บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ This Mindset Saved a $100M Brand | Rebecca Minkoff’s Delusional Optimism is Everything

00:03:44.716 --> 00:03:46.457 I feel like that came in to fill the void. 63 00:03:46.777 --> 00:03:53.040 But I think that the going out in the world, meeting people, networking, like that is still how business gets done. 64 00:03:53.061 --> 00:03:55.602 That is still how connections and relationships get made. 65 00:03:55.982 --> 00:03:57.263 But it's harder and harder now. 66 00:03:57.983 --> 00:04:05.287 If you were trying to do that now, what would be the path or like what would your recommendation be to people trying to break into the industry, trying to meet people? 67 00:04:05.527 --> 00:04:07.128 So I had an innate sense of that. 68 00:04:07.148 --> 00:04:10.630 So when I got here, I was like, I got to meet people and I have to network. 69 00:04:10.650 --> 00:04:14.092 And to me, I joke, I counted business cards like it was cash. 70 00:04:14.292 --> 00:04:16.473 Like at night I'd get home and I still have them. 71 00:04:16.493 --> 00:04:25.878 I never got rid of the cards, but I had binders of all the people I'd met just because I just knew that that was the most valuable thing within an industry outside of like my talent. 72 00:04:25.898 --> 00:04:26.538 Yeah. 73 00:04:26.818 --> 00:04:30.200 And I would say if I was starting now, it'd be networking. 74 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:31.861 It's six degrees of separation. 75 00:04:31.881 --> 00:04:38.945 And it's really just being bold enough to ask for the intro, for the connection, and knowing when to. 76 00:04:38.985 --> 00:04:41.406 Like, when is it appropriate to do that? 77 00:04:41.486 --> 00:04:48.530 And I think that you have to have a sense of people and, you know, you can't just outright ask for something without a little bit of foreplay. 78 00:04:51.157 --> 00:04:57.264 What do you think was the season of building Rebecca Minkoff, the brand, that taught you the most? 79 00:04:58.045 --> 00:05:03.992 I think that there were two pivotal time periods where I doubted myself the most. 80 00:05:04.212 --> 00:05:11.140 It's when I had the least confidence and when I just didn't think I had whatever it is anymore. 81 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:11.260 Yeah. 82 00:05:12.121 --> 00:05:24.932 And allowing what then happened, right, a creative director to walk all over me, to disconnect me from my team, and then later on a CMO to also, like, make me completely powerless within my own company. 83 00:05:24.952 --> 00:05:26.373 I don't blame them. 84 00:05:26.874 --> 00:05:31.878 I allowed it to happen because I was so lost within myself personally. 85 00:05:31.938 --> 00:05:39.224 But what came from that was when I bounced back, like a strength and an unwavering certainty, like that'll never happen again. 86 00:05:39.705 --> 00:05:47.912 When you go through something like that, I think when you finally get out of it, you're just like, I might not know it all, but I know way more than these two losers. 87 00:05:48.172 --> 00:05:51.275 And I'll never let anyone take that away from me again. 88 00:05:51.295 --> 00:05:54.058 Yeah, expertise is funny because I... 89 00:05:54.698 --> 00:06:04.340 Obviously, I think hiring good people, people who culturally mesh with the business and who elevate you and make it possible for you to focus on the things you're excellent at. 90 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:08.781 You're a very tricky person for this because you're so identifiably you. 91 00:06:08.821 --> 00:06:15.723 And you really, I mean, I credit you with like romantic grunge, like New York City, downtown hot girl. 92 00:06:15.743 --> 00:06:16.543 Like that was you. 93 00:06:16.603 --> 00:06:21.644 I mean, you really, the leather jackets with the mini skirts, with the chic boots, like it was a whole vibe. 94 00:06:21.764 --> 00:06:22.585 Where did that come from? 95 00:06:22.625 --> 00:06:24.345 Was that just the ether like speaking to you? 96 00:06:24.905 --> 00:06:32.490 I think I've always loved like the little bohemian sort of softer side mixed with rock and roll and like that, that harder edge. 97 00:06:32.510 --> 00:06:33.511 And it's not so hard. 98 00:06:33.531 --> 00:06:37.093 We're not, we're not in like Alexander Wang's neck of the woods. 99 00:06:37.113 --> 00:06:38.214 We're like a little bit north. 100 00:06:38.274 --> 00:06:39.475 Right. 101 00:06:39.915 --> 00:06:40.295 I don't know. 102 00:06:40.335 --> 00:06:41.616 I've always loved that combo. 103 00:06:41.656 --> 00:06:46.059 And that was where we as a brand also identified like the aesthetic. 104 00:06:46.619 --> 00:06:53.122 That there's a girl who lives in Nolita, Soho, or aspires to, and she's just starting out in her career. 105 00:06:53.222 --> 00:07:00.325 And, like, she can throw on the inside leather jacket and a cool pair of shoes and, you know, go to a concert or go to her cool office. 106 00:07:00.926 --> 00:07:03.267 I'm going to ask a personal question. 107 00:07:04.427 --> 00:07:06.088 We're both, you know, 40 now. 108 00:07:07.068 --> 00:07:07.729 Just 40? 109 00:07:07.749 --> 00:07:08.589 Just 40. 110 00:07:08.629 --> 00:07:09.409 We're just 40. 111 00:07:09.429 --> 00:07:10.630 I think I'm a bit older than you. 112 00:07:11.270 --> 00:07:12.371 We're in our 40s. 113 00:07:13.411 --> 00:07:14.812 How does that style evolve? 114 00:07:14.832 --> 00:07:16.273 Because you do it flawlessly. 115 00:07:16.293 --> 00:07:24.637 Like, how do women at our age get to have some of that, like, sexy downtown vibe going on in a way that feels still, like, elegant and elevated? 116 00:07:25.257 --> 00:07:29.499 So I know that women love to have their boobs out. 117 00:07:30.020 --> 00:07:31.060 I am not that person. 118 00:07:31.080 --> 00:07:32.581 You have great boobs. 119 00:07:32.721 --> 00:07:33.922 I mean, you could be that person. 120 00:07:33.942 --> 00:07:34.082 No. 121 00:07:34.102 --> 00:07:34.502 Exactly. 122 00:07:34.882 --> 00:07:37.104 My daughter literally told me to get me out of the shower. 123 00:07:37.124 --> 00:07:41.867 She's like, Mom, your boobs have

the consistency of queso that's been left out too long. 124 00:07:41.927 --> 00:07:44.569 And I was like, you're totally right. 125 00:07:44.989 --> 00:07:45.870 Outrageous. 126 00:07:46.130 --> 00:07:46.591 Bowie. 127 00:07:48.012 --> 00:07:49.152 But she was right. 128 00:07:49.272 --> 00:07:50.613 I was like, how can I be upset? 129 00:07:50.713 --> 00:07:53.816 They do have that consistency after breastfeeding for like 12 years. 130 00:07:53.836 --> 00:07:57.858 Well, you are a, you know, committed breastfeeder. 131 00:07:58.019 --> 00:07:58.779 Oh, my God. 132 00:07:58.919 --> 00:07:59.900 But, you know. 133 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:01.161 There's upgrades for that. 134 00:08:01.221 --> 00:08:02.363 There's upgrades. 135 00:08:02.523 --> 00:08:03.204 I'm debating it. 136 00:08:03.284 --> 00:08:09.170 But I think that for me, tastefully, like the boobs aren't really ever on or out to perform. 137 00:08:09.291 --> 00:08:12.855 And I'm like, OK, I'm a leg girl, you know, shoulders. 138 00:08:13.575 --> 00:08:17.240 And I think that as we age, like I'm just trying to find the best parts of me. 139 00:08:17.320 --> 00:08:18.681 And like, that's what gets shown. 140 00:08:18.701 --> 00:08:18.801 Yeah. 141 00:08:19.422 --> 00:08:20.402 Yeah, pick the feature. 142 00:08:20.422 --> 00:08:21.843 Pick the feature, yeah. 143 00:08:22.143 --> 00:08:27.144 And I think at 40, I feel a lot more comfortable and confident to your point of just in anything. 144 00:08:27.184 --> 00:08:30.304 Like, I know who the experts are in these features of my life. 145 00:08:30.504 --> 00:08:37.706 And like in aesthetics, in what I want to display, I feel confidently the expert of my own identity. 146 00:08:38.306 --> 00:08:41.547 Since you brought up Bowie, let's talk about kids and business for a second. 147 00:08:41.587 --> 00:08:45.447 So I think women are really fast to talk about trade-offs. 148 00:08:45.547 --> 00:08:47.988 And I think there is a lot of conversation about... 149 00:08:48.608 --> 00:09:07.620 the difficulty and the struggle of being a mother and trying to build something in the world and doing all the, you know, just juggling the 45 plates we're always juggling because that is universal and it is so hard and you, and you should feel super proud of what you've been able to do because, you know, give a busy person something to do. 150 00:09:07.640 --> 00:09:08.361 It'll be done like this. 151 00:09:08.381 --> 00:09:09.682 Like we're so busy. 152 00:09:10.202 --> 00:09:13.704 But I don't think nearly enough airtime is given to like the pleasure and joy of motherhood. 153 00:09:13.764 --> 00:09:16.565 And I think that it's held more privately. 154 00:09:16.885 --> 00:09:19.286 Can you tell us like the highest joy of motherhood? 155 00:09:20.587 --> 00:09:28.971 I think when they're playing with each other and like the giggles or like yesterday I caught Bowie and Leo singing an Ariana Grande song to each other. 156 00:09:29.891 --> 00:09:32.834 I don't know, or when Bowie's quite the entrepreneur. 157 00:09:32.854 --> 00:09:36.618 So she came up with a business idea and she pitched me like an investor. 158 00:09:36.638 --> 00:09:38.080 How old is she? 159 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:38.801 She's 11. 160 00:09:38.821 --> 00:09:39.321 Wow. 161 00:09:39.341 --> 00:09:42.705 And so like that's a moment that like you're so proud, you know? 162 00:09:42.725 --> 00:09:43.265 Yeah. 163 00:09:43.426 --> 00:09:43.766 I don't know. 164 00:09:43.786 --> 00:09:46.048 I think it's just it's fun watching them change. 165 00:09:46.108 --> 00:09:48.671 I have a 14-year-old and it's like he's turning into a man. 166 00:09:48.711 --> 00:09:49.772 That's its whole own thing. 167 00:09:50.473 --> 00:09:50.833 I don't know. 168 00:09:50.853 --> 00:09:52.134 There are all these fun moments. 169 00:09:52.194 --> 00:10:06.985 But I will say, like, the growth phase of the business, like, I thought I was present, but it wasn't until I had my fourth and the business was in a different time in its life where I had a lot more attention freed up for my children that I was like, oh, I wasn't present. 170 00:10:07.065 --> 00:10:08.286 Like, my body was there. 171 00:10:08.806 --> 00:10:13.570 But bath time wasn't just me sitting there or laying next to them to get them to fall asleep was not—I was— 172 00:10:14.330 --> 00:10:17.353 Like this, you know, and I can't take it back. 173 00:10:17.593 --> 00:10:19.976 It's hard to tell another woman, just don't do that. 174 00:10:20.036 --> 00:10:24.220 Because like, that's like telling a girl to break up with the bad guy that she doesn't want to stop seeing. 175 00:10:24.881 --> 00:10:30.907 But thank God I had my fourth because I was like, oh, now I understand what truly being present is. 176 00:10:31.027 --> 00:10:35.973 You're not hoping they fall asleep faster or hurrying them to get done and ready for bed. 177 00:10:36.453 --> 00:10:37.274 I think that's so true. 178 00:10:37.294 --> 00:10:45.607 I mean, that's countless experiences where you're physically present, but you're mentally rewriting the email, mentally replying to the person who's bothering you. 179 00:10:46.950 --> 00:10:53.232 you know, humans generally, but kids especially, their EQ is so high, so much higher even than IQ or what they're really aware of. 180 00:10:53.272 --> 00:10:54.812 And they feel that pull away. 181 00:10:54.852 --> 00:10:56.312 They feel that distraction. 182 00:10:56.372 --> 00:10:58.893 They feel that rushed in that hurry because you're human. 183 00:10:58.973 --> 00:11:01.094 And of course, like that registers. 184 00:11:01.514 --> 00:11:04.154 What would you say is the tradeoff you had to make? 185 00:11:04.174 --> 00:11:09.476 Like, where were you succeeding the most at work, but being the worst at home and vice versa? 186 00:11:09.636 --> 00:11:13.877 Was there a time when you were being incredible at home, but you feel like your business suffered as a result? 187 00:11:14.416 -->

00:11:18.699 Well, when you look back pre-COVID, like getting home at 645 was normal. 188 00:11:19.219 --> 00:11:22.982 Now I'm like, oh, my God, the abhorrence of that. 189 00:11:23.002 --> 00:11:23.983 This is late. 190 00:11:24.183 --> 00:11:27.145 This is very, this is like bedtime for me. 191 00:11:27.485 --> 00:11:29.807 How did we get home like that every night? 192 00:11:29.907 --> 00:11:30.367 Every night. 193 00:11:30.447 --> 00:11:30.987 And that was normal. 194 00:11:31.007 --> 00:11:31.628 And then go out to dinner. 195 00:11:31.828 --> 00:11:34.870 Put the kids to bed and then be like, I have a work dinner I have to get to at 830 at night. 196 00:11:35.030 --> 00:11:35.491 I know. 197 00:11:35.511 --> 00:11:36.091 Right. 198 00:11:36.371 --> 00:11:40.133 I remember we would push their bedtimes to 930 so I could see them when I got home. 199 00:11:40.414 --> 00:11:42.235 So I would say I was the worst. 200 00:11:42.575 --> 00:11:46.757 A notable example is like there was a fashion week that I was getting ready for. 201 00:11:46.938 --> 00:11:47.998 It was really stressful. 202 00:11:48.439 --> 00:11:53.942 A lot of pressure was put on me to achieve certain things and get certain celebrities to wear stuff. 203 00:11:54.602 --> 00:11:57.284 And I had tried to be on vacation probably the wrong week to pick. 204 00:11:57.964 --> 00:11:58.805 And my daughter... 205 00:11:59.986 --> 00:12:02.209 It was just like, mommy, like you're not here right now. 206 00:12:02.429 --> 00:12:05.933 You know, you're not being a good mom because you're just not mentally here. 207 00:12:05.973 --> 00:12:07.075 And that felt horrible. 208 00:12:07.816 --> 00:12:12.582 Or even when a couple of Mother's Days ago, Nico did this cute little presentation. 209 00:12:12.622 --> 00:12:14.824 It's like my mom's favorite thing is to work. 210 00:12:15.205 --> 00:12:15.305 Yeah. 211 00:12:15.773 --> 00:12:17.033 And it slaughtered me. 212 00:12:17.053 --> 00:12:23.056 Those questionnaires are the most singularly evil things that has ever been put in the because they do. 213 00:12:23.236 --> 00:12:30.698 I mean, I do think the acknowledgement that you're only human and you have 24 hours in the day and no one gets more done than a busy mom. 214 00:12:30.838 --> 00:12:43.002 But I think that because we know that to be true, because that standard has been said, it's also a really unfair expectation that you should be able to be perfect and happy and on and engaged all the time in all the roles. 215 00:12:43.543 --> 00:12:44.023 And that's. 216 00:12:44.723 --> 00:12:47.466 I, you know, I talk about this concept of joy stealing. 217 00:12:47.707 --> 00:12:54.695 And I felt that when I was hosting The Chew and I just had my first, this was 2014, I went back to work after eight weeks. 218 00:12:54.795 --> 00:13:04.467 And I remember that feeling of like I was pumping in my dressing room, crying, like wasting water coming out of my eyes that needed to be coming into the pump.

219 00:13:04.987 --> 00:13:06.790 And I remember feeling like I'm miserable. 220 00:13:06.810 --> 00:13:14.521 I'm really unhappy here at a job that I love trying to perform because I worry that I'm missing key moments with Philomena at home. 221 00:13:14.922 --> 00:13:18.687 And then when I would get home, finally, you know, we were done taping at two or three in the afternoon. 222 00:13:18.707 --> 00:13:19.809 I would go home. 223 00:13:19.889 --> 00:13:27.074 would be like stressed and anxious because I wasn't available for the field shoots and I couldn't be a part of the aftermath, like, you know, rundowns and postmortems. 224 00:13:27.395 --> 00:13:33.599 And I would just I felt like I was constantly being ripped and stretched and just, you know, you're already in a very delicate hormonal place. 225 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:44.868 But what I would say again to people who are on the fence of just like either you have children and you're trying to get your mental headspace better or you're on the fence about whether you can have children and have the career and the life that you want. 226 00:13:45.248 --> 00:13:46.349 I would say that like 227 00:13:47.029 --> 00:13:48.469 everybody figures it out. 228 00:13:49.090 --> 00:13:55.872 In some way, you find the place where, and I told myself, I was like, you have to get comfortable with the fact that the choice that you made is the choice that you made. 229 00:13:56.252 --> 00:13:58.072 So something about it is making you happy. 230 00:13:58.092 --> 00:14:04.314 If I've chosen to be in this job, in this working position, showing up today, I have to let this be what fuels my joy. 231 00:14:04.515 --> 00:14:09.116 I feel like we have to get more comfortable feeling okay in our decision-making. 232 00:14:09.556 --> 00:14:15.037 feeling like we're making good choices for ourselves and then allowing the joy to flow through that agency. 233 00:14:15.658 --> 00:14:27.660 And I really felt the shift once I acknowledged that, that like I could go home and feel really happy and thrilled to be there and not worry about the eight hours that I'd been at studio, you know, a couple of days a week. 234 00:14:27.820 --> 00:14:31.641 I feel like I've only just been able to start doing that. 235 00:14:31.781 --> 00:14:34.022 So like for women that are like, will it ever happen? 236 00:14:34.042 --> 00:14:34.142 Yeah. 237 00:14:34.762 --> 00:14:37.364 Like you might need a little you have to put your blinders on. 238 00:14:37.704 --> 00:14:40.487 It's not what all the other women on Instagram are doing or posting. 239 00:14:40.507 --> 00:14:47.512 And it's like I always tell women experiment with your boundaries, you know, and figure out what works for you. 240 00:14:47.612 --> 00:14:53.137 Like for me, yes, I brought the kids internationally when I traveled, not all of them, but one one at a time. 241 00:14:53.737 --> 00:14:54.598 The nanny came. 242 00:14:55.018 --> 00:14:57.921 But that was what I needed to continue

like my breastfeeding journey. 243 00:14:58.001 --> 00:14:58.181 Right. 244 00:14:58.201 --> 00:14:59.162 Was for them to be with me. 245 00:14:59.242 --> 00:15:00.002 So did I sleep? 246 00:15:00.523 --> 00:15:00.763 No. 247 00:15:00.923 --> 00:15:02.304 Was I with the one on the plane with them? 248 00:15:02.464 --> 00:15:02.725 Yes. 249 00:15:03.345 --> 00:15:05.946 You know, but I was like, that's the trade-off I'm going to make to do this. 250 00:15:06.006 --> 00:15:07.726 And I think there's always going to be trade-offs. 251 00:15:08.086 --> 00:15:09.267 Do I go on a lot of date nights? 252 00:15:09.587 --> 00:15:10.127 No, I do not. 253 00:15:10.507 --> 00:15:11.808 Do I go on those fun girls trips? 254 00:15:12.048 --> 00:15:12.728 No, I don't. 255 00:15:13.248 --> 00:15:18.450 And I want to, but like, that's what I've established is like, okay, this is how this can be a little bit. 256 00:15:18.470 --> 00:15:18.570 Yeah. 257 00:15:18.710 --> 00:15:28.733 And then now I'm truly starting to be like, if I'm two weeks alone while Gavin's on the road, I'm like really drown in every aspect of like everything with the kids. 258 00:15:29.413 --> 00:15:32.774 And just remember that, what that feels like when you leave for three days. 259 00:15:32.794 --> 00:15:33.134 Yeah. 260 00:15:34.313 --> 00:15:37.654 And then when you're gone, you'll be like, ah, I don't feel bad at all. 261 00:15:37.934 --> 00:15:38.395 Totally. 262 00:15:38.675 --> 00:15:46.358 Well, OK, let's talk about Gavin for a second, because, you know, I do think you guys have such a great balancing act that you do. 263 00:15:46.618 --> 00:15:50.179 And and I mean, he's a massively capable father. 264 00:15:50.239 --> 00:15:50.839 Like I do. 265 00:15:50.980 --> 00:15:55.801 He really I think this is something that's really cool to see also is he's not a babysitter. 266 00:15:55.841 --> 00:15:56.382 He's a dad. 267 00:15:56.702 --> 00:15:57.082 Totally. 268 00:15:57.422 --> 00:16:00.243 And it can be very tempting to be like, I'll just do it all. 269 00:16:00.303 --> 00:16:01.023 I'll just fix everything. 270 00:16:01.043 --> 00:16:02.523 I'll fix every meal before I leave. 271 00:16:02.543 --> 00:16:04.304 I'll like make all the plans before I leave. 272 00:16:04.764 --> 00:16:07.465 And then ultimately you still have the responsibility. 273 00:16:07.485 --> 00:16:10.105 You're not there, but you're, oh, it's almost worse because you're not there. 274 00:16:10.125 --> 00:16:14.266 You can't fix everything, but you're like mentally trying to make sure this is the schedule being set. 275 00:16:14.806 --> 00:16:20.748 I do think giving husbands or partners an opportunity to feel fully alone. 276 00:16:21.628 --> 00:16:23.990 in their journey. 277 00:16:24.391 --> 00:16:27.133 I mean, look, it's how you teach children responsibility. 278 00:16:27.193 --> 00:16:27.433 Yeah. 279 00:16:27.493 --> 00:16:28.895 It's how you teach anyone responsibility. 280 00:16:28.915 --> 00:16:31.978 You have to give them enough rope to hang themselves with. 281 00:16:32.018 --> 00:16:36.982 But like, you know, an opportunity to test their mettle, an opportunity to feel really deeply capable. 282 00:16:37.402 --> 00:16:43.988 If what we want is more confident, capable, happier people, we can't mother them all the time. 283 00:16:44.009 --> 00:16:44.069 No. 284 00:16:44.149 --> 00:16:44.329 Yeah. 285 00:16:44.609 --> 00:16:46.050 I never had to teach him, though. 286 00:16:46.090 --> 00:16:46.750 I will say that. 287 00:16:46.830 --> 00:16:48.431 And there are men that need to be taught. 288 00:16:48.831 --> 00:16:56.096 Like I had a friend, she was coming up here to do for one day and the kid vomited on the way to the airport and the dad called and was like, what do I do? 289 00:16:56.516 --> 00:17:02.820 And I was like, OK, sounds like you need to have a little bit of a reset because he should know what to do if the kid vomits. 290 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:04.901 You know, like there are some men that have to be taught. 291 00:17:04.921 --> 00:17:06.101 Yeah, yeah, totally. 292 00:17:06.121 --> 00:17:08.603 And then you teach them and then you leave them to hang themselves. 293 00:17:11.031 --> 00:17:16.677 You know, I am curious what Gavin would say is the cost of being married to Rebecca. 294 00:17:16.717 --> 00:17:17.638 Oh, God. 295 00:17:17.658 --> 00:17:18.139 Oh, God. 296 00:17:18.179 --> 00:17:20.061 What would he say? 297 00:17:20.101 --> 00:17:20.542 Tell us. 298 00:17:20.742 --> 00:17:21.503 Tell us, Gavin. 299 00:17:22.304 --> 00:17:26.509 Gavin, he deeply appreciates that I he says I'm binary. 300 00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:27.931 It's either a one or a zero. 301 00:17:28.331 --> 00:17:31.532 One or zero, like happy, sad, mad, easy. 302 00:17:31.632 --> 00:17:33.532 Like good restaurant, bad restaurant. 303 00:17:33.632 --> 00:17:35.093 There's a hair in my soup, zero. 304 00:17:35.213 --> 00:17:37.993 There's like, like she did me dirty, zero. 305 00:17:38.213 --> 00:17:39.674 Oh, I can't wait to talk about grudges. 306 00:17:39.754 --> 00:17:41.534 This is the end of being juicy. 307 00:17:41.994 --> 00:17:42.394 Okay, go on. 308 00:17:42.694 --> 00:17:43.694 What else would he say? 309 00:17:43.714 --> 00:17:49.236 I think he wishes I would be a little bit more apologetic when I'm wrong. 310 00:17:50.476 --> 00:17:51.336 I do apologize now. 311 00:17:51.356 --> 00:17:52.176 I'm getting better at it. 312 00:17:52.196 --> 00:17:54.497 And he's, he's usually very grateful when that happens. 313 00:17:56.674 --> 00:17:58.611 What do you think he's taught you the most of? 314 00:18:00.195 --> 00:18:02.356 He says sorry all the time when he's wrong. 315 00:18:02.376 --> 00:18:05.237 And he just says it and there's no like, I'm sorry. 316 00:18:05.437 --> 00:18:05.677 Yeah. 317 00:18:05.857 --> 00:18:06.197 You know? 318 00:18:06.517 --> 00:18:08.438 And I think it's really nice and refreshing. 319 00:18:08.498 --> 00:18:09.999 And I'm

really trying to mirror that. 320 00:18:10.719 --> 00:18:17.642 And he's also taught me that, I don't know, like he just takes joy in things that I think is drudgery sometimes. 321 00:18:17.722 --> 00:18:20.083 And I think I'm trying to also find that. 322 00:18:20.163 --> 00:18:24.344 What do you think he feels like, well, let's just talk about it, for kids in? 323 00:18:24.444 --> 00:18:25.665 Like, how do you... 324 00:18:26.365 --> 00:18:28.468 keep him feeling like it's romantic. 325 00:18:28.648 --> 00:18:29.269 Someone said this. 326 00:18:29.289 --> 00:18:30.110 I thought it was so cool. 327 00:18:30.130 --> 00:18:32.053 Like, we're not just married. 328 00:18:32.093 --> 00:18:33.354 We're dating all the time. 329 00:18:33.514 --> 00:18:36.038 And it's feeling like there's you're keeping that spark alive. 330 00:18:36.058 --> 00:18:37.940 You're keeping that intrigue. 331 00:18:38.040 --> 00:18:42.807 And what do you think about the idea of like holding any part of yourself back for like continued discovery? 332 00:18:43.247 --> 00:18:44.348 That ship has sailed. 333 00:18:44.468 --> 00:18:45.388 That ship has sailed. 334 00:18:45.829 --> 00:18:47.630 There is nothing held back, okay? 335 00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:51.252 I think he wishes there was probably more. 336 00:18:51.432 --> 00:18:59.577 Like, we went through a time period after I had Leo, where with my hormones and my age, like, I just didn't have it, you know? 337 00:18:59.617 --> 00:19:01.078 And I didn't have anything left to give. 338 00:19:01.138 --> 00:19:02.799 And I knew it was me, not him. 339 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:07.582 And I just said, like, listen, I'm going to—I am going to figure this out. 340 00:19:07.662 --> 00:19:08.783 And it wasn't a quick fix. 341 00:19:08.923 --> 00:19:09.984 It was, like, months of— 342 00:19:10.544 --> 00:19:15.390 pelvic floor therapy and hormones and, you know, and then I was like, oh, good. 343 00:19:15.410 --> 00:19:18.253 I like you again, you know, and then I remember this happening. 344 00:19:18.273 --> 00:19:21.456 I remember us going to dinner and this and like being a part of this. 345 00:19:21.516 --> 00:19:21.857 Yes. 346 00:19:22.097 --> 00:19:23.118 And I felt terrible. 347 00:19:23.178 --> 00:19:26.782 But he was just like, I appreciate that you're working so hard at it. 348 00:19:26.862 --> 00:19:28.664 And thank you for being honest and upfront. 349 00:19:29.225 --> 00:19:30.206 About what you're going through. 350 00:19:30.286 --> 00:19:31.887 And I'm sure he was annoyed, right? 351 00:19:31.967 --> 00:19:32.807 What man wouldn't be. 352 00:19:33.047 --> 00:19:36.629 I could definitely do a better job of keeping the romance, but I'm just, I don't know. 353 00:19:37.009 --> 00:19:39.251 It's not, it's not my strong suit. 354 00:19:39.351 --> 00:19:40.071 Are you a romantic? 355 00:19:40.111 --> 00:19:41.832 Like, do you like, what's your love language? 356 00:19:41.852 --> 00:19:43.633 Do you like when he's romantic with you? 357 00:19:43.713 --> 00:19:44.173 Is that a... 358 00:19:44.614 --> 00:19:51.358 I like, yeah, I like surprises and I like gifts or like dinners or even when he's like, hey, how do you want your Saturday to go? 359 00:19:51.418 --> 00:19:52.718 Like, even that question's nice. 360 00:19:52.738 --> 00:19:56.681 That's another thing I need to get better at too, of being like, how do you want your Saturday to go? 361 00:19:56.701 --> 00:19:57.461 Yeah. 362 00:19:57.541 --> 00:19:59.521 There's a lot of questions, a lot of answers there. 363 00:20:00.582 --> 00:20:12.505 But even that willingness to see that like it was something that you were dealing with personally, individually, hormonally, chemically, like, you know, physically and to do the hard work to fix it. 364 00:20:12.865 --> 00:20:23.687 And I mean, you've you've pushed yourself really hard listening to some of the travel trajectory and the meetings you'd be in with like a literal breastfeed nursing infant with you in the room or in the next room. 365 00:20:24.188 --> 00:20:25.708 You have really weathered. 366 00:20:26.248 --> 00:20:33.574 structurally and emotionally challenging dynamics and found and charted a path that worked for you, which I do think is fearless. 367 00:20:33.614 --> 00:20:45.203 And I do think is like, you know, willing to be very brave about prioritizing what are what are non-negotiables for you and what defines the kind of mother and the kind of businesswoman and the kind of person you want to be. 368 00:20:46.063 --> 00:20:49.226 Was it always easy for you to find that true north? 369 00:20:49.286 --> 00:20:54.450 Was that something that you felt like was just part of your chemistry or where do you think it came from? 370 00:20:55.267 --> 00:21:01.355 I have no idea, but I knew that after I watched The Business of Being Born that I was like, oh boy. 371 00:21:01.375 --> 00:21:02.236 Thank you, Rikki Lake. 372 00:21:04.045 --> 00:21:06.907 I began to get a sense of the kind of mother I wanted to be. 373 00:21:06.947 --> 00:21:12.330 And then I read Ina Gaskin's books on giving birth and breastfeeding. 374 00:21:12.370 --> 00:21:17.112 And then I just decided like, okay, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to commit and it's going to suck. 375 00:21:17.313 --> 00:21:21.375 Because it's a lot of, as you know, it's a lot of extra work and you're in the middle of a board meeting. 376 00:21:21.395 --> 00:21:22.816 You're like, guys, I got to pump. 377 00:21:22.936 --> 00:21:24.957 Like we can take a break or we can keep going. 378 00:21:24.997 --> 00:21:30.720 And I think a lot of women also are scared in those scenarios to like say what they have to do. 379 00:21:30.800 --> 00:21:33.422 And I was like, this will only work if I'm not scared. 380 00:21:33.442 --> 00:21:33.742 Yeah. 381 00:21:33.982 --> 00:21:41.349 So I get my little cloth and I keep on going, you know, and I think that was how I could deal with it so that I wasn't, I'll be back in 30 minutes. 382

00:21:41.950 --> 00:21:47.355 And I urged women in my office to the point of them probably being like, stop it already, you crazy lady. 383 00:21:47.395 --> 00:21:49.937 I'm like, if you want to breastfeed on a conference call, great. 384 00:21:50.298 --> 00:21:53.681 If you want to pump, you know, don't go hide in the room. 385 00:21:54.181 --> 00:21:55.102 Do it out in the open. 386 00:21:55.222 --> 00:21:55.483 Yeah. 387 00:21:56.364 --> 00:21:57.165 But I don't know. 388 00:21:57.205 --> 00:22:03.893 I just was like, I couldn't I couldn't have the career I had if it was without the family. 389 00:22:04.394 --> 00:22:08.419 You know, the satisfaction, I think, wouldn't have been there, even though it was tense. 390 00:22:09.737 --> 00:22:17.220 Well, I think, I mean, obviously your name was on the door and, you know, you set that tone, but you set that tone for the entire working group. 391 00:22:17.341 --> 00:22:33.768 And I think in some ways being flexible to that and realizing that there were humans working in this office, not just cogs in a machine, putting things together and selling them probably made people more efficient and more creative and more willing to show you their full selves. 392 00:22:34.288 --> 00:22:37.810 That very much infused and is why Rebecca Minkoff has had success. 393 00:22:38.090 --> 00:22:40.612 the longevity and the duration, durability that it's had. 394 00:22:40.632 --> 00:22:41.633 You guys have weathered COVID. 395 00:22:41.653 --> 00:22:59.789 I mean, we're going to talk some of the business metrics in a second because I love picking your business brain because I feel like you bring this groundedness, this settledness to every decision-making process that you have and can reflect in a very unselfconscious way on the places where you f***ed up and the places where you really soared. 396 00:23:00.029 --> 00:23:04.112 Can you talk a little bit about that confidence and being that person? 397 00:23:04.152 --> 00:23:04.353 Yeah. 398 00:23:04.933 --> 00:23:08.496 I think it comes down to sort of what Gavin refers to as my binary. 399 00:23:08.516 --> 00:23:15.540 Like, I think once I try and make a decision, I try and, like, fulfill it to the point of, like, I think I called it, like, delusional optimism. 400 00:23:15.741 --> 00:23:19.023 You know, it's like you have to be delusional to do this. 401 00:23:19.863 --> 00:23:21.324 And you have to be optimistic about it. 402 00:23:21.344 --> 00:23:27.369 Like, when I tell you, like, there have been some bleak moments in the last couple years with my business that, 403 00:23:28.289 --> 00:23:33.152 I remember last year on my birthday, the CEO was like, are you sure you want me to deliver this news to you like on your birthday? 404 00:23:33.232 --> 00:23:34.272 I was like, give it to me. 405 00:23:35.173 --> 00:23:40.776 And I felt like hearing what he had to tell me about some stuff that went wrong was going to crush my day and ruin it. 406 00:23:40.876 --> 00:23:43.477 And then I literally was like, it's going to be great. 407 00:23:44.018 --> 00:23:46.279 And I don't know where that comes from, but thank God. 408 00:23:46.579 --> 00:23:46.979 Because – 409 00:23:48.760 --> 00:23:51.182 I mean, it carries me through those moments. 410 00:23:51.662 --> 00:23:52.863 And it hasn't always been like that. 411 00:23:52.883 --> 00:23:57.145 There's definitely been days where I've been like down forever, you know, or feeling like it's forever. 412 00:23:57.165 --> 00:24:04.110 I just try and make a decision, stick with it and be delusionally optimistic about the outcome. 413 00:24:04.250 --> 00:24:04.490 Yeah. 414 00:24:05.287 --> 00:24:10.094 And lately I've also been trying to, there's like a term like to waste something. 415 00:24:10.234 --> 00:24:11.416 Like you just don't need it in the end. 416 00:24:11.436 --> 00:24:12.036 Just waste it. 417 00:24:12.737 --> 00:24:17.684 And I've also been trying to be a little bit more like, I don't need to do this and this and this and this. 418 00:24:17.744 --> 00:24:18.806 Like, fuck it. 419 00:24:18.866 --> 00:24:21.389 If those people aren't interested in my proposal, fuck it. 420 00:24:21.882 --> 00:24:23.183 They're stupid, you know? 421 00:24:24.163 --> 00:24:27.485 And when I get turned down, I'm just like, eh, whatever, they lost. 422 00:24:28.306 --> 00:24:29.926 And I'm trying to get better at that too. 423 00:24:30.547 --> 00:24:30.947 I like that. 424 00:24:31.007 --> 00:24:34.089 I mean, that whole, you know, what's meant for you can't be denied from you. 425 00:24:34.129 --> 00:24:37.511 That whole like, you know, cosmic energy thing, I think is true actually. 426 00:24:37.551 --> 00:24:46.576 And I mostly, because I think your core is pulling you towards the things that you deeply want, even before you're ready to acknowledge them, even before maybe you could put voice to them. 427 00:24:47.016 --> 00:24:47.997 Let's talk about... 428 00:24:49.017 --> 00:24:59.140 selling your brand and bringing on partners, which you did in 2023, and what that process was like, and what did you learn that you would do differently? 429 00:24:59.180 --> 00:25:00.141 Were you to do it again? 430 00:25:00.161 --> 00:25:01.361 Oh, gosh. 431 00:25:01.521 --> 00:25:01.861 Okay. 432 00:25:01.901 --> 00:25:07.903 So just to give people perspective, we sold a small chunk of the business in 2011 and 2012. 433 00:25:08.583 --> 00:25:11.064 So we had business partners from that point on. 434 00:25:11.144 --> 00:25:13.545 So it was never just then my brother and mine. 435 00:25:14.465 --> 00:25:18.149 2020 was a decimating year for the brand. 436 00:25:18.169 --> 00:25:19.851 We were at like 115 million. 437 00:25:19.871 --> 00:25:20.992 No, we were at 70 million. 438 00:25:21.693 --> 00:25:24.556 And the business went down to 30. 439 00:25:25.097 --> 00:25:28.681 And all that existed was our e-com business during COVID. 440 00:25:28.741 --> 00:25:31.664 So whatever we did on

e-com, that was all we could do to pay the bills. 441 00:25:31.684 --> 00:25:31.784 Yeah. 442 00:25:32.525 --> 00:25:38.867 So we actually, it forced us as a company to figure out and prioritize our customer, what was selling most. 443 00:25:39.087 --> 00:25:44.068 The conversation started every morning with, what do we do on our site today instead of what did Nordstrom do? 444 00:25:44.088 --> 00:25:44.888 What did Bloomingdale's do? 445 00:25:44.928 --> 00:25:45.808 How is Saks doing? 446 00:25:45.868 --> 00:25:46.908 How is Neiman Marcus doing? 447 00:25:46.928 --> 00:25:49.149 Like it just focused us on our own backyard. 448 00:25:49.789 --> 00:25:50.669 So that was positive. 449 00:25:51.109 --> 00:25:54.050 We were going to end 2021 with a profit. 450 00:25:54.130 --> 00:25:56.071 We were like, yes, we're pulling through. 451 00:25:57.091 --> 00:26:00.972 Then the quarantines hit our Indonesian supply chain. 452 00:26:01.952 --> 00:26:02.672 We couldn't get goods. 453 00:26:03.273 --> 00:26:07.715 So of 300,000 units at the end of 2021, we got 3,000 units. 454 00:26:08.015 --> 00:26:09.076 So cash flow stopped. 455 00:26:09.876 --> 00:26:14.078 Our bank was like, hmm, holy, I'm not comfortable with this situation. 456 00:26:14.098 --> 00:26:14.758 Gosh. 457 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:19.281 Now that you're really fucked, we're going to tell you we want our loan paid back. 458 00:26:19.921 --> 00:26:21.223 in a very short amount of time. 459 00:26:21.503 --> 00:26:24.327 And this was also COVID, so people were hesitant to give loans. 460 00:26:24.968 --> 00:26:30.856 And we had been talking to a company for quite some time, about a year, about a transaction. 461 00:26:31.497 --> 00:26:36.744 And we called and we said, this is a little bit more time compressed than we would like, but... 462 00:26:37.565 --> 00:26:39.127 If we want to do this, we got to move now. 463 00:26:39.387 --> 00:26:41.369 And he was a strategic partner in that. 464 00:26:41.389 --> 00:26:42.310 He had supply chain. 465 00:26:42.850 --> 00:26:44.552 He had people in Hong Kong. 466 00:26:44.592 --> 00:26:45.653 He had sourcing teams. 467 00:26:45.773 --> 00:26:49.496 He could get us our goods and he could find us more factories to help us. 468 00:26:50.117 --> 00:26:53.220 So for us, it was, I guess, happy and sad. 469 00:26:53.260 --> 00:26:54.681 It wasn't on the timeline we wanted. 470 00:26:54.721 --> 00:26:56.203 It wasn't the valuation we wanted. 471 00:26:56.843 --> 00:26:57.904 But it saved the business. 472 00:26:58.905 --> 00:26:59.966 And so it was... 473 00:27:01.165 --> 00:27:04.026 very weird the day when we announced it to the team. 474 00:27:04.326 --> 00:27:05.606 We kept almost everybody. 475 00:27:05.686 --> 00:27:07.126 But then the next day my brother left. 476 00:27:07.406 --> 00:27:09.167 You know, he was like, okay, bye, everybody. 477 00:27:09.187 --> 00:27:09.807 I'm out. 478 00:27:10.407 --> 00:27:11.227 And that was weird. 479 00:27:11.267 --> 00:27:18.389 The person that I sat with every day that I fought and made up with and worked with for 17 years was like gone. 480 00:27:18.409 --> 00:27:20.309 And now I have a boss. 481 00:27:21.330 --> 00:27:22.550 And now I have like... 482 00:27:23.523 --> 00:27:24.424 This new company. 483 00:27:24.624 --> 00:27:29.647 And I would say that because we stayed in our office for another year, it felt somewhat normal. 484 00:27:30.227 --> 00:27:34.870 But the day we moved into their offices, I had a panic attack and I like left. 485 00:27:34.951 --> 00:27:41.195 I walked from 39th all the way to Dumbo to my apartment because I was just like, okay, I can do this. 486 00:27:41.355 --> 00:27:43.776 Because then it really felt like it's not mine anymore. 487 00:27:43.936 --> 00:27:44.357 It's theirs. 488 00:27:45.322 --> 00:27:49.825 And then I got over it and I was like, this is actually really great. 489 00:27:50.345 --> 00:27:55.748 Because a lot of the things that, again, kept me from being a present mother were no longer my problems. 490 00:27:56.649 --> 00:28:05.314 So if you're having inventory, supply chain, like logistical issues, not that I didn't care, but it wasn't for me to worry about or figure out. 491 00:28:06.255 --> 00:28:14.725 And I think it freed up so much Mindshare to be a mom, but also to be creative again, because that stuff sucks the life out of you. 492 00:28:14.986 --> 00:28:20.853 So I could like pour myself into the design and the PR and like, you know, how I wanted to make the brand show up. 493 00:28:21.373 --> 00:28:30.657 I'd like to have a conversation about visibility, about as a founder, as a entrepreneur, as a influencer, as someone who, you know, it is your name on this brand. 494 00:28:30.677 --> 00:28:34.078 It is your purportedly your aesthetic that is being sold. 495 00:28:34.498 --> 00:28:35.419 How do you stay fresh? 496 00:28:35.439 --> 00:28:36.319 How do you stay current? 497 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:41.041 And like, do you think the visibility is the most important piece of the puzzle? 498 00:28:41.527 --> 00:28:48.231 I think it is a key piece of the puzzle if people are like, oh God, you know, you going on Housewives, that must have really hurt business. 499 00:28:48.271 --> 00:28:49.932 I'm like, brand awareness is up 40%. 500 00:28:49.972 --> 00:28:50.753 Massively. 501 00:28:51.453 --> 00:28:53.435 I told you at the time, I was like, first of all, you never looked better. 502 00:28:53.615 --> 00:28:54.835 You looked so hot. 503 00:28:55.056 --> 00:29:00.199 And you, like you, it was also, sometimes you just need an excuse to like do all that stuff. 504 00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:00.519 100%. 505 00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:04.582 You know, if anything, like I got into the best shape of my life because I was like, I'm going to be on TV. 506 00:29:04.602 --> 00:29:05.362 I better look good. 507 00:29:05.402 --> 00:29:06.503 Yeah, you got in the best shape of your life. 508 00:29:06.883 --> 00:29:08.004 Hair was

fabulous. 509 00:29:08.044 --> 00:29:09.105 You taught me about extensions. 510 00:29:09.145 --> 00:29:10.325 And I never knew. 511 00:29:10.445 --> 00:29:11.166 My little clip-ins. 512 00:29:11.186 --> 00:29:11.386 Sure. 513 00:29:12.748 --> 00:29:21.158 And I think it forced you to like have a renovated sense of I'm going to promote this this brand that I've been talking about for 17 years now. 514 00:29:21.178 --> 00:29:28.567 I'm going to promote it in a new way and more about me than about the clothing or the bags or the things that I've been known for. 515 00:29:29.208 --> 00:29:33.889 I think that good or bad, people need a reason to pay attention to you. 516 00:29:34.069 --> 00:29:42.211 And if you don't have anything new to talk about or new to say or a new way to show up, and then you have this platform where it's like, I can change my look. 517 00:29:42.391 --> 00:29:43.111 I can show up. 518 00:29:43.211 --> 00:29:44.151 I can be seen. 519 00:29:44.671 --> 00:29:46.712 People were suddenly interested again, you know? 520 00:29:46.772 --> 00:29:49.412 And so I was like, let me take this and squeeze it for all that's worth. 521 00:29:49.472 --> 00:29:51.132 Yes, it came with a lot of pain. 522 00:29:52.373 --> 00:29:53.113 But it was short-lived. 523 00:29:53.153 --> 00:29:53.893 Everyone forgot. 524 00:29:53.973 --> 00:29:55.713 All the goldfish, they reset. 525 00:29:57.374 --> 00:29:58.094 Would you do it again? 526 00:29:59.199 --> 00:30:05.326 I wouldn't do that show again, but I would do a show where I had control, where the storyline was what I thought. 527 00:30:05.386 --> 00:30:12.213 It would be when I say storyline, I mean, I was told this was about successful women in New York City having a great time. 528 00:30:12.274 --> 00:30:12.494 Right. 529 00:30:13.135 --> 00:30:15.637 I still think there needs to be a show about that. 530 00:30:15.717 --> 00:30:16.018 Yeah. 531 00:30:16.298 --> 00:30:18.981 Because we have you and I, let's just say we did this show. 532 00:30:19.001 --> 00:30:19.161 Okay. 533 00:30:19.201 --> 00:30:19.301 Okay. 534 00:30:19.922 --> 00:30:20.462 Talk me through it. 535 00:30:20.583 --> 00:30:23.845 We have enough inherent drama in our lives already. 536 00:30:23.985 --> 00:30:25.847 We don't need to make it up and be close to each other. 537 00:30:26.387 --> 00:30:35.194 So for me, I still think there's a great way to showcase incredible women that just have stuff going on and you see all sides of it. 538 00:30:35.474 --> 00:30:35.714 Yeah. 539 00:30:35.774 --> 00:30:39.717 I mean, if the goal were learning, I think that's very true. 540 00:30:40.298 --> 00:30:46.183 If the goal is just to be like massively entertained, but like in the most schadenfreude way possible. 541 00:30:46.923 --> 00:30:48.806 You might need some cultivated trauma. 542 00:30:49.227 --> 00:30:56.337 But I, you know, again, I think and I we talked about it a lot, like as you were beginning the process there and thinking through

it and whatever. 543 00:30:56.778 --> 00:30:59.502 I think that like it's good to be able to learn what you'd be like in any given situation. 544 00:30:59.522 --> 00:31:01.745 And I do think you have to be able to learn what you'd be like in any given situation. 545 00:31:01.785 --> 00:31:02.306 held your own. 546 00:31:02.326 --> 00:31:09.953 And I do think you stayed true to yourself and you can't control what editors and things happen in the background, et cetera. 547 00:31:10.013 --> 00:31:10.834 And there were hard parts. 548 00:31:10.854 --> 00:31:13.256 I mean, look, you also, I think you're a deeply optimistic person. 549 00:31:13.276 --> 00:31:15.038 You've said you're also a trusting person. 550 00:31:15.078 --> 00:31:16.019 You're a good person. 551 00:31:16.059 --> 00:31:19.042 And I think you trust people to do right by you. 552 00:31:19.082 --> 00:31:19.583 And, you know, 553 00:31:20.123 --> 00:31:21.604 It's not always going to be. 554 00:31:21.704 --> 00:31:22.445 Not always. 555 00:31:22.465 --> 00:31:23.965 I didn't trust the right people. 556 00:31:23.985 --> 00:31:25.306 But Gavin also warned me. 557 00:31:25.346 --> 00:31:30.089 He was like, because he, as a director, knows how these things can be sliced and diced. 558 00:31:30.129 --> 00:31:39.295 And he's like, just get ready for you to not even be recognizable on TV if they have a certain storyline or agenda that you need to hit. 559 00:31:39.435 --> 00:31:41.536 And I was like, nah. 560 00:31:42.794 --> 00:31:43.274 You're wrong. 561 00:31:43.334 --> 00:31:45.496 You don't know what you're talking about, Mr. Director. 562 00:31:46.616 --> 00:31:48.957 Did they have you have some like an affair on the episode? 563 00:31:48.997 --> 00:31:50.138 No, that was all my fault. 564 00:31:50.338 --> 00:31:51.098 That was all my fault. 565 00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:51.839 Okay. 566 00:31:52.019 --> 00:31:52.299 Yeah. 567 00:31:52.339 --> 00:32:01.604 It was supposed to be a rumor, a salacious rumor that we started to just prove to the one rumor monger of the group because all these girls would believe her bullshit all day. 568 00:32:01.624 --> 00:32:05.606 I was like, here's an easy way to show everyone that she's a liar. 569 00:32:05.686 --> 00:32:06.927 Just start a rumor about me. 570 00:32:07.707 --> 00:32:09.488 And it backfired on me. 571 00:32:10.128 --> 00:32:10.248 Ugh. 572 00:32:10.488 --> 00:32:10.848 Whatever. 573 00:32:11.608 --> 00:32:12.488 It's fine. 574 00:32:12.589 --> 00:32:14.549 It's a self-inflicted wound. 575 00:32:15.069 --> 00:32:15.509 It was. 576 00:32:15.709 --> 00:32:16.009 It was. 577 00:32:16.329 --> 00:32:17.669 But again, a learning experience. 578 00:32:17.689 --> 00:32:24.511 And I do think that like in all your lifetimes and you're like a cat, you know, you've had all these amazing experiences. 579 00:32:24.691 --> 00:32:36.993 And honestly, through like the highest points of each of these eras, like the highest point of getting to be a part of fashion and just create a vision and have it come to life, you know, building a huge social media presence. 580 00:32:37.373 --> 00:32:42.598 having children, being able to be nimble and travel the world and have the flexibility to do those things. 581 00:32:42.918 --> 00:32:45.020 Can we talk about the Brooks Nader thing? 582 00:32:45.080 --> 00:32:45.320 Yes. 583 00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:46.421 Grace Ann Nader, her sister. 584 00:32:46.782 --> 00:32:47.903 Grace Ann Nader. 585 00:32:47.983 --> 00:32:48.223 Yes. 586 00:32:48.463 --> 00:32:48.904 Okay. 587 00:32:48.944 --> 00:32:49.404 Little sis. 588 00:32:49.584 --> 00:32:50.205 Little sis. 589 00:32:50.365 --> 00:32:50.545 Okay. 590 00:32:50.565 --> 00:32:51.506 Tell us about the collaboration. 591 00:32:51.686 --> 00:32:52.006 Okay. 592 00:32:52.046 --> 00:32:55.269 So I met Grace Ann when I was looking for a CFDA date. 593 00:32:55.289 --> 00:32:59.813 And as people in fashion know, like it matters who you bring to this event. 594 00:32:59.913 --> 00:33:01.175 It's a very publicized event. 595 00:33:01.635 --> 00:33:07.599 You know, so my PR agency was able to get me in touch with Grace and I was like, I hope she's not stupid and boring. 596 00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:09.941 And she was phenomenal. 597 00:33:10.401 --> 00:33:11.202 Phenomenal. 598 00:33:11.222 --> 00:33:12.263 We had a great time. 599 00:33:12.283 --> 00:33:12.923 So fun. 600 00:33:12.983 --> 00:33:13.184 Yeah. 601 00:33:13.244 --> 00:33:16.086 And then I cast her for my spring campaign and she was great there. 602 00:33:16.106 --> 00:33:19.788 And then we were talking about doing a fun collab. 603 00:33:20.449 --> 00:33:23.011 So we have a jacket, a shoe and a bag. 604 00:33:23.411 --> 00:33:25.373 The bag's named after her mom, Holland. 605 00:33:25.393 --> 00:33:25.493 Yeah. 606 00:33:26.493 --> 00:33:27.894 And I don't know. 607 00:33:28.114 --> 00:33:30.496 We just had fun designing and bringing the collection to life. 608 00:33:30.596 --> 00:33:35.099 And it's going to be the episode, I believe, airs way after the collab comes out. 609 00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:37.981 I think it airs in like... Oh, you'll be on Love Thy Nater, their show. 610 00:33:38.222 --> 00:33:39.543 I went back on reality TV. 611 00:33:39.683 --> 00:33:40.323 This is cool. 612 00:33:40.403 --> 00:33:41.144 But as myself... 613 00:33:42.418 --> 00:33:45.559 The artist formerly known as Rebecca Winkoff. 614 00:33:45.719 --> 00:33:47.320 I also love that it's really deeply full. 615 00:33:47.340 --> 00:33:52.801 I mean, you know, people who were around and aware of watching, you know, the OC and Laguna Beach, etc. 616 00:33:52.841 --> 00:33:53.822 And the early aughts. 617 00:33:53.842 --> 00:33:54.402 My big debut. 618 00:33:54.922 --> 00:33:58.163 When you gifted a bag to LC, it was the biggest deal. 619 00:33:58.383 --> 00:33:58.683 I mean. 620 00:33:58.703 --> 00:33:59.023 Huge. 621 00:33:59.283 --> 00:34:00.083 Her and Kristen. 622 00:34:00.283 -->

00:34:00.564 Does it? 623 00:34:00.984 --> 00:34:01.584 Amazing. 624 00:34:01.624 --> 00:34:01.884 Yeah. 625 00:34:02.104 --> 00:34:08.427 Does it feel like a return, like a full circle moment of just the, you know, life repeating itself in a funny way? 626 00:34:10.327 --> 00:34:10.687 No. 627 00:34:10.707 --> 00:34:12.068 Are you different? 628 00:34:12.108 --> 00:34:13.188 Are you very different now? 629 00:34:13.308 --> 00:34:14.069 Than I was then? 630 00:34:14.089 --> 00:34:14.289 Yeah. 631 00:34:14.489 --> 00:34:14.749 Oh, my God. 632 00:34:14.769 --> 00:34:15.429 What have you shed? 633 00:34:15.449 --> 00:34:16.690 What have you gotten more of? 634 00:34:17.190 --> 00:34:21.812 I was really hoping and always wishing that I would be like... 635 00:34:22.552 --> 00:34:27.315 anointed by Vogue, that I would be one of Anna's people, you know? 636 00:34:27.736 --> 00:34:32.119 And then once you're in that, there's like a propulsion within fashion. 637 00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:38.003 And I felt like I was always trying to be in those circles and those parties and in that blah. 638 00:34:38.283 --> 00:34:45.628 And like, thank God I wasn't because it only worked for us when we went the other way and we went on our own path. 639 00:34:46.269 --> 00:34:50.031 So I wasted a lot of energy and like, why aren't I good enough for Vogue? 640 00:34:50.231 --> 00:34:50.652 Why? 641 00:34:50.672 --> 00:34:50.752 Why? 642 00:34:51.598 --> 00:34:52.979 Now I'm like, I don't give a shit. 643 00:34:54.721 --> 00:34:57.463 Well, my next question was going to be, are you a grudge holder? 644 00:34:58.184 --> 00:34:59.004 So elaborate. 645 00:34:59.064 --> 00:34:59.645 Just a little. 646 00:34:59.965 --> 00:35:00.646 Just a little. 647 00:35:01.606 --> 00:35:03.208 I'm definitely a grudge holder. 648 00:35:03.308 --> 00:35:03.528 Yeah. 649 00:35:03.768 --> 00:35:03.968 Yeah. 650 00:35:04.389 --> 00:35:09.013 If you do me dirty or you betray me after I've trusted you, the grudge is held. 651 00:35:09.682 --> 00:35:11.524 Has there ever been a rehabilitation? 652 00:35:11.565 --> 00:35:13.527 Has anyone ever been brought back into the fold? 653 00:35:14.008 --> 00:35:19.755 Yeah, I think what like friends apologize or like, you know, you have an honest conversation, you see each other's perspective. 654 00:35:20.416 --> 00:35:22.739 But there are definitely people I'm holding grudges against. 655 00:35:23.420 --> 00:35:23.921 Yeah. 656 00:35:25.742 --> 00:35:26.743 The grudge list. 657 00:35:26.983 --> 00:35:27.883 The grudge list. 658 00:35:28.443 --> 00:35:32.825 I mean, how like how serious was the transgression that would like land you on the grudge list? 659 00:35:33.145 --> 00:35:34.186 Public humiliation. 660 00:35:34.266 --> 00:35:34.526 OK. 661 00:35:35.066 --> 00:35:35.346 I know. 662 00:35:35.566 --> 00:35:37.307 Yeah. 663 00:35:37.547 --> 00:35:38.427 That suits the belt. 664 00:35:38.527 --> 00:35:39.608 Just like a little grudge there. 665 00:35:40.008

--> 00:35:44.990 Have you ever designed something that you didn't like, but you knew it would sell? 666 00:35:46.151 --> 00:35:50.272 So, yes, there was a time period in 2005. 667 00:35:50.512 --> 00:35:51.733 And this has happened many times. 668 00:35:52.886 --> 00:35:56.367 I just, going back to what I love, wanted a brand of neutrals. 669 00:35:56.487 --> 00:36:00.728 I wanted blacks, shades of brown, white, like no color. 670 00:36:01.208 --> 00:36:03.729 To me, a colored handbag was like, ew. 671 00:36:04.949 --> 00:36:06.769 And I guess I'll just say it doesn't matter. 672 00:36:07.069 --> 00:36:12.031 Neiman Marcus came in and they were like, we want coral and tangerine and turquoise. 673 00:36:12.791 --> 00:36:15.711 And I remember sitting there and I had a sea of leather swatches. 674 00:36:15.751 --> 00:36:19.332 I was like, I'm going to put every color on this card that I hate. 675 00:36:20.132 --> 00:36:22.153 And then we're going to see what they order, right? 676 00:36:22.953 --> 00:36:23.794 And they loved it. 677 00:36:24.214 --> 00:36:26.116 Why would you do that? 678 00:36:26.536 --> 00:36:29.519 That is like the worst thing. 679 00:36:29.799 --> 00:36:34.623 It's always if you like, OK, a photo from a photo shoot, you're just like just to be I'll just be nice. 680 00:36:34.643 --> 00:36:35.204 Fine, fine, fine. 681 00:36:35.584 --> 00:36:36.825 It's always the one they're going to pick. 682 00:36:36.845 --> 00:36:39.607 The one they picked every like they loved it. 683 00:36:39.627 --> 00:36:43.411 They're like, this is the most gorgeous, colorful thing I've ever seen in the bag sold well. 684 00:36:43.451 --> 00:36:44.972 And I was like, what do I know? 685 00:36:45.252 --> 00:36:46.213 Guess women want color. 686 00:36:46.233 --> 00:36:46.974 So I'll give them color. 687 00:36:47.614 --> 00:36:49.794 So I've handled my relationship with color. 688 00:36:50.234 --> 00:36:50.575 I have. 689 00:36:50.915 --> 00:36:54.395 But that was a moment where I was like, every ugly color, you go on the card. 690 00:36:55.095 --> 00:36:57.176 Look at you expanding into color. 691 00:36:58.116 --> 00:36:58.656 That's so funny. 692 00:36:58.736 --> 00:37:03.137 And I mean, look, it's, I think, you know, you found ways to keep it very chic and very on brand. 693 00:37:03.157 --> 00:37:11.838 But I think people have this fantasy of like, I'll make a restaurant, I'll make a brand, I'll make a clothing line, I'll make whatever, and it'll just be the things that I love. 694 00:37:12.098 --> 00:37:14.539 And getting really in tune with color 695 00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:26.606 what the people that you serve and the people who love you and want to support you actually need and crave and want in their lives is, you know, it's probably the hardest but most important piece of the puzzle. 696 00:37:27.006 --> 00:37:31.809 I was given really good advice by two people, Cindy Krupp and Leander Medin. 697 00:37:31.889 --> 00:37:32.149 Okay. 698 00:37:32.630

--> 00:37:40.034 I was holding on to that artistic, this was probably 2008, that artistic, like only everything I think is great should be out there. 699 00:37:40.114 --> 00:37:40.875 No dilution. 700 00:37:40.895 --> 00:37:40.995 Yeah. 701 00:37:41.775 --> 00:37:47.100 And Cindy said, do you want to have like an artisanal brand that's very tiny and niche? 702 00:37:47.300 --> 00:37:50.763 Do you want to sell your watches to go on vacation like my other client? 703 00:37:51.223 --> 00:37:52.965 Or would you like to have like a big brand? 704 00:37:53.686 --> 00:37:59.871 And for that, you have to expand beyond New York and L.A. as your like primary customer. 705 00:37:59.951 --> 00:38:02.493 And what is the middle of America love and want? 706 00:38:02.513 --> 00:38:02.614 Yeah. 707 00:38:03.254 --> 00:38:04.756 And Leandra said something very similar. 708 00:38:04.796 --> 00:38:07.478 She said, at the pinnacle, Rebecca, that's you. 709 00:38:07.498 --> 00:38:09.160 And then there's a triangle. 710 00:38:09.581 --> 00:38:13.044 And the most deluded version of your brand, it might just be a stud on a flip-flop. 711 00:38:13.204 --> 00:38:16.948 But that makes a woman in Kentucky feel like she is the coolest of the cool. 712 00:38:17.409 --> 00:38:20.171 And as long as, like, that stud ladder is back up to your brand – 713 00:38:20.832 --> 00:38:21.392 then great. 714 00:38:21.473 --> 00:38:22.894 Then that's her version of that. 715 00:38:22.914 --> 00:38:30.980 It's like, you know, a woman buying Chanel lipstick because she can't afford the bag or, you know, a Burberry slipper because, you know, you might not buy the trench coat. 716 00:38:31.080 --> 00:38:33.061 And so to me, after I... 717 00:38:34.098 --> 00:38:37.361 listeners say that to me, I've always just been like, okay, it's a triangle. 718 00:38:37.441 --> 00:38:46.628 And as long as everything fits what you think that brand should be, and we don't start looking like another company, then yeah, like fashion should be accessible. 719 00:38:46.688 --> 00:38:49.590 And some women want it more extreme than others. 720 00:38:49.710 --> 00:38:52.913 But as long as it speaks to that, then that's where I sort of play. 721 00:38:53.593 --> 00:38:54.134 I love that. 722 00:38:54.654 --> 00:39:01.319 What's something you know to be true about yourself and your next chapter, but you're not willing to admit yet? 723 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:02.340 Oh, God. 724 00:39:03.292 --> 00:39:07.118 Okay, I know it to be true, so I have admitted it to myself. 725 00:39:08.019 --> 00:39:13.467 But I think that we get stuck on our name and who we are and our personas. 726 00:39:14.408 --> 00:39:17.392 And being attached to that is the only reason for... 727 00:39:19.132 --> 00:39:20.713 succeeding or finding pleasure. 728 00:39:20.853 --> 00:39:26.957 And I had a moment probably five months ago where I was like, I can detach if I want. 729 00:39:27.177 --> 00:39:42.006 I'm not planning to anytime soon, but I can detach from that and from the doors it opens and from the experiences I get and all the joy that comes with being, you know, in this company that built something big. 730 00:39:42.286 --> 00:39:44.528 And for the first time, I was like, oh, I could let that go. 731 00:39:45.568 --> 00:39:47.510 And I, again, no plans to leave. 732 00:39:47.650 --> 00:39:49.071 And I still love what I do. 733 00:39:49.131 --> 00:39:52.814 But it was just the first moment that I didn't feel like I have to be doing this forever. 734 00:39:53.995 --> 00:39:54.455 I love that. 735 00:39:54.776 --> 00:39:55.016 Yeah. 736 00:39:55.596 --> 00:39:57.438 Because it's been an amazing arc. 737 00:39:57.898 --> 00:39:59.059 And there's many more arcs to come. 738 00:39:59.079 --> 00:39:59.940 There's more arcs coming. 739 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:00.601 I love it. 740 00:40:00.901 --> 00:40:01.281 Thank you.