บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ 196 | Is EOS Too Rigid? Let’s Discuss - Hani Malek

again, and you're adding no new information or no value to the discussion, stop. Stop drop and roll, right? And move to the solve. ⁓ because Many team teams will sit there and talk and talk and talk and talk, but nobody's moving to a proposed solution. Someone in the room needs to recognize that there's no more information being added. It's time to either move to a solution or or make some other decision. But somebody needs to propose it. Hey, I think we should do X, Y, and Z. And as soon as that hits the nail on the head in terms of that person whose issue it is, they're the ones who then declare, I'm solved, right? I got what I needed. I got the permission I needed, I got the information I needed, I got unstuck. Whatever it is that they came into the issue with, if they received what they wanted, they declared that they've got what they need, and we're moving on. And the whole point of that is to identify and discuss and solve multiple, multiple issues in a room in every one of our meetings. How many of us have had meetings that have gone on and on for hours and hours solving nothing, where we're just you know, spinning our wheels and going over the same things over and over again. We run out of time and we walk out of the room and we're like, well, that was a waste of time. IDS IDSing properly like I just described and how we teach it will allow you to process, quote unquote, process three, six, nine, twelve issues each meeting. So you're you'll actually look forward to these meetings because you're you're getting a lot done, right? You're you're tackling things head on. They're not lingering and you're efficiently and effectively Processing those issues. That's what I'm So let me ask you this, right? You mentioned ⁓ sometimes meetings can get dragged on, you know, where people are talking about it. Maybe everyone has an opinion. That's what we have seen. but you're you're not dealing with the people that actually have the power to make the decision, right? They're just kind of giving their opinions because that's how it's always been done, right? At the executive level. We're gonna talk through it. How do you cut somebody off respectfully without them feeling like you just took away my my view and you don't even care what I think because I'm not involved in this decision making. Yeah. Well it goes right back to what we touched on earlier. first of all, I I'm a I'm a believer that wisdom comes from the council of many and we haven't talked about our faith in scripture yet, but yeah, that's based in scripture. And so I I'm a believer that, you know, it's good to have people weighing in, again, assuming that there's value and there's competence and all that kind of stuff. ⁓ so I'm I'm one to to like to have voices in the room, right? But but what's really important is that the room needs to understand that just because I didn't decide to go in the direction you wanted doesn't mean you weren't heard, right? So you weighed in, you gave me your thoughts and opinion, I used it to formulate my thoughts and opinion. But if I'm the ultimate decision maker, and again, this has to do with leadership style and whether or not you know it's top down and command and control versus truly collaborative. That's a whole different topic in terms of how people run businesses and and how leadership teams function. But if we're truly going to be a collection of people thinking about the greater good and coming up with the best solutions possible, and you gave me your input, ⁓ and I've taken it under advisement, but I'm now going to choose direction A versus your ⁓ desired direction B, that's where that alignment versus agreement comes into play, right? I heard you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions. ⁓ I'm going to go in this direction, or I believe what's best for the company is this direction. So we must be aligned after this very ⁓ helpful discussion, right? We we encourage people to discuss and debate vigorously, right? Fight for what you believe in. But at the end of the day, we may not go in your direction, we may not agree, but we must be aligned and we're gonna go in this direction. For over thirty three years, C C B Technology has been a trusted IT partner. And with a Heart for Service, we've proudly supported over 50,000 nonprofits across all 50 states, helping them further their missions through innovative technology solutions. Looking to stretch your IT dollars? Leverage our 300-plus vendor partnerships to get the best pricing on IT products and licensing. But that's not all we do. CCB Technology also offers a wide range of support options, including managed IT services, cloud solutions, and IT consulting, or your one-stop shop for all things IT. Join the thousands of satisfied clients who trust CCB for their IT needs and experience the difference that decades of quality support and expertise can make. CCB Technology managed IT services for nonprofits and SMBs. Visit us at CCBtechnology.com to learn more. One of things you've also pointed out, I think goes with it, is if the issue keeps happening every week, it keeps coming up, what does that usually mean? It means that whatever conversation you had and whatever solution or solve that you came up with didn't well, it means one of two things. You either didn't understand what the issue was in the first place. So you IDS, but you didn't IDS the core issue, or the solution you came up with wasn't really going to permanently, effectively, and efficiently solve that problem for good. That's what it is, typically, right? So ⁓ it could be anything. It could be process, it could be ⁓ employee, it could be whatever. The bottom line is that solution wasn't enough to solve the issue. So you have to go back, discuss it again, and see, you know, unpack it and figure out where where things went ⁓ off kilter. We did we did we I did we identify the root issue properly? Yes. Okay, was the solution adequate to to permanently solve the issue?

Doesn't look like it. Or no, the solution was good. We just didn't execute the solution. We we had a great conversation, but we didn't we didn't ⁓ actually initiate the solve. ⁓ correct. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. And one of the things that I know we haven't touched on either, but this is another key part of EOS is scorecards. And I just want to make sure what is a scorecard? ⁓ because I know people talk about KPIs. So explain the difference between a KPI and maybe a scorecard for US. You know, that that's just what we use. We use that term. ⁓ many companies use dashboard or flash report or KPIs or bowling chart or scoreboard, whatever you want to call it. The bottom line is what are the five to fifteen leading indicator numbers? Really key here. Leading indicators, not trailing, not things that have already happened that we have no control over. Leading indicators that if we do these things, we will achieve our desired results. What are the five to fifteen numbers that we can look at week by week that that tell us the following? That tell us we are on track to achieve our goals, that gives us a pulse on our business, ⁓ that predict the future results that we're hoping for. And the fourth and most important element is that it causes us to take action. Like we see the numbers are red and we're gonna do something about it, versus we see the numbers are red and we just go, ⁓ they're red. Let's move on to the next one because we only have five minutes, let's say. So this is early on in our level 10 meeting that we haven't talked about yet. But early on, when we're in this very effective meeting that you look forward to that I mentioned a few minutes ago, we are we are identifying the rocks that we need to get done and we are identifying the scorecard and the numbers that need to be achieved. And we are looking for you to have weekly leading indicators so that you have 13 opportunities within a quarter to to recognize trends when they're happening. And do something about it. That's why we don't believe in monthly or quarterly numbers and we don't believe in numbers that have already happened in the past because you you don't have enough data and you don't have enough time to react. But when you have 13 data points, after two or three data points, you're going to make some decision. Either the numbers aren't correct, or they're not leading you where you want to be, or they are correct, but we're not achieving them. Therefore, we got to drop down. That scorecard item and identify, discuss, and solve how we're going to turn that red item to green. So let's let's talk about the meetings. Let's do that. Cause that that is where it mat it all comes together, right? Because you can have you have a framework, but if you're not doing it in the meetings, it it doesn't go anywhere. So you mentioned there's weekly meetings, then there's the quarterly meetings with you, and then there's a two-day annual. Let's start with what does a weekly meeting look like for a company who's running EOS? Yeah, we refer to it as L10 or level 10. That's because at the end of the meeting we rate it and we want to rate it a 10, right? That was awesome. We hit we did everything we wanted to do. So that's that's where that term comes from. And again, it's the it's the you know, you kind of almost said it. It's it's where the magic happens, it's the moment of truth. It's where people have to show up and deliver. And they certainly don't want to be embarrassed, right? So everyone comes to this meeting and we are reporting not just status, but you know, we're we're reporting status on The most important things in the business, starting with the scorecard, right? These are the five to fifteen numbers, either on track or off track. All we're doing is reporting. If we don't have numbers that are on track, we drop it down into the issues part of the meeting so we can solve for that. Then we review rocks. We talk about whether our rocks are on track to be done in 90 days or not. And if a rock is not on track to be done, we drop that down to the issues portion of the meeting. We then move into customer and employee headlines. Johnny's leaving the company, or ABC company's really mad at us, or hey, we have an RFQ from ⁓ XYZ company. Big headlines that really matter to the leadership team. Sometimes they're just informational. Sometimes, ⁓ boy, we better drop that down to make sure that we nail that to the issues part of the meeting. And then lastly, to-dos. Last week you left the meeting back to that solution that we talked about, identifying, discussing, and solving problems. Sometimes a solve is simply a to do. Hey, I'll make that phone call or hey, I'll talk to that person. Now we're just following up to see if the to dos got to to done, right? And again, back to accountability. Nobody wants to show up and say, Yeah, I didn't do that. I forgot. I got busy. My sewer backed up. My my urinal got backed up. Right. ⁓ and so I don't know what you're talking about today at all. Yeah. Sorry. but the bottom line is we We get away from excuse making and people say, Look, I I'm gonna make sure that the minute I leave that meeting, I follow through on my commitments, right? And so that level ten meeting starts out that way. Now that's twenty-five minutes kind of we have a segue that we didn't talk about at the beginning just to kind of ease into the meeting. But now twenty-five minutes have elapsed in our meeting, and now we have a solid sixty minutes to identify, discuss and solve the biggest issues this company is facing, and we prioritize which issues we're gonna solve. Over the next sixty minutes and we go right down the list. Number one priority, number two priority, number three. We get those three issues solved, we move on to the next top three priorities. We nail those three and we keep moving through until the sixty minutes is up. With five minutes left to go, we ⁓ recap any new to-dos that that people committed

to. We decide if there are any cascading messages that we need to tell the rest of the organization. We determine who's gonna tell who what by when. We make sure everyone is tight on that. And lastly, we rate the meeting. And if it's not a 10, we need to tell each other why it wasn't a 10, right? Hey, half of us were here, or we were distracted, or we didn't start on time, or we didn't stay focused, or you were on your phone, or so-and-so was grumpy, or whatever it is, because we have to tell each other the truth. We have to speak to each other in truth so that we can get better every every meeting, every quarter, every year. That leads us to the quarterly sessions that we have. We believe that human nature, people get distracted every 90 days. They need a reset button to get refocused. So we get together and we evaluate what did we commit to doing as a business? How did we do it? Did we hit our numbers? Did we get our rocks done? We're either winning because we nailed it or we're learning something, right? We took on too much, we didn't stay focused, we didn't stay resourced, or we didn't resource it enough. Whatever it is, we learn from it and we say, okay. We're gonna do better. And so we get better and better, building that muscle, becoming better predictors of what we can tackle each 90 days, so that we can achieve our annual goals, which takes us all the way to the two-day. So we do that quarterly review every 90 days until we get to the two-day annual planning session, where we then take a look at our business, more long-range planning. We do SWOT analysis, we do team health, we then take a look at what the next three years looks like for us, what the next one year. Priorities are, those are the goals we set. We then set new rocks to start working on those new goals that we set. And then we once again take all those issues and we put ⁓ in the parking lot. We'll solve them later. They're not priorities. We didn't make a goal out of it. We didn't decide that it's a rock. We're gonna put it in the issues list. We'll come back to it ninety days from now and see if it rises to the level of importance for us to tackle in this next quarter. That's how that cadence works. That's great. Thank you for explaining how all three work. For the business owner that's out there that says, Hanny, two days? We have to do two days at the end of the year and we have to do a full day ⁓ each quarter. We don't have time for that. What would you say to that business owner? Well, you you don't have time not to do that, but I get it. I I totally get it. But think about this. We're talking about five days. ⁓ to to take a page out of ⁓ Alan Iverson, right? We're talking about practice. Right? Yeah. We're talking about practice. We're talking about five days, right? Five days. dedicated to working on the business. That's if you think about all the potential wasted time and energy that goes on the rest of the year, these five days really are critical. Especially, you know, in light of you're gonna do work ahead of time to set yourself up for a great quarterly and a great annual. We don't just waltz into this room and say, okay, Honey, what do you got for us? or any EOS implementer, you guys are doing prep work. You're thinking about what matters most and what the priorities are and where we want to go and what we've learned and where what we've wanna get done in the next year. And so we set ourselves up to make sure that the most important things get tackled. And I just ask you, doesn't your business, doesn't the team that you're responsible for deserve you carving out five, yes, precious days out of your business year to set yourself up for success? And if I have convince if I have to convince a business owner, then then EOS or any operating system might not be for them. I would just simply ask them a rhetorical question. How's that working out for you? You know, it has if it if it's working out, if if your current system, your current cade couldn't current cadence, your current ⁓ inability to meet regularly as a team is working out, great. That's awesome. I mean, we're just we're here to help the people who it's not working for. You know, that that things aren't going the way they want them to go. They're not getting things done. But if your current system works for you, awesome. That helps. That helps a lot. I explained I really do appreciate how you explain that. ⁓ now to all the people out there who's listening to this, now between the first segment and now here we are halfway through the second segment, and they're hearing all these processes of how ES works, right? Between the meetings, to the structure to the two people between the visionary and the integrator. ⁓ this is a lot of work, right? And somebody might be thinking, because I've been that person and I've looked right at you and you have said to me, Patrick, EOS is not a straight jacket for CEOs. It's a seatbelt. Can you explain more about that? Cause we're I'm now at the stage, I want to debunk EOS and maybe give people, give you the questions that people are thinking, like this thing sounds so rigid. So what do you say to somebody about it being a straight jacket? Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ the the fr the phrase I usually use is EOS is a framework, not a straitjacket, right? ⁓ yeah. But same thing, seatbelt framework. I mean, we we are here to help you get more stuff done, get in control of your business, increase the value of your business. And what we don't want to do is have you feel like I I you know, I ha ⁓ I'm committed to something that doesn't feel right and I don't like. That that would be awful, right? It's kind of like Safety is everyone's job or continuous improvement. It just can't be like, you know, we're told this is how it's gonna be. We have to live it. We have to believe in it. And so if if the leader or leadership team feels like it's restrictive and obnoxious, it it's just not gonna work. Okay. Now, let's let's break it down. There are

foundational and fundamental parts of VOS that I'm going to say are a straitjacket in terms of like we don't just throw them in the garbage and say we're not gonna do that part, right? The VTO, the vision traction organizer, letting everyone know who we are, where we're going, and how we're gonna get there. That is essential. We can't not have that. The accountability chart like we talked about, we can't not have that. Doing rocks, foundational. The meeting pulse we just talked about, foundational. Scorecard, foundational. Okay. So when someone says, hey, I don't really want to do EOS the way you want to teach it, I say, well then EOS isn't really for you. Because those five things that I just recited are foundational. Now, ⁓ we t we we joked a little bit about EOS purity and all that ⁓ earlier. ⁓ the bottom line is there are things that there are you can nibble around the edges ⁓ about, for instance, like the people analyzer that we talk about in terms of assessing whether you got the a right person sitting in the right seat. We have a plus, plus, minus, minus grading system. If someone says to me, Hey, ⁓ we like to do a nine box or we have a different methodology, ⁓ fine. You know, we that's we won't force that into your business, say you must do it this way. As long as you have a repeatable process that allows you to identify where there are gaps in people in ⁓ sitting in the right seat or whether they fit your core values, that's great. So that would be an example for me anyway. Again, I'll teach you purely how what tool we use and how we why we ⁓ encourage you to use that tool. But if you are able to skin that cat with a different tool, no problem. Okay. But the other foundational things that I just mentioned, yeah, you can't pick and choose, right? You you gotta you gotta be all in because this process works. It's been proven to work. 30,000 different companies over the last 20 plus years. ⁓ 250,000 full day sessions that we just talked about have been held and the results have been ⁓ amazing. So I just don't argue with the the results and the proven system that I got to benefit from as a client. And now three years of watching amazing work happen at with my clients. Totally makes sense. So one of the things that I know as visionaries, because you're wired to think be the integrator. ⁓ from everything I know of you. And then there's guys like me who are visionaries, and we don't like to be tied down. We are we're up in the clouds, right? We're floating, we're coming up with ideas all the time. How can visionaries sabotage EOS without even realizing it? Typically, a visionary, A, e even though what I'm about to say, there are exceptions, but typically a visionary, when they get to this place, they they have come to a place where they just don't like what Is happening. So they're reaching out for some reason. They've allowed an implementer to come into their world somehow, some way. Sometimes that's via the integrator or some other people on

their leadership team. Sometimes it's themselves, right? ⁓ but typically when they've gotten to this place, they're they're basically saying, I need help. Whatever I'm doing isn't working. So so that usually isn't ⁓ an argument, right? But once they start to see some Things that make them uncomfortable. And it starts to feel restrictive or straitjackety. That's when the pushback happens. And yes, visionaries will sabotage themselves if they basically view vis ⁓ EOS as for everyone else and not themselves. That that'll never work. They have to be a part of it, just like everyone else on the journey. They have to be bought in and sold and committed to the process. So if they come in and they say, hey, I'm bringing EOS for all you guys, that won't work. So they'll sabotage the results and they'll sabotage ⁓ the journey if they're not bought in. Sure. How do you tell if EOS is not a right fit? Meaning the the CEO is like, nope, I'm here. ⁓ I'm part of it. I wanna be, I wanna do this, I see all the benefits. But all of a sudden you're working with somebody and you're like, man, this how do you know what's the smoke that you smell? That this is not a good fit for a company. Yeah. I mean, I I've seen several examples, and maybe in the next session we could talk more about this. But I've seen several examples where, you know, one of the things we do to determine whether or not EOS is right for the client and whether or not we are right for each other as an implementer, as far as a good fit, right? We talked earlier about visionaries and integrators have to fit well together. Well, implementers and companies have to be a good fit. So when we present EOS, we're presenting the tools to see if the tools are right for them. And we're presenting and facilitating and demonstrating our competence and our style to make sure that we fit one another. And there have been times and the meeting that we're I'm referring to is called the 90-minute meeting. It's basically a 90-minute workshop just to kind of feel each other out. And there have been times in that session where I start to sense, ⁓ boy, I don't think this is going to be a good fit. It could be EOS isn't a good fit for them because I could just feel all the resistance and the vitriol and the heat coming out of the room. Or I'm not a good fit for them personality-wise. You know, I I often declare things like, hey, this is just me. What you see is what you get. My penmanship stinks. My spelling is getting worse by the minute. And I'm a self-deprecating, you know, funny. I like to have lightheartedness in the room. You know, never, you know, we're gonna do serious work, but we're we're never taking ourselves too seriously. And so I want them to know who I am and how I'm gonna show up. And this isn't just me as selling myself that you know what they see is what they get kind of thing. And then I also say things like, and if you if people are in this room that have high ego and if they're the smartest people in the room, please don't pick me. I I don't do well with that. I'm just I don't respond well. It doesn't it it sets me off and I'm not going to do good work for you and with you. So that's a really key thing is to recognize that, right? So that's the personality part of it. But back to the system part of it, how do how do I know? There have been times where I've seen members of the leadership team, you know, in that 90 minute meeting, it's obvious that they're not buying in. They don't believe it's needed. They believe everything they're doing is just fine. And so you can start to smoke out in that moment whether or not it's going to go well. And I've had a couple of clients push forward despite feeling like that, either me pointing it out or them sensing it. We get started and within a session or two, it falls apart, like immediately, because the leadership team is not buying in. They're not doing the work. They don't think it's necessary. They don't think it they have a problem. They think whatever they're doing is working just fine. And that can that can happen real quick. So for me, thankfully the journey for me has been like this. When I have clients that stay the course and stay committed past the first three or four sessions, then they stay for a long time. That's not my goal. My goal is to teach you everything I've got in EOS in the first two to three years at most. And then You're off and running on your own and you only stay with me because you want to, not because you need to. Our goal is to not get our hooks in and keep you as clients for life. We're trying to create independence, not dependence. But what I've seen is clients that can hang in there for the first three or four tougher sessions where there's more homework and it's all new, they can get past those first three or four sessions, then they see the benefit, they see the beauty, they see the results, and they stick with it. But yes, many times I've smoked out in those early sessions that the team's not buying in, the leader or leader, the entire leadership team isn't buying in, and it doesn't really go very well. All right. So, Handy, thank you for explaining all of that. I think one of the things that I would like to talk about is that phrase delegate and elevate. I know that's something that you believe in. So what should be the first thing a CEO should be thinking about when it comes to EO bus and thinking about that idea of delegating and elevating? Well, and I need to give credit to Dan Sullivan from Strategic Coach. You know, he's the one who actually coined that phrase. And so we're we basically believe that people have unique abilities. And so all we're trying to do is elevate them to those unique abilities, what they were put on this earth to do, their God-given talents, and what they absolutely love to do. So we have this tool called the Delegate and Elevate tool. It's four quadrants, if you can picture that in your mind. And the first two quadrants go like this. In

the upper left hand quadrant, we're talking about things that you love to do and are great at doing, right? It's just your your sweet spot. You're in the zone, right? And right next to it on the upper right hand corner is things that you're good at and like to do. So who wouldn't want to live in those two squares? Things you're great at and love to do, things you're good at and like to do. What we're trying to do is get you to stay in those two squares. So elevate yourself to do good work in those two squares and delegate. The lower two squares. The lower two squares go like this. In the lower left hand corner, we're talking about things that you're good at, but you just don't like to do. So who wants that? Right? So is there a way for you to find someone in your business? And in doing so, you're going to be elevating them, right? You're training them, you're showing them the possibilities, you're helping them grow in their career, and you're freeing yourself up of work that you don't really particularly care for, enjoy, and it doesn't fill your cup. And then in the lower, right hand corner is the worst square of all. It's stuff that you suck at, quite honestly, and you're not very good at. So why should why do that at all? Right. So find, find a different home for that. So it's think two, four squares. You want to live in the first two upper ones. You want to delegate the lower two lower ones. That makes sense. ⁓ how do you get leaders to finally let go? Because sometimes it's not about I enjoy it or I'm even good at it. It's a control issue. Absolutely. Yep. Well, one of the biggest encouragement is, you know, how are you going to scale your business if you're not willing to let go? And it we talk about this all the time. It's in the book Traction. Talk about talks about letting go of the vine. Are you willing to let go of the vine? We we we we bring this topic up over and over again because you're never going to do well. If you don't let go of the vine. Think of Tarzan swinging through the jungle if you're old enough to remember that, right? He had to go from vine to vine to vine. If you held on to the vine, he wasn't going to make any progress, right? He had to let go of one and grab the other one. And so why don't we let go of the vine? It's typically driven by two things. One, ego, right? This is what I do. And I'm not just talking about visionaries, right? This plays out everywhere throughout the whole organization. The whole leadership team has to do this, not just the visionaries. So one, ego. ⁓ why am I, you know, why am I gonna let that go? It's gonna diminish what I do around here. People will think less of me. It's how I've ⁓ derived value, you know, all those kinds of things can get in the way. What will they think of me if I let go of that? And then the other is fear. Like they're not gonna do it as well. Or or my ⁓ I have not trained them, or I don't have a person there to to hand it to at all. So You know, there's a fear of letting go because there's no one there or no one qualified there. That uncovers a different issue called, ⁓ why? Is there a a GWC issue for the person you should be delegating these things to? Helps us smoke out the issue and address that. Right. So you have to ask yourself, am I going to be able to grow this business while I f hang on firmly to the vine? Or am I willing to let go of the vine so I can scale and so I can. elevate myself to my unique abilities and let go of my ego and let go of my fear. Yeah, that's his really good points. And and we talk about this, I know obviously in our coaching session, but you read the book traction, even Rocket Fuel ⁓ touch it touches on the importance of letting it go and letting somebody else grab it. My biggest question, and I'm going to push back as I said I would, is but you already answered it. You got to have the right people who can grab the vine from you And actually I say make it better than the way you had it before when you were doing it, not with your best strengths, right? Because if you don't have that right person, it can be a problem. And going back to what we talked earlier, the the visionary and the integrator are going to have two different styles. And I ran into it at CCB, where Logan, love Logan, but he and I are polar opposites in how we get things done. And so I ask a lot of questions. He doesn't. He believes in letting people say where they're at, commit to what they need to do. And he does an unbelievable job of following up with them. ⁓ I'm like, ⁓ I got like a hundred questions here. And, you know, and that's where we just have two different styles. So when I would meet with him as the visionary, I'd be like, hey, did you ask this? Did you ask this? And he's like, No. And I'm like, well, why not? he didn't say it rude. He just was like, No, I Patrick, I don't think like that. And I'm like, well, Logan. I don't know what to say because if we don't ask questions, how do we know we're gonna get the right results? Right. And so how do you handle that? Because as an owner and as a CEO and a visionary, I have a hard time letting go if I don't feel like people are gonna be able to ask the right questions. I need to feel peace. Yeah. Well, again, you're gonna hear a lot of axioms and idioms and all that. I mean, I'm a big believer in, you know, ⁓ Ronald Reagan, ⁓ trust and trust but verify. ⁓ a big believer and hire the best and the brightest and get out of their way. show them what you're you want to get done. You don't need that them to do it exactly your way. Empower them, enable them, give them the tools, be a good leader, be a good manager, all those principles, and then let them be willing to let them arrive at the same destination that you want to arrive at, but just doing it differently. And it's no there's no bad or good, you know, there's no right or wrong. It's just different. And so a visionary has to just accept that ⁓ I'm I'm still gonna measure on the results. That's the

ultimate ⁓ moment of truth, right? ⁓ the results matter. And so how we get there isn't as important as who we work with and what we want them to get done. The how you have to be willing to let them get there on their own. If not, you're gonna be at the you know, at the Center point of all decision making, and that that's going to have some limitations. You're going to become the bottleneck. You're going to work harder than you want. People are going to become frustrated, especially competent people who might look at you and say, I thought you hired me because of my experience and my skill set. Can't you let me do things my way? Now, again, that doesn't mean that critical things don't get a voice in the room or that you don't get to intervene or ask really important questions at the right time. That does this is not intended to say visionary. You don't belong in your business anymore. We'll let you know how it goes. No, that's not at all what it's intended. It's there are absolute critical situations where a visionary or a leader has to be involved, but that should be the exception. The rule should be like, hey, ⁓ it's very clear what the seat entails, what the expectations and the measured results of the seat are. I will hold you to account for those deliverables. But I'm going to let you do it your way and I won't feel the need to micromanage you along the way. Okay. Good answers. Real good things for me to think about and for anybody listening. Yeah. People bust you up on one more thing. So one more thing, I'm going to bust you up. So you said it doesn't matter how. Okay. So I want to take everyone first class. Not my money. Yeah. Well you say to the person, if you don't have to care about the how, couldn't they just blow through a budget and just do it whatever they want to do? But that's the key word right there. There's a budget. So no, you can't blow through a budget. And we have guardrails, right? If you think about all the things we've touched on so far today, could think of it as an ecosystem. And and the core values are part of that ecosystem. So doing the right thing or or ⁓ being good with money or being responsible, all those words somehow typically wind find their way into a company's core values. And so you'd ask yourself, do you think this aligns with our core values? For you know, taking everybody first class, blah, blah, blah. I mean They they almost those conversations almost don't even take place because everyone knows the guardrails the the that we've agreed to live within. So I I most people aren't just gonna go wild and do something that silly. But that that happens. That happens. And again, we have to make sure we have at least some guardrails in place that people can't bankrupt the company or make commitments on behalf of the president or the owner without of of major consequence without their say. We have to have those guardrails. Absolutely. Yeah. And I would say if people are doing that, you do have the wrong people right away, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So your leadership team is critical. You're, you know, if you're the visionary, you gotta have that integrator. If you're the integrator, you gotta have a visionary. ⁓ I did try to do both seats for a while when I was president. And yeah, I was in a lot of meetings, but I definitely wasn't working on the business. I was working in the business. And so you know, delegating and elevating is super critical for a company's growth, as you said. But you got to have the right people and you got to have good communication and you got to have the right metrics. So I think EOS does all of those things, which is why we're doing it. ⁓ and it isn't easy. It is work. It does take a while to figure it out. One of the fun things, though, now that I, you know, we got all hot and bothered on those questions, and I'm not mad. I'm just more of helping people understand that this is a process that you have to be willing to work through. Even myself, I've had to work through it and be humble to be like, hey, some things we did wrong the first time. A lot of things we did wrong. Now let's see if we can do it right following the system. ⁓ so it it is a process. So I don't want anybody out there to get frustrated, but it it will create disruption. ⁓ for yourself, if you're the visionary, it could create disruption in the company because people are like, what the heck is this this thing that we have to follow? But I promise you, we have seen results and it has bring ⁓ community and unity together when we are doing the same thing, not just everyone going after. ⁓ their own goals, right? It's a company goals, comp company rocks. It does help. But one of the fun things that you brought to EOS could because it sounds so so many things to think about, processes, is these animals that I did not expect when we joined EOS. Can you talk about the the EOS animals, the stuffed animals that you ⁓ or cushy things, whatever you want to Yeah, absolutely. Well, I will say not not every EOS implementer does what I do with these animals. ⁓ we we definitely ⁓ all of us ⁓ will share the concepts behind these animals, but not everyone gives a gift box to my clients for them to take back to their offices and use them in their meeting room. But let me walk you through what these five animals are all about. There's an elephant, there's a squirrel, there's a bull, there's a horse, and there's a cow. And each has its own meaning. And the point of it is think of it like playing football and the referee throws a flag, right? The flag s stops play, catches everyone's attention, and we have to address the violation, right? And so all all that's what these animals represent is a violation of something that we want to call out, but but these soft sided animals, we toss them around in the room, we have them right in the middle of the conference room, are just a lighthearted way of entering into the danger, if you will. ⁓ because some people are fearful.

They're fearful, especially when you have strong leaders in the room, they're fearful of bringing something up that's gonna kind of ruin the moment, right? ⁓ but someone's got to be paying attention. Multiple people need to be be paying attention, but we need at least one person who's going to call out the behavior that is happening in the moment. And each one of these animals represents a behavior. So let's take the easy one, right? The squirrel. It simply says, hey, we are completely squirreling right now. We're We're off topic, we're on a tangent. Let's get this back to the matter at hand. And that could be the issue that you're trying to process or the information you're sharing or whatever it is. So teams inevitably, especially strong teams, right? Strong opinionated teams, they're gonna start squirreling right away. Start talking about something that has nothing to do with the original ⁓ topic at hand. And so just let's call it out. We're squirreling. Two, the cow. The cow represents The greater good, no sacred cows. We are all about the greater good. And so everything is on the table: processes, employees, customers, facilities, ⁓ whatever is on the table. We are always going to think about what's the most important thing for the business and the greater good, and nothing is sacred, and there are no sacred cows, and we're willing to address everything. Third animal is the bull, right? And it has two meanings. One, I smell BS, right? I think someone is trying to pull pull one over on us. Or don't be a bully, right? You're just hammering your point and you're you're kind of like intimidating the room because of your strong personality. So don't be a bully, right? The fourth one is horse. ⁓ don't beat a dead horse, right? Back to that issues processing that we talked about earlier. When there's no more information being new information being introduced, and now you're repeating yourself, you're just Pounding the same topic over and over again, you're beating a dead horse. Move on, your point has been made. And the last one is the elephant. And this has to do with addressing the elephant in the room. Like we all know what the issue is, but for whatever reason, we're afraid, no one is saying it. We can feel it. We all know it. I'm going to throw the elephant and I'm going to say, hey, there's an elephant in the room here. Sally's not competent at her job. She needs to go. Or Sally's not the right person. She's not a core values fit. Whatever it is, people have danced around it time and time again. It's the elephant in the room. Someone throws the elephant and says, Hey, can we address the elephant in the room right now? And that's what those five animals represent. I I bring them to every session. I pass them around for people to pick the animal that they're going to be responsible for, calling out. And we have great sessions as a result of it. And more animals are used, ⁓ the some animals I should say are used more often than not, like the elephant in the room and the squirrel are pretty prevalent. ⁓ but ⁓ otherwise all five animals find their way into that zoo of a business ⁓ pretty regularly. I love it. I love it. And ⁓ we've used them in our two day for sure with you. ⁓ I appreciate you gave us a box. We need to do a better job. We don't use those in our ⁓ level ten meetings, we should. But ⁓ we definitely have used them. And then number two, Logan said it was a donkey and he always gave it to me, not a horse. That's not nice, Logan. That's something you're gonna have to take up with Logan. Yeah. Apparently so, Hanny. Thank you for helping me understand it's a horse. Okay. So we're at the final part of the show. I call it landing the plane. ⁓ we have five pillars at IOL. It's, you know, faith, family, foundation, which is also a legacy that you leave behind. ⁓ work and leadership. What do those mean to you personally in your life? Well, I mean, they certainly mean the world to me. ⁓ Starting with faith, right? You know, I I became a believer. ⁓ I I I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior thirty-one years ago, ⁓ this year. So thirty-one I was thirty-one years old at the time. I'll be sixty-two this year, so half my life. I I have have now been a a child of God's and it's driven me throughout my entire business career. And ⁓ my family life has changed tremendously as a result, and so faith is is You know, of the of the five pillars, the most important to me, it drives everything and dri drives my decision and my behavior. I love that. And then, you know, as far as, you know, the rest, I mean, they're they're they're essential to me. ⁓ the one thing that I reflected on when when I when you asked me that question is if I could if I could do it all over again, ⁓ the one that I feel like I really messed up ⁓ in my career is is my work life balance. I sacrificed a lot in terms of my family. And I missed a lot of sports and I missed a lot of important events and all in the name of, you know, dad's working hard and setting a good example and hey kids, you know, these vacations don't get paid for by not, you know, working hard. And you know, ⁓ I I I missed out on too many moments. So I if I had to do it all over again I I would have prioritized a little better and found that balance. But ⁓ Thank you for being so vulnerable and honest about that, honey. Thank you. But yeah, I think we all struggle with that. I know I do. ⁓ our identity gets wrapped up into thinking as long as I can hit my goals, I can provide for my family and and and feel that good feeling of right, I'm winning. Then you start to make sacrifices and cut corners of, ⁓ they'll understand dinner's not that important. ⁓ you know, there's plenty of baseball games and football games and basketball games to go to, or it's just a band concert. You know, they don't even know I'm gonna be there, right? You know, whatever it is, you start to compromise, you know, with it. And that's why we talk about these five pillars. Because you

can compromise on all of them ⁓ at different times. You could go all family in and cut corners on actually doing a good job at work, you know? And so it is not easy having a balance. So I appreciate your honest. And ⁓ you know, it is it's hard. It really is hard. But that's why we're doing this. One, we want people to educate educated. This is what the segments have been about, which is understanding EOS. So hopefully that gives them a chance to get a life or a work-life balance because If you're doing it all in your own strength, you're going to fail. If you're not following into the Lord's plans, you're not doing the right things. And if you're not just, you know, helping elevate and delegate and get people a chance to help you, you will burn out. And we don't want that for anybody. So, you know, as we're here asking questions, you know, what is the best thing that you would say to somebody who might have heard these two segments about EOS? They've listened to you, Hanny. What would you say to the business owner that is still like, ⁓ man, where do I even start? Well, I would start with reading a book, ⁓ as simple as that or listen to an audio of the book. ⁓ there are two books that I would recommend. One is called Traction. That's more of a business oriented ⁓ way that that it's written, ⁓ if that's if that's your jam. ⁓ the other is get a grip. And that's more of a fable, right? Storytelling. And but both are ⁓ talking about the the very concepts we've talked about today, helping owners and business leaders and leadership teams get more of what they want out of their business. you know, ⁓ helping them get the right things done, reduce the chaos, remove the chaos, sleep better at night, and achieve their wildest dreams. And so I would start with finding a hard copy or reach out to me and I'll get you one. Or you know, download it somewhere, ⁓ what whichever flavor of that book version ⁓ you fancy. Start with that. And ⁓ especially, especially the people ⁓ chapter, because 80% of our issues have to do with people, and this has nothing to do with bad people, good people. It's right people sitting in the right seats. And if we can address that, that solves many, many of your other issues in your business. Start with that. I agree. I agree. And we also ⁓ touched on the book Rocket Fuel. So is that another one that they could read to understand the visionary integrator role as well. Yes. Yes, especially since usually the founder who is the visionary, you know, he's trying to sit in that integrator seat and not loving it and not doing a great job at it. It's not, again, not bad or good. It's just not their wiring. So that's where a visionary might read a book like Rocket Fuel and go, Wow, you know what I need? I I'm Batman. I need a Robin. That's all it is. A co pilot, a wingman. ⁓ where this person, again, you They'll have to define what they truly want because, you know, there are integrators that just absolutely follow ⁓ all orders, and there are

integrators that are gonna push back and and sharpen ⁓ the visionary's ⁓ thinking. And you know, that doesn't always work. So you have to make sure you find your puzzle piece that fits in nicely. Because finding finding another visionary isn't gonna be good. And finding too rigid of an integrator isn't gonna be good. So you have to find a good mate, just like And and I love that. And I will tell you, if you read the book Traction, you'll hear this. It there isn't a perfect fit instantly. You might need to go through a couple different integrators for the it to be a good match. So ⁓ apparently, you know, it's not normal to just hit it right out of the gate and get that perfect fit. So I know we were working on it. You know, Logan's making his transition out to go do his own thing of becoming an EOS implementer. ⁓ we have now John coming in and these are two very different styles, but two same position of being the integratorslash president. So it's gonna be a quite the story that I'm sure we're gonna continue to be sharing with all of you listening. But Hanny, you have been awesome today. How do people get in touch with you who want to know more about EOS? You can reach out to me via email at hanny.malik at EOSworldwide.com. That's H A N I dot M-A-L-E-K at EOSworldwide dot com. Or you can text me at 309-267-3046. Either way works for me. I'd be happy to help you out. And again, this isn't about trying to convince you EOS is for you. I'll just listen to your story and point you in the right direction. And that might be as simple as read a book. ⁓ or it could be, hey, why don't I come in and meet with you and your leadership team to diagnose where you're at? No high pressure sales. Love that. So, Hanny, personally, I respect you so much. You have done an incredible job ⁓ today on the interview. But just knowing you since June of last year, where we had a mutual friend introduce us and said, you really should meet Hanny. ⁓ it has been a joy just to call you a friend, but you're also my my coach, my implementer, helping me make sure we do this. You've been so patient as I've had so many questions. I don't know if I have more questions than most visionary. Probably I do, but you have been extremely kind to me. ⁓ and I just hope that if you're out there listening, having somebody help you walk through this is critical. I tried doing it on my own. I failed miserably. ⁓ we went with the wrong ⁓ integrator to ⁓ implementer to start with, ⁓ wasn't officially EOS, ⁓ did not go perfect. ⁓ a lot of bumps. Now we're finally getting on track. So I want to encourage you, reach out to Hanny. He's a great guy. You are awesome. I just want to say thank you for being on today. You did an amazing job. Thank you, Patrick. Thank you for having me on and ⁓ right back at you. The relationship we have formed in a very short period of time has been special and I look forward to whether we continue on our EOS journey together or not, I look forward to continuing to foster our relationship. You've been awesome. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you. Yeah, appreciate you. Okay, it's that time of the show where we do takeaways and action items. So here's the takeaways. You can't scale until you let go. Delegate and elevate. Most leaders know they should delegate, but they don't. Why? Ego and fear. Ego is this is what I do. This is where I bring value. And the fear, they don't want to do it as well as me. But holding on that only bottlenecks your whole organization and caps your company's growth. So the action item is this. Complete a delegate and elevate exercise. Make four columns. Love and great at, like, good at, good at, but don't like, not good, and don't like. Identify at least one task this week in your bottom two boxes to delegate. And ask yourself daily, am I working in my unique ability or just holding on to the vine? Number two, structure isn't a straight jacket. It's what gives you freedom. Okay, the EOS can feel rigid to some visionaries like me, but it's not meant to restrict you. It's meant to protect and scale you. The fundamental elements of meetings, rocks, scorecards, and accountability, these are non-negotiables because they drive results. Leaders can sabotage EOS when they treat it as for the team instead of committing it to themselves. Okay, action items. Ask yourself honestly, where am I restricting structure? Where am I resisting the opportunity to grow? Commit a one non-negotiable discipline, like a weekly 10 meeting, a scorecard review, a rock tracking. As CEO, model it by saying, this isn't for just you guys. This is for all of us, starting with me. Number three, great meetings solve problems. They don't just talk about them. IDS it. So most teams waste time because they discuss everything but solve nothing. EOS fixes that with IDS, which is identify, discuss, and solve. The key shift if stop talking about long stories and things that don't matter. Get clarity, define real issues in one sentence, move quickly to a decision or a next action. In the same issues keep coming up, then it's not resolved. You need to get resolved, get it over, move on. Action items in your next meeting enforce this rule. Every issue must be started in one sentence, max. Assign somebody to call it out. We're not solving. Let's move this to a discussion or a decision. Number three, track repeat issues and ask, did we solve the root problem or just talk about it? Okay. Leadership reflects. And this is up to you to believe this or not. If you want a strong opportunity to grow your business, then the hardest part of EOS isn't the system. This is the truth. It's the leader. It's letting go. It's committing. It's being willing to challenge and change yourself first. Man, that is where it gets real. Hanny, I appreciate you and thank you for leaning into this with me because I know I wasn't holding back and neither were you. And that's exactly what leaders need to do together. Because the truth is, the challenge with EOS isn't the tools. It's not the meetings, it's not even the system. It's us. It's our need for control. It's our fear of letting go. It's our belief that we can't do it better and faster or the right way. And the reality is the mindset might have gotten us here, but it's not what's going to get us where we need to go next. What hit me in this conversation is pretty simple, but it doesn't mean it's easy. If I don't delegate, I become the bottleneck. If I don't commit, the team won't buy in. If I don't change, nothing in the business changes. And that's the part that I don't like to omit as a leader, and maybe you too. EOS isn't putting a straitjacket on us. It's forcing us to grow into leadership and to help our business actually get to where it needs to go. And yeah, it's uncomfortable. Yeah, it creates friction. And you better believe it challenges us in the way that we've always done things. But that's where growth happens. So if you're listening right now and you're feeling that tension, good. Lean into it. Don't run from it. Because on the other side of that discomfort, Is a business that's not dependent on you for everything. It's a team that's aligned and accountable and a life where you're actually doing the things you love with the people you love. And that's what it's really about. Hanny, thank you. Not just for today, not just for the last episode, but for walking with me through this journey. You've challenged me, you've pushed me, and you've even helped me see the things I couldn't see on my own. And for everyone listening, If you take one thing away from part two, let it be this. The system will only work if you do. Well, we will see you next time, but always remember our core belief is this: no one drifts into excellence. You are not alone. You are loved by us and by God. From everyone at IOL, thank you for listening. Hey leader, thank you for listening to today's episode. If you really liked it, please consider doing these four things. Number one, share the podcast with somebody. Take it from your app, send it over to them, or send it through email, or heck, give them a call, they might pick up. 2. Subscribe to the podcast so you can get notified when we drop a new episode. 3. Leave us a review so that others can hear what you have learned from listening. And fourth, sign up on our newsletter by going to the IOL website, which is impactofleadership.com. Again, that is impactofleadership.com. All right, from all of us at the Impact of Leadership, also known as IOL, thank you for listening. And always remember, no one drifts into excellence.