บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Expectations vs Reality for Staff - with Jolly Corley and Kim Aycock - CampHacker #231

What are we doing the most of? 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:10.160 So the example I give, I know we have to do this to get camp ready. 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:16.560 We have to clean camp, we have to make you know, bunk beds, or if we're day camp, we have to get the spaces ready, whatever it is, the equipment ready. 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:18.240 Of course we have to do that. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:29.199 But if that is the majority of the time spent in orientation, is cleaning, prepping, equipment, then that is what they see as the priority of camp. 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:29.839 Right. 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:31.360 So that is the absolute priority. 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:47.120 If we're not focused on kids and uh community building and developing the culture that we want for our campers and our staff, if that's not the primary focus where they walk away from orientation and say, and someone asks, what's the number one thing this camp is concerned with, right? 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:52.240 After orientation, and they're like community culture, kindness, and they just list your values, whatever it is. 00:05:52.480 --> 00:06:05.279 If they say, like, well, cleaning cabins, blowing up the soccer balls, yes, blowing up the soccer balls, raking the whatever, you know, folding the uh, you know, the towels, making the welcome sign, the welcome signs, great, like that can tie in. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:11.680 Those things have to happen, but I think it's the tying in, as my friend Kim says, it's connecting the dots, right? 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:13.519 So, why are we making welcome signs? 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:14.720 What are we asking them to do? 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:20.399 So, like the difference between making a welcome sign and then making sure every kid's name is on that welcome sign, right? 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:25.439 And then we talk about why is it we're doing it that way or whatever it is, the values, and we're incorporating. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:30.000 And I think it's totally fine to do the cleanup if respect is one of your values, right? 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:37.360 Then it's how do we respect our environment so that we can be in a space that is clean and safe. 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:44.879 And so you can do all those things, but we just have to be a little bit more intentional about connecting again the dots. 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:51.279 Um, and in that way, three weeks in, as you mentioned, Travis, when we're at our staff meeting or whatever, we can begin to tie that in. 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:52.800 Do you remember how important it was? 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:57.199 We had that really big, cool discussion where you all threw out to us how you like to be respected. 00:06:57.360 --> 00:06:58.480 That was what I would do, right? 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.360 I would just ask all the staff, how do you know you're being respected? 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:02.560 What is it the way you're showing that? 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:07.600 I just write all those down, I keep them someplace, bring it out at a staff meeting and say, you guys brought this to us. 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:14.879 We loved it, we shared with you at camp that we feel respected when equipment's put away, not left out in the rain, so that we have to buy more equipment. 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:20.560 We feel, and unfortunately, what we're finding over the last three weeks is things are being left out. 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:21.759 We're not cleaning, right? 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:25.519 So then you're connecting it back to the value, not you guys didn't put the stuff away. 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:27.199 Right. 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:31.439 And then it's about the stuff, not about the value of being respected. 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:43.439 So I think that's where some of that gets lost is the three weeks in, if we ask our staff what's the most important thing, they're not actually able to say the values or the mission statement of camp. 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:45.680 And then we're not able to tie it through. 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:46.639 Right. 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:47.680 Wow. 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.399 Jolly just like transformed into me and said everything I was just going to say. 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:54.879 So ditto, that was phenomenal. 00:07:55.040 --> 00:08:01.279 If you know anything about me, I'm always running around screaming about turning um values into actions and policies. 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:03.759 And that's exactly what you're talking about, Jolly. 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:09.040 Is that, you know, and um, you know, my background's in psychology and social work. 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:13.279 So I use all of those tools to be a better camp director and manipulate everybody. 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:15.279 Um all my constituents. 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:18.000 It sounds terrible, but I swear I only use these powers for good. 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:26.319 But you know, social identity theory says um people get part of their self-identity and motivation from their group membership. 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:37.679 So when you set up a situation like, instead of saying, you know, we expect you as staff, we expect you to create an environment that is safe and inclusive and respectful. 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:44.080 Say at Camp X, our values are safety, respect, and whatever. 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:49.440 And so they can begin to understand, like, oh, that's this is what we do here, right? 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:51.279 This is this is what we do here. 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:58.480 And so in every situation, I know you know, camp highlight, uh, the camp I created is um highly values driven. 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.440 Everything is on values, and we drill the kids so hard. 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:10.320 You you walk into any situation, just look at a field and just go, hmm, how can we apply our values of of responsibility and respect to this field? 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:12.879 Kids, and they'll raise their hands and

be like, we can clean up, we can do this. 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:15.679 And it's like, well, seems like I don't have to say anything at all. 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:16.879 And they just go and they do it. 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:18.320 And it's the same thing with the staff. 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:23.840 It's sort of like when um in conversations with each other, because respect is one of our virtues, right? 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.879 It's sort of like you'll hear them name check, like, okay, I really didn't like the way they said this to me earlier. 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:30.799 Is there a more respectful way that you can say that? 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.000 Like, because that's what we're doing here, is always a subtext. 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:36.799 So yeah, absolutely a hundred percent. 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:42.320 Um, yeah, I just wanted to say everything that Jolly said, uh, plus one check mark. 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:51.919 I like Krista, you talked about uh having clear values that kids can identify and it's small because often you get to mission, vision, and values. 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:58.639 Uh when you say that around a bunch of camp people, they tend to roll their eyes because it's sort of written and forgotten. 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:09.519 But if you can make it um, if you can make it small or doable, like we used to say, um, in everything we do at camp, we're teaching kids how to become good decision makers. 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:15.440 And that's why we had the 4S test, because we gave them a way to practice making good decisions in a safe environment. 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:26.399 It's that's small enough that it's not about you know the seven values that we put together 30 years ago with that staff that's been on the website ever since. 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:34.000 So I appreciate that it's it's it's grab-onable that you they can see it and and feel it in a small way. 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:47.200 Well, and I think too, if they can, if we're talking about our values and we're introducing our values and we're incorporating our values from the very first moment that we have contact with them, then it's not a surprise. 00:10:47.360 --> 00:11:02.559 Like we're not like, you know, bamboozling them or whatever the word might be, you know, because they're, you know, so like if you do, because I do work, you know, the camp that I first started at, we spent a lot of time cleaning and setting up the docks and all of those kinds of things. 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:26.320 And if we set that expectation early on so they know, and then we tie it into our values, like Jolly and Chris were mentioning, then it's then it becomes like, oh yeah, this is of course this is what we do, you know, and we might have some fun while we're doing it, and we might be bonding with our team, you know, our colleagues and our team teammates and our fellow staff, um, and you know, having a chance to get a little silly while we're doing all those things. 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.080 So, um, which can tie into all the other values that you might have. 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:41.519 So oh, I was just thinking one of the things that Kim and I talk about a lot is that like writing that through the whole entire like um uh process of someone becoming a staff member, right? 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:43.759 It's you know, the website when they're seeing things. 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:51.519 I mean, I'm sure um that when we're doing silly, you you know, you have the music on and everybody's, you know, whatever, uh sweeping the docks, right? 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:52.799 Getting the docks ready. 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:58.000 And you have people silly, whether they're wearing silly hats, whether they just have great songs and they're just dancing while they're doing it. 00:11:58.159 --> 00:11:59.279 What a great video. 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:07.759 And then that's part of what staffing see, and they're like, oh, not only am I like gonna be cleaning docks and whatever, but they're having fun doing it. 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:08.720 And then you can relate that. 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:11.519 Like we have cleanup at camp, which is not everyone's favorite, right? 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:12.480 Like it's just not. 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:17.279 It's like cleanup is not no, no kid is like, I can't wait to go back to Robendell so I can do cleanup every day, right? 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.639 But one of the things we encourage is having music, being silly, right? 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:28.799 So then you're tying in, like we're gonna try and practice because no, nobody's like fans, like their favorite part of orientation isn't like cleaning the duck poop off of the docks. 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:40.799 But when we do it and we have fun, um, and fun is one of our values, which is another thing that Kim, you um talked about what well, we had talked about like if fun is one of your values, how do people see that right away? 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:47.519 And we were talking about the fact that if you have the forms that all the staff have to fill out, what happens when they, you know, when they complete it? 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:54.480 Like, does the computer like throw confetti up in the air and say, yay, you completed your application, you completed your health form, or you whatever it was? 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:58.799 And right there, before they even get to camp, they're seeing that wow, this is fun. 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:04.799 It's silly, it's small, but like that's just like one of those ways you can keep tying those little things together. 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:09.519 I need to Jolly has to stop going before me because the way that I have nothing to do. 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:17.519 Yeah, the way that the way that she says everything that I that I just wrote down is um upsetting. 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:19.519 So I I guess I'll pass. 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:23.679 No, no, like and a thousand percent. 00:13:23.840

--> 00:13:28.320 I think first of all, fun as a value is something I actually never considered. 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:29.840 Isn't that weird? 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.960 I I just because fun's fun sort of suffuses all of it. 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:41.120 I think my thing is like, um, and I said this in an earlier podcast that we did when if you lead with the fun, you're gonna get disappointment, right? 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:46.000 Fun has to be a value amidst all the other ones because I've said this many times before. 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:51.200 I think a lot of us we over-emphasize the fun because we feel bad that we're not paying them to do this, right? 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:54.799 So I think that has to be deployed really carefully. 00:13:54.960 --> 00:14:00.000 Talk about the fun work balance and that it is a balance. 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:01.519 It is a balance. 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:06.639 Like you're not, you're you're going to have fun just like you have fun in college, but you're not here to have fun. 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:07.600 Do you know what I mean? 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:07.919 Right. 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:13.360 Um the other thing I would say, I was just I was thinking back to uh like the opening question. 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:17.120 It's like, how can we, or rather, how do we prepare people for like the midweek? 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:18.799 We call it the wall at Camp Highlight. 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:20.960 When you hit the wall, everyone swears they're not gonna hit it. 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.360 Um, but halfway through, everyone's over it. 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:25.600 And this is just something I was thinking about. 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:34.799 I think it'd be helpful if your current staff, you get them to record a video after the wall, just talking about their their job. 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:37.200 Of course, you're going to watch and edit all of these. 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:54.080 But I think it'd be I think it'd be an interesting perspective to like cut that together and show like a new applicant or a new hire and be like, we know this is all fun and games, but I want you to watch this short four-minute video with a collection of staff sharing how they feel halfway through because you should start to identify with that. 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.919 And they're gonna be like, we're exhausted, but it's great, like I'm up all night. 00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:59.840 I I've never had a schedule like this. 00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:03.600 I think people need to hear that from their peers because when we say it, they don't hear it. 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:05.840 That when we say it, it's like, oh, it's really hard work. 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:11.200 You know, that they're just they're looking at the beach volleyball court you have set up and they're like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:13.039 And it's like, no, it is work. 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:21.200 So, and and Jolly, you don't get to go before

me again because I I want to have some, I want to have one good original idea before this podcast ends. 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:23.200 You're getting scooped. 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:34.399 So that feels a lot to me like we have spoken about the the importance of beginnings, of the importance of them being on staff and how we set them up for that. 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:37.440 Do you folks can I jump back? 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:43.120 What how can we make sure expectations are clear and understood before the staff even arrives? 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.960 I think it's that actionizing, like what's gonna happen. 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:55.759 So, like if you do say we're gonna, you know, we're gonna give you support or you're going to be supported throughout the summer, well, what does that support look like? 00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:07.759 Like, I was talking to a camp director yesterday in Connecticut who she talks, you know, to her staff in the interview about like how they um take care of themselves and what their wellness plan is and things like that. 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:12.559 And then she shows them like these cards that she's created, which are amazing. 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:20.799 They're the self-care cards, and she showed she introduces this deck to them and then explains like how they're going to be able to use them during the summer. 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:26.159 So if they need a nap, if they need caffeine, if they need to make a phone call home and those kinds of things. 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:32.720 So it's it's very clear to this particular staff like what what how they are going to be supported. 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:39.919 And the whole you know, administration team is all on board with this, and they're the ones who you know make it all, make it all happen. 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:47.279 So I think we just have to be so careful about what we say and how we kind of clarify what that is. 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:57.600 So because if we don't tell them, then they can make all these assumptions that we may they may, you know, or not be in line with what we had, what what we were thinking. 00:16:57.759 --> 00:16:58.480 So yeah. 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:06.400 Just real quick, I mean, maybe this goes without saying, but then again, be really honest with the staff about. 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:11.519 I mean, obviously you want to be honest with expectations, but I I don't mean something so top level. 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.920 Whatever it is that you're afraid for staff to find out or know, lead with that. 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:17.200 Oh yeah. 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.519 Just lead with whatever it is. 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:28.079 Like I'm thinking, in my experience, I think the thing that I feel most guilty about, other than the pay, um, is the schedule. 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:34.400 It's like you're supposed to be up at 6 30 and this the council meetings at 10 30 and that's an hour long. 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:37.039 And I think

I'm always nervous about that. 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:40.319 I don't know how I don't know how clear we make that in training. 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:42.640 Um and I would just say lead with that. 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:46.079 Because not it's not about starting with the worst thing and back ending. 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:50.559 I just think whatever is you're nervous about, if you put it out there, I'm I'm sure it's not so dire. 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.079 You can work it into the context. 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:58.240 It's way better than hiding parts of the the job or the experience and just hoping that they will catch up. 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:05.119 Um I will say this generation of young people, they don't enjoy surprises. 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:06.079 Yeah. 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:13.599 Um, I mean, I I don't know if anyone did, but I I know other you know, older generations were told they had a roll with whatever was thrown at them. 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.400 Uh this generation was not instructed that way. 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:22.960 Um, so I think it'd be so it'd be very healthy to let them know whatever it is that you're afraid to tell them. 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:24.160 Tell them that first. 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:30.160 I I think I think this is absolutely so like when they're interviewing, you're you're telling them these things. 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:32.880 The one the one thing I would just add, here's my check. 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.200 Oh, sorry, Chris, I'm gonna do it back to you. 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:40.559 Is that one of the things that when I'm interviewing a staff member, I I want to hear all about them. 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:46.319 So the questions that I have are telling me about a time or you know, I just want to hear their story. 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:50.960 I really am not, I always say, I want to know who they are rather than what they can do for me first, right? 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:52.240 Because who they are is so important. 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:56.240 That's at core, their values, how they handle something challenging. 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:02.559 And so if the thing I'm afraid of is the schedule, then that's the question that's in my in my um interview. 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:12.640 And it's like, tell me about a time when your schedule was just overwhelming and you had multiple things that were due or multiple things you had to be at, whether it's family events or work or school. 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:23.839 And then if I really like feel passionate about this staff member, like I'm like, this person's it, then when I get to the end and I start then talking about camp, what I tried to do is connect and say, you know what? 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:38.079 When you told me the story about having to be at your grandmother's 80th, but you also had a ball game and you had a big paper due, I knew that you're gonna be able to handle the schedule we have because we have the schedule where we get up at 6:30, we have an hour long 1030. 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:42.799 And when you talked about that, I said, here's the person who can do this job, who's so capable. 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:44.799 And then they already know that. 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:51.519 And I'm telling them the reason I want you to come to camp because you're capable of doing the hard things that we need staff to do. 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:53.839 And I think that is so important. 00:19:53.920 --> 00:20:03.200 It's why I like to lead with that, because then lead with like who they are and then lead with my parts of camp of what connects to them, right? 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:04.319 So all of it, right? 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:08.720 Like why, you know, why it is I think that they're gonna be a really good fit for our culture. 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.640 Because then they see themselves there, right? 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:12.400 Rather than just like, am I able to do that? 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:13.599 Am I capable of that? 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:14.640 I think it's another thing. 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:16.559 We've made our kids a little fragile. 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:28.400 And this is maybe a whole topic, but that we we've I was just talking about this last night with someone that when we rescue kids from like overnight situations and not just camp, like they're just gonna go spend the night with a friend, right? 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:29.839 And they get upset. 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:35.119 When that call comes from the other parent and it says, you know, she's really upset or he's really upset. 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:36.720 I just think you have to come get him. 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:44.480 When we go pick him up or her up, we've just said, you know what, I also don't think you're you didn't think you were capable and you were sad, but I also don't think you're capable. 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:45.440 And so we've done it. 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:56.559 And those are the kind of things that we the, you know, as Chris was saying, this generation has been wicked out being told, had their action, as we say, actions speak louder than words. 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:02.000 So when we as adults do things like that to come in and rescue kids, we are saying, you're right, you're not capable of this. 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:12.799 And so we as staff or director camp directors have to tell our staff you are capable, and here's how I know you are, because the interview process, you've told me a story that tells me you can do the hard things I need you to do. 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:14.079 And I like that, Jolly. 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:27.839 One of the things I've been had I all the time in the world, I would take on um how we do training and how we communicate with staff and how we get staff to properly absorb all the things we need them to. 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.599 Um and who knows, maybe when everybody's at camp to summer, I'll start to pull it together. 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:35.680

But um I I think a lot about that. 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:44.400 And one of the things that I've been thinking a lot about is if we do training so that it works for neurodivergent folks, it's better for everyone. 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:45.359 Everybody. 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:59.359 And one of the things that is where I'm jumping off of what you said is one of the best things in terms of delivering expectations to staff or asking them to do something is a framework I learned from. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.519 Elle Mills, nope. 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:02.799 Ellie Middleton. 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:04.160 Elle Mills is a YouTuber. 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:10.640 Ellie Middleton, um who has written a couple of really interesting books. 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:16.160 Her simple thing is when we ask somebody to do something, we give them three pieces of information. 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:20.799 What they have to do when we need it by and why they're doing it. 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.079 And the why they're doing it means a lot more buy-in. 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:29.119 It gives them like this is not just the thing you're inventing to make me do hard things. 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:34.799 Um, but it also means you have a culture of people who know why we do things at camp in the end. 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:41.519 And that that is a setup I think is is a great way to present stuff differently. 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:49.200 I also think, and I'll I'll um actually put it in as um I may put it in as my tool of the week. 00:22:49.279 --> 00:23:02.640 Uh I saw a video just today which was a high school math teacher who does a lot of TikToks about her high school math setup, and she's a great TikToker, but she has invested in her classroom. 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:06.720 Obviously, she's a teacher's gotten a point she doesn't have to shift classrooms every year or two. 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:12.799 Um anyway, she's invested in her classroom, and one of the biggest things is that they aren't desks and rows. 00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:17.359 Um, and she's got different kinds of seating arrangements and and all of those things. 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:24.720 It's like it this should be not every staff member sitting at a picnic bench watching turn sideways and watching someone down there. 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:34.400 Um it we should be thinking about ways we can make this more engaging, more interesting, and more kind to the people that we have such high expectations of. 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:42.240 I've been trying to think of a way like all winter to like like revolutionize and rethink staff training. 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:44.240 I know. 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:45.920 I'm just putting that out into the universe. 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:48.400 If anybody's interested in ideas, contact me. 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:51.039 But and and trying to come together with something. 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:56.160 I think because not for nothing, but the amount of stuff that we have

to tell staff seems to get longer every year. 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:57.200 Uh definitely. 00:23:57.920 --> 00:23:59.920 But we don't get any more training time, right? 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.799 We can't ask them to come a full other week earlier. 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.640 You know, everyone's got constraints. 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:10.319 So there's just gotta be I think there's gotta be a multimodal way to do the training to prepare people. 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:12.880 Anyway, that's I'll just leave it there. 00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:17.359 But gotta use every tool in the toolbox to get people to learn stuff. 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.319 And for instance, just one example, YouTube. 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:24.720 Is there anybody younger than 25 that doesn't use YouTube to learn how to do anything? 00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:26.240 Well, let's lean into that. 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:26.799 Right? 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:28.160 They're already on the platform. 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:28.960 Let's lean into it. 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:30.079 Learn how to do your job. 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.319 Exclusive for Camp Packer listeners. 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:36.559 Grab UltraCamp's free guide, the parent experience checklist. 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:40.720 Practical steps to simplify registration and keep families coming back. 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:46.400 Download at ultracampmanagement.com slash camphacker. 00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:51.359 Parents don't want clunky processes, and you don't want constant phone calls. 00:24:51.599 --> 00:25:06.480 Ultracamp helps you simplify registration with mobile-friendly forms, offer payment plans that work for your families, reduce calls and emails with automated reminders, and keep parents engaged with built-in communication tools. 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:14.160 Ultracamp helps you create smooth, stress-free parent interactions so your team can focus on camp, not customer service. 00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:18.480 Learn more at ultracampmanagement.com slash campacker. 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:40.319 Well, I mean, this is also part of my this whole rethinking step training, but it's part of my communication framework that for communicating to parents as well as for communicating to staff is that we have to give them all the information and then break all that information down into the most important things that we're going to repeat a number of times and we're going to do them in different mediums. 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:45.359 And that way we have a much greater chance of hitting different learners and the repetition at the right pace. 00:25:45.519 --> 00:26:02.079 And I think there's some really interesting lessons around um the study practices from Japan, how they've learned the proper pace of repetition to get things in, and um there's a lot of interesting opportunities for us to lead with this. 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.160 That feels like a natural end to this. 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:09.039 So I thank you all for this discussion. 00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:12.640 What I'm gonna do is move us on to our tool of the week. 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:14.400 Tool of the week. 00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:25.440 Today I want to start with Jolly for the tool of the week, please. 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:27.200 It's me, it's me. 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:31.759 I got this trail notes at uh Tri-State Conference, ACA conference. 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:35.680 It's uh by Trellis Press, and I like it because it's for camp. 00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:36.799 I mean, they made it campy. 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:38.400 There's actually three different journals. 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:47.519 It's a journal and um it has little quotes in it, but I just thought it also So everyone on the podcast already knows because I said it before, but I like how it feels. 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:50.000 It's like really soft and I'm a tactile person. 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:54.240 Uh, when we talk about how, you know, earlier, as you were talking about all different kinds of learners. 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.440 Not everyone's a journaler, not everyone is is writing things down. 00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:04.960 One of the things I do um with my staff though is um if I don't have paper for them to do, putting big sheets of paper so they can doodle. 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:06.480 I I think some people are doodlers. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:08.559 It is okay. 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:11.599 Like so putting crayons, I think some people are like, oh, they're not paying attention to me. 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.119 And I'm like, I promise you, if they're doodling, they they need that. 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:19.119 And and this could be if you happen to have the budget, or you could just get one for yourself. 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:28.160 But if you have the budget to be able to get something like this for everyone, um, it's just uh, you know, the quotes are kind of interesting, but also it gives them a spot to doodle when you're at those meetings. 00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:29.920 But here's another, you have to connect. 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:32.640 If you if you allow doodling, right? 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:40.720 If that is something you're okay with, you need to say that because there'll always be somebody in the that's a little nervous to do it, or other people who are judging them. 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:43.680 Like they were just doodling through the whole meeting and I was paying attention. 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:49.519 So Tool of the Week is this beautiful um uh journal, I trellis press. 00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:51.440 Thank you, Jolly. 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:53.440 Chris, what's yours? 00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:55.599 Um, great question. 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:03.839 So I'm a nerd and I love board games, and I forced my staff to play board games. 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:08.400 Uh yeah, that's not only been out paid a lot, but they got to play board games. 00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:10.880 But in all seriousness, you must have fun.

00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:17.599 Yes, before camp starts, um, and we we used to put a we used to put someone in charge of this one of the returners. 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:23.279 Is that someone be in charge of running like two social groups on Zoom before camp starts? 00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:23.599 Right. 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:30.880 So it's an opportunity for people to meet each other and chat before training starts, because part of our training is on Zoom and that's a long day. 00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:32.559 We do an eight-hour Zoom. 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:35.839 So before that, people come in, they already have the inside jokes, they already have. 00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:37.119 So, how do we do that? 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:42.400 We get them together, and um, there's a uh platform called Board Game Arena. 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:49.680 I don't understand the logistics of this, but you can play any board game on board game arena, like with the graphics and all of it. 00:28:49.839 --> 00:29:05.359 It's it's I don't know how the money is exchanging hands because to me it feels like a giant lawsuit, but you can play anything from like Uno and Yahtzee all the way up to very complicated games like Arc Nova and Terraforming Mars on this platform for basically free. 00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:11.920 And it's great to have everyone log on to that, have a Zoom window open, and you are playing a board game together while chatting. 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:13.440 So I'm just putting that out there. 00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:17.440 If you are a nerd, uh you're you if you're a nerd, you already know about board game arena. 00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:27.839 Um, but if you're an aspiring nerd, check it out because it's a really easy way to bring people together and give them a function, get them get get them doing something while doing something else. 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:31.359 That is, they're playing a game while they're also connecting and commuting. 00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:32.000 Great. 00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:33.200 I thank you, Chris. 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.920 I have mentioned mine, so I'm going to put a TikTok in, which is this teacher talking about her classroom setup. 00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:42.319 Um, my other tool of the week, which I think is important, so I just want to say it. 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:48.960 Um, and my other tool of the week is an electronic tire pressure gauge. 00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:56.400 Um, one of the things for our camp drivers is we expect them to sign off that they've inspected their vehicle. 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.960 And one of the things that's always a pain, especially the old school ones, is checking the tire pressure. 00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:07.119 And it would be something we'd expect all of the time, but it needs to be recorded a few times a summer for insurance reasons. 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:19.279 Uh and this one is just take the cap off, push down, it gives you the number instead of um having to bend way over and fiddle and put that metal thing in and then watch the bar pop out and see how many numbers are on the bar. 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:21.039 And now this is nice and easy. 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:25.039 So I'm gonna put that in as my my bonus tool of the week. 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:26.079 Kim. 00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.559 Well, I have you've all set the bar pretty high for the tool of the week. 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:47.680 Um, but I will say, um, Jolly, there is research on the doodling because as a teacher, I learn it's like 28 or 29 percent if of learners who are doodling actually they actually are grabbing more than the person who's not doodling. 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:57.920 So I usually tell my students, like, unless you're doing Picasso, like you're you know, into this really big art project, then maybe you're not learning, but doodle, you know, doodle away. 00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:58.720 It's it's awesome. 00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:00.400 So I'm glad you mentioned that. 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:09.359 Um, my tool of the week is from um Chad Littlefield, We and Me Um cards or We Connect cards. 00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:14.720 And this is a new uh version of his cards and they are future focused. 00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:17.119 It says talk your way into tomorrow. 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:24.559 And I love I love that these are um he has a story that goes with it. 00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:29.440 And so he he talks about how questions can potentially edit the future. 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:35.759 And so if somebody asked him one day, like, what would you like to do more of? 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.960 And he kind of, you know, he said, uh, well, I grew up on, you know, the the Cape or something. 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.599 I'd I really would like to do scuba diving more. 00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:48.640 And he didn't really think about it again until months later he was going to do a conference in Florida. 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:55.200 And so he booked a day or two on the front or back end to go scuba diving, which is that thing that he really wanted to do more of. 00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:58.240 So that question truly edited his future. 00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:11.440 So not only are there questions like what is one thing life is teaching you right now on one side, but then on the back side, there's a word um and a drawing that kind of illustrates that word. 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:25.599 And so you can have them all laid out on the on a table and have people come in and you can give them a prompt and you can have them so like for staff training, you can have this really cool prompt and have them pick their card and then you know, share with a partner, share with a couple people, kind of kind of thing. 00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:30.319 So lots of um, lots of good uses for this this tool. 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:32.960 Thank you, Chad Littlefield. 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:34.640 Thank you, Chad Littlefield. 00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:43.359 That also is um, I've talked a lot on on

CarePacker at different times about giving our staff social scripts to get them through awkward moments. 00:32:43.519 --> 00:33:02.640 And on the previous episode, we're talking about a script with parents, but I give staff a script for conversations with kids because it was our expectation that staff could have had would have checked off that they've had a 30-second conversation with each kid in their care every week that was just focused on that child, not the whole group moving from place to place in a group experience. 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:10.480 Um, and we started to feel that staff were kind of struggling with what is a conversation um and how we do it. 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.440 And so uh my framework was, you know, what do you find interesting? 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:22.559 Tell me more, which is and and my mnemonic is Ian for the guy who noticed me when I was 13 years old. 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:24.880 Um, interesting and next. 00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:43.920 And so I think that next piece is really interesting, Kim, because the future in those cards, I don't think I mean kids have people ask them where they want to be when they grow up, but they don't often have kids who or people are really interested in like what's the next couple of weeks for you or what happens after camp, or it just that kind of attention I think is powerful from kids. 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.640 So I'm glad that there's another tool to echo that. 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:48.880 So thank you. 00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:52.000 Thank you all for a uh for a great discussion. 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:56.079 Kim, if people want to get in touch, follow up with you, how do they do that? 00:33:56.480 --> 00:34:09.039 Uh you can find me on my website, Kim Acok A Y C O C K dot com or Kim D as in Davidacock at gmail.com. 00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:11.119 And then I love to be on LinkedIn. 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:16.400 I'm on LinkedIn and um Instagram, Kim underscore acock underscore. 00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:19.199 Your middle name's David? 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.599 No, it's Denise, but I always say David. 00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:22.480 I don't know why. 00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:24.000 I just always say David. 00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:29.280 Delta Maybecause my I know that's the what is it though? 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:30.559 What alphabet is that? 00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:32.079 The military, yes. 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:32.559 I should know that. 00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:33.920 I have a husband in the military. 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:34.800 But yes. 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.119 Kim Delta ACOC. 00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:38.159 All right. 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:41.679 Jolly, how can people get in touch with you? 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:42.800 Thank you, Chris. 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:44.079 I mean, I appreciate that. 00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:53.360 Um you can connect quick meet Jolly, J O L L Y at Robindell, R-O-B-I-N, as a nancy d-e-l.com. 00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:57.199 I also have a website which is just jollycorly.com. 00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:58.800 And you can connect with me there. 00:34:59.039 --> 00:34:59.519 Thanks. 00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:00.639 Fantastic. 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:03.280 So is your middle name, Nancy? 00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:08.559 Would I let's do a whole nother hour on whose middle name is what. 00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:10.480 Um in the meantime. 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:16.320 If the meantime, if you're looking for me, um leave a plate of snacks out. 00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:19.679 Depending on what it is, we'll see how it goes. 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:20.719 Can't wait for that. 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:24.239 Email me at uh planetchris at gmail.com. 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:27.920 Check out my website, please, planetchris.net. 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.639 I'm starting a innovative, fantastic new parenting group. 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:35.119 It's for people who want to take on modern parenting. 00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.000 So you can check that out at planetchris.net slash village. 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:41.039 I'm also on LinkedIn at Chris Hudson One. 00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:44.239 So please connect with me and let's do that whole networking thing. 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:54.159 But Travis, if people want to find you, you can go to gocamp.pro or Travis at gocamp.pro is my email address. 00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:56.960 And we're always happy to hear about this. 00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:07.039 Um, thanks to to Jolly and Kim for being on our last show of this our 16th season, 15th season of Camp Hacker. 00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:09.199 Um, we're grateful to have you both. 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.719 And Chris, thank you for an amazing year of great conversations. 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:16.239 I I love you and I love Camp. 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:18.880 So this is the easiest lift for me all week. 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:20.400 Easiest lift. 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:21.199 Amazing. 00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:26.559 I gotta close us out by uh highlighting the Camp Code podcast. 00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:30.159 Many of you will be listening to this, it'll be prepping staff training. 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:39.599 And uh Camp Code's entire entire show is about staff training, and they have about 12 years of episodes on staff training. 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:55.199 And um I think a lot of people that you know and respect in the industry have been guests on uh on Camp Code, and um it'd be a good resource for you to search in your podcast app for the Camp Code Podcast. 00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:08.079 And we want to thank again our guests this week and the sponsors of this week's episode, as well as our editor, Ryan Van der Torn and GoCamp Pro's executive producer of podcasting, the inimitable Matt Wilfred. 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:10.960 Thanks for the evening, friends. 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:23.519 The Camp Hacker Podcast is brought to you by Beth and Travis Allison, Summer Camp Leadership Training and Marketing Consultants. 00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:24.880 Thanks for listening. 00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:32.000 Camp Hacker is bringing your world into focus.