บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Things We Do When We're Alone | Review Everything S2E9

maybe we'll get into it, but like I, so there was this dude in college and I knew him. did, we did one thing together. Okay. We went to a metric concert at my school together. We saw metric and he was like a pretty chill dude. And I logged onto Facebook one day and this dude slipped and hit his head on a waterfall and died. Like that was the first time I was like, this is a young person I know that died and it terrified me. And that has happened multiple times now in my life with different people. speaker-0: Like, and just- speaker-1: So just be careful around waterfalls kids, they're fun. You push on a waterfall, didn't ⁓ speaker-0: What we doing today? Do you have a plan for it? I think about this probably once a day. It's on my room. speaker-1: I the Cascadia quick a lot. And I think about, should have more food on hand just in case. Mostly I think about where I can be outside that has no power lines. I think my house would probably do pretty okay based on the way it was constructed, but. speaker-0: The primary thing I think about is like rendezvous points and like setting expectations on like what's going to happen as far as like, if, like, if you don't show up in the rendezvous point, because I think the way it's split, depending on if you have a partner and where their work is, like very likely, like if you were working eight hours a day, it's a good chance I have to work and then you're, then you're just like, where are going? speaker-1: Yeah. It's funny, you know, my wife and I have discussed what happens in a zombie attack and that's we both go to Bainbridge Island because it's, we know folks that have guns there, but we never really talk about earthquake plans. But you don't want to get on I-5 because I-5 is a mess when there's not an earthquake. I mean, like pieces of it are probably still there. We should do a whole, okay, we should, when we find the right topic, we should do the Cascadia Quake because I feel like there's a lot of, there's a lot of good content. speaker-0: Yeah, you don't want to go to an island, you want to get away. I-I-I-5's gone. I-I-I-5's gone. It's not going be traversable. speaker-1: mind in there. anyways, like and subscribe. If you caused the Cascadia quake by doing that, then that really just proves that we have more influence than we thought we did. And that's both cool, humbling, and terrifying. So do that, share this part with your friends, give us a rating, all that good stuff. I also want to plug, I have a second podcast, Storytime with Ash. It's terrible name, but I don't have a better one yet. I might rename it later. But it is this latest episode, I talked to the narrator of my new audio book. The dark humor will continue until morale improves. 10 short stories about fascism, corporate fuckery. It is going to be coming out on June 2nd, but I talked to Joel Simler, the guy who narrated it, and we listened to one of the stories he did. It was hilarious. And he had some really great stories about how sometimes the best insulation for your sound booth at home can be found in dumpsters. he, for his very first sound booth, he went dumpster diving in an industrial dumpster outside of his work and then shoved it all in a closet and built his recording booth there. So really good stories and fun guy and I'm really excited about that collection. You want to pre-order it. The ebook is up for pre-order now. You can just search the dark humor will continue until morale improves. is anywhere that you will get ebooks. It is not going to be in paperback because it is too short and half the proceeds go to act blue so that we can evict that fascist from office. that's a yeah. speaker-0: If you ever do a remodel and you open up your wall and you wonder why there's like refuse. Refuse? Yeah. Refuse in it. It's because for a similar reason, the construction people are empowered because it's just noise dampening and maybe insulation in areas where you obviously you wouldn't have insulation. And so they just put the garbage in the house. speaker-1: And like my, know a friend who was remodeling a house in Denver and they peeled the wallpaper back and it was just old newspapers covering the wall. So they found newspapers from like the, I think it was like the 1900s and stuff just on their walls, which was very cool. ⁓ Anyways, today's topic is things we do when we're alone. I suggested this because unexpectedly I was alone. Well, I mean, the first one was expected, but I I've been alone for two weekends in a row and it was nothing like the television show. alone and I wasn't prepared so I thought this would be a fun topic. speaker-0: Poor guy had so many fish, man. I think I talked about- speaker-1: So many fish, he could have made it, he was so sad. Shout out to Alone, not a sponsor of this podcast, but a great show that you should go watch. It's like Survivor, but with less rules, and you're alone. speaker-0: wanna talk about Survivor. Are you going first or am I going first? speaker-1: Let's see. I'll go first. think you went first last week. speaker-0: Now I think mine is shorter and more light-hearted. speaker-1: Okay, that's good. We'll use it to bring us back up. This one is so I'm going to go, I'm going go into my brain a little bit today. So I had, I had big plans for this podcast and, and I had bits and so many bits because I knew, I knew that my wife was going to leave me alone for the weekend. Like I was going to have the house to myself for two, three days. And I was, I was like, I am, I'm going to do so many dumb things while she is gone. I'm gonna record like seven different intro songs for Review Everything. I'm gonna make Sam's soup bits. I'm gonna maybe drive to Longhorn Steakhouse. I'm gonna drive the seven hours with my dogs to Longhorn Steakhouse. speaker-0: Wait, you didn't, was that actually something? speaker-1: That's something that crossed my mind and we'll kind of get to like, this is, this is hypomania to a degree. So I was like, this

is going to be glorious. This is going to be the pinnacle of content creation. I'm going to, I'm going to rock Connor's world when we come in here. And I have fuck all because what actually happened is, is, is my topic for today, which is oscillating between hypomania and crippling self-doubt, also known as my ADHD spiral. And the category, which I will say upfront is brain. speaker-0: Okay, okay. speaker-1: And I kinda wanted to walk you through- speaker-0: Good top level category. speaker-1: Yeah, at the top I gave you a category so you can set it as your reference point now. So this is what happens in the week leading up to my wife being gone. It's Wednesday when I realized that this is happening despite the fact that it's been on the calendar for months, right? That's when I really clock like, okay, this is happening. And I'm like, ⁓ man, I'm going to be so creative. I'm going to edit. I've been working on a manuscript for a while. like, I'm going to finish that whole manuscript this weekend. I'm just going to plug in Jack into the matrix and I'm going to do all these things. Then on Thursday. I'm still riding high and I'm like, but you know, also like I went to therapy on Thursday and I was like, I should take time for myself and I should, I should make sure to do some self care, but also I'm going to be very creative and I'm going to do all of this shit, all of these things. I'm going to do them. And then Friday comes and rubber is hitting road and I get off work and I'm like, okay, I should wait until tomorrow because I'm, pretty burnt out from work right now. Now's a good time for self care. I'm going to watch the new Jurassic park, any ice cream instead. ⁓ like honestly, pretty good decision. The New Jurassic Park, not very good, but also like not bad. And I felt good having watched it and I was like, I feel creatively fueled. I'm ready for this. And then I wake up on Saturday morning and this is where the spiral starts. So Saturday morning I wake up, I have my first cup of coffee. I am, I'm ready. I'm going to sit down and work on this manuscript. And I realized that I'm not a good writer. This manuscript is trash. The podcast I'm making is stupid. These bits are stupid. I'm an idiot. I shouldn't have done any of these things ever. And I like there's no point in any of it because everything I produce is going to be trash. And I've been diluting myself into thinking that I can do these things. And so I spend the bulk of the morning thinking about that and playing Pokemon sleep. I'm just like constantly checking my Pokemon for a dopamine hit. It's clearly I can't do any of the things I set out to do because none of those are real anymore. Saturday afternoon rolls around and I'm and like I started to come back up. ⁓ I've got this I'm gonna clean everything in the house I'm gonna do a shit ton of yard work and then I'll be ready So I like go to Home Depot get plant starts plant my whole garden I build a raised bed out back and like water a

bunch of shit and then I come inside and I'm like alright I did all my chores I can relax the dogs are tired and then I realized I've had nothing but coffee and half a glass of water for an entire day and I've been up since ⁓ 650 in the morning and I like it's it's 1 or 2 p.m. And I've had half a glass of water and three cups of coffee and I feel like I'm gonna die and So then I'm like, alright I have to I have to chug water and sit in my chair and play slave the spire and just like slowly rehydrate myself as a human being because I literally think I'm going to die because the anxiety is kicking in and Then Saturday evening rolls around and I'm like, okay, I'm hydrated but everything's trash again I hate, like I hate, I hate it all. can't do it. There's no way. The Saturday night, I should probably watch a documentary about the Manosphere and eat ice cream. So I watched a documentary about the Manosphere and I eat the rest of the ice cream from Friday night. speaker-0: So I have a question. Can I have question on that? Cause I do want to, I think I told you, so Louis Thoreau, he's like a British guy. He's been doing stuff for like 15 years. He got big on TikTok, but someone asked him to do a rap cause he did a rap one time. And then my money, money, it folds. doesn't jiggle that guy. That's the... speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about him doing a rap on TikTok, but that sounds right. He did like part of this documentary was him kind of getting got on TikTok a little bit. speaker-0: So my question though is, why that show? Because that doesn't strike me as a thing that I'd want to necessarily watch while- speaker-1: Yeah, so I just went on Netflix and I was like, what pops up first that grabs my interest? I like, love that. speaker-0: That seems right. I like knowledge. speaker-1: And so I put it on and cut to late Saturday night. I'm tired. haven't done anything creative. And I start wondering, am I part of the Manosphere? I'm, I am a bearded fellow with a podcast with another man. And then I think about those, those people that got mad at me in the comments of our short about getting our ass kicked in high school and how it was formative and we thought it was a good thing. And I'm like, Oh my God, am I, am I perpetuating this? Am I the Manosphere? Am I a shithead? And it's like, I am a shithead. This podcast is terrible. go to bed. can't sleep. I wake up Sunday morning, 6 50. Again, not by choice. have my first cup of coffee. I'm amazing. I'm a golden God. I realized I can still accomplish my goals. I'm going to write the best book ever. Again, I'm a golden God and Sunday morning, but later I, I get through a few pages of that manuscript and it's still hot trash. I should, I should probably toss this out. and cancel the short fiction collection I have coming in June because that's probably trash too. I'm a fucking idiot. Sunday morning, even later, maybe I should talk this out with my AI because I'm alone and rather than talking to people, I

should just go talk to the AI. That will make me feel better. speaker-0: And as like a half joke or fully. speaker-1: No, fully, like, I went to Claude and I was like, hey man, here's all the things I'm experiencing, like, can you, is this, is this like a known psychological thing? Go find me research about it. speaker-0: No, why are you doing both of those things are bad. Both of those things are bad. I mean, that's also why I like, I'm, I'm not allowed to look at WebMD. I don't do any health things. I'd never look it up now. speaker-1: Yeah, but Yeah, it's I mean, honestly, so I'm kind of the opposite because then it's like it directs me to these articles like, yeah, okay, turns out very common feature of ADHD, right? And especially in in highly creative folks, this is like, this is a thing. It's just it's everywhere. So I'm like, okay, I, I should go for a run and that will make me feel better. And it does. And I'm a golden god. And then I think I should play Sleigh of the Spire for three hours and not talk to any of my friends about it or trying to play it with them. I should play it alone. and there by myself and I do that. And then Sunday night, I realized I didn't make any bits for the podcast and work is tomorrow and I'm back to being trash again. Sunday night, I meditate. I'm a tranquil golden God. then Monday morning, I'm like, maybe next time. And that's like, that's, that's all like no bits aside. That's exactly what happened. Like that is, that is my weekend condensed into about 10 minutes. I, I experienced this like. That's stretched. Usually I experienced that over the course of a day. So I'll have like this feeling like I'm a comet burning up on reentry. I feel fucking amazing. I'm going to create and do all of this shit. Like a lot of the times I can actually catch that wave and I can do something. But if God forbid I have to work or commute or something else when I'm having that feeling and then I get home and it's gone. then that feels like the worst thing in the world. it's this feeling of like, if only I could get rid of all the distractions in my life, I would be the best creator ever. Like I could go live in a cabin and just do all of these things. Yeah, please. speaker-0: So I have a perspective. okay. So one, everything about this resonates with me. I have a couple thoughts and I have questions too, but let me give you. I have a hypothesis and I knew going into taking a work, a break from work, ⁓ because I said the same thing, which is like, Hey, given it's only a matter of time, that's the only thing like keeping me from really, maybe like the exhaustion, mental, social, ⁓ from work. And I knew, and I knew I was going to find out that wasn't the case. Like everything else, you take your shit with you. You can go on vacation, but you're bringing all your stuff with you. can get a new job, which we talk about a lot. You're, bringing your stuff with you. You're so you. And I don't know how much you can tune that throughout

your life, but that knob, you're only clicking it left and right a couple of times in a period of 60 years, if you're lucky, yet alone, you know, doing that from a major like stopping work or getting free time. So first thing I'd say, I just empathize a lot with you because that's my experience on a day-to-day basis as well. For me, and I guess, and then I'll pause, that's something I have to say because I'll just go on forever. It's a weird... tool I learned because I can't actually stop. have to say I'm going to pause because it gives me a stopping point. The work thing. So I found that I didn't spiral as much when I was working because of money, because objectively on a busy workday, which, you know, in the last couple of years that I was working, was mostly meetings. that it doesn't feel real in any way. It's why I picked up so many hobbies that like were actually physical. Like I'm to go sand wood for four hours, maybe after eating a burrito on a Saturday. the money was enough to slow that spiral. And I knew that. And so one of the things I really wanted to play with in like the last two years was like, for me, it all came down to worth and how I evaluate worth, which like I didn't want to feel like I did things because money was created. And so I've been able to unwind that a little bit, but it doesn't stop the other thing. ⁓ And in some ways it's, it's made it harder because like, I mean, I guess I didn't underwine it that much, but like, yeah, like if someone's giving you dumb money to sit and talk to people, you didn't do anything, but it, me, it feels way less worse. so honestly, a lot of the times here, like I struggled more in that kind of way. ⁓ You know, work, especially as a manager and like large enterprise, like it's very taxing for me, but like not working has been more taxing because I kind of like lost that crutch as far as like self-worth and value throughout my day. And like it has amplified everything else, which is like, ⁓ man, there's so many things I should have been doing. Like I've had this time and like, people judging? the time that I've had because I'm not doing the things that they would do with it. And also like, fuck you, you have the time off and see if you're super productive and all the things that you think you're going to do, you're not. anyways, I'll stop, but like everything about that hit me and it's, it's been one of my primary struggles and it's, you know, as far as how I handle it has gone up and down. And the reason why initially I had to tell myself I was retired or semi-retired was to actually get rid of the idea that I like would ever be going back so I could play in that space. And now that I'm not doing that, it's actually like all come rushing back to me, which is like, ⁓ not only are you not doing all these things and not utilizing the time to the extent that you should do your piece of shit, but you're also not working. And so I lost that too, which has affected like, like how I show up. If I

show up, like I'm, I'm seeing those things and without even having work as the thing to blame it on, which just goes back to like you are who you are. But I, so my, so anyways, all that. My question for you is, especially as someone I look to and look up to in regards to how creative you are and how many things that you do, how much is enough? like, how do you know for yourself? Cause what I heard that those all sounded like good days. Like if I were to judge myself the way you were judging yourself based on some of my days, I would feel even worse. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: So how much is enough? speaker-1: The answer right now is there is nothing is enough. And this is something I've talked about a lot and it is like probably one of the biggest pieces of my work as a person. I, so I w when I was in therapy in college, grad school specifically, right. had a, I had a really concrete goal of like, I'm going to graduate and then I'm going to go do something else. But I also had, I was like, I am going to become a published author. and I'm going to get a book on a shelf. That is my only goal. And my therapist looked at me and he said, no, it isn't. ⁓ He's like, you won't. He's like, you'll do that and then there'll be something else. I was like, no, you're full of shit. And then I got published and I got a book on a shelf. And then it was, it needs to be the sequel and the sequel needs to do better. And then the sequel didn't do better and the publisher went under. And then it was, need to find a real publisher. And then I found a real publisher. And then it was, need to be in bookstores. And then I was in bookstores. And then it was, need to be in bookstores that are not just local and like people I don't talk to. And then I was in bookstores for people I didn't even fucking talk to. And now it's, now it's, need to sell who knows how many copies of whatever I write. like, look, man, I, published a book last year that I worked like three years on with a real publisher and like spent a year querying. And this year I, for some reason I have decided that I'm going to put out a short fiction collection. to benefit the fucking act blue because that felt good to me at the time. I'm going to publish another novel without going to a publisher because I felt like that felt good. I'm putting out two audio books. Like I started a second podcast and I'm reigniting a third podcast. And I think the answer is like, speaker-0: you work full time and you a dog and a new house and you have a partner and friends like yeah. speaker-1: I mean, and this is the core of why I'm always so fucking stressed. Like, because I just, the answer is it's never enough, right? And I go back to my favorite, like I used to listen to Armchair Expert. I know it got shitty, but there's a great episode with Jason Segal from back when they were first doing it. And Jason Segal said, I realized when I was depressed and hanging out literally with the Muppets that no matter what I did, it wasn't going to matter and that had to fix myself. And he's like, if you're not happy when you're with the Muppets, and something's wrong. And he talked a lot about this endless like, create cycle and the shitty part about all of it man is it's like, society rewards it. Everybody's like, you're doing so much, like holy shit, that's so impressive and it's like, okay. But then I just want more because it's popcorn, because it's not the intrinsic motivation that started it all. It's the extrinsic attaboys and all that shit. Dude, it's a fucking, it's a conundrum. No, but... It's a puzzle and I Don't know some days. I'm better at it than others in like an example So I'll kind of get to the rubric So the benefits is that sometimes I can catch that wave and actually get a bunch of shit done or do cool things And I have one of those cool things that I'll show at the end here ⁓ The highs are pretty high when I have that feeling like it literally it does feel like I'm a comet reentering Earth or just an asteroid entering Earth's atmosphere like I feel like I'm on fucking fire I'm firing on all cylinders and it's what drives me to create in a lot of ways. So the end like it's been with me as long as I can remember. It's not necessarily always been about creativity, but this idea of I am going to do a thousand different things that are, that are crazy has been with me since I was like, ⁓ the downsides are the lows are low. The crippling self doubt is not fun. It probably stems from childhood. So that's not great. And it does also sometimes lead me to not getting shit done and feeling bad about myself. So that's tough. So fun at the time, I said five out of 10, sometimes it is fun. Creates weird shit, seven out of 10. I do enjoy the weird shit when it does create it. And then is this actively causing harm? Yes, but also no, six out of 10. And for that reason, I do want to put this in, I honestly feel like it falls in C tier, but I'm open to that. Like as, as, as some evidence for why I think it belongs like not in F or D tier real quick, I will cut in. So one of my goals was I was going to make some alternative theme songs for the podcast in the style of some of the Connor from Workin' Eyes favorite artists. And I started with the Mountain Goats because that felt easy enough. So here's me doing our new theme song in the style of the Mountain Goats. We're gonna review everything. Not just the good things, but the bad things and everything in between. We're gonna review. Everything Yeah we disagree but when we do we do it as a fucking team Sometimes it's gonna get dark Like POV Malaysian Airlines or squeeze caves after dark Sometimes it's gonna be strange Haunted soup cans, peanuts, and USB consortiums on my brain! Go to review everything. So there's that. That's my evidence entered in. speaker-0: It's so funny because for me, especially when it comes to actual creative endeavors, because that has always been like my brain. I'm trying to come to. I've come to

the realization. I love thinking about creative things, but the way that my brain is structured and as I figure more about it, I'm not a creative person. Like I'm not. Especially like in the tech world where innovation and like new ideas is like overly praised. That's not me. I'm the foundations guy. I'm the guy who sees the system and pokes holes and makes it better. And like, like I love a RACI. Like why are we all doing each other's jobs? That's my superpower and it is differentiated, but that's not always, that's almost never what's valued. And so I found, even when I was a manager and in my last job, there were times where people looked at me like I was a fucking alien. In fact, they called me an alien. which wasn't very nice. Like the space kind, not like the immigration kind. But like I vote whenever someone, same thing like in our work, you know, how many times are you praised and you see people being promoted or highlighted for like fixing fire drills, like jumping into a fire drill. And for me, I always would try to create principles where that's fine. You have to do that. I get that. Like people who go above and beyond or, you know, put those things out, that's great. But that's not sustainable. And if we're not celebrating steady success and structure and how you operate. And so even, man, this was a good one. This was kind of a coup for me. I created, because no one else wanted to, the rubric for like a three to four year period, especially in COVID, of how we quantified success across different disciplines at little software that we used. And one of the pillars was how they work. Not just like, did they get the thing? done when it was given to them to the last second or someone escalated on them. steady state, because a lot of my team members got beat up for not being good at that, but they were also the people that day to day executed at scale in a way that just helped the team and modeled it correctly. I tried to do that same thing at Dumb Travel Company and they fundamentally did not understand what I was talking about. I was like, oh cool. Like if we're going to give like $5,000 to this team, why don't we give it to this other team? that didn't create the escalation that they then had to jump into and fix. And they're like, no, no, let's not do that. I'm like, cool. All right. Well, you just changed my time limit. Here's another variable as to why I'm leaving in six months, but yeah, man. speaker-1: that about working at Little Software as well. I felt like there was that culture on quite a few teams. speaker-0: I think where I started that was if I did that one thing, man, that's a fuck. Are you kidding me? If I did that in a six month period, like you creating the song, like I would have been creatively satisfied and thought of myself like that would have given me a lot of juice. ⁓ one last thing before I jumped in that I'd be curious, like to check in with you on what I found is that I try to avoid that wave now in some ways,

even though I look for it and I try to get onto it. Because over time, I think it's one of those negative tools that gets reinforced. That one, you want to do more and more in that wave. Like that way for me was way easier when I was earlier in career and just younger because I hadn't built the expectations of everything. Like it just keeps growing. And so then to... speaker-1: Yeah, responsibilities, man. They do, they keep stacking up the older you get too. So like, I feel like there's less and less room for things that are not like maintenance. speaker-0: And even, but even just like the idea that if I got three things done in that wave, I would feel fine about that. And now it's like, I have a hundred things and not only do I know logically it's not reasonable, it gets it harder and harder to even jump onto that wave when you feel it because I'm like, ⁓ shit, I need this super wave. Like I need the tsunami. And so now I'm waiting days to find it when if I had just do, if I do a hundredth of what I'd like to do without looking for, you know, that that focus or whatever, that flow state. Like it's more, it's more stuff and it's probably the more important stuff. So I fight that every day. It's one of the things I try to find value in and it's getting better as I reinforce it intellectually. Do I feel it very often? No. Am I catching myself more often? Yeah. Now am I just beating myself up and always thinking about how my brain's working? Yeah, too. So I don't have a good solution. speaker-1: Yeah, it's like, think there's a way to live with the wave that's like understanding that the highs are going to be high, the lows are going to be low, and that's okay. And that's what I mean by like, nothing matters. yesterday, so yesterday is when I recorded that song and I like, was upstairs, I was about to like, I booted up vampire crawlers. I was like, I have like two hours until we're going to start D &D, or our Dino Island campaign, and I'm prepped. And I was like, okay. I, and I, but I was like, I had, and then I remembered, was like, I had this idea when I was at the gym and I couldn't execute on it because I was busy. I'm just going to go do it. And so I shot off vampire crawlers. left my dogs upstairs with two toys and I was like, fuck you guys. I'm going downstairs for a little bit. And then I just spent 25 minutes blowing my voice out and just like making up a stupid song. And then I was like, okay, sounds like shit. I'm going to send it to Connor. And that was it. And it did feel better because then it was no, I didn't write seven. was planning on doing early yesterday. It was three yesterday. thought I was going to write three in an hour, but I did write one and that was fine. And like the other way I get around it for the other creative work is do you just have like office hours for writing? I write in the morning before work and that's, and usually that's it. And every once in a while I get a bug up my ass that says, if I just deleted everything else in my life, I could write in the evenings and all that too. But it doesn't fucking matter. And that's not what's going to make me happy. So I just need to. To live with that. But not quite there yet. But that being said, I do love the spiral to a degree. Like there's a part of me that likes it. It makes me me. It's why it's a lot of the reason why my brain is the way it is. I without the spiral, I had a therapist ask me why I wanted to play on hard mode and why I wouldn't just do like an SSRI. And I'm, I'm afraid that if I lose that spiral, I'll lose the rest of it. And maybe someday I will decide that I don't want to play on hard mode, but for now it's okay. speaker-0: Yeah, that's interesting. Cause I've, I've, I've gone, I have that experience and have gone off and on and there is a version of that, right in that, right. And it changes when things are a nine out of 10 on depression, like, yeah, fuck yeah. Like just like toss that prozac into my mouth. But I've learned to like live with the six or seven, especially as I understand what's going on and the cyclic nature of it, which in some ways I'm always good when I have more data and I. speaker-1: That's very different, yeah. speaker-0: It's very purposeful. Like I collected it. Like I did experiments. These are month long trials and changes and things. And so I'm able to maintain it. ⁓ but, and right now it's not bad enough to, cause the flatness that comes with it or the apathy. I think I'm genuinely, if happy is a thing, I don't know what happy is. I'm more, I'm more complacent, which I'll take complacent if I could do it without the side effects. I'll take, if I was just complacent, that's most of it. And it does give that to me and, it takes its toll in a way that I think you're, you're describing your fear of happening. Cause I do lose that drive and I don't know what to do without that at all. I'm more paralyzed a lot of times, but I'm just kind of okay with it, which I don't know how to exist that way either. It's interesting. speaker-1: Existence is more complicated than I was led to believe. Alright, so for me, it's C tier. How do you feel about it living dead in the middle? speaker-0: Amen. What is the actual just brain? speaker-1: No, so sorry, the item is the ADHD spiral, but the category is brain. As far as things of brain, speaker-0: It's, I mean, for me, it's including the ups, like the highs. Yeah. But the highs are so reinforced and does it feel good? Yeah. I know to me, like this is clearly F. Like the highs are powered by negativity and anxiety of not being good enough. And so like, yeah, do you hit it every once in a while? But the only reason you're getting to that is because you've filled yourself up with all like this negativity juice. speaker-1: Yeah, but it's not as bad as MH3, it's not as bad as Malaysian Airlines flight 370. Like that's an F tier. This feels like, do we have the, can we look at the rankings real quick? Okay. So looking at this and

because this is important, like this is why we have the tier list, right? So. speaker-0: I think this is worse than an H370 because we don't actually know if they're dead or what happened. speaker-1: I think there's like entitled old people is on there. LinkedIn is an F tier. To me, it's definitely better than those things. The D tier... speaker-0: I mean, LinkedIn is definitely worse than MH37. speaker-1: Yeah, but I do think like, put the Newport Mariners triple attraction pass in D tier, you fuck. You did, you overrode me for it, I remember now. think this does feel at home in D tier to me. Like, yeah, it doesn't quite feel like an F. I like how you have my turp roller off to the side as well. speaker-0: Did I? Yeah. I'm good with it indeed. So I actually listened to a 45 minute podcast on the origins and impacts of chiropractic. It was started by a healer, a magical healer that could heal through hands. And so it did come from a weird spiritual place. It is very unregulated. Yeah. So I think I was 90 % correct on it and we'll maybe I'll bring that as an item. speaker-1: Yeah, well, yeah, I'm here for it. Okay. So for now we'll put this in detail Let's move on to your item because I this shortened to item format. We've spent 43 minutes on the first one So what do you got? Bring us bring us home. Bring us back up speaker-0: All right. I have, go to the show notes, just so you can have a visual. I put like two pictures in there. So I'm talking about, well, also the, my approach to this item was one of the things I do when no one's around, which I'll have to modify a bit because I've spent the last two years pretty much by myself, vast majority of the time, and I tend not to do this. And so I would say this is kind of something I would do when not only am I alone, but I'm kind of couch bound. And so that's either I've hurt my back or I'm very sick. And that is to binge watch media that is for me, existential. And so two examples of that, probably the easiest one as far as like what people has seen is Severance, especially coming from a large enterprise kind of tech work thing. tried to watch it when I tried to watch it when I was at work and it was too fucking real. It freaked my being in a way that I couldn't handle it. And so the first time I got sick when I was off work, Severance was a perfect example. completely existential like made you think about the realities of what you're actually doing and how it kind of breaks you and how you have to be different people in like the modern world. And that's just from a very privileged white guy thing. Hey, take that. He'll be at least you want to come at me. Hey, guess what? The world's harder for other people. There's systemic systems. It's real. And so speaker-1: We're clipping that. That's for sure going on the net. speaker-0: But the, so one of the ones that I think about probably even more is what's considered in an adult animated show called Scavengers Reign. It was on HBO Max. I didn't know this and I'm super excited about it because it means there's new content ⁓ that I get to watch in this universe. Cause we'll probably never get any more ⁓ unfortunately, but it was, it kind of grew from a dialogue lists short movie on Toonaming in 2016. Which I know they do subversive shit and so it makes perfect sense scavengers scavengers rain ⁓ speaker-1: just real quick, Toonami, do you wanna, kids these days are missing out. Toonami was the shit. speaker-0: I would probably go back and look at Toonami stuff. speaker-1: There was like that was a space ghost coast to coast. think Harvey Birdman attorney at law. speaker-0: And I think like, ⁓ was the, with the French fry and the meatball and the milkshake. speaker-1: Aquatine Hunger Force? Yeah dude, there was some... speaker-0: And they would do just like crazy things at midnight, like a two hour subversive, like puppet thing that like turned into like an acid trip. It scared the shit out me. It's the reason why I didn't watch Toonami, especially at that time. I couldn't handle it. speaker-1: Yeah, Toonami was like the day when it's like you had a few channels you would go to on a Saturday night and like shit got wild when you hit like 11, 12 o'clock. That's, that's when like the guardrails were off, man. And Toonami, Toonami has some good shit. speaker-0: Do you know after nine in the UK, you can say anything you want. can say, you can say, well, they say all the time, but you can say like dumpster. can say, I can't even think of things worse than and, but you can say that after nine PM in the UK. speaker-1: I learned that because I watched SNL UK. Yeah. And they don't give a fuck. speaker-0: It's not, it's not bad. think they did a really good job, honestly. I think they captured, they captured it. Like it's, it's like watching another SNL with stuff that I don't understand, which was one of the fears people had, which it was going to be too Americanized. And no, their jokes, a lot of their jokes, I don't, they're very British. I don't understand. So, okay. Scavengers, scavengers came from Toonami. Adult animation in the sense of that it, it plays with and ideas that are things that adults have to deal with. So it's not. In the sense that there's lot of swearing or sex, although there may be those things. And I think probably why I find it existential is like it deals with things that I'll kind of talk about themes, life and death, kind of the human condition, the ear. Why don't want to use all the words that I already thought about now. So yeah, it's like 20, what is it like 2300. And at this point, traveling cargo across space is as pretty much as boring as being a truck driver, still very dangerous, but like, it's just a job. And so you have these massive space cargo haulers, not a lot of staff, almost a little bit indentured servant to big corporations own them. And yeah, they're just, it's kind of mundane, but this one, the Demeter, Demeter, it's a Greek God for fertility or something.

It is crippled and I'll maybe I'll talk about why. ⁓ Do you mind? You're kind of going to get spoilers unless you tell me otherwise, and then I'll have to. dramatically change how I'm talking about that? Is that okay? I mean, the little mistakes, fuck off. Like if you haven't seen the show and you're listening, all eight of you, you're going to know some major plot points. speaker-1: No, no, no, go for it, go for it. Hey look, I got great news. The amount of people that stick this late in the pod, it's like one or two people. And one of them is... And we can bleep her name. But... Well, she told me when we went to the concert that she hasn't listened to like the last four. Yeah, yeah. And I almost walked out, so... speaker-0: Hmm. ⁓ so yeah, so the major premises, this ship gets crippled, they have to evacuate and they land on a planet that has never been charted because there's a shit ton of them. You're, know, that's the majority of planets. Most of them are boring. This one is not. And the planet is pretty much the main character of the show or as main of a character as some of the other characters. And it's because it is incredibly confusing and foreign. to the things that humans understand. so specifically the flora and fauna of the planet are terrifying and beautiful and the rules of them are not understood. I'll just briefly talk about the visuals. One of the reasons I really like this because I don't always gravitate towards animation. I don't gravitate towards a lot of things, but in- It's a very, I don't know if it's like, I thought I read it's like some European style or whatever art house did it. It's super, super stark. And so when I've talked to people or I've read things, it kind of throws a lot of people off or it's a reason they don't like it. For me, the reduction of visual clutter makes the things that are weird and unique, especially in the way that the plants and animals work. so much more interesting because it's able to highlight them. And I think part of that is a brain thing for me. And I think there's something there that's just very, very interesting at first glance. It may look a little bit boring, but especially as you get into it, I think it's definitely unique, even though it can look very plain. ⁓ And so. Let's talk about, I'll talk about a couple of themes of it of why I think I like it and then some of the characters and situations that I think highlight those themes. And these are all for me. Other, I think I borrowed a little bit from others and I could have the wrong interpretation because a lot of things about this show are left to your own interpretation or they can be confusing. And it's a good reason to watch it a couple of times. And I'm actually, after doing this, I'm going to watch it again because I saw some stuff where I was like, ⁓ I didn't actually understand what was going on. And so one of the major themes is The people that get stranded there for the most part, can't shape it in like, the humans

can't shape it into their image. Almost all of them try to. They're more technically advanced. There's no like super intelligent in the way that humans are as far as they can tell creatures on this island or on this planet. And so they kind of try to use their understanding in the way that. We've talked about the indigenous folks in the Pacific Northwest, specifically Seattle. They called the people that came here the changers because they flattened the land. They've fundamentally changed the shape of it. And so the people stranded here, that's kind of their default, which is to try to bend the will of this planet to them. And it doesn't fucking work. And it feels so good to see. what I often think are the least curious and ugliest parts of humanity just fail over and over again in a way that often is painful, deadly, terrifying. And the ones that can't get beaten into submission and can't kind of, and this is where some of the things that connecting from earlier, like if they can't let go of their ego, they fucking die. And a lot of them do. And for me, that's very gratifying to see like, this is just another system and the idea that you ever truly understand it, which I think most humans who float through this fucking world do, they think they get it and they don't. And I think this represents for me a thing that I inherently feel, but oftentimes isn't paid off, at least in my life and this world here, just because the amount of hubris and ugliness that override it. And so, I don't know, that really resonates with me, even though it might sound negative. speaker-1: I think you'd like The Expanse. There's one book in particular in The Expanse that does kind of exactly this as well, and it's like, hey, we're not meant to be here. speaker-0: Ooh, so that's it. So that if it's any part of the first or second book, especially around the black goo thing, that's another thing that made me feel like almost optimistically terrified, but inspired because it was so confusing and to see us think that we had ownership of something and then for it to not turn out that way. More and more as I get older, that actually creates awe. The more things I don't understand, the more reasons I have hope and I find, it creates curiosity in me in a way that I think most humans aren't. And it's a reason why I don't resonate with them and don't really connect with a lot of them, which I'll get to it too. So another one is kind of how irredeemable humans can be. There's a specific character, Caiman. He's essentially the middle manager of the ship and somehow ends up being top in command. Spoiler, unalert. since I told you this dipshit is the reason why the ship crashes and it's because he wanted to make up a little bit more time. So the bosses liked him and technically he was in control, even though he's a, he was like a middle manager. ⁓ he outweighed the captain because he actually came from the company that had the heart cargo and he made the wrong call and killed most people and stranded everyone else. And another thing to him, and this is probably the A good portion of the entire series is one of the creatures, the very first creature he runs into is this species that has some sort of mind control or telepathy. And I kind of liken this, if you go back to like things that we know in biology where there's, there's, I don't know exactly what it is, virus or parasites that get into the brains of bugs or birds and make them do what they want to do. That's how this creature kind of lives ⁓ in a way that seems pretty harmonious with. the world because it as ugly and as from our perspective, dangerous and life threatening this world is like it all works together. Like death is only a negative when it, if you're a human, um, who out where your worth outweighs other things. Otherwise it's just a cycle. Like, yeah, you're a creature that lives in this world and then you go back into the world and it all feeds into each other. And so from a human perspective, it seems scary and these creatures are killing you and each other. But in the context of this world, it's, and they have things that even go further, but it's like, it's all connected. And so like, yeah, of course creatures die and then there's a new one. know, but so this species that I'm talking about, so the creature specifically gets the name hollow. But the example would be he kind of uses his brain and there's these other lower, I don't even know if they're lower, but maybe more simple creatures that get fruits. And so the way that they survive is to temporarily control these animals to bring some of the fruits to themselves. All of sudden a human shows up and they don't know any better to try to do the same thing to the human. And the innate ugliness and selfishness of the human. One of the first things the human does when kinda under the power of the thing, but still using it, like came in using his tools and his understanding of himself. He kills another creature, which they don't do. And then he kills one of that same species. And Hollow never, from my understanding, like they never did that. They didn't have that idea. And so it didn't... even necessarily know that it was wrong, but it turns out it starts eating its own because Cayman keeps killing creatures for it and it gets bigger and stronger. And so now there's this ugly symbiosis of what for me is essentially the human condition that is now being amplified in this world from a completely benign standing point as how it started. But this creature hollow essentially becomes the bad guy of the entire story, but only because of the selfishness and ugliness that is being like. that is being amplified by its nature. And so I won't speak any more to that because I think it's really fucking cool. Caiman's irredeemable. Irredeemable. And I think at the end, the only reason he actually lives, and he's given a second chance, not because he deserves it, but because humans are inherently social. And they are

able, the couple people that are left are able to look past this thing and kind of treat him like a child or maybe even like one of the creatures that they found and give him a second chance, which I think is cool. because it reminds me of how important, so like humans are social. And even though my brain maybe isn't built for the amount of social connectivity that most humans need, it is scary to be on your own. And so you're more willing to adopt the thoughts of others and the rhetoric of others and to be less curious because it keeps you safe. That's why we are humans. That's why we've lived. And so that's hard for me to understand that that is the world. That is why. A lot of things that happen happen in it, but here it shows the good and bads of that. And maybe it's neither good or bad. It's just, that's what makes humans human. And I kind of like that. It doesn't give me hope, but it doesn't make me feel as sad about it. It kind of turns it in more into a base thing as opposed to the stuff that happens because of it. speaker-1: Yeah, I like that messaging. speaker-0: A lot of this is just my interpretation maybe, but I think it's a lot of it is probably close. Now I guess the last one I'll just talk about is the life and death are different here. And again, like going back to the humans that try to fight this, like this world, it really just comes from a standpoint of selfishness, which is fair. Like when you, when you consider yourself the most important thing or at a higher level of everything else, but because this world is new to us, that's not how it works. And so an example. is that there's this tree and as you go by it, and so in this case, there's these creatures that are kind of like buffalo and they're just herds of them. And as they walk through the plains, if they go by this tree, the tree pricks them. And a couple of things happen when they get pricked, they get infected with something. no. So when the tree pricks them, it actually takes their DNA and makes a clone of them that joins the herd. And then that clone explodes, killing them all and like releasing this. chemical onto them that breaks them down. But then all those creatures turn into a new tree that go on to clone more things. And there's this mycelium like thing that happens as well, where every time like someone dies in that, in that ecosystem, they essentially don't die. They, they propagate and they show up as another thing. ⁓ and so, I don't know, things that I think are scary to think about, especially because, you know, we have. consciousness and as a part of that, don't want to lose that consciousness. so death is super scary. But like, if you can extract yourself from that and look at the bigger picture, which is hard for humans to do, it's certainly hard for me to do, it creates a curiosity and awe and maybe a little bit of that. Everything's bigger than us. Like we're so small and inconsequential, like the idea of how much energy and worry that we put into

ourselves. And we don't even know what happens, right? So there's other cool things I want to talk about that I notes on, but Here's my rubric and then any questions or anything. ⁓ I didn't have a top level category. ⁓ Man, bad Connor. So, content. speaker-1: We've done content before, but it's specifically about when and why you consume the content. So it could also be. It's not a, is it a mental shortcut? When did we have squeeze? speaker-0: like subversion like It's definitely not a shortcut. speaker-1: What was the, what did we have for dissociating? speaker-0: I think this is actually the opposite of disassociation. I think this is net new. I think this is... Man, do have an idea? speaker-1: Let me think, it's maybe like soothing or like, it's not really soothing, it's like connecting you to the world in a different way. Or connecting you to your reality in a different way through a third party. ⁓ speaker-0: I say it's half of his brain. speaker-1: Yeah, well, yeah, they're both in brain then. I like that. speaker-0: And then my categories for me are challenges you. think I think oh, that's a different category. I think there's a bunch of things that are challenging because you think and I think kind of like the characters while you're watching you the show you're most doing the same thing which is you're trying to figure this out. from a structure that fundamentally doesn't work. And you're gonna learn that over and over again as you're watching the show and trying to predict what's happening and like think you know what's happening. And then it changes on you because this is new. Like we don't fucking get it. We haven't just, you know, we haven't shaped everything. We don't understand everything. For me, that challenging part is super fun and pulls me back to it. So nine out of 10. ⁓ kind of going back, like creating awe, that's something that I really look for because the longer I live, the harder it is to feel curious and to feel hopeful. Even if that hope is like death, is to care enough, to, to see the world in a different way or try to see things in a different way, especially when so much of it feels shallow and ugly. ⁓ and so this is one where it helps me pivot my view on things, ⁓ from maybe an from negativity, which eliminates curiosity to pulling myself a little bit out of that negativity kind of bubble that I'm living in, which I don't think is wrong. But I think it's, it's a small view of things and I'm better when I think bigger. And this is a way to maybe create all around things that at a smaller level feel really bad. And then still think about it. I think about this one probably once a week, there's something that hits me and that's cool. So, nine out of 10 on that. So for me, this is S tier come at me. speaker-1: S tier. That's strong take. Let me ask you, like before and after you do this thing, like give me a breakdown of what the Delta is between those two mental states. So like, when I think about like brain things, like you go into this for a reason, to a degree, and you come out of it with a gain. What is the Delta there? What's that like? We're going to quantify it. speaker-0: Say more, Queen. Yes, no, so I think like the three nine out of tens that then turn into an S, like that's where it's coming from, which is there are very few things that can lift me out of how depressing the world objectively is. And things like this do that. And for me, that is pretty massive. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, look, I'm never going to fight you on a mental trick that is ST. Especially because it's like. speaker-0: That's right motherfucker. It's not a shortcut either. It's a long cut. speaker-1: Is Xanax up there too? Xanax is up there. So like this is, we'd be putting it in the same pantheon as Xanax. So that's my question to you is, is this as good or better than Xanax? speaker-0: I would say net benefit, it's actually better because it's not free. comes with work and it comes with, yeah. speaker-1: I think anything that gets you, like, don't have depression in the same way that you have depression. But I have, like, I've witnessed it secondhand a lot. speaker-0: And you have frustration that that can be connected and very similar. speaker-1: Yeah. And like, but I just, I think I know to a degree, like how difficult it can be to get out of that spot. So anything that does that for you with any degree of reliability, I'm happy to put that in S tier. It seems like a, it seems like it belongs up there. Just so we're clear, the S tier right now contains the Bloomin' Onion, my lucky coin, my first cup of coffee in the morning, big trouble in little China because it's structural to the podcast, scream at the beach because of a... We'll bleep that. Yeah. Yep. And the chill pill Xanax and then Tony Horton. P90X. speaker-0: I, you know what, when you put them all together, may sound silly. I don't think it's silly. think the- speaker-1: I don't think it sounds silly at all. I this is actually making a lot of sense. I think that we've, we're building a structural map for how our two brains function. And it's very interesting to me what has, what has risen to the top of the cream of the crop, as they say, and what makes up the bottom. speaker-0: Outside of? No, I mean, even not even outside. So each one of those can be boiled down to essentially one of three things that I think are all fit into stuff that are very, very good in the way that we understand them. Watch the show, man. can't believe I didn't bug you to watch the show. speaker-1: Yep, I agree. Yeah, so look it takes me a lot to watch an animated show these days and this is something I realized that speaker-0: This is a slow burn too, which might be a struggle. speaker-1: I want to get better about it because there's so much good animated content that I would like to consume again and I used to I used to love it and then at a certain point like even Rick and Morty anymore I haven't consumed I've heard the new seasons very

good I have a tattoo of it on my wrist and I haven't like there's a portal gun on there ⁓ it's it's a mix of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Rick and Morty it was my little twist so that I wasn't just doing the logo for the book speaker-0: I never realized that. Yeah, hey, that's cool. speaker-1: For some reason, watching animated content's been really hard for me, much to the chagrin of my friends Kira and Lauren, who love this shit and try and get me to... There's another one that they tried to get me to watch a lot recently as well, but it's sort of like same vein, but like existential and mushroomy, I think. speaker-0: This is not frenetic at all. that, I've been, that word keeps popping into my head if I'm using it correctly. This is the opposite of that. It is a slow burn. It's, it's, it's more meditative. And I think the art style feeds into it. Cause I'm, I'm with you too. There's only a couple of anime things I've ever got into. Delicious in Dungeon. This, I think that's it, recently. So. speaker-1: Morty's frenetic for sure. I will force myself to give it three episodes. speaker-0: It's probably a good burrito show, honestly, like a more than a beer burrito. speaker-1: So now that's the interesting thing burrito got to be outside. I can't like I realized this weekend I can't do inside because when you eat burrito and then three hours later you realize you can taste the oxygen in the air You got to go sit with tree and you got to look up at tree and sky and get sun for me ⁓ speaker-0: No, that makes sense. With this show, so much of it is nature-based that, but I do appreciate that. Cause I've never, don't generally. Yeah. Yeah. If it doesn't create anxiety. Yeah. speaker-1: Benjamin show. Well, look, I'll have some time this weekend because it's gonna be on Saturday night. So after we go see Yoram's movie, maybe I'll plug this on and see how I feel about it. speaker-0: It's still an hour and we'll edit it down to 45. It's we're cutting through it, man. speaker-1: Yeah, no, I think we're doing great. So let's end with affirmations as is tradition. I will go first. My affirmation is I appreciate you showing up to do this shit with me. Because even though I had the realization of like, yeah, like nothing matters, like this does matter. And this being the just the making the dumb shit together and the fact that sometimes it can be really stupid and about peanuts. And then other times it can be really existential and I think useful to talk through these things. And if we need a podcast to do that, that's fine. I'm happy to do that, but I like having these discussions with you and it makes me feel better. That's my, that's my affirmation. speaker-0: I appreciate the hell of that. I have a different one that I'm gonna do, but I'll add on to that. Kind of going back to one of the things I liked about this show that I really struggle with is knowing that I'm a social creature, but it takes a lot from me, even with my favorite people. In situations I know that I will be good for, but especially when I feel the weight of the world and whatever's going on with me, it's really hard to do that. And so, yeah, I feel the same way. And I appreciate you for being... one of those reasons to do it and then reciprocating and sharing, which I think then feeds into that social aspect. And the other one's a little bit easier. And that is kind of like, I've been in like a multi-month, but realistically like a three to four week, like major AD, AD spiral around working on my profile and thinking about going back to work of which I almost never asked for help from anyone on for anything. And I got to the point where I'm like, need someone to help me get over this thing. Cause all I'm doing is thinking about it and not actually doing it. And you helped me actually get to the point between, you know, last weekend and then today, which I'm sending it to. Like I'm hitting that's one of my goals, which is like, I'm essentially applying to two jobs today. Cause I feel comfortable doing it in a way that I hadn't, which is for me pretty fucking huge. So thanks a lot. Hey, fuck you, man. I'm smart.