บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ AMD's Chief Technology Officer Mark Papermaster shares thoughts on Strength & Leadership

about, you know, as a you know, growing up playing obviously soccer, like what about just fitness in general, exercise, running, things like that that were a part of your your life up until you know when we started training together? 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:32.000 Yeah, it's always absolutely uh I'd say I've always been active, and it's been as much for my mental health as it has been for my physical health because I, as you said, I'm in tech. 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:33.680 It's you know, it's high stress. 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:35.840 I love it, but it's high stress every day. 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:46.000 And so you've gotta have, you know, really uh you have to be in training, so you need to be fit to be able to run that pace, uh, but it also is just a great uh stress outlet. 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.120 So I've done always running, um, walking, you know, getting walks in. 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:56.639 Uh we're a water sports family, so we love water skiing, weight boarding, all those things. 00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:02.319 So uh biking, just very active, but again, no strength training, no formal strength training. 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:26.240 Well, and what I've noticed, because I so I'm a you know, I would say a product of the 80s, where I like in in and you're you know, you're a little bit older than me, but uh, but I think in the 70s and 80s, it was really like you know, sports and cardiovascular fitness was really more of the like what was kind of the the masses were doing, you know, like running and group fitness classes and and things like that. 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:32.479 Strength training, which was kind of more like football players and bodybuilders, was kind of that that niche. 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:43.520 So it's been a it's it's you know, it's it's kind of this new moment in the time where the the fitness kind of greater fitness community is now engaging much more with with strength training. 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:46.159 Um let's talk about it since we're we're we're right there. 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:56.400 Like, what has been your experience kind of learning about strength training, what you feel that's different about you now that that maybe you wasn't with just doing the irregular type of training? 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:05.599 Well, uh, I'll be honest, Burton, I I never even thought about strength training until I hit my 60s because it, like you said, it was really cardio. 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:11.680 Like to me, being in shape was that I could get my jog in and I could run my whatever miles I wanted to run. 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:20.959 I was never marathon, even half marathon, but we'd my wife and I would do 10K's and we'd just go out and do whatever, two and a half, three, maybe even four mile runs. 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.879 And it's like, okay, if we can do that, we can do our long bike rides we want. 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:26.000 We're in shape. 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:37.839 And so it being in shape to me was always basically cardio and and having the uh endurance to get done whatever fun activities that we were up to at the time. 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:45.759 And then I just started uh reading more uh about you know, just as you get older, you have to be much more mindful of this. 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:50.800 And the turning point for my wife and I is actually when her her dad took a spill. 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:58.160 And so we were in a trauma unit and we were uh having to really read up about falling. 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:02.720 And they kind of uh and what we found out was that's a huge deal. 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:06.480 Like as people get older, they a lot of people get injured falling. 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:12.639 Yeah, and uh the more we read about it, the more we realized, hey, we're not doing anything to like build up our strength. 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:17.360 That because that's what I read, and you're the expert here, so you could you could talk more about it. 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:32.720 But what we read is that uh the more you build up your strength, it's like the best thing you can do uh to ensure you don't you have more, I'll say, resilience and agility as you get older, and it helps prevent that kind of injury. 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:46.800 Yeah, and a lot of times it's a personal setback or a family member who goes through something like my mom is in her 80s and and um is just dealing with, you know, she's never really done strength training, but she's stayed generally healthy. 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:54.399 But you can kind of see where she's very, you know, uh she she tends to go on walks and sometimes stumble and this and that. 00:05:54.560 --> 00:06:00.079 And so yeah, I think it's really as you see your parents get older, it's like, oh, oh, wait a second. 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:02.399 Like what can we do now? 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:08.879 You know, whether you're and for listeners, whether you're 40, 50, 60, or whatever age you are, it's never too late. 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:25.120 And I think one of the things I really have enjoyed training you over the last year and a half is how you've, you know, I mean, all these movements are pretty new bench press, squats, lunges, things, some things you're decent at, some things you really you know really challenge your your overall balance and things like that. 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:29.439 But you, you know, you just take it as it comes and try to get better every day. 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:39.519 But uh, you know, there's an at there's a mentality behind it where you're not you're not frustrated, you're not disappointed with your you're just doing what you need to be done, knowing that it's doing in the work. 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:48.879 And I just like that's a great way to show up for for this because you know, most people show up and they're not as strong as they want to be, or they you know wish they had more whatever. 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:52.480 Yeah, but you gotta you

gotta keep going and you can't be beating yourself up for it. 00:06:52.800 --> 00:07:00.079 Well, I'm a believer that attitudes is everything, and and in everything you do, you need the right attitude. 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:22.000 Uh so I didn't ever think about it, but I uh I sure uh have brought that into the strength training because uh what I realized now that as you said we're a year and a half into it, and I tell you this all the time during the sessions, is I'm pretty sure it's a it's it's a combination of mental and physical to get, you know, as you build up your you know, your physical strength. 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:26.319 Yeah, I had a trainer, uh Gary Mann, rest in peace. 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:37.839 Uh from when high school, all the athletes would go to him, and he lived in a different town, but we'd all drive over to Gary Mann's house, and his whole it was just like working out is a mental exercise done physically. 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:47.279 And his whole thing for kids was like you develop the mental uh toughness to push yourself in the gym, it's gonna show up in everything else in your life. 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:47.680 Yeah. 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:58.560 And I I I do think, I do see that, whatever, whatever age, the ability to kind of like know that it's hard, push through, believe that you can do it, and you know, come out the other side stronger for it. 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:00.079 So yeah, that's awesome. 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:18.000 So what's your advice to you know, maybe the the hardworking, potentially like uh workaholic type uh you know, tech person or or entrepreneur or anybody out there who's like working really hard, maybe hasn't prioritized uh strength training or fitness? 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:25.680 Well, I'll tell you, I I found uh being in tech, it can consume every waking moment. 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:30.639 Uh so you had to learn early on to make priority calls, basically. 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:34.399 So we have three kids, and so a lot of priority calls I made. 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:36.159 Yeah, I did work very hard. 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:42.720 I missed you know uh some events, but I tried to prioritize and be there uh for the events that matter. 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:45.519 And you have to you know really prioritize everything. 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:53.120 If you literally, if you want a doctor's appointment, you gotta literally carve out the time because the work will fill every moment. 00:08:53.679 --> 00:09:03.279 Uh and so to me, you know, when training, when I actually fell in that category where I said, this is something I want to do, it's something I need to do, guess what? 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:08.639 It got prioritized, and I schedule it in just like you would schedule in that doctor's appointment. 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:09.120 Yeah. 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:15.440 Yeah, there is something to like if you let work be all consuming, it will it will be all consuming. 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:16.559 It absolutely will. 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:25.120 And so you have to, and and I think that's I think some people feel like, well, you know, once I've gotten to a certain point, maybe I can do that. 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:32.799 But I I think if you it I have find that people that can figure out those moments, even in 20 to 30 minutes, it doesn't have to be an hour. 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:45.279 That's like the typical amount of time that trainers train people, but like 20 to 30 minutes on a Peloton or doing some strength training or going for a walk outside, all those things can be you know give you that mental health. 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:50.159 And and then of course you talk about showing up at doctor's appointments and all that kind of stuff. 00:09:50.399 --> 00:10:14.559 Now, um on a personal side, your one of your kids uh uh found out he it was type one diabetic at an early age, which probably uh you know impacted the way that you needed to make sure you know you could you you and Kathy you know were parents and and just talk about that and like how that kind of reprioritized your uh you know your life even with all the things going on uh with work. 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:16.559 Well, it was over 30 years ago. 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:22.080 Uh he's a much successful adult, kids of his own, married and kids of his own, so it was years ago. 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:27.039 But age six, our son uh was diagnosed with type one diabetes. 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:34.720 So those of your listeners who don't know, type one is the kind of diabetes that means your pancreas just doesn't make insulin anymore. 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:37.120 Genetically, you're genetically susceptible. 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:37.279 Yeah. 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:42.399 And if you get a trigger event, our son had a really bad uh just you know, an infection. 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:49.759 He had you know gotten a scrape or something, it turned into an infection, and that triggered the immune response in the body. 00:10:50.080 --> 00:11:00.559 And when you have that susceptibility to diabetes, the theory uh is that it can, you know, your your immune system goes a little haywire and ends up attacking the pancreas. 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.720 And like I said, then you make no diabetes. 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:12.240 You're completely dependent on injecting insulin every day, or you're or you know, you you you can't uh you you can't go on. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:16.000 Uh so that was a big shock uh to us as a family. 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:18.879 Uh and you know, our head was spinning. 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:25.360 We were uh here in uh Austin, Texas, and we met some other families whose kids had been diagnosed with type one. 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:26.559 That was very helpful. 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:29.759 But again, what do you do when challenges hit? 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:32.879 Like the way my wife and I think about it is there is no choice. 00:11:32.960 -->

00:11:35.519 Yeah you step up to whatever the challenge it is. 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:46.159 So we we stepped up, we learned all about it, uh, tried to create the best environment uh uh for our son because he had a uh age six, you know, that's daily injections. 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:46.399 Yeah. 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:49.440 But to accredit to our son, he has that same attitude. 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:50.240 He stepped up. 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:55.279 He said to Mom and Dad, I'm you're not giving me those injections, I'm doing it. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:55.519 Wow. 00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:05.200 So six-year-old giving himself his own injections, uh, but it was became the whole family pitched in and and you know, made sure that we had a supporting environment. 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:05.840 Yeah. 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:20.080 Well, and and I think it would be easy for uh uh parents to worry so much about their kid that they you know maybe avoid like sports or taking him hiking or boy scouts and a lot of the things that that that you were able to do with uh with your son. 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:35.840 Talk about just wanting to give your son the most, you know, opportunities, even you know, because I think well-intentioned, we can often oftentimes you know protect our kids from life or from the from the things that we worry about as as parents. 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:37.360 There is that temptation. 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:38.960 Uh we chose to not do that. 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:40.799 So uh credit to our son. 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:44.960 He was the one that wanted to, I mean, really strong willed, still want to do things. 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:46.559 He still wanted to go to summer camp. 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:46.799 Yeah. 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:49.200 And you're like, how are you gonna go to a summer camp? 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.080 I mean, we we've got this constant, you know, care. 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:53.600 You need this uh support. 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:55.360 Although he gave himself the shots. 00:12:55.440 --> 00:13:05.759 I mean, there's quite quite a bit to making sure that you stay on the regimen of keeping your blood sugar in control and testing your, you know, what is your blood sugar level and then adjusting the insulin. 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:15.440 This is before the days of now where it's uh more automated, where there's a you know continuous blood glucose monitoring and a pump that can deliver that in insulin. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:16.960 That wasn't available back then. 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:17.200 Yeah. 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.720 So but to his credit, he said, I I still want to do those things. 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:26.320 So again, uh, yeah, we did not fall into the you know, we uh to the overprotective camp. 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:27.519 We wanted to be supportive. 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:50.799 I will tell you, uh, we were very worried, but I think as a parent, you just gotta you've got to balance where how far

do you you know put in uh controls that uh might be best from your standpoint of um being able to control the situation, but how much do you let your kids grow up and give them responsibility and and take some risk? 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:51.279 Yeah. 00:13:51.440 --> 00:14:00.720 So we did take risk, but we started with uh a risk where they knew it was a camp uh that supported kids that had diabetes. 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.759 So went away, he was overnight, went away from home. 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:06.639 Uh and counselors that kind of knew how to support. 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:07.440 Exactly. 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:09.440 They knew how to how to deal with it. 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:09.919 Yeah. 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:14.159 But then uh after that he said the next summer, I don't want to go to diabetes camp. 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.399 He went to just a regular camp. 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:27.759 Yeah and it was stressful, and I wouldn't tell you there wasn't a number of times uh in actually in all of the camps, we ended up having to um take unplanned visits and things like that to take care of things. 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:33.759 Yeah, but that's something that uh Kathy and I were always willing to do uh to help him develop that independence. 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:39.360 And he's been uh he's been a uh very uh successful, landed on his feet. 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.919 So I think that kind of balance pays off. 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:43.840 Uh I would absolutely agree. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:15:01.600 You know, I think uh um just you know, having my own kid who's who's almost 12 and and just you know, you're you're constantly figuring out that balance of like support, care, but also like giving him the opportunity to go explore and make mistakes and and discover life. 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:11.840 Um using that same kind of umbrella concept of just like like support, but also giving people the opportunity to kind of like find their way? 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.000 How have you approached leadership? 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:22.720 Um, you don't you can talk about any of any of the step steps along the way where you were a leader in in some of these tech companies that or including AMD recently. 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:35.840 Um what what has been your philosophy of leadership, your mindset around like how to how to rise raise people up, how to give them, empower them to be successful so that the company can flourish? 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:51.679 Well, it you know, you started talking about family, and I think that's a a great way to to even talk about leadership in the workplace, because when we talked about uh we have three kids and we did the the same philosophy to all three kids, and I give my wife Kathy the credit. 00:15:51.840 --> 00:16:07.039 She she was always saying, Hey, our kids have the capabilities, we we need to make sure that they have uh every opportunity and that and and that we make sure that they know our expectations

is that they that they can step up to the capabilities they have. 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:17.840 Uh and so what that means is uh you set a you set expectations of what you think can be done, yeah, and you you you hold your kids accountable. 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:19.360 You expect them to be good kids. 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:23.679 It's not that they won't screw up when they do, you're gonna you're gonna counsel them, right? 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.399 You're gonna scold them or you're gonna do what you know, you're gonna have to do things. 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:28.000 Well, it's not the same at work. 00:16:28.240 --> 00:17:01.919 You know, no, you don't just you know scold your it's not like scolding kids, but the broader concept of setting act really clear expectations, holding people accountable, helping them, coaching them, being being uh you know a mentor, uh it's not uh again, it's not the same way as a family mentor, but it's a work mentor, and it and and conceptually it's the same of being a leader uh really means setting out goals, expectations, and and uh helping people achieve it. 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:10.079 And when you align that for the people that you're leading with where the you know it could be a startup, it could be a big company you're in, it doesn't matter. 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:22.240 Uh when you align that with what leads to business success, when you put those two together, you know, clear expectations, uh working really hard, but to a goal that leads to business success, good things happen. 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:22.880 Yeah. 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:30.400 I I have an old friend who I've trained off and on, and I just recently come back into uh training him, who is works at AMD. 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:37.519 He's in sales, and he's been there a long time, but he's you know, he's not somebody who's in the executive you know meetings and things like that. 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:44.640 And uh I mentioned that you and I train together, and he's like, Mark always remembers my name. 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:46.720 That was the first thing he said. 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:56.079 So when you talk about family, we talk about like you know, you're he's not a direct report to you, but you you know, that was the thing that really stuck with him. 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:07.599 And and just so maybe so a compliment to you, you may not know uh specifically who I'm talking about, but like uh Bill said, Yeah, every time I see him, he he remembers my name, he kind of gives me a moment. 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:31.519 And I think that's that's a special uh quality that I think in other some organizations doesn't exist, or that that that may be uh an opportunity for for leaders that is, you know, and then you've got you know thousands and thousands of people, so it that would be hard to do for everybody, but I think that was an that was fantastic to hear as I was preparing for this interview that that he that's what he remembers. 00:18:31.839

--> 00:18:36.000 Yeah, you know, it's I I thank you for sharing that, and and I appreciate hearing that. 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:38.240 And I wish I could remember everyone's name. 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:40.720 It's about what 40,000, 30,000. 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:47.119 33,000, but yeah, um and so no, I don't know everyone's name, but uh I I do try. 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:55.920 Uh and the reason I do is uh the way things get done is by people, and and and everyone's important. 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.640 I mean, it's just a team sport trying to do big things. 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:04.400 Like I'm you know, I mean in technology, the chip design business, we don't do anything without it being a team effort. 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:17.279 And I learned early on, I was uh at University of Texas, I was a resident assistant, meaning uh uh I needed I put myself uh through school with loans and things, so I needed the pay. 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:26.720 And so what happens is you're you're paid actually it covers your your uh room and board, but you're you're watch out for everybody else who don't want you to watch out for them. 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:28.799 Yeah, you're you're you're basically a manager. 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:32.000 So it I didn't realize it, but it was leadership training. 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:32.480 Yeah. 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:51.759 And uh and I I found and it was the first time I was at a group, and I and I found literally just little simple things like looking someone at the eye, like remembering their name, and you and having just some simple eye contact and and or playing back what they tell you. 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:56.000 Like you you play, you know, you when you meet someone, I always try and repeat the name back. 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.599 Yeah, because that helps me remember it. 00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:57.839 Yeah. 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:04.240 And then you have an in uh uh conversation, also play back some of what you heard, and it creates an engagement. 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:19.519 And uh I think it it uh it's important because that's how you build teamwork, because uh, particularly for someone like myself as a resident system or in the leadership roles I've had in industry, it leaves an impression, and the impression is true. 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:20.880 That leader cares. 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:21.200 Yeah. 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:22.960 And you have to care as a leader. 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.200 That's how you're gonna be the most effective. 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:25.599 Yeah. 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:26.880 But you have to show it. 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:40.000 Yeah, and I think I mean, just to take it back to fitness, like I one of the things I've learned in the 20 years of training is like people will work way harder if you care about them as people. 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:50.079 You know, like it doesn't matter how how many like certifications or like I have by my name, like you know, I can go in there

and bark orders and tell people love work harder. 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:54.640 And like, but if there's no relationship, there's there's no there's nothing to squeeze. 00:20:54.799 --> 00:21:19.759 There's no like there's nothing, you know, I can pull so much more from you now than I could when we first met because now I know your your capacity for work and and you know your own motivations, why you're doing this, and um, and utilize that because I because you know a lot of times when somebody's doing exercise that they don't necessarily like, the best thing I can do is tell them, you're doing we're doing this because you wanted this. 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:20.160 Right. 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:24.559 This is helping, you know, and they oh, oh, oh, oh, I know why I'm doing this now, and then they work harder. 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.279 Uh, but I think that's it always starts with relationship. 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:30.079 It always starts with caring about the person you're working for. 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:30.720 Yeah, yeah. 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:31.759 Makes all the difference. 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:32.799 Absolutely. 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:35.759 Well, take us back to your childhood. 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:55.839 I mean motivation thing, maybe any like some challenging moments that maybe galvanize your work ethic or your desire to kind of be a leader, or or maybe that you can look back and kind of connect the dots on uh you know, having perspective now, what what kind of galvanized who you are. 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.759 What do you think were a couple of things that happened in childhood that that have 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:13.519 Yeah, Barton, that's a good question. 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.039 And you don't look back. 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:25.519 So it's always a good question to say, well, look back. 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.759 You know, what uh what influenced you? 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:32.880 Um I have to say for me, uh first off, we moved around a lot growing up. 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:39.680 My dad, uh people think when they hear how many cities I lived growing up, they say your dad must have been in the in the services, right? 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:41.599 Uh because you moved around that much. 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.839 But actually what he was a scientist, but he was completing his education. 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:56.319 He's, you know, uh completed his uh graduate studies, uh he was in uh immunology, cancer research, and then you know, different universities doing postdoc and starting and teaching. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:03.519 He was teaching out at Berkeley, uh moved to a research hospital in uh in New York and then down to Texas. 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:05.759 So we moved around a lot growing up. 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:22.240 Uh so that uh I found uh teach as a kid when you're at the young ages uh to be uh really you have to get your conf self-confidence up because you're getting thrown into new situations,

new schools, you know nobody. 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:34.400 And so I didn't uh realize I was older, but I learned self-confidence and the ability to just meet people, just put yourself out there, yeah, meet new people, you know, yeah, uh figure out how to get comfortable in new situations. 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:36.640 So I think you know that was one. 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:42.480 I think two, uh uh just you know, needing to take responsibility early. 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:51.839 I had a paper route when I was 12 and uh you know, summer jobs from age 13 on and and uh interned uh when I was in uh university. 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.079 I was alternating semester work in school. 00:23:54.400 --> 00:24:06.319 So always strong work ethic, uh, you know, just helping to um you know bring the bring the necessary income in to do what I want to do and to to you know get the degree I wanted and things like that. 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:07.759 I think that was an influence. 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.839 And then uh just meeting you meet people along the way that you admire. 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:12.240 Yeah. 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:16.160 Um and and so I was always a sponge uh to learn from people. 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:17.440 Yeah, that's great. 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:58.960 Yeah, I think it's uh being that you you know raised a family and and you and Kathy were successful, but you know, at you know in in your jobs, like how did you help your kids find the you know, like not fall into like entitlement or you know, like oh well, you know, we kind of have a lot, or you know, like I just there's a there's you know, there's those maybe scenarios where like you know, you kind of got yourself up and and you know got through college, you know, working and this and that, but then your kids don't necessarily find that same work ethic and willpower and and and determination. 00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:02.559 What do you think you and Kathy were doing to kind of like instill that? 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:03.519 No, you're right. 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:04.079 It's very different. 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:11.119 Kathy, by the way, uh worked and like me contributed quite a bit to get herself through uh school. 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:22.000 So we both had that same background, but we were both uh electrical engineers, uh, landed good jobs, and so uh it was definitely a much better situation for our kids. 00:25:22.240 --> 00:26:03.759 But if you ask them what it was like growing up, uh they'll they'll probably tell you they were in a very financially constrained uh household because that was sort of the uh the the attitude was uh we were both, Kathy and I were both working hard, and the kids as they grew up, they had to help because we had uh uh our our oldest son and daughter, aged three years apart, then a seven-year gap in our youngest, and then Kathy and I were both working all the way through as they were growing up, uh less so for our uh youngest son, once Kathy retired, but uh for the for the entire school duration of our older two, uh we were that uh dual income working family, so the stress was always high. 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:04.000 Right. 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:06.319 Because we're just it just took everybody. 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:09.119 So nobody was home just chilling on the couch. 00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:13.519 So to be honest, there was no possibility there could be a sense of entitlement. 00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:15.680 Like everyone had to pull their own. 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:15.920 Yeah. 00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.480 Our our oldest son is a great chef. 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:20.480 Ask him why he's a great chef. 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:23.759 He's like he's making meals for the woman, yeah. 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:24.640 Exactly. 00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:27.359 He's like, hey, I guess I need to cook. 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:28.319 Yeah. 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:29.920 Yeah, that's interesting. 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:47.039 That's uh, you know, and that and also I think when kids feel connected to like they have responsibilities, they're part of the family being successful is what they do, versus like they come from school, they throw their bag down, they watch TV, the parents take care of everything. 00:26:47.119 --> 00:27:05.200 I think there's a the dyna we have to be careful in the dynamic of our of our you know, with kids is like making sure that they're doing chores, you know, make setting the table, cooking meals, or you know, whatever those things are that that sh give them a sense of value within the context of the family. 00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:05.920 Yeah. 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.640 Well, and our house is a tightly run ship. 00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:14.079 And and uh I will again that's where all the credit goes to Kathy. 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:25.839 I mean, she she's uh a very smart lady, uh very talented and engineering, and of course, uh uh you know she uh enjoyed that until the point where she retired. 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.839 She had other interests she wanted to pursue. 00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:33.680 But the home has always uh been well, you know, run very tightly by her, and and we all appreciate it. 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:34.240 Yeah. 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:37.920 What you know talked about going back to childhood. 00:27:38.079 --> 00:28:00.000 What what are some lessons maybe within the context of your professional career that you feel like have like taught you a lot that you know make you the leader you are today, kind of like maybe shape the way you know a mistake or just a uh disappointment, anything that might have like kind of galvanized who you are and why, you know, at at this point in your life things are going so well. 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:07.599 Well, I I think um I I I would say any good leader embraces mistake. 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:20.880 Uh the the worst thing you can ever do is uh think that a mistake uh or or f uh you know even a uh a failure, it uh

that you actually take it as a failure. 00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:37.359 They're frankly they're all tremendous learning experiences, and and successful leaders take each and every one of them as a learning experience and say, that's not gonna happen again, or I'm gonna be stronger because of that, or I could have done that differently, and here's what it is. 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:41.759 I'm gonna modify how I think about and act in those situations again. 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:47.440 Uh and look, I've you know, I've had uh many successes I'm proud of. 00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:56.079 You know, I probably have equal as many uh things that that I I realized I could have done that better, and I worked really hard to learn from. 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.079 And I just think that's critical. 00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:58.319 Yeah. 00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:08.480 If you ever let your ego get in the way and you just ever somehow think that you had a God-given right to be a successful leader, you're you're done. 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:10.480 I mean, like, then you stop learning. 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:10.720 Yeah. 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:23.359 And then you you're gonna become arrogant, and you're gonna get a sense of entitlement, or you're gonna get whatever that keeps you from being that uh constant learner and a humble person that's just trying to make a difference. 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:23.759 Yeah. 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:33.599 And I I I think uh I've I've seen leaders get get to where it got to their head a bit and it impacted their uh success as a leader. 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:34.240 Yeah. 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:36.720 And what is there anything that you've learned to do? 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.839 Like, let's say something c doesn't go the way you want it to go. 00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:46.000 Um, and like do you go how do you go back and evaluate like what happened and learn from it? 00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:49.279 Is there a is there kind of like a methodology you have around that? 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.839 Like a okay, hey, this didn't go well. 00:29:52.240 --> 00:30:00.160 I mean, you could do a SWOT analysis, or there's a lot, I'm sure, like terms that we could use that uh, but what what's your general practice with that? 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:04.079 Well, it starts with what I call just straight talk, being totally candid. 00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.839 So I've always tried to be as candid as I as I could. 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.319 Um I did that my years at IBM, I I got really good at that at Apple. 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:21.920 Apple was all about being candid and tried to uh instill that really transparent and candid communication with my engineering teams at uh AMD. 00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:36.880 The reason I say it starts there is as soon as you're just uh trying to be too nice to one another and and you don't call out that what really went wrong that you need to learn from because oh, I don't want to hurt Bart's feelings. 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:39.759 Let me not let me not put it out there. 00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.799 Uh well, how's that work, right? 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.759 And so I try I I try and practice what I preach. 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:52.160 I try and just uh right away, as things didn't go well, pull people together, put it on the table. 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:52.400 Yeah. 00:30:52.559 --> 00:31:08.720 Like, hey, this isn't going well, or what we just did didn't go well, look, look what happened, and and uh try and it just generate that uh spirit and culture of completely candid communications, what and and then it draws people out. 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:11.039 And then they're like, yeah, you're right, that didn't go well. 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:12.799 And then they're they're part of it. 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:17.039 And then you can go deeper and you can really get to the root of what went wrong. 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:20.000 Because it's real easy to put a superficial band-aid, right? 00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.720 Oh, yeah, yeah, it's because of this, it's because of that. 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:24.559 You put the band-aid over it, let's move on. 00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:28.559 Yeah, you put some blame on some external thing that you can't control. 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:31.759 That's actually typically what people it's a natural human response. 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:32.640 Oh, absolutely. 00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:34.640 Oh, look at what that other team did to us. 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:35.599 That's not our fault. 00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:36.079 Right. 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.880 And and a lot of people do that and move on. 00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:40.319 And you can't do it. 00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:45.920 You've got to uh some people call it the uh five questions, like, well, this didn't work. 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:46.400 Why? 00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:47.440 Well, because of that. 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:48.720 Okay, why'd that happen? 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.160 You've got to go down three, four, five levels deep. 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:57.200 Then you get to what really was the uh the the cause. 00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:00.799 Well, and in order to do that, you have to have the relationships. 00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:01.519 Yes, right. 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:03.519 So the trust, yeah. 00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:12.480 You have and and people have to believe that you're not just going to blame everybody, you know, like they have to see that you're taking responsibility for what you did and and that kind of thing. 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:17.759 And then and you can you could take that and say a family should probably do that too, right? 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:25.759 Like any any any group of people who are trying to be successful together, you know, be good to have that type of approach. 00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:26.319 Yeah. 00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:26.640 Yeah. 00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:33.599 No, once you yeah, when you don't have trust, um conversations are superficial,

right? 00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:35.839 Because no one's really putting it out there. 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.640 And and you're right, that that's beyond the work environment. 00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:41.119 That uh certainly applies to family as well. 00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:42.799 Yeah, good stuff. 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.680 Well, I I've we're coming to the towards the end of there. 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:51.440 I wanted to just uh give you opportunity uh going back to uh fitness, yes, strength training. 00:32:51.599 --> 00:33:07.359 What are a couple of things that you've just discovered about yourself and fitness or strength training that that are kind of like over the last year and a half, just like, oh wow, I'm like maybe it's something you like to do now or something you feel like confident that you've never done before? 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:08.960 What what what's that for you? 00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:16.079 Well, for me, I mean the the first thing was uh just getting comfortable with physical conditioning. 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:22.559 Like when I first started uh training with you, I didn't even know the uh uh the machines well. 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:31.440 And I had injured myself a couple times just going up to the gym and just saying, oh, let me just go do this lat pull or whatever and put too much weight on, straining my back. 00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:34.559 Uh so I I had a lot of trepidation, frankly. 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:38.720 Um and so one was just getting comfortable in the gym. 00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:47.920 And then two, uh, you know, for me was uh getting confident that I could make progress. 00:33:48.079 --> 00:34:02.880 Like the first few months really um was just um I didn't have I didn't have confidence where this was going because I I come out of a workout, I'm exhausted, and you don't see anything for it. 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:26.400 I mean, it took months before we the weights started going up and I started feeling better and yeah, and uh so And you were time you were kind of doing once a week because of your travel schedule, and so it almost like every time you got in the gym, it was like starting like you you didn't feel like the last workout made you that much stronger for the next workout because there was just too much time in between versus twice a week, which is your more of a your rhythm now. 00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:31.119 But we got to twice a week, but remember I had a shoulder injury, yes, right, and that set us back. 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.400 So uh but tell tell me tell the story of how what happened there. 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:52.880 Oh god, that was uh uh we were traveling, my wife and I in Europe, and we went to uh this uh gym and um it was completely different equipment because it wasn't you know, as there they were out of the country, and I thought it was like one of the machines you and I worked on together, but it's totally different. 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:57.199 So I set the weight like we

always do, yeah, and the whole motion was different. 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:03.920 Suddenly, you know, my arms were going out with with way more weight than should have been on uh my shoulder. 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:06.880 Maybe thinking it was like gonna be a press and it was more of a fly. 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:08.400 It went out on a fly. 00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:09.679 That's exactly what it was. 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.000 And I ended up tearing uh in and around my superspinatus in the shoulder. 00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:14.400 Yeah. 00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:17.760 And that took a while to uh to recover from it. 00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:19.119 Yeah. 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:19.599 Yeah. 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:27.840 And I I you know, one of the things that, you know, and if you've as a listener here, if you've ever injured your rotator cuff in any way, shape, or form, you know how long it takes. 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:47.760 You know, and one of the things that uh that Mark has uh done is continue to do PT style of warm-up things so that we're in by the time we get to bench press or or movements that would be impacted by by a shoulder uh issue, you know, it's warmed up, it's ready to go, and and there's no pain and there's no discomfort. 00:35:48.079 --> 00:36:20.079 Uh and that but that's that the one of the most one of the most uh common reasons why people start training and stop is exactly that, whether it's a shoulder injury, uh a low back, throwing the low back out, doing something they they you know they either they shouldn't do or just they were just unlucky in that moment, and then there's a they're they're so worried about getting injured again that they just never go back or they just you know that and then they kind of fall further behind because now they have this injury that they're worried about and they're not they're not strength training. 00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:44.960 And you know, that's that's one of the things that I've I'm really proud of you for is you know having that injury, you know, kind of oops, that was you know, I shouldn't have done that, but then you know, putting in the work, and you know, we had to take it all the way back to like very lightweight, move, you know, working around movements that did that hurt, and and but you've worked your way back, and and you know, we're uh this week we're about to use 50-pound dumbbells on incline bench press. 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:46.880 So um, so there you go. 00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:49.039 But I'll tell you, it it's all worth. 00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:52.320 I mean, so I didn't know what the outcome would be. 00:36:52.480 --> 00:37:03.039 I knew I I I knew I needed uh to get into a training regimen to to be more fit and and have more uh agility and and resiliency as is uh getting older here. 00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:08.320 Uh, but I tell you, uh Bart, the thing I'm most happy with is I just feel better. 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.119 Like you just, you know, just doing whatever. 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:19.280 Um I I just think I didn't realize um you and the other uh fit folks in the gym, you all knew that, but for me it was new. 00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:27.280 And I didn't realize uh uh how the part that strength could play in feeling better. 00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:28.400 Always cardio. 00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:41.679 I knew cardio, and it and and that was a whole part of my entire life, but I didn't really realize the uh the balance of just building your strength and how that can just make you more feel better and and more confident in every activity. 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:42.320 Yeah. 00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:54.079 Well, and you've you've just had a couple of moments of going skiing and feeling very stable or getting up on the water ski last weekend and just popping up just like you were 18 years old again. 00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:55.679 Yeah, well, that's fantastic. 00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:10.000 I mean, that it so much of quality of life between you know 60 and and 80, you know, is gonna be your ability to, you know, this chapter of your life be able to keep that strength and creep keep that health so that you can, you know, be active with your family. 00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:20.559 You've got a couple of grandkids now and and all those things that um you know you don't realize how important they are until they go away, until you can't do them anymore, and you're like, oh, I wish. 00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:27.840 You know, and so you know, more power to you for for taking this, you know, adventure on with me, and I really appreciate it. 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:37.840 But uh yeah, just uh can't wait to you know see what we can do in the next you know next few years with your with your strength and just giving you more confidence to keep doing all the things you want to do. 00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:39.519 Well, you've got a special skill. 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:46.639 I I talked to the other folks you train as well, and somehow you you uh push us all the way to the edge, but never too far. 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:50.400 Somehow you magically know exactly where that point is. 00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:51.519 I don't know how you do it. 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:54.480 There's a there's one thing that I always feel like is true. 00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:59.760 You don't want to be the trainer that's easy, and everyone tells, oh, he you should train with him, he's so easy. 00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:00.880 You don't want to be that trainer. 00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:08.159 So you want to train what you want to be the trainer that people say, oh he kicked my butt, or oh, I almost, but never that they get injured. 00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:15.519 So it's like you don't want you you can't be so harsh on them that they end up getting injured or don't want to train, but you don't want to, you want to you want to get results. 00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:18.960 So that's kind of the the the line you gotta walk as a as a trainer. 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:22.960 It's like a little bit mean, but but for the right reason, you know. 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:23.760 That's perfect. 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:25.840 Well, thank you so much, Mark, for your time. 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:32.000 Uh it's been an honor, and uh just best of luck with everything you're doing, and just thanks for being on the Mindset Forge podcast. 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:34.159 Yeah, thank you for having me, Barton.