บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Graphic Design 101: Five Foundations for Better Church Graphics | S1 E2

00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:54.560 Yeah, I think that understanding those things are important and to know why it works, why it doesn't work. 00:04:54.639 --> 00:05:00.240 And then you can, I mean, again, uh knowing the rules is great. 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:12.240 Um, and then knowing the rules, you can also break the rules and to know, okay, I can break it because of I'm doing this, I want this to kind of stand out, uh, and things like that. 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:28.560 So, you know, you get into different styles, not to be a technical or too technical, but you know, uh things called like brutalism and stuff like that, that's like a lot of chaos, but actually there's there is some order inside of the chaos and stuff like that. 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:31.839 So that's why some things work, some things don't. 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:32.560 That's right. 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:33.600 That's a good analogy. 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:40.160 So um that might be something similar to, and correct me if I'm wrong, like a graphic that's more in like a grunge type style. 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:40.639 Yep. 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:51.120 Um you you probably see some of that in like your um if if you guys are out there and you're searching through ready-made libraries, you probably see some of that in like your um youth ministry graphics, maybe. 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:51.600 Yeah. 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:59.199 Um, those are a little bit more like many people would say more chaotic, a lot more going on. 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:03.040 But at the same time, there is some sort of hierarchy going on. 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:06.560 There's some sort of, you know, these principles that are going on. 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:07.360 That's right. 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:07.920 That's right. 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:31.199 Now, how much of that um just just because and and I I kind of even go back to this just from like the art classes and design classes I had to take um in college, how much of that when it when it comes to the design world and designers like us who sit down and actually design sermon series graphics, how much of that is really like the fact that sometimes beauty really is all in the eye of the beholder? 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:35.600 How much of that is the designer going, well, this is my vision for it and this is art? 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:43.519 And then how much of how much of that is actually like rules and things that we're actually going by to determine what makes a good graphic? 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:51.279 Yeah, uh, that's a great question and something that is hard to explain, but I I like to explain it like this. 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:54.319 Uh, my wife actually does graphic design as well. 00:06:54.560 --> 00:07:05.519 She does it for uh health, wellness, and beauty uh companies, such as like CBS, doctors, Target, you know, kind of things like that. 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:09.040 Like very laid out, very professional. 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:14.720 I'm on

the other side, like you're talking about like youth student graphics, you know, kind of thing. 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:19.920 And like, or it's a little bit more chaotic and stuff like that with some of my clients. 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:25.360 But she also at the same time, her passion is art. 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:26.800 She loves art. 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:32.720 I also love art, but I um but I am more of a graphic designer at heart. 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:41.759 She is more of an artist, and so an artist is more of the um, this is what I like, and I want you to feel something. 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:43.519 Art is for us to feel. 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:45.839 That is what makes art art. 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:54.720 And um I I uh I think it's so needed, especially in our world of uh information. 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.680 We just need, uh I want people to feel stuff. 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:06.240 Uh just that's why we love sunsets and you know, uh sunrises and stuff like that if you're willing to wake up early. 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:12.879 Um or soon if it's coming to winter and you don't have to wake up as early, which is fantastic. 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.199 Right around the um, yeah, right. 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:23.439 Um and then design, I um not in a bad way, but where I want to sell you something. 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:33.120 I um signing uh I want to sell you, selling you something would be I want you to purchase something, I want you to come to an event. 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.759 So most churches are listening. 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:42.080 I want you to come to an event, I want you to sign up for something, I want you to fill in the blank. 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:44.960 I have a desired outcome. 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:58.240 So my design, I'm thinking, I am pushing you into a path of finding the final answer, sign up, the call to action, whatever that might be. 00:08:58.480 --> 00:08:59.039 That's right. 00:08:59.200 --> 00:08:59.679 That's right. 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:01.919 That's very, very well explained. 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:29.440 It's beautifully explained, actually, because I think that a lot of times in graphic design for churches, um, and this is something that you deal with a lot, um, there's a difference between what we're trying to help you feel and or communicate with something like an announcement graphic versus what we might be trying to help the audience feel um with something like a sermon series graphic, especially depending on the topic of the sermon or the sermon series, right? 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:37.279 Because a sermon series graphic may be more artistic in nature because we are trying to get you to feel something. 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:38.399 Yeah. 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:39.360 Um, yeah. 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:48.639 Um, yes, there are feelings to it, but it's also, you know, wanting to um sometimes it's visually explained what is, you know, kind of the series. 00:09:49.039 --> 00:10:08.799

I might not, I believe that we talked about like Nehemiah last time and try to stay on the same topics, but um like I don't um I I love trying to find a new way to look at um stories of the Bible uh to be able to like pique your interest. 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:20.960 Because if you're like me, I'm I I believe you as well, Josh said like growing up in church, I've heard like quote unquote all the sermons on Nehemiah. 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:30.559 However, for me personally, I've had a renaissance of uh finding love of asking weird questions about the Bible. 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:42.159 Not gonna get into the weird questions that I asked myself, such as like, um, was the flood a local flood or was it a, you know, a full earth flood and stuff like that? 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:58.960 There's many, you know, opinions on that and thoughts on that, but yeah, um trying to think through a deeper question and pulling, hopefully pulling that into, you know, what I'm designing um for sermon series, also for events and stuff like that. 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:02.480 So it's you know, focusing on those things. 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:03.039 Yep. 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:03.679 I love that. 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:06.159 There's so many different directions you can go with stuff like that. 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:22.720 And I think that's one thing that a lot of people don't um realize about designers who are well versed in scripture and theology and biblical stories and things like that, is we have a million running through our minds when we're actually sitting down to design something and how it could be communicated. 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:25.279 So um that's yes. 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:30.320 Not only am I thinking theological things, but I'm also thinking design principle things. 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:31.039 Exactly. 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.159 So it's like it's all the things, it's all there. 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:38.000 Yeah, our minds are going crazy with with all of it and how it could be communicated. 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:49.039 So speaking of design principles, um I I I think that uh part of becoming better at design is not necessarily becoming more artistic every time. 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.639 Sometimes it's just simply like learning what to notice. 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:59.360 Um, and I think that sometimes better design actually starts with really good observation at first. 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:05.360 Like you're just trying to like look around and figure out, okay, what are we going to communicate, what's there, what what doesn't need to be there. 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:11.840 Um, so let's hit some of these principles and kind of walk through them um for our guys here. 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:19.120 Uh we'll start with uh hierarchy first, which is uh, I think probably one of the biggest words in our list here. 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:25.120 Um just define for us in like really simple design terminology. 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:28.720 Um, kind of give us the the black and white understanding of it. 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.559 What does visual hierarchy actually mean in a design? 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:34.080 How does that actually work? 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:39.919 Yeah, I mean, it it comes from even just like editorial pieces and stuff like that. 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:45.519 That it's like here's the headline, the subtitle, and then the body of the text. 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:54.639 I mean, to not get technical too quick, like it's keeping it very simple is I mean, that's what it is. 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:57.120 Here's the headline that I want to grab your attention. 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:04.320 Here's a subtitle, a little bit more explanation, and then the body explains essentially everything. 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:05.519 So that's right. 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:06.000 That's right. 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:09.279 That's that's really I love that you mentioned the editorial aspect there. 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:15.919 So some of our listeners know that um I work in, I also work um in magazine, lifestyle magazine journalism. 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.159 Um, I've been doing that for like 17, almost 18 years now. 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.799 Um and in magazine layout, you have hierarchy, right? 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:30.240 Because you have you have your headline of the story on the page that you want to grab everybody's attention. 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:36.399 And that's always in like a really big font or something colorful, or there's a graphic or a photo behind the text. 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:45.600 Um, and then you have, to your point, the subtitle um or the the caption that's underneath um the the headline and whatever's gonna go there. 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:49.519 And then in much smaller print, it's usually text by and the author. 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:55.279 Because so we're not we're not trying to advertise whoever the writer is, which in most cases is me. 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.840 We're actually trying to grab your attention first with what the story is about. 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:16.639 And that makes you want to dive into the story and read, you know, three, four pages worth of content and look at photographs and you know, and if we're asking you to um email your thoughts on the story into us, then you want to do that and that kind of stuff. 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:19.759 But it really is all about, you know, grabbing attention. 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:27.120 So another practical example, um, especially in the church space, might be something like an event graphic, like we've talked about here before, right? 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:47.120 If we have like a church that's trying to advertise something like a revival night and they need to get a date on there and a time and a location, they need to mention a guest speaker, um, some things like, you know, admission price, whether or not there's child care, where the physical address of the church is, the

website, the phone number, all that kind of stuff. 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:56.000 If we start throwing all of that kind of stuff onto one graphic and make it all the same size, what actually starts to happen? 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:05.600 Um, explain to us, you know, if we're if we're just throwing everything onto a graphic and trying to communicate everything with the same font size, what is that? 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:07.360 Does that go back to the chaos? 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:10.240 Yeah. 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:16.559 Um I mean, so similar to what you're saying. 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:22.240 I mean, the editorial and then into uh social media and stuff like that, it's not much different. 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:25.519 I mean, it's essentially the same. 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:29.120 It's just how you're kind of presenting it as well. 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:40.559 And finding out like um things such as, you know, you don't have to do all the, you know, I don't want to, I don't have to tell you everything. 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:44.080 You know, you don't want to show everybody the headline is not for everything. 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.639 It's just simply to grab your attention. 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:48.080 So yep. 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:49.120 That's right. 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:49.759 That's right. 00:15:50.000 --> 00:16:08.480 So if if I've got like if if I'm trying to make an event graphic or an event announcement, you know, and and some of this is, you know, for social media graphics, you have different um different aspect ratios and sizes versus something like a widescreen slide, you know, um, that kind of thing. 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:17.679 Um if I'm trying to put all that together, I need to decide what is it that I want the viewer to see or notice first. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.679 Um that's kind of the communication strategy behind that. 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:32.879 Um is there a is in in making all of this stuff, is there a um mistake that you often see people make when it comes to hierarchy? 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:36.320 Uh yeah. 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:42.799 Um everything is uh the same. 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:44.480 Okay, like the same size. 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.120 Simple, uh same size, same kind of everything. 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.960 Um I mean it's let's fill up the space kind of a thing. 00:16:53.200 --> 00:17:14.480 And it's you know uh yeah, fill this uh everything is all caps, everything is the same where um uh I'm gonna get a little nerdy here, but like as I'm thinking through stuff, um, I also think about the psychology. 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:30.799 So graphic design really is uh a psychological endeavor because again I'm I'm trying to sell something, I'm trying to get you to go from A to B to C, or I don't care how to get how you get to F. 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:33.519 I just I want you to get to F. 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:39.200 Here's my thought of the logical spot, but if you get to from A to F, I'm

cool with it, you know? 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:39.519 Yep. 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:47.279 So I think about the psychology of it and what it says and what I'm trying to do, where I'm trying to take you. 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:58.240 The psychology is trying to make sure that um our brains, uh I believe in um uh creation and everything like that. 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:11.680 I do though, at the same time, believe that we have kind of animalistic brains where our brains are still in the um fight or flight and survival mode. 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:20.480 So our brain tries to it our brain functions in a way that says, what's the path of least resistance? 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:32.400 And if I have everything that's all capitals, um all bold fonts and stuff like that, my brain says it's too much to understand. 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:39.839 And in our world of information, we then are gonna lose people and say, I'm checked out. 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:40.400 That's right. 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:41.440 Too much. 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:55.519 My brain doesn't, unless I'm like overly uh invested, which is most people that work at churches, you guys, we are more invested than the average attender. 00:18:55.759 --> 00:19:00.000 And so we need to step outside of ourselves and say, hold on a second, is this too much? 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:19.279 Am I pushing too much into you to be able to, you know, grasp hold, quit not only like just get the information because I can see the whole information because everything is there, there's no high hierarchy initially, but then it's it's fast as well. 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:21.599 So trying to find those. 00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:22.240 Yep. 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:23.039 I love that. 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:40.400 I I I could not agree with you more on so many times when there's a graphic or um, you know, anything in the in the graphic design space that we're trying to lay out when things are all in bold or all in caps or all, you know, whatever it is, yeah, our brain just checks right out. 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:41.440 And it's like I'm I'm out. 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:47.359 I'm not even gonna try to wrap my head around whatever it is that's trying to be communicated here because it's too much. 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:53.920 Um it's you know, making everything bolder and bigger is not always the solution, right? 00:19:54.079 --> 00:20:00.000 Um it's it you're you're not always supposed to try to fit everything into whatever you're trying to communicate. 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.480 There is something to be said for leaving some negative space and blank space. 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:10.559 And just because there's, and we'll get to this later, but just because there's negative space doesn't mean you have to stick something there. 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:12.960 Yes. 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:17.759 I wasn't gonna say anything yet about that, but yes, I absolutely agree. 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:19.599 All right, so that's it, principle two. 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:21.440 This is uh contrast. 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:25.920 Um, most people probably hear contrast and think black and white. 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.200 They're just thinking in terms of like colors and things like that. 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:35.920 Um what does in in graphic design world and terminology, what does contrast really mean, though? 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.000 It's it's not just colors, right? 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:40.559 There's other things that can create contrast. 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:41.359 Yeah. 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:44.880 Um, I think about uh fonts. 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:57.519 Um and those have a contrast of again, uh capital versus uh title casing or um all lowercase. 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:01.519 Um there's also the weight of a font. 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:14.559 So you're gonna have your light, um, medium, regular, semi-bold, bold, extra, extra bold, all these different weights that you know, um, that are there. 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:27.759 But honestly, they're great because I can use one font and have there's still contrasts of not the fonts, the weights, the sizes, everything that there is that. 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:39.599 Um you also have, you know, can I see um some of the can I see the information that is needed to be seen clearly? 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:44.160 And does it, you know, does it in a way jump off the page? 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:44.559 Yep. 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:56.079 Um, you know, I know that a lot of graphic designers and uh communication people will say, uh, well, designers hate to hear, can you make it pop? 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.519 But I found Oh no. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.640 He went to the book. 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.240 This is this is the whole like a whole thing. 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:12.640 If you're not a graphic designer, that like this is probably the least favorite thing that you could tell a graphic designer is make it pop. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:13.680 Make it pop. 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.039 Okay, cool. 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.400 What does that even mean? 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:18.000 Like I I don't know. 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.039 I I don't know. 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:20.000 However, I would say that. 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:22.720 Yes, yes. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:24.720 Please explain this word pop. 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:29.759 Um I think of my initial is uh I grew up in Pennsylvania. 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:30.720 I think of Dr. 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:31.279 Pepper. 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:32.319 Yep, there you go. 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:32.720 Yep. 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.039 So exactly because it's soda. 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.880 Obviously, the best, obviously the best pop out there. 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:40.480 It's not called soda. 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:50.319 Um, anyways, um, but what many people are actually trying to say is when they say make it pop, they're saying, I don't see a contrast.

00:22:50.480 --> 00:23:01.680 The main thing is actually not the main thing right now because it's so uh it's muddy, everything is kind of the same tone, same color, and stuff like that. 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:10.079 So um, you know, that's that's a contrast area that uh is seen in design. 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:11.279 That's right, that's right. 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:16.960 And I I love the fact that you threw fonts in there too, and we'll get to fonts more in episode three um for you guys. 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:18.799 But um, but John is right. 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:24.960 I'm I'm actually working on a um logo design project right now for one of the churches in our 614 network. 00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:28.960 Shout out to Azalea Hills Christian Church in Mobile, if you guys are listening. 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:37.920 Um and we are doing a really cool combination of the Azalea Flower from the you know, the name of their church, Azalea Hills Christian. 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:46.400 Yeah, yeah, with the Nehemiah Wall, which is really cool because they are they're kind of going towards that whole rebuilding and revitalization thing. 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:52.960 And they said we want something, we want a combination of the Azalea with the wall in some way, shape, or form. 00:23:53.200 --> 00:24:06.720 Um, but we are working on some contrast because the name of their church is a little long with Azalea Hills and then Christian Church being either in a different font or a smaller font or off to the side or only underneath the word hills. 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:09.279 We're working with some different ways that we can do that. 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:15.519 Um and the Azalea Hills part is of the text is either in bold or semi-bold. 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:20.079 And Christian Church is going to be a lighter font and possibly a different font underneath that. 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:27.359 So that level of contrast just in like fonts and typography is is a great example, really good practical example there. 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:30.880 Um and we'll we'll show you guys how some of that works and some things. 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:33.119 Uh, we'll probably put some posts up about that. 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.359 But all right, uh, principle three in our list here is alignment. 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:43.680 And this this one kind of feels like one of those things that um we don't ever really notice until it's like wrong, right? 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:46.160 Until it's actually horrible. 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:49.279 And you don't even think about it until it actually goes wrong. 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:54.160 So um, in terms of design, what does alignment actually accomplish? 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:55.759 Like what is it, what is it even for? 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:58.000 Explain that, explain that to us. 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:08.160 Yeah, um alignment is again a clear pathway uh to the final destination. 00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:28.880 Um there are, you know, not only are things sometimes um aligned in a straight line when you know we're looking at notes, when you hit return, it just goes straight to underneath it, and they're visually exactly aligned to a certain you know spacing and stuff like that. 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:41.039 Um, but there's also uh kind of you can create a visual alignment where your your eye actually just kind of flows and it's maybe like a curve flow kind of a deal. 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:57.359 And so, you know, um having um I'm I'm trying to like keep outside of the brutalism thing because that really breaks a lot of stuff of these things, but you have to understand the foundations first. 00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:09.759 And so that's right, knowing these, you know, foundations is again, you know, like I said before, I'll I guess I'll repeat myself is that once I know how to break the uh once I know the rules, I can break the rules. 00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:10.319 Yep. 00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:26.240 Um so um, yeah, it's making sure that things are in alignment and not just like, oh, this is off by uh 10 pixels and then this is off by 13 pixels and things like that. 00:26:26.400 --> 00:27:06.799 But once you have, you know, alignment, not only like up, down, left, and right, but also the spacing between different groups of things that you have in the project is gonna have, you know, it creates an alignment and then um almost gives like your brain, again, back to your brain in psychology, a breath of fresh air saying, uh, okay, I can categorize these things because if I look in the distance, if I'm looking outside, I'm um I can see like my tree, the road, the field across my house, the house is behind it, and then it keeps going further and further in the horizon. 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:24.240 And so it's there's groups of things that are going on, and my brain is connecting them together again to not um when it comes down to it, our brains are very um, they're very lazy, but in a very uh uh specific way. 00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:25.440 So that's right. 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:26.160 That's right. 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:27.359 That's very well said. 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:43.119 I think a lot of times, um, and just to give you guys kind of like a practical example of what John is talking about here, if if we if you have a if you have a graphic where everything is um in a different alignment, let's just say, um and and it's not symmetrical. 00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:55.920 So like if if the title um that you're trying to place on the graphic is centered, but then your subtitle is left aligned, your date is somewhere else, maybe off center, and your logo is somewhere just randomly on the page. 00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:10.400 Um, and then you've got like a QR code or a website URL or you know, two or three other things kind of like all over the place, um, you are not communicating what you're trying to communicate with that graphic. 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:18.160 Um, it's almost like

you've got, you know, you're telling five people in a family photo to, you know, just stand somewhere and it's just chaos. 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:21.039 It's like nobody's telling them where to go or where to stand. 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:29.759 I think that a lot of times with graphics like that, um people start to think, okay, well, I'll just take all of this information and center it. 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:32.480 Um, but that's not always the answer, right? 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:40.720 Everything doesn't have to be centered on a social graphic or a you know an announcement graphic or something like that. 00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:42.960 Um I think we see that a lot. 00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:50.160 You know, I why why is center alignment um something that you think people just like run to in graphics? 00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:52.240 And it's it's really just one option, right? 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:55.119 It's not, I don't have to center everything. 00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:56.880 Yeah. 00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:09.440 Um, I think why uh I can't tell you why everyone does it, but I mean, you know, someone's done it and we're gonna keep doing it, you know, kind of thing. 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:09.920 Yep. 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.319 Um almost like it's a trend. 00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:16.720 Yeah, kind of it, yeah, an unspoken trend. 00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:29.279 Um yeah, an unspoken trend that just kind of keeps happening and it worked this time, and so I'm just gonna keep it, you know, like just keep it the same. 00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:52.240 Uh again, it's uh uh I don't want to say lazy, but um it's a shortcut way to be able to make something because I understand like there's so much going on in our world that like we've gotta get this done, we have to do this, we have to do this, we have to because we want to kind of in a way chase the Joneses. 00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:57.599 Um but when it comes down to it, I mean you don't have to. 00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:09.359 There's another way to I I think there's definitely a better way to do these things than just just because you um you don't have to post, just just because. 00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:10.480 That's right. 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:11.599 That's exactly right. 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:12.000 Yep. 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:13.119 Very well said. 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.200 Uh let's hit principle four. 00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:16.880 So uh this is spacing. 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:18.640 This one actually might be my favorite. 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:36.160 Um, because I think one of the great uh like just fears that a lot of church uh people have that work in the in the design space, especially that are trying to still kind of like learn some of this stuff, um, is that you know, when I if I have like empty negative space, that that's like a really bad thing. 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:42.960 Um they they kind of get scared of that, um, that whole blank space and they think they have to stick something there, like

we were talking about a second ago. 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:45.680 But let's discuss like white space, negative space. 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:50.640 Um, I think the idea here is that, you know, empty space is not wasted space. 00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:56.319 You it can actually help people, you know, like you were talking about earlier, kind of breathe visually. 00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:59.680 Um, you know, they they kind of feel like they can take a break. 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:02.240 It reduces the amount of clutter in the design. 00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:08.079 Um, you don't just because there is empty space in your design doesn't mean you have to stick something there. 00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:14.000 Um, you know, I you don't have to put the website link there, you don't have to put a QR code there. 00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:24.799 Um so as a designer for your for things that you work on, John, help us understand how do you know when there's enough space? 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:34.799 Like when you are designing something, especially like an announcement graphic or um a graphic for an event or something, how do you know when, hey, this is this is enough? 00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:36.000 It's time to step away. 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:39.759 It's time to not keep just throwing stuff onto this graphic. 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:40.640 Yeah. 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.279 Um, I'm pretty terrible at this. 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.640 I I think all of us as designers are, right? 00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:50.319 Yeah. 00:31:50.480 --> 00:32:00.319 Um I here's how I usually design uh to be honest, is I throw everything onto the plate and then I start taking things away. 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:02.000 Then decide when to take off. 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:02.480 That's right. 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:02.799 Yep. 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.920 Yeah, and I I try to say, well, is there enough? 00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:07.839 Is there, is this too much? 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:09.440 Is this helping this? 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:14.240 Is this taking away from the overall conversation? 00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:17.680 Again, I'm designing to sell you something. 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:21.680 I'm selling you to go to revival night because I believe in revival. 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.960 I believe in encountering God. 00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:29.519 I believe in going to church, I believe in communities, small groups, all these things. 00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:31.279 I believe in it so much. 00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:34.079 Um, so I'm selling that to you. 00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:39.119 I am a hundred percent I sell church stuff. 00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:59.359 Um and so I think that what we do with space, uh yeah, with spacing is just not allow there to be this white space because um uh when was the last time we were even quiet by ourselves? 00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:01.359 Oh wow, that's well said. 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:02.799 Well said. 00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:03.920 Yep. 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:05.920 Yep. 00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:08.000 Very, very well said. 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:12.480 I I think that a lot of times when we're creating, I know I'm the exact same way. 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:21.279 When I'm designing something and I run into a section of the graphic that has a lot of empty space, my first thought is always, what could I put there? 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:22.160 You know? 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:23.200 Yep. 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:26.880 Even even as design designers, I think that we're we're guilty of that. 00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:30.000 And it's very easy to just want to throw something there. 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:46.000 But there is some truth, right, to that principle of um, if you have, you know, 15 or 20 things on the same page and everything is screaming for attention, it's really hard for um the viewer to know what to focus on sometimes. 00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:48.720 And so that's where things like hierarchy do come into play, right? 00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:57.920 Because it's like, hey, you know, the title needs to be larger than everything else, because I'm trying to zero you in on that first, so you even know what the event is about or the sermon is about. 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.720 Um yeah, yeah, for sure. 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:06.319 So even like even in conversations, it's weird to have dead space. 00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:15.840 Yes, yes, it's we it is So when I actually like I was just waiting and letting it to see if it would work, but you said, Yeah. 00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:17.119 Yeah. 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:19.199 We fill the space. 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:19.599 Yep. 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:21.440 Everyone does it, I do it. 00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:28.320 I was just waiting and like being nice and just like because I was thinking I'm gonna give him space and see if he says anything. 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:29.119 See if he says anything. 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:29.679 You did. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:36.800 You filled you filled the space, you kind of like walked into my trap, and that was a little uh evil of me to do. 00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:40.400 But it's a perfect example, but it's a perfect example. 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:41.840 We don't like space. 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:45.679 I don't know, I can't tell uh it's been a little while. 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:47.119 Um, I have a dog. 00:34:47.360 --> 00:35:00.800 She needs to be, she knows uh our life so well that when I come home in the evening or from home in the evening, that's our time for her and I to go for a walk. 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.199 She uses the bathroom, all that stuff. 00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:05.760 And then, like after the walk, she comes home. 00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:09.840 My wife sits on the couch, she'll sit on the couch with her, and all this stuff. 00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:22.320 I don't remember the last time that I took my dog for a walk and I was not um listening or talking to somebody or listening to music or listening to a

podcast. 00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:23.039 Yep. 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:29.440 Cause I'm thinking I gotta feel my like, oh, this is my perfect time to learn and more, more, more. 00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:30.239 Right. 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:38.639 Sometimes the more, I mean, this is a you know philosophical thought, but like sometimes less is the more. 00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:42.639 And like I I'm not very I'm I'm terrible at it. 00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:58.800 I didn't tell you the last time that I know music or podcasts, like my son, um my son and my daughter know if they're getting in the car with me from me driving by myself, a podcast was probably on. 00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:12.960 And they need to like if more than likely they don't want to listen to the podcast um because it's you know like design stuff or theological stuff that they just at the moment don't totally care about, and that's fine. 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:13.519 Yep. 00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:20.239 Um they want to listen to music, and so they'll almost like even before they get in the car, can we listen to something else? 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:21.440 That's awesome. 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:26.320 So yeah, it's you know, allowing allowing space. 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.039 It's hard. 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:28.239 It is so hard. 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:39.599 But at the same same time, it's so needed, again, for what you are saying is so that we know what um uh what the uh what the event's about. 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:40.800 When is the event? 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:42.800 Where is the event, you know, kind of thing. 00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:44.480 And so that's right. 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:57.599 Yeah, and and and to your point about um, we we would call those when when I was in um, gosh, years ago, when I was in uh broadcast journalism school in college, we used to call all of that verbal fillers, right? 00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:09.280 Like our professors would just, you know, mark off on anything that we did in the TV studio or radio production studios if we had verbal fillers when we were talking, right? 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:34.079 If we were reading a nightly news report or uh doing a weather report or whatever it was, and you paused and there was space that just hung and you filled it with yes and uh and uh and all that kind of we got we got so many points taken off of projects and things that we were working on because of that, but it's just you're right, it's just human nature to fill that negative space um with something, whether it's verbally or visually. 00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:35.440 And you don't always have to do that. 00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:37.119 Um, so yeah, that's a great point. 00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.000 I love that. 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:40.559 Um let's jump into principle five here. 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:41.840 This is the last one, guys. 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:45.920 Um, and I'm gonna um hit on a couple of things with this one. 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:47.280 This is

consistency. 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:53.440 Um, and I think it may be the least exciting, um, but it's probably the most important. 00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:58.719 So, first, in terms of design, John, what does consistency actually mean? 00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:03.599 Just like practically when you're working through something in Design, how does consistency work? 00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:04.719 What does it do? 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:06.320 How does it help? 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:09.199 Yeah, how does it work? 00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:32.480 Um same fonts, same uh a set of fonts, set of colors, set of your logo, how the logo looked, how it's presented, um spacing is even part of it, uh, visual styles, how images are uh shown, photos are taken, um, things like that. 00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:36.960 Those are very great uh consistency pieces. 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:38.400 Yep, yep. 00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:57.920 And so one of the things, guys, that I want you to hear with consistency when it comes to design, especially when it comes to um if you if your church is going to have something that you are putting out on social media that's regularly recurring um in between all of your other stuff. 00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:07.679 And for that particular thing, you use like, let's say, the same font every single time, that eventually builds a consistency, builds a level of trust with your audience. 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:16.559 There's a level of you know, trust and authenticity that's there because the the viewer can come back every single time and know what to expect. 00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:23.280 Even if the graphic or the picture changes, they know there's something about it that's the same every single time. 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:28.000 Um and I think especially in the small church space, that's that's really big. 00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:30.159 Um so hopefully that red. 00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:42.639 And I I would even add using those repeated elements, that actually will bring up your um, like you said, your trust, but also like the professionalism. 00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:43.199 Yes. 00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:45.599 It brings it up just one knot. 00:39:45.760 --> 00:40:03.199 Oh, I know that um a client that I'm doing a redesign uh for their logo, um they use a certain font and it's uh it's um it's terrible. 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:09.840 However, we're working on uh updating that and changing that. 00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:18.639 But I know that when they email me, I know who it is by the font that they're using in their emails. 00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:19.360 That's right. 00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:21.039 Um it is what it is. 00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:28.400 Uh I I have already said I don't like it, but at the same time, it's I already know who it's from, you know, kind of thing. 00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:38.079 Um and then you if you look even big picture, you can look at probably almost every Apple commercial. 00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:38.719 Yes. 00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:41.199 Um Google Great examples. 00:40:41.519 --> 00:41:03.840 Um, Walmart, uh Target, all these large brands, even if we're talking about like AI, like OpenAI, Claude, um Rock, whatever, they're all using the same font, um, their own same font again and again and again and again. 00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:04.400 That's right. 00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:12.800 Because again, like you said, you're creating trust, you're creating consistency for these brands to be able to say, this is where we are. 00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:14.079 You can remember us. 00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:20.400 If I don't remember the logo or whatever, though, you know, these brands you probably do. 00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:20.880 Yep. 00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:37.440 Um, for us smaller, you know, uh people, uh peasants, some would say, um, you know, people will start remembering, oh, okay, you know, oh, Josh always uses this. 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:43.440 Josh is, you know, 614 always uses this font and this kind of look. 00:41:43.599 --> 00:42:01.280 And it's um, as a designer, to be honest, it's a little bit frustrating sometimes, but at the same time, I know that the deeper reasoning for that is to be able to create the consistency for uh those that might not know of the company or organization. 00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:02.159 That's right. 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:02.800 That's right. 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:21.840 And and that's so well said because uh and guys, I know you know, a a lot of the pastors in our network who are listening to this um and beyond, I know that it's it's hard to think of, it's it's not the the first place that your mind goes to think of your small church that's just you know out there ministering to the community as a brand. 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:31.360 Um necessarily, but it really the the exact use whatever words you want to, but the exact same principles really do apply. 00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:45.920 Um, if you will build consistency with your visual elements or you know, whatever that particular thing is for you with your social graphics or your on-screen presentations and things of that nature, it will build trust with your audience. 00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:47.199 It really will. 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:48.719 Yep, exactly. 00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:51.519 And that and that's what you want, especially in the church space. 00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:53.679 So um all right. 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:58.480 Well, let's kind of uh put a bow on this and um put all five of these together. 00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.239 So we've covered uh hierarchy, contrast, spacing, consistency. 00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:06.800 Um, and I think that we've we've done a really good job of that. 00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:17.760 Um let's let's bring Canva in here for a second, though, because I know that so much of our our audience is using Canva, um especially so many of our volunteers um at churches. 00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:22.079 Um this this feels like a natural spot to at least kind of mention this.

00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:40.239 Um tell me what you, John, what you think about Canva when it comes to things like being able to do repetition with um fonts and Canva will allow you to build out, um, especially if you have the pro version of Canva, it will allow you to build out like brand kits and you know things of that nature. 00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:47.599 But I I know that you and I, we were trained on and learned the Adobe Suite and all of that kind of stuff. 00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:58.559 And there's kind of been for years now this like you know back and forth between, you know, folks like us and then when Canva came onto the scene, it kind of rocked all of that. 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:02.400 And so So, what are your thoughts on Canva? 00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:03.920 Is Canva dangerous? 00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:05.280 Can Canva be used well? 00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:08.400 Should it be a combination of Canva and two or three other things? 00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:16.239 I I think that, you know, Canva can give you some great tools, but just like anything else, it can't make the ultimate design decision for you, right? 00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:17.599 Like how does that work? 00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:18.800 Yeah. 00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:21.360 Um uh is it great? 00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:22.400 Is it dangerous? 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:24.400 Yes, it's all the above. 00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:25.280 All of the above. 00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:26.639 Same with everything. 00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:38.000 If I I'm thinking about the cup of coffee that I finished and it's now cold, I'm like, it's dangerous that I could just keep drinking it and I'll have what happened last night is I couldn't sleep. 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:38.320 Why? 00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:41.599 Because I drank coffee uh or and Dr. 00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:42.639 Pepper too late. 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:47.119 And so now I have an issue that I stayed up until 12 30. 00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:50.239 And that's an issue because I have to have life. 00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:53.440 My watch does not need to listen to this episode. 00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:56.880 So it's we're already in trouble, man. 00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:57.760 Yeah, right. 00:44:57.840 --> 00:44:59.280 Uh well, it's been good, guys. 00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:00.159 No, just kidding. 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:04.800 Um, so Canva is uh, I honestly I think it's great. 00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:11.840 Uh, it's also another tool, and that's simply all that that is, all that Photoshop is. 00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:13.519 It's nothing different. 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:19.199 Um, is a hammer better than a saw or a drill or a level? 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:25.039 No, they're just different tools to be able to do the certain things that you're wanting to do. 00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:25.840 That's right. 00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:30.639 And so uh having the tools accessible to you, I think, are great. 00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:39.679 Um it it is um it also at the same time, is a little bit uh, I guess uh we have written here dangerous. 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:45.280 It could be a little bit dangerous because then, oh, because I have a hammer, I could use a hammer. 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:46.719 Well, right. 00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:55.039 My son is 10, and when he was four, he had a hammer in his hand, but that doesn't mean that he knows that he has a hammer. 00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:55.519 That's right. 00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:58.880 And so it's like, yes, you can use Canva and things like this. 00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:01.039 And this is not me trying to slam anybody. 00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:21.119 It's like I think it's great because now I actually, as a designer, can create a brand guide and branding and to be able to help small churches um that we want to help to be able to connect and create these, you know, pieces and stuff like that by themselves, which is awesome because then you can go faster and everything like that. 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:21.760 Oh, yeah. 00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:31.199 Also at the same time, it's you know, again, it's dangerous because you're able to kind of go off by yourself and do whatever, you know, kind of thing. 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:34.559 And so um, having those accessible is great. 00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:39.599 It's also dangerous at the same time because then everyone will say, Well, I'm a graphic designer and all this stuff. 00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:50.400 I'm like, Yeah, but do you think about again the weird psychology things that we think about and why this should work here, why this goes here, why this should not go here, and things like that. 00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:54.960 And then I mean, uh uh a little bit more into brand guides. 00:46:55.039 --> 00:47:11.360 You know, you're talking about, you know, creating a logo for a church, you know, having a brand guide, I think, is super helpful uh uh to be able to not just do whatever and to make sure again back to the consistency thing and you know these principles that we're talking about. 00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:26.400 There's reasons why the graphic designers don't want to hand over the keys, is because one, uh, as a graphic designer for churches and creating brands and stuff like that, like I cringe if someone takes my logo and changes it. 00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:30.320 Not because I'm amazing and look at my logo. 00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:33.519 It's we made a logo for this specific reason. 00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:40.639 I made it look this way for a specific reason, and there's more than just I just made it something. 00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:41.360 That's right. 00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:49.280 Um, and so um yes, I want, you know, um uh stay with the hammer stuff. 00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:58.000 Like, yeah, I want my son to use a hammer, but I have to teach him how to use a hammer instead of just saying, All right, here's a hammer, buddy. 00:47:58.239 --> 00:47:59.039 See you later. 00:47:59.599 --> 00:47:59.920 Bye. 00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.559 And

then all of a sudden my windows are broken. 00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:04.159 He's like, I used the hammer. 00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:05.760 My you did. 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.880 I didn't teach you, and now it's broken. 00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:16.800 And you know, so and to our and to our point from earlier, it's like if if you're gonna use a hammer but you don't know how to use it, you don't have the foundational principles, right? 00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:20.960 It's the little things like hierarchy and contrast and spacing and alignment. 00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:29.440 If you just jump into Canva or Photoshop or Illustrator or any of these other things, and you don't have those foundational principles, you don't know what you're doing. 00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:32.000 Um none of us, none of us would. 00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:40.559 Um Yeah, and I think that that that's why um I'm I'm glad that we brought this up at the end of this, is to be able to say, like, hey, have these foundational things. 00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:41.119 Sure. 00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:45.760 And then add in, you know, using Canva and things like that. 00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:46.480 Yeah. 00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:46.880 Yeah. 00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:53.840 And and I think, guys, too, I mean, especially for our pastors that are listening, but everybody really, I mean, there's a biblical aspect to all of this too, right? 00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:58.639 I I had a verse that I thought about in the midst of uh putting some of the notes together for this um episode. 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:04.800 Um, from Habakkuk chapter two, in verse two, uh it says, write the vision and make it plain. 00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:10.159 Now, uh obviously this is not a graphic design passage, um, and we're not gonna pretend that it is. 00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:23.039 Um, but I think that that phrase make it plain was so helpful just as a communications reminder, um, because people should not have to work like unnecessarily hard to understand what you're trying to tell them, right? 00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:31.840 Um we say we say this all the time that in in ministry communication, clarity is kindness, but confusion can create friction, but clarity removes it. 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:45.440 So if you're working towards something like um learning what John and I have been talking about with hierarchy and contrast and alignment and spacing and trying to figure those things out, you're actually working towards communication. 00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:48.239 You're trying to communicate something with your graphic. 00:49:48.400 --> 00:50:00.800 Um and so I think that, you know, and John, you can speak to this some, but like sometimes when you're working through a particular graphic, sometimes it really is what you alluded to earlier in the episode. 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:05.039 It's just a matter of removing something that's unnecessary, right? 00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:08.559 It's it's just it's just an editing process. 00:50:08.719 -->

00:50:13.119 Um, so would you say that sometimes design really is just editing? 00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.159 It's just like taking out the stuff that's not supposed to be there. 00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:17.360 Yeah. 00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:20.400 Um, yeah, I think it is. 00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:30.639 You know, there's obviously a bounce, you know, and I think that, you know, you have to have certain things in there, but at the same time, certain things shouldn't be in there. 00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:34.800 So, you know, uh, we joke here in the Midwest. 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:49.920 Well, uh, I'm in Milwaukee, uh, Wisconsin, and we joke as saying, like, oh, do you gotta have, you know, for a men's group, you gotta have um, you know, a flannel uh pattern and or look or camo and you know outdoors stuff. 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.440 But it's like, well, you don't have to. 00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:58.320 And also at the same time, it might be good for it, um, but it's also not gonna be good for women's designs. 00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:01.760 And so it's like saying, what am I adding to this design? 00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:04.239 What am I taking away from the design? 00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:06.400 Um and stuff like that. 00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:25.599 But then at the same time, just because I'm in Wisconsin doesn't mean that just because I'm designing for a church in Wisconsin doesn't mean it has to have camo or um, you know, a flannel pattern because maybe it's a inner city uh uh church, you know, that I'm helping. 00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:28.079 And that's just not their vibe. 00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:30.719 And, you know, that's fine, that's great, you know. 00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:43.679 Um, or, you know, um churches in California, you know, they're probably not gonna have flannel uh something like they're gonna have, you know, surfboards because, you know, surfing. 00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:45.039 Exactly, exactly. 00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:47.280 Which which really hits on a great principle. 00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:51.199 Um, and we'll probably discuss this even more in future episodes of knowing your audience, right? 00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:54.400 I mean, you've got to know who you're communicating to. 00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:54.960 Oh, yeah. 00:51:55.199 --> 00:52:00.159 If you don't, if you don't know your audience, then it's almost like you're dead in the water um with any form of communication. 00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:02.480 So all right. 00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:05.440 Well, I'm gonna hit this uh lost sheet segment that we did last time. 00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:17.440 Um I kind of want to have this as a recurring segment on each episode where we try to bring something back into the fold that has kind of gotten a little wayward and lost in the design world, in the church communication space. 00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:25.360 So, since we're gonna talk about fonts in next week's episode, I thought we would talk about um too many fonts uh in a design. 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:32.480 How many fonts is okay is it okay to use before like, you know, an intervention or something is required? 00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:39.360 Um, because sometimes we see designs where it's like, oh my gosh, there's like 15 fonts in this design. 00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:42.320 So let's discuss this for a second here, John. 00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:48.480 Like, can one font family actually handle everything in a design? 00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:51.679 And if not, how far is too far? 00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:52.800 Like, is it two fonts? 00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:53.760 Is it three fonts? 00:52:53.920 --> 00:53:01.599 A lot of times in the graphic design space and world, like we we were all told, at least I know I was in design, it was no more than three. 00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:09.199 Um, and I think sometimes three can work with intention, but then if you start getting into like five and six, it's like eh, you're you're in the weeds there. 00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:14.800 Um, what is your perspective on this and how does this all kind of like work together in Turk's design? 00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:19.440 Yeah, I I mean I think it's uh I think what you've learned is great. 00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:24.320 I don't think that there's um I was gonna say two to three. 00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:28.239 Um I think that you know maxing it out is good. 00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:43.840 Um again, then if you're adding extra fonts and all this stuff, then you're you're losing the professionalism that you're probably wanting to uh uh pull across. 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:50.079 You know, yes, I understand that you know, we don't have to take ourselves serious and you know, stuff like that. 00:53:50.239 --> 00:54:04.559 We can have fun and everything, but at the same time, um uh having seven different fonts just looks a bit child, uh kind of like uh I wouldn't say childish, that's a pretty negative word. 00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:09.840 Um it just is a little bit more uh it's a bit more immature. 00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:12.719 Yeah, absolutely what I would maybe say. 00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:38.559 Um just because of, you know, um just again, so much going on, then it's uh back to your brain of saying, oh, okay, okay, now I have to like my brain has to switch from a cursive font to a sans serif font to a seraph font to uh a handwritten font to a tall font to a wide font. 00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:39.440 Oh my gosh. 00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:50.400 Then like my brain's kind of ebbing back and forth, again, making my brain work too hard for what I'm actually trying to uh make happen. 00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:51.840 So that's right. 00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:52.480 That's right. 00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:53.360 I would, yeah. 00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:57.519 So, anyways, uh short answer is I say probably two to three. 00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:01.679 Again, you know, uh having a font family. 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:11.519 Um and what that uh having a font family, I think is super helpful and making sure that

you know it has different weights. 00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:25.039 And uh I that's probably a technical term, the uh the font family, and what that all that means is just uh one kind of group of, you know, my last name is Carlson. 00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:29.440 So the Carlsons, there's different weights to my family. 00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:31.519 There's four weights because there's four of us. 00:55:31.599 --> 00:55:35.840 It's me, my wife, my son that's 10, and then my daughter that's eight. 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:38.960 We're all our own little weight, you know, kind of that's right. 00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:43.840 If you just uh just weigh us by ourselves, I'm the extra bold one. 00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:47.039 So that's a great analogy, man. 00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:47.599 I love that. 00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:48.639 And and he's right. 00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:54.400 I mean, in terms of like font families and stuff, I was working with one uh yesterday on that logo design project. 00:55:54.559 --> 00:56:00.480 It's like a great example would be um, you know, like the Montserrat font, Montserrat font. 00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:02.719 There's there's no idea how to say it. 00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:04.800 Several different weights to that one. 00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:06.239 Um, you've got light and bulk. 00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:08.400 Yeah, there's like 10, 15 or something like that. 00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:10.320 I'm like, is it it's great? 00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:11.360 Yeah, yeah. 00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:14.559 It's it's all all the same font family. 00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:16.400 Um, you can just make it look different. 00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:18.559 Um that's a that's a great point. 00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:19.519 Yeah, I love that. 00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:20.880 Um, really cool. 00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:21.760 All right, guys. 00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:23.440 Well, I'm gonna uh jump down. 00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:26.639 We'll we'll wrap this out and uh give you guys an assignment for this week. 00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:29.840 Um, we'll deal with a toolbox segment maybe on next week's episode. 00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:45.840 Um, but you I I want your assignment for this week um to be to take one of your graphics, something that your church has created recently, maybe with like social media, something that you designed for uh your screens or presentation uh software, and don't redesign it. 00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:50.159 Don't start over, don't change your church uh look or feel or anything like that. 00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:54.800 Just take that graphic and try to run it through the five principles that we discussed in this episode, right? 00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:59.920 Um ask yourself with hierarchy, where does my eye go first? 00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:04.400 With contrast, you need to ask yourself, can everything be easily read? 00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:08.960 With alignment, ask yourself, do the elements feel connected? 00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:13.840 Um, in terms of spacing, you should be asking, does everything have room to breathe on this graphic? 00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:18.800 And then with consistency, you just need to ask, does this look like it belongs to our church? 00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:21.760 Does it look like something we've created before? 00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:30.639 Um and I I really just I really want you guys to know that if you can master consistency, if you can master the first four, you're you're great. 00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:40.639 If you can master consistency, people will come to trust what you're putting out there, especially in the social media space where a lot of stuff is not trustworthy. 00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:46.079 Um and I just I think for the local church, especially that's that's really big. 00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:56.800 Um so don't try, don't feel like you have to fix everything um, you know, overnight or by the end of the weekend. 00:57:56.960 --> 00:58:01.920 We are not asking you to, you know, master graphic design. 00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:06.000 You're not trying to become the next Josh or John by the end of the show. 00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:15.119 Our whole philosophy here is just for you guys to start making really small improvements that will kind of compound over time. 00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:18.719 Um, just make the next thing better than the last thing. 00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:33.119 Um, and then you guys will start to kind of come to a place where it's like, hey, I can look at this graphic now that I either made or that my um volunteer or admin assistant purchased from a ready-made library and I can know what I need to fix about it. 00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:36.960 Or if I'm gonna add my own text to it, here's how I would do that and make it look right. 00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:44.960 Um, John, would you add anything else before we wrap out here on these uh five principles? 00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:48.320 Um, do you have any tips or pointers for our listeners? 00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:52.400 Uh no, I would just say take one at a time. 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:53.840 Um, yep. 00:58:54.079 --> 00:59:01.599 I try to teach myself and try to like learn it myself and also teach my kids that uh inch by inch, life's a cinch. 00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:07.039 Um, so we're trying to, you know, learn and grow. 00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:12.559 Like I'm not gonna, you know, uh be the best graphic designer tomorrow. 00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:14.639 I have to just progress. 00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:37.519 Uh I actually started getting into soccer, uh, back into soccer recently, and I'm not gonna be never gonna be Ronaldo, but uh at the same time, like I'm never gonna be the best on the pitch if I don't ever practice, if I don't ever small little, I just gotta dribble, learn to dribble, you know, learn what hierarchy means. 00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:44.800 Learn to have white space, learn contrast, learn these different things, uh, alignment and stuff like that. 00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:54.639 Um, so that uh the designs,

again, you know, like you said, Josh, is just getting better, you know, just a little bit one by one is great. 00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:56.880 So a little bit at a time, the guys. 00:59:56.960 --> 00:59:58.400 That's that's all that's all it is. 00:59:58.559 --> 01:00:09.039 It is not there's there's so much that we talk about, um, especially as designers, that can sound and feel overwhelming, but you don't need to let it overwhelm you. 01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:11.840 Um it is it is not uh overwhelming. 01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:17.039 Um it is just taking small steps to do the right things, uh, a little piece at a time, just like John said. 01:00:17.199 --> 01:00:26.880 So next week we'll we will actually uh take some time to kind of like zoom in on uh a couple of the smaller areas within these five principles we listed. 01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:39.679 We're gonna talk about fonts, uh, which will give John and I a really cool opportunity to kind of nerd out over fonts for a little while, because any good designer can nerd out over fonts for you know several hours on end, but we won't bore you guys with that. 01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:45.679 Um, we'll talk about color a little bit, um, and we'll kind of ask some questions like why do certain fonts work well together? 01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:48.880 Um, why do some fonts not work well together? 01:00:49.039 --> 01:00:56.719 Um, and when you're put laying down a font on a particular background color, like, you know, why should I choose a certain color for the background and the font? 01:00:56.800 --> 01:00:59.519 Yeah, contrast, stuff like that. 01:00:59.679 --> 01:01:01.920 Um, so yeah, we'll figure that out. 01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:06.800 Um and I think that's gonna be it for us today. 01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:14.000 Uh, John, man, thanks for hanging out and doing this with us um for episode two of the Digital Shepherd. 01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:22.800 I think uh I think we've covered some some good areas today that uh will kind of help our our listeners realize why some of their graphics might be a little bit off. 01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:25.599 And I think I could think I could consider that a win. 01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:32.639 Um if you're if you're looking at something and you you you just you start to realize there's something wrong with this graphic, that's a win for us. 01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:37.840 Um don't mean even if you want to go yeah, go deeper too. 01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:43.119 You're saying, okay, uh if you're taking notes, you know, oh what is the hierarchy on this? 01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:43.840 What is this? 01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:47.519 Label the things and yep, you know, find that stuff out. 01:01:48.159 --> 01:01:48.639 That's right. 01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:49.360 That's right. 01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:52.079 So don't feel like you have to fix it all today, guys. 01:01:52.159 --> 01:01:57.840 Just uh just take one thing, make some good notes, uh, make some better decisions, and then keep building out from there. 01:01:58.079 --> 01:02:01.440 Um, John, I will see you next week to talk about funds. 01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:02.960 Great, awesome. 01:02:03.199 --> 01:02:03.920 Thanks, Josh. 01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:04.960 We'll see ya. 01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:12.000 Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Digital Shepherd, a production of 614 Ministries. 01:02:12.079 --> 01:02:21.119 If today's conversation encouraged you or gave you something practical to put to work in your church, be sure to subscribe, share the show with a fellow ministry leader, and join us again next week. 01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:25.679 As always, you can email us direct at josh at 614ministries.org. 01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:30.000 And remember, excellence isn't about having the biggest budget or the fanciest equipment. 01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:33.440 It's about faithfully stewarding what God has placed in your hands. 01:02:33.679 --> 01:02:37.840 Until next time, keep creating, keep communicating, and keep shepherding well.