บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Inside the BBC's Archive Business: Licensing, Live Events and Music with Dominic Walker

events which is so shows you 71 00:04:41,612 --> 00:04:43,253 how things just go full circle. 72 00:04:43,253 --> 00:04:45,334 Yeah, then Prestige was cool because then, 73 00:04:45,334 --> 00:04:47,084 you know, they had IRS Records. 74 00:04:47,084 --> 00:04:48,775 We were in the IRS Records building. 75 00:04:48,775 --> 00:04:54,788 That was Miles's label. And I used to book Squeeze and Jules Holland 76 00:04:54,788 --> 00:04:57,819 and artists like that that we had by that roster. 77 00:04:57,819 --> 00:05:01,500 Plus I did the Sugar Cubes and Primal Scream and those sort of bands. 78 00:05:01,500 --> 00:05:03,001 So we some really cool bands there. 79 00:05:03,421 --> 00:05:05,001 And I discovered a couple of things earlier, 80 00:05:05,001 --> 00:05:09,326 not least the sugar cubes and then got offered this job of BMG doing A &R. 81 00:05:09,326 --> 00:05:12,188 That's how I got into doing A &R for the music publishing. 82 00:05:12,188 --> 00:05:14,312 Yeah, but it's a tough industry. 83 00:05:14,312 --> 00:05:16,606 mean, how does that, you then you move to Fremantle. 84 00:05:16,606 --> 00:05:18,603 How does that kind of, how does TV change? 85 00:05:18,603 --> 00:05:20,252 And what did you bring from that into TV, 86 00:05:20,252 --> 00:05:21,252 do think? 87 00:05:20,703 --> 00:05:26,468 Well, many scars, not least being deaf and tinnitus. 88 00:05:22,978 --> 00:05:23,978 haha 89 00:05:26,468 --> 00:05:31,841 But going into TV, then I realized TV producers were actually probably more flaky 90 00:05:26,538 --> 00:05:27,538 Hahaha 91 00:05:31,841 --> 00:05:34,744 than A &R men, which was a surprise. 92 00:05:33,577 --> 00:05:34,577 You 93 00:05:34,744 --> 00:05:35,975 I didn't think that was possible. 94 00:05:35,975 --> 00:05:40,188 But also the music, you know, I was working specifically at Fremantle Media 95 00:05:40,188 --> 00:05:43,000 in the music department. So I was always astounded, 96 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,621 you know, if there was a pitch for a program. 97 00:05:44,621 --> 00:05:46,941 and you thought, wow, this is the best one, 98 00:05:46,941 --> 00:05:49,041 I love this pitch, they would always choose another one. 99 00:05:49,041 --> 00:05:50,601 They had completely different ears. 100 00:05:50,601 --> 00:05:54,561 That was a real eye-opener. 101 00:05:54,561 --> 00:05:56,141 But still then working with music, 102 00:05:56,141 --> 00:06:02,721 music rights are complex. I'd say over 40 years I've been working with music rights. 103 00:06:02,721 --> 00:06:03,981 they're changing all the time. 104 00:06:03,981 --> 00:06:07,381 It's like the Wild West now. So you're still learning something all the time. 105 00:06:07,381 --> 00:06:12,501 So then going into TV, you really had to learn about a whole other set of rights, 106 00:06:12,501 --> 00:06:14,881 or you were kind of the other side of the desk as well then. 107 00:06:14,881 --> 00:06:16,921 So good eye-opener. And in fact, 108 00:06:16,921 --> 00:06:22,481 I talk to a lot of the industry groups in music now who talk about 109 00:06:22,481 --> 00:06:28,001 the broadcast industry and the acquisition of certain rights and why that is. 110 00:06:28,001 --> 00:06:29,941 Is it fair and are the rights fair? 111 00:06:29,941 --> 00:06:34,273 it pains to say listen come and listen to the other side of the desk learn what it's 112 00:06:34,273 --> 00:06:37,884 like to try and put a TV program together to get the budget to 113 00:06:37,884 --> 00:06:41,695 get the commission and how does how does everything make its 114 00:06:41,695 --> 00:06:44,366 way you think everyone's making loads of money it only works if 115 00:06:44,366 --> 00:06:47,558 you sell that program internationally you know all of those things need 116 00:06:47,558 --> 00:06:51,475 to be considered so everyone should see both sides of the desk rather than just jump 117 00:06:51,475 --> 00:06:56,531 to the gun saying you know you're you're ripping us off or it 118 00:06:56,891 --> 00:06:59,172 I don't know, I just think it gives a better understanding if 119 00:06:59,172 --> 00:07:00,572 you understand both sides of it. 120 00:07:00,572 --> 00:07:01,794 So I'm always at pain saying, listen, 121 00:07:01,794 --> 00:07:04,826 we can help educate you on that in any way that we can. 122 00:07:04,826 --> 00:07:09,168 And I think it being that informed in any negotiation or in any businesses 123 00:07:09,248 --> 00:07:10,701 is an asset, you know. 124 00:07:11,172 --> 00:07:13,155 sorry, can I just ask Dominic, 125 00:07:13,155 --> 00:07:16,199 what made you change from music to TV? 126 00:07:13,837 --> 00:07:14,837 Yeah. 127 00:07:16,199 --> 00:07:18,303 What was the reason that you decided? 128 00:07:18,646 --> 00:07:19,646 Hahaha 129 00:07:19,873 --> 00:07:24,297 Well, yeah, in a nutshell, basically I left Famous Music. 130 00:07:24,297 --> 00:07:28,131 Famous Music was hit because that was Paramount Pictures publishing company. 131 00:07:28,131 --> 00:07:32,505 9/11 happened and Viacom were the ultimate only company and their business was cut. 132 00:07:32,505 --> 00:07:35,636 So they were redundancies. I was the UK MD. 133 00:07:35,636 --> 00:07:38,828 went, the German MD went, I think the French MD went as well. 134 00:07:38,828 --> 00:07:41,209 And that's when I set my own business up. 135 00:07:41,209 --> 00:07:43,890 it was tough. It went okay at first and a couple of deals. 136 00:07:43,890 --> 00:07:47,191 Then people pulled out last minute and you've got all your money tied up in them. 137 00:07:47,191 --> 00:07:51,701 So it was a struggle. So then I was at the point where I had sold my soul 138 00:07:51,701 --> 00:07:54,941 to the music biz. I'd haven't got a degree or any other qualification. 139 00:07:54,941 --> 00:07:56,082 Well, I got a couple of A-levels. 140 00:07:56,082 --> 00:07:57,082 But... 141 00:07:56,422 --> 00:07:59,502 What do I do? You know, I've got a family to support. 142 00:07:59,502 --> 00:08:01,462 So and how do I show my

skills? 143 00:08:01,462 --> 00:08:04,242 I've got the skills, but how do I show they're transferable, 144 00:08:04,242 --> 00:08:07,382 especially in an age where everything's submitted electronically and 145 00:08:07,382 --> 00:08:08,742 you can't sit opposite someone. 146 00:08:08,742 --> 00:08:10,082 I think it's even more like that now. 147 00:08:10,082 --> 00:08:13,082 And so I kind of toned down my CV, 148 00:08:13,082 --> 00:08:14,262 cutting a long story short. And, 149 00:08:14,262 --> 00:08:16,602 you know, I tried to work at Sainsbury's, 150 00:08:16,602 --> 00:08:18,102 were like, why do want to work here? 151 00:08:18,102 --> 00:08:19,402 You've been MD of a music company. 152 00:08:19,402 --> 00:08:21,802 It's happened to do the fact that I've got three kids, 153 00:08:21,802 --> 00:08:25,162 but I didn't get that. 154 00:08:22,180 --> 00:08:23,180 Yeah. 155 00:08:25,162 --> 00:08:30,342 But then I went to Fremantle Media and a woman called Birgit Hench 156 00:08:30,342 --> 00:08:33,302 was the head of licensing there. 157 00:08:33,302 --> 00:08:36,142 And I got an interview with her friend that managed to get me in 158 00:08:36,142 --> 00:08:37,862 to get an interview. And as soon as I saw her, 159 00:08:37,862 --> 00:08:40,142 I kind of clicked and she gave me a break. 160 00:08:40,142 --> 00:08:41,972 So I'm forever grateful to her. 161 00:08:42,164 --> 00:08:44,386 And then that's, so that's how I got into Fremantle. 162 00:08:44,386 --> 00:08:45,997 But it was a real turning point. 163 00:08:45,997 --> 00:08:48,819 So it was kind of a blessing in a way, 164 00:08:48,819 --> 00:08:52,462 because then I suddenly found myself in a job where I was still working in music, 165 00:08:52,462 --> 00:08:54,528 but I didn't have to be at every gig every night. 166 00:08:54,528 --> 00:08:56,424 You know, I was kind of burnt out from that. 167 00:08:56,424 --> 00:08:58,693 You're out six nights a week. You've got to, 168 00:08:58,693 --> 00:09:02,530 you're on top of everything. You're listening to everything before bands done their 169 00:09:02,530 --> 00:09:06,433 first gig even, you know about them and you've heard all the demos and all that. 170 00:09:06,433 --> 00:09:10,608 I found that I could just suddenly enjoy music even more on my own terms. 171 00:09:10,608 --> 00:09:13,281 I could discover things if it two years after it come out, 172 00:09:13,281 --> 00:09:15,974 so what? And then fall in love with an album or whatever. 173 00:09:15,974 --> 00:09:19,698 And I realized people went home after work rather than going to gigs 174 00:09:19,330 --> 00:09:20,330 You 175 00:09:19,618 --> 00:09:20,618 you 176 00:09:19,698 --> 00:09:22,612 or going somewhere. So I started reading and got, 177 00:09:22,612 --> 00:09:23,612 you know. 178 00:09:23,002 --> 00:09:25,324 I read all the Orwell books again and stuff like that. 179 00:09:25,324 --> 00:09:27,516 I wow, why do people complain about going to work? 180 00:09:27,516 --> 00:09:29,517 This is easy. Just go home at the end of the day. 181 00:09:29,517 --> 00:09:32,129 Because I've kind of stretched my elastic band so much. 182 00:09:32,129 --> 00:09:34,211 So I'm grateful for it for that, 183 00:09:34,211 --> 00:09:37,593 for those reasons. And it made me appreciate a different work-life balance. 184 00:09:38,493 --> 00:09:40,030 And I bet you Sainsbury's 185 00:09:40,030 --> 00:09:42,279 are gutted they didn't take you on now. 186 00:09:42,111 --> 00:09:43,592 ~ Yeah, 187 00:09:43,592 --> 00:09:46,013 I don't know about that. you know, 188 00:09:46,013 --> 00:09:47,794 that's that's important lesson. 189 00:09:47,794 --> 00:09:53,116 I think actually, unless you really rise up and some mates of mine really, 190 00:09:53,116 --> 00:09:54,886 you know, ended up running companies, 191 00:09:54,886 --> 00:09:59,089 but a lot didn't and a lot was spat out of the music biz and found different ways 192 00:09:59,089 --> 00:10:03,361 that I'm really blessed that that path presented itself to me was painful 193 00:10:03,361 --> 00:10:06,942 at the time, but I really am lucky to have to have got that break. 194 00:10:06,942 --> 00:10:09,842 and had a second of second career 195 00:10:09,842 --> 00:10:15,642 in media and been able to use the skills which I did 196 00:10:15,642 --> 00:10:19,922 you know which were hard fought for like starting off at Terry King's 197 00:10:19,922 --> 00:10:23,642 you had to really be a good negotiator working with what we had. 198 00:10:23,642 --> 00:10:24,642 So 199 00:10:24,081 --> 00:10:28,372 and one thing, you mentioned that you didn't actually go in and do a degree, 200 00:10:28,372 --> 00:10:32,153 which is really interesting, that you don't actually, 201 00:10:29,154 --> 00:10:30,154 No. 202 00:10:32,153 --> 00:10:34,484 that people that, because everyone thinks, 203 00:10:34,242 --> 00:10:37,032 Don't tell anyone. Yeah. 204 00:10:34,484 --> 00:10:35,748 you have to do a media degree. 205 00:10:35,748 --> 00:10:38,476 Well, no, I think it's great that you didn't do one. 206 00:10:37,195 --> 00:10:38,195 You 207 00:10:38,476 --> 00:10:43,379 I didn't do one. So I'm quite impressed that you can get to your level 208 00:10:40,226 --> 00:10:41,226 Yeah. 209 00:10:44,216 --> 00:10:45,876 Yeah, I'm very lucky. mean, I'm 210 00:10:44,319 --> 00:10:45,740 and didn't really need one. 211 00:10:45,876 --> 00:10:48,336 probably the only person at the BBC without a degree. 212 00:10:48,336 --> 00:10:49,996 I think when I joined BBC Worldwide, 213 00:10:49,996 --> 00:10:52,356 I found out that John Smith, was then the CEO, 214 00:10:52,356 --> 00:10:54,996 he didn't have a degree. So I was kind of felt a bit of relief. 215 00:10:54,996 --> 00:10:56,876 But I don't know how, you know, 216 00:10:55,406 --> 00:10:57,172 pick up the people that didn't have degrees. 217 00:10:56,876 --> 00:11:00,176 I was very lucky to get in. I had recommendations from people. 218 00:11:00,176 --> 00:11:02,696 I had a guy who knew

me, I'd worked with, 219 00:11:02,696 --> 00:11:04,816 put in a good word for me and got me an interview. 220 00:11:04,816 --> 00:11:06,576 you know, I consider myself very lucky. 221 00:11:06,576 --> 00:11:08,736 And I found going into the BBC. 222 00:11:08,736 --> 00:11:13,232 absolutely fantastic and it felt like it was a bit like going to university 223 00:11:13,232 --> 00:11:16,946 but I also found that from the music Biz everyone was very guarded about 224 00:11:17,226 --> 00:11:21,388 their contacts or any information or sharing anything because it's really cutthroat 225 00:11:19,931 --> 00:11:20,931 Yeah. 226 00:11:21,589 --> 00:11:24,961 that coming here suddenly everyone was open you knew everything you could 227 00:11:24,961 --> 00:11:28,499 get access to all these courses or you could go people come and talk 228 00:11:28,499 --> 00:11:32,766 to you about their area of business and share openly and so You could learn 229 00:11:32,766 --> 00:11:38,749 so much and it was just a breath of fresh air for me to have that that kind 230 00:11:37,946 --> 00:11:39,479 Amazing, amazing. 231 00:11:38,749 --> 00:11:42,311 of attitude and be able to be part of that was amazing and I think 232 00:11:42,311 --> 00:11:43,332 I'm passionate about 233 00:11:43,332 --> 00:11:48,374 the BBC and art for art sake as opposed to obviously, 234 00:11:48,374 --> 00:11:51,555 I'm in the commercial art so we try and exploit them. 235 00:11:51,555 --> 00:11:53,276 But in terms of exploiting that, 236 00:11:53,276 --> 00:11:57,086 you feel like it's quite cool raison d'etre because money we make doesn't 237 00:11:57,086 --> 00:12:00,987 buy us swimming pools. It goes back into the BBC and back into program making. 238 00:12:00,987 --> 00:12:02,207 So that's quite cool. 239 00:12:02,333 --> 00:12:03,594 that brings us forward actually. 240 00:12:03,594 --> 00:12:06,036 So one of the things to where you are today, 241 00:12:06,036 --> 00:12:08,539 which is Global Business Director at BBC Studios, 242 00:12:08,539 --> 00:12:13,193 what we wanted to do, Dom was that we have a lot of listeners and watchers from 243 00:12:13,193 --> 00:12:16,896 the States. So can you just in a minute give us an overview of what 244 00:12:16,896 --> 00:12:20,209 BBC Studios is in your role, just so we can place it and people 245 00:12:19,368 --> 00:12:20,368 Yeah. 246 00:12:20,209 --> 00:12:22,351 can understand how it sits in the media landscape? 247 00:12:22,289 --> 00:12:23,289 Sure. 248 00:12:23,090 --> 00:12:26,411 Well, BBC Studios is the commercial arm of the BBC. 249 00:12:26,411 --> 00:12:31,025 So we exist to commercialize BBC IP in order to generate revenue, 250 00:12:31,025 --> 00:12:36,618 which goes back into the BBC, back into program making and back into plugging gaps 251 00:12:36,618 --> 00:12:42,183 in funding. know, everybody I think is widely documented that the reduction 252 00:12:42,183 --> 00:12:45,145 in the license fee settlement means that there's more responsibility 253 00:12:45,145 --> 00:12:47,427 on the commercial arm to generate revenue. 254 00:12:47,427 --> 00:12:48,427 And it's that, so. 255 00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:48,670 for the BBC. 256 00:12:48,454 --> 00:12:50,293 We've got one shareholder and that's the BBC. 257 00:12:50,293 --> 00:12:53,636 Yeah, and so it's part, it's quasi still funded by the license 258 00:12:53,636 --> 00:12:56,248 fee that the households in Britain pay. 259 00:12:56,248 --> 00:13:00,361 And then your business is commercially operated like any other business. 260 00:12:59,706 --> 00:13:02,087 Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, 261 00:13:00,361 --> 00:13:01,842 Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. 262 00:13:02,087 --> 00:13:05,499 that's right. And we have targets which we have a dividend which 263 00:13:05,499 --> 00:13:08,201 the BBC requires from BBC studios. 264 00:13:08,201 --> 00:13:10,633 I don't think my CEO has much of a say in that. 265 00:13:10,633 --> 00:13:14,336 I they're told we need this much and then we have to try and find that money. 266 00:13:14,336 --> 00:13:17,119 So we have responsibility. I run three business areas, 267 00:13:17,119 --> 00:13:21,513 as you said before. You know, we've got high targets to try and meet that everybody 268 00:13:21,513 --> 00:13:22,513 always wants growth. 269 00:13:22,503 --> 00:13:25,604 And we're passionate about leaving no stone unturned, 270 00:13:25,604 --> 00:13:28,084 but also protecting the BBC's values. 271 00:13:28,084 --> 00:13:32,224 don't brand slap or, you we very much have an eye on that. 272 00:13:32,224 --> 00:13:34,024 And the challenge for us is, you know, 273 00:13:34,024 --> 00:13:35,764 we've got an amazing content engine, 274 00:13:35,764 --> 00:13:38,804 but it's completely surrounded by a treacle because there's, 275 00:13:38,804 --> 00:13:41,544 you know, lot of stakeholders and bureaucracy to wait through. 276 00:13:41,544 --> 00:13:43,914 quite often the challenge is... 277 00:13:44,020 --> 00:13:47,091 not doing a deal on the outside and getting someone to actually commit 278 00:13:47,091 --> 00:13:49,822 to signing a contract that delivers real money. 279 00:13:49,822 --> 00:13:51,902 It's getting the buy-in internally. 280 00:13:51,902 --> 00:13:54,383 So there's a lot to navigate. That's the challenge. 281 00:13:54,383 --> 00:13:56,514 I'm smiling about it now, but some days, 282 00:13:56,514 --> 00:14:00,291 you know, it's hard work. But it's worth it in the end. 283 00:14:00,291 --> 00:14:04,375 Yeah, so let's talk about those kind of three aspects of what you cover. 284 00:14:04,375 --> 00:14:07,387 we can start with the BBC Motion Gallery. 285 00:14:07,387 --> 00:14:11,291 Again, very simply so we can go forwards, 286 00:14:11,291 --> 00:14:14,793 what's Getty work with? What do you guys work with? 287 00:14:14,793 --> 00:14:18,977 Where is the archive? And how is that laid out from commercial terms? 288 00:14:18,977 --> 00:14:24,237 Yeah, I mean, the BBC archive dates back to the 1920s

from radio and then from 289 00:14:24,237 --> 00:14:27,657 the beginning of television. So it's a vast archive. 290 00:14:27,657 --> 00:14:31,037 80 % probably still offline. The rest is digitized, 291 00:14:31,037 --> 00:14:34,017 but we're making progress in digitizing it. 292 00:14:34,017 --> 00:14:38,657 And, you know, we have a deal with Getty, 293 00:14:38,657 --> 00:14:42,577 which has been on for the last 15 years or so, 294 00:14:42,577 --> 00:14:43,617 I think. And... 295 00:14:43,617 --> 00:14:45,168 a great relationship with them. 296 00:14:45,168 --> 00:14:48,669 It's a very collaborative relationship and we believe they've got 297 00:14:48,669 --> 00:14:52,791 the best sales teams globally to be able to represent an archive the size 298 00:14:52,791 --> 00:14:55,402 of the BBC's. It's a massive archive. 299 00:14:55,402 --> 00:15:00,613 It's a big calling card because the BBC brand is iconic but we're 300 00:15:00,613 --> 00:15:03,724 not arrogant enough to think that's enough on its own. 301 00:15:03,724 --> 00:15:08,097 We like to be in with other archives so if you're a program maker you kind of... 302 00:15:08,097 --> 00:15:12,179 not a one-stop shop, but you have all the benefits of being exposed 303 00:15:12,179 --> 00:15:15,870 or the ability to buy all of that content rather than us set up on 304 00:15:15,870 --> 00:15:17,681 our own and expect people to come to us. 305 00:15:17,681 --> 00:15:20,275 So we very much benefit from being part of that. 306 00:15:20,275 --> 00:15:21,823 I think it's mutually beneficial. 307 00:15:21,849 --> 00:15:25,498 And so, with 80 % of the content not being digitized, 308 00:15:25,498 --> 00:15:27,580 we had a chat with ITV recently, 309 00:15:27,580 --> 00:15:29,962 which is another large broadcast and not a BBC size, 310 00:15:29,962 --> 00:15:33,505 but they're working with Google to kind of get everything digitized. 311 00:15:33,505 --> 00:15:39,111 that kind of in hand in terms of you guys looking to get stuff digitized further? 312 00:15:35,636 --> 00:15:39,136 Yeah, yeah, the BBC 313 00:15:39,136 --> 00:15:42,496 Public Service is digitizing the archive, 314 00:15:42,496 --> 00:15:44,996 you know, step by step. And, you know, 315 00:15:44,996 --> 00:15:47,876 they'll sometimes come to us and ask for advice about which are the most, 316 00:15:47,876 --> 00:15:52,556 which are the areas that we would like them to concentrate on first, 317 00:15:52,556 --> 00:15:56,976 because they're more exploitable or more beneficial to have. 318 00:15:56,976 --> 00:15:59,356 So we work with them and give them advice on that. 319 00:15:59,356 --> 00:16:04,576 So, yeah, there is a huge amount of progress being made on that from, 320 00:16:04,576 --> 00:16:05,576 but it's... 321 00:16:05,432 --> 00:16:07,657 you know, it's a question of priorities and cost, 322 00:16:07,657 --> 00:16:10,082 but we're moving in that right direction. 323 00:16:10,082 --> 00:16:12,922 Yeah, yeah, I mean it doesn't mean that

it's digitized and it's going to sell. 324 00:16:12,922 --> 00:16:14,362 I mean so look, you know, so looking 325 00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:18,261 within BBC emotion gallery, there's a sales support team, 326 00:16:18,261 --> 00:16:20,612 research team, and an online team who, 327 00:16:20,612 --> 00:16:24,786 you the online team focus on the digitized content and presenting that 328 00:16:24,786 --> 00:16:28,570 in a way which is useful for editors and program makers and people that 329 00:16:28,570 --> 00:16:29,700 are looking for content. 330 00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:34,172 And we have some really skilled individuals who are identifying that content, 331 00:16:34,172 --> 00:16:37,780 who think about that very creatively and how to present it. 332 00:16:37,780 --> 00:16:41,163 And similarly with Offline. But Offline, 333 00:16:41,163 --> 00:16:43,044 the best thing about the Offline team here, 334 00:16:43,044 --> 00:16:46,786 one of the really great things which always impresses me is they're always reviewing 335 00:16:46,786 --> 00:16:49,837 the process and trying to make it more efficient and trying to... 336 00:16:49,837 --> 00:16:53,140 improved turnaround times and I think we're really good at that. 337 00:16:53,140 --> 00:16:55,692 We've worked with Getty very closely on that. 338 00:16:55,692 --> 00:16:58,494 know any of those collaborations in the music business we've got 339 00:16:58,494 --> 00:17:02,828 a joint venture with Universal Music for BBC Production Music Library which we've 340 00:17:02,828 --> 00:17:07,063 set up and it's very collaborative and that's the same with Getty. 341 00:17:07,063 --> 00:17:10,874 It's not us and them. You know we're working together to help support each other. 342 00:17:10,874 --> 00:17:13,837 You know from my background I know what it's like trying to sell things. 343 00:17:13,837 --> 00:17:16,598 We need to make it as easy as possible for people to sell things. 344 00:17:16,598 --> 00:17:18,799 There's nothing more disappointing than trying to sell something 345 00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:20,818 and then realising they haven't got the rights in it 346 00:17:20,818 --> 00:17:22,540 or there's something fundamental like that, 347 00:17:22,540 --> 00:17:24,161 you either run a fortune under your feet. 348 00:17:24,161 --> 00:17:27,452 So we do our best, Oliver that's a very basic example, 349 00:17:27,452 --> 00:17:32,083 but to make sure that they're supported and able to represent us in the 350 00:17:32,083 --> 00:17:33,704 way that we wish to be represented. 351 00:18:14,730 --> 00:18:16,355 where do you, what are the challenges? 352 00:18:16,355 --> 00:18:19,538 mean, growth is difficult at the moment because there's so much uncertainty 353 00:18:19,538 --> 00:18:21,580 and it's all moving towards this creator economy. 354 00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:24,722 You know, I know you're involved with live events and we'll kind of get into that. 355 00:18:24,722 --> 00:18:26,944 That's certainly what a lot of people move into. 356 00:18:26,944 --> 00:18:29,206 just from, just focusing on the archive side, 357 00:18:29,206 --> 00:18:30,867 what are the challenges for you at the moment? 358 00:18:30,867 --> 00:18:35,130 The are the lack of commissions across the business. 359 00:18:35,130 --> 00:18:40,185 think that's perhaps that's because I think we all got spoiled 360 00:18:40,185 --> 00:18:45,339 by the streamers suddenly coming into the business and wanting to wrap 361 00:18:45,339 --> 00:18:46,962 up the level of content that they had. 362 00:18:46,962 --> 00:18:50,886 We definitely benefited over COVID because people couldn't go and film. 363 00:18:51,286 --> 00:18:54,700 new content, couldn't travel, so they were coming up with ideas 364 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:58,344 for archive-based content. So we benefited, 365 00:18:58,344 --> 00:19:00,506 but that created a spike in our business which... 366 00:19:00,506 --> 00:19:03,997 you know, we have to remind finance people that that was a spike that's 367 00:19:03,997 --> 00:19:06,248 not repeatable and adjust the growth, 368 00:19:06,248 --> 00:19:08,627 not on that, but on what the years before were. 369 00:19:08,627 --> 00:19:10,818 But even so, then I think the streamers then have gone, 370 00:19:10,818 --> 00:19:12,329 right, we've got the content now, 371 00:19:12,329 --> 00:19:15,470 our business model means we need to become profitable. 372 00:19:15,470 --> 00:19:17,121 So therefore the lack of commission. 373 00:19:17,121 --> 00:19:20,233 So that has impacted things. And in general terms, 374 00:19:20,233 --> 00:19:25,395 probably the amount, this is applicable to the music business as well, 375 00:19:25,395 --> 00:19:27,136 with everything being available. 376 00:19:27,604 --> 00:19:31,517 Spotify and on streaming services all offering the same content by 377 00:19:31,517 --> 00:19:36,798 the way no differentiation really and then TV channels with so much content that 378 00:19:36,798 --> 00:19:40,234 you know the funnel has become a bucket so pizza where you 379 00:19:40,420 --> 00:19:43,951 you know, there's an industry focusing people either on programs 380 00:19:43,951 --> 00:19:46,171 or focusing people on a music chart. 381 00:19:46,171 --> 00:19:50,803 And here, look, we're the taste makers and we're guiding you towards this talent. 382 00:19:50,803 --> 00:19:52,494 So there's a focus and therefore, 383 00:19:52,494 --> 00:19:56,015 you know, those industries being able to break artists or, 384 00:19:56,015 --> 00:19:59,176 or, or program makers being able to make hit programs. 385 00:19:59,364 --> 00:20:01,704 Now it's become a bucket, so everyone's scrabbling about, 386 00:20:01,704 --> 00:20:03,423 everything's ever released is there. 387 00:20:03,423 --> 00:20:04,583 You don't know where to start. 388 00:20:04,583 --> 00:20:08,083 I'm phoning up mates going, have you seen Breaking Bad? 389 00:20:08,083 --> 00:20:09,383 May and that was out 10 years ago, 390 00:20:09,383 -->

00:20:11,163 whatever, you're so behind the camera. 391 00:20:10,486 --> 00:20:11,486 Yeah 392 00:20:11,163 --> 00:20:12,343 But you just discover it yourself. 393 00:20:12,343 --> 00:20:13,623 How are we all discovering it? 394 00:20:13,623 --> 00:20:15,923 And that's a problem for any one of those industries to go, 395 00:20:15,923 --> 00:20:17,183 how do we get around? 396 00:20:17,183 --> 00:20:20,520 algorithms and all that kind of stuff but there's so much stuff out there 397 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,208 and I think that's definitely affecting it because people can't afford 398 00:20:25,208 --> 00:20:28,135 to keep making those programs that don't have any return. 399 00:20:28,135 --> 00:20:31,495 Yeah, 100%. We were chatting with Tim Forrest, 400 00:20:31,495 --> 00:20:33,515 who's the ITN kind of digital guy. 401 00:20:33,515 --> 00:20:36,435 And he was saying that, yeah, exactly the same thing, 402 00:20:36,435 --> 00:20:38,055 that those budgets have gone down. 403 00:20:38,055 --> 00:20:39,135 So the commissions have gone rather, 404 00:20:39,135 --> 00:20:41,755 it's only global stuff. But the key perhaps for archives, 405 00:20:39,589 --> 00:20:40,589 Yeah. 406 00:20:41,755 --> 00:20:43,274 and this is just an interesting concept, 407 00:20:43,274 --> 00:20:46,155 is that you have this vast creator economy, 408 00:20:46,155 --> 00:20:49,715 all of which could potentially use parts of that enormous BBC archive. 409 00:20:49,715 --> 00:20:54,355 And it's meeting those multiple billions of creators with that breadth of content. 410 00:20:54,355 --> 00:20:56,055 And that's the challenge, that kind of middle 411 00:20:56,199 --> 00:20:58,440 middle ground, the top, the movies, 412 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,872 the HBO productions, they're still gonna be there, 413 00:21:00,872 --> 00:21:03,123 they'll still make them. it's kind of that, 414 00:21:01,854 --> 00:21:02,854 Yes. 415 00:21:03,123 --> 00:21:05,465 think that for all archives, I think that's a challenge, 416 00:21:05,465 --> 00:21:07,346 especially when things aren't digitized, 417 00:21:07,346 --> 00:21:08,497 it's very difficult, you know? 418 00:21:08,744 --> 00:21:10,765 Yeah, absolutely. And then it's costing, 419 00:21:10,765 --> 00:21:14,246 you know, it's budget and all of those things come into play. 420 00:21:14,246 --> 00:21:16,496 Yeah, so it's challenging and frustrating, 421 00:21:16,496 --> 00:21:20,128 but then going to the focal awards the other day really reminded me of, 422 00:21:20,128 --> 00:21:23,910 you you see some of the programs there and how archive allows 423 00:21:23,910 --> 00:21:26,090 us to interpret evidence. 424 00:21:26,090 --> 00:21:30,930 in order to construct narratives about what happened, 425 00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:34,490 providing an explanation why. And it's history, 426 00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:39,750 isn't it? So history is either theoretical to uncover 427 00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:45,310 the truth or practical to learn lessons from the past. 428 00:21:45,310 --> 00:21:48,830 some of the, especially some of the programs that were winning awards, 429 00:21:48,830 --> 00:21:50,130 the focal awards were. 430 00:21:50,130 --> 00:21:53,373 really powerful messages about what's happened before. 431 00:21:53,373 --> 00:21:56,617 And you know, we need to learn from the past, 432 00:21:56,617 --> 00:21:58,599 have we actually learned from the past? 433 00:21:58,599 --> 00:22:00,761 That comes back to COVID, you know, 434 00:22:00,761 --> 00:22:03,794 everyone was very much getting in touch with being present or going back 435 00:22:03,794 --> 00:22:07,808 to making crafts and kind of having this bit of a spiritual exploration. 436 00:22:07,808 --> 00:22:10,908 and haven't learned anything. So it seems to me everyone's gone back to just 437 00:22:10,908 --> 00:22:12,928 how it was now and everyone, do you know what mean? 438 00:22:11,730 --> 00:22:15,033 Yep. Just got spinning out. 439 00:22:12,928 --> 00:22:15,968 So, yeah, 440 00:22:15,968 --> 00:22:20,528 but it really, anyway, struck me at the Folk Award how important 441 00:22:20,528 --> 00:22:23,028 and powerful archive is to tell a story. 442 00:22:23,028 --> 00:22:26,070 Yeah, yeah, I felt so I always feel completely energized after that award. 443 00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:30,310 So we're, you know, we sometimes you just think of the breadth of films that made 444 00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:31,964 you like, wow, I didn't know that was out there. 445 00:22:31,964 --> 00:22:33,151 Go back to your point, you know, 446 00:22:32,407 --> 00:22:33,407 Yeah. 447 00:22:33,151 --> 00:22:34,706 so many films are missed. Yeah, 448 00:22:33,429 --> 00:22:34,429 Hmm. 449 00:22:34,706 --> 00:22:37,658 it's hugely valuable for kind of reframing history and, 450 00:22:37,658 --> 00:22:40,550 how, know, how important it is to these films get funded. 451 00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:42,732 You know, so, you know, in that sense, 452 00:22:40,978 --> 00:22:41,978 Yeah. 453 00:22:42,732 --> 00:22:45,493 so that, you know, so we know that's gone where it's gone. 454 00:22:45,493 --> 00:22:47,655 know, television, as it has stands as, 455 00:22:47,655 --> 00:22:49,446 you know, has disappeared in a way. 456 00:22:49,446 --> 00:22:51,360 that is never going back to where was before. 457 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,679 What are the growths? I live events is fascinating. 458 00:22:54,679 --> 00:22:58,046 So can you talk a little bit about where you're going with that and what 459 00:22:58,046 --> 00:22:59,046 you guys do? 460 00:22:59,348 --> 00:23:04,490 Yeah, I mean, it's the live events business I run is all the ticketed live events. 461 00:23:04,490 --> 00:23:05,611 anything you sell a ticket for, 462 00:23:05,611 --> 00:23:08,032 so it could be the Strictly Come Dancing Arena tour, 463 00:23:08,032 --> 00:23:09,973 or it could be an immersive experience. 464 00:23:09,973 --> 00:23:12,635 We've got Bluey's World, which is in Brisbane. 465 00:23:12,635 -->

00:23:18,013 and or it could be shows from one of our podcast brands or from the sky 466 00:23:18,013 --> 00:23:19,525 at night on a cruise ship. 467 00:23:19,525 --> 00:23:21,367 you know, or could be BBC Earth. 468 00:23:21,367 --> 00:23:22,668 Well, we do a lot of concerts. 469 00:23:22,668 --> 00:23:27,762 We do a Planet Earth 3 concert where we have footage on big screens with 470 00:23:27,762 --> 00:23:29,063 an orchestra playing the music. 471 00:23:29,063 --> 00:23:30,955 I mean, not just playing the cube, 472 00:23:30,955 --> 00:23:34,378 we kind of do new arrangements of the music and then tell the story 473 00:23:34,378 --> 00:23:36,730 in a different way, but use powerful archival imagery 474 00:23:36,730 --> 00:23:38,621 and they're extremely successful. 475 00:23:38,621 --> 00:23:43,705 They tour globally. So it's about any way to commercialise BBC IP. 476 00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:41,390 Mmm. 477 00:23:43,705 --> 00:23:47,046 without brand slapping, but also with value for money. 478 00:23:47,046 --> 00:23:49,447 And you know, lot of the immersive experiences, 479 00:23:49,447 --> 00:23:51,438 immersive is the buzzword, right? 480 00:23:51,438 --> 00:23:53,409 So everyone's with about immersive experiences. 481 00:23:53,409 --> 00:23:56,474 A lot of them follow the same format and are okay. 482 00:23:56,474 --> 00:23:58,274 They'll sit there for four months or so, 483 00:23:58,274 --> 00:24:02,416 they may, it's again, it's the promoters all have a bit of skin in the game. 484 00:24:02,416 --> 00:24:05,217 So there'll probably be four promoters all put a bit of money in 485 00:24:05,457 --> 00:24:09,989 and they'll do something about Pompeii or the Titanic and it'll tour Europe. 486 00:24:09,989 --> 00:24:12,040 will click and they'll make some money. 487 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,340 The others will wash their face. 488 00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:14,340 So we kind of have 489 00:24:14,220 --> 00:24:17,462 navigate through that and try and come up with something compelling. 490 00:24:17,462 --> 00:24:20,834 It's the difference between could and would right so anyone could say 491 00:24:21,054 --> 00:24:26,067 we could do something with you know planet earth like that and go yeah 492 00:24:26,067 --> 00:24:30,008 but would anyone do that you know and would it would it actually be compelling 493 00:24:30,008 --> 00:24:33,841 on a wet Wednesday during term time to go and see it and would people 494 00:24:33,841 --> 00:24:36,792 pay a ticket price and is it fair all of those things so 495 00:24:36,792 --> 00:24:41,193 That part of our strategy is working out that and what is real and what isn't. 496 00:24:41,193 --> 00:24:45,705 also do, know, Bluey is a preschool kids program that we have, 497 00:24:45,705 --> 00:24:48,835 which is a massive hit. It's on Disney Plus and it's on CBeebies. 498 00:24:48,835 --> 00:24:51,646 And I did a deal with Disney theme parks for that. 499 00:24:51,646 --> 00:24:54,717 So it's the first time Disney have had a kids brand outside one of their 500 00:24:54,717 --> 00:24:57,217 own in the theme parks in North America. 501 00:24:57,217 --> 00:25:00,798 We launched Bluey's Best Day Ever in Disneyland. 502 00:25:00,798 --> 00:25:03,038 in Anaheim at the beginning of May this year. 503 00:25:03,038 --> 00:25:06,710 It's phenomenal business. It's great live show. 504 00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:10,312 in the Fantasyland Theatre, the Amphitheatre. 505 00:25:10,312 --> 00:25:11,878 And we're doing something in Animal Kingdom. 506 00:25:11,878 --> 00:25:15,842 We've launched something in Animal Kingdom a couple of months ago. 507 00:25:15,842 --> 00:25:17,663 So we do those kind of things. 508 00:25:17,663 --> 00:25:19,944 It's great working with teams at Disney. 509 00:25:20,165 --> 00:25:22,585 We went, you we worked with the Imagineering team. 510 00:25:22,585 --> 00:25:24,265 The Imagineering team's fascinating. 511 00:25:24,265 --> 00:25:25,665 They kind of got the best job in the world. 512 00:25:25,665 --> 00:25:27,145 If you go to Disney Imagineering, 513 00:25:27,145 --> 00:25:30,005 you've got people playing with robots and just, 514 00:25:30,005 --> 00:25:31,705 you know, inventing all these, 515 00:25:31,705 --> 00:25:33,745 all these crazy things with a budget. 516 00:25:33,712 --> 00:25:34,712 You 517 00:25:33,745 --> 00:25:35,905 It's so impressive. And listen, 518 00:25:35,905 --> 00:25:38,725 you look, you talk about immersive experiences and you go to Disneyland 519 00:25:38,725 --> 00:25:42,045 and you'll do, if you do the Star Wars Rise of the Resistance, 520 00:25:42,045 --> 00:25:44,245 you can't top that for an immersive experience. 521 00:25:44,245 --> 00:25:46,266 but it's obviously a huge budget. 522 00:25:46,266 --> 00:25:50,089 So that's what people kind of expect at that level. 523 00:25:50,089 --> 00:25:52,446 You there's a balance between now what people expect, 524 00:25:52,446 --> 00:25:54,272 because we're all spoiled with technology, 525 00:25:54,272 --> 00:25:57,134 you know, everything that's now possible to us at our fingertips. 526 00:25:57,134 --> 00:25:59,426 You kind of, just going, walking in, 527 00:25:59,426 --> 00:26:01,838 seeing a big screen isn't impressive anymore. 528 00:26:01,838 --> 00:26:03,059 It needs to be more than that. 529 00:26:03,059 --> 00:26:07,283 Absolutely, think it's the repurposing of content that's kind of interesting 530 00:26:07,153 --> 00:26:08,153 Yes. 531 00:26:07,444 --> 00:26:08,444 as well from my point of view. 532 00:26:08,401 --> 00:26:10,106 I know you did a Doctor Who thing as well, 533 00:26:10,106 --> 00:26:12,619 which obviously has got kind of guaranteed fan base, 534 00:26:10,982 --> 00:26:13,744 Yeah, 535 00:26:12,619 --> 00:26:13,619 right? 536 00:26:13,744 --> 00:26:15,425 we do that. do exhibitions as well. 537 00:26:15,425 --> 00:26:18,086 do, Doctor Who's got a fantastic fan base, 538 00:26:18,086 --> 00:26:21,447 fanatical fans who really are, 539 00:26:21,447 -->

00:26:23,575 yeah, always amazing. They dress up, 540 00:26:23,575 --> 00:26:26,180 they come, they know every single fact. 541 00:26:26,180 --> 00:26:28,702 They're brilliant. So we'll do, 542 00:26:28,702 --> 00:26:31,543 yeah, we'll do exhibitions. We're doing an exhibition at the moment currently, 543 00:26:31,543 --> 00:26:34,915 which is being developed in Australia about the making of Bluey 544 00:26:34,915 --> 00:26:36,556 and that'll tour globally. So. 545 00:26:36,752 --> 00:26:38,354 All of those things are part of our lives, 546 00:26:38,354 --> 00:26:44,550 like events business. I think given the sort of amount of global hits that we have, 547 00:26:44,550 --> 00:26:47,992 particularly at the moment, we really are punching above our weight. 548 00:26:48,364 --> 00:26:53,555 It's amazing when you know that we know the money Disney makes from its line, 549 00:26:53,555 --> 00:26:55,836 know, that's Disney, Disney Cruises and everything, 550 00:26:55,836 --> 00:26:57,696 huge, huge, huge money, isn't it? 551 00:26:57,024 --> 00:26:59,007 Yes. Yeah. 552 00:26:57,696 --> 00:27:00,907 So it's an enormous market. That's fascinating. 553 00:27:00,907 --> 00:27:05,438 is there, so that's the kind of the live event side of things and then 554 00:27:05,438 --> 00:27:10,800 the motion gallery. guess the radio and music is the third tranche of your kind 555 00:27:08,867 --> 00:27:09,867 Yeah. 556 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,000 of role, So tell us a bit of an overview of what. 557 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,000 what that is, 558 00:27:14,022 --> 00:27:15,843 I mean, it's the radio music. Well, 559 00:27:15,843 --> 00:27:18,305 our business here consists of a licensing business. 560 00:27:18,305 --> 00:27:21,546 It's licensing out and that's licensing out BBC Masters. 561 00:27:21,546 --> 00:27:25,688 And there's loads of BBC recorded sessions at Maida Vale 562 00:27:25,688 --> 00:27:27,229 or within Broadcasting House. 563 00:27:27,229 --> 00:27:30,221 live lounge sessions, John Peel sessions, 564 00:27:30,221 --> 00:27:33,374 all of those dating back. We license those out. 565 00:27:33,374 --> 00:27:36,997 have, we license them to record companies or to artists. 566 00:27:36,997 --> 00:27:40,399 that's Amy Winehouse Live at the BBC. 567 00:27:40,399 --> 00:27:43,741 And so we have recorded releases out from that. 568 00:27:43,741 --> 00:27:47,364 There's a digital business. The digital business is mainly on, 569 00:27:47,364 --> 00:27:49,465 there's a BBC Symphony Orchestra toolkit. 570 00:27:49,465 --> 00:27:54,817 which is a deal I did with Spitfire Audio to basically record it. 571 00:27:54,817 --> 00:27:58,449 You can recreate the BBC Symphony Orchestra electronically, 572 00:27:58,449 --> 00:28:02,141 acts like a plugin. So for a composer who's doing a temp score, 573 00:28:02,141 --> 00:28:06,563 they can use it to do that temp score and then go and record an orchestra 574 00:28:06,563 --> 00:28:09,244 if the score is approved by the director. 575 00:28:09,244 --> 00:28:12,106 Or it's for hobbyists as well. 576 00:28:12,106 --> 00:28:14,180 It's available, there's three different entry level. 577 00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:15,988 There's an entry level version which is free. 578 00:28:16,038 --> 00:28:20,208 kids can learn about the orchestral music and use it on a file size which 579 00:28:20,208 --> 00:28:21,708 is really easily downloadable. 580 00:28:21,708 --> 00:28:26,430 Then there's an intermediary version which hobbyists can use who like creating music 581 00:28:26,430 --> 00:28:30,491 and a professional version. So that's often used in conjunction with actually 582 00:28:30,531 --> 00:28:35,091 recorded orchestras. So it's all meant they use it to augment the recording. 583 00:28:35,091 --> 00:28:37,872 But it's made a huge amount of money for the performing groups. 584 00:28:37,872 --> 00:28:38,872 So 585 00:28:38,432 --> 00:28:43,126 that's not easy to do and they need that funding so that's been fantastic 586 00:28:42,442 --> 00:28:43,442 Mm-hmm. 587 00:28:43,126 --> 00:28:48,570 and BBC Symphony Orchestra's brand has benefited globally as a result of that. 588 00:28:48,570 --> 00:28:51,692 We also have done one recently with the Radiophonic Workshop which 589 00:28:51,692 --> 00:28:53,924 is a similar toolkit which is available by them. 590 00:28:53,924 --> 00:28:56,966 So that's using sounds from the Radiophonic Workshop. 591 00:28:56,966 --> 00:28:58,486 which I mean, that's a whole other story, 592 00:28:58,486 --> 00:29:02,406 the BBC Radiophonic Workshop, but from the BBC Radiophonic Workshop's archive, 593 00:29:02,406 --> 00:29:04,446 recreating the sounds that they did, 594 00:29:04,446 --> 00:29:09,946 they created, they're basically inspired so many of the electronic music artists 595 00:29:09,946 --> 00:29:13,826 of today, because they were pioneers in creating new ways of making sounds, 596 00:29:13,826 --> 00:29:16,866 cutting up tape, running keys down the back of pianos and strings, 597 00:29:16,866 --> 00:29:19,026 just recording really interesting, 598 00:29:19,026 --> 00:29:22,186 fascinating things, and then putting them through different devices. 599 00:29:22,546 --> 00:29:23,987 So yeah, that's the digital business. 600 00:29:23,142 --> 00:29:24,142 out. 601 00:29:23,987 --> 00:29:25,687 Then there's a music publishing business. 602 00:29:25,687 --> 00:29:29,968 we publish all the specially composed music across all genres of 603 00:29:29,968 --> 00:29:35,791 BBC programming and radio, idents and jingles and that kind 604 00:29:35,791 --> 00:29:38,991 of stuff. the main thing about music publishing, 605 00:29:38,991 --> 00:29:41,832 the key to music publishing basically is secondary exploitation. 606 00:29:41,832 --> 00:29:43,582 So with that music that we publish, 607 00:29:43,582 --> 00:29:45,193 which is basically underscore. 608 00:29:45,193 --> 00:29:48,645 The best way to secondary exploit that is by reversioning it, 609 00:29:48,645 -->

00:29:50,926 retitling it and putting it into a library. 610 00:29:50,926 --> 00:29:53,547 So I set up the BBC Production Music Library. 611 00:29:53,547 --> 00:29:57,149 It's a crowded marketplace, but our USP are the BBC blocks. 612 00:29:57,149 --> 00:30:00,390 and we reversion and re-title the music that we have so it's not just sat 613 00:30:00,390 --> 00:30:02,493 on a shelf and it's available to our, 614 00:30:02,493 --> 00:30:06,657 it's available globally but it's available to BBC producers and TV makers 615 00:30:06,877 --> 00:30:12,401 but also globally and has been a great success over the last 14 years. 616 00:30:06,962 --> 00:30:07,962 Wow. 617 00:30:12,401 --> 00:30:13,762 Check it out if you haven't seen it, 618 00:30:13,762 --> 00:30:18,066 BBC Production Music. So we're constantly developing that. 619 00:30:18,066 --> 00:30:19,727 That's a joint venture with Universal. 620 00:30:19,727 --> 00:30:23,827 We've now just added a natural language search to it. 621 00:30:23,827 --> 00:30:27,467 you can instead of, you know, some people are good at putting a music brief into 622 00:30:27,467 --> 00:30:29,387 a search. Sometimes harder than others. 623 00:30:29,387 --> 00:30:32,067 Now you can actually, you can put a screen, 624 00:30:32,067 --> 00:30:36,747 can put, you could, you could actually talk into it and say someone's walking down 625 00:30:36,747 --> 00:30:38,787 the street, two police cars are going by, 626 00:30:38,787 --> 00:30:42,867 they're being chased by a man with a dog and it'll come up with music which matches, 627 00:30:42,867 --> 00:30:45,087 which it feels matches that. It's absolutely unbelievable. 628 00:30:44,859 --> 00:30:45,859 That's 629 00:30:45,395 --> 00:30:46,395 awesome. 630 00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:48,571 Yeah, so check out BBCProductionMusic.com. 631 00:30:48,571 --> 00:30:51,864 Really proud of it. So that's another bit and spot on with licensing, 632 00:30:51,864 --> 00:30:56,696 digital, yeah, music publishing and production music. 633 00:30:56,696 --> 00:30:58,417 That's basically, that's the most, 634 00:30:57,266 --> 00:30:58,266 So. 635 00:30:58,417 --> 00:31:01,009 we also do records, we do all the soundtracks, 636 00:31:01,009 --> 00:31:03,511 but the records business used to be much bigger when there were 637 00:31:03,511 --> 00:31:05,422 TV advertised compilation market. 638 00:31:05,422 --> 00:31:09,996 I did all the Radio 1 live launch albums and then we sold about four million albums. 639 00:31:09,996 --> 00:31:11,247 It was huge business. 640 00:31:11,247 --> 00:31:14,328 but that's obviously changed. But we still release soundtracks. 641 00:31:14,328 --> 00:31:16,558 We work a lot with a label called Silver Screen, 642 00:31:16,558 --> 00:31:20,281 who are a music and TV score label, 643 00:31:20,281 --> 00:31:22,562 brilliant record label, old school record label. 644 00:31:22,562 --> 00:31:24,733 Still feels like a record label when you go in there, 645 00:31:24,733 --> 00:31:27,024 they've got records in there and stuff like that. 646 00:31:27,024 --> 00:31:28,554 So they're great to work with. 647 00:31:28,554 --> 00:31:30,845 So we have records business as well, 648 00:31:30,845 --> 00:31:33,106 though it's not as sizeable as it once was. 649 00:31:34,298 --> 00:31:35,298 Was 650 00:31:34,499 --> 00:31:38,427 this all you, Dominic? You came up with all this different departments. 651 00:31:36,595 --> 00:31:39,695 That sounds terrible. 652 00:31:39,695 --> 00:31:41,795 It's all me. No, well, it's not all me. 653 00:31:41,795 --> 00:31:43,355 There's a team of people. no, did, 654 00:31:43,355 --> 00:31:46,255 BBC Production Music was me. I did set that up. 655 00:31:46,255 --> 00:31:48,775 So that was my idea. And Symphony Orchestra Talk, 656 00:31:48,775 --> 00:31:50,235 was as well, and all those things. 657 00:31:50,235 --> 00:31:53,923 But yeah, there's... It's not all about me. 658 00:31:52,446 --> 00:31:53,587 And if you're a production 659 00:31:54,088 --> 00:31:59,505 company, can go to Getty and you can licence the publishing side, 660 00:31:59,505 --> 00:32:01,478 the music licensing through Getty. 661 00:32:00,617 --> 00:32:01,958 Anyone could, anyone 662 00:32:01,958 --> 00:32:03,460 can, no that's through Universal, 663 00:32:03,460 --> 00:32:05,119 so it's a joint venture with Universal. 664 00:32:05,119 --> 00:32:07,885 You just go to bbcproductionmusic.com and away you go. 665 00:32:07,479 --> 00:32:09,479 Cool. Interesting. 666 00:32:07,885 --> 00:32:10,448 We have our own landing page. Yeah, 667 00:32:10,448 --> 00:32:14,283 and it's covered by the BBC blanket for BBC users as well, 668 00:32:14,283 --> 00:32:17,476 so it's free for any BBC production to use. 669 00:32:17,476 --> 00:32:20,316 So that probably takes you about half the week. 670 00:32:17,508 --> 00:32:18,508 Amazing. 671 00:32:20,316 --> 00:32:21,436 What do you do for the rest of the week, 672 00:32:21,436 --> 00:33:06,256 Dom? That's a lot. 673 00:32:21,956 --> 00:32:22,956 You 674 00:32:22,514 --> 00:32:23,514 Yeah. 675 00:33:06,256 --> 00:33:08,456 mean, from a strategic point of view, 676 00:33:08,456 --> 00:33:15,156 it's challenging. mean, because it sounds to me like you cobble together deals based 677 00:33:15,156 --> 00:33:18,116 on the quality of the IP, really, 678 00:33:18,116 --> 00:33:20,333 right? So the IP is everything for you. 679 00:33:35,333 --> 00:33:36,333 Yes. 680 00:33:36,696 --> 00:33:39,016 I'm interested in what you said about podcasts and things like that, 681 00:33:39,016 --> 00:33:40,076 obviously, because we're on one today, 682 00:33:40,102 --> 00:33:42,298 is that a growing sector? I I, 683 00:33:42,298 --> 00:33:45,712 listened to a lot of BBC podcasts and I'm sure a lot of the people do, 684 00:33:44,817 --> 00:33:45,817 Yeah. 685 00:33:45,712 --> 00:33:47,334 but where do you see that business going? 686 00:33:47,334 --> 00:33:49,386 Is that potentially going to be some growth there? 687 00:33:49,386 -->

00:33:50,386 that 688 00:33:49,626 --> 00:33:53,197 I think, no, the same as in program making, 689 00:33:53,197 --> 00:33:56,459 if you're making programs, same as if you're working with recording artists 690 00:33:56,459 --> 00:33:58,069 in a way, you're hedge betting, 691 00:33:58,069 --> 00:34:00,831 aren't you? Because you don't know which one's really going to click. 692 00:34:00,831 --> 00:34:04,163 They're all good. You'd like to think that you're not making anything that's 693 00:34:04,163 --> 00:34:05,723 rubbish. So you're making all good programs, 694 00:34:05,723 --> 00:34:07,034 but some will get a rub of the green. 695 00:34:07,034 --> 00:34:10,075 You'll get certain circumstances will happen at the right time. 696 00:34:10,075 --> 00:34:12,176 It's on a streamer that happens to be up, 697 00:34:12,176 --> 00:34:15,399 you know, getting, doing a focus on getting more subscribers at that time. 698 00:34:15,399 --> 00:34:17,370 You know, you need a perfect storm, 699 00:34:17,370 --> 00:34:21,323 whatever, to have a hit. That's the same with podcasts and the podcast market 700 00:34:21,323 --> 00:34:24,246 is flooded, but certain podcasts are a means to an end. 701 00:34:24,246 --> 00:34:26,867 So if it's, if it's a talent or someone that's, 702 00:34:26,867 --> 00:34:30,320 that's keeping their, maintaining their public profile in order to do 703 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,011 the rest of what they do, then, 704 00:34:32,011 --> 00:34:33,633 then that's good and interesting. 705 00:34:33,633 --> 00:34:34,633 But, but, 706 00:34:34,535 --> 00:34:37,116 but otherwise it's very tough and you need a rub of the green. 707 00:34:37,116 --> 00:34:39,156 fundamental to all of these things, 708 00:34:39,156 --> 00:34:41,396 immersive experiences, programs, 709 00:34:41,396 --> 00:34:44,337 whatever, is, to me, is the story. 710 00:34:44,337 --> 00:34:46,137 You it needs to have a good story. 711 00:34:46,137 --> 00:34:49,829 going into any, yeah, like so we'll do Steve Blackshaw, 712 00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:55,911 did a Deadly 60 tour live. Now he is such a fantastic talent because you're doing 713 00:34:55,911 --> 00:34:57,441 arenas and it's pretty much... 714 00:34:57,441 --> 00:35:00,261 him on stage and he has the audience, 715 00:35:00,261 --> 00:35:01,361 you they know all the answers, 716 00:35:01,361 --> 00:35:05,121 they know his stuff, he's completely engaging and he'll have dinosaurs come 717 00:35:05,121 --> 00:35:09,061 on the stage but they're just obviously not trying to be realistic dinosaurs, 718 00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:08,159 you 719 00:35:09,061 --> 00:35:12,501 they're just representing it but your imagination does the rest, 720 00:35:12,501 --> 00:35:14,721 it's because the story he's telling is compelling. 721 00:35:14,721 --> 00:35:16,973 So nothing is good without that. 722 00:35:16,973 --> 00:35:18,625 That's fundamental to everything, 723 00:35:18,625 --> 00:35:22,279 the story is there. And I think that's the same with any podcast. 724 00:35:22,279 --> 00:35:25,582 It has to have that, at its heart, 725 00:35:24,141 --> 00:35:25,141 Mm. 726 00:35:25,582 --> 00:35:26,903 what story is it telling you? 727 00:35:26,903 --> 00:35:31,613 Yeah, I mean, think think that show and I think authenticity and connecting with 728 00:35:31,613 --> 00:35:33,117 the audience is the hardest thing. 729 00:35:33,117 --> 00:35:35,899 mean, and so that that does mean that, 730 00:35:35,899 --> 00:35:39,492 you know, you've obviously got that barometer within you of through 731 00:35:39,492 --> 00:35:42,214 all the experience. I you can smell smell stuff, 732 00:35:42,214 --> 00:35:43,645 which is important, right? I mean, 733 00:35:43,645 --> 00:35:46,367 do you find the creative because it sounds really creative. 734 00:35:46,367 --> 00:35:48,138 I mean, it makes me want to come work at the BBC, 735 00:35:48,138 --> 00:35:49,669 frankly, because there's like this. 736 00:35:48,729 --> 00:35:49,729 Hahaha 737 00:35:49,669 --> 00:35:51,150 There's so much stuff going on, 738 00:35:51,150 --> 00:35:52,451 right? I mean, it's like really, 739 00:35:51,865 --> 00:35:52,865 Yeah. 740 00:35:52,451 --> 00:35:54,933 to me, it's really exciting because you're kind of 741 00:35:54,933 --> 00:35:59,566 getting to try different stuff and you've got this crossover across these mediums, 742 00:35:59,566 --> 00:36:01,267 which I think is, at least in my experience, 743 00:36:00,924 --> 00:36:01,924 Yeah. 744 00:36:01,267 --> 00:36:05,229 relatively rare. Do you get excited about where things are going or do 745 00:36:05,229 --> 00:36:10,992 you find that the sort of Damocles with the license fee and not knowing what's going 746 00:36:10,992 --> 00:36:14,094 on with the BBC, does that make life difficult at times? 747 00:36:12,849 --> 00:36:14,520 No, 748 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,901 that doesn't bother me. In fact, 749 00:36:15,901 --> 00:36:17,692 you know, like being the commercial arm, 750 00:36:17,692 --> 00:36:19,162 needed even more so it's better. 751 00:36:19,162 --> 00:36:21,042 So it opens more doors for us internally. 752 00:36:21,042 --> 00:36:25,386 People are more respectful to us from when I joined. 753 00:36:25,386 --> 00:36:27,127 I said to one person when I joined, 754 00:36:27,127 --> 00:36:28,778 make me feel like a brush salesman. 755 00:36:28,778 --> 00:36:31,168 You don't mean it was like the commercial guy. 756 00:36:31,168 --> 00:36:37,513 But now they understand what we do and they 757 00:36:31,344 --> 00:36:32,344 you 758 00:36:37,513 --> 00:36:38,713 see the benefits. So it's good. 759 00:36:38,713 --> 00:36:40,976 So we work very well together. 760 00:36:40,976 --> 00:36:42,568 Now I find it exciting, listen, 761 00:36:42,568 --> 00:36:46,342 across the areas I have, there are synergies across all the areas. 762 00:36:46,342 --> 00:36:49,337 So if it's for music publishing. 763 00:36:49,337 --> 00:36:53,538 understanding the rate or what the composer will learn

from doing a 764 00:36:53,538 --> 00:36:57,909 set of live concerts in arenas is important for them because that makes them 765 00:36:55,509 --> 00:36:56,509 Mm-hmm. 766 00:36:57,909 --> 00:37:01,681 a great deal of money and therefore understanding if they do arrangements that help 767 00:37:01,681 --> 00:37:03,752 us then it benefits them in the long term. 768 00:37:03,752 --> 00:37:08,053 there are synergies there, there's synergies with the archive and that content that 769 00:37:08,053 --> 00:37:10,755 goes into live events or all of those things. 770 00:37:10,897 --> 00:37:13,929 It is creative. That's the beauty of what we've got used. 771 00:37:13,929 --> 00:37:17,690 You can be really creative, but the difference is understanding 772 00:37:17,791 --> 00:37:19,271 the difference between could and would. 773 00:37:19,271 --> 00:37:22,119 You know, anyone could say, ~ you could do, 774 00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:23,861 planet Earth, Cirque du Soleil, 775 00:37:23,861 --> 00:37:24,872 that would be brilliant. said, 776 00:37:24,872 --> 00:37:28,366 yeah, but would they do that? Why would they give us a share of their ticket price? 777 00:37:28,366 --> 00:37:29,366 What are we going to add to it? 778 00:37:29,347 --> 00:37:31,289 What's going to sell it? And, you know, 779 00:37:31,289 --> 00:37:34,373 so, yes, being creative, coming up with ideas, 780 00:37:34,373 --> 00:37:38,107 and I'm old enough now to, and I'm not. 781 00:37:38,107 --> 00:37:39,618 worry about coming up with an idea, 782 00:37:39,618 --> 00:37:41,389 everyone laughs at it goes, that's ridiculous. 783 00:37:41,389 --> 00:37:44,450 I'd rather do that. And if it stimulates someone to have another idea 784 00:37:44,450 --> 00:37:46,731 or shows them to be free and let ideas out, 785 00:37:46,731 --> 00:37:50,043 something will come of it. Or it might even be something that clicks. 786 00:37:50,043 --> 00:37:53,904 might be a good idea, but I'd rather encourage in my team to be free to 787 00:37:53,904 --> 00:37:56,235 go just say it. That, know, so what? 788 00:37:56,235 --> 00:37:58,597 It's only an idea. You come up with another one. 789 00:37:58,597 --> 00:38:00,497 But then once you have those ideas, 790 00:38:00,497 --> 00:38:02,859 quickly identify what's a cul-de-sac and what isn't. 791 00:38:02,859 --> 00:38:05,080 Because if we drive forever up a cul-de-sac, 792 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:06,150 we're not going to make any money. 793 00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:07,621 So you still have to have that decision. 794 00:38:07,621 --> 00:38:08,621 simply. 795 00:38:08,536 --> 00:38:13,996 Yeah, I mean, I think from my perspective is if you're an archive producer working 796 00:38:13,996 --> 00:38:18,096 for the BBC, do they go through directly to the BBC or do they? 797 00:38:18,096 --> 00:38:20,236 Because there's an internal system at the BBC, 798 00:38:19,628 --> 00:38:21,113 Yeah, there's an internal system 799 00:38:20,236 --> 00:38:21,236 isn't there? 800 00:38:21,113 --> 00:38:22,586 which they can use, yeah. Yeah. 801 00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:24,576 So they don't have to go through Getty. 802 00:38:24,576 --> 00:38:26,965 don't... Okay. 803 00:38:25,091 --> 00:38:27,576 No. Yeah. 804 00:38:28,029 --> 00:38:30,344 Yeah, no, they don't. Sorry, that's a really short answer. 805 00:38:30,344 --> 00:38:33,542 don't know how to make that bit longer. 806 00:38:33,690 --> 00:38:35,211 No, I mean what So 807 00:38:35,211 --> 00:38:39,674 can you just explain the process say if they because you got teams internally 808 00:38:39,674 --> 00:38:43,675 at the BBC that will do the research and everything for you can they 809 00:38:43,416 --> 00:38:44,416 Yeah. 810 00:38:43,675 --> 00:38:46,577 go through to you guys or do they have to go through getty and search 811 00:38:46,577 --> 00:38:48,118 on their website or 812 00:38:47,190 --> 00:38:48,200 No, they don't have to go through 813 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,073 Getty. They can go internally. 814 00:38:50,073 --> 00:38:53,667 They can search themselves. And they've got an internal licensing team that will 815 00:38:52,788 --> 00:38:53,788 Bye. 816 00:38:53,667 --> 00:38:54,667 help them. 817 00:38:54,088 --> 00:38:56,596 And is it free for internal productions? 818 00:38:56,596 --> 00:38:58,289 Yeah, they can use the archive for... 819 00:38:58,289 --> 00:38:59,806 Yeah. 820 00:38:59,806 --> 00:39:03,457 And then the only other question I had to ask you, 821 00:39:03,457 --> 00:39:05,750 because speaking to archive producers, 822 00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:08,862 talent, how easy is it to clear talent at the BBC? 823 00:39:08,862 --> 00:39:11,303 Because obviously you've got so many big names there. 824 00:39:11,303 --> 00:39:14,625 It depends what you're clearing them for and it depends who the talent 825 00:39:14,625 --> 00:39:16,886 is and what level they are. Normally, 826 00:39:15,684 --> 00:39:16,684 Yeah. 827 00:39:16,886 --> 00:39:19,727 if we're working with with a brand, 828 00:39:19,727 --> 00:39:21,227 there's a public service brand, 829 00:39:21,227 --> 00:39:24,098 they won't have the rights that we need to commercialise it. 830 00:39:24,098 --> 00:39:26,389 So we'll have to go back and do individual deals. 831 00:39:26,389 --> 00:39:27,749 And some are easier than others. 832 00:39:26,734 --> 00:39:27,734 Yeah. 833 00:39:27,749 --> 00:39:30,731 And that just depends on the agent and what level they... 834 00:39:30,731 --> 00:39:32,123 or what the talent wants to do, 835 00:39:32,123 --> 00:39:34,145 or some of them then can go and do their own thing. 836 00:39:34,145 --> 00:39:36,629 So, yeah, that's always a challenge, 837 00:39:34,156 --> 00:39:35,156 Yeah. 838 00:39:36,629 --> 00:39:39,242 but that's just the nature of working with public service. 839 00:39:39,242 --> 00:39:44,614 advice would you give to somebody Dominic that wants to get into those three areas 840 00:39:44,614 --> 00:39:46,944 that you're in? How do they go about it? 841 00:39:46,944 -->

00:39:52,076 I mean, I know the BBC have a lot of educational and work experience courses, 842 00:39:52,076 --> 00:39:56,827 but if you want to get into doing what you're doing and doing what you did, 843 00:39:56,827 --> 00:39:58,888 what would your big piece of advice be? 844 00:39:58,888 --> 00:40:03,295 Very difficult now, I think, because I come from completely different world where 845 00:40:03,295 --> 00:40:04,997 you were in a phone box, boning up, 846 00:40:04,997 --> 00:40:07,561 trying to blag an interview to get to work for Terry King. 847 00:40:07,561 --> 00:40:09,404 I stopped, I was driving as a... 848 00:40:09,496 --> 00:40:13,296 I was driving a van for a motor spares company and I'd seen an advert melody maker, 849 00:40:13,296 --> 00:40:18,036 I pulled over to the side of the road and got a really unfriendly bloke 850 00:40:18,036 --> 00:40:21,316 at the other end of a line on a phone box and blagged my way in for an interview. 851 00:40:21,316 --> 00:40:23,156 That's completely different. So I don't really, 852 00:40:23,156 --> 00:40:25,375 that doesn't happen now. I think there are schemes, 853 00:40:25,375 --> 00:40:27,876 there are courses, there are college courses, 854 00:40:27,876 --> 00:40:30,516 you know, for music bids there are... 855 00:40:30,702 --> 00:40:34,774 you know, BIM, all of these kind of universities where you can 856 00:40:34,774 --> 00:40:37,912 get degrees tailored to specific parts of the music business, 857 00:40:37,912 --> 00:40:41,387 which gives you a head start in terms of approaching a company and saying 858 00:40:41,387 --> 00:40:44,998 you have that kind of skill set or that you have that bit of knowledge. 859 00:40:44,998 --> 00:40:48,479 But then I would say reach out to any apprentice schemes that you can. 860 00:40:48,479 --> 00:40:52,291 Very difficult because I think you really need to explore how what you're submitting 861 00:40:52,291 --> 00:40:55,762 electronically, because some things are just dismissed by they get 862 00:40:55,762 --> 00:40:58,724 so many coming in, so many applications. 863 00:40:57,180 --> 00:40:58,180 Mmm. 864 00:40:58,724 --> 00:41:01,764 that you can just be dismissed by AI, 865 00:41:01,764 --> 00:41:03,365 right? So you have to get past that. 866 00:41:02,613 --> 00:41:03,613 Yeah. 867 00:41:03,365 --> 00:41:05,887 I can't tell you how to do that because I didn't, 868 00:41:05,887 --> 00:41:08,228 I did it in a phone box. don't know. 869 00:41:08,228 --> 00:41:10,789 It terrifies me. You know, I've got young kids, 870 00:41:10,789 --> 00:41:12,430 not that young anymore, but you know, 871 00:41:12,430 --> 00:41:13,921 they're all faced with that. It's really, 872 00:41:13,921 --> 00:41:16,392 really difficult. You know, networking, 873 00:41:16,392 --> 00:41:19,874 putting yourself out there, being prepared to do something for nothing, 874 00:41:19,874 --> 00:41:22,396 being a runner on a show. They're always looking for runners. 875 00:41:22,396 --> 00:41:23,857 I'd set up a couple of people with... 876 00:41:23,857 --> 00:41:26,690 on later being a runner on later and stuff like that and they've 877 00:41:26,690 --> 00:41:29,022 got great experience. One of the guys then went on to work on 878 00:41:29,022 --> 00:41:32,444 the Glastonbury for the BBC and gets experience that way. 879 00:41:32,444 --> 00:41:35,005 So I think we have to be prepared to do that and some of 880 00:41:35,005 --> 00:41:37,568 the younger generation perhaps aren't as prepared as we were to do 881 00:41:37,568 --> 00:41:41,641 it for nothing and they expect some recommends it's different, 882 00:41:38,794 --> 00:41:39,794 Hmm. 883 00:41:41,641 --> 00:41:43,222 you know, different mentality. 884 00:41:43,222 --> 00:41:48,326 ~ and doing those three areas is unique in the sense that 885 00:41:44,103 --> 00:41:45,103 No. 886 00:41:48,326 --> 00:41:51,979 because of the way I started out or the things that I've done have led to that. 887 00:41:51,979 --> 00:41:53,991 There aren't many with that breadth, 888 00:41:53,991 --> 00:41:58,675 that's something you build up over the years and just by doing what you have to do. 889 00:42:00,251 --> 00:42:01,251 And the other question 890 00:42:01,132 --> 00:42:04,067 I had for you is, mean, a lot of your material, 891 00:42:04,067 --> 00:42:08,884 you said is not digitized. Are you guys actively restoring 892 00:42:08,884 --> 00:42:11,668 and preserving that content and getting it up to 3K, 893 00:42:09,748 --> 00:42:10,748 Yes. 894 00:42:11,668 --> 00:42:12,769 2K or 4K or? 895 00:42:13,449 --> 00:42:14,449 We do restore 896 00:42:14,250 --> 00:42:15,861 it, always obviously have to, you know, 897 00:42:15,861 --> 00:42:18,074 that's a constant thing to review storage. 898 00:42:18,074 --> 00:42:19,395 What's the most effective way, 899 00:42:19,395 --> 00:42:21,177 cost effective way of doing that? 900 00:42:21,177 --> 00:42:24,590 What's, you know, there's a balance between cloud storage or, 901 00:42:24,590 --> 00:42:26,792 you know, all of those kinds of things. 902 00:42:26,792 --> 00:42:30,536 So we just actually recently done quite a bit of work on part of the archive 903 00:42:30,536 --> 00:42:33,568 on that and finding the most cost effective way of doing it. 904 00:42:33,568 --> 00:42:35,650 That's something we always have to keep an eye on. 905 00:42:35,650 --> 00:42:40,910 Yeah, and is that any you keeping the tapes or you gonna just once you've digitized 906 00:42:40,910 --> 00:42:44,136 it other material was kept or they The originals 907 00:42:43,474 --> 00:42:44,474 Am I 908 00:42:44,264 --> 00:42:47,305 allowed to put, I don't know the obvious answer but I don't want to 909 00:42:47,305 --> 00:42:49,526 say the answer to that anyway because someone will probably go, 910 00:42:49,361 --> 00:42:50,361 Okay. 911 00:42:49,526 --> 00:42:53,107 what they're losing the tape, they'll be up in art. 912 00:42:51,295 --> 00:42:52,295 Hahaha 913 00:42:52,486 -->

00:42:53,486 Haha 914 00:42:53,107 --> 00:42:59,359 No, ~ because I can't tell 915 00:42:55,049 --> 00:42:56,049 That's it. 916 00:42:55,196 --> 00:42:57,496 That's fine. I'll let you off on that one. 917 00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:00,940 the other story online but yeah. 918 00:43:00,940 --> 00:43:06,241 But no, to say that that content will be preserved and in a way that it's never 919 00:43:02,739 --> 00:43:03,739 No. 920 00:43:06,241 --> 00:43:08,291 lost. That's the political answer to that. 921 00:43:07,288 --> 00:43:08,288 Good. 922 00:43:08,669 --> 00:43:12,409 I remember from my days, I used to work at BBC Studios and Post Production. 923 00:43:12,409 --> 00:43:14,362 I'm not sure if that still exists no more, 924 00:43:14,362 --> 00:43:18,584 but we used to do a lot restoring for BBC Motion Gallery and working with 925 00:43:18,124 --> 00:43:19,124 Yeah. 926 00:43:18,584 --> 00:43:20,235 the Motion Gallery team. Yeah. 927 00:43:20,235 --> 00:43:22,878 That's why it's all so safe, Sandra. 928 00:43:22,878 --> 00:43:25,562 It's all... you looked after it. 929 00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:24,750 I know. 930 00:43:26,521 --> 00:43:27,735 That's 931 00:43:27,735 --> 00:43:30,395 important thing right, know, I it's yeah. 932 00:43:29,450 --> 00:43:31,331 Now it's fundamental to any archive, 933 00:43:29,629 --> 00:43:30,629 Yeah. 934 00:43:31,331 --> 00:43:32,742 know, joking aside, it's 935 00:43:32,742 --> 00:43:35,713 fundamental to any archive. And that's why I'm saying that I'm 936 00:43:35,713 --> 00:43:37,774 not answering that question about the tapes or whatever, 937 00:43:37,774 --> 00:43:43,096 because that's also extremely sensitive for archivists and people involved in that. 938 00:43:43,096 --> 00:43:46,248 And, you know, you can't be flippant about that. 939 00:43:44,020 --> 00:43:45,020 Hmm. 940 00:43:46,248 --> 00:43:48,589 This just, you know, in all seriousness, 941 00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:47,700 Mmm. 942 00:43:48,589 --> 00:43:52,261 talks about archiving its power in telling a story and its power 943 00:43:52,261 --> 00:43:53,842 of actually showing us what... 944 00:43:53,842 --> 00:43:56,642 lessons we should learn and all of those kind of things, 945 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:56,120 Mmm. 946 00:43:56,642 --> 00:43:59,722 it can't be dismissed lightly. 947 00:43:59,544 --> 00:44:00,544 Yeah. 948 00:43:59,944 --> 00:44:01,585 I have a quick question for you, 949 00:44:00,383 --> 00:44:01,383 Mm. 950 00:44:01,585 --> 00:44:03,766 which I guess is kind of the future. 951 00:44:03,766 --> 00:44:06,455 talking about IP, we came across a company recently, 952 00:44:06,455 --> 00:44:09,750 it's an AI company. And obviously this is ability to reinvigorate 953 00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:14,764 the estates of dead artists and use their voices to narrate 954 00:44:14,764 --> 00:44:17,155 or use their performances to create new stuff. 955 00:44:17,155 --> 00:44:20,038 Where do you stand on, you know, 956 00:44:20,038 --> 00:44:23,830 that ability for

music, past music artists, 957 00:44:23,830 --> 00:44:25,912 people who've died for their catalogs to be kind of 958 00:44:25,912 --> 00:44:28,103 rejuvenated with AI technology, 959 00:44:28,103 --> 00:44:32,743 and bring out perhaps potentially live events for, 960 00:44:32,743 --> 00:44:34,913 I don't know, a comedian, let's say, 961 00:44:34,913 --> 00:44:37,526 the Goon Show or something like that you could recreate. 962 00:44:37,526 --> 00:44:41,848 Have you come across those kind of concepts before and are you interested in those? 963 00:44:40,996 --> 00:44:43,460 I've had so many tickets. the, 964 00:44:41,848 --> 00:44:44,978 Could have, could have, 965 00:44:43,460 --> 00:44:48,027 but if it's a big, 966 00:44:44,978 --> 00:44:45,978 right? Yeah. 967 00:44:48,027 --> 00:44:49,960 listen, I would be open minded. 968 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,752 think AI there's a, you know, 969 00:44:51,752 --> 00:44:56,393 it'll settle down in a way and people will find great uses for AI creatively 970 00:44:56,393 --> 00:45:00,764 as well that it can be used. But you always need human creativity so 971 00:45:00,764 --> 00:45:02,464 it shouldn't be the cart before the horse. 972 00:45:02,464 --> 00:45:06,475 So the story and the human creativity comes first and if there's a way 973 00:45:06,475 --> 00:45:11,406 of making it easier to tell that story or facilitating it or if you start with 974 00:45:11,406 --> 00:45:15,807 a blank canvas opening up that canvas by using AI then it's good and 975 00:45:15,807 --> 00:45:19,268 I think that's how it will find I think it will naturally find that balance 976 00:45:19,268 --> 00:45:20,388 but it has to be up. 977 00:45:20,388 --> 00:45:26,839 about human creativity. But if you are representing the big artists music catalog, 978 00:45:26,839 --> 00:45:29,679 it depends on your attitude. If you knew the artist, 979 00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:31,910 if the artist has passed away, 980 00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:34,801 then you knew their attitude towards this. 981 00:45:34,801 --> 00:45:37,222 You may that may inform your decision. 982 00:45:37,222 --> 00:45:39,983 But if they were free and open to any of those things, 983 00:45:39,983 --> 00:45:41,363 you may well be saying, listen, 984 00:45:41,363 --> 00:45:43,104 why not create a hologram? Why not? 985 00:45:43,104 --> 00:45:47,480 use AI to generate something which can breathe new life into 986 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,412 a fantastic catalogue of songs. 987 00:45:49,412 --> 00:45:51,865 So I would be extremely open minded to that. 988 00:45:51,865 --> 00:45:54,358 Yeah, I mean, I think there's potential there. 989 00:45:54,358 --> 00:45:57,071 But you're right, you know, it's the commercial angle, 990 00:45:56,998 --> 00:45:58,331 Yeah, but not everything 991 00:45:57,071 --> 00:45:58,282 whether it will work or not. 992 00:45:58,331 --> 00:46:00,346 will do it's everyone thinks great we'll do that with everything. 993 00:46:00,346 --> 00:46:02,009 No, not everything's going to work like that, 994 00:46:00,856 --> 00:46:02,969 Yeah. Yeah. 995 00:46:02,009 --> 00:46:03,009 you know. 996 00:46:03,498 --> 00:46:04,498 I think Dominic 997 00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:08,103 was trying Dominic I think Dom was trying to give you a pitch for a 998 00:46:08,103 --> 00:46:09,584 job in your department 999 00:46:19,347 --> 00:46:21,949 I've got an idea, right? No, no, 1000 00:46:21,335 --> 00:46:22,335 Hahaha 1001 00:46:21,949 --> 00:46:24,872 I've got lots of ideas. None of them ever do anything good. 1002 00:46:26,414 --> 00:46:29,685 so Dominic, we're going to be doing the quick fire round, 1003 00:46:29,685 --> 00:46:31,505 quick questions, quick answers. 1004 00:46:31,505 --> 00:46:33,896 You say the first thing that comes into your head. 1005 00:46:39,041 --> 00:46:44,173 Okay, today's quick fire round is brought to you by Bounce Post Production. 1006 00:46:44,173 --> 00:46:47,674 We trust them at Lola Clips for our digital storage needs. 1007 00:46:52,708 --> 00:46:55,234 So Dominic, favourite BBC programme? 1008 00:46:55,234 --> 00:46:58,210 ~ God. The news. 1009 00:46:58,448 --> 00:47:00,875 Favorite BBC live performance. 1010 00:47:00,875 --> 00:47:05,821 Alicia Keys lied for Radio 1 because I was there. 1011 00:47:05,556 --> 00:47:06,578 Black or white 1012 00:47:06,639 --> 00:47:08,884 archive or color archive? 1013 00:47:08,884 --> 00:47:09,884 don't Bugs. 1014 00:47:09,507 --> 00:47:10,780 Radio or television? 1015 00:47:10,780 --> 00:47:15,036 that's a difficult question isn't it because both really but but but listen like 1016 00:47:15,230 --> 00:47:16,230 you know radio 1017 00:47:16,058 --> 00:47:17,631 people forget how awesome radio is, 1018 00:47:17,631 --> 00:47:19,705 BBC radio in particular is brilliant. 1019 00:47:19,705 --> 00:47:22,270 Look at the breadth of content and stuff you can get up. 1020 00:47:22,634 --> 00:47:23,705 One item 1021 00:47:23,706 --> 00:47:28,942 from the BBC archive you'd rescue first if the building was on fire. 1022 00:47:28,942 --> 00:47:31,262 All the Radiophonic Workshop tapes, 1023 00:47:31,262 --> 00:47:33,702 because I know Marquez, who's a lovely man, 1024 00:47:33,702 --> 00:47:36,122 is the archivist and was in the Radiophonic Workshop, 1025 00:47:36,122 --> 00:47:38,562 would be after me if I didn't get those first. 1026 00:47:38,582 --> 00:47:42,066 What one word... No, 1027 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,080 Talk about ending on a low. is then, 1028 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,300 this not going to play well, is it? 1029 00:47:42,066 --> 00:47:45,670 this is the final one. What final question? 1030 00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:49,354 What's one word that sums up the BBC? 1031 00:47:50,050 --> 00:47:51,050 impartial 1032 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:52,200 Good. 1033 00:47:51,521 --> 00:47:52,521 Well done. 1034 00:47:52,182 --> 00:47:53,813 Well done. You still didn't 1035 00:47:53,813 --> 00:47:56,654 answer which if you could sit in on any recording. 1036 00:47:56,654 --> 00:47:57,776 You haven't thought. 1037 00:47:57,776 --> 00:48:00,447 I don't know, because I've sat in on quite a few, 1038 00:48:00,447 --> 00:48:02,993 I mean listen, I said the best performance ever, 1039 00:48:02,993 --> 00:48:05,616 right, at the BBC was Alicia Keys, 1040 00:48:05,616 --> 00:48:08,980 because I was privileged to go to Maida Vale in Maida Vale 3, 1041 00:48:08,980 --> 00:48:10,632 beautiful song, she's doing it, 1042 00:48:09,711 --> 00:48:10,711 Yeah. 1043 00:48:10,632 --> 00:48:11,632 everyone's recording there. 1044 00:48:11,904 --> 00:48:14,126 she played a session for Radio One. 1045 00:48:14,126 --> 00:48:16,458 I was probably about 12 feet away from her. 1046 00:48:16,458 --> 00:48:20,221 The band were amazing. So that was a recording session I was in on that. 1047 00:48:17,774 --> 00:48:18,774 She's amazing. 1048 00:48:20,221 --> 00:48:22,923 That still since she was down my spine. 1049 00:48:22,923 --> 00:48:24,294 was such a privilege to be there. 1050 00:48:24,294 --> 00:48:25,595 So I'd say that. 1051 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,981 Well, listen, we've taken, we got a one hour with you, 1052 00:48:29,981 --> 00:48:34,205 we're almost there. So we are hugely grateful for you taking the time to 1053 00:48:34,205 --> 00:48:36,786 sit with us and explain a little bit about the BBC. 1054 00:48:34,743 --> 00:48:35,743 It's my pleasure. 1055 00:48:36,786 --> 00:48:40,738 Thank you ever so much. We'll be popping this out end of this week. 1056 00:48:40,738 --> 00:48:41,738 So we'll turn it around quick. 1057 00:48:41,649 --> 00:48:43,320 We'll get you posted. But once again, 1058 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,661 Dominic Walker, thanks very much for joining the Archive Room. 1059 00:48:43,393 --> 00:48:45,822 Thank you. 1060 00:48:45,883 --> 00:48:47,207 My pleasure. Thank you both.