บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Boundaries First

a whippet. 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.639 And where I live, hunting is really big. 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:22.560 So we had Saluki's and Ibethan hounds as well that we did open field coursing and hunting with jackrabbits and stuff like that. 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:27.920 So I did some hunting stuff with her, and then I was like, okay, like I kind of want another dog. 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:36.480 So she got me another whippet, and I got into rally and obedience and kind of the AKC world with him, and I really liked it. 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:41.040 And then I was, yeah, junior in high school, and she was like, Oh, like I'm getting a Malinois. 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.600 And she went and got him, and I said, Oh, thanks for the new dog. 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:44.319 I stole him. 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:45.920 This is mine now, yeah. 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:46.240 Yeah. 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:48.720 And he is, yeah, he's about 10 now. 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:54.319 And yeah, he was my first trial dog and kind of just started my career in like love for dogs. 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:54.959 Wait, who is that? 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:56.160 Varro, you guys haven't met him. 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:56.959 Okay, okay. 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:58.240 Yeah, he stays home. 00:04:58.399 --> 00:04:58.720 Okay. 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:04.879 Um, but through all that, like going to the workshops every weekend, like my teachers would ask. 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:09.519 And then they had just fired the other dog trainer that was running the program because they didn't love her. 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:13.600 And my teacher was like, Hey, like, right after you graduate, do you want to run the program? 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:23.199 And I was like, sure, I don't know what I'm doing, but yeah, run my peers basically through three days a week of dog training with dogs that I don't know nothing about and they're shelter dogs. 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:27.600 And that really made me love teaching people dog training. 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:28.240 Okay. 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:29.519 That's cool. 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:35.360 And what was something that you learned doing that versus working for your mom? 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:41.199 I mean, this through the shelter, like obviously you're getting a bunch of different types of dogs, right? 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:48.160 So I had dogs in my class that had been in two, three, four previous classes with the other trainer who made no progress. 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:57.519 And so one, this kind of gave me an opportunity to run people through how I would want to run a program or like teach people and like learning how to teach people. 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:04.480 Cause obviously I can watch my mom do it all day long, but you actually stand in front of someone and you're like, oh wait, like I'm by myself and I have to run someone through this. 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:05.680 Much different. 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:06.079 Yeah. 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:12.480 Um, and then yeah, just learning how to teach people dog training was kind of a learning curve at first. 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:16.079 But then I was like, oh wait, like you people don't really know what you're doing. 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:18.160 I don't really know what I'm doing, so we'll figure it out together. 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:18.480 Yeah. 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:29.120 And it was nice to see dogs that have failed out of or have like been in the shelter for two years that have gone through this program four, six times, make like huge strides with the same kids. 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:30.560 So like that was really cool for me. 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.199 You're like, I do actually know what I'm doing. 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:34.000 Literally. 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:38.879 And then after like I did that program for three semesters. 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:43.439 The third semester, I I remember driving home with my mom and I was like, I want to be a dog trainer. 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:47.360 And at that time, I was already going over to the Michael Ellis school. 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:52.000 So my first mom is from Michael and was already kind of training for Mondial Ring. 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:56.079 And he knew my mom for many years before that. 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:59.759 And he was like, Why doesn't she come through the immersion program? 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:07.839 Which, if you don't know, was a four-month, four and a half month program for dog trainers or aspiring dog trainers where we learned kind of all the basic stuff. 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:09.839 And I was like, okay, sweet, sweet. 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:13.279 So packed up my life and moved to Santa Rosa for four and a half months. 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:15.199 And yeah, rest is history. 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:16.240 Hell yeah. 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:18.560 When did you get out of that? 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:21.439 I think it was fall of 2019. 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:22.240 Okay. 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.680 And then did you go back to your mom's business and work for that? 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:26.160 Yeah. 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.639 So I stayed at the school for about another four and a half months. 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:31.600 I interned after that and then went home. 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:41.920 And then I actually like was only home for a couple of months, and then I moved to Temecula for a year and worked with a trainer there, Francois Massart, who's lovely, loved working for him. 00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:48.319 Then I went back home and kind of picked up on my mom's business and helped her out because she wanted to kind of slow things down. 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:52.720 So I kind of picked up with the business end of the board and trains and the lessons and all that. 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:53.439 Nice. 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:53.839 Yeah. 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:56.319 You are very experienced. 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:01.920 Yeah, I've been around

the block for only being 26 a couple of times, but yeah. 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:02.560 Yeah. 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:22.800 So I wanted to bring you on for this episode because this is a conversation that we have had like quite a few times, but I recently had an experience that was a nice little reminder of why we set boundaries as dog trainers in like the clients that we work with and the dogs that we work with. 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:25.680 I recently had somebody call me. 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:27.600 Uh, they were struggling with their dog. 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:29.120 The dog was resource guarding. 00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:32.240 The dog had actually bitten the owner. 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:35.200 And at the time, this was the first time I talked to this person. 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.559 I was like, okay, we gotta get you in for training right away. 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.799 But he wasn't doing any sort of structure with the dog. 00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:47.840 Like the resource guarding dog is like sleeping on the couch and the dog's not crate trained. 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:49.919 Like there's zero boundaries in the home. 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:51.200 So I was like, you know what? 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:53.440 Come for a consultation at the facility. 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:59.519 If you do group classes, we're at least gonna like help you with leash handling and you know, can give you some guidance on that. 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:00.639 And management. 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:02.159 Management, yeah, exactly. 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:07.120 So at the time I was like, okay, we can definitely help you with where you're at with this dog. 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:08.720 You don't have to do a board and train. 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:10.639 He's like, I can't, I can't afford a board and train. 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:11.519 I'm like, okay. 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:15.840 And then I get a phone call and the behavior has progressed. 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:22.159 So he tells me, Okay, well, you know, the dog bit me again, and the dog bit my friend. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:24.000 Okay, what happened? 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:41.840 Well, the dog was on the couch sitting in between us, and my friend was petting his paws, and he started to growl, so we kind of moved away, and then I tried to put him into the kitchen behind the baby gate, and he didn't want to do that, so he growled and nipped at me, and it just progressed from there. 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:50.320 And I was on the phone with this person, and I was like, hey, this is a very serious dog, you have to take this seriously, you need to do a board and train. 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:56.320 This dog already has two bites under its sleeve, plus, you know, you got him as a rescue. 00:09:56.399 --> 00:09:58.639 He's probably bitten other people before. 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:19.519 And this person was just not really taking it seriously, you know, and I had previously told him, like, you have to set boundaries with this dog, you know, this dog is pushing you around and it's working, and you, you know, we need to set boundaries so that this does not happen again. 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:46.399 And I fell back into, I would say, the version of myself who would take on pretty much every single dog because part of me has this mentality of like, okay, if I have to help you, you know, a bit of like savior complex of like, if I don't help you, you're gonna get mauled by this dog, you know, and like you're gonna go to some force-free person who is not gonna do anything for you. 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:53.120 So I kind of like jumped into that mode of like, okay, you need to, you know, you need to come for a consult right away. 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:57.919 And then he's like, Oh well, you know, there's traffic. 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:03.600 And I just I like feel my blood boiling while I'm on the phone call with this person. 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:08.080 I'm like, your dog just bit somebody and you are not taking this seriously. 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:15.679 And I'm standing there like explaining it to our friends, and you know, of course, Shane is like, fuck that person. 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:16.960 Don't take that person. 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.480 He bit someone and sent them to the hospital. 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:23.360 Yeah, and and then I'm like, you're right. 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:37.840 Like, why, you know, why am I sitting here gonna take this person who I know is already not going to take this seriously and isn't my ideal client, you know? 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:47.039 And I know that you have so much experience working with clients, and we just, you know, talked about you had to fire somebody like very early on. 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:49.679 You saw your mom had to do that when you were like 16 years old. 00:11:49.840 --> 00:12:00.559 Yeah, so it was a mastiff, um, had bitten multiple people, and they came in like for the consultation, and my mom was like, Hey, like I was 15 or 16 at the time. 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:01.679 She's like, You go in this room. 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:03.600 Like, I don't trust this dog or these people. 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:08.480 So I'm like looking through the little window because I want to see what's going on. 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:14.000 And they come in the room and the dog's like very clearly whalinging, not happy to be there. 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:17.679 And they're like, Oh, hi, and like let the dog run up to my mom. 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:21.679 And she's like stepping back and they're like letting this big dog drag them around. 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:27.759 And they just like drop the leash, and they were like, Oh, well, like he only bites them in not in like this situation. 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:29.519 And my mom's like, What do you mean, not in this situation? 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:31.840 He's never been in this situation, so how do you know? 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:35.360 And they were

like, Well, it's not that bad, it's not that bad. 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:38.559 And so, like, they got to talking and he had bit like four people, yeah. 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:40.799 And they were like, We want to do a boredom train. 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:45.360 I was like, Okay, like just so you know, I can't turn Cujo into Lassie. 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:47.440 Like, that's just not feasible. 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:50.720 But I can we can put some management tools in place and yada yada yada. 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:53.120 And they were like, Okay, it sounds good. 00:12:53.200 --> 00:13:00.639 And I was like, okay, when you come to drop him off for the boredom train, like he has to have a muzzle on, and like showed them how to put, they had brought the muzzle to the console room. 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.840 So we showed them how to put it on, showed them how to put the safety on, all that. 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:10.480 Come to the console, open up the back of their truck, and dog just like jumps out, no leash, no muzzle, no nothing. 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:13.279 And they were like, Oh, well, we just couldn't figure it out. 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:15.120 So, like, we were just hoping you could do it. 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:19.360 And I was like, my one's like, no, like your dog won't let me touch him. 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:23.600 So we get the muzzle on, she brings the dog in the house, like two days later. 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:28.000 They text her, it's like, oh, I hope Cujo, and I'm just gonna call him Kujo because I don't remember his name. 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:29.600 Yeah, I hope Cujo's doing well. 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:38.080 Just so you know, he really likes sleeping in the bed with the person who's uh training with him or like working with him because he like that's how he builds relationships. 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:39.200 Diabolical. 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:40.320 That is diabolical. 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:53.519 And my mom was like, you need to come get your dog because one, I'm putting myself, my two children, my husband, all of my dogs in danger of your dog mauling them if like management fails or whatever it may be. 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:59.360 And you guys obviously aren't taking this seriously of like your dog truly wants to hurt someone. 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:05.120 So they came, they picked up the dog, and like two months later we heard that he got euthanized because he bit another person. 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:05.600 Yeah. 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:06.159 Yeah. 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:07.039 Yeah. 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:11.440 And that is like one of my firm boundaries now. 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:21.600 But previously, I would say, like, when I was a little bit younger, and I don't even, it wasn't necessarily coming from a place of like me being naive. 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:31.200 Like, I knew that not everybody was gonna be a good fit for reasons like that, but it was I wanted to help them, you know. 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:42.480 I was like, I feel like I'm the only person who can really help you because you're gonna go to somebody else and they're gonna be like, oh, it's gonna be$10,000 for your dog to like rot in a crate for an eight-week board and train. 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:46.240 And, you know, like I really, really wanted to help these dogs. 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:58.559 And it was only through experience with getting burned by these types of people and dogs and you know, situations that I was like, you can't help these people. 00:14:58.720 --> 00:14:59.519 No, you can't. 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:09.279 And it was especially hard for us because like I live in a town of 4,000 people, it's only me and like one recent-ish purely positive trainer that is in the area. 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:15.039 And I always felt like I had to try because who else are they gonna go to? 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.480 Yeah, like the dogs are going to go. 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:18.480 I'm literally this the last hope. 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:18.879 Yeah. 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:19.919 And I've gotten that call. 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:23.759 I've I've gotten the call of, hey, I my dog has a euthanasia appointment in two days. 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:25.919 Like, this is the last option. 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:27.360 Do you think you could help us? 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:39.279 And I've had those conversations of one, either, yes, I can help, but how much your dog is going to be able to live a normal life after that is up to the dog because I don't know the dog in the moment. 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:42.879 And are you guys okay living with like a dog like that? 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:44.559 And every time they're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.679 And I'm like, no, like I'm gonna give you the worst case scenario possible. 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.399 Do you want to live with a dog like this for 10 years? 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:52.799 Because that's what we're looking at. 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:53.360 Yeah. 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:57.360 And I think it's super important to be honest with people about that. 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:04.879 And also, you know, a big like hard stop for me is people who are unwilling to put any sort of boundaries on their dog. 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:08.399 Like, if you don't want to crate train your dog, I I cannot help you. 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:14.960 No, you know, if you're coming to me and you're like, my dog is biting me or biting my child, and I'm like, okay, is your dog crate trained? 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:17.759 And they're like, I would never use a crate. 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:19.759 I'm like, oh my gosh. 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:26.240 And I get some of the people that refuse to crate train but are happy to leave their dogs outside unsupervised for 10, 12 hours a day. 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:26.879 Yeah, don't you? 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:28.480 But I feel like that's because of where you're at. 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:28.960

Yeah. 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:29.519 Yeah. 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:38.720 And I I have not taken people because it is during my consultations, it is one of the first things, like, especially with behavior mods, that I go, okay, like is the dog crate trained? 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:39.279 And they go like, no. 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:41.200 And I'm like, okay, well, like that's gonna have to happen. 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:52.639 And if they go no, I go, like, oh, well, you know, a board and train might not be for you because the dog is crate like here and needs to learn how to be in a crate in order to live in your home safely. 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.000 So maybe I'll recommend you to some people like down south. 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:56.480 Yeah. 00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:59.519 What are some other like hard stops for you? 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:10.799 If I am talking to the person and they are basically like, oh, well, going to the dog park is a must, or I this dog has to be off leash because that's the only way I'm gonna be able to exercise them. 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.319 And it's like a serious dog, that's kind of a no for me. 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.920 If they're like, oh, well, we only we don't have like any time to train the dog. 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.160 I typically have the conversation with them of like, probably not the best dog for you. 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:22.400 Yeah. 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:27.279 Because this dog is gonna require a lot of training and require you guys to manage him a lot. 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:34.240 Uh living in the area that I live, a lot of people just want a dog that they can throw out front or throw out back to go potty and then like go on off-leash hike. 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:34.480 Yeah. 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:42.079 And so I have to have a lot of these conversations of like, if that's your goal, then probably not this dog is correct for you. 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:46.480 Um, and probably not this training because I'm gonna recommend things that you aren't gonna do. 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:47.119 Right. 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:47.680 Right. 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:55.680 I feel like a hard stop for me too is people who aren't willing to make sacrifices for like the betterment of their dog. 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:58.559 Yeah, like they're like, oh no, like the dog has to be off leash. 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:02.319 And you're like, okay, well, sacrifice is that the dog's not gonna be off-leash, but like your dog's gonna be able to live a life. 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:08.079 Yeah, or like, hey, this dog needs to wear a muzzle anytime it is out in public or out of its crate. 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.440 I have uh one dog like that at home that is a client of mine. 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:24.400 And I told them, I said, this dog has bit both of you, both of the people in the home multiple times, has tried to kill their cat multiple times, has tried to bite other people multiple times, has successfully bit

a couple of like mailman people coming in and out of the home. 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:29.039 And I said, This dog has to be muzzled as soon as he comes out of the crate. 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:34.000 Muzzle and on a place bed, because that is the only way that this dog is going to be able to live safely in your home. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:36.079 And they agreed. 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:41.759 This was the dog that I got the call two days prior to the euthanasia, and that dog is still living a very good life. 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:46.880 And they send me pictures of him all the time, muzzle on a place bed or on a long line in the yard. 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:47.359 Yeah. 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:51.119 And those are the people that you're actually able to help. 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:53.200 Those are the people that I'll bend over backwards for. 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:53.519 Yeah. 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:55.279 I I've answered call 2 a.m. 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.440 calls for them because I was like, if they're calling me, like something is amiss. 00:18:59.599 --> 00:18:59.920 Yeah. 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:08.480 And I'm always there for them because I know that they'll do whatever it takes to continue having this dog in their life in a safe way. 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:09.279 Yeah. 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:22.880 And I don't like publicly take on dogs with behavioral or well, no, behavioral issues, yes, but with like a bite record because of most of the time the owners. 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:32.319 And I'm always very realistic with people of like, hey, dogs really hurt people, you know, and unfortunately, I've seen really, really bad things happen. 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:35.359 I've seen people get mauled and their dogs have to get euthanized. 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:39.839 I've seen them kill other dogs before, you know, like dogs in the household. 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:43.440 Like, I don't want anybody to ever have to go through that. 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:52.240 And so I have those tough conversations with clients, and a lot of times I won't take people on, not because of the dog, but because of the owner. 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:58.799 So when I'm doing consultations with people, I'm not even looking at the dog's behavior, right? 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:19.519 Because I'm pretty confident in my abilities to teach the dog and, you know, fix the behaviors or whatever, but I'm not always confident in my ability to change somebody's mind on something like the crate, or even believing that their dog would do something that they don't think the dog is gonna do, you know. 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:25.200 And there have been times when I've had dogs come in for training that I've been like, this dog would be totally fine in a dog trainer's home. 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:25.519 Yeah. 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:39.039 But in an everyday like person who wants to take their dog off leash on the canal and go to the dog park, like this is not, or just walk their dog down the street, like their timing's gonna be off, and this dog is not the right fit. 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:51.440 And I've had to have some serious, like really hard conversations with clients of like, hey, this dog is going to kill a kid if your timing is off, if you mismanage them just for a second. 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:55.920 And yeah, I could live with the dog because I live in management. 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:57.359 I have four intact male dogs. 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.000 Because you have that dog trainer anxiety. 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.160 I am paranoid that will never let anything bad happen. 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:13.759 No, and so I've had those conversations with owners of like, it's not on you necessarily, but it's just like this dog's way too hard for the average person to own, and that's okay. 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.200 Or sometimes people are way too soft for certain dogs 100%. 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:23.680 Yeah, like the client you were just talking about who is totally like, Oh, he's still on the couch after he bit him multiple times. 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.160 But he doesn't even take his dog seriously. 00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:29.839 Like versus like, you gotta acknowledge that this is a gnarly dog. 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:38.000 Yeah, and that's the thing is like the the second he was like, actually, can we do the consultation virtually because traffic is really bad. 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.359 I'm like, I don't Yeah, you're not taking this seriously. 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.160 If you took your dog seriously, you'd send four hours of traffic to get the train. 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:57.920 You would leave immediately, you would call out of work, like, and the thing that scares me so much and why part of me like still wants to help these people is because people like him are walking around the world. 00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.519 Like he's gonna take that. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.039 Dog to the beach. 00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:02.960 He's gonna take him off leash. 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:08.720 And let him off leash, you know, and then be shocked when the dog does something bad. 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:09.200 Yeah. 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:13.920 And then he also won't still won't probably take responsibility and be like, oh, like maybe I should get training. 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:14.559 Yeah. 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:20.160 But it's like you said, like the people, the clients that like really want to take it seriously, like, yeah, you'll go leapstone. 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:20.960 Above and beyond. 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:22.079 I'll go the extra mile. 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:24.480 I have given those people discounts. 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:40.160 I'm like, you'll you can board your dog for free with me, like, because you guys have really gone above and beyond and made sure that this dog is going to live a life, and maybe not the most ideal life for every person from their perspective, but a safe life. 00:22:40.559

--> 00:22:44.960 And also they're willing to change their expectations on what a dog's life looks like. 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:45.599 100%. 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:48.000 That was a hard conversation that I had to have with them. 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:54.640 I was like, this dog, he's either going to be eathanized or he can still live a life. 00:22:54.720 --> 00:23:01.119 You can still take him on walks, but it's gonna be an on-leash muzzle e-collar, and you guys can't take your eyes off of him. 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:06.240 And they were they loved him so much that they were like, Yeah, we are willing to do that, and they still do it to this day. 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:06.640 Yeah. 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:09.519 And that's something that really stood out to me about this person. 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:18.960 I promise I wouldn't normally like blast, I wouldn't blast phone calls that I have online, but I'm like, oh my god, this needs to be a public service announcement. 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:26.480 Um, but he was like very, oh, I have to set boundaries. 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.079 Oh, I have to put them in a crate. 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:36.559 Like you quote, loving dogs is those people scare me more than anybody else. 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:37.599 100%. 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:43.440 Yeah because they allow those dogs to live a life with no boundaries because they feel bad for the dog. 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:49.039 And I find it a lot with dogs that come from uh because I think he got that dog from a rescue situation. 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:54.160 It's like yeah, oh well, the last owner created him, and so I don't want to be like the last owner. 00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:55.680 Yeah, yeah. 00:23:55.839 --> 00:24:01.519 And I just those are the dogs that walk all over people, and then they figure it out that it works, and that's just so scary. 00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:07.039 Yeah, and that dog has been in multiple houses, and I'm sure has done that to multiple families. 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.079 And I I've talked about Gretchen before before. 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:14.799 She's living with uh trainer Katie in Orlando in my Orlando house. 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.880 Um, but Gretchen was my behavioral dog. 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:23.759 She was kind of like my first experience getting a truly aggressive dog. 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:29.839 She was a tiny little shepherd, she's like a muffin-sized shepherd, she's super cute, but definitely got some screws loose. 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:40.000 And she had been into a bunch of different households and have has gotten reps, not being crated, overfed, you know, quote unquote loved. 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:46.319 But it caused her to basically bully every family that she was with and bite people, right? 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.720 She's like, Oh, I don't want to be touched, bite. 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:52.559 Oh, I don't want to be told to get off the couch, bite. 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.079 Like, I can just use aggression to get whatever I want. 00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:01.759 And so all of these people who, you know, love dogs are, oh, we, you know, save these dogs. 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:03.519 I got this dog from a rescue. 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:06.400 He said, you know, I'm willing to do anything. 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:08.400 I love this dog so much. 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:16.640 But as soon as we say, Okay, that dog needs to be crate trained and you need to have a leash on it 24-7 when it's out of the crate. 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:18.079 Well, I'm not gonna do that. 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.759 You remember the Sheba consult that I had? 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:23.200 Yeah. 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:34.799 I think when it just boils down to you wanna love the dog, give them all the freedom and whatever, and then at the end of the day, dog has to get put down because it's now a liability. 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.920 You know, running the house and biting biting everybody. 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:40.480 Yeah. 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:48.559 I had a consult with this couple that came into the facility and their Shiba was biting them. 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:50.720 And typical Shiba behavior. 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.519 Typical Shiba behavior, and they're like, Well, we need to fix this now. 00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:00.319 And I was like, Okay, well, you can come to classes and we'll work on your leash handling. 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.279 No, I want to fix, I want to fix this. 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:10.799 Okay, well, we need to train you on how to communicate with your dog because this dog is doing whatever he wants. 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:12.640 Like, it's always it's the same thing, right? 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:13.759 The dog is doing whatever they want. 00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:15.759 I'm like, the dog's doing whatever they want. 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:18.640 Um, well, how do I get him to stop like attacking me? 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.599 I'm like, well, we could start with putting a leash on in the house. 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:23.440 Oh, well, I'm not gonna do that. 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:25.440 And it's like, that's like the most basic thing. 00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.319 If you're not gonna do that, why would I continue working with you? 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:29.440 I was like, why? 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:31.200 I guess the biting's not that bad, huh? 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:31.599 Yeah. 00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:32.799 I was like, okay. 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:35.039 I think I was literally like, okay. 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:37.200 Like, how else do I help you? 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:40.240 Well, I'm like, what do you want me to do? 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:49.759 You know, my thing from a client perspective is, or from someone like evaluating that dog, I'm like, okay, if you're not willing to put a leash on the dog, then you're not going to put the dog in a crate. 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.279 You're not going to have the dog wear an

e-collar once outside of the crate with no leash. 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:54.640 Even punish the dog. 00:26:54.799 --> 00:27:01.359 I know we don't like to talk about punishment, but like it is truly a very valuable thing in behavioral mod. 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:02.000 100%. 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:08.640 Like a dog like that has to learn I can't use aggression to get what I want. 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.200 Yeah. 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:14.000 And it's can I think we talked about it a little bit with that dog that you had a consultation with. 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:20.079 Like, sometimes I wonder if like just telling that dog no and giving it a meaningful correction would have solved a lot of those problems. 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:24.640 And the dog's just never been told in a meaningful way that going after you is just not allowed. 00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:25.039 Yeah. 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:29.200 And that's the other thing that sucks too, is it's usually not the dog's fault. 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:29.599 No. 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:35.279 You know, like I don't think a stable dog is really ever going to be pushed to biting people. 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:45.839 Like, there's definitely probably a bit of some instability as far as the genetics go, but that dog has just never had somebody tell it no. 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:49.200 And it's all the little tiny things that add up, like in the end. 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:51.279 It's, oh, my dog's pulling me on the leash. 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:53.519 Oh, my dog is being kind of reactive. 00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:57.680 Oh, my dog, like, I sit on the couch and the dog comes up and lays on me. 00:27:57.920 --> 00:27:59.839 Oh, I can't get the dog off the couch. 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:05.359 Like, all those little things eventually pile into, oh, my dog bit me for the for the first time. 00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:08.640 There's rarely a dog that's like, oh, today I'm just gonna bite you. 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.519 It's typically a lot of little things that lead up to it, and people don't take those things seriously. 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:13.920 Yeah. 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.359 It's always all of a sudden. 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.920 All of it would mean out of nowhere. 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:18.960 Yeah. 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:24.319 So, what are some boundaries that you suggest people implement with their dogs? 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.640 Let's say they're struggling with some behavioral issues. 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:29.440 We won't go as far as like attacking the owner. 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:30.319 I think that's fair. 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.480 I probably had a dog attack me. 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:35.279 So I think I have some good good boundaries. 00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:35.839 Yes. 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:39.440 Um, I definitely like every dog needs to be crate trained. 00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:46.000 Whether it's the most happy golden retriever or the most serious behavior mod case, crate training is a number one. 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:50.960 Um, a lot of the times for most of my behavior mods, they are muzzle trained. 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:54.880 Even if the dog maybe necessarily is only like, oh, they're only aggressive at the vet. 00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:59.519 Okay, you're still gonna get muzzle trained because it's gonna come in handy one day. 00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:04.240 And I don't I don't want conflict around restraining you in any way. 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.559 So a lot of the times I'm doing a lot of handling games like grabbing your collar. 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.119 Typically, all of that was with a muzzle on. 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:19.200 Um, most of the time with those dogs, I have either a long line, long leash, definitely e-collar on if the dog's outside of a crate just for kind of a safety. 00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:26.079 Um, and then some other things are like thresholds, not letting the dogs on the couch if they have serious issues. 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:32.400 Um yeah, just pretty much that the dog has to be invited into living my life. 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:37.039 Not that the dog can like live its life with me, like with a serious behavior bond case, though. 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:37.599 Yeah. 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:43.920 And why do you think that has such an impact on how the dogs act towards us? 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.599 Like I see it in our human relationships, right? 00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:51.599 Like healthy boundaries make for good people relationships too. 00:29:51.680 --> 00:30:01.599 So it makes sense that it would be the same thing for our dogs, but what is something that you see that you've kind of seen over the years of like why it makes such a big impact on our dog's behavior? 00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:08.000 I think a lot of the times the dogs just are kind of like dogs that don't have boundaries are kind of just like lost in this big world. 00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.599 Like they're trying to figure it out for themselves of like, where am I supposed to be? 00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:12.960 What am I supposed to do, right? 00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:13.839 Because you're not telling me. 00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:24.079 And dogs with any sort of like weird genetic kind of fearful aggression or just any sort of just not super confident, they really, really struggle with like, you're not telling me what to do. 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:28.000 So I'm just gonna do whatever the hell I want and I'll figure it out along the way. 00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:48.319 And implying some boundaries, kind of like either right off the bat, or even if you haven't started, like doing it now and just kind of giving the dog direction, I think initially sometimes makes them a little bit more stressed out, which is why I think people give up because they go to put the dog in the crate and they're like, Oh my god, Fluffy is like so sad and so scared because I've never put this dog in a crate and it's been five years.

00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:49.680 And so they give up. 00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:52.799 And so the dog goes, Okay, well, one, that worked, so great. 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:57.920 Like I'll be fearful or scared or upset, and you'll give let me do whatever the hell I want. 00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:15.279 And then so I feel like if people kind of just push past that just a little bit, and the dog goes, Oh, wait, like you're gonna tell me the things that I can do actually decreases some of the anxiety or fearfulness or whatever the dog may um be having because you're pointing them in the direction you want them to go. 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:17.440 And I think that that really helps a lot of dogs. 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:20.000 Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. 00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:24.799 Something that I've kind of I guess articulated to myself recently. 00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:26.559 I've had a lot of reactive dogs. 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:41.039 We talked about this, Toma, a bit, but I see a trend with reactive dogs and like neurotic sniffing, like they're almost very pushy with like sniffing the ground, sniffing people, sniffing other dogs. 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:50.720 And I think it's the same state of mind that like impulsive reactive behavior that is leading them to have to sniff everything. 00:31:50.880 --> 00:32:01.039 Like we have a little doodle right now, and he's reactive to other dogs, and you take him out, and he's like nose glued to the ground, and like if somebody walks up, he's like jumping on them and like sniffing them really hard. 00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:13.839 And I had a Doberman recently who was the same thing, like he was sniffing me so hard in the first interaction, and it was so like forceful and impulsive, and just like a different type of reactive behavior. 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:19.519 Like, it's not curiosity at that point, it's not curiosity, no, it's hitting a different spot in their brain, yeah, yeah. 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:30.319 And I was like walking this little dog, and I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, teaching him how to loosely walk was kind of frustrating because he wants to sniff so bad. 00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:46.880 And I was like, I get so much hate for just this simple little behavior of teaching dogs to not stop, sniff because that's become a really big thing with any behavior mod reactive dog, is oh, we'll take them out on sniff walks. 00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:48.640 And it's like, why are we doing that? 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:55.759 But it's like, okay, you can do both, but I want my dog to have the skill of a loose-leaved walk. 00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:02.160 And I want the dog to understand that it needs to get permission to go do that because not every second of every walk is going to be You need to do that. 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:04.799 Like that is a reactive tendency, yeah. 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.240 You know, that like you need to neurotically sniff everything. 00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:14.720 And I think, you know, the world of dog training has become like, oh, never make them uncomfortable. 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.000 Like it's 100%. 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:31.839 Always be fulfilling, and as soon as it gets uncomfortable, like stop doing it and you know, have a bigger distance, and it is just damaging the dog's mental health drastically. 00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:33.200 I always equival it. 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:40.160 I always tell people like when I'm doing lessons with dogs and I'm like showing them kind of how to introduce small amounts of stress to dogs in their home. 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:49.279 Because I really believe that that's part of like the training process is like I can introduce stress to a dog and they get over it because they realize that I'm not, they don't have a history with me of being a pushover. 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.160 So there's never a like, oh well, I can get away with this. 00:33:52.319 --> 00:34:04.079 But in the owner's home with the owner's hand on the leash, a lot of the times the dogs, when like I have the owners do something that I've done with the dog 500 times, the dog goes, No, because I've been able to freak out and it's worked. 00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:09.119 And introducing little bits of stress and having the dog overcome it. 00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:15.599 I've obviously not saying like, oh, we need to introduce dogs to stress where they just shut down and like can't work. 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:22.639 I'm talking about teaching the dog to load up in a car without you picking it up or getting in the bathtub that with the water not on. 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:26.400 And the dog freaks out and you're like, nope, like you're gonna do it because it's not not nothing. 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:28.239 You're not gonna die, you're fine. 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:28.480 Yeah. 00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:35.920 And showing dogs that they're not gonna die through a little bit of stress and showing them, like, hey, I'm not gonna put you in a situation where you think you're gonna get hurt. 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:36.320 Yeah. 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.400 Or where you think something bad is gonna happen. 00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:39.519 You need to trust me a little more. 00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:43.119 You need to trust me a little bit more and become a little bit more resilient. 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:54.880 And I do think adding in small amounts of stress in a dog's everyday life, where they can overcome it, builds a more resilient dog because the big movement of like, oh, don't show dog stress and none of that. 00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:59.360 How is that dog gonna live in an everyday life where there are stressful things happening every single day? 00:34:59.519 --> 00:34:59.760 Yeah. 00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:01.360 Every day in the outside world. 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:05.840 And I don't remember what this experiment is called, but there's literally an experiment done. 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:12.480 I think it's on like hamsters or

like wild mice or something, where they built like the perfect enclosure for them. 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:16.480 It had, you know, wheels and enrichment and everything. 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:22.800 And the like rodents were getting sick because there was no stressors in their environment. 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:31.840 Cortisol plays a huge level in how even humans, humans, dogs, anything breathing adapts to the outside world. 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:32.639 Yeah. 00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:35.360 There was a girl did a post recently that I saw. 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:41.679 She was like, I optimized my whole life to have the least amount of stress possible, and I've never been more miserable. 00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:42.079 Yeah. 00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:54.400 But she was like, My apartment is the perfect temperature and my schedule is set up perfectly, and I go and get coffee at the perfect coffee place every day, and everything is perfect, but I like something is missing. 00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:55.599 I feel empty. 00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:56.480 Yeah, exactly. 00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:56.960 Yeah. 00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:06.400 And I think we do people that and I typically find this like people who have stressful lives don't want their dogs to be stressed because I feel like they're like, well, I'm stressed. 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:10.639 I need my dog not to be stressed because that I feel horrible being stressed. 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:12.800 So why would I want that to be my dog? 00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:19.199 And I go, but like, yeah, but you're like a better person because you're stressed a little bit, because you're good for you for you. 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:20.239 It's okay. 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:26.159 Like, I'm not saying throw your dog off a cliff, but like maybe teach it to walk into the bathtub at the pet store. 00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:26.559 Yeah. 00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:34.320 And that's my thing with like structured walks, too, is like I would say structured walks is one of the biggest things that I get hate for, especially on the water. 00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:35.360 Which is crazy. 00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:36.239 Wild. 00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:37.119 That's wild. 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:41.360 But I'm like, guys, this is such a simple skill. 00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:49.119 If you think that this is mean, like all I'm asking is that the dog walk with me, that's it. 00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:51.199 That's literally all the dog has to do. 00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:57.199 And you think that this is the most horrible thing that I'm torturing dogs. 00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.559 And like with my boredom trains, I teach two different types of walks. 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:04.480 So we have our heel and then we have like our let's go, which let's go is as much leashes as I give you. 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.000 You can do whatever you want, just don't be reactive. 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:06.239 Yeah. 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:11.199 And then he is like, you're gonna

heal next to me, sit when I or yeah, sit when I stop. 00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:15.440 No sniffing, no saying hi to other dogs, no like being reactive. 00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:16.880 Like you're just kind of right there. 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:23.440 And I tell owners, like the first couple of weeks, you will only be working on heel because that's the harder one to accomplish. 00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:27.840 Like if you go straight into letting the dog go back into like just regular loose leash walking, yeah. 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:32.400 And then you only use the you try to use your heel when you need it, it's not gonna be feasible. 00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:32.639 Yeah. 00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:38.159 Because the dog's gonna be like, well, no, like why would I do the harder thing if I've only ever been doing the easier thing? 00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:42.719 So getting the that be like healing solid and structured walks. 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:46.960 I also drew truly believe that structured walks are harder mentally for dogs. 00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:48.400 Oh, a thousand percent. 00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:50.000 I love a structured walk. 00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:52.800 I hate teaching behaviors, you know. 00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:57.679 Yeah, Angela was training Stony because I was like, I don't want to teach Stoney obedience. 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:03.840 I hate teaching behaviors, but like I love just teaching dogs how to like exist with me. 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:08.239 And I could just be a dog trainer that just walks dogs and be totally happy. 00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:10.960 And honestly, those dogs would be really good. 00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:17.519 And they would be fulfilled because structured walks actually takes a lot of mental strength and mental thinking. 00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:26.000 And the dogs, I always like say a 20-minute structured walk is better than letting your dog free run for an hour. 00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:26.400 Yes. 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:27.199 Or going on. 00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:30.320 Because I get a lot of those clients that like where I live, a lot of desert land. 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:30.559 Yeah. 00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:35.599 And they're like, Well, I run my cattle dog for five miles a day next to the quad. 00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.960 And but he just like goes home and takes a 20-minute nap and is ready to go. 00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:41.920 And I'm like, okay, like a structured 15-minute walk with you. 00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:43.039 Make him use his brain. 00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:44.400 Yeah, like make him think. 00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:45.039 It's okay. 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:54.079 And maybe he'll be a little bit stressed because he wants to go for that run, but he's learning to follow, like, have some boundaries and listen to what you're saying. 00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:59.039 And then when you do let him off leash, now we have a better head on the dog because he's thinking. 00:38:59.280 --> 00:38:59.599 Yeah. 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:10.079 And like that is where I teach the dogs to kind of like look to me for guidance, you know, because like you said, a lot of the dogs that are struggling with behavioral issues are typically kind of fearful. 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:19.679 They're like lost in the sauce, they're lost in the world, they don't have any guidance, and they initially give a lot of pushback when you start setting boundaries because they're like 100%. 00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:21.199 I've never gotten this before. 00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:24.880 And it's like I have dogs have really come after me for like simple things. 00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:26.719 Going in a crate is a prime example. 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:26.960 Yes. 00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:28.719 Because the dog's like, absolutely not. 00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.199 You're gonna make me get in a crate? 00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:36.159 Like, you're not gonna bribe me with cookies and chicken and steak and then eventually give up. 00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:42.079 Like, no, like that's not how that that's the first thing I work on when the dogs come into my home is getting into a crate with leash pressure. 00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:42.400 Yeah. 00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:47.280 Because the dogs need to understand, like, hey, like, I'm not gonna nothing bad's happening. 00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:53.119 Yeah, I'm just asking you to go in a crate, but I I'm not necessarily like I'm telling you to go on a crate. 00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.280 You have to go into the crate, you have to, yeah. 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.440 And this is kind of the first boundary. 00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:00.639 And the first boundary is gonna be going in your crate, not bolting out of the crate. 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:03.519 Like, that's literally my first training session with most of my training dogs. 00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:05.119 Yes, exactly. 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:06.400 I love thresholds. 00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:07.039 Love them. 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:07.440 I love them. 00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:08.639 I wish more people did them. 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:15.119 I love thresholds and like a true threshold, not just like an obedience threshold. 00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:22.719 Yes, I do a lot of like when the dogs are in my home, like cooking dinner and crate doors are open. 00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:24.719 Yeah, like you have to hold yourself in the crate. 00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:25.039 Yeah. 00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:26.159 Because you're not released. 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:33.760 I will literally go and like sit in front of the crate for 10 minutes until the dog has like actually settled and I'm like, I will, I'm more patient than you. 00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:35.360 Yeah, I have nothing to do here all day. 00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:36.079 You're my only job. 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:37.760 It's literally my job. 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:41.519 I will wait for you to calm down before I let you out of the crater. 00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:46.079 And I think that's the nice

thing with like when you do send your dog to a good board and train, right? 00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:51.039 Of people go like, well, those behaviors aren't gonna translate immediately into the new owner's home. 00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:51.760 No, they're not. 00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:53.920 But you know what they're not gonna have to do is sit there for an hour. 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:54.719 Maybe it's 10 minutes. 00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:58.880 Yeah, because I put in the dog understands, like, hey, it's not gonna the same thing. 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:00.239 Same rules apply. 00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:00.639 Yeah. 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:02.000 Yeah, exactly. 00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:19.440 I've been having a bit of um fallout with my reactive dogs, and so it kind of brought up this like thought process for me of allowing the dogs to get too many reps doing the problem behavior with you or that individual person. 00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:25.519 And for me, kind of my first step in behavioral mod is I'm stopping the behavior. 00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:27.679 Like this behavior ends today. 00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:38.480 I will not be the dog trainer who's gonna get a clip for social media of me holding the leash while this dog is being reactive and me just standing there and letting it happen. 00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:51.360 And my mom and I have actually talked about this of like, oh, like we should, especially with like the easy reactive cases where like the dog's super explosive and like just crazy reactive, but it's just like literally the dog just doing it for fun. 00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:51.599 Yeah. 00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:53.599 And I'm like, oh, like we should get a before clip. 00:41:53.679 --> 00:42:02.320 And I'm like, every time I've had this conversation, I'm like, I can't do it because as soon as the leash is in my hand, my body physically won't let me have let the dog have a reaction. 00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:03.280 No, literally. 00:42:03.519 --> 00:42:07.119 The only way that I'm able to get the clip is if the owner is holding the dog. 00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:10.079 But even then, I'm like, give me the leash because this can't be happening. 00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:13.039 I'm like, go ahead and walk that way. 00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:16.239 And I'm like recording them, like, okay, okay, come back this way. 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:22.559 Yeah, like not allowing the dog to get reps of practicing the behavior that you're trying to work through with the owner. 00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:33.760 And that's something that I've been kind of working with my reactive dogs with, is they're like, Meg, we're we're having to go back to like more of the structured training sessions. 00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:36.719 I can't just go for a long neighborhood walk with my dog. 00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:45.039 And I'm like, well, I can do that with your dog because your dog knows that that shit don't fly. 00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:46.320 As soon as you take the leash. 00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:47.280 That shit don't fly. 00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:49.920 Or even if you're in the like, we have a lot of dogs like that. 00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:52.719 Like, people will be like, oh, like my dog's being super reactive. 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.760 Like, can we please do a lesson? 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:55.840 And I show up and the dog will not do it. 00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:56.719 Yes, ma'am. 00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:57.519 What do you mean? 00:42:58.400 --> 00:42:59.679 And it's a conversation. 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:04.239 Like, I have it a lot with clients of being like, you guys have to follow through. 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:07.519 And they go, like, okay, like, I does it like really translate. 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:09.440 I'm like, yes, dogs are really good. 00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:15.440 I'll have dogs that come back for boarding that are horrible with their owners because they do not follow through at all. 00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:18.400 Dogs wearing an e-color like a necklace, just so bad. 00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:22.960 They literally pull up to my property, the dogs get out of the car and they sit perfectly by the owners. 00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:25.920 And every single time the owner's like, the dog never acts like this. 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:29.440 And I'm like, well, yeah, just because like the dog understands, like, that stuff's not gonna fly here. 00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:30.480 They're so smart. 00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:32.239 They're so smart when it comes to that stuff. 00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:34.559 And they're honestly like so manipulative. 00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:35.440 100%. 00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:36.079 Yeah. 00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:46.719 Because I also have like obviously, I'm sure you guys have had it, like dogs listening to the wife and not the husband, because wife is gonna actually put their foot down and husband's a big softy and lets the dog do whatever they want. 00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:54.880 Um, and I have to have those conversations with clients of like, okay, like, sorry, husband, you have to not cuddle with the dog on the couch. 00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:56.000 And they're like, What do you mean? 00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:57.760 And I'm like, you know, all the problems you're having? 00:43:57.920 --> 00:43:59.199 Yeah, it's all because of that. 00:43:59.360 --> 00:43:59.599 Yeah. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:12.480 And sometimes when I get people who I know aren't going to do it, and let's say the dog's not going to, you know, hurt somebody, I'm like, fine, but here's your trade-off. 00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:21.679 You know, you can't be texting me when you have family over and your dog is walking across their laps while they're sitting on the couch. 00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:23.440 You're not the client I'm answering the 2 a.m. 00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:24.480 phone call for, sorry. 00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:25.039 Yes. 00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:27.840 I'm sorry, you've lost that privilege. 00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:28.320 Yeah. 00:44:28.400 -->

00:44:35.679 So it's like a trade-off of okay, if you're not willing to set these boundaries with your dog, then like these are the expectations that you need to have. 00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:40.559 Yeah, you do have to be okay with that because it's also not fair for us as dog trainers to punish those dogs. 00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:40.960 Yeah. 00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:57.519 Because they the owners complain and then they're like, Well, can we drop the dog off back for I've had a couple of conversations with like the dog jumping is like a big one where they're not correcting the dog consistently enough and they drop off the dog for a refresher and they're like, the jumping's really bad. 00:44:57.599 --> 00:44:59.280 I'm like, I'm not going to correct your dog. 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:03.519 Because it's not fair for me to correct your dog when you're not going to correct them at home. 00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:12.079 Because me correcting them high one time and them being like, Cool, like that's all I needed, and then going home and like being allowed to jump, that's not fair. 00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:12.880 Yeah. 00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:13.760 Yeah. 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:16.800 You got anything to say, Toma? 00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:22.320 I mean, I think it boils down to good dog training's honestly pretty boring. 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:28.880 Like just the reps, the accountability, the follow-through, and a lot of people are not willing to do that, you know. 00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:31.679 It doesn't have to be always like active training sessions. 00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:40.239 Like sometimes it's literally just the basics and like the little things uh it adds up, you know, like threshold manners or not allowing the dog to jump. 00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:47.360 I think you're very good at motivating clients and kind of meeting them where they're at, you know. 00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:50.320 I think you're good at the trade-off, right? 00:45:50.400 --> 00:46:01.199 Of being like, oh, well, if you don't want to do this, like this is kind of where you're gonna see that fallout, but like let's keep working on it and like kind of getting the owners to eventually be like, oh wait, actually, maybe we don't want the dog to do that. 00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.360 Yeah, you're like the nice guy. 00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:04.800 I'm the bad cop. 00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:06.159 You gotta ease them into it. 00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:12.880 Me and Angela are like, no, no, punish him. 00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:13.519 Yeah. 00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:14.000 Yeah. 00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:20.320 I think too though, like, I'm spoiled in the fact that uh I'm the only like dog trainer in the area. 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:23.039 So I'm like, if you don't want to do it this way, that's really fine. 00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:24.639 I can recommend you to someone in LA. 00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:27.119 But yeah, that's it's four and a half hours. 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:30.800 So if you are that dedicated, you

might as well just come to me. 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:32.800 And then most of the time they're like, oh, okay. 00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:35.119 I guess we'll come to you and listen to you. 00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:36.159 Damn, that's funny. 00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:38.079 That's a easy sales pitch right there. 00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:38.800 Yeah, yeah. 00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:48.880 I definitely like having a business and having a bunch of trainers got me stuck in the cycle of like we just take on anybody, you know. 00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:50.880 Yeah, and I think a lot of trainers get there though. 00:46:51.119 --> 00:47:05.519 Like I think when I initially like was kind of getting into dog training, going through the school, there was this thing where they were like, oh, well, like to do this type of training, like you need to ask for eight weeks. 00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:09.199 And I'm like, okay, but the clients that I have aren't gonna go for eight weeks. 00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:20.800 And so when I got home as a young dog trainer, I was like, I need to take everyone because if I turn someone away, they're gonna go and tell everyone not to take their dog to me because I turn them away. 00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:29.440 And so also dog training in and of itself, when you're young, it's like kind of not inconsistent, but you're always worried, like, when's the next dog gonna come? 00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:31.039 When's the next dog gonna come? 00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:36.960 So you worry about turning down dogs because you're like, oh no, like I don't know when this next dog is coming. 00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:48.000 And so maybe you take a dog that you're not comfortable with, or you take a client that you're not comfortable with, or you know that they're not gonna follow through because you're like, Well, this I'm a dog trainer, I'm supposed to take this dog. 00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:49.440 Yeah, this is my job. 00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:52.480 And also, we kind of like know the alternatives, right? 00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.280 Especially if you're like, Well, I'm really the only dog trainer here. 00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:59.760 So if I tell you no, like I know you're probably not gonna be super successful. 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:00.400 Exactly. 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:00.800 Yeah. 00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:06.960 For me, it was I was like early on in my career, I had to pay my bills. 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:07.599 Exactly. 00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:22.960 Yeah, I didn't have the luxury of not taking clients that didn't create train, you know, and they would be fine with me create training, anything like that, but they weren't bought into you know what I really believed in and what I was kind of preaching to them. 00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:26.880 They're just like, okay, young girl, yeah, sure, whatever you say. 00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:44.079 And so in the early stages of my career, I had just the absolute worst people and the absolute best people, but the worst, the bad ones were

the ones who were taking all of my energy away from my good clients. 00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:53.440 And they're the ones always hitting you up for advice, they're the ones always asking, like asking these questions, but also then like fighting what you say of like well, but I'm not going to do that. 00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:54.960 It's like, then why are you asking? 00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:56.880 So why are we here? 00:48:57.280 --> 00:48:57.760 Yeah. 00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:05.599 And I also got into kind of like weird relationships with clients where they're like treating me like they're kids almost. 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:07.280 Or they're like best friend. 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:07.679 Yes. 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:10.079 That's become or they're therapist. 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:11.760 I am not a marriage counselor. 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:13.679 That is a big thing that I say. 00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:15.519 I say that to like my clients up front. 00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:16.320 Like they'll be fighting. 00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:18.000 I'm like, guys, do this at home. 00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:19.599 Like, this is not what we're here for. 00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:20.880 We're here to learn how to train your dog. 00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:23.920 I always I always say, sorry, I don't train husbands. 00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:24.320 Nope. 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:25.679 No husbands, no kids. 00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:28.480 If I did, I'd make a lot more money than I do now. 00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:30.800 But yes, yeah. 00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:37.599 No, I think it's it's really important, and that is something that I've learned over, you know, the eight years that I've been doing it. 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:42.000 But I had that little flashback moment where I was like, I have to help this person. 00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:46.159 And of course, Shane is like, Fuck no, take that person. 00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.599 You know that person's gonna suck. 00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:49.119 And I'm like, You're right. 00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:51.119 And the hard thing is I don't have to take a look at the person. 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:52.320 That person's gonna suck. 00:49:52.400 --> 00:50:04.320 And then what happens is because I mean I've had this happen to us where their dog goes and bites someone and they go, Well, I trained with Megan Toma or I trained with Angela, and I'm like, Okay, you took one lesson. 00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.000 That's that's not training with me. 00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:11.840 You do none of the management, and now I'm reaping the consequences of people thinking that this that's my work. 00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:12.960 No, sorry. 00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:14.159 Yeah, yeah. 00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:23.760 I've definitely I have really, really good clients now because I have people that come to me because they believe in what I believe in. 00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:32.559 Yeah, you know, and that's kind of the magic of social media and the podcast and everything that I kind

of put out there is I'm attracting the right people. 00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:44.480 And that's something that I talk to my virtual shadow students all the time is I'm like, get really clear on your values, who you are, and who you want to serve. 00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:50.239 Because if you are unclear, you're gonna take on anybody and they're gonna burn you out. 00:50:50.400 --> 00:51:03.599 Like, that is why people are getting so burnt out in this industry, is because they feel like they can't set boundaries with clients or they feel like they have to take on every single client that comes their way because of that like scarcity mindset. 00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:08.639 But it's almost kind of like a little test from the universe of like, how desperate are you? 00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:13.280 You know, I found because like I just started not just, but like maybe two years ago. 00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:17.760 I used to be like, if you wanted to sign up for a boring train, my first availability is today. 00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:21.760 I might have five other boring trains, but I will kill myself to fit you in. 00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:26.159 Because I in my life, I was like, I don't want to, I don't want to lose out on this. 00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:32.480 Yeah, if I make you pay a deposit and wait two months, like how do I know you're gonna actually want to come back? 00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:39.440 And so I definitely hit a burnout stage a couple years ago where I was like, this isn't doable. 00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:46.960 Like, if you are really wanting to train your dog, and people will try to guilt you into taking their dog early, they'll be like, Well, are you sure? 00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:53.840 Like, he's really struggling, and it's really important as a young dog trainer to kind of hold up those boundaries and be like, no, like I'm so sorry. 00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:00.639 We can maybe do some privates before, or you can come to group classes, but if you're serious about doing a board and train, this is my first opening. 00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:05.119 And that had saved me from a lot of burnout of just being like, no. 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:09.119 And I like surprisingly, I'll book out three, four, five months. 00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:09.840 Yeah. 00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:13.039 And two years ago, I wouldn't think that that was gonna happen. 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:16.960 Yeah, and that's kind of the thing is like there's always somebody else. 00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:26.320 And if you're putting yourself out there and you're kind of sticking true to who you are and who you feel you're capable of helping, the right people are gonna find you. 00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:30.400 Yeah, and the right people are willing to wait for you to have an opening. 00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:31.199 Yep. 00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:34.639 Yeah, and that's something that I preach all the time, you know. 00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:41.440 Like people are willing to wait three to five months to do a board and train with me because they want to send their dog to me. 00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:50.480 And I'm like incredibly grateful for that because, you know, as a 25-year-old, first starting out, I was I couldn't even pay for my groceries. 00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:51.440 Yeah, exactly. 00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:53.920 You know, I was like, I'll take literally anything. 00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:59.280 This aggressive dog that everybody else is, you know, denying, I'll take that dog. 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:08.559 And the thing is, I did, and I did train them, you know, so it also kind of like fueled this like I can do it, it works, I can do it, you know. 00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:14.719 But now like you said, that it's a test of the universe, though, and it it generally will bite you in the butt. 00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:17.760 Always, every time, yeah, always, yeah. 00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:27.760 And you know, you get a little like gut feeling, you're like, oh, this this person is I just have to say like the one wrong thing, and then I'm like, oh no, this is gonna be bad. 00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:36.880 Yeah, this is the the oh, like I my the big ones I give me are like really aggressive dogs, and they're like, This is my baby, and I'm like, how's this your baby? 00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:38.559 He just attacks them on, yeah. 00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:41.119 I'm sorry, like that's that's realistic for me. 00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:44.559 Yeah, if the client doesn't take the dog seriously, that's a huge red flag. 00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:45.679 Huge red flag. 00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:59.840 But that's the biggest thing is like I don't take aggressive dogs, but if somebody was like really willing to be like, hey, I know that this dog has potential to be unsafe. 00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:06.800 But like just like you said, the people who are about to euthanize their dog for behavioral issues and are like, this is kind of my last hope. 00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:13.760 Like, those are the people that typically for me always kill their boredom trains, like they always do so good with the dog after the boredom train. 00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:14.079 Yeah. 00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:18.400 Because they're like, they're willing at that moment to be like, it's either this or I'm gonna put my dog down. 00:54:18.559 --> 00:54:19.199 Yeah, they're all in. 00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:21.840 Yeah, they're like, this is the last resort. 00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:27.679 And I always feel bad that it's people's last resort because that's like a horrible situation to have to be in. 00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:36.880 And a lot of the times those are the clients though that really put the work forward and they're like, I want to keep this dog here with me, and I will do whatever it takes. 00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:37.199 Yeah. 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:41.119 And those are my most like consistent and successful clients. 00:54:41.360 --> 00:54:44.960 Okay, so we talked about a lot of red flags. 00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:48.800

What are some green flags with owners? 00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:54.960 I think one of my green flags is definitely people kind of reaching out before it becomes a big issue. 00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:55.360 Yes. 00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:02.800 Like my clients that are like, you know, like I don't know if it's this if it's that big of a deal, but like my dog is kind of growling at me on the couch. 00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:07.360 Or sometimes he like doesn't want to go in the crate and like I really have to fight with him. 00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:10.079 And I'm like, okay, like I'm glad we're reaching out now. 00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:20.960 And like they're like, I think I kind of want to like nip it in the butt now because I just kind of see where this, like, where they they can truly see where it's going and they don't want it to go that far. 00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:21.679 Yeah. 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:26.719 Clients that have maybe done research on other dog trainers. 00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:36.559 Like, I have a couple of clients that will come out and be like, Yeah, like I got the mini educator e-collar and I started conditioning the dog, but I just wanted to make sure like I'm doing it correctly. 00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:36.880 Yeah. 00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:39.360 Or those are my favorite people. 00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:40.639 I'm like, oh yes. 00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:46.159 Or like a dog, they're like, I've taught all of the things, and I'm like, Oh, I don't have to do obedience. 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.000 The pitbull I just sent home, yeah, uh, he knew everything. 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:50.719 I loved it. 00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:55.840 Down heel, knew pretty much like a decent recall outside of like when there was a prey object. 00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:58.800 And I'm like, you mean it just have to e-color condition your dog and that's all you want? 00:55:59.039 --> 00:55:59.760 And teach him to cheat. 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:02.000 Yeah, this is the best day. 00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:02.480 Yeah. 00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:16.480 Um, and people who, if you do come to me with a serious dog that maybe you adopted from the shelter or um had just gotten the dog, like people who are like, no, like I want to drop the dog off like right away. 00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:17.280 Right now, yeah. 00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:22.079 Like, because I get a lot of people like, well, I just got this dog, I don't want to drop him off because that's gonna be sad. 00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:26.239 And he's already gotten like tossed around from the shelter from different homes. 00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:31.519 My clients are like, no, like I need boundaries now because this dog's like going to walk all over me. 00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:32.880 Those are the people like, oh, thank you. 00:56:32.960 --> 00:56:40.079 You like see where this is going and you totally are on board with everything because you want your dog to be successful. 00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:42.239 Yeah, that's how Phoebe's owner is. 00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:46.159 He like had her for a week and he was like, You're a lot. 00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:52.639 I have clients ask, like, they'll call for dog training and they'll be like, I so I've had the dog for like two days. 00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:54.960 Like, when do you think is like a good time to start training? 00:56:55.119 --> 00:56:56.000 And like yesterday. 00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:57.039 Two days ago. 00:56:57.199 --> 00:56:58.800 Two days ago when you got brought the dog home. 00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:02.719 I think that's the best because then you haven't like repped out all the bad behaviors with the owner. 00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:05.920 And the owners really like don't understand them. 00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:17.840 Like, the more your dog practices these bad habits that maybe you're not correcting because you don't really know how, the harder these are going to be, and the longer your training is gonna take because especially like a hard-headed dog. 00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:20.320 Like Phoebe is so stubborn. 00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:21.840 She would be so bad. 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:27.119 I'd tell her, I'm like, you would be so bad if your dad didn't send you to training right away. 00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:33.039 If she was like a year old, or like if he had just waited another six months, he would be menace. 00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:35.440 That would be she would be a behavior mod at that case, probably. 00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:36.159 Oh, for sure. 00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:40.079 She would be reactive, she would be like, she like grabs your arm, you know. 00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:46.239 And like she's still a puppy, but like but if you as a dawn trainer see that country progressing, yeah. 00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:47.679 Yeah, for sure, for sure. 00:57:47.840 --> 00:58:05.840 Or even like how over aroused she gets with the other dogs, you know, like when she's playing with the other dogs, like I'm gonna be able to be like, hey, she takes the chase game to a not fun place with other dogs, you know, and I can kind of like give him those pointers, and you can set him up to be successful so bad things don't happen. 00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:07.440 I love, I love people like that. 00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:10.000 Like they just go and pick up the dog and then drop it off with a trainer. 00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:11.039 Or like puppies. 00:58:11.679 --> 00:58:14.480 Oh, oh, they go pick up the puppy and then bring it to me. 00:58:14.559 --> 00:58:15.679 I'm like, amazing. 00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:31.840 The place I was helping out with in Dixon, um, they have a deal with a doodle breeder in Napa where this breeder will literally send 10 week old puppies to the training facility to get like a puppy jumpstart camp done for like six weeks. 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:38.320 So we do a deal with like the potty training, leash walking, socialization for like from the puppies, like 10 to 16 weeks. 00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:50.000 And it is such a great program because

I'm like, you mean I just get this little potato that knows nothing and I can mold it to exactly how I want it, and then it like goes to its owners and like has a good start? 00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:51.039 Like, this is amazing. 00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:52.800 Yeah, no, literally the best. 00:58:53.039 --> 00:59:00.719 So, what's some advice for owners that you would give of kind of like boundaries that they can set in the home with their dogs? 00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:06.800 I know we kind of touched on that a little bit, and maybe like when to find a trainer. 00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:13.760 Yeah, so I think some good boundaries, especially if you're having like any problems with the dog, is first you need to be creating the dog. 00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:19.280 And if you cannot get your dog in a crate, that's definitely a sign that we need to contact a trainer. 00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:26.639 Um if we're being able to crate the dog and we are working on some training in the home, then that's amazing. 00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:32.159 Crating your dog when you are home is something that I don't think a lot of people are doing. 00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:35.119 They're like, I hundred percent, I want my dog with me. 00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:42.800 And that in and of itself causes a lot of separation anxiety, a lot of destruction in the home or in its crate when you go to leave. 00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:48.079 So teaching the dog like you don't get to be around me all the time, like some separation there is very healthy. 00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:57.199 Uh, and honestly, kind of treating your dog less like your perfect little pet and more like an active member in society. 00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:00.639 And we just live a life, and I'm not gonna spoil you. 01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:01.119 Yeah. 01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:10.400 Um, time to find a trainer again, if you can't get your dog in a crate, like that's a really big red flag, and that's like we need to seek out a trainer immediately. 01:00:10.719 --> 01:00:18.159 And I always tell people, you want to try to find a trainer before you are seeing really big issues. 01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:27.360 So, like, if your dog is like, if you're having a hard time getting your dog off the couch, but it's maybe not doing like it's maybe side-eyeing you a little bit, and like you eventually can get the dog off the couch. 01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:30.320 Maybe time to contact a trainer, even if it's not for a porn training. 01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:42.639 Maybe it's just private lessons of teaching you guys how to work through that because working through that in the moment is going to stop the dog from resource guarding the couch in the future, just because you're teaching the dog, like, hey, this isn't acceptable. 01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:46.800 And honestly, if you have a dog, find a dog trainer most of the time. 01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:52.000 Unless you have a collaborador if you got a dog, find a dog trainer. 01:00:52.159 --> 01:01:00.239 Even

if it's just for privates, like, even if it's just like, hey, like, I just want to get a couple of privates done, make sure I'm on the right path to make sure nothing bad crops up in the future. 01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:00.719 Yeah. 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:08.079 Like pre-emptive and pro being proactive with your dog is the biggest possible green flag you can be. 01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:08.719 Yeah. 01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:14.320 Something that I'm seeing a lot of is people using ChatGPT to train their dog, which is crazy. 01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:15.760 Isn't that crazy? 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:18.400 Like AI will never have my job. 01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:23.679 No, I literally I was texting Danielle that, and I was like, wow, we have job security. 01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:25.360 And she was like, Yeah, for sure. 01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:27.440 I was cleaning out a shitty crate at 2 a.m. 01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:30.000 and I have a dog that wants to eat me at home. 01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:37.119 Chap PGT could never Yeah, and like the advice that it was giving somebody was just absolutely horrible. 01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:39.199 It was like, you shouldn't crate train. 01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:43.119 Because a lot of that stuff is gonna be based off, and that's like another thing. 01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:49.360 A lot of the stuff that you're gonna find on the internet is going to be the force-free version of everything. 01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:51.440 I'm not saying you can't train a dog with force-free. 01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:53.440 I think good force-free trainers exist. 01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:56.159 I think certain dogs can be trained with force-free. 01:01:56.320 --> 01:02:00.159 The majority most likely cannot, with them with an average owner. 01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:00.880 Yes. 01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:06.159 And I encourage people to talk to multiple trainers. 01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:12.960 If you're talking to a trainer that is like, oh, I'm gonna take your dog for two weeks and it wants to eat people and it's gonna come back perfectly fine. 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:14.320 Run, please. 01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:16.400 That is not a good dog trainer. 01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:27.280 Yeah, you should be looking at dog trainers, especially if you have a problem dog that are going to be honest with you in a polite way and tell you that, hey, this is probably gonna require lifelong management. 01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:30.559 That is not a crazy thing to hear with a behavioral case. 01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:31.119 Yeah. 01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:41.039 Or also, I have had a couple uncomfy conversations of, you know, dogs who have bitten people or people who have come to me and are like, what do I do? 01:02:41.119 --> 01:02:44.320 My dog is biting people and they're like scared of their dog. 01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:48.800 I have the conversation of you're either going to have to become a dog trainer. 01:02:49.119 --> 01:02:55.119 Like that's the level of skill that you need to be able

to have this dog, or you need to be considered behavioral euthanasia. 01:02:55.280 --> 01:02:56.079 Yeah, 100%. 01:02:56.480 --> 01:03:00.239 And I've had that exact conversation and I've had it go both ways. 01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:07.679 I've had it where really great clients of mine had a six-month-old puppy, had bit three people, two people in the face, one person in the hand. 01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:11.039 They called me because they were going out of town and they were like, I don't know what to do with this dog. 01:03:11.360 --> 01:03:15.280 And they did my puppy camp, and she's a decent dog. 01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:16.800 Like, she's still very difficult. 01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:18.639 They manage the hell out of her. 01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:26.719 If she is outside, she's in a muzzle with a prong, an e-collar, a double leash, and but they are 100% okay living with her like that. 01:03:27.039 --> 01:03:34.400 And I had another client where I had the dog for a board and train, and I called her and I said, I don't know what to tell you. 01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:36.079 This dog is going to kill a kid. 01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:37.599 This dog is going to kill a dog. 01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:44.960 You're in your 70s, you're you want a dog that you can take to the dog park and take off leash, and this dog is going to hurt someone. 01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:46.559 And she was like, Well, I don't know what to do. 01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:48.320 Like, I can't send the dog back to the shelter. 01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:53.760 And I said, It unfortunately, it would be my recommendation to euthanize. 01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:58.320 Like, it's just not fair to you or the dog to put someone else in that situation. 01:03:58.559 --> 01:03:59.039 Yeah. 01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:04.719 And even like the dog was crazy, like, food motivated, but like almost in a bad way. 01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:12.559 Like, you would switch into uh intermediate rewards and he would go after you because he was like, What do you mean I don't get rewarded for this set? 01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:13.280 Yes. 01:04:13.519 --> 01:04:20.480 And he would go after you, and like you would correct him, he would come back tenfold, and then you would see a kid on a bike and no level of correction would fix it. 01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:20.880 Yeah. 01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:26.400 We had a dog that was like that, like the food almost was too much conflict. 01:04:26.559 --> 01:04:26.719 Yeah. 01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:28.639 You know, I couldn't even use it as a reward. 01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:38.400 And so I called her and we had the conversation, and she asked me to take him in because she was like, she would have only had him for like a week, and he had gotten out and like really hurt another dog. 01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:38.960 Yeah. 01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:50.639 And I took him in, and she we went to the shelter together like six months later, and we found her a very appropriate dog that can go off leash and do the things.

01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:54.480 And she put that dog in training, the new shelter dog, day one. 01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:56.400 She said, Okay, thank you for helping me pick him. 01:04:56.480 --> 01:04:58.079 Now he's gonna go live with you for six weeks. 01:04:58.400 --> 01:04:58.719 Nice. 01:04:58.880 --> 01:04:59.679 That's awesome. 01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:02.320 I know it's like it's such a tough place to be. 01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:05.920 And I've had that conversation with a couple people, and it's not fun. 01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:15.039 I don't enjoy it, you know, but I always go into that conversation with the the place of I don't think anybody else is gonna tell you this. 01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:33.199 And I think it's unethical of people to take clients' money when they're going to uh either one recommend euthanasia eventually, or they're gonna be like, oh no, I'm gonna fix it, and then send the dog home and the dog is not fixed. 01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:38.639 Yeah, I think that's a huge red flag for clients looking at potential like dog trainers. 01:05:38.800 --> 01:05:40.960 Like there are no guarantees. 01:05:41.360 --> 01:05:45.199 So the only guarantee that I have is that I work with your dog and you. 01:05:45.280 --> 01:05:46.880 That is the only guarantee that I offer. 01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:47.519 Yeah. 01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:52.000 I tell people I get as far as I can in the amount of time that I have your dog. 01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:52.480 Yeah. 01:05:52.639 --> 01:05:55.280 You know, you can't promise and I'll work with you. 01:05:55.440 --> 01:05:59.599 Yeah, I can't promise that your super reactive dog is gonna be off leash in three weeks. 01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:01.280 That's a crazy ask. 01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:03.360 That's a crazy ask for my labs. 01:06:04.239 --> 01:06:04.719 I know. 01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:05.280 I know. 01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:12.880 And I've almost I've kind of switched over into like even more paranoia where I'm like, I don't think any of you should have your dogs off leash. 01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:16.480 Like very few of my clients am I actually like, yeah, your dog is cool. 01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:23.599 Trust me, I have had the preach to the choir moment of like, I believe like there are certain times where I'm like every off-leash dog should be muzzled. 01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:28.559 Like if you're gonna have your dog off leash, it should be a muzzle, even if it's the most friendly Labrador, because it's a dog. 01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:29.039 Yeah. 01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:33.360 Like I just have you see it every day in the news, you see it every day on social media. 01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:40.639 Another dog killed someone, another dog killed another dog, another dog hurt a child, another dog ran over and attacked a goat. 01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:42.559 And I'm just like, you know what would fix this? 01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:43.119 Muzzles. 01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:43.760 Yes. 01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:44.079 Yeah. 01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:46.800 And not letting your dog off leash if it doesn't have a recall, please. 01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:47.199 Yeah. 01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:49.679 But it also kind of goes to like the boundary thing. 01:06:49.840 --> 01:06:51.840 People don't want to set any sort of boundaries. 01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:53.199 And they don't want to tell their dog no. 01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:54.639 For those little things, right? 01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:58.000 Like, oh, the pit bull I just at Home Debo, you guys met him. 01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:02.639 Like playing, and he's getting on top of dogs and like pinning to the ground. 01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:06.800 And it's like, okay, like we tell him no there because over time that's going to escalate. 01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:07.199 Yeah. 01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:10.960 And people just are waiting too long to tell them no and to set that boundary. 01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:11.760 Yeah. 01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:14.159 Boundaries, guys. 01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:17.199 You gotta have boundaries with dogs and people. 01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:21.440 Well, thank you very much, Angela, for ranting with me. 01:07:21.519 --> 01:07:22.480 I knew that you would be the perfect. 01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:27.599 Um, tell the people where they can find you. 01:07:27.920 --> 01:07:33.519 Uh, on Instagram, a greer2323, and then um on Facebook, Angela. 01:07:33.679 --> 01:07:39.440 We also have a Labrador Breeding program, Lone Desert Labradors for service dogs and good family pets. 01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:43.920 Yeah, we're gonna have to do a podcast on ethical breeding. 01:07:44.159 --> 01:07:44.719 100%. 01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:45.599 I'm down. 01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:47.039 We got Danielle's perspective. 01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:48.320 She's the rescue perspective. 01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:49.679 Now we can get your perspective. 01:07:49.840 --> 01:07:50.559 I would love that. 01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:51.519 Yeah. 01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:52.719 All right, y'all. 01:07:52.880 --> 01:07:54.480 Thanks so much for being here. 01:07:54.639 --> 01:07:55.920 Say goodnight to Toma. 01:07:56.320 --> 01:07:56.719 Good night. 01:07:56.880 --> 01:07:57.679 I was already half asleep. 01:07:57.920 --> 01:07:58.480 He survived. 01:07:58.559 --> 01:07:59.360 He survived. 01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:03.760 Angela drove like four and a half hours, five hours straight into a podcast. 01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:05.280 Shout out to her. 01:08:05.519 --> 01:08:05.760 Yeah. 01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:06.719 All right, guys. 01:08:06.800 --> 01:08:07.519 Thanks so much. 01:08:07.679 --> 01:08:09.360 We'll see you next week.