บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Redefining Roofing Resilience for a Changing World

Restore Roofing and our sister company in Wineco Construction. we're unlimited general contractors on both companies and roofing is my main background. Been in roofing for over thirty years and have started and and kept a great relationship with EnviroShape. Really, really enjoy installing their product. Feel like they make a great product that's changing the roofing industry for sure. And look forward to the future and what roofing's happening. There's some great things happening in roofing where I think the the quality levels are growing. So I think the environment's definitely gonna be part of that. So it really is gonna be a part of that the conversation of the changing products and what you need. So thank you for being here today. so important that this is exactly what we want to hear from the field. And to that point, we also have My friend Mark here from Vancouver. Mark, welcome to the show. Can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your company? Yes, thank you. Mark Barry here from Vancouver, Canada. we started actually with EnvironShake about 18 years ago. and it's just been a a great run ever since. my my son now has joined the company, so we're family owned business. And you know, never never look back. It's been been a great ride. I am so excited. I and I'm really excited about you and Nick being here. We got both coasts covered, all the extreme weather that's going on, so we're gonna have a a great conversation moving forward. And of course, I am s always so happy to have John Kenny back on our panel, back on coffee conversations. John. Thank you for being here. Can you introduce yourself and tell us about your company? Sure. Well, first of all, it's always a pleasure to be on one of our conversations. So I'm happy to be back. I'm John Kenny. I don't currently own Cotney Consulting Group, but I came from the background of 45 years in the roofing industry as a contractor. So that's where I bring my perspective. And currently today, you know, what I work with is roofing contractors on the business consulting side, operations, estimating. training and of course business pers performance. So I think my perspective today is gonna be from that contractor side and how we take all this information and turn it into a roof that's selected correctly, honestly and installed and performs with a homeowner. So that's where I'm coming come from today for us all. Yeah. Yeah. It's I I I'm I'm just really excited about all this. And really it all comes down to these beautiful roofs. And what we see here, and these are roofs from Mark and from Nick and from Brad, really showing the beauty of EnvironmentShake. But really what we want to talk about is how important these roofs are to protecting the buildings. That's what it's all about, is that protection. And so we're going to get started and really look at the big picture. So I want to talk about roofing resiliency. and how that's being redefined, because a lot of things ha are changing

in not only our industry, but in the world, in building, in weather, the whole nine yards. So, Brad, I'm gonna start with you. What are some of the big changes you've seen in your career when it comes to the resiliency of roofing and those performance products? I've seen so many changes over the years. I think fire is definitely one of the big ones that's the hot topic these days. no pun intended. but a lot of big changes in and it's every every day it's almost a new area is starting to tackle it. I know I just saw some posts in Colorado where there's different ordinance coming out where the the insurance companies are pushing homeowners to not have any seat or shake anymore. And they're very concerned about these wildfire areas. Yeah. It it really we are, it's just there's so much that we have to think about, especially with as we're, installing roofs, are these gonna last? Can they can can they withstand the elements? Nick, what are you seeing in the Carolinas? So I I'm along with Brad, I see a lot of issues with insurance companies wanting to cancel their their policies because of having real cedar, because of the fire danger. we're not as bad as out in Colorado, but we are our population is growing and becoming more dense and they're getting, you know, more buildings close to each other. So the fire concern is growing out here just like it is with Colorado. and then like with, you know, the the problem with that too is homeowners are learning that, you know, the quality and longevity of real cedar does is stop there, like these composite products. So now that we're learning the technologies that EnviroShake and other companies are learning, they're learning that they can get a product that'll last much longer and that'll be worth the money that they're going to spend. Because, and I don't know what it's like in the other parts of the country, but here in North Carolina, it seems that, these composite companies of Environosh, they're coming in a better price point than real cedar in their products lasting five to six times as long. So wow. That is that is that is a change. And these Technology is a big part of this, right? We as our technology is growing so fast. Mark, what are you seeing on the West Coast when it comes to kind of the change in the changes in what consumers are looking for when it comes to roofing resiliency? Yeah. I mean the the the weather demands today and the risks are are are changing all the time. I mean, as Brad mentioned, you know, you got fires, we've got water, it rains quite a bit on on the on the West Coast. you know, knew, you know, what what what's a atmospheric river? I mean, it's just getting crazy, right? We we've had rain, but now it's just intense amount of waters that that hit hit our our cities, our our roofs. And, you know, it it it it could be stressful, but with the system that we put with an environhic roof being that, you know, everything is peeling stuck and then we apply the the environhic after that. It's it's really a bulletproof. So with all these changes and, you know, the intense weather that we have, it it's comforting. Yeah. Yeah, I would I'd like to jump on also what Nick said there about the the cedar and the young growth trees that are used now for your cedar shakes and your cedar shingles. they just they're too young. They're not old, they're not hard wood enough to to last in the climates, especially as humidity changes, like I'm sharing are very a lot of humidity in your area, a lot of humidity where I live, and they're only lasting ten years and then they gotta be replaced, let alone all the treatment that has to happen every year from there. And Mark, you could probably speak to that 'cause you're right in where the cedar would be cut down and and brought to market. Yeah, and I'll add to that, Brad, with that being on top of that, what you said about treating, you know, most the ninety five percent of the majority they put cedar shake on and they don't do the treatments that's required to make that cedar last. So knowing that they're gonna put a roof on that mimic cedar, the look of it, the elegance of it, but no no maintenance required, that changes the whole game for them, for those homeowners. Yeah. Yeah. I and I do think again, you know, as we look at how things are changing in our environment and to to your point, Brad, and just the resources and where they're coming from and and how that's working, it is it things are changing. John, I would love for you to kind of talk a little bit because we're you know, we're talking about the resiliency of products and you are seeing this across the country, but especially in Florida, where insurance companies are also playing a huge part. on determining that, what are you seeing from across on the resiliency of the demands? Sure. Well, you know, I I think this got to kind of back up just a little bit. I think probably twenty years ago, as as quickly as twenty years ago, the main question was, does the roof meet code and can it keep water out? Right? We had to worry about two things. You know, will it keep water out and does it meet the code? And I think today what we're starting to ask is, which I agree with that we should be asking, is how will that roof perform? after years of heat, wind, hail, storms and other exposure, because these things continually come and pound every single year. And yeah, you're right. In Florida, maybe we get a year without a major storm, but we only know it's around the corner. So I I think when I think about resilience to me, thinking about it on that big picture zone, and I travel a lot all over the country. So I speak to a lot of different contractors and see the marketplaces. I think so to me resilience means how well that roof's going to continue to perform. its job after it's been challenged. So I think the I think the industry's moving that way. And more importantly, I think the consumers are starting to move that way. And for sure you brought

up insurance companies. They're absolutely moving that way. They w do not want to be replacing roofs. And I think the industry needs to wake up to that fact that it the insurance company is really starting to drive where we're going. You know, and I want to kind of hit on that too because J John, what you just said, and I'm gonna start back with you because you really made me think about some things too, is that I just think about the thirty years I've been in the roofing industry and to your point, what was important thirty years ago and what's important today, I don't think, you know, yes, I know everything goes in cycles and we you can have all kinds of discussions on that, but when I think about the heat domes that have been over the West Coast, 116 degrees, you know, through up and down Oregon up to Mark to you in Vancouver when you go from that extreme to you know we're starting to see hail storms which we've never seen before, wildfires, and then this year alone, there have been more hurricanes in the Pacific Ocean than there has been in the Atlantic Ocean. it's just crazy. So, John, as you're looking at all these extreme weather, how are contractors dealing with that? And you know, because roofing products to go from extremes of a heat dome to, you know, snow in this week ha is gonna start hitting in the Pacific Northwest, how are they dealing with that? Well, you you you brought up some great points. You're you're dealing your workforce is dealing with conditions that they've never had a dealt with. Look, I started up on the roofs in the seventies. So I if you want to talk about weather patterns and understanding heat zones and all that, I we've we've all been through it. But what you're seeing today is a lot more frequency and a lot more extremes. It's not that the weather's changed where we're seeing a brand new storm that we've never seen before. It's where it's hitting, how it's hitting, how it goes. So I I think So how the climate is affecting aging and different things on that is that your UV affect long term performance. And we're looking at this from a standpoint of why that's so important because every area is getting more sun and more extreme winds than we've had on a consistent basis. That's the key. People look at this as, you know, we've always had weather. Well, yeah, that's that's a pretty that's a bold statement that's actually true. We've always had weather. But we don't have the same patterns that we're experiencing today. So I think we need to get away from selecting systems, which I'm starting to see even from the consumer side on appearance and initial cost, and we need they're being more geographically purchased. And where that ties into all this in your question for sure, Heidi, is we're seeing weather in areas that only other parts of the country got, and now they're starting to become more mainstream. almost in every part. So I think that's that's a big reason why we're starting to consider this as a new way of the industry moving. It's not that it's new, but it's a new way of accepting it. And and honestly, last thing I'll say on this and I'll leave it up to the rest of group is what I'm really seeing from all consumers, whether it be residential or commercial for that matter, it doesn't really matter on this point. They're looking for longevity. They want that better return on investment. And they want to know that what they have is being protected. And it always drove me crazy that a roofing system was never put in the forefront of protecting a building when you look at it as that's why some people call it the fifth wall, which I think it's one of the most important walls, because without that, everything else fails. So I think people are starting to move in that direction. And they're seeing that. Yeah, I I I agree. So Nick, I wanna kinda go to you. the Carolinas has seen weather that has just been devastating over the last couple of years. As you were having these conversations with your customers and your homeowners, what are some of the things that you were talking about to them about the risks of making these decisions for their roofs? So yeah, it's funny you bring that up because as John was speaking, he I thought, you know, he's on point with that a hundred percent. whether, you know, I was telling somebody the other day that it seems like we get more weather in the last five years than I ever remembered my whole entire life. you know, a couple years ago we had Hurricane Helene come through here. I'm only an hour away from Asheville. It was devastated. It was an absolute national destructive place up there. And I mean it was just disastrous. And so yeah, I mean I don't know what's different. I think it's maybe because, of di a lot of different components that's making the weather patterns act differently. But, they are. We have we we've had another hurricane this year again already. the winds are just unreal. We've had some crazy rainstorms that's brought flooding and it's just it seems like it's constant month after month for us that we've been facing those things. And to your to your question, I think that what I've been telling my whole owners is, if you're going to spend this kind of money, put your put your finances into something that will weather these storms. the old the the the days of the 70s and 80s where asphalt shingles was pretty much the predominant roofing going on. And I know that that's going to keep on going, but these higher end clients are wanting something that's going to be, you know, put on the roof that they're not worried about the hundred mile an hour lens pulling the the roof off. And I've always I I talk to my customers and say, it's funny that technology is in our sound systems and our houses to make our TV sound better. Or, we're trying to put th certain things in our homes to cook easier or whatever we do, but we're not adding technology to the most important component of a home. And that's if you don't keep

your house dry, it doesn't matter what you got inside of it. And it's funny how the homeowners seem to put the roofing last when it should be probably the most important part of building a house. So that's what I usually deal with that on that. The the roof always gets value engineered. Yes, that is correct. So true. Yeah. We want the granny kitchen top, but yeah, right. Don't worry about that roof. But and and and I love the fact, you know, you can you can pay tons of money for all this technology in your ho home, but if water gets into that technology, it's fried. It's not gonna work. And so Where do you start, right? That that's really what it comes down to. Mark, again, I'm gonna kinda go, you know, the West Coast has dealt with more wildfires than I mean, I've lived there my whole life. So we're talking decades and decades. I've never seen anything like this. Talk about how you the conversations you're having with your customers about the risks of what's going on. Yeah, I mean, it it's become, you know, a thing, you know, ten years ago. Forest fires were, you would hear about it, it would be far away, it wouldn't be, and now today, it it's not, you know, if we're gonna get forest fires this year, it's when. So it's changed. it's it's it's extreme. And you know, with an environhic roof, you have that A one fire rating, which is is a tremendous advantage for some of the areas like Whistler, Kelowna, which is in the interior of of of BC, where we see, wildfires every single year now. So having that security and that a fire rating is is is crucial. I mean, it's not just, you know, when a fire forest fire happens, it could be five miles away and those ambers are going to be traveling and landing on what? Your roof. So it's it's definitely one of the main features that, you know, I speak with my clients. what you're gonna put wood on your roof? I mean, it's we're not in the stone age anymore. And and to to speak on that, you if you have a dry cedar roof, right, and you have embers, that's just gonna light up. Right. Correct. Yeah. There's in The technology has come so far with the Class A fire ratings and with the composites, the fact that you don't have to have the chemicals and everything in order to create that class A. Yeah. Brad, maybe talk a little bit about that. Just the and and and I would love you to take that and then also kind of how insurance is playing into this. Yeah, insurance is a big I was thinking about that the whole time we were kind of going east coast, west coast and talking about atmospheric rivers and climate changes that certain part of the countries see now that they never seen before, insurance companies are on top of that and they're going to continue to force homeowners to have proje products with longevity to it. I believe and and John, you can probably confirm this, but in in Texas now and in some parts of Florida, right, they're they're doing higher deductibles if you don't have a durable, long lasting roof. Because insurance companies are just tired of having to re-roof all the time from from these storms getting bigger and bigger. but to speak on to the the class A factor, I think the the big thing I always try to paint the picture is if you picture those embers coming across and and they catch on the cedar shake and it and it lights up like a matchbox. Whereas with a composite like a viral shake, when those embers hit, right, it's just going to smolder, right? And and we've done fire tests and there's videos out there on YouTube you can see that where the the the the embers will just smolder, right? They're not catching and then catching onto the next shake and the next shake and the next shake. They're just calming down in a way. And that's the big difference with the the new technologies. Yeah. And you know, it it was interesting too, and I want to before we go too far, because I really want to get to insurance and this actually is this question will lead to more conversations in insurance, but I don't want to leave out our Midwest people. And I think one of the things that, I I I mentioned a little bit earlier, and Brad, maybe you can also, address this is the fact that the UV, and actually John talked about this too, the UV is so much more extreme than it's ever been. And that roofing products that cannot handle that UV and then get hit by hail and by the sudden shifts in temperatures, that's a real problem too. Right, I'm gonna take that too. You want me to go first? Yeah. it just eats it up. That UV is eating it up, and we see it in California and it's going to expand where you have the CRC, the Cool Roof Rating Council, and cool roofs are very huge in California. And I think you're gonna see it grow from there. In Viral Shake itself, we have Cool Roof product where we make some changes to that the formula, get a better solar reflectivity in there. And then so you got a cool roof rated product. And that's that's helping protect the integrity of your roof, right? Is is the better reflectivity of those solar rays. I was once again paint the picture. It's like a sunblock, like you put on your skin, where those UV rays are attacking your roof twenty four seven all the time and and it's just there to protect it. where other like asphalt is just gonna be eaten up a whole lot quicker the more UV rays are are hitting it. Yeah, as as you're l as we're all talking about resiliency of the r of the roofing products, it is it is it is really the cycle, right? It's the UV, then it's the little cracks that get in there, and then maybe it's the water getting in, and then it's the freeze thaw, and then it get hits by high winds or it gets hit by hail. and or it get you know, as we talked about fire too. so Nick, I am really interested what you, you know You've gone through a lot of probably insurance claims from high wind. What are you seeing around insurance with the roofing products? So yeah. So insurance, it's a funny thing. You know we we have the

hailstorms, we have the wind storms, we have the hurricanes, we have the major rains. And it's funny because of as soon as that happens, all of us home based roofers are like, here comes the storm chasers. And and it just becomes it comes it becomes a show. And and then and it and it hurts us roofers that care about our hometown and our base where we live because you know it makes people distrust us ones that are trying to do it for high quality. so you know, and it's a lot of what Brad said about the insurance, they're actually wanting to cancel here over Cedar Shake. I replaced a roof about a two years ago. She had a brand new Cedar Shake roof. And I'm talking this was an eight million dollar house. And the insurance company was like, you either replaced that or were completely canceling your insurance policy. So she took a one-year-old roof, tore it off, and had to put another roof on. So and again, we know that we know that composites are based around a certain base client. we know that asphalt shingles are going to keep going. But we know also as us, ones that focus more on the higher end stuff, the longevity stuff, we know that that is a continuous cycle that's gonna keep running. And I believe that I agree with the the problems with insurance raising premiums because they know that this is going to be something that's gonna have to continue to be replaced over time. Yeah, it's it's it's funny because we purchased our house here five years ago. and of course the roof ha had an old cedar roof on it and had to be changed and being in the business, I was gonna change it this year and were too busy, so went to next year. And my insurance company who had been with for twenty five years, said, you know, y your cedar roof that you have You're gonna have to change it. And I said, Okay, no problem. We'll change it. That became another year because again we were too busy to do my house. And what had happened was they took away the insurance coverage period for for the house and and the roof. And I said, You realize that we're a roofing company and you know, I the roof will probably hold another day. Nope. They took away our insurance. And then I said, okay, I'll self-insurance. If something happens, we'll fix it. and they took away our insurance and I said, Well, what's my credit? Nothing. So they took away the liability, but then there was no credit. And so eventually, obviously that that year we changed and I put environh on on my personal house. Wow. And I and I would like to add something that just kind of hit my mind as Mark was speaking. Let's don't take away the fact too that not only does it replace cedar, but it replaced other engineered roofs as well, heavy slate and clay tile and different things like that, which takes away a large problem because somebody needs a high quality roof put on a building that has real slate on it. They can't, or or even another one, if a if a high-end client buys a, a really nice house and they want to put a long standing lasting roof on something, but they don't want the look of cedar. You have the Enviro slate, and that is an option because their house might not be built engineered to be able to handle the weight of the real slate and the clay tile, et cetera. So that option there as well, to be able to deal with the insurance problems on that side of things is too, because the slate is, it's a 15% loss about every year. So they're having to come constantly prepare that real slate. Yeah, it y and having done this, been in this industry for a long time, there was insurance companies, we c you know, manufacturers kept talking to them and saying, Hey, this is what we should be looking at for resiliency. This is what we should be looking at for resiliency. It just takes a long time for big corporations, big industries to change, but they've changed. And John, you have seen this. you and I have both seen this that it's gone from, hey, we'll give you a discount on your homeowner's insurance if you use these products to we're gonna just charge you more if you don't, or we're gonna cancel. and it's it's everywhere. So, John, what are you seeing along that lines? Well, so this is a good one 'cause I get to speak of this as a homeowner in Florida and I also get to speak of it as an industry professional. So definitely insurance is no longer sitting outside of roofing decisions. So everyone has to understand that it doesn't matter where you live anywhere anymore, insurance is driving the conversation. So, for example, I can give you personal experience of people I know, and also I don't have that problem because I went to a high resilience roofing. In Florida, if you have a shingle roof, you cannot have insurance coverage on that, especially if you're in the high wind areas. So the big problem with that. is they will delete your coverage for the roofing, but if you don't read the fine print when you have a storm, you have given up all your rights of claim for water damage with inside your whole entire structure if the storm hits. Now from a cost standpoint, you're correct, there's d discounts, they're gone. Our homeowners insurance has doubled every year for the last five years. And I've never had a claim and I've been living here for 26 years and never had a claim. So it doesn't matter. The other thing I just want to make everyone aware of is the building codes have changed. You may not be updated in your state yet, but shingles are now part of the building code for wind uplift requirements, which that means that's giving a grade out to insurance companies because no no picking on shingle companies, but we all know you cannot have enhanced perimeters and corners within shingles. They're just not made that way. The other issue is by having these, the new testing has come out that's in the building codes now, that on the low steep slope roofs All exterior perimeters are considered corners and the new designs. So wind uplift hasn't decreased, it's increased

even more. So I I think from a homeowner, you need to bring the homeowner in on this and they need to actually talk to their insurance company because I think it's going to help the sale of putting on better roofs. Because what's the worst thing that I've seen happen is somebody go and spend twenty, thirty thousand dollars to put on a certain type of roof and then find out at renewal time. The insurance company will not insure it. That's horrible, but that's the way things are moving. And it's not just in Florida. It's not just in Texas. I'm seeing this when I've been in the Midwest, right? I I've been in the northern part of the South. I've been all over in the last twelve months, and everybody's saying the same thing. Yeah, the law may not be here yet, but the insurance carriers are the ones that are driving it regardless. We can't I I wanna remind everybody if you have questions, this is great information for your business, for what's going on out there and what you need to look at. So if you have questions, please put those either in the chat or the QA and we'll be monitoring that. So we definitely want to hear your thoughts. I you know, one of the things that we have seen, and John, thank you. You took us right into building codes and what's happening. So we have Wooy with the wildland urban interface. We have the wildfire prepared home. We also have so many other things. But then we do have where the insurance companies through the IBHS have put together programs like Fortified, where Fortified ha is helping to build homes that the insurance companies that are kind of bringing contractors and insurance companies together on agreeing what exactly is a high performance resilient roof. But Brad, can you talk a little bit? You're very involved with a lot of these different groups, wooy and different things. What you're seeing from that side of it. Before I before I segue in that, I would want to touch on what John also just said there was it gave me I was just picturing if you're sitting with the homeowner as a contractor and you're sitting in the kitchen and you're going through all these different options, that is a great point with the insurance. let's let's open up your insurance policy and see what it says and s because People don't read the fine print. They don't know what they have covered or don't have covered. So that is a great great point to to to have, especially as you're trying to pitch the value engineered purpose of these of these composite roofs, like in viral shake. one one note on that, Brad, I will say for everybody out there, In certain states you can't talk about the But you can't. okay. You can't talk about your insurance, but what you can say is go check your insurance and then let's talk. So just in every state's different. It's hard telling. But just want to jump in one last thing on that, if I could. Better than that, what I recommend, and I've d I've done myself, I would recommend that not just open up your policy, not just you talk to them. Tell your agent what you want to do. Say this is what I'm looking at. You talk to my insurance company for me and make sure I'm gonna be covered when this is done. That's the key to make sure they don't have the way out. So I just wanted to throw that in there. That's great. So true. Sorry, Brad. Okay. We both jumped in there. Great points. Great points. Jump on the fortified and wooy. yeah, yeah, we've been we've been fortified. The fortified program I really like because their whole goal is to make that building, the whole structure, not just the roof, but the whole structure. that it can withstand storms. I know it's very popular East Coast or Southeast Coast, where you where you get your big hurricanes. And I'm sure it's going to grow now. Like you mentioned about the Pacific Coast being hit with more hurricanes this year versus the East Coast. a fortified program should grow because it's it's made to to have the strongest security for your home when it comes to your exterior building products and your roofing. And same with Wooy, like I mentioned before how every state is changing and and every county is has new rules, especially if you're in a urban w wildlife area. I've seen a lot in Colorado this year where different areas they had the big fire in Ospen this year and now different counties are starting to say, no, you have to follow the Wu Wee protocol and the and the products that that we're approving like EnvironShake. Yeah. It's really I mean we are seeing so much. Nick You have have you participated with fortified roofs? Yes. I am very much for fortified. unfortunately, we don't get the tax breaks in the part of North Carolina that I'm in. But years ago I had an office at the coast of North Carolina and we were a fortified installer. you know, when it first came around, all of us old crabby roofers, you know, we we don't like nothing new until we actually prove. And I first I was like, man, what is this? But when I actually went through the fortified training, I was like, this is an awesome way to install. So I adopted those installation practices and I actually try to sell my customers on the quality of that install. Not, you know, it if you're in the areas where they get the tax breaks, it gets it's a great benefit to be able to say, Hey, you know, you're going to get a seven or eight thousand dollar break because of doing this. And that's a big sale tactic, but For me, it's more of like this this type of installation is is the best in my opinion. So for example, we we was back then when I learnt the fortified, we would do the high temperature ice and water shield as our t and underlayment for the entire roof. Well, I adopted that and I I kind of try to upsell my customer and say, look, this is more expensive, but it's worth doing because it's it's higher quality. So yes, I I believe that those fortified practices are top notch and probably the way that the the roofing industry should go in general, in my

opinion. It is i w we are seeing it. And now Mark, Fortified hasn't hit out there yet, but you are seeing a lot of the building codes and everything that's going along with Brazil a stronger roofs, right? Correct, yeah. And you know, touching on on that, what Nick was saying is you know, in Bioshake since I've been installing with them is always upping it every year, it seems or couple years, you know, w we apply the environ shield, which is a peel and stick that goes on the entirety of the the the roof. We will sheet with plywood, ply peel and stick the environment and then nail the envioshake to the plywood so that layer that's between the the environoshake and the plywood gets penetrated with all the nails. and then, you know, first day that you've got si you know, fifteen, sixteen degrees, it'll seal every nail. It'll be an you know, another barrier, if you wish, underneath the environment shake. should you have a an extreme wind where side wind would would go, it could travel underneath, it would hit that environment shield and literally go right down the the roof. into the gutter. So all these barriers and systems that EnvironShake implements just makes it kind of a like a a certified that Nick was saying we don't have that here, but the system that we up you know apply is is pretty much bulletproof. Well well hail proof, windproof, waterproof. We haven't tested bullets yet. Yeah right So it it's it's it's encouraging because again another up that we've seen from EnvironShake is we're using galvanized nails which are hot dipt way better c quality than you would do on an asphalt normal shingle nail. And now we've and you know, asked and implemented stainless steel fasteners. So again, it's just that whole envelope package that environShake you know makes us as a contractor apply and do is again just an another level up that you know we keep seeing from the manufacturer that that implements on us. And to touch on that, I think as as the as the industry changes and you have these different programs like Fortified, then yet manufacturers will make those same changes. we specify ring shank nails specifically, because that 180 mile per hour wind rating, that's how it's done. And and so when when you put an environment shake roof on, it's very important to follow those those standards because all that Miami Day testing is done that way. So it has to be installed that way. And it's very important and like I said with fortified those practices then evolve into the manufacturing suggestions. it's and I I wanna Mark and I wanna go back to you on something that I just thought of. And you what? I'm gonna apologize because this wasn't on our questions, but I think it's so interesting too, is we have a whole new generation of workforce coming up. So now we are looking at these installations. And Mark, as you were describing that, that just seems to make sense. What are you hearing back from your crews as they are installing these premium products and just

it seems to me like there would be a pride in that. It it it's it's a really good point. And I I say this all the time. it it's such a a beautiful, you know, aesthetically but looking roof and and customers, you know, the wow. I mean, that's we get it every single time people see their their roof for the first time and they go, Wow. and and but to touch on you know, the the crews, there there is a lot of pride because, you know, you could put a mediocre product on and it's it's a mediocre. But when you walk away from an EnvioShake roof, it's just the process and and the care that we, you know, put in and and the the out you know the final look gives them just an amazing pride when you walk away. I love that. Nick, what do you hear from your crews? Same, this is our art. you know, and it's funny you hear you hear people make fun of you if you're a construction worker or a roof or whatever, and it's say that, you know, this is my this is my I take pride in this is this is my art. but you know, we're all artists in what we do if we love what we do and w and I do. I love construction. I love doing it since since I was a kid. And, the cleanliness of what that looks like when that roof is installed versus and I I'm not throwing off on any other type of roofing, but you know, you put a cedar shake roof on and in one month it looks gray and discolored and ugly. And, you know, you put this brand new, shiny, beautiful environment shake on and it's like it's good straight lines. It's, you know, it's it's just good workmanship and you as a roofer or a construction worker, you stand back and it's kinda like a sense of like I done that, And I see my guys light up when they get one done, especially some really nice presti prestigious building. And it's like it's nice to see smile because that, we're taking for granted. we're doing something it's funny to me because when COVID came around, I thought, man, we are we're in trouble. We're gonna go out of business. and, you know, the government made us a priority it just has to keep going. And my my business quadrupled during COVID, which I thought I would go out of business. And you know, but it was same, same here. It it made us understand like, you know, roofers and construction workers are taken for granted in society. But if we didn't have them, we wouldn't be where we're at. So, you know, it's just good to see them guys appreciated for what they do. I love that. I love that. It's it becomes the culture of your business. Of providing this resilient, performing long term roofing and yeah, I d I I it I just it was great. So okay, that's the way it used to be, right? But if you look at slate roofs in Europe, right? And and that's the way it used to be. And it's hopefully that starts coming back where people look at these products and and think longevity and that it's art and it's all about durability. It's not just about putting a product on that's gonna be replaced in ten, fifteen years. You could go into hours of discussion on this, but you look at you look at Rome and what we build in Rome and look at it that as and everybody travels there to see that as an artwork and you remember that's construction. And you know, th our production society is taking away what we're doing and and leaving the quality. So like creating a quality products that's gonna last and be pretty for many years, that's just That's taking pride in something that is this day, then time being lost. Yeah. That is so great. Brad, we have a question for you. And thank you so what so much. It says, I would be interested in learning more about EnviroShake. How do HOAs approve EnviroShake? And is it being calmly applied in Georgia? And then we have an email address for you to follow up. But Brad, how is it looking in Georgia and how are you doing with HOAs? I was actually just in Georgia back in September. And I do see a lot of especially around all those lake, those lake communities where they have to deal with moss and mildew and humidity. And so that's where products like ours, I great. and so for HOAs, typically To get approval, we start the whole sales process where we send a sample to the homeowner and then we try to get in front of the HOA where we can come down and do a meeting in front of the HOA. We could do it virtually. and then usually the next step would be like a little mock-up, because every HOA, especially these high end HOAs, have like a little guard shack in the front or maybe something outside the clubhouse, and then you do a little mock-up. So we always like to say with a viral shake, the beauty of it is that it weathers naturally. So it's going to look like a cedar shake is supposed to look. So it does get a nice matte finish. It's not gonna have that plastic look all the time. It's going to have a nice matte beautiful finish. And so definitely do a mock-up. Then the the HOA usually approves everything from there. So there's a bit of a process, but yeah, we do it every every day in every community. So thank you. Yeah, and great question. Great question because Once you're in with the HOAs too, and there's so many HOAs across the country that did have traditional cedar shakes or wood shakes. And so it's a great opportunity for contractors. I'll give I'll give a testament to that. Sorry about that, Brett. Yeah. No, I I will give a testament to that that, you know, EnviroShake has lined up meetings with me 'cause HOA is is definitely what what what I deal with in my area. We have golf courses and lake properties and all of them, just like Brad said, it is gated communities where you don't get in the door unless you unless the HOA brings you in. And so the good thing about Environoshake, they're working closely with us contractors. and so like, you know, I've went into HOA meetings with Environosh people before and set those HOA meetings up and in yeah, I mean Environosh w works great with us contractors in that in that area. so one of the things that I would like to

talk about too a little bit is aesthetics, right? And you guys have you've already hit on this a little bit, but there is, a a beauty to some of the more traditional products. And what are you here, you know, and you've kind of answered this, but I still, Brad, I'll start with you. As as homeowners are looking for that look, right? Whether that to Mark's point and Nick's point, whether that's Cedar shake, slate, whatever it may, tile, whatever they are looking for. And yet these newer technology products are coming out there. What are you hearing on the aesthetic look and how we we w we know we want performance, we want resiliency, we want long term, but what's the look? What are you hearing there? For me, with the look, I think people have to remember that product like EnvironmentShake is very versatile. So one of the pictures that you had up at the very beginning of the conversation is a staggered look. And I always say that is the most beautiful rustic cedar shake look where the the shakes have a multi width aspect to them. So they have different splits in So the contractor can yeah, the one in the bottom left, it's too bad. I guess it's hard to see from that shot, but when you're zoomed in, you get a nice variation. with the with the cedar shakes. And so you're breaking every shake. So it's a longer process on the installation side. But it's just a beautiful rustic look where you have different exposures. And you I've driven up to a home and I didn't know it was a viral shake. I could only tell it was because I know at the caps, I can tell by the caps, but I've had seen a cedar shake or a viral shake that staggered and thought that it was cedar pulling up to it. And so and it's so very versatile. We've even done historical project in Texas, a beaver tail. Once again the contractor time consuming, they had to take every shake, the full shakes, the ones without splits, and cut them to to make that beaver tail look. So it's very versatile that you can do. And the same with the slates with multitone color, just like they used to do hundreds of years ago where they put those different patterns or a church would have a cross that has different colors in it. you could do the same thing with with this product. Wow. I I love it. And I I I'd like to go to Nick and Mark a little bit and just talk about I always like to kind of leave this with for contractors who maybe have not like Sanjay who have not used who are interested in using EnviroShake. What is some of your recommendations? What is some of your advice in starting to sell the product, training your c your crews? And working with the company. So Mark, I'll start with you. What what's some of your advice to other contractors who maybe want to start using these kind of products? Yeah. I think, you know, any contractor or, you know, most of them, you know, change is always kind of a tough thing to do. You you've got you're set in your ways, you do business the way you want to do it, and you think,

we don't need that. Well. When I first introduced myself, you know, eighteen years ago, I saw Environ Shake for the first time. And and I I went, wow, that's that's really cool. It's it's recycled. You know, here we are, we're giving back to the planet, which is important. If we all do a little bit together, it makes a big difference. and then as I dug a little bit deeper, I I met the the local representative here in western Canada. and the support was just incredible. So get it started. Get you know learn about it, find out. It's it's not going to be less. It's going to be more. we started 18 years ago and I thought hey if if we do five, ten percent of the business, it's something that we offer. It's an option. it's a high quality route. So it gives us that next level that we could offer. Well, that ten percent became twenty, became thirty, became seventy, became eighty. Now we're at probably ninety percent of our business we install in BioShape. So I I I say it to our customers, I I don't pat ourselves on the back, but from starting eighteen years ago, wanting to do five to ten and percent we sold more in bio shake and purchased more in bio shake than anybody in Canada so it it it it it it grows very quickly I can just say that be careful it grows very quickly because people see it and I say it and I'll say it again and again every single time we we do a roof the customers just go wow and neighbors come along and then they'll say What is this stuff? we're where can I have a quote that right? Music to to a contractor's ears, but it just sells itself. Like it it does it's not a you know a pressure thing. It's not our style. It's it's just present the product and and and have, you know, once get your first one, people see it. You've got a like Nick was saying, it's a a sh a showpiece. It's it's you know. Have people have a look at it. Samples are great, but once someone sees the product that's on, the curb appeal is unbelievable. So get ready to grow your business if you do choose to go in the composite area, because that's where this whole world is going. It's recycled, it's longevity. I I I look at clients and you know, they're forty, forty-five years old. And and they're thinking about a an environment shake roof. The first thing that I'll say is you're making money today. You're forty five years old. In twenty years you're gonna be sixty five. You're gonna wanna retire. Guess what? If you don't have an environhic roof, you're gonna do this process all over again. Great point. So now that fifty, sixty thousand dollar roof twenty, today and twenty is gonna be how much? Don't know. But I guarantee it'll be double. So again, it's just a a curb appeal and a longevity that that just, you know, makes it such a successful product. That is so great. Wow. And Nick, what what is some of your advice to the contractors out there listening? So I'll just build on top of what Mark said. You know, all in a nutshell, the product sells itself. We can as business

owners, we can sometimes get into this mindset of I have to upsell, I have to sell more. But that environoshake product sells itself and what it is. I think that the first step is definitely understanding the installation process because you never want to get into something because the first roof you install wrong and you have a leak or something's wrong with it, it's gonna give you it's gonna ruin you before you ever get started. So making sure that you understand how to install the product. And all the requirements that EnvironShake, because EnvironShake makes sure that you install it in their manufacturing way so that you they can back it and it has a great warranty on it. from there, I say that, you know, it's not necessarily upselling the product to make more money. You're upselling the product to add quality because it is a quality product that's going to last our lifetimes. So you're not You're not going in as like a a sleazy sales guy trying to make more money off of a sale because you got a product you can make more higher profits off of. You're selling a product that you can stand behind and say, in twenty years, if you see me on the road, you're gonna thank me that you've never had a roofing problem and you still have the same roof I put on for you. So and then understanding that, if you're wanting to be an installer for this product, it's you have to you have to understand it's a certain certain client base. And it's a certain area for these products. These are not going to be for everyone. We wish they were. We wish everybody in the world can afford something like this. But it is a higher price product, but it's because of the quality. So understanding your client base that that's going to need and want this product is a very important key of that factor. Wow. I'd like to add on to to what both Mark and Nick said. Also for new contractors. Get some samples, do a little mock-up of your own. And and I would put the samples to the test. I tell homeowners all the time when I talk to them, you could drive your car over this product because everybody they're out they're worried, can we walk on it? What can we do? It can handle anything. I've had contractors take put build a deck, right? So that they have a deck in the back. You don't just have a sample that you're taking a hammer to, but build yourself a little deck and and you can prove to the homeowner right there in person, especially if you don't have your own show home to show off yet. this is a great way to show off what the product can handle and and your work as well. I take a piece and put it in your hand and try to break the exposure part, you don't break it. Wow. That is so John, just to kind of bring us home a little bit, you talk to contractors every single day all over the country as you are talking to contractors about upgrading their services to these long term resilient products. What's your advice? Well, wrapping it up quickly, I would say number one is understand the homeowners or any owner for that matter is more educated today through technology that we have available on the internet. Not saying they're gonna get the right education, but what I like to think about is with all the technology we have out there today and both our roofing contractors, man, they hit this home really well. It's workmanship that matters in the end. So I think that's the big key. They're putting down a quality roof system. They're putting it down with quality workmanship. And honestly, the sale will take care of itself after that point if you can show those things to anybody buying. So that's my thoughts on it for today. I love it. I love it. gentlemen, thank you. Thank you so much. this has been I it went so fast, didn't it? It's like I can't believe it. We could keep talking. Always does. Yeah, it was so fast, but it was so great. And I want to encourage everyone, you can find the EnviroShake directory on Roofers Coffee Shop along with some great podcasts, some great articles, so you can get the information you need to start really pushing these resilient roofs. And I do want to note, Dawn said and tested, water runoff is potable for for the these roofs too. There's another thing to look at on the site and to get information on. So so many great attributes of these premium products. So Thank you all so much. Thank you all for listening. And we will see you in two weeks for another coffee conversations. Thank you everybody and have a great day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.