บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ 162: Digger: Behind The Scenes with Richard Foster-King (Steve)

he'd shoot supposedly all night. Albeit that I'm sure he he has a team of people supporting him to do that in a very different way th th than maybe I would. But yeah, and I I I remember s saying to him one day said, you you okay? How how are you doing? And he's like, I'm great. I'm fantastic because we make you know, he's so hyped by making films and so excited by it. And I think and I thought to myself, God, if I was you I'd be I'd I'd need asleep right now. I'd need to be asleep. So he was working around the ground Yeah. speaker-1: Caffeine drip, yeah. speaker-0: And doing those really the summarine stuff, doing like what I can imagine must have been really minnow. Physically, mentally exhausting, draining stuff then coming into a rehearsal room. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean well, yeah, complete complete polar opposite kind of movies as well. Like speaker-0: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: he's still underwater, kind of underwater in this one. But yeah. We'll jump into that. but yeah, I was I was gonna start how we how we met as well, because I I think it's quite quite interesting. with with Ministry of Fun doing promo that a lot of actors in London do. and then I think we we joined on the Barclay Guards dance thing, I think. So I I I couldn't believe you guys learnt this seven minute dance sequence straight off like because they said, Drew, we we need a fill in. And they're like, they sent me like a video link and and they were like, This is what all the lads know. And I was What what are they talking about? Like I remember it being like three songs before or something. And then they sent me a seven minute like thing. They're like, You you've got to learn this. And I was like, Are you fucking kidding me. And then I think you guys were helping me trying to learn it at the hotel. Because what was it speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: was it Guernsey or something? And every time I got involved, you'd be like speaker-0: Yeah. It was I mean 'cause we went all over with that. I remember 'cause I I definitely went to either Guernsey or Jersey there and back in a day, you know, that's but we went all over the UK with that and it was a good gig, you know, th those those gigs that they were they were great gigs and it was Yeah. and it was you know, with actors you have to be, you know, adaptable and and find ways of Of of making money when when when there's not the work coming in really. That's that that's part of the deal, isn't it? Well speaker-1: Well here's the th here's the thing now, Rich. Whenever I think of marmalade, I don't think of Paddington Bear. I think of you. Because when when we were in that little hotel, 'cause I think we were staying over, I remember we predecided they they brought up like a cup of tea and marmalade, or for some reason there was a kettle in our room or whatever it was. And we were just having marmalade on toast with some tea. And then they're like, guys, you you need to go into rehearsals or whatever for the dance thing at the tent. And we're like, speaker-0: I do I think that was the Isle of Man, I think, now I come to think of it like But we have been all over, so it could have been anywhere really. Yes, yeah, speaker-1: I can't yeah. speaker-0: yeah, yeah. Some yeah. speaker-1: But I just I just remember like so so here was the crazy link as well, 'cause then when when I saw the trailer for Digger, I was like, I swear to God that's Richard. And then I took a screen grab and and then I remember I remember sending it to you when, dude, you have either got like a doppelganger or like there's some seriously scary fake, deep fake AI stuff going on and someone's absolutely stolen your your whole book. But mate, my face lit up, man, when I saw you, I was like, this is so so awesome, dude. Well we well because cause obviously I I knew I knew you were an actor and I was a producer on a feature film called Polar, which is obviously again a complete polar opposite to to Digger, 'cause obviously Digger has a a massive budget, I imagine, whereas we were on about a hundred pounds for the entire thing for polar. but yeah, I j I just remember sending you the the scene and saying we'd love you to love you to play this this character and again, the thing with tea. So you were playing a drug dealer but it was we still had the whole link to a cup of tea and stuff. speaker-0: Yeah. And I think it was really lovely. That was I mean that that moment in it was th that little moment of calm that that that that you your your you know, your character has when he when he's he's going in and he's kind of ha you know, actually we know, you know, look at it from the outside perhaps is not it's probably not the wise of idea to to go to a drug dealer and it's probably not doing him any good. But there but th but there is that element of like I don't think my character was a villain, he wasn't he wasn't sort of, you know, trying to like he he was just he was serving his community, I guess, was was that what it was. And and it was that that that pleasantry of of of, you know, come in and have a cup of tea is something that maybe people don't associate with drug deals and stuff like that. And so it was r I don't know. It was really it was a really nice it was such a a clever and nice moment and and this this idea of connection between two people, whether it's right or wrong or what you think about it from the outside. It was what the characters needed in the moment and no speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Well well what I loved about the character and what you brought to it as well was a few people that have seen the film say you're interestingly your character is almost the voice of reason. Your your character is actually the kind of when the penny drops and he gets that kind of like now it all kind of makes makes sense. 'cause he he drops a lot of kind of pearls of wisdom. He's more like a kind of like a drug dealing wizard in in a strange way. speaker-0: I think you actually I think that was the

direction I had on the on the direction. Now now it's a one speaker-1: Stealing Wizard. But yeah, I I I remember how mad that day was though because we borrowed a location from I think it was a couple of people that that Dominic knew and they were kind enough to let us actually like film in their in their actual house. speaker-0: Complete both event house. Yeah, yeah, that yeah. speaker-1: Dude, do you remember that dog though that was like they had that kind of like and that has actually made the actual cut now because speaker-0: The dog might the cut. Yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: Don't re-edited it. So your character's running down the stairs with that cool kind of hat. I think you came up with that hat idea when, yeah, I just found this hat. Let's let's let's make that work. speaker-0: Let's put it on, why not? speaker-1: Yeah. And then running down the stairs and then you had to grab the dog because it just it just kind of ran out when I rang the door. but that was that was talk about like obviously, you know, improvising and kind of working on your feet and just going with the moment. but yeah, man. speaker-2: Project the for for the listeners, the film that Drew and Rich are talking about is the film Polar, made in twenty nineteen and is available for you guys on Prime and Apple. So go watch it. speaker-1: Check it out guys. Yeah. It was literally made for a hundred pounds. speaker-0: Straight through look look look at that look at where that is and made for a hundred pounds and it just proves that you know, whilst the experience in Dika was the other end of the scale when it comes to budget, actually it's about making art and about and about playing and, you know, experimenting and and and art happens in different in in different ways. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Just a quick message to thank you all for listening to our show, whether it's through Spotify, Apple, or YouTube. If you are enjoying, why not follow? Click to subscribe and leave a five-star review. Also, a reminder to follow us on Instagram and TikTok for fun clips from the show. We love and appreciate your support and thanks for sharing us with friends. This helps us to grow, improve, and continue creating. Now, back to the conversation. speaker-2: And I think I think isn't that one of the greatest thing about Digger as well, that it is it is exper i it's like a huge budget art film. It's not a standard film. like me and Drew were chatting for ages about Digger. We were properly excited about it before we even contacted you or even thought about having you on or anything. We're we were like super excited and just saying that this film is so so experimental, so so much put into it. But it's it makes you think a lot and it moves it moves around so much that you don't know what you're watching and then there's another reveal, then there's another reveal, and it changes speaker-0: Changes speaker-2: your perception of the film. And we thought this film is gonna stand the test of time. And you know, talking about marmalade earlier, you know, talk talk about what's the what's the other one? What's the sticky stuff with Marmite? speaker-0: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like love it or hate it, yeah, yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, but I love that type of film. I think those sort of films are the films that do stand the test of time, you know, and in twenty years' time we'll be talking about Digger. We won't be talking about Avengers fifty three, you know. speaker-0: Yeah, and I think that that's you know, and that that's actually what I kind of really liked when I was thinking about sort of polar and digger like side by side and obviously completely different ends of the scale with the budget, but actually wha what can happen, I think, if you're working with something with such a big budget is studios are so heavily involved and there's so much there's so much about product and now franchise films are such a big part of what what makes big money. and then And there's so many rules that have to that that that that that then that that have to be abided by. But on this there were no there was no rules on Digger. We didn't know you know, we we w and and actually I've sort of come from a you know, I guess as most actors have to a degree, but like I've I've I've done a lot more theatre than than film. And actually it felt a lot more like making theatre in that we we had rehearsals for a start. We had like full on non camera rehearsals, like really marking it out and actually the you know, thinking about what the story that that that that Alejandro wanted to tell and and then and just and and and actually experimenting and trying it different ways and even when we shoot, I mean again, this is this is where the budget comes in and the and the ability to kind of you know to you know, spend money and and and it be okay because there was the studio behind it supporting it. But you know, we've Because it was constantly evolving and because it wasn't just fitting into a franchise's model, the story could could evolve the the story could change and actually after we've even after we'd shot we'd shot whole scenes and then we went back to them and shot them all again and and suddenly so what you what the what the final product is wasn't what we'd started out. You know, the script changed the the the you know, the all the the the emphasis on that that scene changed and you know the speaker-2: Like you say, that's where the budget is on the on the time and the recording and but if if you've got someone like Tom Cruise who's spent hours in prosthetics and getting a fat suit on and changes of appearance, if he's happy to do it again and again and again and again, then you're in good company. You know, everyone else you know, doesn't have to go through all that. And if he's happy, everyone else get get on board, you know. speaker-0: Yeah, and I guess there is there is that thing of of hierarchy, isn't there, in in in film where where where if he's happy but

he you know, he would sort of say, I mean the the the the the line was always Alejandro would say, you know, I'm sorry guys, we're gonna have to do this a hundred times until we get it right and then he would Tom's responsible way to be, We'll do it a thousand times You know, that was that you know, because he was so excited about making it and and actually, you know that that set that did set a standard and it and it kind of s and it set a an atmosphere and a an an environment on set of of of we're a part of something special and we're really lucky to be here and we're making art rather than I've got to we've got to you know we've got to shoot again which you know you can you know you can fall into that trap when it becomes a job of of of just here we you know we've got to do another, you know shoot but and actually the excitement in making it. speaker-1: It I heard something that Tom Cruise was just saying, we're we're playing, we're finding our way through this. There's no such thing as a perfect take, and I and I loved that when I heard that as a kind of interview with with him and that's kind of what he was saying to some of the actors on set, that it's like we're just finding our way through this together. Like fight like it is a playground and we're just having fun and we're just seeing where the story takes us. Like you're saying, hopefully you can add your own things to it. With the character of Steve, like you got to come up with some ideas and they're in the film as well. Do you know what I mean? So you're kind of crafting something that we as an audience get to experience and everyone has their own little little you know identity to it that they've they've created, their own little mark. what was how did how did that how did the part of Steve come about, man? Can you explain the process? Like, did your agent call you and like What was that like? Or was there a script and you're like, Holy shit, that's Alejandro? Like what? speaker-0: Yeah. Well it w it i it was very it was very under lock and key the whole time. So I didn't know what I was auditioning for or what I knew it was like like, you know, it was I I knew it was a I knew it was a film when I first went in and then I kind of found out that's a director. okay, so this is gonna be pretty special and and we weren't sent sides before We and it and it was actually was in person castings, there was no self tapes, it was all, you know, rock up and and and in person. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Wow. And I think part of that No, speaker-2: Sorry. speaker-0: well I think that that was that that that was all in in in town, like at studios in town at first, I think yeah, in in Soho and then yeah, sort of in in in town and I cause I ca I went in a few times and actually it felt like a little bit like And I think and it's interesting because I think Aleandra has a real love and and fascination about theatre, which is is interesting when you think about the sort of you know, the the the film.

But speaker-1: Well speaker-0: he and Birdman as well. There's that the and I think there's some real similarities there and he he he's interested in the storytelling of theatre and actually I I went I probably went in about five or five times in the end I think. Like and I didn't meet him, it was all to tape and it was all with the casting directors that we were working with with. But every time we would go in and they would sort of you'd sort of just be shown the script and then you would you would read it blind, not really understanding the context of it. I thought 'cause I w I did read the the Steve the Steve and Brad scene the the the the Riz was in as well and and we kind of we just we ended up reading all the lines in. Just to kind of give a bit more, but we we because it was all talking about all these kind of these things that happened, I thought, is it is it an FBI type, a government type? It felt like because the language felt like that, so I couldn't I couldn't really kind of work out what it was and we weren't weren't really being told. I think he was just looking for for the characters that he wanted because I then went in a few times an audition for lots of different roles. So I read for like the the I read for the parcel, I read for like the IT guy, read for a secretary of state. So and it was it was like looking back I I kinda couldn't understand at the time, but looking back I think it was almost like he'd in his head he'd cast his company of players but was looking at where he was going to put them in a in a real like like a rep theatre company or something. It was that kind of really weird thing. He knew the looks that he wanted, you know. speaker-1: That's what it felt like. I mean that that's mad that you literally said that. Like it's like I said it's like a proper ensemble. Like when you get to see all of the different characters and and people involved. it's mad because I I know the the Reverend as well, Stephen White. Yeah, speaker-0: Steve, yeah, he's incredible. speaker-1: lovely, like wonderful actor that went to my drama school, Drama Centre London. and yeah, I I just this sounds weird, but I was like stalking his career. Like I was watching him in all of the theater shows that he was doing. but yeah, that I I couldn't believe that I like, Man, I know these guys at the table, man. Like speaker-0: I don't know if you know Tom Tom Bell as well is in it. I don't know if you know the two ministers there, yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: From ministry, yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that. I was no way, is that Tom? This is yeah, that's that's my weird ass claim to fame. That I know wonderful actors that are just lovely human beings that have worked with Riz Ahmed or Tom Cruise and that that's that's my claim to fame. And that we shared a scene as well. So there you go. I shared a scene with someone that shared a scene with with amazing actors like that. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: but when When you found out who

was involved, like I'd love to be a fly on the room, like fly on the wall in that scenario. Like, what happened when they said, Right, Rich, you got it, man. this is what's happening, this is who it's involving, like what I mean, what the hell? speaker-0: I know if they beat him. They didn't eat it was I remember I I was offered it and I was having a bit of like a a mid I was having a bit of it was that weird thing of like, we're offering it to you and you know, you need to be available from here to here and I was like, like I couldn't quite and I actually spoke to a friend and said, I've been offered that and they they knew through someone they they didn't sort of announce that, you know, this is Tom Cruise, this is you know It was through someone that knew someone that was like, Do you that that's the Tom Cruise film? That and I was like, you know, that it was that kind of it was that way. And it was everything I found out by osmosis and actually the story as well, you know, actually the whole the whole concept and all those kind of twists and turns we all kind of found out as we went along and by osmosis rather than it being something that we you know, we were briefed beforehand and then slowly kind of, you know I was like, and John Goodman's in it. okay. And Rizal Med's it okay, you know, and it was speaker-2: The lists aren't showing. speaker-1: Such an amazing cast. Like speaker-2: Tease to even us, the audience, because like we heard about Digger for almost a year ago and no one had a clue what the hell it was about. Just a man dragging a spade and a silhouette doing a weird position. You're like it says Tom Cruise, like, No, that's not Tom Cruise. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-2: To like full on acting, you know, where it was very exciting. speaker-0: And do you think that was probably really important to him as well, that he was, you know he's so known for a product, you know, that that action product and and that has sat in a couple of franchise big big franchises and I think, you know, that was this exploring and experimenting and doing something completely new was was really important. speaker-1: I mean he seriously delivers in this film, man. Like he he there's a reason there's a serious Oscar buzz to it. I was thinking that ten minute like monologue alone could win him the the Oscar. Do you know what I mean? Like that section in the I mean, that's what I was gonna say. Did you get to watch sorry, god I was gonna say, did you get to watch scenes when you weren't like like say like it's like an open set as they say, and when you've done your scenes 'Cause I I think Tom Cruise has sometimes said, people want to stay around, blah blah blah, 'cause he always loves to see people learning and, you know, always kinda like developing speaker-0: It was it it was fairly fairly clothed set in that sense. So I hadn't seen any of that EU stuff I hadn't seen until, you know, you saw you know, when I saw it at the premiere actually was when

we w when I watched it and I was like, This seems and I'd heard a little bit, you know, I'd heard and you know, where you you hear about it is always in the in the makeup trailer. That's where you hit you that's where you get all your information. You're like, what are you filming tomorrow? the okay. So then you're piece of And I kind of knew 'cause obviously I'm I'm in scenes with Riz, so I he I knew that he was filming that scene and that that's what he was doing in. Because really by that point as well in the film, in the story, my character had kind of my role was kind of was wrapping up, but then because of some of the twists and turns in the way that the f the film works, then I I kind of reappear and have a a few other little moments in the Yeah. Sort of towards the end. But Yeah. speaker-2: 'Ca 'cause that scene, that big monologue scene, that that there was so much to look at in the audience, like did you spot the mannequins? And then you speaker-0: The mannequins, yeah. I actually didn't see it the first time the heads. Yeah, when the and all of that is there, you know, none of it's there by mistake, of course, and all of it's there. And I think I think that part of it, you know, the way that I read it is i it's just providing a kind of because it's also very stylised, isn't it, as well. It's very everyone's pr pretty much completely grey like that that and I think at the by that point the the first kind of like reveal of of what this is has happened and so you kind of recognise actually this is a this isn't really the EU. This is a design. This is this is a you know, a theatrical version of the EU. And suddenly you can be it becomes more it can it can become more bold and more experimental after the after that first reveal 'cause you kind of you can actually ease into, I'm watching. I'm also watching a piece of theatre at at this point, so like But speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: that's even at the beginning. Even at the beginning of the office scene, sorry. speaker-1: No, please, please, please. speaker-0: W when I watched the office scene back and Emma Darcy, how the their character is coming in and out of doors and it's really far called. Like there's actually when you watch it you're like how have they come how have they it doesn't make sense, but actually it doesn't need to make sense. But I imagine that, you know, there are audience members that are kind of jarred by that near the beginning and then suddenly r recognising what speaker-2: Because it was a bizarre watch at all times, wasn't it? There was so much going on. speaker-1: I gonna say, because Rosama goes, It was really nice to meet you, and then the door just goes in front of his face. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: And it's like it's so clever, because it is like one of those French farces on stage. speaker-0: What yeah. speaker-1: When because that that's what I think is really clever, and I think that's maybe the bit that's dividing audiences. Cause when the when the rug is pulled, and by far this is the best twist of 2026 in any movie, that's the bit that I think if people are willing to go with it, like you take the red pill and you see how far the rabbit hole goes. Or you take the blue pill and go, I'm just gonna complain and give this a one and a half star or whatever, because I don't I don't quite I'm not ready for the ride. But what is really funny and genius is the cat. I thought that cat looks like an animatronic, weird, like I'm like, that is a weird cat. speaker-0: This is an expensive this is like a this is a no expense movie, so why does that cat look like speaker-1: Why didn't they get a cat? And then and then obviously with the reveal it all makes sense. 'Cause I was like, Don't get me wrong, Tom Cruise does a really good job of of loving an animatronic cat. Like yeah speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: it that's again, give him an Oscar for that, because it's amazing. god, speaker-2: That vet putting a thermometer bird on that was that went that went right up to the fucking sternum. speaker-0: That went right. speaker-2: That was uncomfortable to watch, even though you know it was a cat still. speaker-1: Yeah, I felt for the cat. I absolutely felt for the cat. but yeah it was speaker-0: You know, it it's it is it i i it's fast and it's timing and it's com and that's why there's so many little bits in it that you know, we we you know, we shot again and again and actually we shot some little bits out si little tiny little moments out of sequence of like the little looks that we have with each other that then in the edit it just works so well. speaker-1: That that's one of my favourite bits when when they're all at the table, the whole kind of like board meeting of all of the the highest heads on the planet speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: together. Yeah. And then they're like, Well, give us the explanation and then you're looking at each other like, What the fuck? Like, I don't fucking and like it's like it's like kids trying to push each other in front, going, Well, you tell them, you tell I don't know. I don't know. man, it's so speaker-2: That's why don't think that a lot of sorry to pigeonhole Americans, but I thought a lot of Americans might not get some of the the the parody and the and the jokes in there 'cause it's some of the jokes are not laugh out funny, the jokes are kind of on government saying this is ridiculous. And it is is an extreme version, but there's so many elements that are actually kind of true. And that boardroom when they're when they say those horrible things and they go, like, excuse me, there's there's women present. And they all when they will look around and then start laughing. That was brilliant. speaker-0: Yeah, exactly. speaker-1: It's well it's the misogyny, isn't it? It's someone that knows that it no women were there to make a dis a a really important decision that could affect the world. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: And it and it was done differently. It it didn't take

a lot of acting, you know, from my point of view to stand there and just feel disgusted by it. It was it was speaker-2: Rich, that's what I was gonna say. I I was gonna say, like, from all your scenes, 'cause when you first appear in that room with Tom Cruise and Riz Ahmed, the and it's the the three of you standing there advising, you know, Digger, Tom Cruise of what he needs to do and that there's problems i i in the world basically, without going into too much detail. I was gonna say how difficult was it to act petrified And confused at standing in front of Tom Cruise. I imagine it didn't take any effort at all. speaker-0: Nothing at all. Yeah. It's like we me me and James have spoken about that quite a lot who I this my senior partner, the you know, James James Ryden. We were both with with Riz the whole time and and and we were sort of saying, you know, like it was just to stand there and be absolutely petrified. But funny enough, Riz was with us on that as well. Like when we'd go off, he's like I'm petrified, you and he'd go, But your Riz, how how are you you know but the stakes were so high for him and and And actually it was there was one day where Tom wasn't in rehearsals near the beginning where I think it was a a Mission Impossible, you know, he was because he was sort of st filming the two. We had the we had the sort of the script supervisor reading in and we kept we're getting these sense Aleandre couldn't understand why we were like he was like, No, it's terrible. No, you know, and we were we we me and James were generally like, Well, it's because We're not petrified, you know, it's it it you know, we're not really petrif you know. And and that said, we had no reason to be petrified of Tom because he was the most generous actor and the most, you know you know, disciplined and kind birth and there was there was there was nothing really other than that his Tom Cruise. So, you you're naturally y you know you are. But and and but his whole his whole you know, his manner in that scene was just like it was just it was yeah, incredible. It was overwhelming. speaker-1: He's quite a frightening character. He is quite a frightening character because he's so like Digga Rockwell is such a presence. And just the way he can kind of cut through you. Like But that one of my favourite moments that I think again is acted brilliantly by everyone is when all your phones start to go off. And he's carrying through this monologue, which must be so distracting anyway, with all of the phones going, and you're all concerned with like that the shit has seriously hit the fan now. Yeah. And then he then has to say, What the fuck is going on? yeah, or whatever, and it's like Yeah it's speaker-0: Yeah. And again, it's you know, it's fast and it's it it it you know it it was all timing and you know all of you know who who took their phone up, but it it was all that and it's so precise and the the precision of it was so so clear and it and it and it and it works. It really works when you watch it you're like that's funny, that's and it and and and real in a way, weird way. speaker-1: Was it like a dance though? Like did did did Alejandro like i is it was it done like step by step, but obviously there's elements of improvisation and 'cause it looked like speaker-0: It was people were speaker-1: Sorry. speaker-0: You know, there was it was it was really choreographed and like I said, there were those little we we did some tiny cutaways where we were literally it would be just to get all those bits right. But one thing that he always did was a bit again, to get that kind of maybe to get the theatrical element to it or just just to get the pace and the energy. We always shot a scene from beginning to end. We never we never just picked up a scene In the middle of the scene and did those three lines. Let's just do that. If if if you wanted to get that bit right, we'd start at the beginning and we'd film the whole scene every time. speaker-1: That's incredible. Because that's again, that's so rare, isn't it? Again, that's theatre in a way. Yeah. Because you'd never just go, right, we'll just go to the middle section. It's like, well let's just do that scene. So we get a sense of w you know, when you're coming on, if you're coming stage left, stage right, whatever it was. The props though, man, like the attention to detail to create the illusion we're seeing a real world. That stuff was blowing my mind. Did you did you get to s I mean, I imagine you got to see a lot of that stuff, like that was it all built? Like, is it like a proper set with all of those things, or is some of it kind of like superimposed? 'Cause that plane, could you go into that plane if you wanted to take a selfie? Like obviously maybe you weren't allowed, but speaker-0: No, it was it was very much a no phone set. But but yeah, ev everything was there. Everything was everything was there and was real and was you know other than, you know, what you see outside the windows or wherever that all of that comes later and visual effects and some of the ceilings, but everything was you know, it was built like this mas you know, the mass I think they had like three s sa stages at Pinewood that were constantly in use. speaker-1: Wow. speaker-2: That's what was impressive, wasn't it? When you left a scene and then you could you turned round, you could see the big boardroom and you could see the big UN thing and then you just went down to his little little closet, his little backstage bit but saying speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: like w Drew Drew told me about you being in the film just before I watched it, and obviously I don't know you, but he he showed me who you were and pointed out who you were in the trailer. So like I'm sure it felt ten times better for Drew, but I was watching it going I wonder what this guy's in, if he's like a non I don't know anything yet. I haven't seen it and it's teases in a trailer but not enough. And I was like, maybe he does

have a speaking part, maybe he's just on for two seconds and the fact you had loads of speaking parts must have you must have been so proud of that. But for Tom Cruise to actually speak directly at you and have you have a conversation with him speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: in a polite friendly way before he started shouting at you guys that speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: must have been such an overwhelming experience that when you left you probably had to like decompress or something like having to one on film, that must have been an impressive speaker-0: Absolutely. There are moments where, you know, just in the car on the way home you'd be sitting there and I'd be like actually just catching my breath and thinking, I can't believe I've just done that today. I can't believe I'm I'm involved in this. It's so big and it's just so exciting and massive and you know, almost something that, you know, I hadn't even imagined would happen. You know, I didn't I that wasn't on my it wasn't on my my my radar, so it was Yeah it was yeah. speaker-1: The the FBI script you thought you were going up for. Yes. speaker-0: Exactly. Yeah. When I was like, what is this? Yeah. speaker-2: How how was it in the room with the boardroom with all those guys? Especially like I mean I've I'm a particular fan of John Goodman. I think he's particularly gone from strength to strength and become such a from a from like a s you know, a r what's it, a soap soapbox? What what type of like that speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, to to now the difference is phenomenal. Was there like any fun moments where you were just sitting back watching, you know, Tom and John and all these other actors like converse with each other and some mad stories that you're allowed to say or? speaker-0: Yeah, no, I mean all all all the time. I mean, something with with with John Goodman does something different every take. He experiments and and and plays every take and there's always a tiny little bit of improvisation or just a different way of doing things and and it it was just such a fascinating watch but but also it was you know it was so grotesque as well, you know, and and unfortunately so close to home, you know, so so on the nose and some of the script that was written before certain things have happened or certain things have been said in reality. Things about Greenland, for example, that was there and then and then we were like it happened a few months or so later and we were like where the you know speaker-2: They talked about Greenland years ago, didn't they? That was in the script years ago. And Trump mentioned it literally this year that he wanted Greenland for a base. You're like speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. You're like so you kind of you think it's so it's meant to be the film's meant to be so absurd and yet what what's brilliant is it's this absurd but this kind of believable absurdity and then that makes the whole thing so much more scary 'cause you're like 'cause you think, this you know, could this happen? Is it you know, how close are we to these sort of things happen, you know? speaker-2: Turned into a Simpsons episode where they keep predicting stuff. speaker-0: Exactly, yeah. speaker-2: I i if only the John Goodman disease was prediction. that bit where he's like it's got I've got I've got cancer of the arse. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, that's gonna be brilliant. speaker-1: But then it's good thing. speaker-2: Yeah, but i when he sinks it to the way the world goes speaker-1: That's what I'm gonna say, the narcissist. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: When you say like the methane gas is is an analogy for my asshole or whatever it is. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-2: Proper narcissist, yeah. speaker-0: Absolutely. And also that, you know, that I've seen that GO, things like this happen all the time. It's not my problem. It's not my f you know, like, you know. and that kind of that dissonance between them where he's like, Well, no, it is your problem because, you know, you you let us have it. You know, you you let us have so so therefore it's your problem, you know, that whole kind of it's very and again, that very that kind of again, not to be politically but things that have happened, you know, with with world leaders and very influential people that that that that are very close for one minute and then they fall out another minute and you know it it's yeah, there's some real reality. speaker-1: The the the bit where they're gonna press the button was genius as well because when he goes, I'm gonna press the red button and it's like it's and he's like, There's three books. What? I've gotta do some reading and it's like the idea that it's not the cliche thing that we all as audience members think you press a button and a missile blows up a country. speaker-0: Actually you've got to go through the whole process. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, you gotta do the homework first. And he's like, nah, nah, nah, nah, I don't wanna read. speaker-2: I don't know how good this film was because again I I think anyone that didn't like it, they just didn't get it or they didn't have an open mind and they didn't get the concept, which it's not that difficult I don't think. But speaker-0: Personally. speaker-2: the the fact that it does move through a few different kind of spaces, I love that obviously there's a lot of meta stuff going on, but I love that the reveal I mean, this is a spoiler episode, we've said this at the beginning anyway, so goes from the play into the reality, realizing that Digger, Tom Cruise is an actor. So it's an actor playing an actor playing a role. But speaker-0: Which is speaker-2: then the other level is that this is actually happening for real. And it's this whole play is about something that happened twenty five years ago or something. speaker-0: Yes, yeah. speaker-2: No. That's another thing you don't realise till the towards the very, very end. And then that's upsetting. That's like, wow, this has gone bleak, but

still funny. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: Yep. And and I think and Sophie Sophie Wilde her care as a director she sort of she does sum that up. She sort of sums this up idea of like people need this, people need to laugh at this to be able to cope and it g and I and I think again, funny enough, timing wise and where we are in the world right now and what you know what we went through during COVID and stuff like that, that kind of concept I think it's the the only thing I can alike on that the whole world has experienced this big traumatic horrendous event. And actually the idea that sometimes you need art to and and and and laughter. Those sitcoms that were brave enough to at the time to go, well our season's been, you know, delayed, so when we bring it back, it'll all be about, you know, us having to wear masks at work and and it'll all you know, the COVID will we'll we won't we won't shy away from it. We'll bring COVID into into the the storyline of the sitcom and so and I think those those those sitcoms are really brave and they they now You know, they're like a t they're gonna be like a time capsule in you know, 'cause when you wa watch that back up that they they're a real memory of that time and the absurdity of that time and all the and I think that actually art is really important in in in in in sort of speaker-2: conversations, doesn't it? And it's it's important for everyone to watch these sort of thing. Like people say that films are just something you passively watch. I d I don't agree. Like there's so many messages that can be perceived. Like, you know, you know, you guys are not doctors, you're not doing something first hand. But I think actors can actually influence a larger medium of people with their characters, whether they're paying someone despicable or someone lovable or it the the stories can really change people's opinion. You watch a film when you're in your teenagers, it might change your entire outlook on life and change your personality. Some of these things are really, really important. And I think this film is is a really, really good film and it's really important. And I would urge anyone to watch it genuinely. speaker-1: I think off the back of that, what I love about the film as well is it's the idea that in this kind of dystopian world now, people are risking their lives to go to the theater. So I love the fact that they're still they might have to cross like flooded cities just to go and see this play. And it's the idea that theatre is still fighting to be relevant and survive. And that's why I thought it hit home in the sense that. It's interesting that Tom Cruise is playing like like you imagine that he's a big movie star, the character he plays, which I think is god, Curtis speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Curtis Mark Markson or something. But like the the ima imagine he's like the Brad Pitt of of of this futuristic world and it's the idea that they're bringing celebrities to the theatre to try and bring back

the life in theatre, which is kind of what's happening in the West End, you know, with people like Jillian Anderson and people like that where they're bringing They bring in big names to try and go, listen, we know that everyone is kind of obsessed with TV and and people don't truly appreciate the arts on a on a theater level or go to the stage, but we'll give them a reason to go to the stage because it's some of the T V people they know and love or movie stars. and I thought that was quite a meta and and powerful moment in the film itself as well. But it it is such kind of like a a black mirror. Episode that a lot of people are talking about. That's why my analogy was Birdman meets Black Mirror, because especially some of those clever reveals at the end, and it does a massive meta moment for the audience when if you wait till the credits roll for a wee while it then goes level four. And you're like, What? So it it's like we're about to put on our weird ass masks and step out into the unknown. speaker-2: I messaged you to see if you got that. It felt like it was in the cinema. It didn't feel like it w you were watching it because it's level four for the audience is the is the warning that, you know, when the audience is watching Tom Cruise perform on stage, it says level four, that means put your masks on, the door's got to open, you're gonna get the bad air now. And then when the credits appeared, the light the not the house lights, but you know, like the the lights on the side of the cinema screen. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: So you it's not fully lit, but it's partially lit and the warning for it so you can see the steps come on and a like a tanoi behind your head came on saying level for speaker-1: It's the same music as well, though, which is creepy as hell, because it's the same sound that like level four. And you're like, what? So talk about immersive experience. This is like the way that Alejandro was kind of crafted this to go. This this I've never felt like this. Like a film was never hit me this much. It felt like that bit in the Matrix where Neo taps the mirror and he goes, That's what Digger did to me, man. Like it just speaker-2: Like you're part of something, doesn't it? Because that ending, the very, very ending where it says level four, it's not like every other disaster film where the reality everyone's burning and looting and killing each other. They just put the masks on and go about their business. And there's still homeless people with no masks, like in the water. Yeah. It's just society continues, but we've got ma it's like the pandemic. If someone wrote the pandemic as a movie, we would be killing each other, we'd be doing all sorts of shit. No, we just sat in, watched Netflix and did a a ten minute walk every now and again. Like speaker-0: People still luckier than others, you know. You you you were lucky if you had to like, you know, furlough or if you didn't have furl, or it or or if you, you know, you could still work

or you know, all that and and I think what it does beautifully is kind of it shows how the world has evolved and changed and actually you know, if you look very closely, there's like there's like a a robot walking walking in it outside and also just the whole all the kind of the the screens and stuff like that that they use, you know, and you imagine actually maybe, you know, in in the future is that like how they operate things i in in a in a much you know in in the future that's how how maybe theatre could work. but so they're still able technology is still going on, but you can't but but you know, when you go outside you can't mother nature's mother nature like and and it and it and it's You know, you you can still evolve and you can still create technology and you can still maybe move forward. But if if the world is you know, if the world is sort of in ruins then the world is in ruins, there's nothing you can do to you can't fight nature once once you've ruined it. speaker-2: Just gotta crack on, haven't you? Just live your life and do the best you can. That's that's the reality, that's the bleak reality that you can't do anything about it. speaker-1: That note though, I just want to talk about how how like s really clever elements of the film as well, because talking of elements, you've got the four elements in the film. So you've got the fire, water, earth, and air, because the crackling of the fire in in some of those scenes at the beginning, yeah, it creates what's that? speaker-0: really hot by the way. Which was really hot because you had you had all the all the like the lights and stuff like that and then they'd be like now we're putting the fire on and we put speaker-2: And then they'll put you in a bit. speaker-0: hot Tom's air the Tom's air in it. Well Tom's in the big the big light the big kind of the the suit, the prosthetics and all the rest of it. Shit, yeah. Like yeah. Yeah the fire and the and the the the air is a big thing as well. speaker-1: Yeah, so you've got the w the water dripping, which I thought was really clever when they close the door and it's like the the kind of mountain that's melting in that bit where Riz Ahmed's character gets drunk. which is clever because then you've got the the droplet sounds is a very kind of powerful and poignant sound. Then, like you're saying, the air, because like the way that they're talking about it's unbreathable. And then you've got the earth kind of like literally the earth is is being destroyed by the methane, but also with the the digging. The idea of digging through the earth to get to the oil. So there's there's so many kind of deep, kinda symbolic elements to it. I just speaker-2: Yeah, I agree. And I tell you what, I love the scene where who is it? It's it's Tom and John Goodman looking out the window and he's talking about his his arse cancer and they're just they they pause and it's a really lovely moment. They're looking out of that window and it's a beautiful scene with

a tree and the the mountains and they there's it's silence, nothing. And then the tree just falls over over nothing. I was like, what the fuck? At that point I was like, right, wait a minute, what the fuck is going on? Because everything does look stylized. And then at that point you're like, It's just just a quirky moment? And then the guy pops up speaker-1: Yeah, but it it wasn't that part for me. It was when you see the guy's head is this size and I thought, wait, are these are these small miniature people? Like I thought it was like this weird little world where they're like the miniatures and they're looking out and it's big humans. I was like, What? speaker-2: Suppose that's the thing at the at the beginning, you you are trying to cause it is sort of theatrey acting as opposed to realistic acting for at the beginning. So you're like, what am I? It takes a little while for your brain to adjust to what what you are kind of watching. And like say when it when he's waking up in bed and he's feeding the cat, that big picture scene, you're like, is that frame picture? Is that a window? Is that he's so rich he's got a fake image that that you do? So I did think it might be a fake image, but I assume computer generated, not an actual model with a camera. speaker-1: Also, sorry, sorry, but also it's the it's the stage, it's the theatre. That's what I realized like speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: it's so clever curtains up. And then if you watch really carefully, this is why this is definitely a movie I'm gonna clearly buy, but when you watch it in certain moments you can actually see the audience, it's an empty auditorium. And in certain scenes, when the camera goes past that way, you can actually see the auditorium and you're like, fuck, that's just genius. Attention to detail like speaker-2: But it's only it's been out less than a week and Drew's already seen it twice. speaker-0: Yeah. Yes. That's the way you meant. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: That's how I that's how I roll, guys. That's how I roll. speaker-2: That is the beauty of this film. When you watch it for the first time, it's a certain film. If you watch it I know what I'm I kinda guess what I'm feeling. The second watch has got to be completely different, right, Drew? 'Cause you know speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: you know you're watching a play. speaker-0: We're looking out for it, yeah. speaker-1: One hundred percent, but then for me, I start probably watching more of the scenes and just realising just how amazing the scenes are. Like that scene on the plane with Riz Ahmed and Tom Cruise is fucking incredible, man. And that whole weird analogy with the tuner and like I laughed out loud so hard on that tuner scene now when when he speaker-0: And there's an element of there there's an element of fun there that's really charm actually. It really makes me laugh that scene because he's got a real playfulness about him. And there was there was a 'cause he when he does the the whole tuna thing and he's gives a whole story and then he goes at the he goes, I'm just I don't know where that tuna you that and he's got that twinkle in his eyes. Yeah. There was one day it was like a it w it was the end of a really long day. It was one of those kind of, you know And there was there was, you know, it was probably everyone was probably, you know, tired and stuff. And the continuity Lisa, who is continuity and script supervisor, was was saying, no, it Tom, it's in your it was in your right hand, like that, whatever it was, you know. And and he was like, right. So so my left, like that? And she was like and she 'cause she's she's behind a screen, you know, sh she wasn't anywhere near us and she's like, No, no, you're right and he kept on looking at us and he was going, My left then, my left. And she's going, No no, you're right and he's going he's going, so my left. My le okay, I've got it, my left, you know. And he and he just was looking at us with that same twinkle in his eye of that like, I'm just having fun now. I'm just like speaker-1: In the piss. speaker-2: Yeah. you're right, it's my left. you're right, it's my left. Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was kind of completely taking a piss and just having fun with it and that twinkle of like, I'm just I'm just doing this for fun now. And obviously kind of probably using his privilege of knowing that you know, no everyone's a bit scared, you know, like he knows, you know, everyone so Lisa's going, No You're speaker-1: Away with it. speaker-0: you're you're left. yeah, I've got it in my right, don't worry, you know. speaker-1: I was thinking I'm speaker-2: Such tough job being a continuity ex guy on this because like you say, you didn't just do a little you didn't if if there was a mess up or you wanted to do a different bit, you didn't just do a few seconds, you start from the beginning. But speaker-1: There's the speaker-0: Things will change, you know. speaker-2: But they're still used like reshuts of each one, aren't they, from different ones and merge all together to test bits sometimes. speaker-0: There would have been bits that you couldn't have y like we we like James had a a backpack on for that the office scene originally for like the th and we shot I think we shot for six hours with a backpack on and then Aleandra was like lose the backpack and we were like So basically we said we've just lost those you know but it didn't matter because that was all like Tom said, you know, there's no such thing as a bad take, it's not about getting there it's about the experimenting and everything that we did there was the rehearsal for whatever take they did use. So it didn't matter to them. And you know, I guess that's there is an element of of, you know, when there's time and money to to be able to do that, that's great. You know, 'cause that's speaker-1: Heard that he did the he did the monologue 18 times. I heard speaker-0: I can imagine I can imagine speaker-1: Alejandro said in in one

of his kind of like written interview things that he was just like I can't I could I could not believe but then again obviously I can believe because it's Mr. Cruz who's like the hardest worker in showbiz. The fact that I mean you imagine because when I watched it again a second time, it looks tiring, as in like I can imagine how intense that scene is. To not only remember all that dialogue, 'cause part of me wants to jump on and look up the screenplay to see how much text he has, to be like speaking, doing a monologue for like ten minutes, man. Like with all the extras, like all the different camera movements, like all the different emotions, and to add the humor as well. Like that's why I'm like, man, the hats are off. speaker-2: The whole speaker-0: There was like a whole audience of extras like of of you know, it was like there was which adds another element of like yeah and and actually to get that shot that, you know, that there has to be a lot of faith in all of those supporting artists to be doing the right thing at the right time as well. And there was like stump people in there and there was all all sorts you know, there was actors in there that's speaker-1: It's like, imagine he did that whole scene and the guy that threw the shoe and it missed. You're like, No, go again. You're like, Fucking hell, man. You had one job, just hit me in the face for shoe. And it's like y you got all these different everything comes together to create it. It's so speaker-2: That bit made me jump. When someone hit him with a shot, I thought, Jesus like and then two seconds later I was in the middle of going, my god and I almost missed him kick that woman. You're speaker-1: Jesus, yeah. speaker-2: like, What? None of that looked fake. None of that looked fake. I was speaker-0: It's probably I understand there were a lot there were a lot of stump people in that, but then they had to be there the whole time, you know, for their continuity. So that they they weren't, you know, because it was speaker-2: Did someone fall from the balcony? I'm swear I was looking over there and something happened over there. I was like there's so I don't speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: know Tom was so engaging, the background had so many characters that I was looking around and speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: people 'cause there's so many things happening. speaker-1: Something I noticed as well, talk about like spotting details, was because you know, with most of like the the kind of laws, because it looks like it's taking place in some kind of court type thing, that normally you've got the the scales are balanced, which is normally a big thing in in like law. But in this one, the scales are off balance, which kind of shows the state of the world and the economy. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: So again, that's another little detail for people to watch out for in that particular scene. speaker-2: So Rich, what what from your perspective, what was your favorite part of the experience? And second question, what is the your favorite part of the film as a viewer? speaker-0: I I mean I I had such a great time on all of it. What what I what I did love was it became a film of two parts for f for me. 'cause I really got to sort of get involved in that all of that sort of alpha male stuff at the beginning, w which for my character wasn't, but I was I was completely sort of a sort of the person that was like experiencing this kind of like this kind of, you know, grotesque alpha male and all that s all that stuff that that That the library scene where they're all in the boardroom where they're, you know, the the the the, you know, you know, all there's women present and all of that sort of stuff was it was just it was just so incredible to spectate so much of that because I actually was there watching it all play out as my character but also as an ac a as an actor watching people like just, you know speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: make incredible art. And then I got to also then 'cause got to come back and be involved in some of the stuff where we're a w where I'm sort of an actor, I guess, and I'm sort of, you know, the rehearsal stopped and we're kinda we're coming in to sort of see what's going on. I then get to got to be with a whole another side of the cast, which actually was completely different, 'cause actually if you look the the that cast, it's much more sort of sort of much more open and and and it they're all meant to be artists, I guess. They're all people that work in theatre and and and and so it was a whole it was like being a part of two different films at the same time. So that was that was pretty special. But I guess I think like that office scene at the beginning was probably my favourite film 'cause it was just It was the pinch me moment of I'm I'm in a scene, there's four people in this scene. One of them's Tom Cruise, one of them's Riz Ahmed, and then here I am with with James who's also incredible. And I'm just you know, it's just us. And that that fell. And because I knew that That scene is so pivotal, it's like the it's like the the scene that kinda starts a story. Like or or I mean you've had the Sandy Clarkson scene, the scene you've had the scene on the the video call, but that's the scene where you come in to say, and now the shit's really gonna hit the fan and and it's it's speaker-1: that's when I lost my mind when I saw you on the big screen, dude. I just lost my mind. And I was There's no Chad Like I was close I I I was a bit more, you know, controlled than that. Like but yeah. speaker-0: But I I I think to view it, I think I think the the EU scene that that that whole the scene in the you know in in the in the EU in with with Tom's. speaker-1: In that weird tent where you're all watching the shit hit the fence. speaker-0: Yeah. No, that was that was the what what they w what do we call the Situation Room, that's called. So that's meant to be actually speaker-1: Yeah, what's up? speaker-0: Yeah, so that wa

actually that was that was Yeah. So I mean the experiment in in there went so far as th I I I think I could say it because in one of the trailers it makes a trailer, there was a white horse that kind of speaker-1: Say that the horse wasn't in the actual movie, yeah. speaker-0: But we but I don't know I don't know why they've chosen to put it in the trailer but not the movie. But we'd filmed the whole scene again, we'd filmed it o you know pr over a couple of weeks, you know, different ways and di and and played and did different things with it. And it'd been it'd been much bigger and much smaller and there was lots of people eating popcorn while watching it and then some of that got cut and then some you know, some of it stayed and but and then and then on this last day they said, we're gonna try something else and the horse Came and circled us. And and it was just so avant garde and so ridiculous that somehow worked. But I I I kind of understand why it probably didn't make the cut because I think that actually I mean that bit where it where the set then revolves around which is fascinating to me because it didn't. You know, that's the you know, that's the incredible really Yeah, that set wasn't you know, that set wasn't there on the other you it's just clever I mean I don't know how they do it. speaker-1: It's just really clever the way it's pans across. Like it's speaker-0: They panned across and then they've obviously you know, they've obviously edited that. Yeah, so it's just crazy s yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, speaker-0: But so that was s such a strong moment. But yeah, the the th that that the Situation Room was was really fun to film, but speaker-1: Think another reason I love this movie so much, and I'm probably gonna be talking about it for years to come, is the fact that it feels like you're inside a promenade theatre as well. You know, it's like take a left at this door, go through this door, it's a different space. There's all these different little doors and secret passages that interlink and and keeps the story going in different s you know, spectrums and different circumstances, and it it's it's almost like a Russian doll of just it just keeps taking you somewhere new. speaker-0: Funny enough that I again it's quite met but the the the you cocause I w you know, I when we were doing it I was sick I was sort of saying, Gosh, you know, if this was a real theatre production it would be the most expensive theatre production to have ever been made, you know, like how how has someone spent this much money on theatre, you know, like with how incredible the set would have been. But then I c I guess when you kind of get there in the end with Jesse Plummings character and you kind of work out who he is and where that money's come from and you go, okay, well that maybe that, you know, makes a bit of sense that that that speaker-2: Bigger money he's paying for it, yeah. I'm speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-2: so happy for Jesse Blumens because obviously he's an amazing actor, but speaker-1: Okay. speaker-2: the couple of little minor appearances I made, it was like I love the film, but he is criminally underused here. This that's a shame. And then the reveal you're like, good. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Got his money. speaker-2: And for such a small part it made it made such a a huge impact. speaker-0: yeah. speaker-1: That's one of the most powerful moments though, again, where it pulls the rug, like like you were saying, Rich, that the end when he starts talking, he's like, Turn those things off. He's like, None of it matters and he's like, But it all matters and he's like, and then that's when the camera reveals you're all one big ensemble, that you're all part of a company of actors and you're trying to tell a horrendous story that's already happened. speaker-2: And he didn't feel important enough to be able to tell everyone to shut up. So when he told everyone to shut up and they did, I was like, Wait a minute, who the fuck what? I know producers are high up. But but then again there's loads of little involved. speaker-1: There's those little clever moments 'cause then the little ginger kid that looks a little bit like Ed Sheeran, that's him. That's a little boy actor playing him. So when he's on the phone, it's really clever because then it's got little nuances of he's added himself to the story of what the play is and obviously he's the one producing and funding it. Like yeah, there's so many nuances. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. She was fucking brilliant as well, man. Wow. Yeah. Talk about cast again. Rich, yes. Sandra Huller from Project Hell Mary in there as well. Let's just drop another mic. Like, wow. The cast one of speaker-0: Same the cast, yeah. speaker-1: the best casts of twenty twenty six that you are massively a part of, dude. I speaker-0: Yeah. That's great. Everyone, you know, it was just Yeah. And every everyone was just so well cast. And I think that's the thing, isn't it? speaker-1: It's like I think it's gonna help theatre as well, if I'm honest. Cause like I was saying to my brother, 'cause I when I watched it a second time with my brother, when we were coming out, I was like, bro, that was like watching Tom Cruise on the West E in the West End. Yeah. Like because of they kept all those beautiful kind of theatrical moments. And that's what I love. Like it reminded me of god, what was it? Emmin Enemy I can't remember the name of that for No, no, there was an amazing play at the National Theatre and I can't remember Man Man Man of Mode or something like and it and but there was like where it shows the ensemble and then something will happen like a light will go above and everyone freezes or it r reminded me a little bit of like Black Watch. I don't know if you ever saw Black Watch on stage, but it it just it captured the magic of stage with the mind blowing elements of film. And for me, that hybrid is what makes this one of the most exceptional experiences

in in cinema history, in my opinion, man. It's yeah it's in my top five, I reckon, of actually all time. Like kind of go a bit a bit out there now, really. speaker-0: Yeah. Interesting. No, I mean it's it was such an honour and such a privilege to be a part of and I think speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: I think that's what you know, that that love of theatre and that that that that that interest in theatre was something that was really at the forefront I think. And so yeah. speaker-2: Like we said before, it shares that DNA with Birdman and Birdman was one of my top films of the last speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: and I don't know much about theatre, but just the fact that it was so brave and experimental, like this film where it does the one take and the drummer is actually in the shots and and it does all these sort of mad things that it feels like such a real it's actually the opposite of Digger if you think about it, 'cause Digger is fake to begin with, because you don't realise it's a play. And then it reveals the truth. Whereas Birdman feels very real and grounded, like you you know, dad and his daughter in the theatre company, he's breaking up with people, it's horrible, it's and then it goes a bit fantastical towards the end. And it goes like crazy. But you do you do not expect that at any stage. So it's it's a really interesting kind of dichotomy of how it kind of works. speaker-1: I I think I feel like this the Digger is almost more poignant than Birdman in its own sense because Birdman speaker-2: But speaker-1: is like inside a vacuum. It's like all of the actors, the ego, but like the kind the fighting, the the story and the kind of mental health and the demons and the expectations and the stuff that's on your shoulders. Whereas Digger feels more poignant in the sense that it's about the lack of do of having responsibility and doing the right thing and being reminded of something that's already happened that we were too late to change. And I think that's what makes it incredibly haunting, but also which which hits us now because I feel like we're on a cusp now in the world. And it's like we're sitting back watching the shit unfold, literally like what we're doing when we're watching Digger, going, they cannot change it. But we have the ability to change it, but we're not changing it. And it's like it it speaker-0: But I think the people in power aren't changing it. That's the that's the big you it's that the people that could don't care, you know, like actually 'cause what can we do? But you know, actually we're being you know, we're just being mugged off the whole time. I don't think that that was one of the sorts, you know, the idea that that the the powers that be are just laughing at us was was was was a was a was a one of our kind of like through lines when we were speaker-2: It's good that there's no heroes in that sense, that all the people are disgusting humans really. None of them are that redeemable. They're they're they're all bad

people. But speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: but again, like even if you're watching it or you're listening to this, you know, do not think it's just purely that. It is just a fun ride and it is entertaining. So even if you speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: care about climate climate change or politics, this is still fun even if you don't like those subjects. It's just a story. It's amazing. speaker-1: I was getting that that moment where the the play finishes and everyone behind the wings and like cheering each other on and stuff and that that hit me, man, because obviously there was times in my life when I did theatre and I remember that, you know, that first night feeling when you're with everyone and everyone holds hands and then it pushes them up through the foil and they all take a bow and I was like, man, I I missed that and I think I think Alejandro's captured that That's when you see that everyone is lovely though, Kev. You know when you're saying they're all playing horrendous people. Yes, yeah. But the real actors are just lovely people that love telling story. They're just tell storytellers. speaker-2: Plot of of Tom Cruise's daughter going missing and can't find it. And Jesse Plemens, because he's so rich, has got a security company that can source where the airplane disappeared from the radar, didn't crash, it just the radars went down. He found it, and Tom Cruise acting there when he's so stressed about his daughter, and then when he does the airplane scene with John Goodman, that one in the trailer that was so brilliant as well, like that that sequence there, and Tom Cruise just gives up, he can't be bothered. I I like w w when you saw all the 'cause he makes so much effort through the entire film, like pure acting. And that scene when he started being a bit nonchalant, you're like, What's going on here? Yeah. speaker-1: You can't be asked any speaker-0: I mean that's where there is a little bit of that that kind of I guess similar to that birdman, that that ego of the actor where he's like he's all 'cause he has a little argument about the oxygen mask beforehand and he's like, I don't think he should be it's like he can't get it out. He's like, Well, I don't I you know, he's a like but but there is stuff going on in his personal life that's bringing through, but it's also like it's not it's not the i you know, and and I I like the idea of 'cause I feel like I'm an actor like that sometimes. I know and I couldn't be on the on the film, but you know, when I theatre I'll I'll like, but it has to work for me. I don't understand you know, and he can't get over the fact that like artistically they've put the the president and the vice president in the same plane and he's like but but but but you know and I I and I really kind of I really resonate with that as an actor, that kind of thing of like, but when it but if it doesn't make sense then it's not why are we doing that? You know, and I can imagine how that cur Tom Cruise's like the actor character of Curtis could kind of like You know, that could be enough for him to go, Right, I can't go with I can't do this scene like this 'cause it's ridiculous. speaker-1: Yeah, you're fine really. speaker-2: It takes you out. It was like looks good. No, it doesn't. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: Well it's like well well it breaks the fourth wall within the fourth wall when they're in the play and he's got that scene with his little boy but his actual phone goes and I think it's his wife saying, We've got her, we've got her and you're like, fuck, it's all good, it's all good and you're like, Hang on a minute, 'cause everyone's like, What's going on? And it's always like, Is he just forgotten his line? Like, is he improvising? What the fuck is going on? speaker-2: Clearly that's t that well, unless I'm wrong, that felt like two sets. When he's doing that sequence, the camera does move around and you don't see the audience at one point, then it moves around again and you do see the audience. It felt like he was on a real set and then they recreated it in a thing. I feel like it was two separate ideas. speaker-1: you mean it was like it was like the rehearsals when he answers speaker-2: There's one that looked like out of water and then there was the other one where it's clearly tinfoil or white. speaker-1: Yeah but speaker-0: the whole time they're trying you kind of I guess you kind of there's an artistic license with it, isn't it, where you kind of you know sometimes you know you're on a set and then you kind of get immersed into it and you can believe it for a bit and then no actually we're on a set and then you get yeah kind of speaker-2: 'Cause that that that that stage where we were standing on was quite big and the camera went really far back and it was still a still a boat and then when it cut to it the scene's actually quite small so the the camera could never have done that. So they've ha clearly had two sets built and done to it two different ways, which I love. speaker-1: Which what was what was that style that I again I believe it's a play where they break the fourth wall on purpose where like they'd be like, This is actually like speaker-0: Like a Brecht kind of like almost. speaker-1: Brecht. Yeah, I love books like that. And if I'm if I'm honest, every time they break it, it just shows how amazing every actor is in that movie. Because you go, We're doing it's a play, remember? And then the scene starts, you're like, No, it's not, it's the scene. You're like, my god, no, it is a play. And it's like, it just shows how good everyone is, because they just pull you back in. So yeah, that Brectian quality was was genius. That there's a clever bit though where the two worlds collide, because you know when Tom Cruise is behind the scenes and he's he's on the phone to his missus or on the phone to his daughter. You see there's like a little monitor above that says level three, so it's building to the level four part later on,

which is really speaker-2: And he wouldn't notice my first one. speaker-0: Okay. speaker-2: Really really. speaker-1: See this is why I love returning to films because speaker-2: We didn't know what level four was till the very ending, so I wouldn't have yeah. I wouldn't have clicked on a level three written anywhere. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like this little thing that's building on this kind of monitor screen that's inside the theatre so they they're they're aware of the weather is changing, so speaker-2: Yeah, the top there was like a green bar. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, dude. speaker-0: There was like a like there is that element of like everyone c you can kind of see everyone looks very sweaty and like hot and like this this idea that we're living in this in a in a different climate or a different yeah a different atmosphere and Yeah. Yeah. It's speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: it's speaker-2: O have you got anything lined up next? Like what's your next schedule? I know if as an actor it's sometimes like stream beef stuff or theatre rather than film or whatever. Yeah. speaker-0: Doing I'm doing sort of theatre so I'm doing I'm doing pantomime at Christmas. So I mean like like from the sublimes are ridiculous you know, like s the other world but so yeah, so that that'll be more Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean speaker-1: Mind you. speaker-0: it's the h the whole other kind of world of, you know, you have literally a week to rehearse and then it's up and running and let's go, you know, the complete you know, which is so different to this, you know, the absolute you know, the privilege that we had on the on the film of all the time in the world and, you know, just to get it right and perfect. speaker-2: But again, that's that's why you're chosen because they were looking for theatre type actors that can do entire scenes back to front again and again and because your average actor might not be able to do that or have the ability to kind of 'cause that could be quite frustrating to go, there's a slight mistake or I want to do that again, you know, and doing it that le that that could be demoralizing for people. But if you're a theatre actor, it's kind of what you do on a day to day basis. So speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, but speaker-1: Yeah. Couldn't can we be before before you jump off, nails. Because I remember at one point again going back to ministry, you you were talking about this amazing horror and I I think you had lots of different kind of like you had some crazy teeth and like you had long nails. Can can you tell us a little bit about what that process was like? 'Cause I imagine that's obviously very different to speaker-0: Yeah. I mean that was a really fun shoot as well. That was but again that was it was an you know, it's an i an indie budget and it was we filmed in in Dublin. it was an Irish it's an Irish film, with America some American money as well. And we I think it was only a sort of a seven or eight week shoot, so

it was quite intense by comparison. and yeah it was it was it was fun and there was lots of moments on that where we would you know, like I got to you know, with the prosthetics and stuff like that and spend a lot of time in makeup and that meant, you know, I got I got on really well with that that that team and that sort of made that a joy. And we kind of went through different phases, you know, we didn't always have to do the full makeup, so it depended on how we were shooting. Again, it was mu that was much more you know, you could be you know, depending on the shoot we'd depend on if we actually if we're doing close up of hands, then we're probably just doing the hands today and you know we So you would you know you would it would it was much more I guess like like film, much more manipulated and the opposite to the the the kind of the Digger kind of you know the theatricalness of Digger where we were in, you know th full costume, full maker every time. You know? Do you speaker-1: Do you have a favorite genre in in in film? Like what's your favorite? speaker-0: I don't know, I I kind of like lean in into lots of di different things. I mean I I I I like I like sort of drama and thriller. I think like sort of last year I think like the long the long walk was probably my favourite film. That the s the Stephen King and the Long Walk. I th I just thought that really Yeah, that really kind of and again it was that kind of dystopium kind of like it's that I find that kind of level of like thriller and horror sometimes more kind of a actually scarier th than the the nails kind of like the like the the more idea. speaker-1: Yeah, like the horror, fantasy kind of speaker-0: the the kind of the c the con the concept that something that could actually happen or or that you know, how how people can treat other people, I guess, is is what's more worrying. speaker-1: Have have you have you seen any film have you had time to see any films this year? Like what is there any kind of films that you absolutely blow you away? speaker-0: I'm trying to think about what th the last film that really I mean, I think th the long w I know the thing the long walk was last year, wasn't it? But I think that was the last film that properly properly blew me away. And and then for for just want and then for like light hearted fun and for something that had waited for ages, The Devil Wears Prada too, I actually was I was actually like I was here for that as well, 'cause I think we'd wait you know that I think speaker-2: That was good. speaker-0: it was really brave to do it after so long. And to come back to it and for it to still and I and I and I thought it was really significant because it it looked at how that would change and it w it was it was intelligent. I thought it was fun, but it was intelligent about how could someone like Miranda Priestley still survive in in the current climate? How would she have to change her approach? You know, how would she have to, you know,

to work in a in a in a very different world to the the world that she was working in previously and I enjoyed speaker-2: I thought it was quite clever as well. I I I definitely enjoyed it. And it's full circle 'cause Anne Hathaway is now in Tom Cruise's next project speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. And and I and I just watched Interview of the Vampire last night and that's Brad Pitt, Tom Cr Tom Cruise, and now Tom Cruise is doing the F one sort of thing as well. So yeah, I like that. But but Rich, if you're into like the sort of drama films, it sounds on the nose, but if you haven't seen it, you should see the film The Drama. speaker-0: yeah. I haven't seen it but I it's on my I I missed it when it was at the cinema and I I need to see it, yeah. speaker-1: That's deep, yeah. Zendaya and Robert Batson. speaker-2: Say nothing more. The the reveal is what it's about. It seems speaker-1: Yeah. Actually talk about it. Yeah, pull rugs. That's again, that's a nice link to digger. It's got a very moment. speaker-2: It's not what you expect and it is a full drama. And what I'd speaker-1: Yeah, that one. speaker-2: recommend as well is is the invite, talking about theatre. That's basically a theater speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: fiction, comedy, drama. It's speaker-1: One hundred percent. speaker-0: Fantastic. Always up for the recommendations. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-2: But th but thank thank you for coming on and joining us. I don't know if Drew you've got any last points before we go or anything like that. speaker-1: I I d I don't I don't think so. Dude, speaker-2: I'm impressed with the film market. speaker-1: yeah, I just I I just I couldn't be prouder for you, man. Like I speaker-0: thank you. Like and like I mean I think you know, but I just think it's yeah, it was it's just one of those moments of like I just had to laugh it all up while it was happening 'cause I like, this might never happen again and suddenly in this way and this you know, it's just so big and so so incredible and to be a part of something that I knew when we were making it was gonna be so significant. So yeah. speaker-1: Well hope hopefully it opens more doors, man. You get to work with lots of talent people. speaker-2: Whatever. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. You just kind of that's the nature of the business, isn't it? Just kind of like you y you know, you have to sit and wait sometimes. speaker-1: Just roll roll with it, man. You never know what's gonna land on your desk as they say, so speaker-2: No, amazing. Thank thank you so much, Rich, for joining us. speaker-1: Thank you so much, man, for for for coming on and being an awesome guest and doing some deep dives into a bit of your career and that amazing movie Digger, man, and and also your guest role in in Polar, which I was so honored to have you on board and and work with you, man, as well. So yeah. speaker-0: Likewise, likewise. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thank you for having me

and it's yeah, been a pleasure. speaker-1: Yeah, dude. speaker-2: No All right, well well hopefully we'll speak to you again soon. But yeah, thank you very much for everyone for listening. and by the way, hang around for the post credits 'cause we got a little poem by Drew. Anyway, see ya later. speaker-1: This has been Rage Whale. Thanks for hanging out with us. We hope you had a whale of a time. Did you dig it? Fossil fools for fossil fuels, and an angry mob with divided views, arthouse projects where scars are skewed. Polarizing people put against each other by algorithms and strategic news. Wealthy oligarchs treat this planet like fruit till they drain it, till it's out of juice. Chaos explodes to the surface as methane gases are let loose. Digger breaks the ice on this cold horse truth. An apocalyptic stage play with an Oscar win for cruise. Climate change, but Earth's pockets a skint. There's a stenchy in the air as billionaires are making a mint. Air barely breathable, but we still have theater to remind us of the inconvenient truth. Denial is an adult overly optimistic in one's youth. A lesson we never learned no matter how many times Mother Nature gave us the proof. There was a classroom for fools and truants who were only truantin' from the truth. Terrible students of life, denying the floods whilst preparing the ark, like the world was made of paper, won't splash and it all comes apart. As we watch the nightmares unfold, the fabric of our reality frayed. Better decisions put forward but sadly were never made. As the curtains come up on the inevitable dances on our graves, screens of the new gods now as we become their slaves. We watch our world unravel a ball of wool as the chaos ensues. It doesn't matter what brand you wear, we're all walking in the same tarnish shoes. We all get front row seats for this dystopian view, performed by perfection by an ensemble of talent with a cellar casting crew. Level four echoes through the auditorium and corridors as face masks are worn to deal with the mold and bacteria spaws. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Nothing taken seriously by anyone anymore. Because we've all made we're all made out to be jokers. Clowns lost in a mirror maze where we all wear masks so our reflections never change. A world lost in lies as our compassions have caved. Souls are for sale, that's why your time is paid. Destruction from our own doing. The proof is an apocalyptic baked puddin we never wish to taste. A world badly bruised and like damaged fruit just goes to waste. Waiting for the planet to be on life support until we make haste. Where blame is the final nail in the coffin. Laugh at the thought of always knowing. Circumstances never change because the excuses keep on growing. And the biggest joke is greed is the fuel for the fire that melts the ice, that creates the tides and landslides that washes humanity away in the blink of an eye. And with all that wealth still on display, there's no place left for you to pay. A snake devouring its own tail till its intestines are trapped in its thangs. A vicious circle we'll never understand. Is the spade or shovel an analogy? For all the graves we've been digging for humanity. speaker-2: Thank you all for your continued support and please check out our back catalogue of fun episodes with many brilliant guests. Just to remind you, Rage Whale is on Spotify, Amazon, Apple and YouTube, where you can follow and subscribe so you don't miss our next episode. Also you can find us on Instagram and TikTok for fun clips from the show. There are links there for Rage Well merch as well as our email address. If you want to send us a question or your movie opinion, we always love hearing from you. Thanks again for spending your time with us. See you next time.