บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Introducing: "How To Make Films and Influence People" - No Country for Old Men

a TV show into a movie? 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:17.039 Uh it's been done before many times. 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:35.840 We want you to put this together, find a director, give us a vision for it, but find some TV show that hasn't been made into a movie that would be the best one to choose, the most interesting, the most exciting, could be the most commercial, could be the most artistic, whatever way you want to take that. 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:40.000 But what TV show would you choose and how would you do that? 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:43.280 So that's the challenge we've been thinking about. 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:45.759 Uh, and we've got two different answers for this. 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:46.719 I came up with one. 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:49.599 Andrew, what's your what's your pitch for this? 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:59.199 Um, I had a pitch for one that we've been watching, rewatching recently, and has been kind of in the media lately for these jokes about like actually making a movie about this. 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:05.039 The show is New Girl, which me and my wife like, we recently we w rewatched it. 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:16.800 Um and I've seen like like on social media, some of the actors would be like, yeah, we'd make it, but you know, this person's not involved, and they're like joking with each other about how it's always somebody else's fault why they're not making a movie about this. 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:32.960 But I was thinking, okay, if you were to do a movie with this TV show, which uh is about basically five people in a group, and they are all kind of living in LA in their 20s, relationships, that type of a story. 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:39.520 But by the end of the show, it's evolved to where they're all married and they have kids and like jobs. 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:49.120 So I think that's a tough, you know, for a show, you're like, you like the show, I wanted to be in the apartment where they were this whole time, but the apartment's gone. 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:50.960 How do you move on from that? 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:57.919 Um, they do this flash forward in the last episode where they're all like they have kids and it's like this jump in time. 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:01.919 And I was thinking it seems about right, like you could just pick up from there. 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:06.319 But so my pitch, and if you don't know Newgirl, probably won't understand any of this. 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:13.280 But uh my pitch is you have Jess, who is kind of the main that's Newgirl, uh Zoe De Chanel. 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:16.000 But so she's a principal at a school. 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:22.000 Everybody's in the same neighborhood because they want their kids to go to her school for obvious reasons. 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:22.959 They all like that. 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:24.879 They're all kids all get along. 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:28.639 Um, so we have like setup of like they're all in the same place, which we need. 00:04:29.040

--> 00:04:39.439 Kids get along, but the adults are busy with their worlds, and so I think the drama going in would be the issue of we live close to each other, but do we actually ever spend time with each other? 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.639 Do we actually, you know, do what we used to do? 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:51.199 Are we in each other's lives like we used to, even though we are in close proximity, which is a common issue with, you know, adulthood and having kids? 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.040 And I think you could really play off this. 00:04:53.199 --> 00:05:10.720 I was thinking the pitch would be so you have um Schmidt get all the kids to go to a summer camp because he wants to reunite or have everybody get together at his house, and he has everybody come over, they all want to leave, and then we have some sort of like police situation on the street where they're locked in. 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:34.480 And what I think New Girl does best is everybody's in the same room, and you kind of have this back and forth, kind of like the invite in a way, where it's like you have a group, not about what they're talking about, but like you have a group of people, then these two break off, these two break off, then they all come together, and you have like these changing dynamics, and people say things or reveal things, and you can kind of catch up about what's been going on in their lives. 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:42.959 And I think the end would be like, oh, it's better, like we have all have these issues, but if we work together, we can actually help each other out and we should be mourning each other's lives. 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:47.839 But you could do a lot of fun with that of like messing with the dynamic that they do in the show. 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:52.720 Um, because I don't want like for this show, like a big adventure movie where we're going somewhere. 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:54.800 I like it when they're all contained in one place. 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:59.519 So I think I would pitch something like that uh for this show and yeah, see. 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:06.079 And that's kind of a fun I I feel like there have been some movies like that where but it's a fun idea where it sets it up. 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.279 We're gonna be going, you know, it's gonna be this whole new thing. 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:11.519 What would the new girl characters be like in this? 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:15.040 Oh, but nope, something has changed and now they're all just gonna spend time with each other. 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:15.759 Yeah. 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:16.800 Which is what you want. 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:21.439 You don't want new characters, you don't want like some bad guy to come in and like steal the show. 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.120 You just want to hang out with these people some more. 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:23.600 Right. 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:25.519 So try to get a way to do that. 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:28.079 And who would you get to

direct this? 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:46.800 Oh, I was thinking of um well, writing you'd have like the show runner write it, Elizabeth Merriweather, but to direct it, I think the guys who did um Game Night, uh John Francis Daly, Jonathan Golstein, they've done a bunch of other movies that are kind of like they move fast, they're fun, they know how to do comedy. 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:51.439 Um, I think they could be a a good group to like direct that. 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:53.839 Yeah, I think that'd be very fun. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:55.040 I think that'd be very fun. 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:57.680 I'm not I'm not that familiar with New Girl. 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:01.199 I mean, I'm familiar with it, but it's not one of my go-to shows. 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:03.279 But I I I think that sounds great. 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:07.040 I went a little bit more adventurous, I would say, with mine. 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:17.360 So this was a favorite show of mine when I was a kid that I feel like people are vaguely familiar with, uh, if if you were even around back then. 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:43.920 I'm not sure that younger people are familiar with this at all, but the show Perfect Strangers, where Balkie Bartakamos uh comes from his little island of Mepos, which is some kind of like Greek isle, and he reconnects with his cousin Larry Appleton in Chicago, and he moves in and they live in Chicago, and uh they they work in uh like the mail room, I think, at the new at the newspaper. 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:48.240 It's something like that, and it's just lots of cultural jokes. 00:07:48.399 --> 00:08:10.000 It's uh pron uh Bron is it Bronson Pinchot plays uh plays Balkie and he just put has an accent the whole time and he's he's sort of lovably newly discovering American culture all the time, forever, for the whole show, many seasons, and every time he's surprised by American culture. 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:20.720 And uh so it was a it was kind of a funny show that I liked as a as a kid, um and it was a very light comedy, I would say. 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:32.240 And I feel like people have people are sleeping on this one because I think that there's a lot of potential here, but I think my my pitch is we get Ari Aster to remake it. 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:52.320 So we we take a sharp left turn, but basically, either it's sort of years later, either we're saying that happened in the late 80s, early 90s, whatever, and now it's years later, or we say, you know, we're we're just moving the whole story forward. 00:08:52.639 --> 00:09:11.600 But basically, Larry has to go to Meepos, or or people maybe Larry and Balkie have both died, and family members have to go to Meepos to figure out like what you know, we have to go to tell Balkie's family that he has died, something like that. 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.320 We need to go share this with the family there. 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:21.279 Um, and I think there is an episode, there's probably like a two-part episode at some point in the series of Perfect Strangers where they go to Meepos. 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:53.120 But this would be we're going to Meepos, but when they get there, and this would be, I don't know, Larry's daughter, Larry's uh friend, some group of people goes there, they discover it is a bizarre, kind of like midsummer, maybe like hereditary, but there are some crazy uh cultural traditions in this fictional island where we just got the delightful Balkie version of them, but it turns out they're much, much darker. 00:09:53.279 --> 00:10:00.240 And and we we discover along the way there was a reason why Balkie came to live with Larry in Chicago. 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:08.720 It wasn't just innocent trying to discover America, there is some darker story going on, and so we discover that over the course of the movie. 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:16.159 Well, also maybe you know the people are welcoming and oh, here's our traditional feast or whatever, but what are we eating? 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:16.799 What is that? 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:18.240 Who knows where did that come from? 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:19.840 I mean, all of these kind of things. 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:24.559 So it's this kind of like uh ethnographic horror uh kind of thing. 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:28.879 But we'll make it like uh it's mepos, so it's not a specific real place. 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:30.960 So I think that makes it fair game. 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:34.159 And uh I think it would be a departure. 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:42.159 I'm not sure how many like hardcore perfect strangers fans there are who would be heartbroken by this this departure. 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:50.240 I think you're just you're you're pulling on that name recognition and you uh you just tell a creepy, creepy Ariaster story. 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:51.360 That would be my pitch. 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:55.600 So you just leave the comedy behind and you're just going all horror. 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:57.440 I think falling on it. 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:02.320 I I think it's I think it's the same kind of the world, but it's not a comedy world. 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:03.039 That's what I would say. 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:03.519 Yeah. 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:07.200 You know, comedy and horror aren't that far apart, so I think that could work. 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:16.720 A lot of the best horror film guys these days or horror horror filmmakers uh of any gender are uh have a lot of like c comedy background. 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:17.200 Yeah. 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:28.399 Uh, you know, Curry Barker, uh the guy behind uh barbarians, uh I mean, so like there's a lot of uh there's a or bar barbarian and weapons. 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:30.399 Anyway, there's a lot of overlap there. 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:31.759 So I think this could be it. 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.360 Maybe bring back uh Bronson Pinchot in a in a cameo. 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:37.840 Have him show up as something. 00:11:37.919 -->

00:11:40.000 I mean, you gotta have the original cast in there somewhere. 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:41.120 Yep, yep. 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.720 I think and you know, uh Family Matters with Urkel was a spin-off of Perfect Strangers. 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.759 So really maybe you work that back in somehow. 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:50.240 I don't know. 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:52.240 Urkel is actually from Meepos. 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:52.799 Okay. 00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:54.480 So now I understand a little bit. 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:55.679 Urkel's from Meepos. 00:11:55.919 --> 00:12:02.960 No, Urkel he's not really, but I think the mom in Family Matters is a side character in Perfect Strangers. 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:06.480 I think that was the idea of like the dynamics are based on that show. 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:08.000 Family Matters and Perfect. 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:08.399 Okay. 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:10.960 I mean, it it kind of spun off from that, yeah. 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:12.720 Uh yeah, I could see that then. 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:16.159 Like uh a Family Matters is you could make that a horror. 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:17.759 It's not too hard. 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:18.399 Yep. 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:19.679 If you wanted to. 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:22.480 So, I mean, I think that there's a lot to be done here. 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.799 So we'd love to hear from the audience what TV shows would you love to make in the movies? 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:28.240 How would you approach that? 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:41.679 Whether it's the TV show you absolutely love and you want to see a faithful movie version of that, or here's a great premise for a show, but I want to see the crazy, you know, horror version, sci-fi version, comedy version of that in a movie. 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:46.320 So let us know what you think, and we'd we'd love to uh maybe discuss more in the future. 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:49.759 But let's get now into what have we been watching. 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.799 What have you been up watching, uh Andrew? 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:58.960 Um I've been we started the new season of Ted Lasso, which is kind of mid-season right now. 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:01.759 And I liked this show when it came out. 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:03.600 I liked the first couple seasons. 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:12.240 The last season they had like Ted becomes this kind of neurotic guy, and he's not the same character, and I really did not enjoy that season. 00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:20.240 But I like the Ted Lasso character himself of like he's unflappable, he's just no matter what comes his way, he's got it handled. 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:22.720 Everybody around him could be freaking out, but not him. 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:30.639 He's this calm, cool, collected guy, and he's kind of strange in a way, but like he has it all under wraps, even though it doesn't look like he does. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.919 And in this new season, he's back to being that. 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:39.919 I think that the pitch is, you know, he's was in Kansas and they get him to come coach the women's team. 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:48.720 So it's this fun, like a change of dynamic a little bit, and they mess around with like, oh, what is women's football, soccer in England like, and difficulty in that. 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:54.799 But the Ted Lasso character is back to like his original self from season one, which I really enjoy. 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:55.840 I really like that character. 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:57.679 I like seeing him put in these situations. 00:13:57.840 --> 00:13:59.360 How is he gonna figure this out? 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:05.759 The rest of the cast, a lot of drama, a lot of like not that interesting drama. 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:10.000 I feel like if it doesn't revolve around Ted Lasso, I'm just not that into it. 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:11.679 But I don't know. 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:13.600 Ted Lasso's such a fun guy. 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:17.120 I've watched, I'm I'm up to date with like what's come out so far. 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:18.799 I'll probably finish it. 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:21.840 But like it's a hit or miss of like, oh, that was a great scene. 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:23.519 I don't really care too much about this. 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:24.879 So it's kind of a back and forth. 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:25.440 I don't know. 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:31.279 I think I think if you liked it, it's worth giving it a shot to see if this new season's it's better than the last one for sure. 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:32.000 Last season. 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:36.159 Is this one I I've watched the previous seasons, but I haven't I haven't seen this one yet. 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:44.399 Is it more of uh like a a next season, or is it kind of like we're restarting it with the women's team? 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.519 Like is it is it kind of starting fresh? 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:53.679 It's kind of starting fresh, although like the other side characters, it's as if nothing changed for them. 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:57.039 They're just kind of moving forward with their old drama and stuff. 00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:02.240 But like the storylines are different because it's about a women's team and like the issues around that. 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:04.080 So it does feel fresh in a lot of ways. 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:07.440 I would say like there's a lot of new stuff going on that's more fun. 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:12.000 Yeah, because that last season just it just was hard to watch a lot of that. 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:13.600 It's too dramatic. 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.159 But this feels a lot more lighter and more fun. 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:18.240 We'll see if they stick that way or not. 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:20.000 Okay, okay, great. 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:21.200 Well, I'll check it out. 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:25.039 And uh so Ted Lasso new season, Ted Lasso in general. 00:15:25.279 -->

00:15:34.559 I watched, so I recently went on a trip to uh Plymouth, Massachusetts, uh doing a little, you know, history learning, history experiencing. 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.600 I've got some ancestors who were on the Mayflower. 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:46.960 Uh my ancestors are sort of either quite recent European immigrants or very, very like early immigrants to America. 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.440 That's sort of how my uh family tree breaks down. 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:57.279 But um the and it turns out like if you have one Mayflower ancestor, you probably have more just because it was a small group back then. 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:01.360 But uh so I've been watching a couple films inspired by that. 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:03.279 I watched The Village, M. 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:10.000 Night Shyamalan, which is not which is not Plymouth, it's set supposedly in the 1890s. 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:30.960 And then uh I also watched The Witch by Robert Eggers, which is set basically like in the 1620s, like a family from Plymouth has decided that the Plymouth plantation is too liberal, and so they're gonna move out into the country outside of Plymouth, and then things go wildly awry. 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:39.919 And uh it was it, I would say the village I thought was in this sort of like historical mind. 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:52.080 I thought the witch was just so rich in its look at history and its like glimpse into what life might have been like, in some ways, literally might have been like in for people at that time. 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:57.679 That's something Robert Eggers is really good at paying so much attention to getting the details right. 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:22.160 But um, but then also not just literally what life would have been like, but if you were in this sort of hyper-religious uh focus of life, but also living on the frontier when there are so many threats to your very survival, what would that do to your uh how you process the world, how you look at life and death, how you look at superstition and things like that? 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.319 I think The Witch is fascinating. 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:29.359 It's it is quite scary, I would say, but it's not full of jump scares. 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.839 It's it's more just sort of slow, dread, creepy ideas. 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:37.519 Uh so not for everybody, but I think a really smart movie. 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:59.599 The village is playing with this idea of people in the past, how does how do sort of people living in this village where they can't ever leave the village because the the talk is that there are monsters in the woods around the village, and so they need to stay within the village, always protect their border, but now something has gone wrong. 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:01.440 And are the monsters here? 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:02.160 Are they real? 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:02.960 Are they coming in? 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:04.079 Is something else going on?

00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:08.400 And then there are a bunch of twists that happen, but that's basically the setup for the village. 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:36.559 But it is it's one thing I don't want to spoil the village, but it is interesting to me that uh this it's set in the 1890s, but setting it in the 1890s, I'll say, is interesting that part of the idea of the movie is we're in this idyllic time when everything is so wonderful and natural and people just get along with each other, and then bad influences interrupt that. 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.039 That's kind of the premise for the movie. 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:47.599 And I feel like if you look at history, I mean, no time was perfect, but I would say the 1890s were not a great time. 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:59.119 I mean, living on the frontier, living in a little town, like that is that is a rough, rough life with lots of uh not only threats from outside, but violence within a community. 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:06.720 And I think this is this I'm thinking of this especially because of some of the things I want to talk about with No Country for Old Men. 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:22.559 But it's an interesting take on like how did you possibly like if you're watching this thinking that this is gonna be this beautiful idyllic time, except for the monsters, and I I do feel like no, of course it wasn't gonna be idyllic. 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.400 But it is something I think that's worth thinking about as a viewer. 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:33.039 Is that a fault of the movie, or is the movie saying these people are wrong for thinking that it should be idyllic? 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:41.839 Is it is the movie dumb for missing that point, or is the movie smart, and actually part of the idea is that the characters are missing that. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.559 Uh, and I I think that's something one could debate. 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:46.079 But uh I don't know. 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:54.000 So I would say The Witch, I really liked The Village, I thought was good, and I thought there's a lot of conversation to be had about it. 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.880 Not quite the same level of recommendation, I would say, though. 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:58.319 Have you seen either of those? 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.279 I remember watching The Village um a while back. 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:02.960 I don't remember too much about it anymore. 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:03.759 I remember liking it. 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.119 The Witch is on my list, though. 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:06.079 I need to watch that one. 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.920 I've heard so many good things. 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:09.039 Gotta see it. 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:09.680 Gotta see it. 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.440 Well, I need to watch that one. 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:20.160 When you're uh when you're feeling just too chipper about life after watching Ted Lasso, then then watch The Witch and it'll uh it'll it'll change your mood real quick. 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.680 Yeah, we have to watch comedy after uh some of these movies. 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:25.279 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:29.680 So, all right, so we've got Ted Lasso season is it season four? 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:30.960 I think it's season four. 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:31.519 Yep. 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.880 The witch, the village, ones all worth checking out. 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.559 Maybe not the biggest winners of all time, but uh, but there you go. 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.920 All right, so now let's get into No Country for Old Men. 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:45.359 What can you tell us about that, Andrew? 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.400 No Country for Old Men 2007, directed by Joel and Ethan Cohen. 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:57.519 Llewellyn Moss stumbles upon dead bodies, two million dollars and a horde of heroin in a Texas desert. 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:10.319 But methodical killer Anton Shigur comes looking for it with local sheriff Ed Tom Bell hot on his trail, the roles of prey and predator blur as the violent pursuit of money and justice collide. 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:24.799 And uh on the surface, I think this is about that kind of cat and mouse game where you have a few people involved in tracking this money down, who has the money, who's trying to get it, who knows what. 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.400 And uh that's kind of a fun game to play. 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:45.680 And I think below that there's a lot more going on with this film to where you could almost say that the story of what happens literally may not actually matter or mean as much as what's the themes of this all, how this is all playing out. 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:56.240 Um I thought this was an interesting dynamic for a film to where I guess you kind of wonder what does this mean at the end of it? 00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:57.519 What are they trying to say? 00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.119 Are they trying to say anything? 00:21:59.279 --> 00:21:59.599 But I think. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.119 That was all intentional. 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.920 I feel like that's the real takeaway that people get with this film. 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.079 Like when my wife watched it first time, she's like, I don't get it, you know? 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.079 And I think a lot of people have that issue. 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:12.480 Do you think there is something to get here? 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.839 Do you think that's part of like what they're trying to do? 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.440 I feel like it was all intentional. 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:18.400 What do you think? 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:26.960 I think it's I think it's I mean, I can't say what's all intentional, but I think that there's a lot going on here that I think that they were intending on. 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:32.880 And I think that the fact that it doesn't neatly wrap things up, I think is uh has to be intentional. 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.680 It's based on a Cormac

McCarthy novel, uh, and I haven't read the novel. 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:39.839 I understand it's fairly close to that. 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:56.000 I do feel like there's some things with this story that you could see maybe not working better in a book form because I think the film really works, but I think it might not uh I think as a film the structure is kind of surprising. 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:59.519 And I think that as a book that might not surprise you as much. 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:09.920 Uh but I think I think that there are some movies where it's kind of like an Aesops fable where you get to the end and it's like, yep, here is the lesson from this story. 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:17.519 And here I think there's so many interesting things to discuss, but I wouldn't say that there's a clear, oh, that was the message of the movie. 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:18.240 Right. 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:19.039 Yeah. 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:26.799 And if you're looking for that or expecting that, which you almost are, like it sets up the idea that there is going to be a message and then there just isn't one. 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:32.079 And it sets up the idea of this story is going to like have a resolution. 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:35.279 And I think even that you're like, well, there's loose ends out there. 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:45.519 They did not finish the story of, you know, what happened to the money, who dies and who lives, what happens to Shigur, Anton, like all those things you don't know. 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:58.720 But thematically, it does feel like there is a conclusion to this with um Tommy Lee Jones', you know, monologues, which are kind of bookend at the beginning and the end of this, that kind of hold the whole thing together. 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:21.839 So I do feel like because you see you start off the movie with this voiceover of Tommy Lee Jones, who a character you don't see for like 30 minutes, and he's giving you kind of this intro into the world and the themes of the world, and then he kind of ends it as well, which I think the first time I watched it, hearing him this voiceover, you're like, I don't know what this has to do with anything. 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:29.359 But watching it again, I think it makes a ton of sense, and it's right on theme, and it's exactly what you want to hear or need to hear for the story to work. 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:34.640 Um, and then at the end, he kind of ties it together too, in this nice thematic way. 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:36.880 What does it actually mean it's not clear? 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.079 I think that's upper interpretation, but that's part of the point of it. 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:44.400 Did you think that worked, that kind of voiceover those monologues working in this? 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.160 I did think it worked. 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:47.519 I didn't think it was a problem. 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:54.079 I I don't feel like I guess my read of the movie is that that's one perspective on what's going on. 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:59.359 Not that that's sort of the authoritative, like I'm summing up everything here. 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:17.039 But but I think the idea, but I think and I think the film is playing with our expectations and playing with the idea of, you know, the idea that the wise old sheriff is gonna be, you know, this is what I've learned over my career, and you know, this is, you know, I'm pulled back in for one last case or something. 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:18.799 That's a story that we've seen before. 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:25.440 The you know, hit man out to, you know, on the job to kill somebody, you know, well, how's that gonna go? 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:26.720 That's a story we've seen before. 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.640 The guy finds two million dollars in the desert, and then what's he gonna do? 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:32.000 Who's who's looking for him? 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:33.440 That's a story we've seen. 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:48.160 The psychopathic killer, how I'm like, I feel like there are so many different stories that this is alluding to that it's drawing on, and it doesn't give us quite the satisfaction of saying of it playing out as any one of those. 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:55.440 It's sort of like, well, what if five of these different movies were all happening at once with the same characters? 00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:03.279 Yeah, because it kind of like at the end, especially kind of pulls the rug out from under you where you're like, oh, that's not at all what I thought this was going to be. 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:13.200 And I think you know, a lot of people have an issue with that, but I think it works because it's the unexpectedness of it, the like the way that they all play out is part of what the movie's about. 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:20.160 Of this, like, there's a little bit of chance, this chaos, this randomness, what has meaning, what doesn't have meaning. 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:30.319 And I think the movie being intentionally vague in that area of like giving it meaning is why it works, I think, for this specifically. 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:36.319 I don't think a lot of films could pull that off, but the way that they tell this story, I think it works. 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:37.119 Yeah. 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:58.240 There's there's uh so the Tommy Lee Jones visits is it his cousin that he visits, but uh, but who who sort of is talking about that's your vanity and kind of thinking things Tommy Lee Jones is saying, you know, I used to understand there was crime, but I kind of understood it, or it made sense, or it sort of fit within certain boundaries, and now it doesn't. 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:04.319 And that and and then the response to that is sort of said, that's not really true, that's your vanity. 00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:17.920 And I yeah, I think that there's a lot uh one thread that seems to flow through a lot of the movie here is people thinking that

they have control over their environment or people wanting control over their environment. 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:23.359 And this idea that uh, you know, I always knew there was crime, but it used to make more sense. 00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:26.160 No, you thought you could control it, but you can't. 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.079 The Woody Harrelson character thinks that he can control things. 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:46.319 Uh the the James uh Josh Brolin character, Moss, Llewellyn Moss, which is such a such an interesting name for a guy in this Texas hard, you know, hard-edged, gritty drama thriller. 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:52.079 Uh, but but he thinks, I mean, he seems like the main character of the story. 00:27:52.240 --> 00:28:05.440 And it seems like he is a normal guy with a Vietnam vet, kind of a tough guy, knows his way around a gun, he stumbles upon a drug deal gone wrong with a lot of heroin and cash. 00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:10.240 He comes back, takes the cash, but people are there and they he has to run from them. 00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:17.759 So the the movie makes sense very quickly as okay, somebody found money, and now what's he gonna do about it? 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:18.720 How is he gonna escape? 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:25.279 It makes sense that he is our main character and that we are seeing his story as he tries to escape. 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:30.960 And for a lot of the movie, that's what it is, and it seems like, oh, he's actually quite clever. 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:36.079 Let's have my wife go to her mom in Odessa where people aren't gonna be looking for her. 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.680 Let me go to this motel room instead of that motel room to hide out. 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:47.440 It seems like he's the really smart main character, but then and and so it seems like he has some control over his environment. 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:58.319 He has control within what he thinks he has, and we think that he's the main character and thus should have control over his environment to some extent. 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:05.920 And then things fall apart, and they fall apart to such an extent that it becomes like, oh, I guess he's not even the main character anymore. 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:08.559 You're like, what happened? 00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:13.279 Yeah, because you know, not to spoil anything, but if you're listening to this, I think we are gonna spoil things. 00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:17.039 So we'll say that now, and I think we have to spoil some things. 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:17.279 Yeah. 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:18.799 Yeah, there's no way around it. 00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:29.440 But it's almost like, you know, like in Psycho when the main character dies, it's like, oh, I didn't you you don't think it's coming that he's just gonna you're just gonna find him dead, and it's not like we didn't even see the shootout. 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.440 Like, this is so anticlimatic the way that his story ends. 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.119 You find him in a hotel room with Moss specifically, yeah, yeah. 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:39.839 And you're like, oh, okay, I guess that's it. 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:41.359 And you just kind of move on. 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.039 And uh yeah, that that aspect of like he could control so much. 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:49.279 And then you have the Anton character who's like, I can also control things. 00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:51.440 And he's like, You're gonna hand me the bag. 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:52.799 And you're like, well, maybe he is. 00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:55.839 He seems to be in control, and then that's not how it works either. 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.480 Like the way that he's like, I know what's going to happen. 00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:00.720 Even Anton says this, I know what's gonna happen. 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.039 And so you kind of think that's what's gonna happen. 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:06.880 It doesn't, you know, like that's not how he says it's gonna happen, is how it happens. 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:20.400 And so, like, all these characters, they all think they know, they all say what's gonna happen, and it doesn't, and it it kind of feels from a movie perspective, of like, well, you know, like shouldn't our main character, shouldn't somebody know what's going on? 00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:23.359 But the theme is no one does, no one can control any of this. 00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:24.000 Mm-hmm. 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:24.400 I think. 00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:39.039 And I and I think Shigur has this sense of like he's literally talking about fate and chance, and there's a there's one scene we have to talk about with the gas station attendant, but but but he's literally talking about these things and about where does the control lie. 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:39.440 Yeah. 00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:46.880 But I think Moss, he might not put things in in as clear terms, but I think he thinks that he can make this make it out of here. 00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:53.920 He thinks that he's smart enough to get out of this, and certainly the Woody Harrelson character comes in very confident. 00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:54.400 Oh, yeah. 00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:56.480 He knows exactly what he's dealing with. 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.359 He is brought in to hunt down Shagur. 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:06.319 So Shig so basically what's happened on a plot level is that this drug deal went wrong. 00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:10.240 Moss found the money, he left the heroin, took the money. 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:18.720 The people, and it's not quite clear which side of the deal I think I don't think it's quite, it wasn't quite clear to me, but people are people want their money back. 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.920 And Shagur is going looking for that money. 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:33.759 And I I don't know if it's the other side of the deal or if it's people who don't trust Shagur, but but Woody Harrelson is hired to go stop Shagur and get the money.

00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.119 And uh was that clear to you who was who was hiring him? 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:43.039 At the end, they were like, Oh yeah, they gave the tracker to a bunch of people because they figure a bunch of people will find it. 00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.400 So I think that's what's going on. 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:44.799 Okay. 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:48.400 And then Anton's like, no, that's not how you know, I'm not gonna play like that. 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:56.720 But the point being, I don't know if Woody Woody Harrelson is hired to find Shigure and basically and he is quite confident that he can do it. 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:03.839 And then when he encounters Shigure, he's quite confident that he can talk him down and that he can make a compromise. 00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:11.119 That he like he thinks that Shigure works within the same world and the same way of thinking about things that he does. 00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:26.640 And what he discovers uh with his own at the cost of his own life is that Shigure does not, and that his him thinking that he's smart enough to know how it all works is to his own detriment, and that Shigure is not operating under those rules. 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:30.720 But also we see Shigure, I think it's such a powerful moment. 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:44.640 Almost at the end of the film, Shigure gets in a car accident, which in in another movie I would say is like a weird cheat, like, oh, come on, like just out of nowhere he gets T-boned in an intersection. 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:51.119 But I think it's really important in this film because so much of the story has been about how much do you control? 00:32:51.440 --> 00:33:03.839 And it has seemed like Shigur is this kind of superhuman figure or you know, evil superhuman figure that has control of everything and is always outsmarting, always more powerful than everyone. 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:09.200 And then he gets just hit in a car accident and just out of nowhere. 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:13.599 And I think that's a really important part of nobody has control. 00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:14.960 Yeah. 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:18.160 That theme, which is kind of like a depressing theme. 00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:24.720 And I think that's why at least a lot of people like, oh, you know, because it's not what you want to hear, but the idea is nobody in this does. 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.960 And you think like the Shigur character is the last character where you think, okay, maybe this is the guy who does have it figured out. 00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:32.799 No, he doesn't have it figured out either. 00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:47.279 That conversation he has with Woody Harrelson, great conversation, and he's like, if the rule led you here, of what good is the rule, or something like that, of like that that idea of, you know, if you if you get here, like what point is following anything? 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:51.039 But Shigur is following some type of philosophy.

00:33:51.119 --> 00:34:00.480 Like he's got a worldview that he does follow with this coin flipping and the chance, and like I made it here, and he just believes in chance and fate. 00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:03.759 And, you know, that comes back to bite him at the end. 00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:06.720 Like he doesn't control things and he kind of gets caught. 00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:12.800 And so I think it's kind of poking holes into all of these ideas, like everybody's worldview. 00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:14.800 The movie's kind of saying none of them are right. 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:18.239 Like we can't prove definitively that any of this is actually true. 00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:21.519 That any any way of living is the correct way of living. 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:24.320 And I think that's just an interesting way to do a movie. 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:29.920 That's a hard ask of an audience, but I think it really comes through and it works here. 00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:30.400 Yeah. 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:37.039 And I think, you know, psychologically, there's something where people don't like feeling out of control. 00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:47.840 And people like that so or dislike that so much that they would rather have somebody be bad and in charge, just so they can know the bad. 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:53.360 Okay, I wish a good guy were in charge, but if a bad guy is in charge, at least I know what the rules are. 00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:56.239 And I think we almost want Shigur. 00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.400 Okay, he's bad. 00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:03.599 That you know, I wish this had a happy ending, but at least it would make sense if he stays in charge. 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:07.440 But the fact that he doesn't, I think that's unsettling to us. 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:09.840 We don't like that uncertainty. 00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:11.679 Yeah, that's the feeling. 00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:13.199 That's the theme of the movie. 00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:20.079 And that's like, I don't know many movies that do that, you know, like it's just kind of a one-on-one here. 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:31.679 It was reminding me in some ways, just the way that they play with the themes of this, where the movie itself, there's the story, and then like underneath is this like we're just exploring these themes just for the sake of exploration. 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:35.119 We're not giving you a message, we're not telling you what's right or wrong. 00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.079 We just want to explore these ideas wherever they lead. 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:47.840 It kind of reminded me in a way of uh Bergman films, the Ingmar Bergman, where he does a lot of like he just explores a theme and then it kind of like meanders a little bit. 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.320 You don't really know where it lands at the end. 00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:54.159 Sometimes you do, but like you just get different perspectives. 00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:57.519 And it doesn't say which perspective is right, which perspective is wrong. 00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:02.559 It's just saying, here's two perspectives, let's explore it and just see where it leads. 00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:04.320 And that's part of the fun of the movie. 00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:08.800 That's like just that that is worth doing even if you don't come to some conclusion. 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:13.280 And I feel like there's a little bit of that here, but this is very different stylistically than that. 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:15.119 Um buried mid films, at least. 00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:23.679 I mean, and I I think that that's some I I think it makes sense that this is not the Cone Brothers' first film, that it it wasn't like the first thing that they made. 00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:33.119 And I think that there are some really good films that work well to model your your efforts after, and some that are just not very good models. 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:42.480 And I think that like I think Die Hard is a great film, and I think it's an excellent film to use as a model for how to structure a film. 00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:49.599 It it really delivers on, you know, it's got enough theme, it's got enough character development, and it delivers on what it says it's gonna deliver. 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:55.199 No country for old men is maybe a better movie, certainly an excellent movie. 00:36:55.360 --> 00:37:11.360 Uh, you know, don't need to don't need to rank them right there, but um, it's certainly an excellent movie, but man, I would not I would not look at this as a model for how to make a movie because it's so nuanced and like it's so unsatisfying in certain ways. 00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:26.079 The the ability of a filmmaker to make a movie that doesn't satisfy the audience the way the audience wants to be satisfied, and yet still is a rewarding watch, that is that is a 10 out of 10, you know, difficulty level. 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:31.360 And you don't always have to go for the most difficult uh routine when you're making a movie. 00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:33.199 But I think that's what they've done here. 00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:33.840 Yeah. 00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:35.280 Yeah, like the difficulty level. 00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:36.480 That's a good way of thinking about it. 00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:39.599 Like this is the hardest type of movie you could make. 00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:40.639 You're like in a pitch. 00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:44.719 I don't know, you know, even how to go about something like this, how it came about. 00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:55.519 But yeah, that idea of you know, it's unsatisfying in all these ways, and yet people still love it, it's still rewarding, it's I think impossible to look at and say, this is a bad film. 00:37:55.599 --> 00:38:00.159 It's just so well done on every level, and that it was all intentional. 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:03.920 Like that's what they wanted it to be, and you're gonna like it. 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:04.639 And I do. 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:05.119

Yeah. 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:15.119 I mean, I do think I guess I would say there's a higher difficulty level still, which is we're gonna have nothing happen and it and it's still be interesting. 00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:21.679 And I'm not sure how many good movies there are like that, uh, but I feel like that would be a yet higher level of difficulty. 00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:22.000 Yeah. 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:27.679 What I think is interesting here is that they set up a pretty compelling movie premise. 00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:30.400 And and in fact, they've explored this with other movies too. 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:33.280 The idea of like you find money and then what are you gonna do about it? 00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:36.719 Or people are looking for money and what's gonna happen along that road. 00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:48.880 And and so this idea of uh Moss finds money and then is on the run, you have the skeleton of a story that the audience can latch on to. 00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:57.039 You then subvert their expectations again and again, and you have lots of different elements that don't necessarily always go along with that kind of story. 00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:03.599 But I do think it is smart, like they're not just leaving us in the wind like with no story to hold on to. 00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:11.199 There is a skeleton of a story that actually is a pretty, you know, kind of standard kind of thriller kind of plot line. 00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:13.920 It just that's not really what the movie's about. 00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:14.559 Yeah. 00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:22.079 And on the surface level, even if you don't know what's going on underneath, if you don't follow the themes, I think surface level, that takes you all the way to the end. 00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:25.920 And then at the end, I think you're gonna be left disappointed if you don't know what's going on underneath. 00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:34.000 Because that last scene where it's Llewellyn's wife in the room, he flips the coin, you feel like this is the time for closure. 00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:38.000 Give us something concrete, direct, let's see what happens. 00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:42.320 She says, I'm not choosing, you know, and then it just kind of ends. 00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:44.400 And then you go on to the next scene. 00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:48.079 It's like, I just want it, but you don't need it. 00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:54.559 Like the I think, like, what would it take for you as a filmmaker to say, I'm leaving that out. 00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:00.320 I'm not going to give you that, which is it seems like the whole story's building to that moment. 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.159 And it's like, we're not giving you that. 00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:03.920 Like to know it's still gonna work. 00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:04.639 That's tough. 00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:15.039 Well, and I think that takes a lot of confidence as a filmmaker to say, I know that the choices I'm making now are gonna be perceived by some people as bad filmmaking. 00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:15.280 Yeah. 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:28.079 The idea that I'm gonna have my main character die off screen well before the ending of the film, or you know, but not at the cli like not at the end of the film, that's that's a weird choice by most standards. 00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:39.360 Or the idea of, you know, these people there's being unrelentingly bleak, kind of, or the idea that like we're fin, you know, these things don't pay off in the way you expected them to. 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:47.360 I think that a lot of viewers, if you are looking at it at just a superficial level, would come away feeling like, oh, like I I like the first half. 00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:51.519 You had me in the first half with the movie, and then it just was very disappointing. 00:40:51.679 --> 00:41:07.119 I think you could be, if you're not realizing what they're doing on a deeper level, I think it would catch your attention in the first half and then be supremely disappointing in the second half, and you would come away thinking they ruined the movie in the later part of the movie. 00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:07.920 Yeah. 00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:09.679 And I yeah, a lot of people do. 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:14.719 And I think the first time I watched this, I still really liked it, but I didn't like it didn't hit the same way. 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:22.000 Watching it again, I do find there's some value in re-watching this film in particular because I think it was, I'm like, oh yeah, that's how you had to do it. 00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.360 Like that makes a lot more sense just knowing, seeing it again. 00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:43.519 And so I think there's an element of just it's so unexpected the first time, but once you get over that fact of like what they're doing, there's so much here to discover and like think about that you almost like, oh, I would never have you know picked that, I wouldn't have seen that coming. 00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.400 But now that I see how they did it, I don't have any complaints. 00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:48.000 I don't know that I would change anything. 00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:48.800 Mm-hmm. 00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:49.519 Mm-hmm. 00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:54.000 It's interesting to think about the uh Shigur character. 00:41:54.159 --> 00:42:02.559 Um, I mean, I think you know, the Moss character, there are a lot of characters who are interesting here, but I think the Shigur character to me stands out as the most unique one. 00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:14.320 And there's so many different aspects to this that um there's the famous scene where he's in the gas station and he tells the gas station attendant, who's an older man, to flip a coin. 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:24.000 But so first he's he's talking to him in this very uh off-putting way, asking when he closes, when do you go to bed, where do you live. 00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:28.719 And and it's it's so interesting because the guy keeps responding.

00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:32.719 And he, you know, he's like, Well, that's a weird question, but okay, here's the answer. 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:34.960 It's a very it's a very interesting exchange. 00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:35.840 It's unsettling. 00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:43.599 And the but then ultimately Shigur ha has him flip the coin, and it I guess it comes up that he's going to live. 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:53.119 And if he had come up the other way, he would have killed him, and then he and then he tells him, you know, keep this coin, because this this coin is the most important coin in your life. 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:58.480 It's a it's such I mean, I think it's a masterclass in just a compelling, suspenseful scene. 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:07.519 Do you think that says something deeper about the movie, or is it just one little fun scene and uh you know as one little vignette within the movie? 00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:17.119 I think it says a lot about his character, which we needed at that point, because you do see him like kill people, but like the people he kills before that scene, there's no coin flipping. 00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:17.920 He just kills them. 00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:22.320 And like in this scene, he flips the coin, it's heads, the guy lives. 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:27.920 Do we have a scene where he flips a coin and they kills him because of the coin flip? 00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:30.800 Like every other time he's gonna kill somebody, he just kills them. 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:38.159 And so I don't know, like I was thinking about that this time, like I I know he did it, it did land on heads, so obviously that's something. 00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:40.559 I don't know if it's like a trick coin, but it couldn't be. 00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:41.599 Like it has the date on it. 00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:43.119 So he gives him the coin, he lives. 00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:50.800 It seems like there are certain people that he wants to let live, and certain people that he doesn't, and he's not gonna give them the chance to flip a coin. 00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:59.760 So it almost I think in that that scene in particular, it gives you this false sense of like there are rules to the game, you know, and it sets up this idea. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:02.000 Of this is how he plays it. 00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:04.400 If you know the rules, you can get along with this. 00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:07.119 But then it doesn't follow those rules the rest of the movie. 00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:09.119 So it's kind of like the yeah. 00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:10.559 Yeah, it's interesting. 00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:12.800 I mean, and I think that's an interesting part of his character. 00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:17.039 I mean, I I guess I guess I'm not sure if I don't remember seeing another coin. 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:20.079 I mean, there's the the discussion of the coin theory at the end. 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:20.800 Yeah. 00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:23.599 He flips it and then he says to call

it and she doesn't do it. 00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:25.360 So we don't know where that lands. 00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:26.159 I don't know. 00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:34.880 But I do think to some extent, part of what he's doing is this person has gotten in my way, you know, at other points. 00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:40.719 This person has gotten in my way, and that is them being in my way is fate having chosen that they need to die. 00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:48.079 The fact that this deputy in the office of the police department is trying to arrest me means that he's gonna die. 00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:51.920 The fact that this person has a car when I need that car means that they're gonna die. 00:44:52.079 --> 00:45:04.400 Like like fate is I think he would think that fate has decided for them, but then there are other circumstances where it's not clear that they need to die, and so he'll leave it up to fate. 00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:18.239 I mean, it's all crazy, and I I Yeah But I I think he has decided that there should be some rules to things, but but maybe he doesn't maybe he's not perfect in following those rules. 00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:25.280 Yeah, there is some sense of like us trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense inherently. 00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:27.840 You know, like we're not gonna be able to do it. 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:38.000 We want to do it, we want to discuss this film as like here's how to make sense of this film, but the film it's the whole time is trying to have us not make sense of it. 00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:40.239 Like the theme is things don't make sense. 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:44.400 And so it's just like a tricky thing of like balancing and how do they play it out? 00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:49.840 Do even the Cohen brothers have like, this is how what it means, this is what it's supposed to mean? 00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:50.880 I don't know. 00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:58.400 I think in some ways, though, I was thinking about this in the film, this character reminds me of the Joker from The Dark Knight. 00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:05.920 In certain ways, like philosophically, this idea, even though this came out in 07, it's like there are some like weird coincidences here. 00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:08.800 This idea of like he's just doing chaos. 00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:19.119 He doesn't really, he's not motivated by money like that much, and he's just going around like there's a scene of Shigur like shooting a bird on a on a bridge, and you're like, what was that? 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:30.159 Like, he's just kind of like this force that just kind of moves, goes by chance, and the Joker in The Dark Knight is like this contrary to like we just need to let things go. 00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:33.039 Some people just like want to watch the world burn, you know. 00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:36.079 I'm just an agent of chaos, like it's not about the money. 00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:44.639 There's all those themes that are then played out in The Dark Knight that I think similar to this character in a way, played out differently here, though. 00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:48.000 But it's interesting that those two movies came out, you know, a year after each other. 00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:49.840 Like, what was it about the time? 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.800 Like these themes were very prevalent in this time that they just get explored in certain ways. 00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.280 And this is one way to do it, but it doesn't make sense. 00:46:57.519 --> 00:46:58.639 It's hard to make sense of. 00:46:58.960 --> 00:46:59.679 That's interesting. 00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:16.639 Yeah, and I I don't I don't know that I do think the Joker is a little I I think that the Shigur character is I mean, he seem I don't think he could uh he seems a little bit more realistic to me, which sounds crazy because he doesn't seem very realistic. 00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:21.039 But I think the Joker seems almost more like an allegorical figure. 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:26.880 Like, you know, it's it it's a it's in a comic book kind of movie, it's a little bit different. 00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:44.639 Shigur though, this idea that he I I mean I think it's really interesting that he is a hitman, and that I think that's such an interesting part of this that he has been hired to go get this money and kill people, but he also is just kind of a serial killer for fun. 00:47:44.960 --> 00:48:08.960 And I think I mean, and I think there probably are other pulpy like uh movies that have that kind of plot line to it, but this idea that he's both doing something for his job and does it anyway, and it's this blurring of what is being a professional, and I think the Woody Harrelson character totally understands the idea of killing people for your job. 00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:18.159 And I think he assumes that that's you know, he says about Shigure, oh, you know, he's a you know violent psychopath or whatever, but there are lots of those. 00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:26.559 And I I think the idea that uh that he's so dismissive of that is kind of well, lot you know, lots of people kill people for their job or whatever. 00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:27.840 It's it's not that big a deal. 00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:41.679 But Shigur uh does seem like I mean he he both is doing this professionally and just does this from some instinctual drive that he has no empathy for people, has no problem with killing them. 00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.000 I'm not sure that he enjoys it. 00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:54.079 It might just be a not I mean it just seems like he's just doing it for fun, like he's just bored, you know, it's like, oh, I guess I'll just do this, which is a strange thing. 00:48:54.480 --> 00:49:01.599 It does seem like I I I think a lot of serial killers you would expect there to be a thrill, maybe a sexual thrill to it. 00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:04.960 And here it just seems like anybody who happens upon him. 00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:09.440 And the fact that he's

using this, uh what what is it? 00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:13.840 It's like a it's like a cattle gun, but it's like for stunning animals before slaughter. 00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:16.079 He doesn't treat people like people. 00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:17.760 Everybody is just an animal. 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:20.639 And I think that that's a really interesting weapon choice. 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:28.480 At another I mean, he gets a gun at another time, but like the idea that he's treating people as animals. 00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:57.920 And the movie starts with him, does it start right away with him kill but or or very quickly, he's killing somebody with that, and he says, you know, just stay stand still, and he and he kills the person, and then we cut immediately to Moss shooting at a distance a deer or a good cut, like a like an antelope or something, and uh like a longhorn, and saying, you know, stand still, stand still. 00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:03.360 But it's this, you know, it's this really interesting cut because they're doing the same thing. 00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:13.119 One of them is killing a person, one of them is killing an animal, one of them is right close up, one of them is very far away, but it's this kind of parallel between the two of them. 00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:21.440 And I, you know, I think that it again, I don't think the movie then says, well, and thus they are actually two sides of the same person. 00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:26.559 I don't think it's quite as neat a comparison as that, but it is drawing on that comparison. 00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:36.719 And it's it's kind of setting up this idea that the Shagur character and the Josh Brolin character, they're they have a lot more in common than you would think. 00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:47.440 They seem like they're opposites, like they both are against each other, but they're really more like each other, which is another theme that comes up in the Dark Knight, with Batman and the Joker being so closely related. 00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:52.400 But like the Josh Brolin, the Shagur, they're both hunting innocent things. 00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:56.639 No one would watch this movie and say Josh Brolin did the right thing at any point in this movie. 00:50:56.880 --> 00:50:58.719 He is not the good guy either, right? 00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:02.800 He goes around, he's stealing money, he's running from the law, he's ready to kill people for it. 00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:04.239 It's not his money. 00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:06.719 You know, and like he's sending his wife away. 00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:12.719 He doesn't like you, you get a sense of like maybe he has he wants his wife to live, but he doesn't negotiate for her or anything. 00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:14.159 He thinks he can handle this all. 00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:18.800 So it's like, how different is he from Shigur in this film? 00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:25.119 He is, he thinks he has some control with the way he lives, but he's just acting like nobody else matters. 00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:26.400 He's doing what he wants. 00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:37.199 And think about the moment he he gets in, he's had the shootout with Shigur, he gets he stops a guy on the road, gets in his truck, you know, he's holding a shotgun, he says, Don't worry, I'm not gonna hurt you. 00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:39.360 And then immediately the guy gets shot. 00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:47.519 Now he gets shot by Shigur, but like the that idea that like he only got shot because you stopped him. 00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:49.360 You did, like, you caused it. 00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:50.159 You did hurt him. 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:51.519 You did hurt him. 00:51:51.760 --> 00:52:00.639 But but that's because you were thinking of your control over the situation in one way, but not thinking about the ways that you couldn't control the situation, but you did hurt him. 00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:03.519 I mean, and I that is that is such an interesting part of this. 00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:15.920 I'm choosing to hurt you directly. 00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:19.119 It's like, well, both of them kind of result in the same thing, you know. 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:19.360 Yeah. 00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:21.760 And I think there's there's an element of that to explore as well. 00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:23.280 How different are they really? 00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:23.920 Yep. 00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:25.920 There's uh the the the it's what is it called? 00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:33.920 The train car or trolley car uh like uh like game theory where they where like do you do you send it down one track or the other? 00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:36.960 Apparently, I was talking about my ancestors in the past. 00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:40.079 One of my Swedish ancestors came to America. 00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:57.039 Apparently, uh he he was working he was like at a like a like a rural train station and did the tracks wrong, and there there in fact was a uh like he was supposed to switch the track, and there was in fact some kind of like death, and he so he fled the country and immigrated to America. 00:52:57.280 --> 00:53:01.519 Um it's a real life trolley problem there. 00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:03.840 And that's uh that's my connection to this movie. 00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:07.360 And that that and there's a there's an actual solution to this, right? 00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:08.079 Like presented. 00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:10.000 That's the thing that there's Texas. 00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:10.159 Yeah. 00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:11.840 That's uh that's that's the answer there. 00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:13.199 And get yourself involved. 00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:29.840 But it is I you know, and we and we should be sort of wrapping up, but uh there's there's a lot to talk about with this movie, but uh but that idea of like the control and must and I think that when you have this cartel, maybe it's a Mexican cartel, but then there's the Stephen Root character. 00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:32.480 I don't know who

he works for, who hires Woody Harrelson. 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:36.960 So there are big businesses that care about this drug deal gone wrong. 00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:43.440 And Moss and Shigur are kind of connected to that, but also both kind of outside of it. 00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:44.960 And I think that's interesting. 00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:55.280 Like the cartel guys show up to kill Moss, but then Shigur kills them because like Shigur comes into his hotel room and it's like there it's the shootout. 00:53:55.440 --> 00:54:12.559 And I think that's that's sort of symbolic of like there is this whole business arrangement happening that Moss and Shagur are related to tangentially, or or not tangentially, but are connected to, but they sort of live outside of that. 00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:18.000 They're just sort of you know looking out for themselves, sort of floating around in this world. 00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:22.800 And Woody Harrelson makes the mistake of thinking that everybody is still playing by the rules. 00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:25.199 It's a it's a fascinating movie. 00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:34.719 Yeah, there are people who follow rules, and there's the two characters, the Lou Ellen Moss and the Shigur Anton characters who just don't follow rules. 00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:36.320 They just do their own thing. 00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:44.159 And then you have the sheriff who's trying to enforce rules, but when there's no rules that anybody's playing by, how do you enforce a rule that doesn't exist? 00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:49.119 And it's this really like catch 22 of the whole thing of how does any of this really work out? 00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:51.199 Which, you know, it ultimately doesn't. 00:54:51.519 --> 00:54:52.320 Right, right. 00:54:52.559 --> 00:55:03.280 And I do I do there was one other thing I wanted to mention, which was that uh when when Shigure gets shot and then he's like dressing his wound in the motel room or whatever, it's an interesting moment. 00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:15.920 I just had this thought because he has his clothing is loose and weird, his haircut is so weird, like he looks like a big em he looks like a big guy, but he mostly just seemed creepy for the whole movie. 00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:26.320 And then we see him without his clothes on largely, and you see, I mean, Javier Bardem is a good looking guy, and like you you s sort of see him with like in a different context. 00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:28.079 He's very muscular. 00:55:28.239 --> 00:55:39.440 I mean, not like a bodybuilder, but it's like, oh, I thought of this as a freakish weirdo, and now you see him like with in a different setting, and it's like, oh, that's a I don't know. 00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:40.639 It's just different. 00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:47.840 I think it's interesting that they spend so much time with that scene of him just dressing his wound without clothes on or with the towel on. 00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:53.920 But I do think it it I don't know, it made me think about like how imposing a figure he is. 00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:57.199 He's also very meticulous in the way that he treats his wound. 00:55:57.360 --> 00:55:59.360 It's an interesting insight into him. 00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:09.440 And that scene is almost like the first time you get any glimpse into who he is as a person, rather than this like like archetype kind of guy of just he's a killer. 00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:15.440 But you actually get to know him like deeper down of like, oh, this is what he is when nobody's around, on his own, in his room. 00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:20.320 Like it's such an intimate portrayal of this character that you didn't have up until that point. 00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:23.920 And so I do think it changes your perspective on him a little bit. 00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:32.559 Like, oh, yeah, he would have some type of backstory, he would have some life, there's some reason for this, but then again, doesn't answer anything, you know? 00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:36.400 Like it's it sets it gives it all like it's going to, and then it doesn't. 00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:43.760 It doesn't answer anything, but I do think that's a scene that we would normally have for the main character. 00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:50.880 Yeah I think the like you might have a cutaway to see the the you know the bad guy, but usually the bad guy is doing something bad. 00:56:51.119 --> 00:57:02.000 The idea that like we're seeing him in a more positive light, or I mean, like uh like he doesn't look he looks good, he doesn't look bizarre, he he's like doing things. 00:57:02.239 --> 00:57:07.039 It's kind of like John McClain and Die Hard taking care of his wounds on his feet or whatever. 00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:15.840 But but I think this plays into the fact that the movie is really messing with us in terms of who is the main character and whose story, what story are we telling? 00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:18.800 Ah I think I think that's a really interesting part of this. 00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:19.599 Yeah. 00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:23.199 So is this a good film, would you say? 00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:25.440 And would you recommend it to people? 00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:28.880 I think this is one of the uh greatest films. 00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:33.760 I mean, I think this you gotta consider this a classic film, an all-time great film. 00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:35.840 I think it's a great work of cinema. 00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:39.760 I I don't don't think it's a typical type of movie. 00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:42.000 I don't think this film is for everybody. 00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:46.159 I think there are people who are just not going to like this and they're never going to like it. 00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:52.559 But like for me personally, I think it just this time especially, I'm like, man, this is just a masterpiece. 00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:54.239 I I just really enjoyed it. 00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:56.960 This I've watched it once, this is the second time.

00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.079 I thought it was so much better than uh even what I remember. 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:02.320 Yeah, I think it is a really great film. 00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:10.320 I think that it is violent, and uh, you know, and with some shocking violence, I would say that that might just disturb some people. 00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:19.599 I also think it's pretty bleak in its worldview, which I think we've discussed extensively, but uh I think that it's kind of a bummer of a movie in uh in some ways. 00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:24.639 Uh it's I mean, I don't know, it's a great it really gets your brain working. 00:58:24.719 --> 00:58:29.760 So I think that's a that's a fun experience, but I wouldn't say that it's a fun, enjoyable watch. 00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:38.880 And uh and I would say I think like I think children of men we talked about as something that works on a superficial level and works on a deeper level. 00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:46.960 I think this movie seems like it's gonna work on a superficial level, and then might be very disappointing if you really expected it to. 00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:50.480 And so I think you need to be ready for it to be a deeper movie than that. 00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:59.920 Yeah, the reward for this movie is how the themes play out, what you think about it, what does it mean, you just thinking about how this is all working together. 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:01.440 That's the reward of the film. 00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:05.519 It's not in the overarching story, it just doesn't work that way. 00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:09.440 How would you remake it if you had to? 00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:15.840 If the studios back the truck up and paid you, what would you do? 00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:23.760 All right, so but now if we had to remake this film, Hollywood Studios want us to do a family-friendly version, though country for old men. 00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:25.280 How would you approach that? 00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:33.599 Tough ask on this, because you're kind of wondering: is it a family-friendly version of the story or are we playing with these themes? 00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:36.719 These themes don't seem really family-friendly themes. 00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:38.639 It's very bleak outlook. 00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:43.440 Um, but my my attempt at this was you said it in high school. 00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:58.960 I was thinking you maybe do like a football team, and uh it's like you have the one side is the Shigura character, the other side is the Josh Berlin character, and it's these two people that are trying to get away with playing dirty or breaking the rules in some way. 00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:06.880 You have the sheriff as the referee, and you kind of institute this like like chaos, maybe this is a championship game or something. 01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:10.239 But like they're going back and forth, they're getting away with things. 01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:23.119 They're seemingly having these battles, maybe one's the

defensive, one's the offensive player, having these battles, these close calls, maybe there's like, you know, illegal moves here and there that the referee doesn't catch, and they're just getting away with it. 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:24.880 And then you're like, how are they getting away with this? 01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:26.800 Like, this is obviously dirty plays. 01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:32.000 And then the referee, funny, kind of narrows in on something, but never is able to land anything. 01:00:32.159 --> 01:00:33.840 He's like, I just don't have the evidence here. 01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:34.880 I just can't do it. 01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:36.480 You know, I can't make this call. 01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:43.280 And you kind of get that same unsatisfying ending, but you know, with it with a game, like, I don't know, who wins? 01:00:43.360 --> 01:00:49.519 Maybe that you don't even show the ending, you know, just to not give you a conclusion to this where it ends before the end of the game. 01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:51.199 You don't know how it's gonna happen. 01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:54.960 And it just leaves you with these, you're forced to think about these issues. 01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:56.320 All the bleakness. 01:00:56.719 --> 01:00:58.400 Yeah, all the bleakness of this. 01:00:58.719 --> 01:00:59.920 Maybe a little more. 01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:02.800 But even that, I don't I don't know who's watching that. 01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:05.519 Like Yeah, it's a lot of people. 01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:11.760 I knew a guy who wrestled and who uh like they checked your fingernails before like a wrestling tournament. 01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:22.480 Yeah, but but he would cut his fingernails at an angle so that they didn't look long, but like actually at the longest point, they were like little spiky blades. 01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:24.239 Yeah. 01:01:24.800 --> 01:01:28.960 Oh, that's the type of thing you get one you want in this type of film, like, oh, he's got this going. 01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:29.280 Yeah. 01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:30.559 Okay. 01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:31.599 Well, good. 01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:33.280 Good for you on that one. 01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:35.519 Uh that's that's a great family. 01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:38.079 Very bleak, just give up on life now, kids. 01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:48.159 But um my take was so was uh let's let's but I think it's a really good question of what is the film, and I think that's you know, what are you remaking here? 01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:56.320 I was thinking of let's say you stumbled upon a lot of money, and let's have more fun with that if we take that as the basic premise. 01:01:56.480 --> 01:02:01.199 Which is there's a movie by Danny Boyle called Millions, which is this premise. 01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:02.239 Oh, I haven't seen that one. 01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:13.360 Which is uh uh like two brothers find like a briefcase with a million pounds in it, but it's the day before, or it's like the week before England is gonna

discontinue the pound. 01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:22.159 And so it's kind of like we both have this money, and then we also have to figure out like how to do something with it with a with uh you know with the clock ticking. 01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:24.639 So it's a fun, that's a fun movie. 01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:26.239 So I was just like, let's do that. 01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:30.159 No, I had a slightly different take though, but kids find a lot of money. 01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:35.280 But what I think is an interesting part of No Country for Old Men is just these multiple storylines. 01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:51.119 And so I think the idea of we have a character or two characters who find this money, but then we are equally following somebody who lost the money uh and they are desperately trying to find it or find other solutions for what to do without the money. 01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:56.400 We're we're like following somebody who has been tasked with finding the money. 01:02:56.480 --> 01:03:03.679 Um, and like what are they there so we're both seeing the detective story of the person trying to figure out where the money is. 01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:07.360 We're seeing the kids who found the money and what they're gonna do with it. 01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:16.000 We're seeing the uh like the person who has lost the money, now them trying to figure out a plan B for what they're gonna do without the money. 01:03:16.159 --> 01:03:19.039 But this could all be happening like in a school environment. 01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:20.400 Like it's money that's gone. 01:03:20.559 --> 01:03:44.559 It doesn't need to be$2 million, it could be an amount that's substantial for the kids, but it but it then is just like we're following multiple different storylines, trying to figure out like with this central catalyst, different goals that different characters have revolving around that, which I I think trying to be less bleak, but I think sort of keep some of that narrative that's there in No Country for Old Men. 01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:52.320 Yeah, if you keep this that style of a story, which isn't kind of an unusual style of a story, and put that for kids to see, that could work. 01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:55.440 I think a little different view of things. 01:03:55.760 --> 01:03:56.239 Yeah. 01:03:56.559 --> 01:04:01.039 So what about if we were gonna do this no budget uh or ultra high budget? 01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:03.920 I think this this was a you know, it was a Hollywood movie. 01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:12.480 It wasn't like a super low budget indie, but it also is not set on a spaceship uh with you know with avatars or whatever. 01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:14.960 So you could go either way with this, I guess. 01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:16.000 But what was your take? 01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:19.280 I was trying to think of a way you could, you know, one room this thing. 01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:26.480 I don't know how you can do that, but um, there's a few scenes that I think could work to play out on the themes of this. 01:04:26.800 --> 01:05:05.039 And what I think you would do is you you have the Anton character and you have him, I think you could do that scene where the opening scene as is, and then you get him in like a room with the coin flip scene, a room with the person he's gonna kill, where you have these characters kind of talk to him and kind of explore the themes, like they're kind of you know talking through their lives, you don't have to do this, you get these conversations going, you can kind of expand on that a little bit, putting them in a room where you focus on that, and then you cut to the sheriff talking in the investigation in a room about things that are going on, and maybe have the sheriff narrate things. 01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:09.760 And then I think if you really wanted to cut down on this, you just get rid of the Josh Berlin character completely. 01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:22.960 And you just have like that's just a guy out there, we don't know anything about him, and you could really contain this to just have, you know, those two, if you just had their little scenes in their rooms, I think that cuts out a ton. 01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:31.599 And you could kind of play with the themes and really use the narrator or the sheriff to like give it more of a structure or explain what's going on. 01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:33.519 Maybe there's a way to get around that. 01:05:33.679 --> 01:05:34.079 I don't know. 01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:35.039 Yeah, yeah. 01:05:35.199 --> 01:05:36.400 I think I think that could work. 01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:37.280 I think that could work. 01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:46.320 It is a tricky, it's kind of a tricky level of movie because it doesn't have a lot of extra fat, but it's it but it's also not like a one location. 01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:53.199 So it's kind of there's not much to trim from it without really losing what you could have to lose a lot. 01:05:53.440 --> 01:05:53.679 Yeah. 01:05:53.920 --> 01:05:54.480 Yeah. 01:05:54.719 --> 01:06:05.679 I was thinking, I so I sort of gave up on this as like a realistic But I was thinking that gas station attendant, we get this whole glimpse into his life. 01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:13.519 And uh like because Shigura keeps asking him, and it's like, you inherited this gas station from your wife's father. 01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:24.320 And I'm like, what what if it is like a drama we're flashing back we're flashing between the house behind the gas station and the gas station? 01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:43.360 That guy becomes the main character, and and it's sort of this drama where it's him and his wife dealing through their marital relationship and the issues of related to we moved out here, I never wanted to move out here, but uh we did it because you know this is where you're from, and your father gave us this. 01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:47.440 Oh, well, we wouldn't have had to move out here if you'd been more successful at your other job. 01:06:47.679 -->

01:07:04.880 You have sort of this relationship drama between the two of them, which is not in this movie at all, but then we have this singular, we have maybe an even more extended scene or sequence with Shagur in the gas station, and we sort of see how it plays out. 01:07:05.039 --> 01:07:12.239 Like, how would this life play out for the man if he's now shaped by this Shagur encounter? 01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:17.519 And uh, like what how then does he go back to his wife and talk about their life? 01:07:17.599 --> 01:07:27.199 So if we set it up, here's what's going on in their relationship, now here's this Shigure thing that changes everything, then what happens in their relationship afterward? 01:07:27.440 --> 01:07:37.039 And it I mean, it would be a weird movie, but I think that it would be interesting to see we set up this idea, you should now live in a changed way. 01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:37.840 Will he? 01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:41.920 Would does this affect him at all, or is it just a weird little incident that he forgets about? 01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:44.400 And I think that could be a fun thing to explore. 01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:53.679 It's kind of like that scene in Fight Club where they're like today's gonna be the last day of your life, and it's like tomorrow is gonna be the best day of his life, because he got, you know, like seeing how that would change you. 01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:54.000 Yeah. 01:07:54.159 --> 01:07:54.320 Yeah. 01:07:54.400 --> 01:08:01.840 So you could do that with that that attendant, be like, okay, he goes back, he apologizes to his wife, they're gonna live, you know, he's changed things now, he appreciates things. 01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:02.239 I don't know. 01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:03.440 Yeah, that could be fun to play with. 01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:20.720 An hour later, something happens and it's like, oh, I knew I had this new lease on life, but do I still when like I I think you I think it could be like if you if you take this and then you bring in like Cassavetis and you make it more just like a real relationship drama, that could be interesting. 01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:21.920 That could be it. 01:08:22.159 --> 01:08:27.279 All right, but now what about a TV series, either an ongoing series or a like a 10-part Netflix? 01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:28.319 What would you do with this? 01:08:28.720 --> 01:08:44.560 This feels like you could do I know they did Fargo as a TV series, loosely based on Fargo, the movie, which is Cohen Brothers did, or it reminds it's reminded me in ways of like um the true detective one with uh also with Woody Harrelson and that, but like where you do a season on this story. 01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:49.600 Like the story is this season, it's in this place, and then like the next season you could kind of keep. 01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:51.600 I don't know, maybe you don't have the sheriff retire. 01:08:51.680 --> 01:09:02.720 Maybe the next season is the same sheriff but a different story with different characters you bring in, um, and like keep the setting, because I like that setting in like is it East Texas, like on that border. 01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:04.399 There's so much that could go on there. 01:09:04.479 --> 01:09:12.159 You have all this kind of like wilderness to explore, all these things that could happen, you could get away with, especially the time being 1980. 01:09:12.319 --> 01:09:20.079 You don't have the cell phones, you do have some modern stuff, but like it's a really fun time to play with and investigation and looking into things. 01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:26.640 So I I would pitch it as kind of like one season per story, and then you just do the whole whole season around. 01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:32.159 I think you could, you know, there's not a lot of fat in this film, but you could explore more of these characters and get more out of it. 01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:34.000 So yeah, yeah. 01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:40.479 I was thinking similarly, not like a like a crazy spin-off, but just expanding this story. 01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:51.199 I think there's so much like I would love to have four episodes with Woody Harrelson characters still alive before he, you know, and at the tenth episode he dies or something like that. 01:09:51.359 --> 01:10:00.239 But like I think you could explore more of these, and there's so many different storylines in the film that are just hinted at or that are just we see a scene or two of. 01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:02.319 I think you could just expand that. 01:10:02.479 --> 01:10:09.199 We could see like it doesn't need to be one suspenseful two-hour block, it can be expanded over more time. 01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:10.960 I think that could be really strong. 01:10:11.199 --> 01:10:22.319 I was thinking for season two, like, we have this idea that if we keep Shigur alive and still working, like he because he's been hired to do this job. 01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:23.920 Who was he hired by in the past? 01:10:24.079 --> 01:10:25.680 Who's he gonna be hired by next? 01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:33.600 And how does he bring that uh, you know, his particular way of doing business to whatever that circumstance is? 01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:43.920 So I thought that could be an interesting through line, and maybe less than like clearly he's not the main character, but he's gonna be the through line character. 01:10:44.079 --> 01:10:52.479 And then for this season we're following Moss, but next season we'll be following somebody else, but always in in light of Shagur. 01:10:53.279 --> 01:10:59.039 And it's like the Shigur show, is like he's the character, and just like seeing what he's gonna do next. 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:01.279 Yeah, that's a good name for it, the Shigur show. 01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:02.399 The Shigur Show. 01:11:02.479 --> 01:11:04.079 Apparently, that was his own hair. 01:11:04.159 --> 01:11:05.359 He grew his hair out like that. 01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:06.560 Oh, is that for real? 01:11:06.800 -->

01:11:07.359 Yeah. 01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:11.600 I told my wife, I'm like, it's Josh Brolin, it's Javier Bardem. 01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:12.720 It's like, oh, I'm interested. 01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:15.920 He's like, oh, that does not look like the Javier Bardem. 01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:18.079 That's not the Javier Bardem I was interested in. 01:11:18.399 --> 01:11:19.840 That's not the one she's interested in, yeah. 01:11:19.920 --> 01:11:21.760 That haircut really does a number on him. 01:11:22.159 --> 01:11:26.399 It's amazing how much that uh that that throws things off there. 01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:26.720 Yeah. 01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:29.920 And and that was how I think most Americans got introduced to him. 01:11:30.079 --> 01:11:33.760 So I don't think that's like his like intro into the world for America. 01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:35.119 You're like, oh, who's this guy? 01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:37.359 Wait, Javier Bardem is a heartthrob? 01:11:37.600 --> 01:11:37.840 What? 01:11:37.920 --> 01:11:38.479 He's what? 01:11:38.720 --> 01:11:38.880 Okay. 01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:39.760 I don't see it. 01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:40.079 Yeah. 01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:46.479 But um uh I and I don't think Anton Shigur hair would be, but I guess he's got more range than that. 01:11:46.720 --> 01:11:49.760 Um just another thing this movie does not give us an answer to. 01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:52.239 Just it's more questions than answers. 01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:56.800 I do he's playing by his own rules, even at the barber. 01:11:57.119 --> 01:11:58.159 Even at the barber, yeah. 01:11:58.399 --> 01:11:59.039 Yeah. 01:11:59.359 --> 01:11:59.840 All right. 01:11:59.920 --> 01:12:01.600 Well, final verdict. 01:12:01.760 --> 01:12:04.720 Would any of those be better than the movie, would you say? 01:12:05.199 --> 01:12:05.520 No. 01:12:05.680 --> 01:12:08.560 I I think it'd be really tough to do this movie in any other way. 01:12:08.720 --> 01:12:12.880 Even if somebody else were to take this up and be like, I'm gonna remake this, keep it the same story. 01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:15.600 I don't know if you don't have the Cohen Brothers, you don't have these people. 01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:18.079 This feels like a really hard thing to remake. 01:12:18.319 --> 01:12:18.640 Yeah. 01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:29.039 And I even think the TV show, I'd love to see those storylines, but I think you would miss the uh kind of the tone of it, the feeling themes of it, the tone of it. 01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:31.680 I think I think you would miss if you change it to a TV show. 01:12:31.840 --> 01:12:34.079 So I think this really is the best version of it. 01:12:34.239 --> 01:12:35.760 I think it's a great film. 01:12:36.079 --> 01:12:46.560 I would recommend it to people I've I've already gone over my caveats on who I'd rema recommend it to, but I think I think if it sounds interesting to you, I definitely think it's one you gotta see. 01:12:49.760 --> 01:12:51.039 All right, and there we have it. 01:12:51.199 --> 01:12:54.800 Thank you for joining us uh for this week of How to Make Films and Influence People. 01:12:54.880 --> 01:12:58.079 Check us out at how to make films podcast.com and we'll see you next time.