บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Finding the Ladder

--> 00:04:22.560 And then I stopped for quite some time, actually, after that. 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:27.439 And when I came to Phoenix, I fell in love with drag again. 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:35.040 And I knew that that was something that I wanted to do, and I've been able to grow as an artist with that. 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:42.560 And most recently I've gone back to painting and really putting myself out there as an artist in in many capacities. 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:43.199 Wow. 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:44.959 So you sound really talented. 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.759 You can paint, you're a drug artist. 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:49.519 I try, I try, yeah. 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:50.079 Yeah. 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:53.279 Do you feel like the two are connected in any way? 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:54.240 Absolutely. 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:59.839 So that job I had every summer, I was a face painter, it was one portion of my job. 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:17.519 So I was like, that directly translates sometimes in my makeup of I was just doing little cute face paints on kids, but now I get to dress myself up in drag and be this really cool king and use some of those techniques that I learned. 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:18.720 That is so cool. 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:20.800 What is your drag persona like? 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:23.839 I really love to mesh the extremes. 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:28.079 So I love being hyper masculine, but also super feminine. 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:38.000 Sometimes I wear lashes and nails, but I love neons, but also meshing it with like okay, leather and like dark elements. 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:43.519 I love spikes, anything with spikes, and I really love like cyberpunk elements of it. 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:45.120 Love cyberpunk. 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:46.240 That's so cool. 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:46.879 Yeah. 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:54.319 How has drag impacted your understanding of or perception of gender expansiveness? 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:57.759 Oh my gosh, it has transformed it, literally. 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:04.399 So when I first started drag, I was like, I knew that I wanted to do women's music. 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:09.759 That was like a challenging thing for the audience and like for my peers at that time. 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:13.120 Now it is broadly accepted, which I'm super thankful for. 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:20.560 So that was my first like little tiptoe into okay, you're a drag king, but you're doing women's music. 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:27.759 But then that morphed into, okay, well, now I want to wear nails, I want to do bright colors, I want to do things that I really enjoy. 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:33.279 And I love jewelry and all sorts of, again, like spikes are different elements of that. 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:39.360 And that really reflected in my day-to-day life of, okay, well, I'm that on stage. 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.279 Why can't I bring some of those elements in my daily life? 00:06:43.519

--> 00:06:46.399 What's wrong with me wearing makeup every so often? 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:51.199 And it really helped me understand that it is so expansive. 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.240 I'm not just a trans man, I'm a trans masculine person. 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:56.560 I don't really adhere to the binary. 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:02.560 Even my level of thinking as far as gender and gender expression really expanded. 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:10.480 A lot to do with my peers and colleagues in drag artistry, but in the way I got to express myself and how powerful I felt. 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:15.120 How do you feel like expressing yourself in such a visible and public way? 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:16.639 Like, how is that journey like? 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:18.720 It can be really scary sometimes. 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:19.279 Yeah. 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:23.360 Sometimes it's hard to check into like that persona almost. 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:30.079 Like I know that gray matter as a drag persona is so confident, but I just feel so good. 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.040 And I always remember that when I'm performing, and I love connecting with people. 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:40.399 Like you can see people light up when like when I go to a show, I love supporting shows. 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:52.480 So being able to be on the other side of that and like see somebody light up or see somebody really excited by your number, or just the music that I'm doing, that energy exchange is like super liberating, super fun. 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:53.759 That sounds beautiful. 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:55.040 Yeah, it's it's been great. 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:57.199 How did you create the name Gray Matter? 00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:57.680 Yeah. 00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:59.040 What's the story behind that? 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:10.399 Initially, it was more about challenging people because it's it's part of the brain where like deep thinking kind of happens, and I'm super introspective, all of that kind of stuff. 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:14.720 But now it's more transformed into challenging myself. 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:22.000 But it actually came from a song, and in the song it says, Upgrade your gray matter because one day it may matter. 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:22.959 I love that. 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:27.360 A friend of mine showed it to me like years and years ago. 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:32.000 Actually, when I was working still at the art company, we would ride in together. 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:32.879 He showed me that. 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.360 It was just some like obscure song he wanted to show me, and it always stuck with me. 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:38.240 So that's cool. 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:40.559 My my first drag name was Valentino. 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:48.080 So Valentino More like Rico Suave like vibes, but no, very different. 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:57.360 Can you talk about your experience with gender-affirming care? 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:02.879 So,

gender-affirming care as me seeking care has always been challenging. 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:08.720 Anything in the clinical space has always been really anxiety-inducing. 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:15.440 And I've been thankful enough to be able to find a provider that treats me so incredibly well. 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:29.679 But then on the other end of that, my drag actually helped me get into a nonprofit space where I was able to provide that care as far as like programming and support for gender expansive people. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:35.519 So it's been really nice as like somebody, okay, I'm super anxious when it comes to anything clinical. 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.759 And now I'm working at this clinic and able to provide that. 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:57.600 And much like with my drag, like seeing people light up in the clinical space of like I met this person, you know, at the very beginning stages of whether it was their physical transition or them just coming to realize that they're gender expansive. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:04.960 And oftentimes I was the first gender expansive person that they met, which was wild to me because I've had that experience. 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:28.639 But then seeing them week over week just getting more and more excited about feeling comfortable, whatever that meant to them, getting the things that they actually needed, which was so transformative of like, okay, maybe it was just like a friendly, you know, exchange, or maybe it was gender-affirming hormone therapy, or helping them navigate the name change process in Arizona. 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:44.159 When we kind of reformed the gender affirming program, then I was able to lead it and say, hey, we really need to remove as many barriers as possible because we know that housing and employment are like top two, right? 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:50.799 I know that so many people that I worked with wanted gender affirming care, but they're like, okay, well, I still need to pay for all of my bills. 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.320 And then on top of trying to get employment or even housing. 00:10:54.480 --> 00:11:05.919 So when we got to those levels of support services, it was like, we need a very, you know, very short intake process and limited a lot of those barriers. 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:08.000 That sounds incredibly important. 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:10.320 And it sounds like you built that program. 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:11.279 So that is so cool. 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:13.279 Yeah, I'm very proud of that. 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:15.519 So tell me more about the organization. 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:16.559 What is their name? 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:17.679 What do they do? 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:18.480 Yeah. 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.240 So I worked for then Southwest Center for about five years. 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.480 It's now Prisma Community Care. 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.840 What was like your biggest takeaway working for them? 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:47.200 Yeah, I think again, I I just grew as a person with them, being able to learn every single day about the own stigma that I had surrounding myself and like my sexual orientation, the way that I talked about sex and HIV and advocating for safer sex too. 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:53.759 Like I learned so much about that in that space when I already thought I had like a pretty comprehensive view and understanding. 00:11:54.000 --> 00:12:02.559 How does your identity as a prominent drag artist in the Phoenix community intersect with your advocacy and activism? 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:09.120 Yeah, it does in the way that I hold that responsibility really high. 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:18.799 I know that again, I'm a trusted person, or people can somebody recently said this to me, which I felt really good about, is that I know I'm safe with you. 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:21.120 And that's really all that I want. 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:35.519 But also understanding that when somebody comes to me with a question or needs something, then one I can be a listening ear, but also if I have a solution or if I have a resource or if I have something for them, that I'm able to give that. 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:35.919 Yeah. 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:37.039 Whatever that may be. 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:41.840 Or talk to other folks in whatever network to hopefully, you know, help somebody. 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:43.759 But I think just being there too. 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:51.120 But I I think understanding that I have a major responsibility and sticking true to that. 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:57.840 Do you feel like having that kind of platform automatically puts you in a position of advocacy? 00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.360 How do you how do you feel about that? 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:01.600 I don't know if that's true for everybody. 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:02.559 It definitely can be. 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:06.639 I think that everybody does have a platform, whether they use it or not. 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:17.519 But some people enter drag and they want they want to be more on the entertainment side, or they want to do their art and go home, and that's completely okay too. 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:22.159 I want whomever to thrive how they want. 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:36.320 For me, I felt a sense of fulfillment, and I felt honored because I feel like I wanted to do as much as I could for the community that helped save me in a way. 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:38.399 Like drag is like my therapy. 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:40.799 Drag helps me continue. 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:43.039 This community helps me continue. 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.320 So I want to give that to other people as much as possible. 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:51.840 And also I learned so much in this process that I want others to kind of grow to. 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:54.480 And that's not for everybody too. 00:13:54.720 --> 00:14:00.960 Because as an advocate, you're continuing to push push sometimes or be

as vulnerable as possible. 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:02.879 And that's not for everybody. 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:03.600 Yeah. 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:08.080 What parts of drag do you feel like are like feel therapeutic? 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:12.000 I think that connection, first and foremost, with people. 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:15.440 As a youth, I never really felt connected with other people. 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:28.000 I also always claim to be an introvert, which is so funny to me, because you'll see me out and about and smiling and talking to people and like on a stage, which is wild. 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:36.960 That I used to change in the bathroom for gym class. 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:42.799 Now I'm out and like on a stage, and now I'm here. 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:52.639 You know, we're on a podcast together, we're talking, and I'm out there on a stage, and being that kind of free and vulnerable is really, really nice. 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.919 Tell me about the first time that you did that. 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:57.679 How is that like? 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.759 Okay, so I've been sober for years now. 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.080 When I first did drag, it was in Michigan. 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:07.600 It was, I think, my 21st birthday, maybe. 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:12.320 And I did a show because I had always wanted to do drag. 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:18.559 And I did it, and I was I was very intoxicated. 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:20.879 And I think that helps. 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:22.639 That helps to the bravery, right? 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:25.600 Oh my goodness, it was a mess. 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:34.159 And then I did it a few times after that, and I noticed like every single time I needed to be very intoxicated, and I did not want to do that. 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:38.320 And also, I didn't really understand my gender identity at the time. 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:46.799 I just knew that okay, binding my chest felt really good, and looking, I don't know, some sense of a dude at the time felt really good. 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:47.360 Yeah. 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.600 I was like, okay, I like this a little too much. 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:51.840 Let's back off on this a little bit. 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:58.639 But when it yeah, so when I restarted in 2018 in Phoenix, it was like, yep, that was my time. 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:05.279 So you competed in Phoenix Pride in 2019 and won the title. 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:06.559 How was that like? 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.000 It was wild. 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:12.240 So I restarted in 2018, went right into pageantry. 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:16.799 I went to a different kind of pageantry system called EOI Entertainer of the Year. 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:19.360 I did not do well, but I learned a lot. 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:20.879 So I learned a lot. 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:22.799 I came back, competed. 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:24.720 Phoenix Pride is a community title. 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:28.240 It's focused on fundraising for the Phoenix Pride scholarship. 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:32.720 So it's like, okay, I had just really entered the drag scene here in Phoenix. 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.720 I knew I wanted to do this, and it was my first time, and I won. 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:37.919 And congrats. 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:39.840 Yeah, it was like wild. 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:48.399 Like I was so proud, and that really put me right into the, so to speak, like spotlight of like, okay, you just won. 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.919 You have to represent for a year, got to do all this fundraising. 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:56.240 And that's really what led me to nonprofit work. 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:57.919 So I got to be in the community. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:03.679 I was already kind of doing outreach in that way, and that led me to join that organization. 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:09.279 I was an outreach worker, and it's just kind of like gone up and up from there. 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:13.039 Just being able to, like, okay, I really enjoy this. 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:14.960 I loved my reign as Mr. 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:15.920 Phoenix Pride. 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:17.440 It was really liberating. 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:30.559 In, you know, the first little bits of my medical transition and as a proud trans masculine person, being there for my community, and then fundraising for scholarships. 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:36.480 I'm super proud of what I was able to do and what it kind of led me into doing. 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:38.240 That's awesome. 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:46.000 Tell me about the pageantry world. 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:50.319 It's really beautiful and like deep-rooted in the drag community. 00:17:50.480 --> 00:18:09.599 It's structured in a way of like, of course, you're getting judged or you getting critiqued, but that first entry to pageantry, I learned so much of how to be a professional, how to be on time, how to get ready fast, how to work alongside of people that you're competing against, how to lose gracefully. 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:10.319 That's rough. 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:20.319 I got seven out of nine, my first national competition, how to present on a very big stage, but also being able to connect with people all over the states. 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:24.480 That's what was the coolest part is I got to meet people from all over. 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:32.799 And even though, yeah, we're competing against each other, we still get to see, like, oh, deal with the same things I do, just in a different state. 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:40.240 Or here's this transmasculine person that I'm still connected with, you know, just because we competed back in 2018. 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:42.799 As far as categories, it's very similar. 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:50.079 Like for masculine folks, they might have like a swimwear or a suit, but then more feminine, you could have like a gown. 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:56.640 But

it's cool because it helps you like you have to do an interview or you have to do a question and answer. 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:04.240 So you either gain some skills or kind of exercise some of those skills on a national stage or a bigger stage. 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:05.519 That sounds really intense. 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:06.079 Yeah, yeah. 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:08.480 It can be lots of adrenaline off. 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:09.759 Yes, a lot. 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:11.039 Keep you going. 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.440 Was there any relief after it's over? 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.200 Just like, okay, I can relax, you know. 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.599 It's a lot of time, money, and energy. 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:18.640 So you're like, okay. 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:19.039 Yeah. 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:20.319 No matter the placement. 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:22.799 Do you get cash prizes by doing it? 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:24.720 Absolutely. 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:25.039 Yeah. 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.880 I mean, I think that's a good pull, right? 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:36.160 Is like you're your winner, cash prize, you reign for a year, or even the so the second runner-up is considered like a first alternate. 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:38.880 So they could sometimes get cash prizes too. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:48.480 Back years and years ago, kind of the miss division or the female impersonator division of EOI used to get a car, which was really cool. 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:51.119 I was like, okay, let's bring that back. 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.119 Ooh, uh that's fancy. 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:53.759 Yeah. 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:55.440 I mean, if you're doing all that work, you know. 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:56.960 I mean, might as well, right? 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:02.799 If you took uh media, now you have drag race and cash prizes and all of that stuff. 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:08.160 So it all kind of rooted from pageantry and even like ballroom, right? 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:09.359 Ballroom culture. 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.599 It's deep-rooted history in drag community. 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:16.160 Do you have any drag artists that inspire you or that you take inspiration from? 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:24.319 Yeah, there was actually so the King of Drag, they just had their first season of a drag king competition. 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:29.039 And it was really incredible to see kings on stage, right? 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:30.400 Like we have drag race. 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.200 I love Sasha Velure as one of my favorites. 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.559 Classic, like Vander von Odd is a friend of mine. 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:39.519 She was on Dragula, first winner, Dracula. 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:41.119 Love her dearly. 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:44.160 But as far as the Kings, I love Tenderoni. 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:45.920 Tenderoni is incredible. 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:51.440 And then the first winner of King of Drag, his name is King Bolasses.

00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.880 I has first seen him on a Housewives episode, and then I saw him on King of Drag, and then he ended up winning. 00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:57.839 Spoiler alert. 00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:59.440 But really inspired me. 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:07.599 So I'd love to circle back to something that you said earlier that really stood out to me about how you navigated internal stigma. 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:14.240 What's your experience with finding wellness and mental health resources? 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:20.640 I think that was definitely a challenge that I didn't I didn't expect that at all. 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:28.079 Because I was like, okay, I'm s you know, we're stigma-free and we're focused on like comprehensive health and wellness. 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:36.799 Like, why would I have any internalized stigma or transphobia, homophobia, or like anything adverse to sexual health? 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.039 But some of that kind of manifested. 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:43.279 And I think it was, of course, rooted in my upbringing. 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.119 I was super sheltered. 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:49.759 I don't think I ever got a sexual health conversation from my family. 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.839 I think I was actually pulled out from that class in in school. 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.039 I was pretty religious as a youth. 00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:59.680 And I just had to give myself some like great. 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:01.279 And time with that. 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.880 Okay, this is why, because you didn't get this. 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:10.720 And now you're in a position where you are the expert in this scenario, right? 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:19.519 You're going and leading a test and making sure that this person doesn't, you know, of course, not judging them if they have some stigma, right? 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:24.160 But making sure that the way that you talk about sex is really affirming. 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:34.319 So I learned first and foremost from the people that trained me, my peers, but also gave myself some time of like, it's okay, right? 00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:41.119 Because society does not really lead us to being sexually liberated or being okay. 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:53.119 And a lot of thankfully, like a lot of the people that were gender expansive that came through and got tested, it really helped them to say, like, okay, yeah, I do have sex in these ways, and that's totally okay. 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:58.000 You can have pleasure and you deserve pleasure as a queer person, trans person. 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.680 And that allowed me to do the same. 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:12.319 Through the many years that you've been doing this work, do you feel like society has become more liberated and more open about talking about sexual experiences and gender expansiveness? 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:13.599 Or how do you feel about that? 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.960 Yeah, I think so. 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:25.200 As far as the media that I've seen, even just on social media, like there's a lot more conversations around navigating sex either as a queer or trans person. 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:35.359 I think there was even like articles in kind of mainstream magazines about like how to bottom, you know, in the best way, or like how to even do that. 00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:46.160 So it feels like the conversation has gotten a lot better, but still there's a lot of communities that still have deep-rooted stigma, unfortunately. 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.759 And that's why we just continue and have these conversations. 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:51.359 Yeah, absolutely. 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:57.599 What other challenges have you faced in advocacy and being a drug artist? 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:02.480 I think being able to sustain that can be really challenging. 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:13.279 Again, like being vulnerable, or there's so much information all the time now of kind of being bombarded of like what is the most important thing. 00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:38.720 And what I've realized is that there's always gonna be something that's super important, and being able to really take care of myself as much as possible so that way I can show up in whatever capacity, whether it's speaking about something I'm passionate about, or being there for I have several drawn, so being there for some of my drawn, or I have queer children as well. 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:50.400 And sometimes it can just be that, or sometimes it can be going full force and speaking at an event or protesting or walking in the streets because that is what needs to happen. 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:59.599 One thing that I've learned is being able to really take care of myself so I can sustain continuing my advocacy work. 00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:06.880 Tell me more about your family. 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.799 Like how did you meet your wife? 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:10.240 I'd love to hear more about that. 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:17.359 Yeah, I love talking about our love story because it's I don't know if I realized how wild it is. 00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:23.759 So I had known of my wife because she's a drag performer. 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.039 Okay, that's so cool. 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:26.880 Okay, so you guys are both drag performers. 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:27.839 That's so cool. 00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:29.920 Eva Angelica Stratton. 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:31.359 That's my wife's name. 00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:39.039 So I had seen Eva at a show in Grand Rapids, Michigan years before I met her or dated her. 00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:45.039 And all I knew is that I was infatuated just in love because she's so beautiful. 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:46.960 She's stunningly beautiful. 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:53.200 And at the time, I don't think either of us were in a good place to like start dating. 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.240 But we started dating and really hit it off. 00:25:56.400

--> 00:26:00.400 And three months into dating, she was like, I'm moving to Arizona. 00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:01.680 Wow. 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:04.400 So I was like, okay, great. 00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:06.480 Three months in, that's so sudden. 00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:07.279 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:18.880 And I I mean, I was really getting to know her and of course, like infatuated by her beauty, but it takes a a while to get to know somebody and date them and all of that. 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:21.119 And she moved to Arizona. 00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:26.799 I said, okay, I have a couple months left on my lease, a little bit in my semester left. 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:28.960 I think I'm gonna move too. 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:32.640 And it really felt scary, but it felt right. 00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.880 A lot of people told me not to do it. 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:47.359 A lot of people were not on board, but I took that chance, and those first years here in Phoenix again were challenging, like really beautiful moments, but really challenging of like first moving in with somebody. 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:48.400 We lived together. 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:51.759 So you moved together three months knowing each other. 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:52.400 Yes. 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:52.799 Whoa. 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.240 Yeah, so she moved here and then I moved right after, and then we moved right in together. 00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:57.680 That is a leap of faith, right? 00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:05.119 I mean, we had her roommate, longtime friends, now one of my closest friends as well. 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:06.640 But it was challenging, right? 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.599 Like I I have only known you three months, you know, maybe a year. 00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:11.839 It's kind of like when you know you know, right? 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:12.319 Yeah. 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:19.599 It just felt right, even with those challenges and trying to get a job and all the car stuff went wrong. 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:30.880 Like everything that could go wrong went wrong in those first couple years, but we were able to grow together, which was really beautiful, and I think really this community helped a lot with that. 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:46.400 And now we've been together for what, 10 years and married for three years coming October 22nd, which is just kind of a dream come true. 00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:50.799 Like I really have found my person, which is just beautiful. 00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:56.000 And we're both trans too, so I was always told it's not gonna work. 00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:57.119 Who said that? 00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:57.759 Who said that? 00:27:58.400 --> 00:27:59.599 Right, right, exactly. 00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:01.359 People that are no longer in our lives. 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:02.079 Good, you know. 00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:04.480 But of course, people are scared. 00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:06.079 They don't really know. 00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:09.920 And when you care about somebody as a friend, you're like, what are you doing? 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:28.480 I can kind of understand their perspective, but also I had faith in us, and we've gone through a lot together, but still we always choose each other and we love each other deeply, and we have the same kind of I swear she's more of an advocate than I am. 00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:32.880 She's out there doing the work every single day and so proud of her. 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:34.640 That's so beautiful. 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:35.599 Yeah. 00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:37.039 Yeah, I love her a lot. 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:42.880 Have you ever had times where you've had to deal with burnout or just exhaustion doing that? 00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:43.920 All the time. 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:49.039 I don't think I have excelled at the self-care. 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.359 There's no medal for self-care, right? 00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:54.240 Yeah, yeah. 00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:58.640 Because it's always labeled of like take a day off or go and lay down. 00:28:58.880 --> 00:28:59.359 I don't know. 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:05.839 It's a lifelong thing that you have to like continue to take care of yourself and say, okay, I'm doing too much. 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.640 But I've experienced quite a lot of burnout. 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:16.559 I think I had to recognize that, so I I didn't exhaust myself to where I wouldn't be able to continue. 00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:25.839 So I've really, really focused on taking care of myself so that I can continue to this next whatever phase of life has for me. 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:32.079 What's your perspective on the current climate on trans health and trans rights? 00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:36.880 I think it's really detrimental to our health. 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:42.799 I know for me and my perspective, I didn't realize how much it had impacted me. 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:50.319 And I really am concerned about the people that I used to call clients or participants. 00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:58.240 That's what I've been thinking about a lot of how we can get more community, more time in person with each other. 00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:01.440 It makes me really, really nervous. 00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:11.440 And also reminds me of why I have to take care of myself because I have to show up and I have to continue to show up because there's people that are no longer here. 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.160 And that's really, really hard to grasp. 00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:21.599 That that's our reality, that there's a lot of people that I love and close friends that are no longer here because of what's going on. 00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:27.839 And I think that this is a fight that gender expansive people have fought since their existence. 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:33.519 So I can't imagine how some of our elders are feeling. 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:38.240 And again, it's it's a responsibility, like, oh, okay, I'm grown.

00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:42.160 I gotta, I gotta do this now because I'm sure our elders are really tired. 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:44.799 They had already gone through this several times over. 00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:45.119 Yeah. 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:50.799 And now it's our time to pick up that mantle, whether we're ready or not, because this is it. 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:51.599 Yeah. 00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.759 It's not the time to hide, right? 00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:54.240 Yeah. 00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:56.400 I've been in survival for a long time. 00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:58.079 I think a lot of people are. 00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:05.119 So I'm doing my best to not judge people because I know a lot of people are just trying to work on their survival. 00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:12.960 But also anybody that's willing or able or has multiple layers of support, I need them as much as possible. 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:15.359 Because I I mean, I'm having challenges, right? 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.720 And I have perceivably multiple layers of support. 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:21.279 Then what about what about everybody else? 00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:41.359 Like we're, you know, we need whatever type of privilege that you have, access to anything, food, housing, employment, just like a conversation, any type of space to be able to make sure that your friends, your family, your chosen family are going to make it, you know, the next year, the next moment. 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:43.200 We have to do that. 00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:44.240 There's no other choice. 00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:44.960 Absolutely. 00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:51.599 Have there been some resources and practical layers of support that have been really important for you? 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:52.400 Yeah. 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:57.839 I have been able to have a therapist, which I'm very proud of myself. 00:31:58.480 --> 00:31:58.960 Love that. 00:31:59.119 --> 00:31:59.920 Love therapy. 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:03.759 I really took a chance on going back to therapy. 00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:08.559 I had wrote it off as much as I talk about getting a therapist. 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.119 I had a really challenging time as a youth with therapy. 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:18.880 So I took a chance on myself and going back to therapy, and it's been really tremendous as far as my mental health. 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:28.960 I also took a chance on getting on medication again, which I again had really troubled times with my own addiction, but also being on several medications as a youth. 00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:32.240 And that has been really transformative for me. 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:34.960 Some sense of ease and calm. 00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:42.480 But again, just staying like with community and our people has every time I'm with our kids, it's like I feel recharged. 00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:43.359 I'm like, okay. 00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:44.799 Oh, we're gonna be okay. 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:46.160 Like everything's okay. 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:55.440 So I think that helps me, my meditation, or if I can go to a recovery meeting, that's always nice, or being with other sober people I love. 00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:04.480 But I think whatever makes you feel recharged at the end of the day, whether it's a person or a thing, like go towards that as much as possible. 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.799 You talked about you're waiting for that next phase in your life. 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:10.480 And what do you envision? 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.279 Like, what do you imagine your future is going to be like in, I don't know, like five, 10 years? 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:24.319 It is so wild to think of because where I'm at today I never thought was possible, which is wild to think about. 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:30.400 Like I went back to college, like I walked this last May with my associates. 00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:40.480 Like, so maybe continuing school, going further than I ever thought I would, maybe some roots in Arizona. 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:47.359 I think ultimately big dream, you know, liberation for trans and queer folks would be nice. 00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:47.920 Yes. 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:51.039 Being able to go outside and not be scared. 00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:51.519 Yeah. 00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.440 But yeah, I think the possibilities are endless. 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:05.039 It's just if I'm willing to take a chance on myself and also the people around me, I guess. 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:06.079 Could be anything. 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:07.039 I love that. 00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:12.480 What would you tell someone that is having a hard time envisioning the future right now? 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:16.400 That one's always really challenging because I've been there and I understand it. 00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:18.559 I picture it like being in a pit. 00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:24.880 I've always envisioned that like when I have I'm somebody that navigates PTSD, depression, anxiety. 00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:30.320 And to me, when I'm in the depths of those things, I refer to it as the pit. 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.760 So I'm in this pit. 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:35.440 There is a ladder next to me. 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.840 Sometimes I can't see the ladder at all. 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.840 Sometimes there's a person up above screaming, There's a ladder. 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:47.599 Get on the ladder, get out of the pit. 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:50.480 You need sometimes I can't even hear the person or see the person. 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:53.760 Sometimes I can see the ladder, I can't hear the person. 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:59.599 So when I think about the pit, I try to remind myself of like, okay, I'm there. 00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:13.760 I need to find that sense of quiet to be able to either see it or to hear the person and know that there's somebody on that other side or some tool that I need to find to get out of it. 00:35:14.000 -->

00:35:17.280 And it's a lifelong journey for me or for anybody. 00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:36.880 I think for me, being able to sit with that person, being able to acknowledge what they're going through, been very fortunate to go through psychological first aid and help people that are going through really challenging thoughts, feelings, and to name suicide is super powerful. 00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:42.320 I never understood that until I went through that and helped people navigate that. 00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:49.440 Because if you're looking at society or social media, it's really challenging to find any sense of hope sometimes. 00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:50.079 Yeah. 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:56.800 And to first just sit with that person and be like, yeah, things really, really suck. 00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:57.679 I get it. 00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:58.639 I understand. 00:35:58.800 --> 00:35:59.679 I've also been there. 00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:00.719 I've been in the pit. 00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.039 I was in the pit last week, you know, whatever that was. 00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:07.119 But then to also say, okay, what was something that you enjoyed today? 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:08.639 What made you feel good today? 00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:10.480 Do you want to go get some coffee tomorrow? 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:15.760 Or I think those little bits of connection can hopefully help over time. 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:16.559 Yeah. 00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.519 And it's whatever feels good for them. 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:31.760 I think we're focused a lot of like making other people happy, or with social media being the best version that you can on there and saying like, yeah, I'm not perfect. 00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:32.880 No one's perfect. 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.280 I don't expect anyone else to be. 00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:37.199 A perfectionism is a myth. 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:38.079 It's such a myth. 00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:39.519 It truly, truly is. 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:45.440 And I think like for me, that's how I was raised is like that's what you absolutely have to be. 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:54.719 And I see some like common threads in social media of that of like you have to look absolutely perfect or you have to have Wake up at 5 a.m. 00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.519 Have a macho latte, go and work out. 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:08.960 Like, okay, well, you were just on the couch earlier with your potato chips, and that's okay too, because you deserve to binge watch your favorite show because you want to just maybe watch Bluey. 00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:09.679 I don't know. 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.079 Like Bluey's a great show. 00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:13.679 Bluey is so good. 00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:25.199 What do you think is important for people to understand about trans experiences? 00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:26.880 That is such a great question. 00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:36.400 I've had this question a lot over time, and it always leads into like, why do you think people are so scared of us or are doing all of this right? 00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.159 Like, why are you so obsessed? 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:38.639 Okay. 00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:44.960 But I think the one thing that I want people to understand is like, we're human beings. 00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:47.440 I don't know why that is such a far concept. 00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:48.880 For real though. 00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:52.400 But and I try not to be so harsh with that, right? 00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.960 Because I'm like, how could you not understand? 00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:14.320 But as somebody that tries to have conversations with people, we are human beings that want to get care, want to have relationships, want to have sex, want to have maybe kids, want to have a good job, that maybe pays for things. 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:16.719 Maybe want to go to school. 00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:24.639 And there's a lot of similarities and there's a lot of parallels between our lives and cis people's lives. 00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:34.880 And I don't think that humanization or like humanizing of us happens because they're like, oh, like I don't understand what's happening. 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:36.719 Why, how could you do that? 00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:40.719 Well, you don't understand because you you're not trans, right? 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.639 So you've never had that experience. 00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:51.760 But maybe there was a time where you feel different or felt othered in your life or questioned something or felt alone. 00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:55.360 Like, there's probably some of those experiences that you've had. 00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:58.400 So I try to lean into that a little bit. 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:09.519 I mean, for instance, like my parents don't understand, couldn't possibly understand, but they understand I'm happy and they understand that I wasn't happy as a child. 00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:14.079 And sometimes it takes that to realize or to support somebody. 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:19.840 And like, okay, well, this person needs these few things to be able to be happy. 00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:21.679 Don't you want somebody to be happy? 00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:28.880 So I wish people investigated or like questioned kind of some of that things of like, couldn't I just be kind in this moment? 00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:31.679 Couldn't I just like wish somebody'd be happy? 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:41.760 But a lot of it is covered by society's expectation of gender, society's expectations of our lives. 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:51.119 That's a laundry list of expectations for cis women, cis men, and they're probably dealing with a lot of those pressures and they don't even realize it. 00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:54.079 Just want a little bit more kindness, I think, and understanding. 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:54.639 Yeah. 00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:57.519 Like, how is someone else's happiness a threat to you? 00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:58.239 Yeah. 00:39:58.400 -->

00:40:02.800 If it is, then there's probably some deeper digging you have to do in your life. 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:04.960 Like, why am I so concerned about that? 00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:08.000 I think for me, I was not about it. 00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:11.199 I was super religious as a youth. 00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:16.480 I came out several times after that as by as a lesbian. 00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:17.280 I don't know. 00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:20.320 I came out so many times, went in and out of the closet. 00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:24.719 And when it came to the trans conversation, I was pretty ignorant. 00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:26.559 And that's like part of my journey. 00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:36.639 I don't really talk about it too much because it's I don't operate from that place, but I think it's a really powerful thing to say, like, I was so concerned and like overly concerned and ignorant. 00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:40.239 Well, maybe that's because I was having those thoughts and feelings. 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:47.199 And I realized that I don't say, oh, well, I am probably the biggest jerk because I was giving my friends a hard time. 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:55.679 But that's because I didn't understand or really sit with myself and say, hey, you've been experiencing this your entire life. 00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.880 And that's probably why you're so concerned about it. 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:17.440 I don't think I understood or respected wit women as a lesbian, but now as a transmasculine person and understanding the experiences I went through, the experiences my sister went through, it's been really, really eye-opening to be able to be like, okay, yes, absolutely I am a feminist because I finally get it. 00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:24.480 You know, it's it's it was like that deeply rooted with society and religion and everything. 00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:27.679 It was like fully bought the patriarchy, I think. 00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:29.679 Not the patriarchy. 00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:30.400 Oh no. 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:41.280 So it really sounds like you have this multidimensional experience of both sides of the spectrum that led you to who you are today. 00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:41.920 Yeah. 00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:51.199 It's wild too, because I feel so confident in my femininity now than I ever did as somebody that was assigned female at birth. 00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:52.800 Which I mean makes sense, right? 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.119 I was never connected with it, I never got it. 00:41:55.280 --> 00:42:00.800 Even as a lesbian, I was like, that doesn't really feel like me as far as a term. 00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:50.639 I think I really appreciate women a lot more now, which I'm very thankful for, because now I can be in some spaces where women are at and understand, okay, well, one, I might not be welcome in said space, but I can understand their perspectives as to why, or be supportive to women, not even disclosing my transness, but just like empathizing with if they're a cis woman and have a period or experiencing some pain that I have gone through, or just having some more empathy and compassion than I think I've seen some cis counterparts experience or exhibit, and then I now am this person, even though, of course, like I have my own flaws, but it's wild that no matter what you're born into, that you can kind of evolve as a person and grow. 00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:54.719 And I'm really thankful to be able to like even say that. 00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:00.960 Like, I said I was an introvert, but I was an introvert because of the people around me were not safe. 00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:16.000 Now I'm I'm still a good portion of an introvert, but I'm an extrovert because I can stand here and say I love myself, but I also love the people I'm around and they accept me and they see me and they welcome me fully. 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:17.440 That's super cool. 00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:18.400 That is super cool. 00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:21.519 Oh my gosh, I want to talk to somebody. 00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:26.719 You know, like I was always that kid that first did not talk, but is always with the animals. 00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:28.000 Catch me with the animals. 00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:28.960 The animals get it. 00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:30.480 Yeah, I don't want to deal with y'all. 00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:31.679 I can't deal with y'all. 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:33.039 I'm gonna be with the animals. 00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:37.280 But now I'm like, yes, I will also be with the dog, but I'm gonna be with you too. 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.880 So once you find those lifetime people, it's you're set. 00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:49.840 So, like me, whether it was pageantry or drag or like falling in love with my now wife, the people that support you will show you that. 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:51.599 Like the people that show up. 00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:57.360 I always say, like, if you have my phone number, if you know that I have a sister and a half sister, like you're showing up, right? 00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:01.840 Like if I invite you to something and And I said, this really means something to me. 00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:03.679 Like I would really love for you to come. 00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:04.880 Do you show up for me? 00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:11.440 And maybe that's not you can't always do that, but the people that support you and show up for you will show that, of course. 00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:17.440 And I think I learned over time like who those people are and who I can trust, of course, ultimately. 00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:22.000 Did you feel like you really had a choice though in the spaces that you were in? 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:26.159 I think I was pretty limited in my worldview, just in general. 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:29.360 So like as a youth, I was so closed off. 00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:30.480 Okay, that makes sense. 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:33.199 I didn't have a friend group to kind of pull from.

00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:41.280 But as somebody I I left home 18, 19, got to a point where my family was absolutely not going to support me. 00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:43.519 And they were like, You gotta go. 00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:45.840 It's you know, it's this or that type of thing. 00:44:46.000 --> 00:45:04.000 So I lived in Couch Surf for several years, and I think during that time, yeah, I probably didn't have a choice of like, okay, well, these people are gonna let me sleep on their couch, or I'm gonna be drinking for a long time, you know, whatever is gonna help me survive through the next day, I'll be fine with. 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:04.400 Yeah. 00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:09.840 So now uh at a place where I get to choose where I'm at, who I spend time with. 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:11.440 Yeah, absolutely different. 00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:13.519 I took a chance on myself, you know. 00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:19.360 I I trusted myself to be able to move to Arizona or take a chance on love. 00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:27.760 But absolutely, like the people around me built me up quite a lot of like deserving of life, whatever that meant. 00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:29.119 I think I still deal with that. 00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:37.679 And I think especially like we're talking about the political landscape, the l just life, that puts me back there a lot. 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:43.599 And some of it's familiar, of like, oh, this is almost familiar to me, but it doesn't feel good. 00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:46.000 I don't want to get back to that. 00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:52.559 But I also realize that there's so many people that are still kind of stuck in survival or not even stuck, like you have no choice. 00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:58.239 So I try not to judge my past self or present self if that manifests. 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:05.840 And also if somebody's doing something that I don't necessarily like, I'm like, okay, well, maybe I don't know their situation. 00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:08.480 Sounds like you have a lot of understanding. 00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:13.360 I think because a lot of people gave me that when I don't think I necessarily deserved it. 00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:18.480 I don't think I was always the most compassionate or empathetic person or kind person. 00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:27.760 So even like in my worst moments, a lot of people gave me grace, or you know, a lot of people didn't, and then I learned from it. 00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:36.800 Do you feel like compassion is something that we should reserve and only give to people we feel like deserve it, or do you feel like it should be expansive? 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.360 Like, how do you navigate that? 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:41.119 So, like, don't see it. 00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:46.079 I say that and I'm like giving myself grace, and that's not giving myself grace because I still deserved it. 00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:46.400 Yeah. 00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:47.599 So that is fair. 00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:57.360 And I'll tell you this: I worked in harm reduction in my last job, and I worked there for about a year, which I had understood harm reduction for a couple years. 00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:01.599 And it took me a while to like grow in that learning. 00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:06.480 Harm reduction is about meeting people where they're at, specifically people who use drugs. 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:09.840 And absolutely everybody deserves it. 00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:12.159 I don't think you have to be a certain way. 00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:27.599 I think what I was referring to is when I look back in my life and that period of my life, it's really hard to give myself grace or not judge myself because I know a lot of things that I did I was not proud of. 00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:32.800 And I don't necessarily like blame it on my addiction, but I was heavily in my addiction. 00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:34.559 But I had a lot of pain. 00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:47.119 I was in a lot of pain mentally, emotionally, physically, and I didn't really understand or have the emotional intelligence to understand what was going on, and really had a very limited worldview. 00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:55.679 So that's why I'm like, it's sometimes frustrating to think about that person of like, how could you do that or say that or hurt those people? 00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:04.880 Because I had a lot of relationships where I relied on them so heavily to guide me or to be my therapist. 00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:16.960 And I couch surfed on a lot of people's couches and didn't pay them, or when I did have a job, you know, didn't provide rent, like just things that I wasn't really jazzed about, you know. 00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:22.480 Like those are not qualities that I really would want for myself now or for the people I care about. 00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:26.159 But even so, I still deserve that compassion and empathy. 00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:27.360 You're absolutely right. 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:32.800 So yeah, I think that's still like a daily struggle of like, all right, we'll give you some grace. 00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:38.960 Like, I don't think I always realize like all of the things that I went through and how to me it was normal. 00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:48.800 So, to other people, if I tell everybody my entire life story, they'd be like, Oh, so you're okay, or like you're standing up, but yeah. 00:48:48.960 --> 00:49:00.800 I think I I definitely learned that a lot too with working directly with people who use drugs, and they would be nice to be acknowledged, to have a warm, friendly smile and be like, How are you doing today? 00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:01.360 Yeah. 00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:06.239 Oh, not great, but you know, like, oh no, I'm doing okay. 00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:07.280 Happy to see you. 00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:08.400 Awesome, cool. 00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:14.400 So you feel like that helped you extend that compassion towards people that were struggling with the same things. 00:49:14.800 -->

00:49:15.360 Yeah, yeah. 00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:20.559 Cause I mean, for me, it took a long time to really acknowledge my addiction. 00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:24.559 I had already always said that I don't drink. 00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:27.599 That was kind of where I left it. 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:34.159 And then kind of several years into living in Arizona, I was like, no, I'm in recovery. 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:39.360 And to talk to some people about it, but I'm pretty proud about that now. 00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:56.159 Of like talking about I never really understood or knew my sober date, and now I kind of have like identified it and share that every year and talk about my sobriety and how it's still challenging and it's lifelong dedication to myself of like this is what I want for myself. 00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:58.079 And yeah, it's not for everybody. 00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:04.719 I still firmly believe in harm reduction and getting the tools that you need to use as safely as you can. 00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.039 But yeah, it definitely helped me. 00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:07.519 Yeah. 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:14.239 And it's just so hard sometimes because we just have such a lack of the support systems that people desperately need. 00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:25.119 So it's just like there's so many people that fall through the cracks and like, yeah, and it's like it takes so much resources to provide someone with the wraparound whole person care that they need. 00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:25.760 It's truly. 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:27.519 And it's like we really need that. 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:39.599 Understands all those, I say like subsections, but it's really just being able to understand said person, whomever it is, and like, oh, okay, yes, they have a diverse background. 00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:59.280 And maybe because they're gender expansive, they might be more susceptible to using drugs, or maybe they don't, or if they're using drugs, but all of the disparities, all of the studies show, like, okay, housing, income, food, like all of those things that you need to just live your life. 00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:14.559 And unfortunately, like a good portion of the people that are in those fields don't know that, have so much burnout from working with specific communities, are not supported themselves as a diverse person in that field. 00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:36.000 Like, we could go on and on about indigenous care and access to clean water, or it's really, really challenging and hard to see because I'm like, I feel like I can look at somebody and like, oh, okay, I would love to learn about all of you as a human being, and also knowing that you probably just need like, do you need some food? 00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:38.159 Like, do you need a ride? 00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:56.079 Like, whatever that is, and just can we provide that without all of these things or all of these forms or all of these, like even the language that we use of like, why does everything have to be gendered, or why do we black women's health care and their pain level of like, why is that not understood? 00:51:56.239 --> 00:52:04.239 But of course, that leads back to a long history of care in our country, and really not understanding it. 00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:12.559 And if we're gonna go even further, like we have to really acknowledge and talk about racism, which is a whole nother conversation. 00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:20.239 Like, okay, well, it's very clear we're not our people are not ready for that conversation and how that impacts everything. 00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:21.119 Yeah. 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:23.119 Like it does come down to history. 00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:26.800 Like, history is so important to understand and work through. 00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:30.400 It's like we have to get through the ghosts of the past. 00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:39.920 I didn't really understand that until recently, too, I don't think, or at least the last several years of all of the things that my mother and my grandmother went. 00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:42.800 Okay, well, that clearly impacts me as well. 00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:51.920 Yeah, okay, yeah, my experience as a youth, super religious, brown and primarily white communities and all of that stuff. 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:56.000 But my grandmother grew up in a war-torn country. 00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:59.360 She was Palestinian, watched her father die in front of her. 00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:01.039 Oh my gosh, holy cow. 00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:03.599 And she always just said that it was nothing. 00:53:03.679 --> 00:53:09.119 Like that was not that it was nothing, but that was her entire life of being in a war-torn country. 00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:23.440 And then my mother grew up in Jordan, born in Jordan, migrated, and born with her umbilical cord around her neck, which is shown to have lasting effects, depending on the person. 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:27.440 And she's navigated mental health challenges ever since I can remember. 00:53:27.679 --> 00:53:36.400 And I'm like, okay, well, obviously, being from a war-torn country and just how all of that affects down to me. 00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:39.440 And I can't imagine what they experienced. 00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:53.920 So, with your own experience with your family, did you have a moment where you felt like your parents started acknowledging that you're happy now? 00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:56.559 Yeah, it's been really, really nice. 00:53:56.719 --> 00:54:01.360 So I will say, unfortunately, for I respect my mother, I love my mother. 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:12.559 However, we do not see eye to eye as far as anything in regards to my personal life or me being trans, my marriage, like anything like that, unfortunately. 00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:13.679 And that's okay. 00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:16.960 Religion for her has saved her, and I respect that. 00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:26.159 But in regards to my father, I've been really proud of the growth that we've made

in our, I guess I would say, relationship. 00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:30.639 He has called me by my name, which has been really beautiful. 00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:34.400 He always says child, he does not say daughter anymore. 00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:45.679 I think my stepmom has said something to the effect of like, we don't necessarily, you know, uh support that, but like, we understand that that is the choice that you made for your life to be happy. 00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:51.599 Because they saw me so depressed every single day, did not want to be on this earth at all. 00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:57.519 So I can imagine for them, like it's nice for them to see that I'm an adult. 00:54:57.679 --> 00:54:59.920 I grew up to be an adult, which is awesome. 00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:09.360 Maybe some success in their lives is or in their perspective of me being married, you know, living on my own, having a job, stuff like that. 00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:12.559 But yeah, he has said very nice things. 00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:15.039 If you know, he still says that he loves me. 00:55:15.199 --> 00:55:16.960 And previously we didn't talk. 00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:22.719 He asked to meet me a few years ago when it had been about ten years since we hadn't seen each other. 00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:23.280 Wow. 00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:25.039 Which I thought was really nice. 00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:31.280 And it was a good conversation, pretty healing, and text him now and again, call him. 00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:38.079 I don't think, you know, not by any means a father-son relationship, but I I will absolutely take it. 00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:44.000 Because that's major growth from where we were when I was kicked out of my house. 00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:48.480 So or left home, kicked out of my house, because it was not a good spot. 00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:50.000 That's a huge deal. 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:50.719 Yeah, yeah. 00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:52.239 That's a big transformation. 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:54.719 I don't think I ever thought that was possible. 00:55:55.039 --> 00:55:55.360 Yeah. 00:55:55.920 --> 00:56:04.480 But he's always been a really introspective, super quiet guy, super like loves nature and reads. 00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:13.199 Like he went to Puerto Rico and lived in Puerto Rico for some time, doing missionary work there for the religion that they're in. 00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:17.280 And I think that helped as far as perspective. 00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:23.920 Went through Hurricane Maria and like a lot of things that I don't know if he's ever experienced. 00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:31.199 And it just seems like as he's grown older, he's understood a little bit, like our relationship is important. 00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:33.599 So I will take that. 00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:34.239 Yeah. 00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:34.800 Yeah. 00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:37.519 He's now in Florida living his best life. 00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:37.920 Yeah. 00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:39.440 Florida. 00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:40.079 Yeah. 00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:42.559 I was like, why Florida? 00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:44.320 I guess he loves it. 00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:46.159 I mean, they have beaches there. 00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:49.840 Jerko, thank you so much for being on the Lavender Lounge today. 00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:55.760 It's been so amazing hearing about your experiences, your work as a drag artist, and your advocacy. 00:56:56.079 --> 00:56:57.360 Thank you so much. 00:56:57.840 --> 00:56:59.440 Thank you so much for having me. 00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:02.320 It's truly like bucketless, checked off. 00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:07.039 I'm so jazzed and really honored to be here and share a little bit about myself. 00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:11.119 And I also want to give a shout out to Vitalist, the sponsor of this episode. 00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:16.800 Vitalist supports innovation, healthcare, and is a big advocate for the queer community. 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:18.400 So thank you so much, Vitalist. 00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:20.719 And see you later. 00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:22.400 Thanks, y'all.