บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Steven Webster - Asensei

00:03:43.479 take over the club as the as the main coach, 68 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:47.080 and so I coached for over a decade the University 69 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.360 of Edinburgh. And to be honest, like I learned as 70 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:51.680 I was going, I'm sure we'll get into it. But 71 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.599 you know, obviously I had my coaching qualifications that you 72 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:58.280 need to you know, can you put a bandage on 73 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:04.120 and you know, don't hurt children. But you know, I 74 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:06.840 learned a lot as I went, and you know, studied 75 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:09.360 with some great instructors and you know, learned to teach 76 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:11.240 by watching them teaching, be top by them. So I'm 77 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:12.759 sure we'll get into it. But yeah, that's where my 78 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:15.599 passion and background in coaching came from. 79 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:18.839 Yeah, going into that, you coached, well you start off 80 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:21.279 by captaining and then you coached the Edinburgh University Karate 81 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:25.199 club to I believe a strike of ten national championships. 82 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:27.920 What do you think led to that success and what 83 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.879 did you learn from I guess that coaching experience. 84 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.600 Yeah, I mean, so the story is when I took 85 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:36.600 the club over, when the university asked me to take 86 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:38.800 the club over, the club is on the brink of collapse, 87 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:43.800 and we hadn't as a club competed in tournaments for 88 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:47.480 a good few years. And I took the club over 89 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.240 just a few weeks before the national championships, and I 90 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:54.120 told the club, we're entering. Even though nobody in the 91 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:56.360 club had been in an event before. It is like, 92 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:59.439 we're entering, so we've all got that first time experience 93 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.439 under our belts so that we can go back next 94 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:05.240 year and win. And that's what we did. We went 95 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.360 we got pretty beat. I think a couple of the 96 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:13.480 team managed to get bronze medals, but we went back 97 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:15.839 the next year and we won. We swept the whole 98 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:18.920 you know, to win the championship means to meddle the 99 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:24.360 most in men's women's committee, the fighting and kata forms 100 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:29.839 individual and teams across all categories. And so we did win, 101 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.160 which was phenomenal, and so then I had the arrogance 102 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:36.079 of youth to say, like, we're going to do three 103 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:37.759 in a row. We're going to go for the travel, 104 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.360 and we did. And so when we did three, obviously 105 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:44.800 I went to ten and I told the world We're 106 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:48.000 going to win ten in a row and regretted it 107 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:51.839 around about year six and seven. It's a hard goal 108 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:54.800 to hit. But we just really built a culture of 109 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:57.439 excellence in the club. I mean, and I didn't just 110 00:05:57.480 --> 00:05:59.800 teach sport karatti. I also taught a lot of self 111 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:02.600 to events, which is couldn't be more different to sport karate. 112 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:07.079 But I kind of really built this culture of we're 113 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:08.759 going to learn to play the game, and we're going 114 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:10.439 to learn to play the rules, and we're going to 115 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:14.519 approach our training very differently. And yeah, I mean, I'm 116 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.600 sure we'll get into it, but we were very unorthodox 117 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:22.560 in our approach, and that's that's the entrepreneur emerging. But 118 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.879 we were very unorthodox in our approach. And a reference 119 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:28.399 you might like, I kind of referenced it to like 120 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:31.839 strictly ballroom was it? What was the movie where it 121 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:33.839 was the ballroom Dancer. 122 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:35.600 That, yeah, strictly Yeah, strictly. 123 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.279 Yeah, we were kind of the strictly ballroom of British 124 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:42.240 karate people saying that's not karate that they're doing. 125 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:44.240 Oh really, so it's like, can you give me some 126 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:48.319 examples of what's changed and how you how you did that? 127 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:53.439 Yeah, it's funny. It's one of the most important things 128 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:56.680 in martial arts is distancing and timing. I mean, it's 129 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:59.560 a it's a game of distance and timing right, And 130 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.040 there's ninety nine percent of clubs that you'll walk into 131 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:08.240 karate clubs you start at extreme distance apart from your partner. 132 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.439 You know, you can't reach each other and touch each other. 133 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:13.160 And it's only after you're a black belt do you 134 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.759 get into like close quarters or close range combat. Because 135 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:18.839 I was already a black belt in jiu jitsu and 136 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:23.120 more comfortable at close range when I started karate. When 137 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:25.560 I started teaching, I turned a

syllabus on its head 138 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:28.439 and said, day one, you're going to be nose to 139 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:31.199 nose with your partner and you're going to get comfortable 140 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:34.519 at that level and then we'll work the distance backwards. 141 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:38.279 And that immediately was just an advantage that my team 142 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.879 were just very comfortable in that moment that most people have, 143 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:46.040 that you know, cold water shock moment. And then the 144 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:48.720 other thing I did, and you know, this really kind 145 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.480 of mirrors my kind of startup world as well, is 146 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:57.360 everybody loves repertoire. Everybody wants to collect new techniques. I 147 00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:59.519 want to learn the spinning kicks and the hook kicks 148 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:02.240 in the back hands and the you know, the backfists, 149 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:05.079 and and I decided that the only way we were 150 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:08.279 going to win a tournament going from zero to the 151 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:13.319 next year was if we only learned one technique, and 152 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:16.839 so the reverse punch, the backhand punch, that is all 153 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.600 I allowed my club to throw in sport cratti. We didn't, 154 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:22.439 you know, when we were doing other stuff, we would 155 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:25.480 learn everything, but the rule was if you were competing, 156 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:27.839 you were only allowed to score with a reverse punch, 157 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:30.800 which seems kind of boring, but what it allowed me 158 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.799 to do was, now that I've got the technique out 159 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:36.080 the way, I can really make sure people are doing 160 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:39.159 that technique well. We were able to focus on all 161 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:41.679 the all the ways you score the technique, your footwork, 162 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:44.720 you're timing, you're distancing, making sure the referee is always 163 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:46.440 on the side that he'll see the point and not 164 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:49.480 miss the point. And and so you know, again I'm 165 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:52.000 talking to that unorthodoxy of like, but when when you 166 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:55.000 can strain one thing, it opens up a whole other 167 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:57.919 set of things that you can coach instead. And so, 168 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.120 you know, every single one of my students and a team, 169 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:04.240 they were tacticians that were strategists. They underscored how they 170 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:08.440 understood how to make the point score. And then you know, 171 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:10.840 as we became more accomplished as a team, we would 172 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:13.039 start to layer in more and more techniques and more 173 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.600 and more repertoire. But the foundations were really really good. 174 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:18.360 And I think one of the things I'm most proud 175 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.320 about that is three or four years later, when you 176 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:23.720 showed up at a karate competition, every other club was 177 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:26.159 doing the same. They kind of realized that, you know, 178 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:29.720 this is the way to at beginner level, everybody was 179 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:32.000 doing the same. So yeah, I think that was a 180 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:36.200 secret to our success was like simplicity in how we 181 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:38.320 approached repertoire. 182 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.039 Yeah, it's really interesting because it almost changed the way 183 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:46.399 the sport was, I guess couched. And then also you're 184 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.279 just focusing on getting one aspect of it really really 185 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:53.480 high quality rather than trying to do lots and lots 186 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:57.840 of different things at a dicing quality. So right, it 187 00:09:57.919 --> 00:09:59.799 sort of shows that if you can, if you can 188 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:03.480 because on one thing really really well, it can lead 189 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:04.960 to a lot of success. You don't need to be 190 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.679 a master of everything exactly. Yeah, you mentioned you mentioned 191 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.919 the word entrepreneur before you worked in you worked with Adobe, Microsoft, 192 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.840 and now you run your own business. And correct me 193 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:22.039 if I say this incorrectly. A sense A sense okay, 194 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:25.679 sense people say a sense as well, but sense okay. 195 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:29.799 So how how did your time in big tech influence 196 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:35.080 how you began solving problems in coaching and fitness in 197 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:36.320 those sorts of areas as well. 198 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:41.759 I mean it's actually the other way around. I would say, 199 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.759 how I approach You know, I learned a lot on 200 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:48.200 the map, on the timing, I learned a lot. You know. 201 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:51.080 It was a period. It was in my twenties, right, 202 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:53.399 and I'm standing up in front of a class of 203 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:55.840 I had a big club and the club was, you know, 204 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:57.720 over one hundred people at the start of the year, 205 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:01.399 sometimes closer to two hundred, so you know, three or 206 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.360 four times a week, I'm standing in the middle of 207 00:11:03.399 -->

00:11:06.679 a sports hall commanding the attention of like one hundred students, 208 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.000 you know, assessing their ability, coaching them, bringing the best 209 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.200 out of them, you know, turning them into a team, 210 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:17.960 building camaraderie, building a culture around a team. And you 211 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:20.879 know that really served me well. You know, when I 212 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:24.799 joined Adobe through the acquisition of my first company. I 213 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:29.799 had a small software consultancy that Adobe acquired. But then 214 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:33.519 when I landed in Adobe, those same skills of you know, 215 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.240 suddenly I'm leading teams of hundreds of people around the world. 216 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:39.519 And it was the skills I learned on the mat 217 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:42.919 that I was leaning on. Yeah, because I mean, if 218 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:45.960 you're working for Adobe or you're working for Microsoft, you're smart. 219 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.519 You know, you're technically accomplished. You know, you don't need 220 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:52.159 me teaching you how to code or teaching you engineering. 221 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:55.399 But that kind of like building culture and building a 222 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:58.240 team and building purpose and shared values and shared vision. 223 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:02.759 I'm a big fan of Circle Woodward, the former England 224 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:06.399 rugby coach, and when we had our very first board 225 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:08.679 meeting at a Sense, we gave all the board members 226 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:12.320 a copy of Sir Clive's book called Winning, and he 227 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:14.879 talks a lot about, you know, the lessons that he 228 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:16.840 learned in business and how he applied them to sport 229 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:19.960 and vice versa. And even to this day, you know, 230 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:23.720 concepts like critical non essentials and performance by the aggregation 231 00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:27.519 of marginal gains, all these kind of circlivisms. We talk 232 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:29.679 about them even to this day a lot as a 233 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:32.559 team and a lot with our customers. And so, yeah, 234 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:37.240 I think sport has influenced my success of being able 235 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:39.879 to have in my career. And in a way, that's 236 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:41.879 what we're trying to do with the SENSEI is like, 237 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:44.240 how can we use sport and fitness as something that 238 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:47.960 if everybody can realize their athletic potential, you give them 239 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.519 a glimpse of their broader human potential. And so, you know, 240 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:53.799 I think coaching sport is is noble in something that 241 00:12:53.799 --> 00:12:55.519 we should try and scale with digital. 242 00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:58.919 Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that book by Clive Woodwood. 243 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:02.399 I read the same book in early in my coaching 244 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:06.320 career and I learned a lot from it, and I've know, 245 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:09.519 highlighted pages and I've got little sticky notes in different 246 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:11.279 pages and I go back to it quite regularly. 247 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.720 And so we've got a scottsman that read an English 248 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.879 rugby Coaches book, and we've got an Australian who've got 249 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:19.639 Smash Bath the English subject of the book. 250 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:25.519 So yeah, book, it's a great book. Yes, unfortunately it's 251 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:28.159 from an English rugby coach that beat us at a 252 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:31.320 World Cup final. But no, it was a great book. 253 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:34.279 And I think he talks about reading quite a few 254 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:38.120 other books on his journey of learning, and I think 255 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.919 that also led me to some other books, good to great, 256 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:44.759 which are again a business associated books that you can 257 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:48.919 utilize in sport and vice versus the sports aspects you 258 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:51.480 can utilize in business. And what was a pivotal moment 259 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:54.320 where you realize that technology could bridge the gaps in 260 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:59.480 traditional coaching methods or take you from, you know, someone 261 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:02.639 in the teach tech industry into the couching and trying 262 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:03.399 industry again. 263 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:06.440 Yeah, you know, I mean it's interesting, you know, you know, 264 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:08.240 I was a nerd as a kid, right My dad 265 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:10.279 was an electrical engineer. I was the first kid in 266 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:13.240 my town to have a home computer, so I was 267 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:17.559 always surrounded by technology. You know, learning to code. Now, 268 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:19.960 it's everybody's learning to code when they're young, but that 269 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:23.080 wasn't normal. I was learning to code when I was 270 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:26.879 young and so playing sport even as a kid, I 271 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:29.320 was like, how can I how can I practice and 272 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.519 have the technology tell me that I'm getting better? So 273 00:14:34.279 --> 00:14:36.480 a huge number of failed experiments. I don't know if 274 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.720 any of them even worked in the end, But how 275 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:42.200 can my punch bag tell me how hard I'm hitting

it? 276 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:44.039 Or how can I have like a light light up 277 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.440 on my punch bag and measure my reaction time? Or 278 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:49.519 how can I wire up something I played a lot 279 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.320 of like street hockey and ice hockey as well. I 280 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:54.799 was always shooting pocks in my backyard off a piece 281 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.639 of plywoods because there's not enough ice outdoors in Scotland, 282 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:01.679 and so was always just trying to figure out, like 283 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.960 can I make things that will, you know, make my 284 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:08.840 practice more fun because I'm practicing in my garage by 285 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.440 myself or in my backyard by myself. Make my practice 286 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:15.440 more fun. So it's kind of been a constant itch 287 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.279 of all was scratched. And then as I was coaching 288 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:22.159 at the university, I think we know genuinely had one 289 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:26.200 of the very first karate websites on the Internet. I 290 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:28.200 mean I was there when the Mosaic. I was at 291 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:31.759 university when the Mosaic Browser, the first browser launched. And 292 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:33.919 I mean I remember a day when I thought I'd 293 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:35.639 read the whole Internet. There was no more links I 294 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:37.960 could click on that I hadn't clinked on before before 295 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:41.240 search engines, right, or you know when Yahoo was really 296 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:44.399 a directory, not a search engine. And so you know, 297 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:46.759 I had a website from a karate club, and even 298 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.639 then I was like sharing my coaching and sharing my 299 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.360 knowledge in a way my students could download it, putting 300 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:56.720 videos online when that was not an easy thing to 301 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.600 do because you were recording them on tape. But to 302 00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:04.320 answer your question, I would fast forward to my last 303 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:08.159 real job from after Adobe. I went to Microsoft, and 304 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:10.960 I think going to Microsoft, I already knew that I 305 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:13.720 wanted to start another company. I just didn't know what 306 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:15.960 it was going to be yet, and I wanted to 307 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.240 do something that was kind of in the health space. 308 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.039 Just from an altruistic perspective, I was like, I want 309 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:25.639 to apply my talent, if you like, to something that 310 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:30.399 makes people healthier or fits our with technology. And then 311 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.399 long story short, I kind of had that moment of like, 312 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.039 wait a minute, you know you were a pretty good coach, 313 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.879 and can you coach sport and fitness and use that 314 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:43.399 as a gateway to healthcare. And when it was at Microsoft, 315 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.000 I got to know the team that invented the Microsoft 316 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.200 Connect and pointing at one that invented the Microsoft Connect, 317 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:54.000 that camera that plugged into the Xbox, and you know, 318 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:56.559 there were some games on the Xbox for yoga, and 319 00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:59.200 like Nike brought a game out. And then I spent 320 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.879 some time not working in but working with the Xbox 321 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:07.039 Fitness team, and I was beginning to see two worlds collide. 322 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:12.039 One was machines are beginning to be able to understand 323 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.559 human movement. I mean back then it was like very superficial. 324 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:17.640 Did you move left, did you move right? It wasn't 325 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:22.119 the finesse of a sports coach. But machines were starting 326 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:24.039 to understand movement. And then the other thing that was 327 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:26.240 happening at that time at Microsoft, I was deep in 328 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:28.960 the world that we're just kind of emerging into now, 329 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.720 which is the world of intelligent agents. So over a 330 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:36.240 decade ago now at Microsoft, my team was very much 331 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.640 imagine a future where we have these digital agents that 332 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:42.559 know us and know our context and our data and 333 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.160 our preferences and can kind of act on our behalf 334 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:48.720 either with other agents as brokers, or they can be 335 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:52.799 guides for us with our health, with our education. And 336 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.319 I tried to take Microsoft in that direction over a 337 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:58.240 decade ago, and it's really hard to move an organization 338 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.079 the size of Microsoft. And so I just had this 339 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:04.720 Eureka moment of like, you know what, I think. I 340 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:08.240 think I can coach karate and therefore any other sport 341 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.480 just through a machine that recognizes and understands human movement 342 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:15.279 and has this kind of AI coach that coaches me. 343 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:18.359 And so I'll pause for breath there, but that's when 344 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:20.039 I had the moment of like, I got to quit 345 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:21.720 my

job and do this, Like I got to build 346 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:23.640 this company. It was it was a calling for sure. 347 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:28.160 Now that led to us and SAI and what exactly 348 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.839 is it and how does it work? Is it specifically 349 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:32.400 initially just for karate. 350 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:35.440 Or it was never meant for karaiti. I kind of figured, like, 351 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:38.720 you know, you don't just you don't start in the 352 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:41.160 market just because it's your favorite. You know, you kind 353 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:43.319 of really want to think about, like what's the broader opportunity. 354 00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:44.559 But let me back up and tell you what a 355 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.480 sense he is. So we've made human movement something a 356 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:50.559 machine can understand. We're kind of like speech recognition for 357 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:55.279 a movement, and we really do three things. The first 358 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.640 is kind of performance catcher or motion catch er, and 359 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:02.640 that breaks down to th things itself. So the first 360 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.039 thing we recognize in real time, just using a regular camera, 361 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:09.039 the camera that's on your laptop or your smartphone, or 362 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.720 your TV, or if you've got some connected fit that's 363 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.039 hardware with a screen on it, just that RGB camera, 364 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:18.519 that cheap five dollars camera, we're able to create a 365 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.039 three D model of your skeleton in real time. So 366 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:26.480 we've got your buying, we've captured your biomechanics. Now, the 367 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.680 problem with that skeleton is the coordinate system that XYZ 368 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.079 positions of all the piece parts of the body. The 369 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:36.200 origin of that coordinate system is your hips. Every other 370 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:39.359 coordinate is relative to where your hips is. So that skeleton, 371 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:41.119 even though we see it on screen and it looks 372 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.319 like it's standing on the floor, it's actually just disembodied 373 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:46.519 and floating in space. It doesn't know where it is. 374 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:50.559 So the second thing we've developed is another computer vision 375 00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.720 model called a special model that moves that origin from 376 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:55.839 the hips to the lens of the camera, and so 377 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:58.240 now we know is that skeleton moved left as it 378 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:01.359 moved right, vertical jumps the center mask, what's the lowest 379 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:03.279 point to the floor, what's the

highest point of the ceiling. 380 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:07.079 So now we've got special information. And the final thing 381 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.839 we've added is another vision model for equipment recognition. So 382 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:13.200 we can recognize that you're holding a power Block Pro 383 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:16.440 fifty dumbbell and it's racked at twenty five pounds. We 384 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.799 can see cones on the field, we can see lines 385 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:20.720 on the field, we can see the post on your 386 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.640 hockey goal. You know, we can pick out objects and 387 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:27.839 how that person is interacting with them in the room. 388 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.160 So that's giving us the eyes of a coach. That's 389 00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:33.359 we've now taught the machine to like look at what 390 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.359 the coach would look at and see what the coach 391 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:39.240 would see. Right. The next part, which was the grand 392 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:43.240 problem that we wondered if we could solve, is movement recognition. 393 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:46.359 With all of that information, can I actually tell that 394 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:48.799 James just did a deadlift, or he's in a Warrior 395 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:51.559 two pos at yoga, or he's doing a bird dog 396 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.200 in his physical therapy, or you know, et cetera. Et cetera. 397 00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:01.079 Can we quickly teach a machine to understand postures and 398 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:04.119 movements like a dead lift or a rowing stroke or 399 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:08.200 a you know, an entire yoga flow or karate kata. 400 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:10.640 And so we've done that in a way that no 401 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.359 one else has, and we have this like super reliable 402 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.920 and super robust ability to not just recognize movements, but 403 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:21.039 then kind of understand the quality and the finesse you 404 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:24.799 We think, like martial arts instructures, are you doing that 405 00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:26.759 movement at white belt level? Or are you doing that 406 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:28.920 movement at a black belt level? Or what do you 407 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:31.319 need to learn next to move from the level you're 408 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.079 at to the next level you should be So we 409 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:34.960 can unpack that later if you like, the kind of 410 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.240 whole idea of pedagogy and coaching syllabus. And then the 411 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.279 final part, which is the part that you know people 412 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.839 are lead, is all of this like real time data 413 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:47.279 that we're catching and generating on what you're doing and 414 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:49.519 how

well you're doing it. Now we have to speak 415 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:51.519 like a coach, like now we have to have the 416 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:53.559 know how of a coach, and like, what as a 417 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:57.440 coach would I do in this moment? Now if you're already. 418 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:01.119 Should you familiar with the idea of like conscious competence 419 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:04.640 and unconscious competence. If you're consciously competent, all I need 420 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.559 to do is que you. You're oh, yeah, I forgot, 421 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.759 But if you're unconsciously incompetent, queueing you doesn't make any 422 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:13.920 difference whatsoever. I need to teach you. I need to 423 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:15.680 show you. I need to break the movement down and 424 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.079 the whole part, whole coach it to you. It's what 425 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:22.359 we call coaching intelligence, and it's how do we, you know, basically, 426 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.160 teach the syllabus and intervene with the athlete at the 427 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:27.640 right time, in the right way. And this is now 428 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:30.599 going all the way to we're able to create digital 429 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.880 clons of a coach's voice and have them in your ear, 430 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.279 and it's just like the coach is there. And if 431 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:39.519 you do a squad and you show neive August, they'll 432 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:43.160 immediately ask you to remember pressure knees out as if X, 433 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:45.759 and you'll make that correction. In the second you make 434 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.920 that correction, you'll hear that coaching you were say, great 435 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:52.759 fix or great correction or a good job or so yeah. Basically, 436 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.640 take away all of that technology you stand in front 437 00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:57.200 of a camera and you hear a coach in your 438 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:01.839 ear coaching you any sport, movement, physical thirty of your choice. 439 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:06.359 First of all, it sounds absolutely amazing that just stitting 440 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:10.039 in front of a video camera can do that. When 441 00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:14.839 you talked about unconscious coaching and conscious coaching, I think 442 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:16.759 I missed it. Did you say that it can pick 443 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:18.400 up what it can coach you to the level that 444 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:21.279 you're you're at? So you know, like you talked about 445 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:24.599 white belt karate skill compared to a black belt karate skill. 446 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:30.799 And so the way we recognize movement is unique, it's proprietory, 447 00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:34.440 and we first recognize what we call the lowest common 448 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.720 denominator of the movement. Okay, so the lowest common denominator 449 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:42.039 of the movement is if I show you, like James today, 450 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:43.880 we're going to do a reverse punch. Let me show 451 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:45.920 you a reverse punch. I do it like this, I 452 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:50.039 stand this way, I do xynz. Now it's your turn. 453 00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.920 You do one that honest, faithful attempt you made to 454 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.160 do what I just showed you. You should get recognition 455 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:01.039 for that. It's no offense. Maybe you're awesome karate from 456 00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:04.440 the start, but probably you're making a whole bunch of mistakes. 457 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:07.359 Your proprieception is poor. What you saw, you know, it 458 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.839 doesn't attach to your body immediately. But if I see 459 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:16.039 that lowest common denominator of the movement, well, first of all, 460 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:17.839 if I don't see it, I can a sense you 461 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:19.480 can fix it. So let's say I'm like, I want 462 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:21.079 you to step forward on your left leg, and you 463 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.319 actually step forward on your right leg. A sense you 464 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.079 would be able to queue you to switch your legs 465 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.119 round and get you into position and get you set 466 00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:31.480 up correctly. But once you're set up correctly and you're 467 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:35.519 hitting the lowest common denominator of the posture or the movement, 468 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:39.119 we then have this system that we call nuances. And 469 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:42.079 nuances are all the points of performance that a coach 470 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:45.720 might care about. So again, let's stick with a squad, 471 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:48.960 because everybody understands squats right, so that the nuances in 472 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.720 a squad might be are you getting to an appropriate depth? 473 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.680 Are you exhibit nevalgus or is your torso pitching forward? 474 00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.079 Is there asymmetry on the way down you kind of 475 00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:00.319 go down on right and then go down on the left, 476 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:02.599 or do you pitch forward as you stand back up. 477 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.640 So there's positive nuances. I think of those as finesse. 478 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:09.279 Those are like, oh sweet, do you see the way 479 00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:11.519 he kind of like covered his head as he threw 480 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.480 that punch. That's a positive nuance. And then there's negative nuances. 481 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:17.079 Do you see the way that he pulls that hand 482 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:19.599 back before

he throws the punch. He's telegraphing that punch. 483 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:24.799 I'm gone from squats to fighting again. Sorry, And so 484 00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.559 you know a sense he has trained to recognize all 485 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:31.319 of those nuances, but we allow so maybe an important 486 00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:35.759 point to make is we're an ingredient technology. So other brands, 487 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:40.279 other equipment manufacturers, you know, other digital fitness apps, they're 488 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:43.079 putting our technology inside their products so that we can 489 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:47.480 provide these capabilities, and so we allow their coaches to decide. 490 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:49.400 We're not the source of truth for what a good 491 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:53.480 squad is worldwide. All we're saying is we can observe 492 00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.240 all of these nuances, and you can tell us what's 493 00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:58.880 the order of importance, what's the white belt to black belt? 494 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:02.960 And not only what's the order of importance, what do 495 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.839 you do when you see them? Like if you see 496 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:07.440 torso tilt forward on a squad. Are you going to 497 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.039 cue it every single time? Or would you leave it 498 00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:12.640 unless you saw it three times in a row, then 499 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:14.680 you might cue it or would you leave it completely. 500 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.519 But then the next thing you do that exercise, do 501 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:21.039 what we call intention set, which is like last thing 502 00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.839 we did these squats, James, I saw your torso pitching forward, 503 00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:26.440 So this time I want you to think about showing 504 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:29.200 me the badge on your chest, so we might use 505 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:32.759 something we saw previously to change the setup instructions the 506 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:35.480 next thing we do it. So we call that a 507 00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:38.480 coaching strategy, and that's something we allow the coach to do. 508 00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:41.720 So in a nutshell, yeah, we don't just recognize movement. 509 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.960 We can kind of like grade you and see where 510 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:48.119 you are, and then what's coaching if it's not just 511 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:49.839 like where are you? And what's the one next thing 512 00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:51.359 I teach you? If I never see you again, I 513 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:55.400 made you like incrementally better. It's aggregation of marginal gains, right, 514 00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:57.720 It's like just next, next, next, And so that's how 515 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:02.480 a SENSEI teaches on behalf of courches who otherwise aren't there. 516 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:05.960

Steve, and I've seen on your website some images of 517 00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:10.799 athletes rowing and yoga, and i'd sort of explain it 518 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:13.640 to any listeners sort of like something from the matrix, 519 00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:16.079 where you've got the arrows and the angles around all 520 00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:19.400 the body, and you've got the the AI coach giving 521 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:21.759 them feedback on you know, the rower. I think there's 522 00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:24.160 something to do with pulling their scaps back. I'm trying 523 00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:27.119 to get into into my head. You talked about the 524 00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:31.319 actual aspects of the skills that are being identified. Is 525 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:35.960 that set up manually by the by coaches or is 526 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.599 that is that just does the system automatically recognize that 527 00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:42.000 and start to a good question. 528 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:45.279 It's a good question. So, I mean we provide sensible defaults, right, 529 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:47.039 I mean, a squat is a squad as a squad 530 00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:49.640 and most people will agree that evargus is egregious and 531 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:51.839 you want to fix it. And so we certainly have 532 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.440 We have exercise satanists in our team, and we you know, 533 00:27:55.559 --> 00:28:01.920 we say it's sensible defaults. However, almost especially when in fitness, 534 00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.799 you know, if if some of our customers are using 535 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:06.599 our technology and it's like you know, we'll count your 536 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.119 reps and we'll give you form feedback and we'll set 537 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:12.559 challenges for your rep targets or am wraps, and you know, 538 00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:17.519 there the brand is less likely to care so much about, 539 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:20.759 you know, the finesse of coaching. But when you start 540 00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:23.160 getting into physical therapy or you start getting into kind 541 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:26.279 of sports performance, there are strong points of view on 542 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.240 how you should coach. And every I mean, karate is 543 00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:32.240 like religious debate on everything from should your he'll be 544 00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:34.720 on the ground or not when you punch and clearly 545 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:39.279 it shouldn't be, it's my opinion. And so we allow 546 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:44.480 coaches in the companies that we work with to, like 547 00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:47.599 I said, you know, set the order of importance of nuances, 548 00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:51.640 what's the syllabus they want to teach to progressions and regressions, 549 00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:56.000 Like if you consistently see somebody doing a movement incorrectly, 550 00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:58.519 when would you regress and what would you regress too? 551 00:28:58.599 --> 00:29:00.799 Or when would you progress and what would you progress too? 552 00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:03.680 All the way down to what's the coaching language you 553 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:05.680 want to use? Like you know, everybody has a different 554 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:07.400 point of view on what the right cues are to 555 00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:10.720 use and how often to use them, And so we 556 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:13.720 give all of that control to the coaching team so 557 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:17.240 that you know, if you're using two products powered by 558 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:21.799 a sense you really shouldn't be seeing or hearing us. 559 00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:25.839 We're just in there powering the expression of the coach 560 00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:28.519 that you're training with. On that platform, a. 561 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.519 Lot of fitness startups and a lot of fitness tech 562 00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:36.039 just sort of gives you information. You go away and 563 00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:40.440 do what you can with it. But a sense I 564 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.400 seems to have a real focus on pedagogy and skill acquisition. 565 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.039 How does it actually teach? How does that actually work 566 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:50.160 in that sense? 567 00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:54.319 Yeah, let's let's use rawing as an example, because we 568 00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:58.720 cut our teeth on rowing for a good while indoor rowing. 569 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.759 Remember sitting down with a roar and asking the very 570 00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:05.680 naive question how important is technique and form and rowing? 571 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:08.000 And he's looked at me and used the line which 572 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:11.039 I still use to this day, that good form is 573 00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:15.039 free speed and that's really you know, form is everything 574 00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.640 and rowing and there's not much between your form and 575 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:22.200 your numbers. You know, it's not like you know, soccer 576 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:25.200 or rugby, where there's a team and there's weather and 577 00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:28.519 there's you know, the tactics. It's you know, are you 578 00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:31.799 a new exhibit good form? So let's use rowing as 579 00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:36.240 an example. A sense he understands movement as posture in 580 00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.400 time right. And so if you can picture yourself on 581 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:43.160 a concept to rowing machine or an indoor rowing machine, 582 00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:46.160 the first position that you would be coached into is 583 00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.960 the catch. So you're at the front of the rowing machine. 584 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:54.160 Your shins are vertical, your back's upright, you're

leaning slightly forward, 585 00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:56.799 your arms are outstretched at the handle, your knees aren't 586 00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:00.000 splayed out. So I would coach you into that position 587 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:01.880 if I was teaching you to row. And I'm not 588 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.200 a rowing coach, I just play one on podcasts, but 589 00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.480 I would, you know, I would coat you into that 590 00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:08.640 position and be like James, that's the catch. Here's a 591 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.400 couple of points. I wouldn't teach you everything. I'd teach 592 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.960 you a lowest common denominator and then something. But I 593 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.400 would get you into that position. So a sense can 594 00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:21.160 guide you into that position literally step by step. Say, 595 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.359 slide up to the front until your shins are vertical, 596 00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:27.000 and then when the camera sees that your shins are vertical, 597 00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:30.440 it'll move on to the next step. Good now, sit 598 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:33.799 up tall. Good now, stretch your arms out and reach 599 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:35.839 for the handle. And if you do it with your 600 00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:37.559 arms ben it will correct you. And if you do 601 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:39.480 it with your arms straight, it'll say good, and so 602 00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:42.799 we can coach you into that movement. We then might 603 00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:44.799 do the same at the back of the rowing stroke. 604 00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:46.920 We'll say, like, now this is the finished position. Your 605 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.839 legs are flat, you're back to this angle elbows down. 606 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:52.839 And so that's how a sense it can coach you 607 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:55.960 into postures. But then the next thing is and this 608 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:57.880 is why I like the rowing stroke as an example, 609 00:31:58.359 --> 00:32:01.440 the sequence of moving from one plus the kinematic sequence 610 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:05.279 of moving from the catch to the finish. It's obvious 611 00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:08.480 if you're sport minded. It's big muscle to small muscle. 612 00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:12.599 It's legs. First swing is a triple extension legs, flat swing, 613 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.960 the body pull the arms. Well, we can caught you through. 614 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:17.880 That's how I would caught you right. Or I might 615 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:20.680 even have a drill where we roll legs, only we 616 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:22.400 don't do the body swing in the arms. We just 617 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.759 practice pushing with the legs and sliding to the front 618 00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:26.400 and pushing with the leg and then we might do 619 00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:28.960 legs and body but no arms, and then we'll add 620 00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:33.680 legs body arms. Now I've taught you the drive sequence, 621 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.920 and then there's one more, the recovery which you know. 622 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:38.960 I'm not going to teach your listeners how to roll here, 623 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:40.839 but you can see how I can caught you into 624 00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:43.119 a position, I can catch you into another position, and 625 00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:46.799 then I can coach the coordination between positions. And we're 626 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:49.240 doing that with whole part whole coaching, where we'll show 627 00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:51.079 you the whole thing, we'll break it down into parts, 628 00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:53.480 we'll put the parts together again, and then we'll take 629 00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:55.720 the training wheels off. I'll give you a video that 630 00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:58.039 you can drop in the show notes that will see 631 00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:01.720 somebody getting coached a squat to press in this manner. 632 00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:05.200 So we can teach any exercise. So for beginners that 633 00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:08.319 are new to an at home fitness product, perhaps never 634 00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:11.599 strength trained before, we can teach them the repertoire that 635 00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:15.440 they need. And then also and this is the this 636 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.480 is the martial arts instructor. It was such a reward 637 00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:20.440 when an instructor would come up to you and say, 638 00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:23.000 you're doing really well. Now it's time to teach you 639 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.359 as spinning hookkick, or now it's time to like kick, 640 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:27.319 stop kicking at the body. Let's teach you how to 641 00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.160 kick to the head. So that reward of like unlocking 642 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:33.680 another exercise that's something we can do digitally as well. 643 00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:37.039 When we observe you know, basically, when you start getting 644 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.000 rid of the negative nuances and displaying the positive nuances, 645 00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:42.119 we can progress you to a new exercise, but teach 646 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:44.960 it to you first. So yeah, really it feels like 647 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:46.160 there's a coach in the room with you. 648 00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:51.119 Yeah, it sounds absolutely amazing if someone wants to use it. 649 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.519 Is it something that people can buy? 650 00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:57.599 No, we don't sell directly to consumer. Like our customers 651 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:01.759 are companies in the sport, fitness, the healthcare space, right, 652 00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:07.079 so you might almost name the customers in there, but 653 00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:10.280 you might, you know, go and be getting

physical therapy 654 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:14.079 for shoulder rehab and the company that's providing that digital 655 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.039 at home physical therapy for you is using our technology 656 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:19.000 to track your range of motion and coach you through 657 00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:21.800 the exercise. Or you might be working out on a 658 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:24.559 fitness product at home, and our technology is inside that 659 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:27.679 fitness product. If you look at the Essense website, a 660 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:31.400 Sense dot ai or Asense dot com, you'll see case 661 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:35.400 studies there and it's customers. Like we just announced Tonal 662 00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:39.159 the strength training machine, So you know, Tonal just announced 663 00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:42.280 that they're using us for through the emotion analysis. We've 664 00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:46.960 got Center, the company that Chris Hemsworth started, the Fitness Company, 665 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:50.039 and a number of other you know, equipment manufacturers like 666 00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.039 Vertomax and power Block and you know you'll see on 667 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:55.719 the website. So if you wanted to experience a sense, 668 00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:58.880 you would purchase or download one of our customers products 669 00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:01.000 and the So that's how you experience. 670 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:05.840 Okay, so you're you're the brain behind some other We. 671 00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:08.559 Call ourselves an ingredient technology. That the analogy I like 672 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:11.880 to use is probably every TV in your house or 673 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:16.719 soundbar ORNs has got Dolby Atmos in it, and Dolby 674 00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:19.320 is the same provider. We're like Dolby a bit for 675 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.079 human movement where the ingredient technology. 676 00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:25.400 Yeah, the next question I was going to ask is 677 00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:29.559 and you mentioned sports like rugby and soccer or football. 678 00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:35.079 For sports like rowing and golf and yoga and karate 679 00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:37.519 for example, they tend to have a lot of closed 680 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:41.840 skill aspects to them, where things like whether or an 681 00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:46.199 opponent isn't going to be interacting with a skill, but 682 00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:50.719 a sport like rugby where each time you go into 683 00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:54.199 a tackle, or in football, every time you receive the 684 00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:56.840 ball and pass the ball, it's going to be slightly different. 685 00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:00.519 There's going to be a bit of variation work in 686 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:04.840 sports like that, or is it more for perfecting the 687 00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:05.519 clouse skill? 688 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:10.360 Aspects of the way I think of it today is 689 00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:15.239 we add the most value in practice, not scrimmage, right, 690 00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:19.239 you know, scrimmage is where you're starting to practice tactics 691 00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:24.039 and strategy and interplay. And if I say agility, I 692 00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:26.360 mean like mental agility, like what just happened and how 693 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.760 are we going to react? How are we going to 694 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:30.519 position myself? What you're doing off the ball is as 695 00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:32.559 important as what you're doing on the ball. You're not 696 00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:34.639 really just tracking the personal on the ball, right, So 697 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:36.480 did he make that run into that space? Did he 698 00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:39.000 see that person make that runs the space? So I 699 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:41.360 think that, like there's a lot of other analytics. So 700 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:43.440 that's where you get into the worlds of a catapult 701 00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:48.360 and GPS tracking, and there's other technologies that I think 702 00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:52.920 are providing more useful information to the coaches and the players. 703 00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:57.800 I think our strength is much more in unsupervised practice, 704 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.360 where you're practicing unsupervised, but you want to have that 705 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:05.559 closed loop feedback or or maybe even just like like 706 00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:10.119 a simple example is even just like the laboriousness of 707 00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:13.800 logging sets and reps. You know you're a so you 708 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:18.199 are a rugby player, you are a soccer player. You're 709 00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:21.400 university in Michigan, and you know you're only allowed a 710 00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:23.360 certain number of hours with your coach, and so your 711 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:28.039 time in the strength room that's you yourself. You might 712 00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.000 have an iPad that you log into that tells you 713 00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:33.440 what your workout routine is. But who's logging the sets, 714 00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:36.000 who's logging the reps, who's tracking what weight that you used, 715 00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:39.880 who's spotting fatigue? Who's recognizing do you have any reps 716 00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:41.480 in reserve? Should I push you to do one more? 717 00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:44.519 Should I push you to do two more? So, even 718 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.079 for a team sport, like, there's a place for us 719 00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:48.840 in the strength room, there's a place for us in 720 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:51.199 return to play, there's a place for us in rehab. 721 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:53.880 And so that's kind of how I think about sport. 722 00:37:54.800 -->

00:37:57.599 I think less about can I analyze the game in 723 00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:02.079 real time? Although I will say and I can. I 724 00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:04.440 can imagine us being in this world in the future. 725 00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:08.920 You know, companies like Hawkeye are doing an increasingly good 726 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:11.920 job of not just picking out the players on the field, 727 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.079 but starting to pull out their skeletons. And so now 728 00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:17.119 if you've got that skeleton of that player, that can 729 00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:20.119 feed perfectly into a sense and you might run some 730 00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:24.360 analytics there like what were they doing? You know. A 731 00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:26.639 good example might be we've done a little bit of 732 00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:32.039 work in like tennis and pickleball and paddle where it's 733 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:36.360 more I want to identify analytics like how many times 734 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:40.000 was a serve returned with a forehand? And so you 735 00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:42.519 need a technology like us to recognize there as a serve, 736 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:45.159 recognized there was a forehand, and that those two events were, 737 00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:49.679 you know, between each other. So I can imagine us 738 00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:52.079 being in more of these sporting applications in the future, 739 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:56.719 but right now we're really just focused on strength and 740 00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:00.119 mobility is huge for us. Right now, it's just like 741 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:03.559 a big category and it's very fashionable. Right now. I 742 00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.159 think people are really cottoning on to the understanding that 743 00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:10.239 strength training is potentially more beneficial for you than cardival training. 744 00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:13.679 I mean, it's not either are, but more people are 745 00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.239 what's the word I'm looking for, less intimidated by the 746 00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:21.639 idea of strength training. So that's a huge category for us. 747 00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:23.880 And then increasingly we're doing a lot of work in 748 00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:28.079 healthcare and physical therapy and prehab and rehab applications. 749 00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:31.920 Yeah, I can imagine in that medical and the therapy, 750 00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:36.559 prehab rehab area it would be invaluable. One thing you 751 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:40.480 just mentioned before is you talked about an athlete in 752 00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:45.320 a strength program and having feedback in terms of one 753 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:48.079 more rep or you know, trying to motivate them. Is 754 00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:52.039 it something a sense I can also establish or coach 755 00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:58.199 apologies for savings to have but possibly

pick up if 756 00:39:58.239 --> 00:39:59.320 I've got one more rapid me. 757 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:04.679 Well, so there's a great So this is not us 758 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.480 that I'll point you to. I'll try and find it 759 00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.039 and you can put in the show notes. Our customer 760 00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:14.000 tonal they just published are really interesting. I think that's 761 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:17.360 why I through that example out there. They just published 762 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:22.280 a really interesting paper about using data that they already 763 00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:27.559 have off the machine, the cable to accurately predict reps 764 00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:29.639 and reserve. So I'll point you at that paper for 765 00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:32.360 people that really care about that stuff. But that's where 766 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:34.960 this kind of world of AI and sports science is 767 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:38.440 starting to collide. And you know, as I'm sure you know, 768 00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:42.719 for strength training, when you start getting specific about your goals, 769 00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:46.039 like you know, hypertrophy versus weight loss. That the number 770 00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:48.559 of target reps and how within that target you are 771 00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:51.480 becomes an indicator of not just how many reps you 772 00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:54.039 should be doing, but are you moving too much load 773 00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:58.079 or not enough load. So it's really interesting the kind 774 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:01.559 of things that we see, Like we see fatigue. I mean, 775 00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:05.480 what is fatigue. It's not like huffing and puffing. Fatigue 776 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:10.239 is the collapse of form. You know, you start to 777 00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:13.159 see or they're getting tired, they're dropping their hands, or 778 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.320 they're getting tired. They were doing three seconds down and 779 00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:18.679 one second up, and now it's like two seconds down 780 00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:23.559 and ten seconds and so like that movement and posture 781 00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:27.239 and timing and breakdown and form and you know, these 782 00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:30.440 are all indicators of things like fatigue, and that allows 783 00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:33.760 us to come in with encouragement, you know, just two more, 784 00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:37.239 one more, and you know, we did some really interesting 785 00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:41.559 consumer insights studies for some of our customers, and that's 786 00:41:41.559 --> 00:41:44.400 probably one of the most common and most satisfying pieces 787 00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:48.280 of feedback is I pushed. I feel like I pushed 788 00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:51.199 myself harder than I usually would because I felt accountable 789 00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.639 and I felt encouraged and so you know, we're definitely 790 00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:58.360 doing a good job replicating that feeling of like as 791 00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:02.559 soon as you know it's getting recorded for posteriti, you 792 00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:04.159 want to you want to do your best. 793 00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:09.000 Right, So just another question regarding technique and the coaching 794 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:16.440 or the coaching aspect of the technology in sports. Look, 795 00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:21.280 I might go back to karate as an example. When 796 00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:26.960 you're performing a type of punch in karate and you 797 00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:33.079 have different body sizes, body shapes, different biomechanics. If I 798 00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:39.880 perform a technique the same technique as you, and I 799 00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:43.920 perform it differently than you because of our body shape 800 00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:47.559 and the way I've potentially learned the skill, but I 801 00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:54.559 get good results from it. Does the equipment potentially try 802 00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:58.239 to change my technique? If you know, given given that 803 00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:03.079 I'm performing it in a way that it's proving successful 804 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:07.119 for me, but it's not I guess an orthodox type 805 00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:10.880 of movement compared to what you might do or the 806 00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:13.880 majority of people who are performing that movement might do, 807 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:18.519 would it try and improve my technique or change my technique, 808 00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:21.800 or would it say, look, this is what this this 809 00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:23.440 is the technique that works for you. So we're just 810 00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:25.000 going to try and you. 811 00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:29.159 Know, that would depend because we're an ingredient technology and 812 00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:32.320 we're providing the information, that would depend on our end 813 00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:35.599 customer's decision on how they wanted to treat that case. 814 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:38.679 But what I will say is, you know, going back 815 00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:41.079 to the idea of like the lowest common denominator of 816 00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:44.719 a movement and the nuances of a movement that accommodates 817 00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:49.000 that two athletes, and I like the Nike definition of athlete, 818 00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:50.679 If you have a body, you're an athlete. So two 819 00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:56.480 athletes might perform the same movement differently. Again, I'll use 820 00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:59.440 a squad as an example. Like, you know, a powerlifter 821 00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.239 is going to have much greater depth and flexibility at 822 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:05.920 the bottom of a squad than someone who's doing rehab 823 00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:10.119 after you

know, heart surgery, and so you're not trying 824 00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:12.320 to hold them to the same standard, but you are 825 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:17.519 trying to assess again, did they faithfully attempt to do 826 00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:21.920 the thing? And the nuances tell us how well they 827 00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:25.239 did it or to what quality they did it, And 828 00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:30.960 so that would allow you to, for instance, say yeah, 829 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:33.159 I'll go to you know, is a good example in 830 00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:35.320 a you know, when you're throwing a reverse punch, so 831 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.679 you're kind of reaching with your backhand throwing a reverse punch. 832 00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:41.760 Most stars of crackit will encourage you to have your 833 00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:44.000 heel on the ground at the end point of the 834 00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:47.639 punch the way I teach, you're on the ball of 835 00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:50.159 your foot, Like, why would you waste that power? Why 836 00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:51.920 would you not get the rotation? Why would you not 837 00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:55.440 get the drive? You're now going to have like a 838 00:44:55.480 --> 00:45:00.719 million YouTube comments telling me I'm wrong, but I'm so. 839 00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:04.360 You know, I might choose with a nuance to flag 840 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:06.599 whether the foot was on the floor or whether the 841 00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:09.239 heel was off the ground, and it would be up 842 00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:13.039 to the platform provider to decide are we a short 843 00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:15.280 or kan karate app that's going to make sure that 844 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:17.480 heel is pinned to the floor, or are we a 845 00:45:18.079 --> 00:45:19.800 karate app and we're going to make sure you're on 846 00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:22.840 the ball of the foot, And we provide the data 847 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:25.039 and we allow the coach to determine what to do 848 00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:25.239 with it. 849 00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:29.039 Right, So there is that ability for people who are 850 00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:33.360 using that technology to go in and indicate what it 851 00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:36.760 is exactly that they want to say and. 852 00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:37.760 Exactly, yeah, exactly. 853 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:40.119 I guess being someone who's not in the tech industry, 854 00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:44.320 I'm I'm constantly coming to terms with the ability of 855 00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:47.320 this equipment, and it just seems it just seems amazing, 856 00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:52.760 and I'm hoping that it doesn't mean that the coach 857 00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:56.760 as a person is slightly pushing the side for you know. 858 00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:58.840 So I'll tell you a funny story. When I've first 859 00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:03.079 started the company and I was trying to figure out, 860 00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:07.400 like we wanted to pick a sport that wasn't our 861 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.480 own sport, because when you pick your own sport, you 862 00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:11.960 feel like you bring a lot of bias to how 863 00:46:11.960 --> 00:46:14.960 it should be coached, and so I needed to have 864 00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:17.400 that beginner's mind. Again, I've done a lot of coaching, 865 00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:19.480 and I hadn't been coached for a while, so I 866 00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:22.960 picked some sports. I was taking plates classes, I was 867 00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:26.559 taking yoga classes, I was rowing because I wanted to 868 00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:29.599 be coached, and then I Ransom. We zeroed in on 869 00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:32.360 rowing as like, this is a good place for us 870 00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:35.079 to start because not only is that a closed loop 871 00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:37.880 movement and the form was important, but there's a number 872 00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:39.320 on the screen in front of you that tells you 873 00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:42.039 how well you're doing it, So like we're not just 874 00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:45.320 esthetically improving your form, We're trying to get more watts 875 00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:47.639 per straw can drop your two K time from eight 876 00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:52.079 minutes to sub seven and so you know. Anyway, so 877 00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:55.760 I run this rowing workshop at Sarah High School in California. 878 00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:59.280 That's Tom Brady's old high school. And so I get 879 00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:01.280 introduced to this at a rowing club and it's all 880 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:04.119 these kind of I guess, like fourteen year old kids, 881 00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:08.519 and one kid refused to participate because he didn't want 882 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:11.079 to be anything to do with robots taking over the world, 883 00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:13.960 and he got a pass and an exemption from the workshop. 884 00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:17.360 And I tell that story, and I remember that story 885 00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:20.760 like twelve years on because it was like, as a 886 00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:23.760 you know, as a Adobe I became very involved in 887 00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:27.400 design and design thinking, and as a design thinker something 888 00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:30.840 that's really important is ethnography and anthropology. It's like just 889 00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:35.039 observing human behavior, and it stuck with me. It's like, 890 00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:37.320 wait a minute, I never thought about it. I'm such 891 00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.920 an optimist about technology. I you know, I generally approach 892 00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:44.480 life as technology is just unlocks her potential, it doesn't 893 00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:47.679 replace it. So I was kind of holding that bias, 894 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:50.039 and then hearing

that kid say that, I'm like, shoot, 895 00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:52.159 there's people who are going to be threatened by this, 896 00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:54.719 and the people who are going to be threatened are 897 00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:56.719 the people I care about most. It's the coaches. They're 898 00:47:56.719 --> 00:47:59.320 going to feel like they're being replaced. So that one 899 00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:01.639 kid instead of at high school was probably like, you know, 900 00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:07.519 twenty five. Now I have him to thank for immediately 901 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:10.440 realizing that we need to make sure coaches understand that 902 00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:14.679 we're celebrating them, we're not replacing them, and we're allowing 903 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:17.400 them to do something at digital scale the way so 904 00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:19.519 many of the rest of us were already in the 905 00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:21.840 industries we were in, Like the Internet allowed us to 906 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.599 reach more people and teach more people. And the last 907 00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:28.039 thing I ad is, you know, many of our use 908 00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:31.519 cases we call them the super coach where you know, 909 00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:34.599 we've got one customer who has I'm going to say 910 00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:39.880 like thirty franchises around the US where you can go 911 00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:42.960 in and work with essentially work with a pt but 912 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.280 you know they're stretching your assisted stretching, and they're they're 913 00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:49.000 they're kind of like looking at your balance and mobility 914 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:52.400 and stability and kind of stretching you. And day one, 915 00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:54.840 you walk into that studio, you stand in front of 916 00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:58.639 a tablet, the coach takes you through an active movement prep, 917 00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:02.239 but the tablet powered by a sense he is watching 918 00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:06.159 that movement prep and identifying, you know, measuring end range 919 00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:10.239 of motion, measuring balance, measuring stability, looking at strength. But 920 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:13.639 instead of us giving that information to the customer, we 921 00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:15.679 give that information to the coach. And so the coach 922 00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:18.239 then looks at the tablet and they have a series 923 00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:22.119 of recommendations of we saw that Stephen has poor shoulder mobility, 924 00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:24.519 you should probably add in these exercises and do this, 925 00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.039 and so we're making the coach better. Another example of 926 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.719 a super coach like imagine you're in a studio teaching 927 00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:34.639 rowing classes and it's dark and the lights are going 928 00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:37.920 and there's fifty people rowing, but then all of a sudden, 929 00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:41.480 there's a notification on your Apple watching Jane's on erg 930 00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:45.480 number fifty seven is pulling with his arms and not 931 00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:47.679 pushing with his legs. And now the coach knows to 932 00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:51.199 walk up and like correct that person's technique with the 933 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.719 right correction. So we've made the coach look better rather 934 00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:57.320 than replace them with technology. So no, we're not here 935 00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:59.760 in the business of putting coaches out of the business. 936 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:03.440 No, that sounds that's a really good positive answer, and 937 00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:08.280 funny enough, my last interview was around coach mental health 938 00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:10.519 and coach well being, and one of the things that 939 00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:12.920 was brought up was the fact that coaches are just 940 00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:17.679 constantly working ridiculous hours to try and make the needs 941 00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:20.599 of their athletes. And I mean, what you're essentially doing 942 00:50:20.679 --> 00:50:27.920 is you're potentially helping coaches deliver more, more and more, 943 00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:32.480 you know outside. So basically you'll give you them more 944 00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:35.559 opportunities to coach without adding to their workload. 945 00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:38.039 I'll give you another good example. So one of our 946 00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:42.360 customers is in We called our customer the industrial athlete. 947 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:46.519 So eighty percent of the global workforce is deskless and 948 00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:49.239 in a physically demanding job. It's the factory floor worker, 949 00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:52.960 it's the fed Ex driver, okay, And so a lot 950 00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:56.679 of our customers there's like one athletic trino and maybe 951 00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:59.760 five hundred employees. Like, you can't movement screen five hundred 952 00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:01.400 player is in a year. You can't get around them 953 00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:05.320 in a year. But now with our technology integrated into 954 00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:09.239 their product on higher people go through this movement assessment 955 00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:12.559 and it allows you to kind of stratify your population 956 00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:16.400 and identify not who's next, but who's most at risk, 957 00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:18.199 How do we put them in a job that they're 958 00:51:18.199 --> 00:51:21.159 physically capable of doing. How do we give them preemptive 959 00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:24.199 mobility that's going to keep them injury free? And how 960 00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:26.960 do we identify the at risk population and make sure 961

00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:29.519 the PT is working with them and not working with 962 00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:32.840 the nine out of ten people that don't need the PT. 963 00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:36.000 And so you can only imagine, you know, is taking 964 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:39.800 the load off the PT or the athletic trainer, and 965 00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:42.400 it's making sure that you're optimizing the health of the 966 00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:45.239 workforce by focusing on the most at risk population. So, yeah, 967 00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:49.920 I'm an optimist about the opportunities for these kinds of technologies. 968 00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:53.960 Now you've said that Sins it is about democratizing Hugene, 969 00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:57.679 what does that mean in the sense of what you're 970 00:51:57.679 --> 00:51:58.199 trying to do? 971 00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:03.960 Well? You know, one of the great things about coaching 972 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:07.719 at Edinburgh University was I could call any martial arts 973 00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:10.360 instructure in the world and invite them to Edinburgh for 974 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:12.519 a weekend, and if I promised them a place to sleep, 975 00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:15.559 a meal, probably a whisky tour, I could get them 976 00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:17.559 on the mat for a weekend teaching and I could 977 00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:19.400 learn with them and I might you know, arrange a 978 00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:21.360 few other seminars for them at other clubs, and I 979 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.599 would follow them around. And so in my martial arts career, 980 00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:27.239 I really got to work with the best instructors in 981 00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:28.599 the world. It's like, I want to work with that 982 00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:31.599 person on this and learn this from that person just 983 00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:35.119 by hosting them. So I think that's where the idea 984 00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:37.519 came from. Really, is like, you know, what if everybody 985 00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:41.000 had that, not everybody's at Enmory University and can have 986 00:52:41.239 --> 00:52:44.599 those coaches flying in and so that's really the opportunity 987 00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:47.440 we see is like we've created this platform that allows, 988 00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:52.400 you know, anyone that coaches a particular modality to do 989 00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:54.320 it in a much more effective way than a book 990 00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:56.239 or a video. It's like, you know, we can literally 991 00:52:56.280 --> 00:52:59.920 put their voice in your ear and you know, clone 992 00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:03.159 or knowledge if you like. That sends a little sci fi, 993 00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:06.679 but we can take their knowledge and expertise and how 994 00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:09.039 they would teach and capture it in a way so 995 00:53:09.079 --> 00:53:13.480 that the sense is essentially animating

them when they're not there. 996 00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:16.119 And so that's what I mean by democratizing access to 997 00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:18.039 world class coaching. It's like, if you know, if I 998 00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:20.639 want to, you know, I grew up as a kid 999 00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:22.880 like I wish Bruce Lee could have coached me martial arts. 1000 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:25.159 I wish when Gretzky could have coached me my slapshot 1001 00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:28.920 and and you know that's that's if we succeed at scale, 1002 00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:30.360 that's what we'll live unlocked. 1003 00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:34.039 Yeah. Great, So does that mean you need to get 1004 00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:37.760 the input from you know, high coaches around the world. 1005 00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:41.599 So for example, I'm in Australia and I'm wanting to 1006 00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:44.599 learn karate. Can I just get you as as my coach? 1007 00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:49.000 Well again, you know, you know, our our part in 1008 00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:52.280 the mission is to make sure that as many digital 1009 00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:56.519 fitness or sport or healthcare products understand what's possible with 1010 00:53:56.559 --> 00:54:01.480 the Sensey and integrate us into their products and they 1011 00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:05.119 make the coaches on their platform and deliver this kind 1012 00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:07.599 of experience. So you know, we're not doing the last 1013 00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:09.800 mile if you like, you know, we're not going all 1014 00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:12.159 the way to the coach. But you know, I can 1015 00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:15.159 assure you the customers that we're pitching and selling to 1016 00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:17.760 our customers who have some of the best coaches in 1017 00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:20.360 the world on their platforms, and we're like, your platform 1018 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:22.880 needs to be powered by us, so that that coach 1019 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:24.679 isn't just the stage on the stage, you know, the 1020 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:27.360 person on the video screen just look at me and 1021 00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:32.000 follow along. Let's turn them into an intelligent, interactive version 1022 00:54:32.039 --> 00:54:35.360 of them digital version of themselves. And so that's our 1023 00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:37.920 part in the mission is to help as many companies 1024 00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:39.480 integrate our technology as possible. 1025 00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:43.000 Okay, So if I decided that I wanted to design 1026 00:54:43.159 --> 00:54:47.119 a rugby goal kicking app, and I wanted to integrate 1027 00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:50.760 a Sensei technology into that, and then I went to 1028 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:55.440 you know, guys like Johnny Wilkinson and Dan Carter and 1029 00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:59.280 Gavin Heistings and all these right right, I'd had to 1030 00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:05.440 turn a Scottish. I could go to some of these 1031 00:55:05.559 --> 00:55:09.360 people and get them to give give their thoughts and 1032 00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:12.760 and and and and then from that could I potentially 1033 00:55:13.400 --> 00:55:16.519 sell my app saying well, learn from Johnny Wilkinson and 1034 00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:21.159 learn from the and and then the using your phone 1035 00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:23.760 on setting your phone on the ground, I go and 1036 00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:25.559 do a goal kick. And then I've got Johnny Wilkinson 1037 00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:32.639 saying hold your hands agether like put your your you know, 1038 00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:35.400 left foot close to the ball before you contact you 1039 00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:36.840 did that those sorts of things. Is that the sort 1040 00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:38.199 of capabilities. 1041 00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:39.719 That I mean, you've hit the nail on the head. 1042 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:42.079 If if you decided that you wanted to build that app, 1043 00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:44.360 and if you had the ability to convince those guys 1044 00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:47.199 to come onto your platform, that is exactly how you 1045 00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:50.639 would use our technology. And we've got customers where like 1046 00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:54.159 you you know, you know the coach, you know the athlete, 1047 00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:56.480 and we can clone their voice and put them in 1048 00:55:56.519 --> 00:55:59.920 your ear and so yeah, that's exactly that's that's the 1049 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:03.239 world we live in. And today you were very focused 1050 00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:06.519 on working with the big brands that already have you know, 1051 00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:10.320 distribution and reach. But there will be a point in 1052 00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:13.280 the future, and not in the distant future, where we'll 1053 00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:16.320 make it even easier for that individual application developer to 1054 00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:18.239 you know, someone that can just build their own app 1055 00:56:18.280 --> 00:56:20.559 and stick out in the app store. At some point, 1056 00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:23.159 you know, it'll be much easier for them to just 1057 00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:25.880 download the sensory and integrate into their product as well. 1058 00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:28.760 But today we're not really focused on the individual developer. 1059 00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:31.400 We're focused more on the bigger organizations that have you know, 1060 00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:35.159 hundreds and thousands of customers because we want to we 1061 00:56:35.239 --> 00:56:38.000 want to impact as many people as possible with this technology. 1062 00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:40.599 Yeah, amazing, So I want to move into that. Now, 1063 00:56:40.599 --> 00:56:44.119 your partnerships and where where you're impacting. What are some 1064 00:56:44.159 -->

00:56:46.719 of the big fitness companies that you've you've worked with. 1065 00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:49.239 Can you give us some examples of some of those 1066 00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:53.559 companies and potentially how they're using us insight in their technology. 1067 00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:57.119 Yeah, I'll probably be a little light on the how 1068 00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:00.000 because they don't want me talking about what they're develop 1069 00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:04.000 oupring or bringing to market necessarily, but yeah, in the 1070 00:57:04.039 --> 00:57:07.239 fitness space and with some of the bigger brands that 1071 00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:10.199 we can talk about that your listeners will have heard about. 1072 00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:13.920 You know, I mentioned Tonal earlier. We just announced in 1073 00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:16.519 the last week. We just announced that Tonal are working 1074 00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:20.000 with us. So that's a piece of strength training equipment. 1075 00:57:20.039 --> 00:57:22.559 They kind of created this digital strength category where they're 1076 00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:25.800 using electromagnetic resistance in the cable. You can pull two 1077 00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:29.320 hundred and fifty pounds and you know, just phenomenal piece 1078 00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:32.639 of equipment. And you know, we can't say much more 1079 00:57:32.679 --> 00:57:35.320 than that, but you know, there were working with those 1080 00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:41.039 guys Center Chris Hemsworth's company or it was Chris Hemsworth's company. 1081 00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:46.000 Very very typical of the kind of customer that we 1082 00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:48.039 work with. It's a workout app. There's a bunch of 1083 00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:50.960 that's a great example. There's a you know Chrissy's trainers 1084 00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:53.559 or on the app and you know you can kind 1085 00:57:53.599 --> 00:57:56.400 of work out with those guys. So again, I can't 1086 00:57:56.440 --> 00:57:58.239 say too much about what Center have done with us, 1087 00:57:58.280 --> 00:58:02.800 but you know, if we've been listening, you'll have some 1088 00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:07.360 idea and then other like new entrant connected fitness companies. 1089 00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:09.760 People know that there's lots of companies who are the 1090 00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:13.800 peloton of So one of our customers alter have a 1091 00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:15.760 fitness mirror and you're standing in front of a mirror 1092 00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:17.920 and seeing yourself and a reflections of it. It's like 1093 00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:22.159 the instructors in the mirror with you. You know, they 1094 00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:25.719 use us for you know, their customer is typically more 1095 00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:28.639 of a you know, someone that might be on a 1096 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:32.000 weight loss journey, someone that doesn't exercise as much, but 1097 00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:34.519 they understand the importance of strength training. And so we're 1098 00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:36.760 tracking their reps and we're giving them targets to hit, 1099 00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:39.559 and we're giving them farm feedback on the mirror. Really 1100 00:58:39.559 --> 00:58:44.599 cool products. There's a company called Bouts. They call themselves 1101 00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:46.639 the Boxing Bag with the Brain, So they have a 1102 00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:49.599 camera mounted on top of the boxing bag, they have 1103 00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:52.039 sensors in the bag that are tracking things like impact 1104 00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:54.760 and strike zones, but with the sense that they can 1105 00:58:54.800 --> 00:58:56.559 also you know, was that hook, was at jab, was 1106 00:58:56.599 --> 00:58:58.440 at an upper cut, was at knee, was at an elbow. 1107 00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:02.559 And they're they're actually a brick and mortar concept as 1108 00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:05.760 well as an at home concept. So they're launching their 1109 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:09.719 franchising and opening studios in Europe and just announced in 1110 00:59:09.760 --> 00:59:13.480 the US where there's like, you know, twelve twenty people 1111 00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:16.480 in a room all hitting these bags, and it's a 1112 00:59:16.599 --> 00:59:19.800 very gamified fitness experience, you know, leader boards and scoreboards. 1113 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:24.039 So that's kind of on the fitness side. I mentioned, 1114 00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:26.599 you know, industrial health, and so we've got customers like 1115 00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:29.480 amp Health, where it's much more about kind of worker 1116 00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:34.079 safety and movement screening and return to work protocols for rehabilitation. 1117 00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:38.880 We're increasingly I'm not going to mention so many company 1118 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:41.000 names yet, but by the time the show is out, 1119 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:46.119 they'll be out there. But in healthcare, so MSK Musculo 1120 00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:51.039 SCOO Letal injury, So one of the large US MSK 1121 00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:56.480 virtual physical therapy providers is recently powered and recently launched 1122 00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:59.559 with the Sensei. So as you're doing your physical therapy. 1123 00:59:59.599 --> 01:00:02.480 We're a kind of like watching and tracking, and you 1124 01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:06.719 know that's good for the consumer. It's like I want 1125 01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:08.639 to make sure I'm doing this correctly, that I'm getting 1126 01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:11.000 recognition for doing it. But it's also good for the 1127 01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:13.360 PT and it's good for the insurer, like is their 1128 01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:15.800 adherence or people doing the PT that they're given and 1129 01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:20.199 are they doing it correctly? Other

healthcare customers. We have 1130 01:00:20.239 --> 01:00:24.920 one company called Neurophoenix, who are a neurological rehab company. 1131 01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:29.199 So it's rehab protocols for stroke patients to recover more control. 1132 01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:33.239 So we're really proud of that one. You know, their 1133 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:35.960 patients are going to be powered by a sense And 1134 01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:40.119 I think tomorrow we're announcing a company that's in the 1135 01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:43.199 world of osteoporosis. You know, you know, one in three 1136 01:00:43.239 --> 01:00:46.159 women over the age of fifty will suffer a fracture 1137 01:00:46.239 --> 01:00:52.000 due to bone density, and so they have both rehab 1138 01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.800 but also prehab programs that have been shown to improve 1139 01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:59.559 bone density. It's kind of strength and yoga type protocols 1140 01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:02.639 and they're working with us and so you know that's 1141 01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:05.239 kind of the whole healthcare category. And then we've got 1142 01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:10.880 equipment providers. You know, legacy equipment power block we can 1143 01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:14.239 track you know what weight you're using, and so anybody 1144 01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:17.440 that's integrating power blocks into their product, we can feasibly 1145 01:01:17.480 --> 01:01:20.280 at track the weight. And if you're familiar with vertemax, 1146 01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:22.800 they're quite popular in the US where jump sports are 1147 01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:26.679 super popular, right, but vertemax is a kind of cable 1148 01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:30.519 platform to provide resistance during vertical jumping. And with the 1149 01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:33.760 sense now a high school kid with a phone can 1150 01:01:33.800 --> 01:01:36.440 be coached to do a countermeasure jump correctly, and we 1151 01:01:36.440 --> 01:01:39.400 can measure their vertical their center a mass, or their 1152 01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:42.599 highest point or their lowest point. So yeah, it's a 1153 01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:44.920 good smattering of customers there. 1154 01:01:45.159 --> 01:01:48.039 You really look like holistically, you cover the whole brind 1155 01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:51.679 of things from health care, rehab, prehab all the way 1156 01:01:51.679 --> 01:01:55.039 through to you know, alight level athletes and people in 1157 01:01:55.079 --> 01:01:57.760 between who are looking to become healthy and lose white 1158 01:01:57.800 --> 01:01:59.840 now sorts of things. When you mentioned a couple of 1159 01:02:00.280 --> 01:02:03.320 companies or a couple of the examples, maybe think of 1160 01:02:03.360 --> 01:02:06.039 that period during COVID when a lot of those things 1161 01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:10.119 came out because people were isolating at home and per 1162 01:02:10.119 --> 01:02:12.039 forming their own workouts in front of mirrors and stuff 1163 01:02:12.079 --> 01:02:15.280 like that. Yeah, that was that like a big period 1164 01:02:15.320 --> 01:02:19.159 for you guys in growth or not. 1165 01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:22.239 So much in growth, but it was. It was a 1166 01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:25.239 Burnbridge's moment for sure, or burning the boat's moment, sorry, 1167 01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:30.280 for sure. What I mean by that is we always 1168 01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:33.159 intended to be this B to B company, business to business. 1169 01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:35.760 It was always our intention that we would be a 1170 01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:38.800 software development kit that others would use to code in 1171 01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:44.039 our capabilities into their applications. But I mean even today 1172 01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:47.599 you're sitting on this interview and you're like, even though 1173 01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:50.079 this was possible, and so that was kind of our 1174 01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:54.679 cold start problem, right, Like we we in this classical 1175 01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:58.639 entrepreneur you see the future before everybody else, and then 1176 01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:00.719 you have this panic that now that you've seen it, 1177 01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:02.599 everyone else is going to see it as well. Right, 1178 01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:04.800 So we had to show the world what the future 1179 01:03:04.840 --> 01:03:06.960 looked like. And that's why we picked indoor rowing as 1180 01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:09.480 a sport that we could start to do two things. One, 1181 01:03:10.360 --> 01:03:12.920 be really tight with the consumer and really get a 1182 01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:15.719 deep understanding of what they wanted and what they didn't want. 1183 01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:18.800 And even though we focused on indoor rowing, you know, 1184 01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:22.519 we were teaching growing technique. We were giving them strength training, programs, 1185 01:03:22.639 --> 01:03:25.639 mobility programs, movement assessments. You know, it's like, what's the 1186 01:03:25.760 --> 01:03:29.760 ecosystem of experiences we can deliver that rowers will eat 1187 01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:34.760 up and pay money for. And so when COVID happened, 1188 01:03:35.320 --> 01:03:38.000 we weren't quite right. We weren't. We thought we had 1189 01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:40.880 another step to go, probably another twelve eighteen months of 1190 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:44.360 customer discovery and showing people what the future looked like. 1191 01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:49.360 And then I remember, I go back to it often. 1192 01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:53.159 I wrote a strategy memo for the board when COVID happened, 1193 01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:55.639 and it was basically, the time is now, like we 1194 01:03:55.679 --> 01:03:57.920 have to go and now people are going to work 1195 01:03:57.960 --> 01:04:01.280 out at home. You know, PT is going to be 1196

01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:02.800 shut down and people are going to have to do 1197 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:04.920 that at home. And you know this is going to 1198 01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:08.679 be one of those shifts that we don't come back from. 1199 01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:12.679 You know, once people have tasted the convenience of virtual 1200 01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:15.280 PT or tasted the convenience of being able to be 1201 01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:18.519 coaching worked out at home. I was never of the 1202 01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:20.519 opinion that no one will go back to the gym again, 1203 01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:22.599 but it will become an end not an R and 1204 01:04:22.719 --> 01:04:26.320 you know it will be both. And so yeah, twenty 1205 01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:29.039 twenty we were like, let's go for it. Let's It 1206 01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:34.239 was definitely a and we just intensely pivoted is the 1207 01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:37.119 wrong word, but leaned into like, now, all we're doing 1208 01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:39.679 is building an SDK for other people to use, and 1209 01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:41.320 we're going to go out and sell that. And so 1210 01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:42.960 it was an intense. 1211 01:04:42.679 --> 01:04:47.000 Time awesome, awesome. So what's next for us, insight? Are 1212 01:04:47.039 --> 01:04:50.360 you expanding into new sports, into other areas of rehab 1213 01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:53.519 education or any other fields. 1214 01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:58.719 So we I say this with a degree of humility, 1215 01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:01.159 I think the connected fitness market is ours to lose 1216 01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:04.960 at this point. We have we're in the consideration set 1217 01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:07.960 or the only consideration for connected fitness companies or digital 1218 01:05:07.960 --> 01:05:10.360 fitness companies that you would be insane to try and 1219 01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:12.440 build this stuff yourself at this point when you can 1220 01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:15.039 buy it, you don't build a car, and you know, 1221 01:05:15.119 --> 01:05:18.440 create your own speech recognition team so you can turn 1222 01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:21.320 the wipers on on on the that board. So connect 1223 01:05:21.320 --> 01:05:24.360 the fitness, you know, we're gonna you know, really focus 1224 01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:28.239 on just making sure we're serving that category and serving 1225 01:05:28.280 --> 01:05:32.719 that category well connected healthcare, so you know, all the 1226 01:05:32.800 --> 01:05:35.840 kind of healthcare example, it's a huge focus for us 1227 01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:39.199 this year is and you know, if you follow the 1228 01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:42.039 healthcare market closely, there's been a couple of like really 1229 01:05:42.039 --> 01:05:46.880 successful big pos o Mada Health and Hinge Health, and 1230 01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:50.159 then there's like very well capitalized swort Health, and

they've 1231 01:05:50.199 --> 01:05:55.199 all shown the industry that at home virtual physical therapy 1232 01:05:55.239 --> 01:05:58.400 with computer vision is I must have. And so now 1233 01:05:58.440 --> 01:05:59.920 the rest of the charger is like, well, how do 1234 01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:02.840 we catch up with the companies that iPod and funded, 1235 01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:05.719 And so we feel that that's a huge opportunity for us. 1236 01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:10.000 And then you know, topic for another podcast probably, But 1237 01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:12.159 I have a strong point of view that the lessons 1238 01:06:12.199 --> 01:06:15.719 learned and digital fitness should be applied to digital healthcare. 1239 01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:20.159 Like my kind of my tagline right now is digital 1240 01:06:20.199 --> 01:06:22.599 health should not be sterile. It shouldn't be this like 1241 01:06:22.719 --> 01:06:27.239 clinical environment. Everything we've learned in fitness to acquire and 1242 01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:33.880 engage and excite and educate and retain people's attention will 1243 01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:36.559 allow us to kind of get more people through their 1244 01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:41.119 pet make them with here, shorten their recovery times, reduce 1245 01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:43.559 their cost of care. So healthcare is a huge market 1246 01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:47.440 for us. And then also brick and mortar, like increasingly, 1247 01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:50.880 you know, if you're paying two hundred bucks, two hundred 1248 01:06:50.920 --> 01:06:52.880 bucks for your gym, and the equipment in your gym 1249 01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:54.719 is not as good as the equipment and your garage. 1250 01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:57.679 Are you going to go to the gym? And so 1251 01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:01.480 consumer expectations are starting to change for what kind of 1252 01:07:01.559 --> 01:07:04.480 experiences they want to have in their studios or their boutiques. 1253 01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:06.719 And why do I have a toneal on my wall 1254 01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:08.679 in my garage? But I go to my PT and 1255 01:07:08.719 --> 01:07:11.519 I'm paying you know, two grand a month on my insurance. 1256 01:07:11.559 --> 01:07:13.199 I wish I was paying only two grand a month, 1257 01:07:13.239 --> 01:07:15.360 but I'm paying two grand a month on my insurance. 1258 01:07:15.400 --> 01:07:18.199 And you know the PTS using rubber bands and Swiss balls. Yeah, 1259 01:07:18.199 --> 01:07:21.320 I've got this, you know, impeccably fine tuned strength training 1260 01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:24.199 machine on my walle at home. So we see brick 1261 01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:28.719 and mortar. But I'll leave you with what's next for 1262 01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:31.920 a SENSI from a platform perspective. You know, the big 1263 01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:34.519 buzzword right now is general to AI. You know, we're 1264 01:07:34.599 --> 01:07:36.760 using things like chat, GPT and you know it can 1265 01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:40.679 you know, we can converse, and so we've been doing 1266 01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:45.000 a lot of work over the last twelve months so 1267 01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:47.119 that we're not just having the coach speak at you, 1268 01:07:47.400 --> 01:07:50.519 but you can speak with the coach, and so you'll 1269 01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:53.719 be able to converse with bach. So it'll be I'll 1270 01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:56.880 use your Johnny Wilkinson example. Johnny is not customer, but 1271 01:07:56.920 --> 01:07:59.880 he's welcome to reach out. But you know, you might 1272 01:07:59.880 --> 01:08:03.559 be practicing your drop kicks with Johnny Wilkinson and now 1273 01:08:03.639 --> 01:08:05.119 you can say things that you would have said to 1274 01:08:05.119 --> 01:08:07.400 your coach. It's like he Johnny, I am I doing 1275 01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:09.599 this right? Or could you explain that to me again? 1276 01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:12.239 Or could you know when I do this? It feels 1277 01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:14.360 like that could you watch me? And so that ability 1278 01:08:14.360 --> 01:08:19.479 to converse and then have Johnny Wilkinson reply. But you 1279 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:21.760 also want to solve the problem of like Johnny Wilkinson 1280 01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:23.520 is not going to start teaching you as result or 1281 01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:27.119 recipe right, you don't want to, and you want to 1282 01:08:27.199 --> 01:08:30.000 keep the way in AI. We talk about guardrails. You 1283 01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:35.720 want to keep the AI within some guardrails and only 1284 01:08:36.439 --> 01:08:39.199 you know converse on topics it's intelligent about and not 1285 01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:42.199 start hallucinating is literally the word that we use in 1286 01:08:42.199 --> 01:08:45.800 the I. It doesn't start hallucinating. And so yeah, I 1287 01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:49.239 mean if you take this unique rich real time context 1288 01:08:49.279 --> 01:08:51.840 that a sense he has about human movement, If you 1289 01:08:51.880 --> 01:08:55.479 take our ability to clone digital voices through partners and 1290 01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:59.439 deliver digital clones of those voices, and now we can 1291 01:08:59.439 --> 01:09:01.880 allow you to verse back and forth with them. That 1292 01:09:02.119 --> 01:09:05.039 future I wanted of Wing Gretzky teaching me to slapshot 1293 01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:08.880 or Bristly standing in my garage coaching me in this 1294 01:09:09.039 --> 01:09:11.359 year we put the final pieces in place that allow 1295 01:09:11.359 --> 01:09:15.000 anybody to deliver that and I am like beyond excited 1296 01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:15.439 about that. 1297 01:09:16.159 --> 01:09:19.439 Sounds sounds amazing. I was gonna ask the question, has 1298 01:09:19.439 --> 01:09:22.520 it got the ability to to as the athlete or 1299 01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:27.520 as the the person

being coached, to talk back to, 1300 01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:30.319 you know, to get feedback. Can I get specific feedback 1301 01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.840 on you know, my elbow position or whatever it might be, 1302 01:09:34.720 --> 01:09:36.800 And that you've just answered that question, So that sounds 1303 01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:41.239 like an amazing sort of stem. Yeah, And just before 1304 01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:44.239 we finish, what do you hope a Sensa's legacy will 1305 01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:47.319 be within the fitness, sport and tech industries. 1306 01:09:48.159 --> 01:09:50.079 In the same way that you walk into a store 1307 01:09:50.079 --> 01:09:52.119 and you buy a TV and it's all the outmost 1308 01:09:52.159 --> 01:09:56.159 badge on the box and you don't know anything about 1309 01:09:56.159 --> 01:10:02.000 seven point one channel surround sound or HDU my arc 1310 01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:04.319 are like, you have no idea about that stuff. But 1311 01:10:04.359 --> 01:10:06.479 faced with a buying decision where there's one TV with 1312 01:10:06.520 --> 01:10:09.039 Dolby Atmos and there's one without, you buy the Dolbie 1313 01:10:09.039 --> 01:10:12.720 one every single time because that brand, that mark stands 1314 01:10:12.760 --> 01:10:15.119 for something like you know that you're going to have 1315 01:10:15.239 --> 01:10:18.840 the best sounding audio on the planet if you have 1316 01:10:18.960 --> 01:10:22.319 Dolby in your product, and that influences your purchase decision 1317 01:10:22.359 --> 01:10:25.199 of your TV. It might even influence your purchase decision 1318 01:10:25.239 --> 01:10:29.159 of your car and you know the speakers or what 1319 01:10:29.479 --> 01:10:32.600 you want in your car. So yeah, that's the bar 1320 01:10:33.479 --> 01:10:37.199 I've set for us at a Sensi is that, you know, 1321 01:10:37.359 --> 01:10:40.119 face with the buying decision of don't want to buy 1322 01:10:40.119 --> 01:10:42.079 this strength training machine or don't want to buy Tonal, 1323 01:10:42.119 --> 01:10:44.800 I'm buying Tonal not because Tonal is amazing, which it is, 1324 01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:46.680 because it's you know, I heard that they work with 1325 01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:48.880 a SENSEI. It's got a sense in it. And then 1326 01:10:49.239 --> 01:10:53.680 when you're choosing a physical therapist to recover your ACL 1327 01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:55.680 surgery that you've just had, and you see that this 1328 01:10:55.720 --> 01:10:58.079 physical therapist is powered by a sense you like, I'm 1329 01:10:58.079 --> 01:11:00.159 going to pick that one. So that's our aspiration for 1330 01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:04.399 the company is that people understand, uh deliver the best 1331 01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:09.079 imaginable experience when it comes to learning physical movement and 1332 01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:13.720 you know, reaching your outcome, whether that's you know, a 1333 01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:18.520 sub six rowing time or it's a strong knee after 1334 01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:19.159 a surgery. 1335 01:11:19.319 --> 01:11:21.640 Awesome. So Steven, just before we go, if listeners want 1336 01:11:21.640 --> 01:11:24.199 to find out more about you or a sin say, 1337 01:11:24.359 --> 01:11:27.399 where can they go? For example websites, social media? 1338 01:11:28.399 --> 01:11:31.760 Yeah, so website sense dot ai. I'm sure you'll put 1339 01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:32.920 it in the show notes, so I want to have 1340 01:11:32.920 --> 01:11:35.560 to spell it for everyone, but yeah, certainly our website 1341 01:11:35.600 --> 01:11:38.399 is a good place to reach out to us. We're 1342 01:11:38.439 --> 01:11:40.520 quite prolific on LinkedIn, you know, as a B to 1343 01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:44.840 B company and in this incestuous little industry, we're all 1344 01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:47.720 pretty active on LinkedIn. So that's the best place to 1345 01:11:47.720 --> 01:11:51.079 find me. I'm not hard to find there, and we 1346 01:11:51.119 --> 01:11:53.079 share a lot of on LinkedIn. We do a lot 1347 01:11:53.079 --> 01:11:55.039 of like this is what we're working on, this is 1348 01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:58.640 what customer want. So that's a great spot. And we 1349 01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:01.000 also have a newsletter, like if you're in the industry 1350 01:12:01.119 --> 01:12:02.560 and you want to keep up to date with what 1351 01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:06.000 we're doing, our newsletters called a Sensei insade, so a 1352 01:12:06.079 --> 01:12:09.520 sensey dot com slash insade, and you can go and 1353 01:12:09.640 --> 01:12:12.039 read past issues and staging up for the newsletter there 1354 01:12:12.079 --> 01:12:13.840 as well, so would encourage people to think about doing 1355 01:12:13.880 --> 01:12:14.199 that too. 1356 01:12:15.079 --> 01:12:17.479 Awesome, Steven, thank you so much for your time today. 1357 01:12:17.479 --> 01:12:21.039 It's been absolutely mind blowing talking to you and finding 1358 01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:24.279 out some of the technologies that are available through yourself 1359 01:12:24.279 --> 01:12:26.119 in a sense they so thank you so much. 1360 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:29.600 Mate, Thank you thanks for having me here. 1361 01:12:29.640 --> 01:12:33.399 In my major takeaways from this conversation with Stephen, Firstly, 1362 01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:35.680 as someone who is a bit worried of AI technology, 1363 01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:38.920 I do fear that computers could eventually take over many 1364 01:12:39.199 --> 01:12:42.800 humanistic roles, and in coaching that is no different. But 1365 01:12:42.920 --> 01:12:46.439 given how stretched coaches can be, this software acts more 1366 01:12:46.520 --> 01:12:49.520 as a coaching assistant, putting more time back into the 1367 01:12:49.520 --> 01:12:53.319 coach's day for planning, managing, and also for downtime, a 1368 01:12:53.439 --> 01:12:57.199 win win for all coaches. Something that absolutely astonished me 1369 01:12:57.520 --> 01:13:01.840 was Stevens's explanation of real time captured feedback, where ar 1370 01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:05.760 sense uses motion capture to track and athlete's movements in 1371 01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:09.960 real time. It gives instant objective feedback on technique which 1372 01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:13.279 helps coaches correct form without needing to watch every rep, 1373 01:13:13.800 --> 01:13:16.319 freeing them up to focus on higher level cues. And 1374 01:13:16.399 --> 01:13:20.439 group management. Another aspect of this technology that amazes me 1375 01:13:20.840 --> 01:13:24.039 is its ability to learn. By collecting detailed performance data 1376 01:13:24.159 --> 01:13:28.479 over time, such as range of motion, tempo, and consistency. 1377 01:13:29.399 --> 01:13:32.720 Coaches can use this data to monitor progress, identify trends, 1378 01:13:33.079 --> 01:13:36.239 and personalized programs for each athlete without needing to film 1379 01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:40.880 time or record everything manually. And finally, our Sense bridges 1380 01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:44.479 the gap between face to face and remote coaching. Coaches 1381 01:13:44.520 --> 01:13:48.079 can assign training sessions, review movement data, and give feedback 1382 01:13:48.119 --> 01:13:51.920 without being physically present, making it ideal for hybrid coaching 1383 01:13:51.960 --> 01:13:56.239 models or supporting athletes who train independently. It is amazing 1384 01:13:56.279 --> 01:13:59.079 how fast technology is moving, and us Sense tends to 1385 01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:02.000 be at the forefront for improving both the quality and 1386 01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:06.000 efficiency of personalized coaching. If you have enjoyed this episode, 1387 01:14:06.039 --> 01:14:08.560 please like it, write a review and share it with 1388 01:14:08.600 --> 01:14:11.560 friends and colleagues, and until next time, keep learning.