บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 15: The Shining

to Carrie, Doctor's sleep, um, Firestarter, they they start to make sense when you look at it from that aspect. 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:48.000 But if you take that out and you just look at it from a mental health aspect, this seems really scary. 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:59.839 Well, I want to add that you say something is in Danny that awakens basically whenever he goes into the hotel. 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:08.639 But if you remember, um he kind of started acting funky, I guess, whenever Tony comes into the picture. 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:12.879 But Tony comes into the picture after his after what happened with his dad. 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:19.759 And so I think I need to do some more research on like you know, Dr. 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:27.120 Sleep and Carrie and you know, all the other interconnected people, um to see if it's the same with them. 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:39.519 But I think Danny's trauma is what woke up his shine, or like what you know caused it, if you will, because he didn't have anything before that, before the trauma. 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:40.800 Yeah, no, I agree. 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:47.759 And if I if I misspoke, I meant like when Danny entered the hotel, something awoke in it. 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:49.600 No, the like the hotel woke up. 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:50.879 Yeah, I didn't think you misspoke. 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:56.480 I just was just like, you know, I think that's actually when his trauma started, like it wasn't always there. 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:58.480 I think, or not trauma, but his shine started. 00:07:58.560 --> 00:07:59.600 I think it started from trauma. 00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:16.000 Yeah, and the and then because we learned throughout the film is dad was a pretty serious alcoholic and you know, maybe not the best spoken person at home, and you know, physical or emotional, that can be trauma no matter what. 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:16.720 Yeah. 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:24.639 So speaking of mental health, emotional trauma, all the things, should we get into it? 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:25.920 Let's go. 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:27.040 All right. 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:29.279 Obviously, we talk about Jack. 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:33.679 He is a very cut and dry, easy one to talk about. 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:36.240 So I'm gonna be very brief with him. 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:45.679 We know he's an alcoholic, he struggles with addiction, which is has also caused trauma for him when he does hurt Danny. 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:58.879 So I think on top of, but it's weird because he talks about how he's he almost you almost briefly get a sense of guilt for him hurting Danny and blaming alcohol for that. 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:03.360 But then he also talks about in the same breath that he misses alcohol and how it made him feel. 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:09.360 So it's almost like you don't know what he feels worse about, not drinking anymore or hitting his son. 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:11.039 Classic narcissist. 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:16.320 So he is always the victim, blaming others, can't take accountability for his actions. 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:21.120 He is just he's just mean, he thinks he's just hot shit. 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:32.080 Um, but I I I do think I wish we knew more about his background, but I do think there's some trauma there for him too, even in childhood that maybe causes the alcoholism. 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:48.480 But I I also do 100% think that it was regardless of him not drinking anymore, I think him hurting Danny did cause him some trauma and kind of put him deeper into himself, whether he wanted to admit to it or wanted to admit or not. 00:09:48.879 --> 00:10:09.200 So I do believe he had violent tendencies from the very beginning, but I think being in isolation at the hotel, not being able to leave, having no other people around, that caused a psychotic break for him, which is what caused him to kind of turn into this violent person. 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:14.799 And the whole movie itself is just all about generational trauma. 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:29.440 When he goes to the hotel, I mean, you get all these different people that have been there, what's happened to them, and it's just one thing after another with him, and then with Danny, and then moving forward, you just know, okay, everybody in this hotel is just messed up in the head. 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:47.039 I do, I do think I want to talk more, and this is gonna sound really weird, but I kind of want to analyze, and by analyze I mean like psychoanalyze the actual hotel as if it's a character, if you will allow me to do that. 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:49.519 Yeah, I definitely will allow you to do that. 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:50.080 Okay. 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:51.519 Bear with me. 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:52.159 Okay. 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:57.679 I understand the hotel is just a hotel, it's an inanimate object. 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:02.879 Um, it's not a person, it you know, doesn't have feelings, but I I disagree. 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:17.679 For one, I'm going to see the entire idea, concept, what have you, of the overlook hotel is the entire Freudian concept of the unconscious mind. 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:27.200 So for those who are not familiar with the unconscious mind, Sigmund Freud created this idea of the consciousness. 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:29.679 So there's three levels to consciousness. 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:36.960 And if you picture an iceberg in your head, you see like the top of the iceberg is what you see, right? 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:38.399 Just like in Titanic. 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.840 But then you there's so much underneath that you can't see. 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:51.759 So if you think of the three types of consciousness broken down that way, the conscious mind is the top or the awareness a person has. 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:58.960 Then there's the pre-conscious, which is like that small slab of ice that you can kind of see right below

the water. 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:13.679 And that is where your information, where memories are, where like knowledge is from like, let's say you learned something in fifth grade, and then you don't have to bring it back to the forefront until you're in your 30s. 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:19.440 That's because it's in your pre-conscious mind, but but your mind has put it to the side because, oh, it's not important. 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:36.879 And then you have the unconscious mind, which this unconscious is where our instincts and drives um live, our deeply buried fears, unfulfilled wishes and dreams, and this is also where traumatic memories are. 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:46.399 So when you've heard me talk about PTSD, you've heard me talk about one of the biggest symptoms is repressed memories, right? 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:50.559 Like you, or you don't remember certain aspects of the event. 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.480 It's because of the trauma that your brain, according to Freud. 00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:00.720 And I'm gonna be the first to say I think Freud is an idiot, and I can't stand the man. 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:02.480 I think he's just gross. 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:17.120 But this is one concept that I always found to be interesting, and I think a lot of the hotel itself is supposed to signify the unconscious mind of Jack. 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:20.240 Interesting. 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:21.519 So I know. 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:44.480 So it's basically like viewing, like you're you're seeing Jack and how he's reacting, interacting with people, and then you see the hotel, and you're almost seeing like Jack on the outside and Jack on the inside, almost like the hotel is a representation of his fractured psyche. 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:48.080 So I want to dive even further into that. 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:50.080 You bearing with me so far. 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:51.279 I'm still here. 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:51.840 Okay. 00:13:52.240 --> 00:14:03.039 So when you hear me talk about the unconscious mind, I had mentioned, you know, that it's where instincts and drives live, according to Freud. 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:09.600 So instincts and drive would be things like as simple as, hey, I'm hungry, I need to eat, right? 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:10.480 You don't think about it. 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:14.960 I'm thirsty, I need to drink something, I need to go to the bathroom, I need to sleep because I'm tired. 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:25.360 But it also, so that's that in instinct stuff, but then it also buries that, those drives, including like sexual drives, things like that. 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:38.639 So I think 437, the woman in 437 represents or supposed to represent his lust drive. 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.799 Like it doesn't seem like him and his wife are doing very well. 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.039 He also is a narcissist. 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:50.720 So I think this the woman in 437 represents him, represents that, not him. 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:58.960 And then if you think about, I talk about unfulfilled wishes and unfulfilled dreams as part of the unconscious. 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:19.039 I think the two I think the sisters, part of that because they were young when they died, which technically, if you really think about it in this perspective, could represent their unfulfilled wishes and dreams because they died at a young age and they they are stuck, right? 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:34.000 But you also have a bar with no alcohol and a person who is a recovering alcoholic living in the hotel with a bar with no alcohol. 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:43.840 So his unfulfilled wishes and dreams, he goes to that bar because you know he wants to drink, but he can't, which makes him unravel even more. 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:44.720 Yeah. 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.080 Then you go into buried fears. 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:58.559 So this one was a little bit harder for me to like pinpoint what exactly in the movie or in the hotel would represent like those buried fears. 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:06.559 But I think it's just that very generic, like death, blood, you know, being isolated, things like that. 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:16.720 And then it also represents not only repressed memories, but the return of those same repressed memories. 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:21.600 So all these obviously just trauma left and right. 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.679 All of that's going to be repressed and coming back to the forefront. 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:39.440 Like we just talked about Tony a little bit ago, and how Tony is almost kind of that being, if you will, that reminds Danny of like, hey, your dad's an asshole, you know? 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:40.320 Yeah. 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:46.960 So it also talks about Jack's violent tendencies. 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:58.799 And I think the if you're talking about the unconscious mind and how it brings back repressed urges or repressed memories, returns things like that. 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:09.279 This also includes Jack's violent tendencies because it doesn't talk about things before, like the only violent incident we really hear about is Danny. 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:15.119 But I have a hunch, just based on who he is as a person, there are probably others. 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:36.640 Well, and for those of you who have not seen the film, which I'm sure I would assume you have by now, but if you have not, the violent incident is where Jack in anger pulls on Danny's arm, and did he break it or did he dislocate it? 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:41.839 They said he dislocated his shoulder because he pulled him hard enough to dislocate his shoulder. 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:50.240 And that's that's kind of where the distrust and the I need to quit drinking kind of came into play. 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:56.400 But I also think that he would not have stopped if he wasn't forced to. 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.599 Like I think he was perfectly fine with continuing

to drink. 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:06.559 Because if he absolutely, you know, what we say in my field is if they want to, they will. 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:18.400 Like I can, you know, I supervise case managers who deal with patients on a day-to-day basis who have things like schizophrenia and severe bipolar disorder and are alcoholics. 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:34.319 And I tell my case managers all the time, like, you can give them resource after resource after resource, you can help connect them to different things, but they still have to make the choice to utilize what we give them. 00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:45.359 And so kind of goes back to Jack, where his wife is like, Hey, you know, you gotta do this, and he's like reluctantly does it, but does he really want it? 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:46.480 Is it gonna be sustainable? 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:47.279 Probably not. 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:48.480 We see that. 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:55.039 Yeah, I think it's super cool to look at because the shining, if you look at it yourself, it's so silly. 00:18:55.279 --> 00:19:01.440 The entire thing is just like, oh my gosh, you can absolutely tell this was in 1980, because it's just so cheesy. 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:06.880 But if you look at it from that lens of like, okay, let's think about this as if it's the inside of Jack's mind. 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:09.759 And it's it makes so much more sense. 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:16.400 And that's also why I think that Danny activates it. 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:41.119 Because I think regardless of how Jack feels or what he sees himself as, what he sees Danny as, I think Danny awakes something in Jack, whether that's his anger, whether that's his violence, whether that's the small percentage of actual humanity and empathy he might have because he has a son. 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:46.160 I think Danny does do that to Jack, which I think is also why he does it to the hotel. 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:47.680 Interesting. 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:55.200 I did not I I'm sorry if I've been quiet. 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:01.279 I've never necessarily really kind of looked at it from that lens. 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:09.440 And the way that you kind of laid that out for us was uh extremely well done. 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:14.160 And it's huh. 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:31.920 Yeah, it's very crazy to really look at it from that aspect because if you want to take even the supernatural out of it, it could still be there because of the imagination of one's brain, yeah, and being involved with Jack. 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:35.759 That's that's an interesting way. 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:55.599 Because I think I even when we were watching it, and Jack is at the bar and he's talking to Lloyd, and I I said out loud, I was like, it is Jack shining right now, or is this all legitimately in his head? 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:59.519 Because I maybe it's one and the same. 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:07.200 So you talk about Lloyd, and that also brings me to

something else. 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.799 Um, you say that, you know, is he a figment of his imagination? 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:12.799 Is he part of the hotel? 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:27.839 I think what he's supposed to represent, I think Lloyd goes back to that like unconscious part of the mind that brings you that gives you your or that hides your deepest desires. 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:33.920 And Lloyd is a bartender at a bar that does not serve alcohol. 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:48.960 So he would represent, if you think about it again, if we're just thinking about the the hotel itself as the unconscious mind, according to Freud, or Jack's unconscious mind, or his psyche, if you will. 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:56.400 I think Lloyd is that like crave it's like a physical manifestation of Jack's craving for alcohol. 00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:59.279 Hence why he would be a bartender. 00:21:59.440 --> 00:21:59.680 Yes. 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:07.200 Not only a bartender, but a bartender at a bar that we know has no alcohol. 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:12.000 And has the exact whiskey he likes. 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.119 Yeah, and made the exact way he likes it. 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.599 Like he's met this person before. 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:20.720 Why would that be? 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:41.119 But then he's also kind of that devil on his shoulder as well, because he's trying to get him to consume this alcohol, but he's also feeding him little lies about Wendy, little lies about Danny, and it's uh it's interesting. 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:47.440 I I kind of just had almost an epiphany a few moments ago. 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.920 I will not discuss in this episode. 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:55.200 We will discuss it in the next one. 00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:01.519 Um it will pertain more to the next episode than it will here. 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:05.839 And I kind of want to talk to you about it first without being recorded. 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.559 Sorry guys, you're not gonna get to hear that one. 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:10.240 It's just because I'm special. 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:16.000 But so I have some things I would like to talk about the film. 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:29.200 Um, as you guys know, kind of like my thing is the filmography of it, and I thought that this would be a really fun one to kind of look up some behind the scenes, kind of what was going on. 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:48.799 And so just so that you're aware, so the iconic blood scene, it took nine days to rig up and used roughly 200 to 300 gallons of artificial blood pumping out of the elevator shafts. 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:50.000 Oh wow. 00:23:50.559 --> 00:24:09.279 Nine days to set that single scene up, and that was the most blood ever on screen at the time, and I do believe it chapter two took took the reins on that one. 00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:12.319 I think they use 900 gallons, I think. 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:13.599 Don't quote me on that. 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.880 I'm that just ADHD memory. 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.079 So a little quip about something. 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:54.000 So there is a little bit of the moon landing conspiracy involved with this film due to the fact that Stanley Kubrick was um lightly accused of filming the Apollo 11 Moon Landing, and it's uh it was debunked, but a fan theory claims that Kubrick used the film as a hidden confession to helping NASA fake the 1969 moon landing to things like Danny's Apollo 19 sweater. 00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:03.279 It didn't say Apollo 19, it was Apollo 11, but and then also the room. 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:11.200 So it was debunked, but it was kind of silly that at the time Stanley Kubrick was kind of getting some fire over that. 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:16.240 The iconic, very iconic, here's Johnny. 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:25.839 So Jack Nicholson actually improvised that line based on Ed McFarron's nightly intro into the tonight show. 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:26.480 What? 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:41.599 And that scene required about sixty doors over three days because Nicholson, a former volunteer fire marshal, tore through the prop doors too easily. 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:49.200 So but my my question my question, who the hell's Johnny? 00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:54.000 I that's I I think it might be Is that what he says? 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:55.519 Johnny Carson. 00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:57.680 That's hilarious. 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:13.039 Now, here's here's something that's kind of I don't know how necessarily I feel about this, but so the five-year-old child star who played Danny did not know he was making a horror film. 00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:20.720 Stanley Kubrick and his parents told him they were filming a drama about a family living in a hotel. 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:22.079 My God. 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:28.160 So the terror that that boy has, it's all real for him. 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:29.119 It's terrible. 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:36.559 When he's riding his bicycle and sees those two girls down the hallway, he did not know those girls were going to be there. 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.680 So they gave the poor boy trauma to represent trauma. 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:40.799 100%. 00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:43.279 That's crazy. 00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:50.640 But that's just a few things that that I thought were interesting that I wanted to add to this episode just because of how. 00:26:52.720 --> 00:27:06.400 So it's just kind of like with our very first episode where we talk about um Psycho by Robert Block kind of paving the way for horror films that we have now. 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:18.400 And The Shining kind of was that evolutionary gift that we got from that aspect, and then everything kind of fell through after The Shining. 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:49.839 It was kind of like it took the reins of being a standalone kind of foundation for what we have as horror films today, and it's it was interesting to to see it from this lens, and it it will always kind of just be there as like I enjoyed it, and I'm also okay not watching it again. 00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:50.799 Yeah. 00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:55.440 But what are your end thoughts on that? 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:08.319 I don't think you understand how hard it is not to say anymore because of I'm I tried to figure out what would what would uh bleed into the next one. 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:14.400 But I so I think I've said what I can say about this particular movie. 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:27.759 Yeah, it's very, very difficult not to just go into it because our next episode is going to be a little bit more meaty than what this one was. 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:32.079 There really wasn't a whole lot to kind of unpack with The Shining. 00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:37.200 Um, but what we're gonna do next, there is. 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:43.200 And so hopefully you guys enjoy the next episode, which will be Doctor Sleep. 00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:48.640 And I am excited to sit down and really unpack that one. 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:52.319 And that one could potentially be our longest episode yet. 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.839 So there's just so much. 00:28:54.079 --> 00:29:11.119 Um I'm I'm willing to go as long as it takes to get out what we need to give this film the writing by Stephen King, the acting, and the writers who developed the films the credit it actually deserves. 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.960 So hopefully you guys enjoyed this episode on The Shining. 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:32.079 I had a lot of fun uh getting back into this, and I had a lot more fun with Doctor's Sleep, and who knows, maybe Carrie or Firestarter or something along those lines might make it into that group because they're kind of coming back. 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.559 And they're all connected. 00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:37.599 So, but I hope you guys enjoyed. 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:42.240 I hope everybody's doing okay, and we will talk to you guys in the next one. 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:43.359 Thank you.