บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Scott Coker: “They Couldn’t Destroy Us”, His New $60M MMA Venture & Why McGregor Isn’t Done

so how I feel like it's like, look, they didn't just show up with a big bag of money and go, here you go. We like you, so please take this money, right? You talk about tens of millions of dollars. So really, it was... They couldn't destroy us or make us close, so they had to negotiate and make a deal, and that's what happened. 00:05:17 Speaker 1: What did you think the difference was between Strikeforce and UFC at that particular time? 00:05:22 Speaker 4: Well, we were a young company, up and coming, right? Just got our first real big television deal on Showtime, and we're... And if you look at our fighter roster, we had a better heavyweight division than they did. I think they had Kane and they had Brock, but we had Fedor, we had Josh Barnett, we had Daniel Cormier, who entered the headway tournament. We just, we had killers. Alistair Overeem was in the tournament. It was, it was just an amazing moment in time that we had so many killers and we were developing young stars like Ronda, like I said, Tyron Woodley, Luke Rockhold, Josh Thompson, Gilbert Melendez. It's just, you know, we just, we just had a really. 00:05:59 Speaker 2: All the guys became legends. 00:06:01 Speaker 4: And we had such a great eye for talent, you know, myself and my fight team. Great, great eye for talent and that's really what made the league so special. 00:06:10 Speaker 2: Who was your favorite fighter that you had your hand in their career? 00:06:13 Speaker 4: Oh, boy, that's a tough one, right? That's... I mean, I would say... When I think back at the great fights that we put on, there's, like, four magic moments, I think. It's not just one, but Kung Lee fighting Frank Shamrock, right? 00:06:29 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:06:30 Speaker 4: That was the loudest arena I've ever heard in my life. I mean, it was just roaring in there, right? And the Carano Cyborg fight. first female fight ever in the history of female fighting being on a main event on a national television, which is Showtime, right? So that was two. Fedor losing to Fabrizio Bardum. 00:06:51 Speaker 2: Crazy. 00:06:52 Speaker 4: I was like. 00:06:52 Speaker 2: That was crazy. 00:06:53 Speaker 4: I couldn't believe it because I thought for sure, you know, Fedor was undefeated at that time. Of course. 00:06:57 Speaker 2: He was the greatest. 00:06:59 Speaker 4: And then we had the trilogy fights between Josh Thompson and Gilbert Melendez. probably the greatest trilogy in the history of MMA, seriously. It was just like back and forth, just going at it. Those three fights were amazing. So those are the fights that I kind of really recall. We had Nick Diaz fighting Paul Daly, maybe the best fight in the history of MMA. Go check it out. It's from San Diego. It was the Hagler-Hearns fight moment for me. Yeah, it was. Go check it out. It's an amazing fight. 00:07:32 Speaker 3: How difficult was it when you were building Strikeforce and You're talking about the stars that you pretty much groomed to let that go opposed to saying, no, you know what? We're going to build this and compete with the UFC opposed to selling. I mean, was there a negotiation process where they offered a certain amount and you had to keep going up to say, you know what? This is too much for us to refuse to turn down. Talk me through that process and did you hesitate at all? 00:08:02 Speaker 4: Here's the thing is that you have to remember when you bring in a partner, Now you have a partner you have to talk to. You know what I mean? So either I was going to, and they wanted to do the deal. And I was like, guys, wait five years. Build it for five years. You'll add a zero to that paycheck. But they couldn't see the light at the end of that tunnel. They saw what was in front of them today. Because the company that I partnered with buys and sells companies all the time. 00:08:26 Speaker 2: Left and right. 00:08:27 Speaker 4: All the time. They're just spinning it. So to me, this is my 20 years of work. 00:08:31 Speaker 2: Your base, yeah. 00:08:32 Speaker 4: And honestly, the day that we sold, it was really probably one of the worst days of my life when it should have been one of the best days of. 00:08:37 Speaker 2: Your life, right? Wow. 00:08:39 Speaker 4: Because it was- Did you cry? You know what? It was very painful. Let's put it that way. 00:08:43 Speaker 2: No matter how much money you got in your bank account that day. 00:08:45 Speaker 4: You know, I've never done this for money. You know, honestly, I love martial arts. To me, I've always been a martial arts promoter since I was like 21. So to me, it's like, this is something I've always done. And I love what I do. And I love the fighters. I love, you know, putting the fights together. I loved the business of martial arts combat. And so that's why I do it. And so to me, it wasn't about what was the check looking like at the end of the day. But it was, you know, to me, it was like you said, somebody's taking your baby away. 00:09:13 Speaker 3: Now, so those are the last interactions you had with Dana Wright in the UFC, I'm assuming. So how long from that moment to Bellator? 00:09:24 Speaker 2: How long was that? 00:09:25 Speaker 4: Well, when I saw Strikeforce, I was on a three-year non-compete. 00:09:28 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:09:29 Speaker 4: So basically, I was still UFC, right? So three years. And then when I came off the three-year non-compete, I got a call from Kevin Kay, who was running Spike TV. Right. And I really liked him. I said, oh, man, this guy is really... He's into it. Like, he loves martial arts. He loves MMA. And the more I got to know him, the more I really dug his vibe. So I said, you know what? I'm going to join forces with this guy. I'm going to go help this guy. And I'm going to go help him build Bellator. So that's when I jumped to Bellator. 00:09:54 Speaker 5: Three years. 00:09:54 Speaker 3: I mean, that says a lot about what you bring to the table, right? Because most non-competes are for a year, like in a lot of

cases. I don't know about TBM Combat Sports, but They say, we want this guy out the way for three years. 00:10:09 Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Yeah, they tried seven. 00:10:10 Speaker 2: Believe me. Really? 00:10:11 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:10:12 Speaker 2: Seven? 00:10:13 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:10:13 Speaker 2: God, they wanted to finish at Walmart. Like, what was he going to do? 00:10:16 Speaker 4: I know they had to pay me every year. It wasn't, like, free. 00:10:18 Speaker 2: Right, right. 00:10:19 Speaker 4: Oh, of course. 00:10:21 Speaker 2: What does that look like? Because I'm the pocket watcher. I want one of those non-competes for the rest of my life. 00:10:25 Speaker 1: Like, like, like. 00:10:27 Speaker 3: What does a non-compete payment deal look like? 00:10:30 Speaker 4: Give me something. It's well into the six figures. 00:10:34 Speaker 2: Just for you to shut the hell up and sit down. 00:10:36 Speaker 4: Go play golf, travel the world, go on vacation. Coker, just sit over here and don't do anything. Just stay out of our way. 00:10:43 Speaker 5: That's outside of the lump sum of the acquisition, right? 00:10:47 Speaker 3: Wow. Is that something that comes with it or does your lawyer have to negotiate that? 00:10:52 Speaker 4: Well, the thing is, I said, look, I'm happy to take no non-compete, right? I can jump right back into it. Because I feel like I'm a builder of companies. So to me, I'm like, look, I'm happy to take nothing. So just let me go. But no, this is part of the deal. 00:11:08 Speaker 2: So we can make sure you don't do anything. 00:11:11 Speaker 4: Yeah, the demand came from their lawyers, actually. 00:11:13 Speaker 3: But even with all that being said, you took a three-year hiatus. And still Bellator became the second company. You know, compared to UFC, it was UFC and Bellator was creeping up on them. 00:11:24 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. When I got to Bellator, let's be honest, it was, I'll never forget it because I walked into the ballroom that we're doing fights in and it was about, hell, about 1,500 people. And so I walked in, I said, oh, you know, this is, I got a lot of work to do, man. 00:11:41 Speaker 2: This is cute. 00:11:42 Speaker 4: This is a lot of work because to me, you come from selling out 18,000 seats or 15,000. I mean, we had big fights in the Bay Area and you go from that in Chicago and New York, and then now you're starting over basically, right? So basically we had to make some changes and instill a new mindset into the staff and the public said, this is not acceptable. This is where we have to go. And so this is not gonna be a ballroom show, right? This is gonna be an arena show. 00:12:10 Speaker 1: So how long from the first time you stepped in that arena under the umbrella of Bellator before that moment when you said, oh no, we really are competing with the UFC. 00:12:22 Speaker 4: Well, the thing is like, when you think about competing, it's like, look, we, I've always built, I've

always built like a company from the ground up. Right. So to me, it's like, you know, it was, it was like, I'm jumping on a ship that's kind of already on its way. 00:12:36 Speaker 2: Right. 00:12:36 Speaker 4: And so now I have to fix it a little bit. And so started doing my thing and started bringing my team in and started, you know, and then it took about two years before we started doing arena shows. You know, San Diego was the first one and we did, uh, Tito Ortiz fought for us actually. And so, uh, we, we did, we had a victory there. Went to Chicago. We had a victory there. We started having small victories. 00:12:57 Speaker 2: Right. 00:12:58 Speaker 4: But the whole time I said to my team, I said, we got to build for the ground up, which means we build fighters from the ground up better than anybody else. No, no one has done it. Like we have done it. You guys know, it's like, it's, we have a good eye for talent. We have a good system building them. So yeah. I said, we got to go build our own next stars. I signed a kid named AJ McKee. This guy is, uh, you know, has turned out to be a great fighter. Big star. He's fighting for PFR right now. 00:13:23 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:13:24 Speaker 4: And, um, we signed Usman. Then we signed Aaron Pico. Aaron Pico was our first sign. Uh, the first contract we gave to a young kid. These kids are all 18, 19, 20. And, and so we started doing the same thing we did in strike force because I don't believe you can just build a league or a company. buying free agents, very expensive proposition to build. So to me, I've always built from the ground up and you buy free agents from the top down and that creates a very robust roster. And that's, that's how I built my companies. 00:13:55 Speaker 3: Well, what's the criteria for finding a star? Like, like in your eyes, how can you see a guy in the gym, grappling, striking and, and what makes you think, I think this could be a star because. 00:14:08 Speaker 2: It has to be something more than just as fights. Yeah. 00:14:11 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:14:11 Speaker 2: You know what it is? 00:14:12 Speaker 4: It's, it's, and it's, It's something you guys understand when I explain it like this. It's like watching somebody up on a movie screen. Either you're attracted to what's on the screen or you're not. And you can't even see what it is. They either have it or they don't. They either move you emotionally some way or they don't, right? So to me, it's like when I see a fighter fight, I'm thinking, okay, he can fight, he can punch, he can kick. Does he have that X factor, right? And what that X factor is, I can't even write it down. 00:14:41 Speaker 2: Nate Diaz. Okay. Come on. People just, not the greatest fighter, good fighter, really, really good fighter. Yeah. But people love him no matter what. 00:14:51 Speaker 4: Yeah. And his brother too. 00:14:52 Speaker 6: Yes. 00:14:53 Speaker 4: Nick, let me tell you, Nick, Nate, Jake Shields, and Gilbert Hernandez, the scrap pack, right?

That's the original scrap pack. And they came to fight, man. And that's something that I always love because I worked for K-1, Japanese martial arts fight company for about eight years, right? I ran the North American operations. 00:15:10 Speaker 2: When was this? 00:15:11 Speaker 4: This was between 1999 to 2008. And I left K-1 to do MMA because I started building MMA. 00:15:19 Speaker 2: It kind of overlapped. 00:15:20 Speaker 4: That sounds like it overlapped a little bit. About two years. 00:15:22 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:15:24 Speaker 4: But the one thing I learned in Japan is this. You don't have to win all the time. You just got to bring it. Yes. And if you bring it, you'll always have a job. They say, Mr. Ishii, who I just love this guy because he taught me so much and he really taught me like, like a masterclass of being a fight promoter, right? And he always used to tell me, if they have the Bushido, that's all that matters. Right? The samurai spirit. That's what he told me. I said, how's that? He says, watch. And if these two guys went at it and they fought, they both will have jobs. If one guy's just laying on the other guy or just holding on, not really wanting to fight. Because when you're really good and you're a seasoned veteran or a real journeyman, you can kind of control the fight sometimes, right? If you're, you know, you just hold, you know, so he's like, if they fight, they'll always have a home here. And I said, oh, that's something I want to bring too. And that's like with Nick, Nate, you know, Jake, Gilbert, Josh Thompson, fighters that bring it. Cyborg brings it, right? 00:16:27 Speaker 2: It's still fighting to this day. 00:16:29 Speaker 4: She boxed with me last week, last year. I did a fight, small local fight in San Jose just to keep the local kids fighting with Gilbert Melendez and, um, which he's been a great, great partner and promoter friend. And, and, um, I got a call from Chris Cyborg and she said, Hey, I want to box. I said, really? I said, why don't you come on box? So we, we did a five row brain so they could do MMA and kickboxing and we added the boxing fight. So it was fun to, it was fun to see her box in the ring against a world boxer. And, and she won and she's, you know, she's doing her thing. And she, she told me she wants to eventually wants to have a world title fight. 00:17:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, but she's calling out Clarissa, though. I like her a lot. What do you think about that? Clarissa's the quote. The greatest woman of all time. 00:17:11 Speaker 4: You know, there's something to be said about... At least she's trying to test herself, right? 00:17:17 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:17:17 Speaker 4: And as a fighter, you know, as a fighter, you always want to test yourself, right? And she feels like that's the. 00:17:23 Speaker 2: Target, right? 00:17:23 Speaker 4: That's the goal. She's definitely confident. Yeah. And she said that's the target. And, you know, when you have so much success in one discipline... Uh,

you know, you feel like you can do it. And so to me, listen, win, lose, I'll pay to see it. That's all I gotta say. 00:17:38 Speaker 3: Right. 00:17:38 Speaker 4: You'll pay. We'll all pay to see it. We'll all watch that fight. 00:17:41 Speaker 2: Right. 00:17:41 Speaker 4: So it's, uh, to me, it's like, it's, it's, could you imagine just getting to the belt fight, having, you know, so much success in MMA, that that's a victory in itself. 00:17:52 Speaker 2: They could actually do both disciplines. First of all, I love cyborgs. She's amazing. 00:17:55 Speaker 1: So imagine her coming to the, to the ring with Clarissa and then Clarissa going into the cage. 00:18:00 Speaker 2: That would be sick. 00:18:01 Speaker 4: Let's do it. 00:18:02 Speaker 2: Right? 00:18:03 Speaker 4: But, I mean, Cyborg's got, you know, contract PFL, but they allow her to box. 00:18:08 Speaker 2: Right. 00:18:08 Speaker 4: So, to me, let her go try to fight Clarissa at some point. Because she'll do it. Cyborg will do it. She's not afraid of anybody. I can tell you that right now. And neither is Shields. She's not afraid of anybody. So, I mean, it would be amazing. 00:18:20 Speaker 3: Speaking of boxing, obviously the narrative for years has been that MMA fighters, and I want your take on this and how you feel about this, have to step in a boxing ring to make real money, or to make more money, or to make life-changing money, because they're not making it in mixed martial arts. 00:18:37 Speaker 2: And I'm not just talking UFC, right? 00:18:39 Speaker 5: Mixed martial arts. 00:18:42 Speaker 2: One, why is that, right? 00:18:44 Speaker 3: And do you think that that narrative can ever change? Like, will MMA fighters ever make what boxers make? 00:18:53 Speaker 4: You know what? That's, that's a very good question. And I can't really, cause I'm, I'm not a boxing promoter, so I don't really know the economics of like being a real. 00:19:00 Speaker 2: Like, but you've heard of some of the paydays. 00:19:02 Speaker 4: I've heard some of the paydays. It's big. It's very big. 00:19:04 Speaker 6: Right. 00:19:05 Speaker 4: And, and right now it's, it's, um, you know, I think that, well, let's just put it this way. When I look back at the history of what I've paid since I got to MMA only right in 2006, I probably paid $ 500 million in purses to fighters. Right. That's a lot of money. Some people got paid good money. Fedor got paid good money. Cyborg's getting paid good money. Is it boxing money? No, but it's definitely. 00:19:29 Speaker 2: There's one boxer that got paid more than all of that. Double that. Floyd Mayweather. 00:19:34 Speaker 4: Yeah, but you're talking about, you know, he was in a pay-per-view system. Yeah, it's like the pay-per-view system that they had. Like, if he came out today, would it still. 00:19:42 Speaker 2: Be the same? No. 00:19:43 Speaker 4: Because there's no payment. Maybe he was kind of like gone away. 00:19:45 Speaker 2: Right. 00:19:46 Speaker 4: So now

he might've been the last guy to benefit from, Hey, showtime. 00:19:51 Speaker 2: Right. 00:19:51 Speaker 4: Let's be honest. How much do they contribute to boxing? 00:19:53 Speaker 2: Right. 00:19:54 Speaker 4: HBO when they were doing it. 00:19:55 Speaker 2: Right. 00:19:55 Speaker 4: It was like, I remember like, like I love boxing. You guys have to remember, I grew up watching Leonard Hagler, Hearns, Duran. Like that was my era. Right. So to me, I loved, I grew up watching the greatest fights and then the networks got involved. Then they wouldn't fight each other until, you know, they're old, like Tyson and Lennox Lewis. You know what I mean, right? 00:20:15 Speaker 3: You know, it's when OGs talk about boxers, they always name those four boxers. 00:20:20 Speaker 2: Hagler, Hurst, the red, Sugar Ray Lynn. 00:20:22 Speaker 4: No, but even before that, I watched the end of Ali's career. And, you know, like Ali, when he fought, like, you know, Holmes and like that era. Then I watched all the Mike Tyson era. I mean, the greatest, they were just such amazing fights. And, and it was destination viewing, man. It was, You'd get chicken skin just waiting for the fight. It was just such, you know. And there was no social media back then. Think about that. It was just like, it was on TV and you had to open the newspaper and it was on TV. So you had to be a real fan. But it captivated the country. When Mike Tyson fought, it captivated the world. 00:20:56 Speaker 1: That Sunday was always on the first page. Whatever happened with Mike Tyson. Always the first page of every newspaper. 00:21:03 Speaker 4: And then, you know, pay-per-view was already a thing. The first fight between Sheree Leonard and Roberto Durant. I watched the close circuit at the theater. 00:21:12 Speaker 2: Really? 00:21:12 Speaker 4: In my town. No, no, my town. We're in San Jose. 00:21:16 Speaker 2: Oh, okay. 00:21:16 Speaker 4: Where I live. But it was in Montreal. 00:21:19 Speaker 2: At a regular movie theater? 00:21:20 Speaker 4: At a regular movie theater. It was a close circuit. That's how they used to watch. 00:21:23 Speaker 2: Close circuit TV. 00:21:24 Speaker 5: What would they charge you to get into that? 00:21:26 Speaker 4: I think it was like $ 10, $ 15, right? So it was a close circuit. It wasn't pay-per-view on your TV yet, right? So you had to go out to a theater or to a convention center and they played it on the big screen. I mean, when, when, uh, I'll never forget when Hearns fought Pepino Cuevas. Same thing. I went, I was in Tucson, Arizona. I went in there and watched. I said, this is crazy. This thing is packed. It's like 8,000 people. It's convention center watching Cuevas and, and, and they were very happy when they left. Let's put it that way. Cause you know, they, they were as a Pepino Cuevas fan, but Tommy Hearns. 00:22:00 Speaker 2: Wow. 00:22:01 Speaker 4: Wow. 00:22:02 Speaker 2: Right. 00:22:02 Speaker 4: And so, yeah, you talk about OGs, but. I mean, to

me, boxing was like such a big part of my life. 00:22:07 Speaker 2: It was a bigger sport back then as well. 00:22:09 Speaker 1: So a lot of people say, oh, well, MMA came out and it took the steam away from boxing. 00:22:15 Speaker 2: Do you agree? 00:22:16 Speaker 4: Oh, I don't agree. 00:22:17 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:22:18 Speaker 4: How much money did Mayweather make over the last, you know, 20 years? 00:22:22 Speaker 2: I never agreed with that. 00:22:23 Speaker 4: Let's be honest, you know. 00:22:24 Speaker 2: Right. 00:22:24 Speaker 4: Anthony Joshua in the UK, how much money has he made over the last, you know what I mean? 00:22:28 Speaker 2: Eight figures. Yeah. 00:22:29 Speaker 4: So, I mean, it's. To me, it's really star-driven, right? Our sports are star-driven. So if you have a big star, you'll make good money. Does MMA make as much as boxing? Conor McGregor has. He had to box to do it, right? 00:22:43 Speaker 2: In the boxing ring, though. That's my point. Conor was a massive star in the UFC. Right. And when you talk about... He still was a part of an era, him and Ronda, where. 00:22:56 Speaker 3: you know, at Jon Jones where they sold pay-per-views. 00:23:01 Speaker 5: They sold a good amount of pay-per-views, right? So why wasn't. 00:23:07 Speaker 3: The revenue that was generated split the same way it was in the boxing world? Like Jon Jones said it one time, He talked about, and I know this is UFC, but just we're talking MMA. Hey, if I'm selling 800,000 pay-per-views, right, why am I getting paid $ 5 million? Deontay Wilder and Inferior are selling 800, and he's getting paid $ 20 million. 00:23:28 Speaker 4: Well, I think you should go ask Dana White that question. 00:23:30 Speaker 5: All right, so which leads me to this question. 00:23:33 Speaker 3: Like, what has, in your opinion, what don't you like about what Dana has done in the MMA world? 00:23:41 Speaker 4: Well, listen, I mean... I can't really speak to his business because that's what they, they run their business the way I do it. We run it the way I do it. Like when we had Strikeforce, you know, my partners were on the San Jose Sharks. So they were part of a hockey program. So we would pay out 58% of our gross revenue to the fighters. That's right. 00:23:59 Speaker 2: Wow. 00:23:59 Speaker 4: Keep it fair. So if we drove revenues up, we'd pay more money. You know, like you have to have overhead costs. You have to have staff costs. It's like you got to make some money. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. 00:24:08 Speaker 3: But if a guy that's risking his life in a ring should get at least a little bit more of the lion's share. 00:24:13 Speaker 4: Yeah. It hasn't been like that in MMA, but I think things, you know, it's, Hopefully things will change for the better. 00:24:18 Speaker 1: What's up world? It's Barack the Boxing Bully. Big games and big fights are heating up right now. 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No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. 00:25:41 Speaker 2: What are you waiting for? 00:25:42 Speaker 1: Use code ATSFIGHT to download the DraftKings Sports app today and stay in the game. 00:25:47 Speaker 2: The crown is yours. 00:25:49 Speaker 1: Another thing that they say about when they compare boxing and MMA, they say, oh, well, in MMA, the best fight the best. 00:25:56 Speaker 2: What they're really talking about is UFC. They're saying. 00:26:00 Speaker 1: In the UFC, they're seeing the best fight the best. But to me, that's just a promotional company. 00:26:05 Speaker 4: No, no. To me, I feel like the Strikeforce proved that the best don't fight in just one league. 00:26:11 Speaker 2: See, this is what I'm trying to say. 00:26:14 Speaker 1: That's like saying if there was only one promoter in boxing top rank, everybody would fight each other. So years ago, I used to say, well, Michael Venom Page is not fighting anybody in the UFC, and he's the best. So it's not the best fighting the best. It's one promotional company got a whole lot of fighters. 00:26:30 Speaker 2: They fight each other. But there's a whole other promotional company over here who has a whole lot of great fighters. 00:26:37 Speaker 1: But why wasn't, because you've always been somebody who have a reputation of dealing with other promoters. 00:26:43 Speaker 2: Right. Why couldn't that happen back then? Why did he have to go to the UFC in order to fight in the UFC? Why couldn't your guys fight the guys in the UFC? So Bellator versus UFC. 00:26:53 Speaker 4: You know, really

early on, like way back, I mean, that offer was presented. You know, like, hey, we'll fight. 00:26:58 Speaker 2: To you by the UFC? 00:26:59 Speaker 4: No, us to them or, you know, or different people to you. 00:27:01 Speaker 2: Hey. 00:27:02 Speaker 4: But they never, that's not their business model. 00:27:04 Speaker 3: It didn't even go past a conversation like they were not interested at all. 00:27:07 Speaker 2: No. 00:27:08 Speaker 3: So you can't, you know, to your point, Brock, you can't really say we fight the best if there are other guys in other leagues. 00:27:14 Speaker 2: And that, I mean... And his organization, to some degree, boxing. 00:27:17 Speaker 1: But MMA is big, and people are not realizing that. 00:27:20 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's growing. The fan base is growing and growing. Fights all over the world. I mean, there's fights in Japan right now. One promoter, the gentleman that owns Ryzen, he's doing a $ 150 million a year business just in Japan. 00:27:34 Speaker 2: Right? 00:27:34 Speaker 4: Just in Japan, right? 00:27:35 Speaker 2: Wow. 00:27:36 Speaker 4: And he's got his set of fighters that he fights. And you know what? People in Japan know UFC, but they know these Japanese fighters more than they know the UFC fighters. 00:27:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine. 00:27:47 Speaker 4: And when you go to Europe, there's European leagues popping up in here and there. In fact, who was at the soccer player? Not Messi, but... Ronaldo, Ronaldo, he invested in a fight company called wow. In Spain. 00:28:00 Speaker 2: Right. 00:28:00 Speaker 4: So now you're going to see different people start, you know, like I can feel the growth again, worldwide. Yeah. 00:28:07 Speaker 3: When you were at Bellator, did you ever sense that some of these fighters were using Bellator as the next step before going to the UFC wanting, wanting to fight for the UFC? 00:28:20 Speaker 4: I mean, here's the thing, like in strike force. We never lost a fighter that we wanted to lose. I mean, to keep, right? Because really, it's like, if you treat him respectfully and you're fair financially, you'll be able to keep him. 00:28:33 Speaker 2: So he's saying if you left Strikeforce, they didn't care. They wanted you to leave. Or Bellator. 00:28:39 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, in a way. And Bellator, I would say, you know, the one business decision that we had to make was with Michael Chandler, right? And he was getting, you know, towards, I would say, like, you know, like, you know, he, he, he was young enough to fight, but he was in his, I would say mid thirties, you know? And so to me, I felt like, look, he already came, Michael came in and he beat all the lightweights, lightweights we had, right. We could have kept him because any offer that he had, we could have matched it. 00:29:07 Speaker 6: Right. 00:29:07 Speaker 4: And I said, um, to my guys, let's think about this because we could build a whole new division of lightweights, right. And throw a lightweight tournament. And let's develop a new star in the lightweight division. 00:29:19 Speaker 3: With the money that we would have to give him. 00:29:20 Speaker 4: That's right. So we said, okay, we let Michael go. He went to the UFC, which I'm thankful he did because he had a good run. And, you know, he's had a good time there. He's made some good money. He's a great guy, too. Michael's a good dude. 00:29:32 Speaker 2: He seems like it. Good dude. 00:29:34 Speaker 4: Solid guy. And we had great conversations. And, you know, we still chat once in a while on text. but to me it was like it was just a business decision you know it's like it's like you have a great wide receiver right and you're like okay he's gonna cost this much for us on the cap so do i go recruit from you know from you know like from college or do i get another free agent to you know so basically that's that's what the business decision was is like You're like a general manager of a sports league, and you have to make a decision saying, what's the value proposition here, right? And how do I justify this money? And if I can, then I'll keep it. But Michael honestly wiped out our whole lightweight division, you know, because he's that good. And so, you know, it is what it is. But we invested in A.J. McKee, and we invested in all these young lightweights that are the future now, right? 00:30:27 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:30:29 Speaker 4: It's just, it was just, like you said, it's just a business decision. 00:30:31 Speaker 3: Was there one fighter that you actually made a mistake about, like regret letting go? Or, you know, maybe you should have fought more or maybe offered more money. 00:30:41 Speaker 4: Honestly, like in Strikeforce, think about one of the reasons why, you know, they wanted to acquire a company is that we had all the fighters and they didn't leave. 00:30:48 Speaker 2: Right. 00:30:49 Speaker 4: You know, and they tried, believe me, they tried hard. 00:30:52 Speaker 2: Wow. 00:30:53 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:30:54 Speaker 1: What kept them with you guys then? If they tried probably offering them more money, what kept. 00:30:58 Speaker 2: Them with you? 00:30:59 Speaker 4: Well, the thing is, if they offered more money, then maybe we would offer more money too. 00:31:02 Speaker 2: Oh, okay. 00:31:03 Speaker 4: Right? But, you know, not to get into too many details, at the end of the day, it's, fighters are, they want to get paid, but they also want to be treated with respect. And they know they're going to get that here. 00:31:14 Speaker 2: Yes, sir. 00:31:14 Speaker 4: Right? And so, to me, it's like, look, Nick Diaz, right? Alistair Overeem, Fedor Emelianenko, right? It's like, the list goes on. Like, T-Wood, DC, Luke, we had Gilbert, we had Josh. They all stayed until we sold the company, you know? So that was a turning point. 00:31:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, Fado was one of my favorites, Gracie. 00:31:35 Speaker 1: Okay, so it was 2023 when PFL came and they bought Bellator, correct?

00:31:40 Speaker 2: So did you stay on for a while or why didn't you? 00:31:43 Speaker 4: No, you know, I met with Don Davis and Peter Murray, the CEO and the chairman. And, you know, we had like a good three-hour meeting. Nice guys. But I just felt like it's time for me to head in a different direction. I feel like I am an entrepreneur at heart. I'm going to go build something. I'm going to go build my next company. If I want to do it, I'm going to go build my own. I'm not going to basically be an employee. I want to go build my own because I know how to do it. I'm a boss. 00:32:11 Speaker 2: That's what you were saying. 00:32:12 Speaker 4: Well, not that you're a boss, but I feel like if I'm going to do it, I want to do it my way. 00:32:19 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:32:20 Speaker 4: When you have people already in place and a system already in place and infrastructure already in place, you kind of have to fit into that. 00:32:27 Speaker 2: You're not calling any shots. Does that sound like he's wanting to be the boss or what? They don't like the word, though. Maybe he don't like the word. 00:32:35 Speaker 4: But basically, you're going to be in a situation where you're in their infrastructure and their business cycle and the way they do business. 00:32:45 Speaker 2: That's true. 00:32:46 Speaker 4: I feel like I want to start from scratch. 00:32:50 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:32:50 Speaker 4: And I want to build my own ship this time. 00:32:54 Speaker 1: But I brought that up because that was three years. 00:32:57 Speaker 2: Another three-year hiatus, and all of a sudden, now we're back. 00:33:00 Speaker 4: I know. 00:33:01 Speaker 2: With a tournament style, because you mentioned tournament earlier. 00:33:03 Speaker 5: Yeah. 00:33:04 Speaker 1: So what brought you back to this tournament mindset, which I love, by the way? 00:33:07 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what? And thank you, because not every reporter is like that, but... When I explain it to them, I think they get it. And here's what it is for me. 00:33:16 Speaker 2: It's actually the best, if you ask me. It's the best thing. 00:33:19 Speaker 4: You know what I love, man? When Showtime did that Super 6 tournament. 00:33:21 Speaker 3: Oh, man. 00:33:22 Speaker 4: That was awesome, dude. 00:33:24 Speaker 2: That was crazy. 00:33:25 Speaker 4: It made Andre Ward a big star. 00:33:27 Speaker 2: It made him a star. And he got to fight everybody. 00:33:31 Speaker 4: Everybody. 00:33:31 Speaker 1: He literally became on a pound-for-pound list because of that. He got put on a pound-for-pound list because he fought everybody. 00:33:37 Speaker 2: And that's really the only way. I know. 00:33:39 Speaker 4: And so to me, it was like, look, when I grew up, watching MMA. Um, and that was from a K one perspective. I was in Japan watching pride. 00:33:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:33:48 Speaker 4: That's the face of pride was the best league in the world at the time had the best fighters better than the UFC pride. 00:33:54 Speaker 6: Okay. 00:33:55 Speaker 4: You're talking like the who's who of MMA. 00:33:57 Speaker 2: Right. 00:33:58 Speaker 4: And watching, watching them over there. And guess what? It was a tournament at the end of the year. They had a finals. 00:34:03 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:34:04 Speaker 4: Pride had two divisions, heavyweight division and then a welterweight division. And so K one, K1, the company I worked for, was a kickboxing league. And it was a heavyweight tournament all year long. And then at the end, the final night on the first week of December every year, Tokyo Dome sold out 50,000 people in Japan. And it was three fights in one night. You had to fight three times in one night. Single elimination, one night. 00:34:30 Speaker 2: Brutal. But it's still going on. 00:34:34 Speaker 4: So I got to watch the best tournaments in the world. fight each other. And then I got to see the UFC when it first started in 93. And they were doing the same thing. Voice Gracie won. And you know why? Because I've done martial arts when I was a kid. I taught martial arts. And you know what? When I was 14, 15 years old competing, it was like, line up. You two are going to fight. Then whoever wins, then you two are going to fight. It was just a tournament in one day. 00:35:03 Speaker 2: But that's how tournaments are. I fought in tournaments. I fought three, four times in one day. 00:35:07 Speaker 4: And so, jujitsu, same thing. 00:35:09 Speaker 2: But those are long fights, though. 00:35:10 Speaker 3: I mean, as far as boxing and MMA, you're talking about three rounds, five rounds, or 12-round fights. 00:35:17 Speaker 2: I don't know why we're comparing boxing to that. No, even MMA, then. 00:35:21 Speaker 3: Like, you expect an MMA fighter to fight more than once in one night? 00:35:26 Speaker 4: That's what happened. 00:35:27 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:35:28 Speaker 4: They did it. Yeah, they did it. 00:35:29 Speaker 2: Gracie did it. See, you probably don't remember back then, but he did it, bro. 00:35:33 Speaker 4: He fought three times in one night. 00:35:34 Speaker 2: Three real fights, bro. Right. Kimo, he's fighting everybody. Is that not actually too much of a fight? 00:35:40 Speaker 4: No, it's brutal. 00:35:41 Speaker 2: Eventually, they had to stop. 00:35:42 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's brutal. 00:35:43 Speaker 2: Because you can win and get injured. 00:35:45 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:35:46 Speaker 2: And then can't even move on. 00:35:46 Speaker 4: Then you can't move on. But you know what? That's where, when I was in Japan, they said, look, he has to test his inner strength. 00:35:56 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:35:56 Speaker 4: To be able to continue. 00:35:58 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:35:58 Speaker 4: He could give up, but does he have the Bushido spirit? 00:36:01 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:36:02 Speaker 4: And are you going to continue? Because, you know, as a fighter, you could go, I don't want to do it anymore. I'm I'm done. Right. Or you say, I'm going to suck it up and I'm going to go

give it my all and try to heal up and get ready for the next round. So, you know, to me, going back to the tournament is what that's about. Going back to like, to me, I saw some of the best fights in those tournaments. And tournaments, as you guys know, build stars, which I'm really interested in. Exactly. 00:36:32 Speaker 1: You can like somebody, right? But then you don't know when they're going to fight again. You can kind of forget about them a little bit. But when you know the schedule and you know the next opponent, you can anticipate. And that's how you start following a guy. And that's what I liked about the Super Six. The WBC did a tournament in Saudi Arabia called the Grand Prix. That was one of the best things I've ever seen. I think it should always be like. 00:36:55 Speaker 4: I agree. And you know, one thing about this, like in today's social world, right? It's like not only the fights, but what about the storytelling between the fights that you can create now and keep that storyline going all year long. So if you're winning, guess what? By the end of the year, you're going to be a big star. 00:37:09 Speaker 2: Yep. 00:37:10 Speaker 4: If you do your part, we do our part. 00:37:12 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:37:12 Speaker 4: You're going to have a new star. 00:37:14 Speaker 2: Have you found the next star in MMA yet? 00:37:17 Speaker 3: Is there somebody that you're ironing that you're like, yo, this kid is. 00:37:21 Speaker 4: Going to be special? We have our eyes on a couple of people right now. And we're, myself, Rich is our global head of fighter relations. But we have two or three scouts out there right now, too. 00:37:37 Speaker 2: Are they American or different countries? 00:37:38 Speaker 4: No, no, no. They're all over the world. Because I'm not just looking for the next US star. This company will have TV deals in Japan. We'll have TV deals in Korea. We'll have TV deals in China. We'll have TV deals here in North America. We'll have TV deals in Europe. And when the war gets over in Russia, we'll have TV deals in the CIS territories. We'll have deals in global and Brazil. I mean, to me, martial arts is worldwide. Just like boxing, it's worldwide. There's no geographical boundaries for MMA. 00:38:04 Speaker 2: So let's talk about this company. 00:38:07 Speaker 3: Is it $ 60 million that you guys received to start to kick things off? 00:38:10 Speaker 4: To start, we raised $ 60 million in the first round. 00:38:15 Speaker 1: But you have to explain that to us because 60 million, because we're in boxing, doesn't sound like a lot. 00:38:21 Speaker 2: We don't know what that looks like. 00:38:23 Speaker 1: You know, 60 million is maybe a purse for two fighters. 00:38:26 Speaker 4: Well, you know, the thing is, like, people say, oh, well, PFL has already invested so much money, won championships, you know. I mean, big, big dollars in the hole. I said, well, you know what? The difference between, like, what we're doing and what they're doing

is that I think we know how to make money, too. What's wrong with making money, guys? What's wrong with running a profitable business? To me, it's like, for me, it's a little bit, I feel like I have a little advantage because there's no learning curve for me. I'm jumping right into it, and I know exactly what to do. I think those companies that came in before, super smart guys, Harvard grads, but you know what? They didn't know the business. So it took them like two years. And before you know it, they're $ 100 million in the hole, right? We're not going to be, we know what we're doing. We know how to do this. 00:39:08 Speaker 1: So you're going to take that 60 million and be very efficient with it. 00:39:12 Speaker 4: Absolutely. And we're going to start making money. We're not going to, I'm not going to be like, Hey, this is guys. Thanks for the 60 million. And I'll come see you in two years when we need round two. 00:39:22 Speaker 2: Right. 00:39:23 Speaker 4: I don't want there to be a round two. To me, this is about making money too. How can you pay your fighters well if you're not making money? The fighters and the promoters is a partnership. 00:39:34 Speaker 2: I mean, you have a proven track record already. Yeah. 00:39:36 Speaker 4: And you know what? It's like, look, we're probably one of the few companies that have made money in combat sports for MMA. So we're going to continue to do it. And we're going to do it the right way. Take care of the fighters that we have. The tournament will be efficient, and it'll be, you know, the fighters will get paid, but there'll be a big pot at the end of the rainbow, right? So, you know, it's going to be fun to watch, good storytelling along the way. But at the end of the day, too, this is something I love, but it's also a business that we're going to have to make money. 00:40:07 Speaker 2: Is it going to be like the Super 6? The Super 6, how they focused on one weight class? Yes. And what weight class is that? 00:40:14 Speaker 4: I can't tell you right now. Oh, okay. 00:40:16 Speaker 2: But you have an idea. We don't know the name of this organization yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't know the weight class yet. 00:40:23 Speaker 3: Do we know roughly around when you want to launch the show? 00:40:27 Speaker 4: I'll tell you what, though. It will be a lighter weight class. 00:40:29 Speaker 2: A lighter weight class. Okay. Yeah. 00:40:30 Speaker 4: And I'll tell you why. And you'll get it. And you'll say, you know what? This kid might know what he's talking about. Because we want Asia to be able to participate. Right? 00:40:39 Speaker 2: Right. 00:40:40 Speaker 4: Because if you go 185, 205. 00:40:43 Speaker 2: Tough. 00:40:44 Speaker 4: There's no fighters that are that heavy, right? 00:40:46 Speaker 2: Exactly. 00:40:47 Speaker 4: There are some, but it's very few. But the lighter weight classes, Asia can participate. And you know what? Big license fees in Asia for television for fighting. 00:40:56 Speaker 2: Right. 00:40:56 Speaker 4: Combat sports is in their DNA, right? 00:40:58 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:40:59 Speaker 4: So that's why we're starting with, you know, it's an economic decision. 00:41:01 Speaker 2: Trying to make money right away. 00:41:02 Speaker 4: $ 126, 000. 00:41:02 Speaker 2: That's a little higher. 00:41:03 Speaker 4: Okay. 00:41:04 Speaker 2: So what are we looking at? 2027? Yeah, we're going to start in 2027. Mm-hmm. But first quarter? 00:41:14 Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. We're going to come right out of the box. 00:41:16 Speaker 6: Boxing fans, mark your calendars. Ryan Garcia puts his welterweight world title on the line against hard-hitting top contender, Conor Benn. Plus, undefeated Australian superstar, Jai Opetiah takes on Noel McAlean, all live on Paramount +. 00:41:33 Speaker 2: Saturday, September 12th. 00:41:35 Speaker 6: After years of bad blood between Garcia and Benn, the feud reaches a boiling point in one. 00:41:40 Speaker 2: Of the biggest fights of the year. 00:41:42 Speaker 4: The best part? 00:41:43 Speaker 2: There's no pay-per-view. 00:41:45 Speaker 6: The entire event is included in your Paramount Plus subscription. Saturday, September 12th, stream Zufa Boxing's Ryan Garcia vs. 00:41:54 Speaker 5: Conor Bent live on Paramount Plus. 00:42:02 Speaker 1: You've done so much already. You've started companies. You've made them multi-million dollar companies. Are you excited now as you were back then? 00:42:13 Speaker 4: I think I'm more excited now and I'll tell you why, because now I have all this experience under my belt to do it right. Before I was like, when I was in strike force, we had five employees and me, and that was it. And we're out there getting just beat up by the big guys. And you know, like, it's like, but we're out there doing our thing and you're getting beat, you know, it's like a fight. Right. So, you know, and then Bellator was different cause it's owned by Viacom and you know, it's like that, that took its course away then. But if you think about all the experience I've gained over all the years, I'm bringing that to the table now. 00:42:42 Speaker 2: Right. 00:42:43 Speaker 4: And I'm really excited about my partners because like the group that we put together, including employees, I call it my Avengers group. I got the top, top, top in every, in every, in every department. And so to me, it's like, you don't need to be top heavy. You don't need to have, you know, a zillion employees to run a fight company efficiently. 00:43:02 Speaker 2: Right. Right. 00:43:03 Speaker 4: You need to have enough, but you, if you have the right people, you can get by with a very, very, you know, streamlined operation. And so, to me, the knowledge we have, and we don't hire people. We're not going to hire people that have to have a learning curve. If you don't know this business, then we're not going to be in business. 00:43:21 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:43:21 Speaker 3: Right? 00:43:22 Speaker 4: It's like, you

have to be able to hit the ground running with us. Otherwise, we're going to have to stop and teach you along the way. It doesn't make sense. 00:43:32 Speaker 1: You spoke earlier about, you know, it's not just about money and paying the fighters. 00:43:37 Speaker 2: It's about giving the fighters the respect that they want. 00:43:40 Speaker 1: So after all of these years, you've seen these guys that you groomed early, and now they're superstars or maybe even past their prime now and retired. 00:43:49 Speaker 2: Are there any of them that you still have a great connection with? And when they see you, they're like, this is the guy that started me. 00:43:54 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, of course. Like who? Well, I see like Daniel Cormier and I. Oh, wow. He owes me a cream barbecue, by the way. 00:44:05 Speaker 2: Really? 00:44:05 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's going to have to buy. He always makes me buy. Pay the man, please. Yeah, Daniel, you're going to have to pay the next one, you know? But, you know, we don't make it too public. We just, you know, he's doing his thing. I'm doing my thing. But, you know, we're still friends and cordial. It's like I'm still in the martial arts community. He's still in the martial arts community. It's like you run into each other at different events and stuff. And you know what? I stay in touch with T-Wood a lot. T-Wood is really a good friend, and he's trying to do something with another company. But I said, hey, we might have something for you here too. Like, you know, let's just stay in touch. But Fedor, Hoist Gracie. 00:44:35 Speaker 2: Cool. 00:44:36 Speaker 4: You know, my role is pretty good. It's pretty good. 00:44:40 Speaker 5: Who's the most surprising MMA star? 00:44:43 Speaker 3: Maybe a fighter that you didn't think that much of that wound up being an overachiever? 00:44:50 Speaker 4: That's a tough one. That's a tough one. I mean, you know, like, for instance, when you saw, like, Cyborg, you knew she was going to be great. 00:44:58 Speaker 2: Oh, from the beginning. 00:44:59 Speaker 4: And let me tell you, when I saw Ronda Rousey fighting for the first two, three times, I said, this girl is amazing. 00:45:04 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:45:04 Speaker 4: Because she has that Olympic judo martial arts level of like, it's like mastery level, honestly. So once she grabs you, we're going to be, you're going to be in trouble. So, so to me, I saw things and that's why we invested in them. And that's why we signed and build them because we saw something in them, you know, you know, who might be, and we're just talking about it, but it might, it might be, it might be Daniel Cormier. And I'll tell you why. Cause when I met him, we were at a pizza parlor in San Jose, his manager, me and Daniel, And he had just come from OSU wrestling. He was a coach and he's sitting there and we're talking and he, and he, he might've been like two 60 at that time. 00:45:44 Speaker 6: Right. 00:45:44 Speaker 4: Big, you know, it wasn't training and, and so it didn't look at shade, but he could talk. 00:45:50 Speaker 2: Right. 00:45:51 Speaker 4: So I go, but Daniels, I got to use the restroom. So I go, Bob, are you sure this guy could fight? Like, you know, he doesn't look like a fire. Cause you know, you think he goes, well, You know, he's kind of got the Fedor look, you know, to him. He doesn't have like that, you know, Adonis body or whatever. I said, I go, he, I go, he should sound like a commentator. He should be a commentator. 00:46:10 Speaker 2: He's great. Right. 00:46:12 Speaker 4: But he goes, I go, can he fight Bob? Bob said, I don't know, but he could wrestle. Right. I said, okay. So we put it in fights, you know, like basically started working on his career and he has some tough fights and Bill. Then one day I watched him fight against, um, Jeff Munson. in our tournament. And, I said, this guy looks like a kickboxer now. 00:46:36 Speaker 2: Right? 00:46:37 Speaker 4: So, he had a wrestling background only. He had no martial arts fighting at all. Zero. No martial arts training, no wrestling only. So now he's a kickboxer. So now he's, he's learning, AKA, killer gym, right? He's in the training with King Velasquez and Habib Nurmagomedov and Luke Rockholz and like Kung Lee's and you know, just like killers, right? So it's the gym of the gym. And so, Daniel's in there doing his thing. So within a year and a half, two years, he starts becoming a very well-rounded martial arts fighter. 00:47:07 Speaker 2: He's evolved. 00:47:08 Speaker 4: He's evolving. And you know what? He put the time in because, you know, to me, the wrestler, one of the things that's dangerous for them is the jujitsu game. 00:47:15 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:47:16 Speaker 4: Because they're so used to wrestling, take someone down, and then that's when the jujitsu guy starts working his, you know, his stuff, right? So to me, it's like, you know, and then he gets, he starts learning jujitsu and he starts getting good at it. So now he's a complete, complete martial artist, right? With Olympic-level wrestling skills, right? 00:47:32 Speaker 2: Right. 00:47:33 Speaker 4: And so, to me, I was so proud of him because, you know, as an MMA fighter, you know, like, you shouldn't have just one discipline and that's your discipline, right? Even boxing. You should thrive to be a great boxer, too. Great kickboxer and great jiu-jitsu guy. Great wrestler. You put all that together, that's mixed martial arts, right? 00:47:51 Speaker 1: But wouldn't you say that there's a lot of guys who are very skillful in different areas and different disciplines, but boxing seems to be the less. 00:48:00 Speaker 2: known or, um, learned in MMA? 00:48:04 Speaker 4: I think that it's, it's something to me that should be just as important, right? Cause a great striker with the hands is a dangerous athlete. You guys know, one punch knockout or a combination. It's like, it's just that, you know? And so, yeah. Have we seen that level of boxing, like

world-class boxing? in MMA? I don't think so. Not yet. 00:48:24 Speaker 2: There was a guy named Pat Brown. 00:48:26 Speaker 1: Wasn't he a boxer back when Gracie was fighting? 00:48:31 Speaker 2: But back then, it was different. It wasn't like MMA. It was like we brought different martial arts and we mixed them together. It wasn't like you know all these hearts. 00:48:44 Speaker 1: It was kind of disrespectful to not just know one thing. 00:48:47 Speaker 4: When I grew up, It was like taekwondo versus karate. 00:48:53 Speaker 2: Exactly. Versus kung fu. 00:48:54 Speaker 4: We hated taekwondo. 00:48:55 Speaker 2: My style was the best style. We hated kung fu. 00:48:57 Speaker 4: Right? 00:48:57 Speaker 2: Exactly. 00:48:58 Speaker 4: But what Hoist Gracie and Mixed Martial Arts proved is, no, no, no. You guys are all wrong. 00:49:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:49:03 Speaker 4: And there's only one style. 00:49:04 Speaker 2: They changed the game. 00:49:05 Speaker 4: They changed the game. And basically what they said is, you need to learn jiu-jitsu. And then guess what? Then the wrestlers came, right? This is like the chronological order. It's like, then the wrestlers came and they started taking the guys and just ground and pound. The whole, the, the, the name no holes barred was what it was called. And then, so you had the ground and pound era, right? And that was the Mark Coleman and the curse and just the wrestlers physicality was very tough to deal with. 00:49:29 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:49:30 Speaker 4: And then, and then what happened within Maury Smith comes in and head kick Konek, knocked him out. 00:49:35 Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. 00:49:36 Speaker 4: And then he'd be Mark Coleman. 00:49:38 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:49:39 Speaker 4: And, Basically, they said, oh, I got to learn. So the fighter goes, the wrestler goes, oh, I better learn how to do jiu-jitsu and I better learn how to kickbox. Yeah. 00:49:46 Speaker 1: Then in the midst of all of that, you got Tank and Kimbo Slice and all these guys are like, nah, I don't want to learn none of that. 00:49:53 Speaker 2: I just want to come in and pound you out. And you know what? 00:49:55 Speaker 4: And they did such a good job of that. 00:49:57 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 00:49:58 Speaker 4: They could do it. They're that dangerous. Right. And let me say, when I think of Kimbo, I really miss that guy because he was really special, man. I'm not sure if you guys had a chance to meet him. 00:50:06 Speaker 2: No, no. 00:50:08 Speaker 4: I can't explain the amount of energy and love that came out of that guy, you know, and people just loved him. 00:50:14 Speaker 2: Right. 00:50:15 Speaker 4: It wasn't the back. I mean, yeah, it was a backyard fights and all this, but when you saw him, like we'd go to, uh, doing it like a radio hit or an autograph signing for him. And it was like just this magnetism that he brought and this energy and this love that he brought for people that everybody's just like, you know, loved him. I can't explain it, man. I just can't explain it. Like they just loved him. It was, It was a beautiful thing to watch, honestly. 00:50:38 Speaker 3: I got an extra opinion on this as a promoter, right? Conor McGregor comes back from a long hiatus. Obviously, he talks the talk, right? And then this happens in this comeback fight. 00:50:52 Speaker 2: Injury within. 00:50:53 Speaker 3: I don't know how many seconds within that fight. It was his first kick. It was his first kick. 00:50:57 Speaker 4: He tried to do a roundhouse kick, right? 00:50:59 Speaker 3: So what do you say, you know, in a post-fight press conference, if that's your card, your fighter to... the public, to the fans that spend so much money on the pay-per-view, how do you respond to the public? 00:51:12 Speaker 4: Well, then you go, hey, good thing it was on Paramount Plus and you didn't have to pay pay-per-view money for that. 00:51:16 Speaker 2: Right. 00:51:17 Speaker 4: No, but injuries happen in every sport, right? And MMA is a tough sport to do because you've got to wrestle, you've got to kick, you've got to strike, you've got to do all these things in great transition too, right? So when he was doing that kick... He's done that kick probably a million times in his career. 00:51:37 Speaker 2: Of course. 00:51:38 Speaker 4: He was in the back warming up doing that kick. I'm not sure if you guys saw it. 00:51:41 Speaker 2: No. 00:51:42 Speaker 4: But he's like doing this, like a roundhouse kick. And I'm like, okay, then he's doing it on both sides. So when I was watching him warm up, he was doing that exact same move. 00:51:51 Speaker 3: See, which kind of deads the narrative of him being injured already. People are saying online. He was injured already. That injury existed already. He wouldn't have been able to. 00:52:01 Speaker 2: Do all that. 00:52:02 Speaker 4: Go back and watch the warmups. Yeah. He was already, he was, he was doing, doing those kicks and he, and he was doing it well. So is he done? I don't think he's done. I think, and you guys will get this. There's going to be a fire in him right now, more than ever to make it, to make that wrong or right. And, and, and it's, it's, I don't think as a fighter, you could just leave having the legacy that you created. 00:52:27 Speaker 2: Right. 00:52:28 Speaker 4: And the impact that you made in the martial arts world, and leave it just on an injury like that. I don't think you could do that. 00:52:34 Speaker 2: I have to ask you real quick. 00:52:35 Speaker 3: Terrence Crawford, a good friend of ours, obviously him and Conor had, they went back and forth. Conor publicly said that he supposedly was offered a two-fight deal for $ 200 million, one in the ring, one in the cage against Bud. 00:52:51 Speaker 2: Bud claims he never really got that offer, that that wasn't true. 00:52:56 Speaker 3: What do you think about that two-fight deal? 00:52:59 Speaker 4: You mean Crawford and McGregor? 00:53:00 Speaker 2: Yeah,

yeah. 00:53:01 Speaker 4: I'd pay to watch it. I'd pay to watch both of them, you know? And so it's like, look, in a boxing fight, I don't know how well it would work out for Conor. 00:53:10 Speaker 2: We all know how that would play out. 00:53:11 Speaker 4: But in an MMA fight, I don't know how well it would work out for Crawford either. But it'd be fun to watch, wouldn't it? I would love that fight. That would be amazing. I mean, to me, it's like when he fought Mayweather, hey, Mayweather, why don't you fight him in the MMA now? 00:53:23 Speaker 2: Right. 00:53:24 Speaker 4: You know, you fought Conor when it was 10, 11 rounds, whatever. But, you know, it's like, why don't you reverse the role here and test yourself as a martial artist, too? 00:53:34 Speaker 1: Do you think that's where, speaking of that fight, do you think that's where the switch for Conor happened? Like where, okay, he made $ 85 million or whatever it was, and now all of a sudden MMA was on a back burner? 00:53:48 Speaker 4: I think that, who said it best? Was it? Was it Marvin Hagel? He said, it's hard to get out of bed at five in the morning when you have silk pajamas on or whatever. I mean, for anybody, let's be real. Especially a warrior like that. Because you guys know the sacrifice, the pain, the denial that you have to have to be a great fighter. It's unusual. It's not a usual thing. So you're suffering and sacrificing and sparring and that amount of giving to the sport and getting ready for all these matches is a very painful experience. 00:54:27 Speaker 1: But to not really be beaten, to be beaten by injuries in the last couple of fights, that has to be incredibly frustrating. 00:54:34 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's frustrating. And I'm saying because the question was, do you think he'll come back? I think yes. 00:54:39 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it would be a nice story for him to end off with a big win on top, but To your point, you know, he has proper 12 that are supposedly doing very well. What's the name of his spot in Ireland? The Black Forge? Yeah, something like that. You know, he's doing well financially. And kids to raise now, why put yourself through the rigorous training? 00:55:02 Speaker 2: It's more than just money. 00:55:04 Speaker 4: You know what it is? It's more than just money. 00:55:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. 00:55:06 Speaker 3: But he's proven enough, I would say, in my opinion, in the cage. You want to prove to yourself, too. Yeah, but the problem with our... brutal sports, right? But this MMA and boxing is, we want the fighter to give the sport everything. Everything he has until he has nothing left, which is why I love guys like, you know, like Andre Ward and now. 00:55:28 Speaker 2: Terrence Crawford with a win over Canelo saying, that's it, I'm ending it here. Now, yes, I don't- Just because they always won, they still give it all. Right. Andre Ward fought till his body told him he couldn't fight anymore. I get it. 00:55:40 Speaker 5: So obviously, obviously, obviously, Conor McGregor. 00:55:45 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:55:46 Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. Just did a roundhouse kick and got injured. So maybe, hey, I don't have it anymore. I don't know. But you you want to know. You want to know for sure. You want to know for sure. At what cost? Your health. 00:55:59 Speaker 4: I mean, that's really. 00:56:00 Speaker 2: You get into the game knowing that. 00:56:02 Speaker 4: But that's up to him. 00:56:02 Speaker 2: Right. 00:56:03 Speaker 4: That's his choice. And his camp and it. I know his trainer, and they're like a family. I'm sure they're having conversations like a family, but I don't think a fighter at Conor's level can go out just on injury. 00:56:16 Speaker 2: Is he the biggest star MMA he's ever seen? 00:56:19 Speaker 4: Come on. Think about this. No, Bruce Lee was bigger. Let's put it that way. 00:56:23 Speaker 2: No, but I'm talking about... I had. 00:56:25 Speaker 4: To just say that. 00:56:25 Speaker 2: That was nice. That was nice. 00:56:27 Speaker 4: Because Bruce was like 50 years ago, and Bruce was doing MMA back then, right? He was doing everything, and so... For modern day fighting, let's be honest, in the impact of MMA and eyeballs around the world, there was Conor McGregor and there's everybody else. 00:56:43 Speaker 2: Right. 00:56:43 Speaker 4: Hands down. 00:56:44 Speaker 2: Right. 00:56:44 Speaker 4: I don't care what your name is or who your name is. There's Conor McGregor and there's everybody else. And you know what? There was a time where, you know, let's face it, he crossed over to cultural pop icon. 00:56:56 Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, that's true. 00:56:57 Speaker 4: He crossed over. 00:56:58 Speaker 2: He did. 00:56:58 Speaker 4: Right? 00:56:59 Speaker 2: So if he was a free agent. Yeah. Would you guys make an offer? 00:57:03 Speaker 4: We'd definitely have a conversation. But I can't have a conversation with him because he's still on the contract, right? 00:57:07 Speaker 2: Right, right, right. 00:57:08 Speaker 4: But any free agents that's out there, we want to have a conversation. But, like, I was, you know, me and my friends were talking about this and we were talking about that McGregor era when, you know, when he was knocking people out and, you know, and then doing. 00:57:18 Speaker 2: The Aldo knockout. 00:57:19 Speaker 4: There's nobody bigger. 00:57:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a massive star. 00:57:22 Speaker 4: There's Conor McGregor and there's everybody else. 00:57:24 Speaker 3: Right, right. 00:57:24 Speaker 4: As far as popularity, I'm talking about people that have moved the needle. 00:57:27 Speaker 2: Right, of course. You know? 00:57:28 Speaker 4: Yeah, it doesn't mean there wasn't great fighters because there's a lot of great fighters and I've seen a lot of great fights. But you're talking about like a pay-per-view driver? 00:57:36 Speaker 2: Crossover, yeah, like that. 00:57:37 Speaker 4: So before that. 00:57:38 Speaker 2: And then Ronda Rousey? 00:57:40 Speaker 4: And Ronda was the other one. 00:57:42 Speaker 2: Would there be another? 00:57:43 Speaker 4: Of course, yeah, there will be. 00:57:45 Speaker 2: And you're going to build them. 00:57:46 Speaker 4: Although, yeah, we will definitely build them. It's a different... Like, here's what I don't see. Like, I don't see the shoulder program. I don't see the media tours. I don't see, like, all the stuff it takes to do a big pay-per-view because it's not on pay-per-view anymore. It's on... it's on an app and you can get it for free with all the other channels. So I don't, you know, to me, it's like, got to get back to star building. 00:58:08 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:58:09 Speaker 5: Yeah. 00:58:09 Speaker 3: I mean, the show, the program, I think a lot of it happens on social media too, with, with the fighters, like not produce programming, but you know, this is how you keep up. 00:58:20 Speaker 4: So are you. 00:58:22 Speaker 2: Are you guys planning on, on producing some show? 00:58:25 Speaker 4: For sure. For sure. 00:58:26 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:58:26 Speaker 4: We're going to, we're going to, you know, this tournament is going to be invite only. So from the time you get the invitation to enter the tournament, we're going to start filming at that point. Yeah, it's going to be fun. And then we'll follow your journey all the way to the tournament. And then if you win. 00:58:40 Speaker 2: How long is this tournament? Is it one year? 00:58:43 Speaker 4: One year. It'll end by December. 00:58:46 Speaker 2: So we're starting in January then, 2027. 00:58:48 Speaker 4: All right, we're going to. 00:58:49 Speaker 2: Slip that one through. We're going to get a couple things from you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the next couple months, we'll get a name. We'll get some fighters' names. 00:58:57 Speaker 4: And I tell you, we've had some great names. But the problem is you start giving it to lawyers. They start you know, checking all the, it's like somebody's using it already, or like, you know, like, it's just like, it was, yeah. 00:59:09 Speaker 2: Number starts going up, we want more. 00:59:11 Speaker 4: Just creating a name wasn't the issue. It was clearing the name. That's the issue. And so, it's taken us a long time, but I feel really good about where it's heading. Well, we're looking forward to seeing what you've made up, man. 00:59:23 Speaker 2: Scott Colbert. 00:59:24 Speaker 4: Thank you.