บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ The Ochelli Effect 11-12-2024 Larry Hancock

00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:22.360 the ramp that nobody can recall seeing Jack Ruby go down. 72 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:25.439 Sure you can see all that stuff in the plaza, 73 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:29.079 a very small area. I mean, I remarked, even from 74 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:32.360 the railroad bridge. You know, that's another thing. You go 75 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:34.439 up on the bridge, you got a bird's eye view 76 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:37.800 of the entire area. That's always curious to take that 77 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:41.600 in for yourself, and especially if you've been watching these 78 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.519 things like on TV and on documentaries for years and years, 79 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:47.600 you don't really even have a sense of things, no 80 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.959 matter how many different ways the camera's gone after it, 81 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:54.279 no matter how the camera's gone into the school book 82 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.879 depository and shown you pictures through the windows, whether it 83 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.920 was in the sixties or later on in the eighties 84 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.759 before they put in the six to four museum, which 85 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.720 that thing is there now, you know a lot of 86 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:10.720 stuff has gone on in the plaza and the entire 87 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:14.079 history of this, you know, it stems from there. And 88 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:16.600 you're not far from the hospital. You're not far from 89 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.519 where we saw the you know, the press conferences with 90 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.160 Jesse Curry and everything else occurring. Jack Ruby lurking through 91 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.480 the hallways of the what do they call that the 92 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.000 Public Safety building, right, which is where the police all 93 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:33.600 are and where they dragged Lee Harvey Oswald through when 94 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:35.639 he's saying, Hey, I'm just a patsy and all that 95 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:40.800 kind of all of this stuff in a very small space, right. 96 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:44.639 Part of it is, part of it is physical. I mean, 97 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.839 there's no way that you could appreciate the angle of 98 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:52.120 descent going down Elm Street without seeing it live and 99 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:55.720 in person. And if you're a shooter, I don't want 100 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:59.040 to hear anybody talking about how easy or easy it was. 101 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:02.399 Not a shot until you fully appreciate that angle of 102 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:05.920 dissent and what it takes to hold your target, not 103 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:10.160 on a level target, but on something that's changing angles 104 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:13.920 quickly over a period of time. You just if you 105 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:16.519 haven't seen that, you're

not ready to talk. If you 106 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:21.120 haven't stood in the positions of the various witnesses whose 107 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.319 stories you read about and look around and go, oh, 108 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:27.240 they said they heard the shot from Oh behind them, 109 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:31.000 behind them is not towards the school book depository. The 110 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.279 newman said, Oh, it came over my shoulder. No, that's 111 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:37.079 not the school book depository. You know. One of the 112 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.000 things is if you go there, you need to take 113 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:43.319 your list of witnesses that you've read their testimony and 114 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:47.160 you think a certain way about stand there, see see 115 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.079 if you read their descriptions to yourself, and see if 116 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:53.879 it makes any sense with the official story. You know, 117 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:59.480 go stand where Brennan was standing, and you know, look, 118 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:02.079 you know what do I see when I really look 119 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:06.240 up at those zepper floors? And you know, that's a 120 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.720 very important part of the experience. But the other party 121 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:12.720 experience is emotional as well. When you when you go 122 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:15.079 there and you think, well, you know, Jack Ruby was 123 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:20.079 kept in a cell overlooking that plaza for months. What 124 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:24.600 was going on in his mind? You know what? What? 125 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.800 What's the emotional context you go over? You know, so 126 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.120 part of it's seeing what you can see personally. You 127 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:35.199 go over by the tower, the railroad tower, see what 128 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:39.000 you can see from there. You go look down the 129 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.160 fence line and see what Ed Hoffman could or cannot see. 130 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.439 Don't don't take what anybody wrote about any of that. 131 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:49.199 Go see for yourself. But so there's an emotional element 132 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:54.000 and there's a very you know, reality check on what 133 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:56.120 you've been reading that you really can only get if 134 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:57.079 you go there in person. 135 00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:59.759 Well, right, even taking a look at cars going down 136 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:03.920 the road and standing where Mary Mormon was with her 137 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:08.720 you know, one shot instant camera, Okay, it is pretty 138 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:12.639 interesting how she even captured that. That photo is pretty 139 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:16.639 amazing because the timing is so interesting. And if you 140 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:18.439

take a look at the way the traffic comes by, 141 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.920 now granted it is a motorcade. I mean, all these 142 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:24.519 positions are of interest. Whether you go to where sm. 143 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:28.160 Hollyd was, you know, where his perch was, and like 144 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.600 I said, I appreciate that. And then when you take 145 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:34.440 in some of the accounts combined with what could you 146 00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:38.360 see from the particular position that they claim to be in, 147 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:40.840 where were they photographed? By the way, because we do 148 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:45.000 have a lot of photographic evidence now regarding where people 149 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.799 were at exactly what point they were at, where the 150 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:51.960 police ended up really quickly. I mean, all of that 151 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:52.919 stuff comes. 152 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.919 Together, Like Brendon was not looking at but the sixth 153 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:58.960 floor window. Now we have photographs that show what he 154 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:02.399 was doing. Now, wasn't even face in the right direction. Well, 155 00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:04.440 you know, and that's why I refer to this as 156 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:05.559 a sanity test. 157 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:09.039 Well, plus I love how he can look up six 158 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:12.240 floors now, just this is always my favorite point. And 159 00:09:12.279 --> 00:09:14.519 again I'm not a guy who maybe some people go, well, 160 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:16.600 how would you know, Chuck, your your vision's bad. Well, 161 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:18.639 here's the thing. When you're working with very little vision, 162 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:21.320 you pay a lot of attention to certain things, and 163 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:24.279 you try to make notes of details because you've got 164 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:27.679 less information to work with. Well, here's my question, how 165 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:32.200 is it you're going to tell somebody's height from that? 166 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.519 That's the weirdest thing is he gives a height for 167 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:39.679 Oswald supposedly right when he's looking up six floors at 168 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:42.879 least right six floors depending on elevation, though it might 169 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:46.039 be more like seven floors. Okay, But either way, you're 170 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:49.039 looking up at that through a window which was probably 171 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:52.679 not perfectly clean. But even if it was perfectly clean, 172 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:57.639 you're looking up through a window, you know, go ahead, 173 00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:57.960 and a. 174 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.639 Window which is two feet lower than most windows are 175 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:04.360 the windows on that floor are much

lower at the 176 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:07.440 bottom than a normal window. Yeah, not like I said, 177 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.639 you just estimated it. Well, okay, let me the windows 178 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:13.440 normally the X feed up from the floor. That's not 179 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.399 the way it is in the school book depository. 180 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:19.679 Right, So you know a window that's lower, okay, with 181 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.200 a lot of boxes which should have been able to 182 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:24.639 be visually seen through the window, regardless of how they 183 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:29.720 were arranged. That's another issue. But you know, and you 184 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:33.519 could pick out really quickly how tall somebody was, the 185 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:38.679 tone of their skin, the color of their hair. I 186 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:41.919 got to call a little bs on that. But anyway, I. 187 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:44.600 Led walking tours there for years and years and years, 188 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:46.960 and we'd spend probably an hour and a half walking 189 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:50.879 the plaza, going to different locations, and we are ending 190 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:54.240 usually was okay. Now there's a fellow that's claimed that 191 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.440 he was three blocks away and he saw a person 192 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:01.639 in the window and the detail here's the detail he gave. 193 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:05.039 Now we're gonna walk down there, and I want any 194 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.320 of you to tell me if you think you can 195 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:09.919 see that detail of people in a window. You know 196 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:12.679 this is I'm not gonna tell you, pro Rakhan, but 197 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:16.000 let's test this stuff out. So there's a there's a 198 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:19.480 big argment for testing things out in Dealey Plaza. 199 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:22.360 Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, and you could do all that, 200 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:25.759 plus you could go stand on the same pedestal or 201 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:27.759 you know what do they call that? I guess it's 202 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:32.360 a pedestal. Right, where's the cruiter stood? Oh yeah, right, 203 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:34.879 And and take a look at him trying to film 204 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:36.720 it and take you know, pull out your phone if 205 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:39.320 you want. I mean, it's not it's not nearly as 206 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.440 bulky as the Bell andhal camera, but just take out 207 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:44.879 your phone and sort of film the cars going by, 208 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.559 because you know, it's still a working street. Uh, And 209 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.240 and try and imagine that for a moment. It just 210 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:55.080 puts you in a whole different place. And the conferences 211 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.799 in and of themselves, regardless of the fact that you 212 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:01.919 have access to uh, this is workley relevant area. Which, 213 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:04.240 by the way, I'm definitely going to take some listeners 214 00:12:04.279 --> 00:12:06.840 over there. We're going to take a small group over 215 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.120 and you know, hopefully we'll do that early on Friday. Okay, 216 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.240 Now there's no particular organization for this, but I plan 217 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:17.480 to be up early on Friday, go to the plaza 218 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.720 and be there for a little bit before the conference 219 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.759 actually kicks off on Friday, which it'll start with Mike Swanson, 220 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.039 by the way, which I think, based on his choice 221 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.519 of topic, is going to be very appropriate. But either way, 222 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:33.799 this is going to be interesting. Let's talk about some 223 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:39.320 of the conferences though, and some interesting things that have occurred. Now, 224 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:41.919 not everybody who's been at every conference has always been 225 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.120 my favorite person. I'll be honest with you there and 226 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:48.519 tell you that some people have changed over the years too, 227 00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:53.440 but so have many things changed over the years. Let's 228 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:56.919 talk about a couple of the odd occurrences that I 229 00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.960 kind of think. Look, I think it would be great 230 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:04.000 if these things were absolutely captured on film. And of 231 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:07.720 course you could record certain things going on yourself. Nowadays 232 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:11.080 everybody's got a damn camera in their pocket, so you 233 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.639 never know what you might capture in the hallways at 234 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:17.639 the bookstore, et cetera, because there are interactions going on 235 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:22.600 everywhere between all kinds of interesting people. And let's talk 236 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.600 about some of the people that maybe are no longer 237 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.799 with us. For starters, David Lifton was an interesting guy, 238 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:34.320 and I would say that many many people in the 239 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:38.320 age group which is slightly older than mine, always point 240 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:42.159 to Best Evidence as one of the great starting points 241 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:45.120 for their interest in the case. Now, regardless of what 242 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:48.399 you think about, you know, the hoaxing of the body 243 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:53.879 alteration afterwards, what happened with the caskets, et cetera, etc. 244

00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:57.200 Regardless of what you think about all of that, it 245 00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:00.440 did indeed spark a great deal of interest and got 246 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:06.600 that fascinating program from Nova on PBS. Regarding the JFK assassination, 247 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:11.600 it was really big around the twentieth anniversary in nineteen 248 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:14.200 eighty three. It was big. It was released before that, 249 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:16.559 but it was big around then. It was big still 250 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:19.200 around the twenty fifth anniversary, which is when I came 251 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:23.919 into the case. Best Evidence and David Lifton, but he 252 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.679 was at some of these Lancer conferences and had some 253 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:29.200 interesting interactions, didn't he Learry. 254 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:33.399 Yeah, David kind of sht His interest shifted a little 255 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:35.320 bit over the years. Of course, he started out it 256 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.879 was all very physical, autopsy oriented Best Evidence, but he 257 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:45.840 became very interested in Oswald and Oswald's osl's background. Oswald 258 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:49.919 in New Orleans and at one conference he actually, as 259 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.080 I recall, brought along a friend who had been a 260 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:56.720 friend of Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in high school, 261 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.759 and you know, brought him in and they were they 262 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:03.279 were going over some you know, what do you remember 263 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.360 about them? When? What year? Kind of backframe and and 264 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:11.000 and uh, someone whose name I won't mention but is 265 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:14.720 very well known to the assassination community stood up and said, 266 00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:19.080 that's all a lie. And you know that that's a 267 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.519 point in time where you don't want to be the moderator. 268 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:21.840 Chuck. 269 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.200 I mean, that's that's you know, Uh, this is this 270 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:29.679 is called host satisfy, you know. And this individual and 271 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:35.639 lifting confrontational would be an understatement. We're talking about physical 272 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.240 It's sort of like, okay, you need to throw your 273 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.559 body in between these two because somebody is going to 274 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:47.000 get ejected. So if I will say, if anyone has 275 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.519 the uh, the impression that these conferences are kind of 276 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:56.919 all studious and academic and there's no emotional content, you're wrong. 277 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.759 There's a lot to be learned from the interactions. The individual, 278 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:06.519 the individual that interrupted lifting and confronted him, and who 279 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:12.480 I won't name, at another another years later conference, did 280 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:17.120 something that's that's totally unacceptable. He was he was listed 281 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:21.159 to speak, okay, so he got up and introduced himself. 282 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:24.879 Now by that time, I was doing the moderation and 283 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.159 got up and introduced himself and said, well, yes, I 284 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:30.240 know I'm about to speak about this, but I have 285 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.360 this young man who is a security expert and he 286 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:38.240 needs to tell you all his analysis of the shooting. 287 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:42.799 And the fellow got up and started off, and immediately 288 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.480 the fact that he was taking was that Jackie Kennedy 289 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:46.720 was involved in the shooting. 290 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:48.840 Oh boy was he. 291 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:52.600 Was like, she was involved in the conspiracy. And at 292 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.360 that point in time, I regret doing this. But I 293 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:57.840 was at the back of the room. I could not 294 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.399 I could not believe what I was here. And it's like, okay, 295 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.400 the crowd is beginning to, you know, getting ready to 296 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.240 surge to the stage, and I'm going I Am not 297 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:10.559 going to throw myself up in front of me. I'm 298 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:13.400 not gonna He's gonna get whatever he gets. And I 299 00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:15.039 just eased out the back door. 300 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.039 No, okay, you slinked out the back. Now is this 301 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:21.359 one of these guys who does the whole Jackie had 302 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.680 a little pistol with her and shot him in the head. 303 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:25.440 Thing is oh no, no, this. 304 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.599 Is she was part of the conspiracy. She actually held 305 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:29.599 him up to be shot. 306 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:31.880 Oh, she held him up to be shot, because you 307 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.640 have heard the guys who have said that she had 308 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.160 a little pistol in her hand, right, you know, like 309 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:39.559 the little movie you see on the Zuppruter film. Of course, 310 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:41.240 then they get into this is one of the reasons 311 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.599 why they had to edit the Subruter film is they 312 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:45.960 had to remove her with a pistol. I'm not kidding. 313 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.480 By the way, there are people at a straight face 314 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:51.079 who say this, but good

so that that's. 315 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.960 Kind of the worst case when you have to ask 316 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:56.359 yourself for am I really going to throw myself between 317 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:58.319 the speakers on a you know, or am I going 318 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:01.680 to throw myself you know, in front of the speaker 319 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:06.039 in the crowd? And the fellow went on, and actually 320 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:09.920 the audience was just they moaned, they've grown, They booed 321 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:12.839 a little bit and just let him continue, and most 322 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.519 of them walked out of the room. But that would 323 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.720 be one example. The other example of the surprise, and 324 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:20.880 this is again as the host. What you always hate 325 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:25.440 is Jack White, who we all dearly loved, lovely man 326 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.960 not necessarily accepting everything he had to say, but very 327 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:34.279 sincere got up to speak about the Supruter film, and 328 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.559 he had talked about the Supruder film before and how 329 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.079 it had been falsified. So okay, we want to want 330 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:43.640 to give everybody their voice. And so he comes up 331 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:46.079 and he said, well, I'm going to seede my time 332 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:49.759 to this young man who's going to talk about another 333 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:53.400 copy of this film that he's seen that presents something 334 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.759 totally different. And he's from France and Chuck, you're probably 335 00:18:57.799 --> 00:18:59.960 gonna that's probably going to ring a bell with you. 336 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.680 So the guy talks, gets up and spend Jack's time 337 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:08.880 talking about this other version that's held within French intelligence. 338 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.920 He's been allowed to view it. Here's what it shows. 339 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.240 You know, there is no prominence for any of this, 340 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.799 there's no backstory to any of it. And as soon 341 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:21.200 as he starts talking, stops talking, he leaves, and it's 342 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.720 like everybody is like, okay, what do we do now? 343 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:29.119 Does he This became a story for several years as 344 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:33.000 to a real another copy of the Bruer film, and 345 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:36.640 it was totally out of the blue. Normally, the vetting 346 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:41.319 of the speakers does require that they have some evidentiary 347 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:44.839 back you know, backstoried of what they're presenting. This was 348 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.000 just totally out of the blue. Again, these are the 349 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:51.960

sources of things that raise a great hue and cry. 350 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:55.359 That's hard to judge from a distance. If you had 351 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:58.920 been here there seeing how that happened, and had tried 352 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:02.079 to interact with the individual and really get some information 353 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:06.839 from him and learned how little there was which I did, 354 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.839 you might have a totally different view than if you 355 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:15.920 had just seen the presentation. But that personal interaction is 356 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.319 hard to get a getaway. And another version of that 357 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.559 check that I have to relate is early on, I 358 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:24.640 was not the host. I was not a man. In 359 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.559 the early years that I was attending, I was so 360 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:30.720 eager that I would go set on the floor in 361 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.440 the front row, so I was closer to the speaker, okay, 362 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.160 because I do not want to miss anything, right, all right. 363 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:41.079 So it's lunchtime, okay, And it's lunchtime when we're all 364 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.880 getting ready to go out and go eat. And I 365 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:47.319 don't know if it was Deborah herself or someone else, 366 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.960 came up and said, well, this gentleman has asked. He's 367 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:55.000 got something really important, you know, to present. He's not 368 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.880 on the schedule. We don't want you to miss this. 369 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.160 If you want to hear it, go have one at 370 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:02.319 your stay. And he gets up and presents for a 371 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:06.559 full hour, and of course I'm going to stay for 372 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:09.359 this because I'm at that level of eager. You know, 373 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.519 I'm not leaving the room for anything at this point 374 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.400 in time. And for those that viewer familiar with it, 375 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:17.920 he presents the story that later appeared in the book 376 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:26.240 called Flight Out of Dallas, about an airman who supposedly 377 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.799 was on an aircraft that flew into Dallas, picked up 378 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.720 a couple of guys in street cleaners uniforms, landed on 379 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.400 the bank of the river right there, right there downtown 380 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:43.240 multi engineercraft, and picked up Lee Harvey Oswell look alike, 381 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.880 and flew away. And you know, this is a fascinating 382 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:50.279 story because he's given all this detail and I'm taking 383 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:54.559 like twenty pages of notes, and I look up from 384 00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.559 my notes and he's gone. It's like, you know, this 385 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.400 is a guy you want to talk to. And I 386 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.720 look around, turned my head and he's running, literally running 387 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.200 out the back door of the room, and so I 388 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:11.480 ran after him and he's literally sprinted down the escalator 389 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:16.720 out of the hotel. It's like wow, and you know, 390 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:20.920 this is a fascinating personal experience. Well, I managed to 391 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:25.079 establish contact with him. I talked to him many many 392 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.920 times over several years. I was trying to get through 393 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:32.640 to this guy who he was representing with this story. 394 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.799 He would never let me talk to him. Long story there. 395 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.359 I won't go into the book or the issues with 396 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:42.119 the book, but this is just an example of an 397 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:46.880 experience that you might you know, it's like wow. But 398 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.359 if I had not seen how he behaved, I probably 399 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.759 would not have been nearly as skeptical as I was, 400 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:57.960 because he gave all this information, if like, loads of facts, 401 00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:00.559 and then ran out of the room. 402 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.400 Well, and that was a strange story anyway, because I 403 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:06.359 remember it got popular for a minute, that story, and 404 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:10.880 there was always this this buffer between the person who 405 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.240 actually experienced it and the and the story right where, 406 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:17.440 you know. I think they even presented this on Coast 407 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:20.720 to coast AM at one point the flight out of Dallas, right, 408 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.240 and it was interesting to a degree, but the story 409 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:28.599 never quite went anywhere. And I'm pretty sure it was 410 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:30.400 supposed to be a guy who was, you know, in 411 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.440 the military, was catching a ride somewhere else, and they 412 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:36.000 have these transports that go around to different bases and 413 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.839 do this and that, and he just so happens to 414 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:41.640 be on a flight that picks up the lee Harvey 415 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:46.039 Oswald look like. And it's a wild story. 416 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:48.480 But and he doesn't get killed, right, I mean, that's 417 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.880 one of the immediate questions is we know these guys 418 00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:54.359 don't have any they're not hesitant to murder the president 419

00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:56.880 of the United States. So the primary witness that just 420 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.079 saw its conspiracy is going to walk off the plane 421 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:02.160 and just go get on a bus or something. 422 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:05.319 And nobody cares a guy with no clear you know, 423 00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:08.400 the guy has no special clearance that we know the 424 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.319 guy is not. You know what I'm saying is it's 425 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:13.759 not like he's cleared to be around sensitive things. And 426 00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:16.559 you would think that if the military is involved with this, 427 00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:19.559 they might count it as a sensitive thing. Okay. 428 00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:22.559 The interesting thing is is it turned out one of 429 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:26.319 the reasons after the fact, he got very paranoid about 430 00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:30.440 it all because he thought that he was being he 431 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:34.480 was being investigated, that he was under surveillance, and he 432 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.519 was actually taken to Washington, d C. And ask a 433 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:43.359 series of questions. Now here's the interesting thing. The guy 434 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:48.960 actually was being screened and reviewed for assignment as a 435 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:53.400 logistics staff person for the SR seventy one project run 436 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:58.559 by the CIA. So of course he was being vetted. 437 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.720 This is like one of the ultra secret projects in 438 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:06.039 the whole United States CIA military complex. Of course he 439 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:11.039 was being screened, had nothing to do, and of course 440 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:13.279 it's sort of like, well, this is the guy we 441 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:16.359 would pick for a sensitive post at Area fifty one, 442 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:19.880 which is where he got assigned, by the way, But 443 00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:22.680 he never could make the connection that the reason he 444 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.880 was being you know, screened, was because of the program 445 00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:29.400 that he was being vetted for, rather than oh, they're 446 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.440 watching me because I know what happened in. 447 00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:34.000 Dallas, and you and I have discussed this on the 448 00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:36.480 show before, where they go in depth and start to 449 00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:40.319 investigate people's lives in order to you know, give him 450 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.640 a job or to or to you know, involve them 451 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:44.720 in a program. I mean, I talked to you about 452 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:47.720 applying for a job for the NSA and how they 453 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.799 start checking into your background. They want to talk to 454 00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:54.079 anybody who's related to you, people who've known you, et cetera, 455 00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:56.799 et cetera, and they will go around and interview and 456 00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.119 check your facts to make sure you know that you 457 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:02.039 actually attended this cools you say you did, et cetera, 458 00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:05.160 et cetera. So I mean it is and whether or. 459 00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:07.400 Not you talk to people. Yeah, how much you tell 460 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:09.759 you that he was going into a job that was 461 00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:12.960 not He just wasn't getting a security clearance. He was 462 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:18.640 getting assigned to a compartmentalized project. And the biggest, the 463 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.960 biggest classification for that SR seventy one project was you 464 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:26.160 don't talk to anybody about anything. And of course they're 465 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:28.279 going to monitor you to see if you talk to 466 00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.519 anybody about anything. 467 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.640 Well there's the other thing. No matter how much people 468 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:37.039 think they know you, right, uh, they're gonna check into 469 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:39.720 your activities. What's the best way to do that surveillance, 470 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:42.920 you know, just to see what you're currently doing. They're 471 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.400 checking on your past with these other people, maybe you know, 472 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:47.880 see what kind of person you were, and like I said, 473 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:52.920 you know your your previous behaviors might indicate your future actions, 474 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:53.799 et cetera. 475 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:58.039 So I mean, look, these are just things that happen 476 00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:01.519 at the conference. They come, they go, but it's again, 477 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:05.480 it kind of explains why the conference in person, if 478 00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:08.519 you nobody would have seen that, if they had not 479 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:11.319 been at the conference in person and kind of hanging 480 00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:13.720 around for a couple of minutes rather than heading right 481 00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:16.279 for the you know, lunch or whatever. It's just as 482 00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:20.400 spontaneous and spontaneous things do happen at the conference. 483 00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.400 See, And I now know why you were laughing in 484 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:25.480 twenty seventeen when, you know, because I was there and 485 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:28.720 that was the first time I ever went to you know, Lancer, 486 00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:34.200 and I was there, and Carmine is given his presentation 487 00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:37.440 the way he does, and at the end, all of 488 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:40.480 a sudden, somebody

wanted to jump up and advocate for 489 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:43.039 somebody who definitely would not have been invited to the 490 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:48.240 Lancer conference, okay, and wanted to basically push back against 491 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:52.640 a huge part of what Carmine just presented because a 492 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:57.880 particular witness needs to be acknowledged. And it started to 493 00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:02.440 get nasty real quick, and it was I thought, I 494 00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:05.240 thought there was going to be a problem, to be 495 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:07.920 honest with you, and other people got a bit ben 496 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.160 out of shape about it, and it actually changed my 497 00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:13.720 presentation for the next day, even though previously I was 498 00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:17.839 slated to present right after Carmine. I was then changed 499 00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:22.039 to the next day, and I pulled out a piece 500 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:24.279 of what it was I was going to present because 501 00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:26.759 people got all nervous about we might have a problem. 502 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:30.640 And then I discovered and this is something again, I 503 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:32.640 had no idea this kind of thing was going to happen. 504 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.319 I discovered that, you know, from another conference, came other 505 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:40.880 people who sort of snuck into the Lancer conference. 506 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:43.559 Yep, yes, yes, indeed. 507 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:47.440 And these kind of interactions. My understanding is, you know, 508 00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:49.480 I thought it was a rare thing that happened there. 509 00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:53.839 Apparently these sorts of things do happen on occasion where 510 00:28:54.240 --> 00:29:00.240 people intentionally come in to cause problems, disrupt things by 511 00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:02.359 on the Lancer conference. 512 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:05.960 Even people in a yeah, I yes. 513 00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:08.799 I literally had one of them walk up to me 514 00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:13.039 in twenty seventeen, which was funny and shake my hand 515 00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:15.400 and say, oh, I'm a fan of yours. Okay, you know, 516 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.559 so I stopped. I talked to you know me, I'll 517 00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:20.920 talk to anybody, right, especially if they approach me friendly. 518 00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:25.440 I'm good like that. So she starts talking to me, 519 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:28.200 and I looked down at her like name tag, you know, 520 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:31.079 because we all got these like Lancer name tags. If 521 00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:33.440 you were a presenter, if you were part of the conference, 522 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:36.640 and I think even the people that were attending were 523 00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:39.240 given these, you know,

printed name tags. 524 00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:42.519 So I looked down for the reason you just discussed. 525 00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:45.119 Yeah, Well, the funny thing is I look down, I 526 00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:49.160 realized she has a name tag. Yes, indeed, but it's 527 00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:53.279 not a lancer name tag. And I'm like, you wore 528 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:57.000 the tag from the other conference into here. Nobody stopped you, 529 00:29:57.680 --> 00:29:59.519 and you're what do you do? Well, I'm just I 530 00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:01.599 was a at the other conference. I wanted to come 531 00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:05.799 and check out what's going on here. I went, oh, okay, 532 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:09.519 and I didn't know what to say. The next thing 533 00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:12.119 I knew is the little group of people she was 534 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:17.319 with left and I'm like, okay, we got people popping 535 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:19.680 in from the other conference to check on what it 536 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:23.359 is we're doing. Very strange. 537 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:26.160 Yeah, see how fun this is? Again, you just don't 538 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.359 get this experience. But of course there are there are 539 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:32.400 kind of sensational experiences that are a little I won't 540 00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:36.920 call them lighthearted. I'm one of the most fun for 541 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:39.519 me was one of the years in which I had 542 00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:42.920 first started doing some full scale presentations, you know, hour 543 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:48.759 long presentations. Whatever. I was at the just beginning my presentation, 544 00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:52.440 I had issued the words said, I am going to 545 00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:56.160 talk about real names and real people, and I'm going 546 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:58.559 to show you pictures. And at that point the fire 547 00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:04.079 alarm went off and we ended the whole building and 548 00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:06.880 somebody looked at me and said, maybe you shouldn't do that. 549 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.400 I'm going not, well, no, I'm still going to do it. 550 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:15.559 But and I think the year earlier, on her way 551 00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:19.200 down to open the conference, Deborah had been on an 552 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:24.559 elevator that had dropped four floors, right, and it's like, 553 00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:27.599 you know, those are the things We're good now. You know, 554 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:30.640 none of this this really means anything. It does and 555 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:34.279 it's just part of the overall experience, but of course 556 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:38.079 it doesn't. Just telling anecdotal stories that it's not nearly 557 00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:40.240 as bad as when we Debora and I showed up 558 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:43.559 in Dallas at one of the other hotels, not the 559 00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:46.799 hotel were using this year, walked in and they said, well, 560 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:50.640 the hotels changed hands and there's no more restaurant. 561 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:51.680 No more restaurant. 562 00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:55.880 It's like, hmmm, okay, this is a problem. 563 00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:56.079 You know. 564 00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.880 So there are those fun things behind the scenes that 565 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:03.039 she got into it a arrange for anyway, but that 566 00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:07.079 the attendees never see, but the conference experience is unique, 567 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:08.359 there's no doubt about that. 568 00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:10.680 Well, you know, that's not the only fire alarm incident 569 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:13.319 that ever occurred. I remember, now, Look, I did a 570 00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:18.759 late night interview in uh, you know last year when 571 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:20.720 when we were there, I did the Coast to Coast 572 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.119 AM and it was funny because I called the I tested. 573 00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:27.240 They tested my phone line and everything beforehand, so I could, 574 00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:29.039 you know, okay, how's this going to sound? Is he 575 00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:31.240 going to be okay on air? Yes? Indeed, because you 576 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:33.799 got to check with a cell phone especially, and I 577 00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:36.640 didn't have many choices, you know, because I'm in a hotel, 578 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.799 I'm not at home. I can't plug into anything really 579 00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:42.920 all that sophisticated, so you know, I had to rely 580 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:46.880 on a cell phone. Anyway, they're they're testing it and 581 00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:50.480 it's fine. They called me back to put me on air, like, 582 00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:52.759 you know, two minutes before I'm supposed to go on air, 583 00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:58.240 and now there's interference and we couldn't clear up this interference. 584 00:32:58.319 --> 00:32:59.839 I thought I was not going to be able to 585 00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.559 go live on the radio show. And you know what 586 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:04.640 I thought of when this started happening, and I ended 587 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:06.880 up having to move to a different part of the 588 00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:08.960 room and find a place where I could make it 589 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.640 you know, nice and quiet and everything else. And we 590 00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.359 got through it, and I got through the interview. Now 591 00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:16.799 that was being done on a night after we had 592 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:19.200 already held part of the conference, so you know, it 593 00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:22.359 wasn't really for promotion of come down and see the 594 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.000 conference ahead of

time, but it was this is happening now. 595 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:30.359 Another time, when somebody was doing a similar thing on 596 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:35.279 a nighttime radio show, the alarm went off during the 597 00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:40.359 fire alarm went off like instantaneously during their interview as well. 598 00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:43.880 Are you privy to that story, because that was weird. 599 00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:48.519 No, it doesn't sound out of character, but I don't 600 00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:50.079 recall that particular one. 601 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:52.599 Well, people were pounding on doors telling him to get 602 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.720 out of a particular section of the hotel, and it 603 00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:57.920 just so happens this is the section where the guy 604 00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:01.000 was staying and being interviewed. So he's being told to 605 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:04.400 evacuate from the hotel room while he's on air live 606 00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:08.800 And I can't remember who did it was somebody who 607 00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:10.960 you know, it's not not one of the biggest names 608 00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:12.960 or anything. And he didn't really have anything you know, 609 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.480 crazy uh uh, you know, deep covered or reveal. It 610 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:18.679 wasn't like I'm going out here and I'm revealing some 611 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.960 brand new document or something, you know, Like, it wasn't 612 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:23.920 like that. It was just a general sort of Hey, 613 00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.719 we're holding the conference and this is a point of 614 00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:31.360 interest for your radio listeners. And yeah, and that guy 615 00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:34.960 was like being evacuated like during the commercial break on 616 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:38.519 the radio show, which was like insanely funny to me. 617 00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:42.199 But but I've heard these weird stories about the hotels. 618 00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:44.559 I could tell a couple of weird stories too. 619 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:47.360 But they're also positive stories, I will say, And they're 620 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:51.159 positive surprises. I remember, And we've added to two or 621 00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:54.719 three occasions I did it that we really we changed 622 00:34:54.719 --> 00:35:00.119 speakers and people agreed to this, but people that were 623 00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:05.079 on the schedule and people someone shows up. An example 624 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:08.239 of that would be one year when actually we cleared 625 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:10.679 the speaker for a lot and this guy walks up 626 00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:14.519 to the podium and nobody recognizes him and nobody knows 627 00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:19.320 who he is, but he's in this black kind of 628 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:24.559 ninja suit with a headband around a black headband try 629 00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:27.079 tied around his head, and you're going, oh, lord, what's 630 00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:30.639 going to happen now? And if you're in the audience. 631 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.719 And he gets up and says, I'm a conspiracy researcher 632 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:40.920 and I'm John Newman, okay, and everybody just kind of huh, 633 00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:43.599 what fell out of a chair? And John goes and 634 00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:46.679 I've just come back from resuming all the Mexico City 635 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:50.159 documents and we have a totally new story that you've 636 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:54.440 never heard, and I've got, you know, five hundred overhead 637 00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:59.079 transparencies to tell it to you. And he did, and 638 00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.199 it was It was revolutionary in terms of exposing it 639 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:06.440 is first time we'd ever seen the documents from Mexico City, 640 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:11.840 in terms of how how headquarters in Mexico City were 641 00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:16.400 lined to each other and changing their stories, and how 642 00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:21.440 how everybody in headquarters was just going ballistic. And he 643 00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.159 would show the actual teletype messages kind of at some 644 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:28.039 one point, the teletype message says, you have to say 645 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:33.119 things more clearly. We're worried, you know, get to the point, 646 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:37.519 and you could tell how nervous they were at headquarters 647 00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:41.199 about what was going on, and it just overwhelmed the audience. 648 00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:43.519 I mean, it was an overwhelming presentation. 649 00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:48.280 John was explaining not only that, but how these communications 650 00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:52.320 took place like you literally could visualize, all right, you 651 00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:54.800 have this machine here, they have to communicate this way 652 00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.800 to this branch. This is where it goes to, this 653 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.440 is where it ends up. And quite honest, that's during 654 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:03.800 the time period when a lot of us, I believe, 655 00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:07.079 learned for the first time how a lot of those 656 00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:12.119 communications worked, because you know, this stuff ends up in files, 657 00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:16.559 and I think that people didn't understand that. You know, look, okay, 658 00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:18.159 it's a memo, So what does it mean when it's 659 00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:22.719 a memo? No clue about exactly how these documents worked. 660 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:25.159 And he was showing us the communications and how they 661 00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:28.599 would have taken place like in the real world, you know. 662 00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:32.800 And the time

sequence, which was very critical. But so 663 00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:36.079 I guess telling that story to so that there are surprises, 664 00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:39.039 but there are good surprises. I think another surprise was 665 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:42.960 a year in which you know, there was a person's 666 00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:46.880 I talked about introducing people and like blowing away the moderator, 667 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:54.320 and but a person whose name nobody really recognized Deborah 668 00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:55.920 and I knew him. He was a good friend of Deborah. 669 00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:00.000 Researcher from New Orleans is on the agenda and gives 670 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.760 up and he does an introduction to a lady. And 671 00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.199 this was revolutionary because it had to do with Roe 672 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:10.119 Share Me and the whole story about Roe share Me 673 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.119 and what she said when and basically she had she had. 674 00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:20.000 Her story was that she had actually personally because the 675 00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:24.480 police officer. People that know this story know that Jeremy 676 00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:29.320 was transported by a police officer named Friget Okay and 677 00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:33.280 that's all that ever appears. You know he transported her, well, 678 00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:39.320 she said, you all don't understand. Even then, police officers 679 00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:46.039 were not allowed in Louisiana to transport a female prisoner unassisted. 680 00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:49.840 There had to be a chaperone. She was a secretary. 681 00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:53.880 She rode in the car with him. Her name shows, yes, 682 00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:56.079 she was, you know when you trace back her name, Yeah, 683 00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:59.440 she was the secretary. But nobody ever took testimony from her. 684 00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:03.880 Nobody ever interviewed her. And she went into a lengthy 685 00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:08.280 story about how she had worked with him, verified aspects 686 00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:11.840 of a story and verified Jeremy's remarks. Now here's an 687 00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:16.000 interesting thing. You would never have gotten that anywhere but 688 00:39:16.119 --> 00:39:19.559 at the conference. She never wrote a book, never been 689 00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:23.719 interviewed by anybody else. It's never really entered the data 690 00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:27.719 set about Roe. Jeremy. Other than at the conference. And 691 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.760 that's true of a number of things that have been 692 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:34.280 introduced as data. But the only place you would have 693 00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.880 gotten them was at the conference. And the either they're 694 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:41.199 captured on the conference you know, CD or you know, 695 00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:45.599 but you know they that's you get. You get unique 696 00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:50.599 bits and pieces of information there, as we had when 697 00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:55.039 we had James Hosty testify and make remarks that he 698 00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.440 didn't put in his book and he didn't put anywhere else, 699 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:03.159 and he was responding to questions and talking in person. 700 00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:06.239 You know, there's there's a level of interchange that goes 701 00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:10.400 on that that just is not necessarily reproduced anywhere else. 702 00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:14.639 Well, right, even the nature with which Bill Wesley Frasier, 703 00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:18.440 I mean, he's fairly consistent with that book now, okay, 704 00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:20.920 and and has been for the past several years. But 705 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.719 even when he showed up at a later conference to 706 00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:29.360 just you know, explain his story, right, we'd all seen 707 00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:32.440 it for years, but it was told in a very 708 00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:35.199 different way, straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. 709 00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:38.559 At the conference. Plus people get to ask questions. That 710 00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:42.519 changes the way things are. We've seen the children of 711 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:48.920 witnesses come out, including Marita Lorenz's daughter, right, we've seen 712 00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:54.280 Roch Jeremy's son my right, Marcati's was also. I mean, 713 00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:56.920 there there's been generations now that. 714 00:40:56.840 --> 00:40:59.400 Have got at Jerry Patrick. Hemmy that that has to 715 00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:00.320 be one of the. 716 00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:02.159 Well I was going to go there next. 717 00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:05.760 If you've never met Jerry Patrick coming and you just 718 00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:08.199 see his remarks online and that sort of thing, it's 719 00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:13.840 hard to appreciate his presence. Jerry was an intimidating individual, 720 00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:17.920 but again this was a fascinating He agreed to come, 721 00:41:18.039 --> 00:41:20.679 and some of the researchers from Miami came who had 722 00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:24.760 knew him and talking with him, and in essence, Jerry's 723 00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.880 story was going to be about how his inter Pin 724 00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:34.159 group had been invited to provide security for JFK when 725 00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:38.760 he came to Miami in October of nineteen sixty three. Okay, 726 00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:44.559 so this is Jerry's story. And when Jerry tells the story, it's, 727 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:46.800 you know, this is like the big guy in the 728 00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:50.039 bar telling the story, you know, like a Jim Crochy song. 729 00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:53.119 You don't you know, don't spit in this guy's

whatever. 730 00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:57.599 And one of our older researchers from Miami who had 731 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:01.760 brought Jerry got up and did a whole of visuals 732 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:07.119 from the arrival of JFK at the airport, full panoramic views. 733 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:09.719 You can see everybody is around, none of him means 734 00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:14.119 people are there, okay, and he turns and goes, so 735 00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:18.280 where were you, Jerry? Now, if you want a fascinating moment, 736 00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.280 that was a fascinating moment. Jerry just kind of stone wall. 737 00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:25.920 It's sort of like, well they did, we were covert, 738 00:42:26.199 --> 00:42:29.599 we were proud of security. Nobody saw us. Okay, got 739 00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:30.159 it right. 740 00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:35.519 Well, and here's the thing. Heming is a fascinating character. 741 00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:37.480 I mean, if you just go and do and I 742 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:39.719 just decided to do this just for fun, just go 743 00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:43.280 do a quick internet search right to actually meet a 744 00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:48.440 guy who can be described in this way. Okay, you know, 745 00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:51.519 the leader of a group of anti communist Soldiers of 746 00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:55.360 Fortune who trained anti Castro Cubans in the early nineteen sixties. 747 00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:02.840 There is that descriptor alone is enough, right, you know, 748 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.960 the people that he ran across, depending on whether you 749 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:11.679 believe every story or not, is remarkable. But also the 750 00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:14.119 idea that this guy started at church what was it 751 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:16.679 called the Society of the Discordian. 752 00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:20.760 Uh, I'm sorry no, that was different. But actually he 753 00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:25.280 and Frank Sturgis together started well, they started a church 754 00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:29.480 and then they started a Benevolent Society to do collections 755 00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:33.679 to you know, support the community. And it's like, well, okay, 756 00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:37.039 not the two guys I've necessarily seen that. Could I 757 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:38.119 see their paperwork? 758 00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:39.480 You know? 759 00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:45.800 It's I will say, to just relate another anecdote from 760 00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:51.000 the conference. Sometimes things happened totally outside the room, Okay, 761 00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:54.840 And this is something you take advantage of. Jerry's brother 762 00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:58.360 came to one of the conferences. This is after Jerry 763 00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:02.199 had passed away. Actually, so okay, sometime. 764 00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:03.719 After two thousand and eight then, because I think he 765

00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:04.760 died in two thousand and eight. 766 00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:08.760 Yeah, Now I was probably twelve or fourteen something like that, 767 00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:13.039 and he wasn't speaking. It was he just wanted to 768 00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:15.599 be there and he wanted to listen to people. And 769 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:18.480 so I didn't know he was coming. I had not 770 00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:22.440 met him. I talked to Noel Twicement a lot because 771 00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:27.440 he had Jerry's brother, and Roy Hargroves had done extended 772 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:31.199 interviews with Twyman. But so I approached him in the hall. 773 00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:33.960 I said, well, here's who I am, and here's how 774 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.719 I know Jerry and I know you visited with Noel. 775 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:39.800 And by the way, you do know that we put 776 00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:43.920 your interview transcript into my first book. And he said, yeah, 777 00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:47.840 I know. And I said, and you know that you 778 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.559 threatened ol so much that Noel made me take it 779 00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:53.360 out of the second edition. And he said, well, we 780 00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:56.559 really didn't mean to do that. You know. It's like, okay, 781 00:44:57.159 --> 00:44:59.119 and this guy is about him he'd size so he's 782 00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:02.079 twice my size anyway, So okay, all right, so good. 783 00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:04.360 I don't need to be intimidated. But then what he 784 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.440 went on to do was make a very kind of 785 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:11.920 important comment that just helped me with my understanding. He said, Now, 786 00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:14.960 what I want to tell you is Jerry knew a 787 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.239 lot of people who had done a lot of things, 788 00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:22.239 and Jerry determined early on that he had to mix 789 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.840 his information because people might have thought that he was 790 00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:29.559 a threat to them. So Jerry intentionally said true things 791 00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:33.920 and untrue things, and he did it very consistently, so 792 00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:38.400 he would never be a credible source. I'm going Jerry, 793 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:41.199 his brother is telling me he'd made himself not to 794 00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:44.480 be a credible source to not put himself at risk. 795 00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:48.599 Now that's really interesting. That's a Hallway conversation only. 796 00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:53.599 He intentionally discredited himself for his own protection. I mean, 797 00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:56.480 is that is that about what I meant to take 798 00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:57.400 from that? 799 00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:01.519 That's absolutely it, So that people think about it, think 800 00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:05.400 about the

Roselle story. Roselli was safe up until the 801 00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:09.199 point that people began to suspect that he was actually 802 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:13.599 revealing too much. I think Jimman was smart enough to go, 803 00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:18.760 you know. I mean, he had told the old Twyman 804 00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:22.119 that he was aware of the conspiracy and that he 805 00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:25.960 chose not to quote unquote get on that train, which 806 00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:30.760 suggests that he had dangerous information. But how do you 807 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:34.880 handle that people know you have that information. It's not 808 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:37.159 like this flight out of Dallas guy who gets away. 809 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:41.119 You know, if people like Roselli gets killed, that there 810 00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:44.039 are people that might be at risk. You know, David 811 00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:48.960 Morales dies mysteriously, so h I mean, just thought it 812 00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:53.599 was safer to not be someone that anyone wouldn't want 813 00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:55.440 to call to offer testimony. 814 00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:00.800 Look, I understand on the war on hand, but on 815 00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:03.559 the other hand, it's it's just a wild story too, 816 00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:06.280 it is, and who knows. 817 00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:10.320 But again, having having seen the fact that Jerry did 818 00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:14.920 offer different information to different people. If you were Joan Mellon, 819 00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:18.519 for example, you know, you would get to be very 820 00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:22.199 skeptical about you know, did did I get fat information? 821 00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:24.719 What's true and what's false? And I think that was 822 00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:28.960 the That's pretty much a Hemming m o. He was 823 00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:32.719 a combination of true and false, and he is from 824 00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:36.760 my personal encounters with him, he was an extremely bright individual. 825 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:41.400 I determined early on that Hemming was a lot brighter 826 00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:44.000 and a lot quicker than I was. And the thought 827 00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.960 that I was ever going to get anything out of 828 00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:49.760 him directly that or take him anywhere I wanted to go, 829 00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:51.920 it was just out of my mind. He was a 830 00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:53.039 really bright guy. 831 00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:55.440 Well, you might disagree with me on this, Larry, but 832 00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:57.599 I would always suggest that people look at Adam go 833 00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:02.880 Rightley's work on him because it is taken with many 834 00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:06.000 grains of salt. Let's say, you know, and with a 835 00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:09.360 different attitude. Are you familiar with Adam. 836 00:48:09.119

--> 00:48:11.599 Go Rightly No, I can't say that I am, all right. 837 00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:14.480 I would suggest that you look that up and and 838 00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:18.280 take a look at his treatment of Heming, because although 839 00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:20.760 it does inform us about a great many things that 840 00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:26.480 Heming allegedly informed us about, it's an interesting treatment that 841 00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:29.079 you know, a lot of people in the assassination community 842 00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:33.639 didn't take too seriously, but others did. And it's it's 843 00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:36.000 really fascinating because I think it actually sticks with the 844 00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:40.719 spirit of what heming was doing himself for the most part. 845 00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:44.199 And yeah, Adam go Rightley's a weird sort of writer 846 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:44.880 by the way. 847 00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:48.519 Yeah, and I will have to say it. I always 848 00:48:48.519 --> 00:48:51.960 took him in very seriously. It's just that I determined 849 00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:54.000 that I didn't think I could do anything with him. 850 00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:56.880 That's the trouble. And you know, and here we go again. 851 00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:00.440 There's a lot of information that gets shared. And I 852 00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:04.599 gotta say that sometimes, you know, during these conferences there's 853 00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:08.639 information there that you know, some some of those super 854 00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:12.559 anxious people in the front row get a little bit like, oh, 855 00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:14.199 come on, I already know this, you know, move on, 856 00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:17.920 give me something new, something new. And I've observed that, 857 00:49:18.239 --> 00:49:20.719 you know, every time that I've been at a conference 858 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:24.800 where there's like, you know, come on, come on, news new, 859 00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.920 something new, you know, and uh, it's it's really interesting 860 00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:32.480 to observe the different levels and uh, and and some 861 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:35.119 of those hallway conversations that take place or the or 862 00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:40.559 the conversations or meetings of interesting individuals that take place, 863 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:46.199 say in the book room. You know, I ran into 864 00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:50.159 a guy in that book room who was the strangest 865 00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:53.000 individual of anybody I've run into in a conference. I'm 866 00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:56.679 not going to name them, but he's a name you'd know, Larry, 867 00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:02.039 and he uh, he was an awkward guy, just a 868 00:50:02.199 --> 00:50:05.880 very awkward sort of guy who has written on this topic, 869 00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:08.920 who has co authored things with other people. Now you 870 00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.599 might know who it is based on that, but I mean, 871 00:50:11.800 --> 00:50:14.960 but just a very strange in person meeting this guy was. 872 00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:20.559 And some people like John Newman, Okay, John Newman, you're 873 00:50:20.599 --> 00:50:23.039 talking about showing up almost stressed as a ninja the 874 00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:27.079 one time. But another time, even in twenty seventeen, he 875 00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:32.159 showed up with some Asian looking garbon. But people were 876 00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:35.239 used to John by then. You know, it was a 877 00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:40.119 little different by then, right because John had shown us 878 00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:43.119 many different things, and John always goes into some very 879 00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:50.519 very densely populated documentary information. Right, So you got all 880 00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:53.199 that stuff, and then you've got other people that lay 881 00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:56.239 out some of the very basic information and really give us, 882 00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:59.039 you know, a refresher course on stuff that we already 883 00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:02.199 studied and then try and take it into a new direction. 884 00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:06.280 And I say, there's a variety of this all the 885 00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:08.760 way across the board. And it's interesting because we got 886 00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:10.280 some of these younger people that are going to be 887 00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:14.239 talking about photographic evidence. Again, you mentioned Jack White, and 888 00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:17.320 Jack White, just to be fair, was one of these 889 00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:20.519 guys who you know, for years was one of the 890 00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:25.239 most prominent people talking about the backyard photographs, the Zapruder film. 891 00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:28.880 Of course he was talking about, you know, different things 892 00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:32.719 that were evident in the evidence. Let's say that the 893 00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:36.119 public could observe one way or another. I'm not saying 894 00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:38.119 that I agreed with everything Jack White had to say, 895 00:51:38.199 --> 00:51:41.840 for sure. I don't know anybody who actually does agree 896 00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:44.880 with everything Jack White had to say, because Jack White 897 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:49.360 was a unique individual. But I don't know if you remember. 898 00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:51.360 There was even the videotape for a little while that 899 00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:55.519 was almost like dressed up as a news video. Yes, 900 00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:58.599 that went around. You know, Lee Rby Oswald's backyard photos 901 00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:02.880 have been faked worldwide. He was exposed. It was kind of, 902 00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:05.719 you know, silly looking when you took take a look 903 00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:09.280 at it today. But

I mean that went on and 904 00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:11.920 the collaborations that went on some people that you didn't 905 00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:16.760 name during this discussion, that that that caused other collaborations 906 00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:21.480 and interactions to occur. That's another thing that happens. People 907 00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:24.480 get together and decide they're going to work together or 908 00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:29.079 share information, or maybe assist somebody else with their work. 909 00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:32.719 You could be present for these things, or you might 910 00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:36.360 have a piece of information you personally listening, not not you, Larry, 911 00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:39.920 you know that you want to share or that you 912 00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:43.119 want to check up on. You know, like I said 913 00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:46.239 on the recent show with Robert Groden, it's interesting enough 914 00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:51.119 that you've got Robert Groden there. Because Bob was involved 915 00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:56.079 with the HSCA. Everybody who's ever delved into the case 916 00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:58.280 in the past half century knows about the man who 917 00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:01.960 killed Kennedy. He was a prominent figure in that documentary series. 918 00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:04.119 Regardless of what you think of the information in it, 919 00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:07.840 you know, Bob has been part of a lot of stuff. 920 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:10.400 He was part of that whole. Let's tell the story 921 00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:14.119 about what the Russians were doing right during that time, 922 00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:16.760 the Russian investigation. You remember there was a TV special 923 00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:20.599 on that Bob assisted with the JFK movie. I mean, 924 00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:22.400 if you just take a look at the different points 925 00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:24.800 at which Bob Goroden has been involved with the case, 926 00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:28.239 the media regarding the case. Everything from showing this zu 927 00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:32.360 Bruder film on her Roaldos TV show to literally getting 928 00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:35.519 a cameo in the movie JFK. Bob Goroden has been 929 00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:38.679 involved in these things. That guy's going to be there 930 00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:40.840 also having worked. 931 00:53:40.599 --> 00:53:44.119 As part of this some kind of spontaneous too. Last year, 932 00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:48.880 you remember, Chuck, we had basically we managed to during 933 00:53:48.920 --> 00:53:53.880 the presentation, the speaker said, look, this person is chosen 934 00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:56.719 to attend the conference. She's here now. We weren't sure 935 00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:59.280 if he was coming, and we got managed to get 936 00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:04.000 her on stage and addressing, and Gail nick Jackson just 937 00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:08.000 added a tremendous amount of detail the presentation. But that 938 00:54:08.199 --> 00:54:12.400 was not planned. She just decided to come to verily 939 00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:14.719 last minute. We managed to get her up on the 940 00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:18.159 stage and so and sometimes you don't know exactly what 941 00:54:18.280 --> 00:54:20.920 is going to happen at the conference until it happens. 942 00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:23.239 Oh yeah, well I'll tell people that story because I 943 00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:27.119 was involved in that. Gail showed up and showed up 944 00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:29.079 the first day just to kind of poke her head 945 00:54:29.079 --> 00:54:32.599 in and say hi, because she knew you know, a 946 00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:34.599 couple of us that had done podcasts with her and 947 00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:38.880 this and that about the Missing Nick's film, right, And 948 00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:41.480 she wound up talking to everybody and saying, you know, 949 00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:43.480 I've got this piece of information that you know some 950 00:54:43.519 --> 00:54:46.360 of us behind the scenes. And we said, well, you 951 00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:50.599 know what, we were going to do a panel about 952 00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:55.039 some of the things you're talking about, Gail, and we'd 953 00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:57.559 love to have you be part of it. And you know, 954 00:54:57.639 --> 00:54:59.760 you don't. We kind of pitched it to her as 955 00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:01.079 you know, don't have to do much, but if you 956 00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:03.039 want to bring up some of this, you know, stuff 957 00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:05.159 that you've been able to research that you haven't put 958 00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:07.639 in a book yet, if you want to offer your 959 00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.320 books here, I mean, come on and join us. Now. 960 00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:13.280 She was not scheduled, was not planned. I don't even 961 00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:15.480 think anybody was certain that she was going to poke 962 00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:19.320 her head in and say hi. That year. And the 963 00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.440 next thing you know is we're setting up a special panel, 964 00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:26.760 which you wound up participating in. We put Larry up there, 965 00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:31.639 we put Doug Campbell up there, and I was moved 966 00:55:31.679 --> 00:55:34.760 off of the panel. I personally volunteered to be moved 967 00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:36.800 off of the panel because we ran out of microphones. 968 00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:42.480 That's a true story. And we put Gail there and 969 00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:45.679 next thing I know is look, and I love you, Gail, 970 00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:48.559 you know that. But the thing is you dominated the panel. 971 00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:54.360 And she presented for about an hour information that nobody 972 00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:58.039

else has actually researched, nobody else has dug into as 973 00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:00.400 deeply as she has it yet that I know of, 974 00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:04.679 regarding a whole bunch of ancillary figures that are sort 975 00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:09.320 of tangentially connected to stuff like the Walker shooting, okay, 976 00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:12.280 or the Walker attempted shooting. 977 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:16.800 I should her and made me take a look at 978 00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:19.280 her book, which I had not looked at before, and 979 00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:22.719 had a significant impact on the book I have coming 980 00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:25.199 out in January. But you know that none of that 981 00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:28.960 was planned. You know, I knew Gael from the Knicks film. 982 00:56:29.559 --> 00:56:32.280 I did not know Gayel from the Walker shooting. 983 00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:36.519 You know, we exactly like I said, I have done podcasts. 984 00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:39.000 I've done multiple podcasts with her in the past about 985 00:56:39.039 --> 00:56:41.440 the Knicks film and the search board and the attempt 986 00:56:41.480 --> 00:56:44.119 to recover it. And you know that we also know 987 00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:47.239 there's actively legal action against the government to try and 988 00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.119 you know, et cetera, et cetera. But she's saying at 989 00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:52.079 that point in time, even when she showed up. I'm 990 00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:55.320 not I can't comment about that right now because my 991 00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:58.920 lawyers have told me I cannot, but you know what 992 00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:01.480 else I've been doing, and she started sharing all this 993 00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:05.639 stuff and it was just amazing, And meanwhile it wound 994 00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:07.639 up having an impact on what you're see and there 995 00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:11.840 you go, completely unplanned, unscripted. It wasn't a huge controversy, 996 00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:16.400 no fistfights or near fistfights, but definitely something that just 997 00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:19.360 sort of happened organically at the conference. 998 00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:23.760 Larry, right, absolutely, and that's a good word to capture it. 999 00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:29.000 And that's why you know, certainly remote attending watching the 1000 00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:33.880 presentations as great, but that you can't totally replace that 1001 00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:41.599 by essentially organically participating in the conference in person and 1002 00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:44.639 meeting these people and talking to people whose books you 1003 00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:51.400 might have read or it's just kind of an existential experience, right, 1004 00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:55.960 So if you're in I certainly recommend both the conference 1005 00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:58.599 in person and certainly being in Dallas in person to 1006 00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:01.079 experience y is steely Plaza. 1007 00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:05.159 Oh, absolutely true. And not only that, but you know, 1008 00:58:05.320 --> 00:58:08.760 like I had Joe Borelli on here and of course 1009 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:11.599 we nicknamed him Scooter Joe because a little accident he had. 1010 00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:14.239 But I mean stuff like that you couldn't be present 1011 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:17.840 for and you wouldn't get on the virtual attendance. But 1012 00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:22.039 other things including you know, I show up on Thursday 1013 00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:25.760 night right to you know, to check into the hotel 1014 00:58:26.320 --> 00:58:29.679 last year, and suddenly I was being told, well, you 1015 00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:33.119 wanted to go over to Campezes while you're here in Dallas. 1016 00:58:33.159 --> 00:58:37.119 And what is Campezes? But the restaurant you mentioned earlier, Larry, 1017 00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:39.320 which is a place where Jack Ruby used to eat, 1018 00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:43.079 happens to have been owned by the same family that. Yes, indeed, 1019 00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:46.599 the Campezee brothers who were known mob figures in Dallas 1020 00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:50.440 in sixty three, you know, one of them having visited 1021 00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:54.519 Jack Ruby after he was arrested for shooting Oswald, et cetera. 1022 00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:58.800 You know, it's still owned by the same family, that restaurant, 1023 00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:01.559 and in fact, the locate that I went to is 1024 00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:04.639 the original location that has a sign near a table 1025 00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:06.320 that says, you know, this is the table the Jack 1026 00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:07.119 Ruby ate at. 1027 00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:09.800 The Jack Ruby Booth. Yes, you don't want to miss that. 1028 00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:12.119 Right, so you have that. But I show up there 1029 00:59:12.239 --> 00:59:14.199 and what is there but in the center of the 1030 00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:18.679 restaurant effectively a huge long group together bunch of tables 1031 00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:24.280 from Daley Plaza UK effectively is all lined up like 1032 00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:27.199 twenty some odd people lined up in one massive group 1033 00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:31.519 in the middle of the restaurant. Okay, And I show 1034 00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:35.039 up afterwards with Gabby and I think Bob Groden was 1035 00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.559 at the end of the table with me. B Pete 1036 00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:40.039 was with me, you know a few other people and 1037 00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:42.119 we just kind of showed up there and you know, 1038 00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:46.800 added ourselves in with the Daley Plaza UK group, which 1039 00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:50.760 are all people that came over from England. Ireland. We 1040 00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:56.360 had Johnny

Carnes right, who presented last year at the conference, 1041 00:59:56.440 --> 00:59:59.639 but a bunch of people who came from overseas who 1042 00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:03.000 have taken you know, interest and hold these virtual conferences 1043 01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:06.079 over there a couple of times a year, Larry, right, 1044 01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:08.840 didn't you just recently participate in one not too long ago? 1045 01:00:08.920 --> 01:00:10.000 Or was that? 1046 01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:14.840 I've did go to England one time to present a 1047 01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:18.199 conference at Canterbury and have presented at their annual conferences 1048 01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:21.679 every year for well over a decade, I'm sure. 1049 01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:26.559 And sometimes it's virtual for you, right, yeah, yeah, but 1050 01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:30.159 I mean and they're constantly working on wholly different stuff 1051 01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:33.199 from what you see over here, and it was just 1052 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:35.400 really great to see like twenty of them in a 1053 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:39.599 restaurant all together, you know, having the same idea, let's 1054 01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:44.519 go eat at Campezes. Again. That's the kind of experience that, 1055 01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:46.760 you know, I'm sitting there with Bob, I'm sitting there 1056 01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:51.199 with you know, all these people from overseas, and we're 1057 01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:53.679 all at the same table. We can't even possibly have 1058 01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:56.800 a full on conversation around a table with twenty people though, 1059 01:00:57.639 --> 01:01:01.239 you know. So, so there's several conversation going on right 1060 01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:07.760 around the JFK center of the restaurant in Dallas, Texas. Actually, 1061 01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:10.400 wait a minute, Campezes. Is that just outside of Dallas 1062 01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:12.119 or I always it's outside. 1063 01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:15.199 It's west of down There is a Campezies downtown, but 1064 01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:19.800 the other one is at more towards the old airport, 1065 01:01:19.960 --> 01:01:22.760 so you had to drive away to ways to get there. Yeah, 1066 01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:24.079 it's outside of downtown. 1067 01:01:24.199 --> 01:01:26.920 The one that's outside of downtown is the original location 1068 01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:29.239 though right rrect Yeah, okay, so that's the one you see. 1069 01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:31.159 I don't drive, so I don't know these things, but 1070 01:01:31.239 --> 01:01:33.760 I got a ride over there, and there we are 1071 01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:37.559 at the original Campezes restaurant. But like I said, you know, 1072 01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:39.840 who knows who you might run into if you had 1073 01:01:39.880 --> 01:01:42.039 gone there the next day or the next night or 1074 01:01:42.079 --> 01:01:48.480 the next lunchtime. Who knows, right, It's it's just really interesting. 1075 01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:51.599 Not only that, but occasionally there's little meetings at the bars, 1076 01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:54.920 whether it's the hotel bar or it's you know, the 1077 01:01:54.920 --> 01:01:57.800 one that's just down the street that everybody starts talking about, Hey, 1078 01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:00.159 this is a good place to go, you know, and 1079 01:02:00.280 --> 01:02:02.360 all of a sudden, a group of people you wouldn't 1080 01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:05.920 even expect to be together are together at a booth 1081 01:02:06.039 --> 01:02:07.960 or a table, or just happen to be sitting at 1082 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:13.119 a bar. The strangest combinations of people indeed end up in. 1083 01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:15.679 Places and you can sit you'll sit down with names 1084 01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:19.440 of the people that wrote the books, or the conference 1085 01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:22.000 really does go on until midnight. It just happens to 1086 01:02:22.039 --> 01:02:22.679 go on in the. 1087 01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:25.039 Bar, right. A lot of times goes on a bar 1088 01:02:25.159 --> 01:02:27.760 or restaurant or something else. And like I said, I mean, 1089 01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:30.800 Campses kind of seemed to close early compared to some 1090 01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:34.280 of the other stuff that was going on. And even 1091 01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:36.800 when I and you know, there's also other meetings. Now 1092 01:02:36.880 --> 01:02:39.519 here's one you don't know about Larry, but always there 1093 01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:42.480 ends up being a smoking section, let's call it. Okay, 1094 01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:45.119 so the guys that are gonna vape and smoke all 1095 01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:47.559 end up in the same place, and you'd be, uh, 1096 01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:50.559 you'd be rather interested to see if you're you know, 1097 01:02:50.599 --> 01:02:53.880 somebody who vapes or smokes. Again, I'm not suggesting it 1098 01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:55.840 as a as a home game for anybody, but I 1099 01:02:55.880 --> 01:02:58.440 happen to be a smoker, so I'm privy to this. 1100 01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:01.760 The weirdest groups of people end up in that smoking section, 1101 01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:05.280 And if you're going out to get a cigarette, you 1102 01:03:05.320 --> 01:03:08.079 could run into three four people that you know either 1103 01:03:08.199 --> 01:03:12.239 they're podcasters you listen to, or you know they're they're 1104 01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:14.559 guys who have done films, or there are guys who 1105 01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:18.960 have YouTube channels, et cetera, et cetera. You know, they're 1106 01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:21.440 the Chokeholds guys. They're the guys you heard on Coast 1107 01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:24.599 to Coast AM. You won't find Larry Hancock in the 1108 01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:28.079 smoking section, especially now last year in the bar,

but 1109 01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:30.719 Larry you could have found in the bar, not this year, 1110 01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:35.840 but but yeah, unfortunately, But I really hope that you 1111 01:03:36.199 --> 01:03:39.039 get a good handle on the Facebook group, which should 1112 01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:42.079 be live during the conference as far as I know, 1113 01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:45.159 and a few other things like that. I mean, the 1114 01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:48.599 virtual attendance ought to be interesting. But of course if 1115 01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:51.119 you can figure a way to attend it there live, 1116 01:03:51.480 --> 01:03:55.480 I would suggest it, because you're guaranteed this it will 1117 01:03:55.519 --> 01:03:58.880 be unique and you will run into people, especially if 1118 01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:02.280 you're well steeped in the literature, if you're well familiar 1119 01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:05.440 with films, with podcasts, with other media that's been created, 1120 01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:09.599 et cetera. You know, surrounding the case, you're going to 1121 01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:12.559 run into some of those people. And sometimes they're just 1122 01:04:12.599 --> 01:04:18.719 attendees even you know, I've seen people attend that are interestingly. 1123 01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:21.760 Pat Spear, I have not seen him do a presentation live, 1124 01:04:22.360 --> 01:04:25.400 but I've run into him a few times in Dallas 1125 01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:26.559 right now. 1126 01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:30.320 Malcolm Blunt routinely one of the gurus in their research 1127 01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:35.679 it routinely and never presented, ever, ever presented. He would 1128 01:04:35.719 --> 01:04:38.400 be hovering out in the hallway. We always accused him 1129 01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:42.039 of like, oh, there's Malcolm behind a potted plant, and 1130 01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:44.760 he would have documents in his jacket, and you know, 1131 01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:47.519 never and this is one of the guys who knows 1132 01:04:47.559 --> 01:04:51.519 more about the documentary record than anybody else. So now 1133 01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:54.360 a lot of times there are people that don't present 1134 01:04:54.440 --> 01:04:55.960 that you really need to get to know. 1135 01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:02.840 No, absolutely true, And there have been various interesting things 1136 01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:05.199 that have happened in the hallways regarding that, where you 1137 01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:07.960 have somebody who's attending that's well known, but they're just 1138 01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:11.079 not doing a presentation that particular year, and we have 1139 01:05:11.119 --> 01:05:13.599 no way of knowing who may or may not show 1140 01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:16.360 up there. I gotta be honest with you, So again, 1141 01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:19.119 it's going to be a unique experience and one way 1142 01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:21.320 or another, whether you do it virtually or you go 1143 01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:24.159 in person. But if you can make it to Dallas, 1144 01:05:24.199 --> 01:05:27.480 Texas November twenty second to the twenty fourth, I would 1145 01:05:27.519 --> 01:05:30.039 definitely suggest that you go there. It's at the downtown 1146 01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:35.360 Marriotte and again, Assassinationconference dot com is the website to 1147 01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:37.960 go to so you can a register get your tickets. 1148 01:05:37.960 --> 01:05:41.519 If you use the code Ocelly ten, you'll get ten 1149 01:05:41.559 --> 01:05:45.320 percent off and it makes me look good, okay, So 1150 01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:47.880 the more people that go there and sign up use 1151 01:05:48.199 --> 01:05:52.079 ocelly ten to get ten percent off, the better I'll look. Okay, 1152 01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:55.960 so help me out. But I definitely suggest that you 1153 01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:58.880 attend the conference if you have a deep interest in 1154 01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:02.800 this medium. Interest in this, or a novice interest in this, 1155 01:06:02.920 --> 01:06:06.519 even there will definitely be something for you at the conference. 1156 01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:10.639 And always I've never, you know, either watched a set 1157 01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:13.400 of these videos or been part of one of these things, 1158 01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:17.880 either virtually or in person where I'm not learned you 1159 01:06:17.880 --> 01:06:22.159 know a great deal of new information one way or another, 1160 01:06:23.199 --> 01:06:26.239 and also gotten to hear some remarkable speeches. I'll tell 1161 01:06:26.280 --> 01:06:32.199 you Larry gave a remarkable speech regarding how you know, 1162 01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:36.599 people need to search things a certain way and made 1163 01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:39.000 some interesting statements that I think shook a couple of 1164 01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:43.679 people up last year about you know, at how you 1165 01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:49.320 should responsibly examine things, and even stuff like that has 1166 01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:53.159 been remarkable during these conferences, so I know, we talked 1167 01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:54.840 about that a lot. We talked a little bit about 1168 01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:58.480 Daley Plaza, which is something that guaranteed no matter how 1169 01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:00.880 many documentaries you've seen or how much film you've ever 1170 01:07:00.920 --> 01:07:04.400 seen of it, if you haven't been there, you're missing 1171 01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:08.679 a whole lot of information that quite honestly, I can't 1172 01:07:08.679 --> 01:07:13.480 even put into words regarding experiencing it versus just sort 1173 01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:17.039 of knowing it. We often hear that people don't realize 1174 01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:20.679 how small the area is. That's true, but there's a 1175 01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:22.880 lot more to it than just the sheer

size of 1176 01:07:22.920 --> 01:07:27.199 the area and how tightly put together all these events were. 1177 01:07:27.519 --> 01:07:30.440 If you think about the fact that the killing of Oswald, 1178 01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:35.360 the killing of Kennedy, the jailing of Jack Ruby, all 1179 01:07:35.400 --> 01:07:38.559 of these things, the Zuppruder film itself, all of these 1180 01:07:38.599 --> 01:07:43.519 things occur within like the same block. You know, it's like, 1181 01:07:43.719 --> 01:07:47.320 it's really amazing when you take a look at the 1182 01:07:47.360 --> 01:07:49.559 small area in which all these things occur. 1183 01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:53.960 And I wouldn't want to it's not firm, but I 1184 01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.760 will guarantee you that there is more and more talk. 1185 01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:59.199 Dallas really wants to redo that plaza. 1186 01:07:59.519 --> 01:08:00.239 Oh man. 1187 01:08:00.320 --> 01:08:02.360 So while I can say right at the moment that 1188 01:08:02.440 --> 01:08:04.760 it looks ninety ninety five percent the way it did 1189 01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:08.400 in nineteen sixty three, Dallas will redo that plausea at 1190 01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:11.159 some point in time, and you really won't recognize it 1191 01:08:11.199 --> 01:08:14.079 when they do. They Dallas is not happy with that 1192 01:08:14.079 --> 01:08:19.600 plaza for many many reasons. But fortunately the good news 1193 01:08:19.640 --> 01:08:22.479 it's still still much like it was. You can still 1194 01:08:22.520 --> 01:08:26.079 walk it. But we really don't know. They've tried several 1195 01:08:26.119 --> 01:08:28.159 times in one of these years they're going to make it. 1196 01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:32.159 Well, yeah, and they've talked about really mutilating the area. 1197 01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:35.119 Like you said, it is relatively like it was in 1198 01:08:35.199 --> 01:08:38.199 nineteen sixty three. It's not perfect, and it's been you know, Look, 1199 01:08:38.239 --> 01:08:41.520 they resurfaced some stuff. They had to replace a bunch 1200 01:08:41.560 --> 01:08:43.840 of missing wood out of the fence because people were 1201 01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:46.119 stealing you know, a plant out of the fence. 1202 01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:48.079 This is the twentieth version of the fence. 1203 01:08:48.279 --> 01:08:50.560 Yeah, I mean, you know it. Look, there's a bunch 1204 01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:57.000 of but it's still relatively like the crime scene was. Okay, 1205 01:08:56.760 --> 01:08:59.119 but you know what if they get their way. They're 1206 01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:03.399 talking about, you know, basically eliminating the street, eliminating you know, areas, 1207 01:09:03.439 --> 01:09:06.840 putting in new pools and all kinds of stuff. I mean, 1208 01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:12.560 they might truly destroy that historic site completely so that 1209 01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:15.840 you'll only be able to experience it in photographs. Uh,

1210 01:09:16.159 --> 01:09:17.840 you know, and they and and like you said, that 1211 01:09:17.960 --> 01:09:21.399 is something that keeps coming up. And uh yeah, I 1212 01:09:21.399 --> 01:09:22.920 think eventually one of these. 1213 01:09:22.840 --> 01:09:24.960 Days has the plans drawn. It's just a matter of 1214 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:27.199 fact when they get the funny end actually doing anything, 1215 01:09:27.199 --> 01:09:28.800 they know exactly what they want to do. 1216 01:09:29.159 --> 01:09:31.640 Yeah. Well, and and like you said, but there's been 1217 01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:34.439 several versions of that. You know, let's just tear it down. 1218 01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:36.560 Let's just you know, I mean all kinds of stuff, 1219 01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:39.960 close the area to traffic, uh, you know, all kinds 1220 01:09:39.960 --> 01:09:44.479 of things they might do which would destroy the experience 1221 01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:48.079 that is still available to you, you know, and some 1222 01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:51.239 things have been destroyed already and and been mutilated a 1223 01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:54.760 bit already. But like you said, it's still you know, 1224 01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:57.880 you still have a relative experience to what was. 1225 01:09:58.680 --> 01:09:58.960 Uh. 1226 01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:02.159 But if they get their way, it'll not be recognizable. Larry, 1227 01:10:02.199 --> 01:10:03.279 I mean you agree with that. 1228 01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:07.279 Right, Oh yeah, yeah, it's just not pretty enough. 1229 01:10:08.279 --> 01:10:10.199 Well, there you have it. So look, I know I've 1230 01:10:10.239 --> 01:10:12.439 gone over an hour with Larry Hancock, but I think 1231 01:10:12.439 --> 01:10:15.479 I've given you guys a good reason to check out 1232 01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:19.199 Lancer to go if you can go the twenty second 1233 01:10:19.239 --> 01:10:23.039 of the twenty fourth of November this month. I mean literally, 1234 01:10:23.119 --> 01:10:25.840 we're talking what twelve days, right, yeah, twelve days No, 1235 01:10:25.960 --> 01:10:28.560 ten days from now, excuse me, ten days from when 1236 01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:31.479 I'm speaking to you. On the twenty second, it's going 1237 01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:35.560 to sync up right with the anniversary of the dates 1238 01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:39.680 that are relevant here on the twenty second of November, 1239 01:10:39.960 --> 01:10:42.760 on a Friday, this starts, and it'll go to the 1240 01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:46.399 twenty fourth that Sunday, you know, when Oswald was killed 1241 01:10:47.439 --> 01:10:50.279 as it happened, you could be there, you know, sixty 1242 01:10:50.279 --> 01:10:52.680 one years later as opposed to sixty years later like 1243 01:10:52.720 --> 01:10:55.159 it was last year. I will be there as the MC. 1244 01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:59.199 Larry will be participating virtually, and there is a whole 1245 01:10:59.399 --> 01:11:02.479 list of speakers and things that should be going on 1246 01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:05.319 and are planned to go on, and who knows what 1247 01:11:05.479 --> 01:11:08.520 might occur that is unplanned as we just got done 1248 01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:11.800 discussing here for the past hour plus. So Larry, I 1249 01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:13.560 want to thank you for doing this. Anything you want 1250 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:15.359 to drop on us on the way out the door, 1251 01:11:15.399 --> 01:11:17.800 because all I want people to remember is that you 1252 01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:21.880 can follow Larry's work going to Larry Dashandcock dot com 1253 01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:25.000 and keep track of it. I'm sure Larry will blog 1254 01:11:25.039 --> 01:11:28.399 about this at some point and all that good stuff. 1255 01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:32.159 Who knows, but you know, go over there. And oh, 1256 01:11:32.199 --> 01:11:35.279 by the way, I recommend all of Larry's books and 1257 01:11:35.319 --> 01:11:38.840 you can learn about those at Larrydashhandcock dot com. Anything 1258 01:11:38.840 --> 01:11:41.520 you want to drop on us on your way out, Larry, No, just. 1259 01:11:41.439 --> 01:11:43.319 Wish I could be there. I guess the only one 1260 01:11:43.319 --> 01:11:45.520 thing I would add if people haven't taken a look 1261 01:11:45.560 --> 01:11:48.079 at the virtual side of the conference is I know 1262 01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:52.159 there has always been a problem for some people getting there, 1263 01:11:52.159 --> 01:11:54.720 and if you can't get there. One of the advantages 1264 01:11:54.840 --> 01:11:57.399 today that you have of the virtual viewing that we 1265 01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:00.800 never had before when we just recorded the conferences and 1266 01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:03.760 put them on CDs is if you do sign up 1267 01:12:03.760 --> 01:12:07.920 for the virtual viewing the conference, all the presentation content 1268 01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:11.560 is available for two for what is it, the end 1269 01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:14.199 of January, a fair period of time, so you can 1270 01:12:14.239 --> 01:12:17.800 come listen to it at your discretion if you had 1271 01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:21.039 to be at work on Friday or whatever. So that's 1272 01:12:22.079 --> 01:12:24.640 one great advantage is it's archived in a way that 1273 01:12:24.680 --> 01:12:25.880 we never had before. 1274 01:12:26.319 --> 01:12:28.600 Yeah, you can always and here's the other trick. You 1275 01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:32.239 can take it and download it and have copies for yourself. 1276 01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:35.319 I think there's a slightly different charge so you're able 1277 01:12:35.359 --> 01:12:38.640 to download, but whatever it is, it's worth it, and 1278 01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:41.119 you could watch them on demand just like you watch 1279 01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:45.000 anything else, and even keep copies for yourself. If you 1280 01:12:45.039 -->

01:12:48.600 get the virtual package, the right one, and again you 1281 01:12:48.640 --> 01:12:51.279 go to Assassination Conference dot com and you can sign 1282 01:12:51.399 --> 01:12:55.319 up for it right there and again, Oh, Shelley ten 1283 01:12:55.479 --> 01:12:57.479 is your way to get ten percent off, And that's 1284 01:12:57.520 --> 01:13:00.640 my name and just the number ten one zero, olly 1285 01:13:00.680 --> 01:13:03.279 ten and there's your ten percent off. But again go 1286 01:13:03.319 --> 01:13:06.640 to Larrydashancock dot com. I want to thank Larry for 1287 01:13:07.159 --> 01:13:09.199 getting together with me early on a Tuesday. 1288 01:13:09.199 --> 01:13:19.239 Here Ochili dot com. 1289 01:13:19.319 --> 01:13:22.439 Joe Yelvis, Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action Podcast 1290 01:13:22.520 --> 01:13:25.720 presented by Wall Street Window, and you are listening to 1291 01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:30.720 the o'chilly effect revelation through conversation. 1292 01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:34.279 In Denial The Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks 1293 01:13:34.720 --> 01:13:39.039 by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US 1294 01:13:39.079 --> 01:13:43.319 covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In 1295 01:13:43.479 --> 01:13:47.279 Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. 1296 01:13:47.279 --> 01:13:49.680 It exposes things about the Bay and Pigs that no 1297 01:13:49.760 --> 01:13:51.479 one has ever written about before. 1298 01:13:51.880 --> 01:13:53.319 It shows why it really. 1299 01:13:53.119 --> 01:13:56.520 Failed and why the United States did not learn from it. 1300 01:13:56.520 --> 01:13:59.239 It also shows why other countries today are doing a 1301 01:13:59.279 --> 01:14:02.560 secret operations with more success. This is the book that 1302 01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:07.039 puts what some want to deny into the light. In Denial, 1303 01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:12.760 Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks Larry Hancock. For 1304 01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:16.520 more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick 1305 01:14:16.600 --> 01:14:19.880 up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com 1306 01:14:19.920 --> 01:14:22.560 in digital or physical for Wow, could use express my 1307 01:14:22.600 --> 01:14:24.439 caller schools there anyone else who happens to get on 1308 01:14:24.439 --> 01:14:26.560 the air of Jelly dot com. Do not necessarily replied 1309 01:14:26.600 --> 01:14:28.720 deviews of the Kelly dot com or Chumko Kelly and 1310 01:14:28.840 --> 01:14:31.239 we are not responsible for any stupidity which might exsude. 1311 01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:31.600 Thank you. 1312 01:14:31.800 --> 01:14:34.880 Do you like history? Real history that you were never 1313 01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:39.399 taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in 1314 01:14:39.560 --> 01:14:43.560 nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with 1315 01:14:43.720 --> 01:14:47.960 new documentation never seen before that will open your eyes 1316 01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:51.279 to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam 1317 01:14:51.399 --> 01:14:56.000 War Nuclear Bombs in nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen 1318 01:14:56.159 --> 01:15:00.439 forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today 1319 01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:05.119 at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author 1320 01:15:05.239 --> 01:15:05.920 Mike Swantz. 1321 01:15:06.079 --> 01:15:08.079 This is James Corban at quarter Report dot com and 1322 01:15:08.119 --> 01:15:10.600 you're listening to the Olly affected Olly dot com. 1323 01:15:10.680 --> 01:15:11.760 Nuclear Holocaust. 1324 01:15:12.039 --> 01:15:14.920 You know what uranium is, right, spink called nuclear weapons 1325 01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:17.960 and other things like lots of You know what uranium 1326 01:15:18.039 --> 01:15:18.319 is right? 1327 01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:21.840 Bad things things have done with uranium and commuting some 1328 01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:22.640 bad things. 1329 01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:24.079 Nuclear holocaust. 1330 01:15:24.479 --> 01:15:25.640 You know what uranium is right. 1331 01:15:25.880 --> 01:15:29.359 I've been a nuclear holocaust, nuclear holocaust. 1332 01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:32.039 You know what uranium is, right, the things called nuclear 1333 01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:35.000 weapons and other things like lots of you know what 1334 01:15:35.159 --> 01:15:39.239 uranium is right? Bad things things have done with uranium. 1335 01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:40.279 In commuting some bad things. 1336 01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:48.479 Nuclear holocaust, nuclear holo Holocaust, nuclear holocaust, nuclear holocaust, nuclear holo. 1337 01:15:49.319 --> 01:15:52.159 Dot com radio, go ahead. 1338 01:15:53.479 --> 01:15:55.960 About the day as right, Well, what do you want 1339 01:15:55.960 --> 01:15:56.119 to know? 1340 01:15:56.520 --> 01:16:00.119 Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriend he knew Ruby and there 1341 01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:01.159 answer weapons? 1342 01:16:01.199 --> 01:16:03.520 Really, I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. 1343 01:16:03.520 --> 01:16:04.920 It doesn't make me a wagon, but. 1344 01:16:04.920 --> 01:16:08.399 Okay, I'm building and trying to prevent the murder of 1345 01:16:08.439 --> 01:16:09.079 John Kennedy. 1346 01:16:09.119 --> 01:16:10.199 Come on now has a. 1347 01:16:10.079 --> 01:16:12.000 Real effort on the DAFA assassination. 1348 01:16:13.239 --> 01:16:17.279 Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her 1349 01:16:17.319 --> 01:16:20.199 own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy 1350 01:16:20.239 --> 01:16:23.720 of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words 1351 01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:26.600 and the known evidence of the case to get at 1352 01:16:26.720 --> 01:16:30.159 well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith 1353 01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:33.520 Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself, 1354 01:16:33.640 --> 01:16:36.720 signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at 1355 01:16:36.760 --> 01:16:41.239 ki as jfk at aol dot com. It's a fun 1356 01:16:41.239 --> 01:16:45.640 book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims 1357 01:16:45.920 --> 01:16:48.680 judithbary Baker, in her own words. 1358 01:16:48.279 --> 01:16:49.840 Thank you for all the great information. 1359 01:16:50.239 --> 01:16:53.439 The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national 1360 01:16:53.439 --> 01:16:56.479 transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in 1361 01:16:56.520 --> 01:16:59.880 the context of the times, and reveals never before published 1362 01:16:59.880 --> 01:17:03.520 in information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would 1363 01:17:03.560 --> 01:17:05.920 not have been assassinated if he had been president two 1364 01:17:06.039 --> 01:17:09.600 hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context 1365 01:17:09.680 --> 01:17:11.920 of the Cold War and the rise of the national 1366 01:17:11.920 --> 01:17:12.760 security state. 1367 01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:14.000 Before World War. 1368 01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:16.920 II, the United States was a continental republic. In the 1369 01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:20.720 decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such 1370 01:17:20.760 --> 01:17:23.800 as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but 1371 01:17:23.960 --> 01:17:26.319 knew that there were short range missiles on the island 1372 01:17:26.399 --> 01:17:29.479 armed with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because 1373 01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:32.359 they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led 1374 01:17:32.359 --> 01:17:35.279 to a Third World War, and they wanted to go 1375 01:17:35.319 --> 01:17:39.239 to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals 1376 01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:42.119 why and will show you what President Kennedy was up against. 1377 01:17:42.279 --> 01:17:48.239 For more information, The Warstate dot com revelation through conversation. 1378 01:18:02.239 --> 01:18:42.479 An it's. 1379 01:18:43.880 --> 01:19:06.720 Watch yourself to see everybody on yours lo susten. Nothing 1380 01:19:07.199 --> 01:19:19.439 more I can say from. 1381 01:19:14.840 --> 01:19:22.520 If we got no well sad student come