บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ #0036 SKETCH AVENUE - ELEVATING IN A CHALLENGE!

--> 00:05:07.680 Yeah, only about a year and a half ago. 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:24.079 Which is kind of mad because as we're sat here now, you've got pieces that you've sold in LA, Dubai, you've sold out markets, you've been part of a television show called Be Your Own Boss, which was Holly Tucker, the founder of Not on the High Street. 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:24.959 Correct, yeah. 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.199 And she sort of acts as like a mentor. 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:28.800 She has been there. 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:29.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:32.399 So there's been this quite fast progression through it. 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:33.759 There has, strangely. 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:36.879 I wasn't expecting any of it, or I hadn't really planned for any of it either. 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:40.959 Just started doing what I love doing, not knowing that I actually loved ceramics. 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.040 And then it just it's just evolved. 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:49.759 Just got me out of the house, meeting people, talking to people every day, meeting other creatives, and the work just got developed. 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:55.199 Is this the point where we need to go backwards a bit and talk about the journey to get there? 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:56.079 Possibly. 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:58.240 Because you actually studied fine art. 00:05:58.480 --> 00:05:58.879 I did. 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:02.160 I studied fine art over 25 years ago, I think. 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:04.639 Did you do any ceramics as part of that? 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:07.040 I think I did a little bit. 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:08.399 I made a cup. 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:09.600 You made a cup? 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:13.839 I made a cup, I made a giant cup, a giant blue cup and saucer in my degree. 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:16.639 But I didn't really uh follow that through or anything. 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:19.360 It was more installation work that I was focused on. 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:21.600 Can we talk a little bit about that? 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:29.199 Because like you say, it was lots of installation work experimenting with virtual environments and public spaces. 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:33.279 And then you said something to me that I wrote down that I didn't let you explain when we spoke. 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:35.839 What is an intimidation space? 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:37.519 I knew you were gonna say that. 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:47.040 So I used to have dreams when I was little, and I'd always be like in this place or this city, and these buildings were so vast and so big they'd just haunt me. 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:50.319 That's where the intimidation of space came from. 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:53.279 And I found with my art, I played with that. 00:06:53.600 --> 00:07:19.120 So I'd make sculptures, like spatial sculptures, so like white dental plaster, really shiny bowls would be like placed inside them, or really colour blocky kind of shapes, mainly block bowls I embedded into plaster, and then I'd create these like little videos where there was like people standing on the edge, like almost on the edge that you you could fall off, or people tearing in really uncomfortably, and things like that. 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:20.720 So that's interesting. 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:22.000 Why bowls? 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:27.279 Because obviously, then my my quick thinking that connects to the ceramics later on. 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:29.199 So you can't climb out of a bowl. 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:30.959 You can't climb out of a bowl. 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:32.639 So that was intimidation factor. 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:34.160 Is that like crabs in a bucket? 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:36.560 Yeah, but then that's interesting. 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:54.720 So you did your fine art degree and you were headhunted after your degree show as a result of these kind of spaces, these installations, these that led to essentially a 10-year-plus career working with luxury developments across the world with interior design and spaces. 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:58.720 And you worked with a an exciting young company in in London. 00:07:59.360 --> 00:07:59.839 Correct. 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:21.600 I worked for a company in London who had the advantage of a lot of investment, which meant we had a lot of free reign in what we produced as the interiors, or essentially our artworks, and they were show apartments, so we could go all out and source from all over the world and create these really intense, immersive spaces. 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:26.720 And with that, we could bring in lots of technology that hadn't been used before. 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:36.159 You spoke about in a pre-sort of Netflix age where you were doing all this stuff and kitting all these places out with these servers that you could just access any film. 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:38.000 I mean, now that seems like completely normal. 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:42.639 You just go on Netflix Prime, whatever these, we're not endorsed by any of these, by the way. 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:44.080 If they want to sponsor us, they can. 00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:46.799 Um But you can just find whatever, can't you? 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:48.559 But this was a while ago, didn't we? 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:49.759 Oh, this is a while ago. 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:54.480 Um, so this is going back 18 years, maybe, maybe longer. 00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:02.720 But we basically had servers that had all the films put on them, depending on whether they wanted 200 films, 300 films, whatever. 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:11.279 And they'd play out this server, which was in your kind of plant room in your house with all the other electronic gibbons that operated your house. 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:14.320 So panic rooms, lighting, heating, whatever. 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:15.679 Oh, they were that extreme. 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:16.480 There were panic rooms. 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:17.440 There were

panic rooms. 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.080 I can't even imagine having a real panic room. 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:24.159 What were they kitted out with these panic rooms? 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:28.240 So everything looks pretty normal, but in case of an emergency, everything shuts down. 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:30.720 So they're basically in this safe box. 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:32.080 Yeah, a safe box. 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:32.799 Yeah. 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:35.679 So these are these are clients with mega money? 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:37.360 Yeah, I would say so. 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.039 And could be endangered. 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:42.559 Oh yeah, I suppose the more money you have, the more likely, I guess. 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:46.320 Not a world I'm ever gonna be a part of, I don't think. 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:48.240 But that must be interesting. 00:09:48.399 --> 00:10:01.759 And how was I mean, you weren't putting bowls in these spaces, I'm guessing, but how was the crossover from what you were doing at university in these installations moving into the interiors of these wealthy? 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.039 I think it was the freedom of material use. 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:15.519 So I was able to source materials from all sorts of places, quarries where I could handpick the marble or the granite or whatever it was. 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:21.600 I was able to go out to say somewhere in Italy or whatever, and actually handpick the grain, handpick the pattern. 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:27.360 And that was something really unreal because it's not nothing I imagined I'd be doing in my wildest dream and in my 20s. 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:28.559 I didn't really appreciate it. 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:30.320 I just thought, oh, this is just work. 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:32.799 And looking back now, I'm just like, wow. 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:35.919 Yeah, I had no concept of what I was actually doing. 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:40.080 It just seemed like a very unrealistic world looking back now. 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:43.360 But when you're in it, you just sort of get wrapped up, oh, that's completely normal. 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:45.519 I'm going to an Italian quarry to pick some marble. 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:46.240 That's it. 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:46.879 That's it. 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:47.840 You don't think about it. 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:56.720 It's like, right, I need to source this and I need it yesterday, so I need to go now, pick out everything, have everything milled, and put on a boat to ship around the coast. 00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:57.440 Wow. 00:10:57.679 --> 00:10:59.360 That's quite the job though, isn't it? 00:10:59.519 --> 00:10:59.759 Really? 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:05.840 I mean, when the budgets increase, I guess does creativity increase for you guys? 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:08.879 I think creative freedom increases. 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:17.200 Not necessarily creativity, but I think having access to all these components certainly help when you're building something or designing something. 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:22.159 You know, you can go out and you can look at material, you can touch material, you can experiment with material. 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:27.120 I think that the developing side of things is funded. 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:37.360 So then you're able to express what you want using the materials that are right for you, as opposed to being limited to say MDF and it can only go so far. 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:39.120 Well, budget, budget restrictions. 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:40.639 Exactly, exactly. 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:44.480 And it sounds like, from what we've discussed, it sounds like it was quite intense. 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:48.080 Long hours, very demanding, not many holidays. 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:49.200 No, not many holidays. 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:52.320 Burnout on every round every corner by the sound of it. 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:54.720 Yeah, I don't think I had a holiday for about seven years. 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:55.200 Really? 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:56.159 Yeah, yeah. 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.080 It was just constantly on the go. 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:03.679 And one of the projects that I worked on lasted the best part of five and a half years, so there was no definitely no holidays. 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:04.159 Wow. 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:05.200 During that time. 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:05.840 Yeah. 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:10.000 I've sold on the promise that you could take as much time off as you needed when you needed it. 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:13.840 If you had the availability, it turned out we didn't have any availability to take any time off. 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:15.440 And that puts pressure on, right? 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:16.399 It puts pressure on. 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:19.360 It's it becomes your lifestyle, it becomes everything you do. 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:21.440 Did you feel that when you were in it? 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:25.360 Was there, I mean, I suppose during the early days of it, it's probably just exciting. 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:30.480 But what was the point where you got a bit like, oh god, this is so intense? 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:38.399 I think the moment where I where it started to get really intense was when we had a an A V project for a client who was very well known. 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:39.840 And that's audio visual project. 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:40.879 That's audio visual. 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:46.320 And uh that was my turning point of my and I was just a bit like that's not what I want to do. 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:48.399 Like, I want to work in audiovisual. 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:56.720 But it was exciting because it was something I didn't know about and something I actually found interesting, and then just went head first into it all. 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:05.200 So you were really working across so interior design, sourcing products, and then all down to the technology, the panic rooms,

all these. 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:10.799 It sounds so diverse across the spectrum of ininverted commas interior design. 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:14.639 Absolutely, down to like plumbing and electrical circuits. 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:16.480 What was the worst bit of it? 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:17.840 Funnily enough, right? 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:19.679 The worst bit was actually the final finishes. 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:23.519 Because by the time we get to final finishes, I didn't care anymore. 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:24.159 Oh really? 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:24.799 I don't care anymore. 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:29.440 There's just so much coming together. 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.879 It's just towards the end where you've got to do, I don't know, like curtains and cushions. 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:35.759 Just like soft furnishings on, but you know. 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:37.600 Listen, let's just get someone to come and do that. 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:38.960 I just made a panic room. 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.200 I don't care what cushions you can put in it. 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:42.399 Exactly. 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:43.840 It was yeah. 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:49.679 I used to think that final finishes were gonna be the thing that I was gonna be most excited about. 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:54.080 But I went in there not knowing anything about interior design and interior architecture. 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:58.320 I learned everything day by day on the job, as and when it came up. 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:09.200 What do you think they saw in your degree show that made them think, whoa, this person's gonna be brilliant for our young, exciting, up-and-coming design business? 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:12.000 I think it was really playful without me actually realizing. 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:21.919 I was creating spaces that could be changed without changing the space, so with lighting or by moving a couple of objects and things, and it could change the environment quite drastically. 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:28.960 It can make it really cold or really warm or really cozy or whatever, but just by moving a few elements, and I think that's what they saw in my degree show. 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:31.919 So, yeah, just manipulating space. 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:39.440 I just asked a question because this idea of the intimidation spaces, it doesn't sound very friendly, welcoming, warm. 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:39.840 No. 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.720 And I think to myself, oh, what I wonder what that design company thought. 00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:49.279 Oh god, yo, let's let's get the girl that did the really intimidating spaces in to do all these really expensive interior designs. 00:14:49.519 --> 00:15:03.360 I mean, I might be wrong, but I think if they just saw that I wasn't fearful of the project brief, I would just go and push it as far as I could and push myself to the limits and not really have any kind of like reservation about presenting an idea. 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:05.279 Did you feel quite fearless back then? 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.559 I had no awareness. 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:07.840 I just had no awareness. 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.519 I was just like, right, this is what I I'm feeling and this is what I'm planning to do. 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.519 And you know, it wasn't even a case of what do you think? 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:19.919 But a lot of the time, it was like, I really want to do this, it's gonna look like this, it's gonna feel like this, and this is what we need, and blah, blah, blah, whatever. 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.960 And it's just I think my lack of awareness probably um got me up a few steps. 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:31.519 I think as I've got older, I've become more aware of things, and that limits sort of creativity in some way. 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:33.039 That's interesting. 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:33.519 Yeah. 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:36.320 Because I think that ties into some of the story later. 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.840 But it seems like yeah, the fearlessness of youth. 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:46.320 I mean, you don't call it fearlessness, but I think there is that maybe that naivety where you say where you just go, no, I really want to do this. 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:46.720 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:48.240 So can we? 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:49.200 Exactly. 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.039 And if we can't, how can we? 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:52.240 Yeah, exactly. 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.080 And that's problem solving, isn't it? 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:54.559 Exactly. 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:55.919 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:57.600 And you move to London? 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.120 I moved down there because I wanted to get into this company. 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:02.240 That's pretty cool. 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:09.039 And then it went on to lead to panic rooms, sourcing marble, exactly, audio, visual, films on servers, pre-Netflix. 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:09.440 Yeah. 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:10.720 That's very cool. 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:11.200 Yeah. 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:13.360 I must have taught you a lot. 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:15.519 It absolutely did. 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:16.879 It taught me. 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:31.919 I'm not the best organized person, but it taught me to be sharp on my organization skills and have everything, every document prepared and ready and every answer to every question, because it was going to be questioned by the investors continuously because ultimately they were funding it. 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:36.240 If there's 20 grand on a projector, we want to know whether why is it costing us 20,000 pounds? 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.480 Like what's so special about that projector. 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:39.279 Exactly. 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:40.720 So, yeah. 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:42.320 Had to answer every question. 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:44.000 And you were doing these big projects. 00:16:44.080 -->

00:16:46.240 You even did did you do the whole house in? 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:47.600 Is that where the Beatles used? 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.200 Um yeah, where the Beatles used to hang out back in their heyday. 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.360 That's quite a cool claim to fame as well. 00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:54.639 Yeah, it is pretty cool. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:57.919 But again, in my twenties, I had no concept. 00:16:58.399 --> 00:16:59.519 No, you don't though, do you? 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:00.159 You just do. 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:02.399 You just do it and go, yep, this is the stuff I'm doing. 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.000 And then I guess with hindsight, you go back and go, God, that was That was pretty spectacular. 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:06.960 Pretty cool. 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:07.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:08.319 Totally. 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:15.759 So we've spoken about the pressures of the job, but you also said it it felt quite a lot of pressure being a woman in that job. 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:16.960 Absolutely. 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:17.599 Why? 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.680 Can we talk a little bit more about that? 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:24.400 Well, I was definitely the youngest in the team, which was already notable. 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.160 And there just wasn't many women in that industry at all. 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:29.839 I mean, ultimately it was construction. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:38.799 You say interiors, but ultimately you're on a building site day in, day out, measuring and working things out, and that comes away before any design work goes in. 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:40.720 There was never any women on site. 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:45.279 There were builders, surveyors, architects, and very few women. 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.880 I think we had one girl who was the health and safety officer. 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:49.680 That was it. 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:53.440 I think I was the only female in a team of 170 people. 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:54.160 Wow. 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:54.640 Yeah. 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:55.680 Okay, yeah. 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:58.640 That's not a very diverse group of people, really, is it? 00:17:58.960 --> 00:17:59.680 No, no. 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.680 Did you feel like you had to prove yourself in that male-dominated world? 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:04.160 Yeah. 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:16.480 I mean, I don't think I realised at the time, but I looking back now, definitely I was constantly like trying to elevate and prove myself to be like the same as everybody else, where we shouldn't have to be. 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:29.279 But yeah, definitely felt the pressure from like the male design team of this like young girl coming in and wanting to do XYZ and like really ambitious plans to change things. 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.000 And there was a lot of sort of like, well, we don't do that. 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.000 And it's like, well, why not? 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:35.039 It was like, why not? 00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:36.079 And why can't we? 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.519 Or let's just try it. 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.039 How I maybe look at like younger people now going, Well, are you sure? 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:42.079 Right, okay. 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:47.440 Yeah, I suppose you've got some young buck coming in and going, they want to do it this way, but we've never done it that way. 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:48.640 Exactly. 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.440 And then as a woman, you met a partner. 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:54.240 Yep. 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:57.279 And your boss at the time didn't really like that. 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:04.079 He sort of future thought the process and was like, Oh, this one woman in 170 people, she's got a womb. 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:05.440 She's gonna want to get pregnant. 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.200 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:14.160 I called him on the Sunday before I was coming back to London to say that I'd got some news and he said I don't want to hear it. 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:15.200 Really? 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:16.960 Because he'd already preempted what that was. 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.160 Yeah, he was like, No, I don't want to hear it, I don't want to know. 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:25.200 You're just gonna leave and have a baby and have a family, and that's gonna be your most important thing in your life. 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:28.640 And I was like, Yeah, I still want to do my job. 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:29.039 Right. 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.599 You know, that shouldn't alienate me from my work. 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:32.799 Um did it. 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:33.599 It did. 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.480 It did. 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:40.079 It pushed me into a corner and I was treated very differently after I announced that. 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.200 It actually meant that I ended up handing in my notice. 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:44.160 Oh, is that bad? 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:45.839 Yeah, yeah, it got really silly. 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:46.480 Yeah. 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:47.039 Yeah. 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:53.920 I went completely freelance, moved up to Warwickshire and worked on the areas of the project. 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.559 I said you almost felt like you were just starting again. 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.799 Yeah, it was, but it was also, I think it was the right time to make that move as well. 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:03.440 Did you feel like you were burning out a little bit? 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:04.480 I was burnt out. 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:10.000 I was definitely burnt out and uh yeah, I needed a change of scenery, I needed a new challenge. 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:17.759 And I think that was a time where I started to evaluate how the longevity in actually doing what I was doing was going to be. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.119 Because it you couldn't do that. 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.880 It's like traders, they burn

out, you know, it's intense, it's 18-hour days. 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.000 You can't sustain that for any kind of normal life. 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.519 Sounds like it's 18-hour days travelling, demanding clients. 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.359 So then you meet your ex-partner, you're pregnant. 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:34.160 Yeah. 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:35.680 Do we want to discuss? 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:36.640 Should we go down this way? 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:40.160 I mean, we we started by saying, you know, elevating a challenge. 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:40.480 Yes. 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:45.759 And I want to sort of express that life hasn't always been the easiest for you, has it, Aisha? 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.359 No, sometimes some of the challenges I take on aren't the right challenges. 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.160 But due to my naivety, I take them on nonetheless. 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.240 Okay, should we talk a little bit more about that? 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:58.400 Yeah, so my boss was absolutely right when he said this guy is gonna run you to the ground. 00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:01.920 And he was talking about my partner that got with, and he did. 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:04.000 Do you want to say a bit more? 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:05.119 What in what way? 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:18.319 He was abusive and controlling, and tried to dis dictate every element of my life and having got pregnant, he actually announced that he owns me. 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.599 I beg your pardon? 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:20.240 Yes. 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:22.319 He actually said that out loud. 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:22.720 Yeah. 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.599 He got very violent and physically abusive. 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:30.240 So that had to come to a head in the end. 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.279 Yeah. 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:35.039 And what did that feel like for you? 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:40.400 But bearing in mind you'd sort of had your boss tell you that this guy was gonna do this. 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:46.319 And I guess my question is what is your mental state when you've got a baby? 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:53.039 You've split up from this abusive partner when you're a single parent, you've got to kind of process like that? 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:54.559 Absolutely. 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:58.079 My entire life plan turned itself on its head. 00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:59.279 Well, that's what I sort of mean. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:16.319 This high-flying world of jetting around choosing marbles and yeah, you know, doing locations up where the Beatles have stayed, just suddenly being, oh, I've got a baby and I'm back in the Midlands and what the hell do I do? 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:17.440 And this is my whole point. 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:17.839 Yeah, yeah. 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.039 Elevating a challenge. 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:20.799 You are in a challenging spot now. 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:21.279 Yeah. 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.960 What's your mindset like at that point when you're I was a mess. 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:25.440 Really? 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:28.880 Yeah, I was I could not think for the life of me. 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:31.680 Like everything felt like it was moving so fast around me. 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:33.119 But I couldn't get on that train. 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:36.000 I couldn't figure out which door to take or anything. 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:37.920 You know, do I move back to London? 00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:39.920 Do I go back into the same industry? 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:41.440 But then what do I do with my child? 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.359 I'm a single parent, his father wants nothing to do with him, so I'm going to be bringing him up on my own. 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:46.960 Can I afford to do that in London? 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:49.920 How safe would I feel in London bringing up a child of my own? 00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:51.920 Do I need to be around friends and family? 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:53.519 Do I need to move to the countryside? 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:54.400 What do I need to do? 00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:56.079 It was lots and lots of choices. 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.400 I came to Birmingham because one of my best friends lived in Birmingham. 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:11.200 And I ended up moving in with my best friend, and he helped me with knowing the sort of early kind of stages while we got settled, found a new home. 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:21.759 But it was just, I think it was like three to four years of absolute chaos and handing my son around to people so I could do a little bit of freelance work here, a bit of photography here, a bit of this here, a bit of that here. 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.559 This is where your overall creativity comes in, isn't it? 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:31.519 You're literally just using all of these skill sets to try and support a young baby that's. 00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:32.799 Should we talk about Noah? 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:33.119 Yeah. 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:34.880 He's not a young baby anymore, is he? 00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.200 No, he's 15, he's going to be 16 this year. 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:37.680 It's nuts. 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.480 But Noah had some challenges, didn't he, when he was younger? 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:41.680 Noah did have some challenges. 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.759 Noah still has the challenges, but we just we manage those challenges differently. 00:23:45.839 --> 00:24:05.119 So Noah is autistic, he's ADHD, and he has developmental coordination disorder, which means he struggles with like spaces and gripping things and managing his kind of surrounding spaces and which seems a bit interrelated to what you were doing at university, what you've done for a long time. 00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:09.599 Yeah, I think Noah's shed a huge spotlight on me. 00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:16.559 You know, the whole thing about apples and trees, and Noah's challenges have taught me a lot about

myself. 00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:22.400 And some of the things that I struggled with as a kid that weren't seen when we were younger. 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:25.839 Whose challenges have taught me to be an adult. 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:27.359 Can you say more about that? 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:28.160 What do you mean? 00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.279 I know you know what you mean, but I'd like to try and expand on that if we can. 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:35.519 I think before I was mum, I was kind of naive to the world. 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:48.319 And I thought everybody was like really lovely and really supportive, and you just bounce like a bouncy ball through life, and you get the results you want, and you have a nice time along the way. 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:54.000 But having got together with his dad and having Noah, it really turned everything on its head. 00:24:54.160 --> 00:25:00.160 It took me to a really dark place where I could not understand how anybody could be so unkind. 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:05.440 And actually, I had not planned to bring up a child on my own. 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:15.519 And having thought about when I do have a child, the kind of life I'd want to give my child was very different to what I was able to offer him at that point, and it made me really upset. 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:29.039 And I was constantly sort of resentful to myself for not being able to provide what I wanted to provide for him, and that was the absolute basics, you know, which you would expect food and a roof. 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:33.359 There was a point where I couldn't provide that for him, and I had to seek help. 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:40.240 And growing up as the sixth child to my parents, I always learnt to fend for myself. 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:46.000 I was always last in line, so I always figured it out and worked it out and never had to go to my parents for anything. 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:48.720 Are you thankful for that now with Time Slow? 00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:56.079 Absolutely, absolutely, because I think that taught me so much resilience and so much like troubleshooting, problem solving. 00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:58.319 Okay, we've got this situation, what we're gonna do. 00:25:58.480 --> 00:25:59.599 It didn't come easy. 00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:01.440 Which is what creativity is, isn't it? 00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:02.240 Problem solving. 00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:02.559 Yeah. 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.759 And can we just talk to me a little bit about the family? 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:11.920 Because I remember we had a conversation about obviously the creative path is not one that parents like us to pursue. 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:14.799 No, they want you to be a I don't know, academic. 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:16.160 Academic of some sort. 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:16.960 Yeah, no. 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:18.799 So my siblings are all academics. 00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:19.839 And that's what I mean. 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:20.640 That's kind of interesting. 00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:23.039 Yeah, the sixth child that's had to do all the problem solving. 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:23.279 Yeah. 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:24.640 No wonder you're the creative one. 00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:25.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:26.400 No, totally. 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:31.920 When it came to going to university, my parents were adamant that I was going to do an academic degree. 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:37.039 They wanted me to study law and get a proper job and able to support myself. 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:39.759 And how did they feel when you said I want to do fine art? 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:44.640 Um, they they didn't take it too well to the point that I lied to them for about a year. 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.359 Really? 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.680 And you actually lied to them for a year and they thought you were doing something a different degree. 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:51.359 It took a while to uh convince. 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:54.559 It took a few um exposed life drawings to bring it to light. 00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:55.200 Really? 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:55.839 Yeah. 00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:57.359 It took it took a while. 00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:03.519 But then it wasn't accepted until I got my first job after university, really, because it was like, well, what are you gonna do? 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:04.160 You're gonna paint walls? 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:04.799 What are you gonna do? 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:06.079 You're gonna what are you gonna do with this? 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:06.240 Right. 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:07.279 Fine art degree. 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:10.880 You know, you're gonna do some pictures in your sketchbook, they're not gonna earn you any money. 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:12.480 There was a lot of that. 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:16.960 I mean, you lied to them for a year, so you really I was scared. 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:25.119 I understand that, but what I'm also trying to get at with the listeners is that you made certain sacrifices to follow your creative dream. 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:25.839 I did. 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:26.559 I did. 00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:32.400 And when you were very much under pressure to follow that like your siblings, that academic route. 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:32.720 Yeah. 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:34.240 When you had to lie about it. 00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:38.880 But but everything works out for the best in the end. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.559 So this time with Noah, you're on your own. 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:45.519 The challenges are there, you're doing anything you can. 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:46.400 Yep. 00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:50.400 To put food on the table, keep a roof over his head. 00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:51.039 Yeah. 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:53.519 Keep yourselves healthy, sane. 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:53.920 Yeah. 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:55.359 All of those things. 00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:00.079 So whilst I didn't know about all of his

neurodiversities at this stage, I knew nothing about it. 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.759 How did you end up noticing those things within? 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.079 I didn't really notice so much. 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:11.440 So when he went to nursery in Birmingham, they pulled me to the side and said, Look, we think he's got some challenges. 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:21.599 And because I was so overwhelmed by moving to Birmingham, not having a home, not having any of the kind of basics, I was literally like, Look, I need to go to work for the two days that you have him. 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:22.960 I can't cope with anything else. 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:24.400 You do what you need to do, kind of thing. 00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:32.160 And left it to the nursery, who then handed it over to the school, and they started to seek sort of diagnosis or assessment for his autism. 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.839 That was the first thing that they picked up on. 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.119 Were they explaining to you how it was manifesting within him? 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:38.960 No, there was nothing. 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:40.799 I didn't know anything about autism. 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:43.279 I didn't know anything about neurodiversities. 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.880 It was just completely new to me. 00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:48.000 I just thought this child doesn't speak and he's just a boy. 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:49.519 Maybe he's just going to take a bit longer. 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:51.200 How long was he non-verbal for? 00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.039 About five years, maybe five years and a half. 00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:53.200 Yeah. 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:54.720 That must have been quite concerning. 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:56.000 It was upsetting. 00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:56.880 It was upsetting. 00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:01.519 I had a three-year-old nephew that could speak and do everything, but my son couldn't. 00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:04.079 And I was looking for reasons why he couldn't. 00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:06.720 And it was like, oh, maybe it's because he's not around other children. 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:12.079 Maybe it's because he's always with me and other adults, that he doesn't feel like he needs to play with other kids. 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:13.839 And he wasn't very good at playing with children. 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.039 He was always quite engaging with adults, but not so much with children. 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:18.240 I didn't think anything of it. 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.279 I thought it was just, I don't know, I've got no comparable. 00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:26.240 So and not another sort of not a partner that you can bounce things off, talk about your child together. 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:27.519 That's a lot of pressure, isn't it? 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:27.920 Yeah. 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:29.200 For you, I'm talking about. 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:33.759 I mean, I'm I wonder how Noah must have been coping, but for yourself, that

must be. 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:38.720 It was hard, but looking back, I didn't realise it was hard because I just thought that's what you did. 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:39.599 So I just did it. 00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.960 I suppose hindsight's such a crazy thing, isn't it? 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:52.079 When you look back and now we live in a time of neurodivergence, information is quite readily available for people and it's out there. 00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:57.599 So creativity and all of that sort of stuff just takes a complete side note. 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.799 And the focus for the next what 10 years is Noah. 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:11.680 So what are you what are you doing in that time yourself when you're focused on Noah and trying to raise him with his challenges? 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:25.920 I think I came to the point where I very slowly and resentfully, I'll put my hand up to that, realised that I was going to be his like sole parent, and I was completely responsible for everything that went into him. 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.200 And then I just, it was like, nah, this is my mission. 00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:35.119 This is my 100% mission to make sure that this little boy has all the nutrients that he needs. 00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:38.319 And I don't mean, you know, things he eats a bit like the way he's brought up. 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:39.680 All the inputs are possibly. 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.920 Noah drove me to do what I was doing. 00:30:48.160 --> 00:31:01.039 I struggled for so long with I just want to go back to my industry, I want to go back to my career, but I've got to be responsible for this little guy who I want to be responsible for, but quite rightly I should have some help in this, but I don't. 00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:04.240 So I was quite resentful for our relationship for a long period of time. 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:11.680 That's like there was this love-hate thing going on for this guy, this little thing is stopping me doing the career that I love, all these creative things that I love. 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:13.279 Yeah, which was bizarre. 00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:20.880 And then it got to the stage where I think no was about seven, and he started getting really upset and saying, Mummy, I'm stopping from doing what you love doing. 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:22.240 And I'm he was picking up. 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:23.519 He was picking up on this. 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:28.799 And I it took a couple of times, and I was like, Hold on, I'm doing this all completely wrong. 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:30.559 He should never feel like that. 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:32.480 He should not feel this at all. 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.359 What am I doing that's making him feel like this? 00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:39.440 What was it that you felt that you were doing that he might have been picking up on? 00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:52.240 I just think maybe conversations I was having quite openly with friends and family and things, not considering that he was actually taking this in and not realizing the impact it was having on him because he was starting to understand. 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.160 I think he's always understood, but wasn't as vocal or verbal. 00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:02.000 And seeing him upset, saying, I really want you to do what you want to do and you have to look after me. 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:04.480 It was God, that must have been heartbreaking. 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:05.920 Yeah, really hard. 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:07.359 And we're so close. 00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.000 We would be naturally because we're all always together. 00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:12.400 That was probably the turning point of I realised. 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.440 I was like, no, this guy should never feel like this. 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:23.119 I am everything to him, and I need to be, you know, until he's old enough, until sort of the tables turn, so to speak. 00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:26.160 He needs to be made to feel like he's wanted and loved. 00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:32.319 He's already feeling like he's not wanted and loved by his father, and I can't also reflect that on him. 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:34.720 That's just awful, and that's not what I'm about at all. 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:41.440 And that's that was never my intention, but somehow it was showing and I wasn't aware. 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.960 So was that then the catalyst for you to go right? 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.759 What is it that I want to be doing? 00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:50.480 That must have had a massive impact on you. 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:51.119 Yeah. 00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:58.400 So from that moment on, did you want to sort of change that to set an example to him almost as well? 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:10.160 Yeah, I wanted to show him that as a parent, you do whatever you need to do to protect your child and set them up for a good future, or the best of what you can do, because that's all we can do. 00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:14.000 So I had to rethink what I was going to do with work and stuff like that again. 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:20.160 And at this point, are you still just dipping into freelance things to sort of get money essentially? 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:21.680 Yeah, essentially pay the way. 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:23.119 Essentially, yeah. 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:24.720 And then I looked at another option. 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:28.720 I was at a friend's dinner party and I was just talking about what I was doing and stuff. 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:34.400 She's like, sounds really demanding, but what have you as soon as you're multilingual, have you thought about doing a bit of translation work? 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:36.319 Because it's literally on your doorstep. 00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.640 And I was sort of like, What do you mean? 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:46.079 It's like something I can do as another extra activity, which meant I didn't have to take any homework home or finish things at home.

00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:47.519 This was quite important, right? 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:53.680 So you used your multilingualists, um were a Bengali translator and interpreter, right? 00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:54.240 Exactly. 00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:58.160 And that's something like you say, it's not defined by anything, it's a skill. 00:33:58.400 --> 00:33:59.440 Leave it at work, yeah. 00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:02.000 It's a skill, you leave it at work at the end of the day. 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:02.480 Yeah. 00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:05.519 And then the focus can be on the child. 00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:06.240 On your child. 00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:07.680 And my home life, yeah. 00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:10.239 So that was a gate absolute game changer. 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:20.719 Because with the photography work, I was going out to do a wedding or a shoot, and then I was editing all night, and then I was tired for the next day, and it was just like that constant vicious cycle. 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:26.159 Again, in hindsight, though, looking backwards, did Noah see you doing that translation job? 00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:33.039 Did he consider that creative as what you wanted to do, or was that again just he sees it now as it was a means to an end? 00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:44.079 I thoroughly enjoy doing translation work and interpreting work, and I was always really excited about it, meeting different people every day and helping them sort of understand medical language. 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:45.679 Was that the environment you were working in? 00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.159 Yeah, I worked in the medical environment. 00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.280 So again, it was an environment I was not used to, no idea. 00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:56.719 And it taught me a lot about the other kind of side of life. 00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:14.559 Like I worked in luxury interiors, luxury lifestyles, people, private medical care without any thought, and then working with patients are relying on the NHS and relying on someone to explain that they're dying or whatever it is. 00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:16.320 Um Did you have to do stuff like that? 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:17.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:26.000 One of my first jobs, the very first one I took, literally had to explain to the guy that he'd been in a car crash and he didn't have long to live. 00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:27.280 Oh my god. 00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.119 That must leave its mark emotionally on you as well. 00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:31.840 100%. 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:33.360 I don't think I'd ever forget that day. 00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:37.360 I thought, oh, this is gonna be really I mean, I didn't know what I was going into. 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:44.000 But I thought, you know, it's an hour booking and I'm gonna go in, interpret some language, and leave. 00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:49.760 Not thinking actually the depths of emotions that are involved in the situation like that. 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:59.760 There's a reason why you need a legal interpreter because they don't leave it up to the family because the family don't always want to tell the relative uncomfortable kind of news. 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:03.840 But I remember leaving the hospital and phoning my sister going, I don't think I can do this. 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:05.679 They're just like just the first one. 00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:12.960 Maybe you need to like offload and speak to the company you're working for, but they'll I'm sure they'll have someone that you can speak to, because this must happen every day. 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.760 And then I thought, no, you know what, I'm not gonna be defeated by this. 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:18.559 This is so weak of me to just throw the towel in after the first job. 00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:19.920 Did you feel that you're weak? 00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:21.760 Yeah, I felt like I couldn't do it. 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:28.400 But then I also felt, hold on, I've got this unique skill, and this vulnerable person is lying there. 00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.400 And if I hadn't been there, he wouldn't have known what was happening. 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:35.599 And he has a hundred percent right to know what's happening to him. 00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.599 It took a couple of weeks, and I then started to feel really passionate about it. 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:47.039 And like filling that gap where I've been in a foreign country when I don't understand what somebody's saying, and I just need to get to a destination. 00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:55.599 And I I know how vulnerable that makes you feel when you're in a space or environment and you don't know how things work and you don't understand what's going on. 00:36:55.840 --> 00:37:02.400 And that sort of reflecting back on myself and reflecting on the work I used to do before, I was like, oh my god, I this is my calling. 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.519 This is a hundred percent what I need to be doing right now, and I just threw myself into it. 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:15.280 It was that rewarding that you Yeah, I still do it in little bits and pieces up to now because it just always feels like I'm giving something back. 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:23.840 It keeps you kind of like regulated with the real world, with like real things that are happening, and it's not all, like I say, fancy mountains. 00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.440 That's what you say, as I say, fancy houses, luxury living, yeah. 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:31.039 To come back to tell some poor guy that they're about to pass away. 00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:31.840 Yeah. 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:36.000 Is quite the balance, quite the leveling experience, right? 00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:36.480 Yeah. 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:38.079 And I think I needed it. 00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:39.039 Why? 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:43.840 Because that there was that part of me who just wanted to get back into my industry because I knew how it worked. 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:49.199 I was

comfortable, I knew what I was doing, I knew it was easy, I could earn money and I could be really comfortable. 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:55.920 But then with all these things that were happening in my home life, and then that just wasn't realistic though, was it? 00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:58.960 You can't get back into initial 80 nowadays and all those sorts of places. 00:37:59.519 --> 00:37:59.840 Not at all. 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.159 And this job was like really super flexible. 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:08.559 Work around my child, around other creative work I was doing, and just the kind of emotional grounding it gave me. 00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:14.960 It was just like this is perfect, this is the right time for this because it's actually going to teach me a lot about me being a parent as well. 00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:22.079 Was there something about your lifestyle previously that how do I word this correctly? 00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:29.440 That perhaps felt a bit selfish, and now this idea of giving back, it sort of feels a bit more balanced. 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:30.639 Totally. 00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:32.559 The timing was impeccable. 00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:39.760 Like it just psychologically as well, f did it feel like something you needed to give you that some balance time. 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:40.719 That quiet time. 00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:41.280 Yeah. 00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:44.719 Some I've got some purpose, I'm doing Yeah, yeah. 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:46.800 Does Noah speak Bengal? 00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:50.079 He understands uh maybe five words. 00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:50.719 Really? 00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:58.559 But then I guess I mean, if you're not growing up surrounded by it the whole time, I guess in your household everyone was speaking. 00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:00.400 Or parents, grandparents. 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:06.159 Yeah, so for me, we went on a trip and stayed in Bangladesh for 18 months, and that's when I learned. 00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:08.800 So before I went there, I didn't speak a word of Bangalore. 00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:16.239 My siblings who are older than me don't speak it as well as I do because they hadn't got that kind of lived-in experience of the language. 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:17.280 So yeah, it's funny. 00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:19.679 And I as a creative, I love anything creative, so language. 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:21.360 I'm just like, you know, give me a lot of things. 00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:24.639 Do you think you found that easier as a creative to pick up the language? 00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:29.280 Because there I can only anecdotally speak, I speak a little bit of Spanish. 00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:29.599 Yeah, yeah. 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:39.519 But my stepfather, who is an academic, has tried to learn Spanish, and it and he it's very difficult for him because he wants to learn every single verb ending, wants to learn every single structure. 00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:40.079 Yeah. 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:48.800 And

there's something about an academic that's like you can learn all that, but it doesn't be making mistakes, having conversations, throwing yourself into them without a bit of fear. 00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:49.599 Yeah. 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:50.000 Yeah. 00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:51.280 That's interesting. 00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:54.639 Yeah, no, I love language, and I'll try and pick up bits and pieces. 00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:59.199 I know bits of Spanish and French and lots of other countries where I've been to, I'll try and pick up something. 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:04.000 And I think having the kind of baseline of knowing Bangla, it's so similar to so many other languages. 00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:12.159 And when you go to the countries that are surrounding that country, you always recognize words and phrases and even like mannerisms and whatever. 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:13.199 Is that how it works? 00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:15.760 The structure of those languages in that region. 00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:21.119 I mean, on I know French, Italian, Spanish, it's all romantic, there's based in Latin and all those things. 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:22.960 And that's similar in that region. 00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:34.480 Yeah, so Bang was based on Sanskrit, so it's like very close to like Hindi, but also relates to like some Thai and Burmese, and it's all kind of a blur. 00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:40.719 And I think if you know baseline or for language really well, then you can grapple the surrounding languages. 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:42.639 Yeah, no, it is cool. 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:45.519 And like you say, rewarding for you to find. 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:56.960 I don't want to say your purpose because I feel like you've found that later with creativity, but if you were feeling a bit lost in the world, I think, like you say, that that grounding element to it is pretty cool. 00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:57.840 Yeah, it is. 00:40:57.920 --> 00:40:58.719 It's definitely cool. 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:04.239 I just felt every time I went to meet a patient, like they somehow became part of my family or something. 00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:09.519 Like I didn't have a chance to use my mother tongue anywhere else until I had this got this job. 00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:14.559 And it was like, hold on a second, because even to my brothers and sisters never speaking Bengali, they always speak in English. 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:16.000 Or we banglish. 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:17.440 It was like a bit of both. 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:19.519 Banglish and banglish, yeah, I like that. 00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:27.199 So yeah, but I never really had the chance to like exercise it properly, and that gave me that opportunity, and I used to absolutely love it. 00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:31.840 Like, I'd go to my parents and saying all these words, I'm like, You're actually talking to him. 00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:35.840 But really, yeah, I know it is cool. 00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:39.440 What's your creative practice looking like at this point then? 00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:43.840 Because you said that creativity almost took a it did take a back seat. 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:44.320 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.920 Noah surviving, putting food on the table, roof over the head, clothes on your back. 00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:49.199 That was the priority. 00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:50.960 What are you feeling at this? 00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:52.960 Because you are inherently a creative person. 00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:53.440 Yeah. 00:41:54.639 --> 00:42:02.320 Going back to that conversation that Noah had, because I'm trying to get to the grips of what your creative practice around that time looked like. 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:11.039 I mean, you said you found a grounding, you found a purpose, but after that conversation you had with Noah about mummy's not doing what she wants to do. 00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:14.079 Do you think he maybe saw a shift in that? 00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:16.239 Or did you start creating a little bit more? 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:17.760 Yeah, I think definitely. 00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:27.599 I think I started to take on more local residential projects with doing so back using the design skills that you design you using the design skills, but having the balance of having the interpreting work. 00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:34.480 And I felt like that was probably in more of my recent years, the more kind of like balanced life. 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:47.280 So I was still working on really high-end residential properties, but I had this interpreting work to balance it out, and the connections that I was making with having that kind of in my soul were different to how it was 10 years before that. 00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:52.320 Where it is very fast-paced and very like, you know, um I don't know. 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.519 What do you mean by that? 00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:59.360 The the translation interpreter job almost slowed you down a bit in terms of your design work as well? 00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:11.280 Yeah, it slowed me down and actually made me appreciate the skills and the connections that I'd made from being in interiors previously. 00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:21.440 And it made me realise that I didn't work want to work for a certain type of client, that I actually wanted to work for people that were nice and grounded in themselves. 00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:22.239 I see. 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:28.719 So it wasn't just about oh, this Russian billionaire's come to me with their money, but he's actually a war criminal, so I don't want to work for a lot of people. 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.840 Well, yeah, yeah, there was there there was some of that. 00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:32.639 Oh, yeah. 00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:33.679 There was some of that. 00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:36.880 We won't go too far into that in case we end up on a list of some sort. 00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:38.000 Exactly. 00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:41.199 It taught me to be more selective

about the people that I work with. 00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:43.199 It was almost like less is more. 00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:53.280 And I got And balancing that with a little bit of financial security from the interpreting and all those sorts of things means it gives you that little bit of more freedom. 00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:54.000 Exactly. 00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:59.599 And being able to work with a with the right type of client, you can work at a different pace in a different style. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.519 And it can be more almost a bit more family-like. 00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:08.960 So yeah, that was like COVID when I worked on a couple of bigger projects. 00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:10.719 Before we get to COVID. 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:11.280 Yeah. 00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:16.079 Before COVID, you went through again elevating in a challenge. 00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:21.360 You had some sort of battle about wanting to homeschool Noah that you had to go through. 00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:25.280 Yeah, I realised the school that Noah was in wasn't serving him very well. 00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:26.800 Due to his neurodivergence. 00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:39.280 Due to his neurodiversity, and you know, completely appreciate funding at schools and what resources I have in the mainstream schools is really challenging for the teachers and sort of how everyone's managed. 00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:45.440 It wasn't until we had lockdown that I realised that I was doing something massively wrong for Noah in terms of education. 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:49.599 Say more, what do you mean what made you feel like it was wrong? 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:55.360 So we had our challenges and it was going back and forth from school, but nothing was actually being resolved. 00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:57.440 And I was turning a blind eye to it a little bit. 00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:03.199 And I was kind of putting my trust into the system, thinking it's a school, and they're gonna want the best for my child. 00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:15.920 But it turned out that wasn't the case, and they may not have had all the resources that they needed, but they were actually just dimming this little boy and leaving him outside the classroom and saying that he wasn't able to learn. 00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:21.599 Where I did know different because I brought him up, but I know what he's able to do and what he's not able to do. 00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:30.719 And it's when I started, when we started the sort of the first period of COVID where it was locked down and the kids were being sent work from school to do at home. 00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:33.760 They'd have like bronze, silver, and gold to do. 00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:36.320 And I just thought it meant you do bronze, silver, and gold. 00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:38.480 You start with the bronze to do the stuff and then you do the gold. 00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:42.000 So I just handed it to him and said, Oh, here you go, this is your work for the day. 00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:46.239 And we'd both start like nine o'clock and by a quarter past ten and be like, I've finished everything. 00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:48.000 And I was like, What do you mean you've finished everything? 00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:48.639 There's loads of work. 00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:50.880 And he's like, I've done the bronze and the gold and the silver. 00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:52.079 And I was like, Oh. 00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:54.639 And I check it through and I was like, There's nothing wrong with it. 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:56.639 Why are they saying that he can't learn? 00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:58.559 Why he's not grappling any of it? 00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:00.239 Well, what's actually going on here? 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.199 So I spoke to a few people at school, Zenko, etc. 00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:06.960 And I was like, This is his work, this is what he's done. 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:08.880 And she sort of said, Well, are you helping him? 00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:11.199 I was like, I haven't got a clue what this is. 00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:13.360 You know, like it's taught so differently. 00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:15.519 I don't I don't know what half of this stuff is. 00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:19.039 And they were like, Well, he's not able to do it at school, blah blah blah, whatever. 00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:25.360 And I was like, Well, he seems to be perfectly capable of doing it at home, so there is something missing in this equation. 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.760 And I was like, right, I want to have him assessed for his autism. 00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:33.280 And she just point blank went, No, he doesn't need an assessment. 00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:37.679 No, but you're also telling me that you're leaving him outside the classroom so he's not able to learn. 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:41.199 So there's something here that's not been dealt with. 00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:44.960 Cut long story short, I had to go through all the assessment process myself. 00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:47.920 It kept getting rejected, had to keep appealing. 00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.079 It went to court, it went to tribunal. 00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:56.400 We had to represent ourselves through this to get him removed from that school to then put him into another school. 00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:59.920 But in that interim period, he had to be homeschooled because he had no school to go to. 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:00.320 Right. 00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:03.440 So yeah, that COVID was another challenge then. 00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:07.599 COVID was intense, like not a seven-day week work. 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:08.320 Wow. 00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:17.840 There was no sort of furlough, there was no anything, and I'd got this huge project I was working on at the same time, and this legal battle to fight online because nobody was face to face with anything. 00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:19.519 Did you feel overwhelmed? 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:20.639 Incredibly. 00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:22.639 I think that's the most

overwhelmed I've been in my life. 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:23.199 Really? 00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:24.320 Yeah, yeah. 00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:28.239 Even past having the new baby and being on your own. 00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:29.679 That was something else. 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:31.599 That was literally something else. 00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:32.320 Wow. 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:32.800 Yeah. 00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:35.199 That sounds pretty, pretty intense. 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:37.840 But COVID's also an interesting time, isn't it? 00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:42.079 Because among the other challenges, didn't you get quite ill? 00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:42.639 I did. 00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:44.400 I got COVID and I didn't recover. 00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:51.360 I had long COVID for a long time and then developed an autoimmune disease and a a little problem with my heart and stuff. 00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:53.599 But I survived COVID, is the way I look at it now. 00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:54.400 I was like, you know what? 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:55.840 It could have taken me and it didn't. 00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:59.760 I fought through it and I'm working on still getting better and improving. 00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:02.239 But it meant I had to change what I was doing in terms of career. 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:02.960 I wasn't going to go back. 00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:05.280 You were bedbound and everything, weren't you? 00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:05.840 I was. 00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:11.280 Yeah, I couldn't get out of bed, couldn't feel my legs, couldn't function, couldn't do things with my hands. 00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:22.480 It was just my whole body was And as a mum trying to raise a young man in the world, trying to go through all this stuff in courts and tribunals to get him homeschooled or put into a different school that suits his needs more. 00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:23.119 Yeah. 00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:24.400 Yeah, intense. 00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:27.360 I mean, you are swimming through the shit. 00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:32.960 Yeah, but again, shows once again to our listeners the elevation during these challenges. 00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:35.679 None of these challenges have ever beaten you. 00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:36.159 No. 00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:37.199 They might feel obviously. 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:38.079 They've come close. 00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:41.360 Yeah, but hindsight again, you can look back and go, shit, I did that. 00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:41.519 Yeah. 00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:42.559 I did that, and I got to do that. 00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:43.199 We do though. 00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:44.159 I think we do that. 00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:50.639 I think when we're faced with a challenge and there's no there's no other way to get through, you you get through, you find the strength and the attitude. 00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:52.079 Yeah, exactly. 00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:52.639 Exactly. 00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:54.960 It's fight or flight, and you've just got to do it. 00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:57.519 You never dream of being in these any of these situations. 00:48:57.599 --> 00:48:58.639 You never think it's gonna happen to you. 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:01.039 Things that happen in domestic violence, it happens to somebody else. 00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:02.880 You read it in the papers, never happens to you. 00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:07.199 Yeah, you know, it's somebody else's kid that's struggling with a school link, not yours. 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:08.159 It's never you, is it? 00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:11.440 Yeah, it's always somebody else until it's you, it's on your doorstep. 00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.679 So bedbound, an autoimmune disease, you can't move your legs. 00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:17.440 I mean pretty buggered. 00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:23.599 I didn't want to say, but that sounds like, oh my god, that's so intense. 00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:24.320 Yeah. 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:33.840 But yet, through all of this, through the challenge, there's something inside you that's saying, God, I'm not being as creative as I want to be here. 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:34.639 Yeah. 00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:37.679 So with a bit of recovery and a bit of time, yeah. 00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:40.639 Am I right in thinking this is where this is where ceramics. 00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:42.400 This is where we found ceramics. 00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:43.039 It is. 00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:50.000 I was sat in my living room with two of my friends, and they said, like, you can't sit at home doing nothing because it's not who you are. 00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:55.119 It's not good for Noah to see you like this and feeling sorry for yourself and not being able to function. 00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:57.039 We've booked a ceramic course. 00:49:57.199 --> 00:49:58.159 We just start next. 00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:01.119 So it was actually a friend that booked it for you. 00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:01.519 Yeah. 00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:02.559 That's very cool. 00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:03.679 Yeah, it is very cool. 00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:09.280 Because that means you've got wonderful people in your life that are looking out for you and going, no, Aisha's not happy. 00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:09.519 Yeah. 00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:10.480 Let's do something. 00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:12.480 Rather than just going, meh. 00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:13.039 Yeah. 00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.320 And it was that whole thing of like, I can't do that for myself. 00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:17.280 I felt guilty. 00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:19.840 It's like ceramic courses are quite expensive. 00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:21.760 I can't spend that on me. 00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:22.960 I need to spend it on my child. 00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:25.039 And it, I'm not even earning that much at the moment. 00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:28.559 So I need to, I can't, I can't possibly do that for me. 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:32.159 It's that whole like parental guilt, which I'm sure lots of parents feel. 00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:36.159

It's a luxury to go and do something for yourself as a parent. 00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:38.239 But it sounds like it was very needed. 00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:39.119 It was needed. 00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:40.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:43.119 And I'm very grateful for having amazing friends. 00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:46.159 And yeah, they're literally like, no, it's done. 00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:48.159 You know, no one's gonna be out of school. 00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:52.000 So you've got zero excuse not to turn up and just get on with it. 00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:54.639 I think for the first session, I was like, this is awful. 00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:55.280 Oh, really? 00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:56.719 It's so hard. 00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:02.800 I can't, you know, I can't wedge the clay because of the rheumatoid in my hands, let alone throw a pot. 00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:05.920 And then everything was just flying off everywhere, and I was like, this is horrific. 00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:08.719 Second session, I was sort of like, I'm not even gonna go. 00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:11.599 And then I was like, no, come on, pull yourself together. 00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:13.119 Just take the pressure off. 00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:15.519 It's not, you're not looking for an end product here. 00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:16.719 Just go and have a play. 00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:18.320 And I think it was like six weeks. 00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:21.199 I kept going and I was just absolutely horrendous. 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:25.679 I thought I was creative and it was beating up my sort of sculptural background. 00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:27.519 I was like, I can't, I just can't do it. 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:28.639 What is wrong? 00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:35.920 So I said to my my tutor, I was like, look, this isn't gonna work for me, but I I don't want to leave the course without anything, so I'm just gonna hand build something. 00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:37.440 She was like, Oh, yeah, sure. 00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:38.320 All right, why not? 00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:43.119 So I hand built this like monster cookie jar, which didn't fit together very well. 00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:46.639 But I was like, I've got something, I've got I've achieved something from this six weeks. 00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:49.119 Nothing else comes to this and I've got a cookie jar. 00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:50.559 I've got it, yeah, exactly. 00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:57.920 And then I was like, no, either I wasn't listening to her, or I'm just like so set in my ways and determined to learn everything by myself. 00:51:58.079 --> 00:51:59.280 Um did you feel that? 00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:03.360 Did you think that you'd almost put some barriers up for yourself? 00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:07.840 I think I got to like week four, and I was like, I don't think I'm even listening to her. 00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:13.119 I think I'm just so cross with myself that I can't do it, that I'm just just trying to figure it out for myself. 00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:15.280 And I was like, that's so silly. 00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:17.840 You know, she's you're sort of spoiling it for yourself. 00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:18.559 Exactly. 00:52:18.719 --> 00:52:21.199 Giving you like IKEA instructions on how to do it. 00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:24.559 And I'm just going, no, because I've never used a packet of Ikea instructions. 00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:26.719 I build where it is without looking at anything. 00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:31.360 So yeah, I was really frustrated and I was sitting online and I was like, I'm just gonna have a look at how much they are. 00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:33.199 I was like, wow, they're like£5,000. 00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:34.400 I can't afford that. 00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:35.840 Sorry, what is five pounds? 00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:36.159 The wheels. 00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:37.840 Oh, sorry, the Potter's wheel is five. 00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:41.360 And I was like, Oh, I can't afford one, I've got nowhere to put it either in my tiny little house. 00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:52.400 And I went on the interesting, even after that sort of militantness of like, oh, I can't do this, but I'm gonna look for a potter's wheel until I can do this. 00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:54.719 Yeah, but I hadn't even thought about doing it. 00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:57.920 I was just like, oh, just gonna have a look to see how much they are kind of thing. 00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:05.760 And then I found one on eBay for like chips, basically, and it wasn't like a professional one, it was like a Chinese bootleg version. 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:06.320 Okay. 00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:10.880 Like what we would call like a Timu Potter's wheel or something like that back in the day. 00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:12.559 Yeah, and second hand on top of that. 00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:14.079 So I was like, it might not even work. 00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:14.639 Right. 00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:20.480 But the impulse was still there to Yeah, I think it's that whole if I can't do it, why can't I do it? 00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:23.039 And I need to be able to do it, I need to figure out how to do it. 00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:24.880 Somewhere in the background. 00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:30.239 So anyway, this wheel turned up, I bought some clay and I just started playing with clay in my living room. 00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:35.519 And Noah being the way he is, absolutely detested me being in even in my in our own houses. 00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:36.239 It was like this is disgusting. 00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:38.480 The change of space, the dirtiness, all those things. 00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:39.360 This is disgusting. 00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:40.639 He stayed upstairs for two days. 00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:41.440 Oh blessing. 00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:45.920 Despite me saying I've cleaned everything, it's no, I'm not coming downstairs because it's disgusting. 00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:47.119 So yeah. 00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:50.880 And I was like, okay, I need to figure out

how I'm gonna do this. 00:54:27.550 --> 00:54:34.349 Again, it's so interesting to me because you're sort of I see elements for myself, the creative in me. 00:54:34.429 --> 00:54:36.349 It's like the stubbornness. 00:54:36.909 --> 00:54:37.949 You don't want to be beaten. 00:54:38.110 --> 00:54:41.949 No, I can't do something, but I'll bloody learn how to do that. 00:54:42.429 --> 00:54:46.429 So you don't know that's the creative, the problem solver in you, I think. 00:54:46.590 --> 00:54:48.429 The only way out is through all of these things. 00:54:48.670 --> 00:54:49.070 Yeah. 00:54:49.389 --> 00:54:52.349 So you're making stuff at home, it's causing chaos. 00:54:52.510 --> 00:54:53.550 Noah's not very happy. 00:54:53.789 --> 00:54:54.510 Not at all. 00:54:54.750 --> 00:54:56.829 So is this where you find Sun Dragon? 00:54:56.909 --> 00:54:57.150 Yes. 00:54:57.389 --> 00:55:02.110 The membership and they've got kilns, they've got wheels, they've got all the stuff that you can use. 00:55:02.190 --> 00:55:03.150 It's away from Noah. 00:55:03.230 --> 00:55:10.110 So yeah, yeah, it's away from our home, away where I can just go off and have my few hours a week or day, whatever. 00:55:10.349 --> 00:55:13.550 And yeah, I just begged and pleaded until they let me become a member. 00:55:13.630 --> 00:55:24.990 Because I think you're supposed to have X amount of courses behind you before they let you loose in their member studio where everything, all the chemicals are out, and it's you need to have a bit of knowledge that I begged and pleaded. 00:55:25.150 --> 00:55:27.710 And I was like, I just need to just need let me in. 00:55:29.470 --> 00:55:31.070 I need to be creative, and that was it. 00:55:31.230 --> 00:55:31.630 That was it. 00:55:31.710 --> 00:55:33.789 I created some stuff, started posting on Instagram. 00:55:34.030 --> 00:55:47.869 But is this where you feel like your ceramic work took a bit of a leap forward because you're getting that hands-on experience, you're saying beating out those frustrations of oh, I couldn't do this before, but now I can do this. 00:55:47.949 --> 00:55:49.710 Yeah, and now you're practicing it. 00:55:49.789 --> 00:55:52.510 Yeah, the skill sets coming in much further. 00:55:52.750 --> 00:55:56.030 And and we're quite late on, we're so it's what's that, 2020. 00:55:56.269 --> 00:55:56.909 23? 00:55:57.150 --> 00:55:57.630 After COVID. 00:55:58.750 --> 00:56:00.349 Yeah, so 2023 after COVID. 00:56:00.510 --> 00:56:00.990 Yeah, yeah. 00:56:01.150 --> 00:56:02.030 So not long ago. 00:56:02.269 --> 00:56:02.829 Not at all. 00:56:03.070 --> 00:56:05.710 And like you say, you start making some stuff, right? 00:56:05.949 --> 00:56:10.110 Start making some stuff, and doing what people do, putting a bit on social media here and there. 00:56:10.590 --> 00:56:11.710 Look at my little cup. 00:56:11.949 --> 00:56:18.670 Did you feel a bit like that at the moment, putting it out there going still feel like a bit of an imposter, but look at my ceramics that I'm working on. 00:56:19.070 --> 00:56:22.829 I think joining the community studio gave me some confidence. 00:56:22.990 --> 00:56:26.750 There's a shared amount of skills there, and like you could you could ask anybody, like, how do I do this? 00:56:26.829 --> 00:56:27.389 How do I do that? 00:56:27.550 --> 00:56:34.670 And somebody always wants to help you or wants to give you some information, even if you haven't asked for it because they know that you know that it's gonna help you. 00:56:34.829 --> 00:56:35.070 Yeah. 00:56:35.309 --> 00:56:42.269 And I started talking to more and more creative people, and it was the first time since being in Birmingham that actually come in contact with creatives. 00:56:42.590 --> 00:56:52.590 I guess because your focus had been you, Noah, family, roof overhead, all those things until you open yourself up to that creativity within a region. 00:56:52.829 --> 00:56:53.309 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:56:53.550 --> 00:56:54.349 You don't find it. 00:56:54.429 --> 00:57:04.510 Yeah, and spin, like I say, being surrounded by people in the in the uh community space, you pick you're picking up all those little bits which will the the doing. 00:57:04.670 --> 00:57:14.670 You are the classic example of what's that famous thing where the one class is asked to make one pot at the end of the semester, but then another class is asked to make as many different pots as they possibly can. 00:57:14.750 --> 00:57:15.389 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:57:15.550 --> 00:57:16.750 And they'll be graded at the end of it. 00:57:16.909 --> 00:57:22.190 And it's always the people that have made a hundred pots because they've ironed out mistakes, they've learned the technique. 00:57:22.269 --> 00:57:29.070 They're going, oh, yeah, the clay went flying off the potter's wheel at that point, or I didn't use the right wire to pull it off. 00:57:29.389 --> 00:57:31.150 All of those things because they're learning. 00:57:31.309 --> 00:57:31.789 Yeah. 00:57:32.030 --> 00:57:39.630 Yeah, that just opened me up to the creatives locally and just friendship groups that I couldn't have dreamt of. 00:57:39.789 --> 00:57:43.389 And that community, did that give you encouragement to start sharing the work you're doing? 00:57:43.710 --> 00:57:44.269 Yeah, absolutely. 00:57:44.429 --> 00:57:47.389 Because there is some trepidation behind that, especially for something that's new. 00:57:47.550 --> 00:57:48.110 Yeah, yeah, totally. 00:57:48.429 --> 00:57:54.750 Did you feel that trepidation about oh god, I'm putting my first like you said, my first little pot, even a bit patronizing around it with yourself. 00:57:54.909 --> 00:57:58.030 You don't mean that, but no, but it's quite daunting, I think. 00:57:58.190 --> 00:58:01.230 I think lots of artists feel like this, like sharing their work is really personal. 00:58:01.470 --> 00:58:02.429 Well, we've spoken about that. 00:58:02.670 --> 00:58:07.949 Making making and creating

is an act of bravery in itself, especially if you you're going to share it. 00:58:08.269 --> 00:58:08.750 Exactly. 00:58:08.829 --> 00:58:17.389 And I think there was a huge element of that, like showing something, but not feeling sure about it and not really not even knowing that much about the medium or what you were actually doing. 00:58:17.550 --> 00:58:26.750 So there was little bits sort of coming through, and then uh someone I didn't actually know very well at the time sort of reached out and said, Oh, we do like a community market at Christmas. 00:58:26.829 --> 00:58:29.230 Um, you should bring your stuff along and sell it. 00:58:29.309 --> 00:58:30.190 And I was like, Sell it? 00:58:30.269 --> 00:58:30.990 You must be joking. 00:58:31.070 --> 00:58:31.710 I don't know what I'm doing. 00:58:31.789 --> 00:58:32.510 She's like, Oh, I love it. 00:58:32.670 --> 00:58:33.630 I want to buy some pieces. 00:58:34.110 --> 00:58:36.190 Did you feel like a hobby to you at that point? 00:58:36.349 --> 00:58:37.630 Well, I didn't know what it was, to be honest. 00:58:37.869 --> 00:58:40.990 It felt like mental healing and therapy. 00:58:41.150 --> 00:58:41.789 Yeah. 00:58:42.269 --> 00:58:48.110 I think that's why I got so into it because it was giving me quiet time and time to process my thoughts and just relax. 00:58:48.429 --> 00:58:54.030 Had you got past the fact of you worried earlier about it being this selfish act, doing something for yourself? 00:58:54.349 --> 00:58:54.429 Yeah. 00:58:54.670 --> 00:58:55.389 Are you sort of I mean? 00:58:55.789 --> 00:58:58.030 I realised how important it was for us as a family. 00:58:58.190 --> 00:58:58.429 Yeah. 00:58:58.590 --> 00:58:59.630 I realised how important it was. 00:59:00.030 --> 00:59:02.269 Well, if mum's not happy, Noah's never going to be happy. 00:59:02.510 --> 00:59:08.990 And what it was reflecting back to him, I was so happy and so engrossed in this new thing that I'd found, and there was no pressure. 00:59:09.070 --> 00:59:11.630 And did that feel like a great example to set him? 00:59:11.949 --> 00:59:16.750 Look, after the conversation we had about not doing the thing that I'm passionate about, look how passionate I am about this. 00:59:16.990 --> 00:59:17.789 Exactly, exactly. 00:59:17.869 --> 00:59:18.829 And he saw that straight away. 00:59:18.909 --> 00:59:19.150 Yeah. 00:59:19.309 --> 00:59:20.269 He saw that straight away. 00:59:20.429 --> 00:59:22.990 So much so that didn't he get involved with you with the markets? 00:59:23.150 --> 00:59:23.710 Yes, he did. 00:59:24.110 --> 00:59:25.070 It's quite big, right? 00:59:25.230 --> 00:59:25.550 It is. 00:59:25.630 --> 00:59:31.470 So I did my first market and I think I sold out 90% of the stuff, but the stuff we forgot to take out the suitcase. 00:59:31.710 --> 00:59:36.429 And going back to that imposterism that we speak about, did that just go, oh my god. 00:59:36.670 --> 00:59:37.389 I was stunned. 00:59:37.470 --> 00:59:39.070 I

was like, these people must be crazy. 00:59:39.150 --> 00:59:39.710 What are they doing? 00:59:39.949 --> 00:59:41.550 It must have elevated your confidence, right? 00:59:41.710 --> 00:59:42.429 Yeah, no, totally. 00:59:42.510 --> 00:59:46.590 And I had Noah by my side doing kind of all the payments and things like that, because he likes all the techie bits. 00:59:46.670 --> 00:59:49.309 So he was like setting up the card machine, doing all the payments, you know. 00:59:49.630 --> 00:59:58.670 So great for both of you in a way, really feel confidence in creating, but also Noah in social skills, his confidence being in spaces that he probably doesn't know or would never been before. 00:59:58.909 --> 00:59:59.869 Exactly, exactly. 01:00:00.030 --> 01:00:12.429 But he could almost hide in the behind the table where he's doing these calculating bits, but he's also out and he's also now learning to speak to somebody who doesn't know and to even if to say, Oh, you know, it's£20 or whatever it is. 01:00:12.750 --> 01:00:13.949 Was that nice to watch for you? 01:00:14.030 --> 01:00:14.590 Yeah as a mum. 01:00:14.909 --> 01:00:15.630 It was really nice. 01:00:15.710 --> 01:00:22.590 And it was that this stage it became less about me wanting to make and sell stuff that actually, if I do this, then he's gonna do this. 01:00:22.829 --> 01:00:23.869 Because he actually said, didn't he? 01:00:23.949 --> 01:00:24.909 He said, Can we do that again? 01:00:25.070 --> 01:00:25.150 Yeah. 01:00:25.389 --> 01:00:27.710 And you're like, better make some more stuff then, right? 01:00:28.269 --> 01:00:29.949 It was it was him that said, Oh, let's do it again. 01:00:30.030 --> 01:00:30.429 That was really fun. 01:00:30.670 --> 01:00:35.470 That's so cool after those early conversations that he's seeing you, inspired, creative. 01:00:35.710 --> 01:00:38.670 He was part of it, and you're both part of it doing it together. 01:00:38.829 --> 01:00:40.429 Yeah, and he has been since. 01:00:40.590 --> 01:00:41.550 That's very cool. 01:00:41.710 --> 01:00:43.550 Yeah, yeah, it's really nice. 01:00:43.630 --> 01:00:45.470 It's really um warming. 01:00:45.869 --> 01:00:47.869 You didn't overthink it then at that point. 01:00:48.110 --> 01:00:51.470 It's just feeling, well, this is good for me, this is good for Noah. 01:00:51.630 --> 01:00:52.030 Yeah. 01:00:52.349 --> 01:00:56.110 Should we just apply for more stuff, do more markets, make more stuff? 01:00:56.349 --> 01:00:56.909 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:00:57.309 --> 01:00:59.869 I was just I wasn't making to any kind of like brief. 01:00:59.949 --> 01:01:04.429 I was just making whatever came out, whatever I felt like making, and just playing. 01:01:04.510 --> 01:01:12.909 And I hadn't played with material since like being at university in the first year, where you play and find out what materials you want to work with, what mediums you want to work with. 01:01:13.230 --> 01:01:19.150 So this first art market, was it the sort of stuff you're producing now, or was it a bit more basic? 01:01:19.550 --> 01:01:21.309 It's still quite similar. 01:01:21.470 --> 01:01:24.590 I mean, it was a lot smaller, and I was creating small pieces. 01:01:24.909 --> 01:01:28.909 And what I call them straight away was um objects of desire. 01:01:29.070 --> 01:01:34.190 So small, pocket-sized things, affordable, but desirable and usable. 01:01:34.349 --> 01:01:42.750 So I want them to be functional, look really cute on your table or your shelf or whatever, and be at a price point that anyone could accessible. 01:01:42.909 --> 01:01:44.510 Yeah, accessible, exactly. 01:01:44.829 --> 01:01:53.630 And that was always really important to me in art because as we know, art is often perceived for the elite, and it's like, no, I'm absolutely against that. 01:01:53.789 --> 01:01:55.550 That's not what it's for everybody. 01:01:55.710 --> 01:01:55.949 Yeah. 01:01:56.110 --> 01:02:03.389 And I suppose that was my first dabble after so many years of not producing any art, of going, this is art, and I want you to have that. 01:02:03.470 --> 01:02:07.949 I don't want that to be in a box somewhere, I want that to be in your home or want you to be using it. 01:02:08.590 --> 01:02:25.470 So even from the early stages, a lot of the work that I was making was architecturally inspired, very Bauhausy, very kind of modernist, with natural, the natural colour of the clay exposed, as well as all the kind of bright bold shapes and colours. 01:02:25.710 --> 01:02:27.710 And I think it's developed since then. 01:02:27.789 --> 01:02:31.230 Um I guess because you're still experimenting at that point as well. 01:02:31.550 --> 01:02:33.630 So essentially you might not know what's going to come out. 01:02:33.789 --> 01:02:34.190 Yeah, yeah. 01:02:34.269 --> 01:02:36.670 And I and I don't know what's going to come out in the next six months. 01:02:36.750 --> 01:02:37.550 I'm still playing. 01:02:37.789 --> 01:02:43.230 But within that, you've got that experience and you've developed a little bit of a style. 01:02:43.389 --> 01:02:43.630 Yes. 01:02:43.869 --> 01:02:48.190 I would I'd say you've developed a lot of a style in the work that you produce, which is very cool. 01:02:48.429 --> 01:02:48.590 Yeah. 01:02:48.829 --> 01:02:49.550 But let's go back. 01:02:49.710 --> 01:02:51.789 Your confidence must have grown during this time. 01:02:51.869 --> 01:02:59.070 You're doing more art markets, you're being surrounded by now a community of other creatives, must be helpful, lifting you up. 01:02:59.470 --> 01:02:59.949 Definitely. 01:03:00.110 --> 01:03:03.309 And you had this attitude of, I'm just gonna sort of apply to anything. 01:03:03.550 --> 01:03:04.190 Yeah. 01:03:04.590 --> 01:03:08.990 And I did, I just applied to anything that would come up just to see what happens. 01:03:09.230 --> 01:03:13.949 And more times than not, I'd get accepted, which then put the pressure on me. 01:03:14.030 --> 01:03:15.710 It's like, oh no,

I've got to produce more artwork. 01:03:15.869 --> 01:03:17.869 Like, I've got to produce more work to be able to sell. 01:03:18.030 --> 01:03:19.309 Can we talk a little bit about that? 01:03:19.470 --> 01:03:25.789 Was that open calls or was it more just craft markets and things where you could be in your space with all of your own product? 01:03:25.949 --> 01:03:31.070 Because how does that work with ceramics as such with an open call as a piece of art? 01:03:31.309 --> 01:03:34.110 There's a mixture of stuff that I did. 01:03:34.269 --> 01:03:40.670 So everything that's happened has happened in 12 months, so it's been really intense and there's been lots and lots of different things. 01:03:40.909 --> 01:03:46.909 I'd apply for residences, the one I applied for at Sturchley Printworks and received that was a print one. 01:03:47.070 --> 01:03:57.630 And I wanted to involve my print with my ceramics as imprint onto the clay, the kind of architectural shapes and drawings that I used to do, or still do, onto clay, and mix those two mediums together. 01:03:57.789 --> 01:04:04.030 Because often screen print is considered as a flat 2D medium, and yet you've got ceramics, and I wanted to marry them both together. 01:04:04.190 --> 01:04:20.349 And then all my degree work was around the grey area between painting and sculpture, and where it actually meets in the middle, and where it's still viable and still considered as fine art, because you probably know paintings are considered as fine art, but sculpture is somewhere down that hierarchy. 01:04:20.750 --> 01:04:22.110 Same with yeah, photographies. 01:04:22.429 --> 01:04:24.750 Yeah, yeah, it's like second rate almost, isn't it? 01:04:24.909 --> 01:04:26.429 And like I've always had that. 01:04:27.230 --> 01:04:30.429 And there's definitely a sculptural element to the pieces that you create as well. 01:04:30.670 --> 01:04:31.869 Yeah, absolutely. 01:04:33.150 --> 01:04:36.670 So you're applying to all these different things, your confidence has grown. 01:04:37.230 --> 01:04:42.030 And this is where you saw a call out for small businesses in the UK, right? 01:04:42.269 --> 01:04:44.269 Right and again, like, oh, I'll just apply for this. 01:04:44.429 --> 01:04:45.550 Yeah, no thought given. 01:04:46.190 --> 01:04:47.550 Yeah, no thought given. 01:04:48.110 --> 01:04:54.750 And the next thing, you're approached by ITV's production staff to be a part of the TV show, yeah. 01:04:54.990 --> 01:05:00.829 Be your own boss, yeah, which we spoke about earlier with Holly Tucker, who is the founder of Not on the High Street. 01:05:01.070 --> 01:05:01.309 Correct. 01:05:01.389 --> 01:05:02.670 Yeah, but what's that like? 01:05:03.230 --> 01:05:03.789 Intense. 01:05:03.869 --> 01:05:04.670 It was really intense. 01:05:04.909 --> 01:05:09.789 And I suppose we should say when you got accepted for that, the filming started. 01:05:10.269 --> 01:05:11.150 Imminently, yeah. 01:05:11.389 --> 01:05:15.309 But not long after, was it literally a couple of days after your father had passed away? 01:05:15.470 --> 01:05:16.990 Yeah, literally a couple of days after my father passed away. 01:05:17.230 --> 01:05:19.389 There was quite a big inspiration in your life. 01:05:19.789 --> 01:05:21.389 Huge inspiration in my life. 01:05:21.949 --> 01:05:29.070 What on earth are you feeling in those moments where you're going through grief but yet you're still like shit? 01:05:29.309 --> 01:05:35.150 I've got this opportunity to be on a I honestly couldn't put it into words what was going through my mind and my heart. 01:05:35.470 --> 01:05:43.470 It was just it was like making the choice of do I crumble or do I roll over and fall? 01:05:43.869 --> 01:05:46.510 Or do you elevate in a challenge? 01:05:46.750 --> 01:05:47.550 I elevating a challenge. 01:05:47.789 --> 01:05:53.869 People are gonna get bored of me saying that, but you said it to me, and I I think it's so poignant for your story. 01:05:54.429 --> 01:06:06.510 In this situation of grief, you're still setting this incredible example to Noah, you're elevating yourself within a challenge, you're not being beaten, you're using all that resilience of all this stuff that's been in the past. 01:06:06.990 --> 01:06:14.750 You see the opportunity that comes with this TV show, and you called it a high-intensity distraction from grief. 01:06:15.070 --> 01:06:16.510 Yeah, it really was. 01:06:16.829 --> 01:06:26.030 And I am uh so grateful for when that landed because it was the right level of distraction that I needed. 01:06:26.429 --> 01:06:35.470 My father passed away, uh, could have just uh finished me because I was so close to my dad, and my dad has always been a huge inspiration and a huge kind of chilly. 01:06:36.110 --> 01:06:42.429 For me, in that no matter how ridiculous an idea I came up with, he was like, You need to go for it, you need to just do it. 01:06:42.590 --> 01:06:45.070 If it all falls apart, I'm gonna be there to catch you, don't worry. 01:06:45.150 --> 01:06:46.110 Just throw yourself at it. 01:06:46.190 --> 01:06:50.429 And if you believe in it yourself, you're gonna be able to make everybody else believe it. 01:06:50.670 --> 01:06:52.750 That was the crux of what he always taught me. 01:06:52.909 --> 01:07:01.869 If you 100% hand on your heart believe in something, you're gonna be able to make other people buy into that or believe it, but always stay true to yourself. 01:07:02.269 --> 01:07:14.429 And this ITV production company and Holly Tucker clearly saw something in your work which let's remind everyone, it's a matter of year and a half, a couple of years old of you doing ceramics. 01:07:14.590 --> 01:07:14.909 Yeah. 01:07:15.150 --> 01:07:19.550 They must have seen something within your work that they were like, yes, we wanna. 01:07:19.869 --> 01:07:22.829 Yeah, which I'm again I'm really super grateful for. 01:07:23.070 --> 01:07:25.550 And I had no idea where it was going. 01:07:25.789 -->

01:07:29.470 I saw a call out and I was like, fine, I'll just I think my card broken down. 01:07:29.550 --> 01:07:30.190 I was on the bus. 01:07:30.349 --> 01:07:34.429 I had the time to apply from my phone while on this bus journey to it. 01:07:34.750 --> 01:07:36.750 The universe is a strange one, so yeah. 01:07:36.990 --> 01:07:38.829 I mean, ordinarily, I wouldn't have seen it probably. 01:07:38.909 --> 01:07:42.750 I don't when I'm driving, I'm not scrolling through my Instagram, kind of being like, Oh, wasn't that so? 01:07:42.990 --> 01:07:43.470 What's this? 01:07:43.630 --> 01:07:44.990 Let's just have a little whatever. 01:07:45.150 --> 01:07:50.349 And when I got the call back from them saying, I would really like you to be on the show, or like we'd like to just have a chat with you. 01:07:50.429 --> 01:07:51.789 And I was like, Oh, yeah, it's just a chat. 01:07:52.030 --> 01:07:53.470 Next day they had a chat with me. 01:07:53.550 --> 01:07:56.510 And then two days later, it's like, oh, you did great on the screen test. 01:07:56.590 --> 01:07:57.550 And I was like, What screen test? 01:07:57.710 --> 01:07:59.710 They were like, Oh, that that chat we had, that was a screen test. 01:07:59.789 --> 01:08:01.869 And I was like, Oh, I thought that was just a chat. 01:08:02.269 --> 01:08:04.030 Like, you know, for the best. 01:08:04.190 --> 01:08:17.470 I was just like, Yeah, if you'd have known that was a test, I mean put a test on anything, you might have put too much pressure on yourself and been like I was yeah, it was bonkers because I was on my way to a festival and I was already like ready in my festival gear, and I was just like, This is really awkward, but anyway, it's just a quick chat. 01:08:17.550 --> 01:08:21.149 And they were like, Oh yeah, we think you like I said, you'd be great on TV. 01:08:21.229 --> 01:08:25.309 And I'm just like your festival gear, hell, because you're like, Wow, she's quirky, isn't she? 01:08:25.470 --> 01:08:26.989 This one, and it's bonkers. 01:08:27.389 --> 01:08:28.189 That's brilliant. 01:08:28.670 --> 01:08:30.349 Absolutely bonkers, but yeah, it's great. 01:08:30.590 --> 01:08:34.189 They just they were so supportive through the whole process. 01:08:34.429 --> 01:08:41.949 As soon as I started speaking to them, I'd said that my father was really poorly and there's a chance I might lose him, and I might need to pull out from this. 01:08:42.029 --> 01:08:46.109 And I just wanted to be upfront with them and tell them that anything can happen. 01:08:46.269 --> 01:08:49.470 I might need to leave the country to go be with my dad, all these things. 01:08:49.710 --> 01:08:51.789 So I was completely transparent with them about everything. 01:08:51.869 --> 01:08:58.270 And they were like, at any point, you don't want to do it or you feel uncomfortable, just say, and it's fine, we will take care of it. 01:08:58.590 --> 01:09:04.270 Throughout the whole process, they were absolutely amazing with me, checked in on with checked in on me every day. 01:09:04.430 --> 01:09:05.550 They were just so kind. 01:09:05.789 --> 01:09:08.989 And what does that process of being on a television show look like? 01:09:09.630 --> 01:09:12.350 God, intense, really intense. 01:09:12.510 --> 01:09:14.109 I've never done anything like that before. 01:09:14.270 --> 01:09:19.230 I'm not comfortable with being on camera, and there was just so many elements to it. 01:09:19.310 --> 01:09:28.189 It was yes, being on TV, but also the actual amount of work that needed to be produced for this TV show that we only we were only gonna shoot over one or two days. 01:09:28.510 --> 01:09:40.590 So all the different stages of my pottery had to be kind of staggered, so you staggered to film it, but also it all needed all need to be done ahead because we were only going to be filming on those two days. 01:09:40.750 --> 01:09:52.350 So it was immense amount of work I had to produce in say two weeks, and getting it all fired and glazed and painted and finished and designed and thought happened in such a short period of time. 01:09:52.510 --> 01:09:55.550 It was literally like while dealing with grief. 01:09:55.789 --> 01:09:56.989 While dealing with grief. 01:09:57.310 --> 01:10:01.869 And at this point I was losing my dad while I was doing a lot of this. 01:10:02.189 --> 01:10:04.270 Oh no, sorry, I had just left lost him. 01:10:04.350 --> 01:10:07.470 But like the prep before was me losing my dad. 01:10:07.869 --> 01:10:13.869 But if I hadn't had that as my distraction, I still haven't I'm not sure I've completely processed it now. 01:10:14.829 --> 01:10:17.550 But what would I be doing? 01:10:17.949 --> 01:10:20.909 It was like they said they were gonna start filming up our house. 01:10:21.310 --> 01:10:25.069 Like the day after my dad died, I was like, we need to deck the garden. 01:10:25.149 --> 01:10:34.909 So I just went into the garden, went to Celco, got all the like timber and started decking the garden on the way to my pottery studio so it all looked nice and tidy kind of thing. 01:10:34.989 --> 01:10:39.789 I mean, it was on my plan to do, but it wasn't my plan to do the day after my father passed away. 01:10:40.029 --> 01:10:56.989 But again, even that I found really grounding because my dad taught me carpentry skills, and while I was making the decking, I was constant thought, you know, about my dad and reminding myself of what he would say about how to cut an angle and we're safe and all this kind of stuff. 01:10:57.149 --> 01:10:58.829 He was with me through the whole process. 01:10:59.069 --> 01:11:01.470 So yeah, that it really helped me. 01:11:02.109 --> 01:11:05.550 And what do you think the TV show has done for you moving forward? 01:11:05.789 --> 01:11:08.829 Because we've spoken about it, you still haven't watched it, have you? 01:11:08.989 --> 01:11:09.230 No. 01:11:09.390 --> 01:11:10.829 It aired in November. 01:11:11.149 --> 01:11:11.550 November. 01:11:11.869 -->

01:11:12.989 And you still haven't watched it? 01:11:13.069 --> 01:11:13.230 No. 01:11:13.390 --> 01:11:14.189 And that's fine. 01:11:14.350 --> 01:11:14.670 Yeah. 01:11:14.829 --> 01:11:17.710 But Holly Tucker, can we talk a little bit about her? 01:11:17.869 --> 01:11:19.230 What have you learned from her? 01:11:19.470 --> 01:11:21.869 Someone who is a very successful businesswoman. 01:11:22.189 --> 01:11:28.989 She's incredibly resilient and powerful in the strength that she brings. 01:11:29.310 --> 01:11:35.470 She's a massive believer of small businesses, and she actually started her career. 01:11:35.630 --> 01:11:38.590 Her work was making wreaths from fruit. 01:11:38.670 --> 01:11:39.710 That's how she started. 01:11:40.029 --> 01:11:47.630 She took part in those markets that I've been doing the last year or so, and then obviously developed her business and strategized what she does. 01:11:47.710 --> 01:11:53.230 And that's what makes her good at what she does because she also started from the very, very first step. 01:11:53.470 --> 01:11:54.750 It wasn't given to her. 01:11:54.989 --> 01:11:57.789 She worked hard, she works hard every day for what she does. 01:11:57.949 --> 01:12:00.510 She believes in me and other small businesses. 01:12:00.829 --> 01:12:08.510 She's the first person to shout about you and remind you that you're brilliant and that she believes in you, and that doesn't matter. 01:12:10.750 --> 01:12:11.149 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:12:11.310 --> 01:12:11.789 Exactly. 01:12:11.949 --> 01:12:12.430 Exactly. 01:12:12.750 --> 01:12:13.710 Quite reassuring. 01:12:13.869 --> 01:12:14.909 Very reassuring. 01:12:15.149 --> 01:12:17.470 And what was it like after the show? 01:12:17.630 --> 01:12:19.630 Because there is that level of comparison. 01:12:19.789 --> 01:12:27.949 You're looking around at the other businesses on the show, yeah, and they're all branded up, and you see they've got all boxes and all this packaging and this, that, and the other. 01:12:28.029 --> 01:12:31.390 And at this point, Sketch Avenue wasn't Sketch Avenue, was it? 01:12:31.550 --> 01:12:33.069 You hadn't really done much branding. 01:12:33.149 --> 01:12:34.109 It was just you making it. 01:12:34.350 --> 01:12:35.149 It was sketchy. 01:12:35.230 --> 01:12:40.189 It was still, you know, it was still in sort of like initial stages. 01:12:40.590 --> 01:12:43.470 I was nowhere near an established business. 01:12:43.710 --> 01:12:49.069 I did a few markets and a few bits and pieces here and there, and that was that's all I'd been doing. 01:12:49.310 --> 01:12:57.789 So we only got introduced to the other businesses just before the program aired because they wanted to keep everything separate and exclusive. 01:12:58.029 --> 01:13:04.430 And it was literally like, oh my god, these people have been business for 20 years or 10 years, and they've got like 100,000 followers already. 01:13:04.510 --> 01:13:05.550 And you know, what on earth? 01:13:05.630 --> 01:13:12.350 I've got there's me with my thousand followers, not knowing, not even buying a branded cardboard box to put my stuff in. 01:13:12.590 --> 01:13:14.350 Didn't even have, I think had stickers. 01:13:14.430 --> 01:13:15.550 That was the only branding I had. 01:13:15.630 --> 01:13:19.149 I haven't got a website, and then having to do all that overnight. 01:13:19.390 --> 01:13:24.670 And that comparison of yourself to the rest of these businesses, did you feel like, oh my god, I'm so far behind? 01:13:24.909 --> 01:13:26.189 I felt so intimidated by it. 01:13:26.270 --> 01:13:38.829 I felt so it's also interesting to me that the production company in Holly Tucker saw something within you, the work that was like, oh, it doesn't matter that she hasn't got a brand, it doesn't matter that she hasn't got 100,000 followers. 01:13:39.069 --> 01:13:39.869 We want this person. 01:13:40.189 --> 01:13:45.789 Yeah, I think they definitely saw something in the product and their story behind the product and my belief in what I'm doing. 01:13:46.029 --> 01:13:56.909 I think it's really interesting that they picked people from all different stages of their business and showed how you can grow a business at different stages and how business develops at different stages. 01:13:56.989 --> 01:13:58.909 So you don't do the same thing consistently. 01:13:59.149 --> 01:14:05.390 You have to evolve and you have to change and you have to meet your market needs or your business needs or your family needs, whatever it might be. 01:14:05.789 --> 01:14:07.550 I think they they did that really well. 01:14:08.510 --> 01:14:26.430 And at this point of the TV show, had you developed this because we spoke very briefly at the beginning about how you saw that there was a bit of a gap in the market, or there wasn't ceramic stuff being built around neurodivergence and some of the issues that you'd realised with NOAA. 01:14:26.829 --> 01:14:27.069 Yeah. 01:14:27.390 --> 01:14:32.670 So you started designing these products that were a bit more ergonomically based, right? 01:14:32.989 --> 01:14:33.310 That's right. 01:14:33.470 --> 01:14:36.989 So is this the work that you were doing before the show? 01:14:37.310 --> 01:14:39.470 This was work before I was doing the show. 01:14:39.630 --> 01:14:42.670 And the ergonomic side of things developed quite quickly. 01:14:42.829 --> 01:14:48.670 But after the first market or so that I did, I looked at what we had in our cupboards and I was like, we don't even have any mugs. 01:14:48.829 --> 01:14:50.670 We don't have mugs because they're so awkward to hold. 01:14:50.829 --> 01:14:53.390 And I've got RA, Noah's got dyspraxia. 01:14:53.630 --> 01:14:54.350 Sorry, what's RA? 01:14:54.510 --> 01:14:55.470 Rheumatoid arthritis. 01:14:55.710 --> 01:14:56.430 Apologies, yeah. 01:14:56.590 --> 01:15:00.829 And we struggle with grip, comfort, and you just get a bowl or something because it's more convenient. 01:15:00.989 --> 01:15:04.670 I hate

eating off a plate, I'd rather eat out of a big bowl, nothing's falling out, that kind of thing. 01:15:04.750 --> 01:15:08.510 And it was like I started to look at those elements of everyday life. 01:15:08.670 --> 01:15:14.109 And I wanted to create something for Noah initially that he would feel comfortable drinking out of. 01:15:14.270 --> 01:15:26.109 That wasn't a plastic cup or got a straw in it or something, something he could feel confident about and really appreciate the design element of it and just it be accessible for everybody. 01:15:26.270 --> 01:15:30.189 We don't have to have a sippy cup, a blue beaker with a white handle or whatever you get at the hospital. 01:15:30.350 --> 01:15:32.270 It's like, what why are we still in that era? 01:15:32.590 --> 01:15:33.470 What are we doing? 01:15:33.630 --> 01:15:34.989 It's insulting. 01:15:35.310 --> 01:15:38.750 But this is where those style elements of your work come in. 01:15:38.909 --> 01:15:39.550 Yeah. 01:15:39.789 --> 01:15:44.670 Because as as we say, we're not just throwing a mug with a bang average handle. 01:15:44.909 --> 01:15:45.949 No, we're altering the form. 01:15:46.270 --> 01:15:48.909 Altering the form, these look like mini sculptures. 01:15:48.989 --> 01:15:53.550 As we say, your background in sculpture, installation, architectural design. 01:15:53.949 --> 01:15:56.029 They're beautiful pieces of work. 01:15:56.270 --> 01:15:56.750 Thank you. 01:15:56.989 --> 01:16:01.470 Like you say, they're accessible pieces of artwork, but still usable ceramics. 01:16:01.789 --> 01:16:03.230 Yeah, that's always important. 01:16:03.390 --> 01:16:06.909 Having art that you can access, having art that you can use, you know. 01:16:07.230 --> 01:16:14.590 But having developed this style, essentially off the back of Noah, your room at all items, grip, all these different things. 01:16:14.750 --> 01:16:15.069 Yeah. 01:16:15.550 --> 01:16:17.310 You see a million different mugs. 01:16:17.630 --> 01:16:17.869 Yeah. 01:16:18.109 --> 01:16:19.630 But they weren't solving our problem. 01:16:20.029 --> 01:16:20.430 Exactly that. 01:16:20.670 --> 01:16:21.710 They weren't solving our problem. 01:16:21.949 --> 01:16:24.590 And that shows your creativity, which is the problem solving. 01:16:24.670 --> 01:16:24.829 Yeah. 01:16:25.069 --> 01:16:33.390 But as a result, has developed this style of work that just seems to set you apart from a lot of the other ceramicists that I've seen in the past. 01:16:33.630 --> 01:16:33.789 Yeah. 01:16:33.949 --> 01:16:35.550 There's a lot of talented people out there. 01:16:35.789 --> 01:16:36.829 Yeah, of course. 01:16:37.310 --> 01:16:37.869 Of course. 01:16:37.949 --> 01:16:42.909 And this is where you're trying to play it down a little bit, and I understand that, but I'm trying to big you up. 01:16:43.230 --> 01:16:43.710 Thank you. 01:16:44.029 --> 01:16:50.109 The show certainly shed light on what I was doing, and I have to say, it's been an amazing experience. 01:16:50.350 --> 01:16:54.350 Holly's advice has been to create a commercial product from the business side. 01:16:54.750 --> 01:16:57.710 I was going to ask how much because presumably the show's done now. 01:16:57.949 --> 01:16:59.149 Yeah, the show's done now. 01:16:59.390 --> 01:17:01.149 But do you still have contact with Holly? 01:17:01.230 --> 01:17:02.670 Is she still sort of a mentor? 01:17:02.829 --> 01:17:03.069 Yeah. 01:17:03.310 --> 01:17:05.230 And what have you this was my next question. 01:17:05.390 --> 01:17:09.710 What have you learned on what are the things you're taking forward from learning from the show? 01:17:10.029 --> 01:17:14.270 Like I say, I was an unestablished business, so to speak, last year. 01:17:14.510 --> 01:17:34.109 And what I have learnt from Holly, and I was going that way anyway, but I needed a bit of a push and guidance and someone to actually say, no, that's right, carry on doing this, or do this slightly differently, and to develop a more kind of commercial product, so to speak, that's accessible to everybody, not just the neurodiverse, not just the people that are into art, but even anybody. 01:17:34.270 --> 01:17:38.270 So we developed a line for Valentine's Day with classic song lyrics. 01:17:38.510 --> 01:17:40.350 I wasn't overly keen to start off with. 01:17:40.430 --> 01:17:42.909 But as did it feel too simplistic for you? 01:17:43.069 --> 01:17:43.550 It did. 01:17:44.029 --> 01:17:49.069 Because they're beautiful pieces, but they are, shall we say, more traditional ceramics. 01:17:49.230 --> 01:17:49.550 Yeah. 01:17:49.789 --> 01:17:52.189 But with elements of your quirkiness in, right? 01:17:52.350 --> 01:17:52.510 Yeah. 01:17:53.069 --> 01:17:54.109 Song lyrics you like. 01:17:54.350 --> 01:17:54.590 Yeah. 01:17:54.909 --> 01:17:57.310 Did the project a little bit about feminism? 01:17:57.390 --> 01:17:59.949 You'd talking about celebrated being called a MILF. 01:18:00.270 --> 01:18:01.789 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 01:18:02.029 --> 01:18:02.430 Exactly. 01:18:02.590 --> 01:18:07.550 So they're different things that have happened at different stages of developing what I'm doing. 01:18:08.109 --> 01:18:08.750 Yeah. 01:18:09.550 --> 01:18:12.829 The idea around that, that that these things sort of connect. 01:18:12.989 --> 01:18:16.989 Song lyrics, fun little things, laughter connects. 01:18:17.470 --> 01:18:22.909 Can we talk a little bit about some of the stuff you did around the MILF and the Yeah, I think there's a lot. 01:18:23.069 --> 01:18:27.310 So that all started last year for International Women's Day. 01:18:27.470 --> 01:18:31.310 So again, another gig I applied for, which I gratefully received. 01:18:31.470 --> 01:18:36.109 And I wanted to do something specifically for International Women's Day as part of my ceramics. 01:18:36.189 --> 01:18:45.069 And what I decided to do was just put words out there that were related to women that are often sometimes regarded as a negative.

01:18:45.470 --> 01:18:46.670 Such as, can you give us some advantage? 01:18:49.789 --> 01:18:52.270 Or things to do with HRT, we don't talk about it. 01:18:52.430 --> 01:18:56.590 And I wanted to, there's I'm perimenopausal and I don't know anything about it. 01:18:56.670 --> 01:18:58.590 There's nothing out there to support me. 01:18:58.750 --> 01:19:07.789 And in doing this, I was starting to have conversations with other women that were coming to my market store and saying, Oh, yeah, I'm a HRT champion because I've sussed it. 01:19:07.869 --> 01:19:08.829 I was like, How have you sussed it? 01:19:08.909 --> 01:19:09.470 What have you done? 01:19:09.550 --> 01:19:10.829 You know, why aren't we talking about this? 01:19:10.909 --> 01:19:11.550 Let's talk about this. 01:19:11.630 --> 01:19:17.149 And that's brought a whole load of friendships and conversations and collaborations, which has been great. 01:19:17.550 --> 01:19:22.750 And it's like, we don't talk about neurodiversity, we don't talk about the dopamine we need, dopamine we seek. 01:19:22.989 --> 01:19:25.149 It's not for everybody, but there's so many of us out there. 01:19:25.230 --> 01:19:26.909 It's like constantly seeking dopamine. 01:19:27.149 --> 01:19:28.270 Let's just put that out there. 01:19:28.430 --> 01:19:31.470 Let's just put that word out there and see what conversation it brings. 01:19:32.189 --> 01:19:38.510 Did you find that when you were doing our markets with this style of work, that it was perhaps starting more conversation? 01:19:38.829 --> 01:19:39.710 Absolutely. 01:19:39.949 --> 01:19:43.789 And I just loved it from the first collection I did. 01:19:43.949 --> 01:19:55.550 It just got people talking, it got people sharing, it got people starting to build communities where we're like, hold on, there's a new WhatsApp group about HRT and how it's affecting us and how to actually get it and how who we need to speak to. 01:19:55.630 --> 01:19:59.069 And it's this has all come from a little dish where it started a conversation. 01:19:59.149 --> 01:20:00.430 But that's how lots of things start. 01:20:00.590 --> 01:20:01.550 That's what art does, isn't it? 01:20:01.789 --> 01:20:04.510 Yeah, it starts conversations, brings people together. 01:20:05.390 --> 01:20:11.069 But did you get any opportunities off the back of the show that say weren't directly related? 01:20:11.390 --> 01:20:16.430 I have had a few people contact me about the accessibility side of my ceramics. 01:20:17.069 --> 01:20:19.390 In terms of the ergonomic nature of the ergonomic nature. 01:20:21.230 --> 01:20:21.710 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:20:21.789 --> 01:20:22.109 No, no. 01:20:22.189 --> 01:20:23.390 So absolutely, yes. 01:20:23.550 --> 01:20:29.869 So the ergonomic side, and obviously that's the heart of my ceramics, how we adapt to our objects every day. 01:20:30.029 --> 01:20:36.350 But I've had some really nice contacts and people kind of seeking out to have things custom made. 01:20:36.510 -->

01:20:50.270 And I think from the show, that's probably like the winner that I feel that has been the best thing for me, where I've developed a whole new range for a couple of clients who have MS and things and specifically designed for them to cope with their needs. 01:20:50.430 --> 01:20:50.989 Yeah, with MS. 01:20:51.630 --> 01:20:53.069 Exactly, exactly. 01:20:53.310 --> 01:20:54.270 And that fills my heart. 01:20:54.670 --> 01:20:56.750 I was gonna say, does that feel slightly more rewarding? 01:20:56.909 --> 01:20:57.789 Yeah, that's rewarding. 01:20:57.949 --> 01:21:00.909 That's what I want to be doing, that's what I love doing. 01:21:01.149 --> 01:21:02.510 It's time consuming. 01:21:02.670 --> 01:21:10.189 There's a lot of maths involved and weighing things up, measuring things out, sizes, grips, making sure it fits the person. 01:21:10.430 --> 01:21:14.350 Because we're all different, but you know, they've got a few more challenges than you and I. 01:21:14.590 --> 01:21:21.869 And working with a client like that to design things for them that change their life is just it's the most amazing feeling for me. 01:21:22.029 --> 01:21:29.470 It's just last week was amazing because I was getting pictures back of like them holding the cups and like how they're using it every day, and then things like that. 01:21:29.630 --> 01:21:31.550 This is what I want to be doing for the rest of my life. 01:21:31.630 --> 01:21:32.670 I don't need to retire from this. 01:21:32.989 --> 01:21:37.230 Amazing, and again, back to that amazing example that you're setting Noah as well now. 01:21:37.310 --> 01:21:48.750 Yeah, he's seeing his mum doing this thing that's inspiring him, yeah, helping others, yeah, using her creativity, and chopping and changing, like changing things up. 01:21:49.069 --> 01:21:50.989 Yeah, no, never stagnant. 01:21:51.149 --> 01:21:55.470 No, and is this a nice place to lead us on to some of your future plans? 01:21:55.869 --> 01:21:57.630 Uh what are my future plans? 01:21:59.869 --> 01:22:05.230 Getting these commissions, there's more markets, you're doing work with galleries now. 01:22:05.470 --> 01:22:06.350 Yeah, yeah. 01:22:06.590 --> 01:22:16.590 Are you feeling much more confident in your work, in yourself, as a result of this undeniable evidence that you've given yourself that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing? 01:22:16.829 --> 01:22:21.069 Yeah, I think this has definitely been the timing-wise the right time to be doing this. 01:22:21.149 --> 01:22:22.829 I don't think I'd be able to do this 20 years ago. 01:22:22.989 --> 01:22:25.869 I wouldn't have the knowledge and experience of life to be able to do this. 01:22:25.949 --> 01:22:29.149 I think there's a huge element of that in what I'm doing. 01:22:29.390 --> 01:22:41.550 A lot of my work is research intense in terms of learning about the different diversities, the different physical health problems people have and things like that. 01:22:41.789 --> 01:22:49.390

And I recently applied for a job at a school where they've got challenging needs for children. 01:22:49.710 --> 01:22:54.590 And this is now gonna form a huge part of my research and access to that research. 01:22:54.670 --> 01:23:12.590 And again, I think I don't know what's gonna happen in the future because anything can happen and it can take a diversion, but it all feels like it's steady at the moment and it's taking the right steps in the three or four things that I'm doing, and it's all kind of related and it comes together, and I'm really looking forward to what's gonna happen next. 01:23:13.069 --> 01:23:14.270 And what happens next? 01:23:14.430 --> 01:23:19.550 As I say, off the back of working with Holly Tucker, maybe perhaps some slightly more commercial ranges. 01:23:20.109 --> 01:23:26.029 I think there needs to be the balance, and because I like to have 20 things to work on at the same time, that's not gonna be a problem, hopefully. 01:23:26.430 --> 01:23:32.909 I think we need to have the commercial side because it's like the backbone of the business and it brings in a certain regular income. 01:23:33.149 --> 01:23:43.470 I think the art products that go into galleries have their own place too, and that gives me the time and the space to explore that exclusively without the pressure of that work needing to sell. 01:23:43.630 --> 01:23:46.270 So that work can go into exhibitions, etc. 01:23:46.670 --> 01:23:54.750 And then the kind of the middle product, which is specific to the ergonomic and people with health struggles or challenges. 01:23:54.989 --> 01:23:59.149 So I suppose there's three bits to it currently. 01:24:00.029 --> 01:24:03.550 And this new job's gonna help facilitate more of that, isn't it? 01:24:03.710 --> 01:24:07.390 Again, a bit like the translation was back in the day. 01:24:07.550 --> 01:24:23.470 It gives you that bit of stability, but you're within a world where you can do the research, it can help supplement, and I'm guessing they're gonna have lots of equipment and stuff that you can explore using, and and again, goes back to that nature of you helping these young people. 01:24:23.710 --> 01:24:25.949 Yeah, I think that's gonna be really lovely. 01:24:26.109 --> 01:24:31.069 And I think that is a little bit selfish as well, because it gives me so much back by helping these. 01:24:31.470 --> 01:24:35.069 Well, we talk there's there's no there's no selfless acts, but that's all right. 01:24:35.310 --> 01:24:35.869 That's all right. 01:24:35.949 --> 01:24:37.949 You're allowed to feel good for helping people. 01:24:38.189 --> 01:24:39.230 Yeah, I guess so. 01:24:39.390 --> 01:24:42.189 But I yeah, I think it's gonna be a really good experience. 01:24:42.350 --> 01:24:53.789 I think it's really gonna support my research really well, and having that hands-on experience day in, day out is I wouldn't be able to access that in any other way. 01:24:54.109 --> 01:24:56.270 How much time is that gonna take up for you? 01:24:56.510 --> 01:24:57.390 The teaching? 01:24:57.630 --> 01:25:00.430 So it'll be a couple of days, two or three days a week. 01:25:00.590 --> 01:25:01.069 Oh, that's cool. 01:25:01.149 --> 01:25:03.550 So you're still gonna have time to be able to do your own personal practices. 01:25:04.109 --> 01:25:04.829 Exactly, exactly. 01:25:04.909 --> 01:25:06.750 And I need that balance because otherwise it wouldn't work. 01:25:06.989 --> 01:25:07.310 Perfect. 01:25:07.470 --> 01:25:08.189 Yeah, it wouldn't work. 01:25:08.350 --> 01:25:10.189 And now Noah's a bit older. 01:25:10.590 --> 01:25:12.189 I mean, I know his challenges. 01:25:12.510 --> 01:25:14.989 Is he throwing a few pots or is it still too messy? 01:25:15.470 --> 01:25:16.189 Yeah, it's too messy for him. 01:25:16.590 --> 01:25:17.949 Does one everything too messy for him? 01:25:18.189 --> 01:25:19.710 Leave him in the accounts department, though. 01:25:19.789 --> 01:25:20.750 It sounds like he's good with the money. 01:25:20.989 --> 01:25:21.550 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:25:21.630 --> 01:25:23.710 He's good with money, he's definitely better with money than I am. 01:25:25.230 --> 01:25:27.149 Yeah, no, he's happy in the accounts department. 01:25:27.230 --> 01:25:28.510 He's also quite good at photography. 01:25:28.590 --> 01:25:29.230 So cool. 01:25:29.470 --> 01:25:36.750 I think the plan is over the summer he can do a lot more of the photos and edits and some of the kind of styled shoots and things like that. 01:25:36.909 --> 01:25:38.029 So very cool. 01:25:38.189 --> 01:25:38.989 Getting him involved. 01:25:39.310 --> 01:25:40.590 Yeah, in the art side of things. 01:25:40.670 --> 01:25:41.789 I think that'll be good. 01:25:42.109 --> 01:25:45.710 Is Noah showing any sort of creative aspirations? 01:25:46.590 --> 01:25:54.350 So at the moment, he's studying photography at school and creative media, as well as computer science and all the other kind of the ones you have to do. 01:25:54.750 --> 01:26:00.510 He's leaning more towards creative stuff at the moment, which is quite scary for me. 01:26:00.829 --> 01:26:02.350 Have the roles reversed now. 01:26:02.510 --> 01:26:02.829 Exactly. 01:26:03.069 --> 01:26:03.789 You're your parents. 01:26:03.949 --> 01:26:07.470 Don't go into that craving, it's not stable, you need to get a proper job. 01:26:07.789 --> 01:26:10.989 I find it so frightening that I'm turning into my parents. 01:26:11.069 --> 01:26:14.029 I'm like, no, just do computer science, be a computer programmer, you know. 01:26:14.189 --> 01:26:15.630 Um, and it's like, no, it's not fun. 01:26:15.710 --> 01:26:20.109 I'd rather be doing graphic design, it's more whatever, and it's scoring really high only is creative subjects. 01:26:20.270 --> 01:26:21.470 I'm just like, do you know what? 01:26:21.630 --> 01:26:25.310 You're gonna find what you love doing at the end of the day, and I'll always support that. 01:26:25.390 --> 01:26:25.710 Yeah. 01:26:25.949 -->

01:26:28.909 And if you when you don't love it, you find something else. 01:26:29.149 --> 01:26:30.109 Exactly. 01:26:30.430 --> 01:26:32.670 Any challenge, we always eliminate. 01:26:32.989 --> 01:26:37.149 Aisha, is there anything we haven't spoken about that you think we should? 01:26:37.390 --> 01:26:38.029 I don't know. 01:26:38.109 --> 01:26:39.789 I think we've spoken about quite a lot. 01:26:40.109 --> 01:26:47.149 I just it's one of those questions I always ask because I can only research people so much, and there might be some major element that I've missed out. 01:26:47.470 --> 01:26:49.390 No, I think we've covered quite a lot. 01:26:49.630 --> 01:26:55.149 I think creative communities are so important and creatives sharing other creatives. 01:26:55.390 --> 01:27:03.710 I used to feel like people are really quite reluctant to share other people's work out out of some sort of fear or something. 01:27:03.949 --> 01:27:08.590 To create communities and learn and continue to develop makes us better at what we do. 01:27:09.230 --> 01:27:10.829 There's a sound bite for you, people. 01:27:10.989 --> 01:27:12.750 Lovely, brilliant. 01:27:13.310 --> 01:27:16.670 So we do have a closing tradition on the Creative Noel Lamb podcast. 01:27:16.909 --> 01:27:27.149 We ask our guests to give us some sort of quote that resonates with you, and also someone in your world, someone in your network who you think might be an interesting guest to come on the podcast. 01:27:27.390 --> 01:27:30.590 So, over to you in any order you like. 01:27:30.909 --> 01:27:31.230 Okay. 01:27:31.710 --> 01:27:37.630 I think my closing quote will be she believed she could, so she did. 01:27:38.029 --> 01:27:40.670 Because I think that resonates well with what I've been doing. 01:27:40.989 --> 01:27:41.630 Certainly does. 01:27:41.789 --> 01:27:45.869 And do you always believe I don't think I stopped to consider believing anything. 01:27:45.949 --> 01:27:48.029 I just think I just rummage my way through it. 01:27:48.270 --> 01:27:49.710 The only way out is through, right? 01:27:49.789 --> 01:27:50.029 Yeah. 01:27:50.350 --> 01:27:50.430 Right. 01:27:50.829 --> 01:27:51.550 But that's pretty cool. 01:27:51.789 --> 01:27:53.630 That's that's yeah, maybe that should be the quote. 01:27:53.789 --> 01:27:54.750 The only way out is through. 01:27:55.069 --> 01:27:58.670 Either one is great and work specifically for your story. 01:27:58.829 --> 01:27:58.989 Yeah. 01:27:59.230 --> 01:28:03.869 And what about someone in your network that you think could be an interesting guest to come on a podcast? 01:28:04.189 --> 01:28:06.989 I think Natasha Tahim would be an interesting person. 01:28:07.230 --> 01:28:07.949 What does Natasha? 01:28:08.350 --> 01:28:16.829 She's an illustrator, primarily, but she's been hosting a queer Mendy night for about a year and a half or so and has brought together a lot of community. 01:28:18.189 --> 01:28:19.230 Mendy's like the henna. 01:28:19.710 --> 01:28:20.029 Oh, okay. 01:28:20.270 --> 01:28:22.350 South Asian henna that's applied on the hands. 01:28:22.510 --> 01:28:23.390 She's pretty cool. 01:28:23.550 --> 01:28:27.149 I think she'd bring some interesting dynamics to the podcast. 01:28:27.470 --> 01:28:28.189 Sounds interesting. 01:28:28.430 --> 01:28:32.750 And then there's another friend which you might consider, Sophie Chandler. 01:28:32.909 --> 01:28:35.550 She's a decorator and hairdresser. 01:28:36.350 --> 01:28:41.390 And she would bring a really interesting, both creative dynamic, both very creative powerhouse women. 01:28:41.630 --> 01:28:45.789 Have you two done work together with your interior skills and her interior skills? 01:28:46.029 --> 01:28:48.109 Not yet, but we've talked about collaborating in the future. 01:28:48.350 --> 01:28:48.750 There you go. 01:28:48.909 --> 01:28:49.869 Yeah, there you go. 01:28:50.270 --> 01:28:56.510 Well, Aisha, I guess all that's left to say is thank you so much for coming and telling your story on the podcast. 01:28:57.069 --> 01:28:57.949 Thank you for having me, Matt. 01:28:58.109 --> 01:28:58.670 It's been amazing. 01:28:58.909 --> 01:28:59.710 It's my absolute pleasure. 01:28:59.869 --> 01:29:07.789 And I hope everyone can be inspired through some of the challenges that you faced to just keep pushing forward. 01:29:08.109 --> 01:29:08.989 Yeah, absolutely. 01:29:09.390 --> 01:29:11.149 You believed you could, and you did. 01:29:11.310 --> 01:29:11.949 And I did. 01:29:12.109 --> 01:29:13.789 And yeah, keep doing what you're doing. 01:29:13.949 --> 01:29:14.430 Thank you so much. 01:29:14.670 --> 01:29:17.949 Sharing the spotlight on us the artist is all we're trying to do. 01:29:18.109 --> 01:29:18.670 Shine alive. 01:29:19.630 --> 01:29:21.390 Amazing, interesting, inspiring humans. 01:29:21.630 --> 01:29:23.390 So once again, Aisha, thank you. 01:29:23.470 --> 01:29:25.149 Everyone go and check out her work. 01:29:25.550 --> 01:29:26.590 Thanks very much, Matt. 01:29:26.670 --> 01:29:27.470 Thank you. 01:29:28.989 --> 01:29:32.109 Thanks for listening to the Creative Noahland podcast. 01:29:32.350 --> 01:29:39.789 If you found anything in this episode useful or inspiring, please consider subscribing or sharing it with a friend. 01:29:40.029 --> 01:29:47.869 You can also help the podcast by clicking the support the show link in the show notes or by grabbing yourself something from the Creative Noahland shop. 01:29:48.109 --> 01:29:49.470 And here's the bonus. 01:29:49.710 --> 01:29:57.230 When you join the community through our website, you'll get a special discount code that gives you free shipping on all orders. 01:29:57.789 --> 01:30:02.109 So, before you buy anything, be sure to join the community. 01:30:02.350 --> 01:30:07.149 Every bit of support helps us keep sharing these inspiring stories. 01:30:07.390 --> 01:30:14.350 So, thanks again for listening and until next time, explore, inspire, and create. 01:30:15.230 --> 01:30:21.149 Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way. 01:30:22.109 --> 01:30:24.590 And so, therefore, it's so important.