บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ #21 Australia - Colonial Uprisings, Race Riots and a Military Coup

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WEBVTT 00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:02.399 Welcome to yet another Pudgecast episode. 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:04.080 I'm your host, Oliver Heute. 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:06.799 This is your favorite revolutionary podcast. 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:13.919 Today you might have seen uh with a special topic uh being Australia, which is where this very podcast is recorded. 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:29.920 And the good news for me is I don't have anyone online today, so I can take those off and just speak to my co-hosts in person who've come all the way to the interrogation room to tell us stories about revolutionary Australia. 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:33.679 Now you might think Australia Revolution, that just doesn't happen. 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:34.640 Is that right? 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:35.679 Hello everyone. 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:37.280 Dave Sloan? 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:39.520 Oliver, thank you for having us. 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:41.520 Uh yeah, absolutely, that's right. 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:46.880 There's a lot of revolution, rebellion, riots, and uh fist fights in Australia, and we'll tell you all about it. 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:48.399 But people don't seem to know about it. 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:50.320 James, you're an immigrant, just like myself. 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:56.000 Before you came to Australia, were you aware of any coups or revolutions, riots in Australia? 00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:57.759 Did you ever learn any any of that? 00:00:58.000 --> 00:00:58.320 No. 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:02.000 I think the only thing I was aware of was neighbours and home and away. 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:03.439 Yeah, Crocodile Dundee. 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:04.640 Crocodile Dundee. 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:08.959 Um he was uh a cinema revolutionary, still is, uh Paul Hogan. 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:10.959 But I I have to agree with you, James. 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:15.920 I I don't remember any stories about revolution riots. 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:22.640 Uh I think from abroad, Australia is always perceived as a very peaceful country, very stable political country. 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:28.719 We've had um Federation, which is sort of the Australian form of independence in 1901. 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:31.439 Ever since then, have there been coups or not? 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:33.280 I think some people might argue that. 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:34.959 But today we dig a little deeper. 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:38.560 We go, what, into the 19th century exclusively. 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.079 I think all three topics that you brought along are from the 19th century. 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:46.719 And uh let's give us a little sneak peek in preview. 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:48.480 All right, we're working backwards. 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:52.400 So mine is in 1861, the Lambing Flat riots. 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:55.359 You would never have heard of Lambing Flat, and I'll tell you about that in a minute. 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:56.560 I have no idea, by the way. 00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:02.079 At this time, usually I do a bit of research um to have an idea of who the expert is and what they're talking about. 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.200 Lemming flats means nothing to me, so I'm I'm very excited. 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:06.719 Uh James, what did you bring for us? 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:07.920 Okay, guys and girls. 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:17.520 So today I'm gonna be talking about the Eureka Stockade, which its genesis was in 1851, and its conclusion was in 1854. 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:19.280 Oh, so it went on for a while then? 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:22.159 Well, not really, but I'll explain about that in a minute. 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:22.800 Okay, great. 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.919 But the topic we're starting with today, David Shields. 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:26.479 Hi. 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:28.319 Uh, we're looking at the Rum Rebellion. 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:33.919 So this is the fledgling colony in New South Wales, 20 years after the arrival of the first fleet. 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:39.759 And the first, and up until this point only, military coup in Australian history. 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:44.639 I'm so glad to hear the word coup because that's what putsch means in German, and this is the coup cast. 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:45.520 So Yeah, it is. 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:52.960 Um in order to have a coup, you need a political system that is either overthrown or attempted to be overthrown. 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:53.360 Yes. 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:55.919 So what is the political system at the time in Australia? 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:57.120 So give us an idea. 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:09.120 Small colony um overseen by a governor who uh at his disposal has a um military or the New South Wales Corps as they were called. 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:13.280 Basically, there are still very few free settlers in this colony. 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:14.719 Uh, it wasn't well developed. 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:18.879 There were a number of convicts, so there was free labor um that existed. 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:23.199 The governors uh they took their orders ultimately from the UK. 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:27.039 Governors were replaced um intermittently. 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:36.639 And this story starts with um another figure of history, someone that you're very fond of, um, or his story at least. 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:49.759 It is um when the f the governor Philip King, who was overwhelmed by his duties in dealing with renegade members of the New South Wales military, um, was replaced by William Bly. 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:52.560 So William Bly I know that name. 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:55.919 Um what can you tell me about William Bly? 00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:57.840 Mutiny on the bounty. 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.560 So um it's a story I always loved. 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:05.680 Um uh there's a there's a black and white, there's many uh film adaptation, I think. 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:07.439 Uh there's probably one every decade as

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well. 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:16.160 But um the one that I remember best, and I have a look if we can find some footage because we are now also on YouTube for everyone who's missed that. 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:20.720 So um, if you're on YouTube, you might be seeing some ships sailing across the screen right now. 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:30.160 But um, there's one from the 60s where Marlon Brando plays I can't believe that Fletcher Christian. 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:35.680 Um and I can't, I think Howard something was the name who played Captain Bly. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:41.120 And he's such such a perfect villain, and that's why I think I liked him. 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:48.560 He's like because you sort of sympathize with him because they are in those extreme challenging circumstances. 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:52.879 They're on the other side of the world, you can't just stop and get supplies or anything. 00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:02.560 The Pacific is vast, obviously, and uh uncharted territory, um, quite literally, because this is only a few decades after Captain Cook, right? 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:04.800 So um 20 years old, the colony. 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:05.279 Yeah. 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:09.439 So it's no one would have a clue where they actually are on you know, um, on the map. 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:16.160 And and and the people who were manning those ships were quite questionable characters themselves. 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:20.399 It's not like today where we talk about a professional navy with people who do this for a living. 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:28.800 This is people that were, you know, um gang pressed into uh staying months and months on a ship, um, no matter what circumstances was. 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:33.040 So you got health challenges, you got psychological challenges, you got criminals on there. 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:38.639 And and I I envy, I don't envy anyone who has to uh enforce any form of discipline. 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:45.759 And Bly did this, but he crosses the line and becomes a bit of a sadistic character, and I think that's what the story lives off. 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:55.920 Um and then you you sympathize with um Fletcher Christian, who is this young upstart, honest, righteous man, but then in the end it's like, is he? 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:04.560 And and the amazing thing is, without giving away too much, but obviously he puts him on a little tugboat, is that the word? 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:06.079 Uh a launch, yeah. 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:07.360 So a small open boat. 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:09.040 And uh Bly managed to navigate. 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:19.759 Obviously finding places to stop in um and you know, take on supplies, etc. 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:22.639 But he made it back uh to the Australian mainland. 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.399 And this is where our story starts. 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:30.000 Well, um there is a there is a gap in time between him returning and becoming governor. 00:06:30.160

--> 00:06:33.279 He's appointed governor because he has a reputation as a hard man. 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:42.000 So uh it it wasn't like he was tainted in the eyes of the British um government uh based on what happened on the bounty. 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:53.680 And he was sent to Sydney to clean up this mess um that had sort of taken root uh in the in the fledgling colony due to a number of reasons. 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:55.439 It was an English colony at the time. 00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:02.000 Uh so basically, due to the fact the distance, etc., this colony was short on most things. 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:04.319 Um and currency was one of those. 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:10.560 So the primary form of currency uh and what was used within a barter economy was rum. 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.399 I think rum was used as a generic term for any distilled liquor. 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:31.519 The New South Wales Corps had a monopoly on the importation of rum, and they also began to import um stills, and they were creating or they were distilling their own rum, so effectively printing money. 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:56.959 So this group, this military group, um referred to as a gang, or you could call it a cartel almost, had complete control over this industry, and they were also um not a better by, but another prominent Sydney um resident, a free settler and the wealthiest man in the colony, James MacArthur, had an interest in the uh the rum trade as well. 00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:04.240 Bly was sent in and given the explicit order to basically shut this down. 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:27.680 And um we know how he went on the bounty in terms of his interpersonal skills, and um he made enemies very, very quickly in the colony because, as you can imagine, people who have had the run of the green for 15 years do not want to give up um any of that power or influence uh that they had accrued. 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:40.480 And so William Bly, he um replaced Rum uh with uh a different form of hard currency, which was very unpopular with members of the New South Wales Corps. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:48.559 And also what he did was he challenged MacArthur in terms of the um the land grants that this man was getting from the United Kingdom. 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:57.200 He was getting some of the biggest land grants um for grazing um uh uh in in the colony, and he was very, very wealthy. 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:04.000 So Bly is taking on the wealthiest man in the colony and the military as well. 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:06.080 He is very, very, very unpopular. 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:13.679 The head of the New South Wales Corps was a man called Johnson, and so the three characters in this story are Bly, Johnson, and MacArthur. 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:18.799 The New South Wales Corps, were they sort of akin to like the East India Company? 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:19.919 Were they like a private? 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.480 No, they were lit there was literally just the garrison. 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:32.080 It was a garrison um colony, um, and these were the men who were in charge of keeping order, um pushing the convicts around, telling them what to do. 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:33.440 And they had the they had the run of it. 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:36.720 So it's like a almost like a military junta in a way that they ran this. 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:44.080 And the governor, Philip King Pride Bly was almost impotent in in their in in the face of them. 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:49.120 Just because you you did you did use my favorite word coup at the start, and I'm still trying to understand the political system. 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:52.879 You've described it a bit, but so this is the this is George and England we're talking about, right? 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:53.759 1808. 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:58.159 So it's 1808, it's basically the Napoleonic Wars. 00:09:58.639 --> 00:09:58.879 Yeah. 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:08.639 England is under siege, more or less, during that time, I would say, all the way up till 1815 when things started calming down in Europe. 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:14.480 And is that one of the reasons why people had a free fall down here that England was just distracted on the continent? 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:19.200 And number two, was the English society replicated down here? 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:26.240 So was there nobility, were there different um levels in society, class differences, and they just replicated it here? 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:31.919 Or was it like a new world idea where people just started and anyone could become a governor? 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:36.480 And you mentioned the most powerful person, rich person, was he a a nobleman as well? 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.360 Uh no, I think it's more of the new world. 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:41.360 It's uh it is a bit of a free-for-all. 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:46.960 And a lot of these people are um taking every any opportunity that they can to make money. 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:59.840 And the two ways to make money uh is to one, to if you're a free settler, to receive a um a land grant and to start a farm and hopefully successful, because at this stage a lot of the farming was st still failing. 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:01.600 Um and it was. 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:03.360 It was only 20 years old. 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:06.960 Um the population wasn't huge. 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:21.279 And I I think that the way that the economy was controlled by the New South Wales Corps, they became known as the Rum Corps, probably inhibited the actual growth of the colony because it was um corruption from the top. 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:26.799 The corruption was just every every segment of society was completely corrupted. 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:30.240 Um and I think it was still it's a small colony, it's an outlier. 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:36.960 I'm not sure how much interest Britain at that time really would have had on they obviously didn't want this

colony to fail. 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:45.600 Um, but I don't think they it's not um as if they had the same concern vis-a-vis like America and um the 18th century, for example. 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:47.039 This is a tiny outpost. 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:49.840 It's the only colony on the Australian mainland. 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:56.320 Um there are people in Van Diemen's Land, but there's basically that's not even that hasn't even been declared a colony yet. 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:07.919 So it's just this little outpost um with a bunch of uh rowdy military types who've stitched up the yeah, the the black market in terms of everything. 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:13.360 When you look at a map these days, um it is uh in and around what we call now Sydney. 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:14.080 Correct. 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:14.320 Yeah. 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:18.720 So probably East, what we'd call the eastern suburbs around that part of Sydney. 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:31.360 As a penal colony, there were strict rules regarding if you abetted or aided the escape or were connected to an escape of a convict, you could face um significant sanction. 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:42.639 And because the real really the only way in and out, because you're not escaping into the hinterland, is via a boat, all of the merchants had to pay significant deposits. 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:50.159 I think the equivalent of per boat, a deposit of$85,000 if they wanted the boat to leave Sydney Harbour to go anywhere. 00:12:50.320 --> 00:13:01.840 Um and that deposit was only returned when it was when the boat returned and it was proved that no uh convict had used it to escape or um had been helped in in getting out of the colony. 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:12.320 What happened is one of MacArthur's boats, the Parramatta, someone, managed to sneak on board and get out of get out of get out of Sydney. 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:18.720 And on return, um Bly decided to turn the screws on MacArthur. 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.799 He um confiscated his boat, he summoned him to court, and MacArthur flatly refused. 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:26.799 So these guys had a standoff, basically. 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:53.679 The next step in terms of the escalation of this is that MacArthur um was arrested and imprisoned by Bly, and um he was supported, MacArthur was supported by a number of military officers, and Bly then he made a decision to frame this as an attempted mutiny and he called Johnson, the head of the Rum Corps or the New South Wales Corps. 00:13:53.919 --> 00:14:10.000 Um he he said he needed this man and his um the military that he's in command of to come to Government House to um like deal with the situation, to um crush the mutiny and and probably imprison those officers. 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:19.120 But uh Johnson decided, again, someone who was not a fan of Bly, he um he went and released MacArthur. 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:22.639 He got all of the Rum Corps together, we're talking maybe three

to four hundred men. 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:33.679 They marched with the full band playing um in a in parade style through the streets of Sydney to Government House and arrested Bly. 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:39.360 And they they basically said, We're we're we're taking over. 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:39.759 Yeah. 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:51.200 Um they Johnson became I suppose the quasi leader, the the governor um in situ, and basically undid all of the reforms that Bly had attempted to bring in. 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:55.120 So, in that sense, technically speaking, yeah, a military coup. 00:14:55.200 --> 00:15:03.360 So the governor has been arrested, detained, and and removed from power um by the military that is supposed to serve and protect him. 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.320 It seems to be a theme in Bly's life, right? 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:12.799 This is the second time almost the identical thing has happened to him that the people he was meant to command rebel against him and he doesn't get away with it. 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:13.120 Yeah. 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:22.159 He he's got this formal power, but what I take it is that there are very few people in New South Wales that are his sort of supporters or um very few. 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:33.919 He had a couple uh there were a couple in the judiciary, uh, but again, he'd he'd he'd gotten MacArthur offside, and that's yeah, the richest man in town, and then those with all the military power. 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:36.480 Not a not a smart political operator, Bly. 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:38.799 Um Maybe he's just not a nice guy. 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:39.840 I don't think he was. 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:43.120 There's another instance prior to the film he's not paid him off. 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:44.000 That's a movie. 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:45.039 You always watch the movie. 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:45.440 Yeah. 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:47.360 But let's talk communication then. 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.519 You can't just pick up the phone Westminster Abbey or anything, right? 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.200 So How would that be communicated? 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:54.480 Uh letters on other ships. 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:55.600 It would take six weeks. 00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:56.639 How long would that have been? 00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:57.440 Eight to twelve? 00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:58.320 No, longer. 00:15:58.799 --> 00:15:59.840 Remember, there was months. 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:01.600 There was no Suez Canal, nothing. 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:05.440 So you had to go all the way um around Africa at least. 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:05.840 Yeah. 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.360 Um would have taken a long time. 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.679 But again, you you mentioned the East India company, so I assume there was maybe some communication that way. 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:16.240 But I think through yeah, Cape Town and then up to England would have been a long time. 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:18.080 Well the turnaround

would be six months then, right? 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.320 That they need to get there and then orders to return. 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:21.440 Yeah, I would say so. 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:27.200 Do you reckon that they would have had in the UK I mean it wouldn't have been that long. 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:29.600 It would have been within a lifetime, right? 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.320 Of the American War for Independence. 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:33.039 Whatever. 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:34.879 Do you reckon they had that in mind? 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:38.480 Like when they overthrew Blyang? 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:46.080 No, but I just wonder like like the UK government, if in London, if they'd be a bit paralyzed because you don't want to overstep the mark, right? 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:51.919 Or like and then set something the equivalent of like the Boston Tea Party off or something like that. 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:52.399 Yeah. 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:53.440 I mean, I know it's different. 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:54.399 It's probably too small. 00:16:54.480 --> 00:17:00.080 Like it sounds like Yeah, I suppose the difference is that I don't think there are any free I don't think there are any private citizens who are involved in this. 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:06.880 It was just simply this military group wanting to re get their hands back in the in the in the trough, basically. 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:09.599 They wanted to start making money again. 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:17.119 I think the other thing here is um the colony of Australia at the time had a purpose, and that was a place to put all the convicts. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:18.000 That's right. 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.480 So from England's point of view, do they really care as long as they can keep filling it on with the bigger? 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.519 Yeah, we were not producing really anything for export. 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:27.920 They, you know, there was no wool big wool industry. 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.839 I did MacArthur became the biggest sort of um became that guy. 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:32.880 He became that guy. 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.799 Uh but at this stage it was still, you know, still small fry, I think. 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:37.119 Okay. 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:39.519 Did he become Governor MacArthur, is that right? 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:49.680 Um subsequent to Bly's arrest, the British couldn't quite figure out what to do, and no one really wanted to take responsibility and then, you know, try to rein in the um the the New South Wales Corps. 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:57.279 But eventually an interim governor, um uh Fravog was sent out uh and he arrived in, I think, about June. 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:05.839 So this rum rebellion took place on the 26th of January, 1808, and Favreau, he arrived um a few months later. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.319 Johnson and MacArthur were sent to um the UK on trial. 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:16.240 Bly were he went back to the UK and he became he was promoted and became an admiral. 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:20.160 Um MacArthur, he would the there was no sanction on him. 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:23.359 He just was not allowed to return to New South Wales until 1817. 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:28.880 So he had about he had to sit and cool his heels in the UK for you know six or seven years. 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:39.759 And Johnson was basically kicked out of the Navy, but he was permitted to return as a private citizen, and he had a substantial estate here from all of the nefarious stuff he was doing. 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.000 Um, it was such a just country. 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.079 Like anywhere else, they would have lost their heads, right? 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:52.079 Like in those days, trying to overthrow the guy, actively being successful in overthrowing government. 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:56.480 It's like, oh, okay, you're suspended from duties for a little while, but then you can live on. 00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:56.880 Yeah. 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:06.880 And I look the I mean it makes sense, obviously, looking at it, the way they solved the problem was they just recalled the New South Whale Corps and they they replaced them with a different regiment. 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:12.799 And Macquarie was sent and became the new governor of New South Wales. 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:17.680 So presumably MacArthur in Sydney is named after this chap, right? 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:18.160 Aaron Powell Yes. 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:30.720 So there's a lot of um yeah, a lot of names that are re recognizable, uh whether they be electorates or um other other sections of um yeah, it's a lot of sheep. 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:33.200 Yeah, he was a grazier and did wool. 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:34.160 Wool was his thing. 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.920 Well, since the World Cup's on, there is a football team called MacArthur Rams. 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:38.640 Yeah. 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:39.359 There you go. 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.960 Yeah, well, that's part of Sydney, and um yeah, that's exactly how that worked out. 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:43.599 Yeah. 00:19:43.839 --> 00:20:00.880 Uh and I think, yeah, if you look at the history of the New South Wales colony under Macquarie, that's when it sort of um yeah, established itself, but it was also Sydney's expansion, um, increasing numbers of sort of clashes with the uh local indigenous population, etc. 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:18.799 Um Macquarie is celebrated, but also I think he was probably celebrated for the first hundred and seventy years after um the establishment of the Sydney colony, but again, more recent um investigations into how he dealt with um and engaged with the local population. 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:23.039 The local indigenous population have kind of complicated that legacy somewhat. 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:28.000 So yeah, a lot of big a lot of big character, main character energy in this Rum Rebellion going on. 00:20:28.160 -->

00:20:31.920 These guys were Yeah, they were they were pitted against each other. 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:38.880 Bly, interesting character, um, picked the fight with the wrong people, basically, and had no friends to back him up. 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.759 So Yeah, because authority only goes so far, yeah. 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.640 If if and that this is what we learn on this podcast all the time. 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.599 Like you can't overthrow a government if you've got people backing you. 00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:57.039 No matter what titles you have, whatever armies you or regiments you think back you, if they don't actually do it when it matters, then it's all just nil and void. 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:57.839 And it's just a title. 00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:59.440 Yeah, what do they really care about? 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.559 Um Did Bly get another job once he got back to the Trevor Burrus. 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:05.440 He became an admiral, so yeah, he was he he served in the Navy. 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:07.119 He died in 1817, I think. 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:09.039 Yeah. 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:09.920 Okay. 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:11.119 Just keeps coming back. 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:12.400 Interesting period. 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.440 So that was the first uh decade of the 19th century. 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:16.000 Correct. 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:17.039 Rum Rebellion. 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:17.759 Rum Rebellion. 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:21.119 For everyone who started listening a little late, why was it called Rum Rebellion again? 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:22.160 Were they all on Rum? 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:23.759 No, it's an interesting one. 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:25.680 Um I think it was reframed. 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:39.119 They used the name Rum Rebellion to try to suggest that the reason these people um mounted this military coup was that they were depraved alcoholics. 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:43.759 And that reframing of this narrative came during the peak of the temperance movement. 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:48.880 So people were alcohol was seen as, you know, the devil's liquid. 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:57.680 And this was just one way of proving that this was something that you needed to abstain from because it would drive people to commit crazy acts of treason. 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:10.240 Um, but I don't know, I think we've held on to it because it Is rum was, you know, it was significant in terms of um the economy and yeah, it it it's an engaging it's an engaging handle for uh for a it's catchy. 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:10.799 Yeah, it's catchy. 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:12.000 It got minded catchy. 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.799 Um so we we put that in the in the reels to promote this podcast. 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:16.799 Rum and then did that actually happen? 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:17.440 It did. 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.079 New South Wales, as we call it nowadays, but the New South Wales was a lot different to what it was. 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:31.039 One last thing that I've written big letters here that I would like to add um it also the Rum Rebellion also spawned Australia's first ever political cartoon. 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:53.759 So there was a a picture of Bly or a cartoon of Bly um being dragged out from under the servants' beds in um Government House that was published in a public forum, not in the newspapers, it was also like the first art exhibition in Sydney was basically humiliating this guy and trying to depict him as a coward. 00:22:53.920 --> 00:23:01.119 So that was the narrative that was run with immediately after the yeah, after his overthrow. 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:03.359 I I I want to read a book about Bly. 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:04.880 I'm really fascinated now. 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:05.359 What a liar. 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:06.000 Interesting character. 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:07.599 There's other stuff too. 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:15.759 But he has this consistent, it's just consistently belligerent and he's consistently like getting people offside. 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:19.839 The more he fails, the more successfully becomes. 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.200 He would have grown up the most I mean, pretty brutal. 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.039 Brutal living circumstances. 00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:35.359 Yeah. 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:40.480 Well, like the only person that actually tried to defend him and prevent the overthrow. 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:50.000 There's actually a boy as well that plays one of the key roles on the on the mutiny as well, and that would have been been him, like 30, 40 years earlier or something like that. 00:23:50.799 --> 00:24:03.839 Well, apparently the only person that stood up for Bly and tried to prevent the overthrow from happening was his daughter, who met the New South Wales Corps at the gates of Government House with an umbrella and was like swinging it at them and saying, like, get out of here, what are you doing? 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:05.759 Well they pushed past. 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:09.599 So, like there were yeah, there was no there was no blood spilled, so bloodless coup. 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:13.359 Um, and then it just became an administrative nightmare for the for Britain. 00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:21.119 So I think they were very happy to recall the New South Wales Corps to have Macquarie in place and just like okay, yeah, just get on with it. 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:22.640 No more headaches, thank you. 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:36.480 Yeah, and just confirming all on the backs of indigenous people who would have called us home uh only a few decades earlier, displaced, driven off their land, and then there's white men fighting each other over that land, money and power already, just a few decades in. 00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:42.559 So it wasn't really a an a new paradise, new world sort of spirit anymore. 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:44.240 Because we haven't done that episode. 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:55.920

I want to do it one day, but it does remind me a fair bit of Christopher Columbus when he became governor of Hispaniola, and then he was the poses was overthrown as well because even the Spanish uh crown thought he went a bit overboard. 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:00.319 Yeah, the way he he behaved and and treated uh indigenous people as well. 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:01.279 That's it. 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:01.680 Thanks. 00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:04.160 Uh topic number one on our special. 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:08.000 Um again, we've got three topics today, all Australian topics. 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:13.920 Um many people in the world think there was never a rebellious soul in this country, but there have been, and we changed. 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:16.720 We are like very, very obedient. 00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:17.680 Oh, absolutely. 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.799 Very, very obedient. 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:24.000 Compared to Russia, France, South American countries. 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.920 Um But there's attempts, and that's what it's about today. 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:32.880 But you said officially that's the only military coup in our state. 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.640 Well, which call it one you want, coup d'etat, military coup, overthrow of a government. 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.079 1808 Rum Rebellion. 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:43.839 Official, you can you can say that there are others which were coups, but well, that's that's a topic for another podcast. 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:44.880 Excellent. 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:51.920 Now that brings us to a second guest here today, uh co-host James Bennett. 00:25:52.319 --> 00:26:00.799 James, you've you're in the middle of this, still in the 19th century, and I claim that your topic is probably the most known one, at least in Australia. 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:06.160 So if you ask anyone on the streets, especially of a certain generation, they've probably heard of today's topic. 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:09.200 However, most of uh Putchka's followers are now overseas. 00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:10.880 By the way, we're in over 70 countries. 00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:11.680 Can you believe it? 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:12.720 Pretty exciting. 00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.119 So we cracked that not a few weeks ago. 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:17.200 Um, so just give us a bit of context. 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:18.000 What's your topic? 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:19.279 Okay, guys and girls. 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:24.640 This is for all the people out there who haven't followed Australian history pretty closely. 00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:27.119 Um, and it's not something that I actually knew about at all. 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:30.640 But like Oliver says it, it probably is the most sort of, I guess, well-known. 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:31.759 What's renowned, yeah. 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.920 Particularly with the Eureka flag, which I will explain about in a moment. 00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:37.599 But basically, I'll set the scene. 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:45.519 So 1851, um, gold was discovered in Victoria, which is in the west, I believe. 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:46.720 Ballarat. 00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:50.400 So it's south of the continent, but in the South of the continent, okay. 00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:52.240 So yeah, west of Victoria. 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:54.559 I had to look this word up because I didn't understand it. 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:56.799 Apparently the gold was alluvial. 00:26:57.119 --> 00:26:58.559 Does anyone know what that means? 00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:00.799 Oliver, do you know what that means as the host? 00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:02.720 Extremely pure? 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:04.640 Yeah, who knows what it means. 00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.920 Doesn't that mean it's kind of sitting close to the surface and you can just dig it up? 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:08.960 Ah, well done. 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:11.759 That's why there's a lot of panning going on, it's floating around. 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:12.400 Yeah. 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:12.960 Exactly. 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:14.880 Alluvial means near the surface. 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:20.079 So basically alluvial means that it's very like easy to access. 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:25.599 So there's uh, I suppose not there's not a high barrier to entry into the bigger. 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:27.599 You don't have to freelance a deep mind. 00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:29.519 Freelancers can can get at it. 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:30.240 Absolutely. 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:32.000 Which is exactly what happens. 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:35.839 Um so this is about in 18, yeah, 1851. 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.440 So as a consequence, what happened was that they had they actually had a problem. 00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:45.680 I was reading about this, a lot of people just quit their jobs, even in Victoria, and just went up there to like chance their arm at getting it. 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:46.880 Get rich very quick, right? 00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:47.599 Yeah, get rich very quickly. 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:48.880 As long as you can work a shovel. 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:49.599 Pretty much. 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:53.039 As normally happens, a lot of people came to Australia. 00:27:53.119 --> 00:28:01.519 So you had a lot of Americans, Canadians, British, Irish, uh, a lot of Chinese came as well to to get the gold. 00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:09.119 Um and so, I mean, Australia was obviously still a very new colony at the moment, country, you know, it was before Federation. 00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:16.000 So you had a whole load of people go into a relatively small area very, very quickly. 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:20.079 So one of the consequences was that infrastructure really struggled. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:24.640 Okay, a lot of these guys were living in tents in shacks on these mines. 00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:28.000 And so the colonial authorities wanted to sort this out. 00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:30.559 They obviously wanted a cut of all of this gold.

00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:35.920 What the colonial authorities did was they issued what was called mining licenses. 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:47.920 So this was basically a mining license was basically saying, you know, in order to mine for gold, you have to pay us money to give us these, and we'll give you a mining license. 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:58.240 But the only difference is is that normally these licenses or licenses would be considered sort of like if you get gold, then you would give us a cut. 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:03.440 But the only difference is with these mining licenses, you had to pay for them, regardless of if you found them. 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:08.400 So you pay up front for the right to go and dig, as opposed to paying a commission on what you find. 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:09.519 Here's an analogy. 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:10.559 It's like a fishing license. 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.640 You have to pay for it no matter if you catch a fish or not. 00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:13.359 Pretty much. 00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:13.599 Yeah. 00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:15.839 Sounds like my way of fishing. 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:16.160 Yeah. 00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:16.640 Yeah. 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:18.000 That's how I fish as well. 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:18.400 Good. 00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:18.880 It's the best. 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:20.319 I don't even get a license. 00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.480 But anyway, well, I don't catch anything, so it doesn't matter. 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:23.599 Let's take that out. 00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:24.240 Thank you. 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:25.359 Authorities are watching. 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:27.119 Victoria Police take note. 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:31.359 The mining license was um imposed. 00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.839 This was really unpopular amongst everybody. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:35.440 It was kind of like a poll tax. 00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:39.359 Um, so a lot of these guys weren't very happy about it. 00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:43.599 And apparently the colonial authorities were not very nice about enforcing it. 00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:46.480 So there was a governor called Charles Hotham. 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.680 Um he came in in about 1954. 00:29:49.920 --> 00:30:01.680 And like I think William Bly, he seemed to have like a sort of a unique combination of uh lack of people skills, bit of a dictator, not very good, basically. 00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:04.240 He was basically incompetent and failed upwards. 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:09.839 Now, leading up to that, there were a few um, I guess, miscarriages of justice. 00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:18.160 There was a bloke called James Scobie, who was a Scottish miner, and he was killed by a publican called Bentley. 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:20.960 Um who the Bentley Hotel up there. 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:27.599 Anyway, went to trial, Bentley got off, and this caused like a massive ruction, um, a fair amount of trouble. 00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:31.759 And there was this hotel was burnt down um as a consequence. 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:34.880 I guess a febrile atmosphere, you would call it. 00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:35.920 Weird. 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:47.839 Um, and like one of the things that struck me when I was reading it was that a lot of these miners that came across, they were saying that they were quite um politically engaged. 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.839 You know, they weren't just like forced labour. 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.759 These were guys that had seen an opportunity and had came over. 00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:09.119 They reckon there was a lot of um, I suppose, influence from sort of like particularly from the Irish miners because they had come over from colonial Ireland, they weren't too keen, obviously, on the British colonial authorities. 00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:19.119 Yeah, and then simultaneously have people from the US, so they they have free-spirited people, they they used to not having a They said about the US and like the Republican movement and stuff like that as well. 00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:19.440 Yeah. 00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:22.960 How does this work timing-wise compared to the California gold rush? 00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:27.839 Like have you got people who are experienced in that sense coming from America to Australia? 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:28.240 I don't know. 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.359 When was the gold game? 00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:30.319 There was a gold rush. 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:30.640 Yeah. 00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:32.160 Um we looked that up. 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:33.759 We would drop the number on the screen. 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:35.359 We have a YouTube channel. 00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:38.480 The miners weren't happy about this. 00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.279 They felt there had been a miscarriage of justice, the mining licenses came into it. 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.480 So they called what was called the Ballarat Reform League. 00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:48.319 So it's sort of like organized labor. 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:48.960 Okay. 00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:55.839 So anyway, the Eureka flag is Does anyone know, able to describe the Eureka flag? 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:56.960 Dave, you seem to know a bit. 00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:57.920 It's blue. 00:31:58.160 --> 00:31:58.559 Blue. 00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:00.000 It's got a white cross on it. 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:00.480 Yeah. 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:00.880 Alright. 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.240 It's got like five stars on it. 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:02.960 Five stars. 00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:04.880 Is that meant to resemble the Southern Cross in a way? 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:05.359 Yes. 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:07.119 That's the Southern Cross constellation. 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:16.000 In a more kind of geometric arrangement rather than the true sense of the one of the things I read about it is it doesn't have the British flag on there. 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:16.960 Like that was taken out. 00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:18.240 Doesn't have the Union

Jack. 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.880 But um I I thought uh when I came here, because I saw it a lot. 00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:25.839 I don't think it's as prominent anymore as it used to be a few decades ago. 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:30.079 But I thought it had a Scottish connection just because of the colours, the blue and the white. 00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:40.559 Um but you talked about Irish minors and it doesn't seem to have like any type of ethnic like ethnic origin in terms of like it came from a particular place. 00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:40.960 Yeah. 00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.839 Like obviously what we were talking about earlier, like the Eureka moment. 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:48.160 Does anyone want to talk tell me where the Eureka moment came from? 00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:49.920 I know the word eureka. 00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.880 It's like what you're meant to yell out when you find something you've been looking for. 00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:53.279 Yeah. 00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:54.000 It's a good word. 00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:57.200 I actually couldn't find anything as to why it's called the Eureka flag. 00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:58.799 Does anyone else know? 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:00.799 Not sure why it is. 00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:06.799 Is it the one it was hoisted above the the barricades at this particular incident? 00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:11.839 Did it take the name from that particular incident? 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:13.359 Is that where the flag got its name? 00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:14.000 I don't know. 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:14.960 That's the question I'm asking. 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:19.279 Aaron Ross Powell So the flag was created by what was called the Ballarat Reform League. 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:29.119 So this was before like the Trevor Burrus So it was the Ballarat Reform League flag, which then took on the significance as the Eureka flag after this incident. 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:34.960 Which explains why it's still very prominent on Australian building sites because unions are still using that very flag. 00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:42.160 But I don't think I don't think it was it wasn't called the Eureka flag when it was probably something that's sort of come about from that. 00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:49.519 What happened after this was that the miners built what was called a stockade, which is why it's called a Eureka stockade. 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:52.720 My reading of it, it was kind of almost like a bit of a shack. 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:54.559 So it was like a fortification. 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.839 So like a um barricade. 00:33:58.160 --> 00:33:59.039 Yeah, a barricade. 00:33:59.119 --> 00:33:59.359 Yeah. 00:33:59.680 --> 00:33:59.839 Okay. 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:04.160 Was it intended to be like a defensive structure or was it just like a clubhouse? 00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:05.519 I think it was like a meeting place. 00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:05.759 Yeah. 00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.279 From what I can gather. 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.920 The colonial authorities decided that this wasn't gonna um fly. 00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:22.480 So they attacked in the morning of um let me see, it was the 3rd of December 1854. 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:24.239 So they attacked before dawn. 00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:27.840 They reckon they did this because they wanted the miners to not be prepared. 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:31.199 Apparently the miners weren't very well uh armed. 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:32.880 Twenty-two miners were killed. 00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:35.599 Four soldiers were killed. 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:36.639 Why not? 00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:43.599 What are the um probably mythologies about it is that there was this massive battle, this massive fight. 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.639 Um from what I've read, it took about 15 minutes. 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:47.599 Yeah. 00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:49.360 So they didn't put up much of a fight. 00:34:49.599 --> 00:35:00.239 And 170 years later, we're still talking about which probably gives us all some context of Australia being a very conservative Pacific country. 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:00.960 Passive. 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:01.760 Passive, yeah. 00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:05.840 So there's relatively small events, uh quite significant in the history of Australia. 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:06.320 Yeah. 00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:06.559 Yeah. 00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:08.000 Which is a good thing, yeah. 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:14.800 For context, it's a good thing that we don't have much more bloodshed um in in those early days. 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:18.719 But just in summary, it's all about taxes in the end, right? 00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:19.679 That's what it sounds like. 00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:21.360 So there's a gold rush. 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:21.679 Yep. 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:26.400 And again, in in David's episode, we talked about it's still a very colonial structure. 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:32.800 Um, it's it's you know, you got a governor as well, so that's representing the the the king at the time here. 00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:33.360 Yeah. 00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:36.159 Um but the people here don't want to borrow it. 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:41.599 They're like, no, we want to live our own way the way we think because we're not in England and that's probably why we left. 00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:49.119 Well, no, so in actual fact, one of the things I read was that this wasn't like a war of like independence. 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:56.559 Like the miners, the miners weren't sort of thinking that they wanted to separate from like the UK or whatever. 00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:59.039 It was more like you say, it was more like a rebellion. 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.039 Like a mini Boston Tea Party, right? 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:01.599 Kind of. 00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:03.840 Very, very, very miniature. 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:04.639 Yeah, okay. 00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:13.119 So um, but this wasn't a uh I guess a rebellion in the way that you may like in terms

of like a coup or anything like that. 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:17.599 It was more like you say, it was like things to do like workers' rights, it was lots to do with this mining license. 00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:20.000 Sort of like government overreach as well. 00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:20.480 Yeah. 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:30.239 Um but one of the interesting things is that the miners were caught, the miners that were arrested that didn't die were charged with high treason. 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:35.039 Um subsequent trials, they were all acquitted by jury. 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:47.679 So there was a lot of public support for the miners, and there was also um, I guess, a lot of concern about the overreach of the authorities at that time. 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:49.519 Which again blows my mind. 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:52.159 It's so reflective of what you just what you just said, right? 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:56.400 So I mean simultaneously we've got indigenous rights trampled, right? 00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:01.440 Like there's massacres happening, human rights don't play a role, even though they're also subjects of the crown. 00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:21.679 Um but then Dave, you and I we did an episode on the Paris Commune, France, middle of Europe, 20 odd years later, and thousands of people just get slaughtered by the authorities, no trials, no questions asked, and they build a church on top, problems solve. 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:25.599 Here we are on the other side of the world, in in the wilderness, really. 00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:27.360 Like we're talking effectively. 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:31.760 You know, there would have been a few houses, it it's nothing like we think of Australia today. 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:35.039 I don't know what the population was, a few thousand people, I would say, in Belarus. 00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:36.320 It wouldn't have been much. 00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:43.280 And and very temporary, because in Australia we do have those deserted mining towns that are now just a couple of ruins in the bush and they're left. 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:52.639 But then still you have that sense of English judicial system and justice, and they actually bothered putting a jury together. 00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:56.559 And everywhere else they would have just been hung and that's it. 00:37:56.960 --> 00:38:00.800 Well, they were charged with high treason, which was uh It's a political thing, right? 00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:01.599 Yeah, sure. 00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:04.639 But like capital punishment would have followed had they been found guilty. 00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:05.920 Oh, okay, they would have been hanged, yeah. 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:06.800 Yeah, they would have been hanged. 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:07.360 Yeah, okay. 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:18.159 An interesting thing that in 1855 was that the mining licenses were revoked and a more sort of equitable uh system was put in place. 00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:30.800 Also, one of the guys that was part of, I suppose, the rebellion was a guy called uh Peter Leyler, who was a miner from uh Ireland that had come over here. 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:38.159 He eventually became, I think he became yeah, the speaker of the Victorian Assembly in later life. 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:40.480 He also lost an arm as well. 00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:42.079 He had an arm amputated. 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.880 We had an arm story in the Mexican episode, remember? 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:45.599 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:46.719 What happened to it? 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.119 He lost it, founded, and rolled back to hospital with it? 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:52.159 And that is a monument for the arm. 00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:55.599 It wasn't stitched back on, it didn't grow back. 00:38:56.559 --> 00:38:57.360 No, I don't think Peter still. 00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:58.480 He didn't want to leave it on the arm. 00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:00.239 Only only on Putcast. 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:02.880 Um so this is 1850s. 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:07.440 This was 1855 that the uh licenses were revoked, yeah. 00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:09.519 A more equitable system was put in place. 00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:24.320 One of the things is that people talk about, well, because of this rebellion, because of like the things to do with like workers' rights and stuff like that, was that although the miners lost like, I suppose, the battle in quotation marks, yeah. 00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:26.800 Um they won like the wider war. 00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:32.400 The moral victory was theirs because it brought in reforms um afterwards. 00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:35.599 Sets a precedent for the way that Australia grew up, right? 00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:36.320 Absolutely. 00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:38.400 Let's talk about myth building here. 00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.320 You're a history teacher, David. 00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:57.280 So this could have just been forgotten, never mentioned again, and it really would not even be a footnote in Australian history if there I think would have been bigger, more violent events following like the War of Independence in America, you know, revolutions overthrow, parliament houses burned down. 00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:58.719 None of this ever happened in Australia. 00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:00.079 Again, a very good thing. 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:12.239 Um, do you think what that this then led to this becoming such an iconic moment in history that a flag is still flown on every building site these days that that dates back to that moment in history? 00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:18.960 Not to mention uh most school kids in Victoria would still probably visit Ballarat, Sovereign Hill. 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:19.679 Sovereign Hill. 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:20.000 Yeah. 00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:23.440 And if you learn about the intricacies of the Eure Eureka stockade. 00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:25.440 It's still part of the primary school curriculum. 00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:31.519 I think they

touch on it briefly in maybe not in year nine anymore, but it it it's still embedded. 00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:32.400 Yeah, it's still embedded. 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:44.639 But I also think that you know, like what you were saying is that because Australia back then was so small, and because it was probably so sort of like I don't know, like would parochial be the right word? 00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:46.000 That's a pretty good word for it. 00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:52.960 Yeah, like things which would seem pretty small take on like an outsized significance. 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.159 Because in that society back then it was a big deal. 00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:57.199 It would have been, yeah. 00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:04.159 You know, you had basically a load of convicts, you had a load of prison officers that had come over, then you had all these free miners that had come over. 00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:09.440 Like you'd have had a lot of sort of, I guess, um, interesting individuals. 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.000 But and it was just a small microcosm. 00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:33.039 David, you just told us it's still in the curriculum, students living in Victoria in the south of Australia still visit a an outdoor museum called Sovereign Hill, uh, in the town of Bellaret, which is where the Eureka stockade took place um all those years ago, which again shows us that it was a significant event by Australian standards. 00:41:33.679 --> 00:41:35.119 Sovereign Hill. 00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:41.599 It's traced back to that very moment that Australia became a nation because nation building is so important for Australia. 00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:50.239 And Federation in 1901 wasn't that, you know, um, that trigger moment, like in other countries where you now have a national holiday based on that. 00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:51.920 Australia didn't really have that. 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:57.199 So is that why it was myth building, or does it deserve the place in history that it has? 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:10.320 I think when there's the first significant act of political resistance, um those things are usually, irrespective of how big they are, you know, in a country, sometimes they can take on uh a significance. 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:11.679 And again, we've had nothing since. 00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:16.559 Like you said, we were talking about how we are um fundamentally a very obedient country. 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:24.079 Uh so this as yeah, a challenge of government power, like you were saying, James, government overreach, workers' rights. 00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:25.760 I think there's a confluence of things here. 00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:34.239 I remember as a primary school kid in the 1980s, almost this kind of martyrdom of these miners who suffered at the hands of the government. 00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:36.719 Um they who knows what they were actually like. 00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:43.039 They might have just been drunks who are caught unawares, sleeping in and um butchered by the government, but we don't know. 00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:49.840 But yes, I mean at Sovereign Hill, they have a s a light show spectacular and a reenactment of the stockade. 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:53.760 It's one of the big events that you can go and um buy additional tickets to. 00:42:53.920 --> 00:43:09.760 So it still has the imagination of I don't know if we would say it's in the collective Australian imagination, but it's just it's definitely something that the majority of children who go to primary school um in Australia would be able to recognise and point out about Australian history. 00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:14.960 Trevor Burrus, but but it's also like a larger thing about like the stories that nations tell themselves, right? 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:15.440 Yeah. 00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:15.840 You know. 00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:20.480 And it is like a almost like a finding like a f a finding story. 00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.599 Political consciousness, maybe something like that. 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:24.159 Sure. 00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:24.800 Yeah. 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:27.119 Australia's growing up at this stage. 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:31.199 It's it's sort of an adolescent nation, I guess, is probably the way to describe it. 00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:36.800 And uh m mum and dad England is uh is being more frequently rebelled against. 00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:39.840 And it was uh it was multicultural already, as we've mentioned. 00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:40.960 So it was people from all over the world. 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:43.920 Yeah, correct. 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.639 And then it was rained back in uh fifty years, sixty years ago. 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:56.719 But it's also it's also interesting, like in terms of like why this particular story they decided to amplify it. 00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.599 Because yes, it is awakening of like your political. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.440 Conscience or whatever. 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:09.199 But you could also see how governments or historians may be asked to play it down a little bit more in some respects. 00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:19.119 Because you know, it does show I mean like kind of like if you like if you start a rebellion or whatever, then reforms can come in after. 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:28.400 It's just because I mean I don't think that something like this could have been there was there was probably so many things like this that had happened, but they never made it into the history books. 00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:29.360 So why this particular? 00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:30.800 Yeah. 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:32.239 Should I I don't know. 00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.719 I I I think it's about the sense of fairness, which is part of the the Australian psyche. 00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:42.559 So Ballarat might not have been at this time, but was soon to be the richest city in the world. 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:42.960 Okay. 00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:46.639 Um so the distribution of wealth extremely

unequal. 00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:54.239 Um and this is about people, I guess, getting a getting a fair go on getting their fair share, which is definitely part of uh the way Australians see themselves. 00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:56.480 Yeah, the gold rush, the big equalizer, right? 00:44:56.559 --> 00:45:10.639 So getting away from that old hierarchical society in Europe and starting fresh here, and your title name didn't matter, but picking up gold from the streets basically on a creek uh could change your life for good, um, with all the bad stuff it came with. 00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:12.400 Now, here we are on Putschcast. 00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:21.199 Uh, this is a special episode you might remember, and uh, we're talking about Australia and moments of rebellion and even the coup that we've learned about today. 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.599 First of all, it's the Rum Rebellion in 1808. 00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:28.320 Uh great name, interesting story, and the only documented coup in Australian history. 00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:35.039 James, you just told us about the Eureka stockade, which is still known in the Australian psyche and taught in schools, as you told us, Dave. 00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:39.280 The next one, Dave Sloan, I've never heard about, I have to be honest. 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:41.920 Um, it has something to do with sheep or a lamb. 00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:45.679 And we've moved on almost 10 years, so we're in the 1860s now. 00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:46.480 What is your topic? 00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:48.239 Look, we are still in the gold rush. 00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.639 Uh, we're talking about the lambing flat riots. 00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:53.360 It doesn't actually have anything to do with a lamb or a sheep. 00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:56.239 That's just the uh the name that goes with this particular place. 00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:01.119 Uh, but this is really adjacent to what we just heard uh uh about the Eureka stockade. 00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:05.119 Um so just to set the scene a little bit, definitely gold rush times. 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:09.840 Now, the gold rush in Australia uh I think kind of roughly kicked off in about 1850. 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:13.039 And it started in a lot of different places at once. 00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:28.960 Uh, this concept of alluvial gold, which we just talked about, which is gold that's kind of close to the surface of the earth and relatively easy to access with a pick and a shovel or like with a pan at a creek, uh, you can find yourself a nugget and uh and go home a wealthier person. 00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:33.599 Um that concept in Australia uh created the gold rush. 00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:36.880 Um, masses of immigration um all at once. 00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:41.119 I think the geography of Australia's got something to play here as well. 00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:49.679 Um I think at the time that we were talking about the Rum Rebellion, basically the whole population of Australia is isolated to the uh to

the east coast. 00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:58.400 Um there's a thing called the dividing range, uh, which is you know big lumpy mountains that are kind of hard to cross that was basically keeping the population coastal. 00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:08.960 And uh in the early 1800s, I think it was uh somewhere about 1817, uh people first crossed the dividing range and effectively opened up the whole of the inside of Australia. 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:14.719 So not many people, huge expanse of land, and there's bits of gold lying around. 00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:19.119 Uh so if you can find one and pick it up, you know, you're you're a wealthy person. 00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:26.000 That's the dynamic um that is causing the gold rush and is causing this place to explode. 00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:42.719 So uh all of a sudden, um, there's this wealth dynamic, um, there's I guess a loss of control as well, because the government um or the um uh yeah, the the government that's in place really isn't big enough or broad enough to be able to keep all these things uh under control. 00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.519 So there's a lot of chaos going on around the place. 00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:52.239 Um a little bit about uh Australia at this point in time. 00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:54.719 Uh I think we I mentioned this just a moment ago. 00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:56.639 It's got this adolescence about it. 00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:00.079 So it's sort of growing out of its English parentage. 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:08.159 Um and that kind of psychology um uh is really sort of starting to play out in the way that people are behaving. 00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:13.440 If you look at the immigration question, we've got tens of thousands of people coming into the country. 00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:19.119 They're coming from primarily Europe and America, but there's also heaps of Chinese people coming in. 00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:22.400 Now that's supported by the English government at this time. 00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:27.039 Running parallel, uh the opium wars have just concluded. 00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:31.280 Uh there are agreements and treaties between the English government and the Chinese. 00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:35.920 Um, Hong Kong's been handed over, Kowloon has been handed to the English as well. 00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:44.480 Um, and in compensation, uh, the English are basically supporting uh and encouraging distribution of Chinese people into British colonies. 00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:50.079 Um now that sounds great, but the people in Australia are like, hang on a second, why are you sending them all here? 00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:56.000 Um we want this wealth for ourselves, and that's creating a bit of resentment and um uh I guess part of the challenge. 00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:57.119 All these things are going on. 00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:00.000 This place called Lambing Flat is in the middle of New South Wales. 00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:02.719 There's nothing there except alluvial gold. 00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:03.599 Um Lambing Flat. 00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:06.239 Can you give us a modern day geographic anchor point? 00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:09.519 Yeah, so Lambing Flat is not a place. 00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:11.920 You won't find it on a map now. 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:16.159 Um it was basically the name of a paddock where uh where this mining was going on. 00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:17.440 Very Australian, by the way. 00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:19.920 Historic event named after a paddock. 00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:20.480 Yeah, exactly. 00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:21.599 Named after a nice paddock. 00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:22.559 I'm sure it was a nice place. 00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:25.760 Um today there is a town called Young just there. 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:31.360 Um so it's in kind of uh central southeast New South Wales. 00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:39.360 Um if you looked at a map and saw Australia's capital, which is Canberra, uh it's probably about 150 kilometers northwest of there. 00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:39.760 Okay. 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.559 So it it's a it's middle of nowhere ish, right? 00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:42.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:46.639 Um and it it's generally speaking, it's a nice place. 00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:51.440 Um uh I think a lot of farming and orcharding and all that sort of stuff still goes on there today. 00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.599 There is no gold mining going on there today. 00:49:53.760 --> 00:50:02.800 So in in fact, even though the gold rush uh very much existed and there were people out there digging up like crazy, um, there aren't significant amounts of gold. 00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:05.119 Uh so you know, it it turned out to be folly. 00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:11.519 One of the things that's going on here though, we've got tens of thousands of people who are out in Australia trying to find gold. 00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:13.519 There's a whole heap of Chinese people. 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:20.079 Um, and there's a pretty interesting cultural dynamic that's going on where we've got Australians and Europeans that are pretty happy-go-lucky. 00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:24.480 They're disorganized, they're probably drunk most of the time, just going for broke, right? 00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:32.159 They're digging holes, they're impulsive, um, probably um uh impatient, I guess, in the way that they go about it. 00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:38.719 Then you've got Chinese miners who are organized, methodical, and really bring the industry, I guess, with them. 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:40.400 Well, they work very hard. 00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:42.400 The Chinese. 00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:43.360 Uh yes. 00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:43.840 Yeah, yeah. 00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.320 So they're like professional miners. 00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:48.400 Uh it i yes. 00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:53.119 Um there's uh there are Chinese immigrants who are basically paid miners. 00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:53.599 Okay. 00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:57.760 And there are Chinese

immigrants who are mining of their own accord. 00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:09.920 The ones who are paid miners uh are working for relatively cheap wages and they're happy to do that because they're more frugal than their Australian or European counterparts, and that's another sort of source of resentment. 00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:15.199 Um, but uh being organized themselves to go about this mining, um, it's really effective. 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:16.880 Um they don't give up easily. 00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:24.159 They work hard, they work long hours, and funnily enough, they're more successful than their Australian and European counterparts. 00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:26.079 And this makes people cranky, right? 00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:37.599 So and at the start of 1861, so this is in summer of 1861, things start to get a bit sort of disgruntled, I guess, um, because the Europeans are getting upset with the Chinese. 00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:39.360 The Chinese are more successful. 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:51.840 Um and at the same time, in uh the New South Wales Parliament, uh they're attempting to pass an act to exclude Chinese immigrants from Australia, or at least sort of control Chinese immigration. 00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:52.159 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:51:52.320 --> 00:52:04.320 Just for historical or global context, this is the year the American Civil War started, which was all about race and the discriminating against people based on their ethnic origin. 00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:07.599 So that might have influenced the way of thinking at least. 00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:07.920 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:09.440 When they had the gold rush in California. 00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:11.119 They had all the Chinese go over there. 00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:11.519 They did. 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:14.639 And they excluded they were excluded from the states as well, weren't they? 00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:16.880 I think there was a lot of issues around that. 00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:17.199 Yeah. 00:52:17.599 --> 00:52:20.880 And from what I understand, it it's that similar sort of dynamic, right? 00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:25.920 Um, where you know people kind of organized and working hard were resented because of their effectiveness. 00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:44.000 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So the New South Wales Parliament uh is sort of at the nexus of the uh the English encouraging Chinese migration into Australia and the Australian population kind of resenting the presence of uh Chinese gold miners because you know they're um they're taking our wealth. 00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:47.360 Um and they're attempting to pass this bill. 00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:50.000 Um what happens in the middle of 1861? 00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:52.800 Um, A, that bill fails. 00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:56.400 Um it does come back again later, but it fails at that point in time. 00:52:56.559 --> 00:53:04.559 Um and in this place called Lambing Flat, you've got about 3,000 sort of European and Australian miners, you've got about 2,000 Chinese miners. 00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:06.159 So there's a lot of people. 00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:12.159 Um similar to how you described Ballarat a little earlier, uh, there's not a lot of infrastructure here, right? 00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:18.480 People are living in tents, uh, they're like the the gold minings are um are fairly unsophisticated. 00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:22.559 They're just digging as deep as a human can with a shovel and then moving on to the next spot. 00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:24.639 So it's that sort of stuff going on. 00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:32.480 Um they get themselves organized uh and they choose to try and drive the Chinese off the gold fields, right? 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:42.880 Um so there is a major riot that uh I guess is the culmination of a fair bit of angst that builds up over time, and 2,000 Chinese people get driven out. 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:45.519 It's fairly non-bloody, right? 00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:47.199 No one dies at this point in time. 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:47.599 Okay. 00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:52.960 It's brutal, um, and I guess probably fairly thuggish, but non-bloody. 00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:56.800 Um there is a there is a banner, there's a flag that still exists. 00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:07.599 It's uh kept in a museum, and I'll probably find an image for it so that we can stick it up on on YouTube, but it's uh it basically says roll up at the top and it says no Chinese in in huge letters. 00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:21.440 Um there are some sympathizers, so there's um uh there's a family who keep a farm not too far far away, and they kind of shelter and accommodate thousands of Chinese people for a number of days and uh and sort of protect them. 00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:34.880 Um there are journalists who uh are basically risking their lives to tell this story uh as it is and uh getting all sorts of backlash from uh from the uh the local organized miners. 00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:37.360 But this thing kind of boils on for a couple of days. 00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:52.000 The Chinese get pushed off the land, uh police do turn up, and where the real violence happens and where the one person who dies in this whole episode gets killed is when police engage with uh the Australian and European miners that actually instigated the whole thing. 00:54:52.239 --> 00:55:01.760 Eventually, there are a couple of hundred soldiers that are brought to the area and they stay there for a period of 12 months to calm everything down and get it back under control. 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:18.880 So this event, you know, it's not massive, um, but in the scheme of things, it's pretty significant because it really is about uh it really is about racism and it's about uh immigration and you know racial acceptance in uh in this new country of Australia. 00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:37.920 Um what does happen is the New South Wales government does pass legislation, um, and there's a thing called, let me just check my notes, uh the

Chinese Immigrants Regulation and Restriction Act, which is a precursor really uh to the White Australia policy, which takes effect in 1901. 00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:38.320 Okay. 00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:49.599 Um so this as a as a little example basically uh sets the scene for institutionalization um of anti-immigration in Australia. 00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:52.159 So it's a significant, a really important event. 00:55:52.320 --> 00:56:13.119 And if you think about the effect of the White Australia policy, which more or less precluded or attempted to preclude anyone that wasn't from Europe uh from immigrating to Australia from 1901 until you know, like the mid-1950s, um, this is uh having a substantial effect on the way that Australia grew up and the way that we um uh you know the way that we've developed. 00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:15.519 So pretty interesting little story. 00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:18.400 Aaron Powell So the Lambing Flat Riots. 00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:22.079 That's and it's about ethnic cleansing, isn't it? 00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:24.400 That really is a form of ethnic cleansing. 00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:25.599 It is, it is. 00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:32.159 I mean, it's not uh that that term for me has sort of connotations of genocide and it's not that's what happened to indigenous people. 00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:36.400 But it's uh it's a complete um lack of acceptance, right? 00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:42.239 We don't we don't want you here, is the statement that's after inviting them to do all the dirty work and then when they're actually successful. 00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:43.119 Yeah, exactly. 00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:48.880 Um But I mean, you at the time, Europeans weren't didn't all see eye to eye either. 00:56:49.039 --> 00:56:53.840 Like even when you look at the Irish and the English, and back then the division was usually on religion, right? 00:56:53.920 --> 00:57:00.800 So Catholic versus Protestant was a huge um dividing line in in in the colony at the time. 00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:06.079 Um did they unite against the common enemy that were the Chinese? 00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:08.880 Yeah, that's that's the way I take it, yeah, absolutely. 00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:18.320 So the you know, the the 3,000 Australian and Europeans uh that were there that um uh that basically drove the the Chinese out um got organized around this cause. 00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:20.880 Do you know what happened to the Chinese after? 00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:23.519 Uh they dispersed. 00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:26.000 They didn't necessarily go back to China, right? 00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:26.239 No. 00:57:26.559 --> 00:57:32.239 Um so um they probably moved on to other gold fields or went uh went elsewhere in the country. 00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:43.280 Uh absolutely uh there were a lot of Chinese in many, many places around Australia at this time, um uh all doing the same thing basically. 00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:44.719 It was alluvial gold mining. 00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:45.760 They

were really good at it. 00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:48.719 Um and uh they were heavily engaged. 00:57:48.800 --> 00:58:11.840 So the other population that many people don't know about is the Afghanis as well that were here in the in the 19th century as part of trekking, and hence all the camels in Australia that were brought in because of their resilience and their you know, they'd the the barren land that is the outback uh you know, there's some resemblance to Afghanistan and uh very arid landscapes, and they also were either forced to assimilate or depart again later on. 00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:16.000 Um that was the first, like because I was reading about that the other day. 00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:19.679 That was one of the first terrorist attacks in Australia, wasn't it? 00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.719 And the Afghanis, those two Afghani camel herders or whatever they were, attacked. 00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:27.920 That's like one of the first recorded attacks from uh Afghanis. 00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:29.679 Uh of this particular story. 00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:43.760 It's uh you know, it's the it's the gold rush and this um uh little uh little um racist incident that really set the scene for the way that Australia thinks about immigration and that um that sort of thinking stayed in place for a hundred years to come. 00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:48.239 Yeah, and interesting again, uh James, your event was uh never forgotten, it's still celebrated. 00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:56.159 Those two that you talked about pretty much forgotten, and it takes uh fantastic podcasts like Putschcast to bring it back to life and to discuss. 00:58:56.320 --> 00:59:05.679 I think that's that's um it's a statement on its own that we are we're very selective with our collective memory when it comes to Australian history. 00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:06.000 Yeah. 00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:09.760 Um and this is again a very strong 19th century focus. 00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:23.519 Uh you might be surprised, but there were events in the 20th century as well that are relevant to Putschcast, um, where some lawyers would still have a picnic today to figure out what actually happened, was it legal, was it not legal? 00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:26.960 And there's one very prominent one, David, that we you are very passionate about. 00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:29.519 And maybe a future episode we'll deal with just that. 00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:30.000 Tell us. 00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:30.800 I'd love to. 00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:41.360 So the 11th of November 1975 is a date that a number of Australians um will know, and it's also probably one of the most politically charged in our nation's history as well. 00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:50.000 Um, I uh sometimes drink at a pub in Broadmeadows near my school, which um has a founding stone laid in it. 00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:57.920 And funnily enough, the name of the person who opened that pub was the Honorable Goff Whitlam, and he did it on the 10th of November. 00:59:58.079 -->

01:00:04.400 So his last official act as the Prime Minister of Australia was opening the Broadmeadows Sporting Club. 01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:16.480 And so we often have a beer there and um, you know, consider how I suppose disappointing that might have been for him as like the the final the final act of his premiership. 01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:25.519 But yes, there's a lot, and especially now that cabinet papers and other information and FOI requests um have been put in and things have been released. 01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:34.000 There's more information that suggests there was collusion, um, not just between um Malcolm Fraser and the Governor General, other forces as well. 01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:35.199 So it's a lot to look into. 01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:48.400 Yeah, Defense of the Nation is again, we've learned about Governor Bly, you know, that long ago, 200 years ago, um, who was representing the monarchy here in Australia, and we still have that in place today. 01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:51.039 So the political system has not changed that much. 01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:56.400 We still have governors, but the power they hold is very different to the Bly days. 01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:58.079 Yeah, that's right. 01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:05.519 Um, I suppose the Governor General, the Governor General is it a it's a titular role, um uh ceremonial almost. 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:16.400 But uh again, if you read the fine print, they do have we are a constitutional monarchy and they are the king's or queen's representatives, so they do wield, they can wield significant power. 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:19.039 As they did in 75, which is the whole controversy, right? 01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:19.519 That's it. 01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:22.079 Little teaser took Goth Whitlam 1975. 01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:23.760 Uh hopefully this year, David? 01:01:23.920 --> 01:01:24.880 You're making commitment? 01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:26.079 We're gonna talk about it? 01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:27.039 Let's do it. 01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:27.679 All right. 01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:31.039 So that's 2026, just for the record, not 27. 01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:35.840 That's a commitment, David, this year, not for the big anniversary in 35. 01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:36.960 Correct. 01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:39.679 We probably should have gone last year, but oh well, that's fine. 01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:42.800 And um, again, you've seen a wonderful Pudgecast shirt today. 01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:44.559 Um, David, great hat, by the way. 01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:45.360 Wearing that. 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:46.320 Excellent. 01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:51.039 Um, and to find out more about our podcast, uh, visit pushcast.com. 01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:55.599 If you've got any feedback suggestions to putcast at gmail.com, send us an email. 01:01:55.840 --> 01:02:03.280 Please follow us to tell your friends uh about us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. 01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:05.760 Um thanks and keep putting.

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