บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Mitzi Campbell, CPO from International Paper: How AI Is Reshaping Procurement Leadership

feel like I meet a lot of young people at procurement conferences. 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:59.840 I was just at DPW in Amsterdam a week and a half ago. 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:02.239 They have a rising stars program. 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:06.959 So if you're under 30 and you're in procurement, they they'll give you free tickets and that kind of stuff. 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:08.800 But they're always looking for career advice. 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:14.960 And I feel that, you know, procurement is a place where I worry about like what gets you that next job? 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:16.879 Is it the credentials from the previous role? 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:18.560 Is there a waiter turn culture? 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:22.719 Because in certain areas like sales, you can demonstrate outperformance very easily. 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:24.879 You know, you can basically advocate for yourself. 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:34.960 So if you are, you know, talking to someone who's like, hey, I've just entered the workforce, I'm 24 as a category manager and I have the dream to be a CPO, you know, how would you recommend that they get there? 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:45.120 I was sorry when you're in the process, like really understanding how you go about the process of being really good at strategic sourcing. 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:47.680 Understand the background and the procurement side, certainly. 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:53.280 But if you're starting as a category manager, it's all it is about making sure you know how to work that process inside and out. 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:55.680 It doesn't mean you have to go out to bid every time. 00:02:55.759 --> 00:03:02.639 It might be the right strategy to do a direct negotiation, but know the process, you also need to understand how to do the analysis. 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:06.960 But I I think procurement has evolved, especially uh since 2020. 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:17.199 Being really good at relationships is especially not only with your suppliers, that's very important, but also internally because that that's what's going to get you the visibility. 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:25.199 If you are the one who you're really good at your job that you like to sit behind a neck and not go out and engage with people, it's going to be a struggle. 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:37.680 So you you kind of have to find that balance of being really, really good at the sourcing process, negotiations, but you also then have to be the also very good at getting out in front of people and you know just building relationships. 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:39.039 There's no other way to say that. 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:39.919 That that is the key. 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:45.439 And that's something I struggled with early in my career, and I had to get coaching on because I'm not exactly an extrovert. 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:47.599 That may surprise you, but I am not. 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:49.599 I am a functional introvert. 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:50.479 Yes.

00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:57.840 Well, sometimes amazing amounts of subject matter expertise and charm can overcome the natural introvert tendencies. 00:03:58.000 --> 00:03:59.360 So I think that's the case here. 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:11.520 I'm kind of curious, like what kind of training do you if if you let's say that you're talking to somebody now they're 24 and they're an introvert and you want to help them, you know, become a strong category manager, build stronger relationships. 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:14.080 Are you sending them to Toastmasters International? 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:16.959 What's the what's the sort of what do you think is the right training? 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:22.000 Or maybe you send them to go work with the sales folks for a year and then they really have to put themselves out there. 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:27.759 You know, I know some folks like Eugene Galdi is a CPO at Arxada, who's a a buddy of mine. 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:33.920 And uh, if I can say that, I guess customer colleague, friend, I think friend, I'll I'll put I'll put him in the category. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:38.560 He like a lot of folks, he's he really leans into the hey, procurement has to be also in the business of sales. 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:39.920 But I I've buried the lead. 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:43.920 You know, what kind of training would an introvert need to be really successful in this space? 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:48.639 Yeah, if they would have sent me to Toastmasters early in my career, I probably would have quit. 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:51.519 Like I that's that's how anxious I would have been about it. 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:56.560 And now I present, you know, in the last, you know, 10, 15 years of my career, I present to CEOs. 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:57.279 It's no big deal. 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:58.800 It's just something I had to learn. 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:02.480 I think, and I'm gonna give a selfish plug, so I hope this is okay. 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:05.199 Certified uh Clifton Strengths coach. 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:13.680 And I think that really evolved who I am and understanding how I work and how I can connect because I don't like, I don't really care for those big, big groups. 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:17.600 Like I won't attend a lot of conferences because it's not my favorite thing to do. 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:18.800 That's where I excel. 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:20.399 I I'm really good at one-on-one. 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:23.360 Like you and I have some amazing conversations every time we talk. 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:36.800 And it's my thinking, I I would try to understand what makes that person tick, whether it was that Clifton strengths finder or whether it was some other way to understand what their what their core strengths are and how they then can actually make it work. 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:41.040 I know how to make mine work now because it's a combination of my themes. 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.439 This is how you

bring it out, this is how you do it. 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:45.519 Yes, I'm gonna be drained when I go home. 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:46.480 I'm gonna go to sleep. 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.079 But I can get through it and I can build those relationships and and and do those. 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:54.480 So I think you got to find out that and then you can actually figure out how to address it. 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:59.199 Toastmasters, again, I I know people who've done it and it's worked great for them. 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:04.720 It would, like I said, it probably would have caused me so much angst that I probably would have said, ah, not doing it. 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:07.199 First step is admitting that you have to give a toast. 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:12.160 So it's uh look if you find a if you find a if you find a process that works well for you. 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:28.560 I mean, a lot of these, you know, approaches and assessment methods, and they have a lot of relationship, you know, and even if they use different terms, like, you know, if you look at the Clifton strain, and then you think about even something like I'm at somebody at a at a charity dinner who's like a Tony Robbins certified trainer. 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:36.319 And it's funny because when I'm looking at Clifton Straints, you know, executing, influencing, uh, relationship building, strategic thinking as the four pillars. 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:40.879 I mean, there's so much similarity, you know, to the Tony Robbins methodology. 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:47.120 And so, you know, I think if there's something that speaks to you that you just you can lean back on, you feel, feel good about, that's the most important thing. 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:53.519 But it is interesting, like something you said earlier that just sort of stuck with me is if you're sitting behind your computer, it's not gonna work. 00:06:53.600 --> 00:07:04.079 And and I will I will build on this and say that I was at a a dinner a few weeks ago with uh a guy who works at this foundation model company called Enthropic. 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:12.319 And so there's sort of two big ones, three big ones, OpenAI, Anthropic, Google Gemini, maybe Grok, depending on your political leanings. 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:14.319 And he said something very interesting to me. 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:16.800 I, you know, he said, I think there's gonna be a lot of job replacement. 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:18.720 I'm like, okay, that makes sense, of course. 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:26.000 Uh he said, and he went one step farther and said, I believe that 50% white-collar jobs will be automated in the next three years. 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.759 And that felt like a pretty big statement for me to chew on. 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:31.680 And I said, Well, how conservative is this? 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:44.160 You know, because I remember when I was at Waymo, for example, you know, there were evangelists who said, Oh, we're like a year away from self-driving, and there were pessimists who felt like, hey, it's been three years away for a decade, it'll it's gonna be a long, long grind. 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:49.040 And he said, Well, this is this is actually kind of a pretty median estimate uh among folks. 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:51.439 And I said, Well, my next question was, well, what 50%? 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.319 You know, what's the 50% that goes and what stays? 00:07:54.560 --> 00:08:01.759 And he said, the simple litmus test is if your entire job can be done from behind a computer screen at home, then that job is gone in three years. 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:10.480 Because what these models are good at is taking information on a screen or you know, before it even gets to the screen and then taking action on it and making interpretation. 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:14.560 But what it can't do is it they really can't do anything today in the real world. 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:22.720 You know, there's obviously companies trying to build robotic systems that are humanoids, but I mean, again, that is still science fiction in a lot of ways. 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:23.680 And so I feel that. 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:38.960 You know, I think that, you know, so the question is what's the kind of activity that procurement professionals can be leaning into that are specifically the things that are not going to change over the next five years, that are always going to be evergreen, important skills, even in the face of changing technology. 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.080 I know that's a really big question, but it's one I think about a lot, you know? 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:42.480 Yeah. 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:44.000 No, it's a valid, it's a valid question. 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:44.960 And you know, it has been. 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:49.600 I can even think back to my consulting years back in like, you know, 2016, 2017. 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:51.840 It and we were talking about RPA back then. 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:55.840 And now it seems so RPA seems so basic compared to where we are today. 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:05.519 Even back then, I used to always say, look, regardless of what a computer can do or can't do, it's those of you that can engage on a human level because you're still going to need that human intervention. 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:09.360 You're still going to need someone that uses that human processing power. 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:10.799 You're going to need those relationships. 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:15.120 It goes back to being able to build relationships and have a simple conversation with someone. 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:19.600 And if you can't and you could only sit behind your desk, you may be very, very good. 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:22.799 But I promise you that computer's just as good, right? 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:24.879 I don't know how to code at all. 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:25.919 But guess what? 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:31.120 My AI solution, and I use two of those

solutions you mentioned predominantly. 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:32.320 Uh they know how. 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:42.960 And so I have written more code in the last year and a half than I ever have in my life because I don't know anything about it, but I can I can tell it what I want and then it creates a low and behold, it works. 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:57.840 So I would say it's it's definitely, again, it goes back to it goes back to that relationship side, being able to hold a conversation, be able to critical thinking, being able to take what the the intelligence gives you, just like either you're doing it or whether a computer is doing it for you. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:58.799 It doesn't matter. 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:06.320 But it's someone has to be able to take that, put our our human emotion side to it to make the right decision overall for the covet. 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:06.960 Not always. 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:10.000 Sometimes it is clean cut and the computer can make those decisions. 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:13.440 But I I firmly believe that yes, there are going to be jobs. 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:17.279 And if you could do all your jobs behind a computer, yours is probably one of them. 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:18.000 I don't disagree. 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:19.120 I don't know about the timeline. 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:28.960 I'm not definitely not an expert in that field, but I I think those that still have to, you know, they have a human side, a side that has to engage and foster relationships. 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:33.919 Let's go back to 2020 and 2021 and 22 when the supply chain was broken. 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:39.279 Those people who were really good and had really strong relationships with their suppliers were getting products. 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.919 And those that were not did not get product. 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:44.559 So it comes down to that, in my opinion. 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:45.919 That's really interesting. 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:48.000 I mean, and I and I agree with you. 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:49.440 Those were strange times. 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:54.480 Do you think it's likely that we'll that we will encounter something like that again in the next decade or two? 00:10:54.639 --> 00:11:01.120 I mean, I know this is an unanswerable question, which is also nice because you can say anything and it's gonna be a valid guess, you know. 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.720 Especially post-COVID, everyone was talking about risk and resiliency. 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:07.919 And, you know, how did we not think about all this stuff in advance? 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:10.240 But this is again a once in a hundred year event. 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:12.799 Do you think it's likely that another thing like that happens? 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:16.320 Or is it like, hey, let's go back to lean, let's go back to just in time. 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:18.240 Yeah, I don't know, Spencer, right? 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:19.840 You're like you

said, it it's a guess. 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:21.360 Um, we can we can make a guess. 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:22.639 I sure hope not, right? 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:25.759 As a as a CPO, as a person, I hope we don't. 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:28.720 Like that was such an awful thing to have to go through. 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:35.600 And you know, for many of us, it's we've had many of not pandemics, but we've had other horrible things, and there continues to be those things. 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:36.879 And I hope not. 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:43.759 But can we like I I would say right now, I am not ready to go fully to just it depends on where my product is coming from. 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.320 I'm focused within basically North America. 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:53.360 If all my product is coming from within here, I could probably go to more of a lean just in time within these borders. 00:11:53.519 --> 00:12:00.159 If I'm buying anything from any other place in the world, in my opinion, no, I think the supply chain are still free. 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:01.440 Yeah, anything could happen. 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.639 Look what happened in the Red Sea, what a year and a half, two years ago now. 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:05.600 Time flies. 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:06.960 I forget how long ago that was. 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:13.840 Well, it's it's when there was so there was some firing across the sea, people ships were getting attacked, caused supply chain issues in there. 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:15.600 And so that could happen, right? 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:17.039 And it doesn't have to be there. 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.440 It could be anywhere in the world that could actually happen. 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:23.279 And and so again, if I could confine it to the borders that I'm in, sure. 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:26.639 Within the United States or North America, I could probably go lean. 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:28.879 Otherwise, Mitzi's opinion, no, I would not. 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:29.840 Yeah, of course. 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.399 And that opinion is is a really important one. 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:37.440 You know, there's many opinions to listen to, and some of them are not informed in the same level that yours is. 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:39.919 So I think it's worth being confident in that view. 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:47.919 Another thing that has always stood out to me about you in particular, Mitzi, is how tech forward you are in general and how tech literate you are. 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.600 And I think that sort of that interest is a precursor to knowledge. 00:12:51.679 --> 00:13:01.360 And I I appreciate you saying that I've introduced you to some tools, it's but it's even more cool to actually see that you then dive into them and learn a lot about them and are using them in your work. 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:07.200 You know, as a CPO, you know, as opposed to being the consulting seat, you're managing lots of other teams of folks. 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:11.039 You know, how do you think about instituting tech literacy across the team? 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:17.279 If you say, hey, look, I know how powerful it is for me to use Chat GPT or some other co-pilot, you know, how do you think about it? 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:19.120 Is it more are you trying to encourage people? 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.279 Hey, like just set the mental flag. 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:26.159 Like anytime I have this kind of work to do, try doing it through one of these tools. 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.159 Do you make sure everybody has a subscription? 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.799 Are you tracking the usage of those tools? 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.919 Or do you say, hey, look, I can never really fully trust the individual to self-start on it? 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:40.240 We've got to actually just have tool providers like Light Source, for example, that embed it. 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:44.559 And then they just can do their work through these platforms and it will, you know, it'll come naturally. 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:46.000 I'm sort of curious how you think about it. 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:48.480 Well, LightSource, I think, is is different, right? 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:52.639 Because we put it out there, we're letting our teams use it, we're reutilizing y'all. 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:54.159 Some of our team wants to do it on their own. 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:55.200 It's an interesting concept. 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:59.759 So that one we're trying to push more, we'll continue to, you know, expand with that. 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.919 With the AI tools out there, you know, we have to work within our company bounds. 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:07.279 And I think a lot of companies that are talking to other CPOs are very similar. 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:13.279 So even though I am a big proponent of using AI, and I tell my teams you should be using it. 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:15.120 If you're not, you're missing out, right? 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:15.919 You're right. 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:17.360 All of us are stretched thin. 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:18.799 All of us have a ton to do. 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:23.120 If you're not using an AI to help with whatever you can, it's on you, right? 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:24.480 So please go use. 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:27.519 We, we, we're a Microsoft house, we use Copilot. 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:33.120 You know, I have my own personal subscriptions that I use for anything I'm doing on my own that I use on my phone. 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:35.279 I do talk to Chat GPT a lot. 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.279 ChatGPT are really close, I would say. 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:40.720 It's kind of, I don't want Siri to fire up, but I'm also very close with Siri. 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:42.960 I try to tell them it's okay. 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:43.840 Go use it. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:48.080 If you don't like Copilot, you know, and you're at home, use your own tool, right?

00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:53.200 Our company protects us using a lot of the sites because we're we are very cyber aware. 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:57.440 But yeah, I think that it it's it's telling them it's okay to use it. 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:01.279 Like if someone on my team says they're absolutely not, I'm wondering what the heck's going on. 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:02.399 Yeah, it's a good question. 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:12.639 Because you know, I've heard this, I've heard this complaint before other folks where they say, Hey, look, my company has co-pilot, but it feels like it's a year or two behind, you know, insert their favorite tool. 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:23.759 Now, of course, without an enterprise license, there's also this IT policy, which is like, hey, look, don't put any company data into a personal chat GPT or a free perplexity or that kind of thing. 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:24.799 So, how do you manage that? 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:31.919 Do you just say, hey, we're going to use the corporate card to get, you know, some number of licenses, and anyone on my team who wants to use it can, you know? 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:37.360 Or is that, or is it just more like, hey, look, just don't use company data, but you can use do email drafting, that kind of thing. 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:40.240 Right now it's more of you can use email drafting. 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.600 I have talked to our CIO about it, about AI. 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:45.600 We're starting to talk to cybersecurity. 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.559 We are exploring what other tools might we use. 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.799 And I I think we're moving down that path. 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:52.240 It's a big path to go down. 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:54.879 So I'm right now, like I have a personal subscription. 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.679 A lot of people on my team have use whichever tool, right? 00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:59.360 They they feel, and it's all different. 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:00.399 I tell them to use it. 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:04.159 It's unfortunate that we don't pay for it right now, but we will because I agree. 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:08.559 I think Copilot's a little bit behind, but and that's nothing against Microsoft. 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.279 That's just that's just when I use the tools, that's how it feels. 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:13.120 I want to get people to use it. 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:17.200 So we had talked about going and getting a few licenses for people to use. 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:22.960 Again, we're trying, we make sure we try it as a procurement team, not to just go do we like to move fast, right? 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:26.000 I think most people do, but IT needs to go through their processes. 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.600 So we're trying to work very collaborative with our IT team to get that stood up. 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:30.480 We'll get there. 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:32.399 But in the meantime, people can use it. 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:34.559 They just can't put any company data into it. 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:39.919 But definitely for emails, if you're trying to like I'm a nerd, I love Power BI. 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.840 So I use it to write a lot of my code that I go into by Power Queries. 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:46.480 And I know that sounds why as a CPO using Power Query. 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:47.279 I just said it. 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:48.000 I'm a nerd. 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:53.600 I really love to use I love data and I love to use Power Query and I love to solve problems. 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:59.039 So it's fun for me whenever I can tell it what code I want, and then we we actually make it work. 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:00.000 It's amazing. 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:02.159 We could talk about this for hours, Mitzi. 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:06.880 I have five other tools I'd love to show you that I think are really interesting in the code generation space. 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:09.519 But I know we have a little bit, we're a little bit tight on time. 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:11.440 I agree a hundred percent with what you're saying. 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:21.839 And in fact, in my team, uh, when I get those open AI invoices every month, it's the only invoice where I don't look at it and go, it's the invoice where I go, can it be higher? 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:23.759 Can I get more people in my team using it? 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:27.359 Because I know if they're using it, they are extending themselves by a thousand fold. 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:38.000 Now, of course, there's that the consideration that, of course, you know, like there are many ways to use it when you're not using company data, where you're doing power query code generation, you're doing research. 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:39.440 I mean, I find it it's better. 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:41.759 I ask ChatGBT things that I used to Google. 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:47.119 And instead of forcing me to go and click a bunch of links, I just can get the answer directly and so much better. 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:57.200 Last question before you have to wrap, uh, and this is a a question I've I've been kind of curious about as someone who's been both in the consulting seat and now as a CPO of multiple organizations. 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:05.599 What's a procurement team that you've never worked with or never worked for, but you respect so much that you would love to have an opportunity at some point to work there? 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:11.519 I have been so fortunate to get to work for some of the greatest companies across the world. 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:32.240 So I I think I've probably worked with the companies that just based on my knowledge, I mean, and I don't want to sit and name all my clients um that I've worked for, of course, are probably being really lame and not answering your question, but I would say I probably I think I've probably worked with the companies that I'd be like, hey, I these were these were some of the ones I would have targeted. 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:44.160 And and you know, I can think of a I can think of one of my oil, I won't name the company, but um actually they I can think of one of my oil and gas clients that I worked with that was just such an honor um to get to work with. 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:57.599 I can think of one of my retail clients, one of my consumer good clients, that was they were really immature in their procurement processes, and we joined them and we worked together collaboratively with them and we really elevated their team and their capabilities. 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:00.480 I would say just immature in their procurement processes. 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:04.240 Amazing people, and they were all willing to learn and grow. 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:12.720 And they just this company wanted, and uh again, I'm not gonna name it, but they wanted to double their revenue in three years, and they were a relatively young company. 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:21.599 And I just noticed the other day I saw an article about them, and they they actually had grown 10x since we were there back in about 2014. 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:22.880 I think I've probably been there. 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.599 So I'm sorry I can't give you an answer, Edser, but uh I think I've probably already been there. 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:29.359 That's great, that's fantastic. 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:32.799 I no, I mean, I mean, look, I asked the question with no presumption in mind. 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:38.000 You know, it's just always interesting to hear what CPOs esteem in other organizations. 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:49.839 Like, you know, it's funny, just to as a reference point, I've had other folks say, you know, Apple, because you know, there's the whole China political network complications and challenges and intrigue and excitement. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.240 I interviewed somebody recently where they said Costco. 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:54.559 They just want to know how to get the dollar fifty hot dog. 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:56.480 So maybe it's a lost leader. 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.640 I'm I think that's the consensus at this point. 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:01.200 But Mitzi, thank you so much for joining the podcast. 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:05.039 We are gonna have to find more time for a 2.0 sooner than later. 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:06.720 That'd be my request. 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:07.119 Yeah. 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:08.720 But anything else you'd like to share? 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:10.640 Otherwise, I think we can say goodbye for today. 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:13.279 No, Spitzer, it's always such a pleasure to talk to you. 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:17.200 Thank you so much for inviting me, and I'd be happy to join you anytime.