บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Why Supply Chain Agility Is Now a Competitive Advantage

00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:24.670 We've gone through so many transformations. 00:02:24.670 --> 00:02:30.790 It's hard to think that the same company that I joined back 20 years ago is the same company that we're looking at today. 00:02:30.971 --> 00:02:39.191 So much has changed Tom, not only in the recognition of supply chain, but the impact that it has on our communities that has on our economies has our environment. 00:02:39.471 --> 00:02:41.510 Today, supply chain is ubiquitous. 00:02:41.510 --> 00:02:45.651 It impacts everybody from kitchen tables to boardroom tables. 00:02:46.901 --> 00:02:50.441 And when you were a little kid in school, did you always want to get into supply chain? 00:02:51.075 --> 00:02:57.466 I don't think most people had an idea, especially when I grew up, that supply chain was even a thing that you could go into. 00:02:57.725 --> 00:02:57.936 No. 00:02:57.936 --> 00:03:00.126 Mine was more on finance and consulting. 00:03:00.156 --> 00:03:03.936 That's my background having been a CPA, but a recovering CPA. 00:03:04.165 --> 00:03:05.605 They tend to tell history. 00:03:05.605 --> 00:03:31.423 I wanted to focus more on making history, and I think that's what really separates supply chain and a lot of the things that the supply chain professionals do is responding to the challenges and not only, informing their own organisation on how to do it more efficiently, but to ensure that we're doing it sustainably and in a way that ensures that we have a future to look forward to that doesn't destroy the planet, and that we have sustainable resources for the future. 00:03:32.370 --> 00:03:37.560 And you've led ASCM through major expansion and industry shifts. 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:42.629 What what's changed most in supply chain leadership expectations over the last, let's say five years? 00:03:44.472 --> 00:03:54.222 It it really interesting'cause I think it's the recognition of the supply chain professional as a strategic leader as opposed to a transactional focus for most organisations. 00:03:54.472 --> 00:03:56.901 We've seen the rise of the supply chain professional. 00:03:56.901 --> 00:04:02.092 Now, CSCO's, chief supply chain officers are almost embedded in almost every organisation. 00:04:02.312 --> 00:04:03.991 10 years ago, that was not the case. 00:04:03.991 --> 00:04:10.572 More often than not they were that quiet activity behind the scenes, making sure that everything was running right. 00:04:10.901 --> 00:04:14.931 Today they're sitting at the boardroom table, they're sitting in front of, investors. 00:04:14.931 --> 00:04:25.221 They're sitting in front of politicians, and we're seeing that the elevation of supply chain has really, provided a recognition for the contribution that these individuals make. 00:04:25.612 --> 00:04:35.232 Further, we're seeing a transformation of the focus of supply chain from the transactional speed and cost to a much more sustainable, resilient, agile supply chain. 00:04:35.572 --> 00:04:41.701 The skills necessary today have transformed supply chain and the individuals coming into supply chain today. 00:04:42.012 --> 00:04:49.932 The AI automation, cybersecurity sustainability, these are all now hallmarks of sustainable supply chains and resilient supply chains. 00:04:50.172 --> 00:04:53.307 So the talent side coming in today, they understand supply chain. 00:04:53.591 --> 00:04:59.982 They may not understand the complexity, but they understand the need and the criticality of supply chain for organisations. 00:05:00.252 --> 00:05:02.771 We've attempted to mirror that as an organisation. 00:05:02.771 --> 00:05:07.992 Our focus was on the individual competency, capability, recognition, reward. 00:05:08.411 --> 00:05:14.151 It's transformed into, not only the individual, but the impact that the individual has on their company. 00:05:14.541 --> 00:05:20.682 So we thought our holy grail was Tom, that if we can, get everybody certified and competent and capable, that we've done our job. 00:05:20.951 --> 00:05:28.211 And then we realised, wait a second, if they don't contribute to organisational performance and success and sustainability, what have we done? 00:05:28.541 --> 00:05:37.956 So our merger with Supply Chain Council and bringing on a SCORE framework enabled us to not only represent the individual, but the organisation and the performance. 00:05:38.052 --> 00:05:39.192 The triple bottom line. 00:05:39.521 --> 00:05:41.922 And we thought that was the end of our journey, Tom. 00:05:41.951 --> 00:05:43.512 We can train everybody. 00:05:43.721 --> 00:05:49.151 and we can ensure that they're contributing to organisational performance, ensuring that they have career opportunities. 00:05:49.362 --> 00:05:52.841 We thought that was the end of our journey, and then we realised we had one more step. 00:05:53.411 --> 00:05:55.872 And that's the impact that supply chain has on our economy. 00:05:55.901 --> 00:06:00.942 It has on our ecology, has on our consumers, has on almost every aspect of our lives. 00:06:01.091 --> 00:06:12.521 And we've embraced that responsibility as an organisation that the focus of supply chain is not only on the individuals and the organisations, but on the consumers and the impact that they have on supply chain as well. 00:06:13.184 --> 00:06:14.264 Mm Indeed. 00:06:14.324 --> 00:06:19.303 And what would you say, what problem are supply chain leaders still underestimating today? 00:06:20.211 --> 00:06:21.951 I'm not sure if they're underestimating it. 00:06:21.951 --> 00:06:25.932 I think it's the complexity that the disruption that we're facing today. 00:06:25.932 --> 00:06:27.911 It's at an unprecedented level. 00:06:28.192 --> 00:06:30.141 We've dealt with shock star system before, Tom. 00:06:30.141 --> 00:06:38.711 You and I have been around long enough to, to remember the ash cloud and, various disruptions and we've responded from those and we recovered from those. 00:06:39.012 --> 00:06:51.072 What

we're seeing now is just the compounding of one disruption on top of another disruption, and it really did start with the pandemic, and it's gone now in terms of, border war wars. 00:06:51.132 --> 00:06:54.391 It's gone in terms of, scarcity of critical minerals. 00:06:54.391 --> 00:06:59.591 It's now, we're seeing reshoring and nearshoring as critical aspects of an organisation. 00:06:59.841 --> 00:07:01.971 We're seeing cross-functional war rooms right now. 00:07:01.971 --> 00:07:12.812 CSCO's, CFEO's, CSCO's, chief Supply Chain sustainability officers, chief compliance officers are now working and they need to work together, finance, legal, ops. 00:07:12.812 --> 00:07:18.062 They need to align their activities because the disruptions that we're facing right now are not single. 00:07:18.062 --> 00:07:19.262 They're not just logistics. 00:07:19.262 --> 00:07:20.791 It's not just a cost element. 00:07:21.031 --> 00:07:38.785 We're seeing it impact on, from port congestions to energy reliability, and carbon footprints, all of it now is embedded within supply chain and the criticality of these or the opportunity to improve an organisation through collaboration is never greater than it has been today. 00:07:39.144 --> 00:07:51.009 But as you, you and I have seen the disruptions today, they are causing significant challenges for organisations, not only in their planning horizons, but in terms of their optionality for their organisation. 00:07:52.935 --> 00:07:53.355 Yeah. 00:07:53.355 --> 00:07:58.125 And, and volatility as we're seeing now is not temporary. 00:07:58.125 --> 00:07:59.774 It's almost structural. 00:08:00.134 --> 00:08:04.115 And that changes how we think about sourcing, for example. 00:08:04.115 --> 00:08:14.197 So if volatility is policy driven now, how do export controls and industrial policy change sourcing decisions at a strategic level? 00:08:14.536 --> 00:08:14.985 Yeah. 00:08:15.076 --> 00:08:24.459 Really interesting because, sourcing right now isn't just about finding that right partner and committing, long-term contracts We're seeing a very different environment right now. 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:30.375 It's about designing optionality into the system from day one multi-tier supplier visibility. 00:08:30.375 --> 00:08:32.475 And this is one of the challenges that we had. 00:08:32.745 --> 00:08:38.086 And it exposed it during the pandemic, we did not have visibility into our extended supply chain Tom. 00:08:38.852 --> 00:08:46.082 More often than not, we knew who our tier one suppliers were, but as the further the supply chain moved down the road, the less visibility that we had. 00:08:46.322 --> 00:08:54.003 Now, you need to ensure there's no supply chain professional that can walk into the C-Suite and say, I don't know who or what is in my supply chain. 00:08:54.212 --> 00:08:55.322 So that's the good news. 00:08:55.503 --> 00:09:05.993 The bad news now, or the challenging news now, is that you now know who and what is in your supply chain, and now you need to make, significant decisions about should they be in your supply chain. 00:09:06.472 --> 00:09:09.202 Further, we're seeing scenario-based planning right now. 00:09:09.202 --> 00:09:19.192 This is not just a one-off activity, it is almost a daily activity in terms of how the environment has changed from policy to environmental, to financial signals. 00:09:19.383 --> 00:09:28.202 Organisations are now, challenged to not only develop scenarios, but scenarios for your scenarios, especially given the changes that we're seeing today. 00:09:28.663 --> 00:09:32.923 Further flexible contracts, cross-functional activities. 00:09:33.052 --> 00:09:41.423 We're looking for organisations that see agility as a strategic opportunity as opposed to a challenge or a disruption for their organisations. 00:09:41.783 --> 00:09:53.513 And so today, agile supply chains, it's ability to reconfigure their suppliers as well as their flows without disrupting and more often in advance of the impact that it has. 00:09:53.722 --> 00:10:00.472 Whereas resiliency, you've already achieved or you've already realised and been impacted by whatever challenge there is. 00:10:00.472 --> 00:10:02.182 And now how quickly can you respond? 00:10:02.543 --> 00:10:10.373 The agility part is identifying those issues in advance and then mitigating those prior to the impact that it has on the organisation. 00:10:10.643 --> 00:10:14.842 And this is where we're seeing organisations really lean into technology. 00:10:15.322 --> 00:10:19.003 AI, automation they're providing the necessary tools. 00:10:19.393 --> 00:10:25.038 But one of the challenges that we're seeing, Tom, is the investment in technology is not being managed with the investment in talent. 00:10:25.722 --> 00:10:35.873 And so we've got these significantly powerful technology systems without individuals having the critical thinking or problem solving skills to understand the data coming in or coming out. 00:10:35.903 --> 00:10:43.432 We need to ensure that we have capable, competent individuals that can leverage the technology investment that organisations are making. 00:10:44.414 --> 00:10:45.254 Sure, sure. 00:10:46.455 --> 00:10:54.717 Just on the suppliers is, is there a threshold where diversification of suppliers costs more than it protects? 00:10:55.419 --> 00:11:00.000 Yeah, that, that's a really good question because historically we've designed for speed and cost. 00:11:00.259 --> 00:11:02.090 Those were hallmarks of supply chains. 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:04.820 How quickly can you get it and how cheaply can you get it? 00:11:05.210 --> 00:11:09.740 Now you need to factor in the agility part, multi, tier suppliers. 00:11:09.769 --> 00:11:22.226 You need to do your, pre-qualified suppliers in case of, and so the tension right now between finance and supply chain is where we're seeing a lot of the impact of the current disruptions on agility. 00:11:22.647 --> 00:11:28.996 The CFO is going

to push for short term, cash flow and lower inventory costs. 00:11:29.147 --> 00:11:38.807 Whereas our supply chain guys are looking for much, and women are looking for much more capabilities in terms of their inventories and flexibility and longer term capabilities to respond. 00:11:39.106 --> 00:11:43.126 And so we're seeing some strategic tension within organisations right now. 00:11:43.307 --> 00:11:51.047 Specifically because of the relationship between what the CFO's objectives are and the chief supply chain officer's objectives are right now. 00:11:51.317 --> 00:12:10.336 And again, we just did a study interestingly with the Institute of Management Accountants and some of the findings indicate that while we're aligned in the short term, we're much more unaligned or misaligned in the long term in terms of strategies right now, which isn't surprising, giving the focus of the CFO versus the CSCO in an organisation. 00:12:11.793 --> 00:12:14.702 And in that scenario, what about the Chief Sustainability Officer? 00:12:14.732 --> 00:12:21.753 'cause I mean, if you are going for things like regionalisation, are there scenarios where that increases emissions for example? 00:12:21.753 --> 00:12:25.383 Should leaders think about resilience versus decarbonisation trade-offs? 00:12:26.504 --> 00:12:36.715 Interesting point because unfortunately sustainability has taken a little bit of a backseat over the past few months or, year in terms of the impact that it has on organisations. 00:12:37.105 --> 00:12:41.215 The focus for most of the organisations right now is on compliance. 00:12:41.465 --> 00:12:54.538 We've had opportunities to develop what would be, those strategic metrics or those key performance indicators on sustainability and our, our ability to, provide, what the consumers and the patients need without disrupting our planet. 00:12:55.044 --> 00:12:58.461 Unfortunately we've sort of missed the mark on this. 00:12:58.461 --> 00:12:58.791 Tom. 00:12:59.030 --> 00:13:04.760 We had an opportunity as either industries or as associations to start to develop some of those metrics. 00:13:05.130 --> 00:13:06.900 Right now most of it is compliance. 00:13:06.900 --> 00:13:08.701 It is policy or regulatory. 00:13:08.971 --> 00:13:14.061 And more often than not, what we've seen in the past is compliance tends to be minimum checklists. 00:13:14.390 --> 00:13:17.020 And that's what we're seeing a little bit right now. 00:13:17.230 --> 00:13:21.100 I don't think organisations are pulling back on their sustainability objectives. 00:13:21.100 --> 00:13:25.030 It's just not as forward or as front as we're seeing it in the past. 00:13:26.173 --> 00:13:27.613 It's dropped down the priority list. 00:13:27.880 --> 00:13:28.211 Yeah. 00:13:30.673 --> 00:13:30.883 Great. 00:13:33.133 --> 00:13:41.274 And if we think about, sourcing what changes inside a company when sourcing becomes dynamic or agile? 00:13:42.385 --> 00:13:46.456 First I think We're seeing the digital platforms that organisations are investing in. 00:13:46.456 --> 00:13:49.255 So a much greater reliance on, the technology. 00:13:49.615 --> 00:14:02.395 But the increased reliance on AI in the decision making is really transforming organisations in there in terms of the demand forecasting, optimising inventory, and doing the things necessary for overall operational efficiency for organisations. 00:14:02.785 --> 00:14:07.346 What we're challenged with though is that this is an iterative process. 00:14:07.346 --> 00:14:12.775 It's not a static environment today, and so it is data driven, it's cross-functional. 00:14:13.385 --> 00:14:20.765 In some respects, that Chief Sustainability Officer used to be like the Chief Supply Chain Officer 10 to 15 years ago, Tom, when you couldn't find them. 00:14:21.046 --> 00:14:30.785 Now we're seeing a little bit more investment in Chief Sustainability Officers in organisations to work with your Chief Supply Chain Officer and your Chief Compliance Officer. 00:14:31.235 --> 00:14:36.576 But I think we're seeing much more focus on the CFO and the CSCO right now. 00:14:36.826 --> 00:14:45.519 Sustainability as you and I just, discussed has taken a little bit of a backseat in terms of, where the disruptions are, the focus of the disruptions are right now. 00:14:45.828 --> 00:14:48.438 Most of it is on financial signals. 00:14:48.469 --> 00:14:51.349 Supplier risk sovereign, supply chains. 00:14:51.538 --> 00:14:59.458 We're seeing disruption in terms of what is in our national interest versus what is in our national security for other organisations or other countries. 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:04.558 And that is having an impact not only on the decision criteria, but on planning. 00:15:04.589 --> 00:15:10.928 And I think this is where we're seeing the greatest impact for organisations right now, is their planning horizons have shrunk. 00:15:11.349 --> 00:15:14.229 And sustainability is not a short-term planning horizon. 00:15:14.318 --> 00:15:16.089 It's a long-term planning horizon. 00:15:16.551 --> 00:15:33.918 It's extremely difficult in today's environment to plan where, if your plans were, 12 to 18 months before, they shrunk cons considerably because of tariffs, because of the geopolitical , environment that we're facing because of the financial signals instability for certain countries. 00:15:34.705 --> 00:15:47.894 But when you take a look at in terms of the capability of organisations or countries, to identify what is in our national interest in our national security, we start to see it break down a little bit of the global nature of supply chain. 00:15:48.254 --> 00:15:52.154 It now becomes much more regionalised, it becomes much more friend shoring. 00:15:52.375 --> 00:15:56.304 We're looking for ways to mitigate the disruption, in the future. 00:15:56.634 --> 00:16:05.154 And organisations right now are starting to focus in on the short term, not knowing what their long-term impact or, the

environment is gonna look like. 00:16:05.465 --> 00:16:06.904 Let's take an example today. 00:16:07.235 --> 00:16:11.565 If you want to develop a manufacturing facility that costs two to $3 billion. 00:16:12.075 --> 00:16:16.784 It's a hard ask for a CEO or a CFO to go into the boardroom and say, you know what? 00:16:16.995 --> 00:16:18.794 It's gonna be two to $3 billion. 00:16:18.794 --> 00:16:20.745 It's gonna take two to three years to get online. 00:16:21.075 --> 00:16:23.475 I don't know what my sourcing strategy is going to be. 00:16:23.475 --> 00:16:29.414 I don't know what my pricing strategy is going to be, or my sustainability footprint, but let's invest it on the if come. 00:16:30.014 --> 00:16:47.715 That's a hard argument to make right now for a lot of organisations without clear indications of what tariff policy is going to be, what environmental policy is going to be, some consistency would go a long way in identifying those critical decision points for organisations so that they can invest appropriately. 00:16:49.482 --> 00:17:03.850 And previously we've, talked about this, Abe, that the prioritisation of sustainability in organisations helps bring down the cost of recruitment and retention for organisations and helps bring down the cost of customer acquisition and retention for organisations. 00:17:04.690 --> 00:17:11.779 The fact that it's now being, I don't wanna say deprioritised, but as I said earlier, kind of dropping down the, the list of priorities. 00:17:12.109 --> 00:17:17.720 Is that having any noticeable impact on the likes of recruitment and retention or customer acquisition? 00:17:18.612 --> 00:17:19.182 It's interesting. 00:17:19.231 --> 00:17:26.241 We just did a study with Gartner on sustainability and the imperative of sustainability within an organisation. 00:17:26.632 --> 00:17:32.692 And we found that when it is embedded in the priorities of the organisation, it's not an and. 00:17:33.051 --> 00:17:37.402 It's part of every strategic priority that you have in the organisation. 00:17:37.731 --> 00:17:47.971 And more importantly, when it's controlled or driven by the supply chain function in an organisation, we tend to see much more, impact not only on employee retention. 00:17:48.241 --> 00:17:51.721 But on impact on meeting your objectives for the organisation. 00:17:51.872 --> 00:17:52.981 All right, so what does that tell us? 00:17:52.981 --> 00:17:55.541 First supply chain professionals are doers. 00:17:55.592 --> 00:17:57.721 When you give 'em a task, they get it done. 00:17:57.971 --> 00:18:01.662 Secondly, it's embedded in the priorities of the organisation. 00:18:01.662 --> 00:18:05.291 So it's coming from the strategic imperative of an organisation. 00:18:05.471 --> 00:18:07.031 It's not coming from the bottom up. 00:18:07.092 --> 00:18:08.892 It is coming from the board. 00:18:08.892 --> 00:18:16.632 It is coming from the leadership of the organisation that we have to ensure that sustainability is embedded in our metrics and in our operations. 00:18:17.112 --> 00:18:29.501 Then it is drilled down and then it's carried through through the supply chain, and this is where we found a much more stickiness for organisations when it is embedded and it is mandated through the supply chain function. 00:18:29.981 --> 00:18:41.652 Again, we tend to see much more alignment when it is aligned with their strategic priorities as opposed to a this is something that you need to do in addition to your primary responsibilities. 00:18:41.981 --> 00:18:51.281 And so first, embedding sustainability imperatives within an individual's priorities, I think goes a long way in ensuring that you do have follow through. 00:18:51.432 --> 00:18:53.112 And then secondly, reporting on it. 00:18:53.112 --> 00:18:58.781 And I think this is where we've seen a little bit of a pullback on the reporting on sustainability initiatives. 00:18:59.051 --> 00:19:05.031 Again, I don't think companies are pulling back, it's just not being as reported as publicly as we had seen in the past. 00:19:05.589 --> 00:19:06.009 Sure. 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:06.579 Yep, yep. 00:19:07.539 --> 00:19:16.539 coming back, Abe, to the topic of agility, where are you seeing, or are you seeing agile sourcing, materially reducing downtime? 00:19:17.564 --> 00:19:21.213 I think you're seeing there's a number of, the ways that organisations are doing it. 00:19:21.213 --> 00:19:29.183 I mean, we've seen, with Amazon and Proctor and Gamble, in terms of using AI to predict inventory needs and optimise their supply chains. 00:19:29.784 --> 00:19:38.844 But you need to start to integrate AI and the visibility that we talked about before with traceability and real time insights for organisations for decision making. 00:19:38.844 --> 00:19:45.423 That's what really enables organisations to leverage the technology and the investment that they're making right now. 00:19:45.673 --> 00:19:53.201 But we've seen a focus on agile sourcing, on reconfiguring their suppliers on, flexible contracts especially on the tariffs. 00:19:53.280 --> 00:20:00.871 We're seeing that tariff escalators within contracts right now that if tariffs change, we have the responsibility and the opportunity to renegotiate. 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:03.461 Before it was, fixed contract costs. 00:20:03.461 --> 00:20:04.601 And that's what led us. 00:20:04.601 --> 00:20:06.490 We know what our pricing was going to be. 00:20:06.760 --> 00:20:09.570 Now we don't know, or it's changing. 00:20:09.570 --> 00:20:13.800 And the uncertainty today is causing a lot of that challenge for organisations. 00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:16.510 Further, agility is a repeatable model. 00:20:16.510 --> 00:20:17.921 It's not a one-off response. 00:20:17.921 --> 00:20:20.171 This is something that you do almost every day. 00:20:20.361 --> 00:20:21.471 It is data driven. 00:20:21.471 --> 00:20:28.320 It is cross-functional as you and I talked about in terms of getting your

sustainability officer, your CFO, your Chief Compliance Officer. 00:20:28.530 --> 00:20:34.971 And I think that's one of the areas that we probably need to pay a little bit more attention to is the compliance and cybersecurity. 00:20:34.971 --> 00:20:35.330 Tom. 00:20:35.580 --> 00:20:40.320 We talked before about the visibility that we did not have in terms of our extended supply chains. 00:20:40.590 --> 00:20:45.330 Well, organisations have fixed that problem by connecting everybody in our supply chain. 00:20:45.570 --> 00:20:47.790 So we're now, now digitally connected. 00:20:48.449 --> 00:20:56.558 Your small and medium size suppliers generally don't have the same security protocols or the same resources that the large, tier one suppliers do. 00:20:56.949 --> 00:21:02.739 And More often than not, when we're seeing cybersecurity and ransomware attacks, it is coming through your extended supply chain. 00:21:03.189 --> 00:21:12.578 And so while we've embedded technology throughout supply chain, we've now increased our risk profile because of the technology footprint that we have right now. 00:21:12.788 --> 00:21:19.298 You can't do it without it, but you need to ensure that you have the appropriate protocols throughout your extended supply chain. 00:21:19.628 --> 00:21:26.403 More often than not, it is a function of working within the priorities or the, the leaders of your organisation. 00:21:26.594 --> 00:21:27.493 It's strategic. 00:21:27.493 --> 00:21:28.874 It is not opportunistic. 00:21:28.874 --> 00:21:31.953 Agility is something that differentiates a company. 00:21:32.183 --> 00:21:49.574 Interesting point, the pandemic, when it first hit us back in 20 we did a research study with The Economist on agility and resiliency, and there was a fundamental question, do you want to go back to where you were prior to the pandemic or do you believe that you are never going back? 00:21:49.933 --> 00:21:51.703 And It was even 50 50 split. 00:21:51.703 --> 00:21:54.884 Tom, 50% said, get me back to where I was. 00:21:55.034 --> 00:21:56.923 50% said we're never going back. 00:21:56.923 --> 00:22:00.913 We are going to fundamentally change how we operate as an organisation. 00:22:01.334 --> 00:22:09.943 And that, I think is a clear indication of where leadership steps in in an organisation and ensuring that you do have the ability to respond to the challenges. 00:22:10.153 --> 00:22:20.493 I think those organisations that said, get me back to where I was, are probably wishing that they had more focus on get me, to the new operating model and where we can respond appropriately. 00:22:20.993 --> 00:22:21.413 Yeah. 00:22:21.594 --> 00:22:22.163 Yeah, no doubt. 00:22:22.314 --> 00:22:22.673 No doubt. 00:22:22.673 --> 00:22:27.179 And what skills would you say matter most in a world of like policy driven volatility? 00:22:28.009 --> 00:22:37.005 I, I think there's a number of challenges that we've seen right now with the talent side, and it is, it's interesting, and it's almost generational, Tom. 00:22:37.345 --> 00:22:41.194 But years in my generation, we did not grow up in a technology environment. 00:22:41.244 --> 00:22:50.121 It was thrust upon us, some of us embraced it, some of us continue to push back and use the Excel spreadsheets that are still in in our core resources. 00:22:50.431 --> 00:22:56.550 I think we're looking at a very different environment where the individuals coming into the workforce right now are digital natives. 00:22:56.611 --> 00:23:05.191 They are more than comfortable with the technology that is provided for them, and more often than not, they will trust the technology blindly. 00:23:05.340 --> 00:23:17.971 And I think that's a challenge that we have right now, in terms of the capability of individuals to critically think and evaluate or problem solve the information prior to accepting the data coming in. 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:26.641 So first, I think we have a mentoring opportunity for individuals coming into the workforce on real world experience, on problem solving, on critical thinking. 00:23:27.151 --> 00:23:36.931 I also think we have a reverse mentoring opportunity for those individuals coming in for you and I to trust the technology to rely on more on that integrated technology. 00:23:37.260 --> 00:23:56.944 And so I think as we evaluate the talent side, there's an opportunity for us grey hairs to learn a little bit more on how to leverage technology and some of the digital natives that are coming in to understand the experience and the heuristics and the problem solving that individuals have and they can blend those two together, that's a winning formula. 00:23:57.661 --> 00:24:03.631 Sure, and and should the likes of AI simulation literacy be baseline for sourcing leaders? 00:24:04.792 --> 00:24:10.673 I would say that if you are not using AI right now, you're probably significantly behind the curve. 00:24:10.761 --> 00:24:14.721 Most organisations are increasing their reliance on AI decision. 00:24:15.142 --> 00:24:38.557 Just from the data side itself, the volume of data that is available to us right now and optimising that information so that you can have relevant, timely, accurate information, I think is key for a lot of organisations The investment in technology right now is dwarfing almost any other investment in the supply chain right now, but it's the integration of the digital platforms. 00:24:38.557 --> 00:24:39.847 It's not just the investment. 00:24:40.087 --> 00:24:51.428 So you're looking at AI, you're taking a look at automation, cybersecurity, robotics, sustainability matched with talent that can understand those, technology platforms and putting them together. 00:24:51.637 --> 00:25:11.352 And I think that's a winning formula for a lot of organisations is that, agility and that, using AI to not only move away from that we're in a crisis mode into operational activity, irrespective of the impact on either environmental or existential

or any disruption. 00:25:11.352 --> 00:25:27.426 I think we're seeing that technology with a talent pool that can critically evaluate the issues I think it's much more responsive to and much more resilient to the challenges that all of us are facing or our companies are facing almost on a daily basis today. 00:25:28.570 --> 00:25:33.105 And what do you think resilient supply chains of 2030 will look like? 00:25:34.288 --> 00:25:35.189 That's a really. 00:25:35.578 --> 00:25:39.058 Interesting question to, to take a look four to five years in advance. 00:25:39.269 --> 00:25:43.138 If you had asked me five years ago, would we be in this environment today? 00:25:43.328 --> 00:25:47.568 I I'm not sure that I'd have a pretty good indicator of what that is. 00:25:47.848 --> 00:26:00.769 I, I think as much as we focused on the past generation on speed and cost I think the focus right now is on beyond, just the efficiency aspect of supply chains. 00:26:01.005 --> 00:26:05.244 I'm seeing a much more focus on long-term sustainability. 00:26:05.244 --> 00:26:25.384 And I'm hopeful that when we get to 2030, that our focus is on the long term, that we have much more certainty about our pricing and about our sourcing and about our partners in the marketplace Right now, global supply chains are under a tremendous amount of stress, and we're seeing a lot of focus on regionalisation or nearshoring, or friend shoring. 00:26:25.788 --> 00:26:46.392 I'm hopeful that we start to focus a little bit more on the long term leadership imperatives, risk tolerance embedding your supplier strategy inside your sustainability strategy, technology investments that provide realtime visibility without increasing your cybersecurity or your, risk profile for organisations. 00:26:46.801 --> 00:26:57.271 As we've seen right now, we're seeing that, agility provides you greater visibility, much much earlier in the process so that you can make the appropriate decisions. 00:26:57.511 --> 00:27:00.955 Decisions are required much faster today than they ever were. 00:27:01.211 --> 00:27:05.644 We don't have the luxury of time to say, all right, let's see how this plays out. 00:27:05.835 --> 00:27:09.444 We're seeing much more deliberate changes in the short term. 00:27:09.815 --> 00:27:15.035 Today in a world of export controls, climate volatility and industrial policy shifts. 00:27:15.275 --> 00:27:17.855 Agility now is the competitive advantage. 00:27:18.005 --> 00:27:22.265 It's no longer a, a nice to have or a contingency plan. 00:27:22.505 --> 00:27:26.644 It is part and parcel of every organisation's long-term sustainability. 00:27:28.550 --> 00:27:32.288 And do you think resilience will be a board level KPI? 00:27:33.622 --> 00:27:43.224 It's interesting because resilience tends to take a look at what is our risk profile for the organisation in terms of how do we respond to these challenges. 00:27:43.625 --> 00:27:52.654 My hope is that agility and resilience are now married within the organisation's priorities and their strategic initiatives and their metrics right now. 00:27:52.835 --> 00:27:54.065 It's not one or the other. 00:27:54.065 --> 00:27:58.115 You need both because you can't predict every disruption that you have. 00:27:58.384 --> 00:28:05.301 I'm not sure how many AI models would've had the Red Sea attacks in disrupting that logistics through fair. 00:28:05.632 --> 00:28:10.348 You can't predict everything that, could possibly happen for organisations. 00:28:10.558 --> 00:28:21.578 So that blend of resiliency, that ability to respond to the shocks and the agility to have the flexibility to take advantage of those shocks in the system, I think are now board level issues. 00:28:22.493 --> 00:28:30.054 I wanna do a quick lightning round now of three or four questions with for yourself, one sentence answers. 00:28:30.054 --> 00:28:30.713 Are you up for that? 00:28:32.003 --> 00:28:32.634 Okay. 00:28:33.114 --> 00:28:40.763 So if you had to choose, improve your demand forecasts or invest in running more, what if simulations for disruption? 00:29:11.416 --> 00:29:11.896 Demand. 00:29:12.976 --> 00:29:17.556 Definitely if I can get a handle on demand, I know how to sequence my supply appropriately. 00:29:17.806 --> 00:29:23.836 Even with the variability in demand, if I can get a clear demand signal, it's much easier for me to align my supply side 00:29:24.852 --> 00:29:29.951 Okay, move production closer to home or keep a globally diversified supplier base? 00:29:31.434 --> 00:29:35.314 Near shoring, friend shoring, regionalisation. 00:29:35.354 --> 00:29:43.454 I think we're seeing almost every aspect of it, and I think it's going to depend on the product or the industry that you're in. 00:29:43.734 --> 00:30:03.921 There are certain industries that we have determined that are in our national interest and our national security TSMC, electric vehicle batteries, semiconductors, we believe those are in our national interest and I think we're seeing a, compliance and or regulatory policy consistent with those Chips Act, we're seeing investment. 00:30:03.921 --> 00:30:15.384 And so, I think there's a, a short term, focus on this, but our focus is much more on the long term impact on regionalisation and on the global supply chain. 00:30:15.653 --> 00:30:18.173 It is under a tremendous amount of stress right now. 00:30:19.592 --> 00:30:20.732 Short answer, it depends. 00:30:22.482 --> 00:30:22.982 Okay. 00:30:23.502 --> 00:30:28.277 And build extra inventory or invest in better real time visibility systems? 00:30:28.908 --> 00:30:30.401 Real time visibility systems. 00:30:30.401 --> 00:30:33.461 The CFO in me will still push back on the inventory. 00:30:34.545 --> 00:30:40.935 Okay, and let AI automatically switch suppliers during a disruption or require human approval every time? 00:30:42.245 --> 00:30:52.245 I would say that, that you should have some element of human touch in the decision criteria as well as in

the, at every aspect of it. 00:30:52.295 --> 00:30:58.455 We can train these systems, but ultimately it is who's training it and to what parameters are you putting in there? 00:30:58.455 --> 00:31:03.865 I'd like to see the human touch, the individual still be a critical part of decision criteria. 00:31:04.581 --> 00:31:04.791 Right. 00:31:04.971 --> 00:31:12.021 I had a guest on recently, and his answer to that, well, it wasn't quite that question, but his answer was, if the AI messes up, who do you blame? 00:31:12.507 --> 00:31:13.677 Yeah, Exactly. 00:31:15.291 --> 00:31:19.611 Optimise for lowest total cost, or fastest recovery after a shock? 00:31:19.942 --> 00:31:29.013 If you optimise for total cost and then identify your, the alternatives that you have, I think that would probably be a winning formula. 00:31:29.733 --> 00:31:32.533 But changing your suppliers, changing your strategy. 00:31:32.692 --> 00:31:34.940 It's going to take a lot to respond to those. 00:31:35.250 --> 00:31:37.950 Any change in either one of those scenarios. 00:31:38.518 --> 00:31:44.788 All right, and deep partnerships with a few key suppliers, or flexibility with many interchangeable ones? 00:31:45.088 --> 00:32:00.946 Flexibility especially in today's environment today what you plan for is going to change and oftentimes it's better not to pick up the news to see what has changed that day, so it doesn't force you to respond, to knee-jerk as opposed to long-term strategy. 00:32:01.766 --> 00:32:02.756 Fair enough, fair enough. 00:32:03.396 --> 00:32:04.916 And a left field question for you, Abe. 00:32:06.086 --> 00:32:18.361 you could have any person or character, alive or dead, or fictional as a champion for agile supply chains, who would it be and why? 00:32:20.015 --> 00:32:21.125 One individual. 00:32:21.220 --> 00:32:26.825 I, I, I'm not sure I pick one individual, but I, I, I think I pick a supply chain professional. 00:32:27.185 --> 00:32:34.894 That individual, the competency and the capability to understand the complexity within an organisation. 00:32:35.195 --> 00:32:42.305 Only two functions in the company have to know everything that goes on in there Tom, The finance, the CFO and your supply chain professional. 00:32:42.585 --> 00:32:45.045 They have to know everything that goes on in an organisation. 00:32:45.285 --> 00:32:47.485 I pick the supply chain professional to get things done. 00:32:48.493 --> 00:32:49.293 Okay, brilliant. 00:32:49.953 --> 00:32:52.033 We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Abe. 00:32:52.033 --> 00:32:59.998 Is there any question I didn't ask that you wish I did or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of? 00:33:00.671 --> 00:33:12.791 I think the, one of the areas that, that we focused on as an organisation and credit to our board of directors is a focus on the consumer and we did this through a documentary that we just published. 00:33:12.821 --> 00:33:17.651 It's available on Amazon Prime, a six part documentary on supply chain. 00:33:18.041 --> 00:33:27.401 What it does is it traces in each of the episodes, four products all the way from raw materials to use and to end of life in terms of what happens to it. 00:33:27.761 --> 00:33:30.341 But it's not focused on the supply chain professional. 00:33:30.341 --> 00:33:41.501 It's focused on the consumer to help them understand the impact that they have on our supply chains, and more importantly, the decisions that each one of us has every day, in terms of what we buy. 00:33:42.018 --> 00:33:48.557 We ask some fundamental questions in the documentary, and we want individuals to ask these same fundamental questions. 00:33:48.557 --> 00:33:50.658 First, where did this product come from? 00:33:51.378 --> 00:33:52.398 How was it made? 00:33:52.908 --> 00:33:54.588 How long did it take to get here? 00:33:54.588 --> 00:33:55.817 And how did it get here? 00:33:56.328 --> 00:33:58.008 What happens to it after I'm done? 00:33:58.578 --> 00:34:03.317 And I think these are critical questions that almost every individual would like to have answers for. 00:34:03.648 --> 00:34:08.567 And the documentary in the six parts provides that insight in terms of the supply chain. 00:34:08.867 --> 00:34:12.228 I think most individuals understand supply chain in terms of scarcity. 00:34:12.228 --> 00:34:14.057 Either it's on the shelf or it's not on. 00:34:14.987 --> 00:34:27.077 What we've attempted to do was provide them some insight in terms of how complex supply chains work, but more importantly, the impact that we have every day on our purchasing, the signals that sends. 00:34:27.467 --> 00:34:38.867 So if we're buying products that aren't sustainable, that are low cost and that have environmental impact, companies are gonna make products that have low cost, environmental impact because they're gonna meet demand. 00:34:39.378 --> 00:34:48.538 If we demand as consumers sustainable, ethical, resource products, raw materials that aren't, scarce, companies will respond appropriately. 00:34:48.538 --> 00:34:52.077 They respond to the demand signals, and I think this is what we've done. 00:34:52.108 --> 00:35:00.117 Hopefully with the documentary will start to show some of the information, or some of the impact that consumers have on our supply chains. 00:35:00.508 --> 00:35:05.847 We don't design supply chain Tom in a backroom and force it on the industry or on the consumers. 00:35:06.088 --> 00:35:10.077 Consumers determine what they buy, where they buy it, how much they spend for it. 00:35:10.318 --> 00:35:12.628 Companies respond to those demand signals. 00:35:12.867 --> 00:35:21.238 What we wanted to do through the documentary was reflect to them the impact that those decisions may have on supply chains and have on our lives. 00:35:21.447 --> 00:35:28.557 It is really interesting when you start to break down some of the activities and provide that information to people. 00:35:28.807 --> 00:35:32.894 More and more we're seeing a request for transparent supply chain and transparency. 00:35:33.345 --> 00:35:41.055 This provides some insight in terms of what organisations and what supply chains respond to and how complex they are. 00:35:41.385 --> 00:35:47.447 This was a journey for us in terms of supply chain, of making it real for everybody. 00:35:48.352 --> 00:35:49.762 And what's the documentary called Abe? 00:35:50.309 --> 00:35:53.139 It is called The Chain and it's available on Amazon Prime. 00:35:53.510 --> 00:36:03.690 There are six episodes that focus on transportation, EV batteries, they focus on food scarcity, on apparel, on healthcare and on sports. 00:36:03.690 --> 00:36:10.980 And so these specific programmes, each one of them traces four products from origin all the way to recycle, reuse, and waste. 00:36:11.317 --> 00:36:18.967 Our focus is literally on informing individuals on the impact that supply chain has on almost every aspect of our lives. 00:36:19.651 --> 00:36:20.251 Fantastic. 00:36:20.251 --> 00:36:20.461 Great. 00:36:20.461 --> 00:36:24.840 So we'll finally be able to explain to our loved ones what it is we do every day in supply chain. 00:36:26.490 --> 00:36:26.891 Great. 00:36:27.471 --> 00:36:28.501 Abe, that's been really interesting. 00:36:28.561 --> 00:36:34.655 If people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things that we discussed on the podcast today, where would you have me direct them? 00:36:35.401 --> 00:36:42.331 I can see at ascm.org or just search The Chain on Amazon Prime and you'll see the documentary there. 00:36:42.550 --> 00:36:46.271 But again the best way is to reach us is through ascm.org. 00:36:46.461 --> 00:36:50.481 Any of my team members will be happy to support or respond to any questions that you may have. 00:36:51.383 --> 00:36:53.543 Fantastic Abe, that's been really interesting. 00:36:53.663 --> 00:36:55.403 Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today. 00:36:55.613 --> 00:36:56.242 All the best, Tom. 00:36:56.242 --> 00:36:56.753 Thanks again.