บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ 33 | The Courage to Be Vulnerable, the Freedom to Find Joy | Danielle Saintard Valiente

Jen Brown: life together. But in your book, 180 Degrees Emerging from Childhood Darkness, you talk about a traumatic incident that seemed to be that trigger point. of recognizing there was still so much more there. Can you talk to us about what it was like reconciling that successful exterior appearance with that trigger point in particular? DSV: Yes, I always was the person that had everything together and I convinced myself that that was the case. I am confident that everyone who's known me through the years would have said Danielle always had her life together. I Jen Brown: Yeah. DSV: was fooling everybody. was a professional actress without being on stage. And when I was 27, I was driving down the street. It was a Saturday afternoon around 3 p.m. I had never been to therapy before. I just thought I was great. Everything was great. I pushed through all of the trauma and I didn't want anybody to know about it because I thought it was a sign of weakness but also I didn't want them to view me differently. And when I was driving down the street I saw a couple in the middle of the road and I saw the male push the female violently. Jen Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah. DSV: And I slowed down my car and I looked around. There was nobody around. And I just said to myself, why me? Why am I the one that's witnessing this? I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want to have to deal with this. It was a Saturday. And then I see him punch her. And hugorodriguezjr: Mm. DSV: I turned my steering wheel. I drive up to the couple. I rolled down my window and I said, is everything okay? and he ran. and he ran into the woods and she started crying and she said, please don't call the police. He has a warrant out for his arrest and we have a two year old. I told her, I have to call the police because I can't unsee what I saw and the fact that you are a two year old, I can't live with myself if I don't make that phone call. And she was pleading with me, bargaining with me, you please don't call, please don't call. And then as I'm trying to gain the strength to make that phone call, this guy pulls out of nowhere. And he said, I'm gonna make the call. I saw everything. I don't know where he came from. It was like some kind of angel. He just knew I didn't Jen Brown: Wow. Yeah. DSV: have the strength to do it. And he worked, he was affiliated with law enforcement in some capacity. So he was prepared. He was equipped. He made the phone call. And in the moment, I know that this girl was upset with me, but I just knew that over time she would be grateful. And so would her daughter. Jen Brown: Mm. It's amazing, hugorodriguezjr: Wow. Jen Brown: just amazing how our own story shape how we see things, right? And you were in that that moment for a reason. DSV: Yes, I was because not only did I hopefully help her and her daughter, but when I went home to go retell my partner the story, I had a full blown anxiety attack was on the floor hyperventilating this trauma that was suppressed in my subconscious was bubbling way past the surface and I was used to just pushing it down. But today it wasn't happening. It said, Danielle, you've gone 27 years with pushing this down. Now it's up. It's bursting at the seams. hugorodriguezjr: Wow. DSV: And that's when I started to go to therapy. And I've been in now for 12 years. Jen Brown: Just amazing. Just amazing. DSV: It's changed my life. And so the gift of witnessing that that day wasn't their pain, but hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. DSV: it was the opportunity for me to use their pain to recognize it in myself and to start doing the work. Jen Brown: Start doing the work. And there's something I want to just bring our listeners and viewers into here because when you left Massachusetts at 18 and DSV: Mm-hmm. Jen Brown: went to college, you basically were on your own. You put yourself through college, you started DSV: Yes. Jen Brown: your company hugorodriguezjr: Any Jen Brown: from the ground up, had some DSV: Yes. Jen Brown: serious challenges along the way. You talk about being homeless at a couple points and going through a lawsuit. DSV: Yes. Yes. Yes. Jen Brown: How did you form your leadership and fortitude given your own history and hugorodriguezjr: Mm-hmm. Jen Brown: then going through these trigger points along the way? DSV: think because I didn't have a family, I have always connected to people and friends, professional relationships, as if they are family. And in a lot of cases, I was with my professional peers more than I was at my home. So I'm seeing them 10, 12 hours a day. That to me was family. And I think my leadership style has always been if I work with you, if I'm affiliated with you, you are my family and I will love you like family and I will take care of you like family. I will defend you like family because I never had it. So I was always, I think, seeking it, but also just knowing that this is how I would want to be treated. And now I have the opportunity to do that for other people. hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. Danielle, if I could just say, first of all, I'm so blown away, right? Like your ability to tell this story and and to use the power of the things that you went through, which would, you know, decimate most people, you've used it to really create not just for yourself and your leadership, but for people around you. Jen has talked about you before and Her experience of getting to know you at Toastmasters and everything you've done really shows that you're you're out there turning a terrible situation into a bright light for other people. And I am really grateful that you are doing that. And thank you for sharing that story. the other thing I want to say is that as leaders, one of the things I've noticed is that everybody comes Into the workplace with with a bit of that mask on that you were talking about. Not not with the same reasons, but we're all we all try to hide our vulnerability. We all try to put on a mask in in our lives because it's hard to be vulnerable. But true

vulnerability and the ability to be authentic and to be candid is such an unlock. in a workplace. what do you tell people about the bravery around being authentic? DSV: you hugorodriguezjr: How do you help people see how impac how powerful and impactful that can be in their lives as they sh as they are allow themselves to take the mask off and and be more who they really are? DSV: Instead of telling them, I show them. And hugorodriguezjr: Tell me more. DSV: that was, would say like the second layer of my personal breakthrough is even though I started to become more vulnerable and I started to share with my team the things that I had been through. I think they started to understand me better. Why is Danielle working this hard? Why is she pushing herself to this level? Because It made me feel better. The sense of accomplishment made me feel better about myself. I had zero self-esteem, zero self-love, so work for me was the thing. And when I started to share that story, they started to understand that. But the breakthrough for me was when I was 31, I started to be very sick. I had been married and early in my marriage, I was pregnant. And in that pregnancy, I had a miscarriage, but the miscarriage, my body didn't register it. And hugorodriguezjr: Ooh. DSV: it's an uncommon thing, but at 10 and a half weeks, my body was still registering a growing egg, increasing hormones, but my body stopped carrying that egg at eight weeks. And they said to hugorodriguezjr: Wow. DSV: me, we're gonna have to induce the miscarriage. And I didn't really understand what that meant, but in that process, my body did not respond well. And for some reason, my body was hanging on to this pregnancy for dear life, which I really feel is a connection to my trauma. When hugorodriguezjr: Mm-hmm. DSV: I had to go back to work and explain to my team, I'm not feeling well, it was the first time that I wasn't showing up first, staying last. I wasn't 100 % and I stayed sick and I ended up being diagnosed with Lyme disease. And that was a very difficult four years because when you start treatment for Lyme disease, you basically are very ill 24 hours a day. And I was responsible for paying many people. I was responsible for putting food on their table. I couldn't not show up to work, but I wasn't showing up 100%. there were days I couldn't get myself out of bed. So instead of showing up at 8 a.m., I'm barely making it there for 10 a.m. And instead of staying at the office all day, I have to go take a nap in my car halfway through because I feel so ill. And I was at first hiding this from my team. I didn't want to tell them how sick I was. I didn't want to tell them I had no energy really to even give them. I hugorodriguezjr: Mm-hmm. DSV: couldn't even give it to myself. But at one point I couldn't hide it anymore. and I sat them down at the conference room in a team meeting and I said, I'm very sick. I'm unwell. If it were up to me, I would take a year off work. That's how sick I am. And I know that this is what I need, but I can't do that. So what can we do? Can we plan as a team several months out? I'm going to go on a medical leave. Let's shoot for 30 days. How can we prepare for that 30 days as a team? I don't want anyone else to know that I'm gone. How can we still operate as if I'm still here and prepare each of you for this? And they were so supportive. They were like, listen, hugorodriguezjr: Yeah, DSV: you go, you take care of yourself, you go heal, we've got you. And in that process, I learned that me sharing my vulnerability allowed them to step up as leaders hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. DSV: and to shine and to support me. And it was this reciprocal moment where I felt like, okay, The second I just was honest and told them I need help, they were like, I want to help you. Jen Brown: Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yeah. hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. that's a great example. What a tough one. Wow. It had to be so hard. But that is so that's such a good lesson for everybody in leadership, right? You need to lead with your authenticity, with your vulnerability. And people will reciprocate and they will be able to step up. The power of being authentic in the office is that you can bring your whole self. warts DSV: Yes. hugorodriguezjr: and all, but you get to also unlock all this creativity and energy behind who you really are instead of investing it in hiding that. That's really amazing. Tell me the rest of the story though. How did it how did it work out? What happened? You're clearly DSV: Well, medical leave was not fun for sure, but hugorodriguezjr: Ha ha ha. DSV: I thought, I can expedite my treatment if I'm gone for 30 days and it doesn't work like that. So, but this, you know, this is my nature. Let's get it done. Let's make it happen. I just want to show up and be a hundred percent. And it just didn't work that way. So in the midst of that, you know, my team continued to rise up to the occasion. They continue to be better leaders, stronger leaders. And that allowed me to take more of a backseat. Instead of me driving the bus, I was more in the hugorodriguezjr: Mm-hmm. DSV: passenger seat. And that was where I now had a little bit extra time and energy to put towards my healing. But it shifted things at work in the best possible way. And I felt like it brought us closer. not only were we family before, but we certainly became family in that process. And so at the point where I finally hit remission, which was about three years ago, I said, okay, I'm ready to be back in the driver's seat. And, they were ready to kind of go back to their normal roles. And it's just been a great process where I saw the opportunity in that moment. Now looking back, it was difficult at first, but I think it all worked out for the best. And now I have my energy back and my spark back and I love what I do. I'm grateful that I still get to do it. hugorodriguezjr: It was a whole unlock Jen Brown: I know. hugorodriguezjr: for a whole new level of the of the

business. That's amazing. DSV: All new level, yes. Jen Brown: And for you personally, I I will venture to say, because the spark that you carry is just so energetic. And I know this DSV: Thank you. Jen Brown: from seeing you every Tuesday at our Toastmasters meeting here. But talk us, walk us through how did you get involved in public speaking from Toastmasters? the work that you do with the Carousel Center in Wilmington that is all about supporting children and then your TEDx talk. Like what's that journey been like? DSV: It's so funny because I just always loved public speaking. I had these nerdy hobbies as kids. You I used to write book reports for fun and I was always running for class rep and class government. And in those roles, you know, I started in seventh grade, you had to give a speech and advocate for yourself. And everybody was nervous to public speak, but I loved it because I was a dancer and I performed in plays and musicals and I was a singer and I was comfortable on stage. So I joined Toastmasters 10 years ago thinking this is gonna be fun, it's a hobby, I just enjoy writing and creating speeches and never anticipated being on stage or never anticipated sharing my story. Absolutely not would I share anything personal. And after about three speeches, I ran out of things to talk about because you can only talk about superficial topics for so long and I'm like, I'm talking about taking vacations and I haven't even taken a vacation. It was inauthentic and ridiculous. And finally on my fourth or fifth speech, I said, gosh, I think I should probably start talking about my own experiences. And I was, it was the first time that I was sharing the truth with anybody. My best friend of 22 years never knew the details that I was sharing in this restaurant room of Toastmasters hugorodriguezjr: Wow. DSV: in 2016. And I thought I was giving them everything. I thought the room was hearing my whole life story. And then I poured my heart out. And a man named Eric, who has now been my mentor for 10 years since this speech came up to me after that speech and said, great speech, Danielle, there's just one problem. And I said, okay, what's that? And he said, the audience just didn't connect. And I was so offended because here I am. first time ever exposing my truth, sharing my story. And he said, we can feel the wall. And so I not only had my partner call me a robot around the same time, but now some random guy who's much older than me and has a lot of life experience and wisdom is looking at me. He sees me. He sees right through the wall and he says, you don't have to share everything, but we can feel the wall. It was an energetic exchange that I had blocked. hugorodriguezjr: Mm-hmm. DSV: And I sat with that and for a month. I thought about what he said to me and I said, okay, I'm ready. I'm ready to start sharing. And when I shared the next time, somebody from the room sent me an email and he said, my wife needs to speak to you. She's been struggling. She had a similar childhood. And from that moment, I realized that there was purpose in me sharing my story. It wasn't about me. It's not about me. It's like, get Jen Brown: Right. Right. hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. Yeah. DSV: over yourself, Danielle, who cares? I don't really want to share my story, but that's not what matters. It's for that one person in the room who needs to hear it, who needs the help. So I did meet up with his wife many times and I tried to help her through her processing of her trauma. And that's where I got hooked and I just started doing it. And I started working with this nonprofit that helps domestically and sexually abused children. And when they said, can you share our story on behalf? of us because I didn't have a child advocacy center to support me and I didn't tell anybody because I knew I wouldn't be believed and I didn't have anybody who could help me. It was like this is the time to share because I want to be a dead end. I want to tell other people that you can hugorodriguezjr: You're DSV: use your story not in a selfish way but in a selfless way to break the cycle for somebody else. hugorodriguezjr: That's powerful. Jen Brown: So, so powerful, so powerful. hugorodriguezjr: I was gonna ask 'cause it y you have been so incredibly brave in sharing the story. Does it get easier to share it? DSV: Yes, definitely. The more times that you say it out loud, it gets easier and it's interesting because I could share my story at this point without getting choked up. If I don't see other people getting choked up, that's where I'm like, okay, I can do this. But my therapist had me read back parts of my book out loud. And when I had to read from the perspective of me as a child, I could barely make it through a sentence. And that's what's so interesting. It's like, I can tell the story from my adult self, but when I put myself back in the inner child position, I hugorodriguezjr: Mm-hmm. DSV: am a disaster because there is so much sadness for her. And even though I've healed and I'm over that, I feel like there's just this part of me that I feel sorry that she had to experience that. I, know, to not have love or protection or safety for 18 years is sad. But hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. DSV: I'm grateful Jen Brown: Yeah. DSV: for it because it's given me everything I have today. Literally everything. I have the best life today and what I went through for the first 18 years was more than worth it to have what I have today. But most importantly, not talking material things, I'm talking what I have inside. have finally... removed the walls and I would I experience that love that connection all the way through myself now which before I just felt like was closed off there was that disconnect that exchange was blocked I now have it all the way through and that's the gift Jen Brown: So there, that gift right there, actually, the first time I met you, we were at a women's leadership convention and you were leading, Hugo, you'll love

this, a values-based exercise. And DSV: Yes, we're values. hugorodriguezjr: I do. Mm-hmm. Jen Brown: core values, it was, I love that work anyway. And the way you walked us through it and led that was so, so powerful because you also were vulnerable in doing that. How did you get involved in values-based core establishing core values? And how has that framed your life? DSV: My therapist gave me that exercise when I was early on in therapy and she had given me a bunch of flashcards of core value words. And she said, you know, I want you to do this for yourself. I want you to do this with your partner. And what I found so interesting is then I took it into work and I said, okay, let's do this as a team. And when I did it the second time, my values had shifted. Not who I am, but for example, the first time I did it, my partner had pulled out the card fun. And fun was in his top five. And I was like, I was in workaholic mode. was like, that's disgusting. That's lazy. hugorodriguezjr: Ha ha ha Jen Brown: Yeah. DSV: I don't want to be with someone who's like trying to have fun. I want to work. And if you don't want to work, we aren't going to have anything in common. And then it's funny because here I am and I'm like, adventure experiences. It shifts over time. And I found that so interesting. So through doing it for probably eight plus years. I loved doing it at the conference because I felt like, where you are today is not going to be the same as where you are in a year from now. Family may always be a core value to you. Friendship may always be a core value to you. But the other things that affect your lifestyle do shift with age, with experience, with, you know, who's around you, what's happening to you. And that's why I love the exercise because it's ever changing. So I get excited to do it every year just to see where I am. hugorodriguezjr: Have you found that your values Jen Brown: So where are you now? Yeah. hugorodriguezjr: change over time? I like they do they change radically? Do they change around the edges? I'm I'm curious because I I love this exercise too. DSV: think who I am obviously will never change, but what I'm willing to use my time for is what has shifted. So before it used to be work, work, work, and now it's joy, experience, connection, adventure, playfulness. Like Danielle, 10 years ago, I'm not trying to play. hugorodriguezjr: Ha ha ha. Jen Brown: Ha ha. DSV: We're not playing hard, working hard. We're only working. And now I'm like, wow, it's just so much. freer. have this freedom because work is not what is giving me purpose anymore. It is secondary to what I feel is the most important. It is a tool. It is my fuel in many ways, but is not my primary. Jen Brown: That's so awesome. So awesome. So I want to make sure that we we talk about this TEDx talk here because your journey into that. And I only saw part of this, but the hard work that went into preparing for this and then the amazing delivery and message that you had about the power of the yellow light. What's behind the yellow light? And tell us about your journey to get there. DSV: It's so interesting because I have always gone back to childhood experiences for what has given me fuel in the present. Okay. And I used to play the game red light, green light. Have you both played? Okay. hugorodriguezjr: Mm-hmm. Jen Brown: yes. DSV: And when we played that game, we also had a yellow light. Not everyone plays with the yellow light, but green you go and you sprint. Red, it's a hard stop, and yellow, you walk, and whoever makes it to the finish line first wins. And I started thinking about that game and that concept, just, you know, metaphorically and thinking back to these childhood games because I just had a blast playing in the neighborhood and, you know, with all these kids running around in the 90s, it was so fun. And I started to think about how that game represents life and how... Society conditions us to live at a certain speed. And that speed is the green light. That is go, go, go, reach, reach, reach, more, more, more. But guess what? It's never enough. And so therefore you keep going faster. And at that speed, which is what I was living in, you only have one option. You're going to hit a red light. And I did. I hit mine. And I started thinking about that when I was bedridden with Lyme disease. I was stuck in bed. I was screaming and crying in pain, thinking back on how I ended up there. And I started thinking, wow, Danielle, you really pushed your limits. You did too much. You sacrificed everything for your health. And you did that because society told you to. Because where you're from in Massachusetts, they told you to. because they told you if you did a five-year degree in four years, that was gonna make you better, that you're a better person. The more work you do, the more hours you work, the better you are. And that was my identity, which is how I ended up at my red light. When I ended up at my red light, my goal now was not to go back to green, but what's the safe space? How do I continue to be healthy? I... started thinking about the yellow light. And I experienced the yellow light for the first time in Costa Rica. went there right after COVID. The borders had just reopened and I was sitting in a restaurant and waiting a very long time to be served and just seeing that this pace of life was so different. I'm like, wow, you know, they're all happy. They're having conversation. They're not rushing to the table. I don't even have a water. It's been 10 minutes. I'm hungry. I want food. And they're like, Pura Vida, know, Jen Brown: So true. So hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. Jen Brown: true. I used to do that in the Foreign Service. Travel was every three months for sure. And what I really love is just how the same principle applies, right? Put something on your calendar, whatever DSV: Yes. Jen Brown: it is that fills you up and DSV: Yes. Jen Brown: look forward to that. So there's that motivation, right? And

and filling you in a way that then brings you back to be more productive and creative and all of DSV: Yes. Jen Brown: those things. Talk to us. What would you say to the leader, the founder out there who is struggling with some form of adversity? And you've gone through such a range of that. Like what, what can they do as a first step? DSV: I think the first step is getting help with self-development, whether that's therapy or reading or having a mentor. I do all three. Maybe not everyone might need that, but I feel like when you have people helping you or the tools helping you to get through it, you're not alone. and you have the wisdom of somebody else who's been through it. So I love mentors because they've already been through all the things that I've been through. And when I was sued by my previous employer before I became an entrepreneur, the people that were 20 years older than me, they were like, Danielle, when you're successful in business, you're sued. That's just part of the game. we've all been there. And I was like, wow, really? hugorodriguezjr: Wow. DSV: I never even thought of it like that. And I never saw myself in a courtroom. having a lawsuit and having to pay an attorney, I just, I was always such a great kid. So doing something wrong was never on my radar or on my trajectory. So I think having the mentors who have been through these things is very helpful because you can learn from them and through them instead of making the mistakes yourself. But when you're faced with adversity, if you have the tools and the people to help get you through, at least you're not alone. And you, you really do learn. more through failure than success. So the adversity is a gift because what you're learning is gonna make you more valuable and it will make you more profitable in the end. All the things that I experienced early on have made me more successful. That lawsuit cost me $23,500 Jen Brown: yes. DSV: to pay the attorney, but I built a multimillion dollar company. So I look back and I'm like, okay, I was focused on the loss then of that attorney bill. But really, hugorodriguezjr: Yes. DSV: that was a small investment for what I've been able to get out of it over 10, 12, 13 years. hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. We we live our lives so f afraid of making mistakes. But when you can have that mind shift that a mistake is a learning opportunity and it's an unlock for success on the backside, you know, it's a hard mental shift to make, right? Like we're straight A students and we have to turn in the DSV: Yes. Exactly. hugorodriguezjr: right paper and get the right grades on the exams. But the truth is when you miss a question and go back, that's a lesson. Like that's a learning opportunity. Opportunity and the same in work and the same in life, right? Be open to those mistakes and embrace them because that's where the your growth is. That's fantastic. DSV: Yes. Yes. hugorodriguezjr: Can I just ask about the mentor thing? It's something I think a lot about. And I want I've been very lucky with mentors. I I say lucky, I I I think that kind of making yourself open to mentors and then finding people in your life that are open to being mentors, I think is that's where the luck is, but it's really, a mind shift in itself. How have you found your mentors? What is what does mentorship mean to you in your professional career? DSV: Hugo, I have to say that I think part of it is luck because they all found me. I didn't know that I needed mentors. I think they all fell in my lap and fell in my presence because the universe put me in a position and it was giving me what I needed when I needed it. I never would have guessed that my painters who I worked with for a year, who they were in their 40s at the time, a married couple, I never would have guessed that they would have offered to loan me up to $50,000 to start an interior design firm. Like that was not on my radar. And when they approached hugorodriguezjr: Wow. Wow. DSV: me with that at lunch, I didn't know them that well at the time. We had just been working together a year. So I never expected that, but I would say you don't think about who's watching you, but somebody's always watching you. hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. Yep. DSV: And they saw me young, hustling, working hard, caring more than anyone else. And they said, this girl has something we feel we want to invest in. And somebody had done it for them. So it was a give back moment for them, but also a business opportunity. mean, it was a shark loan. wasn't like they were gifting me money. It was a shark loan. But at the same time, I never would have been able to start a company without them because I was a broke post-college student with a ton of student loan debt. I lived in an empty apartment. drove a Honda Civic and I slept on the floor. So what bank is going to give me a loan to start my interior design company? Nobody. know, I'll hugorodriguezjr: Right. DSV: just think realizing that there are people around you who will believe in you more than you believe in yourself, who have experienced things that you will experience when you start looking. They're there. It's just we never expect. And there are always people watching. And I, whenever I helped, I've helped so many people start their own small businesses and I tell them when they need money to start a company, I'm like, there's, there are people around you. You just don't hugorodriguezjr: Interesting. DSV: think of it that way, but I want you to look at who's around you and think, okay, who has the money? Yes. But also who believes in me and who loves me enough to invest in me because they, they exist. We just, It's an uncomfortable thing to think of who's around you in that way. But I think mentors are around you when they're meant to be around you and the circles change and shift, but they've certainly fallen in my lap. I've been very lucky and you know, I still have them to this day. I feel like once you have a mentor, it's a lifetime relationship. hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. Yeah. There's a new book out Jen Brown: Daniel. hugorodriguezjr: by Angela Duckworth who did her first book on grit, and it's called Situated, and she talks about how you should try to be a mentor magnet and open yourself to the possibilities of of mentors. You know, so often we think, I I need a mentor, and so you're you're waiting to, you know, like Find someone who says, I'll be your mentor or whatever. But I think your experience illustrates just being open, doing your thing, right? Hustling, being that person DSV: Yes, yes. hugorodriguezjr: that people want to invest in. And then being aware when people meet reach out a little bit and they're like, Hey, DSV: Yes! hugorodriguezjr: how's that going? in you're like, wait, they're they're in they care about me, right? They wanna they wanna in DSV: Yes. hugorodriguezjr: invest a little time and thought in me. And that becomes a mentor relationship. It can't be something forged from outside. You kind of open yourself to the experience and someone steps into that, like you're like the painting couple. Jen Brown: No. No. DSV: Absolutely. Jen Brown: And with on that note, I really want to say, Danielle, you have been such a mentor for me in my journey. DSV: and Jen Brown: So having you on this podcast, you've just filled my my cup this morning. I know you have filled our listeners and viewers' cups. And how can Our listeners and viewers find you. DSV: They can find me on Instagram, which is Danielle Saintard Valiente or daniellesaintardvaliente.com. Jen Brown: Awesome, and we will include that. hugorodriguezjr: but wait wait before you Yes, go ahead. Say 'cause I want your books and I wanna put your Ted talk, Jen Brown: Yes. hugorodriguezjr: I wanna connect all of our viewers to all of your stuff. Jen, go ahead. Jen Brown: we are absolutely putting those links in the notes. So for our listeners and viewers, please check the notes. Danielle, your TED talk is called what? DSV: Why your life needs a yellow light. Jen Brown: Woo! Why your life needs a yellow light? And your book is very powerful. 180 DSV: Thank you. Jen Brown: Degrees Emerging from Childhood Darkness. You also have DSV: Yes. Jen Brown: a children's series, correct? DSV: Yes, the 180 Degrees is on Amazon and the children's series is just through me. Jen Brown: Okay, well we're including that in the notes. Thank you, Danielle. Your talk today is really inspirational, overcoming adversity and really bringing joy into the hard hugorodriguezjr: Yeah. Yeah, thank you so much. You radiate that energy and that joy. And clearly you have found a whole new plane to exist on. So thank you for sharing your your light in the world and thank you for joining us today. This was really a great conversation. DSV: Thank you so much