บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Ed Clancy | Saving British Road Racing

denny. 00:06:54.548 --> 00:06:54.970 Good to hear. 00:06:54.970 --> 00:07:01.365 Well, hopefully we'll get a chance to unpick a little bit of that kind of issue diagnosis you've just given us there, ed. 00:07:01.365 --> 00:07:04.509 But take us back to kind of last year. 00:07:04.509 --> 00:07:17.966 You've had many big challenges over the years, but I imagine accepting the task of being task force chair was perhaps a difficult, one of the more difficult challenges potentially. 00:07:17.966 --> 00:07:22.831 But when did you, when were you first asked to become chair of the task force? 00:07:22.831 --> 00:07:25.406 How, when did that all become apparent to you? 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:31.690 I think John Dutton, the new CEO from British Cycling. 00:07:31.690 --> 00:07:37.711 I tell you, it all started, like you know, in the very first week or so like John Dutton was appointed CEO of British Cycling. 00:07:37.711 --> 00:07:41.632 I'm guessing that was like summer last year, wasn't it? 00:07:41.632 --> 00:07:44.060 Yeah, and you know. 00:07:44.060 --> 00:07:49.651 I met him before on a trip with UK Sport out in Dubai. 00:07:49.651 --> 00:07:51.014 It sounds very glamorous, but it wasn't. 00:07:52.161 --> 00:07:58.348 And I first met him then he was still heavily involved in the rugby world and you know I spent half an hour or so with him. 00:07:58.348 --> 00:08:01.526 I think he might have had a meal with you know half a dozen or other so people. 00:08:01.526 --> 00:08:04.107 So I met him there and didn't really think anything else of it. 00:08:04.107 --> 00:08:05.269 And then he got the job as a CEO. 00:08:05.269 --> 00:08:09.269 So I dropped him a message, just been like hey, john, like great to see the new CEO. 00:08:09.269 --> 00:08:16.762 I knew he'd had a successful past in rugby so I just sort of reached out and said hey, if you ever want any help with anything, drops a line. 00:08:19.543 --> 00:08:26.382 And I think a week later or so I sat down with John and you know he obviously loves his cycling. 00:08:26.382 --> 00:08:37.346 He was very into it, very knowledgeable, and we spoke about multiple things, you know, active travel and the sport in terms of like where the elite team are at and the Olympic team. 00:08:37.346 --> 00:08:49.950 And there was one thing he was really interested in right back then in the middle of last summer and it was the demise or the other struggle that British domestic road races having. 00:08:49.950 --> 00:08:56.524 And you know, very simplistically he kind of said look, you know, if we look at the bottom end of the sport, we're doing all right. 00:08:56.524 --> 00:09:01.390 If you look at the upper echelons, like the Olympic team and so on, it would seem like we're doing all right. 00:09:01.390 --> 00:09:09.510 It's just kind of like this sticking point in the middle, this domestic road racing scene, which is which he knew had been thriving for the last 10 years or so. 00:09:09.510 --> 00:09:12.967 But he was also acutely aware that it was struggling. 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:30.168 And again we sort of left the conversation there and a few months later I don't know, it was like August, september perhaps he sort of came to me, reached out again and said I'm thinking about this, creating a task force, you know, to have a bit of a deep dive into what we were speaking about. 00:09:30.168 --> 00:09:36.490 And at that point I was like all right, so you want me to chair this thing, right, john? 00:09:36.490 --> 00:09:39.225 And John was like, yeah, I think you can do it. 00:09:39.225 --> 00:09:42.508 But he also said I think you need a bit of support, you need a bit of mentoring. 00:09:42.508 --> 00:09:52.970 So, yeah, he sent me out to, I guess, like a performance consultant, and I've done a bit of chairing, you know, of meetings in a more informal way. 00:09:52.970 --> 00:09:57.688 But I wanted to make sure, and he wanted to make sure, that we did it properly for this. 00:09:57.688 --> 00:10:05.347 So I had a bit of consultancy performance consultancy with this fellow called Chris, and then off we went on our journey. 00:10:06.581 --> 00:10:07.745 So that's how it came about. 00:10:07.745 --> 00:10:12.725 Were you at all hesitant about taking on the task? 00:10:14.629 --> 00:10:15.250 Yes and no. 00:10:15.250 --> 00:10:30.448 Yes, of course it's only because I love it and of course you want to do a good job and you know I'm probably not one of these people that just has like never ending confidence. 00:10:30.448 --> 00:10:40.100 So from that point of view, yeah, I was hesitant, but also, no, I was like you know what, if we're going to have a go at this, let's do it and let's do it properly and it's. 00:10:40.100 --> 00:10:44.230 You know, it was a great privilege for him to reach out to me to have a go at this. 00:10:44.230 --> 00:10:56.330 And as soon as you know, the other seven members were announced, some of them like John Ehrity, phil Jones, steve Fry, joe Tinley, monica. 00:10:56.850 --> 00:10:58.192 All of a sudden I was like you know what? 00:10:58.192 --> 00:11:16.672 I just knew we had a good team and I knew that, whilst I was relatively inexperienced at chairing, I knew those guys in the meetings, like Steve, like Phil, that do it on a daily basis. 00:11:16.672 --> 00:11:22.611 I knew we had like the current and relevant eyes and ears with Joe and Monica. 00:11:22.611 --> 00:11:36.312 I knew we had Jess from RAFA that had a bit more of a creative understanding and vision that I never had as a cyclist and I thought, you know what, if we can't do it with this team, it can't be done. 00:11:36.312 --> 00:11:38.405 So at that point I started feeling a bit more confident. 00:11:39.549 --> 00:11:40.201 Yeah, I mean it's. 00:11:40.201 --> 00:11:42.625 I mean like, as you say, you were hesitant. 00:11:42.625 --> 00:11:50.389 You wanted to do a good job because you care about sport and I've always thought we needed something like the task force.

00:11:50.389 --> 00:12:02.947 But, on the other hand, no-transcript, for example, if I'd been lucky enough to be been invited on what a what a poison chalice it could be, because it's such a big responsibility, such a complex set of issues. 00:12:02.947 --> 00:12:15.068 You've got to try and unpick and we can all see Issues and problems with the scene, but actually identifying the way forward is is a is another problem entirely, and I guess your difficulty was not only that. 00:12:15.068 --> 00:12:25.388 But then you had to Marshall the I guess probably, I imagine, very strong ideas of seven, as you say, very bright, articulate, passionate people. 00:12:26.769 --> 00:12:54.241 How I knew, as he admitted, perhaps didn't have loads experience of chairing, how difficult was that to to manage in the end, well, yeah, it's a great question and I guess I fortunately had a bit of help from my friends and you know, I guess I people like yourself then it's had a bit of time and experience in like the business world and it was Phil Jones, really that kind of said Ed Very soon after the first meeting. 00:12:54.241 --> 00:12:57.236 It was, like you know, great, great first call. 00:12:57.236 --> 00:12:58.639 It was great to meet everyone. 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:03.048 It was just the case of going around and having intros and understanding a bit about each of this background and so on. 00:13:03.048 --> 00:13:18.488 It was he describes as a wicked problem and not like a kickflip on a skateboard wicked but like wicked as complex moving parts and he said this is going to be a complicated beast, ed, so we need a framework and a structure for this. 00:13:19.636 --> 00:13:24.366 And then he sent over this template and add five steps on it. 00:13:24.366 --> 00:13:38.472 There were diagnosis, discovery we reach out to the people and I can go through all these in a bit more detail and then we had a debrief and then we sort of like we had a couple of days in the office in Manchester. 00:13:38.472 --> 00:13:55.294 We all came together and we had this big priority matrix of, you know, almost hundreds of potential solutions we could could have come up with, and we sort of refined these into a priority matrix about which is going to have the most impact, which was going to cost the least, and so on. 00:13:55.294 --> 00:14:18.110 And once we kind of unpicked things out, this priority matrix, then this wasn't easy, you know, trying to narrow it down into this whole like less but better approach 16 tangible, specific, attainable recommendations. 00:14:18.110 --> 00:14:21.313 That would be relatively easy to hold British cycling account to. 00:14:21.333 --> 00:14:40.407 You know, which is what we were Rather than giving him like is a thousand impossible challenges you know, let's work with what's realistic and attainable, and yeah, yeah, and I mean I'll come back to those, yeah, in a moment, ed. 00:14:40.407 --> 00:14:46.413 But I mean you mentioned in the or you did a little

video when you, when the task force, kind of announced it's kind of initial diagnosis of the problems. 00:14:46.413 --> 00:14:47.855 I think it was like a little interim report, wasn't there last year? 00:14:47.855 --> 00:14:55.668 And I think you said there that there had been some difficult conversations. 00:14:55.668 --> 00:14:59.475 Yeah, can you give us a bit of an insight into what you meant by by that? 00:14:59.735 --> 00:15:08.731 I think what I meant by that was yeah, I think this is fair say. 00:15:08.731 --> 00:15:18.400 I honestly think that, at least myself, I had this Dream. 00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:22.846 That would almost be like great, with three or four meetings in and you know what? 00:15:22.846 --> 00:15:24.528 We've just found a big silver bullet here. 00:15:24.528 --> 00:15:25.369 That's going to be like. 00:15:25.369 --> 00:15:26.309 Here we go. 00:15:26.309 --> 00:15:43.798 This is the answer to you know all the problems, but you know it didn't transpire like that and you know I think the more experienced of the group Perhaps saw that coming and I think that was Wasn't disheartening. 00:15:43.798 --> 00:15:50.818 But that point, you know, this point of diagnosis, you know we kind of separated things out. 00:15:50.818 --> 00:15:54.105 I think I said this in the video we put out there. 00:15:54.105 --> 00:16:00.368 We kind of separated things out like sporting pathway and commercial issues and PR, media issues and we kind of. 00:16:06.087 --> 00:16:06.649 Operational. 00:16:06.649 --> 00:16:07.191 See other one. 00:16:07.191 --> 00:16:08.735 I think yeah, operation. 00:16:10.217 --> 00:16:13.865 We kind of realized not to use a sport, and now it was almost going to be a case like marginal gains. 00:16:13.865 --> 00:16:16.190 You know, trying to think of some things that were. 00:16:16.190 --> 00:16:23.215 Try to do a number of small things that give us something, a decent aggregate total, if that makes sense. 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.202 Was that the case around? 00:16:26.202 --> 00:16:49.794 I mean you said there was some people perhaps more realistic or pragmatic going into it, because I think you know from the outside, a lot of us we're putting a lot of hopes on this task force because you know we're like you, we all care about the British road racing scene, we're passionate about it and we're desperate to see it start moving in the right direction after a few years of decline. 00:16:49.794 --> 00:16:58.714 I mean that obviously we'd all love to see some kind of silver bullet or something, some kind of revolution, kind of sparked new life into the, into domestic road racing. 00:16:58.714 --> 00:17:06.737 Before you're saying that's you know, the more you looked at it that just wasn't, wasn't feasible. 00:17:07.018 --> 00:17:20.402 Yeah, I mean that doesn't mean to say that it can't be turned around and you know it's absolutely possible that in 3, 4, 5 years we might have like an outstanding, you know, we might have a road

race series. 00:17:20.402 --> 00:17:28.009 That is the perfect breeding ground for our rides that go on to be professional. 00:17:28.009 --> 00:17:38.765 You know, when we did our survey, believe it or not, it was over half of them after people racing in the domestic road race series have ambition to be professional. 00:17:38.765 --> 00:17:41.159 So I mean that be gold standard. 00:17:41.159 --> 00:17:51.403 If we had a great road series at a stage race or two, it had a better geographical spread, a better spread of terrain, if that makes sense. 00:17:51.403 --> 00:17:59.396 Basically, we kind of identified road racing is going to be about a place for riders to progress more than anything, because that's what they want it. 00:18:01.674 --> 00:18:36.961 Circuit series, yeah, like the tour series is gone now we know that Doesn't mean to say that we can't poach all the good stuff that happened there, you know, and if we have a bit of a Brand like a franchise model, something that's easier to sell in terms of Getting buy-in from sponsors, marketing teams, local authorities, because the circuit race series is different, it's entertainment and it has stood on its own two feet, unlike road racing financially. 00:18:36.961 --> 00:18:38.345 And yeah, it can do that again. 00:18:39.556 --> 00:18:42.122 It can yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 00:18:42.122 --> 00:18:55.819 I mean you kind of in the vision section of the, the recommendations document, you kind of spell out a Very high-level terms kind of what you'd like to see for the road scene and and the circuit series. 00:18:55.819 --> 00:18:58.467 But I mean we should probably come on to the recommendations. 00:18:58.467 --> 00:19:12.306 I mean first of all, as you say, there were 16 recommendations there and you said early, you know you tried to make them specific and kind of measurable Things that you could hold British cycling account to. 00:19:12.306 --> 00:19:15.962 How hopeful are you first of all that? 00:19:15.962 --> 00:19:17.676 What's your? 00:19:17.676 --> 00:19:20.868 I mean what's the response been from British cycling so far? 00:19:20.868 --> 00:19:25.925 How hopeful are you that they're gonna act on, on your recommendations? 00:19:27.316 --> 00:19:28.240 Yeah, it's a good question. 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:50.865 So, obviously, the task force you know our job is to go away and We've been on this big diagnosis and discovery journey and we've tried to co-create and co-design these recommendations within the realms of what you know, we believe to be realistic and attainable. 00:19:50.865 --> 00:20:17.838 Okay, now, whether British cycling choose to act upon them is out of our control, if that makes sense, and so I Can't prophesies the future, but what I can say is, you know, in the conversations I have had with John Dutton, you know I ultimately is up to him to say right, we're gonna allocate X amount of money or X amount of resource to sorting this out in X amount of time. 00:20:17.838 --> 00:20:19.403

That's up to him. 00:20:20.551 --> 00:20:35.895 Um, the Fact that he's put this task force together, the fact that he's turned up for meetings, the fact that he could have quite easily, when you think about it, he could have said you know what, won't we just go where the energy is, let's? 00:20:35.895 --> 00:20:38.644 Let's perhaps look at gravel racing or swift racing or whatever it is. 00:20:38.644 --> 00:20:40.159 But no, I didn't. 00:20:40.159 --> 00:20:40.820 You know what he's. 00:20:40.820 --> 00:20:42.065 He stood by this. 00:20:42.065 --> 00:20:44.642 So, you know, that gives me hope. 00:20:44.642 --> 00:20:54.882 But I also want to sort of temper that with the fact that It'll be spinning a lot of plates and it will Take time, if that makes sense. 00:20:56.336 --> 00:21:02.167 Yeah, I mean, a couple of things stuck out to me when the the initial press release came out about the task force. 00:21:02.167 --> 00:21:09.843 One was that there's a quote, quote from from John Dutton, and he said the task force won't be a talking shop. 00:21:09.843 --> 00:21:13.060 Yeah, and at the end of the quote it said they will. 00:21:13.060 --> 00:21:17.588 He's looking for a number of areas where they can and will make immediate progress. 00:21:18.739 --> 00:21:25.286 Yeah, do you get a sense that there will be, even from your recommendations, that they can and will be immediate progress? 00:21:25.286 --> 00:21:48.615 Because, because one of the things I've kind of observed look at the recommendations is a lot of them are actually recommendations, yeah, to British cycling to go away and do another review about a specific issue, or the things that are going to be difficult for British cycling to to enact immediately or Are slightly open to interpretation in terms of how British cycling tried to decide to implement them. 00:21:48.615 --> 00:22:03.525 So I just wondered whether you think it maybe this is a result of the fact that, of just the complexity of the scene and kind of the discussions you've had but whether You've identified any quick wins that you're hopeful British cycling might implement. 00:22:04.026 --> 00:22:27.925 So, if you look at like this isn't necessarily result of our, our recommendations I mean, it can't be because they haven't been released yet but, for example, like the, if you look at the 2024 road racing calendar, it would seem that, as a better geographical spread, there's at least one stage racing there, hopefully two, which is really important. 00:22:27.925 --> 00:22:29.368 That's what the riders are saying they wanted. 00:22:29.368 --> 00:22:47.981 So, whilst it wasn't necessarily down to us, it looks like there are positive signs and Totally, to be totally honest and this is yes, I'll take this, this isn't, this is my fault. 00:22:47.981 --> 00:23:13.138 It was me chairing the meetings and you know we could have had four or five, maybe a couple of that, in-person sessions at the back end of last year, hitting with some recommendations that that weren't fought through, weren't co-designed, weren't co-created with the race organizers, the commissaires, the riders and so on, and it still wouldn't have made a difference. 00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:21.044 You know, in 2024, these things do take time and you know we can sort of say like I mean, this is no secret. 00:23:21.044 --> 00:23:26.729 There's some great stuff in the tour series, you know, entertaining racing right, and we can have a look at that. 00:23:26.729 --> 00:23:37.017 And what made that entertaining Was the VIP areas, was it the locations, the racing format and you know sprints, jerseys, the sort of team aspect of it, things like that it's. 00:23:37.017 --> 00:23:41.282 But you can't just be like slap there, you go, copy that. 00:23:41.282 --> 00:23:42.144 You know this takes time. 00:23:42.144 --> 00:23:43.027 They've got to look into it. 00:23:43.027 --> 00:23:47.546 They've got almost have like a mini task force for each of these recommendations We've given them. 00:23:47.546 --> 00:23:54.210 And yeah, you're right, denny, you know what, no one's more impatient than me. 00:23:54.210 --> 00:23:57.824 But Unfortunately these things do take time. 00:23:57.824 --> 00:24:09.744 And yeah, like I said, you know, if there was a golden bullet, if we could just be like right, we recommend that Netflix comes and they make a story, they make a big fuss about this. 00:24:09.744 --> 00:24:14.503 You know, overnight, sponsors, partners, bike teams, everyone be getting paid a fortune. 00:24:14.503 --> 00:24:15.386 It just happened. 00:24:15.386 --> 00:24:17.900 But that's not realistic either. 00:24:19.819 --> 00:24:50.596 No, I'm, I'm, I completely appreciate that need and this, this is a really complex picture and and and it's interesting that kind of approach you said earlier you know this is almost a marginal gains approach to use, to coin that phrase, but so I guess the sense is that you feel like Acute, you know, cumulatively, if British cycling were to implement these 16 recommendations effectively and in good time, yeah, we could have a very different Scene. 00:24:50.596 --> 00:24:51.559 I mean, did you? 00:24:51.559 --> 00:25:02.521 Because when you, when you did the the initial All that video, you kind of mentioned those three areas commercialization, sporting pathways and kind of operational challenges. 00:25:02.521 --> 00:25:06.944 Did you then try to match those recommendations to those three areas? 00:25:06.944 --> 00:25:20.991 I mean, do you have a good sense in the task force that, for example, if British cycling were to implement all those recommendations, we would have a vibrant commercial environment for domestic road racing? 00:25:21.573 --> 00:25:22.375 These are tough questions. 00:25:22.375 --> 00:25:22.996 Good on you, denny. 00:25:22.996 --> 00:25:30.109 Yeah, yeah, I definitely think we've moved in the right direction. 00:25:30.109 --> 00:25:32.737 Yeah, I tell you what, though? 00:25:32.737

--> 00:25:43.693 This is, these problems and I kind of touched on the very, very beginning in terms of cost, it's almost like it's bigger than bigger than British cycling, it's bigger than the sport of cycling. 00:25:43.693 --> 00:26:11.664 Rather, you know, if the global economy takes a turn stuff stock market, the war in the Ukraine, you know things like that if all of that sort of like takes a turn, for example yeah, I mean, these things I'm starting to realise in my other role is politics, you know, such like a profound effect on smaller things, if you like. 00:26:11.664 --> 00:26:14.464 And all of that stuff is somewhat outside of our control. 00:26:15.548 --> 00:26:26.022 And thinking about this early when I was having my breakfast, you know, I think a lot of the organisers struggle with is cost right now. 00:26:26.022 --> 00:26:26.625 You know the cost of policing. 00:26:26.625 --> 00:26:33.958 It's been a big issue and it's been relevant throughout the task force cost of policing. 00:26:33.958 --> 00:26:39.001 But I'm like, well, let's think about, I mean, why is that? 00:26:39.001 --> 00:26:48.444 There's more cars on the road, there's more, you know, we have a, like it or not, we have system and process and red tape in 2024. 00:26:48.444 --> 00:26:51.265 And we also have massive safety concerns. 00:26:51.265 --> 00:26:58.204 So you can see these are almost like two ends of a sea, so it's very hard to bring costs down for the competitor. 00:26:58.204 --> 00:27:02.585 You know, when there's more traffic on the road than ever, more need for us to keep these things safe. 00:27:04.613 --> 00:27:06.644 Policing is an interesting one because I think, as you say, costs is a. 00:27:06.644 --> 00:27:17.484 As you said right from the outset, costs is one of the biggest issues that domestic road racing faces and I understand that many of those issues are to some extent beyond the will, go beyond cycling itself. 00:27:17.484 --> 00:27:28.061 But on policing, for example, my understanding is that that can be quite a significant cost at national level in particular where you've got, you know, rolling road closures and so on. 00:27:28.061 --> 00:27:41.825 It's interesting and I know Mick Bennett mentioned this last year after the tour of Britain saying you know, in Spain for the Welter, the Welter organisers don't have to spend a penny on race organisers, sorry, on police costs, because the government covers it all. 00:27:41.825 --> 00:27:59.962 I mean, had you looked at ways in which policing costs could be reduced, or whether even there's a role for, say, british cycling to start lobbying government, start lobbying MPs, to see whether we could take a different approach to kind of national treasures, you know, national tours and policing costs, for example. 00:27:59.982 --> 00:28:15.059 Yeah, yeah you bang on and this is something that we brought up the the Welter did indeed cost absolutely nothing for three weeks and I believe the tour of Britain it

was either five or six hundred thousand pounds to police that for a week, and that kind of shows what you're up against. 00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:33.896 Yeah, I guess we wanted to make sure these recommendations were specific to elite road racing, but yeah, that has been discussed and you know, I guess ultimately, if we are going to tackle that, that's a job for somebody above my station to go down and talk about in Westminster. 00:28:33.896 --> 00:28:37.144 But you know that's that's difficult. 00:28:37.144 --> 00:28:42.365 I mean, let's not forget that there was a plan for the motorist launched by our Prime Minister not too long ago. 00:28:42.365 --> 00:28:45.237 So, yeah, let's talk about politics. 00:28:46.280 --> 00:28:52.221 Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah obviously there are massive cultural and political barriers to to these things. 00:28:52.221 --> 00:28:55.615 But on the other hand, I guess if you don't lobby you'll never get change. 00:28:55.615 --> 00:29:00.395 And it's interesting that you mentioned sorry to keep asking difficult questions. 00:29:00.395 --> 00:29:06.065 You mentioned policing specifically and yeah, I don't think there's any mention of policing in the recommendations. 00:29:06.065 --> 00:29:09.433 So I just, you know, wonder whether you just felt that that was. 00:29:09.433 --> 00:29:16.944 You know, maybe it's just incorporated in one of the recommendations you got all the way whether you felt because of those, the bigger picture is just not something that. 00:29:17.066 --> 00:29:36.522 Oh no, I mean, cost was absolutely relevant, and I think it's back to that point about trying to make these recommendations attainable and realistic and we can actually hold British cycling accountable to them if that makes sense, and so something like this central procurement function. 00:29:36.522 --> 00:29:38.611 I think that might be the first recommendation. 00:29:38.611 --> 00:29:48.910 Is this idea that you know whilst going down to Westminster ain't something that Ed Clancy is capable of and articulate in a conversation with Rishi Sunak today? 00:29:50.795 --> 00:29:51.717 Don't do yourself down it. 00:29:56.573 --> 00:30:11.770 But what we can do is like, say, british cycling, let's have this, let's have workshops of best practice, let's work out who can do the cheapest barriers, let's work out what circuits require the least amount of policing, the least amounts of marshalling, and let's try and work with what we've got. 00:30:11.770 --> 00:30:24.715 In that sense, and by doing that, you know, we might not be able to change national policy, but at least we can try and control the controllables and bring costs down with what we know. 00:30:24.715 --> 00:30:26.579 Yeah, which that makes sense, yeah. 00:30:27.526 --> 00:30:33.105 It does, does, does, and I mean some of these, as I mentioned earlier, some of the recommendations. 00:30:33.105 --> 00:30:43.476 They obviously, I guess, require British cycling to go away and have a think or do another review, or their own print or interpretation to some extent. 00:30:43.476 --> 00:30:52.696 We haven't touched on this in the interview, but you obviously undertook a very extensive consultation process as part of the task force, which I'm not sure you initially intended to do. 00:30:52.696 --> 00:31:15.096 But either way, and I know it's been a very, very intense process for you all, you know you've all given up your free time to do this, so it must have been hard as well, but you must have generated so many different ideas that, in 16 recommendations, so many specific things that that British likely could potentially go away with and do things with them. 00:31:15.096 --> 00:31:34.238 Yeah, are you confident that, given how extensive the consultation was and how many specific ideas and recommendations you must have come up with beyond the kind of the overarching, these overarching 16 recommendations that British cycling has, will take that into account as it responds to this task force report? 00:31:36.067 --> 00:31:45.321 Yeah, you're right, we could have had hundreds, if not thousands, of like in a real sort of like specific recommendations and sort of like details on things. 00:31:45.321 --> 00:31:57.365 I guess, for the sake of In terms of like, outwardly facing recommendations, there's 16. 00:31:57.365 --> 00:32:02.365 In terms of like what we're giving over to British cycling, this 40. 00:32:02.365 --> 00:32:05.721 And I, you know, for public consumption. 00:32:05.721 --> 00:32:12.273 It just made sense that you know very, very few people are going to sort of like read all 40 in detail. 00:32:12.273 --> 00:32:19.365 But we tried to make sure the essence of all 40 of those were condensed and I spent a lot of time making sure they were condensed in this final 16. 00:32:19.365 --> 00:32:25.921 So I think everything is in there and I tell you what. 00:32:25.921 --> 00:32:26.663 Talk about a wicked solution. 00:32:29.270 --> 00:32:33.285 Like we really had to look at like the specific elite domestic road race scene. 00:32:33.285 --> 00:32:54.000 I, the circuit series, the road series 1.2 is 1.1 tour of Britain's, and because you could go down a massive great wormhole about the National bees, you phrasing the part that that plays in terms of its long term success. 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:58.519 But you know it kind of came to the conclusion that, yeah, that's going to have a bearing on it, 100% it is, but that's another task force in itself. 00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:09.471 So, yeah, we really had to kind of stick to stick to the mandate, if you like, and just keep it specific, but 100%. 00:33:09.471 --> 00:33:10.479 This is a big beast of a problem. 00:33:14.951 --> 00:33:19.578 Yeah, I mean I, yeah, I wondered how you got on with sticking to the mandate, given the fact that it is so narrow. 00:33:19.578 --> 00:33:21.040 But everything's interconnected, isn't it? 00:33:21.040 --> 00:33:25.932 As you say, from right down from, you know,

youth racing through to big national tours. 00:33:25.932 --> 00:33:39.873 And you know I was interviewing Seb Otley from who's kind of running the Portsdown Classic or the Persepedal it was called before and he was saying what a massive jump it would be for him to organise a national road race from National Bee. 00:33:39.873 --> 00:33:49.365 But obviously that feels relevant because ultimately, I guess you've identified race organisers as, and succession planning as, really critical. 00:33:49.365 --> 00:33:52.997 So we want more people to come forward and organise national road racing. 00:33:52.997 --> 00:33:54.087 We don't want them to feel there. 00:33:54.087 --> 00:33:58.325 You know somebody like Seb Otley who's saved the Persepedal and putting on some great races. 00:33:59.308 --> 00:34:03.365 You kind of want them to feel that they want to put on races at the national level beyond, don't you? 00:34:03.664 --> 00:34:04.246 100%. 00:34:04.246 --> 00:34:06.348 I tell you what I know, seb. 00:34:06.348 --> 00:34:15.822 I did one of his races on a motor racing circuit in Goodwood last year, and I mean he's a perfect example of like what we were crying out for. 00:34:15.822 --> 00:34:18.840 Like you know, young, ambitious lads that love the sport. 00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:28.516 He loves racing his bike and, like you said, he's recently grabbed hold of what was Persepedal's race and he's renamed it the Portsmouth Classic. 00:34:28.516 --> 00:34:31.440 Now, right, portsdown Classic, portsdown Classic? 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:36.494 Yeah, I saw an article. 00:34:36.514 --> 00:34:37.958 I tell you what I bet it was your article. 00:34:39.188 --> 00:34:40.432 He's looked at the course, hasn't he? 00:34:41.465 --> 00:34:43.211 And he sort of said like how can we make it cheaper? 00:34:43.211 --> 00:34:46.364 And like you know what route can they take where they're going to, like, cook down the marshals and things like that. 00:34:46.364 --> 00:34:52.195 And you know, whilst it's, you know everyone will consider it a shame that. 00:34:52.195 --> 00:34:55.018 All right, you know we considered that you had to do that to change the course to. 00:34:55.018 --> 00:34:56.362 Maybe that's just what we've got to play with. 00:34:56.362 --> 00:35:11.364 We've got to play the hand we dealt for now and you know, hopefully, you know, if the economy or whatever it turns and it is an event can build a bit of momentum, somebody will come along and give him 50, 60 grand in a year or two time and we can be like here we go. 00:35:11.385 --> 00:35:12.206 You know what I mean. 00:35:12.206 --> 00:35:14.650 You can take your course where you want, he's got the finances for that. 00:35:14.650 --> 00:35:23.021 But yeah, I think Seb's great at sort of playing the hand that's been dealt and yeah, he's a great example of what we need. 00:35:23.021 --> 00:35:23.364 So good on him. 00:35:25.226 --> 00:35:42.842 Do you feel like there's enough in that, in the recommendations and what

you hope British cycling will go away and do, to say, you know, get, give Seb Oughtley or James Hawkins or whatever it is who organized races out there at the national B level, to think, actually, do you know what? 00:35:42.842 --> 00:35:48.157 I'm going to give it a go, I'm going to put on a national road series race because it feels like it's a massive jump at the moment. 00:35:48.157 --> 00:35:50.184 What in the what in the report do you think will make a difference? 00:35:50.204 --> 00:35:55.291 to start, We've got this idea where we want succession for event organizers. 00:35:55.291 --> 00:35:57.614 I mean I hope this doesn't offend anyone but it's. 00:35:57.614 --> 00:36:00.559 I think it's fair to say it generally speaking. 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:07.233 It's like an ageing population and you know again the expenses of offending someone. 00:36:07.233 --> 00:36:29.532 If you speak to someone like John Eritie, you know I love him and know him well over the years and he's got such a bank and wealth of knowledge, for example, and you know if we need that in a sort of race organizer form, we've got to make sure that knowledge isn't lost and there's like succession planning, there's best practice that they will know. 00:36:29.532 --> 00:36:37.364 You know over decades of trial and error and eventually success, that we've got to make sure doesn't leave the building. 00:36:37.364 --> 00:36:41.190 So we've given British cycling the task of that. 00:36:41.190 --> 00:37:01.557 So I do hope and they know that's important, they know that this information isn't lost and you know this kind of yeah say again, like the ageing population of the event organizers doesn't go, but there is a bit of hope there's. 00:37:01.577 --> 00:37:03.344 This Yonkbonk crew as well in Sheffield isn't there. 00:37:03.344 --> 00:37:05.768 And I tell you what I did want to. 00:37:05.768 --> 00:37:10.896 Well, I stood and watched one of their races just in my backyard, pretty much in home furflash year. 00:37:10.896 --> 00:37:13.880 And yeah, james Hawkins and his pal. 00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:16.110 They're really going at it and there is hope. 00:37:16.110 --> 00:37:24.052 There is fresh blood coming through and I may just like support from me. 00:37:24.052 --> 00:37:33.121 Ain't going to make it happen, but I sincerely hope that they feel valued and they're passionate enough about it to hang in there, you know, until time's turn for the bear. 00:37:33.385 --> 00:37:35.391 Yeah, I saw your social media about that. 00:37:35.391 --> 00:37:37.559 It was great to see you on the side of the road for that event. 00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:39.244 And he's yeah, he's a real inspiration to me. 00:37:39.244 --> 00:37:43.170 James, I think we did an interview with him and actually he'd actually. 00:37:43.170 --> 00:37:54.304 So he got into road racing because of well, started organizing road races because he read an interview we did with Chris Lawrence, who's obviously on the task force, who said he said you know, people should stop whining about the lack of races. 00:37:54.304 --> 00:37:57.414 Just, if you're frustrated with it, just get up and do it. 00:37:57.414 --> 00:38:01.364 And James thought well, actually, I'll get up and do it, I'll organize a race and that, and that's how it all started. 00:38:01.364 --> 00:38:02.867 Good on it. 00:38:02.867 --> 00:38:04.429 I think it's an incredible inspiration. 00:38:04.670 --> 00:38:08.195 Despite the fact I've been in and around the scene for bloody decades myself. 00:38:08.195 --> 00:38:17.775 You know, if I was going to put a race on tomorrow, I wouldn't know where to start, and that, you know, is a big part of the reason we want them to have like a best practice playbook. 00:38:17.775 --> 00:38:25.110 You know, it's just a document that says like, well, this is who you approach, this is how you approach it, this is what a course looked like. 00:38:25.110 --> 00:38:28.014 There's easy to marshal, difficult to marshal, and so on. 00:38:28.014 --> 00:38:33.961 And you know, whilst that isn't the entire solution, you know that's part of it as well. 00:38:33.961 --> 00:38:41.496 So, yeah, like I said, there's no silver bullet, but we've tried to get everything in there that we think is going to nudge it in the right direction. 00:38:42.739 --> 00:38:43.679 Yeah, yeah. 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:45.489 Well, let's wrap it up in a minute. 00:38:45.489 --> 00:39:00.202 But I mean, just out of all those recommendations and everything you've got there, are there any that stand out for you, any that you think that you know absolutely must be implemented with great urgency, or ones that are more important than others? 00:39:00.364 --> 00:39:11.364 Yeah, this is pretty topical and the Tour of Britain goes ahead, the women's Tour of Britain as well, and yeah, we've put that as quite a clear recommendation that British cycling does everything in their power to ensure that they happen. 00:39:11.364 --> 00:39:13.007 I think that's really important. 00:39:13.007 --> 00:39:20.420 And you know we've lost races, big races, tour of Yorkshire and so on, and you know, being a Yorkshire man, that's been a shame. 00:39:20.420 --> 00:39:24.509 Obviously you know sweet spots struggled. 00:39:24.509 --> 00:39:35.610 But I think if we can keep the Tour of Britain and the women's Tour of Britain like, yeah, you know, that'd be nice, that'd be something to rejoice and celebrate. 00:39:35.610 --> 00:39:42.050 So I guess that's one for the road racing, let's talk about one for the circuit racing. 00:39:42.251 --> 00:40:19.358 I think this not sure if I can articulate this as well as I'd hoped, but this idea that give it a go yeah, it's got to be about more than bike racing If we could have events that have community events, food stores, vip areas and perhaps even more importantly, like a franchising package, in the same way that if you go to McDonald's, you kind of know what you're getting, right, you've got the same

golden arches on the tin, you've got to give or take the same products inside, and I think that'll make it easier to sell. 00:40:19.358 --> 00:40:29.364 I think it'll make it commercially more successful and I think it'd be much easier for the local authorities to absorb that hit if they're like, wow, the kids can have a go here and they can get on the course as community events. 00:40:29.364 --> 00:40:41.849 It's an event, it's not just A load of people turning up on bikes for an hour or two and taking off, and that is what I really hope will, you know, get a bit of buzz about the circuit series. 00:40:44.202 --> 00:41:02.753 Yeah, it was interesting, isn't it, that you what look at the circuit series and there is a real Variety, I guess is the best way to put it, in terms of the way they're attended and the kind of engagement of the public and and I know that In some places it's easy you know, somebody was somewhere like Otley where there is huge heritage. 00:41:02.753 --> 00:41:07.603 That race has been a firm favorite for a long time, but I guess that's that's. 00:41:07.603 --> 00:41:16.528 That's the kind of thing you seem to be hinting at, kind of you know Something where it is a big event, everybody in the town's looking forward to it, everyone comes down for just a good, good evening out. 00:41:16.528 --> 00:41:19.739 Yeah, not because it doesn't matter whether you like bike racing or not. 00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:21.184 Exactly yeah, and I tell you what. 00:41:21.184 --> 00:41:24.193 I've been doing a bit of working around local authorities recently. 00:41:24.193 --> 00:41:30.559 They like this idea of legacy, so you know what lasting impact is it gonna have on the area? 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:35.219 Like, is there, it is, they're gonna be more people riding to and from work because of this race. 00:41:35.219 --> 00:41:42.579 Is they're gonna be more kids that are interested in doing the bike ability session at school next week because of this, that legacy piece. 00:41:42.579 --> 00:41:53.625 So like, not just making a great race but making it a great Public event as well, it's gonna have a lasting legacy Going forward. 00:41:53.625 --> 00:41:55.250 That that's what's gonna be a sell to them. 00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:58.563 Yeah, yeah, that's great. 00:41:58.563 --> 00:42:05.021 I mean, look, be great to see more events like that and hopefully, look, more local authorities kind of Getting on board. 00:42:05.021 --> 00:42:08.588 I know, as you said earlier, it's a difficult financial environment to listen. 00:42:08.588 --> 00:42:20.983 Ed, I could talk to you for hours about this because I'm such a geek and I would have been one of those people that would have read all 40 recommendations and a whole lot more if I, if I had them. 00:42:20.983 --> 00:42:30.579 But but I know that the the task force report is Primarily directed at British cycling and things that British cycling can do as a governing body. 00:42:30.579 --> 00:42:39.925 But you know, I'm aware that it's not just up to British cycling to turn the ship around and To help make progress. 00:42:39.925 --> 00:42:42.070 I mean, do you get a sense of what we could all do? 00:42:42.070 --> 00:42:47.882 As you know, fans of racing, riders, teams, the media, I mean are there. 00:42:47.882 --> 00:42:59.094 Did you come away with from the task force of kind of what else needs to be done outside of British cycling, what we can all do to to help create a more vibrant domestic road scene? 00:42:59.114 --> 00:43:06.106 I Tell you, I asked a brilliant question, man, because it's human nature, isn't it? 00:43:06.106 --> 00:43:21.949 You know, when times are tough, like it's like an automatic response, like people tend to want to blame someone or something, and I Think naturally that kind of falls to the governing body, that what British cycling doing about this? 00:43:21.949 --> 00:43:22.510 What British cycling? 00:43:22.530 --> 00:43:31.657 doing about this and you know I don't work in there, I'm not an employee in there or anything, and but I do see on a day-to-day basis. 00:43:31.657 --> 00:43:35.976 Like you know, they're stretched, they're trying really hard to to do things as well. 00:43:35.976 --> 00:43:40.228 To answer your question, what can we all do? 00:43:40.228 --> 00:43:42.469 I Tell you what we can. 00:43:42.469 --> 00:43:43.619 We can speak about it. 00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:46.619 We can promote it on social media in a positive light. 00:43:46.619 --> 00:43:50.552 You know we can have positive conversations about the road racing scene. 00:43:50.552 --> 00:43:55.001 You know when Just little things. 00:43:55.001 --> 00:44:01.634 You know there is political and public backlash to road racing road closures, town center events. 00:44:01.634 --> 00:44:07.108 You know if anyone can Articulate why this is great. 00:44:07.108 --> 00:44:14.431 You know why it's good for the public, wise, is good for our mental and physical health, why this reduces the burden on the NHS, whatever it is. 00:44:14.431 --> 00:44:22.106 Just try and paint cycling and road racing in a Positive way, in a positive light. 00:44:22.106 --> 00:44:25.510 You know we can all play a part in that and that costs nothing. 00:44:28.121 --> 00:44:28.702 Very well said. 00:44:28.702 --> 00:44:33.239 Well, just get down to Downing Street, ed, and say that's a to Rishi Sunak. 00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:43.726 I Mean, having said that, obviously it's not all down to British cycling, but these are recommendations targeted to British cycling. 00:44:43.726 --> 00:44:47.786 Fine, finally, I just want to talk to you about Kind of holding them to account. 00:44:47.786 --> 00:45:01.153 I mean, do you get a sense of, you know, how British cycling will be held to account, how we can Monitor and make sure that they go away and and implement these, these actions effectively? 00:45:02.277 --> 00:45:03.965 and Then the short answer is no really. 00:45:03.965 --> 00:45:07.103 It's kind of it's up to them. 00:45:07.103 --> 00:45:30.135 They've got the recommendations and the the powers will have to sort of say, right, well, these are the ones we've got budget for, this is our much resource and time and money we're gonna, we're prepared to spend on this, and I dare say they won't hit all 16 in year one, because it take a lot of time, take a lot of people, take a lot of money. 00:45:30.135 --> 00:45:35.170 I Can't speak for them, you know. 00:45:35.170 --> 00:45:36.213 I can only. 00:45:36.213 --> 00:45:50.800 I Can only say what I've said already, really, which is I don't think John Dutton would have even approached me, approaches conversation, and I think the fact that he's he could have gone where the energy is, if you like, you could have gone elsewhere. 00:45:50.800 --> 00:46:00.670 Let's put some money behind gravel racing, let's put some thought behind that, or Zwift, whatever it is, but he hasn't, and so hopefully, yeah, things will start moving. 00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:03.181 Smashing. 00:46:03.181 --> 00:46:15.079 Well, it's absolute honor to have you on the podcast, ed and and and also really appreciate no, I think everyone should, no matter what you think of the recommendations out there. 00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:20.000 I think we all appreciate all the time and effort You've all put in all the evenings, kind of I. 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.980 For my understanding it was a very intense process, a bit of a poison chalice in a way. 00:46:24.980 --> 00:46:34.943 You know such a complex thing, but but so thank you for kind of taking the time to do that and let's hope, as you say, that pretty cycling, take action. 00:46:35.565 --> 00:46:39.297 No worries, thanks, danny, and thanks for having me on the pods and I'm glad you've kicked it off again. 00:46:39.297 --> 00:46:40.260 Good on you, thank you. 00:46:50.373 --> 00:46:53.076 Thank you for listening to the British Continental podcast. 00:46:53.076 --> 00:47:00.503 Find out more news and views about domestic road racing on wwwTheBritishContinentalcouk.