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00:00:00
Speaker 1: It's time for our weekly conversation with legendary sports writer Larry Stone. Brought to you by the Ram Restaurant and Brewery. Bigger, better, and fresher since 1971. With eight Puget Sound locations from Marysville to Lacey and everywhere in between. There's a Ram near you. Now with Softie and Dick, here's Larry Stone.
00:00:20
Speaker 2: All right, it's not our weekly visit because we ended that when the baseball season ended, but we still wanted to give the Ram a little plug on the air.
00:00:26
Speaker 3: Larry, have you used up all your Ram credit from Mr. Fane over here?
00:00:32
Speaker 4: I have not.
00:00:35
Speaker 5: I have enough to go probably weekly for the next couple of months.
00:00:38
Speaker 3: I love it.
00:00:39
Speaker 5: All right.
00:00:39
Speaker 3: So then we'll give whatever's left over to Jackson. That is what we're saying.
00:00:42
Speaker 2: I was going to have Dick, you know, maybe, maybe fluffy a little bit with some more Ram, but we'll give it to Jackson on that. Hey, listen, we wanted to get you on, obviously, let the dust settle on all this stuff, all the hirings over at the Mariners.
00:00:54
Speaker 3: So why don't we just give you the floor?
00:00:57
Speaker 2: It's been a week since the Mariners hired Jason Kanzler as their new skipper.
00:01:00
Speaker 3: We're working on getting him on next week, by the way, guys, on the radio show.
00:01:04
Speaker 2: Give us your reaction to the new Mariner manager.
00:01:09
Speaker 5: Well, I was extremely surprised, I'll admit it. I didn't think they would go for another manager with no managerial experience. I mean, Jerry DiPoto has hired three managers, none of whom had ever managed before when he hired him, from Scott Service to Dan Wilson, but now Jason Kanzler. And I didn't think he was going to go that route this time. And so color me skeptical. Uh, you know, he, he, he went, I think on my last show with you guys, I mentioned that the manager should have some, the new manager should.
00:01:45
Speaker 4: Have some gravitas, you know, some command.
00:01:48
Speaker 5: Uh, and he will bring little of that by virtue of his resume. It will all have to come from the strength of his personality. Uh, and he seemed to have a, you know, a strong commanding presence in his press conference, but you know, players, I just wonder if there's going to be some, uh, reluctance to, to buy in because he never played in the majors, never managed in the majors, never managed anywhere, you know, maybe he'll win them over. And he seems to have a lot going for him, but, uh, My preference would have been for somebody like Rocco Baldelli, who has managed before. But I think we all need to give him a fair shot. But my initial reaction was not 100% positive.
00:02:30
Speaker 6: That's totally fair, especially when... depoto explicitly said before the hiring that he wanted to find somebody quote with the ability to challenge us all to improve and point out organizational blind spots how is jason kanzler ever going to have the chutzpah to come out year one and say you know what you're doing this wrong this wrong and this.
00:02:50
Speaker 5: Wrong yeah that's that's that's a good point uh and how will he really know i mean it's He was a farm director for three years. That's the extent of his experience. He's not been a general manager. He's not been a manager. He's not been a bench coach. He was on the bench under Dusty Baker, who's a formidable manager, in 22. I think that was the year they won the World Series. So he does have that going for him. But yes, he's 36 years old. He's the second youngest manager in the major leagues. Behind the Nationals manager, he'll probably be younger than some of his players, depending on how the roster shakes out. But he does seem to be a guy filled with ideas, who believes in analytics and that sort of thing. So maybe that will be his route to tweaking what they've been doing in the past.
00:03:45
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:03:46
Speaker 3: So let me just make sure I get the timeline right.
00:03:49
Speaker 2: Jerry DiPoto did not hire Mike Socia in Anaheim, correct? I think he was already there when Jerry became the GM.
00:03:56
Speaker 4: For sure, 100%. Yes.
00:03:58
Speaker 3: That was acrimonious, apparently, between the two of them.
00:04:02
Speaker 2: He didn't hire Lloyd McClendon, had to fire him. So Jerry DiPoto, as a general manager, has hired three managers, and none of them have ever had any experience before they were hired.
00:04:13
Speaker 4: Okay.
00:04:14
Speaker 3: Not to say that Kanzler can't work. He might be a Hall of Famer. Who knows? Like you said, Larry, just see what happens.
00:04:20
Speaker 2: Does it say anything about the willingness of established personalities and managers to work with Jerry DiPoto that he's literally never hired one?
00:04:33
Speaker 4: It could.
00:04:34
Speaker 5: And it could say something about Jerry's desire not to have a strong manager under him because of the clashes he did have with Socia, who was about the most entrenched manager in baseball and had the complete backing of Artie Moreno, the owner. I don't think he wants another situation like that. So, you know, I'm just curious what happened with You know, the established names, you know, Baldelli, I think, would have had an excellent chance to be named the manager. He was coming in for an interview. He had the credentials. And then he pulled out. I'd love to know the circumstances behind that. You know, Tori Lovullo, he was under contract with the Diamondbacks. I understand why that didn't work out. Same with Steven Vogt, under contract with the Guardians. But the fact that it came down to Joe Espada... who has minimal experience, but he did have experience. And this guy, it just makes me wonder about what happened to all the other candidates out there who did have experience and why they were ultimately passed over.
00:05:38
Speaker 6: There's a theory out
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there that none of those guys wants to work with Jerry DePoto.
00:05:42
Speaker 3: That's what I was asking. So do you think it was more.
00:05:47
Speaker 6: you know, Jerry not wanting to find a veteran manager because of his past or because veteran managers didn't want Jerry and he wanted them?
00:05:57
Speaker 4: Well, that's what I don't know, Dick.
00:05:59
Speaker 5: I mean, and I'd love to get somebody like Rocco Baldelli by myself and with some truth serum and find out. But, you know, I think you have to wonder that for sure because of the fact that he keeps going back to that well of... completely inexperienced managers that he could.
00:06:19
Speaker 4: Have control over.
00:06:21
Speaker 5: With Dan Wilson, less so, I think, because of Dan's stature as a team icon. You know, but this guy has no stature whatsoever. So, you know, the imprint of Jerry is bound to be strong.
00:06:37
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker 3: Well, like you said, Larry, it's all about his personality.
00:06:41
Speaker 4: Right.
00:06:41
Speaker 2: And just because he's young doesn't mean he can't be aggressive and can't have a real belief in what he's doing. Maybe behind the scenes is a little cocky. Maybe he's a little arrogant, which might be a good thing for this baseball team.
00:06:53
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
00:06:54
Speaker 2: I mean, you tell me what what would you be looking if you sat with Jason Kanzler in a private meeting and said, look, man, here's what you've got to be able to do with this team. What would what would the instructions be? What would be two or three traits that you would need to see out of him?
00:07:11
Speaker 5: I mean, I think he's going to have to get buy-in from the players, and he's going to have to show that he can be able to discipline them in a way that really Dan Wilson could have done but never did. You know, when there was loafing by Rosarena, when there was some mental lapses by various other players, he really never... held them accountable, to use the term that everybody's throwing around. I would want to ask him how he's going to do that, and I just will have to see whether the players will uh, respect his authority in that way. You know, he's going to have to win them over again with, uh, with his personality and, and command. And that's just, and, and he's going to have three weeks spring training more, more than likely not a full spring training to do it because of the lockout.
00:08:02
Speaker 4: It's going to be, once this thing gets settled, it's.
00:08:04
Speaker 5: Going to be a whirlwind and he, you know, he's not allowed any contact with the players after December 1st, which is a drawback for a first year manager. So, you know, that, that's stacked against him. So, uh, you know, and I'm just curious about, you know, he's with the one thing that struck me in his interview, uh, press conference, what was, he was asked when he first wanted to manage. And he said, when the marriage contact, I'm sure you all heard that, that, you know, my mouth, my mouth was agape when he said that, like, that's when you, until they called, you weren't thinking about being a manager and this is the guy that they hired. So I'll just, I, you know, I'm wondering about strategically changing pictures, uh, you know, platooning, all that sort of thing.
00:08:44
Speaker 4: It, it, How will he handle that?
00:08:47
Speaker 5: And, you know, the running of the mechanics of running a ball game and that that remains to be seen as well.
00:08:53
Speaker 6: When you heard him say that, did you interpret that as, well, I want to be a manager at some point. I didn't know if I wanted to be a manager yet. Or did you really interpret it as I hadn't really thought about being a baseball manager?
00:09:09
Speaker 4: That's kind of how I interpret it. Okay.
00:09:12
Speaker 5: I mean, that's, that's what it sounded like to me. I mean, maybe he meant it in the, in the other sense that you, that you said, but that's not what he said.
00:09:20
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:09:21
Speaker 5: Uh, you know, that, that, I cut him a little slack. He's never had a press conference of any kind before. You don't have a press conference when you're named a farm director or assistant hitting coach. So I'm sure there was a lot of nerves and maybe he didn't think didn't come out the way he wanted them. And, you know, I, for the most part, I thought he, he did very well answering the questions and such, but you know, I think he got to cut, cut a guy some slack and, on, uh, in a situation like that.
00:09:50
Speaker 4: And just, uh, you know.
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Speaker 5: I'm sure at some point he decided he wanted the job badly and.
00:09:58
Speaker 4: Uh, and, and did everything he could to get it. So that, I think that's what matters. Yeah.
00:10:02
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm with you. It just kind of felt like he wasn't thinking about it. It'd be like me going to Jackson and say, Hey Jackson, you want to be a fireman? And it's just like, not even on the radar. It's not even something you're thinking about.
00:10:10
Speaker 3: It sounds good.
00:10:11
Speaker 2: I mean, your point about the press conference thing is fair.
00:10:13
Speaker 3: He's never done it before.
00:10:14
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, Will Venable was a first-time manager last year and second year, took the White Sox to the playoffs, but he played like 10 years in baseball. He knows how to deal with the media. He's done it before many, many times. So, I mean, I think you're right. You know, the skepticism is fair. We'll see if this works out. You know, it's a young guy that's going to have to come in and be a commanding presence. in the clubhouse and hold these guys accountable, be the bad cop when it calls for it. You know, I love what Pat Murphy has become in Milwaukee. I mean, players seem to love him, but he also disciplines his guys when it's appropriate, like what he did with Cooper Pratt. So I'm just curious to see if he can pull it off. Now, the
roster needs to get changed, obviously. Let's start with Randy Orozarena. Mariners have made the qualifying offer on him. I think there's a few days left or whatever, a couple weeks to accept that or go to free agency. How important is it or not important is it for the Mariners to get him back?
00:11:11
Speaker 5: Well, he's not coming back. I mean, it's it's not it's probably not even worth where it's discussing because.
00:11:18
Speaker 3: OK, forget it.
00:11:19
Speaker 4: I don't think. Move on.
00:11:22
Speaker 5: I see no scenario where where he comes back there. They've pretty much indicated. through Jude and Divish that they're not going to bid for him. The only way that he would come back is if he accepts the qualifying offer, which is not unheard of. Scott Boris is his agent. He's coming off a very good year, and there's not many good bats on the free agent market. I think he's going to get an offer that's going to supersede the qualifying offer. I think you just have to Assume he's gone.
00:11:53
Speaker 2: Does the lockout, the impending work stoppage, does that increase, decrease, or have no effect on his willingness to take that one-year deal, you think?
00:12:03
Speaker 4: It could increase it because I think.
00:12:06
Speaker 5: That teams are reluctant to.
00:12:14
Speaker 4: I think, to make the big signings.
00:12:16
Speaker 5: I think there'll be some signings of medium-level players, but you don't know what kind of financial system there's going to be once this thing is settled. So if you're going to sign a guy for $ 100 million or more, you might want to wait and see what is the new system that's going to emerge. So in light of that, he might say, well, why don't I take the guaranteed $ 21 million, I think, or something close to that. I mean, I suppose that's a scenario, but Scott Boris being his agent, I think that just is not going to be what happens because I think Scott Boris is going to be very confident in his ability to get Randy a four or five year deal.
00:12:54
Speaker 4: For $ 100 million plus.
00:12:56
Speaker 6: Well, it's been a few years since we had a Suzuki on the roster. Now, we've had one in uniform like every year, but he hasn't been on the roster. So what do you think about bringing in, say, a Suzuki?
00:13:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:13:09
Speaker 4: Well, I, I like him. I've always liked him. He's 32 years old.
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Speaker 5: And you know, John Stanton was on record as saying he doesn't like to spend money on guys in their thirties.
00:13:19
Speaker 2: You could have stopped at not spending money, by the way, just so you know, he spends them on his own guys.
00:13:25
Speaker 6: Didn't he?
00:13:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:13:27
Speaker 5: Well, they, they did give, uh, Robbie Ray, a hundred million dollars close to a contract.
00:13:32
Speaker 4: The last time there was a lockout. So, um, but, uh, it's.
00:13:38
Speaker 5: Just curious to me, you got a Rosarena has 30 that maybe they think is, they don't want to long-term invest in. And then there's thinking about doing that with, uh, Suzuki, who's a couple of years older than, than a Rosarena. But, uh, I mean, there's, they've got to show that somehow these, these right-handed hitters who come in with glittering statistics, uh, that come to Safeco field and just flop, you know, we've talked about all the names and, uh, they got to find somebody who can thrive here.
00:14:07
Speaker 4: And, you know, is he the guy? Maybe.
00:14:09
Speaker 5: But I'm just skeptical about any of those guys coming in. I don't care what you show me. Oh, he's hitting 300 against left-handed pitchers. But once they come here, that just seems to evaporate.
00:14:25
Speaker 3: No, no doubt.
00:14:26
Speaker 2: Well, the thing about Suzuki I love is his home road splits are awesome. I mean, he is good everywhere he goes. It's not just about Wrigley Field or anywhere else. He's got a 818 OPS at home, 828 road. I mean, the numbers are great everywhere he goes, so he's very consistent. And Ian Happ's name is getting talked about now. I guess we can just look at every Cub that's available, by the way, in free agency because Kanzler knows these guys. But what about the rotation? I mean, is the piggyback six-man thing done, you think? Are we going to be tinkering around with that next year?
00:15:00
Speaker 5: I think it's probably done, and I think that– I mean, my strongest prediction that I'll give you is that one of the starters will be traded. I mean, I don't see how, I don't see how you could not, when you've got six guys in the rotation now, right. Plus, plus, uh, another guy coming in Sloan coming fast. Uh, and you have definite needs on the offensive and defensive side. uh, your biggest trade ship is one of those starters. So I just, I, I, I'd be stunned if they didn't trade one of those guys and that would ease the, the, uh, piggyback situation. Although you could face that later in the year, you know, Sloan has the kind of minor league season that Anderson did last year and comes up at mid season. Suddenly, even if you traded one of them, you'd have six again. So, uh, Maybe we'll face it down the road, but I think Kanzler will communicate it and execute it.
00:15:51
Speaker 4: A lot better than Dan did.
00:15:54
Speaker 3: Which one do you think is most likely to go?
00:15:56
Speaker 5: I'd say George Kirby because I think his name, he's still a guy that teams believe in, that he hasn't touched his potential yet. Uh, and he's coming off a little bit of a down year, but I think there's an upside to him still. And, you know, he's, I think two years away from free agency. He just seems like he seems like the most likely to me, you know, Bryce Miller is, would be, you'd be selling low on him coming off a bad year, you know, maybe Emerson Hancock, you know, if you, if you don't believe that was for real last year, but maybe other teams don't believe it was for real either. And, you know, Logan Gilbert's a year away from
free agency, uh, So I think that would reduce what you could get back for him. So to me, Kirby seems the most logical as far as getting the biggest return and also having a guy you could fill in his spot from the guys that you would have left.
00:16:53
Speaker 6: Larry, the owner's offer, they've pushed the cap back to 2028. They've said $ 258 million cap, $ 180 million floor, and a 50-50 revenue split. And earlier access to free agency. So it appears, at least on the surface, they're giving a lot. Are you a proponent of what the owners have offered?
00:17:14
Speaker 4: No, I'm a strong no cap guy.
00:17:20
Speaker 5: And, you know, they're still speaking two different languages. I don't see any scenario whereby the players are going to. give in to a salary cap. So it's going to have to be the owners giving in or a protracted lockout that goes for months and months. And I just don't see that as being viable or, or something that even that the owners could, could live with. And, you know, the players don't want to live with that either, but I don't even, you know, it could be a blinking contest and who blinks first. But I, I, I think at some point the owners are going to, to give in on the salary cap, but they're going to ask for, a lot of concessions on various other things to make it tolerable for them.
00:18:07
Speaker 1: Right.
00:18:08
Speaker 4: Okay.
00:18:08
Speaker 3: Well, here's what we're going to do.
00:18:09
Speaker 4: All right.
00:18:10
Speaker 2: Jackson, write this down. It's 621 p.m. on the 11th of November, Veterans Day 2026. I have no idea how much trade Dick Fane has gotten you with the Ram, like the cash value of the trade that you got Larry Stone for the last year. I have no idea what that number is, but I'll make you a deal. I want you to give us right now the exact date that the Mariners play their first game. in the 2027 season. If you nail it, I will make a donation to your favorite charity and triple the amount of money in cash that Dick Fane gave you and ram gift cards and donate it to a charity of your choice. If you can tell us, and we're going to write this down, we're going to keep it, and we're going to keep an eye on it. What will be the exact date that the Mariners will play their first game?
00:19:00
Speaker 4: Okay, I have to hit the exact date. If I'm one day off, it's.
00:19:03
Speaker 3: All or nothing. Charity falls apart, kids get nothing for Christmas.
00:19:08
Speaker 4: Nothing.
00:19:09
Speaker 5: I think that would be pretty astute if I was only off by one day.
00:19:13
Speaker 3: We'll give you a prop, though. You just don't get any money.
00:19:15
Speaker 2: We want to give you a general day, but if you can nail the day, we'll make a donation for you. What day do the Mariners play their first game next year?
00:19:25
Speaker 4: I'm going to say April 15th.
00:19:27
Speaker 3: Ooh, that's not bad. That's not terrible. A couple of weeks.
00:19:30
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:19:31
Speaker 3: Kind of reminiscent of 95 a little bit, right?
00:19:33
Speaker 4: Larry.
00:19:35
Speaker 5: Yeah. And I, and even kind of reminiscent of 22 when they, I think they started a week or two late, but, but filled in with double headers and stuff and still played 162 games.
00:19:45
Speaker 4: I just think that the negotiations.
00:19:50
Speaker 5: Aren't going to really start until March 1st or late February. It's all posturing until then, and then it's going to get serious.
00:19:59
Speaker 4: Maybe it's naive.
00:20:00
Speaker 5: Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I think they're going to have a breakthrough, and they're not going to go through with the– the worst case scenario of months and months of closure.
00:20:13
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:20:14
Speaker 2: April 27th is when the 95 season started. So, you know, a couple of weeks behind, you know, that 12 days behind. So not bad, but all right.
00:20:22
Speaker 3: April 15th.
00:20:23
Speaker 2: I would sign up for that right now because that takes triple bogey out of play. That takes total disaster out of play. All right, Larry, good stuff. Hope you're right on or the charity gets nothing.
00:20:35
Speaker 5: Well, that's also the day the taxes are due. So how about we change it and you just pay my taxes?
00:20:39
Speaker 3: That's fine.
00:20:41
Speaker 2: I'll pay whatever Dick paid you in Ram trade to your taxes. All right, Larry, you're the best.
00:20:46
Speaker 3: Great stuff. Thanks for doing this. And we'll talk soon.
00:20:48
Speaker 4: All right. Thanks, man. All right. Thanks, guys.
00:20:50
Speaker 2: All right, Larry Stone says he thinks there's a chance George Kirby gets traded. Says no way, Randy, a rosary. And it comes back. He's skeptical about Jason Kanzler. And the season's going to start on the 15th of April.
00:21:01
Speaker 3: Outside of that, it's all good. Yeah, we're done. We won't need to talk to him for years.