บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Single Payer Radio | Reducing Gun Violence | Whitney Austin | 10-09-2025 Final

very comfortable with sharing 69 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:18.319 my story because it was more than seven years ago 70 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:23.800 and I've done it quite a bit, so practice is helpful. 71 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:29.279 But most importantly, the end of my story ends with 72 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:35.079 everything I ever wanted and gratitude, and so I call 73 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:37.720 that out right from the beginning because I do think 74 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:42.879 it is much easier for survivors to share their story 75 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:46.839 when it ends in that way versus the many people 76 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:49.959 I know involved in this work who are doing it 77 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:56.680 because of a loss. So my story started in back 78 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:01.240 in twenty eighteen. It was September six and I was 79 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:05.920 an employee a Fifth third Bank and had almost sixteen 80 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:09.759 years at the bank. I loved my job. It's headquartered 81 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:13.800 in Cincinnati, Ohio, and one of the projects I was 82 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:19.079 leading required me to be in Cincinnati. A lot, So 83 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:22.639 it's not abnormal for me to be there. It's the opposite. 84 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.720 Get in the car at seven o'clock and drive up 85 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:29.199 seventy one and be there in time to start the 86 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:32.839 day at nine. And so on that day, that was 87 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:37.519 the plan. There was nothing abnormal about it. I talked 88 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:41.759 to some of my colleagues, I listened to a podcast, 89 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:45.519 and as I descended into the city, I needed to 90 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:50.319 connect to a conference call with my legal and compliance partners. 91 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:55.279 I always share that detail because a call with them 92 00:06:55.759 --> 00:07:01.639 meant I was paying extra attention, and so I joined 93 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:07.360 the call. I parked in the parking garage and continued 94 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:11.000 the call as I walked out of the garage across 95 00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:17.439 Fifth Street and onto Fountain Square, where our corporate headquarters reside. 96 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:22.040 And I did actually think about one risk, and that 97 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:25.600 was getting hit by a car as I crossed Fifth 98 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.240 Street while I was multitasking. But that was really the 99 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:32.160 only risk I thought I needed to be concerned about. 100 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:34.959 And so as I got up to the revolving door 101 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:38.720 that I always used to go in, I noticed that 102 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:42.439 there was some shattered glass in the door, but it 103 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:47.240 was still intact, and just for a split second thought, 104

00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:49.720 that's weird. I wonder why it looks like that, but 105 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:53.600 never assumed that it was because of bullets or that 106 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:57.040 I was in great danger. And so I kept on 107 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:00.480 that conference call, and I pushed the revolving door like 108 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.759 I always did, to go inside. And then that's when 109 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:09.600 the first barrage of bullets hit me. And at first 110 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:12.680 I wasn't quite sure what was happening. I thought that, 111 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:16.439 you know, I knew that I had been injured, but 112 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:20.240 I felt a burning sensation all over my body, and 113 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:23.160 I couldn't figure out exactly what it was. I knew 114 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:26.920 that nobody was close enough to me to have punched 115 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:32.080 me or stabbed me. And then I leapt to well, 116 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:34.759 these must be bullets that are going through my body. 117 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:38.720 That must be why I feel the sensation. And then 118 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:43.039 the next leap my brain took was and this has 119 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.159 to be a mass shooting, because there was really no 120 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:51.360 other explanation for why I would be under fire in 121 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:57.720 my workplace. And so I then started to think about 122 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.600 my family. My little girl was five and my little 123 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:06.320 boy was seven, my husband, and how I just needed 124 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:08.279 to live. I had to get back home to them. 125 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:12.039 They would not be okay at this fragile age without 126 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:15.039 a mother. I needed to get home, and so I 127 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:19.559 started to think through my options for survival, and at 128 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.159 that moment I noticed that nobody was on the square, 129 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.879 which is something I probably would have noticed if I 130 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.919 wasn't multitasking. As I went to the building. I also 131 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:31.960 tried to get up, but my arms were too badly 132 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:35.480 damaged to push myself off the ground, so that wasn't 133 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:38.200 going to work. And then the last idea I had 134 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:42.759 was to find my phone that I had lost, you know, 135 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:46.440 during the first barrage, and call nine one one to 136 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:49.679 get someone there to rescue me. And when I went 137 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:52.399 to move my arm to try to get to my phone, 138 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:57.240 that's when the next barrage of bullets came. And I 139 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:01.600 consider myself someone consider myself to be a problem solver. 140 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:05.559 There's very little that I can't figure out. And I 141 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:09.799 remember thinking in that moment that I can't figure this out. 142 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:13.519 The only option I have left is to play dead 143 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:17.960 and to pray, and that's what I did, and on 144 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:23.879 a dime, the Cincinnati police arrived. And it's also helpful 145 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:27.200 to know that from the moment I took the first 146 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:33.200 bullet to the time Cincinnati police arrived was exactly one minute. 147 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:35.919 So I just told you a lot of things, but 148 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:39.639 they happened very very quickly, and so as soon as 149 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:42.840 they arrived. They had been trained to know what to 150 00:10:42.919 --> 00:10:46.679 do in this situation, and they did everything exactly right. 151 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:51.519 And it makes me emotional to think about how I 152 00:10:51.559 --> 00:10:55.600 got the very best of them that day. And we 153 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:59.480 know that in other situations of mass violence, particularly what 154 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:02.759 happened to 'vol Dad, those precious and innocent children got 155 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:07.279 the opposite of law enforcement. And so it's one of 156 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.360 the many blessings that I count that I got heroes 157 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:13.879 that day. And so they did what they had been 158 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:17.159 trained to do. They killed the shooter. They rescued me 159 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:20.759 from the revolving door. They brought me out onto the square. 160 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:25.600 I actually walked from the revolving door to the bench 161 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:28.080 where they placed me because all of the bullets had 162 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:32.039 hit me from the belly button up and I laid there. 163 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:35.559 Well they did first day to the best of their ability, 164 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:41.240 waiting for the ambulance and ems. They put tourniquits on me, 165 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.679 although I don't remember that, I just now know that 166 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:47.639 after the fact, and they did their best to just 167 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:52.480 try to make me as comfortable as possible until I 168 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:54.720 got on that ambulance and they took me away to 169 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:59.159 University Hospital and things started, you know, things started to 170 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:04.559 get fuzzy from that moment on and really fast forwarding 171 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:08.559 to what I remember is waking up in the hospital 172 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:13.159 and seeing my husband, who had driven like a bat 173 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.120 out of hell from Louisville to Cincinnati to be with me. 174

00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:20.320 My parents did as well, but I remember seeing my husband, 175 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:24.240 and I remember seeing all of the nurses and the 176 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:27.399 doctors who all looked like angels to me and said, 177 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:30.759 you're a miracle. You were shot twelve times, but none 178 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:35.399 of the bullets hit any major organs or arteries. And 179 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:39.080 that's all I needed to hear. That is all I 180 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.440 prayed for and all I had hoped for in that moment, 181 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:46.440 and to hear it, it was just the best news 182 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:51.440 I had ever received. And so it's more than just 183 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.320 that I was so stable that they didn't need to 184 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.879 operate on me until the next day, which I did 185 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:03.080 go on to have many surgeries for and blood transfusions. 186 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.720 But it really was the best of the worst situation, 187 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:14.120 and I'll never forget that. You know, there there are 188 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:16.559 no days that pass in my life that I don't 189 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:21.080 recognize that all of this is bonus time, and that 190 00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:24.960 is what in those early moments in the hospital room 191 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:29.639 led my husband Waller and I to say, well, we 192 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:31.919 can't just take this gift and move on. We have 193 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:36.080 to do something about gun violence. And so we decided 194 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:38.720 right then and there in the hospital room that we 195 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:40.559 were going to be on the side of trying to 196 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:44.159 prevent gun violence. We didn't know what we were going 197 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.480 to do because I was a banker and my husband 198 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:52.399 is an artist, but we were very firm in our values, 199 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:57.600 and our values then are still our values today, and 200 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:02.080 they are we seek common and ground. We're not here 201 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:05.519 for the politics of all of this. We're here for 202 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:09.440 progress because it didn't matter when I was in that 203 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:14.799 revolving door that I was a registered Republican, or that 204 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:19.720 we owned guns or the opposite of those things. All 205 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:22.759 that mattered is that I was facing a life or 206 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:25.600 death situation and I needed to get home to my babies, 207 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.200 and I want to make sure that we're on the 208 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.000 side of trying to prevent that all over the country. 209 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:35.080 Well, thank you very much for that

statement, and I'm 210 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:36.360 sure our listeners are. 211 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:39.320 Learning a lot. 212 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:41.360 Jane do you want to begin the conversation. 213 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:49.879 Yes, sir Whitney, that was a very vivid explanation of 214 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:54.279 what happened. I can't imagine being in that situation. Can 215 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.440 you tell us a little bit about what your organization does, 216 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:04.840 and then after that tell us the audience what we 217 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:07.799 can do to help your organization and what we can 218 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.720 do to try to prevent gun violence. 219 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:15.759 Yeah, thank you for asking. So our organization is called 220 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:20.200 Whitney Strong and our mission statement is finding common ground 221 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:25.919 to end gun violence through data driven responsible gun ownership solutions. 222 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.799 And as I mentioned already, that common ground part is 223 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:33.759 really important to us. We have a very diverse group 224 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:38.200 of supporters, and that's of course where people sit politically, 225 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:43.639 but also gun owners and non gun owners, and diversity 226 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:49.120 in terms of race, ethnicity, which plays into oftentimes what 227 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:53.720 form of gun violence hits you, but also diversity and 228 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:56.480 religion and values and all kinds of things. And so 229 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:01.159 I'm really proud that we've been able to build a 230 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:06.399 safe place for all humans. And so what we do. 231 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:11.000 We have two different organizations now, the Whitney Strong Organization 232 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.759 and then the Legislative Fund, And I'll start with the 233 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:19.559 former first. I remember In the early stages of all 234 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:25.080 of this, we had some visits from politicians and they 235 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:28.240 were very kind to provide us policy docs and help 236 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:33.840 us understand what policies could make a difference on this issue. 237 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.039 But I didn't come in ignorant of politics and knew 238 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.480 that whatever policy we would pursue was going to be 239 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:46.679 a long road ahead. And I remember this visual of me, 240 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:51.679 you know, sitting there with my hands and handcuffs and thinking, 241 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:58.639 if we only pursue policy change, it's like living in handcuffs, 242 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:02.600 and that's not enough for me. Because every single day 243 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.200 someone is dying in our state. In fact, every ten 244 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:11.759 hours someone dies of a gun related death. And if 245 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:17.039 our only solution is policy, this is going to keep going, 246 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:20.720 you know, for five to ten, maybe fifteen years. So 247 00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:24.400 what can we do on a daily basis that isn't 248 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:29.799 dictated by what politicians say or do, but can affect change. 249 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.160 And this is really what the public health approach is 250 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:37.319 all about. It's not about one single thing that ends 251 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:41.680 gun violence or any other public health issue. It's about 252 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:46.240 many things coming together. And so we started to explore 253 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:52.279 different evidence based trainings that exist, and we knew we 254 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.599 wanted to get at all sides of gun violence. You know, 255 00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:59.160 sixty four percent of gun deaths in Kentucky or suicide. 256 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:04.880 Looking to materially reduce that number, you're going to have 257 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:08.640 to have something that gets at suicide, and so we 258 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:13.559 landed on one suicide prevention course for adults. It's called 259 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:18.279 Question Persuade refer and it teaches people the warning signs 260 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:22.279 of suicide. It makes them practice through role playing, how 261 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:25.839 to have a conversation with someone who is suicidal, and 262 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:28.519 it makes sure that they are educated on their local 263 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:32.440 mental health resources, because unless you are a mental health professional, 264 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:35.279 you're going to need to tap out at some point 265 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.599 because you don't have that expertise. So that was one 266 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.599 of the first ones we brought out, and it's called QPR. 267 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:45.640 We also then got into Stop the Bleed, which you 268 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:49.240 may know about. It started started by the American College 269 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:54.279 of Surgeons soon after the Sandy Hook massacre because they 270 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.799 went back and looked at the incident and realized they 271 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:02.480 could have say more children if there were tourniquits in 272 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.240 the classroom. And it's actually a military training, which makes 273 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:09.480 a ton of sense, you know, being overseas and fighting 274 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:12.799 that you don't have a hospital at every moment to 275 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:17.759 solve for trauma. To me, it feels a bit damning 276 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.160 and depressing to think that we needed at Stateside, but 277

00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:26.480 we do. And so because it was one of the 278 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:29.559 tactics that was used to help save my life, and 279 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:33.880 because University Hospital in Cincinnati was so keen to get 280 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.279 it out there, I said, sure, let's do that one too, 281 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:40.240 So we offer stop the bleed. And then lastly, we 282 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:44.119 wanted to get at what true responsible gun ownership looks like. 283 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:48.720 So it's unfortunately just not a requirement anymore in our 284 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.079 state that if you get a concealed carry permit that 285 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:54.440 you have to go through any form of training. I 286 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:57.319 do no gun owners that go through training on their own, 287 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:01.000 and good for them, But it's too easy in twenty 288 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:04.079 twenty five Kentucky to just walk in with a gun 289 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:06.480 and walk out with a gun and not be required 290 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.720 to go through any sort of training. So what does 291 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:13.319 firearm safety look like? Both from a handling perspective and 292 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.279 from secure storage? Because we know that secure storage is 293 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:19.599 one of the most important things people can do to 294 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:25.240 prevent unintentional shootings and suicides, and so we came up 295 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:28.599 with our own firearm safety course called the Strong Rules 296 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:32.440 of Firearm Safety, and it's really more geared toward new 297 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:36.319 gun owners, first time gun owners that just you know, 298 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.480 haven't taken the steps to go through any course at 299 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:44.319 a range. And so those are the three trainings that 300 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:48.400 we offer. We actually are about to launch our fourth, 301 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:52.680 which is a suicide prevention course for youth. We know 302 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:58.000 that our firearm suicide rate with youth in Kentucky has 303 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:01.319 increased by more than fifty per sent in the last decade, 304 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:03.519 and so we've got to be on the side of 305 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.440 making sure that our youth are gaining access to sources 306 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:11.720 of strength and resiliency, and that is what the course 307 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.759 is all about. It's called Strength in Community and we're 308 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:18.279 really excited to be the first organization in the country 309 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.279 to be able to offer the community model of it. 310 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:26.400 Sources of Strength as a SAMSA endorsed Youth Suicide Prevention curriculum, 311

00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.920 and again we're offering the first community model version of it. 312 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:36.240 And so with our trainings, which all feed up under 313 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:41.359 the umbrella of our Save the Life program, we are 314 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:45.359 doing it in multiple places across Kentucky. Being a data 315 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.960 driven organization, we go where people need us most. So 316 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.000 the trainings in Louisville, Kentucky are offered in ten neighborhoods only, 317 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:57.240 and those are the neighborhoods with the highest number of shootings. 318 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:01.359 Most of them are in the West End, but not exclusively. Newberg, 319 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.319 for example, is one that is not there. Outside of Louisville, 320 00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:09.480 we have the training happening in different rural areas as well, 321 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.759 And I know rural is a continuum, right, So I'm 322 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:16.640 about to say rural, and who knows, doctor Shively, you 323 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:19.799 may say, Nope, that's not rural. But we are in 324 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:23.400 the Horseshoe below Jefferson County as well. So we are 325 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:28.799 in Bullet Shelby, Nelson, and Harden offering the trainings. And 326 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:33.240 the reason we're in those counties is because firearm suicide 327 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:38.759 rates are elevated in rural areas, and so the vision 328 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.480 is that Save a Life would grow to all the 329 00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:46.319 counties across Kentucky that meet us most And right now 330 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:49.799 we're sitting at more than thirty five hundred people trained, 331 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:55.039 more than fifty thousand gunlocks distributed, and also really good 332 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:58.759 outcomes in terms of increases in knowledge and comfort with 333 00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:03.039 the topic. We send all of our participant data to 334 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:08.519 the University of Cincinnati for analysis. So that's the five 335 00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:11.960 o' one C three Whitney Strong, and you can see 336 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:15.680 we are not handcuffed. We are doing trainings every week 337 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.160 and we are making a difference with behavior change. And 338 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.960 then the other side of the coin is the legislative fund, 339 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.000 and I'm happy to elaborate on that more depending upon 340 00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:28.160 what questions you have. But this is the more long 341 00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:32.400 term play, which is knowing that policy change is a 342 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:36.519 long road, but once it goes into effect, it will 343 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:40.440 change thousands and thousands of lives. You know, we had 344 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:44.119 eight hundred, almost eight hundred and fifty people die of 345 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.960 gun violence in twenty twenty three. A policy change is 346 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.000 something that will make a material dent in a number 347 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:54.160 like that. And so when it comes to the policies 348 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.599 that we champion and then work within our state capital 349 00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:04.039 in Frankfort, there are always policies that have bipartisan support. 350 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:07.839 So you won't see Whitney Strong getting involved in legislation 351 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:12.519 and Frankfort unless we truly have representation from both sides 352 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.519 of the aisle. And the reason we do that is one, 353 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.880 you know, that's the practical way of handling this. We're 354 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.000 not going to see change if only the Democratic Party 355 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:27.680 gets involved in Frankfort. And then secondly, because I come 356 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:30.160 from a place of believing that you know, there are 357 00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:34.200 different perspectives and the way that people see and use 358 00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:37.440 guns in the city is different than the way people 359 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.160 see and use guns in rural areas, and I think 360 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.240 that we need to hold space for both of those. 361 00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.759 And so the solutions that can gardner bipartisan support are 362 00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:50.640 probably the ones that are best for Kentucky. So headed 363 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:55.039 into twenty twenty six, we have a couple of policies 364 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.880 that we will focus on, and if that's where your 365 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:01.480 conversation wants to go next, I'm happy to talk more 366 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:02.240 about them. 367 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:06.839 Well, let me ask you then, specifically, what kind of 368 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:11.920 recommendations would you make if you had the opportunity to 369 00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:17.079 make the tell the legislature what they need to do 370 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:24.039 to reduce gun violence in Kentucky. Just outline the specific 371 00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:30.079 recommendations that you think should be made by the legislature 372 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.519 to reduce gun violence in Kentucky. 373 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:36.039 Are you comfortable with that question? 374 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.720 Sure? So, to clarify, this is my dream, not what's 375 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:41.759 rooted in reality. 376 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:45.039 I understand, I understand that, but that's what we want 377 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:47.880 to We want to talk about this and I want 378 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:52.039 our listeners to hear your

thoughts about what the legislature 379 00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.839 should be doing, because I think one of the major 380 00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:57.599 issues we have in this state is the fact that 381 00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:00.759 I don't know what's going on in the of the 382 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.599 legislators when it comes to guns in Kentucky. 383 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:10.240 Well, if we're playing you know, the Blue Sky game 384 00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:12.960 of I can come up with anything I want and 385 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:16.519 we can make it happen, then there are a couple 386 00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:20.839 of policies that I want, and one is a secure 387 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:27.559 storage bill. So unfortunately, we haven't researched gun violence prevention 388 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:30.559 solutions the way we should, and there's a reason for that. 389 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.920 We really only have about a decade's worth of research, 390 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:37.640 and that's because the Dickie Amendment was passed at the 391 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:42.039 federal level, which said he can't research gun violence because 392 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.880 when we do, it'll just lead to gun control, and 393 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.759 we can't have gun control. And interestingly, Dickie, who was 394 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:52.200 behind it, you know, before his death, he shared that 395 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:57.000 he was regretful for being behind that effort. Now we 396 00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:02.839 did see in twenty twenty one things change, and it 397 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.440 was really exciting. It was a bipartisan effort at the 398 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:09.240 federal level to fund research on gun violence again, and 399 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:12.039 it was at least twenty five million. It may have 400 00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.440 been more that was dedicated to research through the NIH 401 00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.640 and CDC, which was a really exciting time. And a 402 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:23.200 lot of those studies are starting to you know, the reports, 403 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.759 the report out on them, Those reports are starting to 404 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:30.799 come out. But because of that, we just don't know 405 00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:36.319 with conclusive evidence, for example, what policies would make a 406 00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:39.519 difference for more than just a few. But one of 407 00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:42.559 the one we do know has conclusive evidence that this 408 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:49.880 policy will reduce unintentional shootings and youth suicide is secure storage. 409 00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:52.359 And so the way these bills work, and of course 410 00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:56.200 you know some states have them and states like Kentucky don't, 411 00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:00.480 is that mostly they're written that if there are children 412 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.720 in the home and the firearm is not on your person, 413 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.480 then it needs to be secure. And secure means that 414 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:12.680 your unloaded firearm is locked in a separate location from 415 00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:17.240 your ammunition, which is also locked. And so because we 416 00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:20.359 have that conclusive evidence, and because I'm a mother who 417 00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.960 think who thinks of children first, I want that done. 418 00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:28.079 I don't think it's unreasonable and I think you know, again, 419 00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:31.240 if you're not using your firearm, if you're not carrying it, 420 00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:34.079 then the safe and responsible thing to do is to 421 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.119 make sure that it is secure in your home so 422 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:39.119 that we can protect our children. So that's one, but 423 00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:43.039 that is definitely a blue sky conversation because that is 424 00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:46.119 not a policy that's being discussed in Frankfort right now. 425 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.759 The second one is what we refer to as a 426 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:53.960 temporary transfer law, and we have been championing it for 427 00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:57.680 the last six years. It's called crisis aversion and writes 428 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:01.920 Retention ce a r R for short. And when you 429 00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:05.799 see temporary transfer, what we mean is that people are 430 00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:11.240 going specifically, gun owners are experiencing crisis moments all across 431 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.039 our state. Now, maybe that they're experiencing a crisis that 432 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:17.799 makes them want to kill themselves, or it may be 433 00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:21.279 that they're experiencing a crisis and they want to kill others. 434 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.000 But the data tells us, by the way, that if 435 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.400 you want to kill others, you also most often want 436 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:30.799 to kill yourself, So there's some overlap there. And unless 437 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:35.480 you're someone who is prohibited because of a felony or 438 00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:40.759 because of an involuntary commitment or domestic violence. You know, 439 00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:43.839 there are some prohibitions that exist at the federal level. 440 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:47.480 You can buy a gun, and you can have a gun, 441 00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:49.960 you can possess a gun. And so it is that 442 00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:55.160 combination of intent to harm self or others and easy 443 00:29:55.279 --> 00:30:00.480 access to firearms that leads to suicide and massi violence 444 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.079 and other forms of gun violence as well. That these 445 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:09.359 policies were created to mostly focus on preventing suicides and

446 00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:13.079 mass violence. And so what I would want is a 447 00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:17.400 temporary transfer law that would allow someone in crisis to 448 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:21.440 go through a civil process. So this is not criminal. 449 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:24.559 No one is charging you and taking you to prison. 450 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:28.480 We're here to get you help and to press pause 451 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.319 and to make sure that while you go through this crisis, 452 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:35.799 you do not have access to firearms. And what temporary 453 00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:39.759 transfer laws do is use our courts and law enforcement 454 00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:43.039 to remove firearms from the home when someone is in crisis. 455 00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:47.559 So I would really want both of those done, and 456 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:52.079 I think it would go after, you know, potentially separate things. 457 00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.440 There is some overlap with suicide, but secure storage would 458 00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:58.680 go a long way to keeping our kids safe, and 459 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:02.759 temporary transfer laws would go a long way to preventing 460 00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:06.559 crisis moments. Again, the majority of which would be suicide, 461 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:09.319 but also any mass violence that is brewing. 462 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:14.599 Let me ask you this question. There are a lot 463 00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:23.279 of people who feel that carrying a gun prevents violence, 464 00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:28.039 that if you get involved in a situation where somebody's shooting, 465 00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:30.200 if you're carrying a gun, you can stop it. 466 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:31.839 Or and there's. 467 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:36.240 Also a lot of people who feel that having polief 468 00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:41.599 officers in the schools with weapons that will prevent mass shootings. 469 00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:47.680 Do you have any what's your opinion about that, and 470 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:50.119 if there's any evidence, let us know. 471 00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:55.240 Now back to the we haven't studied things enough. Those 472 00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:59.759 are two areas that we haven't studied enough when it 473 00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:03.720 comes to, you know, being a good guy with the gun. 474 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:08.640 I do think that there really aren't a lot of 475 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:12.200 good faith actors out there trying to compile that data. 476 00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:19.000 There are people who are on the side of Second 477 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.960 Amendment or bust. I kind of say, like, I will 478 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:27.359 I will never be for any changes to firearm related 479 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:31.960 laws that are compiling data, but they aren't doing it 480 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.279 in a good faith way that leads people to believe 481 00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:39.559 the validity of their data. And then on the reverse side, 482 00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:45.279 which is often more of the anti gun crowd, there's 483 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:50.240 no incentive for them to track when firearms are used 484 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:54.440 successfully for defensive purposes. So I'll be honest and say 485 00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:57.640 that I don't really trust that data. I haven't seen 486 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:03.839 any good faith get behind trying to compile that. With 487 00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:09.119 the exception of my good friend Mark Bryant, who runs 488 00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:12.160 the Gun Violence Archive in Lexington, if you don't know 489 00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:16.079 about that resource, they're coming to the best of their 490 00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:19.680 ability through news articles, social media, et cetera, to try 491 00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:24.839 to document every incident of gun violence. And so I 492 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.440 do think he's out there working on that and doing 493 00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:30.079 it in a good faith way. But a lot of 494 00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:33.240 the other names that you hear, I wouldn't trust them. 495 00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:35.880 It would be a great, a great study, and I 496 00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:39.559 wish someone would commission it. I think when it comes 497 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:44.079 to people being good guys with a gun, absolutely there 498 00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.200 are good guys with guns. I'm alive because of good 499 00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:51.640 guys and gals with guns. But think about the training 500 00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:56.799 requirements that are put on law enforcement before they're allowed 501 00:33:56.839 --> 00:34:01.319 to carry, and then the ongoing training requirements as they 502 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:06.160 continue in the force. And so I could wave my 503 00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.800 wand doctor Flynn and get my third magical policy, it 504 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:15.559 would be that there are training requirements to be a 505 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:18.840 gun owner in the same way that you must go 506 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:23.119 through a test, and that's both a written test and 507 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:26.519 a driving test to be someone who drives an automobile 508 00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:29.639 in our state, that we would go through a similar 509 00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.800 set of parameters before you could be a gun owner 510 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:37.239 who is carrying a gun outside of your home. So 511 00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.559 that's a long way of saying I'm just not sure 512 00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:42.960 that the research is where it needs to be on 513 00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:48.519 whether defensive gun use is happening all that frequently. And 514 00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:51.159 I think in addition to doing the research, it would 515 00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:56.039 be

really, really beneficial if we could pass a law 516 00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:58.760 in Kentucky that would have some sort of licensing or 517 00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.119 training requirements for people before they walk outside of the 518 00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:06.159 home and they carry a firearm. Sorry, you brought up 519 00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:09.320 a second example that wasn't defensive gun use. What was it. 520 00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:18.519 Police officers in schools to try to prevent mass casualties 521 00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:23.800 and other violence in the schools, and should they carry guns. 522 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.199 Yeah, I was going to say, this is one that 523 00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.719 I've looked into some too. In the research is not 524 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:35.760 very robust. We can, of course, anecdotally think of instances 525 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.840 in which they did make a difference in instances in 526 00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:43.320 which they didn't, and so I'll use the we need 527 00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.199 to research it more to really. 528 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:48.039 Know well, you know, in my opinion, there's a lot 529 00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:53.920 of dancing around the real issue, which is access to guns. 530 00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.599 I don't think it needs a bunch of studies because 531 00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:03.159 all you have to do is look around the world 532 00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:09.000 to the European Union, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and 533 00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:09.800 New Zealand. 534 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:11.800 All of these. 535 00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:18.480 Countries have laws that limit access to guns. I lived 536 00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:22.719 in Switzerland for a period of time and almost every 537 00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:28.079 male in Switzerland is a member of the Swiss Army, 538 00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:32.880 which is a defensive organization. If you want to buy 539 00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:36.639 a gun in Switzerland, you have to go through all 540 00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:37.960 of the things that you've. 541 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:38.679 Just talked about. 542 00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:42.440 You have to have a background check, you have to 543 00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:46.559 have an interview, you have to have training, and you 544 00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:52.559 can buy a gun, whatever gun you wanted to buy. 545 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:55.880 If you want to buy another gun, you have to 546 00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.880 go through the whole process again. You can walk in 547 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:05.199 to a store in Texas and buy twelve AR fifteens, 548 00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:09.079 which is what a lot of people do, put them 549 00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:12.280 in a car, drive across the border and sell them 550 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:17.400 in Mexico to arm the cartels. So you know, I 551 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:21.679 agree with you about the importance of you know, having 552 00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.159 you know, doing the right thing, but I you know, 553 00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:29.840 as I'm not criticizing you, but I mean, the politicians 554 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:32.800 in this country are all and a lot of these 555 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:38.679 discussions about gun violence, in my opinion, dance around the 556 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:43.039 issue of access to guns in this country, which is 557 00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:48.639 absolutely insane. Second Amendment was written in seventeen ninety one 558 00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:53.719 when the firearm at the time was a single shot 559 00:37:55.079 --> 00:38:03.159 front loaded handgun, musket or cannon, the AR fifteen. If 560 00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:07.800 you can every if you can pull the trigger fast enough, 561 00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:10.519 a bullet comes out every time you pull the trigger, 562 00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:14.360 and an eighteen year old now can go into a 563 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.079 gun store in Kentucky and buy one of these things 564 00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:21.679 without any training at all. It's just I mean, I 565 00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.559 don't know whether that's all going to go. I think 566 00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:31.239 you're doing a great job, and I compliment you. I'm 567 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:34.440 just curious to know where your thoughts are because I 568 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:39.880 think the legislative issue. Until we can get some of 569 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:43.199 these thoughts into the heads of some of these politicians, 570 00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:48.039 I don't see this stuff going away. 571 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:49.719 Well, thoughts about that. 572 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.840 I think your organization is exactly what needs to be done. 573 00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:58.599 But I don't know how. I don't know how we 574 00:38:58.719 --> 00:38:59.719 get into their heads. 575 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:04.320 Well, you know, much of what you said I agree with, 576 00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:08.559 But the next thing I'll say is, Okay, so what 577 00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:13.199 do we do about it? And we've got to find 578 00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:17.280 a way to make progress and a lot of the 579 00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:21.599 things that you've suggested just can't happen right now. You know, 580 00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:27.320 they did polling after the horrific week that included the 581 00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:32.599 Charlie Kirk assassination and the school shooting, and the poll 582 00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:37.440 came back with a majority of Americans believe it's more 583 00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:43.920 important to prioritize preventing gun violence over prioritizing the Second Amendment. 584 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:47.519 And at first I thought, oh, I like that headline. 585 00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:51.760 Let me look into the data and see where the 586 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:55.639 breaks were by party, And then as I dug into

it, 587 00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:01.599 I found sadly that seventy five percent of Republicans believe 588 00:40:01.639 --> 00:40:06.039 the opposite, that we should prioritize the Second Amendment over 589 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:10.199 preventing gun violence. The reason it landed on the majority 590 00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:16.199 is because the Democrats believe in the opposite way, and 591 00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:20.119 so do independence And so back to the what do 592 00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:23.920 we do about it? We aren't all on the same page, 593 00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:28.599 and that's how government works. Now, that answer is very 594 00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:31.719 different than me asking a Republican do you support temporary 595 00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:35.039 transfer or do you support secure storage? Or do you 596 00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:39.239 prevent keeping guns away from mentally ill people? And you'll 597 00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:43.039 see different numbers on all of that. But the point 598 00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:46.320 I'm trying to make is we do this together. We 599 00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:49.480 don't do it at all in America. And so there 600 00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:53.199 are policies that garner bipartisan support, and those are the 601 00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:57.639 ones that our organization chooses to pursue. And then we 602 00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:01.360 also believe really strongly in that public health approach, which 603 00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:03.159 is why we're going to do those trainings and we're 604 00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:07.719 going to distribute thousands of gunlocks. And I know that's 605 00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:11.360 not as exciting as saying and we're going to pass 606 00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:15.880 twenty policies that we need to pass, but I truly 607 00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:19.679 believe that we will eventually. But we've got to open 608 00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:23.800 our ears. We've got to tell stories that open people's hearts, 609 00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:27.639 and we get them slowly but surely, closer to what 610 00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:31.519 we believe. And I know that's hard, because every ten 611 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:33.840 hours we lose someone and I don't know if that 612 00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:36.000 person is going to be someone I love or someone 613 00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.880 I don't know, but I don't know any other route 614 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:42.719 than trying to bring people together and make progress. 615 00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:47.239 Well, I thank you for your activity. We had two 616 00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:52.039 pediatric surgeons on to a program a year or so ago, 617 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:57.559 and something that I didn't know at the time as 618 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:02.119 the major cause of death of children in this country 619 00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:04.039 is gun violence. 620 00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:04.920 It's not. 621 00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:15.119 Measles or automobile accidents. Is

gun violence. And uh, you know, 622 00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:17.840 I don't know how you know. I'm too old and 623 00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:21.320 retired and not in it, but you know, at some 624 00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:27.320 point this information needs to get driven into the brains 625 00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:32.920 of the legislators in this country who have this, in 626 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:37.280 my opinion, ideological insanity about the Second Amendment. 627 00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:42.480 Well, I would encourage all of you when we have 628 00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:46.000 our Capital Day in January, which the date has not 629 00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:50.840 been set, but you can go to Whitneystrong dot org 630 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:55.400 and sign up to receive our email communications. You'll get 631 00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:58.039 that date, and I would encourage you to come because 632 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:02.239 what we do is we work to scale meetings with lawmakers, 633 00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:07.039 so you as a constituent, with your representative and your senator, 634 00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:10.880 and then of course we say these are our legislative 635 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.840 priorities and the talking points that we would like you 636 00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:17.639 to use. But it's also your opportunity to speak directly 637 00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:21.000 to your lawmaker and say, I am your constituent, and 638 00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:23.400 this is the leading cause of death for children and 639 00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:28.159 teens in our country. I'm a retired surgeon. Help me 640 00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:33.480 understand where you are in getting closer to what I believe. Now, 641 00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:35.079 those moments really matter. 642 00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:37.960 Have you done this yet or this is going to 643 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:39.239 be the first one. 644 00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:42.960 No, We do them every year, and so you know, 645 00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:46.840 we usually get between seventy five and one hundred people there. 646 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:51.920 That's not enough, right, We should have thousands of people there, 647 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:56.880 considering the frustration and outrage that people have on this issue. 648 00:43:57.559 --> 00:44:00.719 So I would encourage you to come these moments enter. 649 00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:04.239 Well, good, Let let me ask you this question for 650 00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:12.039 childhood violence. Should they should the parents of kids who 651 00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:17.880 go out and shoot people and kill people be hell 652 00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:20.840 loble and criminally liable. 653 00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:27.480 Oh boy, you're asking me a hard question, hard, hard question. 654 00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:33.639 Well, let me make a comment while you're thinking about it, Gene, 655 00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:38.039 I think they should, especially in a situation where like this. 656 00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.159 I can't remember this kid's name. He was he was 657 00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:45.960 he had all kinds of violent things going on in 658 00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:52.280 the school. His father took him important impart the gun. 659 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:53.039 Uh. 660 00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:56.519 Yes, I mean I think they're they're they're parents. 661 00:44:56.559 --> 00:45:00.280 Depending upon the specific set of circumstances, a thing, I 662 00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:04.440 think they do need to be held responsible for that 663 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:05.559 what a child does. 664 00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:11.519 Yeah, we've seen this, you know. The appearance of the 665 00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:17.679 school shooter in Oxford, Michigan felt criminally liable as well 666 00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:24.119 as either it's in consideration or has already has already 667 00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:28.480 finished the school shooter in Georgia at Appalachi High School. 668 00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:29.559 No. 669 00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:33.719 I think that it is right for state legislatures to 670 00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:40.199 put the rules in place, if you will, whereby through 671 00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:44.679 our judicial system, you can hold those people accountable. But 672 00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:48.760 I'm not comfortable with saying yes one percent of the 673 00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:52.679 time because I think the facts really matter. And in 674 00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:56.639 those two situations, for sure, and Oxford, I remember those details. 675 00:45:57.880 --> 00:46:02.239 It was an egregious life lack of responsibility in parenting 676 00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:05.960 that led to that situation. And so I am definitely 677 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:10.400 in support of when it is that that we have 678 00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:14.719 a judicial process that allows us to hold parance accountable. 679 00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:18.880 I do think, though, that there are other circumstances in 680 00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:23.519 which it is less so, in which case you wouldn't 681 00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:25.840 want to pursue that. So I don't think it should 682 00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:27.800 be all or nothing. I think it should be based 683 00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:29.559 upon the facts of the circumstance. 684 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:33.119 I agree with you, that's a very sensible answer. An 685 00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:35.159 entirely appropriated approach. 686 00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:38.559 Wouldn't that be up to the prosecutor and the grand 687 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:41.239 jury and then if it went on to trial, the 688 00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:44.519 juries to make that determination. 689 00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:50.119 I'm not an expert on it, but I definitely know 690 00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:53.719 that the way it works in many places is that 691 00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:57.960 they are given the opportunity to examine and determine if 692 00:46:58.000

--> 00:46:59.119 they want to pursue it. 693 00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:06.920 That another issue that I think needs to be addressed. 694 00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:16.079 And I'm not exactly sure all of the the specifical legislative. 695 00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:19.159 Construct, but. 696 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:26.679 My understanding in Kentucky, the legislator and its wisdom does 697 00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:33.480 not allow the urban areas to have their own gun legislation, 698 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:40.639 which which is because most of the gun violence, again 699 00:47:41.239 --> 00:47:45.400 in my opinion, happens in urban areas and Louisville, a 700 00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:49.239 lot of it's out in the west End. And you know, 701 00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:54.000 I feel strongly that that the Louisville and Lexington and 702 00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:58.079 Frankfurt and other urban areas should be able to put 703 00:47:58.119 --> 00:48:03.199 their own gun laws in place so that they can 704 00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:06.599 deal with the issues that are there, as opposed to 705 00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:12.119 someone living in Pikeville or some place like that doesn't 706 00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:16.119 deal with the same issues. Your thoughts about that. 707 00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:22.880 Well, first off, we consider suicide part of gun violence, 708 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:27.639 and the majority of gun deaths are suicide, and the 709 00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:33.000 majority of suicides are happening in rural versus urban areas. 710 00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:37.480 So that is just one correction to make, is that 711 00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:42.199 we see more gun deaths outside of urban areas than 712 00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:47.440 we do inside. Now, as to we're gun lalls should 713 00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:52.719 be set, it's pretty standard across our country that there's 714 00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:56.440 preemption and that the legislature the state makes the laws, 715 00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:59.920 not the cities. I think it's further complicated by the 716 00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:02.119 fact that there are state laws and then there are 717 00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:09.280 federal laws. I agree that there are totally different situations 718 00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:12.000 that need to be addressed in a city versus a 719 00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:15.480 rural area, but I'm not so sure I'm on board 720 00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.039 with having a patchwork of gun walls. In fact, my 721 00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:21.920 preference would be that we pass all these laws at 722 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.880 the federal level, so it doesn't matter. You could be 723 00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:28.679 in Hawaiian, Massachusetts, or Kentucky and the rules are the rules. 724 00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:35.480 There's no confusion, but that's mostly not the way government works, 725 00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:38.480 and state rights are important, and so we've landed on this. 726 00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:42.639

It would truly be complicated if we had different rules 727 00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:48.400 in Louisville versus Lexington, versus Paduca versus Bowling Green. And 728 00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:51.480 so I see the other side of the coin, which 729 00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:54.639 is there are different circumstances that need to be addressed. 730 00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:57.320 But I'm not so sure allowing there to be different 731 00:49:57.400 --> 00:49:59.280 rules in each city is the way to go. 732 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:04.280 I went there before I just before I retired, there 733 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:08.519 was a surgical grand rounds held by the Trauma service 734 00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:11.119 at at the University of Louisville. 735 00:50:11.159 --> 00:50:13.519 So this is this was about six years ago. 736 00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:17.519 I don't remember. It was Keith Miller and Matt Benz 737 00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:20.159 who who did it. And one of the things that 738 00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:24.440 I was I learned which I was not aware of, 739 00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:30.960 was the main gun violence issue in West Louisville or 740 00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:38.000 young males shooting each other, and the main issue of gun. 741 00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:40.960 Deaths in East. 742 00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:44.960 Louisville with middle aged men committing suicide. Kind of an 743 00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:50.079 interesting observation that I, you know, was completely surprised about. 744 00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:57.440 Mm hmm. Yeah. The common denominator there is men, men, 745 00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:02.079 are more often perpetrators in more and victims. 746 00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:07.719 So yep, let me ask you a question. Why do 747 00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:13.199 you think mass shootings are becoming more common? It seems 748 00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:18.440 like we're getting to see one almost every week. Do 749 00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:23.679 you think this is due to copycatting or people who 750 00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:29.679 are disturbed angry about something that they're complicating other gun violence? 751 00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:33.599 Is it due to mental illness? Or why are we 752 00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:36.679 increasing the mass shootings in America? 753 00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:40.920 Well, in the first six months of the year, we'd 754 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:44.440 actually seen a year over year decrease of about forty percent, 755 00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:48.239 so we were doing great. I mean, I can't say great, 756 00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:53.920 there were still some, but a forty percent decreases is welcomed. 757 00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:58.239 And then starting in June, I mean really, as we 758 00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:01.480 kicked off the summer, Like you said, it feels like 759 00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:03.400 every week there have been so many it's hard to 760 00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:07.360 keep track of them. What leads someone to be a 761 00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:11.760

mass shooter? Again, lack of research, But there is a 762 00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:15.519 great There are two reachers that run the Gun Violence Project. 763 00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:18.400 They wrote a wonderful book called How to Stop an 764 00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:23.199 Epidemic of Mass Violence, and more than anyone, they do 765 00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:25.599 a great job of breaking down all the factors that 766 00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:29.679 contribute to someone getting to the place of wanting to 767 00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:33.079 commit an active mass violence. And there are a lot 768 00:52:33.079 --> 00:52:37.639 of factors that contribute as to why we see more. 769 00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:42.800 You touched on contagion, and contagion is real, it is 770 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:50.280 absolutely real. And the more we see through our media, 771 00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:56.159 you know, validation of this, the more people are inspired 772 00:52:56.639 --> 00:53:01.599 to do it. They these researchers into that book, they 773 00:53:01.639 --> 00:53:05.719 talk about it as social proof. So social proof is 774 00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:10.000 not a new term. You know. Social proof is everybody 775 00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:16.039 in the grade has a Lululemon bag, so I must too. Well. 776 00:53:16.119 --> 00:53:20.800 Social proof is also when people go through crisis and 777 00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:23.719 they can't think of any other way out. What they 778 00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:26.960 do in America now is they kill people. That's what 779 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.960 they do. And so I am now more justified in 780 00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:34.840 doing this than ever before because the media is constantly 781 00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:39.280 covering it, and there are places in the Internet where 782 00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:41.960 I can find a community of people who are also 783 00:53:42.079 --> 00:53:46.320 thinking about mass violence, and we're all encouraging each other 784 00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:50.360 that this is the next right move for us. And 785 00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:54.119 of course this isn't an overnight thing. These people are 786 00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:57.360 being groomed over the course of their in many instances, 787 00:53:57.480 --> 00:54:01.760 young lives that this is what they're going to be and. 788 00:54:01.719 --> 00:54:04.960 So I hate excuse me when I hate to interrupt, 789 00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:06.480 but we're running low on time. 790 00:54:06.519 --> 00:54:08.480 We've got about three minutes left, so. 791 00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:12.239 All right, thank you, Paul. I was just about to 792 00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:13.239 ask that question. 793 00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:18.920 So social proof is real and your right contagion is 794 00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:20.079 playing in effect. 795 00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:23.960 Miss Austin, I want to thank you for coming on. 796 00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:27.719 I think this is going to be a very excellent 797 00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:32.159 program for our listeners. As that Paul said, we're getting 798 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:38.000 close to the end of the lollipop here. We'll let 799 00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:41.639 you have another minute or two to make whatever final 800 00:54:41.719 --> 00:54:43.920 comments or Mike and the then we're going to let 801 00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:44.880 Paul take us out. 802 00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:48.880 Well, thank you all very much for having me, and 803 00:54:48.920 --> 00:54:52.360 I hope that I opened some minds and some hearts 804 00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:56.719 to this conversation. If you want to participate with us, 805 00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:00.559 whether it's bringing save a life to your community or 806 00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:05.119 participating in our legislative efforts, you can go to Whitneystrong 807 00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:09.400 dot org. You can sign up to receive our email communications. 808 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:14.199 You can also sign up to volunteer, and then lastly, 809 00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:17.239 if you are on social media, then you can follow 810 00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:19.079 us at wit strong org. 811 00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:28.000 If I wanted to volunteer, what would what would that involve? 812 00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:33.960 Everything? From assembling kits. So we have our gun safety 813 00:55:34.039 --> 00:55:37.440 kids and we have our bleeding control kids to becoming 814 00:55:37.480 --> 00:55:41.719 a trainer. Physicians can be stop the bleed trainers, and 815 00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:46.760 we pay our trainers to train to being an advocate 816 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.760 who wants to come with us to Frankfort to speak 817 00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:54.880 to lawmakers or someone who works more in a grassroots 818 00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:57.880 way to try to get us audiences across the state 819 00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:01.360 where we can talk about the work we're doing in Frankfurt. 820 00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:05.239 We listen. Thank you again, Paul, you want to check 821 00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:05.679 us out? 822 00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:10.199 Uh yeah, that we are out of time, So thanks 823 00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:14.760 again Whitney for joining us, Thanks Mike and Jeane for 824 00:56:15.800 --> 00:56:18.400 hosting and finding this wonderful guest. 825 00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:22.400 And the special thanks to our listeners who without you, 826 00:56:22.599 --> 00:56:25.960 our programs would not be possible. This is Paul Hoppy 827 00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:29.880 with Kentucky's for Single Payer Healthcare and Forward Radio broadcasting 828 00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:33.119 on one O six point five FM. Wishing you a 829 00:56:33.159 --> 00:56:34.519 wonderful rest of your day.