บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Money Talks: Inside the New Wave of Social Video Investment

00:06:12.269 But we don't take control. 00:06:12.430 --> 00:06:14.509 We're here to help them create and be creative. 00:06:15.230 --> 00:06:15.790 Thanks. 00:06:16.110 --> 00:06:20.670 I'm Claire, and um I lead on creative partnerships for a company called Electrify. 00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:25.230 I joined earlier this year after uh nearly a decade at YouTube. 00:06:25.790 --> 00:06:36.029 And uh Electrify is a next-gen media company, and we uh own and operate some of the world's leading digital content edutainment uh businesses. 00:06:36.269 --> 00:06:56.509 So many of these are YouTube first businesses, the kind of world leading science channel that is Veritassium, the world leading documentary channel that is Vern, the world leading, um, you're no missing a theme here, uh coding channel that is FireShip, but we also look at other IP generating businesses uh in podcasting, in courses, in in newsletters. 00:06:56.750 --> 00:07:06.910 And um, as an owner operator, we invest in those businesses, much like Lunar X, we buy between 50 and 100% of those businesses and we operate them as joint ventures. 00:07:07.069 --> 00:07:32.750 So we're deploying all of our firepower to help double down on their existing content operations, do more of, you know, let founders do more of what they love, do it better, more efficiently, and then also build out a flywheel around um that initial sort of content operation so that, you know, we're moving towards like a really diversified global brand that I ideally can exist beyond the uh original founder. 00:07:33.149 --> 00:07:33.389 Great. 00:07:33.470 --> 00:07:36.750 And for those of you who don't know me, uh I'm Daniel Winner. 00:07:36.829 --> 00:07:48.110 I'm an operator working with uh Media and Digital Businesses to help them unlock transformative growth by helping them realize the untapped value in their IP audience relationships and creative assets. 00:07:48.750 --> 00:07:50.029 Okay, so let's dive in. 00:07:50.509 --> 00:07:53.470 So, I mean, YouTube has been around 20 years. 00:07:53.709 --> 00:07:56.430 Investing in this space has been happening for a long time. 00:07:56.589 --> 00:08:01.550 Those of you who are so long in the tooth will remember the MCN investment boom 10 years ago. 00:08:01.949 --> 00:08:07.069 So, why is investor interest in social video surging now? 00:08:07.389 --> 00:08:13.870 What's changed, particularly in the last 18 months, that makes this space more investable than before? 00:08:14.189 --> 00:08:15.709 Jason, should we start with you? 00:08:16.029 --> 00:08:16.750 What's going on? 00:08:16.829 --> 00:08:20.189 Is this about predictability of cash flows? 00:08:20.910 --> 00:08:23.790 Um, yeah, I think it's definitely last 12, 18 months. 00:08:23.870 --> 00:08:31.709 I mean, when I first started a long time ago, and it was a long time ago, it was all about vanity, um, virility, you know, something type of excitement, hype. 00:08:31.870 --> 00:08:34.509 How can we invest in someone because they're exciting? 00:08:34.589 --> 00:08:36.990 And probably, to be honest, they've seen them on TV. 00:08:37.230 --> 00:08:41.230 Now, institutional investors are coming in now because they understand it's measurable. 00:08:41.389 --> 00:08:45.230 Um, they're looking at creators now as mini businesses, media businesses. 00:08:45.470 --> 00:08:54.110 They, you know, AdSense is something that's pretty stable in the grand scheme of things, especially if you look at markets um over the last 12, 18, 24 months or even further. 00:08:54.269 --> 00:08:59.230 Um, it's a real opportunity for people to invest in a business now, and they see it as a business. 00:08:59.309 --> 00:09:00.910 And I think that's where it's really gone. 00:09:00.990 --> 00:09:16.430 And that's why institutional investments are coming in now, and that's why people like Viewcha, ourselves, of our investors, um, we have private equity, um, just recently come up with a new funding uh line, over nine figures available to us now, and it potentially even more if the right deal comes along. 00:09:16.509 --> 00:09:28.589 And that's all down to the fact that they can see data and analytics, long-term revenue, and all the elements that you would want to see from a financial institution in traditional, I say, bricks and mortar purchase or traditional publisher purchase. 00:09:28.750 --> 00:09:30.829 They can, you know, it's an opportunity and they can see it. 00:09:31.149 --> 00:09:43.309 So, Claire, you're interested not just in AdSense revenues, but how you can take the IP into a in build it to a franchise so it's got diversified revenue streams. 00:09:43.710 --> 00:09:57.149 Are there are you now seeing a lot more case studies, proof points that shows how you can do that and evidence that if you take an IP with a certain profile, you can make it significantly bigger? 00:09:58.029 --> 00:09:59.710 A lot of case studies. 00:09:59.870 --> 00:10:06.190 I I mean, I think there's a huge certainly our like investment thesis is that's something that we can do with founders. 00:10:06.269 --> 00:10:10.590 And I think there's a few examples of of where that's that's working successfully. 00:10:10.830 --> 00:10:31.629 You know, I think that the promise of owning an audience is something that we're really excited about and sort of more like direct-to-fan opportunities, and so like we're seeing how creators are operating uh a YouTube channel and a Patreon successfully or a YouTube plus Substack successfully, and we're definitely following that thread. 00:10:32.110 --> 00:10:32.509 Great. 00:10:32.669 --> 00:10:37.629 And Indy, how should we think about some of the exits that have already happened in this space? 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:40.269 I mean, there have been some big exits over the last few years. 00:10:40.429 --> 00:10:46.190 Is that building confidence that institutional investors are going to get an attractive rate of return? 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.190 And what exits have really

helped to kind of shift the market? 00:10:50.509 --> 00:10:51.870 I think it's a great question. 00:10:52.029 --> 00:11:03.230 And the most applicable example I would say is probably Moonberg, my my previous company, uh, which did end up selling over to one of the largest private equity companies in the world, which gives it profile. 00:11:03.389 --> 00:11:09.070 It gives the space the kind of credibility that a lot of investors just haven't had for so long. 00:11:09.309 --> 00:11:20.669 I think building on Jason's point around the fact that there is now proven cash flow ability for these businesses, not just from one business line, but from a number of different business lines. 00:11:20.830 --> 00:11:30.990 And if you think about the case of Moonberg, when we were originally investing in YouTube channels, they were generating pretty much over 90% of their revenues purely from YouTube AdSense. 00:11:31.230 --> 00:11:42.190 But at the time that the business was sold, three years later, over half of their revenue was coming from off YouTube sources, uh, with a lot of that being consumer products uh being one of the largest revenue streams. 00:11:42.350 --> 00:11:49.470 So just to kind of tie it all back together, it shows that the exits definitely have given the space a lot of credibility. 00:11:49.629 --> 00:12:11.789 And it's proven that these businesses can generate return for investors if they're operated well, and if the investments are done with data in mind and and the flywheel in mind on how to build a franchise, and so that there very much is a possibility for investors to make a return on capital in what is a very highly dynamic investing environment. 00:12:12.269 --> 00:12:22.269 And I guess you're seeing that play out in terms of a different type of investor coming into the space and more more investors per se coming into the space. 00:12:22.350 --> 00:12:23.470 So it is an exciting moment. 00:12:23.549 --> 00:12:30.669 Look, I want to dive into next what is the model you're applying to invest in a space. 00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:41.389 So I want to get a sense of what kind of profile of business you want to bag, what are the signals you look at that a create or social video business is investable? 00:12:41.710 --> 00:12:48.350 And then maybe we can just dive into you know what what size of check are you typically you're typically writing? 00:12:48.429 --> 00:12:51.389 And how do you figure out how much you're willing to pay? 00:12:51.549 --> 00:12:52.990 Claire, why don't you start with that much? 00:12:53.230 --> 00:12:53.710 Oh my gosh. 00:12:53.789 --> 00:12:54.110 Okay. 00:12:54.429 --> 00:13:02.269 So we're looking to work with founders who understand that they need a sophisticated operator to get to the next level. 00:13:02.509 --> 00:13:10.750 So uh we are looking to work with founders who are operating, you know, successful, profitable businesses. 00:13:10.990 --> 00:13:23.870 And I think there's a level of uh expansive thinking

to what that profitability kind of floor looks like, but um I think we can pitch it sort of around the seven-figure level would be ideal. 00:13:24.110 --> 00:13:33.070 We are looking to work with the generators of IP that is high quality, but also evergreen. 00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:44.669 So um there's a level of predictability of future revenues that's brand safe, which is why we love the kind of edutainment or we're in a sort of telefavoring room, factual, um, for want of a better word. 00:13:44.830 --> 00:13:49.950 So uh, you know, there's there's a promise of that content having utility into the future. 00:13:50.269 --> 00:13:54.830 We are excited about businesses that have clear headroom. 00:13:54.990 --> 00:13:57.870 So, you know, that's both in their existing content operations. 00:13:57.950 --> 00:14:11.870 We can see how we could uh generate greater um, I'm gonna use the word efficiency, but I don't mean stripping out in any sense is like, you know, we can streamline, we can um improve, we can uh create more, pulling the various levers that we know how to pull. 00:14:11.950 --> 00:14:17.470 But then also there's lots of headroom in terms of, you know, what's what's yet to be done, and we're excited about a vision together. 00:14:17.549 --> 00:14:19.070 We see the future in the same way. 00:14:19.230 --> 00:14:23.070 Um, and then a huge part of it is audience engagement. 00:14:23.230 --> 00:14:32.590 And, you know, I think historically there was a like a correlation between what we viewed as a successful, particularly YouTube business and the number of subscribers. 00:14:32.669 --> 00:14:48.110 And I think we operate now much more in like a 1,000 true fans model where we just want to see that there's like a really dedicated group of audience members, fans that are potentially portable to sort of different ways that the business might um evolve. 00:14:48.269 --> 00:14:53.470 In terms of size of check, I'm gonna swerve that slightly just to say like there's no ceiling. 00:14:54.269 --> 00:14:55.950 And how do you value these businesses? 00:14:56.029 --> 00:15:03.070 Is it based on it we value based on uh yeah, we apply a multiple to previous years of it done, then we factor in. 00:15:03.230 --> 00:15:06.909 I don't love to give a range, but Indy and I will probably give the same one. 00:15:07.070 --> 00:15:19.789 Like, you know, there's outliers on either side, roughly, roughly, extremely roughly, like between sort of three and six, and then um I've seen multiple so outliers on either side, and then three or six on revenue or profit. 00:15:20.110 --> 00:15:20.590 On profit. 00:15:20.750 --> 00:15:21.230 On profit. 00:15:21.309 --> 00:15:21.549 Yeah. 00:15:21.789 --> 00:15:30.750 And um, we are looking at the the growth rate as well, would be a really important factor in terms of then how we would where the multiple would sit within that. 00:15:30.990 --> 00:15:31.149 Yeah. 00:15:31.230 --> 00:15:33.470 And indeed, you've got a somewhat similar model. 00:15:33.549 --> 00:15:39.230 How would you characterize the differences between your approach and uh electrifying Claire's approach? 00:15:39.549 --> 00:15:52.990 I think Claire touched upon a number of the key metrics that we would also look at uh when when it comes to kind of first of all finding a suitable business that we would want to invest in, but then also going about track tracking all of the different KPIs. 00:15:53.309 --> 00:16:31.389 Um the way that we all segmented, which is very analogous, is having you know the financial KPIs, which are obviously underwriting a number of the actual return on investment that we're trying to create. 00:16:31.629 --> 00:16:33.310 But that's always a step further. 00:16:33.389 --> 00:16:36.670 We're also already always thinking about what's ahead of that. 00:16:36.910 --> 00:16:46.830 Actually, we want to be able to have an asset and a channel with and a brand that we know has high quality, that has potential to you know embark on this flywheel. 00:16:46.990 --> 00:16:58.830 So we have the financial KPIs, we also have the kind of operational KPIs, which is very much focused on, you know, your YouTube metrics, watch time development, viewership development, as well as monetization metrics. 00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:04.910 And as Claire kind of talked about the the 1000 superfans, the engagement is really, really key. 00:17:05.149 --> 00:17:12.509 Making sure you have good engagement with your audience is really how you're going to be able to tap into those additional, additional monetization streams. 00:17:12.829 --> 00:17:27.950 And then last but not least, you also have what I like to call the kind of miscellaneous um metrics that we look at, which would be things like key person risk, uh production scalability, and being able to manage those as well, uh, in addition to the actual content that you're looking at investing. 00:17:28.029 --> 00:17:30.109 So it's very analogous to to the electricity. 00:17:30.190 --> 00:17:42.589 And just to pick up on a couple of points there, so when you think about emotional connection and resonance of the content, I mean that feels like it's an important driver when you think about investment. 00:17:42.830 --> 00:17:44.350 How do you actually measure that? 00:17:46.029 --> 00:17:47.790 Emotional resonance. 00:17:48.029 --> 00:17:53.069 I'd love to say that we have like a metric and we figured out how to kind of quantify that. 00:17:53.230 --> 00:17:56.589 No, look, there's a secret sauce in, you know, to content. 00:17:56.750 --> 00:18:09.230 So I think part of it is, I mean, we do look at comments, and there's been many instances in which we've done comment analysis to try to sort of situate the the uh audience's relationship to the founder. 00:18:09.549 --> 00:18:22.910 But I think there's also an element of I don't want to say it's gut, but there's that feeling when something just really excites you is also a feeling that we pay close attention to,

which I'm sure that the analysts on the team wouldn't ever want me to admit to. 00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:24.990 But does that resonate at all with you? 00:18:25.069 --> 00:18:26.109 There's got to be a gut check. 00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:26.990 There's gotta be that thing of it. 00:18:28.029 --> 00:18:37.790 But maybe in the future, the potential to create a new metric to help people really underload what the emotional connection your IP is driving. 00:18:38.109 --> 00:18:40.029 I'll take that back to our data science student. 00:18:40.509 --> 00:18:43.870 So Jason, so your model's slightly different. 00:18:44.269 --> 00:18:52.670 So do you see yourself making a large volume of bets or a small number of kind of more conviction-based plays? 00:18:53.390 --> 00:18:54.190 It is different. 00:18:54.430 --> 00:18:58.910 We don't generally, very rarely, in fact, take IP or anything like that. 00:18:58.990 --> 00:19:00.750 So we don't have to take any ownership of the business. 00:19:00.910 --> 00:19:09.630 So ours is all about, like I say, powering a creator, you need some money, you want to drive and build your business, here it is, um, and then base it on um measurable analytics. 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:20.990 Um to answer your question, there is no actual answer that's gonna make you happy, I don't think, because essentially it's we have a large fund, we have the ability, we have access to a lot of money. 00:19:21.150 --> 00:19:27.069 It could be small amounts or large amounts, and it can be it's really about what's out there and what's coming to us. 00:19:27.230 --> 00:19:31.069 And then we have, and I'm sure if you've seen me for 20 odd minutes, you'd be glad to hear this. 00:19:31.150 --> 00:19:37.230 There's some intelligent people in that business too, and um, they're running the data analytics side of things, and they'll look at it with dispassionately. 00:19:37.390 --> 00:19:39.470 They look at this, what are these businesses doing? 00:19:39.630 --> 00:19:41.950 Is there an opportunity to to help them grow? 00:19:42.110 --> 00:19:44.430 Is there an opportunity to receive the on the downside? 00:19:44.589 --> 00:19:50.110 Can we can, you know, is there measurable analytics here that give us a non-emotional response to be able to lend into them? 00:19:50.269 --> 00:19:55.309 So we could be lending anything up to you know 50, 100 million, or we could lend 100,000. 00:19:55.390 --> 00:19:58.670 Um, and it could be multiple, but we don't operate on a spray and prey, you know. 00:19:58.910 --> 00:20:00.350 And how are you finding these targets? 00:20:00.509 --> 00:20:02.110 Is it inbound, outbound? 00:20:02.269 --> 00:20:05.150 I mean, are you proactively going after them or are they coming to you? 00:20:05.390 --> 00:20:06.990 Um we get a lot of inbound. 00:20:07.150 --> 00:20:11.789 Some of them are quite interesting, some of them have like three followers and what I know lend a million pounds, which is interesting. 00:20:12.029 --> 00:20:14.110 Uh uh, some of them aren't. 00:20:14.269 --> 00:20:16.029 But we we have a lot of them incoming. 00:20:16.110 --> 00:20:19.630 We go out to market just in LA recently, had a whirlwind trip over there. 00:20:19.870 --> 00:20:26.190 Again, just catch up with people, a lot of front-of-mind conversations, a lot of events, a lot of conferences, probably very similar to these guys. 00:20:26.269 --> 00:20:31.710 A lot of it's word of mouth, and a lot of it is, you know, we have a connect ability on our website, so people do that as well. 00:20:31.870 --> 00:20:35.150 People interact with our social media DMs and everything else in between. 00:20:35.390 --> 00:20:47.309 But generally speaking, I would say if you dialed it down, it'd be like a sort of 60-40 in favour of incoming people coming to us, and the rest of it is just conversations, and you know, hopefully somebody might come up to me after this and want to do a deal. 00:20:47.470 --> 00:20:49.069 But it that type of conversation. 00:20:49.230 --> 00:20:50.670 I think personality is important. 00:20:50.829 --> 00:21:05.230 I think you can look at our business and you can see, I think it's a very financial, fiscal business, and they're probably quite boring and not you know, but actually, you know, if you get in front of people and talk to people and understand what they're all about, we're born from a creator. 00:21:05.630 --> 00:21:10.190 Josh, Josh was um one of the founders and is on our board still, one of the slogo. 00:21:10.430 --> 00:21:12.829 So we're creator and our DNA, so we understand that. 00:21:12.910 --> 00:21:23.230 So if we can have that conversation, we can work with them, and with our noodle funding line, we have a very flexible opportunity to work across multiple different ways to fund someone, which isn't just down to ad sense anymore. 00:21:23.309 --> 00:21:26.990 You know, it to answer your question in a very long way, unfortunately for you, sorry. 00:21:27.069 --> 00:21:32.430 It could be small, it could be large, but at the end of the day, it's about meeting the right people, having those conversations and seeing whether we can help them in power. 00:21:33.069 --> 00:21:36.110 So, what what does the model look like post-investment? 00:21:36.269 --> 00:21:44.110 So a lot of these creators, they're they're they're start off with small businesses, they're they're personality-led. 00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:54.670 These are operations that have thrived based on the the creative brilliance of a one or a small number of people. 00:21:55.309 --> 00:22:03.549 How do you work with these sort of owner managers to ensure that what's made them special remains after investment? 00:22:03.870 --> 00:22:11.710 Uh what are you providing to them to help them realize the potential of what they're what they're offering to audiences? 00:22:12.350 --> 00:22:12.589 For me. 00:22:12.910 --> 00:22:14.190 Indy, why don't you go first? 00:22:14.430 --> 00:22:14.670 Sure. 00:22:14.910 --> 00:22:19.390 So in

addition to the big bag of cash that we also give the Far for Christmas. 00:22:20.750 --> 00:22:27.870 I think uh it's important to know that you know these businesses, you can't just take over them from day one. 00:22:28.029 --> 00:22:44.990 We actually have to do so much work during the pre-investment phase to figure out what that business is actually going to look like, how are we going to run it, who's going to be responsible for what, and very importantly, who's going to take over certain responsibilities and at what point in time. 00:22:45.230 --> 00:22:48.990 So, what what kind of what kind of things does your business like to control? 00:22:49.150 --> 00:22:52.110 And what things do you like to leave to the creator? 00:22:52.509 --> 00:22:53.150 Great question. 00:22:53.309 --> 00:22:55.230 I probably split it into three things. 00:22:55.390 --> 00:22:59.150 Uh, first one being the kind of admin related to running a YouTube channel. 00:22:59.309 --> 00:23:09.390 So whether that be sponsorships, contract negotiation, finance, legal, etc., those are aspects where creators are really happy to hand them over as soon as possible. 00:23:09.470 --> 00:23:12.029 So we can usually take those over very quickly. 00:23:12.269 --> 00:23:31.710 The production is where it takes a lot more work and effort to figure out what does the creator enjoy, what do they not enjoy, where are they essential, where are they not essential, and then figuring out a sustainable transition plan to get the creator kind of out of the things that we both agree that we can get them out of at a certain point in time. 00:23:31.950 --> 00:23:40.350 So we basically have a centralized production function that can support that, such as video editors or script writers or script editors, et cetera. 00:23:40.509 --> 00:23:45.230 Um, so that's a bit more of an artsy one and requires a lot of detailed work, but we can support on production. 00:23:45.870 --> 00:24:01.710 And then last but not least on the commercial side, as Claire alluded to, um, a lot of the work that we can do is helping the creator's vision come to life for larger commercial projects, whether that be a product line or an original documentary, and we can help them to basically bring their vision to life. 00:24:02.190 --> 00:24:09.630 Just to build on that, Claire, I when I looked at uh Electrify's LinkedIn profile, I saw that you had about a hundred people. 00:24:09.950 --> 00:24:11.230 A hundred people in the T. 00:24:11.630 --> 00:24:17.710 I mean, that's a tremendous amount of infrastructure that you are providing creative businesses you invest in. 00:24:17.870 --> 00:24:29.950 So just give us, we have only got a couple of minutes left, but can you give us a brief overview of what is that infrastructure and how how that is being deployed to help kind of create a businesses take off like that? 00:24:30.110 --> 00:24:33.789 Yeah, I mean, look, it's not dissimilar to what Indy just mentioned, so I don't want to cover

all ground. 00:24:33.870 --> 00:24:39.710 I think the main difference would be is that we build sort of pods around the individual creator businesses. 00:24:39.789 --> 00:24:44.350 So there are sort of dedicated end-to-end production teams for Veritassium. 00:24:44.430 --> 00:24:47.710 In fact, there's multiple for Veritassium and for Fern, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 00:24:47.789 --> 00:24:51.309 So the large volume of our staffing is on the production side. 00:24:51.390 --> 00:24:55.390 But then we have a commercial development function, shout out Ollie, who I think is here. 00:24:55.549 --> 00:24:58.190 We have the finance and operations, all of that good stuff. 00:24:58.350 --> 00:25:02.190 Um, we have a data science team that's providing actionable insights. 00:25:02.269 --> 00:25:04.110 And I think maybe that's a bit of a rarity. 00:25:04.190 --> 00:25:20.670 I have better access to data science than I did in my eight years at Google, uh, that are, you know, telling our or helping our creators with um with facts and figures and so what's of like, you know, your audience loves uh thumbnails with two people in them, et cetera, et cetera, um, to drive incremental improvement. 00:25:20.910 --> 00:25:26.029 And uh, we also have a brand sponsorship team that's getting, you know, premium rates and selling out all of that inventory. 00:25:26.110 --> 00:25:33.630 So we're we're structured similarly, um, but with maybe just a bit more sort of firepower on the production side that's dedicated to each of those properties. 00:25:33.710 --> 00:25:48.910 And I think one of the things that we work really hard to do is to in operationalizing those production teams is to um sort of build out Bibles and frameworks that kind of document what is the secret sauce, insofar as you can document that kind of secret sauce. 00:25:49.069 --> 00:25:54.110 And, you know, I struggled clearly earlier in response to your question to talk about emotional residence and how we measure it. 00:25:54.190 --> 00:26:15.950 But insofar as you can kind of put together guidelines of what good looks like um to capture that, you know, that thought leadership, because so much of, you know, in the knowledge space, in particular edutainment space, is captured in that, you know, if you're a coding expert or a physics expert or whatever you are, you know, you feel like a lot of that is is you and and kind of externalizing you is um is what we work on first. 00:26:16.269 --> 00:26:17.870 Okay, so we we're almost out of time. 00:26:17.950 --> 00:26:19.309 Just one final question. 00:26:19.630 --> 00:26:24.589 So we've got a number of uh creators in social video businesses in the audience today. 00:26:25.069 --> 00:26:31.390 How how would you think about uh what they need to do to make themselves investor ready? 00:26:31.630 --> 00:26:33.230 Very quick answer from each of you. 00:26:33.470 --> 00:26:39.390 How do you make a young social video business that's got potential investor ready? 00:26:39.789 --> 00:26:46.350 I would say either lead your niche or make the operations um not overly reliant on you as an individual. 00:26:48.029 --> 00:26:54.269 Um think like an entrepreneur, get a good team around you, and that could be an accountant or a lawyer, it could be a thing like that. 00:26:54.350 --> 00:27:01.309 But think like an entrepreneur, think like a business, um, and set yourself up as a business because that is what people are looking forward to invest moving forward. 00:27:01.789 --> 00:27:12.670 All of that plus see if you can establish your profitability around like recurring revenues that aren't kind of spiky and erratic, and that'll get you like the best possible valuation. 00:27:13.230 --> 00:27:13.549 Great. 00:27:13.630 --> 00:27:15.069 Well, thank you very much to all of you. 00:27:15.150 --> 00:27:16.990 I've hope you found this panel interesting. 00:27:17.230 --> 00:27:26.269 Look, I think we're in a moment now where uh the YouTube ecosystem is evolving, you know, it is getting to a level of greater maturity. 00:27:26.430 --> 00:27:35.549 I think about this is in the past, you know, the business was a little bit like an awkward teenager uh who is fumbling around not really knowing what to do. 00:27:35.789 --> 00:27:50.350 We're now at a point, I think, where we've got a much greater level of maturity, uh, which means that businesses in this space can behave more like adults, and responsible adults are going to be given money to play with. 00:27:50.589 --> 00:27:51.390 Thank you for your time. 00:27:51.549 --> 00:27:55.150 Any questions, the panel I'm sure, will be able to take them after the event. 00:27:55.230 --> 00:27:59.630 Uh, and thanks to everyone at Telecast for putting on this tremendous uh day. 00:27:59.789 --> 00:28:00.670 Thank you. 00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:12.990 Well, that was Money Talks inside the new wave of social video investment recorded live at the Digital Content Forum 2025. 00:28:13.309 --> 00:28:17.150 Daniel Winner, Idley Stunner, Jason Kingston Brown, and Claire Getty. 00:28:17.950 --> 00:28:31.549 If that conversation sharpens your thinking about where the market's heading, the Digital Content Forum itself is back on the 5th of November at the BFI South Bank in Investment, and monetization is very much on the agenda again this year. 00:28:31.950 --> 00:28:40.269 Details and early bird tickets are available at digitalcontentforum.com, and we'll have more on this year's programme in the weeks ahead. 00:28:40.430 --> 00:28:41.309 Thanks for listening. 00:28:41.470 --> 00:28:42.670 I hope you enjoyed the show. 00:28:42.829 --> 00:28:44.670 We'll be back again next week. 00:28:44.829 --> 00:28:47.069 Until then, stay safe.