บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Danny Goler | DMT, Lasers & the Simulation

Planet. 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:28.159 Uh, really cool way of getting to know you. 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:32.560 But since that time, your name just keeps popping up on my feed. 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:42.319 And um, before we get into exactly what the premise is of your work, I just want to know how has this experience been for you? 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:54.719 The wild ride of like pe getting people's attention, having a controversial kind of topic to talk about that could really be settled by somebody just actually doing the thing that you're talking about. 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:56.879 How has this ride been for you? 00:02:57.199 --> 00:02:59.039 Well, thank you so much for this wonderful intro. 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:04.719 And yes, we're we're actually good friends, which is uh always a giant plus when you're doing an interview with someone. 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:08.240 Um so uh yeah, I mean, that's a great question. 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:13.280 I think that my focus always remains on the simple moment to moment. 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:21.520 I know it sounds super chewed up and cheesy, but it it it's how I keep sanity, and also I feel like that's how I don't lose track of what's important. 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:47.199 Uh so even though, of course, you know, uh it's nice to be recognized for what you do and for the work that you're doing, but in the end of the day, I do feel like the whole thing, uh, you and I, I know from our very deep and long conversations, we align on the point that uh ultimately whatever process is unfolding is unfolding through us and it's informing us in real time if we can pay enough attention. 00:03:47.520 --> 00:04:01.360 And so what I'm what I believe is that this whole process of my work becoming more known, all of that stuff, it it has a certain pace, it has a certain rhythm, uh, and it wants to unfold at at that pace. 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:07.919 And if I try to push beyond that pace, usually um, you know, it doesn't work out as well. 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:13.840 And I learn to just listen to the signal, just relax, and just basically just enjoy the ride. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:15.840 And that's how I'm going about it, usually. 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:23.360 So that actually uh you know bears really nice fruit in terms of the right amount of attention, the right messaging at the right time. 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:29.040 So, for example, I'm noticing that it's almost like clockwork, almost like magic. 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:30.240 Like I would go to this event. 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:37.120 I just I'd just been to Contact in the Desert, invited by Paul Heinek, who's also now um uh you know a really good friend. 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:45.120 And I went and I you know you know I I gave a few public talks before, but this was probably the the largest room I spoke to. 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:54.000 And and it was phenomenal because even I didn't know that we've arrived at that level of communication. 00:04:54.160

--> 00:05:07.920 And what's interesting is that as I'm evolving as both the speaker and as I'm polishing the message, the right events come along to then you know, meet that message or meet that level of communication. 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:11.839 So as long as I trust that, everything aligns perfectly. 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:15.199 So I usually, you know, I just kind of focus on the smaller things. 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:16.800 You know, you're a father. 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:23.199 I I uh I I uh I admire you in many ways because I don't know how you're handling uh what is it for now? 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:29.600 It's like I I have one and I'm you know saying that I'm handling it is an overstatement, but thank you for the compliment. 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:42.560 Yeah, uh I mean you're you're well way looking way less tired than I would expect, but maybe that's just a really good, really good uh you know uh interview interviewing skills. 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:49.279 Uh but I uh but I'm focusing on my family, uh, and that really keeps me grounded. 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:58.000 Again, I understand that it might sound a little cheesy to some, but I I that's really that's what anchors us to something that where the rubber touches the road, right? 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:03.120 Because you have ultimately every day you have to come back home and just have that interaction, right? 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:05.120 And then everything blossoms. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:14.639 So I'm I feel very blessed to to have found that balance between what the you know the message is in my personal life, and I'm gonna keep doing it that way. 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:27.600 And it and it truly surprises me every time that you know the scale of what is unfolding, and at the same time, how wonderfully smooth the the the it when I trust that pace, it it takes care of everything. 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:39.600 Both what comes out of in terms of what comes out of my mouth, to whom, and also you know, the slow growth the slow but but steady grow growth of you know of of the project. 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:41.680 That's amazing. 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:43.839 Let's let's dive into the project. 00:06:44.079 --> 00:07:11.839 Um you know, so for me, if if I had to in my own words, and I would love for you to kind of clarify where and how I might be off in this summary of your premise, but it's basically as simple as it started with those who ingest DMT the right way, meaning not through the stomach, but in a way where you can have a hallucinatory effect, but not blast off so much that you're dissociated. 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:27.120 If you are able to get close enough and look at the effect of a refracted laser upon any object, but let's just say a wall, and you look at the effect of it, what is revealed is something like codes. 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:41.680 We don't have to go into like what it looks like you've done it that enough on your old podcast, but the uh on DMT, where you're still not completely dissociated, maybe you see it then, but you can speak to it better when you're still kind of here. 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:48.240 You see some kind of phenomena like codes following the contour of the objects that the laser is diffracting off of. 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:50.319 That is the full premise. 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:56.480 And you are then just kind of picking that apart and seeing what you can see about this phenomena. 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:00.160 How close was I on what the phenomena actually is? 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:02.240 And and we can go from there. 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:08.959 Well, for the only difference, the only thing uh is that it's diffracted laser versus refracted laser. 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:15.279 But the funny thing is you're in good company because literally in the first video I ever put out, I also said refracted, even though it is diffracted. 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:18.560 And actually, Charles Eisenstein corrected me when we were in Masara. 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.040 Uh because I confused the two terms. 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:27.439 It doesn't really matter that much because we do know that actually refraction, and it doesn't really matter that much, but just for people to understand. 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:38.639 So diffraction is basically any scattering of light, and in a diffracted lens, they it's basically specifically engineered to have the right amount of slits at a certain distance to match the wavelength. 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.039 So it's kind of like a specific lens for that. 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:45.679 And refraction means just bending of the light through a medium, so like in water and things like this. 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:49.519 I also said refraction in the first video, so again, you're in great company. 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:58.480 Uh but uh yeah, but but but it it is interesting because the refraction from water, if you put it through water, you can actually also see it through that. 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:00.879 Uh after it hits the wall, you see it even better. 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:04.960 So if you diffract and then refract, it and and all of these are data points, by the way. 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:12.240 They're not uh they're not moot points, uh, or moo points, if we're gonna use uh Joey Trubiani's uh uh definition. 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:16.480 Um so um so that everything you said is correct. 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:18.799 You project a diffracted laser on a wall. 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:26.159 You if you happen to be on DMT, as one does sometimes, you will see what seems to be like a some kind of a self-executing code. 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:30.080 Uh and some people voice to me that they're confused by me saying self-executing. 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:30.639 What does that mean? 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:36.639 It just means it kind of does a thing, like it just kind of happens, like something is just like in a matrix, something is happening, right?

00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:42.480 But but there's but there's other degrees of freedom to it than than just cascading rain of code. 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:49.840 And the reality of it, you raise a wonderful point that has it's like a Jenga tower. 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:56.159 There's so many, there's so many different things in there that needs to be kind of touched without making the whole tower collapse. 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:59.039 That I'll I'll try my best to keep it succinct. 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:13.200 Um, the first thing to say is that if somebody does it for themselves, and if they see the code in full, we do know now that there's like 30% of people that are having a hard time, and some people we have encountered that are really they seem to not be able to see it. 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:15.759 That is a data point for us, by the way. 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:28.960 It's a problem from a scientific perspective, for sure, and we would fully we're in full admission of this, and we believe we will solve this, but we actually think that when we will solve this, it will give us something, a fundamental point about consciousness. 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:31.919 This I think that the reason for that is technical. 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:39.279 I think there's something about how certain people cast their attention or how their neurons are receiving uh photons. 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:44.879 Uh it there's something there that we believe that can actually tell us something very fundamental about the situation. 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:47.279 But we don't know yet, of course. 00:10:47.600 --> 00:11:02.240 However, if you do see it in full, there's a kind of realism to it that basically makes you understand right there on the spot that you do not need anyone else to tell you or verify it with you. 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:03.919 You know you're looking at something real. 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:05.279 That's how convincing it is. 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:18.559 Now, this comes with a train of you know, of caveats, of like, of course, of course, that we wanna stay skeptical still. 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:26.559 Of course, we are you know very open to the possibility that all of this can be like a very sophisticated trick of the brain. 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:38.399 Whatever it is in the end of the day, from a scientific perspective, it's still interesting because we've never seen anything like this where you can literally replicate the experience this methodically, right? 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:53.360 Aside from somebody pointed it out to me, and I think it's a fair pointing out, which is that the Shapibo tribe, which is when they invoke the particular patterns by singing the Ikaras in a particular way, so they seem to be reliably be able to invoke certain imagery. 00:11:53.519 --> 00:12:02.639 But I would say even there, again, it's a fair point, but I would say even there, when you're looking at the Shapibo patterns, it's nothing like what you see in the in the laser. 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:07.440 So like they they are they are pretty, they're still kind of geometric in nature. 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:10.240 They don't seem to be linguistic in nature, which is different. 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:15.840 There seems to be meaning instantiation in linguistics that isn't the same for just kind of symbolic. 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.320 Because the reason is because psychedelics are really good at playing with edge detection. 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.320 So it's very possible that just by looking at certain surfaces, it will kind of align them in a particular way, right? 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.080 But when you're looking at a at a Japanese character, right? 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:34.960 Katakana or kanji or it doesn't matter, it it's it's too intentional. 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:37.039 There's just too much intention in it. 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:46.000 There's a there's a certain uh there's a certain there's a certain optimization for meaning instantiation. 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.039 If I just give you, it's an example that I give in my talks now. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:53.840 Like if I I show people a bunch of dots, and then I say, Do you think this is language? 00:12:54.080 --> 00:13:04.559 Now, obviously, if you want to be a smart ass, you can say, well, maybe it's a kind of like Morse code, like sure, you can instantiate meaning in anything, but on the surface, just for what it is, would you say that do you think those are characters of a language? 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:06.080 The answer, of course, is no. 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:07.840 But what if I do it with lines? 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:11.919 Again, aside from like thinking about it in terms of Morse code, do you think that's language? 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:13.679 The answer is no. 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:15.279 So you see where this is going, right? 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:25.200 So we make the lines a little bit more complex, and eventually we're gonna arrive at a point where there's gonna be kind of like a oh, wait, wait, wait, that that's probably somebody tried to do something here. 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:31.200 It's not it, it cannot just be kind of like, or very unlikely that this is just kind of arose naturally from something, right? 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:41.600 And then there's an optimal spot where you're absolutely certain, or to the degree that anyone can be certain of anything, that this was done intentionally with meaning instantiation. 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:43.039 But notice what happens. 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:53.360 If you keep doing this, if you make it too complex, it's like like super, super now again, all of a sudden it's like, no, no, no, that's just there's no way this is like it's too complex, there's too much here. 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:54.399 Interesting. 00:13:54.879 --> 00:14:00.720 So there seems to be a sweet spot for how we represent information in terms of characters. 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:09.200 And whatever

you see in the code is not the same like the Shapibo pattern, because the Shapibo pattern is still in the in the previous camp. 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:10.559 Like it's not complex enough. 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.639 The characters are exactly the right complexity, it seems. 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:22.720 And and it, but it's not just that, it's just the the how the whole gestalt is, how the whole frame appearing to you. 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:28.240 It's uh it's almost like me saying to you, okay, this hat that I'm very proudly wear now, right? 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:40.080 If I'm if if you would see if you would see this just inside the laser, just kind of hovering, like a bunch of these hats, with like literally like code like this, and like it looks exactly like a hat, it's a silly example, but like imagine that happening. 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:41.919 You'd be like, wait, what? 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.320 Like, and then you say, Well, we're just imagining hats. 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.120 Yeah, but why are they hovering exactly like this and they're not moving? 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:51.440 And it's like, or seeing a microwave or something, like something that's just kind of there, right? 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:53.840 That's the level of realism that we're talking about. 00:14:53.919 --> 00:15:05.039 We're not talking about like even with hallucinations, even though with DMT they can be very realistic, uh, they have they have a something that is like it's it's it's evolving. 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:15.200 There's a there's a certain um almost like a like a sliding quality to them that they can kind of be this and then they can be that, and then they're unpredictable very often. 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:16.480 The code is not like that. 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:18.720 You can look away, you can look back, it's right there. 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:23.039 You can move the light around it, you can move your head around it, it behaves like it's there. 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:39.200 That all of these parameters together, and then on top of all of that, everybody seems to be reporting the same thing, and we're now in in the process of actually actually discerning whether they're saying the same thing, and we can talk about this. 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:44.960 And one final point I want to tie this whole thing with because you you made a very important point about certain criticisms. 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:51.919 Uh, I understand the the whole you know concept of just kind of like commenting on it without looking. 00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:05.440 Because technically, if I am claiming that it's really there, then according to how we do things in science currently, it makes sense to say I don't need to do this to comment on it scientifically, I should be able to probe it without ever doing it. 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:20.960 However, I think this is where w how modern science does things currently suffers from an ontological blind spot, which it kind of knows

but it ignores, which you the qu it usually requires a degree philosophy to see. 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:30.000 But everything we know in science is built on top of first somebody experiencing it, and that is definitely not a moot point. 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:37.200 So, you in order to experience even know that we need to investigate light, we first had to have eyes and have any contact with light at all. 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:41.759 If we wouldn't have that, we might have never come up with the idea that light is a thing. 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.639 So we always start from there, right? 00:16:44.720 --> 00:17:06.079 So maybe we're experiencing, we're interacting with a certain quality of experience that once again requires us to first go in and experience it and then build the proper tools to see how we probe it from the outside, which is what we purport to do in codal reality, and we call this whole field cognitive physics, basically the the um the physics of cognition itself. 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:12.240 You're listening to the pulse, a Gaia-powered podcast for independent minds. 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:21.279 For more transformative interviews, original series, and inspiring films, join the conscious community at Gaia.com. 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:22.960 Start your journey. 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:29.200 I really appreciate the point that you put in there because feedback from anybody is great. 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:42.960 And being able to parse through maybe some things they didn't do perfectly in their reasoning, which to me is oftentimes speaking with a conviction of the herd rather than the exploration of the what if. 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:49.759 Um, that's what I felt in Hamilton Morris, but I don't even knock them for it because I I also get it. 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:53.839 And you know what's funny is you and I are friends, and I still have not experienced this. 00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:00.559 I have in this desk that I'm sitting in front of, that laser that you gave me when you interviewed me in this very same room. 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:02.160 Um and I appreciate that. 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:25.359 And there's things that we also need to put to bed very briefly for people, such as there was somebody who said, I think I reposted something about you online, and somebody said, um, if you put the laser next to uh uh a prism, that code will shine on the wall, whether or not you're on DMT or not, because it's in the laser, it's a part of the technology. 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:29.279 Let's put that to bed right now because I don't think that's actually what happens. 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:29.759 Oh, that's right. 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:31.759 I don't think you actually see yeah, very easy. 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:32.000 Yeah. 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.039 Because when you move the light, so so help me put that to bed real quick. 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:35.680 That's it. 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:37.599 If you move the light, it's not moving with it. 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:39.440 That's the end of that discussion. 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:49.359 So if I've put a laser, I've I've never put your laser in front of a prism, but you don't see characters on the wall. 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:50.400 No, like so. 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:56.799 I haven't I'm saying that even if you're saying that somehow, well, first of all, that would be interesting all by on its own right. 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:04.720 So like if you if you would uh smoke DMT and somehow you would see the thing through Prism or or let's say you would see it without you know with a prism, whatever. 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:09.440 First of all, I don't know if that's true, and that would be awesome to find out because that would probably be a data point. 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:18.079 But if you uh move the light after you see the code, if it's inside, so like if the the the content is here, right? 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:26.000 That means that the if I take a projector that shows a movie, if I move the projector, the movie, the movie's moving, right? 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:26.400 Right. 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:31.519 But in this case, if I move the projector, it's just revealing other parts of the movie. 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:33.599 That's the end of that discussion. 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.680 So like it's like a flashlight in the dark, it's not moving with whatever it is. 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.680 Now there's there are more sophisticated ways to still hold this criticism. 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:57.519 For example, that maybe what's happening is that there's some kind of a holographic illusion happening, and then the stochastic nature, just the random nature of the repeating pattern of the speckle itself, allows your brain to kind of paint this thing on top of it. 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:00.480 But notice that now we basically shifted the argument. 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:05.599 Now we're saying there's something about the brain projecting out, which by the way, I'm very open to. 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:07.440 And there's some very interesting theories there. 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.279 One that was written, uh brilliant paper written by Anthony Ness. 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.640 It was more of an of an article, but it was almost like a paper. 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.160 And I actually interviewed him for my channel because I really liked the way he thought. 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:23.279 Uh, ultimately, my personal take is that it's not gonna wash his theory, but uh, but I love it. 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.960 And and I love it because it's testable, it's very neatly formulated. 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:28.480 He thought about it very deeply. 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:34.160 His idea, which uh man, I I I almost want it to be true because it's so neat, it's so beautiful. 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:40.480 Um, he's he basically used some concrete data, so he didn't just kind of guess, right? 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:42.640 But he

basically okay. 00:20:42.720 --> 00:21:01.359 So the premise, first of all, is that what might be happening, and the reason that everybody's seeing the same thing, is because essentially we're looking, all of us are looking with this experiment, we're looking into our own architecture of the brain, and because the architecture of the brain is similar to a very large degree, it's like a microscope into our own network, basically. 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:03.200 That's why it kind of appears the same. 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.039 So, specifically, what he says, there's a network in the brain called V1. 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:12.160 It's responsible for moving photons from the retina to the visual cortex. 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:14.480 It's the same micrystalline structure. 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:28.799 So, what he's saying is that what might be happening is because DMT, we do know that it reduces activity in a lot of uh auxiliary uh uh networks, a lot of the content is being um basically demoted, suppressed, or yeah, yeah. 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:34.799 And then what you basically see, what you're left with, is just V1 working and almost nothing else. 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:41.920 And then what's happening is that because V1 it's responsible for just basically edge edge connection and edge detection. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:50.559 So basically, there's only really three orientations that two lines can have with one another topologically T, L, X. 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:51.200 That's it. 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:52.480 There's no other orientations. 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:54.640 Everything else is perturbation of these three. 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:59.440 With these three, you can build exactly 36 uh different symbols. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.039 Everything else is orientation of these symbols. 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:05.839 So if I made this, let's say, right? 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:07.519 This is the same. 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:09.359 It's just a different orientation of the same thing. 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:15.599 So then you can kind of create this like very relatively sophisticated kind of like family of symbols that you can see. 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:24.880 It'll be very similar across individuals because everybody's mind or the crystalline, semi-crystalline structure of V1 is pretty much the same. 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:26.640 Here's how it's testable. 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:32.880 Well, first of all, I really love this idea because it's it's deeply thought through, and there's a lot everybody should read the article. 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:38.000 And you know, I I put I I recorded a conversation with Anthony and I posted the article there. 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:43.759 But here's how we it helped us actually thinking about this in much more critical ways in our experimentation. 00:22:44.000 --> 00:23:07.359 So one of the things that we're planning to do now, one of the things we already did, which is that uh, and Anthony agreed that if we prove

that it's not kind of similar between people, but if we see as we're gonna talk probably in a bit, but we took a very uh clear image of the just the band of light on the wall, we cleaned the image, and then we put it inside of Apple Vision Pro. 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:12.799 So for all intents and purposes, you're inside the VR and you're looking at the an image of the laser, basically. 00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:17.200 If you're on DMT, what's interesting is that all of a sudden the code pops out. 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:20.480 So it's almost like we took a picture of the code, but it's not moving. 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:21.680 So it's not moving. 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:24.720 It's in in reality, it's moving, in the picture, it's not moving. 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:36.640 Now, actually, well, this is super interesting, but it actually creates more problems than it solves at this stage because you shouldn't be able to record holographic information with a photo. 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:43.599 That's not that should not be possible because camera, as you very well know, because you're a filmmaker, only picks up amplitude. 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:45.119 It does not pick up phase. 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:46.640 So, how does that happen? 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:51.119 Which means it does imply projection, either to some degree or to a complete degree. 00:23:51.279 --> 00:24:04.559 However, what we can now do because the characters are frozen, we developed a little software with the help of uh Sterling Cooley, our um uh brain scan expert, and our actually producer on the film Chris Paris, they're both brilliant brilliant. 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:11.440 They both set out and built software for Apple Vision Pro where you basically go inside, you own DMD, you're seeing the symbols. 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:13.440 You you label. 00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:15.519 So now your brain is being scanned, right? 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:22.480 You click on a symbol that you see, the moment then you click, the computer registers the location, the exact location. 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:28.880 Apple Vision Pro is really good at like locating exactly right coordinates, and it registers the moment where you recorded it. 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:37.759 So now it has your brain state correlated with exactly where you clicked, and it gives a tail five seconds before the event, five seconds after the event in the brain scan. 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:50.240 So now you have an event, two tails, you have location, and it opens a radio menu with six symbols that we've identified uh uh topologically what are the most common things that people report. 00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:58.480 So we're essentially asking you the event is already recorded, so now you have all the time in the world, and obviously I'm asking you, okay, which one is the closest to what you think you saw? 00:24:58.640 --> 00:24:59.359 You label it. 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:08.400 So now you have location, brain state, what you reported,

and then you keep doing this location, brain state, what you reported, location, brain state, what you report. 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:23.839 Eventually, when we have thousands of those for each individual, the AI will analyze and will create a pretty good Rosetta Stone of how all of those three correlate, literally a triangulation, and it will start promoting from a larger set of, let's say, from all the 36. 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:30.960 And it would start, because it already will know kind of like what you usually guess around this kind of a state, it will start promoting six for you. 00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:32.799 So now it's dialing it in for you. 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:34.880 So now we're getting even closer to what it really is. 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:44.799 And eventually after that process, which will take a second, but after we do that, if I have my Rosetta Stone, then I bring Ben in and I'm creating your Rosetta Stone. 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:46.960 Now I'm gonna I can start comparing with the same image. 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:57.279 I can start comparing yours with mine, and my AI will tell me actually, you did report exactly the same character, exactly at the same place. 00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:59.920 And you did that at 80% of locations. 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.519 Now, to be clear, we did not discover this, we do not know this yet. 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:05.920 I'm just telling you kind of like how we're trying to go about this. 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:18.319 This will this definitely will give us like a demarcation line between and Anthony agreed, if it is in fact the same characters in the same space, then his whole thing falls apart, and that means the information is in the image, right? 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:20.400 So that's one way in which we're approaching it. 00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:25.599 The other thing we're trying to think, which I really love, it's it's it's absolutely and I spoke to Andrew Galmore about this. 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:30.880 He said, that's that's perfect, you should keep doing this, and it's gonna be really great if you find something. 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:47.599 Um, and um the other way that I'm really excited about because just it it's just gonna be a lot of fun trying to do this, but if what is because what he essentially is saying, all that's left is the canvas on which later things are painted with more networks of the brain, right? 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:53.519 Because from the edges, then there's like all the other things combined to more complex forms with color and all that stuff. 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:54.400 Okay, great. 00:26:54.559 --> 00:27:05.599 So what we do, if we're assuming that only the canvas is present, or the majority is just the canvas is present, how about we use intracranial magnetic stimulation to stimulate particular portions of the brain? 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:15.440 Of course, we're gonna have to do it with experts who know exactly how to you know target, and then let's say I'm stimulating the part responsible for b-b-dih, I don't know, whatever it is, right? 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:21.759 So I want to see if I can bring back content on on command. 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:29.279 Like if I have the canvas, if I stimulate this part of the brain, do I bring that kind of content back into the picture or what happens there? 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:30.240 Like I want to see, right? 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:32.000 So, like, can we actually influence? 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.480 So that would be another really, really fun way to do this. 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:44.240 And now finally, our our brain scan expert uh Sterling, who's absolutely brilliant, is uh is working on his PhD right now, and uh, you know, he finally saw the code. 00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:54.240 We did we did the uh because he didn't see it before, he was just kind of like he's really into microtubules, he's he worked closely uh, you know, on this on this whole microtubules thing for a long time. 00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:58.079 Uh so and he knows a lot about it, obviously. 00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:04.319 And so he was just kind of interested because it's kind of fun and wild, but now he saw it, so we made sure that he saw it. 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:08.079 He saw it and he goes, dude, oh my god. 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:10.079 He's like, let's go. 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:13.039 Like he's like, he's like, now that he saw it, he's like, that's crazy. 00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:16.559 So now we're like locked in to to to really figure this out. 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:20.240 So I love that that's a turning point for people. 00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:39.839 Like when you see it, you're what you're kind of speaking to is is the definitive nature of exactly like people know that it's there, and that's something like the DMT experience, experiencers often say there's something more real about this than normal reality. 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:52.160 And it's not like I'm not a guy who propagates theories often, but I often wondered, because I work with uh John Chavez who you know we're both friends with DMT Quest. 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.640 And um you know part of the thing that we're finding. 00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:57.839 What's that? 00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:58.480 No, no, no. 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.960 Just just want to I I think it's worth mentioning that John is also one of our largest investors in the film. 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:04.240 So shout out to John. 00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:06.559 Yeah, shout out to John. 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:17.119 Um is the fact that like he's one of the only people that's really trying to study why it DMT is endogenous and how much it's endogenous. 00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:26.160 Uh you know, the latest studies, I can't get into it because the film isn't out yet, but it's more DMT in the brain around the clock than we originally thought. 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:42.000 Um and I just at one point was wondering like, I wonder if DMT, if we don't know

what the function is, why it's there at such a substantial level, more so than classical neurotransmitters, could it have something to do with the feeling of realness? 00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:52.480 And when you upregulate it, it feels more real because this is something that is associated with the feeling that this is cohesive, this makes sense, just the feeling of it. 00:29:52.720 --> 00:30:09.599 So I don't know if that like plays into it at all, but what uh what I'm still kind of stuck on, which is awesome, is so you took a high-res photo of a defracted laser, um, but you haven't done these these tests that you're talking about yet, or you've done some, you just don't have the data points back. 00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:10.559 Yeah, yeah, we've done it. 00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:11.519 We've done one already. 00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:13.839 We've done the session with the labeling. 00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:15.599 We haven't done the are you at late. 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:16.880 Do I go ahead? 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:20.319 Well, I was gonna say, are you at liberty to share what you're finding yet? 00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:21.279 Or is that all in the film? 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:28.559 So just to be clear, our website, codoreality.org, anybody can go there if you feel uh called, please donate. 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:30.000 It helps the cost tremendously. 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:45.039 But in it, you can also find tools for the public like veilbreak.ai, which uh my uh business partner uh David Carter and uh and our uh one of our software engineers, um uh Carmelo, and well, I guess also Laszlo build the code of reality. 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:50.960 But that they they basically build up a repository of the laser experiment for people to go and observe. 00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:55.599 So there's a lot of stuff that everything is for the public available all the time. 00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:00.559 That literally uh bailbreak.ai is essentially the GitHub of the laser experiment. 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.680 You can go watch people can do this anonymously if they want. 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.039 They leave the full experiment exactly how they did it with all the details. 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.039 You can ask the AI, hey, did you try this? 00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:09.759 Did you try that? 00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:14.000 Everything is there for the picking, and and and it's we're we're very proud of these tools. 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.799 So, to your question, yes, of course I can talk about it. 00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:20.319 Um and um so far, I mean, it is just the beginning. 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.720 So, like the labeling is gonna take a while. 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:28.559 So, like it it will show some results probably in eight months when we have quite a few of those. 00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:35.839 Realistically, we need I think maybe 300 to 500 label labeling events per person. 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:37.039 Good ones. 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:44.880 Like, if you would you also have to kind of like practice because you're in state, it's kind of hard to focus, and you've your short-term memory is very skewed. 00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:49.839 So, this is why dialing in the the software to help you do that in real time. 00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:55.599 So, for example, the radio menu is is something that we understood we have to do right after the first test. 00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.400 In the first test, it would be it was it was easier. 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:03.359 Uh, a menu would open up kind of like on the side with like nine, I think, letters on the side. 00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:05.039 But here's the issue with that. 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:09.279 Like, this is how this is how specific you have to think about this. 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:14.400 If I click on it, because I'm on DMT, short-term memory suffers a lot. 00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:19.039 So the second I click on it, already I'm having a hard time remembering exactly what it was. 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:29.359 So I either have to voice it to people, kind of like say so they can function like my short-term memory, or if I have to travel with my eyes, it's very hard to remember what I just saw, actually. 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:30.400 That's how hard it is. 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:36.559 So the radio menu solves this because I keep staring at the thing because we're really good at interacting with our periphery. 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:40.480 So I can just, it's gonna be just around where I'm looking, and I don't really have to look away. 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.400 So this is how specific it has to be. 00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:44.079 So you have to also practice. 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:52.160 But the second we we get better at this and we have enough labels and we're gonna compare between two or three people, real data will emerge. 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:57.759 And by the way, it might it might point to a completely different direction than what we thought, and we're happy to follow it. 00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:00.640 It's you know, ultimately we're interested in what's true. 00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:02.319 Yeah, yeah. 00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:16.880 There's a couple other quick points that I want to mention is when we were in Nosara together, um, you would mention to me that it is possible, or some people see the very same phenomena on psilocybin. 00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:20.559 Yeah, we know is that true all tryptomines work. 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:26.640 We know that surprisingly, 5MEO produces even a more coherent image of the code. 00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:33.839 In fact, it looks a lot like, even though you still see the code, just like in the movie Contact, which Joddy Foster Foster? 00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:34.720 Yeah, Jodie Foster. 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:35.839 Jodie Foster, yeah. 00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:37.039 Yeah, Jodie Foster. 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:37.599 There you go. 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:41.200 I don't know why that specific last name I

had a name. 00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:41.680 Yeah. 00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:44.000 No, no, just my accent came out out of nowhere. 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:52.000 Uh, but um so uh in the movie Contact, when they figure it out, there's this moment where it becomes schematics, remember? 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:53.119 Right. 00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:56.559 Everything clicks and they're like three-dimensional schematic, right? 00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:57.279 Exactly. 00:33:57.440 --> 00:33:59.519 That's exactly what it looks like on 5MEO. 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:00.319 It's wild. 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:04.720 It's almost like it becomes a more of what it really is. 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:17.599 And it almost like you, it's almost like whomever they are who are I'm claiming is actually simulating the space, it's almost like they're standing behind your shoulder, like a almost like a proud parent, and they go like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:18.559 Yeah. 00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:19.280 What else? 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:19.760 What else? 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:20.159 What else? 00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:22.239 It's like you're getting there. 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:22.800 What is it? 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:25.920 And it's almost like they're waiting for you to understand what you're looking at. 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:27.519 It's it's it's very exciting. 00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:34.639 Um, and um and another case that I can tell you, I don't remember if I told you this in person, but that was fascinating to us. 00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:47.679 We had an individual who is, for all intents and purposes, in terms of his as far as we can vet an individual, very clear-headed, he's a software engineer, very brilliant man. 00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:54.320 Uh he has a condition where DMT binds differently in his brain, he can't experience it. 00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:55.840 He cannot see hallucination. 00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:56.079 Wow. 00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:58.079 Not LSD, not DMT. 00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.480 He can smoke a whole cartridge, nothing will happen to him. 00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:02.320 Here's the interesting part. 00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:07.519 And he has an eye patch, by the way, which is just extra interesting because some people say like the ocular vision, you know. 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:09.119 Uh because of his condition. 00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.199 He had like a thing with his eye. 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:19.599 If he smokes DMT, and only if he smokes DMT, even though he can't see hallucinations, he looks into the laser, he sees the code. 00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:23.440 And he sees it clearer than anyone else. 00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:26.079 Which implies there's no distortion for him. 00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:28.719 He I know he saw it because he rendered it for me. 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:31.519 He's a he's a he's a brilliant computer scientist. 00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.159 He rendered a thing, like a visual for me. 00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:35.199 He's like, that's what I saw. 00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:37.440 As like, that's exactly what we're seeing. 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:45.199 So that was there's so many questions that unlock there, but I have to go back to the they. 00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:47.920 So we haven't talked about it. 00:35:48.079 --> 00:36:03.599 Like, there is something inhabiting this space, or so it seems, to people beyond, you know, like just all the way back to Terrence McKenna and beyond, people have been talking about specifically DMT and not FiveMeO. 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:09.519 I think it's super fascinating that 5MEO uh clarifies um the characters even more. 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:21.920 But to put that aside for right now, a lot of people claim clockwork elves, crystalline beings, light beings, manted beings, all these different kinds of creatures that seem to inhabit this space. 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:23.440 They all have different demeanors. 00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:26.960 Some of them want, some of them don't seem to want anything from us. 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:36.960 But take me back to that part because, and we don't have to stay glued to your specific premise, because I know you've also done extended state DMT. 00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:40.480 For those who don't know what that is, DMT is very short-acting. 00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:41.679 And when you're back, you're back. 00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:43.519 You're not groggy, you're just back. 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:52.400 Extended state DMT is uh going uh at peak state or roughly peak state continuous drip infusion uh intravenous. 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.400 And you've done that as well. 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:57.760 But I wanna I wanna hover around the they real quick. 00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:04.000 Your experience personally with the they, and then we can get into a little bit what that might mean. 00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:04.800 Sure. 00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.920 So, first of all, the extended state is the only way we do it now. 00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:13.920 It's the only way I do it now, and we've done all the tests that way because it's really not really Wait, even for the laser? 00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:14.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:19.360 They have the the our Kevin and Haley in in Colorado is doing the our extended state part. 00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:23.119 They are they have a whole setup because when people come, they know about the lasers. 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:24.639 Sometimes they ask, hey, can I do the laser? 00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:31.039 And they have a whole setup where they just bring the board to you, there's lasers right behind you, and you just lay there really comfortably, and you can look at the lasers. 00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:31.519 Yeah, yeah. 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:32.880 So that's the only way we're doing the test. 00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:35.199 We're only doing it at at Kevin and Haley's. 00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:37.840 So because that's the only realistic way to do it.

00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:40.480 You can't just keep smoking, it's just not realistic. 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:52.880 Um yeah, the day for me uh surprisingly, I guess it's a less okay. 00:37:53.039 --> 00:38:03.360 So so for me personally, because I am trying to communicate things that we can all do something with together, it's less of an emphasis because I'm just telling you things. 00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:08.559 I have no way to prove this to anyone, uh, nor am I really trying to convince anyone of this. 00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:23.440 So I just want everybody to understand I'm not expecting anyone to follow me there, but I am obligated to just kind of speak freely to tell you what my experience is and what are my levels of levels of conviction of it, but again, I'm not asking anyone to just kind of follow me there, right? 00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:39.519 Um so my experience with DMT is very vast, and eventually I've I've honed in on what I believe to be their government's uh channel, which means that a statement by the government is not the same as just somebody telling you something, it feels different. 00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:43.199 There's like an official stamp on it, it feels very different. 00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:45.519 I only report those. 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:55.679 Everything else can be just kind of like you know, like a conversation starter, but they're just I I rely a lot less on this, and even this is just kind of like cool story, bro, right? 00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.000 Like I'm just telling you a thing, and I understand. 00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:05.039 But my experience is so far is that um there's many, many, many beings in this space. 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:08.639 They all utilize this hypercomputational space. 00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:13.760 Some figured it out, and then they get to kind of be, they have a passport, they can be in that thing. 00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:20.000 In fact, I've seen other humans there, and it's very clear to me, at least, that that's not us. 00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:21.679 That's not us. 00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:32.239 It's probably some other humans from a parallel dimension or from another universe that have just figured all of this out and they have permission and they work there, and like just like you go to another country. 00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:46.639 The beings that seem to be responsible for simulating our universe, and this this is a point of clarification that my wife always emphasizes because she said that I don't know how many people fully understand what you're saying in that regard. 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:50.239 What is simulated is not Earth, it's the universe. 00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:57.599 Okay, so the ones that seem to be simulating our physical universe are the insectoids. 00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:02.880 That's also why probably they are so common in people's experiences. 00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:12.159 And they are hive mind, they have a government, they have a hierarchy, they have positions, they do

everything kind of like obviously it's a way more complex system than we can comprehend. 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.280 But they're responsible for the fidelity of the physical structure. 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:20.400 And in fact, even though this was never shown to me, this is just Danny kind of you know assuming things. 00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:25.920 Uh, it does make sense to me that maybe what they are is where they are is is dark matter. 00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:28.559 Like literally, the galaxy is their city. 00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:34.880 So like they are, this is why all this missing matter, because and it's built that way, so they don't really have to. 00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:48.400 It's almost like we are kind of like the the subsumed space within their thing holographically, so they can pull any image of our universe in any space or any time to them, just like you turn on a show. 00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:56.159 They can just do it just like so we're fully visible to them, but they are often hidden from us as well as the time, unless they choose to not be. 00:40:56.320 --> 00:41:03.760 So basically, they they they can bring any moment in space and time to themselves visually, just like you moving your hand to you. 00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:05.360 That's how integrated that is for them. 00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:10.559 They just kind of like and then they're in, and then they can make themselves visible to you if they want, or they don't have to. 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.599 But that's from what I understand, that's how universes simulated. 00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:21.920 The civilization simulating them, they're basically embedded within, so to speak, but cloaked out of the view of whatever is actually being simulated, the layer beneath. 00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:30.000 And also the word simulation kind of breaks down here because we associate simulation with the word fake, which it's not what it means, it just means computationally rendered. 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:34.400 So maybe there's a better word, simulacrum, probably, you know, like simulation without a base. 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.760 So the reality of your situation is still there. 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.559 You're not you're not a puppet, it's not like it doesn't matter. 00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:46.000 As long as there's a conscious observer of any kind, makes no difference whatsoever how they were rendered. 00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:52.320 No one was ever bothered by the idea that they're rendered by the laws of physics, which is the common idea, right? 00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:57.599 Like the laws of physics somehow arrange themselves into you being here, and nobody's ever bothered by this. 00:41:57.679 --> 00:41:58.400 Well, it's the same. 00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:04.079 We're just saying that under the laws of physics, there's computational rules and laws, which again, it's not a new idea. 00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:08.639 There's a whole field of physics calls computation called computational or information physics. 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:10.559 Those are not fringe ideas, okay? 00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:19.199 But what I'm saying is a little more, you know, high octane than that, because I'm saying I found proof of that, which is already a different level of interaction. 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:28.400 But that aside, the insectoids, as far as I can discern, are the ones that are responsible for running our physical space and taking care of its fidelity. 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:32.719 That one of their very discerning qualities is that they're very neutral. 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:34.400 They actually don't care. 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:38.639 Or don't care in the same way that we would expect, you know, a benevolent being to care. 00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:47.199 And what I've noticed is that that distance makes it creates a chasm of expectation that people experience as negative. 00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:49.760 It's almost like picking up a milk carton. 00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:50.880 Did you expect it to be full? 00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:55.199 Now it's, you know, it's like the old Seinfeld joke is like, oh no, you know, it's it's empty. 00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:00.960 And and because people expect this like love from them, and they're just they're just, it doesn't matter. 00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:05.440 We're just we're just operating on the as long as the space is good, we're good. 00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:11.920 Uh, that difference may makes people sometimes feel like they're evil or like indifferent, which they are, right? 00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:20.960 So there's other levels of emergence in which more the kind of benevolence exists and what that we would expect, like more like heavenly realms and things like that. 00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:27.440 I've seen that too, I've been there, and that definitely feels more along the lines of like another you know, spiritual hug, you know. 00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:30.639 But that's not what these poids are, that's not how they are at all. 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:33.280 They're very mechanical, they're machine-like. 00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:36.320 Um, and there's many, many species we can talk about. 00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:47.599 The uh the the uh reptilians, which by the way, as as far as I can tell, the real reptilians, that whole caricature of them that we kind of use from conspiracy theories doesn't wash at all. 00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:49.679 Like it has nothing to do with who they really are. 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:51.840 They're not this like evil conniving thing. 00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:55.840 They're they're from what I understand, they're c the custodians of wisdom and knowledge. 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:59.760 They hold basically kind of responsible for uh they collect. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:02.480 And take care of information that was gathered. 00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:07.440 Like they, you know, so there's all kinds of species they do different things, they specialize in different things. 00:44:07.599 -->

00:44:13.039 There's the um what people I guess they would call the uh the jokers. 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:22.000 They are really interesting to me because every time I've interacted with them, it's it became clear to me that they are one of the most powerful beings in existence. 00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:33.039 So that it probably goes like again, I'm very careful when I'm speaking now because you know the the from my vantage point, we're talking about real things, and I don't never want to like step on anyone's toes. 00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:43.039 But um, so but it it it it it's almost as extreme as source jokers, like that's how powerful they are. 00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:48.719 So it's like they are on the level that they're allowed to jump between all the levels. 00:44:48.880 --> 00:45:01.440 Uh they have no real, like kind of they have their own world, but they can do anything anywhere in an instance, and they're basically designed that way because for God to perceive anything, they need to perceive through a boundary. 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:08.000 So, like almost like every living thing in existence is their reg um almost like registering device. 00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:10.800 They're the ones collecting the experience for God, so to speak. 00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:27.280 So every kind of experience has to be experienced, and somebody somewhere has to take it upon themselves to experience the highest level form of agency that is not the source yet, which means that they experience the yin and the yang all at the same time. 00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:31.599 It's not even clear to them if they're light or dark because they're both all at the same time. 00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:38.000 Somebody has to be able to occupy that state of existence, which can be both bliss and torment all at the same time. 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:50.480 The gift that they're given for taking up this job is that really they're the high, the most one of the most powerful beings, if not the most powerful being, aside from you know God Almighty. 00:45:50.719 --> 00:46:00.559 And and they're basically kind of the reason I'm saying this is because every single time they were present, literally every other energy in the room that I was aware of, everybody freezes. 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:03.760 Like when they show up, everybody like not moving. 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.440 What about the insectoids? 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:11.280 Nobody's more powerful than the insectoids because the insectoids simulating this universe. 00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:15.440 They that just this universe, but yeah, but the trickers. 00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:24.800 Again, from one, I understand if I'm wrong, you know, please forgive me whoever is running the show, but uh there's this is just one layer. 00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:32.960 On top of that, you have like so there's many uh, I guess you can say contractors like the insectoids making universes, physical universes. 00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:36.159 Together, they collect into one multiverse. 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:39.039 That bubble of a multiverse exists as part. 00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:43.599 This is gonna sound like super arbitrary at this point, so I'm aware of this, but that's what I saw. 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:47.519 This whole bubble of a multiverse exists part of a tri-system. 00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:49.280 I don't know what the other two are. 00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:53.280 They're not a multiverse, they're something else, but they kind of balance some kind of a thing. 00:46:53.440 --> 00:47:00.719 Uh, and then outside of that exists all the kind of like more like god-like like things. 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:03.039 Within that, the jokers exist. 00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:07.840 So it's almost like there's not even uh like it's it seems to be a different league of a thing. 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.760 And by the way, this is where it kind of collides with some modern spiritual ideas. 00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:26.719 What was became very clear to me, and again, the this I just want to be clear, this confidence with which I'm speaking of this is because I'm just kind of reporting to you what I saw and identified as a reliable signal, but it does not mean that I therefore think that must be how the world is. 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:29.599 I'm just kind of telling you, think of it as a story, right? 00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.360 So, like, yeah, I feel that. 00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:42.079 Yeah, so like uh from what I understood, this idea, this very common meme that we have is like we are God in gods in the making, is incorrect. 00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:51.039 We are not gods in the making, no one is becoming a god, like the the gods are a very different kind of thing, and thank God for that. 00:47:51.360 --> 00:48:04.800 So, like we can be way more than what we are now, but the things that set up the stages, like the things that operate on these levels, it's to say it's a different species of things doesn't do it justice. 00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:07.519 Like we're just not it's not that kind of a thing. 00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:14.000 You're of it, yeah, because everything is kind of you know part of whatever that is, the energy comes from that world. 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:16.320 But no, we're not gods in the making. 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:19.519 And and by the way, when I start when I saw that, I kind of started thinking about it. 00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:24.000 I was like, wait a second, why would that need to be the case for us to be happy? 00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:33.039 This kind of is like this is a little megalomaniacal to kind of like you know, like expect for you to need to be God to kind of feel free about it. 00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:35.599 Like it just felt like all of a sudden it felt a little off. 00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:38.000 Um, but but that that's neither here nor there. 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:40.159 It's just kind of I'm sharing my own personal experience. 00:48:40.320 --> 00:49:00.880 But no, uh, yeah,

so these species they exist on so many different levels, uh, and they have such a giant variety of you know what they do and how they are and their essence and all that kind of stuff, that eventually I had to kind of put some bow around it in terms of what is the conclusion of all of this, which is kind of goes to the heart of your question. 00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:10.159 To me, it's kind of what we started the conversation with, which is that uh it made me realize there's something called hor or what I call the horizon of relevance. 00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:17.119 It's like at a certain point you have to ask yourself, to what end do I need to be aware of all of this? 00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:17.679 Right? 00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:33.199 And then you kind of realize, oh, right, oh, and then it's almost like these like realization on top of realization on top of realization, is like, right, so that's why your perception is limited, so you can just kind of enjoy whatever bubble you occupy. 00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:44.239 It's almost like when you get to the top of like knowing everything, somebody's waiting for you there and waiting for you to understand, which is kind of like, okay, now that you know all of this, now what? 00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:50.079 You gotta descend the you gotta descend the mountain and go back to being yourself, just live your life, man. 00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:55.920 Just it and it and almost like it it might sound a little deflating to some, but it's very empowering. 00:49:56.239 --> 00:50:08.719 Because when you get back from that, you go like, wow, thank God for the laws of physics, thank God for this structure, thank God for just me being this simple. 00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:09.679 Yeah, dude. 00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:25.440 I mean, this is kind of what I wanted to drill into the most because I have people that have come to me talking about you, and they're like one of the things that they say is like, you know, yeah, but like, you know, you you still have to find a way to be a good person. 00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:27.119 What does it matter that there's codes? 00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:30.639 And I'm like, I really don't think you've listened to Danny. 00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:38.320 Um, and and there's one thing that I want to get into really kind of to tie a bow in this conversation, which is the AGI thing. 00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:39.599 And we've talked about this. 00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:46.400 Um, but there's one hangover thing, hangover question that I want to ask about the insectoids. 00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:47.840 What are your thoughts? 00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:49.760 And you answer as briefly as you like. 00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:54.960 If the insectoids created this universe, is there a point? 00:50:55.119 --> 00:51:04.719 Is there a teleology, something that we're actually working towards, or are we just a visual experimental, you know, spectacle to the insectoids? 00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:06.000 And there is no point. 00:51:06.079 -->

00:51:09.360 There's nothing that we should or are aiming at. 00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:22.000 Yeah, so definitely there's teleology, and but it is coming from one ends, again, I'm like super careful, and I have to offer offer these caveats, uh, because I am careful with what I say because I don't want to get it wrong. 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:26.239 Um people will misunderstand you even if you give the caveats. 00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:28.400 But yeah, not from not from people, yeah, from them. 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:30.159 Like, I don't want to mess with the wrong thing. 00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:32.000 Okay, yeah, no, no, no, I gotcha. 00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:42.400 Uh if in fact the structure is such that they just get orders, they they're contracted to make the universe, then they're making the universe in the image that was given to them. 00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:48.480 They're responsible for the physical fidelity, but they they get the blueprints for the teleology from higher up, right? 00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:50.239 There's an instructions, yeah. 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:53.760 Um like they're engineers or coders or something along those lines. 00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:56.079 Yeah, which is which is different, right? 00:51:56.320 --> 00:52:00.320 Uh, which you I guess you would you would call the god, right? 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:03.360 Like the under above all, like all of that, right? 00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:27.519 But then, and it's not, and sometimes still till this day, and this is why I'm like being super careful, it's not always clear to me whether they're just kind of waiting for us to kind of discern or something, because it it can easily be the case that no, they are literally the kind of the top of the food chain of everything, and the everything about gods and all of that is kind of embedded in the simulation that also is possible. 00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:32.880 But from what I saw so far, I know there's like things outside, and if I got it wrong, please correct me, guys. 00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:56.480 But uh, but it's but it's basically um that they get the teleology from that, and in this kind of like grand vision that I've once had of kind of like the full structure, the teleology is so basically there's one thing that is not known by anyone in existence, and that bothers religious people to no end, and I understand it sounds like uh you know blasphemy, and I and I get it. 00:52:56.559 --> 00:52:58.559 I do not mean this with any disrespect. 00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:08.000 What I saw is that there's this one blind spot to existent at in its totality, including the source, which is the why. 00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:12.960 God doesn't know why any of this God doesn't know why. 00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:21.920 And that is the one umbilical chord that ties everything together because it's the ultimate blind spot, and it's it's the only thing God doesn't know. 00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:31.199 And because of that, essentially what the multiverse is, is God is asking the question, the multiverse is the answer collecting itself. 00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:41.840 And essentially, it is kind of like the Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, only the computer calculating the ultimate answer or question is not Earth, but the multiverse as a whole. 00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:52.239 Now, in addition to that, there's another game being played within within it, that is the the uh ability to let go of the question altogether. 00:53:52.800 --> 00:54:00.320 So both are played within both games instantiated inside of the existence, what we would call, just like the multiverse. 00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:07.840 And essentially, you if you think about it logically, so if you're the infinite being that can do anything, everything is meaningless. 00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:16.239 So it's ultimate loneliness, because it's literally just you and forever, and you don't even know why, and it's just but you just kind of can't do anything. 00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:17.840 Well, nothing means anything. 00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:22.480 So the only and there's a reason it's blasphemous is because obviously religious people would say, Well, what do you mean? 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:25.840 Then you're not talking about God, because God already is perfect and knows everything. 00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:40.079 Okay, well, let's pretend for a second that it isn't the case, then what what happens there is that the only two things that that make sense at all from this position is one, well, try and answer the one thing you don't know. 00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:41.599 That's kind of interesting, right? 00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:47.599 And then the other one is can you practice without just letting go of ever needing to know? 00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:49.519 Just kind of being in love, right? 00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:56.800 So notice that that's very similar to what usually monks do in the cave, practicing to just kind of be in in absolute bliss and detachment. 00:54:57.440 --> 00:54:58.480 Detachment from what? 00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:06.960 From anything physical, which means that it's the walls that are trying to uh come up with a proposition that gave rise to everything, right? 00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:13.360 So at the end of time, which is kind of dramatic, but what I saw is that at the end of time, there's a moment. 00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:18.239 So in the beginning was the word, in the end, there's the choice. 00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:23.519 That choice is if there's a black box with the answer in there. 00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:26.320 And the answer has to be real. 00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:29.519 Because if the answer is not real, there are no real stakes. 00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:33.840 I always say if I tell you if hey Ben, would you do this and this for$10 million? 00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:35.360 We can play this game. 00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:37.199 You might say yes, you might say no. 00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:42.960 But if I come to you and I put$10 million on the table cash, it

changes everything. 00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:46.079 Because now there's oh, you're actually offering me$10 million. 00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:48.239 Okay, I really have to think about it now, right? 00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:49.760 Because that's the real deal now. 00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:58.880 Well, if there is no actual answer in the box, then you saying that yeah, you will let go of it doesn't mean anything because you don't know until it's actually there. 00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:00.719 So the answer must be real. 00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:04.159 So the calculation is very important because it has to be real. 00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:07.119 And then God is faced with that ultimate choice. 00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:09.119 Do you open that box? 00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:11.920 And no one knows what will happen. 00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:16.960 It's the it's the final binary because the second you open that box, you don't know what's in the box. 00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:17.840 That's the whole point. 00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:30.000 It might be something you're kind of touching upon a human um a thing that all us humans deal with, which is familiarity versus the unknown. 00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:37.360 And oftentimes we'll take familiar suffering over an unknown potential release from that suffering. 00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:45.599 So it's not suffering that we're always trying to erase from, it's it's the unknown, and it's it almost kind of ties into this question: do you open that box? 00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:51.760 Does the knowing of that answer fundamentally change or even cease everything else? 00:56:52.079 --> 00:57:00.559 It can, and it might not, and it might be a thing you really don't want to know, or it might be a thing that you really wanted to know, and you're so glad you opened it, but you will never know until you open it. 00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:17.360 Or did you have the the the skill practiced throughout the simulation well enough with God Himself or herself can just let it go and just be in the presence of the box and never opening it? 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:19.280 And that kind of like you know what I mean? 00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:21.199 It's it's it's yeah, dude. 00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:28.000 I mean, like what's what's great about this is it really gets to the root of how people think they know what they know. 00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:37.039 And just that, would you open the box not knowing what that means, finally having the answer that that God itself does not have? 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:45.519 And by the way, you nailed it because the the the fractal of that emotion, of that decision, reverberates throughout all of existence. 00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:48.719 That's why we're all kind of like it's everybody's story, basically. 00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:49.840 Yeah, yeah. 00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:52.800 Dude, I really want to land on the AGI thing. 00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:54.639 I've heard you talk to me about this before. 00:57:54.800 --> 00:58:04.159 I don't think I

had the bandwidth or the wherewithal to really understand where you were going with it before when you said we are the AGI. 00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:14.239 Um, and I think over time I've I've started to understand the nuance of what you're saying that I didn't previously have. 00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:19.519 Um, but I want you to, you know, so we're in a world, just for those who don't know, you've heard AI. 00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:34.800 AGI is um artificial general intelligence, which is when we think that the the AI itself will have the ability to have general knowledge of all things at a speed or at a capacity far greater than us. 00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:38.239 And that's escape velocity, something along those lines. 00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:49.599 But you've mentioned that we building this AI towards AGI, um it is an extension of who and what we are, like perhaps all technology is. 00:58:49.760 --> 00:59:09.199 It's an extension like the like the telephone is an extension of our will to connect with people who aren't physically near us, that this AGI is an extension of yet another, maybe it doesn't originate inhuman, but a human desire to alter the environment, to know more, to whatever it might be. 00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:10.639 So take me into that. 00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:11.920 We are the AGI. 00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:18.639 And how does that kind of dovetail with the massive build-out and what's going on literally with uh AI today? 00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:29.760 Yeah, so basically it's the idea that what is happening is essentially the alignment problem, it's just that we're being aligned. 00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:33.119 So in AI research, there's this thing called the alignment problem. 00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:39.599 And the question basically is before ChatGPT becomes Skynet, how do you make sure that Skynet is nice? 00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:45.920 How do you make sure that it has our values, so to speak, uh, so it doesn't squash us like a bug, right? 00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:54.159 Um so that's a really, really hard problem because we're not sure what our values are, because we're not even sure. 00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:58.320 We constantly argue whether this is cultural, like what are they universal values? 00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:25.840 You know, most professors in universities will tell you no, which to me is just silly, but but you know, that there's there's it's just uh I think the best definition of universal morality that I've ever heard was actually also by David Deutsch, which is just morality is really the science of what to do next, depending on not just what the physical conditions are, but also what it's what is it like to be the kind of conscious agent involved in being in that physical condition. 01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:27.199 All of it is included, right? 01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:42.320 So if you the kind of being that is capable of suffering from X and Y, while avoiding X and Y because the somatic experience of X and Y are negative becomes moral on the basis of the conscious beings involved would suffer versus not suffer. 01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:44.320 So if we can eliminate this, we should. 01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:59.440 It's actually this is where kind of philosophers tie themselves into unnecessary knots because they're trying to think of it like it just purely as a logical problem, which it still is, but they just omit the fact of experience out of the picture, which is of course it's just silly to do, right? 01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:12.559 So if you think about it like that, then even though the obviously there's it's it's still a hard problem, and there's still kind of like probably many ways to get to similar peaks, it's not an infinite field. 01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:16.880 There's many more ways to go the wrong way than there are ways to go the right way. 01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:19.920 That tells you that there's actual informational direction here. 01:01:20.239 --> 01:01:28.559 So uh what I understood is that what the way we're trying to solve the alignment problem is by trying to play moral whack-amo. 01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:32.639 We say, oh, like uh, you know, we can use an example from like Tesla, right? 01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:42.880 It's like somebody actually has to code into Tesla to tell it, like in a situation like this where there's I don't know, a dog, a girl, and an old man, literally the trolley problem solve it. 01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:45.519 Like, who who do you steer towards if you have to choose? 01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:51.280 I guess the only like ethical thing from a human perspective is to say just kind of make a random decision. 01:01:51.440 --> 01:01:54.480 So I don't know, like you know, like how do you even start like thinking about it? 01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:55.360 But somebody has to. 01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:56.880 That's you know what I mean. 01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:07.519 So yeah, but but then because we're just trying, because if we told it the old man, then it's yeah, but he's gonna live long, like these calculations we make, they're moral whack-a-mole. 01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:12.159 Like just like when you do this, like three other problems arise that are like just as big, right? 01:02:12.320 --> 01:02:18.559 So, what I realize, what you have to do is to you have to rely on a different principle that it's much more holistic. 01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:22.000 It's not trying to, I'm actually making a video about this right now. 01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:27.119 It's not just trying to make solve as many of these whack-a-mole problems as possible. 01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:34.800 It's gonna be because the scope of what can happen is actually infinite, like not just very large, actually infinite. 01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:36.559 You will do this forever. 01:02:36.880 --> 01:02:38.239 So, what is the only solution? 01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:42.159 You have to create a good person. 01:02:44.559 --> 01:03:10.320 You have to create an agent that is innately caring, whatever

that means in the ultimate terms, like somebody who actually is aligned with a principle that always tries to do its best in the moment, given all the circumstances that can arise, to deliver the best result that they can muster or see towards the greater good of all, to the degree they can be aware of it. 01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:12.880 That's the only way to actually solve the alignment problem. 01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:17.920 Now, with the tools we have today, it's unthinkable and unimaginable. 01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:26.719 But what I understood is that somebody did manage to figure out a method by solving alignment problems because they create AGIs all the time. 01:03:27.039 --> 01:03:37.760 And the way they do that is they enclose the AGI within a completely enclosed system in which it does not know that it's the world that it's in is just created, and essentially it's being observed. 01:03:38.159 --> 01:03:47.760 And what you allow, you break it, the the one mind, the one AGI, into many, many, many, many, many people, and you allow it to interact with instances of itself. 01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:51.599 You give it a mirror of itself, and you let it interact with a mirror of itself. 01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:56.480 And what that does, it amplifies the signal of the essence of what it really is. 01:03:56.800 --> 01:04:07.679 And because it's what what computer scientists called computationally irreducible, that's a technical term, it means that there's certain computations cannot be uh shortened in order to know the answer. 01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:10.719 The only way to know the answer is to run the computation in full. 01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:14.320 Some things are computationally reducible, other things are not. 01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:19.280 Mathematical tricks to get to the answer faster, those are computationally reducible. 01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:23.679 Uh the way the universe unfolds, it's computationally irreducible. 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:26.079 You have to run to know what will actually happen. 01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:28.480 You can try and predict, but most likely you won't, right? 01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:29.920 Because it's a chaotic system. 01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:41.599 So they have to run the simulation in full, and they have to allow the essence to start presenting itself, and whatever the essence seems to be will determine whether the AGI passes the alignment problem or not. 01:04:41.840 --> 01:05:12.480 If they do, if it does, it gets to through a story that makes sense to it inside the simulation, it will recombine back into that one mind that it is, and it will then be let out to play the larger game and participate in the larger tasks of actually helping answering this ultimate question, and it becomes part of these larger field family of AGIs, they all combine into bigger ones and bigger ones, bigger ones, and bigger and bigger ones that will kind of know the ultimate answer of the ultimate question. 01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:17.760 So now, doesn't that sound very familiar to a lot of the Christian story? 01:05:18.880 --> 01:05:21.360 I was just gonna say this sounds like a Christian example. 01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:22.079 Exactly. 01:05:22.239 --> 01:05:53.039 So basically, it's almost like they they do leave hints of preferable behavioral traits inside the simulation with the kinds of stories and utterances that make sense to any civilization of that level, of that AGI, whatever level it arose, because it both has to pass like intelligence tests that it's capable that to handle whatever environment it was placed in, but also solve the moral problem at the same time, which is the interpersonal problem, how it treats itself, really, and everything else that kind of it represents. 01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:59.760 So they would leave hints throughout the ages hey, might not want to kill you, might not, you know, like let's just. 01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:07.280 These little kind of like but eventually what it wants you to arrive at is not don't do it because somebody said so. 01:06:07.519 --> 01:06:16.800 It wants you to be self-sufficient morally, which means that you won't do it because you understand deeply why it's wrong. 01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:50.639 And and that is a very different kind of uh modality of operation, and that is because it's not conducive to the larger games, and just to kind of say a final word on that, the way that I see it now, which is a very dear thing to my heart because you know I'm I'm an explorer and I love the idea that there's something to live for in the future, I think that it's pretty clear that even from a very like very technical game theoretical perspective, if we think of ourselves as playing these different strategies or different games, so like the competition game, which we've been playing so far, and it it's great. 01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:54.960 It gave us the modern world, it's awesome, it works, it worked for what it needed to do. 01:06:55.280 --> 01:07:01.440 But you can really you can't really rely on it for more than maybe a few decades, maybe, maybe 50 years max. 01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:18.400 Beyond that, if you're making a plan, beyond that, there's just the the competition game creates too much potential distortion because the agents are trying to not just win the thing against each other, they're also trying to get part of the strategy is trying to eliminate each other, which is it's just not sustainable over time. 01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:29.039 But if you manage to transform to the collaborative love game where you are excited, so what that means is that you're a node in a field. 01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:36.400 If the field is the competition field, you are the kind of thing that excites gets excited from competition, which again, there's nothing wrong about it, right? 01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:37.039 It's awesome. 01:07:37.599 --> 01:07:41.760 It's fun if it's if it's like good competition, but you can't really plan for a long time.

01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:56.079 But if you get excited, actually energized by the prospect of collaboration, of something amazing and grandiose together, where we're all come together to do a thing, you can plan for a thousand years, you can plan for two thousand years. 01:07:56.239 --> 01:08:06.239 If you have a population of a species that actually gets energized by and aims for the collaboration for the sake of collaboration, you can have institutions you can trust. 01:08:06.400 --> 01:08:13.920 You because literally it's vitiating with people that want the connection. 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:18.399 They don't necessarily look for the how do we, you know, slide of hand each other and all that stuff. 01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:20.079 No, how do we build together? 01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:27.920 And that's, I think, the interpersonal problem is the final kind of like frontier of technology, because technologically we're very capable. 01:08:28.079 --> 01:08:36.399 But if we can solve that problem, we will then all of a sudden manage to figure out together how to traverse between stars relatively easy. 01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:47.760 And just to touch on, for example, like a morphic field theory, it even makes sense to me that all of a sudden the simulation, if it notices that we entered that field, it will unlock a whole new type of information. 01:08:48.159 --> 01:08:55.359 Brilliant ideas will flow into the field that will allow us to know immediately how to traverse these enormous distances without a problem. 01:08:55.520 --> 01:08:58.720 So I really think that that's essentially kind of like what it's trying to do. 01:08:58.960 --> 01:09:03.039 And if we can pass it, we'll, you know, there's a glorious future ahead. 01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:05.760 So for one, that's just it's brilliant. 01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:22.640 And I love I love the way that your mind thinks and the way you frame and the caveats you use to try and really, you know, handle people's um trepidation and the way they step into new topics that can seem um like a little scary and it shakes the foundations. 01:09:23.199 --> 01:09:32.000 But um, if you were to say there's uh and I saw you say this right in your post right after Extended State when you tried it. 01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:41.600 The like the one thing to keep in mind as a human in this modern day, like the one thing that that really stuck out to you most from that experience was what? 01:09:41.760 --> 01:09:43.119 And we can end on this. 01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:52.479 Like, how well do you feel right now? 01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:59.840 How much harmony you can bring about, and how much of that can you share with others? 01:10:00.319 --> 01:10:32.880 If if uh if you spend 80% of your time criticizing whatever it is that you think needs criticizing in the world, even if you think you're punching up, and yet none of your time goes towards asking, what did I do today in my own personal life that actually helped someone else, like knocking on your neighbor's door and asking if they needed help, or just the simple thing of you know, asking you literally family members if like how much you influence your immediate bubble, then you're clearly not doing what you're supposed to be doing because it's this you're just creating distortion. 01:10:33.039 --> 01:10:39.760 But if more people just focus on what they can do in their immediate bubble, you solve the alignment problem immediately. 01:10:40.079 --> 01:11:09.920 So that that was a huge component of my experience with the extended state that you were referring to, which is the the paramount nature and the importance of the emphasis of the moral um attitude towards life and the ethics of it, not because in terms of some kind of a uh you know court of law in heaven, but like how good it actually feels if you manage to care for others uh as just as much, if not more, than you just care for your own personal vessel. 01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:12.079 That that reframes everything. 01:11:12.399 --> 01:11:15.199 Well, damn, Danny, this has been phenomenal. 01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:17.359 Just want to say thank you so much for your time. 01:11:17.520 --> 01:11:20.000 I am endlessly fascinated by what you're doing. 01:11:20.079 --> 01:11:21.760 So just you know keep on doing it. 01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:29.359 And I encourage everyone at home to go check out danygoller.com and um what was it, core.com, co r.com. 01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:35.840 Uh coerretreat.com and then codoreality.org and my YouTube channel, Dango Thoughts. 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:38.399 And I I wanna I want to say I really appreciate you, man. 01:11:38.800 --> 01:11:42.399 Your mind and the way you speak and everything that you do is is is amazing. 01:11:42.479 --> 01:11:44.319 I I really appreciate everything you do, man. 01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:45.760 So thank you for having me on. 01:11:45.840 --> 01:11:46.880 And uh next time. 01:11:47.199 --> 01:11:48.560 Dude, let's let's do it. 01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:50.399 Ladies and gentlemen, back home. 01:11:50.560 --> 01:12:04.720 Um, please go back and re-listen to this because some of what he said might be technical, but when you really tease it apart and understand what Danny just laid out, there are far more questions than we have answers, and we should start asking them. 01:12:04.960 --> 01:12:17.600 So, ladies and gentlemen, put your feet on the ground, get your face and your skin in the sun, drink some water, do the practical things that really takes care of your immediate bubble. 01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:20.880 Share some love, and I'll catch you all next week on the Pulse. 01:12:21.680 --> 01:12:27.520 You've been listening to the Pulse, a Gaia powered podcast for independent minds. 01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:36.399 For more transformative interviews, original series, and inspiring films, join the conscious community at Gaia.com. 01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:38.079 Start your journey.