บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ ASMR: How Whispering Hijacks the Brain

ASMR-related videos were viewed more than 65 77 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:31.730 billion times. It's one of the most searched terms on YouTube. 78 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:35.829 Which is now crawling with ASMR artists. 79 00:04:36.589 --> 00:04:37.189 Whispering. 80 00:04:39.329 --> 00:04:46.350 Squishing slime. And tapping microphones with long fingernails. It's now 81 00:04:46.550 --> 00:04:50.199 so mainstream that companies are using it. Like here's an 82 00:04:50.300 --> 00:04:51.319 ad from KFC. 83 00:04:51.339 --> 00:05:01.689 Enjoy the gentle sound of deep frying chicken. Pretty relaxing, huh? 84 00:05:04.310 --> 00:05:07.839 Even the Texas Department of Health made a pandemic PSA 85 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:21.310 using ASMR. And behind all of this hype is a 86 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:27.800 very puzzling scientific question. How can listening to a rando 87 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:32.610 on YouTube whispering give someone like Mike all of these 88 00:05:32.930 --> 00:05:37.850 emotional and physical feelings, like goosebumps and tingling on his head? 89 00:05:38.529 --> 00:05:41.089 What exactly is happening? Like if I pull a piece 90 00:05:41.129 --> 00:05:43.649 of hair off, the piece of hair has been detached 91 00:05:44.100 --> 00:05:48.410 from my skin and I felt a prickle. That seems 92 00:05:48.449 --> 00:05:50.930 to be so logical to me. But just to be 93 00:05:50.990 --> 00:05:53.300 hearing an ASMR video and that's saying I know raindrop 94 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:56.680 sensations and now I'm content and I don't know. Like, 95 00:05:57.279 --> 00:05:58.759 what is happening? 96 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:02.079 And then on the flip side, there's people who can't 97 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:08.550 stand this stuff. Having someone go, this podcast is dedicated 98 00:06:08.569 --> 00:06:16.480 to you. Is less gentle raindrops and more acid rain. 99 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:21.079 So what's going on there? Today on the show, we 100 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.230 have some of the very first studies into this weird 101 00:06:24.259 --> 00:06:27.870 phenomenon and some clues as to what is actually happening 102 00:06:27.990 --> 00:06:30.910 in your body and your brain as you get these tingles. 103 00:06:31.769 --> 00:06:34.129 And by the way, you should stick around even if 104 00:06:34.170 --> 00:06:35.089 you've never felt this. 105 00:06:37.750 --> 00:06:43.709 Because we're going to give you lots of opportunities to try. 106 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:52.959 When it comes to ASMR, there's a lot of what 107 00:06:53.420 --> 00:07:00.649 is happening. But then there's science. Science versus ASMR is 108 00:07:00.689 --> 00:07:16.170 coming up just after the break. Welcome back. Today, we're 109 00:07:16.209 --> 00:07:20.079 diving into this thing called ASMR. And the first thing 110 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:22.779 you need to know about this phenomenon is that the 111 00:07:22.819 --> 00:07:26.439 name ASMR is meaningless. 112 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.480 So it stands for Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response. 113 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:33.689 Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response. 114 00:07:34.189 --> 00:07:37.009 That's Julia Puerro at the University of Essex in the 115 00:07:37.110 --> 00:07:41.149 UK chatting to our producer, Meryl Horne. And Julia says 116 00:07:41.370 --> 00:07:46.990 that even though this term, Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response, sounds fancy... 117 00:07:47.459 --> 00:07:49.879 It was actually just made up by someone who was 118 00:07:49.939 --> 00:07:52.439 one of the first people to talk about this tingly 119 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:53.560 feeling online. 120 00:07:53.990 --> 00:07:56.449 And I think her intention was to make it sound 121 00:07:56.490 --> 00:08:00.649 more scientific because people were calling it brain tingles or 122 00:08:00.709 --> 00:08:04.620 braingasms and things like that. So she wanted to kind 123 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:07.319 of legitimize it, I think, by, you know, giving it 124 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:11.430 a scientific sounding name. but it doesn't really have any 125 00:08:11.470 --> 00:08:12.629 basis in science. 126 00:08:13.329 --> 00:08:14.519 Because it doesn't make any sense. 127 00:08:14.620 --> 00:08:15.860 Because it doesn't make any sense. 128 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.420 Like, take meridian. In science, it means a lot of things. 129 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:24.379 The prime meridian is a longitudinal line that connects the 130 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.060 North and South Poles. It's also a thing in Chinese medicine. 131 00:08:28.899 --> 00:08:32.470 But the person who picked that word just wanted a 132 00:08:32.529 --> 00:08:37.970 word that was less sexual than braingasm. And meridian also means... 133 00:08:38.179 --> 00:08:44.679 prosperity and splendour. But just because the name ASMR is 134 00:08:44.740 --> 00:08:48.120 a bit silly, it doesn't mean that the feeling is. 135 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:52.519 In fact, Julia, who studies this phenomenon, has felt it 136 00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:53.860 ever since she was a kid. 137 00:08:54.340 --> 00:08:56.289 Somebody once described it, and I thought this was a 138 00:08:56.330 --> 00:08:59.429 really good description, as somebody opening like a can of 139 00:08:59.509 --> 00:09:04.409 Coke and like pouring it on your scalp, that kind 140 00:09:04.450 --> 00:09:05.970 of fizzy, tingling stuff. 141 00:09:09.169 --> 00:09:11.929 And when Julia was growing up, there was no hype 142 00:09:12.049 --> 00:09:16.730 around ASMR. No YouTube at all, in fact. And she 143 00:09:16.789 --> 00:09:20.000 actually had no idea what she was feeling. But every 144 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:23.860 now and then, out in the wild, she'd get those tingles. 145 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:27.980 A really distinct memory for me was when I was about, 146 00:09:28.100 --> 00:09:30.480 I don't know, about 17 or 18 or something like that. 147 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:32.759 But I basically, I signed up for a

credit card 148 00:09:32.820 --> 00:09:37.440 by accident in a bank because... Because the person there 149 00:09:37.539 --> 00:09:41.950 was so relaxing. She was very soft-spoken, so I ended 150 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:45.789 up just wanting to continue the conversation because I was 151 00:09:45.830 --> 00:09:48.809 so relaxed by her. So I basically signed up for 152 00:09:48.850 --> 00:09:49.929 this credit card, which I didn't. 153 00:09:49.789 --> 00:09:50.529 Need or want. 154 00:09:50.769 --> 00:09:52.570 It was like you were in a trance? 155 00:09:52.990 --> 00:09:53.789 Yeah, pretty much. 156 00:09:54.830 --> 00:09:57.500 Julia didn't know that this happened to anyone else, and 157 00:09:57.539 --> 00:10:01.320 she didn't really talk about it either. That was until 158 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.360 something happened, something that would make Julia want to study this. 159 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:09.559 So one day she was at a conference and that feeling, 160 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:14.509 it happened again. One of the speakers had this particular 161 00:10:14.929 --> 00:10:19.620 soft-spoken voice and it gave Julia the tingles. But this 162 00:10:19.659 --> 00:10:23.740 time she mentioned it to a colleague who said, oh yeah, 163 00:10:24.340 --> 00:10:26.179 I just heard a story about this on the radio, 164 00:10:26.379 --> 00:10:30.899 about people watching videos of someone folding towels and then 165 00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:32.990 having these lovely reactions. 166 00:10:33.610 --> 00:10:35.769 And I think I had that kind of light bulb 167 00:10:35.809 --> 00:10:41.549 moment of that, that is the thing. And so that 168 00:10:41.649 --> 00:10:44.669 night I went home, I traveled home. And I was 169 00:10:44.710 --> 00:10:45.450 searching for it. 170 00:10:45.470 --> 00:10:46.029 So I was just. 171 00:10:46.049 --> 00:10:48.850 Typing like tingling and stuff like that into Google and 172 00:10:48.929 --> 00:10:52.389 news articles. And then I found the term ASMR. And 173 00:10:52.429 --> 00:10:55.820 then what I did was I typed it into YouTube. 174 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:57.840 And then I spent about three or four hours watching 175 00:10:58.019 --> 00:11:00.320 ASMR videos on YouTube. And I was like, this is 176 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.919 the best thing ever. And then after that, I thought, oh, gosh, well, 177 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:08.200 if it's got a name, then presumably people are researching this. 178 00:11:09.110 --> 00:11:12.070 Julia was thinking that someone had to be studying this. 179 00:11:12.940 --> 00:11:17.659 So she goes searching the literature and finds basically nothing. 180 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.590 I thought that there would be research on it and 181 00:11:23.629 --> 00:11:26.970 there wasn't. So that's why I kind of did something 182 00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:29.409 because I felt like something needed to be done. 183 00:11:31.049 --> 00:11:34.690 So Julia did something. She decided to set up one 184 00:11:34.730 --> 00:11:38.789 of the first experiments out there into ASMR. And she 185 00:11:38.830 --> 00:11:40.850 wanted to look at what was happening in the body 186 00:11:40.970 --> 00:11:45.230 of someone who was experiencing these tingles. So she brought 187 00:11:45.250 --> 00:11:47.669 a bunch of people into the lab, both those who 188 00:11:47.730 --> 00:11:50.509 experience ASMR, and from here on in, we're going to 189 00:11:50.529 --> 00:11:54.309 call them the tinglers, and those who don't experience it. 190 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.740 So everybody was in a cubicle that had no windows, 191 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:02.259 and it just had a computer screen, the physiology equipment, 192 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:02.960 and things like that. 193 00:12:03.500 --> 00:12:06.679 And she showed them all some regular videos and some 194 00:12:06.899 --> 00:12:11.299 tingly videos. like this one of a woman folding towels. 195 00:12:12.019 --> 00:12:14.200 Today I'm going to show you different techniques of how 196 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:19.250 to fold washcloths, hand towels. 197 00:12:21.490 --> 00:12:24.129 Julia put some sensors on them to measure things like 198 00:12:24.169 --> 00:12:28.389 their heart rate. And then it was game time, which 199 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.740 meant leaving the person alone to watch the videos. 200 00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:34.870 It's mainly if you want the boring details waiting around. 201 00:12:34.889 --> 00:12:40.529 And it's very slow. So it took us a really 202 00:12:40.590 --> 00:12:42.789 long time to test all these people. 203 00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:47.440 Julia ran over 100 people through this ASMR assembly line. 204 00:12:48.419 --> 00:12:51.759 And here's what she saw. First off, when the tinglers 205 00:12:51.820 --> 00:12:55.539 watched their videos, their heart rates went down. And that 206 00:12:55.580 --> 00:12:57.039 was compared to the non-tinglers. 207 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:01.460 So we found an average decrease of 3.41 beats per minute. 208 00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:05.750 About three beats per minute. That's the same response that 209 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:10.450 we see from stuff like listening to relaxing music. Julia 210 00:13:10.470 --> 00:13:14.330 also put little sensors on people's fingertips, which measured something 211 00:13:14.409 --> 00:13:18.330 called skin conductance, which is a way that scientists can 212 00:13:18.370 --> 00:13:21.669 tell how excited you're getting. And it does this by 213 00:13:21.750 --> 00:13:22.789 measuring sweat. 214 00:13:23.330 --> 00:13:25.710 It's very subtle, so it can pick up kind of 215 00:13:25.750 --> 00:13:28.750 very small changes. So you don't need to be sort 216 00:13:28.769 --> 00:13:31.509 of dripping with sweat. In fact, that would probably be 217 00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:33.690 not very good because the senses might fall off in 218 00:13:33.730 --> 00:13:37.789 that case. But it is an indicator that something physiologically, 219

00:13:37.870 --> 00:13:39.309 emotionally is going on. 220 00:13:39.950 --> 00:13:45.289 Now, Julia thought that because ASMR is this uber relaxing sensation, 221 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:48.899 that their skin measurements would show that people were getting 222 00:13:49.019 --> 00:13:53.889 less excited. But that's not what happened. people actually got 223 00:13:53.909 --> 00:13:59.230 a little bit sweatier, which is odd because remember, she 224 00:13:59.269 --> 00:14:03.360 also found that their heart rates went down. And usually 225 00:14:03.500 --> 00:14:06.360 you don't think about those two things going together, like 226 00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:10.980 increased sweating and decreased heart rate. If you go for 227 00:14:11.019 --> 00:14:13.659 a run or you have to give a presentation at work, 228 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:17.940 in those cases, generally they're both going up. Your heart 229 00:14:17.980 --> 00:14:22.120 rate ramps up and you sweat more. But in Julia's study, 230 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.899 With ASMR, that'll seem jumbled. 231 00:14:26.379 --> 00:14:29.759 What we think might be happening is that tingling sensation 232 00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:33.980 itself is a bit activating, but overall ASMR is very relaxing. 233 00:14:34.610 --> 00:14:37.230 Now, this is just one study and Julia is testing 234 00:14:37.250 --> 00:14:41.909 this more. But if she's right, ASMR isn't just about 235 00:14:42.009 --> 00:14:48.169 feeling purely relaxed or euphoric. It's this complicated dance between 236 00:14:48.289 --> 00:14:54.250 different emotions that's changing over time. In 2018, Julia published 237 00:14:54.269 --> 00:14:57.279 the first study looking at what's happening in the bodies 238 00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:00.320 of tinglers. And in it, she wrote that for the 239 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:05.240 first time, they'd found physiological evidence for the ASMR experience. 240 00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:11.320 Soon after, another paper came out showing that tinglers' pupils 241 00:15:11.419 --> 00:15:15.740 dilate while they're getting this ASMR response. And that also 242 00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:18.440 seems to happen when you get the chills from listening 243 00:15:18.539 --> 00:15:28.059 to really great music. Okay, so as a recap, here's 244 00:15:28.100 --> 00:15:33.879 Julia's study as we interpreted it through ASMR. You know, 245 00:15:34.379 --> 00:15:37.070 with the heartbeat and the sweating and the tingles. 246 00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:42.389 Today I'm going to show you different techniques of how 247 00:15:42.409 --> 00:15:52.450 to fold washcloths, hand towels, and speak about towels too. 248 00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:57.240 I'm also going to show you the two ways of 249 00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:00.450 how to incorporate all three of them into and make 250 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:09.110 them look into sense. 251 00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:19.009 And while Julia was measuring sweat and heartbeats... Other pioneering 252 00:16:19.110 --> 00:16:24.909 ASMR researchers were focusing on a different organ altogether, the brain. 253 00:16:25.970 --> 00:16:29.169 And now we have our first ever picture of what 254 00:16:29.250 --> 00:16:32.830 is happening inside our head as we get the tingles. 255 00:16:33.909 --> 00:16:38.690 And it's... Oh, pure magic. Just pure magic. 256 00:16:39.269 --> 00:16:49.360 That is coming up just after the break. Hey, it's 257 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:51.590 Wendy from Science Versus, and I want to tell you 258 00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:55.129 about a podcast that I love, Science Friday. They cover 259 00:16:55.230 --> 00:16:58.029 all sorts of amazing things in the weird and wonderful 260 00:16:58.070 --> 00:17:02.049 world of science, from how concussions affect our brain to 261 00:17:02.070 --> 00:17:05.299 the inner secrets of a snake with a spider on 262 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:31.890 its tail. Welcome back. We just learned that when people 263 00:17:31.950 --> 00:17:36.150 experience ASMR, it looks like there's this anomalous mix of 264 00:17:36.309 --> 00:17:40.859 relaxation and excitement going through their body. But what is 265 00:17:40.900 --> 00:17:46.000 happening inside their brains? This is something that Bryson Lochte, 266 00:17:46.180 --> 00:17:50.119 who's now a psychiatry resident at UCLA, was jonesing to 267 00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:53.730 find out. Several years ago, back when he was still 268 00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:56.680 a student, He wanted to chuck some tinglers into an 269 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.880 MRI machine while they were all tingly to see what 270 00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.940 the devil was going on in there. And at first, 271 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.539 he was worried that people wouldn't be able to get 272 00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:08.980 the tingles while they were in an MRI. He chatted 273 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:09.839 about it with Meryl. 274 00:18:10.700 --> 00:18:13.180 You're in this tube, kind of like a big plastic 275 00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:18.160 tube with a really powerful magnet surrounding you. It's like 276 00:18:18.180 --> 00:18:21.029 a really noisy machine. It's kind of like the sound 277 00:18:21.089 --> 00:18:24.950 of being in a big dumpster and someone's like hitting 278 00:18:25.009 --> 00:18:26.970 it with like a chain or something, you know. 279 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.240 Like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. 280 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:32.140 Yeah, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. 281 00:18:32.180 --> 00:18:33.099 Yeah, it sounds like that. 282 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.000 Bryson just had to hope that this ASMR feeling was 283 00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:41.319 stronger than all that banging going on. So he and 284 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:45.349 his colleagues slid their first tingler into the tube and 285 00:18:45.369 --> 00:18:48.390 there was a screen where a video played. A video 286 00:18:48.670 --> 00:18:53.950 that was actually quite similar to the one in Julia's study. Literally, again, 287

00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:55.599 someone was folding a towel. 288 00:18:55.619 --> 00:18:59.880 Hi guys, I'm going to be folding some towels. 289 00:19:01.700 --> 00:19:05.640 What is it with these people and folding towels? They 290 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.799 watched other videos too, where ASM artists stare straight into 291 00:19:09.819 --> 00:19:13.319 the camera and sometimes it feels like they almost reach 292 00:19:13.420 --> 00:19:18.190 out to the listeners. And so the tinglers were listening 293 00:19:18.230 --> 00:19:21.619 to all these whispers through headphones and And meanwhile, they 294 00:19:21.700 --> 00:19:24.759 held a little device with some buttons on it. There 295 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:27.509 was one to press if they just felt relaxed and 296 00:19:27.569 --> 00:19:29.869 a different button to press if they felt the tingles. 297 00:19:30.849 --> 00:19:33.250 So the idea was that they would play the video 298 00:19:33.650 --> 00:19:35.670 and then the person in the machine would let the 299 00:19:35.710 --> 00:19:38.569 researchers know with the click of a button. Hey, I'm 300 00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:43.990 feeling relaxed. Or, ooh, I'm getting the tingles. Bryson would 301 00:19:44.029 --> 00:19:46.990 watch on a monitor as all of this happened. And 302 00:19:47.029 --> 00:19:49.950 he could see that people were pushing the tingles button. 303 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:54.099 Despite this weird setting, the tingles were coming through. 304 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.640 It was a big relief, to be honest. 305 00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:57.160 It worked. 306 00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:57.660 Yeah. 307 00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:59.430 I was very excited by it. 308 00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:02.829 This is Craig Richard, a professor of physiology over at 309 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.349 Shenandoah University. And he ultimately teamed up with Bryson. and 310 00:20:07.369 --> 00:20:11.690 remembered seeing all these brain scans capturing the elusive tingles. 311 00:20:12.700 --> 00:20:15.980 Seeing the data was just so exciting because it helped 312 00:20:16.180 --> 00:20:20.920 explain the potential mechanism behind ASMR. So yeah, I was 313 00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:21.500 super giddy. 314 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.119 What did you think was going on in the brain, 315 00:20:24.339 --> 00:20:25.619 you know, when people had tingles? 316 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.180 Oh, pure magic. Just pure magic. 317 00:20:33.430 --> 00:20:36.400 But through these brain scans... He could see that what 318 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:40.579 was happening wasn't just magic. Because even though this was 319 00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:44.759 a small study, just 10 tinglers, he could see that 320 00:20:44.779 --> 00:20:47.599 there were these very particular areas of the brain lighting 321 00:20:47.740 --> 00:20:52.200 up when people got that special sensation. And it helped 322 00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:56.920 explain what was going on here. Like the nucleus accumbens, 323 00:20:57.440 --> 00:20:59.640 which is a little nugget in the centre of your brain. 324 00:21:00.220 --> 00:21:02.200 And it's kind of like the happiness detector. 325 00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:02.299 Yeah. 326 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:03.859 It gets activated when. 327 00:21:04.180 --> 00:21:06.680 You're riding your bike and you're enjoying it. You're eating 328 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.980 your favorite food. Someone gives you $ 5. These are all 329 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:14.960 lovely little moments. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's likely 330 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.880 that your nucleus accumbens is going to light up during 331 00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:19.069 moments just like those. 332 00:21:19.789 --> 00:21:23.210 Another thing that caught Craig's eye was how ASMR seemed 333 00:21:23.230 --> 00:21:26.309 to activate a big slice of brain that's shaped like 334 00:21:26.349 --> 00:21:31.630 a rainbow. It's called the somatosensory cortex. And generally speaking, 335 00:21:31.730 --> 00:21:35.109 it lights up when someone touches you. Like, if someone 336 00:21:35.190 --> 00:21:38.829 strokes your cheek, there's a little chunk of your somatosensory 337 00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:44.839 cortex that's dedicated to cheek touching. And when watching these videos, 338 00:21:44.900 --> 00:21:47.220 that part of the brain lit up, as well as 339 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:52.119 some other areas, like the forehead part of your somatosensory cortex. 340 00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:56.519 And this was actually a bit weird, because no one 341 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.390 was touching the tinglers' cheeks or their foreheads. or any 342 00:22:00.509 --> 00:22:03.279 part of them at all. They're just watching a video. 343 00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:11.220 But to Craig, it made sense. Because in a lot 344 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:12.000 of the videos. 345 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:17.660 The artists in the videos were pretending to touch the viewer. 346 00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:21.279 It's simply that if hands are coming at you, whether 347 00:22:21.299 --> 00:22:23.440 it's on a video screen or it's in real life, 348 00:22:24.289 --> 00:22:28.529 your brain responds as if you're getting touched. People perceived 349 00:22:29.210 --> 00:22:33.349 fake touch as somewhat slightly as real touch. So the 350 00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:34.950 brain is somewhat easy to trick. 351 00:22:35.869 --> 00:22:39.069 For those of us who don't experience this ASMR thing, 352 00:22:39.690 --> 00:22:42.140 Craig says, think about it like when you watch a 353 00:22:42.170 --> 00:22:42.950 scary movie. 354 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:47.559 You might jump out of your seat. There's no threat 355 00:22:47.619 --> 00:22:50.339 to you when you're watching a horror movie, but you 356 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.319 feel scared and you might cover your eyes and you 357 00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:54.319 might jump out of your seat. 358 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.799 Another study came out last year using EEGs to look 359

00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:03.529 at people experiencing ASMR, and it also showed activation in 360 00:23:03.730 --> 00:23:08.490 that same area of the brain. So Craig says, feeling 361 00:23:08.650 --> 00:23:12.009 like we're being touched, that might be part of the 362 00:23:12.150 --> 00:23:15.579 tingly feeling. But there was another clue in the data 363 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:20.859 to help explain what was going on. These ASMRtists... They're 364 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:22.220 looking at you gently. 365 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:26.650 They're moving slowly. They're speaking in a caring way and 366 00:23:26.670 --> 00:23:29.170 they're looking at you in a caring way. And that 367 00:23:29.250 --> 00:23:32.670 all triggers your brain to respond like, oh, this is 368 00:23:32.710 --> 00:23:36.250 a caring person. I think I'll be relaxed. And you 369 00:23:36.269 --> 00:23:38.849 might even feel so relaxed that you fall asleep. 370 00:23:42.450 --> 00:23:46.119 Zooming out a little, Craig thinks that this ASMR feeling 371 00:23:46.410 --> 00:23:50.180 is tapping into a super important brain response that has 372 00:23:50.380 --> 00:23:54.690 nothing to do with towels and tapping. It kicks in 373 00:23:54.809 --> 00:23:57.809 when you're around someone you love and someone who cares 374 00:23:57.869 --> 00:24:02.309 for you. Researchers call it affiliative behavior, and it's associated 375 00:24:02.369 --> 00:24:06.819 with certain brain areas lighting up. Like these particular parts 376 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:09.140 of the brain seem to go berserk when you put 377 00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:11.900 parents in a brain scanner and show them pictures of 378 00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:16.400 their little squirts. And yeah, Craig saw those areas of 379 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.119 the brain lighting up as people were getting the tingles. 380 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:24.000 Two surveys of tinglets have found that personal attention is 381 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:28.470 one of the most common triggers to getting tingles. And 382 00:24:28.509 --> 00:24:31.670 Craig says that doesn't always mean that someone is staring 383 00:24:31.710 --> 00:24:36.000 at the camera and folding towels for you. 384 00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:39.619 So there are... a lot of ASMR videos that you 385 00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:43.220 don't see the person's face. All you're seeing them do 386 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:46.299 is they might be, you just see their hands doing something. 387 00:24:46.740 --> 00:24:49.279 They might be solving a Rubik's cube. They might be 388 00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:53.819 raking a little Zen garden very carefully. And so that 389 00:24:53.859 --> 00:24:57.859 doesn't appear like it's this positive personal interaction, except for 390 00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:01.839 your brain knows those hands are attached to a person. 391 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:05.619 And whoever this person is, is taking time out from 392 00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:09.769 their day to show you something that is

important to them. 393 00:25:10.450 --> 00:25:13.670 So it makes sense for our brains to feel like, wow, 394 00:25:13.730 --> 00:25:15.029 this person really cares for me. 395 00:25:16.109 --> 00:25:21.930 Or they're just making money off you. But no matter, 396 00:25:22.259 --> 00:25:25.079 that's probably not what you're thinking about in the moment 397 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:29.579 while you're watching these videos. Craig Records, there's just something 398 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:35.660 about watching someone very carefully make fun sounds just for you. 399 00:25:36.470 --> 00:25:42.109 that hijacks this affiliative brain network. But it's not like 400 00:25:42.130 --> 00:25:46.109 this explains everything here. Because I don't know about you, 401 00:25:46.509 --> 00:25:49.549 but I don't feel all tingly in real life when 402 00:25:49.589 --> 00:25:54.410 someone's taking care of me. Like it's nice, but these tingles? 403 00:25:56.230 --> 00:26:01.089 Still though. This story rang true for Mike, our velvet whisperer, 404 00:26:01.109 --> 00:26:02.789 who you heard from at the start of the show. 405 00:26:03.549 --> 00:26:07.089 Mike had that big question about tingles, wondering what's happening 406 00:26:07.130 --> 00:26:10.029 there and why do we get them? And so we 407 00:26:10.089 --> 00:26:12.210 told him about this idea that it could be our 408 00:26:12.299 --> 00:26:15.339 brains getting a bit tricked and we see these videos 409 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:18.160 and feel like someone is touching us and taking care 410 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:22.099 of us. And as we told him all this, he 411 00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:24.000 had a bit of a Ratatouille moment. 412 00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:26.200 That did just kind of unlock a memory. 413 00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:27.259 I remember. 414 00:26:27.730 --> 00:26:29.569 when I was like eight or nine, it was during 415 00:26:29.589 --> 00:26:31.859 the summertime when I wasn't in school. So my mom 416 00:26:32.059 --> 00:26:34.839 would have my grandmother watch me while she went off 417 00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:38.779 to work. And so when she would drive up, park 418 00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:42.500 the car, and I was asleep, she would wrap me 419 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:43.140 in a blanket. 420 00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:44.650 Was I eight years old? 421 00:26:44.670 --> 00:26:46.230 Maybe I was younger. I'm not sure. But anyway, she 422 00:26:46.250 --> 00:26:48.630 would wrap me in a blanket, pick me up, and 423 00:26:48.710 --> 00:26:52.609 carry me into my grandmother's house. And I remember feeling 424 00:26:52.750 --> 00:26:56.460 so I don't like comforted. There was something about this 425 00:26:56.740 --> 00:27:02.079 euphoric or like pleasant sensation of her doing that. And 426 00:27:02.140 --> 00:27:04.480 so once I caught on to it, I would fake 427 00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:06.759 sleep every time to make sure that she did it 428 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.519 when she was carrying me. hearing her feet like hit 429 00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:13.480 the cement, you know, because those are like sounds that 430 00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:14.160 are around me. 431 00:27:14.180 --> 00:27:14.720 The tapping. 432 00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:15.599 Right, exactly. 433 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:16.640 The tapping, exactly. 434 00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:16.980 Yeah. 435 00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:17.960 Wow. 436 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:20.700 So that was like your first ASMR experience, maybe. 437 00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:21.900 Yeah, that has to be it. 438 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:23.369 So, okay, wow. 439 00:27:23.380 --> 00:27:23.920 Okay, yeah. 440 00:27:24.609 --> 00:27:26.349 So mystery solved for me in a sense. 441 00:27:26.390 --> 00:27:27.009 Yeah, I love that. 442 00:27:27.109 --> 00:27:27.630 I love that. 443 00:27:27.650 --> 00:27:36.970 So here's where we're at. That tingly sensation, it is real. 444 00:27:37.410 --> 00:27:42.309 Scientists can see it in brain and body scans. But Scooby, 445 00:27:43.289 --> 00:27:47.279 there's one final mystery we need to solve. I asked 446 00:27:47.299 --> 00:27:51.740 Craig about it. Do you think that everyone can experience it? 447 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.059 It does not appear. Well, I could be more confident 448 00:27:56.099 --> 00:27:56.400 than that. 449 00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:57.119 No. 450 00:27:58.619 --> 00:27:59.259 Right. 451 00:27:59.519 --> 00:27:59.940 There you go. 452 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:04.589 Nailed that question. No, I don't think everyone can experience 453 00:28:04.630 --> 00:28:08.240 it because we do hear so frequently that of people 454 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:12.079 that will watch ASMR videos, they've tried a bunch, and 455 00:28:12.099 --> 00:28:15.599 they don't experience it. And they really want to. 456 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:19.690 Surveys have tried to get at how many people feel this. 457 00:28:20.069 --> 00:28:23.549 The largest we could find wasn't an academic study, but 458 00:28:23.569 --> 00:28:27.529 it was done by a French online streaming service. 12,000 459 00:28:27.529 --> 00:28:32.769 people responded from six countries. And about a quarter said 460 00:28:32.910 --> 00:28:37.369 that they felt something like goosebumps or tingles. Another quarter 461 00:28:37.730 --> 00:28:42.559 felt calm and relaxed. Another quarter felt nothing. And then 462 00:28:42.579 --> 00:28:46.460 there was something we haven't talked about yet. There were 463 00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:51.940 those that hated it. Yeah, when listening to ASMR triggers, 464 00:28:52.420 --> 00:28:57.660 about one in five felt annoyed or irritated. Sorry if 465 00:28:57.700 --> 00:29:02.160 that's you. Also, I'm amazed you're still listening to this podcast. 466 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.309 It's so curious. Like, Why do the same or, for 467 00:29:06.329 --> 00:29:10.829 the most part, many similar stimuli? And some people are like, oh, 468 00:29:11.049 --> 00:29:14.230 cool me to sleep with your sweet mouth sounds. And 469

00:29:14.390 --> 00:29:16.849 other people want to rip your face off if you 470 00:29:16.869 --> 00:29:18.069 make those sweet mouth sounds. 471 00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.539 There's been a few studies that have tried to get 472 00:29:22.619 --> 00:29:27.059 at this question. Some look at personality differences between tinglers 473 00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:32.099 and non-tinglers. And they have found some differences. Like tinglers 474 00:29:32.299 --> 00:29:36.309 might be more open to experiences or more artistic on average. 475 00:29:37.210 --> 00:29:40.960 They also might be less likely to be conscientious. that 476 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.759 is not so concerned with deadlines or attention to detail 477 00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:49.019 so hermione is less likely to be a tingler than 478 00:29:49.099 --> 00:29:52.900 ron but even the nerds who do these studies say 479 00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:55.859 it's early days and not to read too much into 480 00:29:55.900 --> 00:30:01.220 this funnily enough the best explanation that we could find 481 00:30:01.859 --> 00:30:07.700 suggests that tinglers are just more generally sensitive to their environment. Like, 482 00:30:08.049 --> 00:30:11.730 they're more sensitive to bright lights or loud noises. So 483 00:30:11.789 --> 00:30:15.490 it's sort of a double-edged sword. In fact, research finds 484 00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:19.029 that tinglers are also more likely to experience the flip 485 00:30:19.049 --> 00:30:25.650 side of ASMR, called misophonia, hating sound. Like, perhaps they'll 486 00:30:25.750 --> 00:30:30.200 love hearing certain kinds of noises. like the gentle folding 487 00:30:30.220 --> 00:30:37.180 of a towel. But they'll hate other noises. And Craig, 488 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:39.660 who is a tingler, says that if you hit him 489 00:30:39.700 --> 00:30:43.460 with the wrong ASMR video, it'll drive him up the wall. 490 00:30:44.809 --> 00:30:49.769 It seems like there's a fine line between cringing and tingling. 491 00:30:50.849 --> 00:30:54.930 And we were curious where that line was. So we 492 00:30:54.970 --> 00:30:58.829 decided to try something that we know Some of you hate. 493 00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:13.279 Meryl brought out some crackers. All right, I'm going to start. Ew, 494 00:31:13.470 --> 00:31:14.480 I didn't like that one. 495 00:31:14.660 --> 00:31:16.519 Oh, yeah. Follow it up with a slurp and a gulp. 496 00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:18.920 Exactly. 497 00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:21.599 And I agree with Wendy. The worst moment there for me, 498 00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.140 it was the big lip smack at the end. That. 499 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:28.440 is where you turned me. You turned me right there. 500 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.700 So there's ASMR style eating, which is what you started doing. 501 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:35.099 Yeah, right. I felt like I didn't feel the tingles, 502 00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:38.059 but I was like, oh, that's actually quite nice. Like crunch, crunch, crunch. 503 00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:43.259 Yeah. But once you start smacking and chewing loudly, that 504 00:31:43.299 --> 00:31:46.859 turns into mukbang style. So mukbang are those videos where 505 00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:49.920 people have piles of food and they just sit there 506 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:51.619 and they eat the food from the video and they 507 00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:55.589 tend to chew with their mouth open making loud smacking noises. 508 00:31:56.329 --> 00:31:59.829 There are people who love that and may experience ASMR 509 00:32:00.130 --> 00:32:04.519 to those exaggerated mouth sounds. It's just like food. I 510 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.220 may not like this apple pie, but oh, I like 511 00:32:07.299 --> 00:32:09.240 this apple pie made by someone else. 512 00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:16.740 So scientists are just starting to unfold what's happening with 513 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:21.019 this tingly feeling. And it looks like if you're watching 514 00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:25.349 these videos, It might get you excited by tingling the 515 00:32:25.390 --> 00:32:27.569 part of your brain that makes you feel like you're 516 00:32:27.589 --> 00:32:31.289 being cared for. Or it might make you want to 517 00:32:31.450 --> 00:32:34.769 throw your laptop out the window. And we're not exactly 518 00:32:34.869 --> 00:32:38.609 sure why that is. In fact, there's lots of questions 519 00:32:38.690 --> 00:32:43.109 that we still have about ASMR. Like, researchers are wondering 520 00:32:43.289 --> 00:32:46.490 if it could help some people who have anxiety or depression. 521 00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:48.759 We don't have much science there. 522 00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:48.859 Also. 523 00:32:50.730 --> 00:32:54.089 Lots of tinklers say that they start to get desensitized 524 00:32:54.150 --> 00:32:57.569 to this after a while. It gets harder and harder 525 00:32:57.650 --> 00:33:02.900 to feel the magic. Why is that? We don't know. 526 00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:07.859 But if you are just starting out on your ASMR adventure, 527 00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:12.440 how do you find out if you're a tinkler or not? 528 00:33:13.099 --> 00:33:17.599 Go to YouTube, put in ASMR, and treat it like 529 00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:18.079 a buffet. 530 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.680 And this was me and Meryl. Before we started making 531 00:33:21.700 --> 00:33:25.480 this episode, we actually didn't know if we could experience ASMR. 532 00:33:26.180 --> 00:33:29.240 So we decided to hit the buffet. I gave it 533 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:33.009 a go, starting with the old classic. The first thing 534 00:33:33.170 --> 00:33:36.309 is relaxing towel folding tutorial. 535 00:33:36.809 --> 00:33:37.190 Hello. 536 00:33:38.529 --> 00:33:40.089 Welcome to another towel folding. 537 00:33:40.109 --> 00:33:42.049 Okay, no, this is too ridiculous. No, no, no, no, no. 538 00:33:42.269 --> 00:33:42.930 Okay, towel. 539 00:33:43.109 --> 00:33:43.450 I can't. 540 00:33:43.730 -->

00:33:44.690 Okay, next one. 541 00:33:44.730 --> 00:33:47.670 What I'll be doing in this video is a hand 542 00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:48.539 motion video. 543 00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:51.960 I don't like this one. 544 00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:53.380 Hello, my. 545 00:33:55.019 --> 00:33:55.880 Beautiful humans. 546 00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:59.700 No, no, no, no, no, no. 547 00:33:59.859 --> 00:34:00.849 No, no, no, no, no, no. 548 00:34:01.609 --> 00:34:03.569 But Meryl hit the jackpot. 549 00:34:04.369 --> 00:34:07.930 I think I just experienced ASMR for the first time. 550 00:34:07.950 --> 00:34:16.389 I'm looking at this video, and there's this woman who has. 551 00:34:17.409 --> 00:34:17.489 I. 552 00:34:17.489 --> 00:34:21.329 Think it's just cardboard. It's like she has long fingernails 553 00:34:21.409 --> 00:34:26.369 and she's tapping it on this little circle of cardboard. 554 00:34:27.329 --> 00:34:34.900 And it's like, I just got weirdly happy. Like, I'm smiling. 555 00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:36.980 I do feel some tingles. 556 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:40.619 I feel really good. 557 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:40.719 Okay. 558 00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:45.989 If that meant. 559 00:34:48.010 --> 00:34:52.070 There's someone tapping their nails on a phone or something 560 00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:58.159 and like sweeping their hands like. And I'm really sleepy now. 561 00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:05.170 I'm actually going to go to sleep. 562 00:35:17.889 --> 00:35:18.780 That's science versus. 563 00:35:24.349 --> 00:35:24.809 Hello. 564 00:35:25.230 --> 00:35:27.550 Hey, Meryl Horne, producer at Science Versus. 565 00:35:27.750 --> 00:35:28.309 Hi, Wendy. 566 00:35:28.590 --> 00:35:30.269 How many citations in this week's episode? 567 00:35:30.469 --> 00:35:31.730 There's 73 citations. 568 00:35:31.730 --> 00:35:32.409 73. 569 00:35:32.409 --> 00:35:35.650 Yep. And if people want to find these citations, where 570 00:35:35.670 --> 00:35:36.110 should they go? 571 00:35:36.130 --> 00:35:39.090 They can go to our show notes and then follow. 572 00:35:38.869 --> 00:35:40.150 The links to the transcript. 573 00:35:40.449 --> 00:35:42.800 And then you can also head to our Instagram where 574 00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:46.980 you can see Wendy's debut as an ASMR artist and 575 00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:51.300 an amazing little sand sculpture that our producer Michelle Dang made. 576 00:35:51.699 --> 00:35:56.650 Yeah, yeah. It's fun and embarrassing. The sand sculpture is fun. 577 00:35:56.809 --> 00:36:00.969 The ASMR is embarrassing. Yes, and if you have any 578 00:36:01.010 --> 00:36:03.449 questions for me, you can shoot me a tweet at 579 00:36:03.809 --> 00:36:06.800 Wendy Zook. Z-U-K. Yeah. Yeah. 580 00:36:07.059 --> 00:36:13.500 Can you say bye-bye? Bye-bye. 581 00:36:13.539 --> 00:36:13.840 Bye-bye. 582 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:14.000 Bye. 583 00:36:14.019 --> 00:36:14.099 Bye. 584 00:36:23.739 --> 00:36:26.340 This episode was produced by Meryl Horne, with help from 585 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:30.110 Courtney Gilbert, me, Wendy Zuckerman, Rose Rimler, Michelle Dang, and 586 00:36:30.130 --> 00:36:34.789 Akedi Foster-Keys. We're edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact-checking by Diane Kelly. 587 00:36:35.230 --> 00:36:38.389 Mix and sound design by Bumi Hidaka. Music written by 588 00:36:38.469 --> 00:36:42.840 So Wiley, Bumi Hidaka, Bobby Lord, and Peter Leonard. Thanks 589 00:36:42.860 --> 00:36:44.659 to all the researchers we got in touch with for 590 00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:48.739 this episode, including Dr. Damien Dennis, Dr. Phil Gander, and 591 00:36:48.780 --> 00:36:53.250 Matt Frank. A special thanks to Nolazi Nene, the Zuckerman family, 592 00:36:53.449 --> 00:36:58.989 and Joseph LaBelle Wilson. I'm Wendy Zuckerman. All right, I'm 593 00:36:59.010 --> 00:37:01.199 going to stop doing that. Back to you next time.