บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ The Forensic Interviewer: What Interviewing 1,000 Kids Taught Her

between the two of them. 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:00.719 So two parent households? 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:00.959 Yes. 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:02.239 Are your parents still together now? 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:04.560 So my dad actually passed away when I was 15. 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:07.760 And so that's kind of what led me into what I do now. 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:09.759 So, but he passed away suddenly when I was 15. 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:11.919 So my parents were together up until that time. 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:14.639 So now it's been 16 and a half years. 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:16.400 But my mom and I are still very close. 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:20.560 I've got a younger brother, older sister, very close with both of them in our own ways. 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:22.639 We still know each other like siblings. 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:27.759 But I'll I'll hide some stuff for them if I need to. 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:44.560 If you were close with both parents and you kind of went to each one for different things, was there ever a time that you felt like some of your, you know, personality traits or the fact that you like to talk too much, was that always just like cultivated and encouraged? 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:46.159 Were you always allowed to ask questions? 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:48.960 Or sometimes was that not a thing for you? 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:50.960 So it really depended on the situation. 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:52.159 My dad went through a lot. 00:02:52.240 --> 00:03:00.960 And so if he was having like an off day, it's one of those like, let's not talk, let's just not hang out with my siblings and let's not engage in certain conversations. 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:04.719 But otherwise, like if I had a question, my mom and my dad would explain it. 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:15.759 And so my mom's also very thorough in the sense of if there's like an issue or a conversation we're discussing, we don't want to stop until there's some kind of resolution to that discussion. 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:16.960 Wow, that's awesome. 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:17.280 Okay. 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:19.840 I had a dad that always encouraged me to ask questions. 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:24.879 And so I'm never scared to ask anybody questions, which is probably why we're sitting here right now, honestly. 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:28.800 Because I I've just, my dad always told me that asking questions is how you learn. 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:29.039 Yeah. 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:29.360 Right. 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:31.439 And I was a very talkative kid too, go figure. 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:31.759 Yeah. 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:34.400 I was always, always talking. 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:37.199 Just out of curiosity with that. 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:44.719 Was there ever an environment where you were scrutinized for asking too many questions or talking too much? 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:45.520 School. 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:46.000 Really? 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:46.639 What happened? 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.039 So I would talk a lot during class because I got bored very, very easily. 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:55.759 So like I would do my homework and then I would start asking questions to the teacher, and then I'd be like, I don't feel good. 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:57.360 So I'd go to the nurse's office to take a nap. 00:03:57.599 --> 00:03:57.919 Oh wow. 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:04.960 So I got, they had to move different classrooms, like me around in the classroom with I couldn't sit next to certain friends, but also like I'm friends with everybody. 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:06.400 So like I'll talk to anybody. 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:08.159 So I did have that issue. 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:09.680 I wouldn't say necessarily an issue. 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:10.719 That was a challenge. 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:11.199 Mm-hmm. 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:12.800 The first few years of elementary school. 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:17.120 And then by middle school, like the teachers kind of knew like that's just who you are. 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:18.319 Like you're gonna be a talker. 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:21.920 But if you give me a task, like that'll stop me from talking to move into it. 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:28.000 Um yeah, school is probably the place I would be scrutinized the most about over talking. 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.879 Now, was it mainly teachers or was it students too? 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:35.360 Um, mainly teachers because the students, like, I would be done with my work. 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:37.279 So like I just want to know what are you doing on the weekends? 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:38.480 What are you, where'd you get your shoes? 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:38.959 What about this? 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:40.800 What are we doing for the basketball game later? 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:46.160 And the teachers would get onto me because other people weren't done with their work, but they wanted to engage in conversation. 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:51.360 Like sometimes my friends now just kind of look at me like, shh, just stop. 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:55.759 My husband has a rule with me that I'm not allowed to talk to him for the first like hour after he wakes up. 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:56.800 Oh, that's my husband too. 00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:57.519 I'm not allowed to. 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:01.439 And I'm like, So thankfully, my little daughter, she's just like me. 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:04.319 We're two peas in a pod on we don't stop talking. 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:06.480 Yeah, I have some of those too. 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:07.439 That's amazing. 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:10.000 My husband's like 20 minutes, but after he wakes up, you don't talk. 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.360 Yeah, no, with him, my husband with law enforcement, he switches nights and days. 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:15.680 So his schedule is so messed up sometimes. 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:17.759 He's like, uh, you're too chipper in the morning. 00:05:17.920 -->

00:05:19.120 Like, yeah, because it's 7 a.m. 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:20.079 I've been up since five. 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:21.360 Yeah, I've had two hours to wake up. 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:22.720 I've had a cup of coffee if I need to. 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.120 If the kids didn't sleep, like, come on, buckaroo, let's go. 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:26.240 Yeah, that's amazing. 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:27.920 Now, what did your parents do for a living? 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:30.319 They worked in like healthcare with the billing department. 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:32.560 Okay, couldn't tell you much more than that. 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:35.600 It was a lot of numbers, and I would hear a lot of different conversations. 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:37.519 I'm like, that sounds horrible. 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:38.480 Sounds really boring. 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:39.360 It sounds terrible. 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:40.560 Like it's a lot of math. 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:41.519 I love math. 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:45.120 I don't want to sit behind a desk like that and do the same thing over and over. 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:48.319 And my mom still talks about reconciliations and this and that. 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:52.480 I'm like, You're like, I like the human reconciliations, not like numbers. 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.519 Yeah, like do you need me to let you go so you can finish that? 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:58.000 Because you are way too in the weeds with this conversation right now. 00:05:58.160 --> 00:05:58.480 Yeah. 00:05:58.720 --> 00:05:59.360 Oh my gosh. 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:05.519 Now, did you and either one of your parents have like similarities and things that you were interested in outside of what they were doing before? 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:06.319 Oh, yeah. 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:06.639 Yeah. 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:08.800 Like why, like what was very common in your family? 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:10.560 So sports was a big common thing. 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:10.800 Okay. 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.199 So my mom, um, growing up, she played softball. 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:15.839 My dad did gymnastics, which is different. 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:18.560 Um, so he encouraged us to do gymnastics. 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:19.519 We did that as a kid. 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:20.399 Did you like it? 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:21.199 Loved it. 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:21.680 Yeah. 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:25.199 But he was always very cautious because he broke his neck doing gymnastics. 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:26.079 Oh my God. 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:27.279 Yes, when he was in high school. 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:32.959 So he was always um, he would go to all of our practices to help make sure, like, are you doing your forms correctly? 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:34.399 So we're not getting hurt. 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:39.519 Um, but then they were at every single basketball game, volleyball game, football game for my brother. 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:43.199 My sister did golf for a short stint, like that didn't last long. 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:51.519 But when we did play softball, soccer, every single event, my dad was a coach um for years in elementary school. 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:57.920 So a lot of similarities with the sports, um, and then like holiday style stuff with my mom. 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:01.759 So, like, we're really big into fall decorations and Christmas decorations. 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:11.120 So, like, that would be our time to like just kind of like you don't have to talk, but like you're just together and you're in the environment, you're in like making the memories together. 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:11.759 Sure. 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.240 So now, how about your dad? 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:16.800 Was he equally as into like tradition and holiday nostalgia? 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:17.199 No. 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:17.519 No. 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:23.120 No, it was all he was into it because my mom was into it, but my mom was the one that decorated everything that put it up, took it down. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:25.680 Um, the only thing he was really into is like Christmas. 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:28.399 He has a tree that was uh, she loved Star Trek. 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:28.800 Interesting. 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:31.680 I could never get into it, the point it ears weirds me out. 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:33.120 But he loved it. 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:34.720 So, like, still has a Star Trek tree. 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:38.000 So my mom, still to this day, every year she puts up a Star Trek tree for him. 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:46.000 Oh, and with all the different ornaments and he would get like that was his one of his gifts from us every year was a new ornament to go on the tree when Hallmark continued to make them. 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:51.680 Sometimes they didn't, you had to adjust, but he was doing it just because like we enjoyed it. 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:53.759 And so you were 15 when he passed away. 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:54.160 Yes. 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:55.439 Was it a sickness? 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:56.879 No, it was a car accident. 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:01.120 Oh my gosh, where were you when this happened? 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:02.160 I was there. 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:07.040 You weren't so it's kind of a different, like a different situation to explain. 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:10.000 I was not in the car, but I witnessed everything that occurred. 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:10.800 Yeah. 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:12.079 Can we go into that? 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:20.879 Yeah, so he had a lot of issues and like he struggled a lot as a kid, and that's why I was saying some of his bad days, like he would get angry very easily. 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:21.199 Okay. 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.839 And like there was a lot of yelling and things like that. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.160 So it's kind of like, yeah, we're just gonna let it happen today. 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:36.720 So it was uh a

yelling conversation, and it was just a freak accident that happened on a street, and I was actually outside the car that saw it, and so I was the first one to him when all that happened. 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:38.879 So it was just one of those things. 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:44.320 Like, I was really glad my brother and my sister weren't they my brother was not there. 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:47.200 I think my sister showed up, but I was the one that like saw it. 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:49.759 So I'm really glad for their sake they didn't see all that. 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:51.279 My mom was there also. 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:57.919 Um, which obviously you know how that is with your spouse, but just very sudden. 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.120 Um, did not just single a single vehicle accident? 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:01.919 Yeah. 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:02.399 Yeah. 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:05.360 So a single vehicle with him not in a vehicle. 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:07.360 And so as a kid, I was 15. 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:13.200 It's like I like thinking about it, you don't think the harsh reality of like, oh my gosh, this is something that could end somebody's life. 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:14.639 You're like, oh, they're they're okay. 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:18.799 Like he was like he was kind of not talking, but like making noises. 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:20.000 He was alert, he was there. 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.200 Like when I was standing there with him, I was talking to him, things like that. 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:28.720 So I remember going to the hospital with my mom, and my sister ended up leaving, my brother ended up leaving. 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:30.960 And so I went to the hospital with my mom and my uncle. 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.440 And I'm like the one of I'm just gonna keep talking, just like, hey, everything's gonna be okay. 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:38.399 We're gonna plan this, we're gonna do this, like, this is what we're gonna do. 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:39.840 Like, if I need to stay with him, I can't. 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:40.960 If you need to stay with him, you can. 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.200 Like, my uncle can take me home, not a big deal. 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:47.360 And then, like, not thinking they took us into like this family room right up front. 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:50.480 I'm just like, okay, cool, the doctor's bots can talk to us. 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.559 And like, I kind of saw my mom like start to adjust. 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:58.320 I'm like, maybe this isn't the best thing that's happening. 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:04.080 So when the doctor comes in, I remember her starting to explain the injuries to my mom, like what he went through, da da da. 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:08.080 And I just remember my mom stopping, she's like, Is my husband alive? 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:12.080 And the doctor told her, and I was like, Wait, what? 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:18.799 So that was a hard thing, but it was then being there

when the doctor told my sister, my brother. 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:19.360 Oh man. 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:24.159 Um, this is one of the few things I will ever get choked up about. 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:31.039 But it's a silver lining in my life, as horrible as I was to witness and go through. 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:34.480 I'm very big on, I'm not gonna let it define anything. 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:35.919 And so I I've never told anybody this. 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:38.879 So whenever I went back to go see him, my mom asked, like, hey, do you want me to go with you? 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:39.919 I was like, nope, not at all. 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:41.840 Like, I'm gonna go by myself. 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:48.879 So I go back there, and so like just talking to him, telling him stuff, and I was like, I promise you, I will take care of everybody. 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:52.480 So and here we are, 16 years later. 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:55.039 Have you always been the one to take care of everybody? 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:55.600 Yeah. 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:57.440 When did that start? 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:07.120 Um I would say younger, but I like to take care of everybody because I like to be like involved with everybody, if that makes sense. 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:21.200 Like I'm always cautious of overstepping, but I enjoy feeling needed to be in like to help with my brother, to help with my sister, to help with my mom, my dad, friends, kids, neighbors, all that. 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:22.720 Like, if you need help, like call me. 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:25.120 I'll come over, I'll I'll do whatever you need me to do. 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:27.679 Um, so younger age definitely started. 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:28.639 Are you the oldest? 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:29.360 I'm the middle. 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:30.240 You're the middle child. 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:30.799 I'm the middle. 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.120 So I always joke that I'm the kid that gets forgotten about. 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:36.879 But my sister's four years older, and my brother's four years younger. 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:38.080 So I'm like dead middle. 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:39.279 You were dead middle. 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:40.000 Wow. 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:40.720 Yep. 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:46.320 How interesting is it that you weren't the oldest child, but you still felt like your older, is it your older sister and younger brother? 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.519 Your older sister was your responsibility in some way. 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:52.799 So my mom always jokes that she's more introverted than I am. 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.080 So anytime, like growing up, I'd be like four or five years old. 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:00.720 She would take me up to like the food counter with her because she knows I'll talk to the people for her. 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:02.879 So she would tell me what she wants and I would order for her. 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:06.159 Or she'd be like, hey, go

ask mom and dad this, and I would just go do it. 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:10.399 So my mom always jokes, like, yeah, she always sent you to do her, like her her errands. 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:12.799 I'm like, yeah, because she knew how to talk and I would do it. 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:14.159 I didn't have an issue with it. 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:16.080 What kind of student were you? 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:17.120 Good. 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:20.240 Like all the way through, even after your dad's passing? 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:21.039 Yeah. 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:27.200 I'm sitting here just like listening and thinking, my dad also went through a whole lot. 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:32.159 Um, when my dad was 15, both of his parents committed suicide two weeks from apart from each other at Christmas time. 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:33.919 My dad's the one that found both of them. 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:35.120 Oh my gosh. 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:42.000 And my dad was also moody, angry, um, like the whole time growing up. 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:44.559 And I kind of took on the same role as the lightning rod, right? 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.519 So I was the one that like knew how to like shift his mood. 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:52.799 I knew what to do or say in order to like make it better or calm him down or same thing like you're saying, like just ignore him. 00:12:53.039 --> 00:13:02.879 I think it's one of those things where you're like, you know the difference between the sound of angry footsteps going down the hallway versus in a good mood footsteps going down the hallway. 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:14.960 And it kind of creates that hypervigilance, you know, to where I don't know about you, but like for me, I can walk into any room and I can scan immediately and I know who's in a good mood, who's in a bad mood, who's safe, who's not. 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.879 Well, and I like also paying attention to who's being sincere, who's being fake. 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:20.080 What are you hiding? 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.639 Like there's something going, like, don't lie to me, what's going on? 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:24.399 Yeah, authenticity is so important to me. 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.000 Like the yes, like 100% ever since that, it's like, hey, what's wrong? 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:28.960 You're having an off day. 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:30.320 People like, no, no, I'm good. 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:31.759 I'm like, okay, come on now. 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:32.399 Don't lie to me. 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:33.120 Right, right, right. 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:33.759 Talk to me. 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:36.480 I can see something physically changing about your appearance. 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:37.440 What is going on? 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:42.639 Whether it's your like your shoulders stinking forward or your just your face is not as lit up as it normally is. 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:45.039 Like sometimes it's just like, I'm just tired. 00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:47.279 Other times it's like, it's just been a hard time. 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:47.759 Cool. 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:49.360 Then talk to me when you feel up to it. 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:50.720 Don't feel like you have to. 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:52.559 And where do you think that that started? 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:56.240 Do you think that that has something to do with how your dad was? 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.879 So as I mentioned earlier, my dad's the reason I got into this field. 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:04.720 Um, like I said, growing up, like you can always kind of be like, That's just dad. 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:16.720 Like, he's in a mood, he's in a bad mood, my mom will handle it, and then like they'll argue, they won't talk, and then like I'm the one to break the ice because I'm a lot like my dad in that sense of like, hey, like just random talking. 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.879 Like, let's just go for a drive, let's go do things and like just spend time together. 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:25.519 Um, so after he passed, like I said, very sudden, was not expecting at all. 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:27.919 Um, so I spoke at his funeral. 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:29.279 That was like a lot of closure. 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:35.600 And then as time went on, like my sister was in college at this point. 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:36.960 My brother was 11. 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:40.960 And so my mom didn't really have too many people to turn to to talk about certain things. 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:46.240 And I always I'm under the belief when people pass, like, don't pretend like they didn't exist. 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:48.960 Yeah, talk about them, keep their memory alive, keep their spirit alive. 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:50.399 Like, that's what they would want you to do. 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:52.879 And so, like, I would talk to her about my dad, things like that. 00:14:53.039 --> 00:15:01.279 And she would make little comments here and there about like, well, your dad was acting this way, different medications, or your dad was acting this way because he was dealing with a lot of stuff. 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:03.360 And finally, one day I was like, what are you talking about? 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:04.639 Like what he was dealing with. 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:16.159 So I didn't know he was in therapy, and so I didn't know he was seeing doctors for different thoughts that he was having of like just not feeling good enough, like like just the defeat. 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.679 Um, found out that he had been a victim of sexual abuse as a kid. 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:27.679 And he never was believed, he never got the help, which turned into everything that he was experiencing. 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:33.679 So if he got a poor report at work, it was I'm the worst person ever, I can't do anything better. 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.399 And my mom's there like trying to support him. 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:37.519 No, you are. 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:38.799 You're really

good at what this is. 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.799 You're a great father, you're a great husband. 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:43.279 And it just he couldn't ever get over that. 00:15:43.679 --> 00:16:00.000 Um, and so when she told me that, that's what kind of made my decision of, well, when I go into college, I'm gonna go into psychology because I want to understand his brain, why his brain was telling him these things because he was taking medication for depression and anxiety, and it it just like it wasn't helping. 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:10.559 So ended up going into the psychology field behind it, and then realizing like he deserved more, he deserves the help. 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:12.559 Little Tori deserved that. 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:14.399 Yeah, my sister deserves deserved that. 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.759 My brother, my mom, our friends, our family, like they deserved it. 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:18.960 Like at the ripple effect. 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:19.600 Yes. 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:20.480 Yeah. 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:23.679 But look what you do with that. 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:29.279 Yeah, turn it around to the silver lining of I don't want anybody else to feel like they don't have anybody to turn to. 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:32.320 Even with my job, I'm not able to say I believe them or I don't believe them. 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:36.639 But it's just being that safe space to know like you could talk about whatever you want. 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:38.320 Um, my dad never had that. 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:52.159 It it was embarrassment, it was shame, it was guilt, it was so many different barriers that he was facing that he never felt like he could share his story and that it's okay that other people are going through this, also. 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:54.879 You never experienced emotional safety. 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:55.440 No. 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:58.480 And then you became the adult your dad needed. 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:00.320 Sometimes, yeah. 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.559 Because him and my mom, they talked about a lot about like deep conversations. 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:07.680 They like they had a very healthy relationship when it was healthy. 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:13.519 And then when he was struggling, she was doing everything she could to fight for him to show him he was worth it. 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:14.960 But I mean professionally. 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:15.519 Oh yeah. 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.839 What you do for a living now is exactly what your dad needed. 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:23.680 You became the adult your dad needed as a kid. 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:24.160 Yep. 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:25.440 This full circle. 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:26.799 That's amazing. 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:27.200 Yeah. 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:28.559 Wow. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.559 That that is like all in the field for me because I'm gonna cry talking about this. 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:38.640 That's like such a thing for me. 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:48.720 Is like if I could have gone back to the day that my dad found his parents, he didn't have that, you know. 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:59.759 And that breaks my heart so much because I'm like, he just needed somebody, he needed somebody to listen, not to like make any kind of a determined determination for him on how he should handle it. 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:01.920 He just needed that emotional safety. 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:06.400 And luckily, he had his grandmother who he eventually moved in with. 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.880 Um, like a year and a half-ish later, he moved in with his grandma Julia. 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:16.000 And she was the very first person who ever could demonstrate emotional safety for my dad. 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:21.839 One day my dad came home and he was so drunk I couldn't make it up the stairs because he was out doing all the behaviors, right? 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:25.279 After finding your parents both deceased, self-inflicted. 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:26.720 You're going to have those behaviors. 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.440 Nobody to talk to, nobody to counsel him through it. 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:30.480 Great family, though. 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:32.240 Like my dad really does come from a great family. 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:35.440 I was just there like two weekends ago about to see that whole side of the family. 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:37.599 They're just the most precious humans ever. 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.519 But he still didn't have any like professional help, and he was a boy. 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:42.880 And he's a 15-year-old boy. 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:44.960 His brother's off in the Navy, he's by himself. 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:48.160 And both parents are now gone, literally 12 days apart from each other. 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.039 His mom was December 15th, dad was December 27th. 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:53.440 Very close, right around Christmas. 00:18:53.680 --> 00:19:03.039 So then he ends up moving in with his grandma Julia, comes home that night so drunk he can't make up his stairs, wakes up the next morning, he's got a pillow underneath his head, a blanket on top of him, and his grandma's asleep with him on those stairs. 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:09.599 Two weekends ago, I got to go to that house and see that staircase in person. 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:16.799 And that was amazing because that staircase, that moment of emotional safety, changed my dad's entire life. 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:26.000 I'm fully confident, like my dad would not have become the man who was successful enough to adopt a child, which is me, had he not had that experience. 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:32.160 And yeah, a lot of those other behaviors and things, all of the trauma that he like my dad's still till this day, my dad will be 80 next month. 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:34.880 My dad's never been to therapy ever in his life. 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:46.000 But, you know, that experience, that one

experience, and experiencing somebody who is safe for him, you know, when he opened his eyes that morning, he was just like, I can't hurt her anymore. 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:47.839 I have to change my behavior. 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:55.920 I'm confident that that's what made him become a successful human being because he wanted to make Grandma Julia proud and he wanted to do right by her and he couldn't hurt her anymore. 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:56.559 Yep. 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:02.640 But when he was 19, so just like a year and a half later, he came in and found her deceased in the kitchen. 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:03.200 Oh my god. 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:04.640 So he lost his safety. 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:06.000 It was gone, you know. 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.079 But like I said, he did have good family. 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.400 He had a friend who was amazing. 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:15.759 And when my dad got a really good job opportunity all the way in California, he's from Minnesota. 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.960 And his friend was like, I know he's not gonna go by himself. 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:20.079 I'm going with him. 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:23.200 And his friend packed up his life and moved with my dad to California. 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:23.680 Wow. 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:24.640 Isn't that crazy? 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:26.559 So he was really lucky in that aspect. 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:33.839 And then what breaks my heart is to think of people who don't have that, who don't have a good family support system or any friends or any of that. 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:35.200 My dad had some amazing friends. 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:36.160 They're still amazing friends. 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:36.400 Yeah. 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:44.559 I got to go out to to breakfast with two friends that have been my dad's friends since they were they were 15 years old, right around the time my dad's parents passed away. 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:56.000 And like have breakfast with those men and like talk to them about my dad as a kid, and you know, like says a lot too about like what kind of people they are and what kind of person my dad is, because my dad's kept friends for 65 years. 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.759 That's a long time for friendship, you know, but they're more like family. 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:05.759 So like you're like my uncle, uncles, maybe this was an amazing experience. 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:13.359 So, how is it that you became so good at creating emotional safety? 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:20.079 Was this education or was this from your own personal experiences, combination of both? 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.119 So, are you talking about like professionally like now? 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:24.400 Yeah, because you do that. 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:28.640 That's like that's your job is to create that emotional safety, right? 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:33.440 Like to make it to where kids feel comfortable enough where they can tell you what happened. 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.160 Yeah, so I think it goes to personal experience of like not forcing. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.759 I didn't know anything about that growing up with my dad until after he was gone. 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:44.400 And so then it's like, oh, that stuff makes sense now. 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:49.200 Like, no wonder you were so protective about us going to friends' houses or things about it. 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:51.680 Yeah, exactly. 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:52.160 Yeah. 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:59.759 And so then just through all my degrees, and then I worked at MHGD for a while, and so you're hearing people. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.440 People's story and similar things of they were not nobody met them where they were at. 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:07.920 It was always forcing them, and this is where you should be. 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:14.160 And so understanding, like for me, whatever he passed, nobody forced me and told me this is how you should act. 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.279 This is what you should be doing. 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:16.799 This is how you should be grieving. 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:22.160 Because I'm very different of like compartmentalized, move on. 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.799 I can't do anything to bring somebody back. 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.039 I can grieve, I can cry certain things, but you gotta move on from it. 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:30.079 Where do you think that came from? 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:31.279 Where'd you learn that? 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:33.119 Uh generally, I don't know. 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.200 Because my mom is like, I always joke with her, and when she watches this, hi mom, sorry. 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:40.319 Anytime she starts crying, she goes, I know the water works. 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:41.680 I'm like, it's okay. 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:42.799 She's very emotional. 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.519 I am not emotional, like at all. 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:51.839 And my dad was not very emotional in that sense either, of like it was just kind of like ignore things. 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:54.000 So I'm not sure where I got that from. 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.480 Ignore things, compartmentalize. 00:22:58.559 --> 00:22:59.359 Yeah, yeah. 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.039 Maybe a little bit. 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:01.839 Yeah. 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:03.839 Same, you know, same thing. 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:05.359 Kind of come see, come talk. 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:06.160 Makes sense. 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:06.480 Yeah. 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:12.079 Did dad like dismiss it or just like minimize usually or just minimization? 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:16.160 It's a lot of minimization of just like, okay, we're not gonna talk about that right now. 00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:17.200 We'll talk about that later. 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:21.359 Yeah, it sounds like that might be and my mom's like the opposite of like, no, we're like I talked about the resolution. 00:23:21.519 -->

00:23:22.559 No, we're gonna talk about this. 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:27.359 I need like right here, right now, I need to know how things end, like with this situation. 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:28.319 Where do we stand? 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:29.599 I need to know where we stand. 00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.880 I need to know what they're at the conclusion of like, hey, I'm going out with my friends. 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:33.759 She goes, Okay, where are you going? 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:34.559 What time are you gonna be back? 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:35.279 Who are you with? 00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:36.960 And I'm like, this, this, this, this, and this. 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:37.759 She's like, okay. 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:40.240 Otherwise, I told my dad, it's like, hey, can I go to a friend's house? 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:41.440 What'd your mom say? 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:42.559 She said yes. 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:43.440 All right. 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:49.759 It's interesting that you brought up the thing about like going to friends' houses because that was actually a question that I've been wanting to ask you. 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:58.240 As somebody who has interviewed over a thousand children, what are your particular thoughts on sleepovers and things like that? 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:01.680 So I've heard a lot of stuff in talking to kids. 00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:04.240 And not to say that every situation it's gonna happen. 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:09.599 I can't control everything that my kids do, but I'm gonna do what I can as a parent to protect them. 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:13.920 Most of the time when children are sexually abused in particular, it's by somebody you know. 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:15.599 Rarely is it by somebody you don't know. 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:32.079 And so I think of situations of I don't want my kid to be put in a situation that there's pe that they feel peer pressured or that something happens, not to say it's by another family member or it's a friend's caregivers or a friend's sibling or a friend. 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:37.759 So sleepover-wise, my husband and I've decided, like, yeah, our kids aren't gonna go over for sleepovers. 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:39.279 You stay there till midnight, that's fine. 00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:40.319 Call me, I'll come pick you up. 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.000 And then I'll drop you back off in the morning. 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:42.799 That's okay. 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:52.000 But that's just my comfortability as a parent of I want to help as much as I can in situations, but I know I can't control all of them. 00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:56.240 Because stuff doesn't just happen at sleepovers, it happens everywhere. 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:00.480 What's the most common scenario that you hear in these interviews? 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:03.200 As far as like, is there is there a lot of commonality? 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.039 Is there a lot of things where you're like, yep, hear this one all the time? 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:09.920 I wouldn't say that because every situation is different. 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:12.640 Every kid I talked to is very different. 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:22.559 Some of the situations might be similar in the sense of like, oh, they were at their house or they were on a vacation or they were on a camping trip or something like that. 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:41.119 But it's different reasons that somehow they ended up being alone with somebody else, or that they had no idea and the trust and the so the commonality between all of it is that I hear from people is children are more likely to be sexually abused by somebody they know and somebody they trust. 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:58.880 So that's where you get a lot of red flags put up because as a kid, you're taught stranger danger, like, oh, don't like, don't go talk to that person, which still like don't go up to random people all the time, but it's people that groom children and people that groom adults to be able to have access to those kids. 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:01.599 Can you define grooming for those that are watching that don't know? 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:26.160 Yeah, so grooming is basically like you are identifying a potential victim, not saying it's going to be a victim, um, but it could be a child that has some adverse things going on in their life, whether it's a single parent or parent, both parents at work and they're very busy, or it could be financial, it could be just access to a kid with coach, pastor, step parent, sibling, whatever the relationship might be, when you're identifying a child. 00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:32.799 So then it's you kind of start forming a relationship with a kid, whether it's uh just a friendly relationship of, hey, how's your day going? 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:33.359 How are things? 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:34.319 How is this? 00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.599 Uh yeah, I'll take you to soccer practice, I'll pick you up from that. 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.279 Let's go some ice cream after soccer practice, after baseball, whatever it might be. 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.720 And so they're getting that kiddo kind of just used to being around them. 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:46.319 Um like desensitizing them. 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:56.720 Yeah, desensitizing them to this person, but also you're learning to trust them because it's like, hey, some secrecy can come in of like, don't tell your mom I took you for ice cream afterwards because she's not gonna let me pick you up anymore from school. 00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:02.799 Or don't tell your grandma that I let you have a gumball after dinner. 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:03.680 Things like that. 00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:06.960 So it creates some kind of secrecy within the relationship. 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:15.519 But also while this person is doing these things with these kids, they're doing it with the adults because they're having to like desensitize you to them having access to their kid.

00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.640 Like, no, you're so busy, you've got five other kids at home. 00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:23.440 Like, let me, you're a single dad, let me go pick up your kid for you, let me bring him home on my way home. 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:31.359 So it's getting you used to this is a trusted person in your household or in your family or in your inner circle that these kids can be around. 00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:45.279 And then it's they start doing the simple physical touches of the hugs and the high fives, things that just get you used to their actual touch, and then the secrecy continues, and then potentially it could lead to sexual things that happen. 00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:51.039 And then it goes back to, well, you might have enjoyed it, or this is gonna be your fault as much as my fault. 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.480 This is gonna be who's gonna believe you versus me. 00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:58.319 Is anybody gonna believe that I did this because of where I stand in the community? 00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:03.519 Or are you having behavioral issues and I'm the one that's trying to get you out of these behavioral issues? 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:11.920 So there's a lot that happens with grooming, but the biggest shock that kind of like your face showed is a lot of people don't think that perpetrators groom adults. 00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:13.119 No, that shocked me. 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.519 I'm sitting here going, that makes so much sense. 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:23.200 And the other thing that kind of hit me too was like they're like baiting the adults with relief. 00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:23.839 Yeah. 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.319 Like, here, let me take something off your plate. 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.400 Here, this kid, you know, you're so busy, they need some individual attention. 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:31.119 I got you. 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:32.640 Let me pick them up from school for you. 00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:35.920 And it could be like there's some cases I've worked where there was zero grooming at all. 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:36.799 Like it just happened. 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.519 There's cases I've worked where grooming's been over years before anything sexual ever happened. 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.680 Years before something happened. 00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:45.039 Wow. 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:52.640 That's so much like calculated, pre, you know, oh my gosh, premeditated. 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.400 And so with that, like my red flags go off so often with certain things. 00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.279 Like my daughter comes home from school and she goes, Mama, I got this from school. 00:28:59.359 --> 00:28:59.920 I'm like, how come? 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:00.720 Who gave you got that? 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:01.359 Who gave you that? 00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:02.880 Did everybody get that or did just you get that? 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:04.480 How come you got this gift? 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.279 So I'm like questioning my kids on a lot of stuff. 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:13.519 And my husband, God bless in all the time, he looks at me, he's like, simmer down there, like it's it's innocent. 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:14.640 Like, let it be innocent. 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:15.440 Like, you're right. 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:16.640 I need to let it be innocent. 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:18.640 Well, that's a good question for you, too. 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.640 Is like, how often do you see your job following you home with your own children? 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:28.319 So I am very good about compartmentalizing what I heard at work and not taking home from work. 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:35.200 So I've got a five-year-old or almost five-year-old in a few weeks, and then a three and a half-year-old and a almost a one-year-old. 00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:38.720 So a five-year-old, she is my mini interviewer. 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:40.720 Like, she will be like, Thanks for correcting me, mama. 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.160 Like, she'll ask me a question, you know, this, this, or something different. 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:46.400 I'm like, my girl, she's learning. 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:50.559 Um, so she has gotten really big about like, Mama, tell me about your day. 00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:51.680 Tell me everything you did. 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:53.119 Tell me about talking to kids today. 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.400 And I just have to tell her, like, hey, nope, I can't tell you about the kids I talked to. 00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:57.359 I just talked to kids. 00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:59.440 And then she like, did you help them? 00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:02.079 I'm not sure if I helped them or not, but I talked to them a lot. 00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:07.359 And so it's then tried to tell a five-year-old about my job without telling it too much. 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:19.920 But like just the mentality of it of you, I don't think you can get away from everything that you hear because it does impact you of certain things of if my kid doesn't want to go sit on Santa's lap, I'm not gonna go make them sit on Santa's lap. 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:20.480 That's okay. 00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:24.720 Because if you they're uncomfortable with something or they don't want to, I'm not gonna force anything with you. 00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:28.400 But also, I'm very big on the communication with them of talk to me. 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:31.920 Like, we're going through the big feelings and big emotions stage right now. 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:33.759 Talk to me about what's going on. 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:39.359 Let's not freak out, let's not scream, yell, like use your words to articulate things with me. 00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:45.440 So, like body parts, both my kids that can talk, they know their anatomical parts, that's what they call them. 00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.759 Yeah, they don't have like funky names for them. 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:52.400 No, how do you feel about that when a parent

will use a different word? 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:53.759 To each his own. 00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:58.880 There's teenagers I talk to that refuse to say like penis and vagina because they think like that's super disturbing. 00:30:58.960 --> 00:30:59.680 And that's okay. 00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:05.279 Like, you use whatever you can use as long as that like a caregiver and a kid, you understand what they're talking about. 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:05.680 Sure. 00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:10.240 So, like if you call it their cookie, know what they mean by if they're saying they're cookie. 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:13.200 So if you're like, I have no idea what that is, ask them. 00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:20.319 So if they don't want to call it penis and vagina, to each his own, that's okay as long as you know what they're talking about. 00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:32.640 At what age are is appropriate for you to start having that kind of a conversation where you're telling them, you know, this is, you know, nobody should touch you here, nobody should see you that and how should you have that conversation? 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:38.079 So, me personally, I've had that conversation with my kids since they've started to verbalize things. 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:50.160 So, like if they take baths together, it's like, nope, you wash your body, you wash your body, you don't wash each other's body, or like potty training was a big one with like, hey, if you need help wiping at school, the teachers are the one to wipe you. 00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:51.279 This is how they should wipe you. 00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:53.839 Nobody's supposed to take pictures or videos of you. 00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:56.000 And like, right now, it's very common. 00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:57.920 Someone be like, hey, I need to tell you a secret. 00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:03.519 If you tell it to my five-year-old, she'll stop and look at you and say, We don't keep secrets, we have fun surprises. 00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:06.240 So it's already instilling in them different verbiage. 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:11.119 And to know that, like, talking about your penis and your vagina or your butt are not, it's not inappropriate. 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:13.200 There's just a time and a place to do it. 00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:19.759 Because granted, we had the issue still whenever we taught my five-year-old, it's a cute funny story. 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:37.200 So I ended up going to dinner with my CEO and then like some of my other admin and then some other coworkers and my two kids at Mama Cita's, and we're sitting there and Charlotte, my five-year-old, is like, you have vagina, you have vagina, you have a vagina, going walking around the table, tell everybody what they have. 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.880 Gets to my CEO and goes, You have a penis, you have vagina. 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.279 I kept walking around, I'm like mortified. 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:53.599 Just like, any anybody walking, like, people are laughing around

us because then my son also screamed at like a table of firefighters, was like, Daddy, I'm like, Y'all are not his father, I promise. 00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.720 Like, so it was an event with both kids. 00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:03.920 But it was kind of funny because then like my CEO made a comment and was like, Well, at least you know they're your kids, like they know their body parts. 00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:05.359 Well, it's Tori's kids. 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:11.039 I'm like, Yep, they know their body parts, but like then it's teaching them like you don't need to tell everybody else what they have their body parts as. 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:11.839 Right. 00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:13.200 Oh my gosh. 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.000 I would have laughed my butt off for that, though. 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:16.960 That would have been so funny. 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:18.000 And it would have been your kids. 00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:19.519 If anybody's kids, 100%. 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.079 So I tell them, like, hey, at school, you don't need to talk about it. 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:23.279 You don't need to tell people about it. 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:24.880 We don't show anybody about it. 00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:30.559 But if something's wrong with it, you tell a grown-up, you tell your teacher, or you tell one of like the directors. 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:33.759 Those are who you talk to about it, you don't need to tell your friends about it. 00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:34.079 Yeah. 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.680 Like otherwise, it's you don't need to go teach them what they have on their body. 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:42.160 Let that be their caregivers' role to teach them and like how they want to teach them. 00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:42.640 Yeah. 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:43.839 Not how I teach you. 00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:51.440 What do you think your job has changed about the way that you choose to parent your children? 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:56.880 The awareness, because with, like I mentioned, my husband's law enforcement. 00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.839 So both of us see and hear kind of the worst of the worst stuff. 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.720 So, like, we just kind of like side-eye each other. 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:04.799 Like, is should we let this happen right now? 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:05.759 Should we not let this happen? 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:24.239 Like, so just being very hyper-vigilant with them, with other kids, with other adults around the kids to help alleviate any concerns of like, oh well, hey, like, for instance, my daughter the other day, she fell, she like hit her head, and we got to school, and they're like, hey, what happened? 00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:25.920 I'm like, kiddo, you tell them what happened. 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:27.199 And so she told them everything that happened. 00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:30.960 I'm like, I don't want it to be my words, I want it to be your words of what happened. 00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:37.039 So it's just just being very aware of situations and different marks and bruises and changes on their body. 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:38.400 I don't know. 00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:45.119 It's just very different being aware of, and probably too aware to where like you get too stressed out about it, like going to a park. 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:47.760 You think worst case, like, okay, where are both my kids at? 00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:50.000 Could somebody somebody could walk up from over here and do something? 00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:52.719 Something had happened in this tunnel that I can't see you in. 00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:58.320 So don't go play in this tunnel, go play over here, but be careful with the bigger kids because they might run you over, you might get hurt. 00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:00.639 Too much overthinking as a parent now. 00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:02.559 You've been doing this since before you had kids, right? 00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:02.960 Yes. 00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:05.360 Yeah, almost not uh eight and a half years now. 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:08.559 Did that have any impact on whether or not you wanted to have children? 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:09.199 Not at all. 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:09.679 Really? 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:10.960 No. 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:12.639 I've always wanted kids. 00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:21.360 We love like having our kids, our big family, and like seeing them interact with each other now because it's also the thought of like, I can't live life in fear. 00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:21.760 Right. 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:28.480 Um, I can't control everything as much as I want to, as much as I want to keep my babies in a bubble and safe and protected. 00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:29.519 I can't. 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:37.440 But I can only do as much as I can and instill and teach them as much as I can to be aware of their surroundings, but not detrimental to them. 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:43.199 Now, what is something that you think a lot of parents should know that they commonly miss? 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:45.119 That's a hard question because it can be anything. 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:49.679 It can be behavioral changes, it can be just nothing changes. 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:51.760 It's just a norm for people. 00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:58.800 The biggest thing that we see is that parents are uncomfortable having certain conversations with their kid. 00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:03.599 Like we're talking about body parts, body safety, telling people nobody's supposed to look at or take pictures. 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:05.760 Don't take pictures and send them online. 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:18.480 Because if you're not teaching your kid how you want to about their body or their body safety, somebody else is going to teach them, and it's not gonna be the right information for them to help keep them safe. 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:29.360 What is something that your experience has taught you that most parents worry about, but it has like caused you to worry less

about it? 00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:30.719 Stranger danger. 00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:34.159 Yeah, that makes so much sense after what you said a minute ago. 00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:35.280 Stranger danger, 100%. 00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:37.840 Because it's not stranger, it's usually somebody close. 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:38.719 Yes, most often. 00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:46.559 If it is like stranger danger, there's a greater chance for different things to happen with kiddos, but definitely stranger danger. 00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:48.960 What is the proper thing to do? 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:57.760 Like if you feel like maybe your child says something to you, or if you maybe haven't said anything, but maybe you're noticing these things, like the hey, real changes and things like that. 00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:04.000 What's the very first thing a parent should do in that type of a situation if they think something might be going on with their kid? 00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:09.599 Look at themselves in the mirror first and see their emotions. 00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:17.039 Because children, if there is something going on and you're emotional going to them with it, they're gonna be less not, I don't say less likely. 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:22.800 There's gonna be some concerns for them to tell possibly tell you things that are happening because of they don't want to hurt your feelings. 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:25.519 They don't want to make you have to go through certain things. 00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:36.400 Um so just kind of like okay, take a deep breath, gather yourself, group, group yourself, and then ask them, like, hey, I've seen some behavior changes. 00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:37.679 Talk to me, what's going on? 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:43.679 And a kid might not want to talk about it, and you keep always asking him, like, are there things that have happened like you just don't want to talk about right now? 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.119 Because that's an open door for it's a yes, it's maybe a no. 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:54.960 Um, if it's different things that have been said to them, make a DFPS report, make a law enforcement report. 00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:08.320 Because as a parent before starting this job, as a person, if so if a kid came up and told me, if my niece had told me, or if another friend's kid had said, like, hey, so-and-so hurt me, I'd be like, What do you mean so-and-so hurt you? 00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:09.119 Like, what happened? 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:18.400 I'm gonna go handle this, I'm gonna go talk to this person, which then could put somebody on the defensive of like, no, no, no, I don't want you to get in trouble because you might go hurt somebody because of me. 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:32.000 So it's really taking that emotional step back and knowing, like, I'm gonna let somebody else ask these questions because they might not want to tell me as much because they're afraid of that emotional connection of how it might impact them, their family, their

life, moving forward. 00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.639 So make the calls. 00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:42.559 The child can be worried about putting their parent in danger if they especially something's happening to them, right? 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:46.400 Like they could think, like, oh, well, that person could hurt my mommy too, and I don't want her to go see anything. 00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:51.199 And sometimes there's the threats of like, I'm gonna hurt your sister, I'm gonna hurt your dad, I'm gonna hurt your mom, I'm gonna hurt your dogs. 00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:51.519 Wow. 00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:54.960 Or if you tell anybody, like, this is your fault because you enjoyed it. 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:57.840 You asked me to do these things, you wanted me to do these things. 00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:02.960 Or like if it's physical abuse stuff, it could be like, well, I was reacting to your bad behavior. 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:07.360 So, like, kind of the like the mind manipulation game back to the kiddos. 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:17.920 What is the ratio that you see as far as only physical abuse versus sexual abuse? 00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:20.239 Is there one you see more often than the next? 00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:23.840 So sexual abuse is what we deal with more often than physical abuse. 00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:29.920 And is that just because CPS doesn't hand you ones with the child abuse? 00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.320 There's a physical abuse part, or do they give you all of them? 00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:37.599 We have a certain physical abuse like criteria laid out in our within our memorandum of understanding. 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:38.960 So we follow that. 00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:47.199 Like we will interview for any surviving children of a child fatality, any sexual abuse, whether it's at risk or like a disclosure of abuse. 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.880 Physical abuse has to be above certain thresholds to meet Texas family code. 00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:52.159 So what are those thresholds? 00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:53.119 I would want to know. 00:39:53.440 --> 00:40:03.119 So if it's like um severe burns, marks, bruises outside of corporal punishment, um, towards like excessive punishment of like their whole butt cheeks being black, excessive. 00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:09.360 If you've got like a bruised ear and it goes up until they're like into their head, that's a difficult place to bruise on your body. 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:13.679 So also taking into consideration the child's age, their development status. 00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:19.920 Do you have a teenager that's on the spectrum and so they're not able to articulate certain things, or are they development delayed? 00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:24.800 That can all be taken into consideration for these physical abuse cases to come in. 00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:32.559 Um it could be the younger kids with their just the caregivers reacted. 00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:39.679 It might be that they something happened and they have a mark across their head, but it was they ran into a door instead. 00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:46.000 So it just is certain, is more information that needs to be gathered before bringing some of these cases in. 00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:48.480 Even with the sexual abuse ones as well. 00:40:50.159 --> 00:41:07.840 I can't imagine like if I had a case come in and I, for whatever reason, like knew, like just intuitively, that something's happening to this child, and then nothing ends up happening because I don't get that outcry or sufficient enough evidence. 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:09.599 How do you handle a situation like that? 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.480 So as an interviewer, I'm not able to have an opinion. 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:19.599 So I'm not able to say, like, I believe this kid or I don't believe this kid, or like there's more to it, um, or like, hey, this kid shut down at this point. 00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:21.039 I think there's something more. 00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:22.559 I'm not able to make that opinion. 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:23.840 But you can in your own head. 00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:33.199 In my own head, I can think those things, but I'm not gonna like say them out loud because in that place, even though I can think those things, I'm not in that role at that time. 00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:35.440 Like an interviewer Tory at this time. 00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:38.960 Right now, this kid's telling me and I'm meeting them where they're at, they're saying nothing happened. 00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:40.880 And I'm like, okay, thanks for talking to me today. 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:42.159 I appreciate you talking to me. 00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:45.519 If there's ever anything you like want to come back and talk to me about, you're welcome to. 00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:48.480 To make that kid feel comfortable of I'm not gonna force you to talk. 00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:51.039 Like if you need a break, that's fine. 00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:59.920 Like, I'm not I'm not gonna force you because it's forcing a kid to talk when they're not ready is not victim-centered and it's not trauma-informed for that kid at all. 00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:00.320 Right. 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:00.880 Totally. 00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:12.320 I'm just more curious about, I guess, when you just have that feeling and you say, say you just like for whatever reason, you're just like, I know more is going on. 00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:15.039 And now you can't say that, I can't verbalize that. 00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:24.639 But what happens inside of you when you're just like, I I couldn't get the outcry, I couldn't help them, I want to help them, but I just couldn't. 00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:26.480 Like, do you how does that affect you? 00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:45.360 So after each interview, I do feel like I help a kid because I provided you that open space to talk and you were able to talk about whatever you wanted to, whether you talked about your soccer game, you talked about the sexual

abuse, physical abuse, witnessing the murder, whatever you talked about is what you wanted to talk about. 00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:50.159 And I I provided you an open kind of arena to talk about whatever you wanted to. 00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:59.599 So I have had a lot of kids, not a lot of kids, I have had some situations where kids come back for subsequent interviews to talk to me and they're like, I didn't say X, Y, and Z previously because of this. 00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:01.519 Now I'm here to tell you all this. 00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:08.079 And so it's just having that open space for them and knowing that that's the best that I can do at that time. 00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:10.719 And that's what I have to learn to be okay with. 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.519 Otherwise, there's ones that you will lose sleep at night about. 00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:16.960 Does that come natural for you or is that something that you learned in training? 00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:17.920 It's training. 00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:18.400 Really? 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:24.719 Because the naturally as humans, we're curious, we want to know, and we want to insert our opinions and our thoughts and our feelings into certain things. 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:27.840 And as an interviewer, I'm not able to do any of that stuff. 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:37.599 Like if you're crying, we'd be like, hey, talk to me about your emotions, here's some tissues, more victim-centered than that, but not, oh my gosh, how come you're feeling this way? 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:42.000 It's I don't want you to think that I'm judging you or making you feel a type of way on anything. 00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:46.079 Well, and I think that you probably are really good at not making somebody feel shame. 00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:49.840 Like you, you're probably excellent at like taking that feeling off the table. 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:54.719 Yeah, and I'll tell kids um teenagers a lot more is like, hey, like, I don't judge kids for anything in this room. 00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:57.920 I've heard a lot of stuff, I've had a lot of stuff happen in this room. 00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:59.119 I'm not gonna judge you for it. 00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:05.440 And so, like, if the Kid cusses, I cuss intentionally to help them know like this is more of an open space. 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:09.679 And they see me still as an authority figure because I'm an adult sitting there talking to them. 00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:23.760 But I try to really tell them like we give them the rules, we give them our instructions, things like that, just to give them a little bit more control over their narrative of what they want to share, because they might not have had any control over the abuse that they may or may not have like been through. 00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:24.239 Right. 00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:29.679 Now I had the privilege of watching you testify on a case one time. 00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:35.119 And I just remember whenever you got done just being

like, I love her. 00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:37.440 I need to be friends with her. 00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:38.000 I love her. 00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:40.800 So I'm so curious because I'm sure that you have to do that a lot, right? 00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:42.639 With your job, are you going into court often? 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:44.159 I I do testify pretty often. 00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:44.559 Yes. 00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:47.280 And how many cases would you say you've testified in? 00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:48.000 A lot. 00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:49.440 Between civil and criminal. 00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:53.760 Um, because criminal, I've testified as expert outcry and like a fact witness before. 00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:57.440 Civil, I've testified in like divorce hearings or custody hearings. 00:44:57.679 --> 00:44:57.920 Really? 00:44:58.079 --> 00:44:59.119 In divorce hearings? 00:44:59.280 --> 00:44:59.599 Yep. 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:00.159 Why? 00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:14.800 Um, if there's concern of like abuse from one parent and they don't have access to our forensic interview, they want to bring in the interviewer to disclose X, Y, and Z information that was said from that child during the interview to help with their going through a divorce and custody at the same time. 00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:18.639 This is why this caregiver should not have access to this kid. 00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:19.599 Wow. 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:22.320 But I'm the weirder that loves testifying. 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.599 I can see that I saw that energy in you. 00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:29.440 I'm like, this girl, no, like she is in her element right now. 00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:29.840 I love it. 00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:37.840 And more so because I see it as like any platform I have access to that I can educate on child abuse and forensic interviewing, I love it. 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:39.920 Because before this job, I knew nothing about it. 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:45.440 Like, obviously, it's like, yeah, you're a mandated reporter, not understanding what happens after I make a report. 00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:45.920 Yeah. 00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:47.280 Like, you don't know anything about that. 00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:50.559 So any chance I can get to educate and explain, I love it. 00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:51.039 Yeah. 00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:58.000 And that's what I see as testifying because I'm a neutral party of you can try to criticize what I did in the interview, how I asked questions, things like that. 00:45:58.159 --> 00:45:58.960 Absolutely. 00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:02.559 But I'm not able to say I believe this kid or I don't believe this kid. 00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.480 I'm a neutral witness at this point. 00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:07.440 And that really takes so much of the pressure off of you right there. 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:10.639 Now, do you guys follow, is it called the peace method? 00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:13.199 So we follow this in my structure narrative process. 00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:14.880 Can you explain a little bit about what that means? 00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:17.840 Yeah, so that's our method here in Texas that we follow. 00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:23.920 So we are membership agencies with CEC Texas, and I'm on the faculty for teaching forensic interviewing. 00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:25.280 That's what I leave for this week. 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:32.960 And so that basically like it goes through rapport, event narrative practice, because how we talk in the room is very different than how you talk outside of the room. 00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:43.519 So it's event narrative practice, then it's going into our rules and our instructions in the room, obtaining truth, lie, and an oath from the kid, and then introduction topic, detail gathering. 00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:51.280 For us, we go through body safety with every single child, regardless of the situation that they came in there for, and that can look different with every kid. 00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:53.920 Sometimes it's very specific, sometimes it's more global. 00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:58.079 And then it's the closure of thanking the kid for talking to you because they don't have to talk to you. 00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:01.440 They can leave at any point they want, and I'm not gonna stop you. 00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:06.480 I have never found somebody that doesn't say you are the best at your job. 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:07.760 Never one time. 00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:13.039 Like if your name happens to get mentioned, everybody's like, oh, dude, she's the shit. 00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:13.760 Every time. 00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:14.239 Okay. 00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:18.239 So I want to know what do you think it is that makes you so good at what you do? 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:19.920 Honestly, I don't think so. 00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:21.599 I don't think I'm better than anybody else. 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:25.199 The girls I supervise, I think they're better than me because they're younger. 00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:34.159 They have different takes and lenses on different things, they can pivot just as well as I can, but they might not have to ask certain questions where I'm like, okay, kid, what does that mean? 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:35.920 Like, they might already know what that means. 00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:37.760 They're just clarifying it with the kid. 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:41.119 So I think with investigators, I've done it for so long. 00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:45.920 I've been a consistent person doing it for them to where they know my style. 00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:50.880 They know how I'm gonna ask questions, they know, like, oh great, we're getting to body safety. 00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:51.360 Here it comes. 00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:54.559 Like, Tori's gonna ask these questions, and who knows what's gonna happen. 00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:58.800 Um, it's kind of like a running joke, like maybe a can of worms, I'm not sure. 00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:02.239 But I think I'm just

a consistent person for them at this point. 00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:06.239 And I think that's it. 00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:12.159 I can tell you that one particular investigator who's been doing this a very long time. 00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:16.400 I know that he always made sure that you were the one that did his interviews. 00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:19.039 There's certain interviews I will for sure do. 00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:23.519 Um, one, because maybe my girls haven't done this type of interview before, and that's okay. 00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:29.519 Like they want to be able to see it first, or maybe CSAM needs to be presented to this kiddo, and I've done it before. 00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:33.280 So, or certain like situations like that one sounds interesting. 00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:35.519 I need to know more about this, and I want to do that one. 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:39.360 For a while, I was a singular interviewer in certain aspects. 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:46.480 With we had people transitioning roles within our agency, or that we're smaller agencies, so a lot of our roles are hybrid. 00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:52.400 So it's like, yeah, you're stuck with me as your interviewer for a while because I'm I'm really it right now, especially during COVID. 00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:57.840 That was a whole different time of doing them in masks and all across everybody. 00:48:57.920 --> 00:48:59.199 That was a whole different time. 00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:03.199 Oh, yeah, because like the kid can't really read your facial expressions in a mask. 00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:07.920 So at first we ended up doing masks and then we moved our chairs where we were six feet apart. 00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:12.800 So then we would ask the caregivers, like, are you okay if we take our mask off in the room? 00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:14.559 If we're six feet apart, like absolutely. 00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:16.239 So you I'd put it on before I leave the room. 00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:19.039 If I took a break, put it on, had it on when I walked back in. 00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:25.840 Because we did not want to necessarily do virtual forensic interviews because you can't really, you don't know what's on the other side of that. 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:27.599 Is there somebody sitting on the backside of the computer? 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:30.800 Uh are they in the room where maybe the abuse had occurred? 00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:38.960 So we were taking we were doing whatever we could to help mitigate that issue during COVID to have that kid still in person, but keep them safe as well while we're doing it. 00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:44.000 I don't think people really understand and realize how common child sexual abuse is. 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:45.599 Can you give me the statistics on that? 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:51.679 So they change as more studies come out, but an average is like one in 10 kids before they're 18 will be exposed to sexual abuse. 00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:53.599 And key defines sexual

abuse? 00:49:53.840 --> 00:50:05.519 Yeah, so that can be witnessing something happen with like something sexual happen with another person, them being sexualized with something touching or penetration of their body, or them having to do that to somebody else's body. 00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:10.320 How about like exposure to pornography at a young age? 00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:13.119 Dear Lord, social media is terrible. 00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.199 Like, terrible. 00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:20.559 More often than not, if I ask a kid about like, hey, have you ever seen pictures or videos of somebody with no clothes on? 00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:22.880 I'm waiting for the oh, Snapchat. 00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:23.760 Really? 00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:30.159 It is horrible with the amount of times I hear that Snapchat is something that they've seen a random because they don't have their account as private. 00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:34.400 So somebody randomly sends their message, hi, they respond back, and then here's all a set of penis. 00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:35.920 Yeah. 00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:38.880 Or Discord is another really big one that's coming about. 00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:53.119 That's how kids are getting into some of the ways they're getting into the dark web is through all these different chats and all these different extremists groups that are now bringing these kids in and exploiting somebody of, well, a 15-year-old boy just sent a picture of his body to somebody else. 00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.400 Now they're like, give me all this money or I'm gonna send it to your Instagram followers. 00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:58.079 I know somebody that that happened to. 00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:00.960 I have a friend whose child that they got that exact message. 00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:07.679 Like, we've had different things with Instagram, with Discord, with Snapchat, with random emails that are being sent about things. 00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:11.519 And it's just they think it's somebody their age that they're talking to, and it's it's not. 00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:24.639 It turns out that it's some 52-year-old female out of a different state or out of the country, and now their images are out there, and then there's a lot of other shame and guilt that goes with I should have known better, or why did I do that? 00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:26.400 Don't should on me. 00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:27.760 I hate the word should. 00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:29.599 I try not to use it as often as possible. 00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:30.719 Don't should on me. 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:32.639 It's associated with shame for the most part. 00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:32.960 Yep. 00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:34.400 Kids should be in a car seat. 00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:35.119 I'll give you that one. 00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:35.599 Yep. 00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:38.639 And if your kids are not in a car seat, you should be ashamed. 00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:40.159 However, definitely please follow that. 00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:42.480 Otherwise, there will be a DFES report called in for that one. 00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:43.039 For real. 00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:43.440 Yes. 00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:51.039 But yeah, no, we see it a lot more at young ages of kids being exposed to stuff through unsupervised access on phones or tablets and devices. 00:51:51.280 --> 00:52:01.519 But also, when you have your parents that are very proactive and they have all the parental controls on these phones, kids are just really advanced in technology and they can get around those. 00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:03.119 They know the different apps to download. 00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:06.719 There's one app in particular that's like it looks like a calculator on your phone. 00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:08.800 And it it literally just looks like a calculator. 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:09.760 You can use it as a calculator. 00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:13.920 But if you type in the right equation, whatever it is, it'll open up a different app. 00:52:14.239 --> 00:52:14.880 It takes you to it. 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:15.840 What's the name of this app? 00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:16.320 So I can't. 00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:17.519 I don't remember the name of it. 00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:21.280 But it's you have to have their what is their equation to be able to get into that. 00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:24.000 Oh, and there's different apps. 00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:26.320 Like you can make an app look like anything else. 00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:29.840 Or you think you're monitoring, you're doing as much as you can as a parent. 00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:32.320 You're and you're like, oh, they downloaded a calculator. 00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:32.800 Okay. 00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:35.199 But it's hidden for these other things. 00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:42.000 And some of these other apps, like Telegram, are not very warrant-friendly, I've heard from law enforcement. 00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:46.079 So like you have to have a specific URL for that chat to be able to access it. 00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:50.000 If you don't have that URL, you just have their account name, you're not getting anything. 00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:54.559 Oh my gosh, the calculator has my mind blown right now. 00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:59.360 There is so much that's gone, like so many different apps, and like kids teach me about new apps all the time. 00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:04.639 So, what can a parent do to like protect their kid, not give them a phone, like ever? 00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:05.840 Like what age is that? 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:06.800 They're gonna get a phone. 00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:09.199 They're gonna access their friend's phone, they're gonna access it now. 00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:11.119 They have all these tablets and laptops at school. 00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:12.000 Oh, it drives me nuts. 00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:13.360 They're gonna access stuff. 00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:15.119 Like kids are really smart. 00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:20.000 And so it's not setting certain

parameters on your kid, it's having the conversations with your kids. 00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:28.000 There's scary people out there in the world that want to hurt you, that want to do different things, like you have to be careful and opening that line of communication. 00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:31.599 So if something ever happened to those kids, they know you're a safe person. 00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:36.000 I can come and I can tell you, like, I messed up and you're not gonna blow a gasket on me. 00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:41.679 Like you're gonna support me, and you you might be disappointed in what happened, but you're gonna support me and we're gonna fix it. 00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:44.880 See, I think that that's the key right there. 00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:49.599 Because I can tell you my dad is my best friend in the whole entire world, okay? 00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:50.880 Love my dad. 00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.519 I can call and talk to my dad about anything. 00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:55.360 Something goes wrong, I want to call my dad. 00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:57.280 Something goes right, I want to call my dad. 00:53:57.519 --> 00:54:00.559 Anything happens, that's my first phone call. 00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:01.440 Love my husband. 00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:02.880 He's also gonna be the second phone call. 00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:07.280 But my dad's gonna be my first phone call, always and forever until his last breath. 00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:12.400 So that for me is what I think parents need to be for their kids. 00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:20.480 Or they at least they need one person in their life that is that emotional safe place where they can come to them and they're not scared that they're gonna get yelled at, lectured. 00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:22.400 Also, like advice. 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:24.559 I think lots of times parents mean really well. 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:29.199 And every time a kid comes to them with something difficult, they just want to tell them how to fix it or fix it for them. 00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:33.519 But that doesn't give that, you know, here, like, let me just listen to you. 00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:35.760 Sometimes we want a hug and sometimes we want help. 00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:41.440 Well, and when the kid comes up to you, they're already feeling the shame, they're already feeling the disappointment, like they know they messed up. 00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:43.920 They don't need that validation right now that they messed up. 00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:48.239 They need to kind of like you say, like, just kind of like, let me just melt in your arms. 00:54:48.320 --> 00:54:49.519 Like, yeah, I need help. 00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:50.239 Yes. 00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:53.840 I just, I just need to talk about it and things suck right now. 00:54:53.920 --> 00:55:00.079 And I want things to suck right now, and I don't want you to tell me, oh, it'll be fine, yeah, and dismiss and minimize and push it down. 00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:01.360 Cause for them, it's

not fine. 00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:01.760 Right. 00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:06.480 Like everybody's, and this is what I have to think of a lot with interviews, everybody's trauma is different. 00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:11.360 The worst thing that's happened to you is might be different than what I'm thinking is the worst thing that's happened to you. 00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:17.920 Like, if a kid has been sexually abused for years, I'm thinking maybe the worst, most brutal time is the worst one that happened. 00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:22.159 And the kid's like, no, it's the very first time that it ever happened because how could they ever do this to me? 00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:24.639 So, like, it makes you read about like rethinking. 00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:29.360 You're like, So, as like with interviewing, not making assumptions on anything, even in personal life. 00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:39.599 Like, don't make assumptions that this kid is dismissive of their behavior with sending these pictures because ask them how they're feeling about it, especially as kids. 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:42.559 They're so used to adults just kind of brushing them off. 00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:44.239 Like, you should have known better, you should have done that. 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:45.440 I gotta go fix your problem again. 00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:48.000 I think so much of that was boomer generation, too. 00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:51.679 I saw a lot, I hear stories all the time from adults, right? 00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:56.320 And the majority of these adults we had on this podcast, for example, have boomer parents. 00:55:56.559 --> 00:55:57.599 I even had boomer parents. 00:55:57.679 --> 00:55:59.599 My parents adopted me and they were older when they adopted me. 00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:01.760 So my dad's almost 80 and I'm 39. 00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:09.760 But that boomer generation, they were raised with so much shame, you know, and so they kind of like pass it on to the Gen Xers for the most part. 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:13.360 And it was this like, we don't talk about it, everything's closed off. 00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:20.480 And so then, like, finally, I think we got to the millennials, and millennials are like, eh-ain't doing that anymore, you know, like not happening. 00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:27.199 And I think we're like the first generation that has really told our kids, like, we're trying to become that emotional safe place. 00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:33.280 I'm sure that that's changed the world of what you do significantly compared to 50 years ago. 00:56:33.519 --> 00:56:33.760 Yeah. 00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:41.119 No, there's a lot of times that like I'll hear advocates talking about like, well, the caregiver has also said they were a victim years ago, but nothing happened. 00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:47.280 And so they're very hyper-vigilant of their child, and so very supportive, very protective. 00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:53.679 Or the other side of it's where they're like, Well, we handled

mine within the family, we're just gonna handle it within the family. 00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:58.079 So it's a different mindset of like you said, it was we don't talk about it. 00:56:58.239 --> 00:57:00.079 You handle it, you deal with it, and you move on. 00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:04.559 And that's like the generation my dad was of like, you don't you don't talk about it, figure it out, move on. 00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:08.320 If it impacts you, then I guess you're like man up. 00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:10.480 And how damaging is that? 00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:11.199 Exactly. 00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:13.119 That's so damaging. 00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:14.480 Because then what happens? 00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:15.519 They implode, right? 00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:17.199 Like they can't handle it a lot of the times. 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:22.719 I mean, some people, you know, use that and launch themselves and become super successful, all the things. 00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:36.239 But then you've got the other half of the coin and the people that are internalizing all of this and never had an outlet for it, and just like what happened with your dad, just constantly beating himself up and the self-worth issues that come along with that, and that just breaks my heart. 00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:42.559 Because it's like if he could have talked about it and gotten some of that out, release a little pressure on that pressure cooker, maybe he'd still be here right now. 00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:53.760 Well, and like I forget which study it was, but there's a research article out there that talks about disclosure with average age of disclosure and like how off, like how likely is somebody should make a disclosure. 00:57:54.079 --> 00:58:00.159 And if like out of 10 people that have been a victim of abuse, six of them will die and never say anything. 00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:01.760 Oh my gosh. 00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:06.559 60% of people die without ever disclosing abuse. 00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:08.320 Yeah. 00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:10.400 And I'm I've it's from a few years ago. 00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:17.440 So there might be some different articles that like counteract that of like, no, now it's only 40%, or that's still too many, but it's still too many. 00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:29.199 It's and that's where some of these different thoughts get like everybody's now saying they were victims, or like nobody's saying they were victims, and it's trying to put these movements together and different conversations about it. 00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:40.800 It's just it needs to be just a conversation with your kid, with kids in your lives, and knowing that it's okay to talk about this stuff, it's not it's not your fault, or it's not shameful, or it's not dirty. 00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:41.920 It's okay to say these words. 00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:48.719 What are your thoughts on when parents do say we're just gonna handle this in the family? 00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:50.639 Not able to have those thoughts

on it. 00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:52.239 Okay. 00:58:53.840 --> 00:59:03.039 What about I can say my experience, I've heard parents say like we were just gonna handle this within the family, um, and our law enforcement is handling it. 00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:03.599 Right. 00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:07.679 In my experience, that's what I've I've heard in the cases that I've been a part of. 00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:10.320 Well, yeah, because it's already been brought to that point. 00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:23.280 But as far as like just statistically speaking, so I don't know statistically speaking, just because if law enforcement doesn't know about it, can they like can they do much research about it? 00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:36.239 It could be self-reported studies that these victims are coming forward and talking about yes, they were victimized, but it could be are they some of that 60% that's gonna say they were not victimized, or are they going to say that they were victimized and this is how it's handled? 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:39.840 What's the statute of limitations for child sexual abuse? 00:59:40.159 --> 00:59:41.440 There is no statute now at this point. 00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:42.159 Oh good. 00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:45.440 I want to say it changed early 2000s. 00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:55.280 Um it before early 2000s, it was like if it was after 1980s, somewhere around there, that they could still prosecute. 00:59:55.440 --> 01:00:02.320 Now, after early 2000s, it's it can be prosecuted now, 15 years, it can be prosecuted. 01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:09.440 It just still blows my mind that there used to be one, like, oh, you better hurry up and say something, otherwise your opportunity is gonna disappear. 01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:15.199 Yeah, because like there's even cases like law enforcement will call me on and they will be like, Hey, can you help get them into therapy? 01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:17.440 Can you help get them X, Y, and Z resources? 01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:26.239 And I'll connect them with our advocates, and the advocates will get the referral sent over for the counseling services for them because they were still they're adults now, but they were children during this. 01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:31.519 So they'll still sometimes staff these cases with us to see what else we can kind of help with. 01:00:31.840 --> 01:00:36.559 Where do you think the biggest efficiency is in the system when it comes to child sexual abuse victims? 01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:38.320 Unlimited funds for our partners. 01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:52.719 They're run ragged, they're run thin all throughout the state, um, even outside of the state, of the manpower to make sure they want to investigate these cases as thoroughly as they can, and sometimes they don't have the resources to do it. 01:00:54.719 --> 01:00:59.199 I know that the shelters are always full, they're understaffed, they're underfunded. 01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:09.920 And we wonder why we have such a large population of moms

that stay in abusive relationships and can't get out, right? 01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:11.199 They have nowhere to go. 01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:23.360 So, like, what's supposed to happen when you have a mom, three kids, the guy is financially supporting them, she doesn't have a way to support her three kids by herself, the shelters are all full. 01:01:23.599 --> 01:01:28.639 Like you're saying, if there was more funding available, then she would have the option to leave. 01:01:28.719 --> 01:01:34.239 And I think so much of that too goes back to like she's not there because she has to be, she's there because she wants to be. 01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:35.440 Right. 01:01:35.599 --> 01:01:38.159 Or she's has the ability to be there at this point, right? 01:01:38.320 --> 01:02:00.559 Because it could be that they were able to get they they didn't have a ride, they didn't have any way to get to a shelter or get to an appointment or get to counseling, but having the resources to be able to help get these kids to their counseling appointments, to their medical exams, to court prep, to these different things to like prep for the possibility of this child not having to face an offender in court. 01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:05.440 I can't imagine what that's like as a child having to face an offender in court. 01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:08.480 Just, oh my gosh. 01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.480 That just, oh my gosh, I can't even the amount of bravery that that would take for a kid. 01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:18.719 How do you prepare a child that's about to go into court against that person? 01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:24.239 So I've never actually prepared the kiddos since I typically after an interview, I don't have interactions with them again. 01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:28.159 Um, I typically see them at court and they'll come say hi to me and I'll ask them, like, hey, how's school? 01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:29.280 How's your basketball game? 01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:29.760 How's this? 01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:31.599 Like, oh my gosh, you've grown so tall now. 01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:37.280 But not asking them about the case, not talking about anything personal in the sense of clear to get brought up. 01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:38.960 Is it something we talked about in our interview? 01:02:39.119 --> 01:02:42.960 I don't want to bring any of that stuff up because we're not in that role at this point. 01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:45.440 Um, and that's not my job to follow up with you. 01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:51.199 That's our advocate's job and provide the resources and the the comfort and the understanding of the justice system. 01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:58.320 Um, so they we work with some really great prosecutors, though. 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:01.280 Like they I've seen them in action. 01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:02.320 They are great. 01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:04.800 So we um, because we cover a few different counties. 01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:13.440 So we work with multiple district attorneys' offices, but consistently they will prepare with these kids as long as they need, as many times as they need, help them feel comfortable. 01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:17.440 I've seen them do walkthroughs of the courtroom before, um, even with our interviewers. 01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:20.880 If they're newer to testify, they're like, Do you want to go see the courtroom so you know where you'll be sitting? 01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:22.000 Do you know where the jury's at? 01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:23.360 So you can make sure to look at them. 01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:34.079 Um, so they're very patient and understanding of these children and these adults that are potentially testifying for the kid on this case, for them to understand. 01:03:34.880 --> 01:03:37.440 Like, not everybody's gonna react the same way on the stand. 01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:43.679 Like, meet this kid where they're at, um, ultimately knowing like this is something that it unfortunately has to happen. 01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:48.079 You keep saying that one little phrase, I want to hit that for a second. 01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:49.440 Meet them where they're at. 01:03:49.760 --> 01:03:53.360 That's a big one for me, just because of the staircase story I told you earlier. 01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:54.559 That's what she did. 01:03:54.719 --> 01:03:57.280 She met my dad where he was at and what he needed, right? 01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:02.960 Who, when you were a kid and you were going through something hard, who was it that met you where you were at? 01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:05.840 I would say both my parents, both of them equally. 01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:06.239 Yeah. 01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:14.079 I interviewed a man that had a life sentence in prison, and then tattoo artist who shot his mom's boyfriend, and like all these things. 01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:20.320 And you hear their stories and you go back to the beginning, and you're just like, well, you make sense, right? 01:04:20.480 --> 01:04:37.599 And then here you are, and you make so much sense because you're, you know, your your dad passes away, and then you find out about what happened to your father, and you're like, I'm not gonna let another kid experience what my dad experienced without somebody there to just let them talk about it. 01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:42.480 I guess because you're not emotional, like you said, like you're really good at compartmentalizing. 01:04:42.639 --> 01:04:47.360 I think naturally for me, my the hardest part for me would be like, I would want to like cross over an advocate role. 01:04:47.840 --> 01:04:49.199 How do you do that? 01:04:49.440 --> 01:05:00.320 Um, I can think of one interview in particular that not that it hit a nerve, but it connect, I connected more with this kid because we're sitting there, we're talking, and all of a sudden this kid just kind of breaks down crying, and I was like, What's wrong? 01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:01.280 What's wrong, buddy? 01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:03.519 I just want to know my dad's proud of me.

01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:06.880 And I had no idea that his father had passed away recently. 01:05:07.119 --> 01:05:10.079 So, like with that one, it's just like a hey, like, what do you mean by that? 01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:11.840 And he explained it to me, and I didn't know that. 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:15.119 So, like, it struck that nerve of like I was young when it happened. 01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:17.599 So I was like, hey, buddy, I'm sure your dad's proud of you. 01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:39.920 That like was I stayed within my realm as an interviewer, but I was able to explain to this young, young child sitting there, I understand you're having this feeling, but I think for me, the advocate side, they are some special human beings and they deserve their pillow to be cold every night and the front row parking spot in the shade. 01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:40.880 They deserve all those things. 01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:45.760 As an interviewer, I'm in the limelight all the time because I get people get to watch what I do. 01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:54.000 They're behind the scenes to help keep these families going and their resources and connections and following up with them on their good days or bad days in between. 01:05:54.239 --> 01:06:04.719 And so as an interviewer, it's knowing like at the end of the The most important thing is I remain neutral and keep the space open for this kid. 01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:08.000 If I cross this boundary, there's no going back to that. 01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:10.400 So knowing like I have my job to do. 01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:14.559 If I if I'm not able to do my job, I should not be in that interview at that time. 01:06:14.719 --> 01:06:21.679 So if you had like a really hard case that you're like, I just, I can't, like, I can't do child fatality after child fatality. 01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:25.039 Like, I'm not gonna have my girls do a child fatality without me there. 01:06:25.360 --> 01:06:30.480 Because I want them to feel the support to be able to react afterwards if they need to. 01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:34.400 And knowing like for those two hours you're talking to that kid, nothing else matters. 01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:37.039 Whether it's personal, it's professional, nothing else matters. 01:06:37.280 --> 01:06:38.960 That kid is what's important in there. 01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:41.679 Because sometimes all you have is one chance with the kid. 01:06:43.119 --> 01:06:50.400 So when you say that you're doing these child fatalities, are you talking about interviewing the siblings who were present during this or something? 01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:50.960 It could be. 01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:52.320 It's just any child fatality. 01:06:52.400 --> 01:06:57.760 If there's, say, for instance, car accidents, medical deaths, potential homicides, whatever it might be. 01:06:57.920 --> 01:07:01.199 Um, like drownings, things like that. 01:07:01.280 --> 01:07:03.599 It's just more so for like supervision style stuff. 01:07:03.679 --> 01:07:06.320 Um, or it could be for like criminal charges. 01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:09.599 And so it's any of the surviving children's, whether they were there or not. 01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:11.760 Um, depending on the situation. 01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:18.639 Sometimes there is some absolute, like, there's some very, very clear documentation on certain things with medical stuff with kiddos. 01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:23.119 Um, and then it's a conversation with the partners that my team does. 01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:29.920 Is it beneficial for the kid to come in and talk about these things, or do y'all have enough information from documentation as of right now? 01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:38.880 How often do you have a parent that loses their shit in your in your office? 01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:39.440 Does that happen? 01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:40.960 Where's the wood to knock on? 01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:42.480 We have not had it in a while. 01:07:42.639 --> 01:07:42.960 Okay. 01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:46.480 A lot of the times it's the parents that want to be in the room with us while we're talking. 01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:48.719 Um, and so it's just educating them, like, I'm so sorry. 01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:57.440 And our protocol is you're not able to be in there, and our advocate is able to then go in later and explain to them this is the reason that we don't have parents in the interview room with us. 01:07:57.599 --> 01:08:02.079 It's the only other person that's allowed in that forensic interview room would be interpreters if we needed them. 01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:03.760 But otherwise, it's just me and the kid. 01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:05.519 And that's the hardest part with the parents. 01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:08.000 And how long does that interview typically last for? 01:08:08.239 --> 01:08:10.079 Girl, that oh, that can depend. 01:08:10.159 --> 01:08:14.880 I've walked in, I've had a kid respectfully and disrespectfully tell me, like, no, F you, I'm not talking. 01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:16.000 Like, that would have been valid. 01:08:16.399 --> 01:08:17.279 Like, valid, that's fine. 01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:18.079 Yeah, that would have been mean. 01:08:18.159 --> 01:08:20.079 And then I'll ask them, like, how come you don't want to talk? 01:08:20.239 --> 01:08:20.880 What's going on? 01:08:20.960 --> 01:08:23.279 To know, like, are there any coaching concerns for my team? 01:08:23.439 --> 01:08:28.560 Are there any concerns for, well, I don't want to talk to you today because I've got a sports game later today, and that's what I need to get to that. 01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:29.760 I can't miss too much school. 01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:31.359 Okay, we're meeting the kid where they're at. 01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:33.520 Of you want to pick a different day, that's cool. 01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:38.720 Um, I've talked to a kid for between two different days for like eight hours. 01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:45.920 So it it really just depends on what their situation is, what all

they want to talk about, what all we need to talk about and discuss. 01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:47.359 It really varies. 01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:55.760 Typically, it's between like an hour and a half and two hours for older kiddos, or for kind of just depends because you might have a kid that gets in there and they're like, hey, no bullshit. 01:08:55.840 --> 01:08:57.680 Like, I don't, I don't care to get to know you. 01:08:57.760 --> 01:08:59.199 Like, let's just get into what I'm here for. 01:08:59.359 --> 01:08:59.680 Wow. 01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:00.640 Cool, let's do it. 01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:02.000 I'm that's fine with me. 01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:08.960 Or you have the kiddo that you need to sit there and you need to build a lot more rapport with them and or learn how they speak, learning if they have any speech delays. 01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:13.039 Are they echolalian and they're gonna repeat the last thing that you say for answers? 01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:14.479 Are they just shy? 01:09:14.720 --> 01:09:17.279 Do they are they do they need some time to warm up to you? 01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:19.520 Did you learn all of that kind of stuff in training? 01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:20.159 Yep. 01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:22.479 I want this training. 01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:27.520 Okay, talk to me about what what educational stuff, what was the path to get to do what you do today? 01:09:27.680 --> 01:09:29.359 Well, I have a bachelor's degree in psychology. 01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:30.000 Same check. 01:09:30.079 --> 01:09:31.840 I I have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice. 01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:32.159 Nice. 01:09:32.239 --> 01:09:33.119 You got two bachelor's? 01:09:33.279 --> 01:09:34.479 Like you just like double majored them? 01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:35.279 I double majored. 01:09:35.359 --> 01:09:38.079 I was an overachiever and did it three and a half years to get out of college. 01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:38.319 Yeah. 01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:40.159 And then I went in to get my master's. 01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:43.119 So I have a master's in criminology in Florida State. 01:09:43.279 --> 01:09:45.520 And then I worked at MHED for a few years. 01:09:45.600 --> 01:09:49.760 I did MCOT for a while, and that was where you did all like the homicidal, suicidal, psychotic. 01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:55.119 Worked with a lot of really great psychiatrists that helped me understand, like, and even our ER staff. 01:09:55.199 --> 01:09:56.399 I still work with some of them now. 01:09:56.560 --> 01:10:06.159 So, like, we're just learned a lot from MHD with the clients, with the other coworkers of knowing where my resources are, what can I ask? 01:10:06.239 --> 01:10:06.880 What can't I ask? 01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:12.800 And that's where I really learned to start interviewing people because of having to talk to them about like I can't go up to you and be like, Are you psychotic? 01:10:13.039 --> 01:10:14.800 Because you might be like, What's that mean? 01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:15.680 Or whatnot. 01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:17.439 Well, I'm not gonna ask you, are you homicidal? 01:10:17.520 --> 01:10:18.640 Because then maybe you'll attack me. 01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:21.760 I gotta figure out a different way to ask these questions to gather the information. 01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:23.119 So did that for a while. 01:10:23.199 --> 01:10:24.720 And then I ended up finding this job. 01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:28.880 And then I started off as an interviewer and an advocate to where I was doing interviews and working with a student. 01:10:29.199 --> 01:10:30.239 So you can do both. 01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:31.359 So I was. 01:10:31.840 --> 01:10:32.800 We have roles. 01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:35.760 So we have our forensic specialist and our family specialist. 01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:39.520 So we're dual role, but you will never be like both roles on the same case. 01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:40.640 Oh, that makes sense. 01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:48.640 So um, but if we need like, hey, I need my bilingual advocate, but I need a Spanish-speaking interviewer, we can move people around. 01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:57.359 Or we have the luxury of we have multiple bilingual folks at our agency, which is absolutely incredible because you don't have to pay for translation services or interpreter services. 01:10:57.439 --> 01:10:58.880 It's ugh, they're a godsend. 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:09.840 Um, so go through all of our different block trainings for CAC Texas where they teach you about interviewing and the reason we ask questions the way we do of don't ever ask anybody why, um, because that sounds accusatory. 01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:11.199 Ask somebody how come that happened. 01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:15.920 Sounds a lot more inviting of why did you wear those shoes today versus how come you wore those shoes today? 01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:17.920 It's a whole different tone to it. 01:11:18.159 --> 01:11:23.199 Went through a lot of different training, just a lot, a lot, a lot of training over the years. 01:11:23.359 --> 01:11:25.760 My CV is like five plus pages long. 01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:26.880 I like the challenges. 01:11:26.960 --> 01:11:35.600 I'm training in a different modality also to be able to know like a different national modality of how do they do it versus how does Texas do it and similar to it. 01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:42.960 And then I ended up about two years ago, I ended up getting on our membership agency, CAC Texas faculty. 01:11:43.039 --> 01:11:59.039 So I would help review um forensic interviews with like the people in training and help them while they're doing their mock interviews because that is terrifying of you're like, am I following the process, but I have to ask questions and gather details, and it's you're you're a baby interviewer, you have no idea what you're doing at this point, and you're like, I'm gonna do it. 01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:04.399 But then seeing their growth from block one to block two, and they were showing their

interviews, you're like, girl, you did the thing. 01:12:04.479 --> 01:12:05.439 I told you you could do it. 01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:08.720 And then learning how to prep for court, going to outside trainings. 01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:11.760 So now I actually teach forensic interviewing. 01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:12.640 New people coming in. 01:12:12.720 --> 01:12:13.840 So it's like a full circle moment. 01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:17.600 So now some of the people I work with on faculty, they actually trained me. 01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:24.000 So it's nice to like come full circle with where I started, where I'm at, and just like the like I love interviewing. 01:12:24.079 --> 01:12:28.479 I will talk about it's flying blue in the face because of how different it is and how exciting. 01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:32.479 Not every interview is the same way, and it probably is not gonna go how you think it might go. 01:12:33.119 --> 01:12:41.680 How do you separate yourself from like when you know you're having a conversation with a child and like like intuitively, like I said, you know something has happened? 01:12:41.760 --> 01:12:48.640 How do you separate yourself to the point of not not only not asking leading questions? 01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:58.960 I know you can't ask any type of leading question, but not making any type of predetermined thought, even in your own head, that something did or didn't happen this way or that way. 01:12:59.119 --> 01:13:00.720 Like, how do you separate yourself from that? 01:13:00.880 --> 01:13:06.479 A lot of training because you don't want to have any kind of implicit bias that I'm only gonna ask you questions about this one thing. 01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:14.560 There always needs to be an alternative hypothesis because there's potentially something that happened with more than one person or it didn't happen the way that you think it did. 01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:19.680 So the best way that I do it with my head is that kind of picture it like a movie clip in your head. 01:13:19.840 --> 01:13:24.399 Like a kid's telling you about a narrative and you're starting back at the beginning and you're trying to walk yourself through it. 01:13:24.479 --> 01:13:26.479 So you get this whole video clip in your head. 01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:29.439 And if there's a gap, well, that's the information I need to gather. 01:13:29.680 --> 01:13:30.479 Fascinating. 01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:31.359 Yeah. 01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:36.560 Can you take these classes without like being in the field? 01:13:36.800 --> 01:13:43.279 Because I just, I'm so I love the whole interviewing and understanding human behavior stuff. 01:13:43.520 --> 01:13:43.920 I love it. 01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:48.640 And then it's also like with developmental status of kids, you're not gonna talk to the four-year-old like you do the eight-year-old. 01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:48.800 Right. 01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:51.279 You're not gonna talk to an eight-year-old the same way you do an 11-year-old. 01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:57.199 But similarly, I've talked to a three-year-old the same way I've talked to an eight-year-old before because they were so advanced developmentally. 01:13:57.439 --> 01:14:02.880 It depends on their school, their family, their communication style, like any, any of those things. 01:14:03.199 --> 01:14:08.479 So that's why I truly enjoy my job because every kid is different. 01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:12.880 Like, it's not a cookie cutter case ever. 01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:14.640 Like it's every day. 01:14:14.720 --> 01:14:16.159 Yeah, every day you walk into something new. 01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:19.680 And like kids teach me about so much stuff, and like I hate it now that I'm getting older. 01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:21.439 They're like, oh yeah, listen to throwback music. 01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:22.479 Yeah, tell me about it. 01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:23.680 Oh, like little weight. 01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:26.239 I'm like, don't you dare say you use throwback at this time. 01:14:26.319 --> 01:14:27.520 And they're like, Yeah, tea pain. 01:14:27.680 --> 01:14:29.920 I'm like, ha ha ha ha, these are frightened words, kids. 01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:33.840 But like learning different things of what interests these kids now, what are they into? 01:14:34.640 --> 01:14:43.279 And they're like, they love to explain those things and talk about themselves in that sense of like they're the experts in their lives, let them be the experts in their lives. 01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:56.239 When parents start becoming curious and they think that they know their child better than their child knows themselves, it causes that child a lot of times to not trust themselves and then eventually resent their parent for thinking that they know them better. 01:14:56.319 --> 01:14:59.039 And it's like we have to let them be the author of their own life. 01:14:59.199 --> 01:14:59.680 Yeah. 01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:02.239 Only you know why you do things. 01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:03.600 I don't know why you do things. 01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:06.159 I could have my assumptions, but who is that serving? 01:15:06.560 --> 01:15:07.199 I want to know from you. 01:15:07.279 --> 01:15:08.159 I want to become curious. 01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:10.560 I want to understand like why do you do what you do? 01:15:10.720 --> 01:15:13.680 Because there could be five different reasons why you have the same behavior that I do. 01:15:13.760 --> 01:15:14.960 It'd be completely different. 01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:20.159 You know, it doesn't make it the same motivation and an internal reality, just the same behavior. 01:15:20.319 --> 01:15:20.720 Yes. 01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:22.640 That's why I'm fascinated with human behavior. 01:15:23.119 --> 01:15:23.840 Love it, you know. 01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:26.560 So, like, how come? 01:15:27.199 --> 01:15:27.760 How come? 01:15:28.239 --> 01:15:28.479 How come? 01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:31.199 Yeah, no, if you start telling people, tell me more about it, talk

to me about it. 01:15:31.359 --> 01:15:37.439 Like an open-ended narrative allows people to explain more of their situation, their story, their whatever they want to talk about, their day. 01:15:37.600 --> 01:15:38.640 Tell me about your day at school. 01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:39.439 Oh, it's good. 01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:40.720 Tell me everything you did. 01:15:41.039 --> 01:15:44.800 What's the number one rule when you're speaking to a child or an adult? 01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:46.159 It doesn't have to be a child. 01:15:46.399 --> 01:15:54.960 Speaking to somebody, and say you want to make sure that you don't say something in this conversation that's going to like automatically shut them down. 01:15:55.039 --> 01:15:57.039 Like, like you're saying, open-ended questions, right? 01:15:57.199 --> 01:16:02.079 How do you keep in the back of your mind to keep it open-ended without it like drawing a closure? 01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:05.119 So the biggest one is like, oh, tell me about that. 01:16:05.359 --> 01:16:12.880 Or if like if they have a differing opinion than you, that can happen a lot during meetings, or it can happen during with your kids, with your spouse. 01:16:12.960 --> 01:16:15.840 It's like, tell me the reason you're thinking that. 01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:18.239 Or tell me, tell me how come you feel that way. 01:16:18.399 --> 01:16:23.199 Because then it opens up that I want to understand you before I give you my opinion and my thoughts on it. 01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:31.600 Because that might change my opinions and my thoughts if you're like, well, I did this because tell me, tell me the reason you left the clothes in the washer. 01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:38.960 Well, because I got distracted, because then I started doing the kids and I left it in the washer, or I was doing the dishes and then da-da-da, and I forgot to come back and do it. 01:16:39.199 --> 01:16:41.680 That's different than me thinking you're just lazy, you didn't do it. 01:16:41.840 --> 01:16:42.319 Totally. 01:16:42.560 --> 01:16:46.000 So it just helps you understand more of the narrative behind situations. 01:16:46.239 --> 01:16:49.199 Well, I think it gives you more empathy and compassion too, right? 01:16:49.279 --> 01:16:59.119 Because if you're just assuming, oh, well, maybe he's being passive aggressive because I didn't make his coffee this morning, so he didn't want to go transfer the laundry for me like I asked him to, and then you come at him with an attitude about it. 01:16:59.279 --> 01:17:01.359 He's like, nah, dude, I just completely forgot. 01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:01.600 Right. 01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:04.960 Everybody's so different of like, I overthink things. 01:17:05.119 --> 01:17:10.319 My husband, not that he under thinks it, but like sometimes I'm like, dude, read the room, like, what? 01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:12.000 Or he's like, why don't you sit down? 01:17:12.079 --> 01:17:16.000 I'm like, because this needs to be done, this, this, this, this, this, and

like, if I'll sit down after that. 01:17:16.159 --> 01:17:17.520 And he's like sitting down already. 01:17:17.680 --> 01:17:18.800 I'm like, okay, whatever. 01:17:18.880 --> 01:17:20.560 It'll be faster if I do it myself. 01:17:20.800 --> 01:17:21.119 Uh-huh. 01:17:21.439 --> 01:17:25.600 Have you always been the type of person that needs to do it themselves in order to make sure they get stubb? 01:17:25.840 --> 01:17:30.079 I'm trying not to be because I need to do better about delegating things, especially. 01:17:30.159 --> 01:17:36.960 I think having kids has really taught me that because my kids want to help so much, and kids love feeling like they're helping you. 01:17:37.119 --> 01:17:40.159 So I'm like, yeah, you can help me put the dishes away. 01:17:40.319 --> 01:17:41.920 It takes me 20 minutes longer. 01:17:42.079 --> 01:17:44.239 Yeah, I would love your help to fold these towels. 01:17:44.399 --> 01:17:46.239 I'm gonna have to refold before I put them away. 01:17:46.399 --> 01:17:46.640 100%. 01:17:46.960 --> 01:17:47.760 I'd love your help. 01:17:47.920 --> 01:17:50.640 But it's making them feel important and then feel included. 01:17:50.960 --> 01:17:53.600 They're narrating their learning experience also. 01:17:53.840 --> 01:17:54.239 Totally. 01:17:54.399 --> 01:17:57.920 And making them just feel like they're a part of it instead of you taking that from them. 01:17:58.079 --> 01:18:00.640 Because if you just do everything for them all the time, they never learn. 01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:00.960 Yeah. 01:18:01.039 --> 01:18:01.279 Right? 01:18:01.359 --> 01:18:02.319 They have to learn at some point. 01:18:02.479 --> 01:18:06.239 Well, and I think now, like my five-year-old, she loves to make her bed. 01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:10.159 Because I taught her, I was like, hey, we turn our clothes right side out when you put them in the laundry basket. 01:18:10.319 --> 01:18:11.760 We make our bed every morning. 01:18:12.000 --> 01:18:15.920 So now she'll wake up the morning, she straightens out her bed, puts all of her stuffed animals there, and she goes, I made my bed. 01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:17.119 Oh thanks, babe. 01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:18.000 Oh, I got a good question. 01:18:18.560 --> 01:18:19.359 I love good questions. 01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:30.239 Oh how do you listen to understand instead of listen to respond in a conversation with your child? 01:18:31.119 --> 01:18:32.399 That's a hard one. 01:18:33.279 --> 01:18:40.800 So personally, when it's my personal kids, I'm listening, like take a deep breath before you react. 01:18:40.880 --> 01:18:44.560 I'm learning that one still of like something frustrates you, don't react to that. 01:18:45.119 --> 01:18:47.199 Take a deep breath before you go through anything. 01:18:47.680 --> 01:18:48.399 Open narrative. 01:18:48.960 --> 01:18:49.600 Tell me about it. 01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:51.840 How come you're having big emotions right now? 01:18:52.399 --> 01:18:54.319 What's making you feel this

way right now? 01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:58.479 Because then it's like making them of like, well, I just want you. 01:18:58.560 --> 01:19:00.239 Okay, what about me do you want? 01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:01.359 What's going on? 01:19:01.520 --> 01:19:03.199 How come you're feeling this way right now? 01:19:03.520 --> 01:19:10.159 Slowing them down with that open narrative is really helping with the free response for the kids. 01:19:10.479 --> 01:19:13.199 Now, how about when you're in an interview Tory? 01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:14.479 Interview Tory. 01:19:14.960 --> 01:19:18.159 So when I'm like if you're the kid, I'm sitting there and I'm talking to you. 01:19:18.239 --> 01:19:23.119 Like, I'm looking at you, I'm engaging with you, but in my brain, I'm picturing everything you're explaining. 01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:33.920 So you don't have enough time to like feel what they're telling you in the sense of like you're not feeling, I'm not gonna feel any shame, guilt, blame, any of those things with these kids. 01:19:34.079 --> 01:19:40.319 I'm understanding the information you're presenting to me, and I've got five different things that I'm thinking I could ask you, depending on how you answer this question. 01:19:40.479 --> 01:19:44.720 And trying to remember, okay, sticky note that question for later, sticky note that question for you later. 01:19:44.960 --> 01:19:49.359 You mentioned this, I need to circle back to that in the correct time within the sequence of events. 01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:54.319 So like you're so busy mentally while you're sitting in that room, you're like, what have I missed? 01:19:54.560 --> 01:20:03.439 So, like sometimes walking out of like a two-hour interview, you are absolutely exhausted because there's so much thought that goes into I need this information, how do I ask the question? 01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:10.000 How do I get to that topic to be able to ask that information instead of being like, hey, so I see that you're wearing a mic, tell me about it. 01:20:10.239 --> 01:20:11.359 We can do that, yeah. 01:20:11.439 --> 01:20:12.800 But then it's like I'm attacked, right? 01:20:13.039 --> 01:20:13.920 What's a better way of doing that? 01:20:14.079 --> 01:20:17.760 Like, yeah, tell me about making videos, tell me about do this, tell me about the videos. 01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:18.720 Wow. 01:20:18.960 --> 01:20:24.800 So it's it's a mental game to have to like make it a very fluid conversation as much as we can with kids. 01:20:25.039 --> 01:20:31.760 Um so it's being aware of how could they answer these questions? 01:20:31.920 --> 01:20:35.119 Could could I ask them like, oh, can you tell me about this? 01:20:35.840 --> 01:20:36.159 No. 01:20:37.760 --> 01:20:38.079 Okay. 01:20:38.479 --> 01:20:42.880 Because I asked a can you question, so that's like an inviting response versus, hey, tell me about this. 01:20:44.079 --> 01:20:47.840 And what if you have a highly autonomous child that's like, don't tell me what to do, bitch. 01:20:47.920 --> 01:20:48.399 Now what? 01:20:48.560 --> 01:20:51.840 So I've had to be like, just ask me the questions you want to ask me. 01:20:51.920 --> 01:20:53.840 And I'm like, well, I can't do that. 01:20:54.159 --> 01:20:58.319 And so then I'll explain to them typically with the kiddos like that that are a little spicy with teenage. 01:20:59.119 --> 01:21:01.840 I love them because there's they're misunderstood sometimes. 01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:03.039 I'm so lowly. 01:21:03.119 --> 01:21:03.279 Yeah. 01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:04.800 They're like, this kid is so disrespectful. 01:21:04.960 --> 01:21:05.439 And I'm like, no. 01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:08.479 This child wants to be able to have their own voice and their own things. 01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:10.640 Like, you can have whatever you want in this room. 01:21:10.720 --> 01:21:11.119 That's okay. 01:21:11.199 --> 01:21:11.279 Yeah. 01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:12.319 You want to act. 01:21:12.640 --> 01:21:14.399 If you want to have an attitude, have an attitude. 01:21:14.479 --> 01:21:15.359 Just be respectful of me. 01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:15.840 I don't care. 01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:16.159 Yeah. 01:21:16.399 --> 01:21:20.399 Um, so I just then I go into it with kids, like, this is the reason I ask so many questions. 01:21:20.479 --> 01:21:24.720 This is the way I ask the questions, and this is how come like we're doing this right now. 01:21:24.880 --> 01:21:27.119 If you don't want to do this, the door's right there. 01:21:27.279 --> 01:21:27.680 That's okay. 01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:28.880 You do not have to talk to me at all. 01:21:29.039 --> 01:21:30.319 And then now all of a sudden they want to talk. 01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:33.279 So sometimes, yeah, sometimes kids are like, I'm just done for the day. 01:21:33.439 --> 01:21:33.760 Cool. 01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:36.800 You tell your parent when you're ready to come back and you come back and talk to me. 01:21:36.880 --> 01:21:39.359 Or they're like, Yeah, this is BSML. 01:21:39.680 --> 01:21:39.920 Cool. 01:21:40.479 --> 01:21:41.359 That's fine. 01:21:41.760 --> 01:21:45.520 Or the kids are just crying by the end of it, and they're like, Thank you so much for like being patient. 01:21:46.079 --> 01:21:46.399 Absolutely. 01:21:46.479 --> 01:21:47.760 Is there anything else we should talk about? 01:21:49.279 --> 01:21:49.920 Wow. 01:21:51.439 --> 01:21:52.079 All right. 01:21:52.800 --> 01:21:53.840 Last question. 01:21:54.000 --> 01:21:54.720 I love it. 01:22:02.159 --> 01:22:03.920 Are you thinking about how to say it correctly? 01:22:04.159 --> 01:22:04.640 I am. 01:22:05.119 --> 01:22:08.319 Look at you over there observing an interviewer. 01:22:08.560 --> 01:22:12.880 I'm trying to like put all my thoughts into that question the right way. 01:22:13.199 --> 01:22:23.039 I want to know if your dad was still alive, if he's standing here right now and you had 60 seconds to tell him what you're doing. 01:22:23.439 --> 01:22:24.960 What would

you say to him? 01:22:27.840 --> 01:22:29.840 Honestly, I don't think I'd talk to him about work. 01:22:30.319 --> 01:22:30.560 Really? 01:22:31.600 --> 01:22:32.399 Tell him about my kids. 01:22:32.800 --> 01:22:34.960 Tell him about my cows, my husband. 01:22:35.680 --> 01:22:38.479 Um I don't talk about work. 01:22:38.960 --> 01:22:47.920 I don't Honestly, I'd probably spend some of that time playing music for him because he always loved to do like the embarrassing dad dances. 01:22:48.399 --> 01:22:49.760 Like just saying that one more time. 01:22:50.239 --> 01:22:50.560 Yeah. 01:22:50.800 --> 01:22:51.199 Yep. 01:22:53.439 --> 01:22:57.439 What do you think he would say if he knew what you ended up doing for a living? 01:22:57.760 --> 01:22:58.880 Oh, he'd tell me he's proud. 01:22:59.760 --> 01:23:00.319 Absolutely. 01:23:00.560 --> 01:23:06.800 My mom tells me all the time, she always talks about how proud he would be of what I'm doing and how proud she is of what I'm doing. 01:23:07.359 --> 01:23:10.159 And like it's and in my head, I'm like, it's my job. 01:23:10.319 --> 01:23:11.920 Like it's nothing less. 01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:15.439 Like that's kind of the expectation, the threshold of I'm gonna do it no matter what. 01:23:16.479 --> 01:23:17.439 I think he'd be proud of it. 01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:19.760 I think he'd be beyond proud. 01:23:20.560 --> 01:23:23.119 I think he would just be like, That's my girl. 01:23:23.760 --> 01:23:24.159 Yeah. 01:23:24.399 --> 01:23:43.359 I think he would be team Tory all the way, and I think he would be honored to know that his little girl, because of something that happened to him, became that adult that he would have needed. 01:23:44.399 --> 01:23:45.680 Like that's legacy. 01:23:46.159 --> 01:23:47.279 You created the legacy. 01:23:47.359 --> 01:23:48.560 Do you realize that? 01:23:49.680 --> 01:23:52.640 I'm not big on like the self-acknowledgement. 01:23:53.359 --> 01:23:54.079 Just saying. 01:23:54.720 --> 01:23:57.520 No, I just let be able to tell him like I'm proud of you. 01:23:57.920 --> 01:23:59.760 No hard feelings, nothing. 01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:01.840 Okay, one more question. 01:24:01.920 --> 01:24:02.560 I said that was the last one. 01:24:02.640 --> 01:24:03.039 It's not gonna be a good thing. 01:24:03.199 --> 01:24:04.479 It's okay, it happens all the time in the interviews. 01:24:04.560 --> 01:24:05.359 You remember different stuff. 01:24:05.520 --> 01:24:07.840 Catching up on little nuggets that were dropped earlier. 01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:09.279 Yeah, it happens. 01:24:10.079 --> 01:24:11.439 You said that you were not emotional. 01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:12.880 Have you always been that way? 01:24:14.399 --> 01:24:16.640 Um, I would say yes. 01:24:16.880 --> 01:24:22.159 It's gotten a I don't want to say it's gotten a lot more noticeable since doing this job. 01:24:22.720 --> 01:24:25.359 Because of like, I'll joke to my husband sometimes. 01:24:25.439 --> 01:24:27.520 I'm like, do you want interviewer Tory or do you want wife Tory? 01:24:27.680 --> 01:24:28.720 Which one do you want right now? 01:24:28.800 --> 01:24:34.239 Because do you need me to hear out the entire situation or do you need my my thoughts and opinions on this? 01:24:34.479 --> 01:24:36.399 And he's like, I don't want interviewer Tory. 01:24:36.640 --> 01:24:37.279 Stop talking. 01:24:37.600 --> 01:24:37.920 Okay. 01:24:38.239 --> 01:24:39.199 I can't control that. 01:24:39.439 --> 01:24:49.920 But it definitely impacts if somebody comes to me with something personal, like I'm not gonna, like, if you're if you start crying, I automatically go into interview mode, like, okay, talk to me about it. 01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:50.560 Like, what's going on? 01:24:50.640 --> 01:24:53.119 Tell me about your emotions, how can I help this situation? 01:24:54.640 --> 01:25:00.239 The laughter, I've always been like big personality with laughing and joking, those are the emotions you're gonna see. 01:25:00.399 --> 01:25:06.239 You're not gonna see the sadness, the like defeat, the different things. 01:25:06.560 --> 01:25:07.760 Like, that doesn't define me. 01:25:08.479 --> 01:25:09.039 Why? 01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:10.880 How come? 01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:12.800 Great question. 01:25:13.279 --> 01:25:18.720 So, in my head, like there is so much shit that's in this world. 01:25:19.279 --> 01:25:20.800 I don't want to let that define me. 01:25:20.960 --> 01:25:28.720 I want to be happy, I want to enjoy life, I want to enjoy the people I'm around and be a person that when somebody walks in the room, hey, how was your vacation? 01:25:28.880 --> 01:25:29.359 How is this? 01:25:29.439 --> 01:25:31.039 Not because I'm nosy and I'm annoying. 01:25:31.119 --> 01:25:32.319 Sometimes it's because of those things. 01:25:32.479 --> 01:25:33.600 Girl, don't even lie right now. 01:25:34.079 --> 01:25:35.279 Sometimes it's because of those things. 01:25:35.359 --> 01:25:35.600 Yes. 01:25:35.760 --> 01:25:37.199 But it's because I want you to feel special. 01:25:37.359 --> 01:25:38.159 I want you to feel important. 01:25:38.239 --> 01:25:40.880 I don't want you to walk in and be like, oh, Tori's in a mood today. 01:25:41.039 --> 01:25:41.279 Yeah. 01:25:41.439 --> 01:25:44.720 Like, I want you to be like, I walked into Cap and like she's just friendly. 01:25:44.960 --> 01:25:45.600 Yeah. 01:25:46.079 --> 01:25:46.960 Can I get your snap? 01:25:47.039 --> 01:25:47.199 Drink. 01:25:47.279 --> 01:25:47.680 They're right there. 01:25:47.760 --> 01:25:48.239 What's going on? 01:25:48.399 --> 01:25:50.079 That's special and important thing. 01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:53.039 So many people just want to feel special and important. 01:25:53.279 --> 01:25:55.840 And that's exactly like what I live by. 01:25:56.000 --> 01:26:00.640 Is I want everybody in every interaction with me to walk away feeling special and important. 01:26:00.960 --> 01:26:01.439 Always. 01:26:01.600 --> 01:26:04.960 I

don't ever want to be the person that makes you second guess who you are. 01:26:05.039 --> 01:26:05.279 Yep. 01:26:05.439 --> 01:26:09.199 Or that if you're okay, I want you to feel safe with me. 01:26:09.279 --> 01:26:14.079 And and I every day I'm trying to be better at making sure that people feel safe with me. 01:26:14.159 --> 01:26:20.399 And I know there's been so many times where I was not that person for somebody, even my own children. 01:26:20.640 --> 01:26:22.640 I made a lot of very questionable decisions. 01:26:22.720 --> 01:26:24.079 I was a very young mom. 01:26:24.239 --> 01:26:28.239 I was a mom that married some very questionable people. 01:26:28.399 --> 01:26:30.640 Luckily, nothing bad ever happened to my children. 01:26:30.720 --> 01:26:34.880 And I feel like I'm so lucky that nothing happened like that to my kids. 01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:38.800 Because I definitely put them in situations where it very well could have. 01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:46.880 I know that lots of times moms get with these guys and they repeat that pattern over and over again. 01:26:46.960 --> 01:26:52.319 And next thing you know, there's a child being molested in the home, or like it's just, oh my gosh. 01:26:52.479 --> 01:26:55.039 And I could tell you as a young mom, I had no idea those statistics. 01:26:55.439 --> 01:26:56.479 I had no idea. 01:26:56.720 --> 01:26:58.079 It's not what you're thinking about as a mother. 01:26:58.159 --> 01:27:00.239 You're thinking that this person loves me, loves my kids. 01:27:00.399 --> 01:27:02.560 They they want to have those connections. 01:27:02.720 --> 01:27:08.960 And it's not putting the blame on the parents because as a parent, you're doing the best that you can with what you're given and what what you have. 01:27:09.199 --> 01:27:09.840 Right. 01:27:10.479 --> 01:27:15.520 And unfortunately, sometimes your best still creates negative impact and you have to own it. 01:27:15.920 --> 01:27:17.840 You can't just be like, oh, well, it was my best. 01:27:17.920 --> 01:27:19.680 So I don't have to take any accountability. 01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:22.960 I did do my best, but honestly, I probably still could have done better. 01:27:23.439 --> 01:27:28.560 And not only could I have done better, but my best still caused a bunch of trauma for my kids. 01:27:28.800 --> 01:27:32.079 My decisions still caused a bunch of trauma for my kids. 01:27:32.239 --> 01:27:34.319 And a lot of the times I was being very selfish. 01:27:34.800 --> 01:27:42.800 A lot of the times I was way too worried about me feeling loved and not wanting to put my kids in daycare and having to go get a job. 01:27:42.880 --> 01:27:45.119 So for me, it was like, oh, well, you know this. 01:27:45.279 --> 01:27:51.520 And I realized that because when I started making my own money, that's when I had the I don't have to be here anymore. 01:27:51.680 --> 01:27:51.840 Yeah. 01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:53.199 And that's when I left. 01:27:53.439 --> 01:27:59.600 And so that's a feeling that I want for every mom that's in a domestic violence situation of you don't have to. 01:28:00.159 --> 01:28:03.279 Be there because there are resources that can help you out of this. 01:28:03.439 --> 01:28:09.439 And without funding those resources, like you were talking about, those moms are trapped and they have nowhere to go. 01:28:09.600 --> 01:28:16.960 And they have to decide between do I put up with this abuse or do I and have a roof over my kids' head and food in their bellies? 01:28:17.279 --> 01:28:20.640 Or do I leave and end up homeless in a vehicle with my children? 01:28:20.720 --> 01:28:23.119 And then DFPS comes in and takes away my children. 01:28:23.199 --> 01:28:25.600 And then now we're separated and they have even more trauma. 01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:26.000 Yep. 01:28:26.159 --> 01:28:30.239 And then lots of times, unfortunately, I've seen this happen a bunch. 01:28:30.880 --> 01:28:38.880 Domestic violence situation happens, kids end up being removed because they witnessed the domestic violence and mom is only staying for that reason. 01:28:39.279 --> 01:28:43.920 The hardest thing that a parent or that a domestic violence survivor can do is make the decision to leave. 01:28:44.079 --> 01:28:44.560 It's hard. 01:28:44.720 --> 01:28:46.079 It's the hardest decision they can make. 01:28:46.159 --> 01:28:48.720 And then it comes to do they have the resources to do it now. 01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:49.039 Yeah. 01:28:49.199 --> 01:28:53.119 Because when they make that decision, that's a time critical thought. 01:28:53.520 --> 01:28:56.399 Because if something changes, that thought could change. 01:28:56.640 --> 01:28:59.199 I feel like that's where our biggest hole is in our system. 01:28:59.840 --> 01:29:16.960 I feel like I feel like so much of the problem and issue that we have in our society, again on my soapbox for a second, is that single moms don't have enough support for when and not financially. 01:29:17.119 --> 01:29:26.880 And so when we have all of these single moms, you look at statistics on single moms and domestic violence and kids that are growing up in poverty and like all of these things. 01:29:27.199 --> 01:29:28.720 I'm just going, hello. 01:29:28.960 --> 01:29:37.840 Like we know where the problems are starting, but why aren't we putting our money where our mouth is and fixing it at the why aren't we going to the leak? 01:29:38.000 --> 01:29:41.680 Why are we just like getting towels and cleaning up the water on top? 01:29:41.840 --> 01:29:43.600 Like, where's the leak in the pipe? 01:29:43.760 --> 01:29:45.439 Can we please solve that problem? 01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:49.920 Because so many people are just drowning and it's not, it's not okay. 01:29:50.079 --> 01:29:56.720 And then what happens to those kids when they grow up while they're sitting here talking to me about how they shot their mom's boyfriend? 01:29:56.800 --> 01:29:57.039 Yeah. 01:29:57.279 --> 01:29:58.960 Or how they did a

life sentence. 01:29:59.119 --> 01:30:01.439 Because what was the thing that they saw in the home? 01:30:01.600 --> 01:30:05.279 They witnessed violence, they were sexually abused. 01:30:05.760 --> 01:30:15.039 It's the same story, it seems like different characters in the story, little bits of different here and there, but that seems to be a common denominator in a lot of these stories. 01:30:15.279 --> 01:30:17.520 It's different adverse childhood experiences, absolutely. 01:30:17.680 --> 01:30:17.920 Yeah. 01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:22.000 And it's like follow the experience and what are we producing and how do we minimize this? 01:30:22.159 --> 01:30:24.399 Well, we've got a big problem with mental health for sure. 01:30:25.039 --> 01:30:28.159 And we've got so why why do we have such a problem with it? 01:30:28.319 --> 01:30:29.840 Because it's not safe to talk about. 01:30:31.680 --> 01:30:32.720 There's so much shame. 01:30:33.760 --> 01:30:40.640 Just in general with mental health, there's a lot that's not just with sexual abuse or abuse in general, it's saying you're struggling. 01:30:40.960 --> 01:30:42.159 You're supposed to have it all together. 01:30:42.399 --> 01:30:42.720 Right. 01:30:43.680 --> 01:30:46.560 And that is hurting our society, I feel like. 01:30:47.279 --> 01:30:51.760 You need to feel safe, safe to struggle, safe to say it out loud. 01:30:52.479 --> 01:30:54.960 And I think that's where you know people aren't gonna judge you on it. 01:30:55.199 --> 01:30:55.359 Right. 01:30:55.439 --> 01:30:59.199 And I think that's where you became so good at your job. 01:30:59.520 --> 01:31:02.319 It's because you know how to create that safety for people. 01:31:02.800 --> 01:31:06.640 And when you have that safety, you know who else I think is really freaking good at that? 01:31:07.039 --> 01:31:07.439 It's Greg. 01:31:08.079 --> 01:31:08.720 Longabah. 01:31:09.039 --> 01:31:09.520 Oh boy. 01:31:09.680 --> 01:31:10.159 Yeah. 01:31:10.399 --> 01:31:13.359 That man, he's coming on, guys, don't worry. 01:31:13.680 --> 01:31:24.479 I think that the reason that man gets an unusual amount of confessions from criminals is because he is so good at creating an emotionally safe environment. 01:31:24.800 --> 01:31:26.159 It's a passion behind it. 01:31:26.800 --> 01:31:27.359 For sure. 01:31:27.520 --> 01:31:27.840 Yeah. 01:31:28.079 --> 01:31:31.439 Being genuine and like people sniff out when you're being disingenuous. 01:31:31.600 --> 01:31:31.840 Totally. 01:31:32.079 --> 01:31:37.199 When you're trying to put on a fake facade and like especially kids, they sniff that stuff out real quick. 01:31:37.359 --> 01:31:38.399 And you're like, why do you care? 01:31:38.560 --> 01:31:39.119 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:31:39.359 --> 01:31:40.079 What's wrong with you? 01:31:40.319 --> 01:31:40.640 Totally. 01:31:40.800 --> 01:31:44.880 Or I've had kids like, what the hell happened to you that you want to do this all day, every day? 01:31:45.039 --> 01:31:48.239 And I'm like, I I enjoy talking to kids. 01:31:48.399 --> 01:31:49.840 Like, I'm not lying to you on that. 01:31:50.079 --> 01:31:55.600 Not gonna go through my whole stuff because we're here about you, buckaroo, but you know, kids absolutely being genuine. 01:31:55.760 --> 01:32:00.079 So if you're not emotional, uh mainly you're not an emotional person, really. 01:32:00.319 --> 01:32:02.560 I used to be very much so like that, by the way. 01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:12.239 I was, and I was the like, I was the kid that very much so don't tell me what to do. 01:32:12.479 --> 01:32:20.800 I was the I was what you called the spicy kid that would come into your room if there, if I was in there for any reason, I'd be like, I don't I remember my parents took me to counseling one time. 01:32:20.880 --> 01:32:21.039 Uh-huh. 01:32:21.199 --> 01:32:21.439 Okay. 01:32:22.000 --> 01:32:24.079 I was behavior central. 01:32:24.239 --> 01:32:27.600 Like my behavior changed from sixth grade into seventh grade, night and day. 01:32:27.760 --> 01:32:36.960 I went from being the square kid that was like holding my Bible up to kids and reading it on the bus because they were bullying another child to sneaking out, doing drugs, having sex at 13. 01:32:37.119 --> 01:32:40.159 Like I was like, not just smoking weed, I was doing ecstasy. 01:32:40.239 --> 01:32:42.159 Like I went off the deep end. 01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:42.560 Okay. 01:32:43.119 --> 01:32:46.239 And my parents are like, what is going on? 01:32:46.399 --> 01:32:48.800 And then one night I told my friend I was gonna kill myself. 01:32:48.880 --> 01:32:50.479 And so she ended up calling the police. 01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:53.840 The police came, I had to go wake my parents up, explain to them why the police was there. 01:32:54.000 --> 01:32:54.640 That sucked. 01:32:54.720 --> 01:33:00.399 And then they made them take me down to um like a you know, mental hospital for an evaluation. 01:33:00.479 --> 01:33:00.560 Yeah. 01:33:00.720 --> 01:33:04.239 Well, I had already been told by the kids at school what you had to say in order to let them make them let you go. 01:33:04.319 --> 01:33:05.439 You have to have a plan, right? 01:33:05.520 --> 01:33:06.159 Like all the things. 01:33:06.319 --> 01:33:09.840 So I knew what to say and not to say so I could leave because you are not locking me in here. 01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:11.840 Yeah, that is not going to happen. 01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:12.479 Yeah. 01:33:12.720 --> 01:33:13.439 So whatever. 01:33:13.600 --> 01:33:15.840 Well, my parents are to take me to counseling. 01:33:17.119 --> 01:33:18.319 That was cute. 01:33:18.560 --> 01:33:21.439 They drive me up to this counselor's office. 01:33:21.680 --> 01:33:24.000 And I just remember, like, they're like, okay, it's time to go in. 01:33:24.159 --> 01:33:25.680 I'm like, I am not going in there. 01:33:25.840 --> 01:33:28.079 I am not talking about feelings. 01:33:29.039 --> 01:33:29.920 What feelings?

01:33:30.079 --> 01:33:32.479 I'm not talking about feelings, you know, something happening. 01:33:32.720 --> 01:33:35.840 And so I remember my dad gets out, my dad was driving, and like he goes and gets the counselor. 01:33:35.920 --> 01:33:37.920 I'm sitting in the front seat, and they bring the counselor down. 01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:39.840 I remember like there was like a hill for some reason. 01:33:39.920 --> 01:33:44.159 I feel like there was a hill here, and they like bring her down the hill, and she's like knocking on my window trying to talk to me. 01:33:44.239 --> 01:33:45.039 And I went like this. 01:33:45.199 --> 01:33:46.159 I wouldn't even look at her. 01:33:46.319 --> 01:33:48.880 I was just like middle finger, not talking to you. 01:33:49.119 --> 01:33:50.479 You guys are wasting my time. 01:33:50.640 --> 01:33:52.479 Can we hurry up and leave already? 01:33:52.720 --> 01:33:54.479 And that was never gonna work for me. 01:33:54.560 --> 01:33:58.079 And then, like, ironically enough, I have my bachelor's in psychology, uh-huh. 01:33:58.239 --> 01:34:01.600 And I'm like all into therapy and all the things and human behavior now. 01:34:01.760 --> 01:34:02.159 Yep. 01:34:02.399 --> 01:34:04.800 But I was most definitely the hot and cold child. 01:34:04.960 --> 01:34:07.359 You were absolutely not gonna get me emotional. 01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:08.399 Absolutely not. 01:34:08.479 --> 01:34:09.760 It was not gonna happen. 01:34:10.000 --> 01:34:15.279 I hated the feeling of being vulnerable, and that's what it was about. 01:34:15.760 --> 01:34:17.199 Yes, very scary. 01:34:17.359 --> 01:34:19.039 And if I let you know how I feel. 01:34:19.279 --> 01:34:21.119 Oh, I have a question for you now. 01:34:21.359 --> 01:34:21.920 Love it. 01:34:22.079 --> 01:34:24.560 Oh I did some digging on this on myself. 01:34:24.640 --> 01:34:26.800 I'm so curious if we're like on this. 01:34:27.520 --> 01:34:28.880 Oh, okay. 01:34:31.359 --> 01:34:41.279 Do you are you a are you comfortable with letting anybody know that you are excited or disappointed about anything, or do you try to minimize those emotions too? 01:34:41.439 --> 01:34:42.560 It depends on what it is. 01:34:42.880 --> 01:34:44.640 Professionally, I don't mind. 01:34:44.800 --> 01:34:46.159 Personally, I don't like it. 01:34:46.399 --> 01:34:47.439 Girl, me too. 01:34:47.600 --> 01:34:50.399 I don't like this self-acknowledgement, like personally at all. 01:34:50.560 --> 01:34:54.079 Professionally, it's kind of like the thank you, I appreciate it. 01:34:54.159 --> 01:34:56.640 But like personally, I'm like, mmm, detour the topic. 01:34:56.720 --> 01:34:57.600 Let's move away from that. 01:34:57.760 --> 01:34:58.800 Yeah, I hate recognition. 01:34:59.359 --> 01:35:00.319 I hate recognition. 01:35:00.479 --> 01:35:00.640 Yeah. 01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:04.479 I didn't go to my own college graduation because I don't even want to walk across a stupid stage. 01:35:04.640 --> 01:35:06.000 Yeah, I went for that one for my mom. 01:35:06.159 --> 01:35:06.399 Yeah. 01:35:06.560 --> 01:35:08.000 Okay, I called my dad. 01:35:08.159 --> 01:35:11.840 I called my dad because my parents were not there at my high school graduation. 01:35:11.920 --> 01:35:12.079 Uh-huh. 01:35:12.239 --> 01:35:14.640 When I was 14, my birth mom showed up in my high school, right? 01:35:14.880 --> 01:35:17.359 And for two years, my parents tried to control a relationship. 01:35:17.439 --> 01:35:22.399 They didn't want me really talking to her, so I was only allowed to talk to her on Sundays for 15 minutes with my dad listening on the phone. 01:35:22.560 --> 01:35:34.640 So instead of actually obeying those rules, I was going to school and I was calling from the payphone, my friends' cell phones, going to places after school, calling her, calling, or calling, or eventually she got a 1800 number, so it was free to call her from the payphone at school. 01:35:34.720 --> 01:35:36.159 I was talking to her all day, every day. 01:35:36.319 --> 01:35:40.159 And then about two years into that, I snuck out one day to see her. 01:35:40.319 --> 01:35:41.119 I got caught. 01:35:41.279 --> 01:35:49.359 And so when I got caught, my dad said, if you'll just be honest with me and tell me where you were and who you were with, I won't throw anybody in jail. 01:35:49.439 --> 01:35:50.319 I won't take away your phone. 01:35:50.479 --> 01:35:51.359 I won't take away your car. 01:35:51.520 --> 01:35:52.239 So I was honest. 01:35:52.319 --> 01:35:54.399 I told him, and that was all not true. 01:35:54.720 --> 01:35:58.479 Took away my phone, took away my car, threatened to put my friend that drove me in jail. 01:35:58.560 --> 01:36:01.840 And then next thing you know, he's trying to put a restraining order against my birth mom. 01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:02.159 Uh-huh. 01:36:02.319 --> 01:36:05.439 So when I found out about the restraining order, she could answer the phone because they had already filed. 01:36:05.520 --> 01:36:06.319 So I was trying to call her. 01:36:06.399 --> 01:36:06.960 She wasn't answering. 01:36:07.039 --> 01:36:07.760 I called my grandma. 01:36:07.840 --> 01:36:10.800 She's the one that told me, like, oh, you don't know, don't know what. 01:36:10.880 --> 01:36:11.920 They filed a restraining order. 01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:12.720 She can't answer the phone. 01:36:12.880 --> 01:36:15.439 And I'm like, absolutely not. 01:36:15.680 --> 01:36:18.000 And so you know the court system. 01:36:18.079 --> 01:36:21.600 And what I'm about to say is gonna have every red flag in you go off. 01:36:21.680 --> 01:36:25.920 But I swear to God, I have proof to back it up, and it's the craziest thing ever. 01:36:26.159 --> 01:36:30.319 Um, I hired my own attorney who was actually just a public defender. 01:36:30.399 --> 01:36:36.159 So it really didn't involve any hiring, but like I went down to the courthouse and I was like, I need an attorney, and they're like, second floor. 01:36:36.239 -->

01:36:38.159 So I went up there as public defender's office. 01:36:38.399 --> 01:36:41.359 They see how many the little green paper, fill out your stuff, your income, your charges. 01:36:41.439 --> 01:36:42.479 I'm like, I'm never arrested. 01:36:42.560 --> 01:36:43.359 I don't know what the hell this is. 01:36:43.520 --> 01:36:44.319 Go give it back to them. 01:36:44.399 --> 01:36:45.760 They're like, let me go get my boss. 01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:53.279 Guy comes in, I sit down, I'm telling him everything that's going on, and I'm like, listen, I am willing to throw my parents under the bus for whatever the heck I have to. 01:36:53.520 --> 01:36:58.079 Like, I I yeah, you cannot like leave me without help here. 01:36:58.159 --> 01:36:58.479 Uh-huh. 01:36:58.800 --> 01:37:06.399 And um, so the uh the guy was like, Okay, you know, this is a new attorney in our office, she will help you. 01:37:06.560 --> 01:37:10.239 But the rule is like your parents can't know that you're doing any of this. 01:37:10.319 --> 01:37:11.520 And I'm like, okay, Don. 01:37:11.920 --> 01:37:16.079 And so for a month, my parents had no clue I even knew that we had a court date coming up. 01:37:16.239 --> 01:37:21.520 And then court sh court came and um the judge gave custody to my birth mother when I was six. 01:37:21.760 --> 01:37:22.079 Oh wow. 01:37:22.640 --> 01:37:24.319 Yeah, it was wild. 01:37:24.560 --> 01:37:30.000 So I moved in with my birth mom at 16, and I went no contact with my with my parents and I had to talk to them. 01:37:30.159 --> 01:37:33.600 Well, in that year, I graduated and I did not invite them to my graduation. 01:37:33.760 --> 01:37:38.399 And education was very important, especially to my dad. 01:37:38.479 --> 01:37:38.720 Uh-huh. 01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:43.119 My mom always told me, she was like, education is the one thing that nobody can ever take away from you, you know. 01:37:43.279 --> 01:37:48.159 But my dad was always like, Go, Christina, like, big into any of my accomplishments. 01:37:48.319 --> 01:37:51.039 He took those on as his own accomplishments, right? 01:37:51.199 --> 01:37:57.600 So when I graduated college, I called him and I was like, I will fly, because I graduated from a college in Virginia. 01:37:57.680 --> 01:37:59.039 I will fly to Virginia. 01:37:59.199 --> 01:38:00.720 I will fly you to Virginia with me. 01:38:00.880 --> 01:38:01.439 Like, we can go. 01:38:01.600 --> 01:38:03.840 My dad's like, you don't have to do that for me. 01:38:03.920 --> 01:38:06.239 Oh, I'm just happy that you did it for you. 01:38:06.399 --> 01:38:07.520 Like, I don't have to go. 01:38:07.600 --> 01:38:08.960 If you don't want to go, I don't want to go. 01:38:09.119 --> 01:38:10.640 But I hate recognition. 01:38:10.800 --> 01:38:12.159 I don't like awards. 01:38:12.560 --> 01:38:16.239 I understand that sometimes it comes with the job and it's just kind of like, oh yeah, thanks. 01:38:16.319 --> 01:38:17.359 Okay, can I get off stage now? 01:38:17.520 --> 01:38:17.760 Thank you. 01:38:17.920 --> 01:38:23.199 And it was funny because growing up, my dad put me through voice lessons from a very young age. 01:38:23.760 --> 01:38:26.880 So I was always forced to perform constantly. 01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:30.079 And then as soon as I was adult, I'm like, nope, I'm out. 01:38:30.319 --> 01:38:31.600 I have a background character. 01:38:31.760 --> 01:38:33.119 I don't want to be on stage. 01:38:33.199 --> 01:38:34.399 I hate that feeling. 01:38:34.560 --> 01:38:37.199 So it's funny because you also don't like recognition. 01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:43.840 And but I've got a big personality and I will always wear like colorful clothes or stuff that like catches your attention. 01:38:44.000 --> 01:38:45.760 And then it's like, oh hide in the background, I'm good. 01:38:45.920 --> 01:38:46.640 Dude, that's me. 01:38:46.800 --> 01:38:48.079 Like, that's me. 01:38:48.159 --> 01:38:50.319 How do you what do you do when you go to a party? 01:38:50.960 --> 01:38:51.840 Um, it depends. 01:38:51.920 --> 01:38:53.760 If I know people, like social butterfly. 01:38:53.840 --> 01:38:54.000 Yeah. 01:38:54.079 --> 01:38:56.479 If I don't know people, I want to sit in the back and I want to watch everybody. 01:38:56.640 --> 01:38:56.880 Yeah. 01:38:57.039 --> 01:38:59.920 I want to get to know like who's I I want to start learning. 01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:01.039 Like, who do you like? 01:39:01.199 --> 01:39:01.920 Who do you not like? 01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:03.359 What are the interactions? 01:39:03.600 --> 01:39:04.960 What's what's the vibe here? 01:39:05.119 --> 01:39:05.760 Bro, that's me. 01:39:06.239 --> 01:39:08.560 I want to know that before I go engage in conversations. 01:39:08.720 --> 01:39:10.000 That is a hundred percent. 01:39:10.560 --> 01:39:11.359 That's wild. 01:39:11.520 --> 01:39:12.399 That's exactly what I do. 01:39:12.800 --> 01:39:15.119 Or I'm really bad, like RBF while I sit there and do it. 01:39:15.199 --> 01:39:17.359 So then I'm I look very unapproachable. 01:39:17.520 --> 01:39:17.760 Right. 01:39:18.079 --> 01:39:19.760 So that's a poor girl. 01:39:19.920 --> 01:39:20.479 She's very brutal. 01:39:20.640 --> 01:39:23.600 But like people all the time are like, you just look mad or like you look like you're busy. 01:39:23.680 --> 01:39:26.079 I'm like, no, this is I'm sorry, this is my interested face. 01:39:26.239 --> 01:39:28.560 Like I'm studying humans right now. 01:39:28.800 --> 01:39:29.039 Yeah. 01:39:29.199 --> 01:39:30.079 Yeah, I can't help it. 01:39:30.159 --> 01:39:31.199 That's exactly what I do. 01:39:31.439 --> 01:39:33.600 Or I'll just like scroll my phone. 01:39:33.680 --> 01:39:34.880 Like those are the two things. 01:39:35.119 --> 01:39:37.279 But I'm listening to everything while I'm scrolling. 01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:38.399 Yes. 01:39:38.800 --> 01:39:39.119 Okay. 01:39:39.920 --> 01:39:48.399 So fascinating because on that exact point of, especially when I was

a kid, I wonder if you did this when your dad passed away. 01:39:48.479 --> 01:39:52.399 Because this is absolutely how I acted when all of that shit was going on with me. 01:39:53.600 --> 01:39:54.880 Nothing would bother me. 01:39:55.039 --> 01:39:55.760 I'm fine. 01:39:56.000 --> 01:39:56.880 I'm totally fine. 01:39:56.960 --> 01:39:59.840 Like you're not gonna know if something really gets to me. 01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:01.760 I'm not gonna let you have that power over me. 01:40:01.840 --> 01:40:03.199 I'm not gonna let you see me cry. 01:40:03.359 --> 01:40:04.960 I'm not gonna let you see that you got me. 01:40:05.279 --> 01:40:07.279 Everything to me is just like, oh, it's not a big deal. 01:40:07.359 --> 01:40:15.439 And that carried over into my adult life when I got cheated on or when there was something super chaotic going on in my life. 01:40:15.600 --> 01:40:17.039 I was always the one that could handle it. 01:40:17.119 --> 01:40:17.920 Christina can handle it. 01:40:18.000 --> 01:40:18.800 Christina can handle it. 01:40:19.039 --> 01:40:19.920 Was that you? 01:40:20.319 --> 01:40:24.000 Um, so more so now as an old adult than as a teenager. 01:40:24.159 --> 01:40:28.239 Because as a teenager, it's like I could handle what I could handle, but I wasn't around in certain things. 01:40:28.399 --> 01:40:36.239 I was so busy with sports still and school and my younger brother and like my mom's, like there's a lot still going on now as an adult. 01:40:36.399 --> 01:40:37.920 I don't like telling people no. 01:40:38.079 --> 01:40:39.840 Like, if you're like, hey, could you do this for me? 01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:40.800 Absolutely. 01:40:41.039 --> 01:40:43.680 And then I'm over here, like in my head, I'm like, how are you gonna get this all done? 01:40:43.920 --> 01:40:45.359 Like, no, I'll get it done, not a big deal. 01:40:45.520 --> 01:40:46.000 Why? 01:40:46.399 --> 01:40:46.800 How come? 01:40:46.880 --> 01:40:48.560 I don't have it, I'm gonna get good at that. 01:40:48.880 --> 01:40:49.680 How come? 01:40:50.319 --> 01:40:56.720 I strive to be somebody who's dependable for others, and like I've in my brain, I'm like, if I tell you no, that makes me not dependable. 01:40:56.960 --> 01:40:57.359 Ooh. 01:40:58.079 --> 01:41:00.000 What is it about the dependability for you? 01:41:00.239 --> 01:41:01.199 It's consistency. 01:41:01.279 --> 01:41:04.479 It's knowing like if I ask you to do something, you're gonna be able to get it done, you're gonna do it. 01:41:04.560 --> 01:41:05.680 I don't have to remind you about it. 01:41:05.760 --> 01:41:07.359 I don't have to follow up with you about it. 01:41:07.520 --> 01:41:10.880 It's I've asked you one time and I I I trust I know you're gonna get it done. 01:41:11.439 --> 01:41:13.359 Who is the dependable one for you growing up? 01:41:14.560 --> 01:41:15.119 My mom. 01:41:15.840 --> 01:41:16.880 And she's still there today. 01:41:18.319 --> 01:41:19.119 That's amazing. 01:41:19.279 --> 01:41:19.520 Yep. 01:41:20.319 --> 01:41:21.760 Even now she'll like call me randomly. 01:41:21.840 --> 01:41:23.920 She's like, hey, I got your kids this, X, Y, and Z at the store. 01:41:24.000 --> 01:41:24.960 And I'm like, oh thanks. 01:41:25.039 --> 01:41:25.840 I didn't think about it. 01:41:26.159 --> 01:41:27.439 And she's the dependable one anytime. 01:41:27.520 --> 01:41:28.079 I call for childcare. 01:41:28.159 --> 01:41:29.039 I'm like, hey, could you do this? 01:41:29.119 --> 01:41:30.079 She goes, absolutely bring them. 01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:31.840 Do you send your kids a daycare? 01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:32.560 Yes. 01:41:35.920 --> 01:41:37.279 They all know what I do. 01:41:38.239 --> 01:41:41.039 Um, so I would make sure they were dude. 01:41:41.199 --> 01:41:43.279 I'd be like, hey, by the way, do you know what I do for a living? 01:41:43.520 --> 01:41:52.560 So before I've had them on a different daycare, I ended up switching to a new daycare just for um it was less expensive, but also like a little bit more amenities for the kids. 01:41:52.720 --> 01:41:57.359 With my five-year-old is very, very advanced, like developmentally. 01:41:57.600 --> 01:41:59.520 She is a rock star. 01:41:59.760 --> 01:42:05.359 Digging through the DFPS website for all the daycares, I'm reading through every single citation that you've ever gotten, every single report you've ever gotten. 01:42:05.600 --> 01:42:06.239 Of course you are. 01:42:06.479 --> 01:42:15.119 Um, like that's what I'm reading through to know, like, okay, is it little, is it small minor things, or is it that the kid fell out of a high tier, or is it that a kid was left alone on the playground? 01:42:15.359 --> 01:42:17.439 Like, we're gonna dig through those things. 01:42:17.520 --> 01:42:21.039 If it's like, oh, there was a spoon on the floor when you walked into a room. 01:42:21.279 --> 01:42:22.640 Okay, maybe that dropped. 01:42:22.880 --> 01:42:24.239 Not a big deal. 01:42:24.960 --> 01:42:31.279 But also with my three-year-olds learning it, almost five-year-old, I interview her every day when she gets home from school. 01:42:31.520 --> 01:42:32.720 Tell me about this, tell me about that. 01:42:32.960 --> 01:42:35.039 Like, tell me about your teachers, tell me about your day. 01:42:35.199 --> 01:42:39.279 And so, like when she goes to bed at night, before she goes to bed, she goes, Can I tell you about my day already? 01:42:39.359 --> 01:42:55.600 I'm like, Yeah, she goes, So I got there, I ate breakfast, she goes through her entire event narrative of her day to the point where she tells me what kids got in trouble, how what they did to get in trouble, what the teachers' reactions were, when the teachers left during the day, who took her to the bathroom, who she sat by, who she took her nap by. 01:42:55.680 --> 01:42:57.439 Like, she is giving me a play-by-play. 01:42:57.600 --> 01:43:02.239 And then I'm raising a little nosy girl because she tells me about her brother's day

and her sister's day. 01:43:02.319 --> 01:43:04.560 Oh no! Because she's like, I'm checking in on them throughout the day. 01:43:04.720 --> 01:43:12.960 Like, if I walk by their room, she'll open their room to check on my baby, or she'll walk by the room to open, to check on how my son's doing to make sure he's not having a bad day. 01:43:13.199 --> 01:43:17.119 Or like if they're playing outside together, my two older ones, like, how's your day, Bubba? 01:43:17.359 --> 01:43:21.520 And she's talking with him to make sure and go ask the teachers, is he behaving today? 01:43:22.079 --> 01:43:22.560 Wow. 01:43:22.880 --> 01:43:24.079 She's my little interviewer. 01:43:24.560 --> 01:43:24.880 Wow. 01:43:25.039 --> 01:43:29.680 And that's interesting because you were the sibling that took care of everybody, and here your daughter is doing the same. 01:43:30.800 --> 01:43:38.239 And it sounds like the hypervigilance is there too, but this has been curated in a very different way than it was with you. 01:43:38.560 --> 01:43:39.600 It's fascinating. 01:43:39.760 --> 01:43:40.000 Yeah. 01:43:40.239 --> 01:43:40.960 Pretty cool. 01:43:41.199 --> 01:43:47.279 I know we're gonna butt heads if she becomes a teenager of like, mom, stop asking me questions, but you know, if I still early, she can't get mad at me. 01:43:47.359 --> 01:43:48.319 I've always done this. 01:43:48.560 --> 01:43:49.600 Well, you know, it's funny. 01:43:49.680 --> 01:43:51.279 My my husband actually said something the other day. 01:43:51.359 --> 01:43:56.880 We were talking about, you know, being the kid where the grandparent was like asking all the annoying questions. 01:43:57.920 --> 01:44:11.359 And I'm curious for you because if you are a non-emotional person, how is it that you are you able to take yourself from the superficial how was your day questions into the deeper emotional stuff with your children? 01:44:11.680 --> 01:44:11.920 Yes. 01:44:12.079 --> 01:44:14.960 So like I'll typically ask them, like, hey, tell me about your day. 01:44:15.199 --> 01:44:18.960 And then they'll tell me, like, oh, I got in trouble or I did this, or X, Y, and Z happen. 01:44:19.039 --> 01:44:21.039 I'm like, hey, talk to you about it how come you got in trouble? 01:44:21.199 --> 01:44:24.960 What and so I like to do that one-on-one with them, like before they go to bed. 01:44:25.039 --> 01:44:32.079 So that way it's not chiming in of like, I don't want to hear about Bubba's day from my oldest, I don't want to hear about my oldest day from my youngest or my middle. 01:44:32.399 --> 01:44:37.680 I want them to be able to use their words to tell me about it so I get their emotions behind it, but then we can problem solve. 01:44:37.840 --> 01:44:40.319 Like, hey, like my oldest is so excited. 01:44:40.479 --> 01:44:46.239 She has new friends that just started her class, and we've been talking through inclusion and making sure like you're inviting people to play with you. 01:44:46.319 --> 01:44:52.239 And she was so proud of herself when she came home yesterday that she got a play in her centers with one of these kids. 01:44:52.479 --> 01:44:55.439 And I was like, you know, just makes your mama heart happy. 01:44:55.680 --> 01:44:58.479 Like, like, that's the stuff that I want to teach my kids. 01:44:58.640 --> 01:45:01.760 Like the innocence behind, like, they're just so excited to be a new friend. 01:45:01.920 --> 01:45:03.279 Well, thank you so much for being here today. 01:45:03.840 --> 01:45:04.479 Thank you for having me. 01:45:04.640 --> 01:45:05.520 This has been wonderful. 01:45:05.680 --> 01:45:06.319 I was so excited. 01:45:06.399 --> 01:45:07.920 Like, I told you I couldn't sleep last night. 01:45:08.000 --> 01:45:13.760 I was so excited about doing this interview, and you did such a great job being the interviewed instead of the interviewer. 01:45:14.079 --> 01:45:16.880 It's hard to sit here and not be like, oh, yeah, I can ask you that question too. 01:45:17.039 --> 01:45:19.600 But I mean, go for it. 01:45:19.680 --> 01:45:21.359 I think it's interesting, honestly. 01:45:21.520 --> 01:45:25.359 I would I would love to continue this conversation and even bring you back some other time. 01:45:25.439 --> 01:45:28.800 I think it'd be really, really interesting to see what kind of comments and stuff that we get. 01:45:29.039 --> 01:45:29.520 I'd love to. 01:45:29.680 --> 01:45:38.399 Anytime questions from parents, I'm sure they'll have a ton of questions on how they can, you know, better protect their children without it being coming control, right? 01:45:38.800 --> 01:45:40.399 So thanks so much for being here. 01:45:40.560 --> 01:45:42.239 We will catch you guys next time.