บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ The Sequence: Inside the Making of an Horror Short Film with Joe Bandelli | & Hell House LLC 10th Anniversary

that i really added from the script phase 00:03:47.050 --> 00:03:51.169 uh was brian had one or two things that had like 00:03:51.169 --> 00:03:53.969 a repetitive sound, like maybe the clock ticking 00:03:53.969 --> 00:03:56.530 or something. And I really thought that that 00:03:56.530 --> 00:03:59.110 would be really unnerving to kind of use sound 00:03:59.110 --> 00:04:01.469 design and use sound to drive us through the 00:04:01.469 --> 00:04:04.550 opening sequence of the movie. And so my suggestion 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:06.849 to him was to do another rewrite on it. I kind 00:04:06.849 --> 00:04:08.810 of gave him an idea of what I think should go 00:04:08.810 --> 00:04:11.409 where. And that's kind of how you saw the opening 00:04:11.409 --> 00:04:13.250 like minute and a half of the movie, the opening 00:04:13.250 --> 00:04:15.930 dream sequence. That was kind of like a big inspiration 00:04:15.930 --> 00:04:19.009 for me in terms of giving that to Brian. But 00:04:19.009 --> 00:04:20.629 it was honestly, it was a true collaboration 00:04:20.629 --> 00:04:22.589 with him as well as for the rest of the crew 00:04:22.589 --> 00:04:25.310 because no one really got like their feelings 00:04:25.310 --> 00:04:27.649 hurt or got shut down. It was like, hey, that's 00:04:27.649 --> 00:04:29.730 a cool idea. This doesn't work. Let's try this 00:04:29.730 --> 00:04:32.189 and so on and so forth. So I'd say that's probably 00:04:32.189 --> 00:04:34.550 the biggest one. And then the second is there's 00:04:34.550 --> 00:04:36.839 a shot in the movie. That's kind of like the 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:38.980 culmination shot. We call it the lazy Susan shot. 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:41.319 And in the script, it was written in there twice. 00:04:41.379 --> 00:04:43.079 It was in the dream sequence and it was in the 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:46.980 reality sequence. And I, when we started like 00:04:46.980 --> 00:04:50.100 testing and started to like put together how 00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:52.540 we're going to shoot that, I felt very strongly 00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:54.819 that we shouldn't do it twice in the movie and 00:04:54.819 --> 00:04:57.519 that we should do it once. And, and I think Brian 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.120 initially had reservations about that, but when 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:01.779 I sort of explained to him and got through to 00:05:01.779 --> 00:05:03.819 him, like, Hey, listen, if we see a sequence 00:05:03.819 --> 00:05:06.939 like that play out. And I'm being vague purposely 00:05:06.939 --> 00:05:08.220 because I want people to go watch the movie. 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:12.000 But if we see a sequence play out like that in 00:05:12.290 --> 00:05:14.889 the dream sequence, when we get to reality, if 00:05:14.889 --> 00:05:16.990 the camera starts moving in the exact same way, 00:05:17.029 --> 00:05:19.269 which is a very unique way of how we move the 00:05:19.269 --> 00:05:21.250 camera. Everyone is going to know what's going 00:05:21.250 --> 00:05:23.629 to happen within two seconds of that shot starting. 00:05:23.810 --> 00:05:26.430 And so I wanted to kind of get rid of the original 00:05:26.430 --> 00:05:29.089 one and sort of create a different shot of how 00:05:29.089 --> 00:05:31.389 I would do kind of the play out of the dream 00:05:31.389 --> 00:05:33.850 sequence or how the dream ends. That way we can 00:05:33.850 --> 00:05:35.629 kind of save and hold on to this kind of really 00:05:35.629 --> 00:05:38.310 cool shot that sort of was the culmination of 00:05:38.310 --> 00:05:41.269 what happens in reality. When you started the 00:05:41.269 --> 00:05:43.170 script and when you started reading the script 00:05:43.170 --> 00:05:46.040 itself, was the nightmare concept? there the 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:47.639 entire time which has something when you guys 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.199 yeah yeah yeah i mean the basic concept of the 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:52.379 movie is a woman has a dream or is a nightmare 00:05:52.379 --> 00:05:55.199 that she poisons and murders her entire family 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:57.819 and kills herself and then as she wakes up from 00:05:57.819 --> 00:05:59.959 her dream and as she starts to go about her day 00:05:59.959 --> 00:06:03.100 moments from her dream start creeping in reality 00:06:03.100 --> 00:06:06.060 and she does everything she possibly can to try 00:06:06.060 --> 00:06:07.980 to make sure that this nightmare does not become 00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:11.550 reality but why did you choose to at least like 00:06:11.550 --> 00:06:14.089 shoot that or explore that fear throughout horror 00:06:14.089 --> 00:06:16.850 it could have been any other genre but why horror 00:06:16.850 --> 00:06:19.050 necessarily i mean i mean yeah i mean well for 00:06:19.050 --> 00:06:21.350 starters i mean that's kind of like the sub -genre 00:06:21.350 --> 00:06:22.970 that i've been working in for a genre that i've 00:06:22.970 --> 00:06:25.170 been working in for years and and honestly like 00:06:25.170 --> 00:06:28.129 i saw it more like the themes that i really were 00:06:28.129 --> 00:06:30.589 was attracted to in the story was stuff that 00:06:30.589 --> 00:06:32.529 wasn't literally written in the text it was more 00:06:32.529 --> 00:06:35.550 of the subtext and so one big thing for me is 00:06:35.550 --> 00:06:39.680 i think when you The mother has a, the main character, 00:06:39.899 --> 00:06:42.620 Taylor, she has a husband and she has two kids, 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.579 a teenage son and a younger daughter. And so 00:06:46.579 --> 00:06:48.899 when you introduce horror elements with kids, 00:06:49.060 --> 00:06:51.259 number one, it's always creepy. And number two, 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:53.220 there's a lot of things that people will say. 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:55.339 They say it with a dog, like don't kill a dog 00:06:55.339 --> 00:06:56.959 in the movie, you'll lose your audience. But 00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:59.019 with kids, it's

also kind of similar. It's like, 00:06:59.060 --> 00:07:00.860 how far are you willing to push that? Where are 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:03.500 you willing to go? And Brian had a very clear, 00:07:03.579 --> 00:07:07.850 like, I want to do this. I've been finding problems 00:07:07.850 --> 00:07:10.269 and having trouble with people who also want 00:07:10.269 --> 00:07:13.290 to do this. And when him and I had that conversation, 00:07:13.550 --> 00:07:15.970 I was like, yeah, for me, there's no limits. 00:07:16.009 --> 00:07:18.550 If it supports the story and it actually makes 00:07:18.550 --> 00:07:20.709 for a better story, I'm down to do whatever, 00:07:20.850 --> 00:07:24.170 no matter how terrifying it is. And to me, I 00:07:24.170 --> 00:07:26.870 think one, the biggest thing that I pulled away 00:07:26.870 --> 00:07:28.329 from the whole thing, the biggest thing that 00:07:28.329 --> 00:07:31.240 I wanted to convey to people is. There's so much 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:33.720 going on in this woman's head. There's so much 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:35.439 backstory. There's so many things that we barely 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:37.759 even touched on in the short. But the biggest 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:40.699 thing is, as she's dealing with her own problems 00:07:40.699 --> 00:07:42.540 and as she's dealing with things, she's in a 00:07:42.540 --> 00:07:44.420 way neglecting her family and she's neglecting 00:07:44.420 --> 00:07:46.920 her children. And communication, I've always 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:49.259 been, in every relationship I'm in, I mean, every 00:07:49.259 --> 00:07:51.199 girl I've ever dated, as well as my wife, if 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:52.439 they heard this, they'd probably be like, yeah, 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:54.560 Justin, shut up about his feelings. Communication 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.509 is key. And I think... in a world that kind of 00:07:57.509 --> 00:07:59.589 has a lot of chaos going on there's a lot of 00:07:59.589 --> 00:08:03.290 polarizing opinions politics are insane if you 00:08:03.290 --> 00:08:05.389 can't dislike or like something you have to hate 00:08:05.389 --> 00:08:07.509 it and love it like there's all these like things 00:08:07.509 --> 00:08:10.629 that happen we try to protect our kids and we 00:08:10.629 --> 00:08:13.480 try to protect the youth and i think that's not 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:16.879 the right way about going to raise the next generation 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:19.560 of people. It's you need to communicate with 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:21.160 them and you need to treat them like they're 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:23.579 adults, even though they're kids at times. And 00:08:23.579 --> 00:08:25.360 so communication was a big thing for me. And 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:27.600 I really wanted to kind of talk about, in essence, 00:08:27.819 --> 00:08:31.100 what's the worst possible case scenario of what 00:08:31.100 --> 00:08:33.059 happens when a mom does not communicate with 00:08:33.059 --> 00:08:36.179 her kids? Well, like we said, the film does deal 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:38.879 with a lot of emotional elements. You have the 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.320 grief, the isolation, you have emotional. This 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:45.080 connection that you kind of see in the relationship. 00:08:45.299 --> 00:08:47.220 I'm not going to say which one, because I feel 00:08:47.220 --> 00:08:50.179 like there's two key relationships there that 00:08:50.179 --> 00:08:53.480 kind of, I would say, move the story forward. 00:08:53.559 --> 00:08:56.139 Even with some of the twists, you still see how 00:08:56.139 --> 00:08:59.200 a relationship affects. Right. And you have the 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:03.360 inability or unwillingness to communicate. Like 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:06.639 you said, communication is a big part of why 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:09.360 this is happening. But were you interested in 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:11.679 the idea that sometimes the things that happen, 00:09:12.210 --> 00:09:14.490 inside someone's head can be more frightening 00:09:14.490 --> 00:09:16.129 than anything that's happening supernatural. 00:09:16.610 --> 00:09:19.710 Yeah, absolutely. And I think at the end of the 00:09:19.710 --> 00:09:24.080 day, I think if you, any person, I have a one 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.840 -year -old now, so I kind of know what it's like, 00:09:26.940 --> 00:09:29.500 but any person who's a parent will tell you like 00:09:29.500 --> 00:09:32.620 before they had kids, they might've been scared 00:09:32.620 --> 00:09:35.240 of clowns or spiders or whatever. And now that 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:37.059 they have kids, they might still be scared of 00:09:37.059 --> 00:09:39.200 those things. But if you ask most of them, what's 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:40.820 the worst thing that could possibly happen to 00:09:40.820 --> 00:09:43.009 you? It's something happening to them. kids yeah 00:09:43.009 --> 00:09:46.049 i i again i think beautifully written by brian 00:09:46.049 --> 00:09:49.289 and the way we kind of put it together i think 00:09:49.289 --> 00:09:53.250 the movie talks a lot about things that parents 00:09:53.250 --> 00:09:56.230 go through or couples go through when they have 00:09:56.230 --> 00:09:58.789 kids a lot of those struggles so to me it always 00:09:58.789 --> 00:10:01.529 felt very relatable and i made this movie before 00:10:01.529 --> 00:10:04.710 i had kids but then obviously had a kid and my 00:10:04.710 --> 00:10:06.669 wife and i she got pregnant and so on and so 00:10:06.669 --> 00:10:08.929 forth so i got to live through a lot of this 00:10:08.929 --> 00:10:10.830 experience of being like oh my god my life is 00:10:10.830 --> 00:10:14.129 no longer mine it's for my son or it's for whatever 00:10:14.129 --> 00:10:17.350 person has what kids or not i think that the 00:10:17.350 --> 00:10:19.269 there are a lot of really interesting themes 00:10:19.269 --> 00:10:22.429 and like themes like isolation and grief every

00:10:22.429 --> 00:10:24.889 person goes through that so i think one of the 00:10:24.889 --> 00:10:26.830 best parts about horror and why i usually love 00:10:26.830 --> 00:10:30.049 horror so much is because Horror is a genre that 00:10:30.049 --> 00:10:32.909 usually gets to tackle all emotions, whereas 00:10:32.909 --> 00:10:35.149 certain genres only tackle one or two emotions. 00:10:35.370 --> 00:10:38.570 And I think usually the best horror are things 00:10:38.570 --> 00:10:41.509 that touch on things that almost every single 00:10:41.509 --> 00:10:44.169 person can experience or has experienced. And 00:10:44.169 --> 00:10:45.870 so that was something that I saw in the script 00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:48.350 and I really wanted to kind of make sure it came 00:10:48.350 --> 00:10:50.830 through to fruition as we were filming the movie 00:10:50.830 --> 00:10:52.490 and as it was put together in post -production. 00:10:53.389 --> 00:10:58.029 How easy was it to balance the psychological 00:10:58.029 --> 00:11:01.610 and the emotional side with the horror because 00:11:01.610 --> 00:11:03.549 it was well balanced again for something that 00:11:03.549 --> 00:11:06.269 happens so much in such a short time it's pretty 00:11:06.269 --> 00:11:08.789 well balanced yeah i mean that with some with 00:11:08.789 --> 00:11:11.149 a short film specifically like you don't have 00:11:11.149 --> 00:11:13.429 a lot of time to like really create like a full 00:11:13.429 --> 00:11:15.309 -on beginning middle and end you don't have a 00:11:15.309 --> 00:11:17.889 good you don't have enough time to really pull 00:11:17.889 --> 00:11:21.289 on the strings and kind of get to all the characters 00:11:21.289 --> 00:11:23.429 arcs like you might get to one or two of them 00:11:23.429 --> 00:11:25.649 and usually in horror it's usually you have one 00:11:25.649 --> 00:11:28.210 or two really good scare sequences and that's 00:11:28.210 --> 00:11:29.870 kind of how you would get a short film across 00:11:29.870 --> 00:11:34.009 so i mean listen it's it's the thing that i love 00:11:34.009 --> 00:11:36.250 doing i've been doing it for 15 years so this 00:11:36.250 --> 00:11:38.629 is home to me so it wasn't i'm not going to say 00:11:38.629 --> 00:11:40.429 it wasn't hard because it absolutely was hard 00:11:40.429 --> 00:11:42.850 every every time you make a movie it's hard but 00:11:42.850 --> 00:11:46.950 it was it was pretty easy in terms of trying 00:11:46.950 --> 00:11:49.570 to find that balance of what should be tense, 00:11:49.769 --> 00:11:51.769 what shouldn't be tense, what should be unnerving. 00:11:51.809 --> 00:11:53.809 And like you said earlier, this is one of those 00:11:53.809 --> 00:11:56.250 movies that we really wanted to make it unnerving 00:11:56.250 --> 00:11:58.970 throughout the entire movie. There's really only 00:11:58.970 --> 00:12:00.789 one part in the movie that has a little bit of 00:12:00.789 --> 00:12:03.190 a laugh, and that happens almost exactly in the 00:12:03.190 --> 00:12:05.470 middle of the movie, purposely to kind of break 00:12:05.470 --> 00:12:07.970 the tension of you being like, oh my God, I'm 00:12:07.970 --> 00:12:09.870 so tense. You catch my breath, and then immediately 00:12:09.870 --> 00:12:12.519 it goes right back into the unnerving. Yeah, 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:14.820 but how important was it to at least keep the 00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:17.100 audience questioning what was actually happening? 00:12:17.500 --> 00:12:20.919 Yeah, listen, in essence, we're creating a whodunit 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:24.539 in a very, very unique way. And so I think that 00:12:24.539 --> 00:12:26.100 was always something that was really important. 00:12:26.299 --> 00:12:32.779 There were a lot of shots that we did not use 00:12:32.779 --> 00:12:36.399 in the final cut of the movie because those shots... 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.019 had certain characters coming across even more 00:12:39.019 --> 00:12:41.460 menacing or less menacing than we actually wanted 00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:43.500 the audience to kind of perceive them at that 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:45.340 given moment that was definitely like something 00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:49.120 that i think we we were very cautious of and 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.320 i i wanted to make sure that at no point in time 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:53.820 we were like tipping our hat going this is going 00:12:53.820 --> 00:12:55.860 to happen or this is going to happen like we 00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:57.879 really wanted the audience to be on their toes 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.860 throughout this entire film let's get a little 00:13:00.860 --> 00:13:02.919 bit into the directing because again it does 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:05.889 have some pretty amazing shots. And like you 00:13:05.889 --> 00:13:09.950 said, we didn't want to use one twice. And I 00:13:09.950 --> 00:13:12.029 wouldn't say it's so much of a spoiler, but it's 00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:14.370 a very interesting shot. But I want to start 00:13:14.370 --> 00:13:16.450 from the beginning of the directing process. 00:13:16.690 --> 00:13:19.350 What was the biggest challenge in directing this 00:13:19.350 --> 00:13:21.669 particular story? Yeah, so the biggest challenge, 00:13:21.690 --> 00:13:23.809 truthfully, was there was two of them. Number 00:13:23.809 --> 00:13:25.970 one, that lazy Susan shot that culminates at 00:13:25.970 --> 00:13:27.549 the end of the movie. That was such a difficult 00:13:27.549 --> 00:13:30.409 shot because Not only is this an independent 00:13:30.409 --> 00:13:33.409 film, a low budget film, a short film, you don't 00:13:33.409 --> 00:13:35.029 have a lot of time. And especially when you get 00:13:35.029 --> 00:13:37.289 really good caliber actors like we got in this, 00:13:37.370 --> 00:13:41.169 like Katie Parker was incredible. Braxton, who 00:13:41.169 --> 00:13:43.190 played her teenage son, is awesome in it. Our 00:13:43.190 --> 00:13:45.450 little

girl Sloane is great. Every person we 00:13:45.450 --> 00:13:48.169 had in this was phenomenal. And so when you get 00:13:48.169 --> 00:13:50.889 a higher caliber cast or people who can like 00:13:50.889 --> 00:13:53.620 bring their A game from moment one. you usually 00:13:53.620 --> 00:13:55.500 don't have a ton of time with them. You have 00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:57.399 your shoot days with them. And we didn't have 00:13:57.399 --> 00:13:59.340 any prep days with them. So we didn't have any 00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:00.860 rehearsal time or anything like that. And I'm 00:14:00.860 --> 00:14:04.019 big on rehearsing. So that sequence for that 00:14:04.019 --> 00:14:08.080 technical shot, we did, like I had my cinematographer 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.799 and his team build that setup multiple times 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.759 over multiple days and really work on getting 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:15.740 it down. And my whole mantra when I was talking 00:14:15.740 --> 00:14:18.519 with Jonathan about it was, listen, on the day 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:22.090 of when we do that shot, you need to be as the 00:14:22.090 --> 00:14:24.370 most consistent person in terms of how you're 00:14:24.370 --> 00:14:25.870 operating the camera and how you're moving it 00:14:25.870 --> 00:14:29.730 around the table. Because I am going to be dealing 00:14:29.730 --> 00:14:31.870 with a child actor. I'm going to be dealing with 00:14:31.870 --> 00:14:34.350 three other actors who have their own opinions 00:14:34.350 --> 00:14:36.250 on how they want to do things and how they want 00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:38.350 their characters to come across. And we don't 00:14:38.350 --> 00:14:39.970 have a ton of time in the day. We're dealing 00:14:39.970 --> 00:14:42.190 with special effects. We're dealing with blood 00:14:42.190 --> 00:14:44.190 and vomit, dealing with a bunch of things there. 00:14:44.250 --> 00:14:46.710 So the camera movements needed to be perfect 00:14:46.710 --> 00:14:49.330 and needed to be down because... everything else 00:14:49.330 --> 00:14:51.730 was going to happen and you never know exactly 00:14:51.730 --> 00:14:53.330 what how things are going to play out when you're 00:14:53.330 --> 00:14:55.750 on set so for me it was like rehearse the out 00:14:55.750 --> 00:14:58.929 of the thing that you you need to nail because 00:14:58.929 --> 00:15:01.230 the other variables are kind of like you don't 00:15:01.230 --> 00:15:02.629 know what's going to happen with those things 00:15:02.629 --> 00:15:04.710 that was probably the biggest challenge i would 00:15:04.710 --> 00:15:08.009 say the second biggest challenge is brian his 00:15:08.009 --> 00:15:11.070 original script for this was about 30 35 pages 00:15:11.070 --> 00:15:14.250 long and when i read the script i was like this 00:15:14.250 --> 00:15:17.730 is great but We need to lose some of this stuff 00:15:17.730 --> 00:15:20.850 because we can't have a 35 minute short film. 00:15:20.970 --> 00:15:22.970 You're not getting into festivals. No one's going 00:15:22.970 --> 00:15:25.470 to watch this. You need as short of a possible 00:15:25.470 --> 00:15:27.450 as a film. And I realized we were tackling a 00:15:27.450 --> 00:15:28.990 lot of themes and a lot of stuff. So I knew it 00:15:28.990 --> 00:15:30.850 wasn't going to be like a two minute film. So 00:15:30.850 --> 00:15:32.769 I was able to kind of work with him to get the 00:15:32.769 --> 00:15:36.129 script cut down to roughly 22 pages. And even 00:15:36.129 --> 00:15:38.769 the 22 pages that we shot, we cut a lot of it. 00:15:38.909 --> 00:15:41.370 And I think the biggest thing from script to 00:15:41.370 --> 00:15:43.710 reality that changed was the dream sequence. 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:46.679 The dream sequence itself was written linearly. 00:15:47.019 --> 00:15:49.659 So each one of those sequences that you see in 00:15:49.659 --> 00:15:51.659 the opening of the movie was played out from 00:15:51.659 --> 00:15:54.500 like point A to point B to point C. Next segment, 00:15:54.580 --> 00:15:57.299 point A, point B, point C. And I always felt 00:15:57.299 --> 00:16:00.320 off. Something felt off about that. Not in the 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.460 right way, but I couldn't really put my finger 00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:04.679 on it. And when we shot it and we put it together, 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.299 I wanted to give Brian and our other producer, 00:16:07.379 --> 00:16:10.600 Chris, I wanted to give them a rough cut of what 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:13.789 the movie looked like. based on how the script 00:16:13.789 --> 00:16:16.210 is written. And so I gave them this rough cut 00:16:16.210 --> 00:16:18.470 and both of them were like, something is off 00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:20.669 about the opening. And I was like, great, let 00:16:20.669 --> 00:16:24.090 me and my editor, Nick, work on it. And so the 00:16:24.090 --> 00:16:27.190 whole thing for Nick and I was, you know, I'm 00:16:27.190 --> 00:16:29.370 not a big fan of experimental films. For me, 00:16:29.450 --> 00:16:31.110 if you don't like found footage films, that's 00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:32.789 where I would say experimental films are for 00:16:32.789 --> 00:16:34.789 me. I just don't like when people, I feel like 00:16:34.789 --> 00:16:37.149 experiment on their own time, not on other people's 00:16:37.149 --> 00:16:39.639 time. And by all means, it's just my opinion. 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.899 If anyone does films, they could tell me to go 00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:44.759 fuck myself. But for me, I don't usually have 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:46.679 a great experience or response to an experimental 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:49.220 film. But one of the things that I kept saying 00:16:49.220 --> 00:16:53.419 to Nick in post -production was, let's cut the 00:16:53.419 --> 00:16:56.759 dream sequence as if the audience is going to 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:58.659 think they're about to watch an experimental 00:16:58.659 --> 00:17:02.309

film. Like there you see a very like weird imagery, 00:17:02.370 --> 00:17:05.670 imagery driven, like all over the place, jump 00:17:05.670 --> 00:17:09.869 cuts, like weird, strange thing so that it culminates 00:17:09.869 --> 00:17:12.170 in this moment, this horrific moment. And then 00:17:12.170 --> 00:17:14.789 boom, we're back. We're in real life and everything 00:17:14.789 --> 00:17:16.809 is linear moving forward. And that was really 00:17:16.809 --> 00:17:18.430 important for me. Number one, because I think 00:17:18.430 --> 00:17:20.490 when you think you're watching something and 00:17:20.490 --> 00:17:22.089 then you realize you're watching something else, 00:17:22.130 --> 00:17:23.710 I think that's always a jarring moment. And that's 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:25.549 how I wanted the audience to feel. And number 00:17:25.549 --> 00:17:28.990 two. When I dream, I don't dream linearly. I 00:17:28.990 --> 00:17:30.730 don't dream from point A to point B to point 00:17:30.730 --> 00:17:33.210 C. Like it's all over the place. It's like, you'll 00:17:33.210 --> 00:17:34.490 be walking down the street and then all of a 00:17:34.490 --> 00:17:35.930 sudden you're in the water. And then all of a 00:17:35.930 --> 00:17:38.109 sudden you're on a plane. That for me was really 00:17:38.109 --> 00:17:39.809 important with the dream sequence. And so when 00:17:39.809 --> 00:17:41.730 we recut it together and I showed it to Brian 00:17:41.730 --> 00:17:44.210 and Chris, they were like, this is it. The dream 00:17:44.210 --> 00:17:47.569 sequence really sets off the movie. It really 00:17:47.569 --> 00:17:49.329 puts you already in a headspace where you're 00:17:49.329 --> 00:17:51.190 like, okay, anything can happen from this point 00:17:51.190 --> 00:17:53.940 on. Given the fact that, again, it's 14 minutes 00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:56.700 and you have so much information and so much 00:17:56.700 --> 00:18:00.119 emotion packed into that, when you decided what 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.680 wasn't going to make the cut, what did you want 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.180 to leave out or what did you want the audience 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:09.500 to figure out as they went along? Well, so because 00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:13.319 Brian wrote things cinematically, a lot of the 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:16.220 shots that I chose to use were Dali -inspired. 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:18.599 So we used a lot of Dali throughout this entire 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.809 movie. and anyone who knows dollies or you could 00:18:21.809 --> 00:18:24.630 do a fast dolly dolly but for the most part dolly 00:18:24.630 --> 00:18:27.630 shots take a long time if you have like one section 00:18:27.630 --> 00:18:30.029 where you're going through something and you 00:18:30.029 --> 00:18:32.450 just need to convey we're moving up to the front 00:18:32.450 --> 00:18:34.650 door and you see an image in the window like 00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:37.769 in your head and on script that's two sentences 00:18:37.769 --> 00:18:39.809 so that's a sentence but when you're actually 00:18:39.809 --> 00:18:43.599 playing that out that's 45 seconds 60 seconds 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:46.220 and like having the whole dream sequence i think 00:18:46.220 --> 00:18:49.059 is a minute and 20 seconds long so if one shot 00:18:49.059 --> 00:18:51.640 of like the 45 shots that we have in the dream 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:54.980 sequence was 45 seconds long the dream sequence 00:18:54.980 --> 00:18:56.700 is going to be like a whole short film in itself 00:18:56.700 --> 00:18:58.700 and so that that was kind of one of the things 00:18:58.700 --> 00:19:00.119 where i was like yeah this doesn't make sense 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.160 i want to kind of like rework this and see it 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:05.019 the way my brain has saw it which is like all 00:19:05.019 --> 00:19:07.480 over the place yeah yesterday when i was watching 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:10.670 it i also realized and it's probably one of the 00:19:10.670 --> 00:19:14.500 most unnerving horror that I see is when everything 00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:17.400 in the surface looks so clean. So you have just 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.440 a clean house, a perfect family, like the American 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:22.619 beauty situation. And then all of a sudden you 00:19:22.619 --> 00:19:26.440 have all this, I wouldn't say gore, but grotesque 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:29.460 moments within the same film. And it's like, 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:31.960 yeah, over on the surface is everything is shiny. 00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:34.980 And then right under that is so there's a belly 00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:37.920 under that. And it's so odd. But one point I 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:39.710 thought this was going to be. an apocalyptic 00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:41.990 film because it felt like you're being watched 00:19:41.990 --> 00:19:44.990 at one point. And I was like, oh, come on, where's 00:19:44.990 --> 00:19:48.269 this going? And one thing that we did with my 00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:50.289 production designer, John, different John, we 00:19:50.289 --> 00:19:52.869 had two Johns, a production designer. John one, 00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:56.710 John two. So John two, one of the things that 00:19:56.710 --> 00:19:59.609 I did with him and I did with our wardrobe team 00:19:59.609 --> 00:20:03.789 and so on and so forth was I really wanted to 00:20:03.789 --> 00:20:05.809 mess with the color palette so that basically 00:20:06.460 --> 00:20:08.759 any time, the whole dream sequence is really 00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:11.119 cool. You're not getting any warm tones. You're 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.259 not getting any like feelings of hope throughout 00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:15.940 the dream. So basically the way I set it up was 00:20:15.940 --> 00:20:18.500 the whole dream sequence, except for one shot 00:20:18.500 --> 00:20:23.160 is all cool. And so once we get in reality, basically 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:25.740 the way I

kind of designed it with everyone was 00:20:25.740 --> 00:20:29.319 where the final sequence of the movie takes place 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:32.700 is the coolest place in terms of coloring in 00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:35.210 the movie. But as you get further and further 00:20:35.210 --> 00:20:39.750 and further away from that area, it gets warmer 00:20:39.750 --> 00:20:41.849 and warmer and warmer, almost in essence being 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:44.309 like there's more hope for this family surviving 00:20:44.309 --> 00:20:47.470 the further they get away from this room. But 00:20:47.470 --> 00:20:49.670 the further they get to it, the cooler it gets 00:20:49.670 --> 00:20:51.789 and starts to match what happens in the nightmare. 00:20:52.210 --> 00:20:56.029 And I have to say, for a short film, you mentioned 00:20:56.029 --> 00:20:58.849 that Brian wrote this very cinematic, and it 00:20:58.849 --> 00:21:01.210 does feel like that. It does feel very cinematic. 00:21:01.950 --> 00:21:05.170 It does feel like an actual feature film because, 00:21:05.230 --> 00:21:07.410 again, there's so much that you are exploring 00:21:07.410 --> 00:21:10.329 within those 14 minutes. But one thing that I 00:21:10.329 --> 00:21:13.309 wanted to ask was, how did you approach creating 00:21:13.309 --> 00:21:17.349 the atmosphere for the film without relying on 00:21:17.349 --> 00:21:20.490 conventional horror shortcuts? Yeah, color was 00:21:20.490 --> 00:21:23.670 number one. So color was probably the biggest 00:21:23.670 --> 00:21:26.430 thing that we did. Number two was the dolly shots 00:21:26.430 --> 00:21:29.670 and controlling the pacing. of how things work 00:21:29.670 --> 00:21:31.269 like certain things need to be fast like the 00:21:31.269 --> 00:21:32.990 dream sequence and i think the dream sequence 00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:34.970 works because the final shot in the dream sequence 00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:38.049 is not a fast shot it's a very very slow shot 00:21:38.049 --> 00:21:41.069 but you're watching all the chaos happen you're 00:21:41.069 --> 00:21:43.349 why and then you end on this tight close -up 00:21:43.349 --> 00:21:46.309 of this mom right before she does what she does 00:21:46.309 --> 00:21:49.390 and so it's really it's about finding peace the 00:21:49.390 --> 00:21:51.089 thing is a lot of times people always say like 00:21:51.089 --> 00:21:54.410 comedy is so difficult comedy and horror are 00:21:54.410 --> 00:21:57.049 the exact same thing the setup and punchline 00:21:57.049 --> 00:21:58.930 is the same thing as you set up in your scare 00:21:58.930 --> 00:22:01.490 you basically have to offset how you're doing 00:22:01.490 --> 00:22:03.509 things so if you have a lot of really slow things 00:22:03.509 --> 00:22:06.470 playing out the the scare comes with the fast 00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:09.769 thing or if you're doing things really fast the 00:22:09.769 --> 00:22:12.009 unnerving comes with the really slow thing so 00:22:12.490 --> 00:22:14.509 It's really about balancing the pacing throughout 00:22:14.509 --> 00:22:16.410 this whole thing. And that was probably one of 00:22:16.410 --> 00:22:19.130 the things that I really enjoyed doing and enjoyed 00:22:19.130 --> 00:22:21.450 working with our cast was figuring out how fast 00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:23.390 a scene needs to be or how slow a scene needs 00:22:23.390 --> 00:22:26.190 to be. Like Willie, who plays our exterminator 00:22:26.190 --> 00:22:27.950 in the movie, like those scenes had to be fast. 00:22:28.589 --> 00:22:31.250 he was brought in purposely for comedic relief. 00:22:31.470 --> 00:22:33.930 So him coming in was supposed to kind of offset 00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:35.869 the kind of unnerving feeling that you're feeling 00:22:35.869 --> 00:22:38.049 throughout the movie with this mom, Taylor. And 00:22:38.049 --> 00:22:40.809 then he's out. And as soon as he's out, it gets 00:22:40.809 --> 00:22:42.829 back to these long shots and these slow shots 00:22:42.829 --> 00:22:44.710 or whatever. And you're sort of building the 00:22:44.710 --> 00:22:47.210 tension of the day with that pacing. And yeah, 00:22:47.309 --> 00:22:48.990 it was a lot of fun to do. It was, and again. 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:52.319 As great as the writing was, it's all things. 00:22:52.420 --> 00:22:54.619 It's the cinematography. It's the camera department. 00:22:54.700 --> 00:22:57.039 It's the lighting team. It's how the production 00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:59.119 design and the art director are bringing things 00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:00.759 together to kind of make things pop here and 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:03.180 there. And then, yeah, one of my favorite collaborators 00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:06.720 is my editor, Nick Landa. And he really helped 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:08.940 customize some of the pacing to kind of really 00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:11.619 make this stuff feel really uneasy. Because like 00:23:11.619 --> 00:23:14.839 you said, the goal was to make people feel uneasy 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:18.549 the entire time. And it's funny because you also 00:23:18.549 --> 00:23:22.089 have a lot of, you know, using cinematic wording, 00:23:22.329 --> 00:23:24.970 to put it that way. You do have Chekhov's gun, 00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:27.150 but you have Chekhov's gun, you have Chekhov's 00:23:27.150 --> 00:23:29.730 knife, you have Chekhov's, you literally just 00:23:29.730 --> 00:23:32.230 took out Chekhov's entire house and you threw 00:23:32.230 --> 00:23:34.329 it out the window. And I was like, because at 00:23:34.329 --> 00:23:35.829 one point you're like, oh, it's going to happen 00:23:35.829 --> 00:23:37.369 with this. Oh, no, it's going to happen with 00:23:37.369 --> 00:23:39.549 that. And it's going to, so all the elements 00:23:39.549 --> 00:23:42.890 are there. And then they just become, it just 00:23:42.890 --> 00:23:45.190 all becomes one whole circle. And you're like, 00:23:45.250 --> 00:23:49.500 yeah, no, like. Everything was

meant to be and 00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:51.759 be used at the same time. It was actually pretty 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:53.859 interesting how it all came together. Well, thank 00:23:53.859 --> 00:23:56.900 you. But how was the thought behind the sequence 00:23:56.900 --> 00:24:00.240 itself, the movie? Was it always intended to 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.700 be a standalone short or was it a larger idea 00:24:03.700 --> 00:24:06.819 behind the film? So there's always been a larger 00:24:06.819 --> 00:24:09.740 idea behind the film. After we finished the short, 00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:11.779 Brian and I started kind of taking stabs at what 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:13.839 the feature should look like. He's writing it 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:15.460 right now. He's writing the feature length version. 00:24:15.579 --> 00:24:18.619 So we do have intentions of potentially making 00:24:18.619 --> 00:24:22.220 this into a feature. And there are a lot of those 00:24:22.220 --> 00:24:24.000 themes that we're talking about are things that 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.019 I wanted. I'm talking with him about putting 00:24:26.019 --> 00:24:28.279 into the feature or whatnot. But obviously with 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.299 like Taylor, for instance, this is Taylor's story. 00:24:30.460 --> 00:24:33.460 You see a picture. There's a backstory there. 00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:35.680 You see tension with her husband. There's a backstory 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:37.960 there. You see tension with her son. There's 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:39.779 a backstory there. In the feature -length version, 00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:42.099 you would get that. But I think one of the most 00:24:42.099 --> 00:24:45.400 interesting things is when you make a short film 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:48.940 that does the job that you intend for it, you 00:24:48.940 --> 00:24:52.380 really want to make sure that you're really careful 00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:54.240 with how you write it and how you perform the 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.579 feature because ultimately, you don't want your 00:24:56.579 --> 00:25:00.049 feature to just be... an extended version of 00:25:00.049 --> 00:25:02.930 what the short is you want to be able to extend 00:25:02.930 --> 00:25:05.670 the short but you want to expand on other elements 00:25:05.670 --> 00:25:07.910 of the short and make those become bigger parts 00:25:07.910 --> 00:25:09.670 of the story and it's definitely challenging 00:25:09.670 --> 00:25:12.849 because do you have multiple dream sequences 00:25:12.849 --> 00:25:14.950 does everyone have a nightmare does you you can 00:25:14.950 --> 00:25:17.009 go to like 100 different places so we've been 00:25:17.009 --> 00:25:18.849 pitching ideas back and forth for a while now 00:25:18.849 --> 00:25:20.690 and we kind of have somewhat of an idea where 00:25:20.690 --> 00:25:22.589 i think we're going and brian's working on that 00:25:22.589 --> 00:25:26.289 now i want to move a little bit from The sequence, 00:25:26.309 -->

00:25:28.609 but not entirely because you can see a lot of 00:25:28.609 --> 00:25:31.789 yourself. Here in the film, it's one of the things 00:25:31.789 --> 00:25:34.789 I find interesting about your career is how you've 00:25:34.789 --> 00:25:38.329 experienced from both sides. Like you said, you've 00:25:38.329 --> 00:25:41.730 done indie filmmaking in the past and you've 00:25:41.730 --> 00:25:43.569 experienced both sides of indie filmmaking. You've 00:25:43.569 --> 00:25:46.349 produced, you've acted, and now you're directing 00:25:46.349 --> 00:25:49.829 your own stories. And I believe it was, is it 00:25:49.829 --> 00:25:52.670 a series also that you're also directing? It's 00:25:52.670 --> 00:25:55.420 a short series? Which one? I know Daphne Rubin 00:25:55.420 --> 00:25:57.859 -Begas. Oh, no, no, no. That's actually a drama. 00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.660 It's called Tuesday Nights. I directed that series 00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:03.720 like five years ago. That was a web series that 00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.660 I got hired to direct. And yeah, it was so different 00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:10.299 than anything I had ever done before. And I remember 00:26:10.299 --> 00:26:13.359 I actually got hired to produce it. And as I 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.960 was working with the creator Shiva on it and 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.160 her partner on it, Jolene, as the three of us 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.079 were working together, they told me that they 00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:22.259 already had a director for it. and then like 00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:24.059 after working with them on it for like maybe 00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:26.940 like three or four weeks they like invited me 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:29.619 out to to grab a drink and we sat down and they're 00:26:29.619 --> 00:26:32.140 like hey listen they're like we haven't introduced 00:26:32.140 --> 00:26:34.220 you to the director yet because things have kind 00:26:34.220 --> 00:26:36.200 of fallen apart with him so we're gonna move 00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:37.920 in a different direction and ultimately we'd 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:40.420 love for that direction to be you and we'd love 00:26:40.420 --> 00:26:43.000 you to do it and my first like words out of my 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.099 mouth was are you sure you don't want to hire 00:26:45.099 --> 00:26:47.559 a woman to tell this story because this is a 00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:51.059 very female -centric story and what deals with 00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:53.759 a lot of things that I think it might be a good 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:56.400 idea to at least explore that idea. And they 00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.160 both were like, we love the care and attention 00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:00.140 that you put into these characters and what you've 00:27:00.140 --> 00:27:01.579 been working on. So we really think you would 00:27:01.579 --> 00:27:03.559 be the best to tell it. And I was like, I'm going 00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:05.740 to say like, I'm not going to

say no twice. So, 00:27:05.740 --> 00:27:10.220 so, um, yeah, so no, I, I honestly, the, that 00:27:10.220 --> 00:27:12.079 was such a great experience working with a lot 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:15.539 of people in Daffy Rubin Vegas, fucking. She 00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:17.920 was awesome. But yeah, no, I've done a bunch 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:19.799 of different things, but primarily most of the 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:21.359 stuff I've done in my career has been in horror. 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:24.660 Yeah, she's a fucking icon. She's my number one 00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:26.500 meme. She will always be my number one meme. 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:28.839 I'm pretty sure a lot of people are not going 00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:30.519 to get that reference, but I don't give a shit. 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:34.299 I don't have to explain it. But all the experiences 00:27:34.299 --> 00:27:39.779 from putting on a clown suit to producing, how 00:27:39.779 --> 00:27:43.789 all that has shaped the way that you... have 00:27:43.789 --> 00:27:45.730 become, basically the filmmaker you are today. 00:27:45.930 --> 00:27:48.609 How has that, all of those experiences come together 00:27:48.609 --> 00:27:50.809 to shape who you are? Well, I think at the end 00:27:50.809 --> 00:27:53.190 of the day, like the thing, there's so many different 00:27:53.190 --> 00:27:55.450 words that you can use or so many different titles 00:27:55.450 --> 00:27:57.430 that you can use to describe all the things that 00:27:57.430 --> 00:27:59.549 you've done in your career. The biggest thing 00:27:59.549 --> 00:28:01.609 that I would say is I'm a storyteller. Like the 00:28:01.609 --> 00:28:03.990 thing that I like to do is I like to tell stories. 00:28:04.109 --> 00:28:07.329 Now, whether I'm producing or writing or directing 00:28:07.329 --> 00:28:10.230 or acting or wearing a clown costume, you're 00:28:10.230 --> 00:28:13.559 still telling a story. As an actor, which I would 00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:15.759 never call myself an actor, but I know I have 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:17.960 acted in things, but I always say act out of 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:20.759 necessity, not out of like, I'm the best person 00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:23.140 for the role. Whenever I've acted in things, 00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:26.259 it was all about, okay, cool. I'm this character. 00:28:26.339 --> 00:28:28.640 I'm this clown or I'm this. What's my motivation? 00:28:28.779 --> 00:28:30.559 What's my goal? To scare the shit out of someone 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.059 or to terrify someone or whatever. So you always 00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:35.519 want to tell a story, whether it's a small piece 00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:37.539 of the story or the entire story that you're 00:28:37.539 --> 00:28:39.319 kind of the technician putting the whole thing 00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:41.880 together. I've always been a storyteller and 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:46.130 I'm stereotypical type A person. I like... being 00:28:46.130 --> 00:28:48.410 organized and structure and having a lot of things 00:28:48.410 --> 00:28:50.569 figured out. And I'm really big on rehearsing 00:28:50.569 --> 00:28:52.369 and planning and all of that kind of stuff. So 00:28:52.369 --> 00:28:54.490 all of those things kind of go into the storytelling 00:28:54.490 --> 00:28:57.230 aspect. And even a lot of people, when they meet 00:28:57.230 --> 00:28:59.369 me, will tell me they love the way I tell stories. 00:28:59.430 --> 00:29:01.529 Some people will tell me to shut up because when 00:29:01.529 --> 00:29:03.829 I'm telling a story, I want the person who I'm 00:29:03.829 --> 00:29:06.089 telling the story to, to experience whatever 00:29:06.089 --> 00:29:08.250 I'm telling them the same way I felt when I first 00:29:08.250 --> 00:29:10.470 heard that or witnessed it or experienced it. 00:29:10.609 --> 00:29:14.349 So that kind of element is important for me. 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.380 doing little things as an actor helped me working 00:29:18.380 --> 00:29:20.799 with actors. Producing things helped me figure 00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:22.440 out the business side of things, the finance 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:25.460 side of things, the structure, the hiring people, 00:29:25.660 --> 00:29:27.700 the figuring out how to bring a team together. 00:29:27.859 --> 00:29:29.759 That helped me figure that kind of stuff out. 00:29:29.859 --> 00:29:32.299 I think where I excel and what I love to do more 00:29:32.299 --> 00:29:35.180 than anything, like I think if you were to look 00:29:35.180 --> 00:29:38.160 at my career, I probably have more success as 00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.559 a producer, but my love and my care is really 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:43.579 in the writing and directing component of things. 00:29:43.779 --> 00:29:47.819 But that being said, I do all of them because 00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:50.039 I don't want to limit myself. I know a lot of 00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:52.480 people that are only writer -directors, and usually 00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:53.960 if you're only a writer -director, you might 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:56.579 make a movie once every three years. five years 00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:59.039 i realized really early on that i love being 00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:01.400 on set i love being around people and there have 00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:03.519 been times with steven cognetti when i met him 00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.200 in 2013 and he pitched me hell house i was like 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.880 hey i love this i want to help you figure out 00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:11.880 a way to make this movie and a couple years ago 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.019 i did that with two producers tom bond and sarah 00:30:15.019 --> 00:30:17.700 seligman and director caleb phillips they brought 00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:20.079 me the movie imposters and i was like this is 00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:22.789 great um shirt and then six months later we're 00:30:22.789 --> 00:30:24.690 on set in Massachusetts shooting

it with Jessica 00:30:24.690 --> 00:30:28.710 Roth as our lead and so it's I just really like 00:30:28.710 --> 00:30:31.369 being parts of collaboration and telling stories 00:30:31.369 --> 00:30:34.329 and so any way i can do that i'm always gonna 00:30:34.329 --> 00:30:36.650 be up for i knew you didn't ask me this but if 00:30:36.650 --> 00:30:38.529 i had a choice directing is always going to be 00:30:38.529 --> 00:30:40.430 the number one thing because i really love working 00:30:40.430 --> 00:30:42.750 with actors and i really love pulling performances 00:30:42.750 --> 00:30:45.349 out of people or like shooting a sequence with 00:30:45.349 --> 00:30:47.809 someone where you're going from a to b but in 00:30:47.809 --> 00:30:49.690 your head you know you're editing it not in anything 00:30:49.690 --> 00:30:51.529 like that you just need the sequence to play 00:30:51.529 --> 00:30:53.910 out that way just for editing purposes and then 00:30:53.910 --> 00:30:55.589 you're going to chop it up or whatnot so i love 00:30:55.589 --> 00:30:58.109 that component of it no and the thing is like 00:30:58.109 --> 00:31:00.670 also if you you mentioned something very important 00:31:00.670 --> 00:31:05.170 in that is that Not just the writing. You can 00:31:05.170 --> 00:31:07.069 wear a lot of hats, but sometimes wearing those 00:31:07.069 --> 00:31:09.710 hats also help you. Because for example, you 00:31:09.710 --> 00:31:12.349 were a producer and now you're a director and 00:31:12.349 --> 00:31:14.769 now you know how, okay, I remember when you were 00:31:14.769 --> 00:31:17.069 milking me. Now I have to have some consideration 00:31:17.069 --> 00:31:18.549 when I'm milking you. You know what's funny? 00:31:18.630 --> 00:31:21.049 You could ask Brian this when you talk with him, 00:31:21.109 --> 00:31:23.609 but I remember like every day, like at the midpoint 00:31:23.609 --> 00:31:25.309 of the day, towards the end, when we're running 00:31:25.309 --> 00:31:27.950 behind time, I would go to Brian and be like, 00:31:28.700 --> 00:31:30.619 This is what I need. This is what I need. This 00:31:30.619 --> 00:31:32.480 is what I need. Because I've been that person 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.779 to do that for directors. I'm like, this would 00:31:34.779 --> 00:31:37.039 help me the best right now. This is what I'm 00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:40.490 cutting. And I was, I always say this. I'm very 00:31:40.490 --> 00:31:42.890 I like to consider myself very collaborative 00:31:42.890 --> 00:31:44.789 when I work with other people especially if it's 00:31:44.789 --> 00:31:46.509 stuff that they've written and I'm not writing 00:31:46.509 --> 00:31:48.869 it because I want to try to encompass what gave 00:31:48.869 --> 00:31:51.430 them joy and I want when the movie comes out 00:31:51.430 --> 00:31:53.089 and when people see it I want them to feel the 00:31:53.089 --> 00:31:54.970 same way that I feel when I watch it and not 00:31:54.970 --> 00:31:57.089 that this was this thing that they came up with 00:31:57.089 --> 00:31:58.789 and someone took it away from them but there's 00:31:58.789 --> 00:32:00.089 this thing that they came up with and someone 00:32:00.089 --> 00:32:02.430 came and like enhanced it and made it shine that 00:32:02.430 --> 00:32:04.759 has been whenever i collaborate with people like 00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:06.759 i did with shiva on tuesday nights as well as 00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:08.920 with brian those things have always been important 00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:11.440 to me because no matter who gets the recognition 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:13.819 a lot of times it is the director who gets the 00:32:13.819 --> 00:32:15.579 recognition or the writer director gets recognition 00:32:15.579 --> 00:32:17.960 but none of these things get made without an 00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:21.319 amazing team of cast crew people that put this 00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.500 whole thing together so that's very important 00:32:23.500 --> 00:32:26.059 to me is to make sure that learning growing and 00:32:26.059 --> 00:32:28.440 consistently supporting people the way i would 00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.720 want to be supported what's the one thing that 00:32:32.309 --> 00:32:36.069 as a filmmaker or as a storyteller like you said 00:32:36.069 --> 00:32:39.349 on the process of that that you understand now 00:32:39.349 --> 00:32:41.529 that you didn't understand when you first started 00:32:41.529 --> 00:32:45.000 i think one of the things that you get better 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.579 at the more experience you have is cutting out 00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:49.859 the fat and realizing there's a lot of people 00:32:49.859 --> 00:32:51.599 that say audiences are stupid and you have to 00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:53.559 spoon feed them i'm not one of those people i 00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:55.339 think audiences are smart and don't need to spoon 00:32:55.339 --> 00:32:57.160 feed them but there's certain things that you 00:32:57.160 --> 00:32:58.599 do need to give a little bit more information 00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:00.119 there's things that you can kind of be vague 00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:03.039 on i think the more you shoot and the more you're 00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:04.980 on set and the more you're a part of this process 00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:08.920 the easier it is is to look at a script and go 00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:11.019 yeah you don't need this scene you don't need 00:33:11.019 --> 00:33:13.279 this scene you don't need this scene We're wasting 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.519 time if we're going to shoot all of these pages 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:17.559 because these things can be told with just this 00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:19.880 thing. And I think the more experience you get, 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.059 the more you can look at like a hundred page 00:33:22.059 --> 00:33:23.819 script and be like, we can cut 10 pages out of 00:33:23.819 --> 00:33:26.339 that and shoot a 90 page, go on set and shoot

00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:28.759 90 pages versus going on set, trying to shoot 00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:31.940 a hundred pages and being behind the clock, always 00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:33.799 trying to figure that I think is one of the things 00:33:33.799 --> 00:33:36.970 that I've really enjoyed about. filmmaking. And 00:33:36.970 --> 00:33:38.609 I think I've gotten better the more experience 00:33:38.609 --> 00:33:40.789 I have. And I think most people who do this for 00:33:40.789 --> 00:33:44.019 a long time get better at that same thing. Before 00:33:44.019 --> 00:33:46.240 we wrap up, Joe, I want to touch a little bit 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.140 because I know Hell House LLC is coming up on 00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:51.660 its 10 year anniversary this year, this month. 00:33:52.309 --> 00:33:56.750 It's weird. We're labeling it as a 10 -year anniversary. 00:33:56.869 --> 00:33:58.910 Technically, it's an 11 -year anniversary, but 00:33:58.910 --> 00:34:01.849 whatever. You're not kind of the honeymoon phase. 00:34:02.089 --> 00:34:05.230 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And forget my anniversaries, 00:34:05.230 --> 00:34:06.950 too. It's going to be showing back in theaters, 00:34:07.089 --> 00:34:08.789 so it's going to be now out in theaters. This 00:34:08.789 --> 00:34:09.750 is the first time it's being shown in theaters. 00:34:10.130 --> 00:34:12.329 Oh, it's the first time? Yeah, yeah. It was released 00:34:12.329 --> 00:34:15.690 on Amazon Prime and Shudder in 2015, and so this 00:34:15.690 --> 00:34:18.130 is actually the first time. that that actual 00:34:18.130 --> 00:34:20.449 movie that we made in 2014 is being released 00:34:20.449 --> 00:34:22.130 in theaters. It's being released for four days 00:34:22.130 --> 00:34:25.250 from October 29th to November 1st. Oh, that's 00:34:25.250 --> 00:34:27.929 epic because I know it's become a cult classic 00:34:27.929 --> 00:34:29.449 at this point. I know some people don't like 00:34:29.449 --> 00:34:31.550 the cult classic. Those are some of the best 00:34:31.550 --> 00:34:36.110 films. And I saw the umbrella box set. It looks 00:34:36.110 --> 00:34:38.269 amazing. And I know some collectors that have 00:34:38.269 --> 00:34:42.010 it. But when you were part of the original as 00:34:42.010 --> 00:34:44.190 a producer, because you were a part of the original 00:34:44.190 --> 00:34:47.420 film as a producer. And as a clown, like you 00:34:47.420 --> 00:34:50.059 said, you basically stepped in to play the clown. 00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:53.059 When you look back at the movie now, what stands 00:34:53.059 --> 00:34:57.449 out to you the most? I think it was so interesting 00:34:57.449 --> 00:35:02.699 because I think creatively, like Stephen Cognetti 00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:05.559 wrote and directed it, I produced it. To see 00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.960 this little movie that we had next to no money 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:11.199 and brought a bunch of people together to see 00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:13.480 everyone's

hard work and dedication go into it. 00:35:13.809 --> 00:35:16.090 and to actually see it turn out really good. 00:35:16.409 --> 00:35:19.329 And then for it to be released and almost nothing 00:35:19.329 --> 00:35:22.309 happened and like no positive response, no anything, 00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:24.429 but us being like, yeah, let's make another, 00:35:24.590 --> 00:35:26.389 let's make another and just keep going down that 00:35:26.389 --> 00:35:29.130 path. I'm really proud of the cult status and 00:35:29.130 --> 00:35:30.909 I'm really proud that it's grown because a lot 00:35:30.909 --> 00:35:33.809 of times there, if I meet 10 people in a day 00:35:33.809 --> 00:35:35.429 and ask them if they've seen Hell House, seven 00:35:35.429 --> 00:35:38.150 out of 10 of them have not seen it. And so it's 00:35:38.150 --> 00:35:40.130 a movie that just grows by word of mouth and 00:35:40.130 --> 00:35:42.030 like. Most of the people I know who have seen 00:35:42.030 --> 00:35:44.789 it, they didn't see it until 2019 or 2020 during 00:35:44.789 --> 00:35:46.969 the pandemic. So it's one of those movies that 00:35:46.969 --> 00:35:49.210 I think grows on you. And I think similar to 00:35:49.210 --> 00:35:51.429 the sequence, it has a lot of unnerving things 00:35:51.429 --> 00:35:53.889 in it. And I think I'm really proud of that. 00:35:53.989 --> 00:35:56.929 I'm also really proud that it's rare that you 00:35:56.929 --> 00:36:00.510 see a franchise where both the producer and the 00:36:00.510 --> 00:36:02.590 writer -director stay consistent through the 00:36:02.590 --> 00:36:06.289 entire run of the franchise. So for it to be 00:36:06.289 --> 00:36:09.030 Steve and me kind of handling things from movie 00:36:09.030 --> 00:36:11.750 one to movie five, over 10 years like i'm really 00:36:11.750 --> 00:36:13.750 proud of that and i'm really excited for it to 00:36:13.750 --> 00:36:16.070 come out in theaters too because i think we got 00:36:16.070 --> 00:36:19.230 the we had a limited theatrical release set up 00:36:19.230 --> 00:36:21.650 for the fourth movie but then taylor swift announced 00:36:21.650 --> 00:36:25.150 her heirs tour and so we got canceled which i 00:36:25.150 --> 00:36:27.670 don't blame her for that like i get it to make 00:36:27.670 --> 00:36:29.449 money and her stuff was going to sell out but 00:36:29.449 --> 00:36:31.929 then we made the fifth movie and the fifth movie 00:36:31.929 --> 00:36:34.449 got a theatrical release and the fifth movie 00:36:34.449 --> 00:36:37.130 it's just not as good as the fourth movie and 00:36:37.130 --> 00:36:38.750 it's definitely not as good as the first movie 00:36:38.750 --> 00:36:41.739 and so I always think, and I think Steve felt 00:36:41.739 --> 00:36:43.920 the same way, like we always wish the first movie, 00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:45.719 especially the way it's been received over the 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.159 last 10 years, we wish it could be out to like 00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:49.880 a

mass appeal so that people could see it in 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:51.679 theaters. Because I think seeing horror movies 00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:53.619 in theaters is always the best experience, especially 00:36:53.619 --> 00:36:56.059 found footage movies. So I'm really excited for 00:36:56.059 --> 00:36:58.599 fans to see it. I know fans who love our movies 00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.719 and we have the best, literally the best fucking 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:02.559 fans in the world. I think they're going to enjoy 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:04.159 it. And hopefully it brings a newer audience 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.679 to hopefully someone's like, hey, have you ever 00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:08.260 seen this movie? Come watch it with me and we 00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:10.570 can grow our audience. people can kind of get 00:37:10.570 --> 00:37:12.309 to experience the thing that we put together 00:37:12.309 --> 00:37:16.150 with just like 10 of us 11 years ago how has 00:37:16.150 --> 00:37:19.130 that experience like at least from the beginning 00:37:19.130 --> 00:37:22.369 of of hell house llc you were bringing someone 00:37:22.369 --> 00:37:25.610 else's vision to life to be honest and now this 00:37:25.610 --> 00:37:27.809 is again someone else's vision that you're bringing 00:37:27.809 --> 00:37:31.570 to life but as a director yeah how that time 00:37:31.570 --> 00:37:35.880 between hell house and the sequence How has that 00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:38.139 prepared you to put yourself in the director's 00:37:38.139 --> 00:37:40.340 chair and approach horror that way? Yeah, I mean, 00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:42.760 I've always been a director. It's not as much 00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:45.400 as it's it's more experience. That's really the 00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:47.219 thing. It's the experience. It's seeing what 00:37:47.219 --> 00:37:49.179 works and seeing what doesn't work. A lot of 00:37:49.179 --> 00:37:52.570 times when you're producing like. creative differences 00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:54.670 and creative things happen all the time there 00:37:54.670 --> 00:37:56.130 are a lot of times that you agree with people 00:37:56.130 --> 00:37:57.489 there are a lot of times you disagree with people 00:37:57.489 --> 00:37:58.949 there are a lot of times that you have to shoot 00:37:58.949 --> 00:38:00.650 something one way because the person paying for 00:38:00.650 --> 00:38:02.550 it is making you do it that way even though you 00:38:02.550 --> 00:38:04.670 don't think you should do it that way a lot of 00:38:04.670 --> 00:38:07.130 those things happen and play out and i think 00:38:07.130 --> 00:38:10.110 a lot of times the more when you're a director 00:38:10.110 --> 00:38:12.610 it's all on your shoulders so if something plays 00:38:12.610 --> 00:38:16.079 out and like it's good people look at you as 00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:17.619 a good director something plays out it's not 00:38:17.619 --> 00:38:19.059 good people look at you as a terrible director 00:38:19.059 --> 00:38:21.480 and like people are really quick to say like 00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:24.079 i was saying before not i like this or i don't 00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:26.880 like this i love this and i hate this or i can 00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:28.920 tell you like if you go on reddit threads right 00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:31.190 now there are people who call hell house the 00:38:31.190 --> 00:38:33.409 original Hell House, the best found footage movie 00:38:33.409 --> 00:38:35.750 they've ever seen in their entire life. And there 00:38:35.750 --> 00:38:37.349 are people who think it's the worst movie they've 00:38:37.349 --> 00:38:39.309 ever seen in their entire life. That's what's 00:38:39.309 --> 00:38:41.730 interesting about this medium is it's so subjective 00:38:41.730 --> 00:38:45.469 and people try their hardest to make it so objective, 00:38:45.750 --> 00:38:49.710 but it's not. And so I think one of the things 00:38:49.710 --> 00:38:52.289 that is really interesting about getting experience 00:38:52.289 --> 00:38:55.869 is when you are a producer, you obviously have 00:38:55.869 --> 00:38:58.659 a lot of stake. in what happens and how successful 00:38:58.659 --> 00:39:01.900 the the film is but you can also you utilize 00:39:01.900 --> 00:39:04.239 things that you learn positive as well as things 00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:05.920 that you learn negative so that when you're in 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:07.480 the director's seat you can be like i'm not going 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:09.500 to make that mistake or i'm going to learn from 00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:11.800 that mistake or i'm going to try to do this or 00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:14.599 that scare that we did was really effective why 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:16.519 was it effective let me deconstruct that scene 00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:19.480 cool i'm making this movie now i have something 00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:21.679 that has a similar sort of setup let me see if 00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.210 i can learn from what I did in the past or learn 00:39:24.210 --> 00:39:26.070 from what I watched or what I collaborated on 00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:28.150 in the past and see if I can utilize that to 00:39:28.150 --> 00:39:29.909 get that same experience or that same feeling 00:39:29.909 --> 00:39:32.449 from an audience in the future. I feel like this 00:39:32.449 --> 00:39:35.150 is a good place to bring it back quickly to the 00:39:35.150 --> 00:39:38.329 sequence because I do want to, this is one of 00:39:38.329 --> 00:39:40.110 the major reasons we're here, but I did ask you 00:39:40.110 --> 00:39:42.969 if we can touch a little bit on South House LLC, 00:39:43.250 --> 00:39:45.750 because I come from the physical media community 00:39:45.750 --> 00:39:49.030 and this is mostly what this podcast is about. 00:39:49.110 --> 00:39:53.579 I'm so happy and so glad. that I've had the chance 00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:56.940 to speak to filmmakers, indie filmmakers, because 00:39:56.940 --> 00:40:00.280

again, I want to document the people behind the 00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.539 films. And Hell House, I know, is a big thing 00:40:04.539 --> 00:40:07.099 in the community. And you mentioned that, oh, 00:40:07.139 --> 00:40:09.539 you can go on Reddit. Fuck fucking Reddit. Reddit. 00:40:09.940 --> 00:40:14.019 I posted a reel of the 80s horror still book 00:40:14.019 --> 00:40:16.019 that I got. And somebody was like, oh, I just 00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:17.599 wanted to see who was a stupid person who was 00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:19.159 going to buy. And I guess I found one. I was 00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:20.820 like, shut the fuck up, dude. Just because you 00:40:20.820 --> 00:40:22.980 don't have it, it doesn't mean it sucks. It's 00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:25.480 a great retro box set. I feel like a kid with 00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:29.099 this box set. So let me be. But I also understand 00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:32.039 that there's a lot of people that could, like 00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:34.400 I said, I'm not the biggest fan of found footage. 00:40:34.460 --> 00:40:36.219 And it's not because I don't like the genre. 00:40:36.340 --> 00:40:38.280 It's because the genre gets the shit out of me. 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:41.079 Right. So it's a little different, especially 00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:43.480 now with all the found footage of cell phones. 00:40:43.869 --> 00:40:45.989 But I loved the Blair Witch Project. That was 00:40:45.989 --> 00:40:48.889 an experience in theaters that it was amazing. 00:40:49.190 --> 00:40:51.889 And I didn't know this had to come out in theaters 00:40:51.889 --> 00:40:53.650 because I would have preferred to go see it in 00:40:53.650 --> 00:40:55.889 theaters than at home. You know, I'm going to 00:40:55.889 --> 00:40:58.789 do a shameless plug here. I directed, I wrote 00:40:58.789 --> 00:41:00.949 and directed a movie. It's called Unknown Dimension, 00:41:00.969 --> 00:41:03.369 the story of paranormal activity. It's a tell 00:41:03.369 --> 00:41:05.469 -all documentary about how they made the paranormal 00:41:05.469 --> 00:41:08.590 activity franchise. And I did a section of the 00:41:08.590 --> 00:41:10.769 movie on the history of found footage and why 00:41:10.769 --> 00:41:12.949 found footage is effective. I think you would 00:41:12.949 --> 00:41:14.829 really enjoy that. And I say this because my 00:41:14.829 --> 00:41:16.889 wife always pitches this movie for people because 00:41:16.889 --> 00:41:18.610 people are like, oh, I don't watch horror movies. 00:41:18.670 --> 00:41:20.949 I'm scared of horror movies. This isn't really 00:41:20.949 --> 00:41:23.469 a horror movie. It's sort of a documentary explaining 00:41:23.469 --> 00:41:26.929 how someone took an idea and it became this worldwide 00:41:26.929 --> 00:41:29.730 phenomenon. But if you have Paramount +, you 00:41:29.730 --> 00:41:31.809 should check it out because it was a lot of fun 00:41:31.809 --> 00:41:34.389 to make. And it was a lot of fun to make. I think

00:41:34.389 --> 00:41:37.630 it's good. And yeah, I mean, if you like the 00:41:37.630 --> 00:41:39.630 stuff that I'm doing, that'll be another thing. 00:41:39.650 --> 00:41:41.840 I'm in. I don't think there's a shameless plug, 00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:44.719 and I didn't have this sitting next to me because 00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:48.119 I knew you were going to plug that. I've had 00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:49.960 this, and for people who are probably watching 00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:54.340 the YouTube video, this is the second site Blu 00:41:54.340 --> 00:41:55.940 -ray, and then this is the Playbill from the 00:41:55.940 --> 00:41:58.760 Broadway show. I still have this on my desk, 00:41:58.820 --> 00:42:00.579 like right next to where I record. So again, 00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:02.760 that was not part of your shameless plug, and 00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:05.320 there's no shame in plugging. What do you think 00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:08.079 of the play? And it was fucking amazing. Well, 00:42:08.139 --> 00:42:09.800 the thing is, we're theater people. Like, you 00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:11.059 know, me and my partner, we're theater people. 00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:13.559 We see a lot of theater now less because it's 00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:16.559 more expensive. But I wanted to see it in London 00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:18.400 because that's where it started. Well, at least 00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:22.300 the major one besides the Broadway one. And mostly 00:42:22.300 --> 00:42:24.139 because of the merch. I went to see it and I 00:42:24.139 --> 00:42:25.639 was like, let me get all the merch because like 00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:29.300 the poster looks amazing. And it was such a good. 00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:32.519 drama like obviously it was a it was unnerving 00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:34.219 you had some scenes that were kind of like how 00:42:34.219 --> 00:42:36.159 the fuck they pulled this off but when you know 00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:37.800 theater you know how they pulled it off yeah 00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.539 i i love the crowd reaction yeah as a matter 00:42:40.539 --> 00:42:44.380 of fact i i when i was taking seminars for producing 00:42:44.380 --> 00:42:46.900 you would have directors that will come in and 00:42:46.900 --> 00:42:49.480 they were broadway producing and they will come 00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:51.199 in and they're like oh that they like to watch 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.969 the audience reaction yeah So they're like, we 00:42:53.969 --> 00:42:56.190 sit in the audience and we like to watch the 00:42:56.190 --> 00:42:58.650 audience reaction. And I wanted to do that. With 00:42:58.650 --> 00:43:00.250 this play, I wanted to do that because people 00:43:00.250 --> 00:43:03.070 next to me were on edge. And I'm like, this is 00:43:03.070 --> 00:43:04.869 what's going to happen. This is what's going 00:43:04.869 --> 00:43:06.829 to happen. Like, you go in and you already know 00:43:06.829 --> 00:43:09.289 horror. But the way they pulled it off and the 00:43:09.289 --> 00:43:12.550 setting inside, the sound design. Yeah. Oh, God, 00:43:12.610 --> 00:43:14.409 I'm a sucker for a good sound design, which is 00:43:14.409 --> 00:43:16.369 something this film, and I'm not plugging it 00:43:16.369 --> 00:43:17.809 shamelessly because that's what we're here for, 00:43:17.869 --> 00:43:20.349 the sequence. It has such good sound design. 00:43:21.739 --> 00:43:24.679 If you could do that, and I'm not hating on feature 00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:27.559 films, but if you could do that in a short film, 00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:29.099 and if you could do that in a Broadway play, 00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:32.199 why can't we get in a fucking Academy Award nominated 00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:35.340 movie? I'm just, I'm just, I'm a sucker for the 00:43:35.340 --> 00:43:38.079 Oscars. Like there's, but the play itself, I 00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:39.719 didn't want to sit down and talk about it on 00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:42.519 the podcast because it's an extended run right 00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:45.909 now. So it's a limited run itself. But if it 00:43:45.909 --> 00:43:48.150 goes on tour, it was in San Francisco. And if 00:43:48.150 --> 00:43:50.630 it goes on tour and you're a horror lover, like 00:43:50.630 --> 00:43:54.070 you have to go see the play. Yeah, I moved back 00:43:54.070 --> 00:43:56.510 to New York right when they premiered it in L 00:43:56.510 --> 00:43:59.650 .A. So I got invited to go watch it with like 00:43:59.650 --> 00:44:02.130 the people from Paranormal Activity. And I'm 00:44:02.130 --> 00:44:04.070 so mad that I didn't get a chance to see it. 00:44:04.130 --> 00:44:05.989 And I still haven't seen it. But it's like literally 00:44:05.989 --> 00:44:09.769 the number one on my list of things. You're a 00:44:09.769 --> 00:44:12.289 train away. You're a train away. You can literally 00:44:12.289 --> 00:44:14.920 come watch that play in a day. If you want to 00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:16.920 sit towards the middle, if you're in the mezzanine, 00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:19.619 again, this is just because we know Broadway 00:44:19.619 --> 00:44:22.199 and the best shot for that play is the mezzanine. 00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:24.559 If you're too close to the stage, there's a scene 00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:26.500 that you're not going to appreciate that happens 00:44:26.500 --> 00:44:29.860 in the upstairs. And people were freaking the 00:44:29.860 --> 00:44:32.039 fuck out when that happened. And I was like, 00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:33.920 yeah, I'm watching it. My partner was like, why 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:35.539 was everybody yelling? What happened upstairs? 00:44:35.699 --> 00:44:37.860 I'm like, I'm not, I told them what happened, 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.980 but I'm like, I couldn't, I'm not telling the 00:44:39.980 --> 00:44:41.360 audience. You would recommend sitting in the 00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:43.400 mezzanine, not in the orchestra. The orchestra, 00:44:43.500 --> 00:44:45.420 if you sit in the

orchestra, sit at least like 00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:47.860 after role -y. Because if you sit before that, 00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:50.159 it's going to be kind of hard to see the top. 00:44:50.380 --> 00:44:52.960 Because what happens, it happens in the bed and 00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:55.619 is behind her. So you really can't appreciate 00:44:55.619 --> 00:44:58.679 it if you're too close. And the Demesanine has 00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:01.139 a perfect view because you have, obviously, you're 00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:03.920 at stage level. But yeah, if you could come to 00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:05.980 New York, watch that play. And again, I should 00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:07.639 just probably tag them at this point and just 00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:09.380 be like, hey, we shamelessly plugged you as well. 00:45:11.510 --> 00:45:14.510 But what is next for you? And where do you see 00:45:14.510 --> 00:45:17.829 the sequence taking you? Or at least you and 00:45:17.829 --> 00:45:20.969 Brian as well. Yeah, so next for me is a couple 00:45:20.969 --> 00:45:23.710 things. Here comes my plugs. So Hell House is 00:45:23.710 --> 00:45:25.949 doing its four -day theatrical run from October 00:45:25.949 --> 00:45:28.789 29th to November 1st. You can get tickets at, 00:45:28.829 --> 00:45:31.469 I believe it's iconicevents .com. Tickets are 00:45:31.469 --> 00:45:34.389 on sale now. So that's the first thing. Second, 00:45:34.550 --> 00:45:37.869 I believe October 22nd on YouTube, we're releasing 00:45:37.869 --> 00:45:40.030 the short film, The Sequence. And I know we're 00:45:40.030 --> 00:45:41.630 going to be able to release that in a couple 00:45:41.630 --> 00:45:43.429 different places over the next couple months. 00:45:43.550 --> 00:45:45.469 So we're excited for people to actually see that 00:45:45.469 --> 00:45:47.809 because we just finished the festival run from 00:45:47.809 --> 00:45:50.949 it. In early next year, there's going to be a 00:45:50.949 --> 00:45:52.710 limited theatrical run of a movie I did called 00:45:52.710 --> 00:45:54.389 Imposters, which I was mentioning a little while 00:45:54.389 --> 00:45:57.570 ago. I produced it with two partners. And it's 00:45:57.570 --> 00:45:59.630 directed by Caleb Phillips and it stars Jessica 00:45:59.630 --> 00:46:01.889 Roth from the Happy Death Day franchise and Charlie 00:46:01.889 --> 00:46:04.070 Barnett. That one's a nice little horror sci 00:46:04.070 --> 00:46:06.010 -fi movie that I think indie fans are going to 00:46:06.010 --> 00:46:07.769 love. And it did really well in the festival 00:46:07.769 --> 00:46:10.030 circuit. And then I'm working on the next feature 00:46:10.030 --> 00:46:12.210 right now that I'm going to direct. Brian's writing 00:46:12.210 --> 00:46:14.550 the sequence and I'm working on a different film. 00:46:14.710 --> 00:46:16.949 So depending on who gets done faster, whichever 00:46:16.949 --> 00:46:19.550 one is done faster is going to be the next movie 00:46:19.550 --> 00:46:23.110 that gets made by me. If you could go back a 00:46:23.110 --> 00:46:26.440 few years and give yourself a piece of advice, 00:46:26.619 --> 00:46:29.599 what would that advice be? Don't listen to what 00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:33.510 other people say or think. And obviously experience 00:46:33.510 --> 00:46:36.389 and mentorship and all of that stuff is very 00:46:36.389 --> 00:46:40.369 important. I think what happens is when you start 00:46:40.369 --> 00:46:43.650 to get success, you start to chase something. 00:46:43.750 --> 00:46:46.550 You start to chase trends and you start to chase 00:46:46.550 --> 00:46:49.389 things where you begin writing and directing 00:46:49.389 --> 00:46:52.389 and producing whatever. You try to make things 00:46:52.389 --> 00:46:55.289 that you think people will like. And I think 00:46:55.289 --> 00:46:58.400 the only way movies are successful. are when 00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:00.780 you make movies that you would like, and you 00:47:00.780 --> 00:47:02.639 make things that you want to see, and you make 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:05.440 things like, I'm a horror guy, so I love horror 00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:07.699 movies. So if I'm going to make a horror movie, 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:10.820 I want to make something that the fan wants to 00:47:10.820 --> 00:47:13.559 see. And again, I think when you start bringing 00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.780 objectivity into things that aren't really objective 00:47:15.780 --> 00:47:17.639 and they're really subjective, and you start 00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:20.300 saying good, bad, worse, better, that kind of 00:47:20.300 --> 00:47:22.860 stuff, it makes you start questioning if you 00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:24.420 should do this or if you should do this for your 00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:26.900 career. And I think... sticking to your guns 00:47:26.900 --> 00:47:30.340 and believing in yourself and kind of, you have 00:47:30.340 --> 00:47:32.119 to put in the work, but believing in yourself 00:47:32.119 --> 00:47:35.420 is the only way to be successful. And it is very, 00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.260 very tough because the industry measures success 00:47:38.260 --> 00:47:40.599 with awards and with money and with a lot of 00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:42.820 other things. And truthfully, that is not the 00:47:42.820 --> 00:47:44.880 thing that it becomes the most fulfilling thing. 00:47:45.059 --> 00:47:48.119 So that's the piece of advice that I would give 00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:50.000 to younger me. And that's the piece of advice 00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:51.739 that I would give to any young filmmaker out 00:47:51.739 --> 00:47:54.199 there is trust your instincts and trust your 00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:57.170 gut. You have a unique way of telling a story. 00:47:57.329 --> 00:47:59.449 So tell that story the way you would want to 00:47:59.449 --> 00:48:00.829 tell it and the way you would want to see it. 00:48:00.909 --> 00:48:03.449 Thank you so much, Joe, for being with me here 00:48:03.449 --> 00:48:05.909 today. I do appreciate your time. But before 00:48:05.909 --> 00:48:07.929 we go, just please tell the listeners where they 00:48:07.929 --> 00:48:10.150 can find you and where they can also find the 00:48:10.150 --> 00:48:12.489 sequence. Yeah, so the sequence will be on YouTube. 00:48:12.610 --> 00:48:16.150 It's on Red End Productions. That's Brian Lepresino's 00:48:16.150 --> 00:48:18.750 company, Red End Productions. It should be available 00:48:18.750 --> 00:48:22.099 on YouTube on October 22nd. And you can find 00:48:22.099 --> 00:48:24.099 me. I'm not the biggest social media person, 00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:27.019 but Instagram, you can find me. I'm the Chosen 00:48:27.019 --> 00:48:35.789 Joey. That's a good name. If you enjoyed this 00:48:35.789 --> 00:48:37.610 episode, the best way to support The Physical 00:48:37.610 --> 00:48:41.170 Cut is simply to follow, share. And if you know 00:48:41.170 --> 00:48:43.349 any physical media lovers, please send them this 00:48:43.349 --> 00:48:45.650 podcast. Also, if you want to leave us a review 00:48:45.650 --> 00:48:47.849 wherever you listen, I would totally appreciate 00:48:47.849 --> 00:48:50.980 that as well. You can also follow along on Instagram 00:48:50.980 --> 00:48:54.739 at The Physical Cut Pod and our website at krpodlab 00:48:54.739 --> 00:48:56.679 .com. You can leave me any voicemails there. 00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:59.000 I usually check them out. And you might want 00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:02.179 to check out the TPC support subscription for 00:49:02.179 --> 00:49:04.519 any ad -free listening, early access to selected 00:49:04.519 --> 00:49:07.820 episodes, and subscriber -only bonus cuts. This 00:49:07.820 --> 00:49:09.539 has been The Physical Cut, where films will be 00:49:09.539 --> 00:49:11.219 on the stream. And I will see you guys next time.