บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ 055: Mistakes, Grace, Boundaries: A Conversation with Rabbi Hannah Jensen

mistakes. And I think that's the thing that really caught me from the beginning. 00:08:34.504 --> 00:08:38.064 There's even the verse 7, I think. It says. 00:08:42.828 --> 00:08:49.094 So don't worry or don't remember my youthful sins. 00:08:49.094 --> 00:08:53.284 So I think it doesn't—mistake isn't really a word that would have been used 00:08:53.284 --> 00:08:58.964 in that way, but I think sin or falling short or these things show up in these 00:08:58.964 --> 00:09:03.416 ways, and then there's this focus in the psalm on, 00:09:04.074 --> 00:09:09.294 having God show you God's ways and kind of get you back on track in some way. 00:09:09.344 --> 00:09:16.394 And there's an early verse about God not being disappointed or being embarrassed 00:09:16.394 --> 00:09:17.699 even in the second verse—. 00:09:18.666 --> 00:09:23.873 And so I think that that does really come out from the song, 00:09:23.873 --> 00:09:28.012 but it was interesting because I listened to the song before I went back to the song. 00:09:28.337 --> 00:09:32.733 And so I was piecing it together almost backward. I saw where you had gone and 00:09:32.733 --> 00:09:34.283 then I was seeing where it came from, 00:09:34.863 --> 00:09:38.183 which was a really fascinating way to do it, I think, because then I thought, 00:09:38.183 --> 00:09:43.493 oh, wow, what you saw in it or what inspiration you took from it may have been 00:09:43.493 --> 00:09:45.464 very different from what someone else would have seen in it. 00:09:45.778 --> 00:09:52.213 But I think that that focus to me was such an accessible one and such an emotional 00:09:52.213 --> 00:09:56.293 one in some ways, because I think you are more familiar with the Psalms than 00:09:56.293 --> 00:09:57.968 most people at this point, probably. 00:09:58.537 --> 00:10:02.753 But I think one of the things about the Psalms is that they can feel so esoteric 00:10:02.753 --> 00:10:04.888 in some ways and so inaccessible. 00:10:05.306 --> 00:10:09.583 And I know a lot of people who just don't even try to read the Psalms because 00:10:09.583 --> 00:10:13.723 they feel like, what am I going to get out of this strange psalm? 00:10:14.356 --> 00:10:19.993 And I think it's really a gift to put them into language that people can actually 00:10:19.993 --> 00:10:21.687 hear and that resonate with people. 00:10:22.007 --> 00:10:27.043 And so for me, the choice or the inspiration or however you want to understand 00:10:27.043 --> 00:10:34.213 it to focus on my mistakes and hoping that there weren't that many of them or 00:10:34.213 --> 00:10:35.663 hoping that they weren't that big, 00:10:36.280 --> 00:10:38.503 to me was such a powerful message. 00:10:38.741 --> 00:10:43.626 Well, so like for me, first of all, when Sherry Hirsch was here, do you know Sherry? 00:10:44.259 --> 00:10:48.923 She's like, I can't stand the Psalms. So that was like her first obstacle. 00:10:48.923 --> 00:10:54.583 And we had a whole conversation about how the Psalms can be

accessible if you're 00:10:54.583 --> 00:10:59.463 willing to kind of dive into this language. 00:11:01.727 --> 00:11:07.643 That is not easy to read. It is accessible for many of the themes, 00:11:07.643 --> 00:11:10.806 you know, I guess for people who don't believe in God, 00:11:11.590 --> 00:11:15.109 It's probably, that's a barrier that's hard to get through. 00:11:15.109 --> 00:11:22.499 But all the themes, you know, the psalmist's pain, the psalmist's fear, the psalmist's joy. 00:11:22.499 --> 00:11:26.029 I mean, it all comes up. These are things we can connect to. 00:11:26.029 --> 00:11:29.569 And ultimately, that's what I'm seeking to do with this project, 00:11:29.569 --> 00:11:31.100 find ways of connecting. 00:11:31.576 --> 00:11:36.864 And, you know, for me, like every time I sit down with one of these, 00:11:37.595 --> 00:11:42.769 I could probably write 150 songs for each psalm, you know? 00:11:42.769 --> 00:11:50.909 So for this one, Psalm 25, this is the second time I'm discussing a song based on Psalm 25. 00:11:50.909 --> 00:11:55.559 The other one was a song that I wrote with my friend Ray Allen Kyanik, 00:11:55.988 --> 00:11:58.786 and my discussion partner was Rabbi Browse. 00:11:59.899 --> 00:12:04.069 Wow. So you guys have that connection. That is so fascinating. 00:12:04.069 --> 00:12:06.139 This is like the Ikar Psalm. 00:12:07.790 --> 00:12:12.450 Well, you have to interview all of them and see what the other ones choose because 00:12:12.450 --> 00:12:15.673 there aren't any other 25 left. That's so interesting. 00:12:15.986 --> 00:12:22.800 But I'm trying as much as I can to come up with new songs so that I hit all 00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:26.200 150. I forget to put things on the list, so I don't know where I am. 00:12:27.816 --> 00:12:32.693 But that's a good example. I mean, forgetfulness is a form of a mistake. 00:12:33.465 --> 00:12:41.209 And I moved to mistake rather than sin because I can't handle the idea of sin, capital S. 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:47.690 And I don't know that a sin, like, hate is not necessarily sin. 00:12:47.690 --> 00:12:49.400 It's just how we translate it. 00:12:50.175 --> 00:12:53.640 And I suspect if you look, you know, what's the source of a sin? 00:12:53.640 --> 00:12:57.610 Well, you know, you were supposed to do X, you didn't do X, or you did Y when 00:12:57.610 --> 00:12:58.918 you're not supposed to do Y. 00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:05.254 Why is that different than a mistake? I mean, to the extent it's bemazed, 00:13:05.568 --> 00:13:08.104 intentional, thank you, 00:13:08.640 --> 00:13:11.870 maybe that's not a mistake, although if you have regret afterwards, 00:13:11.870 --> 00:13:14.995 then the intention was the mistake. 00:13:16.227 --> 00:13:22.360 And so I think that that comes up every day in every way in every relationship. 00:13:23.160 --> 00:13:26.670 And I often try to write these so that they operate on multiple levels. 00:13:26.670 --> 00:13:29.710 You know, Guide Me Back to

You could be a conversation with God. 00:13:29.710 --> 00:13:32.540 I think that that's language from the Tehillim, the psalm. 00:13:33.300 --> 00:13:38.470 But it could also be, okay, Shari and I have had a fight. My kids and I have 00:13:38.470 --> 00:13:40.720 had a fight. How do we come back together? 00:13:41.837 --> 00:13:46.750 In fact, when, you know, there was a period where Maya was struggling with some 00:13:46.750 --> 00:13:50.610 mental health issues, and we just didn't know how to connect with her. 00:13:50.610 --> 00:13:52.483 We didn't know how to talk to her. 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:56.790 So this notion of guide me back to you, she gave us specific language, 00:13:56.790 --> 00:13:58.758 don't say this, say that. 00:13:59.461 --> 00:14:06.189 And the power of being able to do that, to stay connected even in tension, 00:14:06.909 --> 00:14:14.248 That's, I mean, what a gift that is for a then 16, 17-year-old with her therapist's 00:14:14.248 --> 00:14:16.005 help to be able to say to us, 00:14:16.938 --> 00:14:23.451 I can't handle when you say it this way, but I can hear the same thing if you say it this other way. 00:14:24.548 --> 00:14:29.918 You know, the presuming the best intentions of people, or at least giving them 00:14:29.918 --> 00:14:35.281 some benefit of the doubt, I think is happening less and less in the world. 00:14:35.850 --> 00:14:41.368 And I think that it's very easy to jump to conclusions, often to bad conclusions 00:14:41.368 --> 00:14:43.228 about people or things in the world. 00:14:43.228 --> 00:14:46.808 And I think in this moment, especially when it feels like the world is getting 00:14:46.808 --> 00:14:50.554 more and more polarized, more and more radicalized in certain ways, 00:14:50.874 --> 00:14:55.708 that it feels like there are groups, there are teams. And either you're on my 00:14:55.708 --> 00:14:57.265 team or you're against me. 00:14:57.683 --> 00:15:02.178 And there's no nuance in that conversation. And there's no space to actually 00:15:02.178 --> 00:15:03.592 have a conversation because, 00:15:04.103 --> 00:15:08.558 you've already written that person off because of something you heard or saw 00:15:08.558 --> 00:15:13.558 or someone else told you about what that person thought or said or felt that 00:15:13.558 --> 00:15:16.861 doesn't actually leave space to be in any kind of relationship with people. 00:15:17.180 --> 00:15:21.028 Which is not to say that we're all going to get along and see the world the 00:15:21.028 --> 00:15:24.168 same way and which is not to say that there are people who don't deserve the 00:15:24.168 --> 00:15:27.264 benefit of the doubt and who don't deserve that kind of grace 00:15:27.589 --> 00:15:34.276 but i think we cut people off so quickly from that yeah and i think especially when we're hurt, 00:15:34.938 --> 00:15:39.678 we are much less able to extend any kind of compassion or grace or benefit of 00:15:39.678 --> 00:15:40.731 the doubt to other people. 00:15:41.190 --> 00:15:47.858 And I think that this kind of interpretation of the psalm, I think. 00:15:48.730 --> 00:15:54.371 Is this vulnerable ask in some ways that someone is making of someone else, 00:15:54.371 --> 00:15:57.211 which is give me the benefit of the doubt. Right. 00:15:57.631 --> 00:16:03.226 See me as a flawed person just like all of us, but understand that I'm learning and I'm growing. Yeah. 00:16:03.951 --> 00:16:06.540 And as opposed to, you're right, 00:16:07.034 --> 00:16:10.557 I'm a terrible person and everything that I've ever said or done is bad. 00:16:10.917 --> 00:16:16.091 But I think we do that to ourselves and also more and more in the world we see 00:16:16.091 --> 00:16:17.174 people doing that to each other. 00:16:17.708 --> 00:16:23.625 And I think that this is an invitation into a kind of more nuanced space and more, 00:16:24.312 --> 00:16:30.378 complex understanding of what it means to be in relationship and that it's always 00:16:30.378 --> 00:16:33.468 going to involve mistakes and falling short. 00:16:34.088 --> 00:16:38.548 Yeah. Look, there's so much richness in what you just said. Randomly, 00:16:38.548 --> 00:16:41.152 I'm going to pick this one because it's the first one that came to mind. 00:16:41.756 --> 00:16:47.938 In preparing for our conversation, I went back and I pulled up my old songwriting notes. 00:16:47.938 --> 00:16:53.298 I'm Very process-oriented. You know, some people, you know, they have this gift 00:16:53.298 --> 00:16:54.988 of nevoie, of prophecies. 00:16:54.988 --> 00:16:59.988 Like, they open their minds, words come out. And every once in a while, 00:16:59.988 --> 00:17:05.364 like, I will find that. Like, my first draft is pretty close to my final draft. 00:17:05.649 --> 00:17:10.548 This was not one of them. This was very process-oriented. It was I read the 00:17:10.548 --> 00:17:16.208 psalm, I pulled out the language that moved me, And I then did a whole bunch 00:17:16.208 --> 00:17:20.208 of journaling in kind of lyric poetry format. 00:17:20.585 --> 00:17:28.521 And one of the lines that I wrote was, complexity and nuance are not acceptable in this country. 00:17:30.808 --> 00:17:36.788 We're like kids in that way. And I think that that's what, where the lyric... 00:17:37.248 --> 00:17:41.588 Teenage blunders comes from. Yeah, I'm kind of a kid. Yeah, yeah. 00:17:41.588 --> 00:17:43.823 And I think that we resort back to that. 00:17:43.979 --> 00:17:49.098 You said, you mentioned hurt, but fear and anger. Yeah. And either of those 00:17:49.098 --> 00:17:50.457 can be connected to hurt. 00:17:50.846 --> 00:17:55.647 But fear and anger are strong prompters. And this moment... 00:17:56.472 --> 00:18:04.975 The extreme right and the extreme left are pushing agendas that make their polar 00:18:04.975 --> 00:18:10.594 opposites and everyone in between very afraid and very angry. 00:18:11.133 --> 00:18:15.535 So that cuts off the conversation right there. And the same is true

about Israel, 00:18:15.535 --> 00:18:20.025 especially now, you know, we're having this conversation on day 187. 00:18:20.025 --> 00:18:21.031 Am I getting that right? Yeah. 00:18:21.344 --> 00:18:25.881 Day 187 that the hostages have been in Gaza, that the war has been going on. 00:18:26.305 --> 00:18:30.119 And not everybody has the same views on this, you know. 00:18:30.363 --> 00:18:36.499 And our rabbi has a very nuanced view. 00:18:36.702 --> 00:18:44.173 And people only hear one part of it or the other, and she gets crap from both sides for that reason. 00:18:45.050 --> 00:18:54.976 You know, I think anyone who studies Gemara, the Talmud, and anyone who has done a lot of, 00:18:55.557 --> 00:18:59.755 legal research, and this is probably true in other fields as well, 00:18:59.755 --> 00:19:03.737 but I'm focusing on those because those are my areas of experience. 00:19:05.665 --> 00:19:15.965 You learn how to look at something from different angles and to allow for alternative 00:19:15.965 --> 00:19:18.635 perspectives, even if you disagree with them. 00:19:18.635 --> 00:19:21.025 And that's something that we've lost. 00:19:21.625 --> 00:19:29.274 Oh, absolutely. I think part of it, too, is we've conflated discomfort with being unsafe. 00:19:30.525 --> 00:19:35.885 And so I think that—and Rabbi Braus, who you've mentioned also in her recent 00:19:35.885 --> 00:19:38.695 book that came out, The Amen Effect, she kind of speaks to this. But, 00:19:39.910 --> 00:19:43.899 We've labeled anyone who disagrees with us or not anyone, but most people who 00:19:43.899 --> 00:19:48.566 disagree with us as being an unsafe environment for us to enter into conversation 00:19:48.832 --> 00:19:53.049 as opposed to as you're saying, okay, I'm creating the space for conversation 00:19:53.049 --> 00:19:54.620 with people who I may not agree with. 00:19:55.009 --> 00:19:59.056 And some of that might make me uncomfortable and I'm going to be okay. 00:20:00.099 --> 00:20:04.839 That discomfort doesn't threaten me physically or mentally or emotionally. 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:09.699 But that it just isn't what I would choose for myself or not the way that I see the world. 00:20:09.699 --> 00:20:14.297 But that we've lost the ability to sit in that discomfort because, 00:20:14.785 --> 00:20:19.179 of real threats, I think, that exist in the world and not being able to tell 00:20:19.179 --> 00:20:25.066 necessarily where am I actually safe and just uncomfortable and where am I unsafe. 00:20:25.639 --> 00:20:27.199 I love that distinction. I think 00:20:27.199 --> 00:20:31.719 it's really powerful. I actually want to take it farther in two ways. 00:20:32.641 --> 00:20:40.883 One, I would say that it is incumbent upon us when in any productive discomfort 00:20:41.139 --> 00:20:43.519 to lead with curiosity, right? 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:48.419 Because if we lead with curiosity, then the fear goes away, right? 00:20:48.419 --> 00:20:51.919 It's, if you will, it's opposite action. Another more language we learned, 00:20:51.919 --> 00:20:53.555 I learned from Maya, right? 00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:57.834 You want to step away? Lean in and be curious. 00:20:58.426 --> 00:21:08.746 So that's one thing. And the other thing that your words struck in me are that I think—. 00:21:09.800 --> 00:21:15.475 Social media, there's tremendous value in it. You know, I have a gig coming 00:21:15.475 --> 00:21:18.037 up in a week. I posted it on social media. 00:21:18.270 --> 00:21:21.578 So there's lots of positivity that comes up in that. 00:21:22.374 --> 00:21:26.542 But because of, I think it's called the meaningful algorithm, 00:21:27.412 --> 00:21:34.515 we end up being directed to the posts that the algorithm says are meaningful 00:21:34.515 --> 00:21:41.768 to us, rather than a curiosity algorithm, which says, here's a different perspective. 00:21:42.875 --> 00:21:46.764 And I think that it's only gotten worse. 00:21:47.333 --> 00:21:54.131 And it goes back to, I forget the name of the case, but there's a milestone, 00:21:54.659 --> 00:21:58.634 decision that was made, or a milestone legislation that, 00:21:59.522 --> 00:22:02.635 created TV and cable as we know it, 00:22:03.255 --> 00:22:05.555 the losing of the FinCEN rules, 00:22:06.633 --> 00:22:13.915 the lack of a requirement of balance, all of that just paved the way for the 00:22:13.915 --> 00:22:18.237 much more extreme version on social media. And I think, 00:22:19.204 --> 00:22:23.503 People tend to, like, I don't think that there's Kavanaugh here. 00:22:23.503 --> 00:22:25.926 I don't think that there's Maiset. It's not intentional. 00:22:26.617 --> 00:22:30.873 I think people just kind of habituate to what's in front of them. 00:22:30.873 --> 00:22:33.583 You know, if there are French fries in the fridge, you're going to eat French fries. 00:22:33.883 --> 00:22:37.987 You know, if there's salad, you're going to eat salad, at least some of the time. 00:22:38.643 --> 00:22:43.153 I don't know that this is a realistic recipe, but if the world were up to me, 00:22:43.757 --> 00:22:50.113 for every post you read that was extreme left-wing, you'd also get one that's 00:22:50.113 --> 00:22:55.573 center and extreme right, just so you understand the issue from three perspectives, 00:22:55.573 --> 00:22:57.391 or five or ten, whatever it is. 00:22:58.251 --> 00:23:00.538 And I think that's how you become educated. 00:23:01.523 --> 00:23:06.473 That's the brilliance of Chavrusa, right? Because Rezlakesh died, 00:23:06.473 --> 00:23:11.475 and Rabbi Yochanan, they were Chavrusas, they were study partners. 00:23:11.789 --> 00:23:18.513 So in his death, the yeshiva, the academy, brought him different chavrusas to 00:23:18.513 --> 00:23:21.818 learn with and console him in his time of grieving. 00:23:22.177 --> 00:23:25.463 And, you know, the first guy came along and Rabbi Yochanan would say, 00:23:25.783 --> 00:23:29.904 oh, well, this is the law. And the study partner

would say, you're right. 00:23:30.217 --> 00:23:34.304 And get me a new study partner. Bring another guy. Same thing would happen. You're right. 00:23:34.652 --> 00:23:39.703 And finally, Rabbi Yochanan articulates, for every argument I came up with, 00:23:39.703 --> 00:23:44.523 Reish Lakish would come up with 100 counterpoints because the whole point is 00:23:44.943 --> 00:23:46.623 refine each other's understanding. 00:23:46.623 --> 00:23:49.793 It's not about me being right or you being right, but together we come to a 00:23:49.793 --> 00:23:50.838 greater understanding. 00:23:51.110 --> 00:23:56.236 And we could come up with different conclusions, but we've refined each other in the process. Yeah. 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:01.563 And, like, to me, that's ultimately what all these processes are about, 00:24:02.223 --> 00:24:06.813 whether in a marriage, you know, parents-child relationships, close friends. 00:24:08.071 --> 00:24:13.665 You have to be able to have uncomfortable conversations. Even lawyers who should 00:24:13.665 --> 00:24:19.983 know how to do it, they just go to the ugly place instead of engaging in healthy debate. 00:24:20.790 --> 00:24:27.799 Yeah. And I think we have both lost it in a more professional, 00:24:28.211 --> 00:24:33.227 more expansive, global way, and we've also lost it interpersonally. 00:24:33.831 --> 00:24:37.539 Because I think we're not practicing it as much. 00:24:37.823 --> 00:24:41.568 And so I think we are quicker to feel, 00:24:42.206 --> 00:24:46.645 unable to engage in hard conversations even with the people closest to us because 00:24:46.645 --> 00:24:51.185 I think we're seeing less modeling of that in the world and we're exposed to 00:24:51.185 --> 00:24:53.815 less of that ourselves because as you said, 00:24:54.401 --> 00:24:57.945 we're seeing kind of all the news that we're seeing or all the updates we're 00:24:57.945 --> 00:25:02.406 seeing are confirmation of what we already believe or have seen or know. 00:25:02.766 --> 00:25:08.645 And so we aren't expanding ourselves in those ways. And so then if your partner, 00:25:08.645 --> 00:25:12.940 child, sibling, close friend sees something differently from you, 00:25:13.253 --> 00:25:14.431 it also feels like a threat. 00:25:15.325 --> 00:25:19.587 We've really lost the ability even in those relationships to maintain, 00:25:20.250 --> 00:25:24.632 as you said earlier, maintain connection in that kind of tension. 00:25:25.056 --> 00:25:29.055 There's also someone close to me is going through this. I'm not going to name 00:25:29.055 --> 00:25:30.365 them because I don't want to make... 00:25:31.368 --> 00:25:39.120 The subject of this uncomfortable. But I'm the type of person who appreciates 00:25:39.120 --> 00:25:46.293 it when people share articles, whatever, just like, I'll read it or a podcast. 00:25:46.548 --> 00:25:51.000 You know, if my friend or family member was moved by something, 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.110 I want to understand that because it connects me to them. 00:25:53.790 --> 00:25:58.730 You know, even if I ultimately disagree with it, that's an opportunity for conversation. 00:25:59.690 --> 00:26:06.111 But this other person in my life has been sending articles to friends and getting 00:26:06.546 --> 00:26:08.903 radio silence in response. 00:26:09.745 --> 00:26:15.260 And they talk to several of the people that they've been sending articles to. 00:26:15.260 --> 00:26:17.628 And, you know, one's like, I'm too busy. 00:26:18.630 --> 00:26:21.639 One's like, I don't agree with you. 00:26:22.783 --> 00:26:26.610 And one's like, deeply threatened by the articles. 00:26:28.187 --> 00:26:35.150 And because this person was willing to raise the issue, they sourced all of those answers. 00:26:36.199 --> 00:26:40.170 But the people that were receiving the articles did not feel strong, 00:26:40.170 --> 00:26:42.757 healthy, secure enough to come back and say, 00:26:43.891 --> 00:26:48.252 Please don't send them to me. Or please do send them to me. Just know that, 00:26:48.252 --> 00:26:50.798 you know, they're a little bit threatening. 00:26:51.205 --> 00:26:53.068 Right? Like, just whatever it is. 00:26:53.620 --> 00:27:01.902 And I think that that's just a malady right now. We've lost the art of being 00:27:01.902 --> 00:27:04.042 able to simply just talk to each other. 00:27:04.502 --> 00:27:08.642 You know, look, my parents, they fought with a lot of people. 00:27:09.262 --> 00:27:11.977 Mostly family members. Some customers, too. 00:27:12.651 --> 00:27:21.805 And even though my dad did it inartfully, he always raised the issue because 00:27:22.037 --> 00:27:26.008 maintaining the connection was most important. That was the dominant value. 00:27:26.257 --> 00:27:29.648 He would write letters. He would confront people angrily. 00:27:30.540 --> 00:27:35.652 He'd also like have gentle conversations. Like I got those. I think I got more 00:27:35.652 --> 00:27:37.824 of those than my brother. My brother got more anger. 00:27:38.770 --> 00:27:43.562 So you were talking about modeling. Like, it starts right here, 00:27:43.562 --> 00:27:49.522 right at home. And I think that, you know, some of the challenge may be that 00:27:49.522 --> 00:27:53.202 we live in these massive communities. 00:27:53.662 --> 00:27:59.902 You know, Icar is a massive community, right? More and more by the day, it feels like so. 00:28:00.702 --> 00:28:05.242 So even, like, we were just talking about this before we started, 00:28:05.702 --> 00:28:10.833 the Zoom minion for IKAR is 50 people. 00:28:11.327 --> 00:28:15.506 And it's a rotating 50 people. It's not the same 50 people every day. 00:28:15.646 --> 00:28:20.722 You see some of the same people every day, and when you're very intentional, 00:28:20.722 --> 00:28:23.492 you build relationships within that community. 00:28:23.492 --> 00:28:29.355 But that's a subset of a subset, you know, the Zoom Minion, IKAR, 00:28:29.849 --> 00:28:34.405 which is a

subset of the Jewish community in Los Angeles, a subset of the community in Los Angeles, 00:28:35.595 --> 00:28:39.312 It's hard to stay on top of all these relationships. 00:28:39.312 --> 00:28:42.882 You have to have kavana and keva. 00:28:42.882 --> 00:28:47.559 You have to have intention and a routine where you stay connected and. 00:28:49.002 --> 00:28:56.482 In play, in curiosity with other people, where you together choose a measure 00:28:56.482 --> 00:29:03.022 of unsafety with a goal of productive discomfort and perhaps learning. 00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:07.142 I think also, I really hear what you're saying. 00:29:07.142 --> 00:29:12.363 I think some of it is that we are now able, because of technology, 00:29:12.944 --> 00:29:19.142 to be connected to so many people that we don't have the capacity or the ability 00:29:19.142 --> 00:29:21.884 to build deep relationships in the same ways. 00:29:22.313 --> 00:29:26.822 Because we really all should live in a community of 100 people, 00:29:27.382 --> 00:29:32.413 maybe 150 people. And I know everything about those people. They know everything about me. 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:34.677 We raise our kids together. We... 00:29:35.373 --> 00:29:39.096 Go through our life cycle events together. We cry with each other. 00:29:39.096 --> 00:29:40.214 We laugh with each other. 00:29:40.498 --> 00:29:44.886 And you can't do that on the scale of 8 billion people in the world. 00:29:45.467 --> 00:29:49.206 But that's sort of where we are. That's sort of what's being asked of us. 00:29:49.206 --> 00:29:53.893 And so, of course, we don't know how to be safe with each other anymore because 00:29:54.143 --> 00:29:58.726 we're now exposed to so many people who are now, quote unquote, 00:29:58.726 --> 00:30:00.116 part of our communities. 00:30:00.557 --> 00:30:06.606 But we don't know those people. And as you mentioned, even in our community where I'm a rabbi, 00:30:07.273 --> 00:30:12.096 there are people who come up to me all the time who know things about me or 00:30:12.096 --> 00:30:16.527 the sermon I gave or this event that's happening. I've never seen them in my life. 00:30:17.125 --> 00:30:20.796 And that's just, as you said, in a community that's sort of fixed, 00:30:20.796 --> 00:30:23.696 that's fairly small in the scheme of things in the world. 00:30:24.056 --> 00:30:30.286 But already we aren't able to maintain the same kind of depth of relationships, 00:30:30.286 --> 00:30:34.436 even in that community, because as it's gotten bigger, there are only so many 00:30:34.436 --> 00:30:37.023 of us and so many people in the community. 00:30:37.452 --> 00:30:40.715 And even as you said with this morning, Minion, this Zoom community, 00:30:41.127 --> 00:30:43.926 there are the people you know day in and day out. Then there are the people 00:30:43.926 --> 00:30:48.099 whose mom died last week who just started coming and no one's seen them before. 00:30:48.424 --> 00:30:51.486 Or someone who comes once and never again. Are we accountable to them? 00:30:52.203 --> 00:30:56.655 Are we feel safe to be in community with them or in conversation with them. 00:30:57.015 --> 00:31:00.005 And there's a beauty in the expansiveness of that. 00:31:00.324 --> 00:31:05.531 And I also think that we lose something because we're pulled so many directions. 00:31:05.833 --> 00:31:10.696 And I think it's part of why we struggle on a global scale with everything that's 00:31:10.696 --> 00:31:13.530 happening in the world, because we can't actually, 00:31:14.040 --> 00:31:20.229 psychologically as or as human beings maintain the same kinds of empathy and 00:31:20.229 --> 00:31:25.795 connection and compassion for every single crisis and conflict and, 00:31:26.294 --> 00:31:30.148 problem in the world because we weren't built that way we were built to carry 00:31:30.421 --> 00:31:35.076 the emotional weight of the 150 people around us but not the 8 billion people in the world 00:31:35.500 --> 00:31:40.968 and so of course everyone is exhausted depleted depressed 00:31:41.334 --> 00:31:45.099 really struggling to engage in the world because everywhere you look, 00:31:45.099 --> 00:31:50.519 you're being attacked by all sorts of new information about this crisis or that crisis. 00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:53.749 And this is the most important thing. And this is the most important thing. 00:31:53.749 --> 00:31:54.923 And this is the most important thing. 00:31:55.225 --> 00:31:58.267 And you're just maybe trying to get through the day. 00:31:58.505 --> 00:32:02.199 You're just trying to get your kids to school and pick them up and feed them 00:32:02.199 --> 00:32:07.939 and get yourself to work and shower and maybe exercise and eat something. 00:32:07.939 --> 00:32:12.169 And you already or just trying to manage your own small life and maybe a few 00:32:12.169 --> 00:32:16.279 friends and family around you, and then also you're supposed to know every detail 00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:20.459 of every crisis happening in the world, and that's supposed to be top of mind for you forever. 00:32:21.659 --> 00:32:26.039 Of course we aren't able to maintain that, and also I think it means we don't 00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:29.468 have as much space for deep relationships in the way that we did before. 00:32:29.741 --> 00:32:33.909 It reminds me, what you're saying reminds me a lot of the way the Rambam, 00:32:33.909 --> 00:32:37.612 Maimonides, a 12th century scholar talks about how you give charity. 00:32:38.013 --> 00:32:43.369 You know, first you give to your closest inner circle. I don't remember if he 00:32:43.369 --> 00:32:48.015 says family or your geographic location, but it's your closest inner circle. 00:32:48.317 --> 00:32:51.869 And then, you know, if you have money left over, you go to the circle around 00:32:51.869 --> 00:32:54.209 that, and then the circle around that, and the circle around that, 00:32:54.209 --> 00:32:59.276 and, you know, so we go from eight billion to the

hundred or hundred and twenty. 00:33:01.015 --> 00:33:06.212 And that's true of friendships, too. You know, like, we, Shari and I, 00:33:06.212 --> 00:33:09.744 and I know this is true of you as well, we're blessed with a lot of friends. 00:33:10.570 --> 00:33:14.002 You know, but then there are those who are our closest, closest friends. 00:33:14.002 --> 00:33:18.892 You know, the people with whom, without whom you would have trouble functioning. 00:33:18.892 --> 00:33:20.577 The people you rely on most. 00:33:21.198 --> 00:33:25.632 And that's true even though there's this other layer of people to whom you feel 00:33:25.632 --> 00:33:28.098 very close and who feel very close to you. 00:33:28.696 --> 00:33:32.789 Who will show up when you ask them to or whom you show up for. 00:33:33.590 --> 00:33:37.601 But there's only so much time. There's only so much emotional bandwidth. 00:33:38.008 --> 00:33:44.142 And the more under attack we feel outside, this is true for me. 00:33:44.502 --> 00:33:47.876 I'm one of those introvert extroverts. 00:33:48.311 --> 00:33:52.672 The more under attack I feel outside, the more I have to huddle and just be 00:33:52.672 --> 00:33:56.842 in my safe space, which is this room, or anywhere else in the house, 00:33:56.842 --> 00:33:58.161 but particularly this room. 00:33:58.881 --> 00:34:03.902 But I also, b'chavana, with intention, have to push myself to, 00:34:04.245 --> 00:34:09.242 you know, Rabbi Browse, Sharon, talks about just showing up. 00:34:09.662 --> 00:34:16.679 You know, since reading her book, Shari and I have been trying as much as we can to just show up. 00:34:17.522 --> 00:34:25.123 It's such a simple but powerful concept. And the way she talks about it is very 00:34:25.123 --> 00:34:27.076 moving, very inspiring. 00:34:27.824 --> 00:34:34.573 You know, we were at a shiva with her the other night, and there were 100 people, 00:34:35.473 --> 00:34:37.728 you know, just showing up for this family. 00:34:39.633 --> 00:34:47.423 They're our neighbors. I don't know the mom who passed, but what a legacy, what a life, you know? 00:34:47.423 --> 00:34:54.417 And had I not shown up, I neither would have felt like I did right by my neighbor, 00:34:54.858 --> 00:34:57.708 nor would I have heard about this incredible life. 00:34:58.103 --> 00:35:02.883 So just showing up isn't only about the other person. There's a benefit to you, 00:35:02.883 --> 00:35:05.023 too. And that's sometimes hard to remember. 00:35:06.524 --> 00:35:09.896 So I want to actually talk about the friend thing for a minute, 00:35:10.007 --> 00:35:13.673 if you're okay with this. You're in a unique position. 00:35:15.073 --> 00:35:18.983 I get slices of it as a songwriter. Like when I'm performing, 00:35:18.983 --> 00:35:24.030 when I offer my songs to people, people feel like they know me. 00:35:24.518 --> 00:35:31.233 But as a rabbi, there are, I don't know, 2,500 members at IKAR? 00:35:31.233 --> 00:35:35.663 Probably, yeah. 1,200 families, but a family unit could be all sorts of things. 00:35:35.663 --> 00:35:41.463 So 3,000 people that you have some akhariah, some responsibility towards. 00:35:41.857 --> 00:35:46.174 And I'll bet you dollars to donut that everyone thinks you're their friend. 00:35:48.813 --> 00:35:54.221 How do you manage that? Because you have to do it in a way that the congregants 00:35:54.616 --> 00:35:56.653 feel respected and connected, 00:35:57.233 --> 00:36:01.703 while still also protecting yourself by not revealing information that you don't 00:36:01.703 --> 00:36:07.677 want to, by not sharing stuff that crosses a line in some way. 00:36:08.761 --> 00:36:11.326 So how do you manage that? It's a great question. 00:36:13.387 --> 00:36:17.879 Some days are easier than others. I think I'm a pretty private person. 00:36:18.220 --> 00:36:22.088 And so it's a strange life for me in some ways. And it's... 00:36:23.112 --> 00:36:26.758 I joke, but it's not really a joke. It's true. Before this year, 00:36:27.297 --> 00:36:31.988 I was only searchable on Google if you went to the fourth page of Google. 00:36:32.290 --> 00:36:34.369 I was nowhere to be found on Google. 00:36:35.266 --> 00:36:40.068 I had almost no internet history. I was just a specter in some ways. 00:36:40.464 --> 00:36:46.228 And now everything I've ever said in the last nine months is on the internet. 00:36:46.936 --> 00:36:51.336 Every sermon I've given, all of our Shabbat services are still on YouTube, 00:36:51.336 --> 00:36:54.866 everything I've said in a Shabbat service, every mistake I've made, 00:36:55.406 --> 00:37:00.694 everything I've said wrong, all of it is for posterity forever on the internet. 00:37:01.382 --> 00:37:04.506 And that's a very strange feeling, probably a strange feeling for anyone, 00:37:04.506 --> 00:37:08.429 but I think especially the contrast of the life I had before with this one. 00:37:09.021 --> 00:37:17.176 And so I think if anything, my struggle in some ways is sharing more as opposed 00:37:17.176 --> 00:37:21.346 to holding myself back from sharing, because I think my comfortable place is 00:37:21.346 --> 00:37:23.276 not sharing about myself. 00:37:23.276 --> 00:37:26.116 And I'll just give a couple examples. 00:37:26.534 --> 00:37:29.291 I was writing a sermon for Rosh Hashanah, and. 00:37:30.195 --> 00:37:34.619 I felt like I was in pretty good shape, and I brought it to Rabbi Browse, 00:37:35.499 --> 00:37:40.005 and I read it to her, and at the end she said, where are you in the sermon? 00:37:40.481 --> 00:37:45.159 And I said, well, it's not really about me, because I knew that there were two 00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:48.499 other sermons that were being given that were very personal to the rabbis who 00:37:48.499 --> 00:37:52.428 were giving them, and so I had purposely constructed this sermon that wasn't about me. 00:37:53.537 --> 00:37:57.079 And she said, I understand it's not about you. It's not all about you, 00:37:57.079 -->

00:37:58.959 but you need to bring yourself into it. 00:37:58.959 --> 00:38:02.429 It doesn't need to be pages about you, but say something personal. 00:38:02.429 --> 00:38:06.329 It doesn't need to be divulging secret information or things that you don't 00:38:06.329 --> 00:38:10.168 want shared, but you need to connect with people. And right now, 00:38:10.586 --> 00:38:11.892 there's no way in for people. 00:38:12.535 --> 00:38:15.679 And I was so frustrated because, 00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:20.099 I felt like oh no now I have to go back to the beginning and try to figure out 00:38:20.331 --> 00:38:24.939 how do I weave myself into this in a way that doesn't feel too like too much 00:38:24.939 --> 00:38:28.603 disclosure and also makes people allows people to connect with me 00:38:28.946 --> 00:38:33.805 and I think I was able to do that in the end but I had to be pushed to do that and so I think I'm. 00:38:35.213 --> 00:38:38.260 I almost err, I think, on the side of not sharing much of myself. 00:38:38.538 --> 00:38:42.759 And part of my work also in our community is I work with people in their 20s and 30s. 00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:47.533 And that's especially tricky because I am in that age group. 00:38:47.533 --> 00:38:53.323 And so I have worked very hard to create boundaries for myself around what does 00:38:53.323 --> 00:38:55.460 that look like? How do I show up in those spaces? 00:38:55.802 --> 00:38:59.613 What do I wear in those spaces? which I think as a woman is something I think 00:38:59.613 --> 00:39:02.931 about a lot in my professional life, but especially in that context. 00:39:03.673 --> 00:39:10.763 I only introduce myself as Rabbi Jensen in all of those work contexts. 00:39:10.763 --> 00:39:17.003 I think a lot of people knew me before I was a rabbi and feel like they are 00:39:17.003 --> 00:39:20.499 more comfortable and casual with me than I think I feel with them. 00:39:20.853 --> 00:39:24.343 And so that boundary has been really important for me. And I think people in 00:39:24.343 --> 00:39:29.693 the community have been really good on the whole about helping me step into 00:39:29.693 --> 00:39:35.092 that identity and helping me separate what is a workspace versus what is a personal space. 00:39:35.401 --> 00:39:39.773 And that helps me a lot, actually, because no one in my personal life calls me Rabbi Jensen. 00:39:40.433 --> 00:39:42.506 My friends do it as a joke because they know that. 00:39:43.372 --> 00:39:48.400 But at work, it's really important for me to differentiate those spaces. 00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:52.405 And so that helps me, I think, stay in the space that I'm in. 00:39:53.038 --> 00:39:56.320 And then the other example I'll give is actually from this Shabbat, 00:39:56.320 --> 00:40:01.165 I gave a sermon and I spoke a little bit about my childhood, 00:40:01.407 --> 00:40:03.380 but in a very distant way. 00:40:03.380 --> 00:40:07.780 I was really talking about living in a place with seasons and the rituals that 00:40:07.780 --> 00:40:11.704 were created in my family. And I mostly was talking about my mom and these rituals. 00:40:11.936 --> 00:40:16.087 And someone came up to me after the sermon and said, really beautiful sermon. 00:40:16.284 --> 00:40:20.673 I loved that you brought it back to yourself. It was so great that you shared about yourself. 00:40:21.092 --> 00:40:26.470 And so it was this strange moment where I felt like, did I share about myself? 00:40:26.470 --> 00:40:28.916 I don't really feel like I shared anything about myself. 00:40:29.277 --> 00:40:34.332 I don't feel like you and I now have some connection we didn't have an hour ago. 00:40:34.728 --> 00:40:45.310 I feel like I gave a sermon and I told a very vague and simple story from being a child. 00:40:45.310 --> 00:40:50.077 So some of it also is figuring out what's enough to give people, 00:40:50.553 --> 00:40:55.430 that's not dishonest, but that feels like some kind of connection point, 00:40:55.430 --> 00:40:59.560 some kind of humanity that also protects myself, protects my family, 00:40:59.560 --> 00:41:04.734 protects the people close to me, that I'm not divulging things that are not mine to share. 00:41:05.338 --> 00:41:11.050 And I think on such a big stage, I'm very aware of protecting myself and the people in my life. 00:41:11.625 --> 00:41:16.978 And also trying to do that in an authentic way is a little bit tricky. 00:41:17.233 --> 00:41:18.400 Can you say more about that? 00:41:19.169 --> 00:41:25.839 Yeah, well, I guess I just never want to feel like I am performing in some kind of false way. 00:41:26.290 --> 00:41:30.531 I never want to feel like I'm putting something on, but I also... 00:41:31.373 --> 00:41:35.671 I do think I'm a different self in some ways at work than I am even in this 00:41:35.671 --> 00:41:39.221 room or when I'm at home. And it's not a huge difference. 00:41:39.641 --> 00:41:42.559 I really try hard to just be who I am when I'm at work. 00:41:42.977 --> 00:41:45.951 But I think the things that I'm sharing and the ways that I'm sharing them are 00:41:45.951 --> 00:41:47.141 going to be different at work. 00:41:47.141 --> 00:41:53.281 And also, I want to make sure that I am me, that someone who meets me on a Shabbat 00:41:53.281 --> 00:41:59.811 morning is not going to be shocked to meet me on a Tuesday afternoon at the grocery store. 00:41:59.968 --> 00:42:05.161 I am the same person, but I think just trying to set boundaries that are clear 00:42:05.161 --> 00:42:09.791 enough for me, emotionally, mentally, psychologically, to know how I'm showing 00:42:09.791 --> 00:42:14.075 up in that space that may be a little bit different than how I would show up outside of it. 00:42:14.493 --> 00:42:22.021 But also, as we know, I think being a pulpit rabbi is really a life more than it's a job. 00:42:22.566 --> 00:42:28.611 And that's also a strange phenomenon in some ways. And I was taking a walk a 00:42:28.611 --> 00:42:31.330 couple

months ago. It was probably eight in the morning. 00:42:31.748 --> 00:42:36.160 And I wasn't really, I was wearing workout clothes. I was just taking a walk 00:42:36.468 --> 00:42:37.930 and I hear someone yelling at me. 00:42:38.366 --> 00:42:42.571 And I take my headphones off because I'm trying to figure out why someone's 00:42:42.571 --> 00:42:43.904 yelling at me at eight in the morning. 00:42:44.374 --> 00:42:48.176 And he says, hey, I think you're my rabbi. 00:42:50.095 --> 00:42:54.952 And I was very taken aback, as you can imagine. 00:42:55.370 --> 00:42:59.723 And then he said, well, one of my rabbis. I said, okay. 00:43:00.250 --> 00:43:04.952 And then we walked a couple blocks together and then he turned off to go home. 00:43:05.417 --> 00:43:10.995 But that happens a lot in my life now in a way that is very different from the 00:43:10.995 --> 00:43:15.595 private life that I had before and the kind of the way the control I had, 00:43:15.595 --> 00:43:17.355 I think, over my small life. 00:43:17.355 --> 00:43:22.545 And now that's that's a little bit not not it's a little bit outside of my control now. 00:43:22.545 --> 00:43:27.475 And I have made my peace with that. And so I control the things that I can control, 00:43:27.475 --> 00:43:30.525 which are the boundaries that I set, what I do and don't share, 00:43:30.525 --> 00:43:32.886 the ways that I engage with community members. 00:43:33.193 --> 00:43:36.845 And then if someone's going to yell at me at 8am when I'm taking a walk that's 00:43:36.845 --> 00:43:40.495 just what's going to happen but I'm not going to stop taking a walk at 8am because. 00:43:41.455 --> 00:43:43.956 I'm still going to create a space for my life even if, 00:43:44.553 --> 00:43:49.760 it sometimes leads to unexpected encounters. A little bit reminds me of celebrity 00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:51.193 sightings at restaurants. 00:43:51.506 --> 00:43:58.250 You know, as an entertainment lawyer, I'm very sensitive to the celebrity perspective. 00:43:58.250 --> 00:44:01.530 Right. Because my clients will talk to me about what that's like. 00:44:01.530 --> 00:44:06.217 And by and large, they're generally very respectful, very open. 00:44:06.565 --> 00:44:12.200 But, like, there are limitations. How, when, where, where they just, 00:44:12.200 --> 00:44:15.450 you know, if it's a private birthday, on the one hand, the argument is, 00:44:15.450 --> 00:44:19.418 okay, a celebrity, including yourself, should know, you know, 00:44:20.080 --> 00:44:21.280 you're in the public space. 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:25.821 So when people see you, you're going to be usually in a friendly way accosted. 00:44:27.160 --> 00:44:32.102 But on the other hand, like you're entitled to your privacy and there's a balance there. 00:44:32.473 --> 00:44:37.891 So like when I see celebrities, I generally like, I note it. 00:44:38.315 --> 00:44:42.370 If they make eye contact, then I will eye contact them, too. 00:44:42.370 --> 00:44:48.543 But I won't go into their space unless it's a musician I happen to love. Then I will, you know. 00:44:49.092 --> 00:44:53.720 Make an exception. Yeah. And then I'll like geek out and be my usual. 00:44:53.720 --> 00:44:59.778 Like when I sat at a bar with Adrian Ballou once, I totally geeked out with him. It was great. 00:45:00.620 --> 00:45:03.750 I didn't really geek out when I ran into Andy Summers in our office. 00:45:03.750 --> 00:45:05.000 I just said, hello, I'm a fan. 00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:08.800 But that was choreographed by his lawyer. 00:45:09.140 --> 00:45:14.240 Like, Andy Summers is going to be in the lobby at 10 o'clock on Tuesday morning. 00:45:14.888 --> 00:45:20.394 And she knew I was a big fan. Yeah, it's definitely a very small version of that life. 00:45:20.544 --> 00:45:26.990 And our friend Rabbi David Kasher at some point said that being a pulpit rabbi 00:45:26.990 --> 00:45:29.304 is being very famous in one small room. 00:45:30.070 --> 00:45:35.177 And I think that that's kind of how it is. You know, I think anywhere else in 00:45:35.177 --> 00:45:38.552 the world, I'm anywhere else in L.A., I'm just a person. 00:45:38.772 --> 00:45:45.377 So I think I feel very grateful that my I still have a private life and I don't 00:45:45.377 --> 00:45:50.578 feel like there are interruptions in that in my day to day life in the ways that. 00:45:51.211 --> 00:45:55.367 Well, as your career develops, that will be less and less true. 00:45:55.767 --> 00:46:02.677 I mean, even David, you know, between his podcast and his book and now working 00:46:02.677 --> 00:46:05.467 for Hadar, he's in multiple rooms. 00:46:05.807 --> 00:46:08.440 People know him from lots of different walks of life. 00:46:08.818 --> 00:46:13.967 And certainly that's true of Sharon, even though she has one pulpit, 00:46:14.518 --> 00:46:19.707 but between her book and, you know, the Time Magazine Rabbi of the Year and 00:46:19.707 --> 00:46:25.484 being at the White House multiple times, like she's now on some level everybody's rabbi. 00:46:25.774 --> 00:46:31.487 And as I, you may not want it, but I'm confident that as you continue to develop 00:46:31.487 --> 00:46:35.127 in your career, you're going to go beyond this particular room, 00:46:35.127 --> 00:46:37.327 even if you stay here for the rest of your life. 00:46:37.887 --> 00:46:40.487 You know, like some people have that thing. Some people don't. 00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:44.186 So is there anything else you're curious about or want to talk about? 00:46:44.366 --> 00:46:49.347 But there is something else from the song that I wanted to just touch on that 00:46:49.347 --> 00:46:54.437 I didn't have a chance to say before, which we kind of talked about a little bit, I guess. 00:46:54.437 --> 00:46:59.247 But just in those first couple lines of the song, we talked earlier about kind 00:46:59.247 --> 00:47:04.087 of this childlike self and talking about teenage blunders. 00:47:04.405 --> 00:47:09.415 But I think one of

the things that really struck me about that is that I think, 00:47:10.008 --> 00:47:11.662 that's how we all feel forever. 00:47:12.287 --> 00:47:17.592 And I think we have this idea that maybe we get to a point in our lives where we feel like. 00:47:18.385 --> 00:47:22.702 Done. You know, I fixed all the things I needed to fix. I went to therapy. 00:47:23.242 --> 00:47:28.114 I worked through all my childhood things. I'm not triggered by anything anymore. I have no traumas. 00:47:28.364 --> 00:47:33.242 I'm engaging with my partner, my children, my friends with no issues. 00:47:33.242 --> 00:47:35.463 Everything's resolved. I'm doing great. 00:47:35.916 --> 00:47:39.991 And that time never comes. And it doesn't matter if you talk to a 15-year-old 00:47:40.282 --> 00:47:46.442 or a 95-year-old, everyone is still in this evolving space and everyone still 00:47:46.442 --> 00:47:49.255 feels like they're making teenage mistakes. 00:47:49.570 --> 00:47:53.552 Everyone still feels like they can't quite figure it out. And I think it's one 00:47:53.552 --> 00:47:55.562 of the great equalizers of all of us. 00:47:55.562 --> 00:48:02.342 And also, I think it takes a lot of work to release the expectation or this 00:48:02.342 --> 00:48:04.584 dream that one day you're going to arrive. 00:48:05.246 --> 00:48:10.762 But that instead you have to settle into this acceptance of I'm always going to have things. 00:48:10.762 --> 00:48:15.342 And the things I'm struggling with today are hopefully different from the things 00:48:15.342 --> 00:48:18.152 I struggled with five years ago and are hopefully different from the things 00:48:18.152 --> 00:48:20.402 I'm going to struggle with in five more years. 00:48:20.402 --> 00:48:23.852 Hopefully we're resolving some things along the way, but as long as you're in 00:48:23.852 --> 00:48:27.781 the world, things continue to be unresolved and then you resolve them. 00:48:28.140 --> 00:48:34.422 And that I think so much of our life is accepting the fact that we're always 00:48:34.422 --> 00:48:37.446 going to feel like a teenager who can't quite figure it out. 00:48:37.910 --> 00:48:43.262 And that our goal and our hope is to be in really meaningful relationships with 00:48:43.262 --> 00:48:48.120 people who allow us to fall short in those ways and give us the grace and the space to then. 00:48:48.782 --> 00:48:53.021 Come back from that and repair them and move forward and that we can do the same for them. 00:48:53.444 --> 00:48:58.091 And I think that's really what the song and the psalm are saying to me, 00:48:58.091 --> 00:49:01.441 at least, which is this relationship is going to continue. 00:49:01.441 --> 00:49:06.261 And how do we continue to create space for each other to both fall short and 00:49:06.261 --> 00:49:08.595 be our best selves and everything in between? 00:49:08.938 --> 00:49:12.681 And that none of that is ever going to come to an end and none of that is ever 00:49:12.681 --> 00:49:17.830 going to be fully accomplished or resolved, but that our work is to stay in that gray. 00:49:18.501 --> 00:49:22.821 Wow, that is beautiful. I almost don't want to say anything else because it's so beautiful. 00:49:23.801 --> 00:49:28.141 But I have to, I have to, because I'm still in the spirit of Adar, 00:49:28.141 --> 00:49:31.123 the last Jewish month, v'nahafochu. 00:49:31.534 --> 00:49:34.421 What rhymes with blunder? Wonder. 00:49:35.581 --> 00:49:38.041 So I think that those two things go together. 00:49:39.681 --> 00:49:45.881 May we always recognize that the teenage blunder is always going to be part of us. 00:49:46.586 --> 00:49:48.741 Accept that. Learn from it. 00:49:50.081 --> 00:49:53.511 Recognize that when we're about to make one that we don't want to make, 00:49:54.034 --> 00:49:56.541 but also allow ourselves to make them. 00:49:57.081 --> 00:50:01.761 But in the same breath, teenage wonder, I mean, the first sunset you experience 00:50:01.761 --> 00:50:05.041 in romance, I think sunset's even in the song, right? 00:50:06.201 --> 00:50:10.861 Or sunrise, I don't remember. First time I woke up on a beach in Tel Aviv having 00:50:10.861 --> 00:50:11.881 slept there for the night. 00:50:12.741 --> 00:50:20.403 I mean, that's just, I still feel the magic of that moment. So may we also know Teenage Wonder. Amen. 00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:25.233 Thank you. This was great. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. 00:50:26.290 --> 00:50:29.707 Thanks so much for listening. Special thanks to Rabbi Jensen for joining me, 00:50:29.707 --> 00:50:33.037 to Devin Schwartz for his help in producing this episode, to E. 00:50:33.037 --> 00:50:37.177 Rose for his help producing the song in this episode, to Jessica Khanna-Sweedler 00:50:37.177 --> 00:50:41.732 for her help on social media, to Liat Silveira for designing the podcast logo. 00:50:42.016 --> 00:50:45.467 Please check out the incredible art on Liat's website at liat, 00:50:45.467 --> 00:50:49.394 L-E-A-T, Silveira, S-I-L-V-E-R-A, dot com. 00:50:49.609 --> 00:50:54.665 And to my wife, Shari, who challenges me in the best way and keeps me grounded daily. 00:50:54.909 --> 00:50:58.817 You can find Worth to Cantin and all the other songs in this song cycle on most 00:50:58.817 --> 00:51:03.233 platforms that stream or download music, including Spotify, Apple, and YouTube. 00:51:03.617 --> 00:51:06.737 It really helps if you review these episodes and share, like, 00:51:06.737 --> 00:51:11.500 comment, and subscribe to the podcast and to me as an artist on your favorite platforms. 00:51:11.912 --> 00:51:15.507 In the next episode of The Rest is Commentary, I will be talking with my dear 00:51:15.507 --> 00:51:21.997 friend, mentor, teacher, Rabbi and Chavrusa, Rabbi Yaffa Epstein of the Jewish 00:51:21.997 --> 00:51:23.735 Education Project in New York. 00:51:24.177 --> 00:51:28.670 We discuss spiritual life holding both inner darkness and outer light, 00:51:29.059 --> 00:51:33.227 prayer as a deeper search for meaning, not just a routine, prayer working 00:51:33.627 --> 00:51:38.097 best when structure and spontaneity support each other, the moments before prayer 00:51:38.097 --> 00:51:43.548 as a part of prayer, real growth meaning facing pain and doubt honestly, 00:51:43.861 --> 00:51:47.987 and so much more, all inspired by Jaffa's thoughts after listening to 00:51:48.427 --> 00:51:50.636 Morning Prayer. Please join us.