บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Rachel Aitken on PMDD, and Building a Second Career From Scratch on Maternity Leave

my mates, loved sport, just just kind of milled around. 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:18.639 I grew up in Edinburgh, hence the accent. 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:23.360 Um, and it kind of just like fell in, oh, you'd go to uni next. 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:24.960 That was the sort of school I went to. 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:28.719 I remember saying to my head teacher, Brycey, I don't want to go to uni. 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:30.800 And she was like, just don't be silly. 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:32.000 Like, like that's what we do. 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:34.319 I realize that it's for their leading tables, of course. 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:39.120 I went to uni and I just was like, I started off doing law and was like, this is hectic. 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:43.039 This is hard work, this is not for me, this is so rigid, I don't know what I'm doing. 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:45.680 And switched halfway through degree. 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:46.960 And again, I kind of got through it. 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:51.520 I got the two one fine, but it's nothing was like lighting my soul on fire. 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:56.560 If anything, I felt like kind of like I loved it, I met loads of people, but I'm just partying, whatever. 00:02:56.800 --> 00:03:00.960 Then we we moved to London and I got a job in PR. 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:02.960 And I kind of once again just fell into it. 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:04.479 All my friends were moving to London. 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.919 I always knew I've I've always got that wonder lust in me. 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:17.439 So actually, we were chatting to your lovely producer and colleagues, and just there, and I was saying, you know, like if someone was to say to me tomorrow, you've got an opportunity to move to Australia, like I would do it, I wouldn't hesitate. 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:19.120 I've just got the wonder lust in my bones. 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:32.400 I think you have it or you don't, truthfully, because a lot of my friends are like, you were mad to I have two kids now, you were mad to be not living back in Edinburgh where your families, both Rory and I, my husband and I's families are in Edinburgh, but we're not there, we're in Southport. 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:37.680 And yeah, I just kind of have been kind of going along happy, enjoying it. 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:39.120 You know, I loved working in PR. 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:42.080 I worked for the world's largest PR firm in London. 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:52.560 I transferred up to Manchester, where we're here today, and I was saying to the guys, like, it's so nice to be back, and in my old stomping ground, I just lived in Castlefield, and it was just such an amazing time. 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:59.039 Um, and I had cool clients, and you know, I would go with my clients to Media City all the time. 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:04.159 I'd go down to London, I'd be like there for Sky News, Sky Sports. 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:13.919 And to be honest with you, Hannah, it was just

one of those things where I think it was always niggling in the back of my head, but I didn't actually think someone like me could be in front of the camera. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:23.839 I thought I'd always be the kind of um one cheering everyone else on because I am that person, like you know, I will always back whoever's in my life to the hilt, like whatever you need. 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:30.160 You know, my friend has just set up a little Instagram post, something really a bit like Murphy Sketches, if you know who Murphy Sketches are, yeah. 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:36.560 And uh I've reposted everything she's not asked me to do, and I will absolutely be that person, but I've never championed myself. 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:42.879 And um, you know, we were just you just mentioned to me um off air about lockdown. 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:44.079 Well, it was lockdown for me. 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:50.079 I was watching interviews on, you know, we were watching TV a lot, we were watching Boris a lot, I was watching BBC Breakfast a lot. 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:58.959 Um, and you know, I was thinking to myself, I don't know if I'd necessarily ask those questions, or oh, they could have maybe gone like deeper there. 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:05.759 On the flip side, I was also really absorbing, like, oh, that was a really cool interview, that was such a cool person, just normal people they were interviewing. 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:09.839 And I found I love that kind of human interaction, human storytelling. 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:14.319 And it was just starting to build and build, like, ooh, oh, I'd love to do something like that. 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:18.560 I kept saying to like my friends and family, like, I would love to do something like that. 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:27.199 Um, and for some reason or other, as soon as I fell pregnant with my daughter, it was instantaneous. 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:33.040 I was like, I've got to make a change because I really whatever you believe, I believe you have one shot here. 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:40.160 And we've got to, even if you fall face first, I just think you've got to go for it because what's the alternative? 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:42.959 You don't, and you don't know what what the outcome is. 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:58.000 So yeah, I continued, I like um moved from PR to marketing, I should have probably said, um, before I had my daughter, just generally because the pace of life in PR was really, really intense, and I knew that family exactly. 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:02.079 I I knew that it probably wasn't going to be the right the right fit. 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:10.720 Um and it I had like moving in-house, it did give me that breathing space, I think, to realise A, what career I really wanted, and B to start a family. 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:18.319 Um, so yeah, moved into marketing, had an amazing boss who really championed like my like dreams outside of the business. 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.360 She was absolutely amazing, like honestly, like very much one of us. 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:24.720 You know, she did the interviews with her three dog dogs on her. 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:27.439 She was like, I'm so sorry, I'm stinking of Red Bulls have been out last night. 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:29.279 And I just thought, I absolutely love you. 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:31.439 But she was like head like off of her game. 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:35.439 Like, I still I still in touch with her, she's absolutely amazing, and really championed me. 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.319 And honestly, within I think the first month of pregnancy, I was on BBC Radio. 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:41.920 It was so bizarre. 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:42.959 That's really cool. 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:43.600 Yeah. 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:54.160 And just jumping back to sort of you were watching the interviews during lockdown, you had all these sort of mm opinions and you know, almost ideas, creative ideas going wrong in your head. 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:59.040 What was the moment that you thought fuck it? 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.519 Like you pressed the fuck it button and you were like, I'm gonna do it. 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:13.519 Because ultimately, when you are in a full-time role, I know you're off on Matt Leave, but to to basically decide you're gonna start a new career whilst also having one, it's it's a bold decision. 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:25.519 Yeah, um, I actually was still working because I was I was only just early stages of pregnancy, but um my job is based in London, but I was living in Manchester at the time, so I did have like the days I wasn't um needed in London. 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:27.519 I did have like time at home. 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:30.399 So um I just started scouting about really. 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:40.639 I looked on LinkedIn and really randomly, this girl who um called Laura Crompton, and she is how we got to the pivot. 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.560 Um, I took her job when I moved up to Manchester. 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:49.839 We had a day of handover, so we didn't know each other, but we connected on socials, Instagram and and LinkedIn. 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:57.279 And I saw that she had a Friday show on BBC Radio Manchester, but she had the exact same career history as me. 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:07.040 So I was like, I don't know why, but one day when I pressed that fuck it button, I saw that, and I was like, I'm just gonna message her and ask her if I can have a coffee with her. 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:13.199 Um, I didn't want to disclose I was pregnant at the time, and I didn't want to look like I wasn't a fun gal, to be honest. 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:15.839 I know you don't have to drink, but at the time it kind of felt like you did have to. 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:16.800 Yeah, yeah, I can't. 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:18.399 Um, this was a little while ago now. 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.839 And uh anyway, she said, look, I'm a single mum, I

can't meet you for a drink, but I'll do a zoom with you. 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:23.360 And I was like, perfect. 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:30.240 Um and she was, you know, somebody who actually really champions you. 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:31.519 She didn't have to do it at all. 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:38.559 We had this hours conversation, and by the end of the hour, she got me drafting up this message to send her producer at BBC. 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.799 And then honestly, within the week, I was on the first show. 00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:45.279 So I finished my job, let's say five. 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:46.799 It never ends at five. 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.919 I think I finished at half six and I was on air by half seven, and I didn't tell anyone apart from my husband I was doing it. 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.240 So he was like tuning into the wireless listening. 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:55.120 So cool. 00:08:55.279 --> 00:09:00.399 And uh honestly, Hannah, I I was like, wow, I've I've found where I'm meant to be. 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:08.720 I I stepped a toe into the studio and I I realize I went straight into like the BBC and I was just like the buzz, the people, the energy. 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:15.200 A bit like when I I've walked into your offices today, like there's a cool energy, and you feel a little bit like should I be here? 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:19.519 But you're here and you're doing it, and like I'm gonna clip that up and send it round. 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:21.039 No, everyone's very cool here. 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:24.399 I honestly, everyone's very cool in Manchester, in my opinion. 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:31.600 But I I just was like from be going from that middle girl energy to always like just falling into it and making the most of it. 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:35.200 Like, I you know, I made like account director at a very young age. 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.279 I would say it was too young, to be honest with you. 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:40.879 But like, you know, I I will I will give you every time 110%. 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:52.240 Like, you know, there's even when I tracked you yesterday, I said I'm running on five percent, my kids don't sleep, but like I'll always give my best, I always put my best foot forward, and um oh the energy, I just loved it. 00:09:52.320 --> 00:10:11.120 And I was like, and then I was on with the BBC like you know throughout my pregnancy, and then I just as soon as I was on Mat Leave, I utilized that Mat Leave to the Hilt and uh ended up going from like contributing at the BBC to then landing my own Saturday show, which reaches I think now three quarters of a million people every Saturday. 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:17.679 I am taking a little bit of a break from it at the minute because I'm now on my second Mat Leave, but um you know that's amazing to me. 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:36.240 Like I don't really think about the numbers, but when they come in, I'm like, wow, I've just gone from you do have to take a moment to appreciate that because I think as with most people, career women, especially mothers, yeah, um, who are just running at 100 mile an hour, I think you're almost always thinking about what's next and never taking that moment to appreciate how far you've come. 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:37.360 So that's really important. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:38.879 Yeah, it was very cool. 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:44.720 Because I I was contributing at the BC, I didn't have my own show, and that basically the setup for that is like a bit like have I got news for you. 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:50.480 So you're like on panel discussions, you're talking about like what's happened in the week, like you know, heavy stuff alongside lighthearted stuff. 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:51.360 Do you get paid for that? 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:53.039 No, it's all voluntary, okay. 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:56.000 Um, but like that's the thing with the money. 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:59.519 I think my husband would love it, all of this to be paid. 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:01.440 Of course, majority of it is voluntary. 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:07.360 Yeah, I don't think about it because I mean, I'm unfortunately obviously do have a still a nine to five, and that's why I still basically have to have it. 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:12.799 Yeah being open about that until as I say I become the next Gabby Logan or Zoe Ball. 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:14.080 Um, you know, I can't. 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.039 By the way, I saw a picture of Gabby Logan on the back of a bus yesterday. 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:17.440 Oh yeah. 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:19.759 Slight aside, but she's insane. 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:22.559 She's my she looks unbelievable. 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:28.000 And the um the advert that she was actually on was like a um a pill for menopause. 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:32.000 And I was just thinking, if I look like her when I'm going for the menopause, like unreal. 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:32.799 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:34.960 In fact, my best friend calls me Gabster. 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:40.000 If I call her, she'll go Gabster! And you know, because she know they everyone knows how much I want to be Gabby Logan. 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:41.519 Yeah, she's absolutely wonderful. 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:42.320 Amazing. 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:51.360 Well, that is a really um condensed version of the the road to the pivot, but I want to jump back to the middle girl thing. 00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:51.759 Yeah. 00:11:51.919 --> 00:12:04.720 I am keen to get into that because I think it sets up a lot of the story and how we're gonna sort of go through what your life looks like today. 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:08.799 So explain to me what you mean by the middle girl. 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.840 I think a lot of people will be able to resonate with this. 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:20.799 The middle girl is somebody who's just kind of like you're not super excelling, but you're also not

so so basically say it's grades in terms of grades. 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.720 I know everyone's now one, two, three numbers, but I did A, B, C back in the day. 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:30.879 So you're not somebody who's gonna get the A star the whole time, you may get the odd one, but you're also not somebody who's gonna maybe get an F. 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:34.879 Like you're probably tracking, you get some A's, you get some B's, you get some C's. 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:38.960 You're maybe not 100% sure, you know, what you want to do. 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:45.120 Like one of my friends, I was in nursery with her, and she was just destined to be a doctor from nursery. 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:49.039 Like, there it wasn't from her appearance kind of nudging her in that direction. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:56.559 I mean, she heard about someone getting their head stapled, and she went around chasing another girl with a staple, like a stapler. 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:06.320 I don't know why someone was giving a child a stapler, but it was the 90s, and like to this day she's now a doctor living in the States, and I just think she just knew that was her path. 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.240 Yeah, I just didn't know what my path was. 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:10.320 I didn't have anyone sitting guiding me. 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:17.440 I went to a really lovely school, but like I think, like so many people, it was kind of like, oh, you're you're good at science, you should go down a medical school. 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:26.960 For sure, and I just think actually, like, if you're getting told off at school for being chatty, then maybe broadcasting or journalism or something such like that, or marketing. 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:31.759 A creative industry, a creative industry is for you, not just somebody who who's good at art, you know. 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:37.120 Um, and I'm sure, I'm absolutely sure we've come a long way since um since then. 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:43.440 But yeah, I just think wow, it was never discussed to me that you could go down the route of like radio, TV. 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:49.120 That always felt very glamorous, very out of reach, and very much for somebody not like me. 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:58.080 Um, you know, so you have you do live with a little bit of imposter syndrome when you're a middle girl, I think, more so than the average person. 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:04.879 Um, but yeah, it's that I think the middle girl analogy is somebody who's kind of like that middle of the road person. 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:22.000 You're you're kind of you're well liked, you're just maybe class client, you're just kind of muddling through and you will always kind of you always get get there eventually, but nobody's really massively paying you loads of attention like they would the super academic kid or the super sporty kid or the one who's really, really struggling. 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:27.200 I've never heard the middle girl thing before,

but when you mentioned it to me yesterday, I couldn't stop thinking about it. 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.679 And I was like, I think that's me as well. 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:34.720 Like I too have a very similar road to my career. 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:37.120 I went to uni because I thought it was what I had to do. 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:38.639 I went to really academic college. 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:42.399 When I say I muddled through that, I mean I muddled through. 00:14:42.559 --> 00:15:01.519 As in I did three non-academic subjects dance, musical, theatre, performing arts, and English literature because I had to do an academic subject because of the college we went to, and I dropped the academic subject after year one when the the tutor said to me, Um, what books did you read over the summer, Hannah? 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:03.840 And I said, Jordan's autobiography. 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:07.360 And she was disgusted. 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:12.399 And I think she through her eyes said, We don't have a place in this class. 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:18.399 And I dropped that and then just did all of the non-academic um subjects for my second year. 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:27.440 And it was almost like because it was an academic college, there was an assumption that, well, even if you do not non-academic subjects, you still go on to do the next level of education. 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.320 So applied for universities to study dance. 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:35.039 But it was literally weeks after I got there that I was like, What am I doing? 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:36.799 What am I actually doing? 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:39.039 Like, this is just not for me. 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:43.840 It's still classroom-based learning, which wasn't who I was at that point in my life. 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:45.279 I wanted to get out in the world. 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:49.440 So when you were talking about the middle girl, I was like, that is me in so many ways. 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:52.639 I've never heard it, I've just never heard it be called that. 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:53.759 I did all right at school. 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.399 I wasn't the most popular, I wasn't, you know, picked on it. 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.159 I was just, I just got by. 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:02.559 And I really liked it because I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:07.919 And it kind of it kind of really connected with me in terms of like I'm a creative inside. 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:19.600 And even though I work in a what probably would be classified as kind of a corporate job, corporate role, it's still in a very creative industry, and I am very informal and creative as a leader. 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:22.399 I don't, I don't behave very corporate. 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:22.720 Yeah. 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:30.799 Um, so I really like that, but I would also, I would also say that when you said it, I was like, this girl is anything but a middle girl. 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:37.440 Like it's the weirdest thing because even though I know what you mean, I also look at you and think, you're not a middle girl, you're a star. 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:40.799 You're you're you're what I would say is somebody that would stand out. 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:44.399 So I just think like it's not a negative thing, is it at all? 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:53.039 It's just like almost like you've found who you are now as an adult, but probably took the long road to get there. 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:53.600 Yeah. 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:59.600 I I think honestly, like that middle girl energy was just more like I wasn't the leading lady of my own life. 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:00.000 Yeah. 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:08.880 And like, for example, I have a friend today who's in between jobs, and she was like, Oh, I'm just trying to put my phone aside because otherwise I could just sit on TikTok all day. 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.359 My structure of my day is not there because I'm not working at the moment. 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.720 And I really resonate with that. 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:17.119 And again, I feel like get yourself back to that leading lady I was like to her today. 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:33.200 I was like, because you're not gonna be getting the job of your dreams, or you're not gonna be, you know, going to that gym class and stuff if you're just sat scrolling on TikTok, which is such an easy thing to do, but that's more middle girl energy, like being the best friend you could be, the best daughter you can be, and that's great. 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.440 But when is all said and done, like you need to look back. 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.839 I I think about I never think about little Rach, I think about old Rach. 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.160 And I want her to be like, Yes, we did it, you know, we gave it a crack. 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:50.559 Little Rach, she'd be like, I knew you had it in you, but you didn't know that at the time. 00:17:50.640 --> 00:18:00.079 Yeah, um, but I just think, yeah, from being somebody who like I love so deeply, like I will, like I say, give my friends, my family everything. 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:06.240 I think I gave everyone everything bar myself, and it was that switch of especially having a daughter, you know. 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:10.319 I was like, she's gonna be looking at me, I'm her first role model based on gender. 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.599 And if I'm not proud of myself, she's not gonna be proud of herself. 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:20.079 And I really also did not want the narrative of like I grew up quite a lot with like you know, oh, what does your dad do for a living? 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:21.279 And mum never got a look in. 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:23.759 It's like mum's quite a boss as well, you know. 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:24.720 I don't want that. 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:31.839 I, you know, I live in a very balanced household and I want that to continue to

be so, and that does come from like your job element too. 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.240 Remodelling what you want exactly to say. 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:43.440 I then I then switched to actually, okay, I'm gonna become the leading lady, but it was kind of still that people-pleasing element of well, I'm kind of doing it for my kid now rather than anyone else. 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:53.119 It's really weird that you've you've just so naturally segueed into my next question, and clearly you are a professional at this, and you must have known what was coming. 00:18:53.279 --> 00:19:01.759 But I was going to ask you, um, if you could have your daughter look at a version of you and take in what she's seeing. 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:09.359 Like, what is it you want her to see from the way that you behave and and and how you've approached this sort of pivot in your career? 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:16.640 I just want her to know that, and my son, but I want them both to know that like you can just go for anything. 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:18.960 I'm very fortunate to be from a family like that. 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:27.200 I, you know, we're not we're very big thinkers, and um I actually realise now that's not a normal that's not necessarily normal. 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:32.880 Most people are just like, oh yeah, but but you've got a great job, so why would you you you're bringing in steady money, so why would you do this? 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:36.400 Yeah, and um, because I've had that feedback, you know. 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:41.039 But I am very fortunate that like my dad changed career at 30. 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:45.759 Um my mum went back to uni in her 50s, and my brother has just quit his nine to five. 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:51.599 We're not nine to five people, guys, okay, yeah, well clearly to start his own business, and it was very, very daunting. 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:54.319 He had to move back in with my mum and dad, he's 28. 00:19:54.480 --> 00:20:02.079 Um, and but it's kind of like we're big picture people, and I just I really want to emulate that to my children, you know. 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:14.079 Like, just you know, if you want to go and sell jam aged six, down the little shop or whatever, or whatever it is, the maker's mark on his ash, like I will help you do that. 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.079 Like, you know, make your own money from a young age. 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.200 I think it's important. 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:22.240 I want her to know, I especially want my daughter to know that she should always have her own money. 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.880 I think like you can be in the best relationship possible, but you just don't know what twists are in the road. 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:36.079 And I think women, you know, I think women have a history of um they rely on their dads, then they rely on their husbands, and then they rely on their sons. 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:37.599 And that's not gonna happen in my household. 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:43.119 You have to know like how to hustle, how to invest, all of that stuff. 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:47.920 And I want her to see that conversation comes not just from her dad, but it comes from me. 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:51.839 Um, and I want her to see I'm like pumped to like go to work. 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:55.519 Like today I told her mommy's off to work because she can't handle it. 00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:00.160 Even if I was going for a coffee with a friend, I have to say work because that's the only way she lets me out the door. 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:05.359 And like she already plays like going to work, like I'm off to work, mummy. 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:19.839 And her nursery teacher said to me, you know, most kids say they're off on holiday, but uh Lou's saying she's going to work, and I kind of love that because she is seeing hard work, she's seeing work ethic, and she's seeing that it's it's coming from both sides. 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:48.319 I really love that, and I think actually it's great that we as women and as as more sort of um yeah, so I would say like le natural leaders are vocalizing it and making it a thing that is okay because I actually think you're right that I think even in this day and age, it's still the assumption that most women are relying on a man in some way financially. 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:51.200 And well, it's just not the case. 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.359 It's an assumption, it's not reality. 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:59.599 Yeah most families aren't in a position to have one income, most families aren't in a position where they've inherited. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.480 Family money because they've got an agent agent population. 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.559 Most parents are still alive and well. 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:10.960 And it's just a very, very different world we're parenting in than what it was, even not that long ago. 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:16.000 But actually, society and the system hasn't really moved on. 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:16.319 Yeah. 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.799 But we've got to find a way of making it work, haven't we? 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:19.440 We do. 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:23.440 I actually sent my brother a meme the other day, which is like it was like a wrecked Barbie. 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:24.640 I'll send you it. 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:30.640 And it was like, you know, like wishing my parents had given me generational wealth rather than a hard worker. 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:32.960 That is us. 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:34.559 Like literally, it's round the clock. 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:35.680 But we love it, we buzz off of it. 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:40.400 And I think if you find something, it's it's it's also a huge blessing to find something you're really passionate about. 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:42.480 Like I know that as well. 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:46.000 That this kind of spark, I think it was always there dormant. 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:50.160

Because one of my friends said to me, She was like, We were like 21, and you said to me, I think I want to be presenter. 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:52.160 And I was like, I don't remember saying that to you. 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:58.720 Um I'm unfortunately nowhere near 21 now, but um yeah, and I think like it was always maybe within me. 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:00.640 I just didn't have the confidence. 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:05.920 And listen, some days I'm like, oh my gosh, like this morning to get out of the house to come here. 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:10.640 I was thinking, This is hectic, but I know that I'm gonna buzz off of this. 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:11.839 I know I'm gonna get so much of it. 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:14.720 I was so excited to meet you and hear your story too. 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:17.039 And like, you know, it's really important. 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:19.680 I parent better when I am doing stuff like this. 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:22.160 I'll go back, I'll have so much energy for them. 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:24.960 Um, it's really important to do a bit for you, I think. 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:26.640 Yeah, I absolutely agree. 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:37.119 And I would say that I have become a better parent since I've been doing this podcast, quite simply because I'm filling my own cup a little bit with it. 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.519 I obviously have, you know, I have a career that I'm very incredibly proud of, and I love my job. 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.440 There's not a question there, but it's ultimately very hard work. 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:48.400 Um I work in an industry which is under a huge amount of pressure. 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:54.480 Um we have a lot of a lot of staff in this building that I have to make sure are well and looked after. 00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:58.880 And that, you know, for somebody in my position, still a lot of a lot of weight that I carry. 00:23:59.039 --> 00:23:59.279 Of course. 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:10.799 So actually being, you know, having the opportunity to do the podcast and start to build my own personal brand and find a little bit of of my own passion and get that back has been brilliant for me. 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.359 And it also does mean to your point, I go home with a bit more of a spring in my step. 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:21.359 And it's not that like getting home, putting my back on the floor, like you know, breathing a sigh of relief. 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:24.640 Which I'll be honest, in the last few years, it's been a lot of that. 00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:25.359 Of course it has. 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:32.160 And that is normal, but I've tried to take control of my own life a little bit more since becoming a mother. 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:32.480 Yeah. 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:35.279 Because if I don't, who is that's it? 00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:37.920 It's it's I love the title. 00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:41.119 I was like, I have to come on this podcast because it's so true. 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.480 I am just somehow managing all day, every day, and you do get through the day. 00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:44.799 Yeah. 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:54.400 And listen, some people are super fulfilled by playing on the floor with their kids, and I'm just not gonna be that person, and I may get cancelled for saying that. 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:59.759 But I think no, I I'm sorry, I love them, I do, of course I do. 00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:02.079 I I would honestly have like a football team of kids. 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:03.279 I love, I love it. 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:23.200 But I am not gonna be a person who's just gonna be fulfilled by being a stay-at-home mum or going to a baby class every day, like, no, Hannah, like honestly, send me absolute crackers, and that's why that's why I actually went back on the radio at seven after seven weeks having my daughter, which was a bit punchy, I have to be honest. 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.920 This time, you know, we discussed this yesterday. 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:32.079 Like the first one, you are just kind of getting through it, somehow managing, you know, you're not sure if everything is a phase. 00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:36.400 The second one, I was like, oh, time goes very quick, it's more precious. 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:43.440 So I actually have taken more time off than I probably would have or I did the first time. 00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:48.079 Um, I say that I'm only four months postpartum, but to me, I'm like, oh my god, is everyone gonna forget me? 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:49.680 And am I not gonna get these opportunities? 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:56.319 Oh I'm taking my son to like meetings with like big cheeses from big broadcasting houses, and it's it's hilarious. 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:01.680 But I'm also a bit like even if that fails, which quite honestly, like some of them are failing quite drastically right now, Hannah. 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:08.799 But like, I'm taking him because I don't have the childcare, and also I'm like, well, if you want to work with me, this is the setup, yeah, you know, and this is me. 00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:21.279 I'm really proud of you for that because I think that says a lot about backing yourself, and you're not gonna win every time and you are gonna be rejected, but I do feel like that is what happens is anyway in life, yeah. 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:26.960 But also, you have to absolutely warts and all put it out on the table and be okay to what comes off the back of that. 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:33.200 I know I had a really funny moment the other day, so I went to quite a big meeting and it was all going quite well, I'll be honest with you. 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:34.079 It was going really well. 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:45.519 Um, having a really nice chin wag, and the guy said to me, Oh, I just fed my son, and my son is uh he's got reflux, which if you don't know what that means, it basically means he spews up quite drastically every time he

drinks. 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:50.960 And um, I was and he I just fed him and he was doing really well, chill baby, he's a really good boy. 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:55.759 And the guy at the end of the interview, shall we say, says to me, Oh, I love babies, Rach. 00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:56.480 Can I hold your son? 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:02.960 And I was like, and then can just to p paint the picture, this guy is like in a very swift suit, he's got the big watch, all this. 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:05.920 And I was like, um, and he was like, Oh, I love them. 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:06.799 Come on, let me have a go. 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:09.599 And I was like, I'm gonna be honest, he is a spewy baby, but yeah, sure. 00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:14.799 The most amount of spew that happened, like literally was like projectile vomiting over this guy. 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.240 I had to like send him a message being like, I'm so sorry, can I pay for your dry cleaning? 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:24.000 I am yet to hear back, but I'm like, you know, I'm I'm just like putting myself out there. 00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.559 I'm getting a lot of micro-rejections, which is a lot on the city. 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:31.119 We've got that story. 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:32.400 I can tell Triss the story. 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:36.480 Yeah, and I also think I do think there's something quite iconic about taking your kids along. 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:39.759 I do think, like, maybe it's not benefiting me in the long haul. 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:45.039 Like my friend said to me the other day, she was like, Oh, maybe, maybe it's not really working out because you're bringing the kids with you. 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:46.880 But I'm like, Well, what other choice have I got? 00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.519 And also they know I'm very fresh postpartum. 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:51.119 So And you know what? 00:27:51.279 --> 00:28:00.000 For every 10 interviews or conversations that you have, nine of them may well not go their way, but there will be one in ten, and sometimes that one is all you need. 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:02.559 You just have to keep rat-tatting in correctly. 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:08.720 Like, I honestly messaged someone again, he's like quite chief cheese at a different broadcasting situation. 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:14.319 And I voice noted him, I haven't heard from him, and like every month I voice note to see if I'm gonna get a response because he's not said no. 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:19.119 And I went rat-ta-tat, so and so, just me again knocking. 00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:21.279 And he was like, I've not forgotten about you, I'll come back. 00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:25.920 But like, I think you also have to remember like we do live in a world of rejection. 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.559 Like, you might be going, like you might be on whatever dating app, and like that is savage to the soul. 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:34.319 Like, that is rejections, rejections, rejections until

maybe you meet somebody if that's what you're doing. 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:36.799 And you only need one partner, you just need one. 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:38.480 Well, some that's what you're into. 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:40.960 Like, you know, some people might want more. 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:45.759 But I think, like, you know, we live in this day and age, but it builds up resilience and resilience. 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:46.480 You need it now. 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:47.039 You just need it. 00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:48.000 Oh, yeah. 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:54.559 I mean, that kind of does touch on a topic that isn't in my list, but I would like to talk about in terms of like that sort of gentle parenting. 00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:57.119 What type of parent do you think you are? 00:28:57.440 --> 00:28:59.680 What does gentle parenting mean again? 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:08.400 Well, there is a there's a difference, isn't there, between gentle parenting and permissive parenting? 00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:09.039 Is that the word? 00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:10.079 I might be getting a bit more than a bit. 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:11.039 I don't read any books probably. 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:26.720 I think there's a difference between gentle parenting is uh is uh supposed to be something along the lines of when you get on a level with your child and try and basically treat them like a normal human being, not that subordinate relationship. 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:27.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:35.440 Um and I think permissive parenting is again, I probably am getting this terminology wrong, but is basically where you just soft ass and just let them get away with murder. 00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:38.079 No, um or or all the other way around. 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:40.720 But any of those, do they any of those? 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:44.720 I think like all I want for the kids is for them to be polite and funny. 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:47.519 I think that's a good combination that will get you through. 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:47.839 Yeah. 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.359 If you're that middle girl or guy, like I think it will get you far far. 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:53.119 It's kind of got me kind of this far. 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:57.519 Um, I'm hot on the politeness, like manners, manners, manners. 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:02.799 Like I literally look at my daughter Lee, and if she's not said please, she just knows she goes, please. 00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:07.279 But like, you know, and like the other day someone said to me, Oh, she's like really funny, isn't she? 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:10.319 And I was like, She's three guys, okay, but it means a lot. 00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:12.240 And someone else said, Oh, she's so polite. 00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:13.440 And I thought, yes, we're winning. 00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:15.440 I'm really hot on that kind of stuff. 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:20.160 Like last night, for example, you could easily lose it because you just put the baby down. 00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:21.279 It's just two in the morning. 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:26.400 I just put my son down, he still gets up in the night, he's four months, so we'll let him off with that. 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:38.720 My daughter Lou, she's always been a terrible sleeper, and that's kind of a wee bit our fault because my daughter, my son is my husband, is so much softer on my daughter than I am. 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.400 And I don't know whether it's gender thing. 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:45.759 I don't want to be gender biased with it, but I don't know where I'm like, no, I know she's fine, she's just playing you, and you'll have her in bed. 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:47.920 And I think we've made a rod for our own backwards. 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:52.559 I'm trying to kind of I think I'm stricter, but I wouldn't say we're like super strict. 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:57.279 So, like last night, for example, I could have easily been like, come on, like lost it a bit. 00:30:57.359 --> 00:30:59.920 Like, you need to go to bed, your brother's upset, like, come on. 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:02.160 And actually, I'm the eldest daughter. 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:05.519 I and and I notice a lot from my own upbringing. 00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:10.319 Like, I love my brother to bits, but I was almost like a second mother, and I don't want that for Lou. 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.480 I want her to be her own woman, and that starts from three, it starts from as young. 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:22.480 I don't want and I so I don't want to use the language of like, oh, you're like bothering your brother, because actually you're three years old, you're having nightmares, less level. 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:26.640 So I actually ended up sleeping in her bed, and I was like, This is it, me making the rod for my own back. 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:32.480 So I would say, like, I'm a bit stricter, like you know, meals always have to be at the dinner table. 00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.160 That really whereas my husband would probably be like, Oh, you can have a sofa dinner. 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:39.279 But I'm like, no, because if we start that, you set a precedent. 00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:41.119 So that kind of thing. 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:48.480 Um, I always try and like get her, like if we're at the shops, I'll say, like, you go and put the milk up there and ask the lady for the milk and say thank you. 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.640 I just like build the confidence, and if she doesn't want to, we'll try again. 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:54.799 Like, she really got a fright on a big slide. 00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.240 I got her back on that slide again. 00:31:56.319 --> 00:31:57.279 It's like riding the horse again. 00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:02.960 So, and that kind of pairing, I'm like, oh, I know you've grazed your knee, but like I don't want you to have a phobia about that, so let's go again. 00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:05.680 I'm not gonna say I'm perfect, I'm

absolutely not. 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.799 I really like they test you, these children. 00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:10.160 Oh my god, they do. 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:13.599 But um, I wouldn't say I'm super soft, but I'm definitely not like super strict. 00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:21.839 It's it's funny, you said something earlier about like how obsessed you are with your kids and you love them more than anything, you do anything for them, but you don't want to sit and play on the floor with them all day long. 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:22.079 Yeah. 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:30.000 Well, when you were talking, I was like, it reminded me of a piece of content I put out on I think probably a couple months ago now about. 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:34.880 Um I went to nursery parents evening, which is hilarious, by the way, because what the hell are they gonna tell you? 00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:36.079 And you have to sit in the little seats. 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:37.759 We had sick shits the other day. 00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:38.720 Like, do you know what I mean? 00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:39.920 What are they gonna tell you? 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:55.519 But the reality was I actually was quite an important one because um they were talking about him transitioning to the next room up, and on the way home I cried and I was like, I'm not that person, I am not, I'm I am I'm maternal, but I am not hugely emotional about parenthood. 00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:02.079 I'm just not so I haven't been hugely emotional this whole time about the fact that he's gone to nursery. 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:07.519 I had moments and I did have a little bit of that guilt in the early days, but overall I've been really comfortable with it. 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.759 He loves it, I felt great about it. 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:13.680 Um, I've worked very hard on myself to not carry all of that burden. 00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:20.559 And anyway, I I cried and I was so upset at the thought of him. 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:24.799 It felt like two minutes ago he was just going to nursery, he couldn't walk. 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:29.039 I was handing him over at the door, he was still, you know, drinking milk three times a day, all of that. 00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:32.960 And all of a sudden now he's walking, talking, going into the the transition. 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:36.640 It hit me like a brick wall. 00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:42.400 And it it reminded me of how fast it all goes and the fact that he's in nursery full time. 00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:51.519 And I did have for that five-minute meltdown all of the feelings that I've been probably burying really, really deep for 10 months. 00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:56.880 Um, it all came flooding back to me to say, God, I'm missing out so much of his life. 00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:58.880 He's in nursery more than he's at home with me, all of that. 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:01.759 But then I also had this realisation at the end of my five-minute meltdown. 00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:03.759 What the fuck are you on about? 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.799 Because the reality is I'm not that mum. 00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:11.280 Yeah, I'm not that mum that is going to play all day long. 00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:19.280 I it is not who I am, and I think as mums and as women, we have to find who we are, yeah. 00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:24.159 That mother, who what is the best version of us that we can give to them? 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:29.599 And forcing sitting on the floor and playing play-doh with them isn't for me. 00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:59.440 No, because I I will do that on the odd occasion, of course I will, and I will enjoy it when I do it on the odd occasion, but I'm not gonna be able to find activities for him to do all day long, and crafts aren't my thing, so we don't have a crafts box at home because he has crafts at nursery, but we do other things together, and I've got really comfortable with that, and I think I want everyone to feel anyone that's listening to this and anyone I meet, I want everyone to feel like it is okay to say out loud it's not my thing. 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:03.280 He goes to nursery for those things, and they are incredible with him. 00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:05.679 He is at home there, he loves it. 00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:23.760 Who am I to say that actually, just because I've got a little bit of guilt every now and again, that I should bring him back to our house where he doesn't have all of those things, and I just think it's it's a really important part of the transition back to work and us back to who we are, as well as being mums that we admit that out loud. 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:24.559 Yeah, definitely. 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:33.840 I mean, I I will say I actually am quite an artistic person, so I quite I like the arts and the crafts and the paint, and that you know I'm not like precious about. 00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:36.400 I used to be like love the aesthetic of my home. 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:39.920 I'm doing it right, I still love interiors, but I'm like, this is not the era of like era for. 00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:40.960 Oh, I agree with that. 00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:52.079 Um, but I I absolutely agree with you, like all day, like they need the stimulation, they need the socialization, and obviously you can tell for me socializing is very important to me. 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:56.079 I, you know, a really important that my kids are like well socialized. 00:35:56.239 --> 00:36:09.039 That is gonna come from being around other kids, and you know, they need to like you're basically you have kids to like nourish them through the world, but like one day they will leave and they need to have their own skills, they need to be able to, you know, fend for themselves. 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:13.440 And again, it starts from a really young age, and you can tell the kids who haven't gone, and that's absolutely fine. 00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:16.719 Um, but like you know, they need to know that biting is not

okay. 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:20.320 You can't just go up to someone aged like 21 and go and bite them on the arm. 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:21.519 Like, that's not a greeting. 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:22.400 Do you know what I mean? 00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:24.960 And yeah, I mean you can, but you will go to jail. 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:26.159 Yeah, well, exactly. 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.679 You need to learn all these things. 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:29.599 So, no, I completely agree with you. 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:36.400 I find like I have the kids three days a week at the minute myself, and I've got a three-year-old and a four-month-old, so like their needs are very, very different. 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:37.119 Yeah, that's hard. 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.320 And I'm just like, it is hard, and I'm just like, I'm not made for this. 00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:51.280 I thought I was made for this, and I'm not, and like you come to the end of the day, and it is more just like I'd love to go and do painting with her, but like I can't sit and like I like doing it, but I can't sit and do it for eight hours of the day. 00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:56.320 I also really don't, I'm not like fully against screens, but I don't want them to become couch potatoes. 00:36:56.400 --> 00:37:00.800 I really don't like I do actually enjoy the odd episode of Bluey myself, so I'm happy with that. 00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:03.599 I I actually can't watch an episode of Blue without crying. 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:04.320 It's so good. 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:05.519 What is it? 00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:06.079 What is that about? 00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:09.119 Like, I don't, I'm not a crier, but you put an episode of Bluey on Facebook. 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:09.679 It's so good. 00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:15.039 Because they they actually bluey is amazing because they tap into like the adults as well. 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:15.360 Yeah. 00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:23.519 Um, but yeah, I'm like really conscious of that, but then you know, then all day you're like, I'm gonna have to run this kid like a little dog, and then I've got the other one. 00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:24.880 So yeah, I mean it's a lot. 00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:29.760 So God bless nursery, and God bless the people who work in nursery because they are special humans. 00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:31.280 I I would agree with that. 00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:46.079 For anybody listening to this or watching this on YouTube will look at you and they will say, There is no way that that woman has ever struggled mentally because you are you are, you know, yellow in your aura is yellow. 00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:48.880 You're so bright and energetic. 00:37:49.840 --> 00:38:01.440 But my observation, having met a lot of people over the years, is actually those are the people that tend to not necessarily struggle the most, but because no one really checks in on those people because they always think they're fine. 00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:12.320 So I really want to get into that as you're comfortable in doing so, because I do think it'll be really valuable for all the listeners that often feel the same, like, oh, everyone thinks I'm I'm happy and you know, all of that all the time. 00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:20.320 So what did that look like for you in terms of postpartum struggling with your mental health? 00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:24.559 Like what how did it unfold and what was your experience? 00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:36.400 Well, I think I've always um struggled with my mental health for a really long time, and I now know I have PMDD, so I think there's a lot in the media about that now, which is amazing that I had it before it was cool. 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:36.800 Okay. 00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:40.960 PMDD is premenstrual dysphoric disorder. 00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:49.119 It basically affects like more women than you would ever know, and it basically um is a very, very severe uh period symptoms. 00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:56.079 And what that can look like and how that manifests in me is that my progesterone, so there's a hormone in me that is through the floor low. 00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:59.599 I don't have very much progesterone because it's very fascinating, Hannah. 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.079 When I'm pregnant, I'm my best self. 00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:02.400 Wow. 00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:04.320 Okay, and I hate to admit that to the world. 00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.559 I would love to, if I could give the baby over, I would do it for people. 00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:10.559 In fact, one of my friends was struggling to conceive. 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:13.920 I was like, if I could give you the baby over, I just would love it too much. 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:15.039 I couldn't let it go. 00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:18.079 But um, and I was like, this is fascinating. 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:18.960 There has to be something. 00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:20.480 I knew there was a chemical imbalance. 00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:28.480 I didn't know at the time until pregnant, and I was like, even Rory was like, wow, this is just how normal people must function. 00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:32.079 Just like not like emotional all over the place. 00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:39.840 And and anyway, I will like so so yeah, and and I now know that when you're pregnant, your progesterone levels shoot up. 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:42.320 Yeah, so I'm like absolutely grand in these pregnancies. 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:44.559 If anything, it's like happy days for the next nine months. 00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:47.599 By the last two weeks, I am not a good person the last two weeks of my pregnancy. 00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:49.119 I'm like, get this thing out of me. 00:39:49.440 --> 00:40:04.239 But anyway, so that's really fascinating because I was like, there must be someone out there who can invent something because I feel I feel so low before my period in that luteal phase, just before your period, I am like the lowest thoughts. 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:05.119 I am not

myself. 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.039 I've just explained to you that I love people. 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:09.679 I love, I mean, I love all this. 00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:15.679 You know, so energized by people, hosting, friends, family, the pod, whatever. 00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:19.039 I am not that person, like just before. 00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:21.679 I I think the world would be a better place without me. 00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:24.800 To be truthful, I've never actually said that out loud to anyone who doesn't know me well. 00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:29.440 But I think it's important to say, people who struggle with PMDD, they have these dark thoughts. 00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:32.320 And you never actually, well, I would never act upon that. 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:34.880 Like, I know I wouldn't because I'm like, no, no, no, this is not you. 00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:37.280 But I'm like, oh nobody likes me, don't have any friends. 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:41.039 I'm just like so on my own, like I'm so on my own, and that's completely untrue. 00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:45.599 I have an amazing network of friends right across the country in different countries. 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:51.519 Um, you know, like I give a lot to my friends and my family, and so I'm like, why do I feel like this? 00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:54.239 Um, it's it's horrible, it's very emotional. 00:40:54.400 --> 00:41:01.280 And when I went to the doctor finally, during the second point, interestingly, so I go and see Dr. 00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:02.639 B, love him. 00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:07.679 And uh we're sat there, we're doing the six-week checkup, which is for baby and for mum. 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:12.239 But we get to the end of the baby bit, and I went, Doctor B, uh can we talk about me? 00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:15.840 And he was like, Oh, I just I just assumed everything was fine. 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.559 And I was like, no, and like we'd gone from like laughing joking, we had quite a lot in common, actually. 00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:24.400 Like, um, this doctor is like part-time GP, part-time pilot. 00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:26.480 My dad worked in the airlines, you know. 00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:27.440 That's what he pivoted. 00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:29.599 My dad pivoted into becoming an airline pilot. 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:30.719 And as you do. 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:31.280 As you do. 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:32.079 That's what I mean. 00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:36.239 Big thinkers, and he wasn't from a family that you know you didn't have that wealth to do that. 00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.480 That was a whole that's a whole other conversation. 00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:39.920 Uh, very inspiring. 00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:41.119 And actually, I grew up. 00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:43.280 I feel like we had like if we had six hours, yeah. 00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:45.360 I'd be like, stop there, let's just go to the pilot store. 00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:45.920 That's it. 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:52.400 But like again, I grew up with someone who was passionate about their job and loved their job to the very last day, and that's I think important. 00:41:52.800 --> 00:42:01.519 Anyway, uh, sorry, I'm going around the house on this, but essentially I was like, I must have postnatal depression because as soon as the baby comes, boom, the tears. 00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:03.519 I'm crying three times a day and then I'm fine. 00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:05.199 Crying three times a day, then I'm fine. 00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:14.559 And I spoke to one of my friends, Jacko, and she's a doctor, uh, also had two kids, and she was just like, you know, it's not normal to cry three times a day, you should be really like actually enjoying this. 00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:19.599 And I didn't have any challenges bonding with the babies, so I was like, that's interesting. 00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:20.400 Go to Dr. 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:20.800 B. 00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.559 He's had three girls, specialized in hormones, incredible. 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:26.639 I was like, I've just met the the right guy. 00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:31.280 I was like, I can talk to you because my husband's obviously medical and my dad's and this, this is great. 00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:35.039 And he was just like, Oh, you know, I thought I was gonna have to go on antidepressants. 00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:41.679 I couldn't believe that someone like me, like, no shame in it, but I was like, but I just don't think I'm depressed because it's only in this luteal phase. 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:45.199 And he was like, I can't believe he was like, You're one of the worst cases I've seen. 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.039 Pedresterone levels are so low. 00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:53.679 I just assumed because I typed in my as you do, typed in my symptoms years ago to mind, actually. 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:55.440 Boom, came up, PMDD. 00:42:55.519 --> 00:43:00.960 I remember sending it to my mum and sending it to what some of my best friends have said, this is me, this is me, Tottee. 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:07.119 And um, yeah, but now it's it's now in the second pregnancy where I was like, Dr. 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:11.840 B, I I can't I can't have my kids see me like this, like every day. 00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:15.039 The my husband doesn't know what he's coming into, you know. 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:18.320 I need this sorted and just so lucky. 00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:26.079 I didn't know that there was anything you could you could do, um, and there's so much you can actually do, and I think with the more awareness that's being raised, hopefully more government funding. 00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:30.079 We've now got Andy Burnham, yes, like let's see what he can do. 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:40.480 Um, I know he's putting a lot into mental health and that kind of thing, but like I can't remember the stats, I don't want to say, but it's like I I remember a really high stat of women who don't even know that they are living like this.

00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:47.280 Yeah, but my symptoms just uh were so apparent after pregnancy that I was like something has to be wrong. 00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:56.000 And honestly, now I've got the diagnosis and I've got a bit of medication, it's not actually antidepressants, it's it's just a um what is it? 00:43:56.239 --> 00:43:57.760 A hypergesterone pill. 00:43:58.960 --> 00:43:59.440 Brand new. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.119 I'm like myself. 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:02.079 It's amazing. 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:03.599 It's absolutely amazing. 00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:04.719 And do you know what? 00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:13.039 I think if anyone listening to this podcast even has an inkling or a slight feeling that there's something a little bit off, there is no harm, is there? 00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:14.159 In going to get checked. 00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:19.679 Because actually, like you say, it was you had one of the worst cases in terms of progesterone levels. 00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.800 And I actually feel like a lot of people think, oh, that's a little bit like me, but it's not that bad. 00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:25.679 So I won't go. 00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:27.199 Well, just go and get checked, right? 00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:28.880 Yeah, especially like a Scottish person. 00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:30.800 We don't go to the doctor, hilariously married to a doctor. 00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:31.920 I would never go to the doctor. 00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:35.039 I, you know, you put everyone else before yourself. 00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:43.440 Um, and oh yeah, and and again, if you do look at someone like me, because my friend even said the other day, she was like, You would never know someone like you struggling in it. 00:44:43.599 --> 00:45:12.639 But I'm like, I don't want to put that version of myself out there, but I'm so happy to talk to about it on like any platform and personally because I think it is important as you say, like this isn't an act, this is me, but I need you to know that I'm human and I have like a very broad spectrum of emotions, and I'm also struggling with this PMDD, like so many people are, and they're and I think the most important key message is like tell your look, your close people, monitor yourself, like write a little diary of like this week. 00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:20.639 I feel like this, because it could be that luteal phase, and go and see a doctor, and if it's not the right doctor for you, go to a different GP because there will be the right one out there. 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.039 That's really good advice, and very practical as well. 00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:32.239 Because I think often people will relate to the stories we tell on this podcast, but we may we maybe don't do a good enough job at saying, So, what can you do about it or what should you do about it? 00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:33.760 So, thank you for sharing that. 00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:42.639 And I do think, particularly around sort of the post-natal stuff, I think it's important that people understand that it isn't actually normal to be crying. 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.199 I mean, every day we all cry when we've given birth. 00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:51.119 It's the weirdest, best, weirdest, scariest, most unbelievable, all of those ups and downs that come with it. 00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:59.119 But to continue to cry multiple times a day, is not and from for me, like everyone's different, but like it didn't manifest. 00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:04.400 I was still getting up every day, I was still showering every day, like you know, uh still very much functioning. 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:05.199 And I think that's what Dr. 00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:11.199 B was looking at me like, like, you look fine, and I was like, Yeah, but that's the whole point, yeah. 00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:11.920 You know what I mean? 00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:13.199 That's the problem, yeah. 00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:13.679 Exactly. 00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:15.280 And no one's going, Do you alright? 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:18.960 Yeah, because no nobody checks in because yeah, you do look fine, you know what I mean. 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:19.760 100%. 00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:26.320 Um we've spoken about the sort of mental health challenges, but we spoke about sleep. 00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:30.480 And I do want to talk about sleep because actually they're so closely linked. 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:44.400 Sleep or lack of, shall we say, yeah, is it sleep deprivation is such a huge thing that I think um it almost comes part and parcel of becoming a parent, right? 00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:48.719 It's the the age old joke when you're pregnant and everyone goes, Oh, get the sleep while you can. 00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:49.599 Yeah, okay. 00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:50.960 But you're not gonna sleep when you're pregnant. 00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:52.880 Yeah, but have you ever been pregnant? 00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:56.400 Because if another man tells me to get the sleep while you can't, I will cry. 00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:58.719 Oh my gosh, you're up, you're up so much. 00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:12.960 I think it's yeah, it's almost become a jovial part of well, just what happens, and of course it is, and some people have better experiences than others, but I wanna I want to talk about it because you've not slept for three years. 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:30.239 I know, and I think it's really important that people understand that you people like even like you, these yellow characters who obviously have loads going on and seem to be really excited about life, are barely getting by because of the sleep situation. 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.320 So, what is that like for you? 00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:37.199 The sleep, I never understood the importance of sleep until I've had children. 00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:39.119 I think about sleep all the time. 00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:41.119 Um, and I'm so annoyed at myself. 00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:43.039 Like, I am a natural night owl. 00:47:43.440

--> 00:47:46.639 Um, so you know, and I think a lot of creative people are. 00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:49.360 So, like my best work comes to me from like 8 p.m. 00:47:49.599 --> 00:48:00.320 to like three o'clock in the morning, and I think that that's actually how I am able to do like a lot of my work, is that like my kids are up anyway, so I just kind of work until I know one of them's gonna be up. 00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:01.679 It's like clockwork. 00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:07.519 Um, I wasn't prepared for how hard it is to have continuous broken sleep. 00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:17.360 Like, I was not prepared for that, and that going back to your question about entering back into your working day, whatever that looks like, that was the hardest thing for me. 00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:27.840 Like having a broken sleep at night and then going into like really big like board meetings, big conversations, like all of the stuff, and being like, sorry, what are you talking about? 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:34.239 And you just you feel incompetent, you and your brain, your chemistry, your brain chemistry is different, like you've got brain fog and all of that. 00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:40.320 On top of not getting sleep, it's I do believe parenting is harder when your kids don't sleep. 00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:43.360 Again, please don't cancel me, but I I do believe it's a different ball game. 00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:47.280 If you are getting a full night's sleep, if I got full night sleep, I don't even know. 00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:49.039 Maybe I would be the next Zoe ball. 00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:54.800 Like, because I'm a person who actually doesn't need 12 hours, I could function on five, I'm not getting five. 00:48:54.960 --> 00:49:02.719 Yeah, um, and because Rory has the job he does, like he's actually dealing with life and death the next day, so he's absolutely incredible. 00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:06.719 Like you took off the day today, so I could do this with you, which is really brilliant. 00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:14.239 So last night it meant that he would help me with the the choral singing that is the crying of both my children at night. 00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:19.679 But like, yeah, I I I find it really hard, like really, really hard. 00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:31.760 I also feel like a failure, honestly, because I'm like, I know that my daughter is because she's older, like they need a big sleep, they need it for their development, they need it for their growth, and I'm like, Why don't they understand it? 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:41.599 Like, I'm I'm I'm sometimes looking at Teddy in the middle of the night, like, mate, honestly, do you understand what I would give to have the opportunity that you have right now? 00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:49.440 Yeah, I don't think it's I know they don't want to sleep, and listen, I was exactly the same child, so you know, she is me. 00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:52.400 She looks like her daddy, but she's my soul, like 100%. 00:49:52.800 --> 00:50:02.320 So that's why I'm like not super hard on her when she's waking up at night because I know that I used to be a scared of the dark, and I know that that shadow of that whatever would scare me too. 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:10.880 So I I I empathize, but I'm also like and I know you probably don't want to hear this because it's so annoying when everyone says this sort of stuff to you. 00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:25.920 But it was good advice that I got when I was going through some of Teddy's really, really bad stages, and everyone reminded me of the fact that these years they are short in the grand schema thing, and I know when you're so sleep-deprived, it's like literal torture. 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:26.159 I know. 00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:27.599 So you're just thinking, shut up. 00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:35.360 Like, seriously, you are thinking that when someone's trying to give you advice, but it it's weirdly is you will look back on it and be like, it's been so fast. 00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:36.480 And listen, you had another baby. 00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:38.480 Yeah, I know, but you've been glutton for punishment. 00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:41.280 I know, I've not been put off, and I'd have another one, honestly, no bother. 00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:46.000 I always say that while it's actually we we we whinged about it, oh well, as you do. 00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:47.360 This is hell on earth. 00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:49.599 We were always like, you know, 10-hour sleepers. 00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:51.760 We've like this was such a shock to our system. 00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:59.039 And I I too would have probably already been pregnant now and had another one if it was physically, biologically possible in the time that we've had. 00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:02.159 Um, and I probably would have, if we started younger, had about 10 kids. 00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:02.400 Yeah. 00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:05.280 And I would still moan about the sleep, but it wouldn't put me off. 00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:14.719 So I think that is really, really good context for people that are thinking, oh well, if you know, if they've not got kids of their own, yeah, and they're just hearing all of these horror stories. 00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:14.960 Yeah. 00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:16.480 It doesn't last forever. 00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:17.760 It's still worth it. 00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:20.800 The it is good outweighs the bad, passively. 00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:32.960 I mean, I am an advocate of like, you know, really do think about it because um, you know, we do live in a society like we were saying, like you kind of fall into things like you know, don't fall into having children because you think that's what you should do. 00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:34.400 Really think about it if you want to have children. 00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:36.719 You can still live a very fulfilled life without children. 00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:41.360 The path I definitely wanted to take was I am a dog person, a baby person.

00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:51.199 I I always knew I wanted a lot of I like people, so I want a big bustling home, but I was not prepared for I thought you know, I can function on quite little sleep. 00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:57.280 I worked in PR for 10 years, but like it when it's constant, that's the tough bit. 00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:02.639 Like you can you understand a baby, of course, they haven't like developed their sleep rhythm yet. 00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:16.000 But when it's now you're three years on, and I think what I do find really challenging untruthfully is when all my friends are like, Oh, but so and so sleeps seven till seven, and you're like, you just feel like you're feeling you feel like a personal they don't they don't mean it. 00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:27.599 I'm like, great, but like that's not irreality, it's quite isolating, and so I love when I have other friends who are like, Oh no, so and so hasn't slept for eight years, and you're like, Okay, but you know, it makes it better. 00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:39.280 You don't want anyone else to feel the way you feel, but equally you need to have those relatable conversations because otherwise you you're only ever gonna look inwardly, which is wrong, but that's how motherhood and parenthood works, right? 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:40.800 Yeah, you're constantly questioning yourself. 00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:56.320 Before we sort of get into the final section, which is gonna be like a quick fire five, I want to just ask you one more question about um juggling your um motherhood journey and your family situation with your ambition? 00:52:56.559 --> 00:53:07.280 So um obviously, when I started this podcast, I I really wanted to hear stories from other super ambitious people, men and women, and I am dead keen to get some dads on. 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.719 I actually have some conversations with some dads at the minute that will be great guests. 00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:20.719 Um and I want to understand did your relationship with ambition change when you first got pregnant only when you had your daughter? 00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:30.320 And obviously, I know you pivoted in terms of career trajectory and almost like your passion, yeah, but did it uh change your relationship with ambition? 00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:31.840 Yeah, it did massively. 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:32.639 It spiked. 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:34.639 Yeah, I've always been ambitious. 00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:42.639 Um ambitious to you know create my own money, my own security. 00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:44.239 That's always really important to me personally. 00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:46.559 Now I've obviously got family, that too. 00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:54.079 Um always been ambitious, always looking at like different avenues, but kind of still fell into the kind of normal corporate jobs. 00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:59.199 I worked for like startups, I loved it, but I felt like I needed the security of the bigger beasts. 00:53:59.360 --> 00:54:03.039 They come with their own challenges, but for the wider piece, that was really great for me. 00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:11.199 Um, but no, it really spiked, and it just gave me the confidence to be like, I think one of my favourite quotes someone said to me was, you know, why not you? 00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:16.239 And I was like, uh, yeah, like you know, if so and so is doing it, why can't you do it? 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:18.719 I don't know why Stephen Bartlett's popped into my head. 00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:29.280 I think I've had a conversation about him the other day, but I look at him and I'm like, well, he came from absolutely nothing in Manchester, and look at him now, like, you know, you gotta start somewhere. 00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:31.679 And you might feel cringe, you might feel whatever. 00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:37.440 Like, I am, even though I'm an extroverted person, I'm actually a very private person, to put my life online does not come easily to me. 00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:45.599 I absolutely genuinely hate it, but I know that I need to do that and actually become like a bit more familiar about it. 00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:48.960 You know, I started doing a bit of content on the way here because I thought that might be interesting. 00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:50.880 Um, it definitely spiked. 00:54:51.039 --> 00:55:03.519 Interestingly, having my son, because to our point, like things are a phase and things go very quickly, it's kind of and the journey hasn't been maybe as challenging mentally because I've got the help now. 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:06.800 Um, due to having the PMDD diagnosis. 00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.199 Uh it's maybe plateaued, but it's still there. 00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:11.840 There's still that burn of like, okay, we're gonna. 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:14.639 I was I gave myself the summer, so we're gonna spend. 00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:16.960 Well, your four months post-partum and you sat here. 00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:21.199 Yeah that in itself suggests to me that the ambition hasn't in any way died out. 00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:22.159 But I understand what you mean. 00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:23.920 For me though, it definitely has slightly. 00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:38.400 But I mean I did like a this is not a flex in any way, but like I think to your question of ambition, I I hosted like a very big charity event in Cheshire at I think I was seven or eight weeks postpartum, and I felt very ready for it. 00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:39.199 I was up for it. 00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:41.840 Good for you, you know, and I I really enjoyed it. 00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:43.119 Good, great. 00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:44.159 Let's wrap up. 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:46.480 What's honestly I feel like we could have taught. 00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:47.599 I know it's great. 00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:52.400 I've had loads of questions I've not even asked, but I am going to ask you another time because maybe we'll do a part two. 00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:54.079 Um quickfire,

right? 00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:55.119 So we have already touched on sleep. 00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:56.239 The first question's about sleep. 00:55:56.400 --> 00:56:00.079 If you can, try and answer them in numbers so that we can fire through them quickly. 00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:02.559 But I do know that sometimes they need a bit more context. 00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:05.760 So I say quick fire, it's just five questions. 00:56:06.079 --> 00:56:08.880 I feel like you've got a timer on, no, that's fine. 00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:09.679 Okay. 00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:13.840 Um on average, how many hours sleep do you get a night? 00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:17.519 I think I probably get three to four hours of sleep. 00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:18.480 And it's broken. 00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:19.280 I'm so sorry. 00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:19.440 Yes. 00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:20.320 I'm so sorry. 00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:21.440 I'm so sorry. 00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:22.559 I'm sorry. 00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:23.440 I'm sorry. 00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:27.679 Um how many times have you asked Chat GPT for parenting advice? 00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:31.920 Oh my god, like daily, like absolutely daily. 00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:34.639 I'd I probably ask it like at least once a day. 00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:37.519 Well, yeah, you're not alone there, for sure. 00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:47.280 Um, how many times have you missed the memos from nursery to were to wear like a certain colour or um yeah, like I would how long she's in the nursery? 00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:49.840 Like like five to eight times. 00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:50.719 Like, no question. 00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:53.119 And she's only been five to eight months. 00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:57.840 Yeah, there's many a time where I'm like, run back to the house, get the kit, run back. 00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:01.599 I'm keen to know if, well, in fact, maybe that's in my next business idea. 00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:02.960 I'll write it in my notes after this. 00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:07.840 There needs to be some sort of app or system that alerts you all of the calendar days. 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:17.199 Because our nursery has an app, but what it doesn't do is tell me the night before all the it puts the the dates in the diary for well in advance, but I need to know on the morning of when I'm dressing him. 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:17.679 Definitely. 00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:20.559 But also, I don't have all these colour clothes, he's a neutral baby. 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:24.239 Um how many things have you missed of your kids? 00:57:24.639 --> 00:57:29.119 I know they're very small, um, in the past year because you had to work, like stay in plays, anything like that. 00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:30.000 Do you know what? 00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:35.679 I uh I actually haven't missed any, um, but that's because my life right now is very flexible. 00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:37.440 But I'm conscious that's gonna change. 00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:38.400 I know I am conscious. 00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:44.480 I like at the moment, I know it's quick fire, but like I do like I work for Wrexham, FC. 00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:47.039 It's obviously off season at the minute, it's just about to ramp up. 00:57:47.199 --> 00:57:52.400 So like I put the kids to bed at seven, I'll do the evening, or I'll do a Saturday. 00:57:52.480 --> 00:58:00.159 So I'm I may be missing out on like play dates on a Saturday, but like the big moments, like my daughter graduated from Nurse for the day, like I was very fortunate to be there. 00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:01.599 I might not get to be there for my son. 00:58:01.840 --> 00:58:04.559 So it comes like it comes in waves. 00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:05.679 Right now it's going well. 00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:07.360 You're doing yeah, you're doing it well. 00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:14.159 Um finally, how many, if ever, times in your career do you feel like you've been treated differently because you're a parent? 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:15.519 I like it's off the scale. 00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:15.760 Yeah. 00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:16.639 Yeah, it's off the scale. 00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:19.440 I mean, I gave you that example of like I thought that interview was going really well. 00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:20.559 You know when things are going well. 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:22.000 I'm a really gut-feel person. 00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:22.239 Yeah. 00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:26.000 But I kind of do feel like because I brought my kid along, it's kind of hindered me. 00:58:26.239 --> 00:58:31.519 Um, I mean, I was there's so many, so many examples I could give you. 00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:32.400 So many examples. 00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:43.360 In my in the previous episode I've recorded, we've really got into a lot about the sort of system and um various challenges around going back to work, transitions, and things like that. 00:58:43.519 --> 00:58:49.039 And to actually today we focused a lot more on the motivational side and the inspirational side. 00:58:49.119 --> 00:59:01.599 And I think because your story is so positive and we are talking about a lot about your future, and I wanted to try and make this a really positive episode because I think it's important that people see very good examples of how it can be and how pivots do work. 00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:19.760 And I really wanted to make it like that, but you've touched there on something that obviously is a huge, huge part of what this podcast is all around, and that is um systematic problems and failures that mean that being an ambitious mother going back to work is just not very easy. 00:59:20.079 --> 00:59:24.960 And I think you know, we could whole we could have a whole other episode talking about it. 00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:39.199 You've worked in um for small businesses, for big corporations, you know, with big broadcasters, and your experience isn't positive overwhelmingly across the board because the system is not where it should be. 00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:44.320 I mean,

it's not developed since like the industrial revolution, genuinely. 00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:47.440 If you look back at it, it's honestly not developed since then. 00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:51.280 So this is why it's like much, much harder for women. 00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:55.920 It it is, and like we've come a long way, but we've still got a long, long way to go. 00:59:56.159 --> 01:00:02.960 Um, you know, like going back to my corporate job, like you know, I know that I will be away from home quite a lot more. 01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:06.000 There's not not really a lot of flexibility in that. 01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:09.119 Um, and that's something I have to really like consider, you know. 01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:18.239 Um yeah, I mean, absolutely, there's just like so, so many examples that I find I am so open to talk about being a working mother. 01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:19.199 Absolutely. 01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:25.119 What I find really, really fascinating and a bit frustrating is that nobody would ask my husband, how is it being a working dad? 01:00:25.519 --> 01:00:27.039 They just don't they don't ask men that. 01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:28.960 And I find that like quite jarring. 01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:29.760 I agree. 01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:47.599 And actually, when I mentioned earlier about wanting to get dads on this podcast, the reason why I want to do that is because yes, I want to ask them, I want to dig into it a little bit more in terms of how do they sort of perceive it, but also I feel like in order to start to genuinely change the conversation, we have to talk about working parenthood. 01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:49.679 We have to start talking about it like that. 01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:56.159 We can't assume if we talk like it's always on the mother's shoulders, it will stay on the mother's shoulders forever because that is how people perceive it. 01:00:56.559 --> 01:00:57.679 We have to change the language. 01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:03.440 I'm not gonna do that in isolation on my own with this very, you know, insignificant in the grand scheme of things podcast. 01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:12.000 However, I'm hoping that the more I talk about it, the more people talk about it on social media, the more we change the narrative and it just becomes the norm. 01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:15.280 I'm really, really conscious of time and I want to carry it. 01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:18.960 Um but one final question for me. 01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:24.000 Um, what is next for Rachel Aitken and where do you see yourself in the next few years? 01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:38.159 I mean, in a very like ideal world, professionally, I'm assuming that question is, um, I would like to, you know, not be doing the nine to five, and you know, I've said it, I've said it to their faces, so here I go. 01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:45.920 Um, I would love to just be a full-time broadcaster on the nationals, um, pursuing that kind of thing. 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:50.239 I mean, if you ever see me working at like Pride of Britain, you know that like I've made my personal goals. 01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:52.239 Like that is like my favourite show of all time. 01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:55.119 Um, yeah, I would love to pursue it full full-time. 01:01:55.199 --> 01:01:59.280 Like, honestly, that would just be incredible to be like on a national radio show. 01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:00.880 I thought, I think that would be amazing. 01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:05.679 Wow, thank you so much for really open, honest conversation. 01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:12.639 And having just met you today, I think you've got a pretty good shot, is what might be my would be my judgment. 01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:13.840 Um, so thank you so much. 01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:14.320 Thank you. 01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:15.440 It's been an absolute pleasure. 01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:16.639 No, thank you for having me. 01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:17.840 A real privilege to be on. 01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:19.039 Thank you so much. 01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:24.719 Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Somehow Managing. 01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:28.480 If you enjoyed what you heard, it would mean a lot if you could hit subscribe. 01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:33.039 It genuinely helps more people find the show, and more importantly, find each other in it. 01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:37.119 And if you've got 30 seconds, a quick rating or review helps us more than you'd think. 01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:39.679 It's one of the biggest ways new listeners find the show. 01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:46.800 You can also follow us over on Instagram at somehow managing underscore for clips, behind the scenes, and more from each episode. 01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:51.519 And if this one's landed with you, share it with someone else who's also somehow managing. 01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:55.280 Thanks for being here, thanks for listening, and see you next time.