บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Roxie Jane Hunt: Sacred Work, Sustainable Careers, and 50 Years(!) of Combined Wisdom

work that we do asks a lot of us sustainability and taking care of ourselves is so important. I'm you, it's such a good one. ⁓ Let's into it. ⁓ Roxy, thank so much for joining us and being here. Roxie Hunt: what was really happening in those sessions with people who would come in for a haircut. And it felt like I had noticed so much, like of course people come in because they want a trim or they want a cut or they want a transformation. There's like the physical thing that's happening there, which is important and valuable. Being as hair is like our number one kind of signifier of our identity. know, like hair is big. It's a big deal for people. So they come in, they trust us, they sit in their chair. They want something, we do our best to give it to them. And then there's also so many other things that are happening there. There's the personal connection, there's the conversation, there's the kind of sharing of life and oftentimes sharing of things that maybe don't get shared other places. And I was just starting to kind of experience my own career as being someone who carried the craft. and art of hairstyling and also the work of a priestess, which is someone who serves a community in a sense of you go and you visit a priestess to share the truth of what's happening and maybe you get some counsel and maybe you get some witnessing and some support and some But like this exchange of truth that's happening and like this role of witnessing. you know, at the time, ⁓ think at that time I had a baby and two kids. So I had three at home and I was trying to balance my own career working behind the chair with people and also mothering. and many other things too. And I was just starting to really get a sense of like, okay, I'm a self-employed person. I have to be able to support myself in a really expensive city and my family, keep food on the table. I have to be able to love what I do if I'm gonna play this role. I'm not just giving trims here. ⁓ like ⁓ Sarah Beck: and Roxie Hunt: I'm creating a space for people to come and be who they are and become who they want to be. if I'm really going to be able to work the way I want to work, which is to not ever be in a hurry, I don't ever want someone in my chair to feel rushed. That's the number one thing. Like I don't double book. I never did just like come and sit and we will stretch out time for you. You know, I do a haircut in an hour and a half, but I try and make it feel as lengthy as possible. So I knew I had to work. I didn't want to work fast. And I only had a very limited amount of time to be able to be working behind the chair. So I had to, I was really reckoning with like, how do I value my own time in a way that supports me to keep loving what I do and not feeling burned out when my, at the end of the day, cutting hair when my kids get home. I want to still be available for them. So it just kind of created this whole, was like a puzzle. I just had to like look at the numbers and look at the timing

and be like, okay, this is how I need to value my time at this much per hour to continue to love what I do. And then within that time, then it was like, so then how do I, if I'm valuing it at this number, how do I make this particular, how do I make each service feel really valuable to the person who's receiving it and also like so that at the end of it I can walk away and feel great. I mean it was really that, you know, I was like looking at how do I want to feel and then how do I create this sort of services and the kind of work life that I want to match that basically so I can then be a mother and not burn out. Sarah Beck: you I think what you just said was so ⁓ counter to what we had been trained ⁓ with is do I want to feel after I give a haircut versus how is the person all, it's always based how I was trained, how the person feels in your chair, not ever really considering our own feelings. And so I think that's a really beautiful way to say that and look at that. Roxie Hunt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sarah Beck: And so then you have all of this, you're like figuring out how do I re-enter doing what I love while still being able to sustain my own wellbeing and being a mother and many other things outside of work. So then what made you decide like, this feels so good, I want to share it with people or what made you decide that you wanted to be able to give back to our community in that way. Roxie Hunt: think ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ the work to figure out what I needed to be able to feel that full cup to serve from, and by the way, I have to mention my grandma, Susie, always told me, she was a mother of three as well, she always says, you have to fill your own cup first, no matter what. You fill your own cup first, you fill up your own plate first, you make yourself the best plate, and then everything feeds from that. Sarah Beck: Yeah. Roxie Hunt: So she told me that starting when I was young, that, I have to thank her for teaching, just instilling that as a value. Because it is counterintuitive, but also like, it is also sustainable. And I think it's like as it should be as a woman. I wanna be fully full to be able to give, so I can give and give and give and stay full myself. Sarah Beck: Yeah. I'm sorry. Roxie Hunt: ⁓ get that message very often, but she snuck it in. She snuck it in. ⁓ repeat question one more time. Sarah Beck: good thing, because don't get that message very often. what was going on with hairstylists? Did you see other hairstylists burning out and were you like, this is, hey, look, I've kind of figured some of them out. Let me teach you guys. Roxie Hunt: ⁓ Okay. Yeah, so I think what made me want to work with hairstylists, it was two things. The first thing was I figured it out for myself and it started working, was ⁓ this feels much better. I wish someone would have taught me this. I wish I have had someone to teach me all this and just share it with me so that I wouldn't have taken me so long to figure it out. So that was the first thing. It's just

like, I have a responsibility now. to share what I can in hopes that it will bring the same sort of relief and kind of, sustainability is a part of it to be able to, I think of sustainability as being like the opposite of burnout, right? When we're able to sustain what it is we're doing. So that was a part of it, was like just feeling a personal responsibility and also having a lot of. I have hairstylists in my life who I love. mean, it's a real, I feel like family in a certain kind of way with other hairstylists. And like, I have always felt as long as I've been in this work, I have sort of felt like my role here is to... figure out ways of making the conditions of our lives better. Because I have seen so much in salons that I do not agree with. And I have seen so many people giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. Like I just, I've seen it in some of the most creative and tender, wonderful people. You know what I mean? So I felt that like, ⁓ I really want to bring whatever I can. And then another part of it was that I was about probably two, maybe three years into into a role as a teacher with hairstylists and I was teaching creative color and was teaching creative braiding. was sort of teaching all of these ways of kind of stepping out of the box creatively to hairdressers and I found through that experience not only my voice, which was very, ⁓ was very helpful. because prior to that I didn't feel confident to share my voice. didn't think it was of value, I was given an opportunity by Jane Matthews. Thank you, Jane. ⁓ About probably years ago, she asked me to come to Edo and teach creative color. And I was like, well, I'm not a teacher, ⁓ so but thanks for asking. And she's like, well, just come and show us. Like you just, all you have to do is just show us how you're doing it. And it was like a huge leap of faith for me. ⁓ And I just went and I had my suitcase full of colors and swatches and I just showed people what I was doing and having fun. I'd just been messing around creatively on my own on swatches of hair, creative painting with all kinds of colors and bringing fine art skills. Just really having fun. But it gave me an opportunity to learn how to speak and share from a place of like... I just didn't want to feel like I'm coming in as an authority. I just wanted to be like, I'm coming in as someone who, like you, has been doing this work and wants it to feel good and wants it to be fun and creative. So I was already sort primed ⁓ to what I had been learning because I had practiced at it with my teaching in salons. And ⁓ at that I... Like my social media, I'd had some things happen that had kind of like, I had a lot of people listening. I had a lot of followers, followers on Instagram, just people who were interested in what I was doing. And so I guess part of it too was just like, ⁓ there's a platform here. I'm speaking to something and people are listening and it's having an impact on this industry as a whole,

which is what I really, really want. So what do I really, really want to say? So the Alchemy of Change was sort of a distillation of what I had learned 20 years behind the chair, three to four years teaching, and then also just in all the other parts of my life, kind of everything I wanted to bring in that felt the most ⁓ impactful and potent. So that's what the Alchemy of Change was for me. It was like all the most important things. that I had found that had worked for me to be able to create a workflow and a clientele and just a business work-life model that was really working for me. And it really worked really well. It really worked well. Sarah Beck: I think one of the things that I loved about your class was how you phrased things and saw things in a way that ⁓ you know, that was a while ago, right? And luckily there has been some change in our industry since then, but, know, I think you worded things in such a way that felt so, made me feel so seen as a hairstylist and as a creative and as an empath. It's like, you can be all those things. You can do all those things while maintaining your own ⁓ sustainability, as you said. And one of the things, that you said that really stuck with me. And it was something that I had always sort of felt but never quite named it or could articulate it and could like sit with it in some ways, which is that our work is sacred. And it... Like I said, I had felt this sort of thing that was happening. But when you said it and then when I watched you perform this haircut and you sat down with this person and really you're seeing them for who they are. And I remember you said, what is it that you want for your life with this haircut? And I was really taken aback, like, yes, that is what we're doing. And you just use these words that I had never experienced before. And it just made me feel really seen. And now I do take that word and that energy very seriously when I'm performing haircuts. does feel very sacred, especially when there's transition in life and Roxie Hunt: Mm-hmm. Sarah Beck: ⁓ when you're able to have this sort of transformation, not only physically with their hair, but also like have this internal conversation as well. So ⁓ do you still believe that our work is sacred? And what does that sacredness look like for you honoring that in practical ways for you behind the chair? Roxie Hunt: ⁓ my god, so many ways. mean, absolutely our work is so sacred and I only feel that more every day that I do it. And it's changed for me over time. I think there's so many ways. Sarah Beck: Mm. Roxie Hunt: I guess I'll speak to the way that I feel now at this phase of life that the work of a hairstylist is sacred is that now it feels like what my role is is to create a little community resource center where people can not only come ⁓ share what's true for them ⁓ be... ⁓ speak honestly to what they're wanting to cut away from their life and we cut that out of their hair and we speak about the kind of what they're calling in and we use that in the consultation to decide what's the haircut that's going to help kind of match whatever it is that you're wanting to step into. So it's a sacred place for people to come and transform themselves in the direction that they want to go in. It's a sacred place for people to come and share the truth of whatever it is they're going through or who they are and to be in, just to be witnessed by someone who's not there to judge them at all, but just to be with them. there's the sacredness of touch. And I think this more and more too, like this part becomes more important is not the fact that I'm doing their hair, but just the fact that there's touch happening. and there's trust and there's agreement about what's happening. And there's also, you know, the inner work of some people come in and they wanna, they have a lot to say, they're going through a lot. Sometimes people don't wanna say anything. So it's sacred, it's sacred in the sense that in my practice, I create a space for people to have choice. And maybe that's the biggest thing right now, honestly, is like, you come in here and you get to choose how you want this to feel, how you want to look at the end, how you want me to brush your hair, if you want me to use scented things on you or not, maybe we're gonna talk, maybe you just wanna be silent and I will just consult and we'll figure out what's happening and then I will just do your hair and you can gaze out the window. But it's a place where people can come and practice making the choices that they want and that feels Like I'm, I feel that in my body when I talk about it because I think we're in a time right now when there's so much is happening that is beyond our choice. And it feels like a constant barrage. And so to have a space where people can just come and be like, okay, for an hour, I just get to be here and like receive in the way that I want to. And I trust that it's not, you're not gonna do anything I'm not asking you to, you know, like that part of it feels. Sarah Beck: Mm. Roxie Hunt: feels really sacred to me. Sarah Beck: one thing that you said to me over the years is, ⁓ And I bring this up because I think a lot of hairstylists struggle with this, with feeling comfortable in silence. And ⁓ I remember you saying this and it's really stuck with me as well is that it takes a second for our nervous systems to sort of settle in because I think as hairstylists, we've been trained to, or we feel like we need to, especially sometimes as women. It's like, we need to fill that space. We need to make sure people are feeling okay. So we got to talk all the Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Sarah Beck: time and it's like to be able to just sit in in silence is sometimes tricky for us to learn. It is I think it is such a gift and I think especially right now. So big to be able to like sit in silence with someone and and give them a service and for me personally I feel. Roxie Hunt: ⁓ my god, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so big right now.

Sarah Beck: It doesn't feel more sacred, but it feels ⁓ like more intentional or something if there is quiet. And I notice that I slow my movements a little bit more and I'm just a little bit more present if there is some silence. Roxie Hunt: For sure. ⁓ my God, it's so, it's, can I just talk a little bit more about that? Okay. think to be able to sit in silence with people as a hairstylist has been one of the most, ⁓ of the most challenging edges of my life. ⁓ ⁓ been an intentional practice because it's become clear that it is what's needed sometimes. You know, sometimes, ⁓ Sarah Beck: Yes, please. Yes. Roxie Hunt: People just do not want to be in the words of whatever's happening. There's too much. I think about my clients now who are like the immigration lawyers, like the ones who are holding much and literally just need a place to come and be cared, intended ⁓ to without questions, without anything. ⁓ it's for them to be able to choose. that if they want. And so this practice came out of my training with the Wheel of Consent, but this was a couple years ago. I was like, okay, I know that I need to make it possible and available for my clients to just sit in quiet and receive. And I don't know how to say that yet. Like it still feels uncomfortable to even say the words of that. So I'm gonna just put a little bit of a sign on my mirror. And I just, am like using my mirror for magic so much by putting little signs on the mirror that prompt people, whether it's like, you know, we're sharing resources about ice or I have this little prompt that's like, if you would like a silent haircut, just ask and we'll just do your consult. We'll get clear on what's happening. And then I'll just do my thing and I'll do your hair and you can. look at the mirror, we'll point you out towards the window, you can close your eyes, whatever you want. And then, you know, if you wanna guide conversation, that's fine, but I, as the hairstylist, I'm just gonna be silent with you and just focus on what I'm doing. And so I had that up on my mirror for a year, I think, before someone finally was like, and people would read it, they'd sit in my chair and they'd be like, ooh, a silent, ooh, silent session. I mean, maybe sometime, but not now, you know. people, kinda got them used to it. And then I finally had someone come in and she had just been through a really big thing. Like it was fresh and new and she was like a loss and there was grief and she was just like, she was like, okay, I think I'm ready for the silent, you know, she's like finally kinda like ready to try that silent session. And so I was like, okay, we're gonna do it. And this is my first time too. So just so you know, I'm. Sarah Beck: Mm-hmm. Roxie Hunt: I'm gonna hold to it and I'm gonna be, you know, be in charge of my own experience here and you just relax and enjoy. And so I did the job and I cut her hair ⁓ it was an incredible haircut because I could focus so much on what I was doing. Like that part was

cool. ⁓ is to be like, wow, like the quality of the haircut actually is very different when I'm really just tending to that part. But the challenge and the activation in my body that was so present through that whole, just how much I wanted to just like, small talk, small talk, small. It was very, very, very, very, very hard that first time. And after it was done, she was like, thank you, that was just what I needed. And I was like, you're welcome. That was so freaking hard for me. And thank you for giving me the opportunity to practice it. So was like getting through that one. Sarah Beck: Yeah. Yeah. Roxie Hunt: And it almost is worth just putting a call out to your clients and being like, who wants a silent session? Because I need to practice. Who wants to be the first? Sarah Beck: Who wants to be the first? I love that you were honest with her about that, that you were like, yeah. Roxie Hunt: I had to be. I think there's like a level of truth and kind of intimacy that just comes from having, to go there with someone. And I just had to get through that first time. ⁓ it felt edgy. And I'm sure it will feel edgy for any hairstylist who does it for the first time. then ⁓ once you it, it's like, okay, this is now something that I can offer. And sometimes... ⁓ It's what people need and also then for me, since I've done it since then, and I can just be comfortable in it, because I kind of broke the ice. ⁓ It's really wonderful actually. it feels really respectful. It feels in some ways like I can really nerd out on the quality of the haircut differently, which is kind of fun. ⁓ you know, it's less work in some ways. ⁓ Sarah Beck: Yeah. for sure. Roxie Hunt: Although the presence is still there. It's not like I wasn't like going other places in my mind. I was right there with my attention was still there. It's a different kind of, a different kind of attention. Yeah. Sarah Beck: Yeah. One time, this was years ago, I had a client that was really, it's kind of same, like had just been through something horrific and she was very amped up. And I kind of was understanding at this point about sort of my own boundaries with how deep I will go and where there's like maybe a mental health professional is better for this situation. So I was like, you know, it's... Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Sarah Beck: It seems really intense. Would you feel comfortable if I put on a guided meditation? It might help you in this moment. And I did. It was like a 10 minute meditation and ⁓ she just closed her eyes and I did my work and I was quiet. And the entire energy of the space shifted. And, know, she at the end was like, thank you for that gift, you know, and, ⁓ Roxie Hunt: Hmmmm Take care. Sarah Beck: But we have to be able to have that first client be able to sit with the quiet. I think it's important to be able to learn how to do that. Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Yep. Sarah Beck: one thing that you talked about in the class was working rushed and you kind of mentioned that. And again, being

a hairstylist now for since, ⁓ my gosh, I think it's 25 years this year for me. That's wild. Really? No way. ⁓ my gosh. 25. That feels like, doesn't that feel like a big deal? Roxie Hunt: Me too. Yeah, same, same, Yeah. ⁓ big deal quarter of a century Sarah Beck: Gosh. ⁓ So you talked about working rushed and you know, think growing up in the early 2000s, it was always about squeezing in more clients and double booking and not taking a lunch so that, you know, we're making more money. There's more productivity. And so what happens to us? Do you believe when our work lives are in that constant state of urgency? Roxie Hunt: So much happens. mean, I know I'll just speak for my own experience. ⁓ I didn't enjoy it and it showed. I couldn't do a good job. I could do an okay job, but it was never quite the quality that I really wanted to give. It felt incomplete. felt, honestly, it disrespectful to me to like be with someone in that way and then just be like, okay, go, okay, bye, see you later. Someone else is gonna finish off, you know, like it just. Sarah Beck: Yeah. Yeah. Roxie Hunt: It didn't feel, I couldn't feel the humanity of it in a way that felt important to me. ⁓ And in my physical body, was really hard. I would get off work and come home and I'd have to be in a bath for two hours crying. And then I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. So it was having taken a toll on me. And I was also feeling like I had to escape. I was using alcohol, was using my phone, I was using all kinds of things just to try and come down from that speed of being. And it was not a good loop. It just was self-perpetuating, harmful, didn't feel good at all. And one of the first signs for me, I think I talked about this in the... Sarah Beck: Yeah. Roxie Hunt: class was like I noticed that I was holding my pee all the time. You know, that was my first sign is like, Whoa, what if I actually like went to the bathroom every time I felt the urge? What would change? So I started doing that. And I just I came out of this like, you know, 20 year long cycle of just like holding my bladder, so I could like do more and rush in between. when I started Sarah Beck: Yeah. Roxie Hunt: responding to that natural urge, everything just slowed down. I just had to. I was like, well, I guess I need to move at the speed of my bladder. So it was just like a funny little body thing like that that finally kind of put me back into touch with my own natural frequency. I just realized, and then when I had my third kid, my son, I was getting some really strong messages from the universe about like, you have to slow down. Like red light is blinking, you have to slow down. I was being shown in dreams, I was being shown by my body. It was like, it was one of those things where like if I didn't listen, it was gonna get bad, you know? So, so it. Sarah Beck: and Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's awareness there, which is huge. And I think when you say that, that we sometimes are so focused on when we're busy and hurried and rushed, and on top of that, we're multitasking in our brains, and we're holding space for people. We aren't aware of ourselves, let alone our body, right? And so I love that because to be aware, sometimes people aren't even aware that they have to pee because they're to crying. Yes, and so that is kind of a cool thing to be able to slow down and be like, wait, do I need to go to the bathroom? What am I feeling right now? So that's great awareness. It's a great tool to use to think about how full your bladder is, but then it has... Roxie Hunt: They don't even know. I wasn't, for 20 years I wasn't. Yeah. Sarah Beck: other ramifications positive. Roxie Hunt: So many came, that was like the first one, but then from there it was like all the other things kind of came back into alignment as I listened, you know, as I listened to them. Sarah Beck: Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. one, ⁓ so something really cool. I, I have like a notebook for hair stuff and then I have personal journals and I, I, I'm going to get emotional. I knew that your class was going to be really, ⁓ potent for me and personally. And so I realized I took my personal journal to your class and So I keep all my personal journals and so I dug it out before this interview. And I know, I mean, I am emotional just talking about it. ⁓ And so I wrote down several things. Which one was, what do you want this haircut to mean for you? ⁓ And then one thing that you said was share personal things only if it serves the client, not for our own catharsis. Roxie Hunt: ⁓ my god. ⁓ Yeah. Well. Sarah Beck: man, so I realized how much at the time when you said that it was like, ⁓ whoa. And it's something I'm aware of all the time now, but like back when I took this class with you, it was kind of a mirror for me to see how much I was really sort of processing with my own clients. And in the years since and having the Balanced Hairstylist, I get a lot of comments. from non-hairstylists saying, yes, I get why you're doing this and mental health for hairstylists is important, but in my experience, I feel like my hairstylist is emotionally dumping on me most of the time. And I think we can do that as hairstylists. I think it's easy for us to ⁓ process things with our clients, especially if we're verbal processors. ⁓ Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah Beck: So how can we communicate as hairstylists and know in the moment with a client, what is like real authentic communication and then what is oversharing? Roxie Hunt: Yeah, that's a really, really good question. it's going to be different for everybody. speak to my kind of like things I've done along the way to try and clarify. One thing was about, I don't know, five or six years ago, maybe I made it clear to my clients that I wanted them to ⁓ ask sharing something ⁓ traumatic. Sarah Beck: Mm-hmm. Roxie Hunt: because it was something that kept happening where someone, I'd be like cutting someone's hair with a razor and then like something would come

and it was, honestly it was, it made it hard for me to like deliver the haircut in the way I wanted because I have reactions. I get cold, I can get a little shaky. Like I wanted to be able to like stay in my center through the service. And so as a, you know, in, in, in service of that, just helping me stay in my center as the one who's serving you, just ask first if there's something traumatic that you need to share. Just ask so I can be like, ooh, maybe not now, let me finish your bangs, know, whatever it is, or like, no, I don't have capacity today, or just ask first. So it was kind of like training, teaching people how I wanted to be approached with that. And... And I have never, I would say I've never been the sort of hairstylist to like emotionally dump on clients. And I have seen so much of that happen in salons and I have felt like just like being next to someone when that's happening, it's always felt like, ⁓ like that doesn't feel like the right direction as the person who is serving. You know, then it feels like, I don't know, something about that didn't feel right to me, so I've always been a bit aware. Now, there are times though when I have something to share that is relevant to what they're saying that could possibly be supportive for them to hear. So then I'm just trying to like be in my own discernment around that. But always, I think a big part of it for me is like always, Keeping the awareness that I am serving them. I am serving you. You're paying me, I'm serving you. And if I'm dumping on you emotionally, then I'm asking you to serve me. And that's not what this is. But if a client, you know, there have been times where I've been like, well, sometimes a client will ask and they'll ask a lot of personal questions about me. Sarah Beck: Mmm. Yes. Roxie Hunt: And in that case, you know, I'm willing to share, there might be a point where I would steer the conversation in a new direction, but if they're asking me, then I will typically share my experience when it feels appropriate. ⁓ But I would wait for them to initiate that. Sarah Beck: love that you are asking your clients to ask for permission. think that sometimes clients are talking and things are just spewing out of their mouths and they're not even aware that they're sharing something traumatic. So I think... that idea of saying, you need to ask me. I would prefer if you ask me, if you're going to share something heavy and traumatic that you ask for permission first, because then it makes them aware. And then it gives you choice. I love, I love that we're talking about choice so much today. ⁓ Roxie Hunt: It's choice, it's about choice. It really is. And I don't think I've ever said no to someone who has asked if they can share something really tender or traumatic. But what I do do, because I think it's important to create a space. Not everyone has the capacity for it, but in my practice, it is important to me that I can hold a space for people to bring all of themselves. So

I do what I can to keep my capacity to where I can hold that, but I still require to be asked first because that gives me a chance to like take a breath. I put my roots down. have like energetic things that I do to protect myself from holding what isn't mine to hold. So I might take a breath. I might be like, okay, let's just pause for a second. I'm gonna go pee, I'll be right back, and then we can get into it. I do whatever I need to do to be able to receive so that it's not just kinda, because I've had so many experiences where I'm just like, ⁓ whoa, and then I haven't known because we're not taught. We're doing the work of therapist, as you know, but we're not really taught how to do it. We're not taught about confidentiality. We're not taught about any of these kind of master skills that a person who is getting their degree in. you know, person who's a therapist is gonna do. So I've had to just figure out along the way how to take care of myself to be able to hold something when it comes. And part of that care is asking to be, to have a choice. Sarah Beck: And I think too that something that I've realized that I have to, I'm like a very sensitive, emotional person and I have to process what's going on in my life outside of work. Because if I'm not doing my own work, if I'm not journaling or going to therapy or whatever it is that I need to process my own things in life, I am taking it into work. And I am like spilling it out. over to clients. And that's not, like you said, that's not fair. We are of service. And so when we're spilling our stuff, they are serving us. You know, it's a vice versa situation. Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Yep, 100%. The care, the... We need to have the space held for us so that we can fill space for others. It's essential. There's no way to avoid that. Sarah Beck: Absolutely. It's like if I see a therapist, I always ask them, are you, do you have a therapist? Because I think it's so important to be able to, like you said, just be able to do that work outside so you're not bringing it in. And we do have to take the time to work on ourselves so that we're not bringing it to our clients. Roxie Hunt: Yeah. ⁓ Yep. Sarah Beck: I don't know if you remember telling me this, but I told you that I wanted to create something for mental health for hairstylists and you said to me, in my experience, hairstylists don't want to take care of themselves. Do you still find that to be true? ⁓ what do you think is underneath this resistance? Roxie Hunt: Ooh, that's a good question. I think it's changed a lot. Yeah, I think it's changed a lot. think in the last five years, 10 years, but more so five years, I think we've been having more collective conversations around the importance of caring for ourselves. At the time that I was doing, at the time that I launched the Alchemy of Change, it still felt... Sarah Beck: Good. Yes. Roxie Hunt: hard to, you know, was like the razor shag haircut classes were like filling up with, you know, or like how to

use social media, like these classes, I could tell that the interest in the industry was in these other things. And it was hard to fill, it was hard to get people to pay to take a class to learn how to set up these other parts of their businesses. So I was really experiencing that as a person who had been for years trying to trying to support hairstylists taking care of themselves, just self care in general, and just kind of feeling like no one was listening to me. And I feel like it's, yeah, it's changed. And that's, I'm so glad because it's essential that it does. And what contributes to that? ⁓ I just think we're just really, I think hairstylists tend to be empathic, sensitive. creative people that maybe had a harder time in other school systems. And so already we're sort of like funneled into this like caregiving. And then I think that the industry itself and a lot of like, just a lot of the kind of systemic issues within the industry are really perpetuating. Sarah Beck: Yeah. Roxie Hunt: that we just keep over giving and over giving and giving and giving and giving. I think a big part of it is that it's a mostly, not most, mean mostly probably female dominated industry that's run entirely and financially by men, you know, in these major corporations. And yeah, it's just like all the shit that's alive in the rest of the world and causing havoc is very alive here too. And we're being asked as women and also as all genders of people, but we're being asked to be under our own capacities, again, emotionally. Sarah Beck: And I think people are realizing, thankfully, like you said, that the Shag classes and the social media classes, none of that matters. It matters if you're burning out and if you don't have the other side of it. Roxie Hunt: So. Sarah Beck: Thankfully. Roxie Hunt: When I said that to you, I hope it didn't discourage you. Okay, good. Okay, good, good. Okay, good. Sarah Beck: Oh no, it actually kind of fueled me. It was like, you're absolutely right. And that's why we need it, you know? Yeah. Roxie Hunt: That's why we need it. That's why we need it. Sarah Beck: I do want to talk about this just a little bit because I feel like, you know, you and I have 25 years this year of doing hair and we've both kind of had to figure out how to do hair differently to sustain us. So I do want to ask you about how you prioritize self-care because that is something important and I think it's something important to talk about because I think 95 % of my following as women and, and, you know, we are asked to do a lot of heavy lifting in our lives in general. And then if, if we are mothers on top of that, so ⁓ how do you prioritize self care? ⁓ And then I do want to talk to you about scheduling as well, like how you schedule your clients and things like that. So, and if that affects your mental health, you know, meeting a schedule, create, you know, around your mental health. Roxie Hunt: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Okay, so how do I make time for self

care? Well, I always have Grandma Suzy's words, you know, always. And she would have wanted everyone to have those words, especially the mothers. Always fill your cup first. that, think where I'm at now is that I know what to look for. Sarah Beck: Look her. Hmm. Roxie Hunt: when I'm not in alignment with my self-care. So I know if I start feeling resentment, that's the first clue. So if I'm feeling resentful of anybody or anything, then I go, okay, okay, I'm not taking care of something here that needs to be taken care of. I'm giving too much. you know, and then I look at where am I giving too much? Okay. Sarah Beck: Okay. Roxie Hunt: So it's like looking for the clue, being on alert for the clues that I'm not. And then when I'm not, then I have to check myself and I go back to, what do I know I need? Am I feeding and nourishing myself well? Not really. That's been very hard for me, honestly, especially in perimenopause. My body is changing and my needs for nourishment are totally different and I haven't figured it out. That's just real talk. So yeah, so I'm struggling with that. so things that I know that I need though, I have to get outside and I have to either walk or run or do something outside or I really will get really depressed. So I know that at least three days a week, I need to go outside and do something for an hour. I have a lake close by that I walk around. And how do I make time for that? Sarah Beck: Same, let me know when you do. Yeah, me too. Roxie Hunt: I just get the kids off to school and I go. So I do it in the morning. I just make sure it happens and that's just baseline. I have so little routines like that where I'm like, three days a week for sure. I'm gonna do my walk. I wake up in the morning. First thing I do is I take my vitamins. I drink a glass of water and I just do that. There's no question. So that's built in. I have a couple of little containers I've created with friends where we do like listening turns, where we just take turns like listening to the other person for an hour. I have a couple of those things set up and that really serves a lot of purposes for me. One of them is just sort of like as you and I were talking about, like I need to be able to have space held for me, you know, so. Sarah Beck: Yes. Roxie Hunt: So I do, I have a couple things like that that I do and I massage. And how do I work it into my life? I just prioritize it. I just know that at this point, because of what I know to be true that grandma told me, I cannot serve my family or my community if my cup is not at least part way full, ideally all the way full, not always all the way full. Sometimes quite empty, but never entirely empty. At least not yet. Knock on wood. You know what I mean? Sarah Beck: And so yeah, for sure. You're prioritizing it, it sounds like, constantly. And I think for people that aren't doing that, initially, I had to start like scheduling it in my calendar. Yes, yeah, yeah. Roxie Hunt: Constantly. ⁓ yeah, it's schedules, yeah. so it's all in, ⁓ everything in my calendar. Everything, ⁓ absolutely, self care, every walk, every appointment, all my listening turns, it's in my calendar two months ahead and so I know, ⁓ so know it'll happen and I even schedule time to not schedule anything. I know people don't like to hear that but it is, at this point with, Sarah Beck: It happens. Yes. Roxie Hunt: three kids at home and a couple different jobs, it's like, that's how we do it and because of it, I get free time where I don't have to do anything. You know what I mean? So definitely using the calendar. Sarah Beck: Yes. That is one thing too that I didn't even put in my notes, but that I walked away with from the alchemy of change is you recommended one day a month to do have a creative day where you're not doing hair. And that has been a game changer for me as far as my creativity goes. And it's like sometimes I'm, my daughter's into the ⁓ art, diamond art right now or whatever. Really? Roxie Hunt: Yeah. too! She just showed me last night her first little wand. I was like, ⁓ so cute! I didn't know that was... it's so cute! Sarah Beck: ⁓ it's so cute. My little ⁓ Virgo perfectionist daughter loves the tiny detailed things. And so whatever it is, it's something that it's not doing hair. Roxie Hunt: So cute. Perfect. Yeah. Sarah Beck: And I think something that I walked away with too ⁓ from this class was ⁓ being so aware of my ⁓ know, think, yes, yeah. So when you schedule your clients, it like really ⁓ specific? Do you make sure you have breaks in between? Do you make sure you have a lunch in the day? Like, how does that work for you? Roxie Hunt: Yeah, so when I came back into the salon after COVID, I started back one day a week. And I was thinking I'd do one day a week for a couple months, then I'd go to two, and then I'd make my way up to four probably. But ⁓ I started off at one day a week, an hour and a half for every haircut. I do a half hour trim. And I have Every two hours I have a 15 minute break. I've got a lunch in the middle. So I work one long day with a couple breaks in the middle there and also an hour long lunch. I just, know, I clients book online. They can book within these time slots. It's worked out really well. I almost never run late, which I love. I feel it feels spacious to have an hour and a half with each person. and then having a little break in between. I've noticed as I've gotten older in my career, in my work, but also in the rest of life, that I need a little space in between everything. I don't like those quick turnarounds, like going from work to straight home or client to client. I don't like it when one's coming in and one's going out. That just puts me totally off balance and I have a hard time even recovering. Sarah Beck: Mm-hmm. Roxie Hunt: So I like to make sure that there's spacious time for one person to leave and then I get to sit for a couple of minutes and then the next person arrives. And that flow really helps me stay

kind of grounded. Nervous system is like settled and right. And that's my day. So it feels spacious, but it's enough. And then I work, that's Mondays and then Tuesdays I work a half of that. Sarah Beck: Yes. Roxie Hunt: So I'm working, so I've made my way in five years from one day to one and a half. And I thought I'd be back at probably four by now, but I don't think I ever will work more than one and a half days. And I've just had to figure out other ways. Because I love my job. I just love it and I wanna love it. And I don't want my, I don't wanna, my mentor getting into doing hair was in her early 40s and she was, to the point where she would not be able to use her hands anymore. And she had been cutting hair for 25 years, 30 years. know, customer's always right, always going fast, and she really drilled into me. If you don't take care of your hands, they will quit on you. And I know that I'm gonna be using these things until the end in all ways, and there's no way that I'm going to forsake them. Sarah Beck: Hmm. Roxie Hunt: So that's been a part of it is just like, work now to what my hands can do without pain at night. Because I was starting to feel a lot of symptoms of carpal tunnel and you know, like, but I don't have that now. Sarah Beck: Yeah, it's important. It's important taking care of our bodies. Back to the space between things. ⁓ I've noticed that has been a game changer for me too. I try to allow 15 minutes between each appointment. ⁓ It doesn't always happen, but I've lengthened my appointments now so that I'm not rushing during the appointment. And then I try to give myself space. But if I don't, what I feel like is our nervous systems are like, Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah Beck: sort of ramping up with each client. And if we don't take that space between clients to really sort of, like you said, settle, kind of come back to ourselves, then we're just ramped up. like you said, by the end of the day, we're in the bathtub for two hours and crying because it's just, it's too much. I think it's important. ⁓ I had a ⁓ stylist who took a course with me and she said, after... talking about space between clients, I realized I can hold space for like eight people in a day. That's doable, but it's not doable to do it eight times in a row. So like doing it once and then taking a break and then doing it again and then taking a break. I think it's really important for our nervous systems. Roxie Hunt: Absolutely. Sarah Beck: How are you taking care of yourself right now ⁓ the times that we're living in as we're recording this? Yeah. You know, I think it's important to sort of have a conversation around how we're handling this so that our communities can see and feel this because ⁓ spaceholders, ⁓ can feel ⁓ Roxie Hunt: Ugh. Sarah Beck: like a lot when a lot is happening in our world and we're having a hard time processing it and then being with clay. Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Mm-hmm. see the ways that I am taking care of myself. I'm trying

to stay nourished in it. feel like when there's worldly things that are happening around me that feel really heavy, that's the first thing that gets to be hard for me is to feed myself. trying to do that first and foremost, ⁓ trying to, ⁓ feels like self care for me to ⁓ myself to be prepared in the ways that... then I feel, yeah, think just preparedness is helping me feel self-care. So I have some friends right now and family members in Minneapolis. I've been really keeping up with them and just kind of like watching to see what they're doing right now on the front lines and on the ground ⁓ with ICE and just trying to kind of aim myself in a direction to be able to kind of mobilize in community. to stand up as protector, if and when that comes to Seattle in a bigger way. ⁓ To me, feels like a huge self-care right now feels like ⁓ tending to my relationships, friends, family, community, neighbors, and just kind of like strengthening those relationships knowing that we're gonna be having to pull together more. That feels like a really big sense of self care. So I held a community meeting at our house not long ago for neighbors, just for general emergency preparedness. And it was like a potluck and we just got to know each other and we got to talk through some things and just kind of connecting a little bit and starting to form more of those relationships. Sharing resources in the salon feels really good. having... Sarah Beck: Yeah. I love. Yeah. Roxie Hunt: Having the resources up on my mirror so people can ask and then having them in the back room to share, pointing people in directions towards preparedness themselves. Feels like self care. ⁓ I mean, yeah. taking baths. I think a lot of what I'm feeling is self-care right now is actually kind of more community care, but that feels like self-care. You know what I mean? Like tending to my relationships and bonds, getting prepared. There's more, I mean, just kind of like trying to be sensitive to different people's experiences right now, especially clients coming into the salon who are doing work on the front lines, putting their bodies on the line. Like people doing that kind of work, just learning about how to support, how to create a space for them to come and feel some respite and to get some care before they go back out. Sarah Beck: Hmm. Roxie Hunt: So I think I feel better in myself when I'm tending to those things. You know what I mean? Those, cause it's like no amount of self care at this point that I can do is even, can even touch it. I went to a community grief ritual about a week ago that definitely felt like self care because it was like community holding space for each other to just grieve. So those kinds of things I'm looking for. Sarah Beck: Yes. Roxie Hunt: And then the work that I've been doing teaching the Wheel of Consent to me feels like an enormous self-care because it's about supporting people to find their authentic embodied yeses and nos and to feel their sense of agency and

to also build trust with themselves and each other. And that feels to me like I come out of that feeling like, okay, I have cared for myself by tending to community and those two things aren't separate. Sarah Beck: Yeah. How is it that for you personally when you're behind the chair and we're talking, you know, because so many of us are empaths, you know, we are experiencing our own anger and grief and figuring out what actions and volunteering and things that we're gonna take. But then we're hearing that all day with clients, which I loved. I loved your post about having resources available because I think it's... ⁓ when clients are bringing this up and when people feel helpless, if you have something already there, it's less emotional labor for you in that moment and you've done the work and you can say, here, actually I printed this out for you. Here are things that you can do. Here's a place where you can volunteer. This is a place to ⁓ give your money if you feel so inclined. ⁓ So I love that you have... Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Sarah Beck: brought that up and posted about this. Because I felt like immediately when you showed that I was like, oh yes, I love this idea. So when you're with clients and we're dealing with our own anger and things, how do you, process it when you're ⁓ with other people that are also, you know, expressing their anger or sadness or grief. How does that impact you? do you like, I think sometimes we can let it sort of build up in our systems to some degree. How do you not let that happen? Roxie Hunt: Yeah. How do I not let myself get pulled into an activation with clients who are feeling really activated? ⁓ or something like that. Sarah Beck: Yes. Yeah, I think, yeah. Or when it builds up in you after having that same conversation, not same, but similar conversation all day, how do you not let that like build up in you? Roxie Hunt: Well, I would say to some degree it does build up in me. so then at the end of the day, I'm left with a bit of work to do on my own to like dispel it. But I think that there's part of the touch that happens that can be really centering for both people. And so I think I try and use like really grounding touch on purpose when things get Sarah Beck: Yeah. Roxie Hunt: ramped up or I can tell someone's really activated both settles me and then I think settles them, you because I think we do, we do like, we co-regulate, you know, you know, my feelings about regulate, I don't love that word, but we do, you know, we co-resonate with each other. ⁓ so if one of us can bring ourselves down, then both people also like, you know, sometimes if people just need to rage and I can hold space for that too. ⁓ Sarah Beck: Yeah. Roxie Hunt: If somebody needs to come in and just let it rip and have a big yell and need a big bear hug, I can do that. think there's something about ⁓ touch between people that helps me come back into a grounded place, come back into a grounded place. So guess what I am saying is that I have maybe some kind of ⁓ well-honed-in skills of... ⁓ centering myself after just years and years and years of work. How do I ground myself in this moment when both of us aren't grounded so that they can kind of plug into where I am for a minute and get some of that. It's mothering. That's what it is, right? We learn that as moms. I think that's it. I just become a mom. I become the mother. That's it. Sarah Beck: That's so beautiful and also like, ugh, that's hard. It's hard in that moment to do that, but that's really a beautiful way to put that. Roxie Hunt: It's Yeah, I think that's kind of, that's what it is. I didn't, that's not the experience I had of a mom, but I can imagine that's an experience that would have been, I would have loved, maybe my mom gave me a I I don't want to get too much into my mom, but it's, I conjure that kind of universal mother energy. Maybe that's it of like, I'm here to hold this. I can hold this with you, I see you. Sarah Beck: I see you. Yeah, I you and we can do this, it's not, you're not alone, but it's not gonna rattle you. Roxie Hunt: You're not alone. No, and I'm not gonna hold it for you. I'll hold you while you hold it. I'll be there with you through it. I'll be your witness. So I told you I do this listening turns with my friend where we just take turns, we take two hours and we each have an hour and one of us gets to be in the role of speaker but we can be silent the whole time, the other one just witnesses. And that practice has been incredible. Sarah Beck: Hmm. Roxie Hunt: for me in honing this particular skill set of just being with. I'm just with, I'm just with you. It's like a presence. Sarah Beck: Hmm. not having to interject or change or fix or even say, I see you. It's like you just, are seeing them just by being. Roxie Hunt: I don't have to fix it. I'm just by being, and then there's the touch there too. Like I'm touching your head, I'm brushing your hair. You feel that, I think there's something deep in us, deep in us about just tending to each other's grooming. My mom worked with chimps in Tanzania and she studied their grooming habits. And like grooming is an ancient, Sarah Beck: Mm. Roxie Hunt: ancient, ancient, ancient community practice. We've been doing it since we were chimpanzees. We've been calming down by grooming each other. We've been reconnecting, re-grounding, re-familying. We just sit and we pick nits or we comb or we brush or we braid. So there's something really ancient there. Sarah Beck: I have to say that when I see you grooming yourself, like you often will do hair brushing videos of yourself, I immediately feel my entire system just go, and I'm just watching you. And it's made me aware, like of when I brush my daughter's hair or when I cut, you know, anyone really, but my kids especially, like I get very slow and I get very quiet. Roxie Hunt: Yeah! care. Sarah Beck: ⁓ And it's again, something that I've learned from you that it's like slow down, enjoy that moment. But

yeah, I believe that about grooming for sure. ⁓ I have shared my experience about Alchemy of Change and how much it ⁓ not only the way I see myself, but also how I work. How can other hairstylists find this course with you? And then I know actually that you just started ⁓ offering alchemy of change one-on-ones, which I think could be really potent, especially for those hairstylists who are just like on that edge of burnout and they love what they do, but they just can't imagine going to work one more day. I think it could be really important for that. So whether it's the class or the one-on-one, tell us how hairstylists can find you to work with you. Roxie Hunt: Mm-hmm. Okay, so I still have the alchemy of change. So once the pandemic started, I kind of shifted the alchemy of change into being a self-paced class that someone can do on their own. There's some videos and just kind of like a workbook module that you just sort of do in your own time. So that's available for anybody anytime. And it just takes you through, there's a couple chapters. One is about kind of like the art of working with ritual and initiation in hair care. There's one that's just about like how to do the consult and that part's super important and super, I think super fun and interesting, like how to really get on someone's level with them and get a juicy consult so you know exactly what's happening. And then talking about, we learned about like how to kind of set the space in a way that works well for you. energetic clearing, energetic boundaries, and then self-value, like how to value your services and raise your rates to kind of match the sort of life that you want. Those are the things that are available in that, self-paced class. And then I am now doing just one-on-one kind of mentoring. I just feel like I'm at a place in my career and at my age where I'm just, I have a lot to share and I have a lot of experience. And I love what I do and I've done it in so many different ways. And so I would like to be able to support other people who are needing to kind of make shifts in their careers as hairstylists so people can get a hold of me through my website, ⁓ roxyjanehunt.com and book like, know, continuous sessions or just one even just to kind of get them going in the right direction. Sarah Beck: Cool. I don't know if you remember, but we met up, had a one-on-one of when I first started, it was off after the alchemy of change. I feel like it was pandemic times and we met over zoom and I ⁓ ⁓ know, sort of figuring out ⁓ I'd been doing like mental health, but I didn't have a name or anything. And so then ⁓ helped me walk through figuring out. Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Yep. Sarah Beck: what the balanced hair stylist was gonna be and what it looked like and what it felt like. And I just remember you asking me these questions. So I'm sharing this because for anyone out there that's listening, you have a magical way of being able to see someone from where they're at and then asking the

right questions to be able to get them to where they want to be. And it wasn't just. you know, the balanced hair stylist, it was a lot of things. It was how I was working behind the chair, how I was scheduling my time. There's all these different things that you have wisdom to share, especially with people that are on that burnout edge, but then also younger stylists, I think would really benefit from something like this to say, you know, because I think a lot of people are struggling right now being behind the chair with times the way they Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Beck: are. It could be really like, I just felt really seen. I felt really clear about where I was going next and validated in where I was going. And what I was like this passion that I had. And then I just felt really nourished too. Like I just remember feeling really nourished after after my one on one with you. was really, really Roxie Hunt: Yeah. head. Sarah Beck: poignant for that time in my life. Roxie Hunt: I'm so glad. Sarah Beck: Okay. ⁓ find you on roxiejanehunt.com. if you could offer ⁓ final that feels like a game show, final question. If you could offer hairstylists one permission slip about their worth, their energy or the magic that we do, ⁓ what it be? Roxie Hunt: Love it. I love it. ⁓ my god. That's such a good question. permission slip. This might be a two-fold. The first thing is I want to give people permission to value their presence and attention above all else. Sarah Beck: Ugh, so good. Roxie Hunt: So obviously having the craft of hair styling is amazing. Keep working on that. But keep honing your ability to be present and attentive and know that there's so much inherent value in that it's almost the most valuable thing that we have to give, I think, is our present attention. And that sort of destroys the myth that you have to be doing more to be worth more. I don't think that's it. I think it's your ability to be present is worth so much. And then the other part of it is that, and this is for hairstyling and career, but it's also actually for the rest of life. It doesn't have to look like anything you've ever seen before. Your way of doing this work, your way of having a career that feels meaningful, your way of giving to your community and receiving in the form of money to pay for what you need to, we're living in really weird times and I think that's all the more reason to really go for creating something that works for you. Even if you're like trading all your services and getting all your needs met through trade or cutting hair out of the back of your car, well, you know, whatever it is, I think this are kind of like, there's something to be said for professionalism, right? But there's also room for other things. So I think just know that like the trade and skill of being a hairstylist is valuable always and will always be no matter where you go. And so don't be afraid to lean into making it work. in whatever way that you need to make it work. Sarah Beck: And I think in the world of AI right now too, like our jobs will never go away. Roxie Hunt: No, they will never. Sarah Beck: think to ⁓ like your ⁓ value of presence and making things work ⁓ for ⁓ is ourselves, right? And so much of that is knowing what we need and what success looks like to us. ⁓ Like said, it's the way, I'm sorry, the way you said it was so beautiful. Like it doesn't have to look like anyone else's. ⁓ Roxie Hunt: Yep, and it's perfectly. It doesn't and it's perfectly, perfectly reasonable, valued and invited to create, to value your services and your time based on what you need to be able to do them in full capacity instead of the other way around. In fact, I think that's the way to do it. So, So, Sarah Beck: I love that. Say that again. Roxie Hunt: So you are invited and you have full permission to value your time and your services around your desire for how life, how you want your life and balance of work-life balance to be. instead of looking around you at what other people are charging or feeling like you can't charge more than this or this, just look at what you, the life you have, the amount of time that you have to give and value your time based on that and then build your life around supporting that. Maybe that was too many words, but does that make sense? Okay. Sarah Beck: No, yeah, because I think what you said too is that makes a lot of sense and I think it's that capacity piece that we work up to our capacity instead of thinking about charging so that we can be within our capacity. Very different things. Roxie Hunt: Very different things. I wrote a book called Unstuck and there's a chapter in the middle and it's an interview with Jane Matthews. And she's a person who's really helped me understand that. And so if you want to know more, would go, I would get the book and read that center chapter. It's also in the alchemy of change in this kind of new way of valuing yourself and kind of creating the life you want and the value to hold it. in the amount of time that you want to work. But to work that way requires that you really hone in on what your specific and unique gifts are. So that's part of that work is like you hone in the value to fit what you want and you also pull from within like where am I best served in this? You know, like what am I specifically really good at here and really bring that. So if you're not good at doing blow dries, Stop wasting your time. Sarah Beck: Yeah, and everyone else's. Roxie Hunt: and everyone else's and do what you do best really good and don't do the things that don't matter to you. It's not worth it. Sarah Beck: Yep, ⁓ Roxy, Jane Hart. This has been amazing. Roxie Hunt: really has, it's been, nourished me so much to get to think about and speak to and just kind of dive in here with you. It's been, it just really feels good. Thank you. Sarah Beck: Thank you. I feel really honored to, you know, I, over the years, it's not just been alchemy of change. It's been following you on Instagram and having one-on-ones and emails. And occasionally, like, I feel like we have this like far away friendship that we get to check in and like, it's just, you have been truly a person who I feel like has been a mentor and ⁓ Roxie Hunt: Yeah. Sarah Beck: has nourished my soul on a deep level. so thank you for taking the time to do this with me today. Roxie Hunt: No. You're so welcome, Sarah. I'm so glad you asked. Sarah Beck: This is just, yeah, thank you. And I'll have all the things on the show notes. but ⁓ where people can find you. So ⁓ if anyone is out there, please find Roxy. can, I just want your magic to be everywhere. So yeah. Okay. Roxie Hunt: Thanks. Thank you. ⁓ thank you for what you're doing too. It's really beautiful and it's so needed ⁓ and ⁓ it's really for me to have like a soul sister in this work to feel like I'm not alone and you're not alone and we're doing this thing and it matters. ⁓ Sarah Beck: yeah, thank you for saying that. That means a lot. Okay, thank you. Roxie Hunt: Okay.