บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Stop Trying: The Natural Medium with John Johnson

and I dunno why I knew I made sense of it at 11, 12 years old, but I said, but that means you must be dead. 00:05:13.673 --> 00:05:18.832 And all of a sudden I shot up in my bed and I heard a scream next door from the neighbour. 00:05:19.312 --> 00:05:22.043 And it was, the parents had just found their son dead in the living room. 00:05:23.906 --> 00:05:29.036 I could rationalise it as an older person and say, well, you know, but the thing is he was 18 years old. 00:05:29.036 --> 00:05:31.046 He wasn't 60, 70, 80. 00:05:31.046 --> 00:05:33.086 It doesn't mean, obviously young people don't die. 00:05:33.596 --> 00:05:35.426 But he was very fit, very healthy. 00:05:35.426 --> 00:05:36.776 He did charity cycles. 00:05:36.776 --> 00:05:38.036 He trained, he went to the gym. 00:05:38.036 --> 00:05:41.396 There was no reason for him to, in, in an announcing world to pass. 00:05:41.936 --> 00:05:54.806 So those little moments, really looking back the way it really started to, I suppose, recognise that this awareness is something I've always had, but just not really making sense of it or thinking it's normal, like most people. 00:05:55.326 --> 00:05:59.407 But I, I, never like to say, that's a gift, for example. 00:05:59.617 --> 00:06:04.027 I don't, I don't really believe in the gift of, I think it's something that's part of all of us. 00:06:04.355 --> 00:06:18.027 So growing up, I think really becoming aware of that and being aware of my experiences, recognising as I got older, that actually this was happening all the way through was, um, was quite a, an awakening, I suppose in many ways. 00:06:19.145 --> 00:06:19.955 It's interesting. 00:06:19.955 --> 00:06:25.715 I, I can imagine if you're anything like me, your father telling you to stay away from it, it's almost like the forbidden box. 00:06:25.715 --> 00:06:27.905 Don't push this button, don't open this box. 00:06:27.905 --> 00:06:30.004 You almost, there's more intrigue there. 00:06:30.185 --> 00:06:32.135 Why would, why did he take that position? 00:06:32.135 --> 00:06:42.675 Because I can imagine if, if you are, and I was so involved in, the trance and all these other, forms of mediumship, it, you know, you'd almost think he'd be sort of encouraging it in some senses. 00:06:43.052 --> 00:06:50.163 Well, growing up with his mother, who was my grandmother, um, he used to wake up during the night and all the clocks would be stopped in the house. 00:06:51.003 --> 00:06:57.242 And then the grand, his mom would say in the morning, oh, your, your uncle such and such died, or, and what time was it? 00:06:57.242 --> 00:06:57.812 Three o'clock? 00:06:57.873 --> 00:07:00.873 You know, all the, and he was always so sceptical about it. 00:07:01.362 --> 00:07:08.143 But he, I think he was a little bit scared actually, but he had so many experiences with his own mum, things happening. 00:07:08.143 --> 00:07:21.013 And he, I think he grew up in that environment, but I also believe that he also is actually very

sensitive, but he just, he denies himself to be what he is, if you like. 00:07:21.463 --> 00:07:29.203 He's, he, he was a policeman, and …so he has that mindset, which is not a bad thing for a policeman, but he has that mindset. 00:07:29.563 --> 00:07:39.883 But even when he tells me, or he told me stories to do with his police career and things like what happened, obviously not, not confidential, but things he could talk about. 00:07:40.483 --> 00:07:58.992 He used to tell me having inklings of this happening or having a feeling that this wasn't there or going somewhere and having, like, he had to go to a break-in, and he was there on his own and he, he shouted for backup, but he knew the guy was behind the door, so he didn't, he waited and then he surprised the guy ran, the guy surprising him. 00:07:58.992 --> 00:08:00.612 And I said, well, how did you know he was there? 00:08:00.838 --> 00:08:02.203 I, oh, I just had this. 00:08:02.953 --> 00:08:06.193 But when you try to get him to talk about awareness, he goes, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. 00:08:06.193 --> 00:08:06.433 nah. 00:08:06.552 --> 00:08:14.862 You know, so it, it's a very peculiar conversation to, to see sensitivity in somebody, …for them to deny sensitivity in themself. 00:08:15.773 --> 00:08:17.063 I can relate a lot to that. 00:08:17.063 --> 00:08:21.473 'cause I was a police officer for a few years and it absolutely so destroyed me, actually. 00:08:21.523 --> 00:08:28.193 I came out the other side in a right old, um, state, but seeing that kind of stuff every day, you know, is very difficult. 00:08:28.253 --> 00:08:32.242 And I distinctly remember having hunches all the time myself. 00:08:32.242 --> 00:08:39.373 People used to call me quite a, they used to call me a, well, not a very nice phrase, but almost like a, what's the word I want to use? 00:08:39.462 --> 00:08:40.513 I would just attract things. 00:08:40.513 --> 00:08:41.413 I was like a magnet. 00:08:41.413 --> 00:08:44.263 There was a swear word that went before that, but I won't say that. 00:08:44.263 --> 00:08:46.332 But I was a magnet for finding things. 00:08:46.722 --> 00:09:00.663 So you had this experience, and it with, your neighbour that was transitioning, passing over, was that then the catalyst that started to make you unfold and explore your mediumship? 00:09:00.663 --> 00:09:03.753 Because that's a very profound experience to have. 00:09:04.321 --> 00:09:10.990 Not really because, because I was so young, I was obviously in UK we would say primary six or primary seven. 00:09:11.391 --> 00:09:13.281 So I was 12, 11, 12 years old. 00:09:13.701 --> 00:09:19.221 And for me it happened, you know, everybody was crying as we'd be expected. 00:09:19.551 --> 00:09:20.841 There's still a child at the end of the day. 00:09:21.350 --> 00:09:24.051 And I was like, it's okay, you know, everything's fine. 00:09:24.051 --> 00:09:32.061 And obviously that's what people say that children do when, but it doesn't help in the moment because, you know, parents are melting down and as as expected. 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:35.811 So it wasn't really, I didn't really change anything. 00:09:35.841 --> 00:09:46.821 The only thing, I suppose when I got a little bit older, I started to work, um, full time when I was 16 and one of the part of my job I had to go to people's houses. 00:09:47.211 --> 00:10:00.230 And throughout from 16, all the way through to early twenties, which is when I then start to went to discover, um, I would go to people's houses and I would sit out in the, the, the van and I'd feel this. 00:10:00.321 --> 00:10:02.990 I don't want to go in and I don't want to shut the door. 00:10:03.260 --> 00:10:06.980 And I don't know why I don't, and I have to go 'cause there's an appointment, but I don't know why. 00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:09.350 I just don't, I can't feel, oh my God, what am I gonna do? 00:10:10.071 --> 00:10:14.510 And eventually, obviously I have to go and shut the door and I would shut the door. 00:10:14.510 --> 00:10:18.230 And there was a lady opened the door and or dressing ground dressing gown. 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:21.771 And she says, um, uh, what are you here for? 00:10:21.891 --> 00:10:25.191 And I said, well, I'm, I'm here to, to service the alarm system. 00:10:25.191 --> 00:10:31.041 And she said, oh, I'm really sorry, but can we rebook it because my husband just died this morning in a car accident. 00:10:32.031 --> 00:10:35.990 I'd be like, oh, oh, uh, of course, absolutely no problem. 00:10:35.990 --> 00:10:40.010 And I would leave and I'd sit in the van and I'd sit and go, oh my God, why did I going open the door? 00:10:40.010 --> 00:10:41.480 Why did, why did I just not listen? 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:43.730 And, but obviously that's, that's your job. 00:10:44.421 --> 00:10:45.921 I've been back to this lady's house. 00:10:46.281 --> 00:10:48.081 It would've been maybe three, four weeks later. 00:10:48.681 --> 00:10:54.921 And as soon as I walked in the door, I just had this, and again, it's not me, I wasn't trained, developed. 00:10:54.980 --> 00:11:03.411 It wasn't like I was in development circles or groups or anything, but I would get into the house and all of a sudden I would have this Mickey Mouse in my head. 00:11:03.411 --> 00:11:05.451 And I'm thinking, why, why am I thinking of Mickey Mouse? 00:11:05.781 --> 00:11:07.041 What's that got to do with what I don't? 00:11:07.086 --> 00:11:11.901 And I had, I wasn't, as I said, I'm not searching, looking, trying to be aware of anything. 00:11:11.901 --> 00:11:16.701 I just had Mickey Mouse and I'm thinking, Mickey Mouse, what we, that's a crazy thing to remember. 00:11:17.151 --> 00:11:19.880 'cause I've never been to like Disneyland or whatever. 00:11:19.880 --> 00:11:22.551 But so I start doing the work. 00:11:23.211 --> 00:11:25.730 I says, okay, if I'll go upstairs, yeah, no problem. 00:11:25.730 --> 00:11:32.750 I go upstairs and in the bedroom there's a photo for her and her

husband in Disneyland with, uh, Mickey Mouse. 00:11:32.979 --> 00:11:33.129 How. 00:11:33.531 --> 00:11:35.781 And I'm looking at going, holy crap, what is that? 00:11:35.841 --> 00:11:51.051 You know, what is, is that, or is that just so it, it makes, well, it made me, because of my own scepticism, it made me kinda go, how does that, and what does that, and I'm not really sure, but these little moments happen so many times over those first years. 00:11:51.500 --> 00:11:56.331 That's what got me to become either, I'm either losing their mind or there's something else happening. 00:11:57.312 --> 00:11:57.763 Hmm. 00:11:57.942 --> 00:12:04.293 It's an interesting point, even that distinction of, realising at that point that the thoughts that you were having were not your own. 00:12:04.293 --> 00:12:08.993 Because I feel that that's always one of the, million dollar questions at the start of mediumship, isn't it? 00:12:09.213 --> 00:12:19.793 You know, how do I know if it's my thoughts or, or that of the spirit world where you just know if you are in a place, you know, like that, where you've just had that kind of a warning come to you or that sense come to you and then suddenly you get Mickey ba. 00:12:20.182 --> 00:12:21.893 That's not a John fort is it? 00:12:22.062 --> 00:12:23.173 In that moment. 00:12:23.533 --> 00:12:25.302 So it sounds like the spirit world. 00:12:25.302 --> 00:12:34.373 We're obviously trying to get your attention in one way or another and, um you know, even what you've had happen with your now does bare similarities to, my granddad. 00:12:34.457 --> 00:12:36.197 It's kind of skipped a generation in my family. 00:12:36.197 --> 00:12:41.988 My mom, you ask her, she's open-minded, she believes in it, but that, that's as far as it goes. 00:12:42.057 --> 00:12:45.718 You know, and it's kind of skipped down a generation for me. 00:12:46.138 --> 00:12:52.168 So you've come on today and um, you know, you're a beautiful medium and a beautiful soul, and I do appreciate that. 00:12:52.408 --> 00:12:58.528 We're gonna be talking about the natural medium, which is a philosophy that you've built up over 10 years. 00:12:59.488 --> 00:13:05.158 Why have you spent so much time on, uh, this natural medium, and what does that mean to you? 00:13:06.048 --> 00:13:20.668 Well, I think as everybody else who does development, we generally, I often say we, we sort of all start for very similar kinda reasons, is that there's a sort of a list of things that happens that's either because we are in awareness, we're having experiences. 00:13:21.118 --> 00:13:24.358 It could be because trauma, it could be because somebody dies. 00:13:24.358 --> 00:13:27.988 It could be because there's a massive thing happening in our own life. 00:13:28.048 --> 00:13:38.998 So there's a, there's things that are quite relevant to many people that will make us become curious to, to discover what, what's happening, what's going on, what opened the door to this awareness. 00:13:39.327 --> 00:13:43.098 And for me, I used to, I started just to meditate. 00:13:44.268 --> 00:13:45.228 That's the only thing I did. 00:13:45.317 --> 00:13:46.728 I didn't do training courses. 00:13:46.728 --> 00:13:47.898 I didn't do workshops. 00:13:47.947 --> 00:13:50.827 I just meditated to the point that it became addiction. 00:13:51.518 --> 00:13:55.268 So I would actually meditate nine times a week religiously. 00:13:55.598 --> 00:13:57.577 I would do Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. 00:13:57.638 --> 00:14:11.858 I would do two Saturday and two and Sunday just because whatever I, but for, with me being in my own space, I would just sit and I'd just have this compulsion to constantly sit in presence, but not for the spirit world. 00:14:11.888 --> 00:14:18.338 Not for communication, not for awareness, not for simply just to, just to see if I could just be quiet. 00:14:19.598 --> 00:14:23.858 So I did that for nine times a week, almost every single week for over a year. 00:14:24.638 --> 00:14:28.238 And then I decided to go to the spiritual church. 00:14:29.378 --> 00:14:34.148 And then when I go to the church to start telling you, you have to do this and you have to do this, and you need to do this. 00:14:34.508 --> 00:14:40.898 And I always found it funny looking back, I had a book, I remember they gave me a book to read, uh, or a book recommended. 00:14:40.898 --> 00:14:43.028 And it was about exercises and practises. 00:14:43.268 --> 00:14:51.968 And I remember it said, and um, you know, when you meditate, set your alarm for 30 minutes so that after 30 minutes, obviously alarm goes off. 00:14:51.968 --> 00:15:01.778 And, and I, so I'm thinking, what crazy idea, because if you think about being, in, being in meditation, you're being in a slightly altered state. 00:15:02.648 --> 00:15:10.028 And if you're moving into, and you're having this wonderful moment, and all of a sudden there's a clason going on telling you that it's over and it's killing you, snapping you back. 00:15:10.598 --> 00:15:13.687 Well, for me, that that like, but that doesn't feel very natural for me. 00:15:14.625 --> 00:15:36.014 So the more I started to read Reflect, and I'm, and because of my own, I've got a bit of a crazy head and, um, I, I love to read between the lines of what's actually happening rather than just believe everybody because they're the teacher, which doesn't mean I'm rebellious, it just means that some things I ask questions about the teaching. 00:15:37.096 --> 00:15:50.446 So I started to recognise that the more things I was being taught, I started to recognise that some of it, I understood why I was being taught it, but I couldn't understand why everybody was being taught the same thing. 00:15:51.941 --> 00:15:56.836 So it was like, uh, I, I call it, I call it the copy paste culture, you know? 00:15:56.836 --> 00:16:06.675 So what happens is the teacher I had 20 years ago taught by another teacher, that teacher copied what that

teacher taught and now teaches that, and then the teacher that taught them now teaches what they taught. 00:16:06.675 --> 00:16:08.295 So it's a copy paste. 00:16:08.534 --> 00:16:10.784 Now, as soon as I ask the teacher, why am I doing this? 00:16:12.045 --> 00:16:13.740 Well, because, you know, this is what we do. 00:16:15.041 --> 00:16:15.971 Just the way it's done. 00:16:16.321 --> 00:16:18.510 Exactly, and that's what we've done all these years. 00:16:18.510 --> 00:16:19.531 So why are you question it? 00:16:19.561 --> 00:16:27.031 You know, sort of a, and again, not in a, a negative sense, 'cause I don't believe, um, I don't believe anybody is bad at what they do. 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.600 I believe everybody puts a hundred percent their heart and soul into it. 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.630 I believe everybody's genuine to really try to do their best. 00:16:34.081 --> 00:16:37.771 So this is not about, this is not about attacking people. 00:16:37.771 --> 00:16:41.911 It's about the, the, the challenge and the philosophy and challenging the teaching. 00:16:42.870 --> 00:16:50.161 And for me, it started to make me kinda recognise that a lot of the things I've been told to do would work for one person, but not work for three others. 00:16:50.941 --> 00:16:54.781 And then I was been, I've been told to do that when I get this, I need to do this. 00:16:54.781 --> 00:17:00.686 And I'm like, yeah, I can do it, but the person beside me can't, so why is it I can do it and they can't? 00:17:00.750 --> 00:17:03.931 And so it started open on all these questions. 00:17:03.931 --> 00:17:10.891 So eventually when I started to, uh, train with particular teachers, obviously the teacher will always teach you their philosophy. 00:17:11.850 --> 00:17:14.370 And their philosophy is always true because it's their philosophy. 00:17:15.151 --> 00:17:21.211 And then I had another teacher who would teach me something else and I started to recognise styles of teaching. 00:17:21.211 --> 00:17:24.721 This one's more mechanical, this one's more emotional, this one's more this. 00:17:24.721 --> 00:17:25.530 What's one's more that? 00:17:26.010 --> 00:17:31.320 So eventually I stood back a little bit and I said, so what's right for me? 00:17:33.030 --> 00:17:42.120 So I started to take parts of the teaching that made sense and resonated within my own awareness and started to then rebuild from these bits. 00:17:42.120 --> 00:17:42.751 Make sense? 00:17:42.751 --> 00:17:52.740 I understand why I've been taught this, I understand why this is important, but it doesn't work for me because my personality, my awareness and who I am is more inclined to do this. 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:56.430 So I started to then like reexamine. 00:17:56.430 --> 00:18:07.351 So I started to build a brand new for of my own way of philosophy from the very beginning of what it was to be sensitive, what it meant to be natural within my awareness. 00:18:07.501 --> 00:18:09.360 And what does it mean to be natural? 00:18:11.490 --> 00:18:17.581 you think about what is natural in the world, what do we have that's already natural nature. 00:18:17.641 --> 00:18:19.740 Obviously it said nature is your greatest teacher. 00:18:20.833 --> 00:18:21.132 Indeed. 00:18:22.209 --> 00:18:24.099 So what does nature do, you know? 00:18:24.099 --> 00:18:31.488 Does, does the, does the, does the flowers fight each fight against each other because they're growing in the same garden, No. 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:32.298 Well, no it doesn't. 00:18:32.298 --> 00:18:34.669 Do they, they, they coexist. 00:18:35.259 --> 00:18:35.709 exactly. 00:18:35.738 --> 00:18:37.778 They find a way to be in a nature, don't they? 00:18:38.469 --> 00:18:52.298 And, uh, the, the, the simple example I always love to kind of throw out there is, you know, when you, when you plant a seed, like whether it's a flower or a plant, when you, when you plant a seed, does it have a little arrow to say, plant me this way up. 00:18:54.563 --> 00:18:56.603 No, my mum gives me them with arrows though. 00:18:56.603 --> 00:18:59.153 'cause she knows I'm absolutely awful with gardening. 00:18:59.153 --> 00:19:02.063 She, uh, uh, gives me very strict instructions. 00:19:02.363 --> 00:19:05.273 But no, you, you, you just, you just know what to do. 00:19:05.273 --> 00:19:06.892 You know where it goes, don't you? 00:19:06.913 --> 00:19:07.123 Yeah. 00:19:07.392 --> 00:19:07.722 Well, yeah. 00:19:07.963 --> 00:19:09.432 Nature takes care of it, doesn't it? 00:19:09.505 --> 00:19:10.135 It does. 00:19:10.153 --> 00:19:16.603 you, as long as you put it in the, if you put it in good soil and you water it and you give it light, it will become what it's meant to be.. 00:19:18.113 --> 00:19:29.303 What made you have, because the fact that you even started, uh, uh, this kind of, um, crazy amount of sitting, you know, …I kind of wish I'd done that myself at the, at the start, to be quite honest with you. 00:19:29.513 --> 00:19:31.132 But where did you get this? 00:19:31.193 --> 00:19:33.413 Um, what and why did you do it? 00:19:33.413 --> 00:19:35.453 And what made you sort of take that route? 00:19:35.453 --> 00:19:48.203 Because it made much, as you were saying, that made me feel like that's what a lot of people miss out on now is, you know, the, the early days, what the pioneers said back a hundred years ago, they would sit, they would sit, they would sit, they would discover their own power. 00:19:48.413 --> 00:19:50.573 They, uh, before they even attempted that. 00:19:50.573 --> 00:20:02.723 And it, and it really felt to me as you were explaining your experience in the circle, because of that strong grounding you had, you were, you were in a place of already, uh, knowing to pick what resonated and what didn't. 00:20:02.723 --> 00:20:04.673 But most people skip that stage. 00:20:04.673 --> 00:20:06.263 They don't even realise that stage. 00:20:06.263 --> 00:20:11.463 And in the, um, you know, in the land of,

uh, giving their power over to a teacher, as you say. 00:20:12.392 --> 00:20:12.632 Yeah. 00:20:12.873 --> 00:20:13.023 Yeah. 00:20:13.023 --> 00:20:21.382 I think it was actually more of, being, being curious about awareness sensitivity, but not really knowing what to do with it. 00:20:21.923 --> 00:20:26.663 And the only thing that I felt was appropriate to do was just to sit. 00:20:27.113 --> 00:20:35.603 So it was a very simple, I'd love to give a really philosophical, like a really special spiritual answer, but it was pretty much just me thinking, do you know what? 00:20:35.663 --> 00:20:38.242 I just feel like I'm gonna just start seeing if I can meditate. 00:20:39.173 --> 00:20:41.932 And I never used music. 00:20:41.992 --> 00:20:45.413 I never used like, uh, guided meditation. 00:20:45.442 --> 00:20:51.323 I never used like incense or it was simply me deciding to sit there or close my eyes. 00:20:51.712 --> 00:20:56.873 And I had absolutely darkness and nothing, and I just sat in darkness and nothing. 00:20:57.502 --> 00:21:05.632 But I think eventually, obviously as you know yourself, the more you do it, you, you sort of drop into that space quicker and quicker. 00:21:06.262 --> 00:21:16.642 But that also became a confusion because what we're taught is that you are now going to sit in the power, or you are now going to meditate. 00:21:17.482 --> 00:21:23.212 But if we really think about it in like another way, we do not meditate. 00:21:24.742 --> 00:21:26.212 We do not sit in the power. 00:21:27.053 --> 00:21:32.992 What we're actually doing is we are creating this, the space to see if meditation arises within us. 00:21:34.043 --> 00:21:37.313 So meditation arises, it's not something that we don't go and meditate. 00:21:37.642 --> 00:21:44.452 We create a space and we try to be in this energy of the soul of ourself, and we see does meditation arise within me? 00:21:44.873 --> 00:21:59.482 So for me to also, I've, I've got a whole thing to do with meditation, sitting in the power, and you know, I go around in circles with the whole thing, but is it me that sits in the power or is it me creating the space to be the power? 00:22:00.978 --> 00:22:20.028 Well, this is an interesting point, and when I first started, um, my mediumship development for a long time, I would, I even think the term sit in the power is helpful to some people, but it describes something that you're having to do, implying that you need to try in order to do it. 00:22:20.269 --> 00:22:24.619 And even the saying to someone, right, okay, you need to sit and meditate. 00:22:24.619 --> 00:22:24.798 Right? 00:22:24.798 --> 00:22:31.639 You, that, that they take from, that I need to be doing something in order to, and, you know, make that work. 00:22:31.639 --> 00:22:40.189 And what you are saying is, I think that is the correct way to phrase it, because I used to spend so long John looking for the switch, where it was and how I ramp it up. 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:50.180 And

it is about just holding that space because, you know, the, the, the biggest, one of the biggest barriers to mediumship, I feel is, is trying in itself Absolutely. 00:22:50.808 --> 00:22:51.978 it holds people back. 00:22:52.520 --> 00:23:02.810 yeah, I mean, obviously you say if, if, if you say to somebody, I mean, you need to go to a therapist, then the therapy session's not gonna work because you're telling them to do it. 00:23:02.810 --> 00:23:05.840 It's not a calling from themself, you know? 00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:08.030 So for meditation's, very simple. 00:23:08.270 --> 00:23:22.580 If you want to start meditating, give yourself permission to sit, but not sit for distraction, which is music, voice recording, um, smell, you know, you're, you're, 'cause that, that's just, that's an outside distraction. 00:23:22.580 --> 00:23:27.140 That's you using something to get away from yourself, which is the opposite of what you're trying to create. 00:23:28.010 --> 00:23:30.921 Because creating the naturalness of awareness is not out there. 00:23:30.921 --> 00:23:31.820 It's, it's in here. 00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:48.201 So if you're trying to be natural in your perception and you're trying to be naturally within the power of who you are, then for my philosophy and idea, and again, it doesn't mean it's right, but what matches for me that I don't want to have distractions that pull me away from myself. 00:23:49.221 --> 00:23:51.530 I'm wanting to be confronted with my own self. 00:23:52.250 --> 00:23:55.161 I'm wanting to be with an awareness in the power of who I am. 00:23:55.430 --> 00:23:57.711 I want to be aware that this is my thought. 00:23:59.330 --> 00:24:08.780 So it, it starts to then bring in the terminology of mediumship as well, where very common, I mean, you will, you will have your own experiences along the way. 00:24:09.290 --> 00:24:14.090 Similar where I get told when I started, you're too much in your head, for example. 00:24:15.248 --> 00:24:15.818 Oh yes. 00:24:15.818 --> 00:24:19.899 It's a term I've heard a lot as well myself and yeah. 00:24:20.459 --> 00:24:21.568 you're too much in your head. 00:24:21.689 --> 00:24:25.679 Now the problem is if I ask you, Jason, where else are you going to go? 00:24:27.568 --> 00:24:39.598 Oh, I could do in over time, I would've said, well, me, so plexus my throat chakra anywhere but the head, because you, you start to at some, for, for, me, I, the, the mind was the enemy for a period of time. 00:24:39.598 --> 00:24:42.478 But, and then I'd think, well, if I'm not in my mind, where am I? 00:24:42.478 --> 00:24:49.558 But like you, you very much strike me as someone that challenges concepts and things from your own perspective. 00:24:49.558 --> 00:24:57.959 And I've, I've been like that very much from the beginning, um, as well because, um, you can feel if it resonates or you can feel if it doesn't. 00:24:57.959 --> 00:25:11.373 But this is, this PO point about the mind is an important point because, um, a lot of people really do, um, get to the stage where they feel that they're trying to sort of shut the mind down and that that medium ship is the spirit world are using the mind, aren't they? 00:25:11.504 --> 00:25:12.974 Yeah, it's, it's of the mind. 00:25:12.974 --> 00:25:24.434 So you and I, I have to say, for me, an easy, um, sort of, well, I think it's an easy way to see it or understand it, is that what we do consciously in our daily life is the mind is the driver. 00:25:25.184 --> 00:25:38.774 So what we're trying to do with an expression and awareness is we're trying to make the conscious mind become the passenger, because we, we need the conscious mind to bring substance, language, expression, connection to express or experience. 00:25:38.774 --> 00:25:39.734 So we, we need our heads. 00:25:39.734 --> 00:25:42.014 So we can't say we're too much in our head. 00:25:42.464 --> 00:25:49.904 What we could say is, you're focusing too much on your mind because to focus too much on your thinking mind is what's happening. 00:25:49.904 --> 00:26:02.084 It's not because you're too much in it, it's just because you're giving too much focus to the area which is interfering with that sort of, you're looking for a, a, a freedom of expression rather than a judgement of expression. 00:26:03.254 --> 00:26:11.564 And if we're focusing on the thinking, then we're, we're, we're thinking about what we're gonna do with it, which means that we are, again, we're interfering with the process. 00:26:13.296 --> 00:26:15.906 All of these things that you are describing are all it's under. 00:26:15.967 --> 00:26:21.067 It's so understandable to understand why we fall down these traps when we're trying to develop. 00:26:21.307 --> 00:26:36.396 I think the first reason is because we overs skip, uh, the, the very, very, very foundational stage of which you, um, you know, you discovering your energy are discovering what, what, how your own soul that energy felt like, and then kind of going on that journey from there. 00:26:36.396 --> 00:26:50.807 But a lot of people, um, the simplicity of mediumship is what I feel makes it so difficult because in any other aspect of our life trying, um, you know, we are programmed from a very young age that that's gonna bring about rewards, don't we? 00:26:50.916 --> 00:26:53.586 And that's, and everyone loves a trier, don't they? 00:26:53.767 --> 00:26:56.886 Um, even …people who aren't successful, I've always loved triers. 00:26:57.247 --> 00:27:12.757 But that, that is the, the problem with mediumship is anything that you are doing that implies that you need to push force switch on, um, requires effort is the complete opposite and creates friction of that, of a mediumship. 00:27:12.757 --> 00:27:22.116 And obviously this is a massive, uh, massively passionate area for you because you've dedicated so much of your life to naturalness, which is a, a beautiful thing in itself. 00:27:22.800 --> 00:27:22.980 Yeah. 00:27:22.980

--> 00:27:24.270 I mean, am I there yet? 00:27:24.300 --> 00:27:25.050 Probably not. 00:27:25.140 --> 00:27:26.370 Is there still a lot to learn? 00:27:26.430 --> 00:27:27.150 Absolutely. 00:27:27.150 --> 00:27:29.610 Does the philosophy change every other week and month? 00:27:29.610 --> 00:27:46.650 Yeah, it shifts and moves because I think within really giving yourself permission to, to sort of respectfully confront yourself and really recognise what am I actually doing within my own ability and expression, and what am I teaching everybody else to do? 00:27:47.461 --> 00:27:52.350 Am I teaching them bad habits and insecurities or am I teaching them something meaningful and powerful? 00:27:53.070 --> 00:27:58.650 Because obviously every teacher will try to teach you what they think is the right way to do it. 00:27:59.971 --> 00:28:04.980 And for me, I, I don't believe I have that potential to make you into a medium. 00:28:06.270 --> 00:28:21.346 But what I can do is I can encourage you to, to allow you to have the space to become that what you are, to help you with my ability to help you see what I see within you without making you try to do what I do. 00:28:22.711 --> 00:28:27.570 So it means that you become the, you become the powerhouse in the room. 00:28:27.570 --> 00:28:29.160 It's not about John, it's about you. 00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:38.280 And if the teaching comes about the teacher, then the teacher needs to go and become a bus driver or, you know, do something else because it's, it is never about the teacher. 00:28:38.790 --> 00:28:40.620 It was always about the developing medium. 00:28:41.370 --> 00:28:48.510 And then when you start to notice that students are trying to perform like their teacher, then they've lost themselves already. 00:28:49.471 --> 00:28:53.461 'cause they'll never be able to be what their teacher is or was, or can be or is. 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:55.584 There's no way them, is it? 00:28:55.615 --> 00:28:57.775 It's, you made the point earlier. 00:28:57.834 --> 00:29:04.464 Mediumship is so individual that what works for one person really, you know, doesn't work for another person. 00:29:04.584 --> 00:29:07.375 And that's why I don't even feel you can teach mediumship. 00:29:07.404 --> 00:29:14.724 I feel that the way you teach it is by facilitating and allowing people to experiment to find their own way. 00:29:14.994 --> 00:29:21.714 And I, I've never been someone that I, I got this, listen, quite early on, my granddad used to come through saying, stop trying to be other people. 00:29:21.714 --> 00:29:22.494 That's not you. 00:29:22.494 --> 00:29:24.295 You've got to break out your box. 00:29:24.504 --> 00:29:26.184 And I've just kind of embraced that. 00:29:26.454 --> 00:29:34.584 Um, in recent times, I'm a very emotional medium and, and emotion is, is always what leads me first into, into the reading. 00:29:34.855 --> 00:29:40.434 And for anyone that's a sort of a very technical medium, uh, doesn't resonate with me. 00:29:40.584 --> 00:29:42.924 And I, I also don't feel the power behind it. 00:29:42.924 --> 00:30:01.344 I'm very much drawn to to, to the emotion and actually, so much so that, um, I would say that my readings probably, um, yes, a lot of very strong evidence comes through, but I would say that the power of the evidence most of the time is the emotion behind the pieces of the story. 00:30:01.615 --> 00:30:04.764 Um, but you do tend to fall into one or two boxes with mediums. 00:30:04.764 --> 00:30:05.065 I found. 00:30:05.065 --> 00:30:08.904 You either get emotional or technical medium, you must be an emotional medium. 00:30:08.904 --> 00:30:11.755 I, I'm very much gonna, I've leaned towards that way with you. 00:30:12.351 --> 00:30:18.701 I can, well, I can say I can un, I suppose I can be, I can be about all of everything. 00:30:18.701 --> 00:30:21.940 I can be very factual, but I can also be very emotional. 00:30:21.940 --> 00:30:38.500 But I notice that for me, my own mediumship, the way that I express my mediumship, it feels more complete when I have this feeling of the emotional expression that leads me to the evidence that then leads me to back to the emotions. 00:30:38.860 --> 00:30:43.300 So there's this, there's this unfoldment that it's not, it's not John unfolding. 00:30:43.330 --> 00:30:52.300 It's the spirit of moving me through that emotional story that brings the evidence, that brings what it needs to bring, rather than John trying to go, oh, now I've got a box. 00:30:52.300 --> 00:30:55.420 Now I need to see what colour it is, where it is, and how many things are inside it. 00:30:55.660 --> 00:30:57.250 That's John trying to do it. 00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.740 And that's not the spirit world necessarily. 00:30:59.740 --> 00:31:03.370 That's John pushing to try and sew how good he is, or that's John. 00:31:03.760 --> 00:31:21.340 If I'm like, say, I think in my, I'm always trying to be as honest as possible with students, with myself, with everybody else, and I've noticed whenever I haven't demonstrated for a period of time, my demonstrations are normally more factual, less emotional, because there's a stress of trying to get through it. 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:29.350 But when I'm, when I'm doing regular work, then I have more, I'm more relaxed, I have more fun, and I then the emotion starts to become more prominent. 00:31:29.350 --> 00:31:42.580 But I'm very conscious of catching, which is again, what I've done over the years is also part of the teaching that I do is also challenging the emotional mediums as much as challenging the factory mediums. 00:31:42.760 --> 00:31:46.390 So if somebody's an emotional medium, we can say, fantastic. 00:31:46.570 --> 00:31:50.800 But are you now staying the emotional medium because it's comfortable for you? 00:31:52.690 --> 00:31:57.040 Or are you staying the factual medium because there's something about you that doesn't want to do the emotion? 00:31:57.430 --> 00:32:07.721

Because if you think about, again, what's natural, you're an emotional man, an emotional person, you run on emotion emotionally feels important, but it doesn't mean that you don't have any facts. 00:32:08.500 --> 00:32:19.725 But sometimes you have factual mediums who never do emotion, so they have emotion, but there's a reason for some reason that it's not happening in the mediumship, and that's not because of the spirit world. 00:32:19.725 --> 00:32:20.645 That's because of the medium. 00:32:22.475 --> 00:32:22.695 So. 00:32:23.248 --> 00:32:25.378 We, sorry. 00:32:25.378 --> 00:32:39.568 I was gonna say, even as you're saying that we can fall into these comfort zones in our medium ship and we get a certain way of working, and it can be very destabilising when the medium ship starts to change and evolve because, um, you know, I, I configure myself so many times. 00:32:39.568 --> 00:32:41.578 I say, oh yes, I'm cloud nine. 00:32:41.578 --> 00:32:42.388 It's going well. 00:32:42.388 --> 00:32:43.888 I know this is what I'm meant to be doing. 00:32:44.068 --> 00:32:47.519 Then all of a sudden, uh, readings, no, no, no, no, no. 00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:49.738 And I think, what the hell is going on? 00:32:49.738 --> 00:32:50.968 What is, what is going on there? 00:32:51.328 --> 00:32:56.578 And, uh, just recently I, I'm having that all over again with my clear audience opening up. 00:32:56.908 --> 00:32:59.394 But, you know, we could be very hard on ourself in mediumship. 00:32:59.728 --> 00:33:08.428 I think back to myself, when I used to be doing sales calls, if I'd do one bad sales call, I wouldn't suddenly get up and quit the job because I'd say to myself, I'm an awful sales person. 00:33:08.428 --> 00:33:12.718 That's just 'cause perhaps, you know, it was the wrong day, bit tired, whatever it might be. 00:33:12.718 --> 00:33:15.394 But we beat ourselves up, don't we, in this journey, a mediumship. 00:33:16.201 --> 00:33:16.860 Absolutely. 00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:23.940 But again, for me, there's always the, the, the, the student's journey is also partly the influence of the teaching. 00:33:25.050 --> 00:33:30.990 Like when I, when I was in, I mean, I still say I'm a student today because it feels like you're never ending journey. 00:33:31.290 --> 00:33:41.790 But when I was properly a student, we get told things like, um, you know, you're only as good as your last demonstration and you're only as good as your last private sitting. 00:33:42.360 --> 00:33:50.670 And then you start to get the stress of, well, my last demonstration was rubbish and I struggled and I get everything wrong and it was terrible. 00:33:50.670 --> 00:33:53.461 That means my next demonstration, oh my God, what am I gonna do? 00:33:53.820 --> 00:34:06.840 So what happens is they then start to get this psychological warfare that because the teaching says, you are only as good as your last contact, my last contact was tripe, which means the next one's gonna be terrible as well. 00:34:06.930 --> 00:34:09.360 We, we start to fall into this psychological warfare. 00:34:09.601 --> 00:34:15.811 But it's actually very unfair because one contact does not define all of your ability. 00:34:16.681 --> 00:34:17.490 No, it doesn't. 00:34:17.865 --> 00:34:21.375 And one sitting can't define the whole of your experience of sitting. 00:34:21.375 --> 00:34:31.965 So what it does, it actually does the opposite, where it starts to make people doubt and question rather than actually go, as you say, yeah, this one didn't work. 00:34:32.025 --> 00:34:36.735 Okay, but all the other ones were, okay, so why, why is this one going to destroy me? 00:34:36.735 --> 00:34:40.514 Because there's no reason, you know, we're, we're human and because we're human. 00:34:40.514 --> 00:34:47.775 We've got our belief, we've got how we turn up, how we think, we've got to deal with responses within ourself, triggers within ourself. 00:34:47.954 --> 00:34:55.514 So much stuff going on that we can't, we can't be critical towards ourself because as I said, how many mediums do you know? 00:34:56.054 --> 00:34:58.634 So I've got be said, Jason, I really hope I'm terrible today. 00:34:59.976 --> 00:35:00.846 Not many. 00:35:00.846 --> 00:35:03.126 We all, we all want to do our best, don't we? 00:35:03.126 --> 00:35:05.586 The majority of us, we all want to do a good job. 00:35:05.775 --> 00:35:09.045 yeah, and I think everybody who tries is trying to do their best. 00:35:09.404 --> 00:35:15.434 Now, whether my perception of what they do is what I would regard as good or bad is not important. 00:35:15.824 --> 00:35:20.474 I've never seen anybody stand on a platform who's never tried to do their best. 00:35:20.474 --> 00:35:29.804 And I take my hat off to every single person who's ever ventured to do it, because we know what it feels like to be there and to put yourself on the line. 00:35:30.014 --> 00:35:38.415 For me, even if somebody says they're terrible, I, I have this respect that they stood there to go and do something, that they're passionate and something they love. 00:35:38.775 --> 00:35:44.085 And also that they were brave enough to say, okay, I'm going to share with you what I can do. 00:35:44.355 --> 00:35:48.585 And for me, whether they're good, bad, average, it's not for me to decide. 00:35:48.674 --> 00:35:56.174 Um, if they ask me from a teacher perspective, I can maybe say, well, you know, these areas are maybe gonna strengthen what you're trying to create. 00:35:56.174 --> 00:35:58.456 The red line or mediumship is about A, B, C. 00:35:58.755 --> 00:36:08.625 But, you know, um, to watch people stand in their power and do the thing that their passion and thing that they love, I mean, what more can you ask for somebody? 00:36:08.864 --> 00:36:10.815 So I don't think anybody sets themself up to fail. 00:36:11.944 --> 00:36:19.025 I think even when I've, when I look back now to when there, there is a, a, a bad reading, uh, or reading I would deem to be

bad. 00:36:19.025 --> 00:36:21.784 But, you know, that's a, a whole other story. 00:36:21.784 --> 00:36:23.944 'cause I've had to reads where I thought, oh, that was awful. 00:36:23.974 --> 00:36:26.795 And then two months later, then in comes another booking. 00:36:27.065 --> 00:36:32.134 Um, so, you know, our perception of ourselves can be very, um, much an illusion at times. 00:36:32.315 --> 00:36:37.654 But I always know when there's, when I've done, I always know what the reason is for a bad reading generally. 00:36:37.864 --> 00:36:47.194 And it's, it, it's always because I've either interpreted or not, or not just said what's come to me, but I'd like to think that's hopefully, um, behind me now. 00:36:47.464 --> 00:36:58.384 But it's, it's with mediumship, I think it's, we, there's nothing like sitting in front of someone and saying, in those early days that I've got, you know, your loved one here, the amount of trust that takes. 00:36:58.384 --> 00:37:02.164 But it feels to me as a teacher, a mediumship what you're really trying to do. 00:37:02.369 --> 00:37:10.654 The, the biggest part of it is learn and give people experiments to, uh, trust themselves and trust spirit in order to just say what they're feeling. 00:37:10.654 --> 00:37:14.855 But energy fellows thoughts and when you're gonna go in it is even not helpful. 00:37:14.855 --> 00:37:16.235 The example you just gave. 00:37:16.235 --> 00:37:27.184 Because even if you, uh, get into that mindset and say, oh, you know, uh, I, I'll start the reading and say, I'm gonna try my best today, but I'm not having a great day Energy fellows thoughts. 00:37:27.214 --> 00:37:46.894 And you've just got to, I think in mediumship, even if you're not internally feeling it, just go into it with confidence, even if that is a slight act because it gets the energy up immediately when someone comes up and I see someone standing front to me and they're saying, or I'm not sure if it's gonna go well today 'cause it's been a while. 00:37:47.045 --> 00:37:53.795 The energy suddenly drops and you are almost having to sort of pedal up a hill to get the energy back up, aren't you? 00:37:54.090 --> 00:37:54.302 Yep. 00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:54.601 Yep. 00:37:54.721 --> 00:38:00.181 But I think again, …you say it's, there's a lot of the psychology of it, like the, you know, what you think you'll become. 00:38:00.601 --> 00:38:05.670 It's the, it's the old cliches that I used to really, really get frustrated with when I was younger, you know? 00:38:06.031 --> 00:38:07.771 You know what you think you become are. 00:38:07.771 --> 00:38:08.221 Yeah, yeah. 00:38:08.251 --> 00:38:11.612 But actually, if you think you can, you well, if you think you can't, you're right. 00:38:11.761 --> 00:38:12.031 You know? 00:38:12.031 --> 00:38:16.900 So it becomes all this sort of very simple, mindsets. 00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:20.170 And I always say mediumship is live tv. 00:38:21.371 --> 00:38:23.920 You get, you know, you're, you're

on, you've get one shot at it. 00:38:23.925 --> 00:38:25.210 It is gonna be where it's gonna be. 00:38:25.601 --> 00:38:27.760 It's gonna be amazing, it's gonna be horrible. 00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:28.931 It's gonna be in the middle. 00:38:28.931 --> 00:38:31.540 You're gonna get through it, you're gonna struggle, it's gonna be fantastic. 00:38:31.540 --> 00:38:32.831 It's gonna be what it's gonna be. 00:38:33.371 --> 00:38:35.951 It's going to, you can't change what it is, it's over. 00:38:36.340 --> 00:38:40.480 And then you move on to the next one and you just learn from experience, you know? 00:38:40.540 --> 00:38:49.510 So I think it's, um, it's really important to, to, to love what you do and to enjoy the journey. 00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:58.750 And rather than seeing it as success or failure, it's more about the humbling experience of this was never about me anyway. 00:38:59.621 --> 00:39:02.590 It was about me trying to help you have an experience. 00:39:02.590 --> 00:39:12.101 And I might go as the medium, I might say, oh, that was terrible and that wasn't good enough and I should have had more evidence and I should have had more A, B, C. 00:39:12.730 --> 00:39:15.581 But it's not about what I want, it's about your experience. 00:39:15.581 --> 00:39:18.161 So you might walk away and think, that was amazing. 00:39:19.181 --> 00:39:20.920 And I could be sitting to thinking it was terrible. 00:39:21.550 --> 00:39:30.520 Well, I don't know how good or bad I am, as you said earlier, when I'm in the presence of awareness because I'm slipping from conscious to an un, a more unconscious focus. 00:39:30.520 --> 00:39:35.831 So we don't know how good or bad we are, so we can't judge yourself 'cause we're not in the presence to judge. 00:39:36.431 --> 00:39:39.371 And if you say it's good, who am I to say that you're wrong? 00:39:39.371 --> 00:39:51.490 And, and, you know, so it, it becomes this very, I think that is why it becomes such a humbling and why, um, for me, mediumship has taught me so much just about living and just about life. 00:39:51.851 --> 00:39:57.070 Purely because of the teaching philosophy and what it shows me about myself. 00:39:57.070 --> 00:39:59.650 It has taught me so much about who I am as a person. 00:40:00.856 --> 00:40:05.416 Feels to me very much like it's kind of infused every part of your life. 00:40:05.416 --> 00:40:11.507 And, and it does do that, even mediumship for me, it's changed, uh, it's made me softer as a person. 00:40:11.507 --> 00:40:16.726 I feel that, you I just walk around a lot of the time in awe and it's, it is very healing. 00:40:16.726 --> 00:40:30.726 And that's why I feel that if you're gonna go on this journey, it's a journey that will change every, your life won't look the same in any way, shape, or form because, it's healed me in a lot of ways, but it's also very exposing as well because it throws up a lot within you. 00:40:30.936 --> 00:40:42.306 And even, recently I've started to find that a lot of my readings are just getting more and more intense in the fact that when you do a reading every single time, that is touching part of your backstory, isn't it? 00:40:42.487 --> 00:40:44.766 Through emotions, through a lot. 00:40:44.766 --> 00:40:48.927 My readings always because, and you never know what's going on in someone else's, mediumship. 00:40:48.987 --> 00:40:55.076 But mine draw draws on such strong clairvoyance and emotions based on past experiences. 00:40:55.076 --> 00:40:59.007 And sometimes you'll, I'll do readings where I, it'll be with me for days afterwards. 00:40:59.007 --> 00:41:02.757 'cause I thought, oh God, it's brought up that, that thing of my past now. 00:41:02.846 --> 00:41:04.376 And it's like, I thought that was done. 00:41:04.376 --> 00:41:07.166 I thought I'd sort of moved on from that, but now it's back again. 00:41:07.346 --> 00:41:11.487 And then I start asking myself, you know, these questions, we'll never know till we get to the other side. 00:41:11.726 --> 00:41:14.547 You know, why did the spirit well bring that, that person through to me? 00:41:14.547 --> 00:41:16.646 Why was I found in the director of the mediums? 00:41:16.646 --> 00:41:17.396 Did they do that? 00:41:17.396 --> 00:41:25.797 Because yes, I can communicate that, but also maybe that's something I need to look at myself as another way of, uh, you know, healing in order to, to move on. 00:41:25.976 --> 00:41:31.656 And as I often sit here, as you probably do, wondering to myself, how does it all work in the other world? 00:41:31.656 --> 00:41:33.306 You know, when they find a medium? 00:41:33.306 --> 00:41:49.086 Because, think when you start to open your eyes to it and you start to really step into this world, I've started to look back at my life now with so much more synchronicity thinking, …Hmm, when I look back at some of these things, I think to myself, this doesn't seem like this was free will at all. 00:41:49.086 --> 00:41:50.646 Actually, to some degree. 00:41:52.081 --> 00:42:00.670 I remember when I first went to, to a proper course, I was at home and I had been speaking to a, uh, a teacher who was in a, in a, one of the churches. 00:42:00.670 --> 00:42:03.581 And they said, oh, she come to this place and do this course. 00:42:03.581 --> 00:42:05.050 And I was like, oh, I dunno. 00:42:05.621 --> 00:42:09.641 And I went home and they said, well, you can phone and try and book, but there might not have any space. 00:42:09.670 --> 00:42:10.570 'cause normally it's full. 00:42:10.570 --> 00:42:12.641 This was only two months from when the course started. 00:42:13.331 --> 00:42:20.020 And I went back and at that time I went back to see my mum and I said to her, yeah, I don't know. 00:42:20.020 --> 00:42:22.630 I've been asked about maybe going to a course, but I don't know what to do. 00:42:22.630 --> 00:42:25.240 And she, I was like, okay, nothing more was said. 00:42:25.810 --> 00:42:33.851 And about 20 minutes later, I come down

the stairs holding my credit card and looked at my mum and she looked at me and she's like, what are you doing? 00:42:33.940 --> 00:42:38.560 I said, I think I've just booked a course, but I don't know, I don't even remember the conversation. 00:42:38.831 --> 00:42:41.320 I had to phone back and say, this is my name. 00:42:41.500 --> 00:42:42.310 Have I just phoned? 00:42:42.310 --> 00:42:43.780 You did a, yeah, yeah, you've booked a course. 00:42:43.780 --> 00:42:45.431 There was one spare room and blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:49.570 And I actually booked myself onto the course, but I have no recollec even to this day. 00:42:49.780 --> 00:42:58.480 I have no recollection of the phone call, I have no recollection of, of the course, um, of asking about it, giving my card number, nothing. 00:42:58.750 --> 00:43:05.831 So something in that moment, as you say, I could say, oh, well make a nice little spiritual story from it. 00:43:06.010 --> 00:43:15.701 But in that moment, I actually was completely oblivious to the fact that I was supposed to go to this course and I was meant to be there whether I wanted it or not. 00:43:16.181 --> 00:43:20.770 This was being instigated in some level because I've got no recollection of ever even lift. 00:43:20.775 --> 00:43:28.510 I, I remember lifting the phone up, I remember putting the phone down and holding my credit card, and that's the only memory I have of the experience. 00:43:28.570 --> 00:43:30.130 And I'm like, well, what happened in the middle? 00:43:30.701 --> 00:43:31.990 It's the strangest thing. 00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:39.070 But that obviously that experience doing this course was the catalyst that made everything start to run and move. 00:43:39.929 --> 00:43:44.578 If that was me, the first thing I'd be doing is ringing the credit card company to make sure I hadn't booked anything else. 00:43:45.748 --> 00:43:46.139 Singly. 00:43:46.438 --> 00:43:52.558 It sounds to me like you was in some kinds of a trance state there, that that sort of led you to your first course. 00:43:52.558 --> 00:44:00.958 But even my, the first time I went on a course, I booked it so willy-nilly, which for me isn't out of character to do things like that. 00:44:00.958 --> 00:44:04.438 But I do remember on the days leading up to it thinking, what the hell have I done? 00:44:04.438 --> 00:44:05.699 Why did I even book this? 00:44:05.969 --> 00:44:11.699 But it was interesting because when I went on that very first course, I went with no real care. 00:44:11.938 --> 00:44:18.958 Um, you know, not, not really, um, afraid to sort of just stand up in front of people and do medium shit because I thought, well, I'll give it a go. 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:24.808 And it so much flowed on that very first occasion that the second time I went on a course I cared. 00:44:25.018 --> 00:44:29.737 And because I cared and I wanted to do it again, of course it didn't, um, manifest Yeah. 00:44:30.058 --> 00:44:31.139 in the same way. 00:44:31.469 --> 00:44:34.228 Why are you working on these days then, in your mediumship? 00:44:34.228 --> 00:44:41.098 Because as you said, you're on this journey of, um, you know, forever, uh, astute at the mediumship and I feel very much feel like that. 00:44:41.098 --> 00:44:44.429 I also feel that the more I know, the more I don't know. 00:44:44.429 --> 00:44:49.078 And, um, you know, I think that's a good way to be is forever question and forever curious. 00:44:49.078 --> 00:44:52.798 But what, what do you find that the spirit welder working with you on? 00:44:52.798 --> 00:44:55.264 Or what are you trying to develop these days? 00:44:55.938 --> 00:45:09.438 I think what's mainly happening for me over the last years is it becomes more and more simplified, which makes sense because as you said at the beginning, it is simple, but we just make it complicated. 00:45:09.827 --> 00:45:17.538 So everything's becoming more and more simplified where it becomes more and more natural because it's more and more simple. 00:45:18.077 --> 00:45:34.577 But it also made me recognise one day, um, I had been teaching courses and seminars for quite a, quite a long time, and I started to notice that I had never, I hadn't actually taught a clear Voyant exercise for more than 3, 4, 5 years. 00:45:35.897 --> 00:45:40.817 And I thought, Hmm, that's a bit, that's a bit weird really when you think about it. 00:45:41.268 --> 00:45:52.637 And I thought, well, I haven't taught clairvoyance, I haven't taught colour, I haven't used mind maps, I haven't used cards, I haven't used any tools. 00:45:54.197 --> 00:45:57.018 And I thought, what am I actually teaching? 00:45:57.587 --> 00:46:04.607 You know, because I, when you, when you take away the clairvoyance and the pictures and the colours, you know, the, you're only left with with awareness, really. 00:46:05.447 --> 00:46:07.217 And I thought, what have I been teaching all these years? 00:46:07.217 --> 00:46:18.047 Because I, I haven't, and even the students that I've had now who come, who have been with me regular, when they, when they're on a course and the teacher says, we're gonna do a Clair Vo exercise, they go, I dunno how to do it. 00:46:18.347 --> 00:46:19.188 And they're like, what? 00:46:19.487 --> 00:46:28.188 'cause they can, they can do their mediumship, but they, they've, never had this focus on a clear VO experience because my philosophy says, you don't need to. 00:46:29.208 --> 00:46:45.208 So it kind of contradicts the teaching because I'm, if I've taught somebody from zero and they're now demonstrating that they've never been taught how to consciously get a picture, do this with it, then it proves that you don't need to have it. 00:46:47.233 --> 00:47:02.203 Do you know what I've, I, when you say that from the place I am in my own journey now, I totally understand that because even doing a clairvoyant exercise and saying, right, what I want you to do in this exercise now is I want you to get a

picture. 00:47:02.534 --> 00:47:03.313 Again. 00:47:03.583 --> 00:47:14.353 The student medium is trying, they're reaching and, reaching is one of the things that I think is so hard to get out the habit of doing. 00:47:14.503 --> 00:47:18.673 And you see it in mediums all, all the time I see, they say, okay, I've got this. 00:47:18.673 --> 00:47:19.634 This has come to me. 00:47:19.634 --> 00:47:22.453 Yes, okay, but I'm, now, I want to understand what that is. 00:47:22.453 --> 00:47:23.054 What does that mean? 00:47:23.054 --> 00:47:26.083 And you think the moment you are doing that, you're out the energy. 00:47:26.273 --> 00:47:34.014 And it, I can imagine the same thing must happen when you know you're trying to get a student to focus on one area. 00:47:34.014 --> 00:47:52.153 I can see the helpfulness in it, but also I tend to find myself, because I've done a lot of courses over the years, I tend to find whenever there's, an exercise that we are focusing on a smeller or we're focusing on a vision, it tends to feel a bit sticky to me anyway. 00:47:52.333 --> 00:47:58.123 And it, I kind of understand why I'm doing it, but it it, it takes the naturalness outta what you're doing, doesn't it? 00:47:58.711 --> 00:47:58.862 Yeah. 00:47:58.862 --> 00:48:06.721 I mean obviously as I said, it's not that it's bad to do them, and of course they are beneficial because you get an understanding of how your mind operates. 00:48:07.021 --> 00:48:11.132 You get an understanding of possibilities of what you could do if you had this experience. 00:48:11.132 --> 00:48:13.561 So that's, that's the reason maybe we have them. 00:48:14.251 --> 00:48:24.781 But when you actually take, let's say we take Jason and we say, Jason, do this exercise and, and you're gonna work with all these, whether it's words or colours or pictures, and you work and work and work. 00:48:24.781 --> 00:48:29.461 And you finally start to, okay, then we go, okay, Jason, thanks for being here. 00:48:29.461 --> 00:48:30.601 Lovely time having you with us. 00:48:30.601 --> 00:48:31.531 You've done a wonderful job. 00:48:31.862 --> 00:48:33.121 Now what are you doing tomorrow? 00:48:33.211 --> 00:48:35.882 Oh, well, tomorrow I've got sittings and I'm doing a demonstration. 00:48:35.911 --> 00:48:36.302 Okay. 00:48:36.661 --> 00:48:38.221 Tomorrow you will not do anything. 00:48:38.221 --> 00:48:38.942 You've just been taught. 00:48:40.324 --> 00:48:40.683 Yes. 00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:44.719 You're just gonna go and do exactly what your default is, which is your naturalness. 00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:56.389 So I can spend five years teaching you how to work with a picture in your head, but ultimately, when you go and do what you do within the nature of who you are you are not gonna do what John taught you because that's not within your nature. 00:48:57.319 --> 00:48:59.302 So it the problem with a course, isn't it? 00:48:59.302 --> 00:49:03.862 If you are just spending all week doing those exercises, how does that relate them back to the normal world? 00:49:03.927 --> 00:49:04.137 Yeah. 00:49:04.288 --> 00:49:08.007 Well, as I said, you're opening the mind to possibilities, which is why maybe we use them. 00:49:08.577 --> 00:49:40.467 But as I've said, I've done course week on, week on week for the last years, and I've never taught cavon exercise because when, when people are within the true, for me, what I believe and what I've witnessed within students' experiences when they're truly within the presence and the power of awareness, whether it's an intuitive exercise or a mediumistic exercise, when they're truly in the presence of what they're meant to do, clear voyance is happening to them, which means they actually know what to do with their experiences because they're really within the presence of what there is. 00:49:40.467 --> 00:49:40.827 They're not. 00:49:41.038 --> 00:49:47.998 They're not, as you say, searching and trying to find, oh, now I need to find something factual, so I'm gonna try and find a picture because, and I wonder how they died. 00:49:48.357 --> 00:49:51.597 And I'm thinking, well, do you think the spirit want to talk about how they died? 00:49:51.597 --> 00:49:53.487 Or do you think they want to talk about how they lived? 00:49:54.967 --> 00:50:01.972 So if on your courses you are not doing these types of things, what are you doing to help facilitate naturalness in all its forms then? 00:50:02.981 --> 00:50:16.431 Generally I will do a kind of variation of, I, I, I've got a, I suppose a lot of, um, discovery exercises, and I call it discovery because there isn't an ultimate answer of what you need to do. 00:50:16.701 --> 00:50:27.592 So let's say for example, let's say, okay, Jason, now if you sit with this person over here, um, and as you sit with them, what happens to you just by being in the presence? 00:50:29.710 --> 00:50:33.639 So what happens is that I'm not, I'm not telling you go and find this and get that. 00:50:33.819 --> 00:50:38.315 I'm just asking you to tell me your experience of what it's to be you within that experience. 00:50:38.500 --> 00:50:42.519 So you start to say, well, actually I feel a bit uncomfortable sitting here. 00:50:42.579 --> 00:50:44.860 And I go, okay, so what's the reason you're uncomfortable? 00:50:45.279 --> 00:50:45.789 I dunno. 00:50:45.789 --> 00:50:47.469 It feels, I feel a bit stressed. 00:50:47.500 --> 00:50:49.539 Okay, are you stressed or is that person stressed? 00:50:49.989 --> 00:50:57.400 So you start to then recognise there's this, this inner perception and awareness rather than now go and find that. 00:50:57.400 --> 00:50:58.809 And I want you to go and find out what you did. 00:50:59.049 --> 00:51:03.309 Because if I'm the one who's, I have a, again, I see this might my, a crazy head. 00:51:04.420 --> 00:51:11.199 I believe that your soul has, has the knowledge and it knows what you're not listening to. 00:51:11.380 --> 00:51:13.989 So your souls telling Jason,

don't do that to you Jason. 00:51:14.019 --> 00:51:16.089 Ah, Jason, why are you doing, oh, not again Jason. 00:51:16.179 --> 00:51:21.009 And you keep doing it anyway because you know, you're in the, that you're in the humanness of what you are. 00:51:21.339 --> 00:51:39.549 So if you sit with somebody who can be sensitive to Jason, but Jason's energy of Jason, not Jason, the person, then I might have this feeling that, okay, so what I feel your soul's trying to do is remind you that this is not working for you and it's not for me to decide whether you should or shouldn't. 00:51:39.549 --> 00:51:40.690 'cause that's not predictive. 00:51:41.049 --> 00:51:47.589 But it's saying, well you're, you're, you know, Jason, you're trying to make all these changes, but you feel insecure about it and you're going, yeah, actually, yeah, yeah. 00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:50.529 But you are trying to squash everything in because Yeah. 00:51:50.739 --> 00:51:59.500 But what I feel is important for you is, so what happens is it becomes this, why would your soul give me information that's not relevant to you? 00:52:00.849 --> 00:52:02.085 Doesn't it wouldn't, would it? 00:52:02.085 --> 00:52:02.295 Yeah. 00:52:02.295 --> 00:52:03.315 It doesn't make any sense. 00:52:03.549 --> 00:52:11.380 So if I'm, if I'm the one then as the practising medium, who's now deciding what to find, am I paying attention to what your soul wants? 00:52:11.380 --> 00:52:13.659 Or am I doing the exercise that you demand of me? 00:52:13.900 --> 00:52:18.489 This world is telling me what medium ship is, but this world isn't in control of my medium ship. 00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:24.269 This like the way that it's, sorry I just interrupted you again. 00:52:24.269 --> 00:52:25.889 You're pushing all my excited buttons. 00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:38.940 It feels to me that your weeks are very, are very much all about awareness, but it feels to me that just focusing on that is naturally bringing in the psychic and is naturally bringing in everything that's needed. 00:52:39.289 --> 00:52:41.150 So it makes a lot of sense to me. 00:52:41.179 --> 00:52:58.110 It does make a lot of sense and I can understand why, but it, to be honest with you, John, I haven't come across many people that really, take that approach to the way of teaching mediumship, but it, it screens out to me that it's, it's what you did at the very beginning with the meditation. 00:52:58.110 --> 00:53:01.349 You've always been someone to challenge and find your own way. 00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:06.119 And I think to have embraced that individuality from such an early stages is the battle. 00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:11.099 I think so many mediums really do face is to not be the cookie cutter version of the next person. 00:53:11.099 --> 00:53:17.190 Or like you said, have the Chinese whispers passed down through the generations with the purple washing machine somewhere in the middle. 00:53:17.579 --> 00:53:19.083 So I get yeah. 00:53:19.114 --> 00:53:21.183 I mean it's, I mean, it's all in good faith. 00:53:21.183 --> 00:53:22.233 It's all in good practise. 00:53:22.233 --> 00:53:23.493 Everybody's trying to do their best. 00:53:23.493 --> 00:53:27.213 And again, I've learned so much from people that have been teachers. 00:53:27.213 --> 00:53:31.293 So again, this is why I say it's, it's challenging the philosophy and the teaching. 00:53:31.293 --> 00:53:33.063 It's not actually individual people. 00:53:33.063 --> 00:53:36.034 We're talking about what does the teaching philosophy bring us? 00:53:36.453 --> 00:53:48.438 And also coming from a a, a sort of a sceptical mindset, which is what I have when I, when I was practising and developing, it wasn't about me trying to show you I could do it. 00:53:48.438 --> 00:53:50.344 It was me trying to prove to myself I could do it. 00:53:51.483 --> 00:53:53.193 You know, obviously that was my own scepticism. 00:53:53.614 --> 00:54:00.634 And having a belief in something beyond my own self, it's like, well, do I believe it does more or am I just believing? 00:54:00.634 --> 00:54:06.973 Because, I couldn't even say the word God growing up because it wasn't a word that was ever, it was more frowned upon. 00:54:07.393 --> 00:54:12.403 And then when I had, when I used the word God, I could feel myself going, oh, that's a bit cringey. 00:54:12.884 --> 00:54:17.713 And I started to just say, well, if you spell it backwards, it's dog. 00:54:17.743 --> 00:54:19.063 So is it hard to say dog? 00:54:19.753 --> 00:54:21.103 Or why should a bar see God? 00:54:21.193 --> 00:54:21.433 You know? 00:54:21.433 --> 00:54:39.614 So I started to sort of challenge myself and think, well, your scepticism is now becoming destructive because like you say, if we practise and we think, well, that wasn't good enough and I haven't done this and I haven't done that, and I've got this, are we destroying ourself or are we also destroying the faith? 00:54:39.614 --> 00:54:53.594 The spirit world was just being with us, you know, because that person in the spirit world could be desperate, completely desperate to just let you know that they're okay and they've done their best and you've done their best. 00:54:53.594 --> 00:54:57.223 And the person who received it thinks, yeah, yeah, this was really nice. 00:54:57.223 --> 00:54:59.143 And I really feel it, and I feel valued. 00:54:59.534 --> 00:55:01.243 The medium goes away and says, what? 00:55:01.243 --> 00:55:01.903 Lot rubbish. 00:55:02.023 --> 00:55:02.534 I never did it. 00:55:02.534 --> 00:55:02.773 Right. 00:55:03.043 --> 00:55:04.574 How does that make the spirit world feel? 00:55:05.943 --> 00:55:07.114 Probably not very good. 00:55:07.114 --> 00:55:10.143 I reckon they must slam their head against concrete at times. 00:55:10.423 --> 00:55:16.304 With some of the challenges, it just boggles me how even complicated it is for them to come through and talk to us. 00:55:16.483 --> 00:55:26.728 I beg to even think how

complicated it is to use a person's consciousness of their past memories to get a message through, but it begs the question, why do they make such an effort? 00:55:26.938 --> 00:55:31.469 Why do they go through such legs to actually want to come and down here and talk to us? 00:55:31.469 --> 00:55:33.808 And I think it's because they, they, they want to help. 00:55:33.808 --> 00:55:41.969 They want to get these messages across, but it's, I think we've sometimes got the easy part of the, the, the stick really when it comes to the communication. 00:55:42.328 --> 00:55:48.228 So do you know what we, I, I can't even believe a four hour has gone by, John, I feel like I've only been talking to you 10 minutes. 00:55:48.228 --> 00:55:49.159 It's gone that quickly. 00:55:49.578 --> 00:55:57.018 So if you do wanna find out more about, uh, John, you can go to the show notes, but in Soul Sync tradition, leave us on a final thought today. 00:55:58.831 --> 00:56:21.201 I suppose one of my favourite quotes that I've used many times when it comes to development is, it's, it's important for us as individuals to to be able to, to be able to be honest to ourself and not get carried away with the ego demand expectations, to really give ourselves permission to say, well, am I doing this because it suits everybody else? 00:56:21.201 --> 00:56:23.150 Or am I doing it because it's right for me? 00:56:23.960 --> 00:56:28.130 And there's a quote, which is when a flower fails to bloom. 00:56:31.375 --> 00:56:34.764 You don't change the flour, you change the environment in which it grows. 00:56:36.384 --> 00:56:51.954 And I think it's so prominent for medium ship because if somebody's medium ship is failing to bloom and they blame themself, rather than it could be that they're not having the sun, they're not having the right soil, and they're not having the right water and order for them to become that which they are naturally meant to be. 00:56:52.525 --> 00:56:58.224 So I think that that self-awareness goes beyond just self-awareness of being sensitive. 00:56:58.704 --> 00:57:02.094 The self-awareness of this is important for me. 00:57:02.094 --> 00:57:04.045 This is, this is, this is my life. 00:57:05.005 --> 00:57:06.144 Mediumship is my life. 00:57:06.144 --> 00:57:07.494 It's not something you do. 00:57:07.795 --> 00:57:09.054 It's part of what we are. 00:57:09.534 --> 00:57:15.414 And am I denying myself the truest version of myself because I'm too busy trying to be that which everybody tells me to be? 00:57:15.744 --> 00:57:19.884 Or am I going to be the flower that moves and gets planted somewhere else? 00:57:19.884 --> 00:57:30.199 That it has the nourishment in the sun and the water that it needs to become that which it was meant to be, which is the individual, but a pure essence of beauty of God. 00:57:32.078 --> 00:57:33.338 Absolutely beautiful. 00:57:33.338 --> 00:57:35.683 John Johnson, thank you for coming onto the Souling. 00:57:35.753 --> 00:57:37.123 It's been a delight. 00:57:38.478 --> 00:57:39.438 Thank you so much for having me. 00:57:39.438 --> 00:57:41.628 I really appreciate it and it's been lovely talking to you. 00:57:41.628 --> 00:57:43.128 So thanks so much for your time.