บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Shift Stirrers - Gray Tham never stay small and back your self

00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:04.080 So literally the year I was born, nothing stopped her. 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:06.319 She learned how to ski when she was pregnant with me. 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.080 Um, and and yeah, she's just that kind of woman. 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:13.280 So and that business actually she started, it's still running today. 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:16.240 So I guess we have a bit of legacy creating in our family. 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:16.720 Yeah. 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:25.759 Well, I grew up in that back office of her business, and I used to help her vacuum the houses before she opened them for inspection. 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:27.839 Um, and that's really what I thought I was gonna do. 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:29.839 Like I thought I was gonna follow her footsteps. 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:34.399 And my mom was really involved in the community since our family had been there for so long. 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:37.839 You know, that we've been in that church forever, so she was really involved in the church. 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:43.439 She was the president of the Chamber of Commerce, she ran the gardening club and stayed into her 90s. 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.240 I mean, she she was really my inspiration. 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.199 And I'm even named after her, which is kind of funny. 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:51.600 They ran out of names, so they named me after my mom. 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:57.040 And um, and through her, I never saw age and I never saw limitation. 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:05.120 So, but one thing I did always know, which was different than my mom, and maybe she kind of instilled this in me, is I always wanted to move out of that small town. 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:09.360 So when I was 18, I um applied to be a rotary exchange student. 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:12.319 And I was selected to go to go to Sweden for a year. 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.279 And the day I left, I was really all nerves. 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:17.839 There was a lot of things behind it, but I didn't want to leave home. 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:19.519 And I will never forget. 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:25.439 I don't know, back then, like your parents could go with you to the gate, and she literally pushed me on that plane. 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:28.480 Like my memory is she got her and went like this. 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:30.399 You're getting on that plane. 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:31.920 And I think I cried. 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:33.600 I was 18, I'd probably cried. 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:38.720 But I really thought at the time, my parents really wanted to have finally have the house to themselves. 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.279 Like they've had kids in the house for 36 years. 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:42.319 It was time. 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:43.279 But you know what? 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:48.720 Now looking back, I realized she knew what I needed, and she knew she had to push me to be there. 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:52.319 Even though I instigated it, she had to make sure it happened. 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:58.720 That year, I think, is a very pivotal year for me because it really opened my out my eyes and my heart. 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:01.680 I think really my heart to to the world. 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:05.360 And um, like I said, it was just extremely life-changing. 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:07.199 That's four minutes, by the way. 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:09.120 Oh my goodness, that's four minutes. 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:10.240 Amazing. 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:20.879 And something I listened to a a bit of Gabor Mate on podcasts, and he says that no child, no child in the family has the same parents. 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:26.959 So I'm hearing you celebrating your different parents to the other siblings and how wonderful. 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:28.800 Yeah, it was really different. 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:31.199 I don't know, Michelle, do I have any time to finish on this one? 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:32.959 I think this was my longest one thing. 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:34.720 Yeah, we can go a bit longer. 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:35.279 Okay. 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:42.399 Um when I got to uni, like I like a lot of things can happen, and I'll just skip all that. 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:48.160 But I actually didn't quite know what I wanted, and I called my mom, and she says, Well, you're gonna have to work it out yourself. 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.879 And I was like, Oh my god, I'm gonna have to work it out myself. 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:52.240 Like that was really tough love. 00:06:52.399 --> 00:07:01.120 So I picked economics, international politics with a minor in German, and then business because I'm bad at decisions and I wanted to be well-rounded. 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:06.720 I don't know, but I really think I want thought I wanted to work in internationally and everything. 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:10.720 So, to be honest, to do that in the US, I had to go to go to grad school. 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:14.800 So we had to do a four-year degree plus grad school, and I was done with school. 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:23.920 So I kind of did everything that my business friends were doing, and I applied for all the big companies, and that's how I fell into working with Accenture and doing coding. 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:27.279 And when I look back, none of this was accidental. 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:30.560 So growing up in the small town taught me community. 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.079 Watching my mother build her business, that really taught me independence. 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:38.160 And being pushed onto that plane, that told me courage. 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:39.600 It was a lot of courage. 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:45.920 And walking into Anderson Consulting, now Accenture and being management consulting, that taught me something else. 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:47.120 It taught me a lot of hard work. 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:52.800 But it also told me if you back yourself and you do that

work, amazing things can unfold. 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:53.439 And you know what? 00:07:53.600 --> 00:08:00.319 I thought it was about building the corp, going up the corporate ladder, but really what it was building in me was a lot of resilience. 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:05.600 And that's what served me more in my life than any job title that I could ever have. 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:11.040 So I think through all of that, like I just always knew I never wanted to stay small. 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:15.360 Like that was always in the back, and that's what always pushes me to do more and more. 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:18.160 So I didn't want to can I leave a question to our audience? 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:18.639 Yes. 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:19.519 Okay. 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:27.199 So what would happen if us women trusted more that we didn't need like a map that told us where we're gonna go? 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:27.600 Yeah. 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:35.759 But they just trusted that if they all they need is that little courage and a bit of boldness to take the next step and everything else will unfold. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:36.399 Beautiful. 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:37.519 That's that's cool. 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.399 That's what your question came brought out of my mind. 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:40.639 Right. 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:42.559 Excellent. 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:43.600 That's excellent. 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:44.720 Don't stay small. 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:47.279 It's not never stay still small and back yourself. 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:49.919 Michelle, that's maybe uh the name of the podcast. 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:50.720 I don't know. 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:51.759 You might come up with other names. 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:54.240 I was like, You brought a lot of ideas. 00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:55.919 Anyway, I always have a lot of ideas. 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:57.840 Oh, yeah, we're gonna talk about meeting my husband. 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:00.559 All right, let me see where I can delete some stuff. 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:08.720 All right, um, the next question we've got for you is after college, working, you met your husband, you got married. 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:13.120 It's a huge decision to come to Australia, which which I believe takes courage. 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:15.200 You left everything to come here. 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:16.320 How was that? 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:17.279 Well, you know what? 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:22.960 Crazy enough, I met John after only working with Anderson Consulting for three weeks. 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:28.559 And and we were really long distance, and and we finally made a decision that he had to move to the U.S. 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:33.679 So when he did move, he actually got transferred to San Francisco, and I was working in Washington, D.C. 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:38.000 So if you know US geography, we only saw each other on weekends, right? 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:40.639 And then his second job was in Rio de Janeiro. 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:41.440 Yeah. 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:44.559 So we only saw each other every three weeks. 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:49.120 When we finally, I don't know how we finally decided to get married, but we did through all that. 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:51.679 And and it was my idea to move to Australia. 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:53.759 And I wanted, I think there was two reasons. 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:59.519 I wanted to see him more than just weekends or every three weeks, because that was our life in the US at being consultants. 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:05.519 Like we just that's how we it was like they always put us in a client site and we never could, it could be in another country. 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:08.639 So I and also I really wanted a break. 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:12.720 Like, you know, I was I give everything a hundred, a hundred, a thousand percent. 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:18.320 And I did that with my consulting, and I didn't I couldn't at the time see how not to live that way. 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.480 So I just wanted, I was only 29, but I was really tired. 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:25.679 So what we decided is we're gonna take four months off and travel. 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:30.320 And I think that's what I just saw that I didn't even think of what it meant to leave my family. 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:31.360 I was just really excited. 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:36.480 So we just we just sold up the house, we packed up everything, and um, we moved here. 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:46.559 And when I did move here, I decided really quickly I didn't want to hang out with the other expats because I didn't know how long I was gonna be here, but I knew in my heart that I needed to make it work. 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:50.159 And I saw so many expats like not doing that. 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:57.840 So I now have a phrase and I had a podcast that was another adventure, and I tell my kids all the time, bloom where you are planted. 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:01.600 And I was doing that at the time, and I didn't even understand it. 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:04.639 So I didn't pine over what I was missing in the US. 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:10.000 I did the best to thrive where I was, and um, I didn't actually go back to work. 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:12.720 I spent a lot of time with the retirees. 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:15.440 I joined a mother's uh, sorry, not a mother's group, I didn't have kids. 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:26.000 I drove a writer's group, I played tennis, I spent a lot of time on the porch with my 80-year-old neighbor just watching the world go by and listening to our crazy stories about her daughter and Nick Cave. 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.159 And I just found myself surrounded by these amazing women. 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:32.480 I guess we could call them wise women, right? 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:43.200 And I learned about those years of life and about reinvention, grief, resilience, and just the simple joy of

listening to people's stories, I guess. 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:46.559 And and I think that's when everything really shifted. 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:49.200 And I really thought I loved my corporate career. 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:57.679 But what Australia gave me was that space for my creative side, and it really made me, I really felt lighter and I felt more of myself. 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:09.919 And and I think that's when I realized it wasn't anymore about the job title, it was more about the impact you can have in life and that connection, which my mom always taught me, but I didn't know looking back and thinking about this. 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:16.639 Like that's really what she was all around about, and that's probably why she went into real estate helping people that way. 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:24.399 And um, yeah, I just love listening to people's stories, and I'm just really grateful Australia gave me that space to do that because I I don't think I would ever had that. 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:26.879 So the next question's been answered, Michelle. 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:28.960 I would really like to know what we can answer. 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:32.639 I would really like to actually talk a little bit more about the Alamane. 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:36.559 Yeah, actually, and I have I go specifically into that. 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:42.240 So Because I think that it's a really fascinating story about Australia, about Melbourne. 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:46.080 I was looking it up and and yeah, there's I'll have to find the book for you. 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:49.039 Yeah, I've oh it did have a name. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:50.320 I can't remember what the name of the book is. 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:51.759 The Alamana as they called it. 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:52.879 Yeah, yeah. 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:54.720 So are you happy to do that, Rosemary? 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:55.360 Yeah, yeah. 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:55.759 Yep. 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:57.679 Okay, all right, let's go. 00:12:57.919 --> 00:12:58.879 Okay, great. 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:04.559 So um I love that you suggest to our listeners bloom where you are planted. 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:06.960 And that's what you did in the Alamane project. 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.279 Can you tell us a little bit more about that? 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:12.559 And I also want to celebrate your skills in listening. 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:22.000 We don't listen these days, but actually what you were doing was listening and hearing stories and learning about people, and that's just such a wonderful skill to have. 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:23.600 Tell us a bit more. 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.360 Oh, thank you so much, Rosemary. 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:29.840 Okay, so during this time when I moved here, and I found I saw an ad. 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:33.279 It was probably in, to be honest, it was probably posted up in the library. 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:40.559 And it was a woman that was looking for help to

write these stories about people that lived in this area called Alamain, which is very close to where I live. 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:46.879 And they were basically um people that came back from World War II, returned servicemen, and they didn't have homes. 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:55.360 So they bought the government, I guess, the government council, I think that was probably the Australian government, uh, Victorian government, built these commission houses. 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.919 But they were they were houses, they were family homes for them to go into. 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:08.480 And and that's what they and what was happening is at this time, which was around 2002, 2003, those men that were coming back, they were passing. 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.240 So they didn't want to lose the stories. 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:16.159 And I have to tell you, it's so good we did that because most of those houses are gone now, and our big, huge homes are built instead. 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:23.039 So I signed up, they gave me three women, I bought a tape recorder and I took my book and I said, Yes. 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.320 Look, I was 30, I had no kids, and I was really green. 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:29.279 Like, I, you know, even at 30, like I didn't know any much about life. 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:33.120 Like over a lot of kapppas, I learned that a cuppa is more than a cup of tea. 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:43.039 I learned about families that had to live in parks in tents after the war, but to make it home, they put a fence around their tent, you know, so it looked like home. 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:44.639 I learned about outside toilets. 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.919 Like in the US, no one had an outside toilet unless you had like an outhouse. 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:48.559 I learned about that. 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:49.519 I learned about grit. 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:54.159 I learned about what it took to build a community out of nothing, the importance of community. 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.720 And also, one of the women was like the head of the the like parents' committee of the school. 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:00.639 So I really learned a lot about that. 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:05.279 Um I don't know, I just learned about raising kids, making the best of what you had. 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:12.159 Loss, you know, after that time, at that time, I thought it was just helping with a community project, but it really shaped me. 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:19.600 Like it shaped me so much about how my thoughts are, about maybe empathy I have with people, and then what I do. 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:25.759 And also, these were just like most of these women were just like they were so like, why do you want to like interview me? 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:31.840 So what I realized is everybody has a story to tell, and especially our older generation, and we can learn so much. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.679 Like, you know, people, I don't know. 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:36.399 I I love going to like retirement villages. 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.960 I mean, I just love it because I love hearing the stories. 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:42.799 So I transcribed all those hours of tapes and I wrote their stories. 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:47.840 And I guess 20 years later, I did it again with the 50 and Wiser Club, and I'm still doing it. 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.399 Like, and I didn't even really think about that. 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:55.120 That really probably spurred on what I'm doing now until this morning looking at these questions. 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:59.600 So yeah, it's just gosh, I thought it was just something to fill in time, and it just became so much bigger. 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.879 Yeah, I guess without me knowing it, it's kind of goes into what I do today. 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:04.399 It's thank you, Alamer. 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.039 It's it's a fascinating story, right? 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.440 I mean, just even like, oh, by the way, I have a lane down uh where I live. 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:19.360 I have a lane down the side of my house that was for what they called the night watchman, who was the guy who who took the the cans. 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:22.559 So they used to call they used to wear shikata hats. 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:31.360 And it was they take the can away from and so there's a little lane down every second house for those for those little yeah. 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:32.879 It's just so fascinating. 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:41.600 It's so fascinating that the houses built right before the war had like trim and and brick, but the houses after the war, they did we didn't have the money, so they they were just so simple. 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:53.279 But they and these poor families actually had to deal with a lot of like rising damp and stuff like that, but they had a house of their own, and then the ones that waited to sell it, wow, they did pretty well because like the property became so great. 00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:57.440 Yeah, no, it was just really it was a real honor to be part of those people's family stories. 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:00.399 Yeah, maybe uh maybe yeah, I can look it up. 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:02.559 I it's I think I think it is called the Alaminas. 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:04.240 I'm pretty sure it's called the Alaminas. 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:09.759 Also looked at the lady's name, so I'll actually put that great yeah, the ladies' name. 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:14.160 Maybe I should reach out to her again and let her know, like can I still do this work? 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:15.200 Yeah, okay. 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:15.759 All right. 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:20.880 Okay, so next we're gonna look at your transition into your photography. 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:30.240 So you you know, you'd given up your career, you started a family, but you wanted something more, which I understand I've been there, so I was the same. 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:32.319 And

you signed up for the photography course. 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:34.319 I I think you said RMIT, am I right? 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:35.119 Yep, that's right. 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:35.839 Yeah, that's right. 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.559 Um and how did you go? 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:45.039 How did you go from photography and not even knowing what aperture means to actually it becoming your life work? 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.240 Well, the funny thing having been somebody who's just learning about aperture. 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:53.519 Well, the funny thing is with me, there's always a story, and you know what feels like a very long time when you're going through it. 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.519 I was like, wow, it's such a small blip. 00:17:55.680 --> 00:18:01.279 But I guess at the time, actually, I was going back and forth a lot to the US because my kids were really little. 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:05.519 Um I have three kids now, but at the time I had it like a two and a half and a one-year-old. 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:11.920 And I finally made a decision that I'm not gonna do that and I'm gonna go on a trip with my family up in Queensland. 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.400 And during that trip, I got a call that my mom was dying. 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:16.240 So I was on the next flight back. 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:22.400 I took my one-year-old because I couldn't leave him behind, and I well, not and I left the other one behind with my husband. 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:29.759 And my mother didn't pass, she was 80, but I did spend three months with her there in the States, nursing her back to health. 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:34.319 And it was probably during that time, my kids both came, eventually were both with me. 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:38.960 And it was during that time that I had I had to get someone to help me because I had to go to rehab. 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:41.359 My mom had to learn to walk, talk, everything again. 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:42.160 Wow. 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:45.599 And I really had to be her advocate because she was 80. 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.480 You know, a lot of times people write people off when they're older. 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:50.079 So I really had to be your advocate. 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:58.240 And it was during that course, and I think because I realized I could juggle the family and still do something else, which I didn't think I could do actually. 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.519 I had always thought I'd give everything 100% and I can't juggle. 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:09.359 So that's when I decided, you know what, I'm gonna go take that course I've been thinking about because every time I took pictures with the of the, I wanted them to be better. 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:12.079 I always just want, I'm like, why can't I do it like other people do it? 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.880 Like, and they were just so they were pretty, they're pretty bad. 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.160 But I mean they're probably fine, but

they weren't just wanted bad. 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.759 So I came back after and I I did the course. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:26.400 And like you said, a friend of mine recommended that I met during the course, recommended that I started. 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:36.640 And in 2009, I put the kids in daycare twice a week, and and I started photographing families because that's what I knew at the time, that's what I felt comfortable with, that's the relationship I understood. 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:48.079 And I really the RMIT course was just a starter, like I threw myself into learning and I did workshops, I got mentors, I did classes, I tried a lot of things, I failed at a lot of things. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:49.839 I tried again at a lot of things. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.079 I'm always someone that wants to grow, and that hasn't changed, it's still happening. 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.480 Um, but that's how I really learned about it. 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:04.400 And I remember even being on a workshop because I used to shoot an aperture priority that someone said to me, if you're not shooting a manual, you're not a photographer. 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:08.799 So I actually set myself, I do a photo a day project every January. 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:13.039 And and that January, uh following that, I set myself that I would shoot a manual. 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:18.559 And that's actually how I finally learned to shoot a manual is just by every day making mistakes for a month. 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:19.519 So yeah. 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.880 So that's how it happened. 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:24.240 And then was there perfect balance between motherhood and ambition? 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:29.519 No, no, I still was on my computer while they were home doing things, and it's still a problem. 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:31.599 Like ask my kids, it's still a problem. 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:37.519 But what that gave me is something I hadn't felt in those few years, and it it gave me that creative oxygen. 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:43.039 And it also reminded me that I can pick up and try something new and build something new again. 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:47.519 I guess I've been doing it my whole life and didn't I keep forgetting, but I guess it can happen. 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:49.200 So did that answer your question? 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.680 It does, and you're within your time limit. 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:52.559 That's fantastic. 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:53.839 I told you I'd get better at that. 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.920 Okay, we're up to the next question. 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.480 Michelle, you're doing a great job with the timing. 00:20:58.799 --> 00:20:59.279 Great. 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:10.240 Your Alamane project and people's stories and then photography, and then you now are doing the wise women project, which has got a limited life as well. 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.559 But can you talk us through that project and how you empower women with that? 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:21.920 Yeah, so when I look back at um wise women, uh it kind of feels inevitable, but it didn't start that way. 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:28.160 So when I was 45, I actually saw someone who was turning 40 wanting to photograph 40 women for her birthday. 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:30.799 And that's I thought, oh, and I'm 50, I want a challenge. 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:31.920 That's what I'm gonna do. 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:36.960 And I really wanted to create a coffee table book sharing wisdom of women like 50 to 100. 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:43.599 But when I asked them to share their wisdom, um, they either said something that was really safe or they said, I have nothing to say. 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:46.160 And I thought that's not gonna be a very good coffee table book. 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:50.880 So everything really shifted when I started to ask them, When you were little, what did you want to be? 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:52.319 And tell me how you got there. 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:54.799 And it yes, I had to listen for a long time. 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:56.799 But that's where their wisdom came. 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:01.759 And when they heard that back, they said to me, Wow, did I say that? 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:04.160 Or they'd say, Wow, I have something to say. 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.400 I didn't, I didn't know I really had something to say. 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:08.480 I actually have something to say. 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:13.839 And that is what really inspired me to continue this work all the way through. 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.440 Because I really learned everybody has something really important to say. 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:26.559 And also the power is, as you ladies know, because you're doing it here with me, is when we stop and pause and reflect. 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:31.279 We spend so much time worrying where we're gonna go in the future, and that causes such anxiety. 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:46.960 If we just stopped and reflect on all the amazing things we've done, even though we don't think so, but when we really reflect, we have done quite amazing things, not necessarily places we've been, but the things we've been through and those seasons and what shaped us, like that's really where the power has to go. 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:56.559 So I think I just want to explain a little bit of when I photograph people, I think this might help explain to other people like how do you how do women see their strength? 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:01.359 Like, because I talk a lot, I want to show you what other people see in you because you can't see it in yourself. 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:08.559 And and that's so important, not only in their story, but in and um, but I want to I kind of have an analogy that I think explains this. 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:14.880 So when I photograph families and not so much anymore, but especially when I used to, everything would go pear-shaped, like it always does.

00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:17.200 Like you can't tell kids to sit still, they won't. 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:19.440 So I always want the parents just smile. 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:23.119 Please just smile, even when you're about to strangle them, just keep smiling. 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:28.960 Because what will happen is the kids will sh do something amazing and show you such tenderness. 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.039 You'll see it, but you'll forget it because all you're worried about is the naughty things they're doing. 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:37.119 And oh my god, this is so embarrassing because there's other people watching us, you know, and that's all. 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:42.000 So so many times when I go through the image reveal with the parents, they're like, Were we in the same place? 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:43.200 I said, Yeah, we were. 00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:46.079 But what I did was I captured the good moments. 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:56.160 So you can remember them later when you're about to strangle the kids, because they do happen, but so often we don't remember them and we're so fixated on those other things. 00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:03.119 So I think thinking back, that's what I do with women too, because I like to show them what I see. 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:14.079 And when I photograph them, I do see their strength, I see their courage, because it takes courage to show up to the studio, and I see the wisdom that they rarely acknowledge because I don't take time to look at it. 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:18.480 And when I want to have them, like my family's, had those portraits. 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:23.200 I want them to have these portraits, and that's why with wise women, I print them at least one image. 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:27.599 I print them all their images, but I make one, a magazine style, and they're in the magazine. 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:31.359 Because I want them to, when they self-doubt themselves, because we do it all the time. 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:35.279 I mean, I do it, I want them to see that portrait, see their story. 00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:37.759 Actually, that's why probably that's so important to me. 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:43.839 The stories, because I want them to remember that they really are a brave woman and say, wow, that's me. 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:48.160 Like that's I think that's really kind of sums up why I do what I do. 00:24:48.400 --> 00:25:00.799 And can I just celebrate that there's so many skills I can't pick them all out, but the skill set of not being happy with a safe answer, and then the skill set of asking the right question is just wonderful. 00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:04.480 Yeah, I think Well, we would have had a book with about 50 women saying the same thing. 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.200 But I think you should write a book about yourself. 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:10.000 No, Rosemary as an author has a right to say that. 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:11.200 So Oh, you do? 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:27.519 Okay, well, I looked at you online and uh the reason I actually said, Yeah, I'd like to do this when I saw your ad was because I was looking for a photographer, but I wanted a photographer who had values that I actually believed in as well, not just someone who was gonna take my photo. 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:35.119 And the session I had I found I not only felt truly beautiful, but I felt valued. 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:42.799 And I think that a lot of women in their later life go through an invisibility phase where they feel like they're invisible. 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.079 I mean, when I've when I felt invisible, I went and got my hair dyed blue. 00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.480 So all the tips at the end were blue. 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:50.640 And I and that helped me get through that. 00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.920 I'm now back to my normal, my normal, but yay. 00:25:54.319 --> 00:26:04.960 And I I think that you know, how do you I you know, what have the women that you've photographed taught you about them and and about stories? 00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:07.359 Because you've heard stories of women all your life. 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.079 So what what have what have they taught you? 00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:11.279 What have they taught me? 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:12.960 Oh, that wasn't my question that I answered. 00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:14.000 I must not read your question. 00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:16.799 But that's okay. 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.119 You just took my question. 00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:20.880 Oh, is that the next one? 00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:21.759 Oh, hang on. 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:22.559 Well, then what was this? 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:23.680 Don't worry about it. 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.920 Between the moment when someone walks in and the moment they see themselves differently. 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:30.000 So sorry, Rosemary apology. 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:32.799 I will leave that bit in because I like it. 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:33.839 No, I like that. 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:34.640 No, that's okay. 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.240 I think that's how these things work. 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:40.720 Look, for me, I'll just I'll kind of say quickly, space is really important. 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:42.079 Like where you come in. 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:51.599 And that's why when I stopped being on location studio photographer, I've had a studio at home and it was a very safe space, but as my kids grew, it wasn't the right space. 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.359 So I actually had my own studio. 00:26:53.599 --> 00:27:04.240 And then I had to move studios recently, and I will be again, but anyway, but on that hunt for a new studio, like I'd go to places and people like, and I just this a woman would not feel safe here. 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:08.400 Like it like I just had to have a place they'd feel safe, and so that's really important. 00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:16.720 And I think I think what I've learned that before the camera comes out,

um, I think it starts way before that, like before you even step in the studio. 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:22.240 And I think you made me realize actually, Michelle, I guess it really starts with me understanding who you are. 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.680 Because if your photographer doesn't understand who you are, how can they really capture you? 00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:27.599 So that's what's great about wise women. 00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:36.880 Like they're not surface level questions, like they're really, they're real questions I ask, and I and I really get to understand what makes you tick and and what you've been through. 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.519 So on the practical side, the coffee really helps make you feel comfortable, I think. 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:43.200 And also the hair and makeup. 00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:46.880 And and then it's not about hair and makeup, it's not about the latest do. 00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:48.559 It's just about getting you to relax. 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:54.079 And and that's why I pick the makeup artists I do and giving you that pause before you step in with me. 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.440 And and I guess when I'm photographing you, I'm really curious. 00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:01.680 So I just ask lots of questions and we talk and we become friends. 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:02.400 And we do. 00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:03.279 That's what Michelle. 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:09.519 Michelle and I said we're gonna we're gonna hang out, and I do, and I feel that way with so many of the people I photograph because like I like you. 00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:10.720 Like, I really like you. 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:17.279 And there is an application process for wise women, so I suppose I this I can say if I don't like someone that I don't have to photograph them. 00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:23.920 But I really am generously curious and love people's, and I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I know I think you've know that you're in good hands with me. 00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:26.160 That I'm not gonna just be like, this will be good enough. 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:29.440 Because yeah, sometimes like it's probably annoying because I go over and over again. 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:44.799 I think I think there's also just there's something during that shoot, like where your shoulders kind of drop and your smile becomes kind of real and you forget there's a camera, and that is to me, is when I can truly um uh have you be seen and everything. 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:50.400 Yeah, I think I I'll just I'll I'll finish this with a little story too, because I think it kind of shares like the words. 00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:52.000 We say a lot of words, but what does it mean? 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:59.599 But I I'm actually photographing someone this week, and she's had a lot of branding shots done, and she's coming for wise women, and and I don't know if she knows why. 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:04.160 I do think she knows why, but she wants to be seen and she she

just wants something a little bit different. 00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:08.640 But she asked me to look at her images that she's already had in her catalog and what she's missing. 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:10.960 And look, the images were great, like they were really great. 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:13.759 They showed what she does, they showed they're beautiful. 00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:15.119 Like there was nothing wrong with them. 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:17.279 Like the photographer did a fabulous job. 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.839 But after I wrote her story, I realized that it was something was really missing. 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:25.839 They don't really show her depth and her evolution and her why. 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.519 I feel that responsibility. 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:34.880 I feel that deep responsibility, not just photographing someone's title, not just their role, but who is underneath it. 00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.559 So, yeah, so I hope that when she comes in, I can do that for her. 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.400 And when she says that version, like that will really shift for her too. 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:43.839 And she'll stand a little bit taller. 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:47.839 This woman already stands tall, so uh, but maybe even in a little bit of a different way. 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:49.599 And yeah, that's what really matters. 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:51.920 So I guess I set high expectations. 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:54.400 But um, we seem to get there somehow in the end. 00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:56.400 But yeah, great story. 00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.759 Can I just say something when Grey photographed me? 00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:09.519 Beforehand, when I was getting my makeup done, she asked me how I met my husband, and I went through my story, and I said about the first time I kissed Mark. 00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:16.160 And um, halfway through we're taking the shoot, and Gray goes, smile like it's the first time you've been kissed by your husband. 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:17.599 And I think I just beat. 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:25.839 And it was just it was just so lovely because I think that it was things like that, and you laughing too that helped me relax even more. 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:27.759 I mean, I was looking forward to the session. 00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:37.839 I was very what I call nerve-sighted, but it was it's an experience I've dragged myself into because I knew I had to do it, but I actually loved it. 00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:44.480 I'm so happy, and I tell you, I think I told you no one ever comes in like really like I am not nervous. 00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:47.440 I I don't think I'm yet to have someone come in like that. 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:50.880 And if they do, I'm a bit nervous myself, then I'm really nervous. 00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:54.000 So um, yeah, no, that's that's good. 00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:55.039 Because you know what? 00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.119 You guys are nervous before a shoot starts. 00:30:57.279

--> 00:31:01.039 I'm actually nervous too because I I put that expectation on myself. 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:06.559 So I actually have to let that go and just know that if we both do our jobs, it will come naturally. 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:07.920 Okay, Nark. 00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:08.319 Great. 00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:10.079 So um what a wonderful thing. 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:15.279 You're a small business and you also mentor the Go Girls Foundation. 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:20.240 Such a great contribution, and we want to hear more about that. 00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:30.960 What drew you to that work and how does mentoring women in such vulnerable situations connect to or inform the work you do, photographing women in transition? 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:42.480 I think that well, the Go Girls Foundation they kind of fell into my lap a little bit, and I fell into their lap, which because we we have a very good relationship and it we work really well together. 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:47.599 And when I was doing the 15 Wiser book, I really wanted to do the I have a charity aspect. 00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:55.599 And at that time it was COVID, and a girlfriend of mine said, Um I'm selling some tote bags for a charity that sports women at risk. 00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.880 And you know, as we do, we support our girlfriends, so they ask us. 00:31:59.039 --> 00:31:59.599 I said, Okay. 00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:07.839 And when I got that tote bag, when it was delivered, I opened it up and there was a photo of a woman that they had helped and her story. 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.000 And so at that point, I was actually developing how I was gonna do the 50 and wiser. 00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:13.920 I really believe in fate. 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:19.200 And I'm like, and I want a charity, and here's a charity that just sent me a photo of a woman with her story. 00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:26.319 So um I said to my friend, I said, Can you please put me in contact with the CEO of the I would really like to um raise money for them? 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:28.400 And she goes, Oh, they're very busy people, correct? 00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:34.559 Anyway, I caught up with them and they really loved what I was doing, and I really, I really loved them. 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:39.200 And what happened was we ended up raising$20,000 for them through that coffee table book. 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:44.640 And I think because I was doing it for them, it it really inspired me to keep going. 00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:48.079 And when I ever had to call someone and ask them something, or do you want to be part of this? 00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:50.000 And you kind of feel like, oh, I don't feel like that. 00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.720 I I felt I'm doing it for the Go Girls, so I can do it. 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:54.960 Yeah, and it was really amazing. 00:32:55.039 --> 00:33:01.039 And I photographed a lot of them and I got really involved, and they also had me do a lot of like photographing events

for them. 00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:07.920 So I got to meet a lot of the women that they helped, and I would go to their they have these graduations, the women that they support, and I'd be in tears. 00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:11.440 And I just anyway, so eventually I also became a mentor for them. 00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:20.799 Yeah, and that was really lovely, and now they're actually a part of the wise women project this time is going towards their charity also to support women. 00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:22.960 So um, yeah, it's just been really amazing. 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:27.359 And this is the thing in our Wise Women launch that Michelle went just a couple weeks ago. 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:32.640 Michelle and Michelle, there's two a lot of Michelle's that run the Go Girls, they were there also. 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:35.680 And they came to support me, actually, which was amazing. 00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:42.000 And I wanted to announce them and also thank them, and because they've been such a big part of my journey and they've been so supportive of me. 00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:46.880 And and and I just want to announce them, and I and that they said to me, great, and I asked them a question. 00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:49.359 I said, you know, one thing, we really need more mentors. 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.119 And I said, All right, I'll ask. 00:33:51.359 --> 00:34:02.000 And so during made it up, I um because it's really women at risk, and there's a huge stat that how many women are actually killed by their past partners, their current partners. 00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:07.759 It you and I don't want to say the stat because I'll get it wrong right now, but it is mind-boggling. 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:26.079 So the work that they do to support and empower women so they're they can get out of those kind of situations, and they also support women that might be lost or are socially isolated because maybe they came from another country and or they're just socially isolated because they're out in the country, or we can be socially isolated actually among millions of people. 00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:27.440 So they help a lot of women. 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:33.760 And and I just asked though, I said, if anybody here thinks they can be a mentor or might want to know more about the Go Girls. 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:42.159 And Michelle told me that she had like seven women, and we had 33 women, so seven women out of the 33 went up to her and said, I want to know more. 00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:42.559 Wow. 00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:47.440 And I thought that is the power of connection, bringing women together. 00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:55.119 And I guess it's kind of the power of what I do too, because like I just and I said to the women, talk to someone you never talk to because magic can happen. 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:56.159 And I truly believe that. 00:34:57.920 --> 00:34:58.559 But they're pretty amazing. 00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:01.679 Go check them out if you want to check out the work they do. 00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:03.119 I've said I'll be a mentor. 00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:04.559 Um, I've got to fill in my form. 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:06.239 I haven't filled in my form yet. 00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:10.239 And you know, and through that you'll meet the other mentors who are amazing women. 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:17.920 And um, and what I really love is they're a small organization doing big things, so you're not gonna be caught up in the red tape. 00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:18.719 Yeah. 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:19.920 Awesome. 00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:20.800 Well, thank you. 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:21.199 Thank you. 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:23.280 Rosemie, you look like you wanted to say something there. 00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:26.079 Uh no, I just said awesome, my favourite word. 00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:34.960 So this is 2026, is the last year that you're actually going to be photographing wise women, and you're actually calling for 40 women. 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.760 I don't know how far you've got in your count so far. 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:44.320 You know, what does this ending mean to you and what are you hoping to capture in this final cohort? 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:48.480 Yeah, there is well, I think you also was wondering what kind of why. 00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:53.280 There's a few reasons why this is my last, and it's really bittersweet for me because I just really love this work. 00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:54.960 But I'm not leaving this work. 00:35:55.119 --> 00:36:03.840 So, um, but after doing this for four, like four iterations, I kind of feel it's time, and I have another project in my parking lot of ideas. 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:09.760 And I know myself well enough to know that if I don't explore it, it will nag me for a long time. 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:12.079 And I I just can't afford that mentally. 00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:13.760 So I gotta kind of do it. 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:18.000 And also, there's some family ventures on the horizon, potentially. 00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:31.360 And I'm slowly learning and even more learning through answering your questions and reflecting that even though the unknown can trigger a bit of anxiety in me, because I like to plan, it can also bring out extraordinary experiences in life. 00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:35.840 So um, yeah, every time I step into that uncertainty, something meaningful really happens. 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:37.599 So I'm just gonna step into that. 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:42.400 But we have to, because of all that, that's a lot, we have to end the chapter in June. 00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:43.840 And we are looking for 40 women. 00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.679 I think I need like 26 more. 00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:51.039 Yay! And I'm closing application because I have to do it by June, I'm closing applications by the end of March. 00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:56.159 And yeah, because it takes time to photograph and every and I'll tell you at the end, there'll be heaps that

come in. 00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:57.360 And it's unfortunate. 00:36:57.519 --> 00:37:04.000 Sophie, um, we're only doing 40 because that's all we will have availability to be able to photograph and get in the magazine. 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.639 Now, this final group, they feel really important to me. 00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:10.559 But what I really want is I want women to come to this project. 00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:12.400 Like I'm not looking for a type of woman. 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:17.760 I never am because I guess I really am feel I really believe in what comes, comes for a reason. 00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:21.519 So I want women to come if they feel that need to have this pause. 00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:32.159 Women probably that have been holding a lot together, juggling a lot, women who don't think they have anything special to share, or women even that feel that they have something they want to share, that they finally want a platform to be able to share it. 00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:37.119 You know, we give so much to our family, our work, our communities. 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:40.079 Like, I really want women to give back something for themselves. 00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:45.199 So, and if they don't like doing that, because we all have a hard time doing that, like, don't we? 00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:48.239 Like, so like I did something for the Go Girls, right? 00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:54.239 I say to the women that want to be part of it, you will be doing something for the Go Girls because part of your contribution will go towards them. 00:37:54.400 --> 00:38:01.519 But also you're doing things for other women because you're sharing by sharing your story, you're sharing with them that they're not alone and what is possible. 00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:06.079 So you're not just doing it for yourself, but you'll have an amazing experience for yourself. 00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:20.639 So, yeah, I just want to end this chapter with 40 remarkable women who may not know that they're remarkable yet, share their stories, even if they think it's ordinary, because I like I told you guys, ordinary lives really have extraordinary wisdom. 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:23.119 And and they're not told enough, you know? 00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:26.639 So I don't I always say, you know, people like, oh, I have this famous friend. 00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:28.400 I I don't need famous friends. 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.079 I just I want I want to hear the real like the not that their stories aren't real. 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:35.599 And I'll listen, if there's a famous person who wants me to photograph, I'm right there for it. 00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:40.159 I think I'd I'd always really love to photograph like Michelle Obama or something like that. 00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:42.719 So um I'd do that, I'd be really nervous, but I'd do it. 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:43.519 I'll put it out there. 00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:44.559 You'll see what happens. 00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:54.400 Yeah, and I

I think the other thing is the end of this project, I hope ends in a beautiful celebration where everybody can meet each other and a little bit of magic can happen. 00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:55.440 That's what I'm really hoping for. 00:38:55.760 --> 00:39:05.360 It's gonna say what you need to think for your next thing is a metaphor mother's foot on your backside kicking you through the door. 00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:07.119 Yeah, that's really what I need, isn't it? 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:08.320 I think you're right. 00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:09.199 Great. 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:13.360 Well, I do wear her necklace, so maybe that's kind of wow what that is. 00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:18.719 And we will talk about how to get in contact with you, but just for that one, how would people contact you? 00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:21.840 Oh, so we actually maybe you could put on your um on the link. 00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:25.280 We have a page that talks all about the project. 00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:33.119 And there's actually so it tells you everything you want to know, and then you can always reach out to me if there's more questions, but there's actually an application form on that. 00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:39.599 So that application, and it's quite simple, it just kind of tells you what asks you what spoke to you about it, confirms that you're over 40. 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:44.880 And um, yeah, so and you understand that the project it is a paid for project. 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:47.440 And I like I said, part of that will go back to the Go Girls. 00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:52.000 And it goes, I have an amazing group of women that work with me and that I support. 00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:53.920 So it goes to paying them too. 00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:56.320 And me a little bit for doing what I do. 00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:57.760 But yeah, that's how you get a hold of me. 00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:00.800 And it, but if I always say to women, if there's any questions, just ask. 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:07.840 And by applying for the project doesn't um mean that you're like it doesn't mean that you have to do it. 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:11.199 It just means that I understand and I can call you and we can talk more about it. 00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:12.159 It's awesome. 00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:16.159 Well, we're on to our last question before the legacy one. 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.800 Are you right to go on with the one about STEM? 00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:20.239 Yes, I think I am. 00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:22.320 A hundred women in STEM. 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:29.519 And you are a STEM person yourself coming from being a coda and being in business. 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:33.840 Could you talk us through this project that's new to you? 00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:38.400 Yeah, well, actually, it's not really new, um, but I've been talking about it more. 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:40.639 So I want to photograph 100 women in STEM. 00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:44.639 And for those that don't know, it's science,

technology, engineering, math, and medicine. 00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:46.800 I might have got the two M's backwards. 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:51.599 Um, and it's been sitting in my notebook for since um 2021. 00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:55.840 So um, yeah, it's it's quietly been worked for five years. 00:40:56.320 --> 00:41:02.320 Over time, I started to notice um sometimes you need something in your brain for a couple of years, don't you? 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.840 So it's been in your notebook, it's been a project you've been thinking about. 00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:06.639 Okay. 00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.159 It really has been something, Rosemary, that I've been thinking about for a long time. 00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:14.239 Because I actually photograph a lot of women who are medicine. 00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:17.679 And what I realize is I'm really inspired by them. 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:21.920 Not only those women, but women, I photograph a lot of women that are in male-dominated fields. 00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:30.559 And I think what stuck with me is not necessarily just they're in like quite smart women, but their passion and their commitment to what they do. 00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:36.000 Because you have to be passionate, passionate and commitment, committed to do those fields. 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:38.719 So it really got me thinking about that. 00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:48.480 And I also often found that these women didn't want to just see themselves as capable, but they really wanted to see themselves as women, whatever they define that as in their space. 00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:50.400 So I just really got me thinking. 00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:55.679 And then over the last eight months, I can't tell you how many people, women in STEM, have just been coming my way. 00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:59.360 And I really need to start my list because I'll definitely forget. 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:00.159 So I don't know. 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:02.480 And I've learned I gotta start, I gotta pay attention. 00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:04.159 Like I really have to pay attention. 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:06.320 And I think right now is the time. 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:11.599 So, and like you said, Rosemary, I was a woman in STEM, but I I never realized it until about three weeks ago. 00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:14.559 Maybe, Michelle, something you said, I'm like, oh my God, you're right. 00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:16.400 Like, I was so, but you know what? 00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:21.840 This is something actually also that I'm quite passionate about, is that in high school I nearly failed maths. 00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:28.719 And if it wasn't for a tutor that really believed in me and who took the time to sit with me and help me, I probably would have given up. 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:32.159 And and I'm learning recently that there's this crazy statistics. 00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:38.800 And I, again, I don't know the statistics off my hand, but there's so many girls that quit math in high school. 00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:43.760 And it's not because they're not capable, it's actually because they don't believe they're capable. 00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:49.280 And it and a girlfriend just told me about her daughter doing that, and I it just made me really angry, actually. 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:56.800 And I realized, look, and I have a daughter that's actually, and she's quite a smart girl, decides that she wants to go into arts, into a creative field. 00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:01.039 So I really am supportive of whatever a girl wants to do. 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:05.920 But if it's because they don't think they're capable at something, there's something really wrong. 00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:09.679 And especially if they're at like an all-girls school, like there's something really wrong. 00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:10.800 Like, why are we doing that? 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:18.559 Like, and I just feel so fortunate that I had actually a male chemistry teacher who actually sat down and and and showed me that I was capable. 00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:23.599 So I really feel this STEM project is it's bigger than just a portrait project. 00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:30.559 And I don't know what it is yet, but I just really feel that it's gonna mean more to me and more to others than just a portrait project. 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:34.239 And and I really want to photograph the full spectrum of women in STEM. 00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:35.760 I want to start from our dreamers. 00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:39.920 So these girls that might be giving up but are dreaming they want to do something. 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:42.239 I want to photograph the women that are in the thick of it. 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:47.360 And then I want to photograph, I wanna find like our legacy, like our pioneers, sorry, our pioneers. 00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:49.280 And I want to, what was it like for you? 00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:51.840 Like, we think it's tough now, but what was it like for you? 00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:59.280 Like my sister was a civil engineer, and in the 70s, because remember, they're so much older than me, she was one of the first civil engineers. 00:43:59.360 --> 00:43:59.679 Like, she was. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:03.119 Only woman on a job site, let alone in university. 00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:04.639 So I want to know how that. 00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:09.360 So I kind of I really envision, I don't know it's gonna be a book yet, it's gonna be an exhibit. 00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:10.079 I don't know yet. 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:11.119 I envision those. 00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:14.880 So if it's exhibit, people coming in and just being totally inspired by these women. 00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:21.599 Not just other women, but our kids and men, like men, like learning, like and knowing, and I don't know what the story is. 00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:24.159 I think part of this question was, what what story do you want to tell? 00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:26.880 I don't know yet, and that stopped me so

many times. 00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:28.880 Yeah, like it was a why haven't you done it yet? 00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:30.480 Because I don't know what I want to say. 00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:37.840 Yeah, so what I've really learned is I just gotta start, and what I want to say, it might it's not what I want to say, it's really what these women want to say. 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:39.760 It's just gonna happen through me. 00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:45.119 And and it's gonna evolve and it will probably change, and it'll probably be different for every woman. 00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:47.280 And and I'm really comfortable with that now. 00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:48.400 I just gotta get started. 00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:48.800 Yeah. 00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:54.559 So women, as well in industry, in organizations, don't get heard. 00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:59.760 That they don't get heard as much as the male engineer sitting next to you in the boardroom. 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:00.400 That's right. 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:03.679 They don't get heard, and sometimes we're afraid to speak our voice. 00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:05.760 And and that's what I really want to. 00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:10.239 I want to have be that platform they can safe, a safe platform. 00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:10.800 Right. 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:16.079 And just like wise women, where you can be heard and you can say things, and it's your opinion. 00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:19.280 Just because it's not the norm's opinion doesn't mean it's wrong. 00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:20.880 So I was also thinking about this. 00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:22.960 So I just wrote this down too in this question. 00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:26.719 Is also this this project might be honoring my younger self. 00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:27.280 Yes. 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:29.599 Because that girl that nearly gave up. 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:33.360 And I want to make sure that girls and women and people just hear that message. 00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:37.039 That they are capable and just stay with things even when it gets tough. 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:38.960 If if that's really what's in your heart to do. 00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:39.519 Awesome. 00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:40.239 Love it. 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:43.920 So this project's gonna go well for you because I can hear the I'm so excited. 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:44.960 I just gotta get started. 00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:45.599 Yeah, yeah. 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:46.639 Yeah, yeah. 00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:48.639 Are you ready for your final question? 00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:50.239 All right, I I do, yes. 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:52.320 Before we I know you're gonna have to edit this out. 00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:54.480 I do want to talk about the tall poppy syndrome. 00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:55.119 Is that okay? 00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:55.519 Yeah. 00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:57.280 We don't have to edit it out, by the way. 00:45:57.519 --> 00:45:58.639 Oh, you don't have to edit that out. 00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:01.679 Well, I

really want to talk about it because I think Australians need to hear. 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:03.920 If it's a point, we won't edit it out. 00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:04.400 Okay. 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:04.800 All right. 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:05.119 Okay. 00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:06.079 That's away. 00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:11.440 So we usually ask our listeners at this stage a quirky question. 00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:17.519 And in the past, it's always been, if you could go back and give your younger self a superpower, what would it be? 00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.280 But I think a lot of what you're doing is legacy work. 00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:25.679 And I think it's really important for us to actually explore this. 00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:32.559 You know, when you look at the body of work you've done, the Alamane stories, the wise women, the STEM projects, you're building a legacy. 00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:38.639 And what do you hope that these photographs and stories do in the world long after you've taken them? 00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:42.800 Well, like I told you, this conversation has really given me time to pause and reflect. 00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:46.559 You've given me the gift that I hope I give a lot of all the women I work with. 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:48.000 So thank you guys so much. 00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:48.400 Thank you. 00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:49.519 I'm really grateful for that. 00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:50.400 Thank you. 00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:57.280 And what really, when I look at the body of work I'm creating, and when I looked at those questions, yeah, it's so much more than portraits. 00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:04.000 And I really hope one day that um people can look back at the stories and say, wow, that's what life was like in the 20s and the 30s. 00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:04.719 Isn't that crazy? 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:08.000 They're not even gonna say 2000, 20s and 30s, 2020s and 30s. 00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:10.719 And and that's what women were carrying at that time. 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:17.519 And that's how they navigated their work, motherhood, loss, reinvention, ambition, doubt. 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:31.440 Um and you know, history is so often written by leaders, and it's written about war and politics, and you know, I'm just interested in our everyday courage, and and that doesn't often make the headlines. 00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:36.960 Like I was so lucky that our Fifty and Wiser Club story made the headlines and was in the age. 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:44.480 Like they needed a feel-good piece because really bad stuff was happening, and I was so honored and they so excited they chose us, they chose women. 00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:45.840 Like, I just was so excited. 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:58.719 So, um, and I just want to do this for everybody, and I want women to know they are brave and they just not because they're doing something big and dramatic, just because they keep taking that daily step one before the other. 00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:08.000 And I really want women to know it's okay to celebrate themselves like you celebrate others because we I don't know, my mother, I made my mother have her 90th birthday party because she would never celebrate herself. 00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:11.840 And I wanted to tell her what I thought about her to her face, not at her funeral. 00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:18.800 So I really feel that everybody should celebrate themselves and let people tell them what they think about them because it's too late later. 00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:25.199 So, okay, and I would love for us in Australia to see beyond this tall poppy syndrome. 00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:29.280 Okay, I grew up with a mother who stood for what she wanted when I was with her. 00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:33.519 She didn't always do that, but she did, she had that courage at 45 and did that. 00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:37.599 She was bold, she was a trailblazer, and I didn't know anything different. 00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:39.920 Like, that's so that's like what she taught me. 00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:41.760 She really didn't teach me to stay small. 00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:46.079 So when I first heard this cutting down, like I had no idea what it was when people told me about it. 00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:47.039 I had had women all the time. 00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:48.000 Oh, women won't want to do that. 00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:49.280 You know the tall Bobby syndrome. 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:50.320 I'm like, what the heck is that? 00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:50.960 You know, what is that? 00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:51.920 And I was like, really? 00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:53.199 Is that really a thing? 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:56.719 Like, seriously, because to me it was like so I didn't understand it. 00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.599 And it really confused me because I'm very black and white. 00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:00.400 And I was like, really? 00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:02.400 Like, seriously, like that's so sad. 00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:05.360 So why would we not want other women to shine? 00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:13.760 So if my work can do anything, I hope it gives us permission to stand tall, permission to evolve, but we never stay the same. 00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:22.800 So, and to permission to do that and to be seen and heard without apology and feeling like we might someone might cut us down. 00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:30.960 So, yeah, I think you know, our life is rarely certain, our paths always change, forks kind of come where we never expect them. 00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:39.679 But over time, again and again, like what I see is when women trust themselves and keep moving forward, that's when the really meaningful things happen for them. 00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:48.079 And not just for them, but it I really believe in a ripple effect that if great things happen to us, it happens to our community, whatever that community may be. 00:49:48.400 --> 00:49:49.760 So I don't know. 00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:57.039 Maybe my legacy is to create

something that says, You are here, your story matters, your courage counted. 00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:00.000 I see you, we all see you, and we hear you. 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:12.960 And I don't know, long after I'm gone, I guess, maybe someone will read these and see all that, and they can say, Wow, I can relate to that, and they actually feel less alone because I really feel that's what our stories do. 00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:15.760 And they can feel seen and heard too. 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:16.800 So that's what I feel. 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:20.159 That's a big ask for my work, isn't it? 00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:21.840 No, I don't think it is. 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:24.320 I think that's you have the ability to do that. 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:26.800 I I I and yeah, it's beautiful. 00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:28.559 I can't I can't wait to get my book. 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:31.360 But I mean, not that I'm in a hurry, but I cannot wait. 00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:32.880 You wait till you see it, Rosemary. 00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:34.719 There's this bit in the middle that's just lovely. 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:37.519 Right now, and yours is the one that's first, it's like approved. 00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:39.760 So we have 30 more nine to get approved. 00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:40.880 It's great. 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:42.480 Great. 00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:44.480 I'd like to thank you so much. 00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:46.239 This has been wonderful. 00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:53.679 You yourself are an incredibly wise woman, and your transition journey yourself has just I'm hoping this will inspire a lot of people. 00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:54.800 Oh, thank you. 00:50:55.119 --> 00:50:55.760 Well, thank you. 00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:57.360 I really appreciate the platform. 00:50:57.599 --> 00:50:59.920 I know we went a little bit longer, but I really appreciate it. 00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:08.880 And I hope like I find that sometimes the small little details that you feel very insignificant in your life can actually be something that brings someone else's understanding of theirs. 00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:09.440 Thank you. 00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:16.480 Grey, thank you so much for thinking about the questions and really, you know, really thinking about them for us and our listeners. 00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:17.519 That was wonderful. 00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:21.039 And I've got a new yellow sticky to put up on my court board. 00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:23.599 Back yourself and never stay small. 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:24.239 Love it. 00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:24.719 Yeah. 00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:28.480 Okay, Michelle. 00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.599 That interview with Grey was amazing, wasn't it? 00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:33.360 Oh, I just loved it. 00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:39.039 She's such a I know she photographs wise women, but she herself is such a wise woman. 00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:43.039 Yeah, lots of um great wise things throughout that. 00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:44.559 Yeah. 00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:46.159 So what were your learnings? 00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:47.519 What were your key learnings? 00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:53.840 Look, I think what touched me was don't stay small, it's not worth it, and back yourself and never stay small. 00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:00.000 Because I think sometimes we think as artists we're gonna do this, and we go, nah, that's not something I could do. 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:05.599 And so I think it did really ring for me is don't stay small. 00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:08.320 And basically, yeah, back yourself, you can do it. 00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:09.840 Yeah, they're good ones. 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:11.119 They're really good ones. 00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:17.199 I actually liked it when she said ordinary lives have extraordinary wisdom. 00:52:17.360 --> 00:52:23.039 I d that touched me too because I think that sometimes people feel that they're not listened to. 00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:23.519 Yeah. 00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:34.480 And this actually shows you that people are listened to and that they they are worthwhile in what they've done, especially a lot of women who go through the invisible stage of life. 00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:36.800 But yeah, I I really love that. 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:38.880 And what's inspiring you at the rose? 00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:44.159 It's a moment. 00:52:44.639 --> 00:53:01.039 Well, I've just finished or got ready my latest book, which is about a little little girl who uh takes her mum out into nature and through her eyes takes her mum off the phone and shows her and asks her, What do you see? 00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:01.840 What do you hear? 00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:04.320 And so it's called Through Greta's Eyes. 00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:11.440 But what I'm doing is during a shift is this is an example of when you get the final copy. 00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:20.960 And I haven't quite finished this Greta book, but I thought I'll send it off and get my author copy and see what it looks like, and then I'll do a little bit of updating. 00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:25.119 But it's really close, and I'm so excited about it. 00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:27.360 Okay, I had a curious question. 00:53:27.519 --> 00:53:30.000 What did Greta end up as? 00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:32.239 Did she end up with a sardine in her hair? 00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:33.119 Oh yeah. 00:53:33.199 --> 00:53:34.000 Um no. 00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:38.639 She on the last page she has a sardine hair clip. 00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:43.119 Yes, and she's going to make a friend one, a hair clip. 00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:45.039 She's very good at making hair clips. 00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:45.519 Yes. 00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:46.719 Seriously love that. 00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:50.480 I told you I saw somebody with a fried egg one in their hair the other day. 00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:51.199 Great. 00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:53.039 Yeah, I thought it was very cool. 00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:53.679 Yes. 00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:55.360 I think Greta loves hair clips.

00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:56.639 Now, what are they doing? 00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:03.519 I am I'm actually going through a massive shift in my work. 00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:11.440 And I think that I have struggled with ceramics being functional. 00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:17.519 And I have hit a stage where I'm going, no, it doesn't have to be functional. 00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:21.679 So I'm actually making a lot more sculptural pieces in my work. 00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:28.480 But when I say sculptural, I'm not talking about forms of people, but just sculpture as a sculpture. 00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:29.920 So it's very exciting. 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:33.840 I can't show you anything yet because it's all in the cooking pot. 00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:36.960 But um, yeah, watch this space. 00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:37.679 Right. 00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:44.320 Well, I want to say to you, well done listening to what you need to do and make that shift. 00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:50.639 Well, I think it's actually I did a programme with Amy and from the Daring Artist called Make Exceptional Work. 00:54:50.880 --> 00:55:00.639 And it has made me actually sit and contemplate my work a lot more and a lot more time spending in the in that cooking pot. 00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:08.400 And I actually got to a stage where I thought, well, I'm doing this exhibition and I can't resolve this exhibition, I'm gonna throw this whole exhibition away. 00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:19.119 And then I'm sitting there releasing an idea that I I feel I can no longer deal with and and work with because I put so many constraints around it. 00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:24.320 And letting it go gave me the freedom to think of new ideas of how I can do what I want. 00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:30.079 And I'm excited and inspired I'm excited and inspired by where that's going. 00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:32.159 Yeah, as I said, watch this space. 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.639 Watch this space, can't wait. 00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:35.280 Yeah. 00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:36.639 Okay, Rosemary. 00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:49.360 We have some very exciting episodes in our book coming up, and um, as we get closer to the event, please watch Instagram to see them and to see what's coming up, and um we'll see you all in a couple of weeks' time. 00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:53.679 All right, is this the bit where we tell people we're not the um experts? 00:55:54.320 --> 00:55:55.440 Oh, we've already done that. 00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:56.559 We do that at the end. 00:55:56.800 --> 00:55:57.039 Okay. 00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:59.840 Yeah, we just add on a bit at the end, so yeah, it's okay. 00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:02.639 But I'm gonna leave this in because it's cute. 00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:05.679 Someone's in charge, that's what I like. 00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:06.960 Bye. 00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:12.480 Thank you so much for listening to Shift Stirrers Podcast. 00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:19.760 If you enjoyed this episode, please hit that follow button so you can get notified whenever we we release new content. 00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:27.280 We'd love to hear feel from you and feel free to reach out to us at theshift stirrers at gmail.com. 00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:32.400 Or you can find our individual email addresses and websites in the show notes below. 00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:33.920 We love questions. 00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:39.199 You can also connect to us on Instagram at ShiftStirrers. 00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:50.320 If you found value in today's conversation, we'd be incredible, incredibly grateful if you could leave us a review or a rating on your podcast platform. 00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:52.880 It really helps others to discover the show. 00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:57.760 And if you know someone who will benefit from this episode, please share with them. 00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:01.039 Until next time, keep stirring the shift. 00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:06.960 Just a quick disclaimer Michelle and Rosemary are not experts in any of these discussions today. 00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:12.400 We present this podcast in the interest of getting you curious to make changes. 00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:13.119 Thank you.