สำเนาบทสนทนา 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:02.479
Welcome back to the Progress Report.
00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:12.560
Today's conversation is one that challenges assumptions, breaks down barriers, and quite honestly, might change the way you think about health, awareness, and advocacy.
00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:16.559
When most people hear the words breast cancer, they picture women.
00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:19.199
But the reality is it doesn't discriminate.
00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.879
And for men, that misunderstanding can be dangerous.
00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:28.640
Our guest today is Jake Messier, known to many as the guy with stage four breast cancer.
00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:38.880
He's a former Marine, a seasoned marketing executive, media personality, and now one of the most visible and impactful voices in the fight to raise awareness around male breast cancer.
00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:44.159
You know, I wonder, I wonder you words have a lot of power to them and they mean a lot to us.
00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:52.960
And obviously they've they've changed the wording with different things, especially in the mental health arena, you know, with PTSD and different things that were called different things in the past.
00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:53.359
Sure.
00:00:53.600 --> 00:01:09.439
And sometimes the label of something um will keep a person from trying to get that that thing detected or embracing the fact that they have that thing because they don't want to be under the stigma of X, Y, or Z.
00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:12.560
Wouldn't it be possibly a simple fix?
00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:16.000
Because I think for most people, where they hear the word breast, they think female.
00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:24.879
What if what if they were to come up with just a different name for it and and kind of almost as part of their their push where and listen, Jake, I'm with you.
00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:31.599
If if somebody told me I had that, I don't care what they call it, I'm getting it, I'm going to get it fixed and I want to get rid of it.
00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:35.760
I I can I can I'm secure enough in my masculinity that I don't care.
00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:37.920
But I do know that's a real thing for men.
00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:47.200
And there are, I will tell you that there are guys, like there's there's a handful of celebrities that, you know, none of them are sort of true A-listers.
00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:50.560
There's a handful of celebrities that have gotten male breast cancer, right?
00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:54.159
Um, Richard Roundtree, who played Shaft back in the 70s.
00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:57.519
Um, Peter Chris, the drummer from Kiss.
00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:05.120
Um and then, you know, probably the biggest one, and getting exactly to your point, is Beyonce's dad.
00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:09.360
Okay, so he he could use his status as Beyonce's dad.
00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:12.000
I don't know what Beyonce's dad name is, right?
00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:16.240
But he's Beyonce's dad, and you can use that to get out there and talk about this.
00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:19.439
He refuses to call it breast cancer, he calls it chest cancer.
00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.000
And I'm like, that's not a that's not a thing, man.
00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:30.080
Like, you're literally making this worse because you're not even acknowledging the part of the body that we have a cancer in, right?
00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:38.639
And so um there's a there's a lot of men that refuse to even acknowledge that they have breast tissue, right?
00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.159
And that's I you know, I get it, every guy is on their own journey.
00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:43.520
I mean, I I understand that.
00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.680
And when you get thrust into this, it just makes everything really wonky.
00:02:47.759 --> 00:03:01.360
But yeah, I will tell you that when when men uh can accept and go through the middle of the hard things, and and I'm gonna say there's probably nothing harder than getting breast cancer as a guy.
00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:07.039
When you can accept that and go through the middle of it, like that's when things start to change.
00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:07.360
Yeah.
00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:12.080
When people are ashamed to even call their their breasts breasts, right?
00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:21.120
When people are like nothing, like you're only actually making it worse because you're adding to the stigma and adding to the isolation and adding to the embarrassment.
00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:26.560
They're like, well, if Beyonce's dad, who has all the money in the world, can't even come out and say that I have breast tissue, right?
00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:29.360
Like, yeah, what the what am I supposed to do living in Ohio?
00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:30.960
Like, you know, what am I supposed to do?
00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:39.599
And so, I mean, it it it it is a problem that that there is a subset of guys that refuses to even call it what it is, right?
00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:53.919
Yes, it may be embarrassing, but it's a it's what it is, and it and making it and I agree, I I agree with you that it is what it is, and I agree that really there should be education that that men do have breast tissue.
00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:57.439
I bet you a lot of men don't even realize that that it's called breast tissue.
00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:18.079
But I just wonder if in the meantime, and I and I get what you're saying, that you know, you don't want to you know uh perpetuate the the stigma, but I would hate for lives to be lost because of this, you know, the the fear of the stigma and maybe just a change in the name of it, even if you called it upper upper torso, uh, you know, uh but that's not what it is.
00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:21.360
I mean, upper torso could be saying it could be a lot of things.
00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:22.319
I mean, I know what you're saying.
00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:26.240
Yeah, just something so men become men become more than that.
00:04:26.399
Load full transcript
--> 00:04:32.079
But if somebody gets anal cancer, I mean, should we start calling it something else because anal is an uncomfortable word?
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:41.839
Like, like should we start changing things just because somebody finds it uncomfortable, even though it's literally the name of the organ or the name of the thing?
00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:51.199
You know, I I in my opinion, you know, uh yes, if it, you know, I I see your point where if it saves lives, then then then sure.
00:04:51.519 --> 00:05:00.560
That's all I'm thinking, is but at the same time, just you know, it it not calling it actually what it is is is perpetuating the stigma, right?
00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.279
And that's yeah, you know, it's making it worse on the other side.
00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:08.639
For the guys that are like, look, I I I say all the time, I'm like, have you ever heard of appendix cancer?
00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:10.639
Either one of you guys, have you heard of appendix cancer?
00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:11.360
I never have, right?
00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:12.800
I never heard of appendix cancer.
00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:20.399
The same number of guys that get breast cancer are the number of people that are gonna get appendix cancer every year, right?
00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:25.600
I've never heard of appendix cancer, I've never been a part of a of a of an appendix cancer walk.
00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:32.480
I've never been a part of an, you know, I've never seen a uh uh whatever the appendix cancer ribbon is, I've never seen that, right?
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:40.879
So to be, I I feel incredibly blessed and lucky to be part of the pink bubble, even though it can be frustrating at times, right?
00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:48.160
Because at least I'm recognized, at least I'm part of a community, at least I have something to point at and say, yeah, I mean, that's me.
00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:55.199
And and while maybe, you know, 20% of that community doesn't want me in it, a large amount of people do.
00:05:55.360 --> 00:06:03.360
And so I have a place to be, and I have a place to hang my hat and say, Yeah, I mean, would I like the pink ribbon to have a little blue tail at the end?
00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:04.000
Sure.
00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:07.279
But you know, you know, does that diminish the mentality?
00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:12.399
I don't think I think with the younger generation, again, I see it in baseball a lot.
00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:15.920
I I see kids show up now with gloves that are hot pink.
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.399
They'll or they'll wear and kids wear pink.
00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.920
And and you know, Jess, you can vouch for this, and Jake, you as well.
00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:28.879
As a kid, when I was a kid, I'm sure when you were a kid, Jake, most boys you wouldn't see ever wear pink at all.
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:35.600
So I think that that in this regard, it's it's kind of a positive that they're being com they're being comfortable that it's
it's just a color.
00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:36.240
It's another color.
00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:41.439
It's just a color, it's not a it's not a gender identification, it's not anything else, it's just a color that I like.
00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:42.480
It's just a color.
00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:54.800
But I think that connected with that, there should be some education, you know, because I think I think to hit my age group and your age group of men, it's gonna be tough for a lot of these, a lot of guys to wrap their mind around.
00:06:54.879 --> 00:07:00.560
Again, for me, I don't care what color, what if they tell me I got cancer, okay, that's what I got, let's go fix it.
00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:01.759
I don't care what it's called.
00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:08.319
But I I really think that there should be some education on the fact that, hey, you know, uh breast cancer is for men and for women.
00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:26.560
Men have breast tissue, you know, and it it's uh it's something that as people understand that more and more, and it's not a gender-related thing, they'll start to realize that that term breast will have a a lesser connection to just female.
00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:30.240
It'll be where I think that where this will, I think where this starts.
00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:36.879
Unfortunately, you get it's gonna take 50 years literally to get through an entire generational cycle.
00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:40.959
But where this starts is literally sixth grade health class, right?
00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:45.600
In sixth grade health class, girls are taught, you find a lump, you go tell somebody.
00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:48.160
That's literally taught in health class, right?
00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:50.079
And boys are never taught that, right?
00:07:50.240 --> 00:08:12.959
And and so if you go back and start literally at the current whatever health class, you know, whatever health is taught nowadays, and you start putting that in the curriculum, then yeah, 50 years from now, the entire generation will have been taught that just in the same way, you know, before the 1960s, girls and women were never taught that, you know, to you find a lump, you go tell somebody, right?
00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.199
So this takes a long time, but you're right.
00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:26.879
I think the the the education, the health education system, I think, you know, making I've had lots of friends that have because of what I'm going through, they get a little bit freaked out.
00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:30.879
So, you know, they go into their primary care, you know, visit once a year.
00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:38.480
I had a guy go in just about two months ago to to go get and he asked for a a breast exam so that he knew how to do it himself.
00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:42.879
Yeah, he goes, I don't he goes, I can see the YouTube, but can you just show me here?
00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.240
And the doctor actually refused to do it.
00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:51.919
And he said, and he
said, Male breast cancer is not a thing, or it's at least rare enough that you don't have to worry about it.
00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:58.799
And my friend said, Well, that's fine, but my my buddy has stage four breast cancer, and he goes, Well, he's an outlier.
00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:01.120
And he he then refused to show him again.
00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:07.279
He literally gave him a women's breast health exam pamphlet and said, just go home and do this.
00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.559
But they like that's the pervasiveness in healthcare.
00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:15.840
Like it's it's not just it's not just it's only rare if you don't have it.
00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:22.879
I mean, if you're you're if you're the one in the 700, you I don't care what the rarity of it is because I have it.
00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:23.360
You know what I mean?
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:24.480
I have it, yeah.
00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:24.960
Right.
00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.039
And I think uh no, I think you're right.
00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:44.320
I think that that the education has to get out there, and I think that people have to, you know, start, like I said, if if they could come up with a different name, and I I totally get your point too, because I really do think I think that people put way too much importance in labels and colors and and what this you know means or that means, right?
00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:46.879
Um especially when it comes to your health.
00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:54.000
Um, but at the same time, I know it's probably it's probably keeping people from getting tested, and that kind of leads me to my next thing.
00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:59.440
Now, you kind of have a a funny story as to how you basically detected yours.
00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:06.000
Now, when your friend did that to you, was it a sharp pain just in the one the one side of your chest?
00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:08.000
Was it across your chest, or what was that?
00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:16.080
Yeah, I mean, it is a I mean when you have when you have a um when you have something going on there, like it was all connected.
00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:26.080
So my lump was actually connected to my to my there was a the tumor was literally behind my nipple, which is why it dropped me to the ground, right?
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:38.639
But there are you know it it you know when they when you talk about the the the visual signs of breast cancer, it's when you look up female or male, it's the same thing, right?
00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:46.799
It's sort of a dimpling of the nipple, or you know, certain things, it it's just human anatomy will do the exact same thing.
00:10:46.960 --> 00:11:12.960
So there's all kinds of you know, simple checks that you know, there's a million resources online to go and find that would would sort of show you, but at the end of the day, you know, I I you know I've done some funny TikToks and stuff like that with you know, talking to women, because again, women are most of my audience, but
I'm like, hey, you know, I would be willing to bet that during happy time you're touching your man's chest a lot more than he is.
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:17.279
And so if you find a lump, you need to tell him like those kinds of things, right?
00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:30.879
This is a you know, everybody that's involved with the men's health, because uh uh I try to go back and I try to remember, did I know that guys could get breast cancer before March of or September of 2003, 23?
00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:32.559
I I don't know.
00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:39.600
I don't I don't I mean it's obviously you know not just my diagnosis now, but I've chosen to make it my entire life, right?
00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:50.639
I spent so now I obviously do, but I try to go back and remember like, did I know that guys could have breast cancer in in you know July of 23?
00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:52.080
I don't think I did.
00:11:52.240 --> 00:12:09.679
And so I think you're right, education is key because if a guy in sixth grade hears that men can get breast cancer, when that guy is 50, somebody will have told him once, and that synapse will fire, and he may not wait six months, right?
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:17.679
And maybe in 50 years, when we get all this through the healthcare education system, there'll be a almost an immediate thing, like just like women.
00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:18.879
Oh, I found a lump.
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.000
I'm literally gonna talk to somebody because that's a scary thing.
00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:26.799
Right now, it's not as scare as scary as it needs to be for most children.
00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:31.039
And Jake, you know, I gotta say, I I really appreciate what you're doing as a male.
00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:37.120
I think that this is great that in a mission that you've turned something that's obviously very negative.
00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:49.279
I mean, it's it's you know, I don't think anybody would ever look at cancer as a positive, but what you're doing to make people aware of it and and make men specifically aware that that hey, we're uh susceptible to this as well.
00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:50.799
I think it's it's incredible.
00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:52.639
Um to our listeners out there.
00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.960
I mean, there there may be a lot of listeners right now that that are learning this for the first time.
00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:12.240
Um, men and women, what is there any um advice you'd give in terms of self-testing or you know, a that that I know for uh for prostate for men, but they say at age 40 you should be getting checked every single year.
00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:14.799
And obviously that's a very uncomfortable test.
00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:22.720
You know, uh I think that this this test maybe is a little less invasive and and so but yeah, it's not great.
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:32.639
Well, but how how would you you know what would you recommend to men and women out there in terms of age, in terms of self-test, in terms of checking?
00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:34.080
What how would you go about doing that?
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:35.519
I would say this.
00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:45.039
And this may be going against a lot of what the regular breast cancer orgs are doing, but I'm also a realist in what guys are actually gonna do, right?
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:46.639
Because I consider myself a guy, right?
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:52.320
You can tell people that, you know, feel it on the first, because the first of the month is supposed to be breast self-exam month.
00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:57.039
I've had breast cancer for two and a half years, and I think I felt it on the first maybe three times, right?
00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.320
My other breast that still has, you know, tissue there, right?
00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:05.200
You know, I'm not gonna remember to do breast self-exams all the time, right?
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.039
It's just not gonna be in my wheelhouse.
00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:08.240
And I have breast cancer.
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:14.080
I think the biggest thing for people to understand is that guys can get it.
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.080
And that's sort of my entire mission.
00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:23.039
I'm not going down the rabbit hole of early detection or all of these other things, because those things are important, right?
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:23.600
I get it.
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:31.360
But we are, and I say we as in men, we are dealing with, we are at the very beginning of this advocacy.
00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.600
We are 70 years behind women.
00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:36.879
We are at the point where we are going, hey guys can get breast cancer.
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:38.080
And people are like, wait, what?
00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:39.600
Like that that's a thing.
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:52.720
And so to keep on pounding that train and to keep on making sure that you know the there there's some research dollars going towards male breast cancer or or anything like that.
00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:04.720
I think the biggest thing that if you ask me what people can do, I'm gonna tell you right now, guys are not gonna start doing self-breast exams in the first because testicular cancer is a fur is a real thing, right?
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:09.039
Do do guys check check that, you know, in the ways that they're supposed to be doing every month?
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:10.000
No, they just don't.
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:10.960
And I and I know that.
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:14.320
So breast cancer is gonna even be either further on the backburn.
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:25.360
It is a place that we just need people to either A acknowledge that male breast cancer is a thing and stop fighting against the fact that it that it's not, right?
00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:28.320
You know, because they're in their opinion that we shouldn't be recognized.
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:29.840
That's where I think we're at.
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:35.679
It is just a general, broad-based campaign that, hey, you know, that's what I do on my social.
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.000
Hey, guys can get breast cancer, and then I sort of back away.
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:42.480
Nobody's going on TikTok to get bummed out by the guy with stage four breast cancer.
00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:44.720
Nobody wants these deep dives into all these things.
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:56.960
I'm just gonna tell you something with humor or with you know, with something like that, and be like, okay, yeah, and guys can get breast cancer, and then I'm gonna back off because that's literally all the message that most of the American public are willing to take on the subject right now.
00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:57.840
So that's it.
00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:11.440
It is literally telling that story and people going, okay, and storing that in their in their head so that 30 years from now, some synapse will fire where they don't wait those six months, because that's the that's the actual part.
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:17.919
That would I be stage four now if I had gone earlier and I had not delayed treatment and all the things?
00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:23.759
There's a significant amount of evidence that points to the fact that I would not be stage four.
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:32.240
So even if you are using this as a lesson, find a lump and go talk to somebody because yeah, it can progress really quickly.
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:36.240
So is that the only symptom that you would uh just again?
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.879
Because I'm kind of ignorant to some of this, you know.
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:44.799
So if if somebody were to find a lump, that's kind of an obvious symptom that this is something different.
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.000
Um, what about is uh is there sensitivity to the nipple?
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:48.720
Is there is there pain?
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.279
Yeah, I mean there's a little bit of pain, there's sensitivity.
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:54.799
Yeah, those things, I mean you're gonna know you notice those those things.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:56.799
That's the time to find it for a little while.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:03.279
Every time like a like a bed sheet would graze across it, I was like, ah, like like it's not normal, right?
00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:04.559
And so you're gonna know.
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.720
It's gonna be something, it's not gonna be something that you're like, well, you're gonna know.
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:12.480
I mean, it's just gonna, you know, it you'll know.
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.640
And and and even if you think it's that, then you know, go get it checked out.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:20.240
I tell people, look, it's never gonna hurt to go get it checked out.
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:25.599
Until next time, keep looking forward because progress is always just ahead.