence. Truth is truth. And so focus on those 00:56:48.420 --> 00:56:51.300 things. Quit trying to win with arguments. Quit 00:56:51.300 --> 00:56:54.019 trying to win, you know, by just trying harder 00:56:54.019 --> 00:56:58.380 and start focusing on on evidence and facts and 00:56:58.380 --> 00:56:59.639 truth. And then another thing that I would tell 00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:03.340 people is read. For me, I don't know if you can 00:57:03.340 --> 00:57:06.159 see on there or not, there's a bookshelf in my 00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:08.960 office here and so you gotta read. There's so 00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:11.219 much knowledge and wisdom and experience out 00:57:11.219 --> 00:57:13.019 there that you don't have to learn on your own 00:57:13.019 --> 00:57:15.920 that you can take from other people. Now me personally, 00:57:16.119 --> 00:57:19.260 I like to actually read. I'm older. When I listen 00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:22.440 to an audiobook, it's playing and I start thinking 00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:25.019 about something else and then 20 minutes go by 00:57:25.019 --> 00:57:27.429 and I go, oh wait, I haven't... I haven't been 00:57:27.429 --> 00:57:29.750 paying attention and so, or I've got to listen 00:57:29.750 --> 00:57:32.090 to the audiobook in many, many different sections. 00:57:32.349 --> 00:57:34.429 I just don't, it doesn't work good for me. I 00:57:34.429 --> 00:57:36.630 don't care. If it does work good for you, then 00:57:36.630 --> 00:57:38.789 do it. So whether

you actually read a physical 00:57:38.789 --> 00:57:42.139 book, you have an audio book. You have an AI 00:57:42.139 --> 00:57:45.420 program summarize the book and put it into notes 00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:47.260 or what, I don't care what it is, but I would 00:57:47.260 --> 00:57:49.860 highly encourage people to read. And I would 00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:52.760 say for the most part, I mean, shoot right here 00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:55.539 next to me is Chuck Tokey's complete field guide 00:57:55.539 --> 00:57:57.800 to successful sales leadership. So, you know, 00:57:57.880 --> 00:57:59.800 I teach on these things and I'm still sitting 00:57:59.800 --> 00:58:02.800 here reading. And so generally speaking, I would 00:58:02.800 --> 00:58:05.389 say read from outside of the industry. You know, 00:58:05.429 --> 00:58:08.429 read things on leadership, read things on sales, 00:58:08.690 --> 00:58:10.969 read things on systems and processes. There's 00:58:10.969 --> 00:58:13.650 a book called Blink that I absolutely love. Simon 00:58:13.650 --> 00:58:16.409 Sinek, his books start with Y particularly, but 00:58:16.409 --> 00:58:18.829 also, you know, Leaders Eat Last and a host of 00:58:18.829 --> 00:58:20.929 other ones have been really instrumental for 00:58:20.929 --> 00:58:23.550 me. So yeah, I think those are, that's kind of 00:58:23.550 --> 00:58:26.710 my generalized advice to the younger generation 00:58:26.710 --> 00:58:28.949 or the guys that are new in the industry. There's 00:58:28.949 --> 00:58:31.750 a wealth of information out there that you have 00:58:31.750 --> 00:58:34.440 access to and I would take advantage of it. My 00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:37.239 last question to you is that before starting 00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:39.579 this recording, you were talking about creating 00:58:39.579 --> 00:58:43.380 an impact and living a legacy and like living 00:58:43.380 --> 00:58:47.079 an impact to this world. So right now, at the 00:58:47.079 --> 00:58:49.639 stage of the life where you are at, what kind 00:58:49.639 --> 00:58:52.320 of impact do you want to live in this world? 00:58:52.500 --> 00:58:54.840 That's a, that's a heavy question. I don't have 00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:57.619 a master plan. I don't think things work in the 00:58:57.619 --> 00:58:59.559 world of business and really the world of life 00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:03.460 timing and, and kind of luck are probably more. 00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:07.119 significant than plans and strategy and execution. 00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:10.579 And so when I look at things, I like to kind 00:59:10.579 --> 00:59:13.139 of forecast out, vision a number of different 00:59:13.139 --> 00:59:16.440 situations or really, I shouldn't say that. I 00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:18.659 vision an outcome and I realize that there's 00:59:18.659 --> 00:59:21.239 probably many paths to that outcome and if I 00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:23.860 choose one path and one thing doesn't go right, 00:59:23.900 --> 00:59:28.059 I'm cooked.

And so I focus on the general direction 00:59:28.059 --> 00:59:30.500 of working that way, knowing that I might break 00:59:30.500 --> 00:59:32.940 off in many different paths and looking back, 00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:34.699 the actual path that it took to get there might 00:59:34.699 --> 00:59:37.059 be very different than what I expected it to. 00:59:37.340 --> 00:59:39.900 And so I can tell you that I feel like John and 00:59:39.900 --> 00:59:43.639 I have had a small, but statistically relevant, 00:59:44.019 --> 00:59:46.579 measurable impact on the roofing industry. And 00:59:46.579 --> 00:59:50.460 that is my initial goal is to change this industry. 00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:53.079 Now how, to what degree and what percentage, 00:59:53.079 --> 00:59:56.250 I don't know. But to have a real impact on the 00:59:56.250 --> 00:59:58.590 industry and shift at least part of the industry's 00:59:58.590 --> 01:00:01.429 mindset towards things like objective truth, 01:00:01.809 --> 01:00:04.590 towards customer service, towards it all. Everything 01:00:04.590 --> 01:00:07.110 comes back to service first and truth second. 01:00:07.289 --> 01:00:10.309 And if I can get a chunk of the industry leading 01:00:10.309 --> 01:00:12.869 that way, thinking that way, then I'll have, 01:00:12.909 --> 01:00:17.250 I'll feel successful in my career. And then I 01:00:17.250 --> 01:00:19.630 can see a day where I exit the roofing industry 01:00:19.630 --> 01:00:21.949 and it's the same thing, but to the broader. 01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:26.880 you know, public. I've got some thoughts on where 01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:29.800 things might go or where that reach might be, 01:00:29.860 --> 01:00:32.079 but I think that the core message is the same. 01:00:32.340 --> 01:00:35.159 It's service, right? Most humans who are truly 01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:37.510 happy... are people that serve other people. 01:00:37.610 --> 01:00:39.690 It's littered through the Bible. It's littered 01:00:39.690 --> 01:00:42.130 through most, you know, holy books and religious 01:00:42.130 --> 01:00:44.050 teachings. That's where true happiness really 01:00:44.050 --> 01:00:46.889 comes from. And then that's, I think, number 01:00:46.889 --> 01:00:49.389 one. And then number two is truth. Our society 01:00:49.389 --> 01:00:51.889 and our culture, truth has been eroded. Social 01:00:51.889 --> 01:00:53.710 media, you know, you can get on social media 01:00:53.710 --> 01:00:57.110 and craft a... You look one way and that's not 01:00:57.110 --> 01:00:59.650 really what reality is at all. And that's eroded. 01:00:59.789 --> 01:01:03.090 truth. And I think parts of our political spectrum 01:01:03.090 --> 01:01:05.550 and things that are happening there, there's 01:01:05.550 --> 01:01:07.090 an eroded, you know, this phrase of like, well, 01:01:07.210 --> 01:01:09.829 my truth. I'm like, there's no such thing, in 01:01:09.829 --> 01:01:12.070 my opinion, there's no such thing as my truth. 01:01:12.110 --> 01:01:14.369 There is the truth. And then there might be my 01:01:14.369 --> 01:01:16.170 opinion or your opinion, but there's still the 01:01:16.170 --> 01:01:19.409 truth. With AI, I see a video right now and I 01:01:19.409 --> 01:01:22.369 have no confidence whether that's real or AI 01:01:22.369 --> 01:01:25.610 generated. I have no clue. And so truth is becoming 01:01:25.610 --> 01:01:29.530 scarce. It's kind of under attack. And so I think 01:01:29.530 --> 01:01:32.489 that if I'm on my deathbed looking back, if I'm 01:01:32.489 --> 01:01:34.570 happy with what I've done and I'm happy with 01:01:34.570 --> 01:01:38.170 my legacy, I will have brought a larger attention 01:01:38.170 --> 01:01:42.510 and focus and desire for service and truth to 01:01:42.510 --> 01:01:44.300 allow. number of people. I think that's what 01:01:44.300 --> 01:01:48.099 I would view as success. Thank you so much for 01:01:48.099 --> 01:01:50.000 your time, Chris. And maybe next time we sit 01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:52.920 down, we'll talk about secrets of happiness and 01:01:52.920 --> 01:01:56.340 how you can live a purpose -led life. But I really 01:01:56.340 --> 01:01:59.059 appreciate you giving your time to this podcast 01:01:59.059 --> 01:02:01.860 today. And I pray for you and all the businesses 01:02:01.860 --> 01:02:03.780 that you are doing and all the people that you 01:02:03.780 --> 01:02:06.480 are helping keep doing that. And my best wishes 01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:08.980 are with you. Thank you for your time. Once again, 01:02:09.059 --> 01:02:10.480 have a great day. Thanks for having me.