บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ #22 Lance Uggla: The Fundamentals in Building a Billion-Dollar Business

you're aware of politics, economics, war, uh, you know, it's, it's knowing what's going on in the world and showing an interest to develop a relationship and a discussion with somebody around something that they're most interested in. 00:06:00.593 --> 00:06:28.019 And so I found throughout my business career that, easy leadership skill or, um, relationship building skill is probably a better word, which is an important part of leadership, was that by being aware, I was able to sit next to anybody in a meeting, a dinner table, an event, or walk into an event and find some common ground to begin a dialogue. 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:33.959 And that discussion develops your first sense of relationship with somebody. 00:06:34.139 --> 00:06:39.509 And then from that, you developed the opportunity to do business together. 00:06:40.550 --> 00:06:44.120 You were the one who taught me, um, be interested and be interesting. 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:49.699 And I remember when we were talking about music, you're like, do you know like, like how the, the, the band nickelback, how they got their name? 00:06:49.699 --> 00:06:51.439 And you shared, you shared that. 00:06:51.444 --> 00:06:56.180 And I remember, and, and, and it just really landed for me the importance of finding that common ground. 00:06:56.180 --> 00:06:58.310 Like be curious, ask questions. 00:06:58.519 --> 00:06:59.149 'cause you never know. 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.339 We, we often meet people as their surface. 00:07:01.339 --> 00:07:04.819 We don't know the submerged part, their passions, their hobbies, their interests. 00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:08.360 The more curious we are, the more we can find those connection points. 00:07:08.613 --> 00:07:09.483 Know exactly. 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:18.290 Um, relationship building you just mentioned, I just wanna pivot there for a second because, you know, we live in a world of AI acceleration, uh, transformation. 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:23.569 And I think it's still very much, you know, human and ai, not human or ai. 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:32.329 How do you cultivate, you know, what advice would you give people about how to cultivate relationships, um, in an AI world? 00:07:32.737 --> 00:07:36.783 Well, I'd say the first thing that I think's increasingly important today. 00:07:37.262 --> 00:08:01.380 Doesn't matter who you are or what age you are, but understand the strengths and weaknesses of the AI agent and the creation of that agent and how it's gonna impact, uh, your particular role or your company or your day-to-day activities. 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:04.620 We're already already using AI in everything we do. 00:08:04.620 --> 00:08:12.721 We use it when we get into an Uber, and the Uber, uh, you know, chooses the route to drive us. 00:08:13.290 --> 00:08:28.050 Um, we also, um, uh, you know, use AI when we get onto our, uh, music in our car and Spotify's suggesting a song for us to say, or a new playlist. 00:08:28.471 --> 00:08:37.410 Um, we're using it,

um, to help, uh, spell check a letter, uh, help us write a speech. 00:08:37.620 --> 00:08:50.850 We're using it for so many different things and that, uh, you know, really does, um, you know, um, uh, allow you to learn and develop the strengths of these new technologies. 00:08:51.061 --> 00:09:10.770 And I found through my whole career, whether it was the mobile phone, email, the cloud, um, any of the, uh, uh, object oriented programming, uh, you know, uh, you know, fast chips, you know, so many things have changed throughout my career. 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:17.341 I was always one that just said, I have to understand the capabilities of the technology around me. 00:09:17.730 --> 00:09:21.030 And, um, so I find it's the same with ai. 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:22.951 Make sure you're a user. 00:09:22.951 --> 00:09:30.390 Make sure you're developing and understand and the strengths and weaknesses of it, and then applying it to the opportunity that you have. 00:09:30.780 --> 00:09:34.831 And that opportunity can be, uh, very, uh, very broad. 00:09:35.658 --> 00:09:36.139 I love that. 00:09:36.139 --> 00:09:46.219 I understand the capabilities, and again, in one of our conversations, you quoted the CO of Microsoft, Satter and Adela, where you said, you know, be it a know it all, a know, learn it all, not a know it all. 00:09:46.428 --> 00:09:49.278 You know, be in that constant pursuit of, of, of learning. 00:09:49.849 --> 00:10:00.229 Um, okay, so one of the lessons, if I go to the second lesson that I love to discuss today, you, you talked about a strong vision, have a strong vision, and regularly communicated. 00:10:00.649 --> 00:10:05.328 Um, and really because it, this, this helps make people feel part of something bigger. 00:10:05.778 --> 00:10:10.668 When you think of, I wanna, what the piece I wanna kind of pull the thread on here is regularly communicated. 00:10:11.328 --> 00:10:12.708 What do you mean by regularly? 00:10:12.708 --> 00:10:14.958 Like, what is the cadence and what are the vehicles? 00:10:14.958 --> 00:10:16.894 'cause there's so many vehicles available to us now. 00:10:17.548 --> 00:10:23.099 well first off, you're describing around the whole setting of vision, et cetera. 00:10:23.369 --> 00:10:23.668 Yeah. 00:10:23.668 --> 00:10:26.219 So that was, it was, yeah, I think it's had the shared vision. 00:10:26.472 --> 00:10:26.952 Yeah. 00:10:27.253 --> 00:10:27.552 Yeah. 00:10:27.552 --> 00:10:39.403 I'm, um, I, I guess I think what's really important is that, um, if you're a leader, I think the word compelling is really important. 00:10:39.852 --> 00:10:47.773 Can you create a compelling vision and then repeat it often because it has to become second nature. 00:10:48.222 --> 00:10:49.572 You know, people have to believe it. 00:10:49.577 --> 00:10:59.562 It can't be just a fleeting platitude that you put out, and then it's, you know, it's, um, it's there, but it's not reinforced. 00:10:59.923 --> 00:11:00.462 To me. 00:11:00.462

--> 00:11:20.623 It's really important that, uh, the, uh, uh, vision, the vision statement and everything around, uh, um, vision needs to be repeated often, and it needs to be, what I would say, I think the most important words I ever used around vision is, do we have a compelling vision? 00:11:21.102 --> 00:11:31.363 Um, I also think that people perform better when they feel that they're a part of something bigger than they are themselves, 00:11:31.369 --> 00:11:31.938 Mm. 00:11:32.413 --> 00:11:32.863 right? 00:11:32.863 --> 00:11:37.273 When you create a compelling vision, you're encompassing the people that work for you. 00:11:37.812 --> 00:11:44.293 And from that, uh, you, uh, you create something that people can really kinda get into. 00:11:44.653 --> 00:11:53.082 And I, I, I love it when I feel that, um, I'm leading something where people want to be a part of, to make it even better. 00:11:53.413 --> 00:12:13.302 And, um, so I don't think, um, you know, my own personal ambition is always that, um, you know, when you have a vision, it, it should be stated, but it's, um, you know, it's something that stretches people. 00:12:13.692 --> 00:12:22.663 It's compelling, it's, uh, giving people, it's giving people this, um, you know, this opportunity to believe alongside you. 00:12:23.465 --> 00:12:24.095 I love that. 00:12:24.095 --> 00:12:25.174 Believe alongside you. 00:12:25.174 --> 00:12:32.195 And when you say repeat it often, I, I kind of think it's about being the CRO as well, the chief repetition or the chief reinforcement officer. 00:12:33.154 --> 00:12:36.154 What do you think, how important is it in terms of the medium? 00:12:36.154 --> 00:12:39.154 Is it, is it through emails, town halls, like in person? 00:12:39.424 --> 00:12:45.544 How do you, I mean, do you give much in thought to the, the, the vehicle by which you communicate the message? 00:12:46.441 --> 00:12:51.421 Um, I think use all forms of communication all the time. 00:12:51.691 --> 00:13:13.860 Um, and so of course, you know, review the year, uh, quarterly updates, uh, your quarterly, your annual budget, and then quarterly review your town halls where you're just, you know, giving people a, a feeling for what's going on in the firm and what's going on in the business around us. 00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:25.410 How are we doing, um, our employee health checks, our, you know, so many ways to communicate with your employees, your regular reviews, your review process. 00:13:25.561 --> 00:13:34.321 So, to me, I, I, I, I wanna use all forms of communication all the time, and, uh, I think that's really important. 00:13:35.048 --> 00:13:36.818 And how do you know people get it? 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:44.239 Like, uh, how do you, how do you know that, that, you know, how does it come back to you in a way that you're like, yeah, people understand the vision we're on. 00:13:44.937 --> 00:13:47.517 I think you have to, I think surveying is really important. 00:13:47.517 --> 00:13:49.616

So I, I, I like regular surveying. 00:13:49.917 --> 00:14:02.547 Um, I used, um, uh, short, um, quarterly kind of pulses where you'd ask three or four questions that you could get 60, 70, 80% of the population would answer them. 00:14:02.636 --> 00:14:03.386 They were easy. 00:14:03.386 --> 00:14:06.537 When you answered one question, you didn't have to scroll down. 00:14:06.537 --> 00:14:08.456 It immediately went to the next question. 00:14:08.456 --> 00:14:10.047 It was easy to use. 00:14:10.047 --> 00:14:20.067 It was multiple choice, and you could quickly, within, by the next day of the survey being completed, you could give feedback and be honest. 00:14:20.067 --> 00:14:22.106 Say, look, we really, I can't believe it. 00:14:22.106 --> 00:14:28.437 We scored so low on communication and I'm working so hard on it, so clearly I'm doing something wrong. 00:14:28.706 --> 00:14:30.596 I'm gonna ask you another question. 00:14:31.287 --> 00:14:34.856 How would you like communication to be improved? 00:14:35.576 --> 00:14:38.937 Send me an email, send me a text, send me a WhatsApp. 00:14:39.267 --> 00:14:44.067 Give me some idea of how I can be better as a leader in communicating with you. 00:14:44.336 --> 00:14:50.397 And, and so, you know, take what you get honestly and use it to be even better. 00:14:50.576 --> 00:14:52.136 And I, I think that's really important. 00:14:52.712 --> 00:14:53.013 Yeah. 00:14:53.043 --> 00:14:53.673 I, I love that. 00:14:53.673 --> 00:14:58.802 And I remember in one of our conversations, you saying as well that the shared vision comes back to you through shareholders and stakeholders. 00:14:58.802 --> 00:15:04.592 You know, you find that the messaging is coming back, so, you know, it is, it is being, yeah. 00:15:04.592 --> 00:15:06.842 It, um, communicated out as well. 00:15:07.205 --> 00:15:12.304 I would also say, I know it's working'cause the performance of the company starts to show it. 00:15:12.394 --> 00:15:19.804 Or your, the Glassdoor reports on people wanting to work at the company, people wanting to refer the company. 00:15:19.804 --> 00:15:25.264 All these things are great indicators of your, uh, you know, your success. 00:15:25.832 --> 00:15:34.863 And that shared vision, um, I, you know, to, to coin the phrase and whether I like this one or not, it's, you know, it's, it's about a, a leadership team all rowing in the same direction. 00:15:35.373 --> 00:15:47.398 Um, uh, if, how do you ensure that, that all your leadership team, you know, if they don't agree, but when they leave the room, everyone is brought in, invested in, and, and aligned with the ambition. 00:15:48.037 --> 00:15:59.517 Well, I think that's a core, you know, strategic, uh, property or values of the firm in terms of, you know, we lead together as one. 00:15:59.907 --> 00:16:06.417 If we have, you know, you, you've gotta be strong as a leader on alignment and getting people aligned. 00:16:06.657 --> 00:16:15.307 Like, if you've got five out of nine of your leadership team aligned or split five four, that's, that's gonna be dangerous. 00:16:15.336 --> 00:16:18.787 'cause those, you're gonna get mixed messages going back out in your firm. 00:16:19.027 --> 00:16:24.157 You need to align the leadership team, um, reach agreement and consensus. 00:16:24.397 --> 00:16:27.756 If you don't have consensus, uh, is non-negotiable. 00:16:28.177 --> 00:16:34.267 It's, we've made the decision and it's up to you to lead, lead with that as your front step. 00:16:34.356 --> 00:16:41.557 And if you are negative towards the, your leadership decisions, uh, that's just unacceptable. 00:16:41.706 --> 00:16:44.616 It's not, it's not, it's not possible. 00:16:44.616 --> 00:16:45.846 It's not acceptable. 00:16:46.057 --> 00:16:50.226 It's not, it's not gonna work, uh, for you to be successful. 00:16:51.260 --> 00:17:03.291 And, and what you shared there about, you know, we lead together as one, you know, making sure the values, like the, the values underpin the, you know, if there's a certain ambition, making sure that the values underpin the behaviours that you wanna see observed. 00:17:04.267 --> 00:17:05.586 Yes, a hundred percent. 00:17:06.394 --> 00:17:08.164 Okay, so audacious goals. 00:17:08.164 --> 00:17:10.085 I wanna move over onto the next lesson here. 00:17:10.144 --> 00:17:17.615 And, um, you know, you always, you've said that you always ask everyone on the team to give you one wildly important goals. 00:17:17.615 --> 00:17:21.035 The weeks or the bee hags, you know, the big hairy, audacious goals. 00:17:21.454 --> 00:17:24.934 And, and I love what you said,'cause you said it's important to dream where you are going. 00:17:25.144 --> 00:17:29.914 If you're dreaming, you know, you're gonna go up three steps, you're likely to go up three steps, but why not dream? 00:17:29.914 --> 00:17:31.654 You're gonna go all the way to the top. 00:17:32.015 --> 00:17:36.125 So I'd love to hear about how you, you know, audacious. 00:17:36.605 --> 00:17:38.525 How, how do you, how do you embody that? 00:17:38.823 --> 00:17:50.891 No, I think, asking people for A-B-H-A-G or asking people to, you know, have a, you know, their one wildly important goal, it, it encourages bold thinking. 00:17:51.371 --> 00:17:53.621 And I, I, I think that's really important. 00:17:54.010 --> 00:18:02.471 It also, um, I think some alignment of individual purpose with company direction. 00:18:02.651 --> 00:18:11.171 So I'm, I'm in a company, you ask me for that wildly important goal, and I say, I'd like to achieve X excess quarter. 00:18:11.171 --> 00:18:22.391 And it's a real stretch, you know, it's aligned to the vision and the person's trying to overreach, extend themselves, take themselves to a new level. 00:18:22.661 --> 00:18:44.111 And, and I think when you start to do that across an entire firm, you actually, um, you actually start to create a firm that's an overachiever itself because the combination of that behaviour

leads you to a really, uh, exciting, successful place. 00:18:44.560 --> 00:18:57.131 And, uh, I've had great success in, uh, using BH or wigs as, uh, they were, uh, named, uh, in helping me lead and direct people. 00:18:58.015 --> 00:19:00.654 Um, I think emotions are contagious as well. 00:19:00.654 --> 00:19:09.654 There's an emotional contagion piece here and that encouraging bold thinking that's the ripple, not just from the leadership team, but then ripples out and cascades throughout the organisation. 00:19:09.886 --> 00:19:10.366 Yes. 00:19:10.366 --> 00:19:24.136 And if you don't believe in, uh, your destination boldly right then, um, you know, you've, uh, you can't expect extraordinary outcomes, right? 00:19:24.166 --> 00:19:31.876 Like, if you're expecting extraordinary outcomes, then you gotta define yourself boldly, right? 00:19:31.876 --> 00:19:35.896 Extraordinary doesn't come where it says, you know, we want to grow 7% this year. 00:19:35.896 --> 00:19:41.626 Expand margin a couple points, uh, get to 10% earnings growth. 00:19:41.876 --> 00:19:42.896 That's not that bold. 00:19:43.737 --> 00:19:48.656 Say our, we are expected to grow eight to 10%. 00:19:48.994 --> 00:19:53.164 we see the market opportunity to accelerate through 10. 00:19:54.125 --> 00:19:55.355 It's much more exciting. 00:19:55.444 --> 00:20:01.565 Now, you might not, but it might bring you to the top of your range and you could end up at nine and that wouldn't be the worst outcome. 00:20:02.096 --> 00:20:06.626 Yeah, well, excitement to me, even here, it, there's a passion and an enthusiasm behind that. 00:20:06.626 --> 00:20:13.737 And you used the word extraordinary and it made me think of the All Blacks, the New Zealand rugby team, and they said they're ordinary people doing extraordinary things. 00:20:13.977 --> 00:20:24.356 You know, they're not in any way different to the English rugby team or the French, but they have this culture and a value set that means they perform at the very, very best levels. 00:20:25.457 --> 00:20:25.757 Yeah. 00:20:26.576 --> 00:20:34.767 And, um, the, the other, my cha my one of my sons recently, I think at school, you know, he was talking about the word impossible and it's like, I'm possible. 00:20:34.767 --> 00:20:36.386 And I'm like, yeah, nothing's impossible. 00:20:36.386 --> 00:20:48.596 It just hasn't been, you know, when, when we had the marathon runner, Sebastian, and I'm gonna forget his surname, uh, the London Marathon runner last week, he was one of the first people, well, the first person to do a sub two hour marathon. 00:20:49.017 --> 00:20:52.826 So, and, and people would've beforehand said like, that's not possible. 00:20:52.946 --> 00:20:53.997 Not to Sebastian. 00:20:55.025 --> 00:20:55.444 No. 00:20:56.194 --> 00:20:57.815 And that's, that's fantastic. 00:20:57.815 --> 00:21:03.755 'cause that's, uh, that's somebody dreaming, dreaming to do something that we didn't think was gonna happen. 00:21:04.085 --> 00:21:07.174 So it's, I, I, I love to see that. 00:21:07.558 --> 00:21:16.169 the third lesson I wanna cover is about leadership and risk taking, because you said leadership means taking a gamble, but whilst weighing the odds. 00:21:16.409 --> 00:21:20.128 So you'd never take casino odds, but I will make bold moves. 00:21:20.308 --> 00:21:26.519 So, as a former trader, there's, you know, there's, whether you are risk is hardwired in or it's something you've cultivated. 00:21:27.058 --> 00:21:27.989 How do you do that? 00:21:27.989 --> 00:21:30.509 How do you take the gamble whilst taking the odds? 00:21:30.509 --> 00:21:32.578 Like, what does, what does taking risks look like to you? 00:21:32.761 --> 00:21:35.041 Well, it's always calculated risk first off. 00:21:35.041 --> 00:21:36.571 So that to me is really important. 00:21:36.571 --> 00:21:38.221 It's never recklessness. 00:21:38.761 --> 00:21:42.571 Um, so, you know, you mentioned never casino odds. 00:21:42.571 --> 00:21:45.662 I believe that, uh, that's not gonna help. 00:21:46.021 --> 00:21:50.102 Um, and it's that intelligent risk versus gambling. 00:21:50.132 --> 00:21:52.112 I'm never thinking you should gamble. 00:21:52.442 --> 00:22:00.511 Uh, but at some point you gotta press yourself and see if you can, you know, take the next, uh, you know, the next opportunity. 00:22:00.751 --> 00:22:05.942 So you weigh your odds carefully and, um, you're willing to act decisively. 00:22:06.970 --> 00:22:07.869 Yeah, I love that. 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:13.750 Willing to act decisively, always calculated, never reckless, and I'm assuming it, it's like a muscle. 00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:18.640 The more you exercise it, then you've got a pattern of like, well, look, I can look back. 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:22.009 When I took risks there, it worked, and that's, that can give you the confidence to do it again. 00:22:22.905 --> 00:22:23.175 It. 00:22:23.205 --> 00:22:24.375 Yeah, no, exactly. 00:22:24.375 --> 00:22:30.105 I, I think the courage, uh, um, in leadership can never, never be blind. 00:22:30.465 --> 00:22:33.230 Um, you know, you have it, it's gotta be informed. 00:22:33.655 --> 00:22:35.365 how important is intuition to you? 00:22:35.693 --> 00:22:41.648 Oh, I think it's, I think it's, um, not available to everybody, but uh, if you have it, use it. 00:22:42.387 --> 00:22:42.837 Hmm. 00:22:43.438 --> 00:22:44.998 And how does your intuition speak to you? 00:22:44.998 --> 00:22:47.127 Is it like in the shower when you're going out for a walk? 00:22:47.127 --> 00:22:49.498 Do you have to actively connect with it 00:22:49.619 --> 00:22:53.160 There all the time, all the time, every second of the day. 00:22:54.355 --> 00:22:54.806 Yeah. 00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:06.960 it's, it's just looking forward, looking for that grandchild to fall, fall into the wa, into the pool, uh, the new puppy to chew the new carpet to. 00:23:07.454 --> 00:23:21.930 It's just, it's just, you know, it's just gotta be this

constant ability to look forward at things around you and then, you know, use that intuition to move, move before others move and gain an advantage. 00:23:23.092 --> 00:23:25.551 Because with our intuition, it's not come from nowhere. 00:23:25.551 --> 00:23:29.777 Like that's it's accumulation of all our experiences and everything to date. 00:23:29.844 --> 00:23:30.713 Well, yeah, that too. 00:23:30.713 --> 00:23:38.753 That's your, your learnings definitely help, but then you have to, you have to then use it and, you know, make the call. 00:23:38.753 --> 00:23:39.233 There's no use. 00:23:39.233 --> 00:23:41.663 Having the intuition and keeping it all to yourself. 00:23:42.023 --> 00:23:49.469 Um, you know, and, uh, it's paying attention to things and grabbing that edge when you see it. 00:23:49.679 --> 00:23:54.909 And it, I think, I think it comes natural to many people, but not all. 00:23:55.490 --> 00:23:59.570 And the grabbing the edge, like how do you know when you are onto something? 00:23:59.570 --> 00:24:01.191 What happens for you physiologically? 00:24:01.191 --> 00:24:05.361 Like how do you know when, like this is a bold move that I wanna act decisively on. 00:24:05.878 --> 00:24:09.868 I do get a gut feel on something and I'm not afraid to act on it. 00:24:10.318 --> 00:24:17.278 And when I do, I, I, I kind of first make sure the math works. 00:24:18.028 --> 00:24:22.229 The science art always comes second to me. 00:24:22.618 --> 00:24:27.479 I, the math has to work the science and then the art can follow. 00:24:27.628 --> 00:24:35.608 And the art is all the softer skills around, around the, um, the strategy. 00:24:36.689 --> 00:24:38.878 But if the math doesn't work, I won't go there. 00:24:39.778 --> 00:24:42.778 And you can see that a lot of times the math tells you enough. 00:24:42.838 --> 00:24:49.499 And if people are showing you, well, this comp, this is gonna grow at a hundred percent this year, 200 next year, 300 the following year. 00:24:49.919 --> 00:24:57.598 And they show you some hockey stick and they're gonna expand margins threefold and be highly profitable and pay off the debt. 00:24:57.598 --> 00:25:00.538 And one and a half years, I gonna go, really? 00:25:00.719 --> 00:25:01.949 Let's work on that math. 00:25:02.159 --> 00:25:03.118 Let's look at the tam. 00:25:03.118 --> 00:25:04.259 Let's look at the pricing. 00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:05.459 Let's look at inflation. 00:25:05.459 --> 00:25:14.159 Let's look at debt levels, interest rate levels, economies, war people, ai, where's, where's your moat? 00:25:14.429 --> 00:25:15.868 What's protecting this? 00:25:16.558 --> 00:25:19.019 So, no, I wanna look at all that. 00:25:19.463 --> 00:25:20.334 Great question there. 00:25:20.334 --> 00:25:21.084 Where is your moat? 00:25:21.084 --> 00:25:22.193 What is protecting you? 00:25:22.584 --> 00:25:25.614 Um, okay, so next lesson. 00:25:25.703 --> 00:25:37.523 Um, and you used Formula One as an analogy, and I love, since Drive to Survive came out, I, I've been a Formula One fan and you said that in Formula One, it's rare for a new driver to be on the podium in, in race one. 00:25:37.584 --> 00:25:44.784 It's about that succinct, sustained success takes time and requires discipline and consistent investment in capability. 00:25:45.324 --> 00:25:46.314 Speak more to that. 00:25:46.842 --> 00:26:00.311 Yeah, I guess when I think about high performance and the race car driver would be a good one to look at that consistency, discipline, and a regular investment in the capability. 00:26:00.311 --> 00:26:16.332 And that driver, it's fitness, it's training, it's diets, health, it's um, uh, speed, um, it's reflex handling the, you know, the, the GForce like it's training. 00:26:16.902 --> 00:26:35.442 So, um, when they start to, um, be able to achieve what it takes to get on the podium, they've done that because of practise, qualifying, racing and everything else around that. 00:26:35.531 --> 00:26:41.291 And, um, so I, I think there's no shortcuts, um, to sustain success. 00:26:41.561 --> 00:26:50.442 You know, if you wanna have sustained success, no shortcuts, consistency, discipline, and investment, that's what it takes. 00:26:51.538 --> 00:27:04.948 And then to go back to, you know, what we discussed in our previous episode about the measurement as well, you know, measuring the things that will, um, and I think it's so important, as you said, like, you know, your strategies, what, you know, what are the things that make your outcome true. 00:27:05.637 --> 00:27:11.383 And often we measure the, you know, we, we look at the outcome, but what are the inputs that make that outcome, you know, enable you to realise that goal. 00:27:11.943 --> 00:27:14.013 next one, be involved in the detail. 00:27:14.163 --> 00:27:15.394 Don't over manage. 00:27:15.453 --> 00:27:18.423 Don't under manage, but you've gotta know what's going on. 00:27:18.814 --> 00:27:20.824 How do you manage that tightrope? 00:27:20.854 --> 00:27:22.324 Well, again, my words tightrope. 00:27:22.324 --> 00:27:27.183 They may, it may not, may be very easy for you, but so you don't, you know, you're just in at the right level. 00:27:27.529 --> 00:27:33.200 if you don't stay close to the detail, um, you're not gonna know what's going on. 00:27:33.529 --> 00:27:37.039 So you need to be close to the detail, especially if there's a problem. 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:42.289 Um, but don't suffocate your teams, and I think suffocation is the key word there. 00:27:42.829 --> 00:27:46.460 Um, you talked about both the extremes. 00:27:46.490 --> 00:27:48.650 Overmanaging under managing. 00:27:49.069 --> 00:27:51.890 I think overmanaging kills ownership. 00:27:52.819 --> 00:27:54.470 So nobody's got ownership. 00:27:54.470 --> 00:28:04.700 You're, you're overmanaging under manage managing creates drift and you're gonna drift from, uh, from what, what you wanna achieve. 00:28:04.789 --> 00:28:10.940 So the art is in knowing

enough without taking over. 00:28:11.327 --> 00:28:12.678 You need to know enough. 00:28:13.488 --> 00:28:21.228 You need to know how to encourage, how to question, how to help, but don't take over. 00:28:21.587 --> 00:28:23.327 As soon as you take over, it's your problem. 00:28:23.786 --> 00:28:31.016 Brad Levy, who's obviously our mutual friend, he speaks about, um, his analogies, the, the sea playing, the surfer, the snorkeler, and the scuba diver. 00:28:31.375 --> 00:28:33.115 And he is like, you can't be in the coral all the time. 00:28:33.115 --> 00:28:38.425 If you're scuba diving too much, then you know you're not managing effectively, but you've gotta know which altitude. 00:28:38.425 --> 00:28:41.711 You know, different situations require a different, a different altitude. 00:28:42.425 --> 00:28:42.935 Yep. 00:28:42.965 --> 00:28:44.135 That's, that's good. 00:28:44.135 --> 00:28:46.746 Uh, good, uh, description as well. 00:28:47.258 --> 00:28:48.667 Well, he loves his metaphors. 00:28:48.758 --> 00:28:50.198 Um, okay. 00:28:50.258 --> 00:29:04.298 You you at, at market and IHS market, you know, you, you, there was a lot of, you did a lot of acquisitions and you also spoke about organic growth is where the real value lies and the importance of making it a priority again, can you elaborate on that? 00:29:04.633 --> 00:29:11.179 Well, to tell the truth, if you really go to the core, how I think true value, um, isn't bought. 00:29:12.318 --> 00:29:13.159 It's built. 00:29:13.444 --> 00:29:14.615 That's important. 00:29:14.944 --> 00:29:19.714 And, you know, organic growth is sustainable. 00:29:19.714 --> 00:29:20.855 It's long term. 00:29:20.855 --> 00:29:25.265 It's the always the most valuable in terms of your business multiples. 00:29:25.654 --> 00:29:28.474 And you know, it's reflecting your real strength. 00:29:28.474 --> 00:29:35.404 It's uh, you know, your product, it's your people, um, your customers and their trust in you. 00:29:35.855 --> 00:29:44.734 And so for me, being able to build organically is always, uh, the most important aspect of growth. 00:29:45.845 --> 00:30:01.710 Now, if you are reaching maximum TAM and you need to either develop new products organically or staple on new products that you create in house organically, that's outstanding. 00:30:02.099 --> 00:30:11.609 But where you're feeling the best way to leverage your strength with your customers is to acquire and have inorganic growth. 00:30:11.910 --> 00:30:12.359 Fine. 00:30:12.390 --> 00:30:27.599 It's just, you better then be, develop the muscle set for doing acquisitions and integration and blending cultures, um, you know, more than one company because they don't all come with the same culture, 00:30:27.980 --> 00:30:28.430 Mm. 00:30:28.740 --> 00:30:29.220 right? 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:30.839 It just doesn't happen. 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:55.769 I always use the analogy of, you know, um, growing up in Canada versus my friends growing up in America, if you

were Greek and you came to, uh, Canada, uh, and Canada was playing Greece in basketball, in Toronto, the Greeks could still, especially first and even second generation, even third, could be cheering with Greek flags. 00:30:56.076 --> 00:30:57.217 In the us. 00:30:57.336 --> 00:31:04.416 when a, when somebody comes from Greece or Italy or Bulgaria or China or Japan, they come to the us. 00:31:04.507 --> 00:31:05.826 They wanna be Americans. 00:31:05.878 --> 00:31:06.328 Mm. 00:31:06.817 --> 00:31:15.967 And so they all wave American flags, different culture, different, different, different, uh, um, uh, strategy per se for countries. 00:31:15.967 --> 00:31:20.317 Canada embraces a melting pot multiculturalism. 00:31:20.586 --> 00:31:25.656 Everybody gets to be, um, who they are and who they want to be. 00:31:26.106 --> 00:31:30.846 Um, whereas coming to America, it's about becoming American. 00:31:31.747 --> 00:31:36.007 And actually, most people that go to America, they want to become American. 00:31:36.217 --> 00:31:37.537 They're excited about it. 00:31:37.717 --> 00:31:43.807 Fastest growth, best tech, fastest food, Amazon Prime. 00:31:43.807 --> 00:31:46.656 Now I can get everything right now in two seconds. 00:31:46.656 --> 00:31:48.007 Everything's available to me. 00:31:48.366 --> 00:31:50.586 And it's, it's just, it is just different. 00:31:50.737 --> 00:31:52.807 It's not better, not worse, just different. 00:31:53.166 --> 00:32:09.696 And so, um, you know, I, I'm of the view that, um, I really want to embrace where I came from in Canada, which is, was a melting pot of so many different things. 00:32:10.416 --> 00:32:26.737 And what Canada's done is it lead, it's led people to be able to live together from many different backgrounds in a very positive way and with a lot of respect, inclusivity, uh, you know, built into the formulas. 00:32:27.734 --> 00:32:42.345 When you talk about that blending cultures in an organisation, I suppose what I was curious about is how do you make sure that those cultures get blended well, like when you've made an acquisition, and where do you see people where it's not working out? 00:32:42.345 --> 00:32:45.525 Like what are they doing that that means that that blend just doesn't happen? 00:32:46.409 --> 00:32:47.669 Well, I go back to what I said. 00:32:47.669 --> 00:32:53.969 I allow, I allow the different flags to be flown in the company and to be proud of where you came from. 00:32:54.298 --> 00:32:56.489 I don't try to erase that. 00:32:56.848 --> 00:33:05.608 Um, it's okay that, uh, you're from a, you know, you're, you, you develop your culture in a company that we've acquired. 00:33:05.608 --> 00:33:07.199 I don't expect you to rera it. 00:33:07.558 --> 00:33:10.078 What I care is common values. 00:33:10.487 --> 00:33:11.086 Yeah, I love 00:33:11.398 --> 00:33:14.128 Values is the common layer. 00:33:14.608 --> 00:33:15.479 The cultures. 00:33:15.568 --> 00:33:21.673 I can have many cultures, but one

set of values that's really important to me. 00:33:22.587 --> 00:33:28.018 And, and again, if things were to not go well, that's where there isn't a common set of values. 00:33:28.018 --> 00:33:28.468 I'm assuming. 00:33:28.468 --> 00:33:34.528 That's where, I'm not saying IHS, but where you've seen other companies, where they've acquired and things, it, it, it hasn't blended. 00:33:34.528 --> 00:33:36.268 Do you, do you see that, that the, the 00:33:36.397 --> 00:33:39.596 Or well, sometimes people might wanna have those common values. 00:33:39.596 --> 00:33:45.086 They just haven't been, they haven't been led to a common interface like that. 00:33:45.416 --> 00:33:54.537 And therefore they start to develop, uh, bad behaviours or, you know, you're not communicating well enough, you're not updating enough. 00:33:54.537 --> 00:33:56.096 People become insecure. 00:33:56.666 --> 00:33:58.832 People start seeing that you're taking things away. 00:33:59.386 --> 00:34:00.797 You have to explain everything. 00:34:00.797 --> 00:34:27.706 Integration is all about early and continued communication and, uh, and being clear on how these two companies are coming together and what the outcome's gonna look like and how, how does that impact you as a, you know, it doesn't matter if you're, you know, in reception or you are chief data scientist, or you are, um, you know, selling a product. 00:34:27.797 --> 00:34:29.956 How's this impacting you? 00:34:30.385 --> 00:34:30.835 Mm. 00:34:31.277 --> 00:34:31.702 You wanna know? 00:34:32.574 --> 00:34:43.224 Yeah, I, I, I think it really speaks to, you know, we, the word communication's come up a lot today, but that early in continued communication to avoid the water cooler conversations or the unhelpful ones. 00:34:43.224 --> 00:34:46.974 So, you know, there's that transparency is equity, like just, you know, speak to people. 00:34:47.394 --> 00:34:50.574 Um, so talk about speaking to people. 00:34:50.605 --> 00:35:02.934 Um, uh, I wanted to pivot to, you know, your shareholders, because your shareholders are some of your most important customers, and you said, so you better be well prepared to go deep when asked the question. 00:35:03.204 --> 00:35:10.465 So my question there, how do you prepare, you know, how do you know what's important to them and, you know, what does it give you when you come from that level of preparation? 00:35:10.713 --> 00:35:27.632 Well, I, I think it gives you credibility so you know, the more prepared you are and the more substance you have and your ability to demonstrate your depth of knowledge, that's really important. 00:35:27.632 --> 00:35:35.373 When you have shareholders that are also customers,'cause it means they understand your product, your business, and what you're serving up. 00:35:35.793 --> 00:35:49.952 You know, if you're serving, if you're a chef and you're serving dinner to 25 chefs, that's different than serving dinner to just 25 people or 25 people that like food, right?

00:35:50.163 --> 00:36:29.253 Um, so I, I think understanding your audience, being prepared, making sure you have depth in your substance, then you're gonna have credibility and shareholders, stakeholders, um, you know, deserve accountability and deserve for you to be accountable, uh, to them and to demonstrate, uh, to them, uh, you know, your performance, your value, your profitability, your growth, your challenges, your problems, you know, you, you need to, uh, and, and honesty is really important. 00:36:29.313 --> 00:36:33.092 Honesty, humility, all play an important role here. 00:36:33.753 --> 00:36:34.202 Yeah. 00:36:34.538 --> 00:36:37.833 And I, and I suppose the honesty is being realistic with expectations. 00:36:37.893 --> 00:36:42.842 Like when it was COVID and, you know, the market was, was a little bit of turmoil. 00:36:42.842 --> 00:36:48.242 Like, be honest, and I remember you said, you know, give pe then you'd give like, you know, some of the investor different scenarios. 00:36:48.663 --> 00:36:54.452 Um,'cause you didn't, there was so many data points there were unavailable and, uh, it, it was uncharted territory. 00:36:55.065 --> 00:36:56.534 Yes, yes. 00:36:57.208 --> 00:37:00.898 And you said as well, when we talk about shareholders, I wanna talk about the board. 00:37:00.898 --> 00:37:03.478 You said, you know, never leave a board outcome to chance. 00:37:03.929 --> 00:37:06.298 Um, it, how do you do that? 00:37:06.298 --> 00:37:09.239 Do you have a lot of pres syndication before board meetings? 00:37:09.298 --> 00:37:11.539 Is it again, does it speak how, how do, how do you do that? 00:37:12.072 --> 00:37:27.552 I think if the, what you're gonna present is complex, then you should try to find time for individual board members or small groups of board members to bring them along in their understanding of that before you get there. 00:37:28.331 --> 00:37:41.621 So, you know, if you are, forward and you're gonna show up, uh, with a big acquisition or merger with Toyota, I don't think you'd just pop up at the board with this idea. 00:37:41.891 --> 00:37:42.251 Right? 00:37:43.001 --> 00:38:04.362 And if your IHS market and your focused on data and information, you decide that you're gonna become a broker or a asset manager, um, you better have a really good set of reasons and understanding on why you might want to do that. 00:38:04.704 --> 00:38:10.614 And, uh, so to me, I, I do think that, uh, I wouldn't, I don't just show up. 00:38:11.105 --> 00:38:11.434 Yeah. 00:38:11.494 --> 00:38:13.474 No unexpected surprises then. 00:38:13.835 --> 00:38:14.195 No. 00:38:14.795 --> 00:38:18.514 Um, and for the last, um,'cause we're gonna do 10 lessons today. 00:38:18.784 --> 00:38:20.405 Um, we've gone through nine. 00:38:20.405 --> 00:38:23.945 I was gonna ask you to give me a number between one and 250. 00:38:24.335 --> 00:38:29.105 Uh, so this is gonna be a complete, um, we dunno what's coming, but what number would you choose from your

book? 00:38:29.782 --> 00:38:30.501 Nine. 00:38:31.070 --> 00:38:31.489 Nine. 00:38:31.489 --> 00:38:32.480 Why did you choose Nine? 00:38:32.539 --> 00:38:33.260 Intuition? 00:38:33.260 --> 00:38:33.619 Or 00:38:33.699 --> 00:38:34.449 like the number. 00:38:34.730 --> 00:38:36.110 Yeah, I was thinking, is that a favourite number? 00:38:36.139 --> 00:38:39.867 Okay, so number nine is, oh, we've already done it. 00:38:39.867 --> 00:38:43.108 Okay, so get, which is about taking it 99. 00:38:43.617 --> 00:38:44.757 So it's all the nines, right? 00:38:44.757 --> 00:38:45.268 Here we go. 00:38:45.268 --> 00:38:47.487 Let's see what 99 brings us. 00:38:47.929 --> 00:38:48.440 Okay. 00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:54.590 If you find yourself pushing against a failing outcome, you have to know how to adjust. 00:38:55.152 --> 00:39:06.327 So, you know, your, your, um, you know, if you find yourself in a situation and you know, uh, you're not gonna be successful in your outcome. 00:39:06.985 --> 00:39:11.186 You can't, you, you gotta adjust, you gotta make adjustments. 00:39:11.695 --> 00:39:13.885 You gotta step back and reassess. 00:39:14.126 --> 00:39:38.065 You have to, um, you know, make a decision to, uh, shelve, shelve the project, make a decision, you know, if it's a pricing problem, to make adjustments, um, if profitable, uh, make a decision to, you know, make additions to the project and slow down the launch. 00:39:38.456 --> 00:39:42.385 Like not knowing the particular situation. 00:39:42.385 --> 00:40:00.896 I think the quote is actually a very good one, which is, um, once you determine that you're gonna have your an a, you know, an unsuccessful, um, uh, event about to occur, then make changes. 00:40:02.065 --> 00:40:18.175 You know, you're, you're hosting, you're hosting a client dinner, and, um, the gas goes off in the kitchen and there's no, uh, there's no gas for cooking, right? 00:40:18.896 --> 00:40:19.916 What do you do? 00:40:20.786 --> 00:40:25.226 Like at that point, you just, as people arrive, say, I'm really sorry, everyone has to go home. 00:40:25.735 --> 00:40:28.255 Or do you make an adjustment? 00:40:28.255 --> 00:40:28.766 Adjustment? 00:40:28.766 --> 00:40:33.536 Might be, what are we, what can we serve as a starter Maine? 00:40:33.536 --> 00:40:35.396 And clearly dessert's, probably. 00:40:35.396 --> 00:40:37.045 Okay, that doesn't have to be cooked. 00:40:37.405 --> 00:40:45.626 Uh, is there a, is there a, uh, something nearby that we could bring food in? 00:40:45.985 --> 00:40:48.536 Could we bring the main course in, serve our starters? 00:40:48.536 --> 00:40:58.496 And while we're doing that, is a local Japanese, Chinese, Indian restaurant nearby that could bring us in, you know, the main course in size. 00:40:58.556 --> 00:41:01.885 Like, you know, you've gotta, you've gotta be able to make decisions. 00:41:02.036 --> 00:41:07.525 And what I hate is, is when the, the problem's happening and everybody's frozen in their tracks. 00:41:08.036 --> 00:41:11.516 You know, my, my view is, is, okay, we have a problem. 00:41:11.965 --> 00:41:14.516 Ideas, gimme some ideas. 00:41:14.726 --> 00:41:16.585 Let's, let's collect the ideas. 00:41:17.126 --> 00:41:18.476 That's a crazy idea. 00:41:18.476 --> 00:41:20.065 That's, that one's not happening. 00:41:20.425 --> 00:41:21.235 That's not bad. 00:41:21.235 --> 00:41:22.286 That's interesting. 00:41:22.646 --> 00:41:23.126 We're right. 00:41:23.516 --> 00:41:36.626 We're, we're right next to a very interesting Thai restaurant that can create a main course that should be suitable for, you know, 90%. 00:41:37.496 --> 00:41:39.655 They can probably create a vegetarian course. 00:41:39.865 --> 00:41:42.175 We have 200 people here. 00:41:43.045 --> 00:41:44.036 Is that possible? 00:41:44.036 --> 00:41:47.576 That Thai restaurant only serves 15 people a night? 00:41:48.655 --> 00:41:49.166 Okay. 00:41:49.255 --> 00:41:51.626 Idea's gone next. 00:41:51.791 --> 00:41:57.317 And so, you know, you've got these, you gotta be able to, uh, you gotta be able to, uh. 00:41:57.833 --> 00:42:01.224 Make decisions and decide what you're gonna do. 00:42:01.824 --> 00:42:03.143 And sometimes it's tough. 00:42:03.173 --> 00:42:07.914 Sometimes you're gonna not satisfy everybody with the decision you're gonna make. 00:42:07.974 --> 00:42:14.664 Or worst case scenario, you have to apologise, say sorry, explain what's happened. 00:42:15.474 --> 00:42:22.434 And then probably apologise again in writing the next day how horrifically embarrassed you are. 00:42:23.177 --> 00:42:23.628 Hmm. 00:42:23.963 --> 00:42:31.583 So I I, I think that, uh, that quote applies to many things in our journeys. 00:42:31.643 --> 00:42:35.134 And, we have to think on our feet and make those tough decisions. 00:42:35.963 --> 00:42:39.893 I was thinking if that happened at a dinner party, I'd just be like, I'm just gonna serve more wine. 00:42:40.731 --> 00:42:50.782 Yeah, well, thank God at home, if we're having a dinner party, you could order in on Deliveroo and have it there, and probably you could put it on your own plates and people would think you're a master chef. 00:42:51.141 --> 00:43:15.755 Uh, the, uh, uh, but, um, you know, if it was a big corporate banquet, I guess, uh, that, you know, I imagine, well, hey, as I start thinking about it, I imagine the great leadership in a hotel chain has generators to back up power gas, to back up gas, um, more than one appliance. 00:43:15.755 --> 00:43:20.615 Like they, they've got all this redundancy built in, they can't afford for that to happen. 00:43:21.155 --> 00:43:23.286 So it was probably a bad example, but I think 00:43:23.369 --> 00:43:23.489 No, 00:43:23.646 --> 00:43:24.425 got the point. 00:43:24.815 --> 00:43:25.715 We got the point. 00:43:26.034 --> 00:43:34.199 And it, it makes me think of Sir Clive Woodward, um, and he was the, was the coach for the World Cup 22, 2003 English rugby team. 00:43:34.559 -->

00:43:38.070 And he talks about teacup thinking calmly under pressure. 00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:42.570 Like, you know how, because again, when those moments happen, how do we as a team think calmly under pressure? 00:43:42.570 --> 00:43:45.719 And, and, and, and I know what you said, you know, move into Solutionizing. 00:43:46.554 --> 00:43:52.853 and when you add all that up, you know, everything we've said, I kind of think of you're setting a, you're setting a bold direction. 00:43:53.693 --> 00:43:57.264 You're always building strong, you know, strong foundations. 00:43:57.563 --> 00:44:02.724 Um, use discipline when you're executing, you know, execute with the discipline. 00:44:03.233 --> 00:44:07.554 Um, stay close and empower, but don't, don't smother. 00:44:07.914 --> 00:44:13.434 And probably finally just prepare relentlessly and make sure you're always prepared. 00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:15.440 Love, love, love this. 00:44:15.739 --> 00:44:20.179 And very last thing, one book that you, it stood the test of time for you leadership book. 00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:22.670 If people, because again, people wanna be like, what does he consume? 00:44:22.670 --> 00:44:24.079 You know, we talk about learning agility. 00:44:25.572 --> 00:44:34.601 Um, actually my favourite that I went back to the other day, um, was Dale Carnegie, the public Speaking Lessons. 00:44:35.532 --> 00:44:46.722 And, um, actually I think that was one of the, the best courses I ever put for a sales team was to take the Dale Carnegie Public Speaking course. 00:44:47.052 --> 00:45:01.362 And, um, yeah, it just, it, it, it, it's very, a very helpful course that you could do yourself, or it's better to do it with other people because you have to put your heart out on your sleeve. 00:45:01.931 --> 00:45:11.141 And I, I think that the, um, the skillset that you can improve on with that course is quite substantive. 00:45:11.532 --> 00:45:18.822 And I did use it back in the late eighties with sales teams, uh, quite extensively. 00:45:19.362 --> 00:45:28.302 And, uh, you know, the awarding of the Dale Carnegie Pen, people still, you know, they hold that with closeness to their hearts. 00:45:28.751 --> 00:45:34.362 And, um, the fact that your people are listening to you telling an emotional story 00:45:34.570 --> 00:45:35.019 Yeah. 00:45:36.132 --> 00:45:40.391 with a group of people that you don't always know, it's quite power. 00:45:40.422 --> 00:45:41.172 Quite powerful. 00:45:41.711 --> 00:45:42.641 Great, great learning. 00:45:42.641 --> 00:45:49.362 So that's, uh, if you haven't done that course, um, choose five or six friends and do it together. 00:45:50.025 --> 00:45:50.686 I love that. 00:45:50.715 --> 00:45:52.215 Well, look, thank you so much. 00:45:52.275 --> 00:45:54.856 Uh, I've made so many notes as always. 00:45:54.916 --> 00:46:02.755 Um, it's always just such an enjoyable experience having you on having these conversations, so I appreciate you and thank you so much. 00:46:03.978 --> 00:46:04.847 Pleasure to be here. 00:46:04.847 --> 00:46:05.583 Thanks, Georgie. 00:46:05.865 --> 00:46:06.675 Thanks, Lance.