บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ #18 Lance Uggla: Creating a Multi Billion Dollar Growth Story

from as a platform. 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:14.800 And it was always around um incremental progress, uh, but continuous. 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:19.360 And don't be don't be always uh driven just by big transformations. 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:22.879 That small incremental improvement, fantastic. 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:39.360 Build momentum through all your daily improvements, your processes, your product gains, um, your decision-making uh cadence, small consistent gains, and then those compound over time and uh the advantage grows. 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:46.560 I I think people often don't recognize, to your point, that compounding, the small, consistent, the momentum. 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:48.959 Like that, that that extrapolates. 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:55.040 And I think people sometimes look for transformation, but it's like be consistent, like that pays dividends in the long run. 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:55.759 100%. 00:05:56.319 --> 00:05:56.639 100%. 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:08.800 And I I think we've seen that actually with the British uh cycling team when they went on to win so many medals, uh, gold medals, Olympics, uh, you know, Tour de France, uh, all the various events. 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:15.839 And I I think the leadership there was all about incremental improvements to gain, you know, the ultimate win. 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:20.319 Okay, so I want to take us to our second quote, and I'll I'll read it out loud. 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:21.600 And then again, what does it mean? 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:23.600 And and I'd love for you to expand on that. 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:36.160 To build a great product, bring key market players in as design, equity, and industry partners, when they are co-creators and not just stakeholders, the relationship deepens. 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:40.720 It aligns the product with real market needs to create lasting impact. 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:56.319 Yeah, well, this was really one of the premises of uh market, and it became even more important uh through IHS Market, working with automotive companies, uh uh industry leaders in energy uh uh and the financial markets. 00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:05.519 You know, the best products that we ever uh were able to build were co-created with the ecosystem that we existed within. 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.160 So don't build anything in isolation. 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:35.279 And I found when customers, partners, and industry leaders helped us design the products and have real economic or strategic alignments with us, um, you end up reducing all your blind spots and you accelerate the adoption, you ensure you're relevant, and then that co-creation deepens commitment and uh overall lowers your execution risk, which uh ends up being a more successful product. 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:40.480 It's interesting because that to me is like common sense, but often not common practice. 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:49.199 You know, that importance or that that focus on strategic alignments,

um, you know, you said they're um to ensure you stay relevant. 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:51.279 And it's interesting how many people don't do that. 00:07:51.680 --> 00:08:04.319 Yeah, well, we've seen that with many great products that uh wane over time as markets change around them, customers' demand changes, um, speed of processing, technological improvements. 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:12.959 You know, you need to be thinking of all of those um uh eventualities that happen around a product. 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:23.199 And uh, you know, through that, those continuous um looks at yourself from the outside in order to be better uh play an important role. 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:32.480 And uh I I think it it should be obvious, but to execute the obvious is hard work. 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:40.320 And uh, you know, a lot of people say all the right things, but then they're not willing to measure themselves against that execution. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:47.279 And I think that uh you'll probably ask me a question about measuring, but for me, measurement is everything. 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:54.879 Well, look, you mentioned the word execution, and many people have great ideas, um, and execution is everything. 00:08:55.039 --> 00:09:04.399 And you when you and I were in conversation, you talked about the bold vision, and I think you know, let's underscore the word bold, like dream big, but a bold vision requires relentless execution. 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:07.120 I mean, again, common sense, not common practice. 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:08.639 Um, speak more to that. 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:20.399 When I think about um that statement, a bold vision requires relentless uh execution, it really means to me that vision by itself is meaningless. 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:22.639 You need discipline follow-through. 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:23.840 And that's critical. 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:37.279 So, how do you how do how do you take those bold ideas and then translate them into priorities, translate them into milestones, translate them into accountability? 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:45.360 And execution then becomes you know the credibility where you earn your strikes, you actually achieve something. 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:50.240 And and you need to be consistent, you need to have speed, you need to have ownership. 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.480 All those things are are measurable. 00:09:52.960 --> 00:10:12.639 And putting measurements, whether it's 10, 100, or 1,000, and then following through and you know, looking at those results on a very, you know, regular cadence, whether it's daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, to make sure you're executing, uh I think critical. 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:21.840 And uh for us in creating IHS market, measurement was, you know, a you know, it was just a normal course of business. 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:23.120 Everybody did it. 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:36.639 And if if people listening were saying, okay, what are the three key things that are non-negotiable when it comes to measuring, what would you say are the top three things that for your business certainly were the key, the key items? 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.679 It would be the inputs to revenue. 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:40.399 Okay. 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:50.000 And the inputs to revenue are visiting customers, making calls, attending conferences, building relationships. 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:53.440 When you do all those things, the revenue comes. 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.840 What is measuring revenue this quarter versus next? 00:10:58.559 --> 00:10:58.960 Right? 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:00.240 Those are outputs. 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:03.519 I always look at the inputs and measure those. 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:06.480 It's the same, secondly, on the cost side. 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.840 So how do you measure the inputs costs? 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:17.279 It's how how often are you doing things, how often are you failing failing, what are you spending your money on? 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:24.559 Measuring that productivity of uh individuals um, you know, ultimately save you money. 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:27.919 And then they drive the final measurement, which of course is earnings. 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.559 You might put all those in the buckets of financial uh metrics. 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:36.480 So measuring financial inputs to me are is really important. 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:45.039 Secondly, I'd say measuring the pulse on your customers, and then also measuring the pulse on your people. 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:45.679 Yeah. 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:53.440 Happy people, happy customers, and you know, strong financial performance. 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.519 When you put those together, you have a really, you know, successful firm. 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:01.519 And and it was really interesting what you said there about inputs versus outputs. 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.759 It's knowing what inputs make your output true. 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.360 You know, what the if you know the output you're looking to achieve, you know, what are the inputs? 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:12.000 When you talk about the pulse of the customers and the pulse of the people, how do you do that? 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:13.360 Is that customer surveys? 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.440 Like again, how do you take the pulse? 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:24.879 Yeah, well, definitely surveying is one of the best ways to, you know, get a good feeling of how things are going in the company. 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:33.519 But, you know, if you're asked to survey something, you don't send out the 10 toughest questions that, you know, are going to depress you when you get the results. 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:42.320 You send out a handful of questions that uh demonstrate your greatness, and then you send out another handful that you're curious about. 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:51.440 Um but ultimately for me, surveying a great view of your trends and your improvements

quarter over quarter. 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:59.279 So if you survey twice a year, then twice a year, you're on two or three questions, you're seeing if you're improving. 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:00.879 And I think that's really relevant. 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:02.399 Same on the people side. 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:04.240 So people and customers. 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:24.799 Um, but ultimately, at least once a year or once every two years, I'd like to hire an independent third party that would actually do a hundred customer visits, meet 200 people in the company, and in an anonymous, thoughtful way, really make sure you have the pulse on what's happening. 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:28.399 Because I think we love hearing the good news. 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:31.120 We like explaining away the bad news. 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:34.960 And uh that's not a great uh leadership uh style. 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:43.759 No, I suppose ultimately we don't know what we don't know, which is where those surveys blind spot, so they shine a light on the things that we need to pay attention to. 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:44.399 Yeah. 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:49.840 And and you know, what whatever you measure is gonna get managed and improved. 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:53.919 So ultimately, you know, you've got to make that happen. 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:59.759 And getting the right metrics, focusing attention on the outcomes, uh, very important. 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:09.840 Aligning the teams around uh the information, find problems early, um, you know, allowing yourself to drive better decisions. 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.879 Poor metrics create false confidence. 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:14.000 That's what I would say. 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.559 And good metrics create clarity. 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:22.559 Yeah, and and to your point, the more you're measuring things, that finding problems early, things become discoverable. 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:23.679 100%. 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:25.440 Very, very important. 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.960 There are many more one-liners just saying that are coming out of this. 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:36.320 So which is you can use you can use uh you can use those in uh in the building of your company, George. 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:41.120 But they're they are and and I think to your point, this measurement is so critical. 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:44.080 And you know, what we measure, what we put our attention on expands. 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:47.120 And you said that what we measure gets managed. 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:50.960 And it again, it it's all these things, common sense, not common practice. 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.600 People know they need to measure things, but it's not always done. 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.559 And look, you your businesses have had extraordinary success. 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:58.799 So I think it's it's really uncovering here. 00:14:58.879 --> 00:14:59.840 What are the secret sources? 00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:01.840 You know, what have made those outcomes true? 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:13.360 And yeah, as an as an innovator, uh, as Rich said, um, an entrepreneur, extraordinaire, and an extraordinary uh business builder, it takes me to a question on innovation. 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:17.360 And, you know, one of the quotes that you you you talked about is innovation. 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:18.720 You will make mistakes. 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.799 Um, that's part of the journey, and things are not always gonna go your way. 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:27.919 And what you shared is like when these things happen, as they will, like focus forward. 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:32.720 Like what matters then is how you recover, how you learn, how you move on. 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:34.240 Can you speak more to that? 00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:39.919 Yeah, well, well, first off, when I think about innovation means you'll make mistakes. 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:44.639 I actually think failures inherent to great progress, right? 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:52.879 You've got to have failures to be able to innovate at the most important uh, you know, or optimal level. 00:15:53.120 --> 00:16:01.360 And innovation always requires us to experiment, and experimenting involves uncertainty in everything. 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:11.440 So the goal to me was never to avoid mistakes, it was just to make them smaller, learn quickly, and then apply that forward. 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:22.799 And so, you know, when I think about the comment of focus forward, it was how do you, you know, be resilient, don't focus on perfection. 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:24.879 Resilience is what you want. 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:28.879 And strong innovators, they don't dwell on setbacks. 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:42.240 Like if you get setback when you're innovating, drive through it, get the insight from that, adapt, make change fast, redirect your energy, and uh start focusing on the next solution. 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:48.799 And so recovery speed actually can become a competitive advantage, you know, for an innovative company. 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.000 Um, a lot of companies don't recover from failure. 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:57.039 Uh they have a failure, they get depressed, uh, a lot of long faces. 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.879 You need to come in that next day, and you got to recover. 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.519 And the faster you recover, the better. 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:09.440 And if it takes three aspirins, take the three aspirins and uh, you know, get back to work. 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:15.680 Yeah, and and I suppose there can be emotion, but you can't be too emotional because depression, you know, emotions are contagious. 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.200 As a leader, it's it's that focus forward, learn and move on. 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:21.279 Yeah, no, exactly. 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:27.599 You use the word resilience, and I and when we were discussing the quotes, this is just as a side, but as

you said that it just came up for me. 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:32.480 I was asked in a TV interview the other day, and curious to get your thoughts before I I share mine. 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:39.920 Are leaders successful leaders, are they more resilient than those who are not as successful? 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.759 And I'm curious what your thoughts are hearing that question. 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:53.440 I think it depends on the type of you know, operation, product, uh, set of products, you know, it depends on the company you're running. 00:17:53.680 --> 00:18:00.799 But for me, resiliency was critical in terms of the success of IHS market. 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:11.759 Um because in every aspect, when you're when you run a winning product, everybody's trying to take market share from you, right? 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:13.599 Hence widen the gap. 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:27.680 When you're in a a number two or number three product, uh you have a tendency to use price to win market share and therefore, you know, damage the TAM that you're operating in. 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:35.839 Uh, you know, instead of creating a better product and offering it at the same price, you create a better product and offer at a cheaper price. 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:39.359 And then you try to recover that and both both lose. 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:48.480 And so to me, I think it it really resiliency is uh a key leadership quality for the businesses that I operated in. 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:55.920 And it it required constant attention to maintain the highest level of resiliency. 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:56.559 Yeah. 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:05.680 I look at leaders in today's world and the pace of change, you know, we're inundated with new entrants, AI, automation, tokenization, private versus public markets. 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:06.880 This there's so much. 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:13.839 And I look at leaders, their travel schedules, their their schedules, the expectations that come with the role. 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:17.759 And I think there's a there's a baseline of resilience that's higher than others. 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:23.440 Uh, because I think physiologically, not everyone, and that's okay, not everyone can operate at that level. 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:30.000 No, there is uh, you know, the management of the stress that surrounds the operating environment. 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:41.039 I think, you know, if you can handle the stress and manage the stress through other outlets, I think that uh you ultimately will be a better leader. 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:49.920 And you know, a calmer leader giving clear instructions is always better than you know, the loud, noisy leader giving unclear instructions. 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:52.000 And so to me, it you know, it's important. 00:19:52.240 --> 00:20:07.920 When you think of change, the change technology, you know, I started in 1986 in a trading room that didn't have Excel Word, um, the internet, cell phones.

00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:09.519 So you just take those. 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:11.519 Like we talk about AI today. 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:18.960 All of a sudden people have cell phones, they have emails, um, they have word processing. 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:27.279 They don't need to use a calculator and learn how to use an HP 12C, um, which many won't know what an HP 12C even is. 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:35.359 But you know, learning how to operate a calculator, a scientific calculator was part of, you know, the training of the late 80s. 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:38.400 Um, as we moved to 90s, that disappeared. 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.240 And then uh object-oriented programming came in. 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:46.319 So things were being calculated at a fast, much faster pace. 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:53.839 So instead of having to have 20 salespeople, you could actually answer as many queries with 10. 00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:01.519 So you had efficiencies coming because people could do things faster and be more productive. 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:26.720 Uh, you then had moves uh, you know, to um large cloud-based services that allowed you to um reduce costs of you know, costly big um hosted solutions that had all sorts of inherent inherent issues with speed as people wanted things faster around the world, you could move towards the cloud and improve that. 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:34.720 And I remember the first cloud decision I made, there were two finalists in the room, Amazon and Michael Dell. 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:41.279 And of course, everyone said, you know, Dell's a technology company, Amazon's a shopping platform. 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.440 You know, who are you supposed to do your first big cloud expense with? 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:47.200 And we went with Michael Dell. 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.240 He sold the business to NTT Data. 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:56.079 Um, and along came Amazon investing billions of dollars. 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.759 And within five years, we made the move to. 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:06.480 You know, transform ourselves uh to uh to Amazon Web Services. 00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:12.240 And um, you know, those types of decisions require a lot of resiliency. 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:12.559 Yeah. 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:22.880 Because you're spending money, you're making big transformative decisions, and then you're having to change and stay keep everyone motivated uh through another transformation project. 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:25.440 So, yes, all important. 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:28.960 Resiliency is definitely a great word and an important one. 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:29.359 Yeah. 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:37.440 And as you said, stress management, knowing your outlets beforehand, you know, you've talked about your on switches, you know, make sure you know you're on switches and you're activating those. 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:42.160 When we talked about innovation, we've talked about, you know, failure is inevitable. 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:44.640 Um, and also people may make mistakes. 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:52.640 And um, you know, you've said when we in one of our conversations, you know, don't waste time blaming people when something goes wrong. 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.960 And yet often it that's easy to do. 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:59.680 So can you speak to me more about how you don't do that, how you don't blame people? 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:03.839 And what do you think the outcome is of not, you know, pointing fingers? 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:08.640 Yeah, I think it's easy to point fingers and it's hard to take responsibility. 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:12.160 And for me, blame kills all learning and trust. 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:17.680 How are you gonna learn if you think you're gonna make a mistake and then get blamed for it? 00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:23.839 So I think blame is a really poor leadership style. 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:31.599 Even if you know what happens, don't kill the learning environment in a firm through a blame culture. 00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:38.960 And I I think when failure occurs, you know, leaders should focus on systems, decisions, and assumptions. 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:40.880 Don't look for a scapegoat. 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:47.839 And accountability still exists, but the goal has to be improvement and never punishment. 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:48.880 I love that. 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.359 The goal has to be improvement, never punishment. 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:53.279 It's so important. 00:23:53.359 --> 00:24:00.640 I think people can get caught up in that emotional reactivity, and yet that can have a such a negative ripple in an organization. 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:08.480 Another quote I want to take you to, which um is different, but there's a there's a I suppose a thread that links it to is i individual performance. 00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:14.640 And you know, when you talked about having a growth learning environment, you can work with people on underperformance is what you stated. 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:21.759 However, if a person's values and characteristics are misaligned with a company culture, it will be toxic for an organization. 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:23.279 They have to be removed. 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:30.640 And yet so often another, you know, I've seen organizations they allow that behavior to persist because they're they're that they're big P ⁇ L providers. 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:35.519 So how do you how do you how do you manage those um those those toxic individuals? 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:39.759 Okay, toxic individuals to me means you have to let them go. 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:47.119 Um if they're individuals that um you know are underperforming. 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:54.960 You know, when I think of uh values and character misalignment as being toxic, I always said you have to remove it. 00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:01.759 So culture matters more than talent at any moment in time in a firm. 00:25:02.000 -->

00:25:08.240 Um and I think that plays well within a uh sports club, a racing team. 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:10.400 You know, culture, culture matters. 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:11.200 What do you do? 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:18.559 You have to, you know, develop the right skills and you know, make sure that you have the values that will define behavior. 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:29.440 You know, if somebody's undermining trust or integrity or respect of the organization, um, you know, then the organization wins over the individual. 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:32.079 You said that about culture matters more than talent. 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:33.920 I I remember reading the all blacks. 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.400 You know, they said that they have like a no dickhead policy is is their words, not mine. 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:48.720 Uh, but they said, however talented you are, if you're not the right cultural fit, if you're not a team player, it doesn't matter how skilled you are at passing the ball or tackling, like there is no place for you in the team. 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:50.880 No, I I agree with that 100%. 00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:55.920 One of where I want to take us to is about the people within an organization. 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.519 And and you said, look, the best ideas can come from anywhere in the organization. 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:01.519 Innovation has no hierarchy. 00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:05.440 Um, so it's about creating a culture where every voice is valued. 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:11.440 Because if you focus solely on the voices at the top, there's maybe some really interesting ideas that you could be overlooking. 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:13.440 How do you do that in principle? 00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:19.680 Well, first off, I don't think you know, innovation's definitely not hierarchical, right? 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:24.720 Innovation doesn't just come from CEO and the executive team meeting in a private room. 00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:32.400 Innovation comes from your salespeople, your tech leaders, your product development teams. 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:37.759 It come from everywhere, come from your finance department, uh, uh your legal department. 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:44.000 So my view is innovation has to be part of the culture and it should never be hierarchical. 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:50.240 And, you know, great leaders have to create environments where people feel safe to contribute. 00:26:50.400 --> 00:27:03.279 You know, some people in some firms maybe feel like contributing a new idea, they're gonna be shot down, or you know, somebody's gonna feel jealous or you know, concerned about what they have to say. 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:09.839 Um, but my view is people need to feel safe to contribute regardless of the role or their title. 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:16.559 And ignoring the voices outside of uh leadership often means that you're gonna miss the best insights. 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:17.680 I love that. 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:20.400 Uh innovation has to be part of the culture. 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:21.920 Uh so it's lived and breathed. 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.440 It's not just a nice word that's emblazoned on a wall or on a website. 00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:28.319 Like it's it's it's it's an entity, it's a living entity. 00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:29.119 Agree. 00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:33.759 So great leaders are defined during the toughest situations. 00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:36.960 When everything is going right, it's easy. 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:38.240 So talk to me about that. 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.640 Great leaders are defined during the toughest situations. 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:45.839 I actually think that leadership is earned when you're under pressure. 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:47.039 That's when you're tested. 00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:51.519 When conditions are easy, anyone can lead, you know, and show up. 00:27:51.680 --> 00:28:01.440 If the market's growing at 15% around you and you're growing at 17%, you've really only added a couple points of you know, added value. 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:06.799 If markets are growing at 3% and you're growing at 15%, you're taking market share. 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:09.200 You are the definer in the marketplace. 00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:13.920 I look at it and I think when conditions are easy, anyone can lead. 00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:18.000 But in adversity, the real leaders have to show up. 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.799 They got to be calm, they got to use judgment, they have to have moral clarity. 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.400 And, you know, in tough times, you've got to earn trust. 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:28.319 This is what it matters the most. 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:29.839 Yeah, it's so true. 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:35.839 It's so and I think it's in tough times where if you are a trusted leader, people will go above and beyond for you. 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.079 I think it then it really starts to pay dividends. 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:39.440 No, I agree with that. 00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:42.880 I always say to my children, hard work is a minimum. 00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:50.559 Um, and you said in one of our conversations, to be a successful entrepreneur, you're gonna have to work harder than 99% of people you know. 00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:52.319 Um, can you speak more to that? 00:28:52.799 --> 00:29:01.119 If anybody has the thought of creating a new company and bringing it to success, um, is gonna be easy. 00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:03.039 They're starting their own career. 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:11.599 So an entrepreneur um, I think has to work, you know, two times harder than anybody else around them. 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:21.200 And that success of a good entrepreneur requires extreme, and I say extreme in the uh quotes, extreme commitment. 00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:23.039 Uh, you have to show up. 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:28.480 Um, you got to have sustained intensity, you got to have resilience, which we already spoke

about. 00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:35.359 You got to have personal sacrifice, which is hard to do, and you'll have a lot of pressure uh for personal sacrifice. 00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:40.079 And it's not just about long hours, it's about relentless focus. 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:41.119 Constantly. 00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:48.079 You're constantly, I remember just constantly thinking about market and IHS market was in every conversation. 00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:52.559 Every business article I read, I could relate it to IHS Market. 00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.079 Any learnings I had, I could relate to IHS Market. 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:01.440 Um, any leadership book I read, I could relate back to IHS Market. 00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:09.440 So it's a relentless focus, lots of energy and you know, real ownership, you know, over long periods of time. 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.079 How do you relate to the word obsessive? 00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:13.440 I think it's a good word. 00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:19.119 I I think it's okay to be obsessive as an entrepreneur, because if you're not, you're probably gonna fail. 00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:24.079 Um but don't be obsessive over the wrong things in life. 00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:35.039 You know, take that obsessive, if you have an obsessive nature towards success and achievement, um, then use it as a uh benefit and win with it. 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:41.039 Yeah, I listened to Tote Wolf um in Devos recently speak, and he talked about his obsessiveness. 00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:43.359 And you know, you've talked about attention to detail. 00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:53.279 I was I was listening to him for big, I feel like I'm listening to Lance because like the attempt, the things he measures like are extraordinary, the things he cares about. 00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:58.720 So it's an obsessiveness, but in a such a passionate and such a positive way. 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:00.240 Yeah, and I I love it. 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:09.680 And you know, one you know, quote in the book that I I loved uh that you referred to me a couple of times was, you know, how involved in the detail? 00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:12.960 You know, do you overmanage or undermanage? 00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:22.559 And my view is is when I thought about that, effective leadership, it requires you to adjust to the right altitude, right? 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:25.599 What's the right altitude for the problem you're dealing with? 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:31.599 And you you've got to understand the detail well enough to make informed decisions. 00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:38.240 You're you're you're the leader, know the detail well enough so you can make the right decisions. 00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:42.319 If you can't make the right decisions, then ask the right questions. 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:44.400 At least spot the risk. 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.079 Be close enough, but don't suffocate the teams. 00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:50.480 That's that then you're doing the opposite. 00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:54.960 You try to solve the problem, you overmanage, you suffocate. 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.599 So my view is oversight's never micromanagement. 00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:00.559 It's just not. 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.079 It's not micromanagement. 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:09.599 It's adjusting yourself to the right altitude to assist the team to make even better decisions. 00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:19.039 And and with that being at the right altitude, do you think that's something inherently like you, you, your, your intuition tells you what the right altitude is? 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.960 Or is that something you really have to spend time thinking, you know, what is the right altitude? 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:25.279 Like I'm curious where you sit on that. 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:30.319 I think you have to know what the wrong altitude is before you can figure out what the right one is. 00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:34.160 So the wrong one is you're suffocating me. 00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:35.039 Right? 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:41.599 Like imagine the people coming to work every day going, oh God, yeah, great leader suffocates me every day, right? 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.319 So that's not a good outcome. 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:49.759 Or great leader, we're doing well, but he doesn't know any of the detail. 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.599 Asks all the wrong questions, or she asks all the wrong questions. 00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:54.960 That's not good. 00:32:55.359 --> 00:33:02.559 So you need to be able to adjust to the right level for the problem in front of you. 00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:07.279 And that is never too light or too hard. 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:08.559 It just isn't. 00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:15.200 It's always between the wings of the possibility to either under or overmanage. 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:17.440 And for me, it's about that agility, isn't it? 00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:21.519 It's that that calibration or that recalibration and not a one-size-fits-all. 00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:29.039 One of the last quotes that I want, and one of our very, very first conversations, you shared this quote, which I'm gonna speak to in a second. 00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:33.519 And I share it all the time because I think it's so simple yet so valuable. 00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:47.039 You talked earlier on today about curiosity, and you're clearly like relationships people, whether it's clients, customers, uh, um any stakeholder, it's it's it's about you know building relationships and that curiosity. 00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:52.240 And you said to build great relationships, be interested and be interesting. 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:54.559 Um, can you speak more to that? 00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:55.920 Because it's a simple statement. 00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:01.279 Yeah, if you do that well, that has a very big amplification impact. 00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:07.279 Yeah, I think um, especially with dynamics around people. 00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:11.440 So if you

take that and apply it to customers, right? 00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:15.679 Customers you need to be interested in them. 00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:17.519 You're serving them. 00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:32.079 They're paying you for the products you deliver to them, they want you to be interested in them, understand their business, understand their growth pains, understand their uh challenges financially, you know, be engaged. 00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:39.760 Then the customer has to be interested in you being in their ecosystem. 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:42.639 So that means you need to be interesting. 00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:50.079 And interesting means that you can show up and relate to the person that you're talking to. 00:34:50.639 --> 00:35:10.079 And so if you know, I played, you know, you know, World Cup rugby for 10 years, and all I knew was rugby, and I showed up at every customer, and my interesting points were only about rugby, I can tell you you'd probably leave 90% of the world aside. 00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:15.119 And so to be interesting, you know, you're a great athlete. 00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:19.360 What does it mean to be a great athlete in 20 other sports? 00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:26.400 What does it mean to be a great uh musician or dancer or a great writer? 00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:37.519 And, you know, the way you can develop that point of the ability to be more interesting is to read and study more. 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:54.719 And so I think finding time as a leader to make sure they're aware of what's going on in the world, what changes are going on in the world around you, what are the interesting stories, where is their suffering, uh, where is their uh charity required? 00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:56.079 This is really important. 00:35:56.320 --> 00:36:17.039 And when you develop those skills uh around the people aspects of your business, either inside or outside the firm, uh, it it will shine through and um allow people to become more connected to you, and therefore uh uh it gives you an ability to create a competitive edge. 00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:19.280 Yeah, I just I just think it's so powerful. 00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:29.920 And to your point, I think sometimes we think we're interesting because we know a lot about what we know, but it's again understanding more about the world and uh so that word you use, you know, be relatable. 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:39.760 And last question, just as we as we kind of come to a close, and it isn't a quote from the book, but I wonder what's one thing most people come to advice for you on? 00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:41.199 You know, what are the themes? 00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:58.480 Well, one thing is different than the themes, uh, but I'll tell you, I'd say that on a weekly basis, I would say people like to pressure test their ideas against something that they consider was successful. 00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:21.440 So I would say that through the history, you know, if you think the um, you know, there was, you know, just say 20,000 people in IHS market, maybe average 10,000 over the course of the 20 years, um, or five, you say 5,000, and the turnover is, you know, 10% a year. 00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:33.840 Well, you know, there was probably, you know, close to 100,000 people that went through the corridors of IHS market uh in the time that uh I was leading it. 00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:53.920 And many of those um individuals grasped the entrepreneurism that market represented at a time in the financial markets or IHS uh market uh represented in this kind of golden information age. 00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:57.440 Uh and they went on to do interesting things. 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:21.679 And so the most common thing that I find I'm asked to do is to, you know, have a discussion like this where you know somebody starting something new uh is looking for, you know, somebody to be a sounding board against an idea that they're interested uh to take forward. 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:29.920 And I think when that happens, I feel very privileged that people would consider me to have that conversation with them. 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:32.800 And so most of the time I say yes. 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:38.320 I can't do that all my time, but I at least weekly I say yes. 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:47.760 I think today I said yes twice uh um uh from individuals that pass through IHS market corridors in different parts of the world. 00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:50.159 And I look forward to those conversations. 00:38:50.400 --> 00:39:02.800 And uh at least probably 10 times, I've invested alongside those individuals and been mentors and advisors as they grew those new um opportunities. 00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:05.840 And uh, so it's a privilege to be asked. 00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:22.960 Sindhu, one of the individuals who he put something on LinkedIn about the book and he credited you as he started two very successful businesses and he said, you know, all his the entrepreneurial spirit and all the uh I suppose the strategies that underpin entrepreneurial success, he he he credits you with. 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:32.559 So it doesn't surprise me that people come to you for that, for that, um, to be the sounding board, uh, to be the challenger and to hold the mirror up to them. 00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:33.840 No, I like doing it. 00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:35.760 And I I usually have two questions. 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:39.199 You know, I want to understand is what's your moat? 00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:46.719 To me, the moat, the wider and deeper the moat is, the better opportunity for success, right? 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:53.199 And I don't want the moat to be just first mover or um price. 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:57.199 Those are things that uh to me can be beaten. 00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:06.719 It's got to be an idea, and then you've got to, you know, be able to demonstrate how you can make that moat even wider or even deeper. 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:14.639 And then I want the numbers, the science to work before I get described all the art. 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:18.719 So to me, um, science is math. 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:20.320 Does the math work? 00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:25.280 The TAM, the pricing, the cost structure, what you're trying to do. 00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:27.280 I just want to pressure test the math. 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:31.440 That takes me like 15 minutes, and I can know if the math works. 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:35.280 And then ultimately you want to apply that math. 00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:36.880 Now I want to hear the art. 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:38.480 The artist has to come out. 00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:42.400 You know, what what's the what's the passion sound like? 00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:57.280 What is the um, you know, do they have a, you know, a multi-tenored path to success that uh, you know, has uh you know the right amount of opportunity in it for them to win. 00:40:57.440 --> 00:40:59.199 And I I love hearing it. 00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:07.199 When I don't hear it, I'm happy to tell them that uh they've got to go back to the drawing board and do some more work. 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:08.639 Yeah, being the truth teller. 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:12.480 Well, this is I do feel like there's a new book that we are building already. 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:18.079 I think today we've planted the seed because there are so many other wonderful sound bites that have come up. 00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:29.519 So I hope this is the start of many more conversations where we can explore the insights from the book and really unpack them because I come away from every conversation feeling up-leveled, energized, inspired. 00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:33.119 And I know everyone who listens to you and who's worked for you feels the same. 00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:39.519 So thank you for the gift of your time and for just being so gracious in sharing the how-to with us. 00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:40.639 Thanks. 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:45.760 I appreciate all your time, Georgie, and your focus on raising the bar as well. 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:46.960 So thank you so much. 00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:47.920 My pleasure. 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:48.880 Thanks, Lance. 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:59.519 If you want to see the full episode, please do look at Apple and Spotify under Stratospheric Leaders, or go to YouTube where it'll be under Georgie Dickens. 00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:01.440 I hope you enjoyed the full episode. 00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:03.599 There are so many great sound bites shared.