บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ 023 - Table Talk w/ Uncle Wayne

volunteer department that was supplemented by paid guys. ⁓ really. We had that worked during the day. So in the nighttime the v the volunteers would run the houses at night. Yeah. So when I was hired, we had about between twenty five and twenty seven paid staff and that was it. Sure. We've grown to seven hundred. Wow. And ⁓ so is it is it a lot of growth in the department, in the area. It is ⁓ really exploded. What caused such a big boom? Well, I guess everybody wants to live here. I'm kinda fond of it. It's home. Yeah. ⁓ but we have a little over twelve hundred square miles. And it's in the area of Myrtle Beach. ⁓ okay, so A lot of tourist attraction. A lot of tourist attractions. There's a lot of people that are moving here. ⁓ a new subdivision pops up every day. Sure. ⁓ there's a lot of growth. ⁓ and it's been like that steady for the last thirty years. Sure. That's awesome. I mean, good for the fire department too. ⁓ 'cause it'll continue to grow, we hope. ⁓ it's not slowing down. Yeah. So how many stations do y'all run then? ⁓ we have forty one firehouses. That's awesome. And it was probably just just one when you were No, no, believe it or not, because like I'm saying, it was it's still twelve hundred square miles. Yeah. And ⁓ so there wasn't as many back then. But we ⁓ we probably had twenty departments back then. Okay. They just had o lot further coverage area and it was predominantly staffed by volunteers. Sure. Sure. When I thought when I got hired, we might have had Let me think. I'm trying to we had three houses that were twenty staffed twenty four hours and we had about five or six that were day workers. I gotcha. No, I'm just comparing it to like my hometown, ⁓ which does the same thing. It's it's staffed during the day. ⁓ for the ambulances are staffed during the day, and then everything else is volunteer. ⁓ but they're just one station. So that's kind of what I was picturing in my mind. ⁓ but no, that's a I mean, that's a pretty cool story. I mean, you've seen the evolution of this fire department. You know, and that's that's awesome. ⁓ it's something to be proud of to say, you know, I didn't do it, but I got to watch it. I mean I was a part of the process, but to watch it to go from, you know, twenty three paid people to almost seven hundred. Yeah. And it's just ⁓ it's amazing to watch that growth and to be a part of it when it happened. And we have let's see and the cool thing about it was before two thousand and one It was EMS, new countywide EMS, countywide fire department. And in two thousand and one, they merged. Mm-hmm. So they started a whole new department in 2001. Sure. And ⁓ so we do combined service. Today's episode is proudly sponsored by Vanguard Safetyware. Vanguard was founded with one mission to improve personal protective equipment for the people who answer the call every single day. By bringing together street level firefighter Ryan Pennington. 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If you'd like to check them out or any of their products, you can head over to Vanguard Safetyware dot com The link will be in the description and check out all of their awesome products and help them raise those funds that they're donating. Vanguard SafetyWare, leading the future of firefighter protection. Since 2001 to now, we have had fifty-eight recruit classes. Wow. Putting them through. Yeah, we do a lot. I mean, a lot of growth, a lot and you gotta do a lot of work to to cover that growth. Yeah. So let's start at the at the beginning of your career. You come out, you're green, and ⁓ just just walk me through how you got from there to where you are now. I can I can't write down the list of people that helped me along the way. Sure. ⁓ it truly takes a village to help somebody grow through a career. And kind of like if somebody says they if they don't if they don't give credit to everybody that helped push them and carry them along the way, shame on them. Yeah. ⁓ 'cause you're not gonna do it by yourself. You get influences and knowledge and everything from so many people that invest into you. But ⁓ There's a couple that really stick out and my mine my biggest one would be my first captain I went to work for. Yeah. And ⁓ he's still my hero. I still love the guy to death. We still talk all the time and ⁓ he still busts my chops every time he gets a chance. ⁓ he is still one of my biggest in inspirations. He still sends me text messages, hey, think about this. He's sending me drills back from the eighties. Yeah. Think you think the guys can bring bring the old history back? I mean, he's constantly challenging me to make myself better. And this guy's been toting me around for twenty-five plus years. That's awesome. Let's talk about those drills. What how do how do those differ from things we do today? They don't. If you if you look at it, you know the basics still put fire out. Absolutely. Basics still keep us safe. There is so many more advanced training that is available that guy I mean guys are going leaps and bounds, they're coming up with all kind of new drills, new scenarios. And I'm just in awe at the stuff these guys come up with. Yeah. But we all have

to still start at the very basics. Sure. And ⁓ Is I guess the biggest stigma is me being the training division, you hear, you know, you got the book way and the street way. Sure. Yeah. The streetway still developed from the book way. It's just putting a little tweak on something every now and then. But the drills really haven't changed. I mean, they have, but they haven't. Yeah. New spins. The biggest thing is is the drills have evolved to what technology is telling us. What all the studies are telling us now. We we know House fires are burning hotter, they're burning faster. ⁓ we've got a lot more nasty stuff we're dealing with. And we've got to we ⁓ we've got to be more aggressive. It's not being gr it's just going in and getting it. We can't dilly dally around anymore. We know flashover temperatures are hitting a lot faster than what they did in years in the past. It's just I don't know, it's kind of it's the same but it's evolving. Sure. It's kinda weird kinda weird to put it that way. I think that that's important to touch on though because like you said, the basics put fire out. And when I came on, you know, I'm young, excited. Now I'm not as young. I'm not old yet, but you know, I'm not as young, still excited. But one thing I've learned, especially working where I work, is It's just putting water on fire. Essentially, it's just putting water on fire. And there's a lot of guys, especially now, that, you know, I think majority are they have good intention of like, I wanna make this job better. I think there's some guys that are trying to find their claim to fame and they're like trying really hard, throwing darts at the dartboard of like, what if we try this? What if we try that? And ⁓ but I think we like another guy and I have talked about like you have to filter your information. And you have to test it. You know, and if this isn't something that works for you, then don't implement it. But I think sometimes my main point is I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in advanced techniques or, you know, this new method or this new nozzle or this new fire truck or all the new advanced equipment that sometimes we forget about the basics. And it's like, hey guys, let's not overcomplicate it, you know. What do you think? I think right. ⁓ I'm not gonna say the guys that are trying to come up with things, I think everybody's got really good intentions. It's not to make a name for their self. Everybody is constantly trying to make the fire service better. So doing drills to try to say, How can I get that hose in faster? How can I advance on that fire faster? Because the end goal is to knock the fire out and to get grabs. Sure. Yeah. Save save property, save people. And a lot of people are trying to find the easier ways to make it happen. Right. And firm believer in if you can make my job more efficient and simpler, I'm all game. Absolutely. Yeah. But is do it I think what you what you're rolling with and I'm just trying to think of the right way of the word it without sounding s a bad way. But ⁓ You're not gonna offend anybody to listen to this. I mean I I I want people to truly understand my philosophy on it instead of, you know, thinking thinking something but Instead of trying to make a name, make a purpose. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. You know what I mean? ⁓ because if you truly invest into what you believe in and make the purpose happen, the name will come later. I'm I'm a firm believer. My mama gave me a name fifty years ago. I don't need another one. Right. Yeah. It's it's e if people know it, that's that's that's good. Come talk to me about fire stuff. I'll talk all day long. Yeah, absolutely. No, I agree. And then and that's a better way to put it too, is like, you know, don't steer away from the basics. Just figure out how to make the basics better or more efficient. You know? The other day, and this will probably I don't know if it'll go sour on a lot of people or what, but it he said it in a way that made me think. And that's what I really like is when I can have conversations with people and they challenge me to think it, looking at something a different way. Mm-hmm because I can always learn something and I want to learn something new every day. I want somebody to teach me something so I can spread it. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I was I'll be the first one to tell you a hundred percent five years ago I was that burned out guy that was in a really dark place and you I was looking at c the clicker on my phone telling me until I could retire. I I was that guy. Yeah. And ⁓ I had some stuff happen and it totally changed the way I looked at it. It it gave me a new sense of purpose. It made me hungry. It made me want to share what I had. And it has just kept snowballing and getting bigger and bigger where I want to learn more and teach more because I had a complete reset in my thought process. And had an event happened that helped help change that. And I don't want it to stop. But the guy told me, he said, Do you realize everything we do is in support of one thing? I said, Humor me. He said, it doesn't matter if you work an engine, you work a truck, you work a rescue, it doesn't matter what you do. Because all of us have learned lit and life safety, incident stabilization, property conservation. But everything we do is in support of a search. Sure. How we pull the lines, how we cool the b building, how we do everything, that makes it so that search crew can get in faster, get in deeper and make get a search. The truck crew on the roof, getting holes, getting ventilation. That helps support the engine crew that makes the conditions better for that search to happen. And I it it took a second and I was like, it's that simple. You're a hundred percent right. Because if we go in and we get a grab and a house burns, we still win. Right. That's because that's really what it's about. Right. And ⁓ it's just taking somebody's thought process and thinking about it. And truly putting it into perspective. Yeah.

No, I like that. And you're right, because if it's an abandoned house and truly abandoned and there's nobody in there, ⁓ you know, and you go in and you try to put the fire out, but you're not you're not winning, they back you out and they go defensive. You know? But no, but with that being said though, Cody, how many times has an abandoned house just spontaneously combusted. ⁓ yeah, for sure. For sure. It's not mice. ⁓ in in the words of the old school backdraft, it's not mice with matches. ⁓ yeah. So but you know, how many times are are are grabs made from an abandoned house? Right. Every day. That's and that's my point is is we we always make sure I mean we here in Memphis we're very aggressive. So we go in every time and then if if we shouldn't be in there they'll back us back out. But ⁓ we do. We aggressive search, we're aggressive attack. And just because it's a vacant, we have a lot of vacant houses that just spontaneously can bust all the time, you know? And ⁓ and you're right, it's sometimes it's squatters, sometimes it's a insurance job, but you you always gotta check. And you know, but then to that point, like you're gonna keep fighting ⁓ until the search is done. And then if it's a lost cause, it's a lost cause. You know. Yeah. ⁓ but yeah, th I like that. That's a good point. ⁓ because everybody thinks like we're going there to put the fire out, which we are, but why are we putting the fire out? Because it's a safety hazard. It's a life safety hazard. Yeah. I like that perspective. And I didn't come up with that. Somebody challenged me with it the other day when we were having a conversation. I was like, Whoa. And I sit there and thought about it for a couple of days. Yeah. And before I before I knew it, I mean, I'd already taken that nugget he'd give me and then I started preaching it to the recruits. Get yourself in this mindset. This is how important it this this is. Yeah. Everything we do is important. This is why. And I'm I'm really big on not just saying this, but breaking it down to they understand the why, why is so important. Yeah. Well, I think if you know the why, you can it's easier to buy in. And the more we can teach the why, the easier it is to get that buy in. Mm-hmm. And the more they understand how it happens. Yep. I mean it's just like I relate a lot of things to to parenting 'cause I'm at the age or I'm at the stage now in life where like my kids are getting to the point where I have to actually mold and shape them, not just feed ⁓ and burp And ⁓ you know, it's like it gets better just wait. ⁓ I can't. I also I'd like to stay exactly where I am. but no, it's the the better I can ⁓ explain like it's not just picking up your room, like this is why we pick up a room. Or this is why we take the trash out, this is why we cut the lawn. When they underst start to understand like the consequences of not doing it, ⁓ good or bad, you know, it's like they they're more apt to do it. And I think that's that's taught me a lot about being a leader, you know, whether it's our business or ⁓ just around peers or at the firehouse, like it it it's helped me a lot in that in that perspective. ⁓ yeah. And you know, a lot of with what I do is, you know, and and not saying this in an offensive way, but the people I have are the two year olds. They're the two year olds at a fire service. Everything is why, why, why because they're they're hungry and they wanna know. So we have to, you know, not quit saying because I said so like you would with your kid, but truly understand we need to break this down for these people so they have a good concept. Because, you know, let's be real. When wh whenever they first walk in the door until they leave. We've got a small window of thirty, thirty weeks to try to put as much as we can into them and then for hope we done a really good job to keep them safe and everybody they're working with whenever they go outside the gate. Yeah. Let's talk about the new guys that are coming in. So y you know, 'cause I think a lot of times I would you would be a better judgment of this, but even in the in the 14 years I've been doing it, like the new guys now are different than the new guys then. Mm-hmm. ⁓ you know, and and at first this was I I grew up in a small town too, doing most of the work around the house. So for a new guy who's nineteen, twenty, twenty one, coming in who doesn't know how to start, you know, a two cycle engine, ⁓ it's like, Where you been? You know, at first it's kind of like a shell shock, but I've learned over time that like that's just how it is. And especially coming from a rural area to a more urban area You know, I had to come along. Some of these people don't even have yards to to cut. So, I mean, what's your experience been with some of these newer guys? It's you just have to look at it through a different set of eyes. The biggest thing is like when I'm teaching instructor development, teach a lot of instructor classes and stuff. And what I've learned is that in order for us to be a good instructor, a good mentor, mentor, we've got to one, have experience in the in the topic we're teaching, be really proficient in it. But then two, Take a second to step back and look at the world through their eyes. Sure. Just like you say, we have recruit classes a lot of times that's got forty plus people in ⁓ at a time. And it's more efficient for their family to have a landscaper come once a week and cut the grass while they're gone. You know, stuff like that. So that yeah, they've never started a two cycle motor of their or you know, it's just life has gotten a lot more convenient. than what it was when we were coming up. So a lot of the things that we were in charge of doing, you know, I was Jones's landscape company. You know, I was the landscaper. I was the ⁓ I yeah you know manual labor at here at the house here. Yeah. There's so many other things for that. You know, I had to load the trash up and take it to the to the dump. You know,

we didn't have curbside pickup service. We didn't have all this other stuff. So we have to understand that They were they weren't exposed to it. So we need to make sure that we expose them. Sure. And expose them in a way to where it's a learning experience instead of a way to demand. I can't believe you can't start a Okay. First thing is is I can do it really simple. How many of you have mowed your lawn? Because if they've they have never mowed their lawn, I go and go ahead and tell you right now, we're gonna have a lot of fun whenever we start working saws on a roof. I really need myself for that. And it's not in a bad way, but that just means I need to step up and teach a little more. Right. or the new people, I will say this, 'cause, you know, everybody's really quick. These young kids, these young kids, these young kids, these young kids are smart. ⁓ they're very purpose driven. They want to do a good job, they want to feel like they have accomplished something. Mm-hmm. I think a lot of our struggles come from the older generation not knowing how to react with how fast they can go to information because you gotta figure these kids grew up where information is right here. Right. Where we grew up, I had to read a book. Yeah. You know, we didn't have all this. I had fire engineering and firehouse come in once a month and that and the IFSTA manual. And, you know, the essentials of firefighting version two. You know. Yeah. I think we're on eight now. You know, we we validated our seniors. That was our source, that was our encyclopedia, that history and stuff. The younger people still want information, but they don't think they won't check behind you, you know. Yeah. But then we have to explain to them what's validated and what's not. Because anybody can say whatever they want and it go across social media, but it's not the gospel. I think that our the future is bright with the young people that are come in if they are steered the right way. Sure. And ⁓ that's where the chalkboard come in. ⁓ the chalkboard was designed to where People could share information about the fire service. Because if I don't share it now, where's it gonna go whenever I hang up, hang my hat up? You know, I'm I'm gone and I'm I'm I'm riding a rocking chair. Thirty something years of experience that's not gonna be shared, but if I can put it on the chalkboard later on, it's there. If I can write an article for somebody to learn off of, it's it's to share the information I've gained. We have The younger generation still has the civic duty, the civic mindset. But we have to we have to feed that little flame. It's not as bright as it was whenever we were coming through. Yeah. ⁓ because they have so many more options than what we had. Sure. We we you have to sell them that this is the greatest job in the world. Yeah. Because they're they're right now they are they're programmed in the way things are is that to question everything. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of a weird way to live, but they truly are. ⁓ one of the classes I was t I'm teaching, you know, out and I wait 'cause I've got a slide off to the side. And ⁓ it was talking about the younger generation. And I'm really glad you brought it up because it says these young kids, these young kids. Well we were those young kids once. Right. But somebody took the time to sh teach us. Right. So the question's not about the young kids. The question is, are we stepping up to truly mentor them? Sure. And teach them. And the slide is there's two slides into a thing, and one I get to brag on, my offspring, but one of them is a whole stack of fighter pilots in a class. And the average age of them is between twenty two and twenty five. That's awesome. You know, and that's the standard Asian military is teaching fighter pilots. Yeah. And then the second one is a picture of my daughter. Mm-hmm. And she's she's in her uniform. She's a officer in the military. And ⁓ and then I hit another click on it, and you get to see her doing her job. And she works on a mobile rocket launcher. And ⁓ and I'm like, we complain saying that. These kids, these kids. These kids are having a hard time stretching a hose line, but this same age kids are firing multi million dollar weapon systems. Yeah. So they they can be taught. We just have to find out how to teach. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, they definitely have the cap capability. ⁓ yeah. Especially with all the new technology. Yeah. I mean, if if it was up to me, you were talking about rigs and stuff earlier, if it was up to me. Man, still g give me an old Mac or an old C eight thousand with a throttle with a and with a cable throttle on it, you know, and take all the computer stuff away and I would be a really happy camper. and could teach pumps upside and down a whole lot easier. Yeah. Because now you need a computer degree to run some of these pumps. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's like I'm gonna go down a little rabbit hole here real quick, but you know, for us, I mean, we we have such a large fleet that gets used and abused. And we we had these like nice pierces with the tack for suspension and I mean just like just we're rolling in luxury, you know. And the last apparatus committee when we ordered this new batch of apparatus, they were like, Look, we're going back to manual crank windows. You know, we're we're not putting the onboard ⁓ we do have onboard foam, but it's like it's not the like most expensive system. We're doing lower hose, but you know, we're going back to function because that's what matters most. You know, especially when you are using and abusing stuff and ⁓ but talking about ⁓ I think everything kind of came full circle there when you're saying, you know, it's it goes back to teaching the why because they're the we are we are taught these days to ask questions, right? And so if you're not willing to give the why. You're really not fulfilling their I I don't wanna say their needs, but like the way that their thought process or the

way they learn is driven about around the why. So if you're not giving ⁓ that, if you're just saying, go do this or we just stretch this hose 'cause that's how we stretch it, you know, it's like they're not th they may figure it out. They may just do it because that's what you told them to do, but they're not gonna really grasp the concept of ⁓ why do we bring the butt, you know, the the first connection to the to the door. You know, it's like, well, that's cause he told me to. Yeah, but do you understand why? You know, it's like, well, no. And then they may forget it or they may just stop doing it or you know what I mean? Like it's just I think a lot of things you said there kind of came back full circle on what we had touched on as far as learning styles and teaching these younger guys. Does roll full circle in everything we do. ⁓ when I first started, they were using negative pressure ventilation. Mm-hmm. What are we starting to see again? Back to negative pressure. I mean, it and it's not saying it's bad things, it's just everything rolls around. Yeah. So the biggest thing of it is, and I'm just speaking on my part. My part is to try to help teach and get them Get ⁓ educated, make ⁓ safe. And is to basically give ⁓ a foundation, give ⁓ the basic building blocks for them to be able to go out in the street and learn the rest of their career for the rest of their career. And make ⁓ hungry for knowledge. That's the biggest thing is make if I can not program ⁓ but get ⁓ to where they think I've got to learn more, I've got to learn more, I've got to ask questions, I've got to know why everything is like it what it is. It gets them hungry to where they want to know more. Instead of wanting to know, instead of asking the question, how do you how do you lift the legs on the recliner? How do you pull that bumper line and why do y'all pull it that way? Right. Yeah, I mean to make ⁓ to where they're really about the job and wanting to learn the job. Well, I think you have a better critical thinking ability when you understand why you're doing something. Because then you understand when to not do it too. and you know, like my lieutenant is huge on making decisions. And, you know, he's very good about if there's something that we don't understand, he can explain like why we're doing this. And then the next time when we're faced with a similar situation, then we we already know what we're gonna do because we know why we're gonna why we're doing it. And we also know that Because this little variation in this particular scenario is different, then maybe we're gonna do this a little bit different, if that makes sense. And ⁓ and it's also what we're very big on at at my station, like knowing what everybody else's job is. So like I know what my lieutenant's supposed to be doing, he knows what I'm supposed to be doing, obviously. I know what the driver's supposed to be doing, I know what my EMTs are supposed to be doing, they know what the paramedic's supposed to

be doing. So at all times You can kind of look around the room and go, ⁓ this isn't being done. I can jump in and do that. You know, it's a it's it really is. You you develop a full understanding of the job and then you're able to be a valuable asset to the team and the fire department as a whole when you when you raise them up like that, when you teach ⁓ like that. And it's a never ending process. It it it truly is. It's a and if you can look at it through that aspect, it's no different than what's the chief of the department doing. He's helped mentor and raise the deputy to be the chief of the department one day. It's a it's a never ending all the way through if it follows through correctly. Right. ⁓ example, the movie We Were Soldiers, Mel Gibson, when he was in there, he grabs that one guy and snatches him off the helicopter when they're training. He said, Your officer's dead, what do you do? And the guy just stares and looks at him. He grabs him and snatches him off. He said, Now he hesitated, he's dead. What do you do? It's no different than what we're talking about. You know, the engineer should know the job of the boss. That way. That way he's he's thinking in his head. That way he's knowing what's the next thing going on. Break it back down into the ⁓ whenever you're on the medic unit. Your EMT should you know he should know what that medic's thinking, what his next anticipation's gonna be. That way he can be to be better to help his partner. It's it's everybody know everybody's job 'cause if something happens, no matter what, everybody's job still has to get done. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what I that's why I tell him Arnie guys too, like I'm the paramedic, so when we get a new EMT, I say, you know, like when we get it back there, the I want you to start with these things. You know, if I and if the order needs to change, then I'll let you know. If I want to do something else first, I'll let you know. and I had a one of our new guys was like, Hey, I'd like to start doing some of the assessment or asking some of the questions. Yeah, that's fine. And I mean, he's still at the point where I'm like, you need to learn the basics first, but I'm never gonna discourage it either because What if he ends up asking a question that I forgot about? Good. Yeah. So it's ⁓ it's always a team effort. I've always viewed it as a team effort, and even though I'm technically the team leader, which is a scary thought in itself, ⁓ you know, I don't discourage it because like I said, maybe he jumps in and does something sooner than if I had to tell him to do it. Or maybe he thinks of a question that I forgot or didn't think about. Sometimes they ask questions that are completely irrelevant, but you know, that's okay too. But ⁓ Yeah. It it just is what it is. You can't you can't discourage it. You gotta it that's our job too, right? As as leaders or whatever, it's it's our job to build and and invest in them. And it's just what you're talking about is like isn't the rawest form of mentorship. You know, I said something the other day I was having a conversation with somebody and believe it or not, it went up on a post on the chalkboard and ⁓ it went up saying that, you know, mentorship is the rawest form of leadership. And 'cause everybody wants to take leadership class, leadership class, this, this. Take time to learn how to mentor somebody, how to truly invest in somebody. Because whether you realize it or not, you're leading them. You are helping guide them. And when you get that process down, it makes the rest of it so much easier. Yeah. Because think like you talked earlier about buy in and what are you going to buy into more? Are you going to buy into the guy that's truly invested in you and helping you one, be better at your job, to be able to provide better for Mr. and Mrs. Smith. And then Knowing that whenever the day comes for them to want to elevate their career, go that next step, you've helped them prepare and will continue versus somebody that comes in and says, Hey, ⁓ let's do this. Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. A hundred percent. And because especially like if you've got the guy who sits on the couch and says, you know, hey, you need to go clean chief's office, you know, versus the guy that's takes you over there on your first day and And does it with you, ⁓ the the new guy's gonna have a completely different perspective or outlook on, you know, cleaning that office or really doing anything. ⁓ because in we do have, you know, we've got rookies and we've got a list of rookie rules. There are things that are expected of you. ⁓ and they are things like cleaning the Chief's car, fueling it up, cleaning the Chiefs off, you like you're the low man on the total pole. You're gonna do everything that we had to do when we were new. ⁓ but also if you need help, we're gonna do it with you. Yeah. And we're gonna walk you through it if you have questions. ⁓ it's not gonna be, you know, sit down, shut up and only speak when spoken to. You know what I mean? ⁓ yeah. ⁓ so and I think some people they blur the line. Like some of the new guys maybe blur the line of like they just want me to do everything. Well, it's not no, not really. We we want you to learn this stuff 'cause it's important and it's really it's ⁓ it's an integrity test, some of it. But you know, a a lot of it is just portraying it to them in the right way of this is this is done with good intention. You know, like we're not we're not being assholes. Into the simple aspect of, you know, something that was said to me decades ago and I still say it now. Whenever I'm questioned about a task like that and this goes this is a learning phase. Everything is a learning phase. Just like ⁓ I said when I was talking to Jeremy Daunch one time, I told him, I said, you know, every day's a job interview, whether you realize it or not. Every day somebody's watching you and if you perform well, they might want to hire you. Yeah. If you don't, they're like, I

don't never want that guy working for me. Yeah. And but if you know, I said to no, it was said to me years ago and I say it back, if I can't trust you to take the trash out when I ask you to take the trash out, how can I trust you? to have that line at that door when I say I need that line at that door. Absolutely. It's it's just that simple. And but in just like what you said about, okay, go clean the chief's office. But in no at the end of that sentence it's gonna be I'll be in the bathroom scrubbing if you need you know, it it's that way. It's it's not go clean the chief's office while I'm clicking E S P N Right. Or I'm getting dinner started. Yeah. Some something like that, you know. Yeah, always make sure when we do that in that sentence with not saying I'm doing something too, so don't complain, but letting them know that everybody is always constantly trying to make the place better. Right. Yeah, for sure. And so as you progress how did you do sorry, do you all have ⁓ like promoted drivers? We we do not. Okay. or ⁓ we do not have an engineer position. We go ⁓ all everybody that goes through a recruit program goes through a full E V D T class, pumps one, pumps two, they get all that in recruit school. ⁓ now they do we ⁓ the majority of the time, now it depends on staffing from day to day, but the majority of the time once they graduate, they will go to the back step. Okay and then they do more driver training with ⁓ and get ⁓ a lot more time in and stuff like that before they pull over behind a wheel. ⁓ But we don't have a dedicated engineer position. Okay. We ⁓ strictly know goes from fireman to lieutenant to captain to then the battalion chief. I gotcha. And so how many years were you a lieutenant then? let me think about it. I I went career in O one. I promoted in promoted lieutenant ⁓ nine. Okay. Okay. And then ⁓ I made captain When I when I left it I when I left to go to the training I left the street to go to the training division in twenty two. And I was a lieutenant from ⁓ nine until twenty two. I made captain when I went to the training division. Nice. ⁓ is that where you wanted to go was training? I had no idea I was gonna ever go. It just was kind of a random assignment? ⁓ me and that old captain I was talking about, we had us a conversation one day when I was in a I was at the corner of Burn upville and I quit. And ⁓ We had a a really heart to heart conversation and ⁓ there was a spot open and ⁓ he talked me into to applying for it. Yeah. And ⁓ I did and it completely changed the course of my outlook and my career for the for the veteran so many different ways. And talking about burnout, I think there's at one point or another in in everybody's career they're gonna experience it maybe even multiple times, depending on the person or the career that they've had, but how did you deal with with your burnout and what do you think kind of brought you back to the the excitement of the job? A hundred percent those kids. Those kids fixed

my burnout. ⁓ a hundred percent no line head new ⁓ me having the purpose to know that I think my first class had 31 recruits in it. And ⁓ those thirty, thirty-one kids or whatever it was that was waiting on me at the flagpole every morning, that's what fixed my burnout. That gave me purpose to do something again, to get up and come to work every day because I knew they were counting on me. And the job I done reflected their career. That that's really helped me. It gave me a joy in seeing them grow. Yeah. And watching them walk across that stage and get a badge pinned on ⁓ And then, you know, after I got through that first class, It was ⁓ I I'll tell you, it's instructor crack. Give me some more. I'll on it again. Yeah. ⁓ now don't get me wrong, some days it gets really frustrating and some days you're like ⁓ you just you you you turn on some metal and roll the windows down the whole way home and just scream the whole way back 'cause you'd have one of those days. But ⁓ there is a lot more goods than there are bads. Yeah. And ⁓ I will tell you I really love working on an engine. I was on the engine my whole career. ⁓ industry, but it doesn't hold a candle to the way I feel helping those kids. Sure. And now it's is progressed a little more to where I'm not doing as much with the recruits as I was before. Now I'm doing a lot more helping the guys that are getting ready to promote. I'm starting to teach teach the upper level classes and stuff like that. And that way I'm helping to invest into them to help them get ready for promotions and stuff like that. Sure. And then when did the podcast come into play? ⁓ let me just think. About a little over a year ago. It hadn't been very long at all. Yeah. ⁓ but I was sitting there one day and I had a conversation with somebody else, and ⁓ I got a good friend of mine that does some podcasting, and he looked at me, he's like, Think about it if you could make it to where you had a bridge to where every instructor there is around or mentor around or whatever else could talk all together and pass on information. I said, you know, that's a heck of an idea. Yeah. Pat. Let's do it. And ⁓ that's what I've tried to do. I mean just because everybody down to the guy that just re if the the guy that just graduated rookie school. By the time the next rookie school graduates, He's gonna have stuff he can pass on to that guy. So everybody's got a message. And you know, in whether it's good, bad, ugly, and different, everything can be learned. Somebody's always got something to bring to the table. Absolutely. And ⁓ it's just trying to make a platform to make it where it can be available. There's guys that nobody has ever heard of that's probably got a nugget that's worth twenty five million dollars in gold, but if they come onto the chalkboard, everybody's exposed to it. Yeah. And it's just trying to make that platform and it I've noticed in the one of the bigger bringings of it, I know I'm getting long winded, but the the mentorship part. I seen mentorship dine in the house. I'm not gonna say dine, but not as prevalent as what it was in years of the past. And I'm like, this needs to be changed. We need to be investing more in the younger people because Across the fire service, there's a lot of people that's gonna be ready to retire soon. And because anybody I talk to, a lot of them say, Hey, you know, a lot of our a lot of our lieutenants and stuff now have less than 10 years on the job. Mm-hmm. So if they've got ten years on the job, that's a narrow in a lot of par departments are less than that. So how much mentorship time have they had invested in them before? Now they're the ones in charge of mentoring their crews. So we need to really embrace no mentoring them, teaching ⁓ everything we can. Yeah. Not saying that it's a a lesson plan on how we're gonna do things from A to B, but truly having those tailboard conversations, those bumper comments, sitting at the kitchen table over a cup of coffee, truly just telling the stories and mentoring people so they can be better in their career and pass it on. Yeah, for sure. And if we if we can make that more common What's the fire service gonna be like in another twenty years when everybody truly just pours into each other and making the fire service better as a whole? Yeah, hundred percent. Well, and I think that's a good point too, is you know, like you said, there's a lot of guys that are retiring and w we'll never know everything that they know. ⁓ never. I mean they could they could sit there and talk to you all day, every day, and you'd never you'd never get everything. But ⁓ I think the the more guys that are willing to share that knowledge, the better we will be in 20 years. But say, you know, say we have say we keep things the way that they're going, where these guys are retiring and taking everything with them and not passing as much down as as they could. What does that look like? Because you're right, the the fire fire service as a whole is getting younger ⁓ across the nation. And so say we're not, as the younger guys Say we're not asking questions and we're not getting that knowledge that these older guys have. What does that do to our fire service in twenty years? That's something really to think about. And because the years of a twenty year backstep guy are gone. I mean, you still they're unicorns. You still see ⁓ every now and then, but they're not like they used to be. ⁓ I don't know. Because there's so much I will say I see it not being as good as it could be. Sure. Obviously. But the one thing that we do have is if we can instill the hunger for knowledge. Mm-hmm. Because you're in Memphis and I'm right outside of Myrtle Beach and we're having a conversation about how to fix the fire service. Right. Yeah. You know. We have this now that was never in the past. So there are ways to to try to make it, but think the biggest thing we can do is with our younger people right now to help spearhead this thing is

They you know they want information, but a lot of and I I talk about this when I'm teaching sometimes, so I hope it makes sense. ⁓ a lot of the kids we've got are from the COVID era. They finished high school, college, and everything else through COVID. They were doing school like this. Yeah. They didn't have the social interaction. So that's one thing I will say a lot of the younger people have is a lack of social interaction. They're they're not as big to bring up conversations. Sure. So if we can get ⁓ to where the they know it's okay to talk because I think a lot of them are scared. They have the ideas, they have the thought processes, they can calculate the information. But I think a lot of them are worried about saying something and you looking at them and saying, you're wrong. Right. Because I notice a lot of times with my students now, they'll ask me a question. So I give them the answer and then they're like, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was just wanting to make sure. It's almost like you're scared, you're scared to say what's in your brain because you don't want somebody to tell you you're wrong. Yeah. They want to validate it to make sure they're right before they say something. Haven't if we can get over that plane and let ⁓ know it's okay to ask a question and be wrong because I'm gonna give you the right information. Yeah. I th I think that would be huge. Right. So l a lot of it is just and that's into culture. That's the culture thing we need to fix. Let ⁓ know it's okay to be wrong. But we're gonna teach you how to be right. Right. No, you're right. I I've seen that personally. ⁓ we had we had a guy who was going through advanced DMT school and and I'm quizzing him a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And ⁓ you know, I'm like, Hey, you know, what's the dosage for this? And he's like, ⁓ I think I know. I'm like, Okay, we'll say it. He's like, I just don't know if it's right. And I'm like, Well, just say it, you know. This is like a five minute thing of me and just being like, dude, just whatever's on your mind right now, just say the say the numbers. You know? Like, just come on, just say it. Like I'm gonna tell you if you're wrong. It's okay if you're wrong, that's how you learn. I'm also gonna tell you if you're right or I'm gonna give you the right answer. Like, just like just Let the words out, you know. But you're right. I mean, that that's something that's real. And that guy even if even if they're halfway there, you're you're you're you're almost there. Yeah. This is why you're almost there. Here's the rest of it. Right. And they're like, ⁓ okay. Just invest in ⁓ pour into ⁓ That's all we're doing. Yeah. Lo look at ⁓ and say, Look, you've been doing this for ten minutes. I mean, literally, it like or or if you've if you're three years in. You're three years in. Right. This is the rest of it. Don't d and I don't know. We need to all get it the mindset, like I said at the very beginning, of looking at things through the eyes of

your students. Look at things through the eyes of that proby. Look at the eye your look at through the eye. Remember how it was when you were at three years or you were at five years. Yeah. And don't ever don't truly always compare because no two people are alike. Some person might not have the same drive you have. Find their drive, find their why. Why are they here? Yeah. And then it gives you a way to be able to put your foot on the gas and move ⁓ forward. Yeah. Yeah. And ⁓ but, you know, back to that, it's it could create a really almost scary situation in twenty years if if older guys are not passing it down or if they're not starting these conversation and us guys who are in the middle If we're not teaching these younger guys that it's okay to ask questions or be wrong or just say what's on their mind, like if you create a scenario where you've got young new guys who don't want to ask questions or be wrong, and you've got old guys who don't wanna teach it, I mean, there is no knowledge being exchanged there at all. I don't think it's the old guys don't wanna teach it. I won't say that. What I'll say is that you said it at a at a point of we'd build building a bridge. The younger people are scared to ask questions and the old guys are like, I've got all this information, but if he don't want to find it, I'm not gonna give it to him. Yeah. Yeah. So we need to be the bridge and say, Hey, this guy hasn't learned to talk our language yet. So sometimes we as the middle people, as that bridge, hey, Mr. So and so, let's go out in the bay and show the new guy how to do this. I now I'm asking it. I lit the fuse on that to make it happen. Sure. Then the kid Heard me. So then he puts two and two together. Hey, if I ask Mr. Tom, he'll show me stuff. Right. You know, light the fuse back and forth. Be that bridge. And a lot of times it's just that it's a change in the culture because of so many people leaving, new people coming in and stuff. And a lot of the I've been there. Heck, I was there. And if you're not gonna come ask me how to make yourself better, I'm not gonna just I mean, that goes into that sour aspect, being tired. But Now can I look at it through a different way and can I be the bridge and say, Hey, let's let's pour into this kid. Let's go do this drill. Let's do this. Let's make them better. Yeah. And then a lot of times what that does is that gets that senior person hungry to teach ⁓ more. Sure. And then they start being that encyclopedia that just throws up on top of with everything they've known for twenty something years and then the kids like, ⁓ my god, I'm overwhelmed. ⁓ Yeah. I'm sorry I asked. Yeah. I I promise I'll be b I'll be quiet. I promise. Yeah. But no, it's it's it's just a up and down investment. Mm-hmm. Cause a lot of times you've got a lot of older guys in the fire service that still love the job, still run the calls and everything else, but a lot of them feel and if they won't say it, I'll say it for ⁓ 'cause I was there. They didn't feel a purpose anymore. Sure. They they they feel like, you know, I'm doing the job. I know I'm doing the right things. Yeah. I'm close to retirement, whatever, I'm tired, but I don't feel purpose. Right. And then if we introduce Mr. Tom to new guy, And new guy and they start back and forth, it gives Mr. Tom purpose again. And you a lot of times you'll see it you'll see Mr. Tom in a wholly different mindset than what he was before. Yeah. Sometimes they may come up and ask, hey, hey kid, we going out to pump today or Yeah. You know. They they start looking forward to it, I think. ⁓ yeah. It gives it you know, ⁓ one of the quotes, you know, out of out of my out of my book was and I come up, and I don't even know who gave it to me. But I you know, author and unknown, but I wanna share it is purpose gives passion a place to go. Sure. But out you have all the passion in in a something to go, but if you don't have a purpose, it sits right there with you and then it it just eventually just A's down to nothing. Yep. You're so right. And that's what you know, a lot of times I'll tell people, they'll say, I got this idea. Well we'll go do it. You know? ⁓ I don't know. I think the time's not just not right. Well time's never gonna be right. Let's find out. Yeah, exactly. ⁓ so with your podcast, I guess where i if someone had never listened to it before, how would you describe what the Firefighters Talk Board is and why they should listen to it? Well, to start off with you, I appreciate this. You just gave me a bump to get ⁓ get off my tail and get back to doing some stuff with it. I took a I've took a summertime break here lately. ⁓ but The the firefighters chalkboard just basically takes people. Is is and it's not always the big names that we see on the circuit. A bunch of ⁓ come on there and I love it when I've got ⁓ or and and other people with podcasts and stuff, but then I really reach out to and I let the people that listen tell me who they want to see. And a lot of it is the people that have mentored them or made a big impact in their career. And we talk about that, you know. We talk about what we're talking about, the importance of mentoring, why this matters, why doing this matters. And that way the kid that's in, you know, Vermont can listen to the guy from Georgia talking about how He done this to make somebody's career better. It's just sharing that knowledge. Because if this guy's got a a a giver and a go getter mindset. Sure. You know, if his servant towel is huge, why not let me help him make it bigger? Absolutely. Make a make more of an impact into fire service. And it's there's never a wrong person to have on there. I'm I I'm not gonna say that. Sometimes a lot of people's messages might be skewed a little bit, but I'm s I truly believe everybody has a message to be told. That message might be don't do this, but ⁓ but everybody has a chance to make a positive impact in somebody's career. Absolutely. And ⁓ it might be if I

have Cody on my on the chalkboard, that kid that's listening may have never had anybody be a mentor. So that kid might reach out to Cody and say, Hey, would you mind giving me some advice? Sure. And then all it is is I'm that little bridge that helped those two hook up. Sure. That's that's what it's about. It's just a a way for people to help each other all the way across. If I've if if somebody's got knowledge, spread it on. If somebody needs advice, hey, this is how you just learned how to get a hold of Cody. Yeah. Absolutely. Just creating a community. Yeah. Yeah, and that's ⁓ I mean for the the last for the last two months I haven't put anything on a new chalk the chalkboard goes up every day. Sure. and I haven't had everything that's been on the chalkboard has been from people from across the country. Except today. I put ⁓ I put the one up today and ⁓ it was write your message. Hey, I'm out of content. I need more people to send me more messages. because I I want it I want it to be from everybody else. Well, pieces of advice from everybody else. ⁓ that's what I truly want. I don't want it to be something I write every day. Yeah. After a while they're gonna say, ⁓ let's see what crap Wayne put on here today. I'm not even looking at it. It's an it's Tuesday. I wan I want it to be something from a different person each time. That way and it's all about reflection because if you can reflect on something and get in a deep sense of thought, maybe it might change your attitude or maybe give you the The inspiration to help change somebody else and make them better. Yeah, absolutely. Before we wrap this up, ⁓ where can people find the podcast and where can they find the chalkboard? Okay, well, the firefighters chalkboard is just on Facebook. It's all together the Firefighters Chalkboard. ⁓ the podcast are on Spotify and ⁓ YouTube. Yeah, Spotify and YouTube. And ⁓ if you wanna reach out to me you can hit me up on Facebook. You can ⁓ email me at the firefighters chalkboard at gmail dot com. And that's pretty much it. I'll talk to anybody. That's part of being a podcaster, I think. Yeah. ⁓ that's where ninety percent of the kids that had that on the report card in elementary school too talkative, they're all podcasters. They're all podcasts. Yeah. I agree. ⁓ and then something I like to ask guys that have been on for a while, is there anything in your career that maybe you regret or would have done differently? Absolutely. ⁓ I would have started what I'm doing right now fifteen years ago. I know a lot of people are not I wouldn't say anti education, but they're more worried about the hands on portion, skill based part of the job, which this is true. This is a blue collar job. You're gonna get dirty, you're gonna you know, it is what it is. But I didn't start my formal education or college level stuff, all that until I actually went in the training division. ⁓ I had somebody that ⁓ helped mentor me through the process and said, Hey, maybe you want to start taking some formal education. Everything I learned was off the street and through our state fire academy stuff. And ⁓ if I had something to d had to do it over again after I you know, after I worked up to lieutenant and worked, I would have took advantage of my off days and started putting some formal education to it better more. And ⁓ to help me along the way. Because you know, one thing I never thought about was my favorite class in college so far was psych. Really? I never thought I was gonna really enjoy a psych class and it was like, okay, this is why I act this way and this is how I can help this guy. It g it gives you because every class we take through all the fire academies and everything else, we we take I'm just coming up with some dumb stuff, but hose pulling one ⁓ one, pumping one ⁓ one, you know, ventilation one ⁓ one Yeah. As company officers, they don't give you how to deal with Tom when he's upset today one ⁓ one. Yeah, yeah. We we get all these technical stuff, but they really don't teach us how to take care of our people. Sure. And as company officers and not even company officers, you can be that informal leader of the firehouse, that senior guy. A lot of times the problems we deal with is people. Yeah. And some of those higher education classes on a c on a college level can help you have a little better understanding on Maybe how to do that. Take some, you know, go to technical school, take some problem solving classes, stuff like that, that would help us be better. Yeah. Don't slow down on fire classes on your days off, take the extra ones. Yeah. So for the kids that they do view this as a you know, a primarily blue collar job and they decide, well, I why do I need schooling? ⁓ along with what you've already said, what what purpose has it given you or what ⁓ what's the importance been? I mean, is it is it just the deeper understanding and and thinking or No, you know, everybody's gotta have a goal. If you don't make a goal, you're not gonna push towards something. If status quo is the status quo, what are you gonna do to make the status quo better? Right. Everybody's got to have a a dream and a goal to go after. And since I have transitioned into my job now, my goal is to be a college professor. I want to be somebody that is working at one of the colleges across the country, either online or in a brick and mortar, but I want to be teaching the future leaders of the fire service. I'm already working with the the people starting. I want to get to the aspect where I have the opportunity to continue to share that knowledge with the future leaders. Sure. And make an impact that way. Because I'm not going to be able to ride a rocking chair when I retire. I know that my wife can, but I'm not going to be able to, and you can only play so much golf. ⁓ but I'm giving myself a purpose for the end goal and I think everybody else should too because even though I love what I do, there's got to be something else in the long run.

Sure. You know, 'cause ⁓ I think what the average time, depending on where you are, is twenty years to twenty eight years to be able to retire. Yeah. These some of these young kids, I I've had kids in recruit school, eighteen. So I mean, how old is this kid gonna be when he retires? Right. He he he's gonna have to have something else to do. That education you've got can maybe get you a you know, maybe you can work in an office job in emergency management or do this or be a teacher or anything else there is to give you something else to keep doing and give yourself purpose because like what I said before, purpose gives passion a place to go. And without purpose, Then you get in that dark spot in your mind that a lot of us have to deal with. The whole thing is to keep the purpose going, to keep the dark spot away. Right. And so would you say it would be more important to focus on like a fire service degree or a degree in something unrelated? I think it depends on what your long term goal is. If you want to be a chief, yeah, I'd say fire science then ⁓ You know, ⁓ fire service administration, public administration, something like that. I'm doing mine in emergency management with a minor minor in fire service. ⁓ mine's yeah. Emergency management with a minor in fire science. That way it gives me an open goal where I can teach emergency management classes, I can teach ⁓ NIMS classes on a college level, I can teach fire stuff on a co I'm I'm trying to give myself a broad envelope because I've really fell in love with being an educator. Sure. ⁓ really have. And I think it's Find what your passion is, find your why, and then go that way. And if anybody's got any questions or thoughts in their brain or whatever, ch shoot me an email. I'll help I'll I'll help direct you the best way or if I I don't know the answer, I'll try to find somebody that does. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, man, I've really enjoyed this conversation. And ⁓ I can't say thank you enough for taking the time and out of your busy schedule and coming on here and and shooting the shit. Yeah. My pleasure. ⁓ I really appreciate it. ⁓ anybody that's listening, you know, Engine House, they make some really cool hats. They they wear really good. ⁓ You an extra shot from the consumer side. Yeah, nothing wrong with a shameless plug. No, no, not at all. ⁓ but no, man, I appreciate it. I I really had fun. I enjoyed it. ⁓ can't wait to do it again. Absolutely. Well, guys, if you're listening, ⁓ check out the Firefighters Chalkboard. ⁓ he already gave out ⁓ the platform Spotify and YouTube. You can watch it there. You can also get ⁓ subscribe or follow the Firefighters Chalkboard on Facebook and be a part of that community. And ⁓ so check them out. Like you said, shoot them some messages, give them some ideas on ⁓ questions you have or any ideas you have on on the fire service. I think what he's doing, go ahead. I got one more ⁓ I'm gonna throw a shout out if you don't care real quick. ⁓ guys, coming up in October, we got small town job town in Hammond, Louisiana. There ⁓ myself and ⁓ a couple other awesome guys are gonna be down there teaching with the ⁓ small town pools. Look at theirs on Facebook. ⁓ I'm sure they still got some spots lined up for ⁓ lectures and hot training. Love to see you down there. Absolutely. Yeah, check it out. And like I said, join the community. I think what he's doing here is is amazing. We need more resources like this, more communities to get things involved. ⁓ and there's just not enough of that. Like I said, we got to bridge that gap between the older generation that's leaving and the newer generation that's coming in. So if you've enjoyed this episode Go ahead and give us a like. ⁓ hit the notification bell so that you can get notified every time we drop new content. ⁓ subscribe so you don't miss anything. Leave a review if you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And ⁓ don't forget to check out, like he said, engine house designs for your custom apparel design services and now uniform fulfillment services. So ⁓ also check out Vanguard SafetyWare, Dingus Fire Company, and ⁓ the Tilva Hala Project, and of course. The energy drink that we're fueled by. Pineapple's the best. Pine pineapple is pretty good. I had that one yesterday, actually. ⁓ so yeah, if you'd like to be a guest or if you have any ideas for the show, you can email me at enginehousepodcast at gmail.com. But other than that, that's all we have for this episode. We will see y'all in two weeks. Stay safe and ignite the pride.