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Live from Leimert Park, this is the Tavis Smiley Show,
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and I'm your special guest host, Dr. Nacordelon Corté, filling
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in for Tavis as he's away, and we are so glad, so,
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so glad to be back in stride again. Before we
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get started with today's show, let me invite you to
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follow Tavis on Facebook and Instagram at TheRealTavisSmiley, and get
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updates on X, you know, that platform formerly known as Twitter.
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Just go ahead and follow him. at Tavis Smiley on
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that platform. You can also follow me on all the
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platforms at DrNicordalai. Just type in DrNiq, D-R-N-I-I-Q, and boom, bam, boom,
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there I am, fresh for you to follow. By the way,
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should you miss any part of today's program or want
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to catch up on previous shows, you can always visit
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the TavisSmileyShow.com or wherever you get your podcasts and listen
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to the Tavis Smiley Podcast at your leisure. A great
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show on tap for you today. In our second hour,
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two conversations. On the A side, I talk with attorney
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and TV judge Tanya Acker to get her analysis about
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the expected legal drama of the blue wave from investigations
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to impeachments and get her thoughts about the fate, the
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fate of the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice.
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On the B side, I talk with nationally syndicated Latino
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columnist Ruben Navarrete about the impact of the Latino vote
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on the midterms.
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You know, I got a lot of questions there. You
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might have a lot of questions, too. And in our
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third hour, I.
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Check in with the executive director of Live Free USA,
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Pastor Mike McBride, and futurist and founder of Future Culture,
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Steve Parget, about how they brought black faith leaders, organizers,
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and technologists together. at the 10th Annual Afrotech Conference for
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the Adoption and Signing of a Covenant Agreement on AI
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that was written by the people in the room and
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will be carried by Black churches into.
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The new age.
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That should be a fascinating conversation. I've been looking forward
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to it all week. But we commence today's show in
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this first hour talking politics and more with the co-director
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of the Politics and Education Program at the Teachers College
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at Columbia University, my friend Dr.
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Jonathan Collins.
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Welcome to a more, welcome to a, I almost said
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a more perfect union because he's also the democracy scholar
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on my afternoon drive time show, a more perfect union,
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which is on Tavis's home station on KBLA.
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Welcome back family. How you doing Dr. Collins?
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Dr. Cord, great to see you. Great to see you
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this morning. Glad to be here.
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It's great to see you. It's great to have you here.
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You are one of the sharpest minds in how democracy
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actually works at the ground floor, whether we're talking.
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About school boards or young voters.
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But you got your finger on the pulse of what's
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happening in the places where power starts. I've got to
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ask you about this Pete Hegseth impeachment. I want to
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start with this little plot twist here because, as you.
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Know, Dr. Collins, yesterday....
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Kentucky Republican Thomas Massey introduced eight articles of impeachment against
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Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Three of them accuse him of
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waging war on Iran without authorization from Congress. Others cite
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civilian casualties, the boat strikes in the Caribbean, the capture
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of Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro, and the Pentagon scrutiny of Senator
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Mark Kelly. Hegseth calls it a sham. a sham from
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what he called a, quote, disgruntled, defeated congressman. Under House rules,
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leaders have two legislative days to bring it to a vote,
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and if it passes, Hegseth would be only the third
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cabinet secretary ever impeached.
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Dr.
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Jonathan, a Republican, is doing what Democrats have been asked
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to do for a year.
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What does it tell you? That the
Load full transcript
first big.
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Accountability move after the election, it came from inside the GOP.
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It tells you that There's this thing that we like
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to do, Dr. Corte.
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We as human beings, we like to lick our finger
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and put it to the wind, see which direction the
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breeze is blowing. And I think that's exactly what is
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happening in this story, in this situation. The Republican Party,
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fresh off of getting blasted in the midterm election, it's
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not a surprise to see someone like Tom Massey from
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Kentucky initiating this impeachment campaign.
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He is reading the tea leaves, Dr. Corte.
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He is looking at the writing on the wall. The
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Republican Party's policies have been unfavorable, and especially the decision
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to initiate this foreign conflict. This has been the number
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one reason why energy costs in the United States are
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sky high. Your gas prices, if you're in the car
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right now, And you're looking at that gas tank and
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it's getting close to E and you are dreading the
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idea of having to go to the gas pump because
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you know how much money is going to cost you.
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Guess what?
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It's all directly connected to the foreign conflict in Iran.
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And that's right on Pete Hexeth's shoulders. He is wearing that.
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It was a decision to go to war unilaterally without
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the support of Congress.
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It is a disaster.
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Well, we're going to follow this disaster when we come forward.
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You're listening to The Tavis Smiley Show. You are listening
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to and streaming The Tavis Smiley Show.
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I'm your guest host, Dr.
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Nkordelai Korte. I'm really delighted to be in conversation with Dr.
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Jonathan Collins, Associate Professor of Political Science at the Columbia University.
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He is also a democracy scholar on my afternoon drive-time show,
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More Perfect Union, on KBLA, Tavis' home station. And we've
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been talking about... Secretary Pete Hegseth, you know, he's feeling
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the fire, right? And not in the Tina Marie sort
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of way, if you follow. He is feeling the fire
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from inside the party. Representative Thomas Massey has drawn out
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articles of impeachment.
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And he ain't playing around. He ain't playing around. I
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think a lot of people thought that.
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You know, the Democrats were going to lead the effort
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to begin to impeach cabinet members who have broken the
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law or who have allegedly broken the law. And it
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seems that this is Republican on Republican right now. Take
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a listen to what Secretary Hexheff had to say during
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a fiery, fiery press conference on Capitol Hill just this morning.
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It's a political spectacle.
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A personal manifesto driven by ego and resentment. Time for
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one man's final days in Congress to try to do
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damage to this president, this country, and most irresponsibly, the
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warriors who defend it.
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It's a farce and it's a stunt. And everybody knows it.
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In the 250 years of our American Republic, no Secretary
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of War, or Secretary of Defense has ever been impeached
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for carrying out lawful military operations. And in our case,
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successful ones at that.
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Not once.
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War powers resolution or not, not under Reagan in Lebanon,
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not under Clinton in Kosovo, not under Obama in Iraq
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and Syria, not under Biden in Iraq and Syria. That's
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the standard. The history is clear and it's very straightforward.
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And one disgruntled congressman wants.
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To shred it over policy disagreements.
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That's what it is, policy disagreements.
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Not high crimes, not misdemeanors, not treason, not bribery, not
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the kinds of offenses the founders intended when they wrote
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the impeachment clause. The proper remedy for a policy disagreement,
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it's legislation.
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A policy disagreement. Dr. Collins, would you reduce....
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Calls for Pete Hegseth's impeachment to simple policy disagreements?
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Is that what this is? Is that the way you
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see it? A policy disagreement?
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Yeah, it's much deeper than that. I'm surprised that he
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undersells what's on the table in such an extreme way.
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I mean, this is a gross undersell. We're talking about.
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The policy disagreement he's referring to is the Iran war
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authorization without Congress. Sure, that's a policy disagreement. But what's
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also in the eight articles that is cited in the resolution,
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civilian casualties, they're putting over 1,200 bodies on Pete Hex's head,
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responsible for over 1,000 deaths. When you start to factor
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in the boat strikes, when you start to factor in
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deaths in the Iran conflict. He's also cited for retaliation
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against Senator Mark Kelly. Can't forget about that. Allegedly using
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the Pentagon's authority against a sitting senator for speech concerning
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unlawful military orders. Y'all remember when they just up and
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kidnapped the leader of Venezuela?
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Mm-hmm. These are serious, serious... crimes that have costs and consequences,
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not just for us domestically, but for the state. of
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the world.
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This is the message that we are sending to countries
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around the world, that it's okay to initiate conflict unilaterally
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without any kind of democratic process or any kind of deliberation.
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That it's okay to just kidnap foreign leaders of countries
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who you want to exploit for their oil resources. This
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is so much deeper than policy. This is dead bodies
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on the streets. This is an elementary school that was.
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Bombed, Dr.
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Neal.
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These are war crimes.
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He wanted to be the secretary of war. Well, you're
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the secretary of war, and now you need to pay
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the consequences for acting in ways that are irresponsible.
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And so, you know, I want to bring this this
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conversation to the streets for a second, because the core
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charge is that is war without Congress's permission.
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And so and so for our leaders, learners.
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And listeners who are tuning out the procedure of it all,
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what should what should a grandmother, what should, you know,
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an uncle in Memphis do? you know, why should a
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grandmother or why should an uncle in Memphis, why should
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they care about the war power clause anyway?
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Well, because it protects one of the fundamental principles of democracy,
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which is separation of powers. And so we may abuse
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the fact that the separation of powers are important, but
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think about it this way. If we lived in a
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world where, or a society where, in a country where
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one person, all the power was concentrated in one person
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and whatever decisions that that person wanted to make, That's
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the way it went. And whenever they go rogue and
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do things that put us in danger, there's no check.
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There's no balance. The War Powers Act of 1973 was
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to ensure that we maintain those separations of power.
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Because, Dr. Neat, listeners, do you know what the.
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Legislation in 1973 was all about? This was a response
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to the Vietnam War, where we had some of the
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largest losses of American lives in a conflict in modern
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American history because the president and his administration, the Nixon administration,
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acted unilaterally.
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And you know what happened to Nixon after that conflict, Dr.
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Me?
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What happened?
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Got him up out of there. Packed him up.
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Tell the people.
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Impeached in shame.
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The word Nixon is mud in American politics because of
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The way in which he acted as a president unwilling
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to accept the separation of powers. What we're accusing Pete
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Hexup of in this moment is the Nixon playbook being
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replicated in real time.
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So this is a big deal.
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So, Dr. Collins, look, Republicans hold the House for a
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few more weeks. Does
this pass? Does it fail? Does
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it get tabled? What's what's the what should we be watching?
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Get your popcorn out, get you a nice soda, maybe
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an Icy, if that's more your style. Actually, I won't
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encourage the Icy because we got to keep our sugar
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levels right.
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You know what I'm saying?
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We don't need that in our community, but this is
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going to be political must-see TV because what we've been
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seeing from President Trump, if you saw his 60 Minutes interview,
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is at least some level of contrition and acceptance of
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the fact that His policies were unpopular and led to
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the slaughtering that took place of the Republican Party in
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the midterm elections. And so if Donald Trump is willing
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to admit that the unpopularity of his policies contributed to
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the result, again, licking your finger, holding it up in
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the air, seeing which way the wind is blowing, I
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expect more members of the Republican Party to do the
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same because right now it's all about self-preservation.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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The only other thing I would add, uh, for folks
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who may shrug their shoulders and say, okay, you know,
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why should we care about this? Um, just a reminder, uh, that, uh,
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we also have black service members and military families that
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are a part of this conversation, uh, that, uh, you know,
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bear the brunt of some of the short-sighted, uh, decisions. Um,
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you know, some of the targeting that has been reported of, uh,
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black service members, uh, You know, for, you know, black
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men that don't shave their faces every day. And I
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count myself among among them.
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Right.
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They're trying to change policy to force them to have
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to do that, knowing that shaving every day has an
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adverse reaction on our skin or it can. And and so,
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you know, we got to, you know, keep our eye
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on these issues because they do impact us.
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They do impact us.
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You know, I want to turn to talk a little
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bit about.
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Hakeem Jeffries. The promise. You're beaming in from New York,
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so you know exactly what I'm talking about.
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Last week, Hakeem Jeffries, he told Don Lemon, quote, we
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will deliver accountability. And he said anyone screwing over the
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American people would face– you know, some consequences. They're going
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to face it on day one of the new Congress.
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That's the promise. Now, here's the bill.
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Pollster Terrence Woodbury, your Morehouse brother, he told the folks
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over at the Griot that the blacklash was never about
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electing Democrats, and so the blacklash does not end just
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because Democrats won. His polling found that less than half
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of black voters believe that Democrats will make their lives better.
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Melanie Campbell, over at the National Coalition of Black Civic Participation,
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She put it plainly. She said, if you can't get
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it done, you better be caught trying. And Westmore said,
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we don't need a 100 day plan. We need a
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100 hour plan.
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And so, Dr. Collins, let's talk accountability.
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Accountability for the last administration versus results for this neighborhood.
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Can Democrats do both or does one eat the other's oxygen?
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Oh, no, I think these two work hand in hand,
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you know, on because you have to look at, OK, well,
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what realistically are the powers? What are the levers that
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this new Democratic majority can pull? And so they have
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the ability to initiate congressional investigations. They can hold hearings.
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They can request records. They can authorize subpoenas. They have
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the ability to pursue impeachment per last segment. It's it's
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already done. we're already on that beaten path a little
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bit by the Republican Party.
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That's the crazy part about this.
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They're pursuing removal of office, proposing new legislation, and then
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negotiations over budgets and spending, as well as criminal prosecutions.
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So everything's on the board. Everything's on the table. I
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think why they work hand in hand too is because
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you're going to have to go after Trump personnel, Trump
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administration personnel that have been inadequate for their positions in
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order to also pursue policy goals that are going to
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satisfy the voters who are the wind beneath the wings
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that are bringing this Democratic majority into office right now.
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You can't expect a new policy reform to be implemented
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by an administration that has brought on more and more incompetence.
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You have to attack both.
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Improving the actual human capital of government while also coming
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through with reform bills that can actually make lives better
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for everyday Americans.
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That's the goal.
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Isn't it wild that we talk about making lives better
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for everyday Americans, we talk about it like it's this
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radical new thing, right? I mean, if you're in Congress,
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the root word in your title is representative.
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It's representative.
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And You know, there's just a critical mass of American
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people that aren't feeling the relief. They're not they're feeling
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that their government is actually working against them and not
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for them. We're watching the weaponization of government happen right
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before our very eyes. You know, Terrence Woodbury says that
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black men who drifted towards Trump back in 2024 came
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back but remain swing voters.
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What do you.
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See among young black voters that we're not talking about
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enough on airwaves?
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Well, we forget the fact that young Black men in
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particular are growing up in a very different America. You know,
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this is a very different time. You know, think about
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where we are economically, right? The workforce has changed. You know,
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if you were coming out of college, you know, 10,
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especially 20 years ago, the expectation is there are all
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these white-collar jobs that are available for you, you know,
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whether it's going into engineering, especially emerging technologies. Even if
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you were If you're coming out for working class, junior college,
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maybe no college at all, there's a manufacturing industry that's
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there for you to also be able to make a living,
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work towards a pension where you can, provide for your family.
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A lot of those economies are gone or they're evaporating
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right now. If you're a young black male, 18 to.
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29, what are the prospects for you?
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And I think that was one of the appeals of Trump, unfortunately,
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is that they looked at these economic conditions and they
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felt like the Democratic Party wasn't speaking to it. They
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gave Trump a chance. But I think they're also quickly
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realizing Trump's economic plan.
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What was it? Platinum plus?
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Oh, the platinum plan. And this is the wild thing.
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I heard nobody talk about that platinum plan since he
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got elected. Everybody, ooh, the platinum plan versus the opportunity.
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Agenda, right?
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The opportunity agenda that Kamala Harris had put forward during
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her campaign. I heard nothing about the platinum plan. Let
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me just say to the people, I think the platinum
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plan is in the witness protection program.
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It's missing. I didn't even remember.
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I just remember it sounded something like a strip club.
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That's the only thing that I could eat. And I
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was like something something gentlemen's clubby.
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Oh, yeah.
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Platinum plan. Right. That did nothing for that for that demographic.
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And so I think they're looking at the messages that
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are coming from the Democratic Party now. Again, this election
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was not just about the Democratic Party as a whole.
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This was about young Democratic Party leaders. This was the
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millennial generation asserting itself as the new frontier within the
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Democratic Party, pushing these messages of affordability. And that is
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what's bringing young Black voters into the fold.
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And speaking of millennials, I mean, one of them, Wes Moore,
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who a lot of people believe may put his name
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in the hat to run for president of the United
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States in 2028.
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Yeah.
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According to his sort of short list of priorities that
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he thinks Democrats should focus on, ending the Iran war,
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reversing tariffs and health care cuts, more contracts for black
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businesses and apprenticeships.
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When we come forward, Dr. Collins, I want to ask you,
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which of.
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These is realistic with a Republican president holding the veto pin?
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You are listening to and streaming the Tavis Miley Show.
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More with Dr.
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Jonathan E.
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Collins of Columbia University when we come forward.
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Are listening to and streaming The Tavis Miley Show. I'm
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your guest host, Dr.
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Nkordelai Korte, and really delighted to be in conversation with
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my friend and brother, Dr.
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Jonathan E. Collins.
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He is an associate professor of political science at Columbia University.
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He is the resident democracy scholar on my afternoon drive-time show,
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More Perfect Union, on KBLA Talk 1580, Tavis' home station.
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And we've been Talking about Hakeem Jeffries, that is the
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topic du jour, but most importantly, what needs to get
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done in order to keep the momentum that Democrats have
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created with that historic election just one week ago today.
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Before the break, Dr.
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Collins, I gave you the short list of priorities according
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to Maryland Governor Wes Moore. And I want to ask you,
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which of those is realistic with a Republican president holding
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the veto pen, ending the Iran war, reversing the tariffs,
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health care cuts, more contracts for Black businesses and apprenticeships?
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00:23:17.930
What's realistic?
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Well, I mean, I wouldn't overestimate the ability for the
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Democrats to put together a coalition that could override a veto.
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And so this has multiple parts to it. On one hand,
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there is real concern that President Trump would exercise veto
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authority over proposals sent by a Democratic Party majority that
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he doesn't like.
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There's precedent for that.
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Presidents become almost four times more likely to initiate a
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veto or to veto a bill when their party is
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the minority party or basically when the opposition party controls
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both chambers. Again, four times more likely. to veto policies
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when this is the case. On the flip side, vetoes
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have become rarer and rarer, more and more rare over
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the last few presidential cycles. So, you know, President Obama,
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even when the opposition party was in control, only initiated
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about 10 vetoes.
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George Bush, about 11.
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You didn't really see the use of veto power until, well,
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the use of veto power goes back mainly before the
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year 2000.
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It's more of a antiquity kind of thing.
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The issue with Trump is that if there's anything we've
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seen from him, is that he's more of a president
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who governs like a Reagan, like a Nixon. These are
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also two presidents that use that veto.
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Authority a lot.
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President Nixon, in fact, all of his vetoes were done
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while his party was in the minority where the opposition party.
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Was in control.
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So if there's any parallel, again, going back to the
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first segment with Pete Hegseth, the parallels between.
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Nixon administration, Trump administration.
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If I'm Westmore and I'm concerned about what might happen,
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I'm looking at what happened with that Nixon administration. And
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I say, oh, that's probably a prologue of past to
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expect here in the next few weeks.
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Our elders, they voted out of a sense of duty
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as we sort of sort through a lot of the
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insights from exit polls from a week ago. It seems
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that our young people voted out of dealmaking.
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Is that fair? And if so, is that a problem?
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I think, you know, dealmaking is a very interesting way
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to frame it. If you look at the framing of
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the candidates, I would say that there was a new
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form of pragmatism that was at place. I think there
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has been pressure on the Democratic Party to be less
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abstract and Right. You know, one of the things, just
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an exercise that I did during one of my classes
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last week, I asked my students, what was the Democratic
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Party messaging in the 2024 election?
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Right.
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What was the brand of the Democratic Party? And they
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basically arrived at, well, not Trump. I think it was
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a little bit more complicated than that, but that was
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kind of the sort of the upshot that people took
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away from the Democratic Party's brand. And so what was
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the brand for 2026? And they said affordability. And so
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I wouldn't call it deal making. I would call it pragmatism.
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I think the Democratic Party has been forced to be practical.
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Tell me how any opposition to Trump, again, is going
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to help everyday people. How is it going to put
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more money in people's pockets? And so I think that's
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the choice that young and older voters made in the midterms.
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On election night, the president told The New York Times
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that he was absolutely willing, quotes, absolutely willing to accept
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the results. But by Sunday, he posted on Truth Social, quotes,
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does anybody really believe that this election was honest? He
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wrote that that early voting dumps were were too big
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to overcome and that it's all about the machines, which
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are far more important than the voter. Election officials across
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the country have not raised major concerns about early voting
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or machines in these races. And in many cases, particularly
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in many of the red states where Democrats won, Republicans
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run the elections.
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And so Dr. Collins, he accepted the results, then unaccepted it.
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Is this a warning shot for 2028 or is this
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just a man venting about a bad week?
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Dr.
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Corte, this is not a warning for 2028. This is
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a warning for 2027. So what's going to happen in
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January of 2027? These new members of Congress are going
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to be sworn in. Do you remember what happened in
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January of 2020? January 6th of 2020.
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Can't forget it was right there in Washington, D.C.
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You were there.
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Now, back in November, President Trump gave lip service to
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accepting the results of the presidential election. He also started
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to sort of drop these tea leaves that he has
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questions about voting machines and the vote counts.
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In certain states.
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All of this started to leak through, but it didn't
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bubble up. until January. So again, I hear what he's
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saying in interviews. To your point, I saw what he
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said on Truth Social. But I wrote an op-ed about
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this in the Washington Post that you can check out.
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This is my big fear, is that when it really
488
00:29:07.670 --> 00:29:12.329
comes down to it, that Trump supporters will not actually
489
00:29:13.009 --> 00:29:16.880
accept the outcome of the midterm elections. And there is
490
00:29:16.930 --> 00:29:23.420
historical precedent for there to be major political violence should
491
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:28.839
this not happen. So again, believe it when you see it, people.
492
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:32.769
Wait and see what happens when it's swearing in time
493
00:29:33.029 --> 00:29:34.970
in January, because it looks like we're going to get
494
00:29:35.029 --> 00:29:38.990
closer and closer and closer to Trump, again, starting to
495
00:29:39.029 --> 00:29:43.200
put a battery in the back of his supporters if
496
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:46.000
it means that he can potentially retain power.
497
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:47.980
But even in putting that battery in the pack of
498
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:50.720
his supporters it seems like a lot of his supporters
499
00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.289
you know have left him by the roadside i mean
500
00:29:53.309 --> 00:29:55.210
you know i think i was reading somewhere that uh
501
00:29:55.650 --> 00:29:59.569
there's a County in Mississippi that is home to like
502
00:29:59.609 --> 00:30:02.470
the grand wizard of the KKK. And even that County
503
00:30:02.529 --> 00:30:05.910
in Mississippi voted for Scott Cologne. And so, you know,
504
00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:08.690
I think, you know, there's a lot of buyer's remorse
505
00:30:09.549 --> 00:30:14.569
that it seems a lot of, of Trump voters, MAGA voters,
506
00:30:15.410 --> 00:30:20.190
even independent voters that supported him in 2024 are experiencing.
507
00:30:20.230 --> 00:30:23.869
And so I, you know, you know, Maybe we're wise
508
00:30:23.930 --> 00:30:29.190
or not to think that that reality means that any
509
00:30:29.250 --> 00:30:33.279
attempt at January 6th, the sequel ain't going to happen.
510
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.200
No, I think that's fair. You know, if you also
511
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:39.059
look at the difference between 2020 and 2026. 2020 was
512
00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:40.660
a very close election. 2026 was a massacre.
513
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:52.769
It was a blowout. This was it was not. a
514
00:30:52.849 --> 00:30:56.890
close call whatsoever. It was a destruction. It was a demolition.
515
00:30:59.660 --> 00:31:05.500
Basically, if the East Wing of the White House, what
516
00:31:05.539 --> 00:31:07.019
he did to the East Wing of the White House
517
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:13.829
is what voters did to Republicans in office in 2026.
518
00:31:13.829 --> 00:31:14.589
Is that what you're saying, Dr.
519
00:31:14.710 --> 00:31:14.950
Collins?
520
00:31:15.029 --> 00:31:20.230
Yeah, exactly. Destroyed it, demolished it, ruined it.
521
00:31:21.210 --> 00:31:22.789
We go, we go, we go come back to that
522
00:31:22.809 --> 00:31:25.230
in a moment, but I also want to talk about, uh,
523
00:31:25.349 --> 00:31:29.910
Wes Moore because, uh, uh, some good news. Um, Wes Moore,
524
00:31:29.950 --> 00:31:32.799
he told the griot that being America's only black governor
525
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.579
was never a title that he wanted. And he added
526
00:31:35.619 --> 00:31:38.140
that making history is not the assignment as chair of
527
00:31:38.180 --> 00:31:42.039
the national governor's association. He campaigned for Keisha Lance bottoms
528
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:45.440
and David Crowley and Aaron Ford, uh, and all three
529
00:31:45.500 --> 00:31:50.380
of them, one, uh, and one, uh, handedly. Uh, and, uh,
530
00:31:50.730 --> 00:31:54.220
We're going to talk about that and more when we
531
00:31:54.259 --> 00:31:57.079
come forward. You're listening to and streaming the Tavis Smiley Show.
532
00:31:57.299 --> 00:32:00.819
This gentleman right here in the Morehouse swag, that's Dr.
533
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:03.599
Jonathan E. Collins of Columbia University. You better know.
534
00:32:03.619 -->
00:32:09.109
From the Mert Park with love, this is Tavis Smiley.
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over 130 years. Use as directed.
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An official message from Medicare.
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Medicare plans change from one year to the next. And
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or call 1-800-MEDICARE.
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Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
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It just smells like nostalgic breakfast memories. Hey, I'm Ellie.
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and Waffles Breakfast Sandwich is.
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It's the perfect mix of sweet and savory.
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The combination of crispy, juicy, savory chicken with the sweetness
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and fluffy softness of a waffle.
559
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And the bacon just makes it better.
560
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Plus the fact that it's handheld, 10 out of 10.
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Every bite is a home run.
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Order the Chick-fil-A Chicken and Waffles Breakfast Sandwich with a
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Real guests paid for their testimonials.
565
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Hey, Dad, how do airplanes fly?
566
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What's in this box?
567
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Can I touch this?
568
00:33:51.009 --> 00:33:52.309
Where does sand come from?
569
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:56.559
Is this tree good for climbing? What happens if I
570
00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:57.700
mix these two things together?
571
00:33:58.660 --> 00:33:59.720
How are babies made?
572
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:02.000
What does this thing do?
573
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:07.380
Kids are curious about everything, including guns. Talking to them
574
00:34:07.420 --> 00:34:09.880
about gun safety in your home is a good first step,
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00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:13.500
but you can do more. Always keep your guns locked, unloaded,
576
00:34:13.699 --> 00:34:17.010
and stored separately from ammunition. Storing your guns securely is
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00:34:17.050 --> 00:34:20.469
the best way to prevent family fire, including unintentional shootings.
578
00:34:20.849 --> 00:34:23.449
For more information on safe gun storage and ways to
579
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keep your family safe, visit endfamilyfire.org. That's endfamilyfire.org.
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What do we keep in the attic? What's this thing called?
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Can I ride my bike backwards?
582
00:34:36.670 --> 00:34:39.010
Like I said, kids are curious. It's up to us
583
00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:41.949
to keep them safe. Brought to you by N Family Fire, Brady,
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and the Ad Council.
585
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.940
Helping to make you the most knowledgeable person in your
586
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.360
circle of friends. This is Tavis Smiley.
587
00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:54.440
You are listening to and streaming the Tavis Smiley Show.
588
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.559
I'm your guest host, Dr. Nakordelai Korte.
589
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.119
He is Dr. Jonathan E.
590
00:34:58.179 --> 00:35:03.340
Collins, professor of political science at Columbia University. and proud
591
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:07.179
Morehouse man. In case you didn't know, for those of
592
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.079
you that are streaming us live right now, you can
593
00:35:09.139 --> 00:35:14.420
see the Morehouse swag is swagging. And so there you
594
00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:18.530
have it. Speaking of swag, let me tell you something.
595
00:35:18.550 --> 00:35:24.030
Governor Westmore got swag. I have interviewed him multiple times,
596
00:35:24.909 --> 00:35:26.730
and let me just say just the.
597
00:35:26.969 --> 00:35:27.150
the.
598
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.239
Generosity of spirit is alive and well.
599
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.360
There are a lot of public officials out there that
600
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:42.969
are very conservative about how much they support other public officials.
601
00:35:43.030 --> 00:35:43.469
He's not.
602
00:35:44.650 --> 00:35:48.610
He is actually quite generous and has been on the
603
00:35:48.650 --> 00:35:52.190
campaign trail supporting a number of folks. He made it
604
00:35:52.230 --> 00:35:55.050
his business to make sure that Keisha Lance Bottoms and
605
00:35:55.070 --> 00:35:58.389
David Crowley and Aaron Ford And I would also add
606
00:35:58.829 --> 00:36:03.269
Jermaine Johnson, who was unsuccessful in his bid for governor
607
00:36:03.349 -->
00:36:07.300
of South Carolina, but I'm hearing that we may see
608
00:36:07.340 --> 00:36:11.320
him emerge as a South Carolina Senate candidate in 2028. But,
609
00:36:11.619 --> 00:36:14.800
you know, Governor Moore has helped to lay the groundwork.
610
00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:18.940
And I've got to ask you, Dr. Collins, with Governor
611
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:24.780
Moore saying that making history isn't the assignment, but for
612
00:36:24.949 --> 00:36:28.670
a 10-year-old in Milwaukee seeing a Black governor for the
613
00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:31.570
first time, isn't that part of the assignment? It may
614
00:36:31.610 --> 00:36:33.699
not be all of the assignment, but isn't that part
615
00:36:33.739 --> 00:36:33.949
of it?
616
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:35.639
Well, yeah.
617
00:36:36.139 --> 00:36:39.139
So I think, you know, Westmore is right in that
618
00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:42.579
the assignment is not to make history, but we can't,
619
00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:45.679
we have to appreciate when history is made, to your point,
620
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.559
because it changes the view of what's possible for the
621
00:36:48.619 --> 00:36:52.280
next generation, right? You know, and the thing that I've
622
00:36:52.340 --> 00:36:58.510
loved about Westmore's approach to this question of being well, still,
623
00:36:58.550 --> 00:37:02.489
I guess, until, you know, we actually see the swearing
624
00:37:02.570 --> 00:37:05.409
in of the new governors, him being the only black governor,
625
00:37:05.510 --> 00:37:09.010
his philosophy on this has been, it ain't no fun
626
00:37:09.110 --> 00:37:10.860
if the homies can't have enough, right?
627
00:37:10.900 --> 00:37:16.619
Like, he's wanted.
628
00:37:15.219 --> 00:37:20.780
More of us in these positions leading states as the executive.
629
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:25.679
And to see him not only have that sentiment but
630
00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:29.659
then be at the forefront of congratulating and supporting a
631
00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:32.739
lot of the black, all of these black gubernatorials, a
632
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:34.480
lot of, because Byron Donald's.
633
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:39.030
Pin in that is a whole separate conversation.
634
00:37:39.550 --> 00:37:43.050
But to see Westmore wrapping arms around Keisha Lance Bottoms,
635
00:37:43.530 --> 00:37:47.289
supporting David Crowley, Aaron Ford, what we haven't been talking
636
00:37:47.349 --> 00:37:51.780
about too is even Stacey Plaskett in the Virgin Islands.
637
00:37:52.530 --> 00:37:56.269
I mean, this is, We haven't seen this level of
638
00:37:56.809 --> 00:38:00.369
Black political uplift since Reconstruction.
639
00:38:00.530 --> 00:38:00.929
That's right.
640
00:38:01.010 --> 00:38:02.389
Right after the Civil War.
641
00:38:03.690 --> 00:38:07.869
And for Westmore to really be the mouthpiece for it,
642
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:10.900
I couldn't pick a better.
643
00:38:12.219 --> 00:38:13.960
Person to be that. He's
just been phenomenal.
644
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:15.800
Yeah. And for so many people out there that think
645
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:20.090
that somehow, some way Black political power is on the decline.
646
00:38:20.110 --> 00:38:22.519
I mean, how many stories that we hear during the
647
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:26.199
last cycle of folks attempting to write the obituary on
648
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:29.820
Black political power in the United States, particularly in the South.
649
00:38:31.219 --> 00:38:34.639
And one week ago today, we took out our usher
650
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.539
fingers and we said, watch this, right?
651
00:38:37.110 --> 00:38:37.989
That's exactly what we did.
652
00:38:38.179 --> 00:38:42.010
When we come forward, five Black governors, including one Republican
653
00:38:42.150 --> 00:38:45.449
in Florida. What does Byron Donalds win? What does that
654
00:38:45.510 --> 00:38:51.860
tell us about Black political diversity, our final moments with Dr.
655
00:38:52.059 --> 00:38:52.679
Jonathan E.
656
00:38:52.699 --> 00:38:53.059
Collins.
657
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:55.000
You're listening to and streaming the Tavis Smiley Show.
658
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:56.659
Alright, in our remaining minutes with Dr.
659
00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:58.780
Jonathan E. Collins of Columbia University.
660
00:38:58.820 --> 00:38:59.079
Dr.
661
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:04.530
Collins, we're talking about Byron Donalds now. Give us your
662
00:39:04.590 --> 00:39:09.489
quick take. Five black governors, including one Republican in Florida.
663
00:39:09.570 --> 00:39:11.449
What does Byron Donalds win? What does it tell us
664
00:39:11.510 --> 00:39:15.059
about black political diversity in America?
665
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:22.349
It tells us that We are, on one hand, very diverse,
666
00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:25.170
but on the other hand, we do have to do
667
00:39:25.309 --> 00:39:26.429
some self-reflecting.
668
00:39:26.489 --> 00:39:29.570
Some of us have to do some self-reflecting. There's irony
669
00:39:29.610 --> 00:39:29.969
to the body.
670
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.800
Donald's election in that he is this Black conservative that
671
00:39:34.940 --> 00:39:40.349
is all about small government, weakening government, ending government programs.
672
00:39:40.829 --> 00:39:46.070
And yet, Byron Donald's life would not be possible without
673
00:39:46.429 --> 00:39:50.659
government programs. He was arrested as a teenager on marijuana
674
00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:54.550
charges and ended up never being convicted because of a
675
00:39:55.329 --> 00:40:00.710
pretrial program that essentially brought him in and prevented him
676
00:40:00.750 --> 00:40:02.289
essentially from going to trial and put him on a
677
00:40:02.329 --> 00:40:07.400
path to a behavioral recovery. He was also convicted of
678
00:40:07.659 --> 00:40:12.500
bank fraud and had his record sealed and expunged through
679
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:17.210
another program that did so for convicted felons. And so
680
00:40:17.230 --> 00:40:21.679
without these types of interventions that support Black folks who
681
00:40:21.699 --> 00:40:25.000
get caught up in the criminal justice system, Byron Donalds
682
00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:27.940
wouldn't be where he is today. But that same politician
683
00:40:28.619 --> 00:40:32.159
distances himself from the types of programs that made his
684
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:35.260
life possible. So I'm glad at the political diversity because
685
00:40:35.539 --> 00:40:37.340
it's good to show that Black people, we have different
686
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:41.719
views and different perspectives. But I'm concerned about a man
687
00:40:41.780 --> 00:40:45.940
who is not reflective of enough of how the policies
688
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.150
that he supports create the kind of harm that would
689
00:40:49.190 --> 00:40:51.219
have made his life totally different.
690
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:52.679
We'll have to leave it there.
691
00:40:52.699 --> 00:40:52.960
Dr.
692
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:56.159
Jonathan Collins of the Teachers College at Columbia University.
693
00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:58.760
Thank you, bro. Where can people go to follow you
694
00:40:58.880 --> 00:40:59.619
and follow your work?
695
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.800
Yeah. Professor Collins on the socials.
696
00:41:06.010 --> 00:41:06.199
Prof.
697
00:41:06.219 --> 00:41:07.630
John Collins on Twitter X.
698
00:41:08.690 --> 00:41:11.010
Look me up. Jonathan thinks if you're looking for my
699
00:41:11.030 --> 00:41:15.429
YouTube content. And of course, a more perfect union.
700
00:41:15.469 --> 00:41:16.469
That's right. That's right.
701
00:41:16.489 --> 00:41:16.929
That's right.
702
00:41:17.610 --> 00:41:19.750
We'd love to see it and love to see you
703
00:41:19.829 --> 00:41:23.030
at the top of the next hour. One Democrat told
704
00:41:23.050 --> 00:41:28.059
the Trump administration to lawyer up. TV judge and Yale-trained
705
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:31.780
attorney Tanya Acker is here to tell us whether that's
706
00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:35.969
a threat, a promise, or a press release. This is
707
00:41:35.989 --> 00:41:36.969
the Tavis Smiley Show.
708
00:41:37.010 --> 00:41:37.750
More when we come forward.