บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ We Need Couples Therapy!

what I always label that. It's not really about the communication though. 00:02:56 Speaker 2: Right, It's about the exhaustion of having to communicate, and when it doesn't get through, you're just like. 00:03:01 Speaker 1: I give up. Yeah, Like you get into cycle yeah. 00:03:04 Speaker 2: And like really content and you're no complacent. Sorry, you get complained, but you're also just like with kids and work and everything else that's happening, You're just like, that's just the last thing I want to do. Yeah, just have an hour long conversation that's not going to get through in the end. 00:03:21 Speaker 4: I think that's a big part of why people are struggling in their relationships these days. Like stress reduces empathy significantly or wow, that. 00:03:32 Speaker 2: Makes so much sense because I'm a really empathetic person. But there's been situations where I will have someone like break down in front of me and like vent and I'm just. 00:03:43 Speaker 3: Like, your stressed and stuff, and I'm also like I. 00:03:47 Speaker 2: Don't know how to help, just like shut down and then they see that as rejection and like a lack of love or you know, me caring about them. But I'm like, I'm actually just so overwhelmed my sself. I don't know how to handle this. 00:04:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't have capacity. Yeah, I don't really be there for them. Well that's exactly, and that's not a you think, skuy, like that's a brain thing, like yeah, brain, it's pretty crazy, like you you have too much stress hormone to actually be able to hold that space, to be able to be there for them in a productive way. 00:04:19 Speaker 3: I know. 00:04:19 Speaker 2: But that is what a relationship is, right. It's like when one person's dropping off, the other person lifts them up, and it's like, you know, a team effort. Yes, so maybe one person feels like they're doing more and that would cause a lot of issues. 00:04:37 Speaker 1: That's wetly. 00:04:38 Speaker 2: Me and my partner fight about it. It's like we both feel like we're doing so much and we both are, but I'm not seeing what he's doing and he's not seeing what I'm doing. So he's just like I'm doing everything. 00:04:50 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then you're like, well no, because I'm doing everything, and arguments things start. 00:04:53 Speaker 4: Yeah, but someone like you might present to couples therapy, for example, to do some work on your relationship, and you're going to come in with that definition of the problem. That's a really surface level definition of the problem. 00:05:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, all couples only. 00:05:09 Speaker 4: Ever fight about three things what money, power, trust, and value, So that what you're talking about is about value. Do you value me? Do you see me in what I am doing? Respect? 00:05:24 Speaker 3: I'm yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:05:27 Speaker 2: So power does that fall under like finance? 00:05:30 Speaker 1: Power control? As in is it equal? 00:05:34 Speaker 3: Yes? 00:05:34 Speaker 1: Like are you doing more? 00:05:36 Speaker 4: So I think there's a little bit of that coming through in there as well, right, but we can always thematically code it into one of those areas. 00:05:43 Speaker 2: So what are your main coping mechanisms for that? Like what what? What's the word I'm looking for? Exercises do you give couples so that they can combat that issue. 00:05:57 Speaker 4: Well, the unfortunate thing with relationships, it's not as simple as a worksheet or an exercise to be able to do. Most people aren't getting along or aren't able to move forward because they don't have a deep enough understanding of each other's experience. So if you think about it, if I'm arguing with my husband about something similar and I don't understand the context of what he's got going on at work or what might be making him, you know, not doing the chores that I'm getting frustrated about. Then I'm going to come down so much harder on him and vice versa. It's like we're fighting to be understood, we're fighting to be seen. And so my role is more about like creating that communication process either in my rooms or you know, in your home, to help you actually have those conversations without it turning into really unhealthy conflicts. 00:06:45 Speaker 2: So how do you have those conversations? Like if I was upset about my partner doing a certain thing, yep, what is a strategy that or how could I approach it in a way that he will understand and calmly have a have a convo with me? 00:07:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I guess most people will fall into criticism one hundred I do that, pie. 00:07:11 Speaker 1: Such harsh things to the people we choose to be with. 00:07:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't do that. But I remember, like when the runners were happening and I didn't understand anything, and he's like, I'm putting so much effort into this, and I would come to and I'm like, what's happening there? Because I'm really like a perfectionist. But I didn't mean for it to come across as a criticism, but he took. 00:07:32 Speaker 1: It that way. He took it that way exactly. 00:07:34 Speaker 4: Anything that starts with a you, Yes, when a couple is tense can be received defensively. It really increases your risk of the other person getting into a defensive state, which we don't want. So in terms of a skill, you need to soften your startup you start with and my position not even a week? Okay, Yeah, I'm feeling really worried about how long this renovation is taking. It's like stressing me out so much. I'm waking up with anxiety, like can we sit down? 00:08:06 Speaker 5: As a guy, I would actually feel and I'd be like, I'll help you like this, Like that's so too. 00:08:14 Speaker 2: I've tried to be like how can I help? Like I constantly catch myself being like how can I help with this? Like what can we do to get it done? Quicker? Like what do you want me to do? 00:08:25 Speaker 1: Yeah? 00:08:26 Speaker 4: Yeah, So you go very action focused rather than curiosity. 00:08:29

Speaker 1: And how long have you been with your partner? 00:08:31 Speaker 2: Are eight years? 00:08:33 Speaker 1: So common? 00:08:34 Speaker 2: I try curios curous always always, how ask questions? 00:08:39 Speaker 1: Stop assuming that you know everything about I do. 00:08:43 Speaker 2: And then he'll use like trady terminal terminology and I'm like whoa, yeah, and then he he. I feel like he's like you don't get it, and he'll just repeat the same thing. I'm like, you're not going into a enough depth, so I still don't understand. 00:08:59 Speaker 5: I've learned incently though, to talk like calmly and like not with the right torn because I feel like it does have to a degree. But in my last relationship, even if I would talk in the right torn and she's popping off at something, I then get to the point where like I'm just actually gonna remove myself from the situation. I'm not going to get through to you here right now because you're like so emotionally heightened. But then when I leave, it kicks off even more because then it's like, oh, you're running away like problems, and I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, if I don't run away, if I don't like technically run away or like remove myself from the situation, we're just gonna argue because you can just tell by her torn, Yes, so what you do in our sense because I can't win either way. 00:09:39 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I don't have an issue with the like running away. I think it's all in how you run away. Okay, Often, like you think about quartersol, which is our stress hormone is flooded in the brain. We're not going to have a beneficial, productive conversation if we're both really heightened. It's actually a good thing to go to bed on an argument. That's the worst marital advice that could possibly be out there. Never go to bed on an argument, Like always make up possible, Like you need to sleep it off, come back the next day. 00:10:11 Speaker 2: Because have you noticed when you're having a heated argument and then you go to sleep in the next day, you're like, that's. 00:10:16 Speaker 4: Not actually Yeah, because the stress hormone has decreased in your brain, you can actually think clearly. Like when emotion is high, intelligence is ridiculously low. We should not make decisions during high emotions. 00:10:28 Speaker 3: They don't make emotion right. 00:10:31 Speaker 4: I make some terrible decisions postpartum on reflection because I was in such a heightened emotional. 00:10:37 Speaker 5: What would you say the biggest problems are because you mentioned intimacy was a big one. What sort of problems are people have with intimacy? And like how do you fix that sort of stuff. 00:10:46 Speaker 4: With longer term couples, it's often a lack of intimacy, so it's faded and. 00:10:52 Speaker 1: There's no excitement. There are. 00:10:59 Speaker 3: The spark bark is basically like started to die. Yeah, we've become. 00:11:03 Speaker 1: We've become mates, we're friends. 00:11:06 Speaker 2: Just so you're exhausted. 00:11:08 Speaker 4: And yes, that's a factor, But often I think it's when we have particularly when we have children. Yeah, we fail to renegotiate that stage. And what I mean by that is we have two people whose identities has actually changed. We're different people than who we were when we were just the two of us. Yeah, so we focus on yes, the new edition of the baby, but what about like who is Sky now that she's had a baby and who is her husband? Yeah? 00:11:33 Speaker 2: And how are you feeling? What are you going through? 00:11:36 Speaker 3: Yeah? 00:11:37 Speaker 2: But I get Yeah, communication has been a big thing for me, Like I feel like I have a massive luck of it. 00:11:46 Speaker 5: So so what do you what sort of like we'll use it word exercises again, but what sort of things do you advise people then to you know, it's a problem, the problem because actually my actually best friend has just gone through this where they told me this stopped us. Yeah, stopped having like stopping so intimate and stuff. And then so they've actually been together like five years and like they've done they moved in together and everything, and like it just stopped. And he was to the point where like he's like, well, I'm just I've just got a friend now. And then like he was just unsure how to navigate that because he didn't want to be the one to like communicate it to her, like, oh, why we're not so intimate, because then it puts a bit of pressure on the on the sexual side of things, and that might make her feel like even more like resented to it. 00:12:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, see, okay, but I would respect that. I would respect my partner coming to me and being like, hey, I really do want to be intimate with you. Is there anything wrong? How are you feeling? 00:12:40 Speaker 5: But it all depends on how you say say yeah, you say like that, ask guy no problem. 00:12:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that. 00:12:46 Speaker 4: I mean, there's so many things that he he could try, or anybody in this situation. I think one of the first things is, you know, a five year relationship, it's actually really normal to go through bouts of your intimacy not being as frequent, and if you think about it, though, like this. 00:13:04 Speaker 1: Will probably give you an idea of the strategy. 00:13:06 Speaker 4: Like, intimacy number one exists on a spectrum, so it's not just sex, Like we need to also think about Okay, well are we holding hands? Are we interested in the other person and we're asking about their day? Like are there other things in the lower tiers of intimacy that we're also not doing anymore? Because we're almost like too familiar. We're living together now in each other's lives so much, I would feel. 00:13:32 Speaker 2: Like that stuff's more important than having sex. 00:13:35 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's the foundation. 00:13:36 Speaker 2: Questions and being like how's your day and genuinely showing care. 00:13:40 Speaker 4: Yeah, say women four

play starts twenty four hours before sex happens. 00:13:45 Speaker 2: That's why I'm just sometimes I'm like because it's just like, okay, are we going to do it? I'm like, no, I really don't want to. 00:13:54 Speaker 1: Yes, See, it's become transactional. 00:13:56 Speaker 4: Whereas in order for us to have lust and zire somebody, there has to be novelty there. 00:14:02 Speaker 3: Yeah, journey, Yeah. 00:14:06 Speaker 4: It's all about safety, security, predictability. 00:14:09 Speaker 5: That's like the feeling, isn't it, like like you say, twenty four hours before if you're like sort of talking about it or like this's just like something in the air, you feel it and when it happens and it's like, oh, this is actually like spacial it's not just like oh like this, let's as fuck. 00:14:22 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:14:24 Speaker 2: Sometimes I've been in a relationship with the dude where i feel like I'm doing so much and trying to show my love and it just goes unappreciated and it makes some want less sex. 00:14:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, what would you say is the as soon as you kiss by kiss? Right? 00:14:38 Speaker 5: But like general consensus, what's so that healthy amount of sex to have? Would you say from your expertise or just veries too much? 00:14:46 Speaker 2: Yeah? 00:14:46 Speaker 1: The healthy amount of sex is the amount of. 00:14:49 Speaker 4: Sex that the couple and mutually agrees on, right, Okay. 00:14:52 Speaker 2: Yeah see that sasn't weird that you would need to like sit down and have a mutual agreement. 00:14:57 Speaker 4: But yeah, well I guess the amount that doesn't create conflict if we're not hitting that amount, right. 00:15:03 Speaker 2: Yeh See. I wig out sometimes because sometimes it's more than often, and then other weeks will be nothing, and I'm like, what it makes me overthink And. 00:15:14 Speaker 1: That's actually really healthy and normal to overthink that. Oh no, no, no, to Okay, good good god, good good god. 00:15:22 Speaker 4: Oh really yeah, I was like, this is so weird, or your life changes week to week. 00:15:27 Speaker 2: No, yeah, and you're some days you're more stressed than others. Yeah, Yeah, that's so true. 00:15:32 Speaker 4: I think sometimes we attribute too much to the self and we fail to recognize that, like our environment really impacts on these things so much as well. 00:15:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, and people take it personally too. So what about with families and children? Like do you help with children's behavior as well? Yeah? 00:15:49 Speaker 4: So, I mean I'm a qualified clinical family therapist. The majority of my work now is more in that relational couple individuals who are wanting to understand their relational pattern more. But over the years, I've definitely done a lot of work with families, mainly blended families tend to tend to present the most to families that would be hard, it's yeah. 00:16:11 Speaker 5: But I feel like relationships is like something that most people are struggling with the

most these days. 00:16:16 Speaker 3: In these days is the worst. 00:16:18 Speaker 2: But it takes work, and I think people don't want to put the effort in. Yeah, And like it's easy for people to just go out and get what they want sexually, so they're just. 00:16:28 Speaker 5: Like, yeah, that's saying just before, like everything is so accessible these days. I feel like it's like dims the idea of a relationship or like it makes it harder to stay in a committed relationship. 00:16:39 Speaker 4: Right, yeah, absolutely, well I think now it's like a click of a button, you can go and find a better option. 00:16:45 Speaker 3: Why do I have this thing in my head? Then? 00:16:47 Speaker 5: But I always I think the grass is green, and I always want the next best thing. Like I love the idea of love in some day until like I've got them, and then I kind of just like is this it? 00:16:57 Speaker 2: Like, yeah, what is that? 00:16:58 Speaker 3: What is what's my problem? The fucked up? 00:17:01 Speaker 2: It's like that's a dopamine hit though for you. 00:17:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's not even the sex. It's not even not the sex. 00:17:07 Speaker 5: It's more about like like the thrill of like like the lust and like I love all that, Like I love all that. 00:17:14 Speaker 1: Like thought of giving that up. 00:17:16 Speaker 3: No, Like I enjoy like meeting, Like I don't like to go. 00:17:19 Speaker 5: And meet loads of different people like no way, but like if I'm starting out like seeing somebody, like I love that period. 00:17:25 Speaker 3: I think it's the best that makes me because it's like the honeymoon period. Right, But with the right person, it's good. 00:17:30 Speaker 2: I get so nervous to the point where I'm like, that's so uncomfortable. I'd rather be comfortable with someone. 00:17:35 Speaker 5: But then I just start feel like picking up flaws like flaws and I'm just like, oh, this is what I really want, Like it's not as good as it was, and then like it just kind of just goes like that. 00:17:42 Speaker 2: Then, yeah, but why are we always focusing Okay, so for couples focusing mainly on the negative things? What is that about? And can you help them change that? 00:17:54 Speaker 4: That's like a human being thing, right, Like we have this confirmation bias. So if you decide that your partner or someone that you're dating, you notice an ick, it's like you create a belief around that, and then now that's all you see. Yeah, so you have to train your mind to look at those other things about them, maybe like reminding yourself why you like them in the first place. 00:18:16 Speaker 1: Is that still there? Searching for it a little bit. 00:18:20 Speaker 2: But there's always going to be things that you like and don't like, of course, like no one's going to tick every single box. You know. What about the percentages? Is it mostly the women coming to you with the problems or the men. 00:18:33 Speaker 1: Normally the women coming to fix the men. 00:18:38 Speaker 4: I know there's a lot of finger pointing in couple's work, and I think you need two things. 00:18:46 Speaker 2: But it's kind of valid. 00:18:48 Speaker 1: Well maybe in. 00:18:51 Speaker 5: Some cases, like what's what's the most common thing a woman would go to to see you and like talk about a man? Like what sort of things they're going to? Are they questioning? If they're interested? They questioning? 00:19:03 Speaker 6: Like what are they question in the households would be like the household management and the feeling of they're not being equal nothing. 00:19:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, he did. 00:19:15 Speaker 4: Conflict in front of the kids. Women seem to worry about that more. I would say absolutely, absolutely, because. 00:19:21 Speaker 5: It does have a massive impact on the kids, doesn't it huge? 00:19:25 Speaker 3: It's massive. 00:19:26 Speaker 5: It's it's like actually a trauma that you develop as a kid, right, that. 00:19:29 Speaker 1: Becomes your relational model. So often the people. 00:19:32 Speaker 4: Who were privy to that and experience that as kids will then go on to their relationships in future. 00:19:39 Speaker 5: It might be more agment, might be more heated. Just think it's more of a norm without realizing it. 00:19:44 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, guys can't see that. It's really important. I get you blow up and I go psycho to sometimes, you know, in not great circumstances, but in front of the kids. Yeah, I really do try my best. 00:20:01 Speaker 3: To not but like, how can you? How can you stop that? Though? 00:20:04 Speaker 5: I feel like if you're just something just tipped you off and you're having a bit of a poppy shither, like how would you be like, well, you just go yeah. 00:20:11 Speaker 2: Can we have this conversation later. Listening I always say to people little is little is you know, because they listen to everything, they pick up on everything, and they mirror it. They're a literal reflection of you. 00:20:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, children are like the I say, children the barometer of the family. 00:20:29 Speaker 1: So someone rings me about a child that's having a lot. 00:20:32 Speaker 4: Of issues, then like it's tearpical that I'll end up working with the parents. 00:20:38 Speaker 2: I remember one time we had an appointment with a child psychologist for Forrest and then we ended up just popping off to each other over the phone. She's like, I think you guys need to come. Yeah. Yeah, She's like, but I. 00:20:55 Speaker 1: Know that it starts with us. 00:20:57 Speaker 2: Like I know that, and that's really important to me to be like it's us. And that's why when my boys do act out or whatever, I get so upset and emotional because I'm like, that's a reflection of me. I'm not blaming them. That's me and their dad. That's our parenting. We can't blame them, that's us. 00:21:21 Speaker 4: In relationship therapy, we have this saying like there's a function to every symptom, So every symptom that presents is

functional in some way. So often a child school refusing is bringing the parents that might be on the verge of divorce closer together because it's the one thing that they're actually united on, working together to try and fix. 00:21:41 Speaker 1: And kids are very good at that. 00:21:43 Speaker 4: They will develop behaviors in order to watch their parents in a way. 00:21:49 Speaker 1: And they don't do it consciously. 00:21:50 Speaker 2: Necessary. 00:21:52 Speaker 1: Human beings are fascinating. 00:21:55 Speaker 2: I know I didn't realize that when I fell pregnant at twenty four, Like that child's life, any single trauma that they have will be because of you. Yeah, and that's a lot to deal with, Like I guess, so upset about it. But also we're still learning. 00:22:18 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think like with relationships, we're always learning, right, Like, and the more relationships and stuff you have, like the more family and stuff you have, like I feel like you just get better at it, right If you're putting the work and stuff. 00:22:31 Speaker 2: So would you say a more gentle approach is best with relationships family children. 00:22:40 Speaker 1: When you say gentle approach, what do you mean. 00:22:42 Speaker 2: Like, that's okay, sweetie, that's okay, you can have the ice cream and they kick and scream. 00:22:50 Speaker 1: No, I would not say that. 00:22:52 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think that there's an element of what I would call like a stroke and kick of like you know, you're meeting them where they're at, you naming the what's underneath the behavior. But then the boundary needs to come in as well. The same as if like you're in a conflict with somebody your age, like there's obviously a reason why they're upset with you, so you empathize first, but then you put the boundary in place. 00:23:14 Speaker 1: You put like a that's. 00:23:16 Speaker 2: A problem though, a lot of people don't know how to set a boundary, and then the boundary gets crossed and it keeps getting crossed and that's just causing more problems. 00:23:25 Speaker 4: Yes, And one thing that if I'm working with parents but also with individuals from a boundary perspective is I'll often, you know, try and educate them that you don't need to always do it in the moment, Like, sometimes that can be really hard. Like if something had happened between us and you had said something that really upset me, I might not in the moment feel confident or regulated enough to deal with it. 00:23:50 Speaker 1: But I could call you. 00:23:51 Speaker 4: Twenty four hours after and say like, hey, like when that happened, I actually felt really x YZ. 00:23:57 Speaker 1: What I should have said to. 00:23:58 Speaker 3: You was this. 00:23:59 Speaker 1: You can do that with your kids though, too. 00:24:01 Speaker 2: I always do that, Like if I pop off or I'm feeling angry or really upset and I snap, I'll always go to them and be like, I'm really sorry, mummy was so stressed. Yes, I'm so sorry that I

acted that way. That's not how you should act. I was feeling overwhelmed and just like really explained to them not how we should act. But it is a normal thing, beautiful, Yeah, it is normal and some you know, we're all human and we do it. 00:24:29 Speaker 1: So well with kids. 00:24:31 Speaker 4: But it's actually the same in couple dynamics, right, Like couple's conflict is not a problem. 00:24:36 Speaker 1: Conflict can be a really great thing. It means that you still care. 00:24:38 Speaker 4: The couples that aren't conflicting, I'm really conto they are checked out they're distant, they do not give a shit about each other, like. 00:24:51 Speaker 1: A bit of fire. 00:24:52 Speaker 4: But the issue is under repair. We're never we're not taught how to repair, and often our parents are repairing in private as well, so we don't ever see it. We might see the conflict, but then we're like, get to bed, kids, and then the repair might happen after or it just does. 00:25:08 Speaker 5: I can't prepare when I'm in a relationship. I think my ego is too big. Well, I've been working on it, but like I just feel like sometimes but if I know I'm not in the wrong, I just feel like I'm not the one to like sort of bridge the gap. 00:25:23 Speaker 1: I feel like, okay, this way you are in the wrong. 00:25:26 Speaker 4: In their eyes, reality is subjective. You and I can be in the same room and I can be a little bit warm and you can be cold. 00:25:36 Speaker 1: Who's right or wrong? 00:25:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true. 00:25:39 Speaker 4: Is based on my childhood experience, all of my modeling, Like that was my truth. So you can meet that person in their truth without you having to agree on it. 00:25:49 Speaker 2: Or react to it. I remember just when I went to a counseling session once with Lockie and he was getting really upset about my actions, and he was just like getting really heightened, and she sat back in she said, Okay, there's a reason why she's doing those things, but it's your choice how you react. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, So like you've got to really try not to take it on board because that's their issue. 00:26:16 Speaker 1: Yep. 00:26:17 Speaker 2: And I know it hurts if they're acting out or doing those things, but it's like, let's try to understand why. And that's what a lot of people don't even true, Like. 00:26:26 Speaker 5: It's hard for you to understand why. In your head, I don't get it. 00:26:30 Speaker 2: I don't understand at all. And then he obviously has no idea. He's like, that's so stupid. 00:26:35 Speaker 4: I think that's why couples get so much out of the therapeutic setting, because you know, it stops that like conflict cycle and that volatility. 00:26:44 Speaker 1: So we sort of stay regulated. 00:26:46 Speaker 4: We take pauses when everybody's elevated, and then you know, there'll be times where I might like kneel down to the person and actually speak for them, you know, about their history and where it's coming from. And this is triggering for me because it's reminding me of Dad when he used to do this and like that's just so connecting for a couple to actually see the other person as this vulnerable human being. 00:27:08 Speaker 2: No, I actually do feel like that would not be a lot I might babe, I understand why you're doing this. I'm like, and I'm like, you're such a good person, and I obviously know this is what you've learned, this is what you've been through, Like, I get it. But then if they keep doing the same thing over and over again, how do you help them? I don't know. 00:27:31 Speaker 4: That's why you need. In order for couple's work to be successful. You need two things. You need people to be willing, which most people are. I'll come along, but do they do the work? 00:27:42 Speaker 3: Yeah, you've been speaking about. 00:27:43 Speaker 5: Like a lot of like traumas and stuff that like come into your relationships, like play big part in relation stuff. Do you feel like commitment issues is like trauma? If so, what trauma is it? Because I feel like I've got commitment issues and I feel like a lot of people actually do these days. 00:27:58 Speaker 2: Yeah. I wonder what trauma he had when he was looking at. 00:28:02 Speaker 5: That or is it a thing or can you just have like or could you just not have a trauma and then still have commitment issues. 00:28:10 Speaker 4: Yeah, because it could also be related to what Sky was talking about before in terms of that like deep seeking of dopamine, like often will turn to relationships, to flirshing, to looking at other women people in order to get that dopamine here. 00:28:27 Speaker 2: But that's a human nature thing, right Yeah. 00:28:29 Speaker 4: Yeah, So but if there's not that, maybe like discipline there or that like you know, exun attraction control like brain control, then you can be more privy to that. But if, like deep in your soul, you feel like you have commitment issues, more often than not, it comes back to like a fear of vulnerability. Yeah, like not wanting to be like fully seen or like am I actually good enough? Or is there like some perfectionism, some unrelenting standards there. Yeah, it can be multiple different things, but like that fear of vulnerability would probably be the biggest one. 00:29:03 Speaker 2: What age would you say the real trauma start in childhood? Hmmm? 00:29:09 Speaker 1: Well, I mean anything from zero to zero. Well, you think about people. 00:29:17 Speaker 4: This annoys me, But it annoys me so much because people are like, you don't they're not going to remember? Well they're not, but it gets stored in your cells, right, Like we know memory is stored in the body. I say, I hope they don't remember, but it shapes who they are instead, which is actually more problematic because I might not have a memory of what happened to me at three, but I know when so and so goes to touch my leg I flinched. 00:29:44 Speaker 5: Yeah, because then you can't tell yourself,

Yeah, because you can't just be like, oh, if you do, behave asuain where you can't just be like, oh, that's because of that that happened. But if you don't know what happened, you're just confused. 00:29:57 Speaker 2: I don't and I don't remember a lot of things because I black it out, like I black trauma out. Yeah, because I would prefer to focus on the positive. Yes, I remember the other day I said to Mom, I said, Mom, why did you just like allow me to not get up and go to school? And she goes, don't you remember that time I tried to drop you to school and you tried to jump out. 00:30:17 Speaker 1: Of the moving car And I was like, no, not at all. 00:30:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I would black something out like that traumatic is that? 00:30:27 Speaker 4: But isn't that like so interesting that then your story around that, yeah, is so different to your mum. So again, like subjective reality. 00:30:35 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, so crazy, But then like, how do we understand one another? Because I don't know if it will ever really happen. 00:30:44 Speaker 5: Your relationship must be pretty banging there because like you you like you would like I would. I don't know if I would love to date or not to date like a therapace, because like you would know all the ins and I was like, how my brain's and what's going on in my head? 00:31:01 Speaker 3: You know all that shit, So I don't think i'd want to do it. But then on the other side, I'm. 00:31:05 Speaker 5: Like, well, if shit is mess, your relationship should fix it. 00:31:09 Speaker 2: To be honest, I would love to date a man who's like in psychology. Yeah, I want to understand, Yes, I want to work it out. 00:31:19 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:31:19 Speaker 1: I would say. 00:31:19 Speaker 4: My husband's very psychologically minded, like he's even before me of eight years, was a clinical psych so he definitely has a type. 00:31:28 Speaker 5: Yeah. 00:31:29 Speaker 2: But also he just likes to learn. 00:31:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's very curious patient. 00:31:34 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, I'm really curious. But like I've just given up. 00:31:39 Speaker 5: I've given up as well. I've given up with relationships, I've given up with dating. 00:31:43 Speaker 3: I'm sick of it. I'm going sober and celibate. 00:31:45 Speaker 1: I good chat. 00:31:48 Speaker 5: Unless unless unless not less not less there's a psychologist, if there's any psychologists out there, put me off. 00:32:00 Speaker 2: Like you really need to have a good bond with your psychologist. 00:32:04 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:32:05 Speaker 2: Like, I've been to two different couple's counselors and it was a completely different experience, and I did feel like one didn't side, but she saw where both of us were coming from, and then one of them really cided and I was like, I'm scared, and that traumatized me. I was like, I don't want to go. 00:32:25 Speaker 4: Back the relationship with your therapist. The research is wild around this. It makes up thirty

to forty percent whether it will be successful or not, more. 00:32:36 Speaker 1: Than what model I use. 00:32:37 Speaker 4: I could come in and do whatever I wanted in the room, and if you liked me, you would still get something out of it, which is crazy after how much training we do. 00:32:47 Speaker 1: I went to UNI for like twelve years. 00:32:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's just the energy and it's yeah. 00:32:52 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:32:53 Speaker 2: My biggest thing is I don't I don't like feeling judged. And as soon as I pick up on any little ounce of judgment on my na ye, because I don't, I don't judge. Yeah, you can tell me the most crazy stuff, and I'm like, well that's okay, that's all. 00:33:09 Speaker 5: Right, But you do need to be judged in some sense to have that constructive criticism, you. 00:33:15 Speaker 3: Know what I mean. 00:33:15 Speaker 2: Judge and constructive criticism is completely different. 00:33:18 Speaker 1: See, I don't think about it as me judging people. 00:33:21 Speaker 4: I would say I'm like probably the hardest person to shock or like, you know, I'm so non judgmental. But I think about it more in terms of holding people to a higher standard, like holding them to their higher self. 00:33:34 Speaker 1: Yes, you know you can do better than this guy. 00:33:37 Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeahause that pumps your tires up then too, and it makes you feel like, oh it's okay, I can actually leave. 00:33:43 Speaker 3: I don't have to put up with this stuff, like I feel good. 00:33:45 Speaker 4: And I think that also comes from, like you know, I do a lot of normalizing in my practice, Like of course you're responding in that way, Like think about where that's coming from, and like what actually happened there for you compared to what was going on for him, and vice versa. 00:34:00 Speaker 5: Of reality whatever subjective subjective reality. I'm a psychologist, you try to do the study I decided to know we're podcasts. 00:34:11 Speaker 2: I would but it is. It is very interesting learning about the human brain. But I don't think as much study as you do, you will never fully understand any human brain. You won't know, Isn't that I completely agree with that. I think that's so fun, it's so deep. We love it. I love the unanswered questions. But thank you so much for coming on. I really enjoyed having that chart. And hopefully other people out there have learned something and they can maybe come and see you. 00:34:51 Speaker 5: And do you have your socials and stuff where people if they did want to. 00:34:54 Speaker 4: Yeah, my website is Ritual Counseling dot com and my socials is many charting Underscore follow Hello'll. 00:35:02 Speaker 5: Be there next week. All right, that's a wrap for today. Thank you for listening. Make sure you do subscribe to the podcast. If you want to hear more, follow all the offer action over on our instagrams, Sky dot Weekly and Kyl dot V or Sky and Karlum Podcast. 00:35:18 Speaker 2: And if you want to ask us any questions chat to our producers. You can email us anytime Sky and Calm at Move our podcast dot com dot