บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ 706: Daniel Lubetzky - KIND Snacks Founder & Shark Tank Investor on Kindness, Grit, Values-Driven Leadership. and Building a Billion-Dollar

00:02:29.930 --> 00:02:34.530 mindset and one of abundance. Daniel shares a fascinating story 34 00:02:34.990 --> 00:02:38.650 about how he changed his mind about giving away product 35 00:02:38.710 --> 00:02:42.699 and how it changed everything for kind. Then he talks 36 00:02:42.740 --> 00:02:47.419 about the three must-have attributes in an entrepreneur he'll invest 37 00:02:47.460 --> 00:02:49.990 in on Shark Tank. And towards the end, he gets 38 00:02:50.210 --> 00:02:53.669 really jacked up talking about the four C's of a 39 00:02:53.810 --> 00:02:58.669 builder's mindset. So good. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy my 40 00:02:58.770 --> 00:03:03.939 conversation with Daniel Lubetsky. I saw that picture over your 41 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:06.680 right shoulder. I did a lot of studying leading up 42 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:09.039 to this conversation, and that happens to be a picture 43 00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:12.719 of your dad. And this just blew me away. I mean, 44 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:18.330 they're in your dad, his brother. And your grandfather, so 45 00:03:18.349 --> 00:03:22.960 your dad's dad, they're together, but they're in, is it 46 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:24.000 pronounced Dachau? 47 00:03:24.620 --> 00:03:25.120 Dachau. 48 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.699 Dachau, okay. And they're on a death march to be 49 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:36.009 pushed off of a cliff? I mean, I was floored. 50 00:03:36.389 --> 00:03:37.210 So what happened? 51 00:03:37.889 --> 00:03:40.930 Yeah, so as the allies, the Americans and their allies 52 00:03:40.969 --> 00:03:45.219 were advancing to liberate both the concentration camps and the 53 00:03:45.259 --> 00:03:49.800 whole continent of Europe, away from the Nazis and their partners, 54 00:03:50.699 --> 00:03:53.819 Hitler's people, him and his people came up with something 55 00:03:53.860 --> 00:03:56.780 called the final solution because they didn't have enough bullets 56 00:03:56.819 --> 00:03:58.479 to kill all the Jewish inmates they had in all 57 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:01.240 the concentration camps. They were going to walk them up 58 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:04.960 the cliffs and then push them off so they would 59 00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:09.300 all die from the mountains. And my dad at that time, 60 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:12.379 he was 12 and a half years old when he 61 00:04:12.419 --> 00:04:17.399 was entered into the concentration camp. My grandfather lied. and 62 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:20.120 said that he was born in 1927 instead of 1930 63 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:22.959 so that they would let him work. So they thought 64 00:04:22.980 --> 00:04:25.399 he was 15. But it's 12 and a half when 65 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:28.910 he got there, 15 and a half when this story happens. 66 00:04:29.529 --> 00:04:32.110 But he is six feet tall but weighs less than 67 00:04:32.110 --> 00:04:36.509 70 pounds. Like he's almost not alive. Like he is, 68 00:04:36.889 --> 00:04:40.000 you know, one of those people so

emaciated. And they 69 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:42.899 start walking them. He has no shoes. Part of what 70 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:46.769 my grandfather did is get him some, makeshift stuff, because 71 00:04:46.810 --> 00:04:49.649 other people died on the way. Forget about being thrown 72 00:04:49.689 --> 00:04:54.430 off the ravine. They died from exhaustion. It's winter conditions. 73 00:04:54.490 --> 00:04:58.829 People are exhausted. They have no coats or anything. And 74 00:05:00.379 --> 00:05:05.199 as they get towards the top, a very big snowstorm 75 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:10.079 takes over the place. And the Nazis keep marching because 76 00:05:10.100 --> 00:05:12.000 they figured out these guys are going to die in 77 00:05:12.019 --> 00:05:16.000 the storm. My father, my grandfather, my uncle hug and 78 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:20.089 say goodbye to each other. And the snow covers them, 79 00:05:20.110 --> 00:05:23.550 but it forms some sort of igloo type situation where 80 00:05:23.610 --> 00:05:28.069 they stay warm with each other's bodies. They pass out. 81 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:32.939 But hours later in the morning, they wake up, cover 82 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.800 out the snow, come out. Can you imagine like all 83 00:05:35.819 --> 00:05:40.279 these barely human, subhuman figures coming out of the snow 84 00:05:40.300 --> 00:05:42.949 and And they look and the Nazis are gone because 85 00:05:42.990 --> 00:05:46.730 they kept advancing because the allies were coming. So they 86 00:05:46.769 --> 00:05:49.480 were starving. They started walking towards a town to try 87 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:52.399 to get some food. They start walking on the roads 88 00:05:53.259 --> 00:05:57.259 and they see these tanks approaching and they're like, oh shit, 89 00:05:57.300 --> 00:06:00.319 there's the Nazis again. But it wasn't the Nazis. It 90 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:03.800 was the allies. It was the US allies. And what's 91 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:07.199 really funny about the story, Ryan, is they were all 92 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:13.879 Japanese Americans. It was the 442nd Battalion, 556th Regiment. I 93 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:17.259 hope I'm not messing that up. But Dr. Suito was 94 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:23.060 a captain. And these guys have never seen a Japanese person, 95 00:06:23.139 --> 00:06:25.620 an Asian person, because they live in the little town 96 00:06:25.660 --> 00:06:28.689 in Eastern Europe. So they don't understand what they're witnessing. 97 00:06:29.089 --> 00:06:33.029 They don't understand what's going on. Before they figure out 98 00:06:33.050 --> 00:06:36.790 these are American soldiers saving their lives. This is the 99 00:06:36.850 --> 00:06:41.980 most highly decorated battalion ever. in history, and it liberated Dachau, 100 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:45.990 it liberated a lot more. And my uncle, Larry, ends 101 00:06:46.069 --> 00:06:49.350 up getting attached to them. He's by then 19. After 102 00:06:49.689 --> 00:06:52.910 recuperating a little bit, he goes as a translator and 103 00:06:52.930 --> 00:06:57.439 becomes a lifelong friend of the core people that Dr. 104 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:00.180 Suhito and his friends were with. But 70 years later, 105 00:07:03.379 --> 00:07:05.040 I get a call from my friends like, oh, we're 106 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:07.189 sitting with this guy, Dr. Suito, and he shows a 107 00:07:07.250 --> 00:07:10.050 postcard of this guy named Larry Lubezki. You know Larry Lubezki? 108 00:07:10.069 --> 00:07:12.730 I'm like, that was my uncle. He had just passed away. 109 00:07:12.750 --> 00:07:17.029 And so 70 years later, I got reunited with Dr. Suito, 110 00:07:17.069 --> 00:07:19.389 who went on from being a captain in the U.S. 111 00:07:20.100 --> 00:07:24.180 Army to be a very, very highly respected doctor and 112 00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:27.569 scientist at Harvard. And I got to thank him. And 113 00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:31.670 then unfortunately, I sent him some kind bars, but I 114 00:07:31.850 --> 00:07:34.769 was preparing to go visit him and his wife. And unfortunately, 115 00:07:34.790 --> 00:07:37.269 he passed away as I was organizing the trip. So 116 00:07:37.290 --> 00:07:38.689 I only got to talk to him on the phone, 117 00:07:39.149 --> 00:07:43.259 but I gave a eulogy at his ceremony. And I 118 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.000 got to meet his kids and grandkids who I'm still 119 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:48.259 in touch with. And my son, Roman, who was named 120 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:50.560 after this Roman, came and thanked them also. 121 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:56.379 Oh my goodness. What does that story... do for you 122 00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:59.680 when it comes to like perspective in life or when 123 00:07:59.699 --> 00:08:03.040 we're feeling sorry for ourselves or complaining about things. And 124 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:06.379 then you think about that. They're hugging to stay warm 125 00:08:06.430 --> 00:08:10.120 and to say goodbye because they're about to die. And 126 00:08:10.189 --> 00:08:11.750 yet they persevere. 127 00:08:12.089 --> 00:08:12.389 And I. 128 00:08:14.029 --> 00:08:16.829 Just can't even imagine how that impacts you from a perspective. 129 00:08:17.509 --> 00:08:18.589 How does that make you feel? 130 00:08:18.610 --> 00:08:21.509 Yeah, no, I mean, a thousand things. The power of 131 00:08:21.610 --> 00:08:24.149 people to change other people's lives, because if it wasn't 132 00:08:24.170 --> 00:08:29.430 because of Dr. Suito, and those valiant Japanese American soldiers 133 00:08:29.870 --> 00:08:34.549 whose families were being interned in California. Our government eventually 134 00:08:34.610 --> 00:08:36.649 apologized for it, but we didn't know if we could 135 00:08:36.669 --> 00:08:40.149 trust the Japanese Americans. We were interning all these families 136 00:08:40.269 --> 00:08:43.000 and here are these valiant people and black Americans, right? 137 00:08:43.009 --> 00:08:46.299

Like the most highly decorated groups were black Americans and 138 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:51.379 Japanese Americans experiencing discrimination in their homes and things have 139 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:54.320 gotten so much better, but these were very, very heroic 140 00:08:55.059 --> 00:08:57.720 people And the power that all of us have to 141 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:00.179 make a difference and to save people's lives and to 142 00:09:00.220 --> 00:09:03.039 make people's lives better. And every single day, we're not 143 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:06.159 gonna pull off a Dr. Suito every day, but every 144 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:10.240 single day when you're walking down the supermarket and you 145 00:09:10.259 --> 00:09:12.899 look at a person's eyes and you see their humanity 146 00:09:12.950 --> 00:09:14.769 and you give them love with your eyes and just 147 00:09:14.830 --> 00:09:17.190 give them kindness. All you need to do is you 148 00:09:17.210 --> 00:09:20.350 give them kindness. You have no idea what that person's 149 00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:22.750 been going through and whether you're just going to give 150 00:09:22.769 --> 00:09:25.129 them a little of a nice sweet flavor or whether 151 00:09:25.149 --> 00:09:28.179 you're going to change their course of their lives. Last year, 152 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:29.960 or maybe it was two years ago, I was at 153 00:09:30.059 --> 00:09:35.639 a conference on fighting terrorism and hate. And some of 154 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.279 the people that were presenting were talking about how young 155 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:44.309 people that are susceptible to being recruited for horrible crimes 156 00:09:44.330 --> 00:09:47.149 are are going through difficult times and telling us stories 157 00:09:47.210 --> 00:09:51.080 about how that human connection changed the course of their 158 00:09:51.100 --> 00:09:54.279 lives and saved them. And the important work of fighting 159 00:09:54.870 --> 00:10:00.129 counterterrorism and anti-terrorism involves just our daily lives with just 160 00:10:00.149 --> 00:10:03.429 being kind people. Just that, if all of us do that, 161 00:10:04.250 --> 00:10:06.850 we're making a little bit of a headway to prevent 162 00:10:07.450 --> 00:10:08.570 the haters from recruiting. 163 00:10:09.549 --> 00:10:11.149 It seems like it impacted you in a big way 164 00:10:11.190 --> 00:10:15.960 in that you've designed your businesses to get people who, 165 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.950 I guess, were supposed to fight each other and not 166 00:10:21.009 --> 00:10:22.789 like each other, but you're going to get them to 167 00:10:23.029 --> 00:10:26.889 work together and call it a not only for profit, 168 00:10:26.950 --> 00:10:30.049 which I've never read before until reading about you. So 169 00:10:30.250 --> 00:10:34.600 this idea of bringing people from different backgrounds who normally 170 00:10:34.629 --> 00:10:38.019 would literally be fighting a war and killing each other saying, no, 171 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:41.399 we're not doing that. We're actually going to work together. 172 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:44.039 And my business is, they're going to be a reason 173 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:45.539 to get you to come together. I'd love to hear 174 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:46.799 more about that philosophy. 175 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:48.580 You're talking about peace works. 176 00:10:48.620 --> 00:10:48.860 Yeah. 177 00:10:49.299 --> 00:10:52.710 What's interesting is, I'm in Austin here, and these are 178 00:10:52.730 --> 00:10:55.529 the shelves of success. And in my other office, I 179 00:10:55.549 --> 00:10:57.649 have the shelves of failure. And I think that's a mistake. 180 00:10:57.690 --> 00:11:00.220 I'm going to update these shelves to add the PeaceWorks 181 00:11:00.250 --> 00:11:03.659 products because there's no such thing as failure or success. 182 00:11:03.700 --> 00:11:08.120 These are false simplifications because I would never have achieved 183 00:11:08.139 --> 00:11:10.480 what I achieved with Kind if I hadn't achieved what 184 00:11:10.500 --> 00:11:12.700 I achieved with PeaceWorks, which is a lot of lessons 185 00:11:12.740 --> 00:11:16.179 and a lot of mistakes from which I learned. When 186 00:11:16.259 --> 00:11:17.970 I was in college. 187 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:18.679 I. 188 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:23.179 Wrote my thesis on the influence of economics in resolving 189 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:26.210 the Arab-Israeli conflict. And the thesis was that if you 190 00:11:26.309 --> 00:11:30.610 use business to get neighbors working across lines of difference, 191 00:11:30.629 --> 00:11:34.649 you would shatter stereotypes, cement relationships, give them a stake 192 00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:37.700 and an interest in making money together, and then hopefully 193 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:41.259 help them discover each other's humanity. It became a very, 194 00:11:41.299 --> 00:11:46.000 very famous book. in medical circles, because if people were 195 00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:49.419 having difficulty with insomnia and couldn't fall asleep, you'd give 196 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:52.659 them this thick 268 page thesis and they'd fall asleep 197 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:56.720 right away because it was like the most theoretical, boring 198 00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:02.019 thing in the world. But from there, I ended up 199 00:12:02.059 --> 00:12:04.679 getting a fellowship after law school to actually turn it 200 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.269 into something. And so I started Peace Shorts where I 201 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:12.580 actually got Israelis, Jordanians, Egyptians, Turks, Palestinians to trade with 202 00:12:12.659 --> 00:12:16.220 one another to make the most iconic brand name I 203 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:19.879 ever came up with called Moshe Pupik and Ali Mishmumkin's 204 00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:23.299 world famous all natural gourmet foods. I still don't know 205 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:28.039 why it didn't work

out. But that taught me the 206 00:12:28.100 --> 00:12:30.379 lesson next time to keep it simple and name it kind, 207 00:12:30.419 --> 00:12:33.419 just four letters and keep it simple. But Moshe and 208 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:37.720 Ali's brought together people that to this day to their 209 00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:42.399 Children's children are friends and they have respect towards one another. 210 00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:44.960 And they, I just heard that the factory that we 211 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:48.379 helped get started, they just shut it down after, I 212 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:53.200 don't know, it's 93, like 30 plus years of them cooperating. 213 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:56.049 And for business reasons, they shut down that factory. But 214 00:12:56.509 --> 00:12:58.330 like that venture, there were so many other ventures I 215 00:12:58.370 --> 00:13:01.909 ended up starting in Sri Lanka and Indonesia and in 216 00:13:02.210 --> 00:13:04.980 South Africa and Chiapas, Mexico. to try to make a 217 00:13:05.059 --> 00:13:09.570 little small contribution to helping people work together. But the 218 00:13:09.629 --> 00:13:12.269 model was what you said, right? And using business to 219 00:13:12.330 --> 00:13:14.850 not just make money, but to, in a sustainable way, 220 00:13:16.309 --> 00:13:21.340 heal wounds, build relationships between neighbors in conflict regions, striving 221 00:13:21.379 --> 00:13:25.440 to coexist. And while kind is what I'm better known for, 222 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.259 PeaceWorks is what helped me get to kind. Because 10 223 00:13:30.259 --> 00:13:32.610 years of mistakes, and I'm telling you, Ryan, the amount 224 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:36.870 of stupid stuff I did while running Peaceworks, the amount 225 00:13:36.909 --> 00:13:41.659 of mistakes I made. But thank God that I learned 226 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:43.360 the lessons from them, because otherwise I would have not 227 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:44.519 been able to figure out kind. 228 00:13:45.269 --> 00:13:48.100 Were you going door to door making like 20 grand 229 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.559 a year? I mean, was this right? 24. 230 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:52.379 Don't cut my. Oh, sorry. Don't cut me another. 231 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:56.440 So you're making 24 grand a year and knocking on doors. 232 00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:58.480 I have a Stanford law education. 233 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:00.139 After going to Stanford law school. 234 00:14:00.259 --> 00:14:02.740 After going to Stanford law, I have offers from law 235 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:06.039 firms to pay me at that time, $ 86, 000 plus the 236 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:13.269 wine and dine you. And instead I paid myself $ 24, 000 237 00:14:10.830 --> 00:14:14.909 and barely could make ends meet. And my team also 238 00:14:15.149 --> 00:14:19.049 were making $ 24, 000. That's what I could afford. And when 239 00:14:19.090 --> 00:14:21.460 I started as a one-man operation, and even for many, many, 240

00:14:21.500 --> 00:14:24.480 many years, I was still doing this. I would start 241 00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:29.299 on 122nd and Broadway, because Broadway, I determined, was the 242 00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:34.580 most robust street in terms of amount of supermarkets. So 243 00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:36.659 it was the most efficient street for me to go 244 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:39.809 on in New York City, where the most supermarkets are. 245 00:14:40.409 --> 00:14:41.549 So I would start on 122nd and Broadway on the 246 00:14:43.690 --> 00:14:47.090 east side and start walking door by door, store by store, 247 00:14:47.350 --> 00:14:50.360 walking into the stores with my jars of Sondre Tomas Praté, 248 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.000 force feeding people like the poor buyers could not escape me. 249 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:57.059 I was like, corner them and stay there as long 250 00:14:57.080 --> 00:14:59.980 as it took to break a piece of bread, force 251 00:15:00.019 --> 00:15:03.580 feed them. And then they could not resist me. They 252 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:07.090 would place an order for $ 36. Then the next door, 253 00:15:07.110 --> 00:15:09.509 then the next door. And I was making, even in that, 254 00:15:09.549 --> 00:15:11.929 I don't know, It sounds like a story of resilience. 255 00:15:12.350 --> 00:15:16.190 It's a story of utter stupidity. Because I was not focused. 256 00:15:16.509 --> 00:15:19.279 And I would spend two hours trying to convince Mr. 257 00:15:19.379 --> 00:15:22.799 Kim in the corner store of 84th and Broadway to 258 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:25.080 try my product, where I should have walked two more 259 00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:27.240 blocks and go to the real supermarket rather than the 260 00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:30.200 tiny bodega and built a proper. So I didn't know 261 00:15:30.220 --> 00:15:32.990 what I was doing. But one of the lessons from 262 00:15:33.029 --> 00:15:35.889 that is grid is not enough. You also need width 263 00:15:36.149 --> 00:15:39.230 and fit. It's the three it's. Grit, wit, and fit. 264 00:15:39.309 --> 00:15:42.529 Too bad that it's coming from a Mexican-Jewish confused accent, 265 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:47.399 but grit, fit, and wit. Grit is that hard work ethic, right? 266 00:15:47.419 --> 00:15:49.320 Like you have to really push hard. You need to 267 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:53.480 really not give up because it is going to be hard. 268 00:15:53.620 --> 00:15:56.240 When you built Ryan, your business, I'm sure it was 269 00:15:56.279 --> 00:16:00.460 not automatically a success. You need to put in the work. 270 00:16:01.179 --> 00:16:02.580 But it's not enough to put in the work. You 271 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:05.059 also need to put the mind to figure out what 272 00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:08.620 you're doing. And so to add the strategic element and 273 00:16:08.659 --> 00:16:12.200 the width to be creative and outwit the competitors to 274 00:16:12.220 --> 00:16:14.700 be more creative than them. And then fit, there has 275 00:16:14.740 --> 00:16:18.320 to be a fit between the product or service and 276 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:19.600 what the consumers want. 277 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:22.320 Well, I bring up the door-to-door selling, even if it 278 00:16:22.460 --> 00:16:25.470 maybe wasn't the most wittiest way to go about it. 279 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:30.519 But I think dealing with rejection and the willingness to 280 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:35.659 keep going, perseverance, as you mentioned before, that kind of 281 00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:38.600 sets your foundation for the future of what you're going 282 00:16:38.620 --> 00:16:40.799 to do. I mean, your family history is a story 283 00:16:40.850 --> 00:16:45.490 of resilience and sticking together and the power of people, right? 284 00:16:45.570 --> 00:16:49.090 But you going out there and knocking on doors, again, 285 00:16:49.169 --> 00:16:51.549 even if it wasn't the wisest way to go about it. 286 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:54.379 I love what you asked and I love the insight. 287 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:58.500 I actually don't think enough about that. You're 100% correct, 288 00:16:58.519 --> 00:17:00.279 but it's a little bit more complex. Just to be 289 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:03.940 clear for anybody that's listening and starting their business, it's 290 00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:05.720 not like I'm like, yes, I'm going to keep going 291 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:10.140 no matter what. Very often, perhaps multiple times a day, 292 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.119 I ask myself whether I was doing the right thing 293 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:15.970 or was a total idiot. The amount of times that 294 00:17:16.009 --> 00:17:21.170 I cried on my own in my studio apartment, sat 295 00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:25.210 down and cried because I thought that I had made 296 00:17:25.230 --> 00:17:27.940 a mistake and that I was Wasting my life away. 297 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:33.740 The amount of times that I made mistakes and sometimes 298 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:35.960 those rejections that you're talking about, for sure they made 299 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.140 me who I am and stronger. And maybe I already 300 00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:40.450 had some of that inside me. And the fact that 301 00:17:40.470 --> 00:17:42.470 I was so passionate about what I was doing helped 302 00:17:42.490 --> 00:17:45.210 me give that thing. But some of these people that 303 00:17:45.230 --> 00:17:48.569 reject you are absolute assholes, right? Some of them, most 304 00:17:48.609 --> 00:17:53.970 of them, I think 95%, maybe 99% were actually respectful, kind, 305 00:17:54.029 --> 00:17:56.299 and gave me a hand. But some of them were 306 00:17:56.539 --> 00:18:00.069 so demeaning, so disrespectful. I still remember a couple of 307 00:18:00.089 --> 00:18:03.470 them were just so, like they created holes inside me 308 00:18:03.670 --> 00:18:07.190 of insecurity and of pain, you know, because I was 309 00:18:07.230 --> 00:18:10.289

doing this work of love to bring people together, leaving 310 00:18:10.349 --> 00:18:13.069 away my law school career to try to build peace 311 00:18:13.109 --> 00:18:16.190 in the Middle East once. So I'm going to spread 312 00:18:16.230 --> 00:18:18.309 it a time. And I believed in my mission. I 313 00:18:18.349 --> 00:18:20.650 believe what I was doing, what I was making a difference. 314 00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:24.460 And some people were so demeaning and such jerks. And 315 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:26.720 they take the wind out of you. And you need 316 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:30.400 to just understand that's par for the process, that you 317 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:32.880 need to be strong, love yourself from the inside, even 318 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:36.089 in spite of the rejections. And please do not assume 319 00:18:36.589 --> 00:18:40.150 that I was invincible and that I was not susceptible 320 00:18:40.230 --> 00:18:43.829 to feelings. And by the way, it's even more complex 321 00:18:44.609 --> 00:18:47.349 because some of their advice of these jerks was good. 322 00:18:48.109 --> 00:18:50.329 Think about that. Like there was one guy, I'm not 323 00:18:50.349 --> 00:18:53.630 going to say names. He thinks he's my buddy still 324 00:18:53.670 --> 00:18:56.630 today when he's, oh, I remember you so fondly. He 325 00:18:56.670 --> 00:18:59.549 was an asshole to me, but his advice was good. 326 00:19:00.369 --> 00:19:02.509 He was not nice the way he delivered the feedback. 327 00:19:03.049 --> 00:19:06.259 Once we were at a trade show and he'd stopped 328 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:10.980 me and said, stop, stop. You're just way too pushy. 329 00:19:11.740 --> 00:19:14.119 Give me space. Leave me alone. Get out of my life. 330 00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:18.940 You just need to give people space. And I was like, whoa, 331 00:19:18.980 --> 00:19:20.720 that was, can you imagine how that hits you when 332 00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:24.109 you're like a 25, 26 year old dreamy eyed person 333 00:19:24.130 --> 00:19:28.049 that's trying to make a difference? It broke me. I 334 00:19:28.569 --> 00:19:31.190 was broken. But then I reflect and I was like, 335 00:19:31.230 --> 00:19:34.150 you know what? He's right. You cannot just be push, push, push. 336 00:19:34.170 --> 00:19:37.410 You need to let people in. You need to let people, 337 00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:41.140 give people the space and be smarter. Because when you're 338 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:46.440 doing sales, when you're doing anything, The ultra passive person, 339 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:48.460 you don't want to be that. They're just watching the 340 00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:52.400 world happen. Don't lean in. You don't want to be that. 341 00:19:52.859 --> 00:19:55.279 But if all you do is lean in and push, push, push, 342 00:19:55.299 --> 00:19:59.589 then you're just annoying. So you need to find the 343 00:19:59.650 --> 00:20:02.910 balance and the magic and the creativity to be sufficiently 344 00:20:02.950 --> 00:20:06.230 persistent and loved for it. And that is very hard. 345 00:20:06.769 --> 00:20:07.849 That is not easy to do. 346 00:20:08.430 --> 00:20:11.390 You said the word magic. That comes from you as 347 00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:13.410 a kid in Mexico City. Is that right? You learned 348 00:20:13.430 --> 00:20:15.839 some magic. How did magic play a role in your 349 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:16.960 life and your upbringing? 350 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:20.359 Well, I told you my dad didn't really have a childhood. 351 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:22.299 When the war started, he was nine. When he was 352 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:24.140 sent to concentration, he was 12 and a half. He 353 00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:27.819 was sent before that to a ghetto and to horrible conditions. 354 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:31.609 So he only had a third grade education. And he 355 00:20:31.670 --> 00:20:34.529 was full of wonder. It was fascinating about him. We 356 00:20:34.890 --> 00:20:39.029 named the company Kind after him because he passed away 357 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:42.660 the year that we were about to launch Kind that we, 358 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:44.589 what was special about him is that in spite of 359 00:20:44.869 --> 00:20:47.210 all of the suffering that he went through, he was 360 00:20:47.309 --> 00:20:49.569 kind to everybody and he only saw kindness in people. 361 00:20:49.589 --> 00:20:52.309 He was a very special person and he loved magic 362 00:20:52.349 --> 00:20:54.529 and he always used to teach me little tricks. I 363 00:20:54.569 --> 00:20:56.490 used to ask him, dad, teach me, teach me, teach me. 364 00:20:56.529 --> 00:20:58.190 And eventually he taught me a couple of things here 365 00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:00.990 and there and a little more. And so that was 366 00:21:01.029 --> 00:21:04.440 a language he and I used. That was our shared hobby. 367 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.259 And so we would go to magic conferences and watch 368 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.569 magic shows and then He would buy me a book 369 00:21:09.609 --> 00:21:13.589 and then another book about magic. Ever since I was 370 00:21:13.950 --> 00:21:17.210 eight years old, started doing magic shows and magic tricks. 371 00:21:17.250 --> 00:21:19.150 And till today, it's a big hobby of mine. 372 00:21:19.630 --> 00:21:21.390 Is it one of the few things that you get really, 373 00:21:21.430 --> 00:21:23.829 really prepared for? Did I hear that right? What's this 374 00:21:23.950 --> 00:21:24.650 all about? Really? 375 00:21:24.809 --> 00:21:28.470 You prepared, right? And that's impressive. I love when, you know, 376 00:21:28.970 --> 00:21:31.450 as you know, I'm about to launch Build or Break. 377 00:21:31.710 --> 00:21:36.000 So I'm entering your space of conversations and you have 378 00:21:36.059 --> 00:21:39.420 a really magical way. Build or Break is... a show 379 00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:41.920 where I'm taking all of my lessons and the lessons 380 00:21:42.079

--> 00:21:45.759 of the most extraordinary builders out there. Some of the 381 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:49.660 most amazing people. I just did one with Matthew McConaughey. 382 00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:53.049 It was magical. I did Kevin O'Leary. Kevin O'Leary cried 383 00:21:53.089 --> 00:21:55.490 like you've never seen them cry before. Like he opened 384 00:21:55.589 --> 00:21:58.490 up and shared some introspective lessons. And the show is 385 00:21:58.529 --> 00:22:01.890 called Build or Break because it's talking about those difficult 386 00:22:01.930 --> 00:22:04.650 moments that could have broken you, but built you instead 387 00:22:04.670 --> 00:22:07.799 of who you are. But what I've learned in my, 388 00:22:07.819 --> 00:22:11.279 I've done, you've done 700 interviews. I've done 30 so far. 389 00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:14.799 What I've learned is what you do, prepare, but listen. 390 00:22:15.099 --> 00:22:17.539 And you do that beautifully. The way you are, you 391 00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:19.769 have a lot of background, but you're listening to the 392 00:22:20.569 --> 00:22:22.750 guest and then connecting to where they are. So I 393 00:22:22.910 --> 00:22:25.589 really like your style. I have to learn more of 394 00:22:25.609 --> 00:22:29.160 your tricks, but yeah. I used to do magic shows 395 00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:31.819 for my entire team. We had like a team of 396 00:22:31.819 --> 00:22:34.019 500 or maybe a hundred of them were at a 397 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:36.019 trade show and we would have a dinner and I 398 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:38.130 would prepare a mentalism routine and I didn't want to 399 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:39.990 screw it up. So I would really work at it. 400 00:22:41.049 --> 00:22:43.630 I've realized I prepare for anything that I'm not prepared for. 401 00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:47.130 I love winging it. It's just my personality, my style. 402 00:22:47.369 --> 00:22:50.410 I love winging it. I hate having to prepare, but 403 00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:52.960 I am disciplined enough that if there's something I don't know, 404 00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:55.740 I will put in the work today, tomorrow, and the 405 00:22:55.779 --> 00:22:58.440 day after. That's my Personally, I want to deliver the 406 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.509 best I can deliver. So, for example, for Build or Break, 407 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.609 it's been so much growth for me because it's hard. 408 00:23:05.650 --> 00:23:09.069 Because as you can tell, I love just talking. And 409 00:23:09.089 --> 00:23:12.490 you ask me, you're the job of Ryan. To you 410 00:23:12.529 --> 00:23:16.190 guys might seem, oh, whatever. This is Daniel's show. It 411 00:23:16.250 --> 00:23:19.390 is so hard to do what Ryan does. It seems simple. 412 00:23:20.309 --> 00:23:22.750 But after every one of my interviews, I need an 413 00:23:22.789 --> 00:23:28.039 hour to just decompress because I'm actively listening. And actively 414 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:32.569 listening takes a lot of energy. You're listening for the cues. 415 00:23:33.069 --> 00:23:35.390 Stephen Bartlett gave me this advice, which we talk about 416 00:23:35.529 --> 00:23:37.849 on the show, about how do you listen? How do 417 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:40.769 you interview? So every one of the Build or Break interviews, 418 00:23:40.829 --> 00:23:42.890 I go deep into the area of excellence of any 419 00:23:42.950 --> 00:23:47.069 particular person. We learn from their toolkit. So how do 420 00:23:47.089 --> 00:23:49.529 you become an active listener? How do you become creative? 421 00:23:49.569 --> 00:23:51.170 How do you become the best actor? How do you 422 00:23:51.210 --> 00:23:53.849 become the best entrepreneur? It's just, if I had to 423 00:23:53.990 --> 00:23:56.900 recommend anything for my kids to hear, It'd be the 424 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.200 Randhawk show and then the Build or Break podcast. 425 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:04.549 That's awesome. I think you could probably, you know how 426 00:24:04.569 --> 00:24:08.710 this feels. It's really cool to be able to do 427 00:24:08.750 --> 00:24:12.089 the thing that provides for your family and it happens 428 00:24:12.190 --> 00:24:14.890 to be your favorite thing to do. So I was 429 00:24:14.930 --> 00:24:19.210 talking about the concentric circles of life and when there's overlap, yeah, man, 430 00:24:19.250 --> 00:24:20.779 it makes this really, really fun. So it's neat. 431 00:24:20.779 --> 00:24:20.839 100%, 100%. 432 00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:22.460 I was talking to my son recently. 433 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:27.640 A few days ago and he's started his own business 434 00:24:27.700 --> 00:24:30.500 at that. What I love about this is, this is 435 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:33.940 my hobby. Like I enjoy every minute of it in 436 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:36.960 the Scott Galloway. Are you familiar with Scott? 437 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:38.180 Yeah. I've had him on a few times. 438 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.119 So he has this thing where he talks about it. 439 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:45.559 If you're pursuing your passion, that's probably some rich person's advice, 440 00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:49.200 but no, the whole point is, and Scott is a 441 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:51.859 very dear friend of mine, but my point is If 442 00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:55.160 you enjoy what you're doing, you're so much more likely 443 00:24:55.180 --> 00:24:57.700 to kick ass at it and to do well with it. 444 00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:01.849 And also, you're already winning, like you, because you're doing 445 00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:04.069 something that every morning you get up and you're doing 446 00:25:04.089 --> 00:25:09.529 something that's satisfying. Find something that gives you energy, purpose, 447 00:25:09.549 --> 00:25:12.450 meaning that's your hobby. You know what the danger is 448 00:25:12.470 --> 00:25:12.789 with that? 449 00:25:13.210 --> 00:25:13.450 What? 450 00:25:14.210 --> 00:25:16.690 The thing you overwork.

Like when I was building Peaceworks 451 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:19.440 and Kind, you just do so much for it because 452 00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:22.359 you love it so much. So you need to... Pays yourself. 453 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:24.700 Well, you're right. You get a few extra hours on 454 00:25:24.759 --> 00:25:27.799 a Sunday afternoon. Maybe your kids are taking a nap 455 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:30.000 or whatever. You're like, I'm going to go to work. 456 00:25:30.259 --> 00:25:31.980 But it's not because I feel like I have to. 457 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:35.299 It's because I legitimately want to do that more than 458 00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:36.140 anything else. 459 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:37.839 Other than being with your kids. 460 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.029 Well, yeah. So they're taking a nap or something, you know? 461 00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:44.329 Other than your kids? Ages 19, 18, 17, and 11. 462 00:25:44.329 --> 00:25:48.430 So you have four like me. Five, actually. There's twins 463 00:25:48.490 --> 00:25:48.789 in there. 464 00:25:49.130 --> 00:25:51.170 Well, I have twins too, but total four. 465 00:25:51.529 --> 00:25:53.369 Yeah, I know. It's awesome. 466 00:25:53.769 --> 00:25:56.549 But there's a lot of craft in learning the art 467 00:25:56.589 --> 00:25:58.509 of listening and interviewing. It's very hard. 468 00:25:58.950 --> 00:26:01.759 I'm glad you said that because I think the skill, 469 00:26:01.910 --> 00:26:05.220 which it is a skill, of being a good active 470 00:26:05.299 --> 00:26:08.920 listener is something we all can get better at. It 471 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:12.759 takes repetitions. You've got 30 of them formally now recording 472 00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:15.980 and more coming and obviously the rest of your life too. 473 00:26:16.829 --> 00:26:19.990 But how has that impacted you as a communicator, as 474 00:26:20.059 --> 00:26:24.680 a leader, as a dad, actively building and intentionally building 475 00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:26.279 the skill of being an active listener? 476 00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:30.380 Yeah, this is one of my greatest opportunities. I talk 477 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.119 in Build or Break, and the common theme that I 478 00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:38.980 detect from all of these most extraordinary people, like on 479 00:26:39.019 --> 00:26:42.410 Build or Break, we're interviewing incredible people who have accomplished 480 00:26:42.430 --> 00:26:44.490 so much. The lead singer of Empire of the Song, 481 00:26:44.529 --> 00:26:48.190 Luke Steele, Jose Andres, a humanitarian, a ton of incredible 482 00:26:48.230 --> 00:26:51.490 entrepreneurs that built from nothing and fell and fell. Chris 483 00:26:51.549 --> 00:26:53.470 Paul from, oh my God, I'm going to get in 484 00:26:53.509 --> 00:26:56.269 trouble because I'm starting to share names that have not 485 00:26:56.309 --> 00:26:59.269 been publicly disclosed. Okay, now you really have an exclusive run. 486 00:27:00.130 --> 00:27:03.119 But we

have 30 incredible people so far and more coming. 487 00:27:03.950 --> 00:27:06.579 And the common theme that I notice about this is 488 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.539 people put in the work and then have a positive 489 00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:15.200 attitude to make the best of it. And so for me, listening... 490 00:27:15.789 --> 00:27:18.210 I have to acknowledge that it's not my greatest strength, 491 00:27:18.609 --> 00:27:20.210 and then I have to lean in to try to 492 00:27:20.250 --> 00:27:23.230 get better at it. And that's the sign of people 493 00:27:23.250 --> 00:27:26.829 that have achieved a lot is being introspective, understanding what's 494 00:27:26.869 --> 00:27:29.250 not working, and then putting in the work to make 495 00:27:29.289 --> 00:27:31.670 it a little bit better. And listening has helped me 496 00:27:31.710 --> 00:27:34.960 with my children. I'm not perfect still. I have way 497 00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:39.079 more work to be done. But I have become better 498 00:27:39.579 --> 00:27:42.809 at the dinner table. With my team, my team might 499 00:27:42.910 --> 00:27:44.509 complain that I'm still not there. 500 00:27:44.890 --> 00:27:46.609 What do you mean by getting better at the dinner table? 501 00:27:46.950 --> 00:27:51.519 Asking better questions, asking follow-up questions, listening, all of the above. 502 00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:52.000 What do you mean? 503 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:57.720 My personality is that of someone that always wants to 504 00:27:57.779 --> 00:28:00.480 be a protagonist. I want to be part of what's 505 00:28:00.500 --> 00:28:03.980 going on. I got spoiled by founding kind from a 506 00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:07.779 one-person operation where I was alone in the windowless basement 507 00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:10.890 of my building and to an entity that had hundreds 508 00:28:10.930 --> 00:28:14.349 and hundreds of team members full of joy, like hanging 509 00:28:14.390 --> 00:28:16.490 by my words for the most part, not all of them, 510 00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.160 but plenty of them. And so I get spoiled by 511 00:28:19.220 --> 00:28:21.980 wanting that. And my kids, guess what? They want to 512 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.240 talk about their football practice and they're talking to each 513 00:28:25.339 --> 00:28:29.160 other and I'm just observing and I would like to 514 00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:31.390 be part of the conversation. And so all of a 515 00:28:31.430 --> 00:28:35.190 sudden I'm learning the skill to listen and to gain 516 00:28:35.230 --> 00:28:37.289 more knowledge and to be a little bit more patient 517 00:28:37.369 --> 00:28:40.029 and to then know how to ask questions. And be 518 00:28:40.130 --> 00:28:43.950 part of that without having to be that, without me 519 00:28:43.990 --> 00:28:47.019 being at the center of attention asking questions. My dad, 520 00:28:47.089 --> 00:28:50.039 going back to my dad, was the best interviewer because 521 00:28:50.059 --> 00:28:52.359 he was a coach. He always was there to listen. 522 00:28:53.339 --> 00:28:55.079 And when I was talking to him and I would 523 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.420 ask him a question, he would come back with another question. 524 00:28:58.099 --> 00:29:00.660 And he would just let me figure out the answers. 525 00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:04.619 And that's the deepest way for you to really, really evolve. 526 00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:07.380 is for you to ask yourself questions. So a great 527 00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:10.680 interviewer or a great coach or a great parent doesn't 528 00:29:10.940 --> 00:29:13.619 tell you what to do, which is the easier skill 529 00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:16.319 that comes easy for me. It helps you ask the 530 00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:18.319 questions you need to ask yourself for you to figure 531 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:18.920 out what to do. 532 00:29:20.059 --> 00:29:22.519 As you know, Daniel, I think parents can relate to this. 533 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:26.539 Kids are the greatest in the world at making sure 534 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.420 you always stay humble. No matter what you've accomplished, you 535 00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:34.430 create these incredible businesses and make billions of dollars, they 536 00:29:34.470 --> 00:29:34.930 don't care. 537 00:29:35.509 --> 00:29:37.849 And it's as it should be. It's not just that 538 00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:40.869 they don't care, it is one of the most valuable 539 00:29:42.009 --> 00:29:46.309 aspects because it keeps you grounded and it keeps you human. 540 00:29:46.349 --> 00:29:49.670 And you need someone to run yourself, whether your kids 541 00:29:49.710 --> 00:29:51.769 or your spouse or your partner or your team members 542 00:29:52.410 --> 00:29:55.339 that can call you out when you're starting to think that, 543 00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.099 is it too crude to say that your shit doesn't smell? 544 00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:02.799 I don't normally use that expression, but that. Yeah. 545 00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:05.480 No, you're right. You're right. We all need truth tellers 546 00:30:05.500 --> 00:30:08.200 in our lives. Kids are, I found to be some 547 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:11.279 of the best because they'll love you and be there 548 00:30:11.299 --> 00:30:13.539 with you. But I think if they stopped making fun 549 00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:15.380 of you or they put you on a pedestal, that 550 00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:19.289 would be a really weird day. I would not feel good. 551 00:30:19.369 --> 00:30:21.069 Your kids are there to keep you humble. Okay. I 552 00:30:21.069 --> 00:30:24.869 want to go back to actually 2002. You're training for 553 00:30:24.910 --> 00:30:27.569 the New York City Marathon and you're like looking around 554 00:30:27.609 --> 00:30:31.890 for like healthy kids. and great tasting snacks, and you're 555 00:30:32.029 --> 00:30:35.240 struggling to find them. What did you decide to do 556 00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:35.819 about that? 557 00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:38.799

Well, I tell that story and I tell a couple 558 00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:44.220 other stories as anchor moments in my recognition that there 559 00:30:44.289 --> 00:30:49.089 needed to be a healthy snack that was portable, wholesome, 560 00:30:49.130 --> 00:30:51.509 and convenient. Like that was the genesis of my idea 561 00:30:51.549 --> 00:30:55.470 that what eventually led me to kind, because like when 562 00:30:55.490 --> 00:30:58.009 you're running a marathon and you're being served up all 563 00:30:58.029 --> 00:31:02.309 these artificial gobbledygook stuff or stuff that doesn't look like food. 564 00:31:03.069 --> 00:31:05.289 Or in any occasion where you're in the airport or whatever, 565 00:31:05.349 --> 00:31:07.829 what a lot of people don't know is that in 566 00:31:07.849 --> 00:31:11.190 the 90s, late 90s, early 2000s, there was no healthy 567 00:31:11.230 --> 00:31:13.609 snack set that didn't exist in the stores and the 568 00:31:13.630 --> 00:31:17.859 airports and whatever. That did not exist. Your options were 569 00:31:17.890 --> 00:31:21.319 either stuff that looked like astronaut food and tasted like 570 00:31:21.460 --> 00:31:26.380 astronaut food or stuff that was completely indulgent and devoid 571 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.720 of or healthy calories or nutritionally dense calories. And so 572 00:31:30.940 --> 00:31:33.119 I was on the lookout for creating a product that 573 00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:36.839 could fit my needs when I was skipping lunch or dinner, 574 00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:39.579 a healthy snack that was wholesome and convenient that when 575 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:41.299 you ate it, you could feel good about it. And 576 00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:44.240 that was what led us to Lunch Kind. 577 00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.839 So there's so many different parts of the Kind story. One, 578 00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:51.269 I'm curious, you mentioned it about your dad, but naming 579 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:54.690 things is very important. We've already talked about this. How 580 00:31:54.710 --> 00:31:55.670 do you like, you know what? It's going to be 581 00:31:55.690 --> 00:31:57.910 called Kind. What's the story behind that? 582 00:31:58.369 --> 00:32:01.190 Well, the funny part is that when Sasha Herr and 583 00:32:01.289 --> 00:32:03.390 I were, she was my head of marketing at the 584 00:32:03.410 --> 00:32:05.599 time and we were riffing on what to call it. 585 00:32:06.309 --> 00:32:08.180 I need to find this page. I haven't found it, 586 00:32:08.180 --> 00:32:11.940 but we had like 80 ideas and every one of 587 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:15.799 the other ideas were stupid. And by the way, it's 588 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:18.569 not a foregone conclusion that we would have focused on 589 00:32:18.609 --> 00:32:22.650 the word kind. And we have words like 590 00:32:22.690 --> 00:32:29.700 591 00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:36.569 592 00:32:36.589 --> 00:32:42.470 593 00:32:42.509 --> 00:32:49.490

594 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.180 At that point, that's 595 00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:56.240 what we have stumbled upon, a fruit not bar, but 596 00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:58.740 kind deserve to be more. And we were very blessed. 597 00:32:58.819 --> 00:33:02.720 Thanks also to Sasha, to a lot of my self-reflection 598 00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:06.940 about losing my dad. And around that time, like we 599 00:33:06.980 --> 00:33:09.799 were looking for a word that could describe the three 600 00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:12.519 pillars of our brand, which turned out to be kind 601 00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:16.539 to your body, helpful, kind to your taste buds, delicious, 602 00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:20.319 and kind to the world, socially responsible, trying to make 603 00:33:20.380 --> 00:33:23.450 a small contribution to make this world a little bit kinder, 604 00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:27.900 one snack and one act at a time. That language 605 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.940 came much later, but that's what it became. But when 606 00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:33.539 my dad passed away, like it just became obvious that 607 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:38.009 the adjective that best described him, anytime you met anybody 608 00:33:38.049 --> 00:33:40.910 still today that was implicated in my dad, he was 609 00:33:41.029 --> 00:33:43.710 the kindest man. And he saw his mission in his 610 00:33:43.769 --> 00:33:47.109 life of bringing smiles to others. And all of a sudden, 611 00:33:47.650 --> 00:33:48.880 and this is the year 2003, where my dad died. 612 00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:56.339 And what we're thinking of packing up our bags, again, 613 00:33:56.380 --> 00:33:59.069 in terms of like not giving up, Ryan, or it 614 00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.619 wasn't like it was all a straight line to success, 615 00:34:01.660 --> 00:34:05.849 the opposite. We had just lost a huge account with 616 00:34:05.890 --> 00:34:10.170 our prior business because the predecessor product we're selling, we 617 00:34:10.190 --> 00:34:12.530 didn't control the manufacturing at the time and they had 618 00:34:12.570 --> 00:34:16.530 added sorbitol and sulfur dioxide. And so we had lost 619 00:34:16.769 --> 00:34:20.150 all of our business for that product line. And we 620 00:34:20.210 --> 00:34:24.659 were barely making ends meet. We had like six or 621 00:34:24.699 --> 00:34:28.199 seven team members, myself included. We sat around the table 622 00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:31.239 and we said, do we give this one last shot 623 00:34:32.019 --> 00:34:34.300 or we just pack our bags and I'll give you 624 00:34:34.340 --> 00:34:36.239 guys two, three months to go look for a job. 625 00:34:36.260 --> 00:34:37.920 I'll go do the same. I'll look for a job 626 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:41.829 and then we'll call it a day. And we voted. 627 00:34:41.949 --> 00:34:44.590 And part of me wanted to just be throwing the 628 00:34:44.630 --> 00:34:46.909 towel and just give up because it had been 10 629 00:34:46.909 -->

00:34:51.000 years of a very, very tough journey. And maybe part 630 00:34:51.019 --> 00:34:53.300 of me wanted to go on. Maybe I lied to 631 00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:56.059 myself that I seriously considered giving up. But we seriously 632 00:34:56.119 --> 00:34:59.639 took that vote. We literally took that vote. And all 633 00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:01.500 of us said, all right, let's give this one last shot. 634 00:35:02.659 --> 00:35:07.010 And then all of a sudden, from the greatest darkness 635 00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:11.329 of losing my best friend, my mentor, my dad, and 636 00:35:11.409 --> 00:35:15.750 just being so sad to lose him, And a business 637 00:35:15.789 --> 00:35:17.670 that barely can make some meat all of a sudden 638 00:35:17.710 --> 00:35:20.090 kind of gets launched and it just takes over. 639 00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:24.280 I love the idea of the story behind sampling. So 640 00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:28.420 your budget for sampling was like 800 bucks and you 641 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.980 viewed it as a cost and you got some advice 642 00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:34.039 to say, wait a second, this stuff is so good. 643 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.300 You just got to get people to taste it. Let's 644 00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:42.159 dramatically increase the sampling budget so that people can taste it. 645 00:35:42.170 --> 00:35:45.309 And once they do all of a sudden That feels 646 00:35:45.329 --> 00:35:48.949 like an inflection point. So the power of sampling, I'm 647 00:35:48.989 --> 00:35:50.519 curious about your thoughts on that. 648 00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:52.980 Yeah, but with a caveat, it needs to be the 649 00:35:53.019 --> 00:35:55.420 right mousetrap because if you start sampling the wrong thing, 650 00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:58.099 it won't work. And I talk about a lot of 651 00:35:58.139 --> 00:36:01.719 these tools on Build or Break, both advice that I 652 00:36:01.780 --> 00:36:04.320 have for my journey, but also that some of these 653 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.820 extraordinary people have. And we go practical. We talk a 654 00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:10.550 little bit of the strategic and spiritual and everything, but 655 00:36:11.150 --> 00:36:13.570 we provide very practical tools. And I talk a lot 656 00:36:13.590 --> 00:36:17.730 about sampling because it's misunderstood art form. And just to simplify, 657 00:36:18.710 --> 00:36:21.630 you first want to make sure that if somebody samples 658 00:36:21.670 --> 00:36:24.039 your product, they're going to enjoy it and recommend it 659 00:36:24.059 --> 00:36:27.159 to friends. Because if you're sampling something that only one 660 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:29.610 out of 10 people like... you're going to lose your 661 00:36:29.670 --> 00:36:32.929 shirt giving all these free samples. Only 10% are going 662 00:36:32.949 --> 00:36:35.469 to want to consider buying it again. You need to 663 00:36:35.510 --> 00:36:37.869 make sure that that number goes up to five out 664 00:36:37.889

--> 00:36:39.639 of 10, six out of 10, seven out of 10. 665 00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:42.000 In Kind's case, nine out of 10 people that tried 666 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:44.420 a Kind bar, it was like, oh my God, I 667 00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:47.739 want to buy more. And they were our ambassadors. They 668 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.619 were the ones saying, so it was a no brainer. 669 00:36:49.659 --> 00:36:54.619 But I had been mistrained by myself because during the 670 00:36:54.699 --> 00:36:56.460 Peace Rocks years, where as you know, Ryan, I have 671 00:36:57.059 --> 00:37:00.159 no money, everything was a cost center. And so I 672 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:02.920 had developed a scarcity mentality. And I talk about this 673 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.360 a lot on Build or Break, about the different tools 674 00:37:05.420 --> 00:37:07.659 on how to build a business and think about this stuff. 675 00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:11.920 But a scarcity mentality is definitely better than a glutinous mentality, right? 676 00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:15.309 Like an overspending mentality where you're just wasting money. A 677 00:37:15.369 --> 00:37:19.369 wasteful mentality, a wasteful money culture is just going to 678 00:37:19.429 --> 00:37:20.809 run you to the ground. You're going to run out 679 00:37:20.849 --> 00:37:23.610 of business. A scarcity mentality is going to help you 680 00:37:23.630 --> 00:37:25.590 preserve every dollar, but it's not going to fulfill your 681 00:37:25.630 --> 00:37:30.340 potential because everything is cost-centered to you, you're missing opportunities. 682 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.219 The right thing is in the middle, a resourceful culture 683 00:37:34.340 --> 00:37:37.550 and mindset where you're thinking like an owner and you're 684 00:37:37.590 --> 00:37:40.010 not wasting money. If you can do it for less, 685 00:37:40.110 --> 00:37:42.889 do it for less. But sometimes you want to invest 686 00:37:42.949 --> 00:37:45.559 in that growth. And so sampling was a good example of, 687 00:37:46.010 --> 00:37:48.239 I saw it as a cost center and I hadn't 688 00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:50.440 realized that it was an investment opportunity. And once we 689 00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:53.119 started sampling, we went from $ 800 in 2008 to $ 800, 000 690 00:37:53.019 --> 00:37:58.960 in 2009. to $ 20 million in free product within a 691 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:01.519 few years. And that made all the difference in our 692 00:38:01.539 --> 00:38:03.280 scaling to a multi-billion dollar company. 693 00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:07.929 You eventually decide to sell on different, I know, not 694 00:38:07.989 --> 00:38:10.769 all at once. So you become this guy who was 695 00:38:10.809 --> 00:38:15.610 making 24,000 bucks a year, knocking on doors to a billionaire. 696 00:38:15.730 --> 00:38:21.010 I mean, that's a dramatic change. How did that change you? 697 00:38:22.090 --> 00:38:27.679 So first of all, there's a difference between the liquidity event, 698 00:38:28.550 --> 00:38:32.480 and the paper money, right? So I, prior to selling Kind, 699 00:38:32.500 --> 00:38:34.960 I already had achieved a lot of success and I 700 00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:38.460 already have a lot of those resources. In my case, 701 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.820 it was true that I was much more conservative because 702 00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:46.599 in my nature, I also, I don't, still today, to 703 00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:50.199 be clear, Ryan, I do not throw away food, perhaps 704 00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:53.059 because of what my father went through, perhaps because of 705 00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:56.670 how they taught me, but I will not, waste. So 706 00:38:56.789 --> 00:38:58.800 I find it very important to teach my kids not 707 00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:00.780 to waste. If you want to be a good entrepreneur, 708 00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:03.980 I wrote an op-ed on the Washington Post. I encourage 709 00:39:04.219 --> 00:39:10.039 everybody to read it about frugality and resourcefulness because it's 710 00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:12.840 so dumb in this culture to think that, oh, you 711 00:39:12.860 --> 00:39:16.130 should be just spending and that if you're saving money, 712 00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:20.230 you're a loser. I just don't understand why people think that. 713 00:39:20.909 --> 00:39:23.110 You're not going to be able to build a healthy 714 00:39:23.150 --> 00:39:26.360 home or a healthy business. Yes, I do think that 715 00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:28.210 once you have a liquidity event and when you have 716 00:39:28.230 --> 00:39:31.050 the money in the bank, you start taking care of 717 00:39:31.090 --> 00:39:34.820 yourself a little bit more. And, you know, I didn't 718 00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:42.219 own an apartment or any housing till past 45 or something. 719 00:39:42.380 --> 00:39:44.539 Like I didn't own any real estate till I was 720 00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:48.869 in my mid forties or something. We didn't have a car. 721 00:39:48.929 --> 00:39:50.429 We had one and then we sold it and we 722 00:39:50.710 --> 00:39:51.989 for a while didn't have a car. Then we had 723 00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:57.840 one modest car. And still today we don't, in our style, 724 00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:59.639 by the way, we live very well. We have an 725 00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:04.940 incredible home and vacation home and we're ridiculously blessed and 726 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:08.440 we cannot complain. We take very good care of ourselves. 727 00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:12.469 I'd like to say that I live within my means. 728 00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:16.239 and that I always try to remember that you never 729 00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:20.639 know and never be wasteful. We certainly, in our decisions, 730 00:40:21.579 --> 00:40:26.710 I spend far more time and money on Camino Partners, 731 00:40:26.750 --> 00:40:30.230 which is our investment platform, our business, and on the 732 00:40:30.269 --> 00:40:33.309 Builders Movement and the Lubetzky Family

Foundation, which is what 733 00:40:33.329 --> 00:40:37.780 tries to give back, than I do on just pampering myself. 734 00:40:38.449 --> 00:40:40.840 I haven't yet bought a plane. I talk about it, 735 00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:43.900 I think about it, but I've resisted it. I like 736 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:49.769 flying commercial. Sometimes if the schedule's bad and the plane 737 00:40:49.809 --> 00:40:53.190 gets delayed, I'm like, oh, damn you, Daniel. Why are 738 00:40:53.210 --> 00:40:56.150 you trying to be such a dummy just by the plane? 739 00:40:56.550 --> 00:40:59.389 But as a general thing, I like to do things 740 00:40:59.469 --> 00:41:04.760 to stay connected. And I actually think airports are the 741 00:41:04.820 --> 00:41:07.840 places where you see so much kindness. Of course, sometimes 742 00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:10.940 you see jerks. If you're on social media, sometimes you 743 00:41:11.380 --> 00:41:14.130 get down these rabbit holes of, Everybody hating each other 744 00:41:14.190 --> 00:41:16.050 and all this political stuff where they're hating each other. 745 00:41:16.369 --> 00:41:18.070 And you go to the airport, people are kind to 746 00:41:18.090 --> 00:41:21.099 each other and nice. And I like, I like connecting 747 00:41:21.139 --> 00:41:21.619 with people. 748 00:41:22.340 --> 00:41:24.059 Well, one of the ways that you connect with people 749 00:41:24.099 --> 00:41:27.079 and that you help other people, and I've loved getting 750 00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:29.019 a chance to watch this is Shark Tank. It's one 751 00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:32.000 of my family's favorite shows. And to see like your 752 00:41:32.059 --> 00:41:35.239 style versus Mr. Wonderful, who you just talked about. What 753 00:41:35.260 --> 00:41:36.940 you could tell, like some of those people who are 754 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.519 the most passionate and sometimes come off as like a 755 00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:42.599 character also can be very emotional, which I love seeing 756 00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:47.050 that range. When you're on Shark Tank and you're thinking 757 00:41:47.110 --> 00:41:51.690 about investing in somebody, I use that phrase on purpose, 758 00:41:51.849 --> 00:41:55.670 investing in somebody. It feels to me like your style 759 00:41:55.750 --> 00:41:59.309 is more about the people and maybe less about the 760 00:41:59.429 --> 00:42:03.389 numbers and or the idea because you're like a people person. 761 00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:05.400 And I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, 762 00:42:05.420 --> 00:42:08.500 but you feel like a people-centered guy who cares for others, 763 00:42:08.860 --> 00:42:11.960 is kind, and wants to support someone who looks like 764 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.320 they have the attributes of like, let's go build this 765 00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.969 cool thing. Is that how you approach Shark Tank or 766 00:42:17.050 --> 00:42:18.750 what is your overall philosophy? 767 00:42:18.969 --> 00:42:22.489 Well, it's evolving. It's evolving. But yes, directionally, yes. But 768 00:42:22.510 --> 00:42:25.289 I want to give an ode of joy to Mr. 769 00:42:25.329 --> 00:42:29.670 Wonderful for a second. I think he's an underappreciated genius, 770 00:42:29.730 --> 00:42:32.469 and I'll tell you why. First of all, he's like 771 00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:35.739 the glue that makes this thing work because he's comfortable 772 00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:38.559 being the jerk and the tough guy and saying what 773 00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:41.139 needs to be said sometimes when others are uncomfortable. It's 774 00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:42.800 the hardest job and he does it in a very 775 00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:44.820 witty way. And yes, by the way, I do think 776 00:42:44.860 --> 00:42:47.329 it's the essence of his personality to say what needs 777 00:42:47.349 --> 00:42:50.510 to be said, but obviously he over-dramatizes it for TV 778 00:42:50.570 --> 00:42:53.670 and plays it up a little bit. But I believe 779 00:42:53.710 --> 00:42:57.809 he's one of the most loyal people and very bright 780 00:42:57.969 --> 00:43:00.599 and a man of the world and And there is 781 00:43:00.619 --> 00:43:03.280 a role for the Kevin O'Leary's of the world. We're 782 00:43:03.340 --> 00:43:05.869 just gonna tell it like it is. Because if all 783 00:43:05.909 --> 00:43:09.769 you do is just be nice, then you're not being kind. 784 00:43:10.250 --> 00:43:12.570 You understand the difference between being nice and being kind? 785 00:43:13.369 --> 00:43:18.750 If you're nice, you're polite and you're not saying uncomfortable things. 786 00:43:18.769 --> 00:43:22.210 But if you're kind, you're honest. If you're nice, it 787 00:43:22.250 --> 00:43:25.030 doesn't cost you. It's easy. You can be weak and nice, 788 00:43:25.429 --> 00:43:27.949 but to be kind, you need to be strong. There's 789 00:43:27.969 --> 00:43:31.130 a huge difference between being nice and not causing problems 790 00:43:31.190 --> 00:43:34.530 and being kind and solving problems. Between being nice and 791 00:43:34.550 --> 00:43:36.949 not bothering people, not saying things and being kind and 792 00:43:36.989 --> 00:43:40.389 giving honest feedback that's gonna help people grow. Between being 793 00:43:40.449 --> 00:43:42.789 nice and just standing on the side and being kind 794 00:43:42.829 --> 00:43:45.849 and stepping up against the bully and standing up to 795 00:43:45.989 --> 00:43:51.130 solve problems together. So kindness requires you being a protagonist. Now, 796 00:43:51.710 --> 00:43:53.949 I would not go so far as to say that 797 00:43:54.070 --> 00:43:58.110 Kevin is kind to all entrepreneurs, But he does an 798 00:43:58.150 --> 00:44:01.480 incredible service to say things that some of us, the 799 00:44:01.539 --> 00:44:03.880 rest of the sharks, might be thinking, like, oh, my God, 800 00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.820 this person has a really, really tough story. They went 801 00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:11.099

through all this adversity, but their business makes no sense. 802 00:44:11.860 --> 00:44:13.849 How the hell do we help them? By the way, 803 00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:18.230 I'd like to think of myself, Lori... is just the 804 00:44:18.269 --> 00:44:22.489 most nurturing person, right? She's always trying to help heal 805 00:44:22.530 --> 00:44:25.280 that person. And Kevin is just going to tell it 806 00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:27.280 like it is. What I'd like to think is I 807 00:44:27.420 --> 00:44:31.199 am trying to be nurturing while being kind with the feedback. 808 00:44:31.260 --> 00:44:35.460 Meaning I try to, in the way I provide the feedback, 809 00:44:36.260 --> 00:44:39.099 be nurturing, but I want to do it. I want 810 00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:41.280 to say what needs to be said. And I don't 811 00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:44.670 always have the strength that Kevin has. He has no compunction, 812 00:44:45.110 --> 00:44:48.369 but it sometimes takes strength to tell people something they 813 00:44:48.389 --> 00:44:51.550 might not want to hear. I've evolved a lot in season. 814 00:44:51.989 --> 00:44:55.590 I've been now eight seasons. This one that's coming is 815 00:44:55.610 --> 00:44:59.429 the eighth one. And it's starting, I think, September 29th. 816 00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:05.929 I think we're our first episode. An incredible roster of guests. whoa, whoa. 817 00:45:06.289 --> 00:45:07.769 I mean, I think this season is going to be 818 00:45:07.809 --> 00:45:10.829 one of the best. The producers did an insanely good 819 00:45:10.849 --> 00:45:13.860 job with the guest choice. In season 19, it was 820 00:45:14.619 --> 00:45:17.960 one note, kindness. And as I've evolved, I've tried to 821 00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.579 be a little bit more leaning into also being comfortable 822 00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:24.199 saying jokes and being witty and understanding that people are 823 00:45:24.260 --> 00:45:26.949 here also to entertain. I wanted to just always be 824 00:45:27.210 --> 00:45:30.949 providing advice, but I realized that you need to also 825 00:45:30.989 --> 00:45:33.139 engage people. And that's what the rest of the sharks 826 00:45:33.179 --> 00:45:36.380 do so well, right? They're so funny. They're so witty. 827 00:45:36.500 --> 00:45:39.099 By the way, people don't realize, you don't know who's 828 00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:41.639 going to come in front of you. Like the only 829 00:45:41.659 --> 00:45:44.159 thing that's different is that they record for 30 to 830 00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.289 45 minutes and then they edit it into an eight 831 00:45:46.349 --> 00:45:50.650 to 11 minute segment. But you get the essence. Like you, Leninger, 832 00:45:50.690 --> 00:45:53.630 who's the editor and executive producer, does a very good 833 00:45:53.650 --> 00:45:57.860 job at extracting the essence of the thing. And it really, 834 00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.340 it's very hard to do all of that, detect the patterns, 835 00:46:02.099 --> 00:46:05.130 be funny. And my fellow sharks are pretty good at it. 836 00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:08.579 What are some of the must-have attributes in a founder 837 00:46:09.059 --> 00:46:12.619 that they got to have this or these three things 838 00:46:13.099 --> 00:46:14.519 in order for you to say, yeah, I want to 839 00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:16.139 back them. I want to invest in them. I want 840 00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:17.179 to be partners with them. 841 00:46:18.099 --> 00:46:21.579 Integrity. If I don't trust the person, I'm not going 842 00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:22.260 to waste my life. 843 00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:25.300 No matter how much Can you sense that in that 844 00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:25.820 45-minute pitch? 845 00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:29.539 Yeah. The best one I did is Barbara. Barbara is 846 00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:34.670 like Dr. Freud. She has an essence of understanding human 847 00:46:34.710 --> 00:46:37.789 beings like nobody. She's got an incredible emotional intelligence. But yes, 848 00:46:38.329 --> 00:46:40.690 you can. You don't always get it right. You don't 849 00:46:40.809 --> 00:46:44.030 always get it perfect. But yeah, I think you can 850 00:46:44.329 --> 00:46:46.969 in between, by the way. And when you interview a person, Ryan, 851 00:46:47.289 --> 00:46:49.800 and when you meet people, it's not by saying, do 852 00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:52.179 you have integrity? Or like, show me an example of integrity. 853 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:55.599 It's by asking other questions and then seeing how they're 854 00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:57.920 performing that you get to the essence. But you have 855 00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.920 to dribble and look for the nuance. That's what you 856 00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:05.239 really need to be intently observing. Integrity is really important 857 00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:07.989 to me. And I want people that I would enjoy 858 00:47:08.090 --> 00:47:12.230 because in 99.9% of the cases, it's not going to 859 00:47:12.250 --> 00:47:14.449 be like this, that everything's growth. It's going to be 860 00:47:14.670 --> 00:47:17.610 up and down, up and down, like a roller coaster. 861 00:47:18.090 --> 00:47:20.159 And so... I want to work with people that when 862 00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:22.119 I need to be in the trenches helping them, I 863 00:47:22.179 --> 00:47:25.429 enjoy that they're people worth helping. So I do want 864 00:47:25.449 --> 00:47:28.710 to find people that are worth helping, that are good 865 00:47:28.769 --> 00:47:33.369 human beings, kind, respectful. And I want them to have 866 00:47:33.389 --> 00:47:36.989 a ton of passion. I want them to really, really 867 00:47:37.050 --> 00:47:39.989 believe in their business and to sense that they're going 868 00:47:40.010 --> 00:47:43.429 to outwork everybody else because that's what it's going to take. 869 00:47:44.070 --> 00:47:45.619 Do you have a favorite that you've invested in? 870 00:47:46.630 --> 00:47:50.170 A favorite product or company?

It's like asking me to 871 00:47:50.210 --> 00:47:51.469 choose among my children. 872 00:47:51.690 --> 00:47:53.150 I know. People ask me this all the time about 873 00:47:53.170 --> 00:47:55.110 my podcast. It's really hard, but I try to come 874 00:47:55.130 --> 00:47:55.449 up with answers. 875 00:47:55.469 --> 00:47:57.699 Well, not after today. You're going to have a favorite 876 00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:58.420 for sure, Ryan. 877 00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:00.179 Come on. We're here. Let's go. 878 00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:07.139 But the couple of home viewer, they're the salt of 879 00:48:07.179 --> 00:48:09.280 the earth. I love them. I don't know if you 880 00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:13.340 know this story. They invented this thing where this hummingbird 881 00:48:13.739 --> 00:48:18.170 dances next to you and drinks nectar from from flour 882 00:48:18.289 --> 00:48:22.650 that is by your helmet or whatever. And the whole 883 00:48:22.710 --> 00:48:26.610 community in Colorado got together to help them. It's like 884 00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:29.119 a town of, I don't know, 40, 50 people. They're 885 00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:32.960 all assembling them, doing them. It's changed their lives. They 886 00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:36.440 retired as a teacher and an electrician and started these things. 887 00:48:36.820 --> 00:48:40.170 What's beautiful about Shark Tank, it helps people pursue their 888 00:48:40.210 --> 00:48:44.099 lifelong dreams and be entrepreneurs and build their own futures. 889 00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:46.380 I love it. Dan, I got one more question before 890 00:48:46.420 --> 00:48:48.980 we run, man. Oh, this has been so cool. Let's 891 00:48:49.019 --> 00:48:53.889 fast forward a year from today and you are surrounded 892 00:48:53.949 --> 00:48:58.710 by the people you love and you are celebrating like crazy. 893 00:48:58.730 --> 00:49:01.869 You're popping bottles, spraying all over each other. What are 894 00:49:01.909 --> 00:49:02.789 you celebrating? 895 00:49:03.550 --> 00:49:07.579 Well, if you see this logo, it's the builder's movement. 896 00:49:08.670 --> 00:49:13.079 And I worry that, I don't want to over-dramatize things, 897 00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:15.679 but we are entering an era where a lot of 898 00:49:15.699 --> 00:49:19.949 the values that we take for granted are under threat, respected. 899 00:49:20.139 --> 00:49:23.119 one another, being kind to one another, democracy, rule of law. 900 00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.730 And everybody that's listening agrees, but they think it's happening 901 00:49:27.849 --> 00:49:29.429 on the other side. They don't see it happening to 902 00:49:29.469 --> 00:49:31.989 their side or to themselves. And we need to recognizing 903 00:49:32.070 --> 00:49:35.949 that both political parties and a big number of politicians 904 00:49:35.969 --> 00:49:40.210 are They use this to divide us. And they're no longer, 905 00:49:40.230 --> 00:49:43.190 the true north is not to solve problems, it's to 906 00:49:43.230 --> 00:49:46.090 get reelected. Most of them are not bad people. They're 907 00:49:46.110 --> 00:49:49.230 just responding to the incentives because on social media, if 908 00:49:49.269 --> 00:49:52.789 there's scandal, it travels farther. If you send that fundraising 909 00:49:52.889 --> 00:49:55.340 email with some screams, you're going to get more dollars. 910 00:49:55.449 --> 00:49:58.500 So we as people need to build a movement of 911 00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:04.139 builders that are committed to Hold all special interests, all politicians, 912 00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:07.179 all political parties accountable to follow the will of the people. 913 00:50:07.699 --> 00:50:12.199 Think about it. Over history, as the United States was built, 914 00:50:13.090 --> 00:50:16.389 every industry group has a trade group, a lobby, a 915 00:50:16.449 --> 00:50:20.760 group representing them. There's the napkin association and the food 916 00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:24.900 association and this association. Everybody has an association lobbying the politicians. 917 00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:27.820 And the only people that don't is the 80 to 918 00:50:27.820 --> 00:50:31.380 90% of citizens that agree on almost those issues. The 919 00:50:31.420 --> 00:50:34.460 most divisive issues that are used as wedges to try 920 00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:36.420 to get people to raise money and to get elected 921 00:50:36.460 --> 00:50:42.110 and to divide us. Immigration, voting rights, 90% of Americans 922 00:50:42.130 --> 00:50:46.670 support immigration. Why are the Democrats opposing it? But on 923 00:50:46.690 --> 00:50:50.090 the other side, Democrats support access. Why are the Republicans 924 00:50:50.150 --> 00:50:54.840 opposing it? There's things that are so basic, even on 925 00:50:54.880 --> 00:51:00.610 the most controversial issues like choice and life, 70 to 926 00:51:00.610 --> 00:51:02.210 80% of Americans can agree on 78% to 80% of 927 00:51:02.510 --> 00:51:07.599 the issues. And yet on gun rights and gun safety 928 00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:10.599 and all of these issues, we're paralyzed from making progress 929 00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:14.300 because it's us versus them, it's dehumanization, it's polarization. And 930 00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:17.840 you've seen how that can end. You've seen what can 931 00:51:17.909 --> 00:51:20.869 happen to people where there's so much dehumanization. And so 932 00:51:21.010 --> 00:51:24.550 Build or Break is not just about personal growth and 933 00:51:24.590 --> 00:51:27.650 professional growth for you to build the best business. Build 934 00:51:27.690 --> 00:51:30.329 or Break is also about building a community of builders 935 00:51:30.710 --> 00:51:33.809 that are going to build their businesses, build their families, 936 00:51:34.349 --> 00:51:39.010 and build a better world by being curious, compassionate, creative, 937 00:51:39.050 --> 00:51:43.170 and courageous. The four Cs of a builder's mindset are 938

00:51:43.409 --> 00:51:46.210 the essence that helped me build Kind into a multi-billion 939 00:51:46.230 --> 00:51:49.329 dollar company with almost no investment, and the essence of 940 00:51:49.349 --> 00:51:51.630 what's helped me build the one voice movement, the builders, 941 00:51:51.670 --> 00:51:53.710 and all that. And it's the essence of what it's 942 00:51:53.750 --> 00:51:57.070 going to take for us as Americans and human beings 943 00:51:57.130 --> 00:52:00.539 overall across the world to build a better chapter. So 944 00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:03.590 what it would look like is that builder's movement made 945 00:52:03.750 --> 00:52:08.630 progress and helped start turning the ship to hold politicians accountable. 946 00:52:08.690 --> 00:52:11.809 And politicians are now paying attention, understanding who's the sheriff 947 00:52:11.849 --> 00:52:15.699 in town and doing what's right for the 87% of 948 00:52:15.780 --> 00:52:19.099 Americans that want to solve problems together rather than tear 949 00:52:19.139 --> 00:52:21.300 each other apart. Actually, that number is probably even higher. 950 00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:24.679 Man, I want to be celebrating with you. I love 951 00:52:24.699 --> 00:52:27.989 that mission. I love that you think big. It's inspiring. 952 00:52:28.010 --> 00:52:29.750 It makes me want to follow. You know, that's what 953 00:52:29.809 --> 00:52:31.050 great leaders do. You can do it. 954 00:52:31.090 --> 00:52:34.030 Go to Builders Movement. Go to Daniel Lubetzky to build 955 00:52:34.090 --> 00:52:37.239 or break. Please follow our social media channels. Please join 956 00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:38.940 on the web and give us your email or others. 957 00:52:39.500 --> 00:52:41.659 We don't ask for money. We ask for you to 958 00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:45.079 become a better, the best person you can be. And 959 00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:47.760 it's going to give you tools to grow your business 960 00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:50.760 better and to help build this world. 961 00:52:51.420 --> 00:52:52.059 I will, man. 962 00:52:52.340 --> 00:52:54.650 For $ 19. 99, we'll also send you a Jinzu knife. 963 00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:00.360 See, you learn to sell in your early days, and 964 00:53:00.380 --> 00:53:01.940 it never leaves you, but you do it in a 965 00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:04.239 way that I love. I love the juice you bring 966 00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:07.400 to it and the enthusiasm. Again, it makes people truly. 967 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:09.679 You can't get behind a leader and follow a leader 968 00:53:09.739 --> 00:53:12.539 who isn't jacked up about the thing they're doing. And 969 00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:15.679 you can sense it and feel it, and I love that. So, hey, man, 970 00:53:15.699 --> 00:53:17.190 this was great. I love it, and I would love 971 00:53:17.210 --> 00:53:20.250 to continue our dialogue as we both progress. Next time 972 00:53:20.269 --> 00:53:21.590 I'm in Austin, I would love to see you. It'd 973 00:53:21.610 --> 00:53:22.329 be really, really cool. 974 00:53:22.949 --> 00:53:24.309 Thank you. It's a pleasure, and I hope to stay 975 00:53:24.329 --> 00:53:24.630 in touch. 976 00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:31.460 It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you 977 00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:33.860 for being a member of the end of the podcast club. 978 00:53:33.900 --> 00:53:37.300 If you are, send me a note, Ryan, at learningleader.com. 979 00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:39.530 Let me know what you learned from this great conversation 980 00:53:39.989 --> 00:53:44.289 with Daniel Lubetzky. A few takeaways from my notes. A 981 00:53:44.449 --> 00:53:50.190 scarcity mindset versus an abundance mindset. Viewing something as a 982 00:53:50.349 --> 00:53:53.309 cost instead of viewing it as an investment. This was 983 00:53:53.369 --> 00:53:57.949 Daniel's early mistake with KindVar's He only budgeted $ 800 a 984 00:53:57.989 --> 00:54:01.210 year in samples because he viewed it as a cost. 985 00:54:01.650 --> 00:54:05.920 Then he changed his mind and realized it was an investment. 986 00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:10.000 He upped it to $ 800, 000 per year in samples and 987 00:54:10.059 --> 00:54:15.940 eventually $ 20 million a year. Scarcity versus abundance. View it 988 00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:20.079 as an investment instead of a cost. Where are you 989 00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:23.239 doing this in your life and in your business? And 990 00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:28.960 then Daniels foresees of a builder's mindset, curiosity, compassion, creativity, 991 00:54:29.019 --> 00:54:32.699 and courage. That's how you both build a company and 992 00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:36.579 a movement. And then the difference between being nice or 993 00:54:36.619 --> 00:54:41.309 being kind. Being nice avoids conflict to protect feelings in 994 00:54:41.329 --> 00:54:44.530 the moment, the short term. Being kind is about being 995 00:54:44.630 --> 00:54:48.769 willing to risk the moment, telling the hard truth because 996 00:54:48.829 --> 00:54:53.119 you actually care about the person we want to to 997 00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:55.760 be kind more so than be nice. Once again, I 998 00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:58.579 want to say thank you so much for continuing to 999 00:54:58.599 --> 00:55:00.360 spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, 1000 00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:02.800 you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader 1001 00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:05.800 Show with Daniel Lubetzky. I think he'll help you become 1002 00:55:05.820 --> 00:55:08.179 a more effective leader because you continue to do that 1003 00:55:08.539 --> 00:55:11.619 and you also go to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, you subscribe 1004 00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:13.840 to the show, you're rated, hopefully five stars, and you 1005 00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:16.639 write a thoughtful review by doing all of that. You 1006 00:55:17.179 --> 00:55:19.539 are giving me the opportunity to do what I love 1007 00:55:19.579 --> 00:55:22.389 on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever 1008 00:55:22.550 --> 00:55:24.760 be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon. 1009 00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:25.300 Can't wait.