บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ When Your First Language Is Sign Language: Growing Up as a CODA

wasn't her I would say her mother tongue. It wasn't, you know, what she grew up hearing because that couldn't be the case. speaker-1: Exactly. It wasn't what she was used to. speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. Wow. So singing probably didn't happen either, I'm guessing. speaker-1: Well, we're saying I don't I think it kind of did the opposite with the codas because ⁓ which is a chat child of de a deaf adults, but ⁓ is because we were able to be loud and crazy. So we would actually like grab the mic microphone sing because our parents could couldn't hear and all that we were known as the fun house because all of our friends would come over because we were able to play music loud or or th things like that. But one thing I did notice cause I went to ⁓ happy hour with my my friend the the other day who's deaf. And she ⁓ she had sat me like on my back was towards the door. And I've never since since I was a child been able to sit with my back to the door because I didn't know who could who can come in. And my parents didn't eat didn't either because they can't hear. And so ⁓ when I switched my myself, she's like, ⁓ that that's a co a coda thing, isn't it? And because her kids did it too. I'm like, ⁓ I didn't know that. But it was just because we can't see or hear anybody. From behind me, so I've always d done that since I was a kid. speaker-0: Well, and that makes sense on multiple levels. unrelated but interesting kind of comparison. And I can see where w you would want to do that as someone who didn't hear, it's just a good safety thing because they always tell us, you know, in this world that we live in, you always want to sit someplace where you can see the door so that if something were to happen, you would have an exit strategy. And so if you can't hear something coming, even more so, you'd want to have that visual so you could react and get to safety. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. And my my dad always teased 'cause he always 'cause we're Italian, so we always wanted to be in the mop mafia. So he always told me, Never turn turn your back 'cause you don't know if ⁓ if a person's coming to get you. speaker-0: I talk a lot with my hands and so my my I'm thinking about the Italian thing. I'm thinking it's it's an easy shoe and you might assume that someone was sign language because they just there's a joke about you'd have to tie your hands so you wouldn't talk with them. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. And then when I'm in like closings for the the real estate, I always tend to like sign or 'cause I always talk talk with one with my hands and I try to jump in and sign. So I literally have to like sit on my hands to make sure I don't interrupt the interpreter or anything. speaker-0: Okay. So so do do you with your real estate business, do you primarily are a lot of your clientele deaf or is that just kind of the exception and that you've just gotta control yourself because of habit? speaker-1: Yeah, it it's a s a specialty. So I I deal with all all ⁓ di different kinds of cl clients, but I I s I specialize in the deaf and hard hard of hearing community. speaker-0: Makes sense. I mean you're a natural for it. Why not? What a wonderful service. speaker-1: Yeah. Or just for them. Yeah, exactly. And then I developed ASL Realty, which is a nate nationwide one where I can find where I connect ⁓ ASL a agents with other clients nationwide, not just Colorado. speaker-0: That is such a nice service for them. I I'm sure they appreciate that 'cause speaker-1: Yeah, it helps because c communication and having access to the way you c communicate in any white language, I think is very, very important. speaker-0: Exactly. Well, and there's also a comfort level. You know, those of us in the speaking world, we take so much for granted. And yes, there are resources we could, you know, find someone to do the, you know, translation for us. But how much better to have someone who's used to the community and and has that comfort level because that also makes them as their customers more comfortable. speaker-1: Exactly because we know their culture and like like for we we know a deaf friend friendly house, so I know that that's more preferable for them where when when you walk walk in and the kitchen's open to the dining room or living room, that that way that they can c communicate with guests or their family there. ⁓ very yeah, that that that way everybody can can communicate with with each other. And a lot a lot of people don't know that unl unless you're actually in the deaf culture. speaker-0: Four plans are very popular. Yeah. See, I like open floor plans myself, but I never thought about it from from a cultural standpoint that that would be desirable. It makes perfect sense now that we say that, but it wouldn't have occurred to me. speaker-1: Me too. Yeah, exactly. I and I've always loved open floor floor plans as well. And I don't know if it was because I was raised with an open floor floor plan or it was because of that. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. I do think it's just something about that extra space. It's just like even like when you go into RV, the RVs that are cramped but are just you know miserable, but you go into an RV that has plenty of open space, it just you take a deep breath and you go, I can relax here. And I think it's the same open floor house. It's that you have that we're designed to be in open air. I mean, look at the great outdoors. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. We're supposed it's supposed it's not supposed to be confined or like closed off. speaker-0: Exactly, exactly. That's much an air movement. I used to have this house and there was this wall between the kitchen and living room and ⁓ my goodness, the kitchen was always hot and the living room was always cold. And we were eventually knocked down that wall so we could have an open floor plan. It's like my house looks better. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. But yeah, it makes such a big difference. speaker-0: I could talk real estate with you all day long, but I

wanna talk about your So I've had a little bit of exposure with the deaf community just through some volunteer work I've been involved with off and on over the years. And I would imagine, because it was new for me when I first was exposed to it, but there's this thing called home sign, these folks who never had official training in ⁓ ASL. So they came up with their own version of sign language. ⁓ how do you intercounter with that? Or how do you react with when you encounter that? speaker-1: Yeah, and and we we have that too. It we call it slang. So it's like it's it's just like when you're when you're talking and ⁓ using your voice, you're you're using slang words and and things like that. So we we use that in site sign language as well. Because there's actually a lot of signs that I do personally that's different than what they would teach you because that's just the way I was taught. Because there's like favorite and then I do favorite. So it's just a lot of different like the the you could do a lot of d different signs but the same meaning. speaker-0: So a lot of context probably means a lot or maybe the facial expression with that sign. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, it's very important for us to read. We can read bot body language, fa facial expressions, just they're feeling in g general so easy, like that. That's w how we communicate is through expression and feel feeling peop people's energy. speaker-0: I believe it. You know, as a hearing person who's not really part of that community, ⁓ I've been in situations where a public speaker has been deaf ⁓ or has, you know, dual that dual dual ⁓ language. And I remember the first time I sat down in this auditorium and I sat there and I was watching his hands and I wasn't really watching his face. And I remember I was almost like, Well, I had such a headache from focusing on the hands. I later learned that I needed to like zoom out and take in the body language and the face and not focus so much on the hands, but speaker-1: Exactly. And the expressions like the talk. ⁓ yeah. The expressions give away so much. And I think that that like I think that's why I can read people easy easy and then be able to connect with p people because that that's what our our culture is. It's connection and and like feel feeling pe people's energies and stuff. speaker-0: Absolutely. Absolutely. ⁓ so the book was released when? speaker-1: So the paperback was released ⁓ in September and then we did it in phases. And then so the the most recent release was the audio and that was just a month ago. speaker-0: Very nice. Yeah. Very nice. ⁓ do you have plans for additional books? Maybe is this the first of a series or do you have other stories that you're looking to tell? speaker-1: ⁓ I've thought about that and people say that I should write another book. So I haven't decided yet, but I do have the book right now being translated in Spanish and it's also being signed. So that's in the works right now. So it'll be one of the few books

that are actually in sign language. speaker-0: So this book is for people of the sign language community, but it's also meant to help other communities. So if you were gonna talk to someone that hadn't, you know, was of a different community, not sign language, what would be the strongest thing from your book that they strongest reason why they would want to read this book? speaker-1: Connection and learning how to communicate with others, not just the deaf cult culture, but learning to c communicate with others. even if you you you both speak English. It's just about being connection and learning how to include people and just not let let letting people feel like ⁓ outcast and outsiders. And that and that's what the book mostly is about, is about inclusion and accessibility and how to learn how to to communicate with better or with people better, like with leaders and things like that. speaker-0: So it could have application even in a business world, then it sounds like. speaker-1: ⁓ exactly. Because in in and I have all the tips for for that. And what one of the stuff for a lot of leaders and business peop people that they they they don't know is that there's no ex accessibility for people. And I feel like the when especially for the deaf deaf and hard of hearing community or even s Spanish people too, it they just don't have the they don't have the connection or the accessibility to people who who can com communicate in their language. And I because I remember my dad never had an interpreter at his like his s his meetings for his work. And so a lot a lot of things like that go like pe people don't don't don't think that it's net necessary. Well you can just write or you can f figure it out. And that's not how I think that but that's not how you make s somebody feel like they belong, especially in a workspace. speaker-0: I get that. And that is at least as a young person. I remember as a as a teenager delivering my newspapers and I had someone deaf on my route. And that's what I literally thought. I was like, well, he can just write me a note. I have no idea now looking back. Did he know how to write? I I assumed he did, but I really don't remember. But I remember thinking that. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. And I feel like people are afraid of the unknown. So they don't even go there. But that's why my motto is if you just try with s somebody, like try to h h help them. You you don't need to know know their language, but if you're just get giving the effort to like guide them into an another place, i if they're lost or or anything, that that just makes a huge effort on you on our part. And it makes a big di di difference to them because they feel like they're accepted. speaker-0: Absolutely. One resource I am just so happy exists is that, you know, of course now with the cell phones, it's even easier because if they can like if they can type, you know, ⁓ a message on their phone, but they also have the free I think they get their cell phones for free and they have access to an interpreter. Is that right? Or am I taking? speaker-1: Yeah, ⁓ I don't know about the the self support. That'd be a good program though if they don't have that. But they I know that we do they do get ⁓ free access to an interpreter. So they have the source sourcen and purple and ⁓ there's one more I can't ⁓ convo I think is what it is so so you do have ⁓ access to that. So what when you call a hearing person, there's a person on the other line with the TV with the deaf or hard of hearing person. and they're signing and you you just talk talk to them exactly the way you would talk to a a the person that you're that you're speaking with. speaker-0: Absolutely. And I stations. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Back then, yeah. I'm I'm sure. I mean it's probably been what in the last fifteen, twenty years. speaker-1: Yeah, we we used to have the t the T T TYs is what that they called and there was these little typewriters that would just like you would type type back and forth and you put your phone on there. We don't even really have landlines now. I don't even know how we would even do that. speaker-0: It's a good point. Yeah, I was thinking it's probably closer to a Zoom call or a or a don't know, a FaceTime maybe. I don't know. I do know that in my work day, my my job that pays the bills, I d occasionally get an interpreter on the line, you know, that ⁓ for someone who is deaf and it's yeah, it's a very normal conversation. speaker-1: Yeah. You just talk just like they're there right in front of you. Exactly. It's it's great how long c or how how far t technology has come since since I was a child. ⁓ I know. speaker-0: And thank goodness for it. I mean sometimes technology is like, Okay, do we need this? But in this is a case of yes, we definitely need this. speaker-1: We have to have accessibility. speaker-0: Absolutely. what do you think could further improve things for people who are deaf or for those of us who interact with them? What other things do you think could happen in the future if you had a guess or it had a wish list? speaker-1: I think making like having more in interpreters on TV. Like I I know net now we're getting it on the the Super Bowl and some new news stations, but I think people think that they can just read the the captions and when they do that, they're not watching the show. And so if you have like an interpreter there, they they they can actually enjoy like the music or the show instead of paying attention and having to co concentrate on reading. And so I I think that that can prove which what they which they are trying to and they're coming a long a long way w with that. I I think that that would help a lot, just to have people be able to not think that they're like that we're we're fine because we have close cap caption versus having a somebody there signing. speaker-0: I think you're spot on with that. ⁓ this is a very sideways comparison, but ⁓ when I go to the opera, because I enjoy opera once in a

blue moon, but it's so hard to read what's going on above the stage because you focus there or you focus on the actors. It's hard to focus on both. ⁓ speaker-1: Well and speaker-0: So I can imagine in the world of a deaf person if they're trying to read the scroll at the bottom of a screen while they watch. I mean that's two different things you're trying to do at the same time. And so you miss like little clues as far as like the actions on the screen because you're so focused on the words. So I can see that. speaker-1: Exactly. And they they just ⁓ interpreted or they have I think it was frozen. I have to check to make sure. And now now they have it in where they're they're actually doing sign language. So the whole the whole cartoon, which I'll have to find out which one is, but I'm most positive it's frozen, is all in s in A ASL, which I think is amazing because so now they they they can watch it like a real like a real show and they they they can actually pay pay attention to the the the movie, which I think I think that that's would be I think that one would be amazing. That speaker-0: is that more of that if they would do that with everything. I don't know if it's possible, but ⁓ my goodness, if it was. speaker-1: Yeah. That that that that would be great just to have everybody get get together and just sign. speaker-0: Exactly. Well I can I can hear b people out there groaning as I say this 'cause AI technology, right? So if they could use AI technology, apply it to a movie that's already in existence and just ⁓ change the people's hand movements to be the sign language with in a movie that's already existing. That way if the actor doesn't know sign language, but the AI does. speaker-1: Yeah it does. Yeah, that's actually a good thought, I wonder. Then the whole movie can be in that. speaker-0: Exactly. Just you know, adjust this one thing on the screen, you know, just mm yeah, I I can hear a lot of people r eye rolling right now. speaker-1: I know I wonder how AI technology is gonna work with with like ASL and and and th things like that because the one thing that I think AI will take out of it would be the personal experience and and the and the per personal like touch. I I think that that that might like because I think with sign language and our culture, ⁓ you're very connected and you're very like you like the the human c connection and I think that makes a big difference. speaker-0: Absolutely. Yeah, there has to be borders. And even in the hearing world, there you have to have certain restrictions, certain borders. You know, there's a point where AI may be not welcome for certain things. ⁓ for for me, like I had something when I was going through my pictures, they're like, you know, bring your picture to life with AI. I'm like, no. No, we don't want that. Because then people could pretend to pretend to be me. We're not doing that. That's a lot. speaker-1: Exactly. Yeah, my son's like, don't do that because then they can steal all your information. I'm like, and I guess I never thought about that until he was t telling me 'cause I did one of those like sketches on Facebook, the little cartoon sketches that's going around. And he's like, Mom, don't do that. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. Something that looks like innocent fun sometimes there's more things that that we just don't see. We don't see that danger. It never occurs to us because we don't think that way. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. speaker-0: So we have to be so careful. So yeah, there's boundaries and and that's just for our safety. We just have to create those boundaries. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. speaker-0: I'm thinking back, there was this T V show I used to enjoy. It was switched at birth. I bet I'm betting the k the the sign language community absolutely loved that show, but I'm I'm guessing. speaker-1: Yeah. No, I I I d I can't remember because that was a a while ago. I wonder I I should go watch that. Yeah. I know. I I I bet they they would love that show. ⁓ and imagine like a lot a lot of parents, like I think there's only like ten percent of parents who actually learn s sign language when their children are deaf. And so imagine if you did like switch the child at birth and then you would have to learn all that stuff, but then when you go back, the other person would have to Like ⁓ learn the culture all all all different. Yeah. Interesting. speaker-0: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, it the beauty of certain television shows and movies is they they highlight those type of things. ⁓ back when I was in my 20s and I lived in Dallas, we wound up going to the movie theater to see one movie, ended up that wasn't available. We we we wound up in this movie, Mr. Holland's Opus. And that was kind of the scenario. He had a son who was born hearing, but at some point in his early Childhood, like before he even reached toddler, I think his son became deaf. And so while mom, you know, kind of was in a situation where she had to learn sign language because she really wanted to communicate with her son. He was trying to follow the professional advice and not do the things. But at the end of the day, eventually he had to learn if he really wanted to connect on an emotional level with his son. So I love it when entertainment also educates us. speaker-1: Exactly. Yeah, no, I I a hundred percent because I think it makes the children feel like isolated because like if the parents don't know sign language or and you're you're trying to connect with your child, it's hard because they they're it's not their their li language and they can't hear, so they need to fill you and cu communicate with them, I think. speaker-0: A bridge has to be built. They don't have the equipment you do. Therefore, you have to build the bridge. speaker-1: Exactly. It's like bridging the the gaps between worlds. speaker-0: Absolutely. ⁓ if only it was as easy to to learn a language as it is to download a program. speaker-1: I know, right? I know my

son went to Japan ⁓ and he was trying to learn their their their l language and he like was trying and trying and it was really hard because it's hard when especially he's 20, but it's hard as an adult to learn a new l l language. But he was able to get around and he loved it. speaker-0: That's so good. Immersion helps to some extent, but but yeah. And the earlier I I wish they wouldn't wait, and maybe they don't anymore. You know, I'm I'm an old woman now, but but ⁓ you know, when I was in school, you didn't even begin to talk about foreign language until you were a a teen or 13 or 18 years old. I mean, even that's too late in my opinion. speaker-1: Exactly. Yeah, I know. And I went to a bilingual ⁓ elementary school, junior high and high school. So for me, they they put me in Spanish because they wanted me to learn a third lit language from kindergarten. So I took Spanish all the way from kindergarten to twelfth grade, which is like 13 years. And I don't remember any of it because I didn't use it every day or anything like that. So I I couldn't remember it. I can like pick up stuff, but ⁓ but so I I wish I'd have stuck out with that because it would have been easy to learn, but I can't even imagine learning. sign language as an adult, but it is peop it is easy and peop people do it. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and especially if you have a reason. I do think often, I know in my case, I'm more motivated to do something if I have a specific cause. A specific reason why I had to. If I had a deaf child, I believe that I would find a way. If I had to watch YouTube all the time, if I had to interact with whoever I had to interact with, I think like that woman in that movie, I would want to interact with my child and I would make those strides. But everyone has their circumstances, their their personal issues to deal with and, you know, obstacles and, you know, we all have to make our choices. I just I like to think best of people and hope that they would make that choice. speaker-1: Make that choice. Yeah, exactly. And there's a lot of re resources out there for that to learn ⁓ ASL and to learn di different types of sign sign language. You can even do it online now. And there's a there's it's getting more and more pop popular to where there's a lot of there's a lot more resources for that. speaker-0: Absolutely. And there's something kind of cool about sign language, you know, as far as even from a again a safety standpoint, because not a lot of people know it, maybe a handful really. If you needed to discreetly get something accomplished, or whether it's over a distance with each other or in a dangerous situation, sign language is a really nice thing to have in your back pocket. speaker-1: Exactly. Yeah. And then there's a lot of sig signs that peop people teach if they are in danger. And then if like 'cause my sisters and my my brothers, like if we're at a place and we wanna o order s something, we're across the room. We could just sign to to each

other what we wanted. So I mean it comes in very handy. speaker-0: You're at the airport, you're in a football stadium, whatever. But yeah, I mean how great that you don't have to scream and s you know, strain your voice. You can just say, Hey, blah blah blah blah blah blah you know I have no c idea if I signed anything real or not in that moment, but speaker-1: Exactly. speaker-0: But how cool is that to have that option? it's interesting to me, and it probably goes back to just the differences in languages in general, but just the fact that there's an American sign language, there's a Spanish Sign Language, there's a blah blah blah sign language, that sign language, even though it's a universal thing that people in have that issue, that there's those differences in how they sign for the same things. Like You would think like food would be a universal across the board no matter what, or certain words should just be universal no matter where you're at. But speaker-1: Yeah, ex and it's not that all count countries have their their own sign and some some even use their bodies to sign. Like it's really interesting. It's it's just like having an accent. Yeah. Like the people, yeah. And e even like when we sign here and which is ASL, even though my t my sign is di different on certain words, it's ⁓ for me it's it's just like it's because I'm from the East Coast, so I have an accent. speaker-0: Which is like you know, again, like how that happened? I mean, yeah, I mean, ⁓ you know, you get the whole okay accent thing, even the slang thing, but it's funny because it's like, well, I mean, accents usually pick up because of of the audio part of thing, but it's amazing that that can be the case even in a silent language. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. It's different. And then when you're when you have your your brothers and sisters or different friends that are signing, we have our own sign that you make make up j just like you you would when you're audio. But yeah, you it's d it's d definitely a d different type types of sign. speaker-0: I bet, I bet. Probably even the way you would tell each other jokes would be so much different. Like it'd probably lose a lot in translation, I would imagine. Just like speaker-1: funny that you're saying that because we were talking about this yet yesterday with my friend because I don't so her kids don't get jokes a lot either and neither does neither do I I never have so everyone I always says are you you why they think that I'm dingy or so something like no I just don't get the joke like I was raised by deaf parents I was raised in a in a deaf deaf culture and we we didn't like joke like like that to so for me I'm like I don't even get what you're saying. It's not funny. speaker-0: Yeah. So what would you say was the biggest challenge in being raised by deaf parents? speaker-1: I think for me, watching ⁓ my parents be I isolated and making them feel like they're an outsider or let less than just because they're they're deaf. And so for me it was just seeing them feel like an outcast and then us being ⁓ made made fun of because our parents were were d different. I think that was the the hardest part. Yeah. speaker-0: I would say so. If you were going to say what's the best thing or maybe the advantage of having deaf parents, what would your what would your thoughts be on that? speaker-1: I think I'm so glad that I was raised in that cult culture because it made me learn r resilience and empathy and and compassion. So I think it made me stronger as a as a human. speaker-0: Otherwise. And empathetic, I'm sure. Yeah. Very cool. If you wanted to share any one specific thing with our audience, if you wanted them to watch this interview and come away with one solid thought, what's what comes to your mind? speaker-1: Mine would be it would be my my motto, j just try because you don't know what the the other person is going go going through and your effort to try to help and c communicate with them or make make them feel seen or heard can can make make that their day and change their entire outlook of day. speaker-0: Very nice. ⁓ Before we get down to our closing here, we do have a random question from a previous guest. Let's see if I can read my own handwriting. speaker-1: Yeah, that's it. speaker-0: Say it's it's basic basically chicken scratch, I tell ya. Okay. So the last person, and this by the way, was a science fiction writer who who who submitted this question. So he asked, if you could be any organism on the planet other than human, what organism would you be? speaker-1: ⁓ I don't know what they're called, but they're the little, they're kind of flat and they're so cute, but they're like a they're they're in water, but it has a really no, it has a really weird name. No, they like float and they have like cute little arms and they have a cute face. I can't think of the name of it. And they pe people have them as pets and they're like this big, but it's like a water animal. So I'd be that. But it starts with like a platter or I can't think the name of it, but it's so cute. Like an Osilawa or something like that. I don't know, but it's you're gonna have to find yeah, you have to find that, but it's the cutest little thing ever. Okay. It's got like a cute face and it's just like flat and it like floats like like their arms are like the speaker-0: Yeah, to look. See, it sounds interesting. I'm I'm curious. I'm like, I'm probably gonna be like, ⁓ that's what she means. Yeah, yeah, I recognize that. But right in this moment, I'm like, what is she? speaker-1: If I w if I find it I'll send it I'll send it to you just so you know. speaker-0: I think you'll have to 'cause I'm just like trying to picture a cute little flat thing in the ocean. First thing came to my mind was a sand dollar, so obviously I'm off track. speaker-1: But they break. speaker-0: Well true. True. But they're so pretty. ⁓ and then do you have a question for a future guest? speaker-1: Yeah. I do. ⁓ I think mine is if someone or if someone who knew you ten years ago saw your life today, what would surprise them the most? speaker-0: Yeah. Saw you today. What would surprise them most? speaker-1: Yes, what what would surprise them the most? speaker-0: It's an interesting question because that could go so many different directions. It could go physical. It could go, you know, wow, your personalities change. There's so many different angles, sometimes even multiple. So I'll be curious to hear the next Yeah, I'm curious too. speaker-1: About that. speaker-0: so before we close down, ⁓ any last thoughts that you'd like to share? Any anything you'd like to tell our audience or ask our audience? speaker-1: I think just ⁓ having compassion and lit listening to others, I think that's very very important. And if we make if we it all starts with us and to make sense sent someone else feel better and that and that they they they belong. speaker-0: Right, I like that. So just to recap, one last reminder on your websites, both of them. speaker-1: It's galuccihomes.com and raisedinsilence.com. speaker-0: Perfect. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. All right. I'm going to end the recording and we'll chat for a little bit.